Lue (Loo) Sudduth, an African American, discusses his 35-year career as a UAW production worker and GM manager at the Fisher Body plant in Lansing, MI Marilyn Coulter: [recorder clicking] Lansing Fisher Body Historical Interview with Mr. [Louis 0:05] C. Sudduth, and it’s December – 7th, is it? Lue Sudduth: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: December 7th, uh, 2005. We’re at UAW Local 602 Conference Room. Uh, my name is Marilyn Coulter. And my co-interviewer is? Doreen Howard: Doreen Howard. Marilyn Coulter: [0:22] And, uh, Mr. Sudduth, could you please state your name and spell it for us, please? Lue Sudduth: Uh-huh. My name is Lue C. Sudduth; L-U-E, initial C, and S-U-D-D-U-T-H. Marilyn Coulter: Thank you. [0:34] So Mr. Sudduth, um, [background movement] can you tell us, um, [papers rustling] [sighing] are you a resident of Lansing? Lue Sudduth: Yes, I am. Marilyn Coulter: All right. [0:42] Are you married with children? Lue Sudduth: Yes, I am; I’m married with a wife and three childrens. Do you want the name? Marilyn Coulter: If you want [inaudible 0:51]. Lue Sudduth: Okay. The oldest is [Deborah Jean Sudduth 0:54], [paper rustling] and she’s 49; and the next one is [Johnny Glue Sudduth 0:54], [phone ringing] and he’s fr-, [inaudible 1:04]. [phone ringing] [clicking] Doreen Howard: Okay. Lue Sudduth: So, he worked at Fisher, you know. Doreen Howard: Oh, you’re [chair squeaking] all set. Lue Sudduth: Johnny Glue Sudduth, and he’s 47 years old, and he worked at Fisher Body for, uh, 20-somethin’ years [sniffing] and relocated to Doraville, Georgia. And the, uh, youngest son, he, uh, went to California for a scholarship at UCLA in football [papers rustling] and he got up there and he didn’t like UCLA and I don’t neither. He wanted to go to USC, so I couldn’t afford it, so he turns around and he go to Cal Poly Tech to get a degree, then he goes to Long Beach and get a degree, and he turns around and go to criminal justice and get a degree; so he’s in the, uh, law enforcement there, and, uh, last I talked to him, he had passed his test for detective. Doreen Howard: Mm. Lue Sudduth: And I have about seven grandkids, six great-grandkids, and my wife and I, if we live to see August of 2006, will be married for 50 years... Marilyn Coulter: [Inaudible 2:12]. Lue Sudduth: ...without any, uh, divorce or any – I mean any, uh, split up, [inaudible 2:18] any hang-ups, and we, uh, just enjoyed raisin’ our children, and now the great-grandchildren, we kinda like to get them every once in a while, you know, enjoy’m. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: So we just enjoy our life [chair squeaking] and we go to church. Doreen Howard: Oh. Lue Sudduth: And we, uh, usually we spend the winter in, uh, Arizona and California, but when we start havin’ grandkids, we, uh, kinda got stuck with them, like my wife think can’t nobody take care of’m but her. [laughter] And, uh, we just enjoyed. And the oldest one is, uh, 14 and the youngest one is about 2 years old. So but they scatter around; one is in, uh, Dallas, Texas with her mother and dad, and another one’s in, uh, Maryland with her [tapping] mother and dad. [tapping] And we’re just a happy-go-lucky kind of a family. We get along good. Marilyn Coulter: Great. Lue Sudduth: And I didn’t give my address. Marilyn Coulter: Oh. Doreen Howard: Oh, that, that... Lue Sudduth: And my address is 3627 Jerree Street, Lansing, Michigan 48911. Marilyn Coulter: All right. [3:42] Mr. Sudduth, can you tell us, um, what year did you hire into Fisher Body? Lue Sudduth: F-, in ninet-, November of 1954, and, uh, I got hired in there, and I really, really had a good time. I enjoyed it. I’d been from, uh, a worker, employee, to supervisor, back to Skilled Trade, and I really, really enjoyed it... Marilyn Coulter: [background movement] [4:15] So... Lue Sudduth: ...and... Marilyn Coulter: ...um, n-, so when you walked in, what’d ya think a the building when you first came in? Lue Sudduth: Well, I knew it was a place of work, but, uh, I just was, uh, surprised at the, uh, building of automobiles and what it take to build an automobile... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and it was a real, real experience, and I guess I worked from, uh, the Body Shop, Paint Shop, Trim; actually, I worked all over the place. Marilyn Coulter: [4:57] Which one did you hire in in initially? Lue Sudduth: I hired in in the, uh, Sealer Room. Marilyn Coulter: [5:02] So that would be... Lue Sudduth: That would be... Marilyn Coulter: in the Paint Shop? Lue Sudduth: ...mm-hm, Paint Shop. When I hired in, it was in the Sealer Room. [phone ringing] And you know, it’s a funny thing. We used to have to what they call “truck in the bodies.” We had to have one man in the front pullin’ and one man behind pushin’, and I had a g-, a partn-, my partner was a big guy, weighed about 280, and I was a little guy, and I was always on the back, but a lotta times when we’d get to movin’ it, I’d just on and ride the back. [laughter] As a young man, I mean, it’d pay m-, didn’t, didn’t bother me. But I really had s-, nice time. I really enjoyed it and I had a lot of friends that we went fishing and huntin’ after work and thing, and I really, really loved that. And I just, um, was a guy that wouldn’t, wouldn’t take long. To me, I could look at a job and in 20 minutes, I could do it. I didn’t, didn’t take no, uh, three days to break, but they give ya three days to break in, but, uh, I look at a job and decide I wanna do it, I just go ahead and do it. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: And, uh, I really got along with all the supervisors, the plant managers. And, uh, the people thought a lotta me everywhere I went after I [inaudible 6:29] went into the Trade, when I went... Marilyn Coulter: [6:32] Uh... Lue Sudduth: ...into Trade. Marilyn Coulter: ...what trade were you in when you [inaudible 6:34]. Lue Sudduth: Paint. Marilyn Coulter: You were in the Paint trade. Lue Sudduth: Mm-hm, and how to... Marilyn Coulter: [6:36] So... Lue Sudduth: ...make the paint, mix it. Marilyn Coulter: ...you were a Paint Mixture. Lue Sudduth: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: Oh, okay. [6:40] And so were you, during your whole time there, did you primarily do most of your time in the Paint Department? Lue Sudduth: I did 27 years in the Paint Department. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: And, uh, I sent their samples in to the government so long till that they wouldn’t even test it no more, they, they’ll test it. So I [sat in there 7:01] for 27 years and I took a 3-weeks vacation and somebody else sent it in and didn’t sign my name, so they sent three mens in there to close the shop down, and when they got there to ask for me, because they thought I had retired, and they said, “No, he’s just on vacation.” They said, “When will he be back?” They said, “Well, he’s supposed to be back Monday.” And they said, “Well, we’ll let you run today and tomorrow,” which was Thursday and Friday, said, “but, uh, we gonna send three or four mens in.” You got to run a efficiency test. A paint consistency test consisted of, uh, really checkin’ all the paints and the viscosity. The viscosity was somethin’ like a little #2 c-, #3 cup, and you had to have their number, whether you run it for 30 seconds and how fast it ran out would be like, uh, 3-5, the number of it, so and that way you wouldn’t get a lotta skim and stuff to go on the outside of the buildin’. So then, uh, after that, we run the efficiency test and, uh, then from then on, anybody would send it in, they’d sign my name to it and they, they’d never check mine. After they – when I first started sendin’ in, they checked it, but they never found nothin’ wrong with it for 27 years and, uh... Marilyn Coulter: [background movement] [8:30] How long in total did you work at Fisher Body? Lue Sudduth: 35 years and 3 months. Doreen Howard: [door closing] Uh, Doreen Howard. Um, I wanted to go back to, um, when you first hired in. [8:48] Can, can you describe what the factory was like when you first hired in, what, ya know, what the environment was inside? You said you hired into the P-, the Paint Department on the Sealer Line... Lue Sudduth: Yes, I... Doreen Howard: ...at that time? Lue Sudduth: ...yes, I did. Doreen Howard: Um, describe what, what was it like. What was the environment like in there? Lue Sudduth: It was, uh, a lotta ladies and the mens, and they worked together real good, and you’d always find some mens don’t wanna help a lady – or, I’ll say a “woman,” at least – but to me, it didn’t make any different y-, who – what race you was, anything; I’d a help anybody. Because I used to go through the – aft-, in the Paint Department, when I hired in, any job that anybody was havin’ problem with and if I was around, I would – they would a-, say, “Ask LC.” They called me LC. Say, “Ask LC,” and I would either train’m or show’m how to do the job, and then after I’d show’m how to do the job, they’d look at me and thank me and say, “Thank you s-, very much.” And I had some womens that, uh, this one lady I guess I could say, but she, uh, [chair squeaking] every third word that she’d cuss, and, uh, I didn’t swear and cuss and I d-, I didn’t like to see a lady do that, and finally, I had told her one day, if she gonna cuss around me that much, I wouldn’t, wouldn’t like to talk with her or have a conversation with her. So and she told me later on, she said, “I respect you for that,” and said, “I’ll try not to cuss and swear around you,” and she did. She honored it real good. Ya know, it was nice to work with her, ‘cause I worked with her for about 15 years. Marilyn Coulter: [10:41] Um, Mr. Sudduth, in 1954 when you hired in here, um, and there were predominantly – there were a lotta women there, were – was there a good mixture in terms of race and gender? Lue Sudduth: Not really. Marilyn Coulter: [10:55] What was... Lue Sudduth: Not... Marilyn Coulter: ...it like? Lue Sudduth: ...at all. When I hired in, they hired in 11 [tapping] peoples and I was the only considered black person out the group. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: And there was a lotta places that they didn’t, uh, hire black in, but... Marilyn Coulter: [11:14] Such as what place? Lue Sudduth: Such as, uh, the Paint and the, uh, Sealer, Cushion Room. The most that, black that they had in there, I’d say most negros they had in there was in what they called “Wet Deck.” Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: It was where they wet-sand the jobs [banging] and they ro-, wore, uh, aprons [tapping] and rubber boots. [tapping] It wasn’t a hard job, but it was in the water all day long, and I know some a the mens, black and white, was, uh – had looked like arthritis and their hands would be like, uh, wet all the time. But, uh, afterward, looked like – after ’54, they seen the black were just – worked better than some a the Caucasian or Spanish guys, ya know. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: Then, after that, because they didn’t have, uh, one black supervisor in there before, I think one before I went on, but, uh, after I went off, then I had, uh, a better deal in the Paint Mixing Room. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: So I enjoyed that more and I made more money, and I wasn’t responsible for nobody but LC. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: Because when I was [tapping] supervisor, I was responsible 48 peoples... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and that’s a lotta different characters to have to get along with. Marilyn Coulter: [12:47] How long were you a supervisor? Lue Sudduth: I think about 6 months or somewhere along there. Marilyn Coulter: Mm. Lue Sudduth: But I d-, I, I enjoyed it because the peoples that worked and then they found out, people that knew I was a supervisor in the Sealer Room, everybody that knew me upstairs put in a application to transfer to work for me. So they took me in the office one day and they asked me why everybody wanted to work for me, and all I told’m was, “Well, I treat everybody like I wanna be treated.” That’s how I try to get along with everybody. Even the Plant Manager and all the, uh, higher-up wanted to know how did I – why did everybody wanna work for me, and I told’m, I explained to’m, I said, “You’re not workin’ for me. I would only be your supervisor. You workin’ for General Motors,” but they still want to come and work where I was. It’s funny, it was – go ahead. Doreen Howard: [13:45] Y-, you were one of the first blacks in the, the Paint Department as, on supervision [inaudible 13:50]? Lue Sudduth: I think I was the first or the second. I believe either the first or the second. Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. [13:56] Was there, um, any minorities in any a the other departments? Lue Sudduth: Uh, [Al Kelly 14:01] was in, uh, third shift cleanup. [tapping] What’d they call it? The Maintenance. He was in that. And then I think, uh, after that [sniffing], [Stepta 14:09], [Cleve Stepta 14:11]... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...same in. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Doreen Howard: [writing] Okay. [writing] [14:20] So that was a big change going from... Lue Sudduth: Workin’... Doreen Howard: ...hourly to, to... Lue Sudduth: ...to salary... Doreen Howard: ...management... Lue Sudduth: Mm-hm. Doreen Howard: ...but it sounds like you [thumping] transitioned fairly well, that the people accepted you... Lue Sudduth: Real well. Doreen Howard: ...in that... Lue Sudduth: They did... Doreen Howard: ...transition? Lue Sudduth: ...uh-huh. Doreen Howard: Mm. Marilyn Coulter: Um, during – well, Marilyn, uh, Marilyn Coulter. [14:44] Um, during your time when you hired in, were there any types of [tsk] new hire pranks or jokes that they played on people when they were? Lue Sudduth: You know, in the department I was in – [tapping] this is L, Lue C. Sudduth – the department I was in, we didn’t, uh, have too many peoples that, uh, come in and they played jokes on’m. Not as I knew, at least. If they did, they didn’t do it around me. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: And, uh, because I was a type a guy I, when I’m workin’, I never joke, and if I did drink, I didn’t drink while I was workin’, if I go out to the tavern or the bar, I didn’t – I wouldn’t want to go to the bar and drink my lunch hour [inaudible 15:32], ‘cause I didn’t believe in that, and I didn’t do it, and, uh, but I knew a lotta guys that did do it, and they would come back in, we call it “halfway juiced up;” in other words, halfway drunk, and, uh, on that job, they would, uh, make a lotta mistakes, but, uh, after a while, I think some of’m kinda didn’t really quit but they didn’t drink as much durin’ their lunch hour. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ‘Cause we had a lotta guys that go to the bar and spend their time at the bar and c-, when they come back, you can tell when people had had a little too much to drink because they get a little loud. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Um – go ahead. Doreen Howard: Um, I’m Doreen Howard. [16:25] Um, I want to go back to, um, can you describe the differences between when you first hired into the Paint Shop... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Doreen Howard: ...to what it was like when you retired? Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: Oh... Doreen Howard: Some a the differences that... Lue Sudduth: ...the different things was, different was, that really different [inaudible 16:46] is the, uh, you worked 3 weeks – this is Lue C. Sudduth – you worked 3 weeks nights and 3 weeks days, and, uh, goin’ from one shift to the other shift, you had a little problem, uh, you know, say sleepin’ durin’ the day because you wasn’t used to it. But, uh, when you work days, you could sleep better at night. So, uh, it was quite a bit different before I retired because they had a straight shift; you worked days or night. So and I mostly worked days after I had the straight shift, and it was nice. Marilyn Coulter: Um... Doreen Howard: And as far – okay, you said, you said that started when you first hired in they were on a swing shift... Lue Sudduth: H-... Doreen Howard: ...and... Lue Sudduth: ...this is Lue, this is Lue C. Sudduth. When I went in, it was on swing s-... Doreen Howard: ...and... Lue Sudduth: ...swing shift... Doreen Howard: ...and then... Lue Sudduth: ...when I started. Doreen Howard: ...then you went to a straight shift. Lue Sudduth: Yes. Doreen Howard: [17:44] Do you have, um, any idea what the timeframe was, what year or any – that that... Lue Sudduth: Couldn’t tell ya. Doreen Howard: ...may have occurred? Lue Sudduth: Ya know... Doreen Howard: You know what timeframe? Lue Sudduth: ...I r-, this is Lue Sudduth. I really kinda don’t really know exactly what time, but was in the, uh, ‘70s, I believe, uh, close to ‘80s that they went to, to straight shift. Doreen Howard: Mm. [18:11] So you went through quite a few years of working a swing shift, and now, y-, you were married during this timeframe. How did that affect your family and your family life? Lue Sudduth: Well, it really, uh, didn’t affect it real, real bad because I worked and my wife stayed home with the kids for a long time, till, uh, [background movement] they all got in school – this is Lue Sudduth – and, uh, I would spend a lotta time with my childrens; ride bicycle with’m, I’d go to the games. Both of the son played, uh, basketball and football and, uh, I would go to their, attend their games, and it was, it was really nice. Marilyn Coulter: Mm. Doreen Howard: Now, when – oh. [recorder clicking] [19:11] Now, when you went to a straight-shift operation, now, were you on a day shift or were you the, uh, afternoon shift? Lue Sudduth: I was the day shift. Doreen Howard: [19:21] And what were the hours of operation for the day shift? Lue Sudduth: From, uh, for 8 hours, from 6:18 to 3:12, but a lotta days, we worked it overtime; an hour, 6 minutes, 12 minutes, a half an hour. But I was in the group that, uh, when I went to the paint d-, mixin’, I worked from 5:18 till, most a the time, 4:18; I would work 10 hours a day, and a lotta days I would work that shift, and then the m-, except on Saturday or Sunday. I worked a lotta Saturdays and Sundays and, uh, every New Year I had to work. So but they paid to do it, you know, but I had to work every New Year’s because what I was doin’, my group was 11 of us, we had to get the paint ready for the startup after New Year’s and steppin’ to January [clicking] and once they start the 2nd or the 3rd. But whatever day that would fall on [clicking], we’d have to come in and mix paint [clicking] all day [clicking] and get it set up for the, uh, start of the ship, [clicking] and... Doreen Howard: Now, you talk about mixing paint. [20:48] Describe what is it... Lue Sudduth: Oh... Doreen Howard: ...to mix paint, how... Lue Sudduth: ...mixin’ paint... Doreen Howard: What do you do? Lue Sudduth: ...we’d have a... Doreen Howard: How do you do it, I... Lue Sudduth: Okay... Doreen Howard: ...guess? Lue Sudduth: ...okay, [clicking] we’d have, uh, what they’d call a tow tank. They’d bring it in from Flint, and it’s about, mm, over 5,000 gallons, and we’d set it up on the ramp and then we’d hook a hose to the back of it and let it go th-, we had a wall, like let it go through the wall into the mixing tank, and we’d put a agitator in the top of it to keep it stirred up. Am I goin’ too fast? Doreen Howard: No. Lue Sudduth: To keep it mixed up. [Inaudible 21:29] and we’d, we’d mix it by the pound. We ran out three or four-hundred pounds into the mixin’ tank. Then we’d run like, uh, about, uh, 75 gallons a thinner in with it, and we’d turn the agitator on and mix it into one, and we’d get ready to ship it upstairs. We’d put it over to the what they call a runnin’ tank that pumps it upstairs. And, uh, that did, that took quite a while, but it was enjoyable. Can I give ya a story? Doreen Howard: Sure. Lue Sudduth: True story. Doreen Howard: We like stories. Lue Sudduth: Before I retired, I was getting’ ready to retire, and I would never come back in back somethin’ happen and they want a paint mixer somebody to come back. Uh, if they call me, I could refuse to come in on the other shift. I had, uh, 5 guys that come in from Australia on, [clicking] on nights, and they come in to [clicking] see me, and they wanted to know everything about the paint. So they asked the guys in the paint mixin’ could they call me and I’ll come back in. They told him, said, “He don’t come back.” He said, “Well, if we pay him will he come back?” Said, “He don’t come back for nothin’.” Said, “Once he leave, he, uh, could leave everything he’s doin’ right here.” So the Friday mornin’ when their plane was leavin’ that Thursday night, but the Friday mornin’ when I came in, they were still there, ‘cause the paint mixer explained, said “If you wanna see him, you gotta wait till tomorrow,” and they wanna know was there anybody else could explain the paint to’m, and the guys that was in there told’m said, “If you wanna know everything, you have to ask him.” So when I go in Friday mornin’, everybody in the Shop knows somebody lookin’ for me. Everybody say, “There five guys in here last night lookin’ for you.” I said, “From where?” They said, “I don’t know.” I said, “Were they government men?” They said, “I don’t know.” So I said, “Where were they from?” They said, “We don’t know.” So in the mornin’, ‘bout 8:00, they came in lookin’ for me, and I had two, uh, little Caucasian guys, they call me Dad, ya know. Both of’m would walk up to me, ya know, and kiss me and say, “Hi, Dad.” So I didn’t pay no attention, ya know, but they just was, uh – they liked, they loved me, really. When they hired in, I was their supervisor, and from that day on, they called me Dad, and, uh, the one little guy, he looked at’m, he said, “What the H-E-L-L you want with my dad?” I was sittin’ over havin’ coffee and a donut, readin’ the paper, and they said, “Well, we’re from Australia and we come in and want to know about the paint.” So and they said, “Oh, there he is there.” So they came over and they introduced themselves to me, and, uh, so and I ask’m, I said, “You from Australia?” and they said yeah. Said, “They told us” – “We was in here yesterday and they told us to come see you, but you had gone home,” and said, “We ca-, we asked’m could we call ya or could we, uh – would ya come in and they said no.” Said, “We told’m if we pay you would you come in and they said no. Said, ‘If you wanna see’m, you got wait till tomorrow.’” I got one somewhere, honey. Doreen Howard: [Okay 24:55]. Lue Sudduth: Anyway, so that mornin’ I came in, I took’m through the Shop, through the paint mixer, and explained everything to’m, and all five of’m was writin’, and when they got through the writin’, they offer me a job in Australia. So and I just politely told’m, I said, “Well, you’re 5 years and 3 months too late; I’m retiring next month.” And so the guys told me, said, “Here’s my” – “Here’s our card. If you’re ever in Australia,” said, “look us up, and everything’ll be on us,” but I haven’t been to Australia yet. [laughter] I’ve been everywhere else, but not to Australia. And I thought about that and I was tellin’ some peoples about it and they was laughin’, said, “Why didn’t you go to Australia?” I said, “I’ve been here for 35 years and 3 months and retiring and goin’ back to work is nothin’ I wanted to do.” [laughter] Doreen Howard: [Inaudible 25:54]. Lue Sudduth: So, mm-hm. And after the – but the main thing, after they went through and they wrote down so much and I give’m so many numbers, and they looked at me and that’s when they offered me the job and say, uh, “You give us all of this and, uh, you didn’t pull a piece a paper or pad or nothin’ out your pocket,” and they want to know, “How did you know – how ya” – I say, “If you do somethin’ for 27 years, you oughta retain some of it up here.” [laughter] And so they laughed. That’s when they offered me a job and I said, well, they were just too late. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: But I said – I felt good and it was nice for somebody to offer me a job... Marilyn Coulter: Mm. Lue Sudduth: ...and I was getting’ ready to retire... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...but it was great. I think I’m, I know [tapping] I know I’m the only guy who worked at Fisher Body that peoples workin’ the Line thought enough of to give me a surprise birthday party. Doreen Howard: Hm. Lue Sudduth: And it was great. Doreen Howard: [26:56] You... Lue Sudduth: A-... Doreen Howard: ...for which birthday? Marilyn Coulter: For which birthday was it? Lue Sudduth: Uh, what birthday was it? Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. Lue Sudduth: Let’s see, I retired at 57. I was 57... Doreen Howard: Hm. Lue Sudduth: ...because I’m goin’ on 75 now. At 57 years old, they thought enough a me to give me a retire-, birthday party. Doreen Howard: Hm. Lue Sudduth: And everybody in the Shop knew that they gave, give me one. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: [background movement] And ya know, sometime ya do things and other peoples’ll get jealous. So we had a guy in there that was in my group and he had been there 44 years. He went downstairs and was complainin’ to management that the peoples give me a surprise birthday party and he been there 44 years and they never give him one. [laughter] Them, the peoples downstairs told him, said, “Yeah, we heard about that guy.” I said, “Who is he?” So he get my name and everything, and so, they said, “Yeah, we heard about him say, uh, [background movement] Mr. So-and-So,” said, “we, uh, we can’t do nothin’ about that.” Said, “If these people thought enough a him, they workin’ the Line thought enough a him to take their money and give him a surprise birthday party,” say, “ain’t nothin’ we can do about it.” Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: So, it was kind of, it was nice, though. It was really, really nice. Marilyn Coulter: [28:13] So were dinners and birthday parties something that they didn’t do in the Paint Department much? Lue Sudduth: We had Thanks-, oh no, we had Thanksgiving dinner and we had a Christmas dinner, but that was for everybody in it... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...but just to give one person a surprise birthday party... Marilyn Coulter: Was something that [inaudible 28:32]. Lue Sudduth: ...had never been done before. [tapping] Marilyn Coulter: Oh. Lue Sudduth: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: [28:36] So, um, yours Thanksgiving dinners [inaudible 28:38], were those like potlucks or did they order food in? How did they do that? Lue Sudduth: They had a tray about 24 or 22 inches wide full of barbeque chicken... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and baked chicken, and they a little a everything, pots, and, uh, I was shocked. I didn’t even know it, but when they did it, s-, I, I was, uh – I would get on a little, I had a little flatbed Kalamazoo truck that I rode around in, and I took my tools [background movement] and wore’m on the side, and when I’d get off whenever I n-, I’d take’m off and lay’m on my truck, and, uh, some a the other guys in there would take theirs off and lay’m on the truck, and somebody’ll go by and take one and threw it in the trash, but I could go anywhere in the Shop, all over the Shop they knew me and never borrowed my tools, and I would go someplace that they would have maybe a, a hose broke upstairs, they had like upstairs, ‘cause I’ll be just ridin’ around. I’d go up there and sometime like where they put in the windshields, uh, one a the hydraulic line would break where they was use, usin’ the urethane, and, uh, they had to take, get extra help to carry the windshields over to the cars to put’m in, and the supervisor would ask me could I fix this hose for him, and, uh, I would fix it probably about 5 second, and, uh, when they got to call Maintenance to come up and fix it, and when they get there, they lookin’ for it and said, “Where’s the hose that broke?” and somebody’ll tell’m, “Oh,” said, “Lue was just by here and he fixed it.” And he had a little card, about 3x10; everything they do, they write it down, so I’d be the one to fix it, they’d take the card, just rip it up and throw it in the trash. But then some of’m would, uh, call a committeeman so when the, when – after they call a committeeman, the rest a the guys would look down on him and say, “If Lue fix it, what’s wrong it?” Ya know, but I was just a person that if I could help anybody wherever I went, I would do it. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. [30:57] Um, Lue Sudduth, during your time, um, that you were workin’ on the Line, were you ever laid off, and if so, did y-, were you ever laid off and did you ever go on strike? Lue Sudduth: Well, when they laid off the whole – yes, I was laid off. I think I was laid off my longest time was about 4 months, I believe, and, uh, I had a outside friend that worked for Oddballs and I think I worked down there for about 3 a the months with him. Marilyn Coulter: [31:30] And Oddballs was? Lue Sudduth: Oddballs Clothing Store. Marilyn Coulter: It was a... Lue Sudduth: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: ...clothing store. Lue Sudduth: Yeah. And other than, once I was laid off again for about [chair squeaking] I think 4 months, when they had a strike. So and I, I had another friend that worked construction, [sniffing] and, uh, then I had another guy that him and I used to [inaudible 31:52] together, he was inspector of the city, and, uh, he wanted me to come and work with him, but instead a going working with him, I set form for a contractor, a [C-Man 32:07]. Marilyn Coulter: Oh. Lue Sudduth: Other than that. And, uh, I was so good to the man that owned the company, he had a son, and his son, we didn’t get along because he was jealous of my, uh, settin’ forms was so much better than he could that he s-, he kinda, he s-, it, his dad came to me and me, he said, “He won’t be around anymore; I’m moving him.” His father moved him away from around me. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ‘Cause this, that’s what would happen. Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Lue Sudduth: And so I probably woulda took that hammer and hit’m upside the head with it. [laughter] Pardon me. But, but it was nice that his father thought enough a me. And then after I told’m I was goin’ back to General Motors, he offered me, uh, [papers rustling] a job guarantee... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...with his company, and, uh, my mother had f-, my mother was there and my mother had found out that h-, his son and I had some worries [sniffing], and she told me said, “Son, you go back to where you were, ‘cause blood is thicker than water,” and he came to my house and cried and asked me to come back with him. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: But I told him I, uh, I think it’s better if I go back to where I was, and so I went back, but that was in the early ‘60s, and I think I only had about 6 or 7 or 8 years [tapping] in there. I had about 8 years, and so I went back, came back to General Motors and, uh, stayed there for the rest a [sniffing] my time. Marilyn Coulter: [33:36] So, um, how long had you worked before you became a Paint Mixer? Lue Sudduth: [tapping] Oh, a paint mixer? I think I had worked about, let’s see, 35, 27, about 8 years. Marilyn Coulter: Been there 8 years. [33:55] And in th-... Lue Sudduth: Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: ...in that 8-year timespan, it sounds as though the Paint Mixer was a preferred job, yes? Lue Sudduth: Yes, it was. Marilyn Coulter: How – what type a reaction did you get with you bein’ a, um, African-American male, got that job back in those days, a preferred job such as that? Was that well-received by your coworkers? Lue Sudduth: Yes, it was. Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: [tapping] Okay. [34:21] Um, so what were some of the big changes that you saw in terms of race and gender in the Paint Department over your, um, long years of working there? Lue Sudduth: Well, it was [inaudible 34:38] up and down, you know? You had different peoples do different things [sniffing] and, uh, some peoples looked like could do anything, and, uh, they would let it go, but then some peoples that would, uh, just to be truthful which is some people would misuse the bathroom breaks. Marilyn Coulter: [35:02] And this was across the board? Lue Sudduth: Yes, mm-hm. And, uh, then some of’m, you didn’t have no problem with’m about misusin’ the bathroom breaks. They would get a relief like 15 minutes, 10 minutes, or 12 minutes, but then some of’m would use that for different things, and then they’d a-, want a bathroom break, and some of’m would misuse the bathroom break. But other than that, it was, it was good to work with a lotta people, good to work with. Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: And the most job I worked on I could do myself. Now just for me, if you were behind me or in front of me, I could do your job [clicking] and the job I was doin’ too. I could really do that. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: And, uh, ‘cause I had a – well, I he wasn’t a – he was a friend or coworker, and, uh, he went on [inaudible 36:00] too; name was [Ray Dunn 36:01]. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: And, uh, Ray and I would get together sometime and spray a car, and we would spray, uh, 2 and a half job before guy wanted a break, wanted to smoke a cigarette... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...or anything. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: We would – him and I would work our job and, uh, another half of another man job, and he’d do the other half. We could do that. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: But, uh, [clicking] a lotta peoples wouldn’t do it, but him and I didn’t mind because we were [clicking] [sniffing], you know, he was a tall guy... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and long arms. When we were sprayin’, if I didn’t watch him, the hole in the floor a the car, he’d take and cut his air hole off and scoop through there and spray my shoe. [laughter] He’d load my shoes up with paint, and, uh, when I found out he’s doin’ it, I w-, he’d turn his back on me, and when he’s turned his back, I’d go up and down his back with my hose [laughter], my paint. And so, uh, well, it was all in fun. We never had any argument about it, anything. Afterward, we would laugh and had play, uh, clean jokes like on one another. We didn’t ever get in a fist fight or anything, no... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...nothin’ like that. This was just, uh, somethin’ that we enjoyed doin’... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...because we was both young and about 20-somethin’ years old and, uh, it – I think about it now, you know what, we would laugh so hard until, uh, the other peoples that workin’ with us, ‘cause I – most of’m was older than we were, they would laugh with us about because we could get away it, and when the, uh, supervisor came in and he’d be loaded with paint, either my shoes are loaded with paint, the pant legs and thing, and he said, “How’d you get all that paint on ya?” and, uh, I’d like across at my partner, and his name was Ray, I said, “Ray sprayed me.” “What’d he do that for?” “Aw, he just wanted somethin’ to do.” [laughter] And we’d like it go. It was really nice. We, we had a lotta, lotta good workers and good sprayers and good painters. Doreen Howard: Hm. Marilyn Coulter: [38:22] So when you say you sprayed paint, was there a particular part of the job that you pai-, that you sprayed? What were you spra-, you know, what were you spraying when you say you were spraying paint? Lue Sudduth: We would have to spray say, uh, either ‘round the door, the front a the car and open the door up and spray the inside a the door, and on the 2-doors it was easy to spray, but the 4-doors was you had to be a little quicker. We had certain spots, and then, uh, we’d have to spray the, uh, underneath the truck layer, which was a little, little different, but and I said him and I would just spray around the edge of the windshield and the doors and the back of the windshield, and then a lotta time we’d have to spray [sniffing] edge a the wheelhouse... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and it was in certain spots of a car you had to spray, because you had to – in color, you had to change your hose for different colors of cars, but you know, when, uh, after doin’ it so long, after I got, got out on the Line, I was mixin’ the paint, they would run back with what they call blocks. A block is like about 29 one color, but either 50 or 60 or 70 of one solid color, and that made it real easy for the guys that were doin’ the paint because they wouldn’t have to change their hose so often. And, uh, it was somethin’. Really, it was nice to see. If you’ve never been in there, you never worked there, anybody that drives a car, if they get a chance just to go and see what it is to – because at this time [sniffing] when I was workin’ and I started there, they didn’t have the robots; the robots came in just before I retired, some part of’m, and we had, uh, what they, ya know, they had a overhead sprayer and a side sprayer, but whoever’s workin’ next to that had to change the hose for it to run through there, and then they got the computer, when they got a comp-, when we got the computer I was still workin’ there, and, uh, it was [tapping] guy on the desk outside, he’d punch it in [tapping] from out there and the machine would do it himself, [sniffing] and that was really somethin’ to see... Doreen Howard: [40:59] So... Lue Sudduth: ...from the way... Doreen Howard: ...they went from the m-, this is Doreen Howard... Lue Sudduth: ...man-, went from manual... Doreen Howard: ...from a manual spray – and how... Lue Sudduth: ...to... Doreen Howard: ...how many people [tapping] do you think were in a booth... Lue Sudduth: Hm. Doreen Howard: ...sprayin’ at that time compared to when you saw the automation come in? How many people... Lue Sudduth: It’d be, like, uh... Doreen Howard: ...did that eliminate? Lue Sudduth: ...it elimi-, it eliminated about [clicking] 15 or s-, ‘bout 16 people. [tapping] Before that, it’d be about 24 peoples in there, be about 12 on each side... Doreen Howard: Mm. Lue Sudduth: ...and when they got the, uh, [sniffing] computers in there, it eliminated about 80% of the workers. Doreen Howard: [41:41] Now, how, how big is this booth that you’re talkin’ about? To have 24 people in it, it’d have to be quite large. Lue Sudduth: Uh, it, it ran about, uh, 28 to 30 feet long; say, uh, at least 28 or 30 feet long, or more. [sniffing] Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: It was quite large. Doreen Howard: So that woulda been crowded, fairly crowded then t-, to have... Lue Sudduth: It was, uh... Doreen Howard: ...that many people... Lue Sudduth: ...uh... Doreen Howard: ...in there. Lue Sudduth: ...it wasn’t – it might a been longer than that, but it was, it was an – like, east side’d have about 12. Doreen Howard: Oh, okay. Lue Sudduth: So, and they’d be spaced out like different, mm-hm. Doreen Howard: Okay. Lue Sudduth: [sniffing] And, uh, they had like, uh, you had like about, your – each one had about 6 to 8 feet that you worked in... Doreen Howard: [background movement] All right. Lue Sudduth: ...so that musta been more than 20-somethin’ feet. Doreen Howard: So it was very, very large. [sniffing] Lue Sudduth: It was about, yeah, probably 38 or 40 feet, or maybe, maybe 50. Doreen Howard: Okay. [42:36] So... Lue Sudduth: It was quite long. Doreen Howard: ...now, you said in the beginning when they did the manual spraying that they n-, would change colors, like one car would come in and be black, the next one would be white, so they would have to change their hoses in... Lue Sudduth: Right. Doreen Howard: ...between each vehicle? Lue Sudduth: Uh-huh. Doreen Howard: [42:52] And then, as – when the automation came in, is that when they went to the block painting? Lue Sudduth: R-, right. Mm-hm. Doreen Howard: Okay. [42:59] And that helped to reduce, uh, quality issues? Is that what the... Lue Sudduth: No, it really... Doreen Howard: ...the reason? Lue Sudduth: ...it, actually all it did was reduce the labor... Doreen Howard: Okay. Lue Sudduth: ...because there wasn’t as many peoples; reduced the labor real, real... Doreen Howard: Okay. Lue Sudduth: ...and, uh, we had a guy in there and, uh, he was lookin’ at the com-, robot, and, uh, some supervisor wanted somebody to look at it, so and he asked’m, said, “What do you think about that? That take care a five men.” He said, “Yeah, that’s nice,” and he said, “but that robot don’t buy no car.” Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: So. Doreen Howard: [43:40] So when the, um, they went and they went to automation, it reduced the number of, of employees in there, and, and th-, also at that time, they went to the block painting. Lue Sudduth: Right. Mm-hm. Doreen Howard: Okay. [43:59] And, um, they went to that, I assume, because it was easier for someone to not have to change the robots programming... Lue Sudduth: Right. Doreen Howard: ...aft-, after every... Lue Sudduth: Mm-hm. Doreen Howard: ...single vehicle versus maybe 10 or how many ever vehicles that they would program to spray... Lue Sudduth: Mm-hm. Doreen Howard: ...one particular color? Lue Sudduth: They, they, they ran f-, in the, in the block, they ran at least 28 to 70. Doreen Howard: Okay. [tapping] Lue Sudduth: So you have quite a while a one color goin’ through, and it made it, uh, well, it was convenient for the workers because they didn’t have to change their hoses, and, uh, the hose would be hangin’ on the wall. You’d reach back and get that number... Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and you had a certain area to spray it [tapping] and ya have so many feets to, to spray it, the time to spray it in, and they would run like, uh, 60 jobs an hour, 1 job a minute, and then sometime it’d be 52 jobs an hour... Doreen Howard: Hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and, uh... Marilyn Coulter: Um, not only was – Marilyn Coulter. Not only was automation in paint changing constantly, the name – Fisher Body, BOC, Lansing Car Assembly – changed. What’s your reaction to the changes? How’d it affect you? How do you view the Plant? What do you call it? Lue Sudduth: Well, I was always used to Fisher Body [tapping] but I think when I retired, they had it all was GM. I really didn’t pay that much, uh – it really didn’t concern me that much, I’ll put it that way. It really didn’t concern me that much, but, uh, to me, it was always a place where they built cars, and, uh, there was sometime I would go out into the, to the layout where the, uh, I had a lotta time, really, on my job after I was mixin’ paint, because a lotta time I wouldn’t have to do nothin’ in 2, 3 hours or more, and I had a lotta time to kill, and I’d go out and see what they, uh, started buildin’ next model, and you’d be surprised at, uh, how much work and how many, uh, peoples is in this building a new body, a new style, I’d say. It was a new style. Say the next, next year they would have to go through, uh, a period of times at least 4 or 5 or 6 months to get this body style that they want for the next year, and, uh, I just enjoyed lookin’ at everything they had on the wall and on the tables, and I’d go and just look at it and see, and they would have every [papers rustling] spot-weld number in there [papers rustling], like the number a spot-welds on that body. They’d have all of’m numbered, and, uh, it was, uh, looked like a Chinese checkerboard. [laughter] But it was really n-, really somethin’ to see. Doreen Howard: Doreen Howard. Um, I’d like to go back to, um, what you were describing earlier about paint, the paint mixing and the p-, um, some a the procedures and steps that you did during that. Um, you talked about these huge trucks coming in with, with paint and they you mixed them with, uh, a solvent and... Lue Sudduth: A thinner. Doreen Howard: A thinner? Lue Sudduth: Uh-huh. Doreen Howard: [47:56] And you actually put a color. Is, is that what your – is that why you were mixing the paint? You were making – you actually went in there and put the certain amounts of each color to come out with X, Y, Z... Lue Sudduth: No. Doreen Howard: ...color when, at the other end. Lue Sudduth: No. Doreen Howard: No? Lue Sudduth: They would bring it in what they call a tow tank... Doreen Howard: Okay. Lue Sudduth: ...and they’d have a number on it. If it’s 22, it’s blue... Doreen Howard: Okay. Lue Sudduth: ...and if it’s, uh, 40, it’s white, and what it is, the paint is in the tow, but we’d have to mix thinner in it to get it where we could spray it outta the gun. Doreen Howard: Oh, ‘cause it was thickened. Lue Sudduth: It was thickened, uh-huh. Doreen Howard: Okay. Lue Sudduth: And that’s w-, in the top of it we had like a, what they call a agitator, and it run by, uh, air, and we’d put the, oh, take the top off and drop this agitator down in the top of it and put this, uh, uh, agitator... Marilyn Coulter: [48:55] Like a big blender? Lue Sudduth: ...uh, agitator. It was small. You’d be surprised. Marilyn Coulter: Mm. Lue Sudduth: Probably about 10 inches ‘round. Marilyn Coulter: Okay. Lue Sudduth: But it, it had like a bottom had blades on it... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and it had a little cup around it. We’d put it in there and we would agitate it for about, oh, 10 or 12 hours. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Doreen Howard: Oh. Lue Sudduth: Uh-huh, and then we would pump it out into a mixin’ tank. We would take and pump out like from three to four-hundred pounds; we’d mix it by the pound. Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: And then we would add about, uh, 60 pounds or 75 pounds of thinner is what they call it. Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: It was called a 6202, a thinner to mix it so that that would – because when it comes in, it’s real thick like. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: And, uh, we’d mix it by the pound, and then when we’d get it – mix it up, we’d put then a tank on the other side that we’d mix it in. They had two tanks; one would pump it upstairs through the line and the, wouldn’t believe it, but the line would be about 32 miles... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...through the – you wouldn’t think a that much room in there of where the line would go... Doreen Howard: [50:07] That’s what I was... Lue Sudduth: ...and... Doreen Howard: ...wondering, how it got from... Lue Sudduth: From the mixer... Doreen Howard: ...the, the – ‘cause the paint mix area is not anywhere near where the... Lue Sudduth: What they’re usin’... Doreen Howard: ...Paint Dep-, where they actually painted at in... Lue Sudduth: Right. Doreen Howard: ...in the facility, correct? Lue Sudduth: Uh-huh. It’s a long ways. Doreen Howard: Okay. Lue Sudduth: And, uh, pump it upst-, and, uh, up through the line, and it had, uh, a up pu-, you pumped it through the line and the return would turn back because you couldn’t just let it sit; if it sit, then it would dry like. You had to keep it turned and keep it movin’, goin’ up and comin’ back... Doreen Howard: Okay... Lue Sudduth: ...and it’d come back and the same thing, in the tank. Doreen Howard: [50:44] Now, is that why the – ‘cause you said you worked just horrendous amounts of hours. Eh, did you have to come in so much earlier in order to get the paint flowed and have it to the area where they needed it by the time that the p-, the, the other employees for the Paint Department came in and used to s-, to spray? Is that why you had to come in so much earlier? Lue Sudduth: R-, right. We’d come in early enough to, uh, mix up the paints, all the different colors a paint, which was 13, to make sure that we got enough in the tank for them to start with. Doreen Howard: To start the [inaudible 51:23]. Lue Sudduth: Uh-huh. But then, after when they started runnin’ the blocks, we had it made. It was, uh, ‘cause we’d look on the, either on the computer or on the sheet. Every shift would leave them a note and we’d know what’s running to which, which color’s runnin’ to which, and we’d mix that up. We would take our time with the rest of it. And, uh, it, it was very easy, but you know, have you really, uh – to me, some peoples don’t mind readin’ and studyin’, and, uh, they would send us to school one day a month and one week a year, but they’d pay us for it, [rattling]... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and, uh, I never did turn it down, but a lotta guys, they, they would go to school and go to sleep [tapping], but whenever I went, I always read everything that they put in front a me, and, uh, [tapping] it was, uh, a job, if you wanted to do it and do it right, you could enjoy it, because the, uh, what we use, we use some high thinner to clean the lines with. Actually, we use ether, but they n-, 99% of the peoples in the job didn’t know that we used ether down there... Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and uh, when we was usin’ it, I was the only one that wasn’t afraid of it... Doreen Howard: Hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and, uh, because I would put a Scott pack on it, put on a rubber apron, [inaudible 52:55]... Marilyn Coulter: A Scott pack is what, please? Lue Sudduth: Is a air con-, is a, is a air conditioned – not air condition – it’s really, uh, like, uh, breathing, so you... Marilyn Coulter: A breathing tank. Lue Sudduth: ...can breathe – mm-hm, breathing tank. Mm-hm. And, uh, I didn’t mind usin’ it. And, uh, I, I read up on it and know how to handle it. The main thing when we get into somethin’ dangerous, we don’t read the instruction before we start usin’ it... Marilyn Coulter: So – Marilyn Coulter. [53:23] So, your job was, number one, sounds like it was very dangerous; number two, it sounds like you worked in a, um, authorized personnel only area, correct? Lue Sudduth: Correct. Marilyn Coulter: [53:35] So... Lue Sudduth: Y-... Marilyn Coulter: ...ya had to have special training in order to be down in the paint mixing [inaudible 53:39]. Lue Sudduth: Right, you, you, you have to have the trainin’ or somebody in there know what they was doin’... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...to use it, [background conversation] because I had two brothers to work in there with me, and, uh, it was [inaudible 53:53] [Larry 53:53], and uh, one name was Larry and I forget the younger name. Anyway, but they worked in there with me when we, we would use ether, they would, uh, they would just go out and ask me did I need any help, and I’d tell’m no, I said I knew what I’m doin’, say, “Best for you to go out?” And with the Scott pack on, it’s like a air blowin’ through here all the time, I was getting’ fresh air... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and, uh, [background conversation] then, when we, uh, pump it back out, I’d put a tow tank and put it back through the line and hooked the, uh, [background conversation] line up [background conversation] to the back in the old tow and let it pump in the, uh, tow tank, and, mm, take about probably 30 minute to get about, uh, 5,500 tow tank full back, [background conversation] and then we would put a tag on it, set it outside, and some truck would come in [background conversation] and haul it away. [background conversation] Now, where they hauled it, we didn’t know... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and we didn’t ask. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: But we didn’t ever leave it inside. We’d close it up tight and set it outside, and... Doreen Howard: Doreen Howard. [55:04] Um, you, you said th-, it was called a Scott pack? Is that what that, the apparatus, the protective equipment... Lue Sudduth: It was, uh, it was like a, uh, oxygen in it. Doreen Howard: Oxygen tank... Lue Sudduth: Oxygen tank... Doreen Howard: ...like oxygen... Lue Sudduth: ...uh-huh. Doreen Howard: ...tank – so... Lue Sudduth: Oxygen tank. Doreen Howard: ...so... Lue Sudduth: Just put – you strap it on your shoulder... Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and you had a [background conversation], a little turner on it, [background conversation] and you’d turn it up to get as much air you want comin’ out through your... Doreen Howard: [55:31] So, was a confined space that, that you were in, d-... Lue Sudduth: To use it. Doreen Howard: ...t-, in order to use that... Lue Sudduth: Ah, yes, it was. Doreen Howard: ...you said th-, for the most part, you were in there alone... Lue Sudduth: Well, I, I, I would... Doreen Howard: ...[inaudible 55:44]? Lue Sudduth: ...yeah, I would be in there alone, mm-hm. [background conversation] But the guys knew I was in there... Doreen Howard: [background conversation] Okay. Lue Sudduth: ...and, uh, they, uh... Doreen Howard: [background conversation] Keep an eye... Lue Sudduth: ...keep... Doreen Howard: ...on ya? Lue Sudduth: Oh yeah, they – if I went out, in, uh, say 15 or 20 minutes, they would come around and, and look... Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and check. Doreen Howard: [55:59] Now, I can recall when I worked in the Paint Department [background conversation] they talked about some, [background conversation] um, a button, some kind of a, a button that if, if the person who was inside, they would push some button and make the paint drop or, or somethin’ to that effect so that they could... and they had so many seconds to get out of [background conversation] that confined space. Lue Sudduth: Mm-hm. Doreen Howard: I’m not, not... Marilyn Coulter: [Inaudible 56:29]... Doreen Howard: ...really sure what it was all... Marilyn Coulter: ...[inaudible 56:29] fire? Lue Sudduth: That’s in case of fire. Doreen Howard: That w-, what was for f-... Lue Sudduth: 45 seconds. You had 45 seconds... Doreen Howard: ...that was for fire. Lue Sudduth: ...to get out. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: And, uh, they used to tease me about it, and we had a big ol’, uh, [background conversation] forklift in there. [background conversation] [recorder clicking] Doreen Howard: Okay. Lue Sudduth: Now... Doreen Howard: So, um, that was used for, um, in case of a fire. [56:51] Was fire something that would occur? D-, did that every happen during your time... Lue Sudduth: Not, not... Doreen Howard: ...there? Were... Lue Sudduth: ...not... Doreen Howard: ...they... Lue Sudduth: ...not while I was there, a fire never occurred, but we had a young engineer that come in and didn’t know what he was doin’, and what he did, he pushed the button twice, and it, when it pushed that button, the doors lock, and, uh, the oxide is a big tank sittin’ outside, they call it oxide, and what it does, it would come in and smother everything and couldn’t nobody breathe in there; if you were still in there, you couldn’t breathe, and but ya had 45 seconds to get out, and the doors would automatically lock, and when they talked to me about it, I tell’m, I say, “You see that [electric 57:36] truck up there?” I say, “It won’t kill that,” I said, “but if it every happen, I’m makin’ me a new door through that, uh, block wall over there. I’m goin’ out through that door with that big truck, [laughter] making a new door. I’m getting’ outta here.” And they just laugh and said, “Well, you got nerve.” I said, “Well, no, I’m just particular [background conversation] about [sniffing] what I can do to get out”... Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...but just so happen when he did it, wasn’t anybody in there, and, uh, he pushed the button twice. What [sniffing] they was doin’, they was gonna bring him down there as a supervisor, but after that, hey, we said, “No, we don’t want this young fella. Not, not in here. If he don’t know what he’s doin’, he’s just punchin’ buttons because they’re up there. And it was a big red button about 5 inches around. He didn’t know what it was; didn’t read it, didn’t look at it or nothin’. He just, just punched it, and it shut everything down, and, uh, so, ya know, I don’t know what they did with him, but, uh, they sent him to school [laughter] for engineer... Doreen Howard: Hm. Lue Sudduth: ...but this is what he come in and did, and after he did that, I didn’t see him anymore. [laughter] Doreen Howard: [58:53] Now, if they, if they did something like that and you say it shuts everything down, everything meaning just [tapping], just the paint mix area, or did it affect the whole entire Paint Department, or the whole Plant? How, how far... Lue Sudduth: It just... Doreen Howard: ...reaching... Lue Sudduth: ...mm-hm. Doreen Howard: ...was this particular... Lue Sudduth: It would just shut the Paint... Doreen Howard: Just the... Lue Sudduth: ...Department... Doreen Howard: ...just the... Lue Sudduth: ...down, uh-huh. Doreen Howard: ...Paint Department alone? Lue Sudduth: Uh-huh. P-, Paint Department alone. Everything, it would kill everything. In other word, it just smother it... Doreen Howard: Hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and it was like, uh, a foam comin’ out [papers rustling] of, uh, [chair squeaking] a place that had in there... Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...it’s like a white foam, and what it did, [papers rustling] it smothered everything... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...‘cause the fire won’t burn unless it get air. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: So this is what it, what it do. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Doreen Howard: [59:40] So like Marilyn was saying earlier that, um, it’s, uh, was a very dangerous job if you didn’t know what you were doing and you didn’t have the correct training, and so you said that the training was ongoing... Lue Sudduth: It was, yes; the training was... Doreen Howard: ...the whole time... Lue Sudduth: ...ongoing... Doreen Howard: ...and... Lue Sudduth: ...uh-huh, it... Doreen Howard: ...they – the whole time you worked there, you had to continually be retrained on... Lue Sudduth: For the twenty... Doreen Howard: ...[inaudible 60:06]... Lue Sudduth: ...for the 27 years I worked in there, I would go to school 1 day a month. They would send me to school 1 day a month and 1 week a year. Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: And everything that come in, I would read it, and, uh, I would read up on everything. [background noises] We had some, uh, a thinner, [background conversation] it was 60 O [background conversation] 1. We couldn’t use, uh, uh, wa-, we had to use brass tools to open it up, [background conversation] and anything we did in around it, we always had to have brass screwdriver, a brass channel locks, a brass [background conversation], uh, wrench to open it up, because a spark from, uh, any kind of a tool would set it off. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: Mm-hm. Doreen Howard: Hm. Lue Sudduth: And see, these are the thing that you should read up on, and the main thing was [background conversation] they furnished us the tools. We didn’t have to buy the tools; they furnished us the tools. Doreen Howard: Doreen Howard again. [61:18] Now, during your time there, did th-, did the paint system stay the same or did, did anything ever change as far as the paint or the way in which it was mixed or the type of, uh, chemicals that you used or, or was that pretty much consistent during the whole time that you worked there? Lue Sudduth: The who-, y-, yes, [background conversation] the whole time I worked there, [background conversation] it was, uh, the mixer that you, the m-, the chemica-, [background conversation] actually, the thinner that you use, some of it would cau-, [background conversation] some a the paint would, you’d have to use more thinner in different one, because if you didn’t, [background conversation] if you got it too thin, and when you spray it on the p-, job, on the car, [background conversation] it ran [background conversation] like, uh, water was in it or somethin’. And another thing, some of it was a little heavier, you use it a little heavier, and then some areas you could spray it a little heavier, like on the roof and the, uh, hood and the side a the cars and the trunk. Now, around the doors, you could spray it a little heavier around the door because it would stay a little better. Doreen Howard: [62:32] So each sh-, color had its own... Lue Sudduth: Number. Doreen Howard: ...viscosity? Is that what they... Lue Sudduth: Right. Doreen Howard: ...call it? Lue Sudduth: Uh-huh. Doreen Howard: An-, and, and then each area of the car also h-, had, uh, [background conversation] different, um, paint viscosities also depending on where they were spraying it... Lue Sudduth: Right. Doreen Howard: ...and how much paint they wanted... Lue Sudduth: How much paint... Doreen Howard: ...to go on... Lue Sudduth: ...they want on it, uh-huh. Doreen Howard: Oh. [background conversation] Marilyn Coulter: [62:56] Um, so, um, in that – just kinda movin’ away from how to paint a car... Doreen Howard: Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: ...a little bit, [background conversation] what would you say – I know you said that you had a surprise birthday party. Was that your best memory in the Plant? [background conversation] Or what was your best memory of the Plant? [background conversation] Lue Sudduth: I think probably my birthday, because [background conversation] was the best memory of, uh, the people’s that I didn’t know that knew me. [background conversation] I really didn’t know that everybody in the Plant knew me... Marilyn Coulter: That well. Lue Sudduth: ...and, uh, to find out that you work at a place this many years and everybody knew you and they all gave me a r-, l-, respected me... Marilyn Coulter: [background conversation] Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...because, uh, [background conversation] mostly everyone in there that knew me [coughing] knew I went to church and, uh, [background conversation] knew I was a [background conversation] type a guy [background conversation] that would try to do anything to help anybody that was ask. [background conversation] Wasn’t, wasn’t anybody in there that asked me somethin’ and if I could help’m or tell’m, I did. Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: [64:12] N-, now, you said that you, um, were at church. I know that they had bible study groups and things like that. Did you participate in those groups at work? Lue Sudduth: Yes, I did. I’m s-, mm-hm, I really did, [background conversation] and we, uh, like a bible class during our lunch hour, because our lunch hour, most lunch hour was 42 minutes, and for the 42 minutes, we would sit down in certain area with certain peoples that wanted to have it [background conversation] and we’d have our lunch [background conversation], and while we’re there, because I used to go to different places in the Shop where they had the bible class durin’ lunch hour... Marilyn Coulter: Mm. Lue Sudduth: ...and, uh... Marilyn Coulter: [64:52] They have’m in Po-, Body, Paint, Trim? Lue Sudduth: Everywhere in there, uh-huh; different peoples, and different people was in it. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: And, uh, you, you know, if you, uh, [background conversation] treat peoples right... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and treat’m like you wanna be treated, everybody [background conversation] in different places would somehow or another, you’d get known... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...that this is [background conversation] who he is or who they are... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and, uh, they was just, uh – it was really enjoyable. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. [65:23] So, um, [background conversation]... Doreen Howard: I, I had a question. Marilyn Coulter: Okay. Doreen Howard: Um, Doreen Howard again. [65:29] Um, earlier, you talked about your son and you had a son that, that worked there. Did you, um, encourage you family to come to work for General Motors? Lue Sudduth: I really didn’t. His, his idea was that, uh, he wanted a job and he didn’t wanna go to school. Now, my oldest daughter, she went to school in Missouri, and the youngest one, [background conversation] he, uh, had a scholarship [background conversation] for UCLA, a 4-year scholarship, and when he got to California – but the son that worked there, he took up, uh, aviation and he finished school in that, went, uh, down Lansing Community, and, uh, he wanted a job in there, [background conversation] and I got him, I turned his name in and he come in 2 days after high school and, uh, but the, but the youngest one, since he had a offer for UCLA, he went to UCLA right after high school, and I think it was nineteen-seventy – let’s see, he was born in nineteen-sixty... Marilyn Coulter: 1978. Lue Sudduth: 1978. Marilyn Coulter: I went to school with your son. Lue Sudduth: With [Larell 66:51]? [Rodell 66:51]? Marilyn Coulter: Rodell. Lue Sudduth: Oh did ya? Marilyn Coulter: Yeah. Lue Sudduth: And he went to, uh – so he flew out to California. My wife had two sisters lived in Inglewood and a brother [background conversation] lived up in Baldwin Hill [background noises] and he, uh, didn’t wanna go, he wouldn’t go to UCLA. Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: He wanted to go to USC. And you know, things work out for ya I guess right. I had a first cousin I’d never seen before, till ’98, [papers rustling] and she taught at USC [background conversation] and retired from USC, and I met her in 1998 when my son out there, her son was graduatin’ from high school and she’s up in the stand, and she lives in Sacramento now... Doreen Howard: Mm. Lue Sudduth: ...but, uh, I got to meet her in ’98, [background conversation] and she told me after I told my son we met her that she woulda got him into school free if, uh, she’d a known, but we had never met and didn’t even know one another. Marilyn Coulter: Things happen like that. Lue Sudduth: Uh-huh, and then to turn around, his two daughters started the school that year, see, for smart kids, and, uh, [background conversation], so the one of’m’s [background conversation] 13 now, she’s in the 8th Grade, [tapping] and they told her [tapping] they didn’t have to pay nothin’, and they still don’t have to pay noth-, but they have to transfer’m home, from home back and forth to school/ Doreen Howard: Mm. Marilyn Coulter: [68:18] So now, does your son that worked here in the Plant, does he still work at Fisher Body? Lue Sudduth: He work at General – he, he transferred to Doraville, Georgia... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and, uh, he’s still workin’ at Doraville. [sniffing] He’s, I think he’s got about 28 years [tapping]... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...but he’s, he called and told me that they was gonna close in 2008... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...but, uh, so he’s was goin’ to school for management, so he signed up to go back and finish his schoolin’. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: Uh-huh, and the, uh, the one in California, [chair squeaking] he’s got three degrees. I said, “What, what you doin’ with three degrees anyway?” but he said, “Well, Dad,” said, “the more ya know, the better chance you have.” Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: And uh, he’s been on the force for 15 or 16 years... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and he’s been in different places, and he’s, uh. [recorder clicking] Marilyn Coulter: Couple more. Doreen Howard: [69:13] During your time in the paint mix area, you said you had a lot of, uh, hours of free time. Was there anything in particular that you did during that, that time when you had, ya know, 2 or 3 hours to do what, what you wanted to do? Lue Sudduth: Well, I’d go take a nap. [laughter] Doreen Howard: Take a nap. Okay. Lue Sudduth: Sorry to put that one there, but. Doreen Howard: First, first order of business. Lue Sudduth: Mm-hm. [laughter] Doreen Howard: Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: Then... Lue Sudduth: Take some time... Marilyn Coulter: ...you’re well-rested. Lue Sudduth: ...mm-hm. Sometime I would take a nap, and, uh, we had places that was, uh, off-limit to this workin’ peoples, and to tell it now, I guess it won’t hurt. We had eight beds in there [laughter] and, uh, I would, uh, go get in the best bed. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: I always got in the best bed... Doreen Howard: [papers rustling] Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and, uh, the guys in there knew me, so and they wouldn’t do no work quiet I’m sleepin’ under there, if I go to sleep, I’d get on the bench. We had a couple flaps, one go on this and one goin’ ahead, and I’d get under and some people would come in to fix a gun or a hose, [background conversation] and he would get on the vice and start openin’ up, and the guy sittin’ there, he said, “What you fixin’ to do?” Said, “I’m fixin’ to repair this hose here.” [background conversation] [tapping] He said, “No, not yet.” [thumping] He had to ‘bout [laughter], ‘bout 150 feets, see, he have to go up to the other end. He said, “Why?” He said, “Lue asleep under there,” and the, they knew who I was, so they’d just goin’ up th-, I didn’t even know they was in there. Come in there, repair the gun, [clicking] do the same thing, he’d say, “Lue asleep under there.” And, uh, [background conversation] I had a friend work at Olds’ and he come in here lookin’ for me for at least 15 or 20 years [background conversation] and never found me. [laughter] I would either be [background conversation] up on the floor [background conversation] and, uh, [background conversation] [background movement] we had, uh, [tapping] what ya call a 55-gallon, uh, call it urethane. [clicking] It’s, uh, what they stick the windshield [inaudible 71:37]... Marilyn Coulter: [Inaudible 71:37]. Lue Sudduth: ...seal the windshield... Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and, uh, [tapping] [background conversation] so they called me in one day and they’re havin’ a meetin’. They was shippin’ back like from 17 to 18 [inaudible 71:50], [chair squeaking] [background conversation] and I forget the price of’m, but it was a heck of a price on’m, and they asked me, uh, called me into a special meetin’, right, and asked me, uh, [background conversation] what about the pumps that pumps it? They had all the millwrights in a meetin’ I was in, and the pump they had in there was what they call, uh, a hydraulic pump, but a hydraulic pump could be any pump, but dif-, this kind wh-, when the pump go down, it pumped the material out, and when it went up, it pumped the material out; [background conversation] it pumped it out both ways, and, uh, most a the millwrights didn’t know what it was [background conversation] and so they had me in there and, uh, the, the, uh, [inaudible 72:38] was in there, the Plant Manager, and, uh, so I, he said that, uh, “They do what?” I said, “Pump the material both way,” and some a the guy, you know, you gonna get some smart guys in there, [inaudible 72:52], “What you mean it pump both way?” and I said, [tapping] “You the millwright, you outta know,” and I told, told’m, I say “The-, all these guys you got sittin’ around here don’t none of’m know how it work,” [background conversation] and nobody said they knew. And there was another guy named [Mike 73:09], Big Mike I call him. So [inaudible 73:12] always got along real good with Big Mike, he was a millwright, and he said, “Lue,” said, “how does it work?” He said, I said, “Mike, there all these guys sittin’.” I said, “What they payin’ all these guys for?” [laughter] “I, I ain’t gettin’ paid for it.” I said, “You guys getting’ paid for to fix these and repair’m and know how they work.” You know, so the Plant Manager asked me, said, “Well, Lue, you know how it work?” I said, “Yeah, I know how it work.” He said, “Well, what – how does it work?” and I explained it to him. I said, [tapping] “It pumps the material both ways, and the material, when you put it on the car, it could sit there for a week on that, ‘round that windshield... Marilyn Coulter: Mm. Lue Sudduth: ...and you put the windshield in it, it’ll stick, but when it’s in the drum and ya open it up and let the air to it, it, it plugs up, it won’t pump no more, the material ain’t workin’, it won’t pump no more. Marilyn Coulter: Mm. Lue Sudduth: So and, uh, they asked me to take care of it. I said, “Take care of it?” [coughing] I said, he said, “Yeah,” said, “We’ll pay ya.” Said, “Anytime somethin’ goes wrong,” they just said, “we’ll, if we call you in and if you stay here an hour, 2 hours,” said, “we’ll double your time; if it’s a holiday, we’ll triple your time.” So and I took care of it for a long time and didn’t have no trouble, but they was sendin’ back like 17 and 18 drums back to the company that they had opened it up and let the air hit it, and when the air hit it, it just ruins it; it wouldn’t pump out. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Skim over. Lue Sudduth: Uh-huh, skim over and everything and it was thick and it wouldn’t pump out... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: And then when they did put on a windshield, it wasn’t, wasn’t, uh, stickin’, it wouldn’t hold the windshield like it should. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: So then when I got ready to retire, they asked me to train three more guys how to do it. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: So and I took [inaudible 75:03] two more guys up there every time I change it, because you had it on the floor and roll it, put on the roller, and you could roll it for a week and it still wouldn’t hurt it, no matter how long you wanna rolled it, and I explained to him that you can’t let the air hit it; you got to make sure you put the top back on it and, uh, keep it flowin’ through the hose [coughing] back in and out [coughing] of the, if it’s a week or weekend. But anyway, these guys that was in there s-, in, when I told’m that, uh, “You got all these guys. What you payin’m’ for?” All of’m looked at me and turned red [laughter]. ‘Scuse me, honey, don’t mean any harm, but the [inaudible 75:47] turned red, wanted to know how I know how it worked. And I told’m, I said, “I read it. You guys do somethin’, you don’t read everything ya do. Ya take it for granted that you know how to do it,” you know. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: So I had read up on it, and then after that, they didn’t ha-, when they sent the, the, uh, drum back, it didn’t have [sniffing] nothin’ in it but a little thinner, you know, to wash’m out. So they, but they paid me, and I didn’t mind it. And, uh... Marilyn Coulter: [76:19] Um, [clicking] [inaudible 76:19] I wanted to know, I know you told me that, um, you still keep in touch with some a the people that you made as friends here, yes? Lue Sudduth: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: [76:31] And, um, what are some a the things that you do [clicking] with, with the people outside of here? Lue Sudduth: Well, some a, one or two of’m, we go to the same church... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and we just go to church together, and, uh... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...we have, uh, a event or somethin’ at church, you know... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...it’s nice to have somebody to talk to and visit. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: And, uh, but a lot of’m that I fish and hunt with have already passed, you know, they’re gone, and but the one that I know now just go to church and do because... Marilyn Coulter: Okay. Lue Sudduth: ...some of’m play golf... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...which I don’t, but I c-, should have... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and, uh, some of’m takes vacation, and [coughing] they, uh, wanna – ya know, some peoples’ll ask you, “How can you go to California and Arizona and stay 6 months?” Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: And so they wanna know how’d I do it. I said, “I just do it.” Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: Because you, uh, you work 35 years and you join nice, us, pay... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and, uh [recorder clicking] – s-, is that runnin’? Marilyn Coulter: Yeah. Lue Sudduth: S-, so, it’s just a f-, f-, uh, few of’m that I do know that’s retired like I am, and, uh, they, uh – I don’t know why they try to live above their means or what, but you know, you can, you can adjust to anything if you’re willing to. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: And so, uh, I haven’t did any kinda job for pay since I’ve been out, and it’s been, see, uh, eighty-, ’89, and this – well, this, be 16, 16 years this month, and, uh... Marilyn Coulter: That’s wonderful. Lue Sudduth: ...it’s good... Marilyn Coulter: [78:21] Now, before you left, I know that you said that you were a supervisor, but were you [clicking] – did you ever get involved with the union activities around the union? Did you have any, um, dealings with the union? Lue Sudduth: Oh, yeah. Marilyn Coulter: [78:37] What types of things did you do for the union? Lue Sudduth: Well, when you go in there, they tell ya you don’t hit a supervisor or you don’t steal. I had a young man that was workin’ when I was a supervisor, and, uh, him and his mother-in-law worked there, and, uh, he was stealin’ wires, you know, electric wires... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and, uh, when I, when I took him to the office, uh, they asked him what was he doin’ with his wires. He first said he wasn’t doin’ it. And he said, asked him, “What, what, what you be doin’ with the wires?” He said, “Wirin’ up my garage.” And that was all I had to do, all I – that was it... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...you know, and they fired him... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and then later on they asked me what kinda worker he was, and I told’m he was a good work. I hate to see him get fired. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: He had a wife and two kids. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: So I told’m I hate to see’m get fired for somethin’ like that... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...because he coulda took one paycheck and bought all the wires he wanted. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: And, uh, but then his mother-in-law came up to me afterward and told me... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...she said, uh, “Lue, I don’t blame, blame you for him gettin’ fired.” Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: She said, “I blame him.” Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: “So I hope you don’t hold that against me that I think I’m, I’m blaming you,” and I told her, “I thank you, but, uh,” I told her, “I just felt like it was bad for him to get fired with a wife and two kids.” Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: And she said, “Well, he didn’t use good judgement.” So I told her, “That’s true.” ‘Cause he coulda, the wires he was stealin’... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...wasn’t worth his job. Marilyn Coulter: No. Lue Sudduth: Mm-hm. But other than that, I didn’t have no problem. I, uh – well, I had one more guy that, uh, he drank a lot. Marilyn Coulter: Ah. Lue Sudduth: And, uh, what I did, I took him in the office... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and didn’t nobody warn him... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and he had 20-somethin’ years there. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: His name was [Hank 80:32], we call’m Hank, and I told him in the [inaudible 80:37] and I sit him and I told’m, I said, “Hank, I got a job to do and you got a job to do.” Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: And I said, “I would, I would appreciate it while your, while I’m your supervisor”... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...I really would appreciate it... Marilyn Coulter: [door opening] Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...if you didn’t go out and drink at lunchtime... Marilyn Coulter: [door closing] Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...while you’re workin’ for me. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: So, and, uh, he got up [clicking] and shook my hand and he told me, “Thank you.” Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: He said, “While the whole while I work for you, I won’t take another drink durin’ lunch hour,” and he didn’t. Marilyn Coulter: That’s good. Lue Sudduth: So and the, uh, supervisor that he was workin’ for... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...before and afterward, they asked me what did I tell him... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...that he stopped drinkin’, and I told’m, I said, “I tr-, I didn’t have to tell him; he told’m. He cussed’m out and then told him, said, “He treat me like a man.” Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: And which I did. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: And said, he “I” – he told’m, said, “I respect that.” Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: Said, “You talk to me like a man and treat me like a man.” But the rest [inaudible 81:46], I mean they really, I felt sorry for’m, you know? They would give’m 3 days off and, uh, a week off... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...because he would drink so much. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: Uh, and, uh, but I think he stayed there long enough to retire, I’m not for sure. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: But other than that, that’s the only thing that, uh, I felt bad about... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...while I was there. Marilyn Coulter: Hm. [82:11] Now, did you, um, did you attend union meetings [inaudible 82:14]? Lue Sudduth: Yes, mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: Okay. Lue Sudduth: Yes, I did. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. [82:18] Did you ever get involved in any of the committees or any things over the years of working here? Lue Sudduth: No, I didn’t. Uh-uh. Uh, I just, uh, when I worked in Chicago, I was a committeeman. I was a, was a welder then, and, uh, I had had, uh, things that happened in that that shouldn’t have happened... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...when I was young and didn’t, didn’t care what I said... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and, uh, would threaten to whoop [inaudible 82:45] while they get in my face, ‘cause I, I was, uh, in a gang, really. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: I was in a bad gang then. Marilyn Coulter: Mm. Lue Sudduth: And, uh, most of us carried guns, and, uh, and I tell people, m-, my mother prayed for me when I didn’t know it. Marilyn Coulter: [Mm-hm 83:05]. Lue Sudduth: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: And, uh, but I, I, I haven’t carried any gun since I been here. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: [Inaudible 83:15] go huntin’, but I haven’t hunted in probably 30 years. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: And, uh, I still have guns, but I don’t use’m for nothin’. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. And now they’re just collectibles, though. Lue Sudduth: Yeah, mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: [83:27] Well, that’s – did you participate in any of the union-sponsored activities, any of the programs, the picnics, or anything like that? Lue Sudduth: Oh yeah, mm-hm. I s-, I still do. Yeah. And my wife likes to go out to [Eagle 83:43], you know, out to Eagle. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: Before that, we was goin’ out to Park Lake, wasn’t it? [Inaudible 83:47]. Marilyn Coulter: Um... Lue Sudduth: I don’t know. Marilyn Coulter: Hollow. Sleepy Hollow. Lue Sudduth: Sleepy Hollow, yeah. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: Out to Sleepy Hollow, mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. All right. [tapping] [83:56] Um, as we, um, wrap it up here, can you say what’s your most appreciated bargained benefit? Lue Sudduth: Fro-, uh, for General Motors? Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm, from as employee of General Motors, member of UAW, what’s your most – w-, what are some of your most, um, appreciated bargained benefits? Lue Sudduth: [tapping] I think with the, uh, holiday pays [tapping] and there used to be they gave us those, uh, extra days that you’d have a doctor appointment, a dentist appointment and get... Marilyn Coulter: Personal paid holidays? Lue Sudduth: ...personal paid holidays, mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: I thought that was real nice. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: You know, the vacation pay, because... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...once, I took a vacation once and I went to Hawaii, and, uh, my wife wouldn’t go, and my youngest son wouldn’t go, so I went with, uh, another couple and their two kids, and, uh, but I had a good time... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and, uh, other than that, we – I used to take – wherever – when, uh, my children was growin’ up, wherever vacation my wife and I would take, I’d always take the kids. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: She didn’t wanna take’m all the time, but I would. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: I would tell her, I said, “No. If the kids can’t go, we don’t need to go.” Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: With three childrens, and, uh, that all w-, always went with us. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: And the one named Johnny, I’d like to leave about 9:00 or 10:00 at night, and wherever I’m goin’, you know, like the next day about 11:00 or 12:00 I’d be there, and, uh, I looked back through the back glass, and the rest of’m be asleep, his little head would be stickin’ up like this in the middle a the glass and he’d read the map for me. He was only about 6 or 7 years old. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: He could read the map, I showed him how to read the map, and he would always read the map and the others would sleep all the way. [laughter] But Johnny would stay awake. I remember once, one day I had a brother that was in World War I, and he lost one a his lungs overseas, and, uh, he lived in Denver, Colorado. So I took my father out there to see him like in, uh, ’77, and I was drivin’ through, uh, Nebraska, an electric storm, and my wife was asleep, and, uh, two a the kids were asleep, my dad was awake, and, uh, it was lightnin’ so bad, ‘cause the lightin’ was just light goin’ back down the highway, I didn’t really have to use my lights, but I left’m on, and I looked back through the mirror, up in the mirror there, there’s Johnny little head stickin’ up right there. [laughter] He was somethin’. And whene-, whenever I get to where I’m goin’, he’d go to sleep and sleep most a the first day. [laughter] But w-, it was nice because he, uh, he paid attention... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and, uh, if the rest of’m were asleep, he was awake. It was really good and, uh, when he got up big enough, they, uh, [inaudible 87:17] follow ya after... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...14 or 15 years old, they won’t go with ya if they, they can. [laughter] But they were 7, 8, about 7 or 8 years old. And then I used to, I had a pickup and I had a camper on the back of it, and, uh, I used to take different guys with me; [Marshall Moe 87:37], [Lewis Thornton 87:38], uh, [Jerton 87:41], and different guys that would go up [inaudible 87:45] with me fishin’. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: I had a boat and I still got the boat. I was tryin’ to give it away and I give it to a guy he haven’t come got it, a 15-foot fiberglass with a 50 [inaudible 87:45], but, uh, gee, I haven’t fished with him since, uh, in the ‘70s... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and, uh, I used to go up there and stay a week. I took’m, t-, two boys and my wife would go once in a while, and, uh, but they’d go up there and go shoppin’, and the daughter, she went once. Anyway, the two boys would go with me. We went up there once with, uh, I think it was, uh, Jerton, and we c-, we come with 92 pounds of bluegills; I mean, a lotta fish. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Doreen Howard: Uh, Doreen Howard again. [88:39] Um, I, I wanted to go back to, um, your time in the, in the Paint Mix Department, and you said that, um, it was quite a hazardous job as far as the chemicals and the things that you worked with... Lue Sudduth: Mm-hm. Doreen Howard: ...and you talked a little bit about the Personal Protection Equipment that you had to wear. Um, did you ever have any problems with other health issues or, or being around the chemicals or did anybody you work with ever have any, any problems associated with being around those chemicals? I know other people that would just walk into the, the Paint, uh, Department, you would get hit with the fumes of the paint... Lue Sudduth: Mm-hm. Doreen Howard: ...things like, um – did ya ever have any, any problems being around the chemicals? Lue Sudduth: No, I didn’t. You know what I did was... Marilyn Coulter: Doreen. Doreen Howard: Doreen. Lue Sudduth: ...Doreen, you know what I did? Whenever I went in in the mornin’, I always had a jar a Vaseline. I’d take it all in my nose real good, up in my nose, and keep it in there, and I’d put on my – sometime I’d put it on a little mask, and, uh, I would put a little grease and my face, around my ears and thing, and, uh, every day I’d do that, and then when I’d come out, we had a room, like you said, uh, off limit to anybody, you know, couldn’t anybody come in, and we had coffee and newspaper and radio, [inaudible 90:16] had a TV in there, had a refrigerator. [laughter] Doreen Howard: Just like home. Lue Sudduth: Mm-hm. We had a crock pot, had a skillet for, electric skillet, and, uh, when I’d go in there, I’d take the soft tissue and blow my nose and wipe the – off my face, every day, and then we had a trash can with [copper 90:41] and we’d, I’d drop it in there. But the most a the people come in, their nose is dry and their ears is dry and their face, and, uh, they didn’t do, use no protection or nothin’, but I had read in there, like in some a the, uh, reading I had read to keep the Vaseline up your nose, and what that would do, it keep’m soft, and if you smelled anything like that, it didn’t go right in through your nose, somethin’ or other. Anyway, I found out that really, really helped me every day and I never had any problem with it. Doreen Howard: Mm. Lue Sudduth: But, uh, some a the guys, I know some a the guys, like, uh, they would have a breathin’, after they quit, they had breathin’ problem... Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ... ‘cause they had inhaled so much a that stuff, and, uh, I would use the, uh, [writing] they had like a cleaner to rub over our hand, like a soap like or somethin’, it’s kind of a grayish lookin’ buncha, and I’d rub that over my hand and wash my hand with soap and warm water. But that’s the only thing I think that helped me, that I tried to protect myself in there. Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: And I wore long sleeves. I didn’t ever go in without long sleeves. I didn’t wear short sleeves in there. Marilyn Coulter: [92:00] So you exposed as little skin as possible to the solvents. Lue Sudduth: Right, that’s what I did, uh-huh. I didn’t expose it. And I always wore a cap on my head, mm-hm. [background conversation] ‘Cause... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...uh, before I retired, they’ll furnish everything if, even furnish my shoes, everything but my socks and underclothes, you know, they furnish the coveralls, and we got like, uh, five pair a coveralls a week. You didn’t have to go in and put on the same one you had on yesterday. And that, I think that [inaudible 92:31] a lot, ‘cause I never [inaudible 92:35] and my birthday I’ll be 75 years old and I still haven’t had a breathin’ problem or anything. Doreen Howard: Mm. Marilyn Coulter: That’s good. Doreen Howard: That’s wonderful. Lue Sudduth: Mm-hm. Doreen Howard: Okay. Well, um, is there anything that you wanted to, to talk about at all that we have not talked about, um, [background conversation] before we wrap up here? Lue Sudduth: Not really. Marilyn Coulter: There’s only one thing I really want to ask. [92:59] You said that you had a discussion with one of the plant managers about your [ethic 93:06]. You wanna share that? Lue Sudduth: One a the plant manager? Marilyn Coulter: You said something about he knew that you were a good worker or somethin’ like that. Lue Sudduth: Well, he had heard about, yeah... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...one a the plant manager, I think it was the one that died, you know, the one had a heart attack, I forget his name now, but, uh, he said that, uh, he had heard about me... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...but he had never had a conversation with me, and, uh, he wished, said he wished he had got to know me better... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: Be-, because that was a time when I was in the paint mixin’ for 20-somethin’ years, if any color go wrong on the night shift, they didn’t bother fixin’ it. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: They sprayed the cars and they repaired’m the next day, but they had a log upstairs, I was supposed to read it every day... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...but I didn’t. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: I had the two little guys that I was tellin’ you about called me Dad... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...because it was 21 steps to go up there... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and one a them would go up there and they’d come back, and I’d say, they said, “Lue,” – they didn’t call me Lue – they’d say, “Dad,” they said, “It’s so-and-so and so-and-so that they paint was bad,” in the mornin’, and, uh, so when they went up, well, I’d tell’m, I said, “When you go up and read it, just put ‘LS’ – ‘LCS’ on there.” Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: “LCS” on there. That’s my initials like... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...you know. And they would sign it... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and everybody thought I was readin’, but I never [inaudible 94:33] [laughter]. They questioned me about ‘cause I wouldn’t, wouldn’t go up and sign it, and so I told’m, “I ain’t – if you leave it down here I’ll sign it, but I ain’t goin’ up them stairs just to sign that.” [laughter] And they said, “Why?” I said, “It’s too, too many stairs. I ain’t walkin’ up there. I done already come up and down the stair.” Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: I said, “I ain’t goin’ up there to sign that.” I said – and the one name was [Pat 94:54] and [Jimmy 94:55], either one would go up there, they could read it, one of’m read it every mornin’ and they come back and tell me what paint’s bad and I’ll go and fix it. And then there’s a, there’s a time when they wanted a special paint job, I would mix three colors a paint, then I’d put, uh, what they call stones, grind up stones... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...stones in it. You see these car look like get little, just sun shine against it it gets sparklin’, right? Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: That’s a special color. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: And if you get that, it costs you $200 extra just for the paint job. Marilyn Coulter: Mm. Lue Sudduth: I would do that, and, uh, the, uh, well, it was, it was good... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...because I’d take my time and mix it up. I didn’t have to mix about 5-gallon... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: ...and mix it up and they do it and paint, uh, 42 color was red, either 22 was blue. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: They wanted most like with the blue car or the red, and the some a the green. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: They want that in it, and the car do look real good, like the sun hit it just in the sparkle light comin’. Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Lue Sudduth: So I did that. And, uh, [tapping] what else did I do? Oh yeah, and, uh, I was supposed to go through every mornin’ and check the viscosity of all the paint. Marilyn Coulter: Mm. Lue Sudduth: I give that job to Jimmy; Little Jimmy, they call him. Jimmy would go through every mornin’ check that and he’d come back and tell me [tapping] what’s, if they need thinner or paint to it, he’d tell me what’s wrong with it, write on it, the log upstairs, what paint’s bad. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lue Sudduth: And the night shift never fixed it, and they always depended on me to do it. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. [laughter] Lue Sudduth: And, uh, so I would do it, and I didn’t mind. Marilyn Coulter: Mm. Well we really appreciate you bein’ a great worker and a good inspiration to the people around you. Lue Sudduth: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: And I wanna say thank you for givin’ your time. Lue Sudduth: Well, you’re more than welcome. Doreen Howard: Thank you. Lue Sudduth: Yeah, you sure are welcome. Marilyn Coulter: All right. Lue Sudduth: It’s nice to meet you. Marilyn Coulter: [Inaudible 96:49]. [recorder clicking]