Marlene Stavros discusses her career as a production worker, skilled trades tool repair person and UAW member at the Fisher Body plant in Lansing, MI Cheryl McQuaid: Today is April 27th, 2006. It’s approximately 9:25 a.m. and we’re in the UAW Local 602 Conference Room. First we’ll introduce the team. Doug Rademacher: Doug Rademacher. John Fedewa: John Fedewa. Jerri Smith: Jerri Smith. Cheryl McQuaid: And I’m Cheryl McQuaid. Um, today we’re interviewing Marlene Stavros. [0:23] Is [sniffing] that correct? Marlene Stavros: Yes, it is. [coughing] Cheryl McQuaid: [0:26] Marlene, would you state your name and spell your last name for us? [chair squeaking] Marlene Stavros: It’s Marlene Stavros; my last name is spelled S-T-A-V-R-O-S. Cheryl McQuaid: [0:36] And what is your address? Marlene Stavros: 210 West Fairfield, Lansing, Michigan. Cheryl McQuaid: [0:41] Are you married? Do you have children? Marlene Stavros: I’m single; I’m divorced. Uh, I have two daughters. Cheryl McQuaid: [0:48] And where were you born and raised? Marlene Stavros: I was born and raised around the Eaton Rapids area, which is about 30 – eh, it’s probably about eight-, 18 miles from Lansing. South of here. Cheryl McQuaid: [1:02] And your education level. Marlene Stavros: I graduated out of high school in 1963. Um, went to work. Well, I shouldn’t say I went to work; I was married when I come outta school, outta high school, and had, uh, a daughter toward the end of the year, November, and at the time, I wasn’t working, but decided to go back to work in [sniffing] ’65. So, circumstances. [throat clearing] But, uh, I worked at the Coca-Cola Plant for almost three and a half years and decided that I wanted something better, so I decided to – I, I’d heard GM was hiring, so I decided to stop, put my application in there. Cheryl McQuaid: [1:59] How did you hear they were hiring? Newspaper? Friends? Marlene Stavros: Uh, just word of mouth; uh, some friends that I had. And so I stopped and, on my way to work one morning and put my application in and went on to work [coughing] and that was on a Thursday. On a Friday, I stopped again and put my application in again. Friday night, I got a call and they asked me if I’d had somebody put my application in for me and I told’m no, I’d been there [sniffling] Thursday morning and I’d been there Friday morning. I said, “I’m gonna be back in Monday morning.” And so they asked me if I could come in for an interview that after-, that night at 7:00, which I did. Cheryl McQuaid: [2:46] So there wasn’t a long line to wait in? You just went right into the front door or? Marlene Stavros: No, no. There was no line. I just, uh, went right in and put my application in. At that time, uh, employment was right down, uh, into the main lobby and up the steps, and I believe the – it was [Jerry 3:11]... Cheryl McQuaid: [Brooks 3:11]. Marlene Stavros: ...Brooks, yeah. Thank you. Uh, Jerry Brooks was doing the interviews at that time, and... Cheryl McQuaid: [3:22] You didn’t say, but I have to ask you this question: uh, were you ever in the military? Marlene Stavros: No, I wasn’t. Cheryl McQuaid: [3:28] And what did your parents do for a living? Marlene Stavros: My dad worked at General Motors, 652. He had, uh, when he passed away, he had 10 years in there. He’d worked in a couple different places over there. Uh, the last place he was working was in the motor plant. I also had a older brother that worked over there, for about 3 years, in the motor plant. I always say he wasn’t quite as smart as me ‘cause he quit after 3 years. [laughter] Cheryl McQuaid: [3:59] So we know what you did before ya hired in, and you said that they, um, you said they have you come in for an interview at 7:00 Friday night. Marlene Stavros: Yes. Cheryl McQuaid: [4:14] When did you [sniffing] start working? Marlene Stavros: They asked me if I could start Monday mornin’, and – or, well they my – if I wanted days or nights, and I told’m it really didn’t matter, I just, I wanted to work, and so he asked me if I could come in on Monday, and I told him I would appreciate it if I could give my other employer a week’s notice, and they said that that would be fine. So they set me up for work coming in on night shift a week after that, and – which I did. So I came in on October 21st of 1968. Cheryl McQuaid: [4:51] And what was it like? Well, do you remember your first day walkin’ in to go to your first job in the Plant? And where was that job? Marlene Stavros: It was up on the B Line, and it was up in Hard Trim. Uh, at that time, that was called Hard Trim. Uh, I thought it was the biggest plant I’d ever been in. I think I asked directions three different times to get up there, ‘cause it was on the 2nd Floor. And I can’t really say that the job I had was hard; I mean, I – I don’t know w-, there was a lotta up there that, in Hard Trim that I found out later were harder, but they put me on putting, uh, windshield clips on, uh, what they call now the Vehicle Identification Tab, I had to put those on, and I had to check the manifest to make sure that, uh, there was two other clips put on, and [sniffing] at that time, you were supposed to have a, I think it was a 3-day break-in period, and I was on the job for probably about 6 hours and the gentleman breakin’ me in left. He said, “You don’t need my help.” And it – I picked up things. I mean, when I worked, I – ya know, it’s a matter of usin’ your mind and eyes. They, uh – I had – I worked with some super people. From the time I hired in here, I’ve always worked with really [coughing] [inaudible 6:38] people in, [coughing] people in the Department, uh, anybody breakin’ ya in, uh, they were good, and you were supposed to be at that time, your boss – well, at any time, your boss would, uh, go by your work record to know, because I took a pay cut coming in from what I had been making, and your, it was up to your boss at that time to put you in for your pay raises or whatever, and like I say, I – they didn’t even – the next day, the, the boss came around and he, uh, pulled a guy because he said I didn’t need him, I was doin’ fine. When I grabbed my first paycheck, I had full pay. I didn’t, uh – he didn’t put me in. He said didn’t need to, to drop, to, ya know, withhold for that period. Cheryl McQuaid: [7:46] ‘Cause you were already a good employee. Marlene Stavros: Yeah, I, I was honest. When I come in here, I told him, I come in not lookin’ for just a job; I come in to work. Cheryl McQuaid: And – Doug Rademacher. Doug Rademacher: Marlene, you said a couple things here. You said you worked for Coca-Cola... Marlene Stavros: Yes. Doug Rademacher: ...prior to coming in. [8:04] Had ya ever worked in an assembly plant of any sort prior to that? Marlene Stavros: No. I... Doug Rademacher: [8:10] So would ya please share that vision of walking into a place where there’s just this continuous line of vehicles and musta been multitudes of people, can you describe what that felt like to see that? Marlene Stavros: Little scary. I mean, I – at Coke, I worked with a group a people not, I mean, a small group, and, and we did [sniffing] inspections and things like that, but nothin’ like when you walk into, uh, an auto factory and see a long l-, I mean, that’s all ya see are cars and people, and it was just – I was in awe. I was. I mean, it was amazing to me. And to see the assembly of, ya know, everything that went on that, uh, people did and worked together to get out a product, and I was amazed. I was just really amazed, because I had never, I’d never been in an assembly plant l-, ya know, this, this size, this magnitude. I really hadn’t. Doug Rademacher: And you came from a small town, so. Marlene Stavros: Right. And I... Doug Rademacher: Okay. Marlene Stavros: ...and I had worked in a small factory there, and it was still nothing [coughing] like, like walking into Fisher Body. Like I say, I had to ask directions just to get up to the 2nd Floor. Uh, bec-, I mean, ya got stairways, elevators [sniffing], but you, ya know, it’s – to f-, to find the, to get up to the 2nd Floor and then find the right department, and once ya do that, I found out, though, you can, on your breaks and on lunchtime, you can really explore [laughing] so that ya don’t get lost. Doug Rademacher: Okay. [10:09] You said you took a pay cut. So why did ya come to General Motors and Fisher Body if you knew you were takin’ a pay cut? What was your, what was your drive there? Marlene Stavros: I didn’t like bein’ lied to. When I worked at Coke, I had worked myself from dealing with bottles on the line to – I’d done every job there; inspecting, filling, everything. I was on a fork truck, I was drivin’ fork truck for the last year and a half, and they had a semi-drive, or semi-driving position come open, and I applied for it, I was told that I would – I had a very good chance a gettin’ it, and I got my – went and applied for my license, and then the man didn’t give it to me, because I was a woman. They put the guy that was drivin’ before back on, give him another chance. And needless to s-, needless to say, I think it really upset me. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: So that was your work. Uh, you’d – also I heard you say that, uh, your father passed. Musta been early. Marlene Stavros: Yes. Doug Rademacher: [11:36] What did your mother do and how many siblings did ya have? Marlene Stavros: I had a older brother and a younger sister, and our mother had always worked all her life. She was worked in, uh, what they call [inaudible 11:49], uh, pickling factory in Eaton Rapids. Uh, she worked there for almost 19 years. So everybody in our family pretty much had worked, even, even back during the war, my folks worked in a factory; they worked what’s now known as Horners Woolen Mills in Eaton Rapids, and they produced, uh, gun parts and things for the war, so. Factory was nothin’, ya know, to our family. It was – we – ya know, they’d always worked in’m; they had, my folks had. Like I say, my brother, he went into al-, he also went into Olds’ but he just didn’t stay. Doug Rademacher: [12:40] Okay, and on, one other question I have to ask is, uh, you said it was about 20 miles out of town of Lansing, so what was it like to drive, in those days, to the job back and forth to Lansing? Did you, uh, always travel alone? Did you come to work with a group of people and travel, uh, carpool or what was that like? Marlene Stavros: Ya know, it wasn’t bad, except in the winter. Highways were a little slick and a lotta snow back then. But, uh, always seemed to make it. Um, later on, uh, I was riding, uh, in the ’70s I ha-, if I’d have car trouble, I would, I – my mother remarried and, uh, I rode with my stepdad, and so. He was also in Skilled Trades. My stepdad [inaudible 13:45] was, uh, [Jimmy Fisher 13:47]. Doug Rademacher: [13:49] In the Fisher Plant? Marlene Stavros: In the Fisher Plant. Doug Rademacher: Huh. Marlene Stavros: And so, uh, I rode with him until I could get my car fixed. [laughter] Then I’d, uh, be back drivin’ by myself again. Doug Rademacher: Okay. Cheryl McQuaid: Jerri Smith? Jerri Smith: [14:03] Did you always work in the Trim Department when you were on the Line or did you work in Body or Paint at all or not? Marlene Stavros: I never got to work in Body or Paint. I thought I was gonna. [sniffing] I, uh – when they had the big layoff, uh, I was off for 4 months, laid off for 4 months, and then, uh, when I was brought back, I was told I was gonna come back into the Body Shop, which was fine. Uh, but then, uh, they had a lady on sick leave out of the, uh, Sealer Department, which is part a the Paint Department, and so they’d place me in there, and I was Utility in there, and I spent, uh, ‘bout 6 months in the Sealer Department, and between there and the Bond-Rite, and the Bond-Rite, uh, was where the, just the bare jobs come through and you had to do, you had a gray substance that you had to put on the seams to seal’m before they went in, you had to, this, the main sealer put on’m, uh, by the people in the Sealer Department. So and I was only in there about 6 months and they called me back to Trim. So I spent – I was in Trim, other than that 6 months, I was in Trim probably the better part of the, the, little over 10 years before I went into Maintenance. And it wasn’t that I didn’t like Trim; I got bored. I, I had probably done just about every job in the Trim Department and I was on, uh, Repair when I, when the, they started takin’ more people into the Maintenance Department, so I put my application in for Tool Repair. Cheryl McQuaid: Cheryl McQuaid. [16:10] Marlene, how old were you when you hired into Fisher Body? [recorder clicking] Marlene Stavros: Well, figuring down, I was 24. I’d a, I’d a – was gonna be 25 in December of that year, and seemed like the right thing to do at the time, and after all these years, I’m glad I made that decision to come to Fisher Body. Cheryl McQuaid: [16:35] And when you were, when you first hired in, you were 24, on the second shift, how many children did you have at home at that time? Marlene Stavros: Two daughters. Cheryl McQuaid: Two daughters? [16:44] Was that hard for’m? Marlene Stavros: Yes. Uh, we basically done a lot – my daughters and I done, uh, everything together, uh, whether it was a vacation, trip, be at home, go get groceries, whatever. We spent, when I was there, I was workin’ day and then I was gonna be there at night. So this was kind of a new ballgame to them. Uh, did I have major problems? No. Uh, they were good girls. Yeah. They knew it was a job. I had a good babysitter, and so everything, everything went good. Cheryl McQuaid: Excellent. [17:34] And what kind of, uh, as far as the people that you worked with, how many other women worked around you or, um, Hispanics or – could you tell us a little bit about the culture that you hired into? Marlene Stavros: I worked, in our group, with mostly men. The majority of’m were guys. Um, there was some other women. The majority a the women at that time were working in, uh, the Sealer Room in the Paint Department. Uh, we had very few, very few in the, in the Trim Department. Uh, I think that there was – that I know of, there was at least 3 others, uh, but in our Department, it was, [background conversation] it was all men, [background conversation] and [background conversation] I worked – ya know, I didn’t have a problem with it. Cheryl McQuaid: [18:38] So you never felt as though you were treated differently because you were a woman... Marlene Stavros: No. Cheryl McQuaid: ...in the Trim Department? Marlene Stavros: No. Cheryl McQuaid: [18:46] Did you... Marlene Stavros: Not at all. Cheryl McQuaid: ...did you ever have any pranks played on you or did you play any pranks on any other people? Was there any horseplay going on? Marlene Stavros: [background conversation] All the time. That’s what made the nights go good. Uh, you might pick your tool up that you’re usin’ for puttin’ in, puttin’ a clip on with and might have gum on it. [laughter] I mean, I mean they were good pranks. They weren’t nothin’, ya know – or you might have to look for the tool. I mean, it was just – and it was sometimes, not all the time, but it was sometimes. But, uh, yeah, it was nothin’, and yeah, y-, the – after ya get used to workin’ here for a while, pranks were play-, they were both ways. Because it just, it was a way of fitting in. Uh, [background conversation] I think the best thing was, uh, workin’ on the Line and, uh, you looked out for each other. Uh, I went – I wasn’t on the, the clip job very long when I, I went to spring, uh, [Detner 19:54], and I worked with a gentleman that he was up there in age, but he would have a lotta trouble, and, and after a while a breathin’ that stuff, he’d get a nosebleed. Cheryl McQuaid: Yeah. Marlene Stavros: You’d tell him, “Go take care of it. You just – you know, your head was already in the job, you just sprayed both sides,” and somebody on the guy workin’ next to him would put the Detner in after I sprayed, and ya know, it worked out. Uh, if I got to coughin’, needed a drink, he sprayed both sides, his head was in the job. I mean, it was – you really helped each other, and it – you always, I always worked – that’s why I always worked with a good group a people. Uh, I think as the years went on and there was so many changes, uh, and they ran both lines up there, one line the A Line and one, one the B, and you was runnin’ one on one side and one on the other, and then you had one downstairs for, I mean, the Paint Department things were down there before the new Paint Department went in. Uh, so you, you had two lines runnin’ up there. It was – so you seen a lotta people. Cheryl McQuaid: Doug Rademacher. Doug Rademacher: You say there was two lines. Can you describe – uh, again, we started out and talked about that [coughing] ya hired in and saw that long line of vehicles. Now, that’s a line. Marlene Stavros: [Right 21:39]. Doug Rademacher: [21:40] Uh, what was the difference between the two lines? What’s this A and B thing that you were talkin’ about? Marlene Stavros: You had one, one product, like on the B Line you run, uh, the Olds’ Ninety-Eight, at that time, and then the Eighty-Eight, and then you had, uh, a different product. Uh, we had a convertible line that we ran where that had, uh, [for a while 22:16]. We had a Vista Cruiser wagon line that we, that also was up there that run. And so in between, you had, ya know – this is, this is hard. Doug Rademacher: Well I, [laughter] I wanted you to describe to people just – y-, the cars weren’t the same. [22:40] There was just... Marlene Stavros: No. Doug Rademacher: ...all kinds a different responsibilities to each different vehicle, correct? Marlene Stavros: Exactly. Yeah, you had – and, and you had, at that time, a lot of [coughing] [inaudible 22:51] buildup for the people workin’ on the lines for what they had to put onto each one a the different cars. Uh, your – it was a lot more congested. It, it, it – back then, back in those, in those, in that time, that year-span. Because the lines were full, your parts were there, but you might go off your platform acrossed a short aisle of, say, 10 feet, and you’ve got another assembly line running right there. Uh, and the way that they, they snaked around the curves and, and then they went back up into what they call that Marshal-, the Marshalling Area in [5 Second 23:48], uh, to go over to Shipping. Uh, it was – the lines were changes for comin’ up outta Body Shop, uh, which at that time, I didn’t know where Body Shop was and how they got up there, but I knew that we had’m to work on. [laughter] Ya know, I mean, so. Doug Rademacher: [24:16] So the, uh, the place was daunting to, just to imagine, uh, the differences of the parts and, uh, one vehicle would come at you and then the next one might need different parts and, uh, did you ever... Marlene Stavros: Yes. Doug Rademacher: ...did you ever have a chance where you visited what they called the Body Shop? And what was it like down there? Marlene Stavros: I’m, I got really, really acquainted with the Body Shop after I went into Maintenance. Our, uh, crib was down on the 1st Floor, Main Aisle, and we serviced, even though we were called “Tool Repair” and serviced all, all the tools for the line, we also did a number, I mean, quite a number of jobs, because we also serviced automatic drills for the Body Shop, we had balancers that hung up that the spot-weld guns were hanging on, and so we would go out, if we had a balancer break in the Body Shop, we would have to go out and change that balancer. We’d have the line down while we were doing that, if it was an on-line, where the line was moving, for safety purposes. Uh, and we [sniffing] had, we had areas where there was pits where you had to go down into the pit, and we also people working down in there that had tool-, air tools, that maybe they put the brackets on for the fender. And so, we would go down into the pits, we might adjust automatic drills that drilled the holes for the, for the, uh, brackets for the fender. We also would, uh, do the ones that, uh, [coughing] had balancers where they were havin’ to do spot-welding on, on any part of the car, uh, we would be in the pit to make that adjustment with our crank. And so, we were – I got well-acquainted with the Body Shop. Doug Rademacher: Oka-... Marlene Stavros: Uh, you had s-... Doug Rademacher: You’re [inaudible 26:36]. Marlene Stavros: Well, well, s-... Doug Rademacher: [26:37] You said you’re well-acquainted. I wa-, what I want to get at here is you’d work in Trim and that was [inaudible 26:45] line. What’s the picture, for this, for whoever listens to this, what’s it like to see a body shop? What, uh, what does that look like? Marlene Stavros: At that time, it was dirty, and all you seen was a jungle of spot-weld guns and people handling those spot-weld guns. Um, we had gates that, I mean, heavy gates that brought parts around to people. Uh, maybe two guys would have to pick up, uh, literally the whole side of the car – it’d be the, uh, side frame – and place it on, and then – or place in th-, in to where then they could s-, spot-weld it on. Uh, it was, it, it was nothin’ like the Trim Shop. Everybody out there was required to have, you had hats on, I mean, you had coveralls, shop coats, steel-toed boots. Uh, Trim was always clean. I mean, you’d go in in short-sleeve, shorts; not in the Body Shop. Body Shop, you were well-protected from the sparks, because you’d see guys walkin’ around in the summertime when it was so hot with all these holes [laughter] that they’d gotten hit with sparks from the spot-weld guns and things. And we also at that time had a, a Solder Booth where they did all the soldering on all the joints for the, for the cars. And then you had a Grind Booth, and the protect-, the things that you had to wear in there was for the ears and whatnot, and your f-, your shields for your eyes because a the grinding goin’ on. And we would also have to go in there, ‘cause we’d have to keep their oilers filled and adjust the balancers, also, for – or change one if one broke, for anything in, uh, the booths where they doin’ any a the grinding. So the Body Shop probably kept a lot busier, [throat clearing] at times, than the Trim Shop for the Tool Repair group because of the, we had floor grinders, uh, for maintenance people, we had balancers and grinders and automatic drills for the line people, and there was as many people working in the Body Shop, to m-, ya know, I would think, really close, as there was in any other department at, at Fisher Body. Doug Rademacher: [29:40] Can I ask you, looking at a job, you saw the person. Can you describe the size of a spot-welder gun? Marlene Stavros: We had one called Big Bertha. [laughter] John, remember Big Bertha? John Fedewa: Yup. Marlene Stavros: That gun was big, and it didn’t matter... Doug Rademacher: [30:05] Was it as big as the person? Marlene Stavros: Oh it’s bigger. And so, ya know, it, it just depended sometimes, uh, when you walked in, you, you’d be amazed at this person, ya know, really h-, manhandlin’ this gun to get it around where it’s got to be to spot-weld this job, and you wouldn’t think – I mean, there was times I didn’t think the person could move the gun. The guns were just – and they were, it was – they were on balancers when I come in. Uh, I’ve had some really good partners, and my partner told me that when he came in, they didn’t always have, uh, balancers on these guns. They literally had to bodily pick them up, and if, when they were real heavy, the heavier of the spot-weld guns, there would be two of these guys pickin’m up, and they were steel. I mean, they were solid for spot-weld guns. There was nothing light about’m. They weren’t hollow tubing; they were, they were, the shanks and things were s-, solid steel, and which I found out when we had to change a balancer because we would have to literally lift that gun up off a the balancer, off the hook, and set it on the floor to change the balancer, and then we would have to lift that gun back up and put it back on the balancer hook. So they were, they were very heavy, and then you had others that, that weren’t, but I mean, they probably ranged in – let’s say weight-wise you had guns that, that weighed anywhere from probably 30 pounds up to I’d say 280 to 300 pounds, and on, on those large guns, we would have balancers that would ta-, we would call’m a Size 30, and they would reach 300 pounds, pick up 300 pounds and they’d be a 3-springer, and those balancers weighed right around 85 pounds. It would take two of us to, to go up a ladder and change’m out and then to bring’m down. Doug Rademacher: [32:35] So this balancer was something that assisted the labor, the, [coughing] the worker to, to man-... Marlene Stavros: It was... Doug Rademacher: ...to maneuver this tool... Marlene Stavros: Right, it was... Doug Rademacher: ...[while 32:44]... Marlene Stavros: ...hooked onto the, the spot-weld gun so that he, he just could reach over and, and unhook it off his bench, and the weight a that gun would be most of it on that balancer when it was, uh, adjusted properly. Then he’d just bring it down and into his, where he had to spot-weld. Doug Rademacher: [33:08] Now I wanna go a [little place 33:09] – now, was this job on the assembly line? Marlene Stavros: Yes. Doug Rademacher: And how [sniffing] many cars – again, the line runs forever. Marlene Stavros: Yes. Doug Rademacher: [33:18] How many were we running, how many vehicles would run in an hour, on average? Marlene Stavros: 60. Doug Rademacher: Just tryin’ to develop... Marlene Stavros: I’d say... Doug Rademacher: ...a picture. Marlene Stavros: ...yeah, [sniffing] I would, I would have to say that even back then we were, we were probably running somewhere [yawning] around 60, 62, sixty – possibly 65 [murmuring] jobs and hour. Doug Rademacher: So one a minute with this huge contraption. Marlene Stavros: Yeah. Doug Rademacher: [33:57] Did – and you’d worked up in Trim. Did you – you know people who worked their whole lives in Body Shop, I’m sure as people stayed in Trim their whole lives if they – so did you gain a respect for this particular group a people that worked in the Body Shop? Marlene Stavros: Very much so. Very much so. [sniffing] It was a lot hotter down there to work, a lot heavier, a lot dirtier work. Uh, to me, it was even, even more dangerous because of, you’re down there, you’re workin’ with raw metal. You’re actually assembling the, the body itself in the Body Shop, and then by the time it, uh, it gets to Trim, you’ve got a few, a few parts, the tops a your doors, that, uh, are sharp, but not, nothing like in the Body Shop. You’re, you’re, you’re literally, they were literally working with raw metal, and it, uh – putting all the parts on, all the, all the pieces that, uh, say it would have to be, uh, your clips, uh, putting your door panels together, puttin’ the roof on the car, and these people were wearing arm shields. And that’s why, ya know, they basically had to have the car hearts or the coveralls, the shop coats and the arm protections and things on, because they were workin’, to me, in the most dangerous part a the Plant, and – as far as being around the raw metal. And yeah, I, I, I had a great respect, ‘cause I figured if they called, they needed somethin’, that they needed it now and not yesterday. Yeah, it’s – if one a them balancers got out of adjustment, that’s a lotta weight to have to stand there and lift doin’, ya know, sixty-some jobs an hour. You don’t wanna, ya didn’t want to do it on one, let alone 15 or 20, and so. Doug Rademacher: [36:14] Was there any women? Was it... Marlene Stavros: Yes. Doug Rademacher: ...men? Was it minorities? Who got those jobs? And did they get – the pay scale, was it different than Trim? Marlene Stavros: I don’t know. I, I can’t answer the one on the pay scale because I never ask anybody their pay. Ya know, I always figured that that was their, uh – they knew what they got, that was their business. Uh, I know welders usually got more in the Plant. To me, they shoulda got more, whether they – I think they did, but I couldn’t say for sure, [sniffing] in all honesty. Uh, there was women. As far as who got put on what job, uh, like the rest a the plant, it went, uh, seniority and if somebody was brought in, new hires, whatever, they were always placed on open jobs in the Body Shop, just like Trim or Paint, anywhere else. And so, I seen some, I seen some pretty – yes, there was, with the women in the Body Shop, I seen some pretty tough lookin’ gals out there that, uh, were on different jobs, and I’ve seen some smaller lady-, gals out there that – ya know, and it – but the one thing that didn’t matter. I mean, uh, they coulda placed, uh, a small-built woman [coughing] on a, on a spot-welder [coughing] and I’ll guarantee that I never seen a time that if she was havin’ difficulty that there wasn’t guys all around her helpin’ till she got used to the gun, got – showed her different ways to use it and do the job; until she figured out her way of wantin’ to do it, she always had help. Jerri Smith: Yes, Jerri Smith. [38:18] Um, I was wondering, when you went into Maintenance, um, did you have to go through school to learn how to do the Tool Repair and all that or did you just in and learn from the other people that were already in it? Marlene Stavros: Uh, probably a good way to answer that question is that I, I’ve always been pretty well, pretty good with my hands, and so, most a the things I could tear apart and repair. Uh, yes, we – I had to go, I had to take schooling. At that time, we had to take, uh, almost 4,000 hours of classes, of – for our schooling. We went, I went to LCC. You could not, uh, go during workin’ time, and when I went into Maintenance, they put me on days for my – at that, at that time, well, you’re called an EIT. And so, I had to, I worked all day and went home and then I went to school at night to get my classes. You had to take, uh, math, welding, blueprints; uh, there was a variety. They, uh – that was our requirement for 4 years, until we got what they [inaudible 39:48], and – which claimed you got your seniority, and after that 4 years, then I was shipped to nights, and after another 4 years, I made [papers crumpling] journeyman status, but I found later with the Tool Repair, you weren’t given a card. We were not a, they were not a card-holding trade. Um, there was some things that I had never seen, and I had a – there was a couple guys in there that was real good that if I had a problem with something, uh, with a larger grinder or whatever, they showed me, uh, more or less what I was doin’ wrong till I could, ya know, get it figured out on repairing. Most a the things are, you can, you can figure, but you’ve got some tools that take different sized push rods, some take a push rod, some don’t. I mean, they’re just all different, and, uh, I think that the worst scenario in, when I went to Tool Repair, it was so different from working with the people on the Line, and not for the better. It’s like proving yourself day after day because you’re a woman in t-, in a d-, in a, in a man’s world. And when they saw that I wasn’t lazy, I could do my job, uh, that [banging] they, uh, ya know, they kinda, they changed in that, that respect, but I worked with a lot of older gentlemen that were from the old school; it wasn’t good. They, uh – I had to share a bench, matter of fact, with one a them gentlemen, and he worked afternoons, I worked days. I’d have a tool tore apart. Well, when you got a, when you got a, a call come in to go out and do a troubleshooting, you just left everything on the bench and you went out and did your troubleshooting, and, uh, most of you know that, uh, when, uh, Second Shift starts, they usually s-, come in at, you have a half-hour hour to – ya know, they start at 3:00. So you have, ya know, you should have everything picked up. Well this gentleman would – they started at 3:30. This gentleman would come in [murmuring] and I would find everything that I had been workin’ on that day shoved up in a little corner; parts, tools, rags, everything. After the third day a that, comin’ back in from troub-, because we had a lotta trouble calls [laughter], and, uh, I did that for about three days, and, uh, I come in and I got all my stuff off the bench and I took all a his stuff and scooted it right up in that corner where mine had been, and when he got mad at me, I got in his face so bad that I told him he could either come in at his own, at the right time and just go set at another bench till I got back to clean up my stuff, but don’t ever touch it again. It was just the way it had to be. This guy did not like, I’m sorry, he did not like women in the trades. So that made it, it made it pretty rough there for – it got – it was bad enough that that first year, I was ready to go back to the Line. I had some wonderful people out there that I worked with; I had never worked with some-, somethin’ like I’d been into there, for that period a time, and it kinda settled out, and after that, why, I really didn’t have, I didn’t think, anymore, I, I didn’t really have any more trouble with the guys in, in, in the Tool Repair. They w-, they were a pretty good buncha guys after that. Jerri Smith: Let’m know where you stan-, stood and. Marlene Stavros: Yup. Yup. Well, I think when they found out that I could do the work, I held my own, I dis-, ya know, I didn’t expect somebody else to do my job and get my pay. I – ya know, and I never have, so. They, uh, [door closing] I think they – as I got a respect for them more, they got more a respect for me, and – but there was still times, and even in Maintenance, that the management would try to overlook a women when it come time for that job switch or, or something different to happen. [sniffing] Uh, in our group, it was like the window job. When, when the seniority person retired, the next person in line on that shift would take that job, and it’d always been that way from day one that I’d gone in there, and I was told that it’d [sniffing] always been that way, and, uh, when I was on second shift, uh, and our window man was gonna retire, the next man in line said he did not want it. Well, that put me in line for it and, sorry to say, I had, uh, somebody from management tell me that they could put – they didn’t have to put me on that window job, that they could me in the – they could put the lowest EIT person in there on it if they wanted to. And that really, it kinda hurt because I had already gone through all the training for the computer and everything, so. And I was always up helpin’ anybody with when they, if they were on break or whatever, you just kinda helped each other because it was a small group doin’ a lotta jobs, and so you always helped do whatever. If somebody’d come in needing somethin’, you, you got, you fixed a tool and sent’m back to the Line. We had a lotta people come in, they had certain ones that they liked in there to work on their stuff. They’d bring it right into our crib, go right to the person’s bench, whoever it was, and they’d fix it and give it back to’m. The only thing I d-, I didn’t like was if somebody out on the Line tried to repair their own, and then it might take a couple days for’m to get it back. [laughter] They don’t wanna do it again. Because the main thing was they’d lose parts. If we didn’t have’m, uh, it took a little longer. Even if we had’m, it took a look a-, little longer if they, if they tore it apart. [laughter] Quick lessons. [laughter] Yeah. But it worked out. So, so there was still, even though in there we got, there was a close-knit, there was a still a lotta problems with management doin’ what they doin’. Jerri Smith: [47:06] Did it, did it work out that you ended up gettin’ a job or did... Marlene Stavros: No. No, I didn’t get it. Jerri Smith: Just because management didn’t want a woman in there. Marlene Stavros: Exactly. John Fedewa: Hm. Marlene Stavros: Yup. And so I stayed on the bunch, I did trouble calls. I still helped out if the guy needed help on the window. And the guy that, they actually put the guy on there that didn’t want it, and so, he would do bench work, and when he was off, ya know, break or whatever, I’d go out and help, you know, I’d do the window for him. I’d put p-, he didn’t like runnin’ the computer, and I knew that, so when it got time to put all the, the, the, the parts that we’d used and, and ordering, I’d just go up and do the computer work for’m. They didn’t know the wiser; they thought he’d done it. No biggie. [laughter] Cheryl McQuaid: Cheryl McQuaid. [48:04] Marlene, what is one of your best memories of Fisher Body? Marlene Stavros: Mm. [background conversation] That’d be hard, because I’ve got a lotta good ones. [background conversation] And I think my, my – probably my best memory was when I was a Production Worker on the Line, workin’ with a group up in, uh, Hardware Trim puttin’ in regulators. [background conversation] Cheryl McQuaid: You put in regulators? Marlene Stavros: Mm-hm. Cheryl McQuaid: That was a rough job. Marlene Stavros: Mm-hm. Those were, those were the heavy ones. You put bolts in’m. Ya didn’t put rivets in’m; you put bolts in’m. And we would switch around up there – I mean, you’d a had to been in our group [background conversation], because we would literally [background conversation] we could do either side the Line. We would switch. I mean, we’d do our job for an hour [background conversation] and then we’d switch side-to-side and then we’d switch the people on the front. There was 4 people at that time done regulators. And it was, it was a lotta fun. Uh, we joked around a lot and the only thing our boss told us: “Don’t ship nothin’. [laughter] ‘Cause you’re gonna be down there pickin’ it up.” [laughter] And we, and we didn’t. Matter of fact, we did our own, uh, [background conversation] we did repair, if somebody behind got, got behind behind us, why, we had a screw gun there as well as our gun for the bolts, and so, we would take and just, ya know, we might do couple screws in the feather for them, ya know, to get them caught back up, ‘cause we did feathers, we did guar-, feather guards, we did regulators. And I think the thing I liked, too, was, ya know, in – but that was my best. The people in, in Hard Trim, I, I liked workin’ with Production people. I liked workin’ with people, period. Uh, if our line went down early and the other line was still runnin’ and it, uh – I’d go over to the A Line, which was called the A Line back then, [background conversation] uh, which eventually become the C Line, I believe, [background conversation], uh, I’d go over and set windshields and back glass. [background conversation] Uh, they’d have somebody’d wanna go home in 8 hours [background conversation], go over there. That was the nice thing, too, about workin’ in Trim or workin’ with Production; you could work overtime [background conversation] and so. It was – it helped. Cheryl McQuaid: [50:43] Marlene, I know that we could get a lot more out of you [sniffing] but we need to close up this interview, and is there anything you want to share with us before we stop the interview? Marlene Stavros: The, the only thing that I – I was, I spent a lotta times on night shift, and the only thing that I would ever do different is – and tell the people that anybody that has children growing up and they’re on second shift, if there’s any way that they could possibly go to a midnight shift or a day shift while their kids are bein’ raised, do it. Uh, I have two wonderful daughters and I’ve got three wonderful grandchildren, but it, it w-, I think it got harder on them as they got older. Me-, ‘cause I spent – I could not get on any other shift. I, I literally was stuck on second shift all the time they were growin’ up. And I – and to answer a real quick question that you had asked me earlier: [sniffing] Uh, as they got older and they had programs in school, I had, uh, I had some wonderful bosses too. They would let me, ya know, get out to go to those programs and, and come back, or I could just put in for the half a night or whatever. Uh, so, but that was a, that was a biggie with me. I wish that, at that time – that’s probably the only time that I could, I wished I could change. But they, they’re still good. They got wonderful jobs, so. Ya know, it does work out in the end, but you miss, you miss a lot, and I think that, ya know, they, they need things, whether it’s supervision or help with things, more in the afternoon period than they do at the, ya know, durin’ the day. So. Cheryl McQuaid: Well, Marlene, thank you very much. Doug Rademacher: [We all 52:44]... Jerri Smith: Yes. Doug Rademacher: ...thank you very much and we – if you’d have the time, we’d like to another interview with you and continue this one. Jerri Smith: Yes... Marlene Stavros: All right. Jerri Smith: ...and congratulations for being a woman in Trades [laughter] and that you’ve stuck it out and... Marlene Stavros: Thank you. Jerri Smith: ...stayed with it. Cheryl McQuaid: Thank you. Marlene Stavros: I think that was a – my dad always said, “Don’t go into shop; you’ll never make it,” and I wished he was here to see that I had almost 38 years. Cheryl McQuaid: 38. Wow. Marlene Stavros: It’ll be October. It... Cheryl McQuaid: Congratulations. Marlene Stavros: ...it’ll be 38. Jerri Smith: Yeah. Marlene Stavros: So. Jerri Smith: We think you’ve done great, so. Marlene Stavros: Thank you. Doug Rademacher: Enjoy. Marlene Stavros: Thank you. /rt