Connie Swander discusses her career as a production worker, skilled trades electrician, and UAW Local 602 financial secretary at the Fisher Body plant in Lansing, MI John Fedewa: [0:15] Good morning. Today is August 31, 2005. It's approximately 9:55 a.m. I'm John Fedewa, part of the Fisher Body Historical Team, and I'm here today to interview Connie Swander. Connie, could you please state your name and spell your name? Connie Swander: My name's Connie Swander. C-o-n-n-i-e S-w-a-n-d-e-r. John Fedewa: [0:24] And your address is? Connie Swander: Oh, my address is 6313 Carlisle Highway, Charlotte, Michigan 48813, and my phone number is 543-1131. Area code 517. John Fedewa: [0:37] And your gender is? Connie Swander: I'm a female. John Fedewa: Okay. Connie Swander: Last time I checked. John Fedewa: [0:44] Single? Married? Connie Swander: I'm divorced. John Fedewa: [0:47] Divorced. Okay. Any children? Connie Swander: I have 2 chil-, grown children. John Fedewa: [0:51] Okay. Uh, how 'bout your national origin? Connie Swander: It's pretty mixed. John Fedewa: [0:54] Pretty mixed? Is it... Connie Swander: Um, on my mother's side, I probably am Irish and English, and on my father's side, I am Indian and, um, German. Oh, and I forgot. On my mom's side also, my grandmother is, um, Jewish, so I guess I'd be Hebrew too. I would – my mother's father was Irish and English and my mother's mother was, uh, or is – she's still living – um, she is a Russian Jew. John Fedewa: Okay. Connie Swander: [throat clearing] John Fedewa: [1:26] What date did you hire in at Fisher Body? Connie Swander: The second time that I hired in to Fisher Body when I came in on skilled trades was, um, April 8, 1985. I worked here, um, once before I, uh – I worked here in 1972. I hired in in May. John Fedewa: [1:44] Okay. Where did you work at in 1972? Connie Swander: I started out in Sanitation during a changeover and worked Sanitation sweepin' the line for a while, and then I worked in 3X Trim on the small line... John Fedewa: Okay. Connie Swander: ...settin' seats. John Fedewa: [2:00] Okay. When did, uh – and you said you were laid off... Connie Swander: [throat clearing] [Inaudible 2:02]. John Fedewa: ...back in '72 or... Connie Swander: No. I was actually laid off, I guess it was the end of '72 that I got laid off. Um, I was back and forth, in and out, laid off. And then I finally quit in June of '73 because I had just had a baby, and it was a miserable baby and nobody'd babysit and so I couldn't work and bring her in here too. John Fedewa: [2:31] And when, so – you say you hired in the second date, which was... Connie Swander: And that was in '85, April 8th of '85. John Fedewa: [2:36] [throat clearing] And where did you work? Connie Swander: Um... John Fedewa: [2:39] The second date you hired in? Connie Swander: Body Shop, skilled trades. John Fedewa: [2:43] Okay. So you hired in on the skilled trades? Connie Swander: Correct. Correct. John Fedewa: [2:47] Okay. So where did you get your training? What – actually, what skilled trade are you at? Connie Swander: I'm an electrician, and I served my apprenticeship with Tennessee Valley Authority in Muscle Shoals, Alabama. John Fedewa: [2:58] Okay. So you got your training... Connie Swander: [throat clearing] John Fedewa: ...down in Alabama and then came up here? Connie Swander: Correct. John Fedewa: [3:05] So you were, you were in the Body Shop when you started Skilled Trades? Connie Swander: Right. John Fedewa: [3:11] Okay. That was 1985. What was it like back in 1985 hiring in on skilled trades rather than working here and then going in to skilled trades. What was it like coming in from the street on skill trade? Connie Swander: Comin' in for me, it was a real [throat clearing] shock because I had just, I was just comin' off the apprenticeship program, and I had served my apprenticeship doin', um, substation maintenance, which was all strictly high-voltage [inaudible 3:37], um, the smallest thing we ever worked on, I ever worked on was [13A KV] and, um, so I come in here and see robots and other things. And 'course after I was here about half a day, I thought, "What the hell am I doin' here?" I had to drag up and go back what I know. But because I had a son with special needs and I couldn't get those met in Alabama, um, for his education and I could here and I had already shipped him up here to be with my mom to get him enrolled in school, um, I came up here lookin' for a job to follow him. So I found a job here and so I decided to stay, you know, stick it out and fig-, you know, add another apprenticeship basically. John Fedewa: [4:23] Okay. Were there very many women on skilled trades when you hired in? Connie Swander: There wasn't very many women then, and there isn't today. John Fedewa: [4:30] Okay. How did you f-, how did you feel about that? Connie Swander: Um, it's their choice, you know. It doesn't bother me. [throat clearing] John Fedewa: [4:38] But how, okay, how do the people feel? Connie Swander: The guys really treated me pretty good. Um, they weren't – there was a few of'm that were jerks, but that comes with the territory. But overall, most a the guys were pretty decent guys. And, um, you know, the, the hardest thing was is that because I had never been in industrial-type setting as an electrician, there were a lotta things that I had to learn. So immediately they just figured that I was another pretty face and dumb. That I wasn't, you know, really trainable and that I was like a token. So it took'm a while to figure out that I, you know, knew anything. So they'd shove me in some meaningless jobs, but it all worked out in the end. John Fedewa: [5:29] Okay. Let's see here. When you hired in on skilled trades, you said you were in the Body Shop. Connie Swander: Correct. John Fedewa: [5:33] Correct. Have you ever worked anywhere else in the plant? Connie Swander: Um, yeah. Shortly after I was – I hired in here, they put me in Paint for 3 months. John Fedewa: [5:42] Okay. Was there – that a big difference from the Body Shop, or did you like workin' the Body Shop better than Paint or? Connie Swander: Well I'd like workin' anywhere better than Paint. I don't like Paint. John Fedewa: Okay. Connie Swander: It stinks and it's up there where everybody sticks together. So, um, I was – they – I don't know why they put me up there. They thought that they were gonna give me training for Paint, but I didn't have enough seniority to hold it, you know, so it was really stupid on Management's part to begin, to begin with [inaudible 6:09] puttin' me up there and gettin' me trained for 3 months 'cause as soon as they had a shift in area of preference, I was rolled right back to the Body Shop. John Fedewa: [6:19] So were you ever laid off skilled trades? Connie Swander: Yes. I spent 5 months on the street. John Fedewa: [6:24] First date – what dates was your layoff? Connie Swander: I got laid off on February 13, and I came back on July 13, same year, '87. John Fedewa: [6:32] '87? [throat clearing] Okay, what, what, what do you mean by stick together in Paint? Connie Swander: Paint. Sticky. John Fedewa: Just sticky or that's the people or that's... Connie Swander: No. The paint. Stick together. John Fedewa: [6:54] Oh. Sti- – oh, that's what you meant by stick together. Okay. [laughter] So now when you first – when you were laid off, it was only for 5 months. Connie Swander: Mm-hm. John Fedewa: Okay. So you actually pretty much had a call-back date. Connie Swander: No. John Fedewa: You did not have a call-back date. Connie Swander: No. It was – I was 1 of 40 laid off, and I was 1 of 4 that came back. John Fedewa: So you were actually 1 of a few out of that group that... Connie Swander: Eventually there were 2 more that came back... John Fedewa: [throat clearing] Connie Swander: ...[inaudible 7:11] back after me, but there were 40 of us that were laid off. That was – they had done all this hiring, and they were gonna have all these AGBs out in Trim, and it didn't work out. It was after the big change in '84. And, uh, they hired all these skilled trades people that they thought they were gonna need, and then when push came to shove, they didn't need'm. So they started – they laid off millwrights, um, pipefitters, electricians. Electricians were the last ones to go. Everybody else went before Christmas. And but because Management had some EITs that needed to be tapped out, and if they laid us off before the EITs tapped out, they had to lay them off and they were protectin'm because they were somebody's kids and some real, you know, so they kep' us until, uh, February 13, 13th. I think it was the 13th, or maybe it was the 14th. Maybe it was Valentine's Day we got laid off. John Fedewa: [8:03] Okay. Do you have any, uh, family members who have ever worked here? Connie Swander: Yeah. I'm 4th generation to work here. My great-grandfather retired outta this plant... John Fedewa: [throat clearing] Connie Swander: ...in 1952. John Fedewa: [8:12] Okay. Explain to me what an EIT is. Connie Swander: An EIT is, um, a person trained to be a skilled trades. They don't have the schooling. It's like on-the-job training and you do it for 8 years. John Fedewa: So that's until you actually... Connie Swander: It's an a lieu of... John Fedewa: I guess what I... Connie Swander: ...an apprenticeship. John Fedewa: [8:31] ...wanna know is what, what's the difference between EIT and a journeyman? Connie Swander: Okay. John Fedewa: Like you said, you got your journeyman training [inaudible 8:36]. Connie Swander: An EIT is on-the-job training strictly. They might have a class or two here. I'm not positive but on the outside it's strictly, um, on-the-job training where an apprenticeship program is schooling and training and it's 4 years. EIT is 8, takes 8 years. John Fedewa: [9:18] What was the difference between when you hired in on a – as a line worker and skilled trades? What's a major difference between that? Connie Swander: Well the major difference I would have to say, when I worked here in 1972, people really took care of each other. I mean, it was absolutely a whole different program than it was when I came back in '85. In '85, I didn't see the camaraderie on the line that – because I worked directly with the people workin' the line even bein' in skilled trades – that I did in, in, um, '72. I, it was more cutthroat. Um, I'd get out there and talk to the people about the union and different things, and they'd tell me what the company gave'm, and I'd tell'm "bullshit, my grandma walked a picket line for that. Company didn't give ya nothin' unless the union demanded it." But, um, as far as comparing between skilled trades and production, it's ha-, kinda hard ta compare it. I mean it's apples and oranges. I mean production you're humpin' that line 24/7 so to speak and whereas skilled trades you're not doin' a whole lot unless the line's broke down and then you work until it works, until it's back up, you know, it's, you know, otherwise you're sorta babysittin' the line. But I mean it's kinda hard to compare'm. John Fedewa: [10:48] Okay. When, when did you get – ever get involved in the local union? Connie Swander: Um, almost as soon as I hired in. John Fedewa: [10:55] Okay. What was your first, first part, when you took part in? Connie Swander: I just started goin' ta union meetings... John Fedewa: [throat clearing] Connie Swander: ...because that's, you know, Gramma – my grandmother was very involved in the union, and so it kinda sucked me in, you know? I mean I grew up bein' union. My grandfather was a teamster, and my grandmother was UAW and, and my, um, uncles before they got – my one uncle got hired in ta General Motors, I mean, they were construction unions. My one uncle, my other uncle [inaudible 11;26] nev-, well he hired in but he left 'cause he couldn't stand workin' the line. He was an ironworker, so he was in the Ironworkers. I come out of a pretty much union family so it was a matter of gettin' involved, you know, do something. I had teenagers. I was – ended up bein' a single parent [throat clearing] right after I hired in. My ex-husband now, that time husband, we split up. And so I had teenagers and so it was pretty hard to, you know, take a position. So I just attended union meetings and listened until the kids got old enough, and then my first position as a union member was a skilled trades delegate. John Fedewa: [12:05] Okay. You say there was 4 generations of you at General Motors. Connie Swander: It was my great-grandfather, my grandmother, and then my mother and my uncle, um, both worked for General Motors. Uh, my mother never worked in this plant, but my uncle did. Everybody'd but my mother worked in this plant. And then myself. So I'd be the 4th generation. John Fedewa: [12:29] Okay. Let's go back to – so I guess, uh, let's expand on a delegate works. A skilled trades delegate. Connie Swander: Skilled trades delegate. You go to the conferences for skilled trades and take in the demands, you know, you put the, you're entering the demands that people want for their contract and you hear, you know, what they're offering and bring back. It's pretty much like the big con-, um, Con-Con, you know, it's just smaller for skilled trades. [throat clearing] John Fedewa: [12:59] And Con-Con is what? Connie Swander: Um, where you – everybody goes and they talk about what the new national contract's gonna be about. John Fedewa: [13:08] Okay. Now is, is, uh, where did you go from there? Connie Swander: Um, then I became a trustee, and I was a trustee for 3 terms, which is 9 years, 2 of which I was the chairman of the trustees. And then I became financial secretary for 1 term. I also in between there, um, was a s-, I stopped bein' a skilled trades delegate and then I ran again and was reelected [in there 13:39]. John Fedewa: Okay. So... Connie Swander: I was also on committee as a alternate committee person, but I served as a full-time committee person in all of this. And I can't remember all the years and dates...[throat clearing] John Fedewa: Okay. Connie Swander: ...because of serving as a full-time committee person was because the committee person that I was the alternate for, um, ran and became a district shop and so, and we were second shifters and he was always on day shift and so I'd always have to cover him. John Fedewa: [14:16] So where [sighing] – okay, let's see. Where did you, uh, so you got elected to those positions? Connie Swander: Yep. John Fedewa: [14:21] What was it like bein' a woman in one a those positions? Say as a trustee or as a skilled trades delegate? Or a committee person? Connie Swander: Um , you know, I'm not a real good one ta ask those kinda questions because I try to make it not be any different, you know, and I, I don't think that it was a whole lot different as far as in those positions, um, other than maybe – and I don't know if this was a, because I was skilled trades or if it was because I was a woman – when I was financial secretary it seemed like that, I, hm, I was scrutinized a lot more than I was in ever any position I ever held. John Fedewa: [15:07] Ok. So they treated you okay but, or you felt okay but they t-, they scrutinized ya a lot bein' in those positions? Connie Swander: No, only as financial secretary. I don't think I was scrutinized when I was on committee and I don't think that there was any problem when I was a trustee as far as [throat clearing] as bein' scrutinized. But once I became financial secretary, I feel like that there were a lotta people that, you know, I used to get information, people would come to me and say, "Well this person wants ta know why you're doin' this and why you're doin' that," and I felt like I was scrutinized more than any other prior financial secretaries that I've dealt with when I was a trustee. John Fedewa: [15:49] So were you the first woman financial secretary. Connie Swander: Absolutely not and I cannot tell you the woman's name that was there prior to me but it was enough years ago that most people today don't remember who it was. John Fedewa: [16:03] Okay. So let's go back to skilled trades for a minute. Uh, what makes skilled trades a tight-knit group? Connie Swander: You know, I can't tell ya what makes'm that way, I just know they are. They take care a their own. It's kinda like the police or the fire. It's like a little fraternity. You're part a that group and, you know...It's not as tight in here as it was on the outside when I worked on the outside but it's still there. You know, they still stick together. John Fedewa: [16:34] Is that outside work too or just as an employee of here? Connie Swander: Mostly as an employee. I mean some people become friends and chum, but I mean, that's like, you know, today they're talkin' about all this team build and all this team crap that they got and [laughter] they're puttin' together. And I say crap because skilled trades we were doin' that long before. You know, we would work as a composite crew. If the line was down, you worked together and you got it up. Then when it came, you know, the line was runnin', don't come ta me and want me to do millwright work or pipefitter work and me as an electrician, you know. It's time they do their own job. But I mean, we've always pulled together as a team... [throat clearing] Connie Swander: ...and got the line runnin'. That's all that matters, the line ran and, you know, the job out the door. John Fedewa: [17:24] So was that just, they're all the trades like that or just electricians or the entire...? Connie Swander: All the trades are that way. John Fedewa: [17:33] All the trades are like that? Okay. Now you were sayin' that, uh, you ever been on a strike before? Connie Swander: Uh, hm, a mini strike that we had here when, over the wagons. I mean, I walked the picket line one day. My shift. John Fedewa: Okay. Connie Swander: I mean that was a real mini [one 17:48]. How many days were we out? Three? John Fedewa: [17:57] So I guess, I guess I need to know what a wagon is. What wagon is. You say you struck over that. Connie Swander: The wagon was the break that the, uh... John Fedewa: [throat clearing] Connie Swander: ...they would bring a wagon around and you could buy, you know, edible products off a this wagon that was in all the plants years ago and we held ours longer than most. John Fedewa: [18:16] And that'd been around for years? Connie Swander: Um, as far as I know. It was here when I got here. John Fedewa: Okay. Connie Swander: It was here back in '72 when I was here. [laughter] John Fedewa: [18:26] Okay. How has workin' here been good for you and your family? Connie Swander: It's provided a good living for me. Benefits. Um, you know, all the things that go with bein' a union shop. John Fedewa: [18:41] Okay. Why don't ya, why don't ya expand on the benefits a little bit? Connie Swander: Well I've had good medical, dental, um, prescription coverage. I mean, my daughter had braces. Um, just, you know, it was there. I paid out [throat clearing] a couple a thousand dollars for my daughter's, the beginning a my daughter's braces before I went to work here, and when I came in, I had to pay some co-pays. I don't remember exactly what it amounted to. I mean, she's 32 today and this was when she was 10. [laughter] Connie Swander: So, um, it, I, you know, I don't remember what – I had to pay some co-pays, but it wasn't, you know, I put out a couple a thousand dollars prior to hirin' in here because of the insurance I had and dental wasn't very, well it wasn't all that good. Get cleanings. John Fedewa: [19:39] Okay, Connie, how was – what was the difference between, say, the benefits and your hourly wage in Alabama or say in the South and the – when you came up here to hire in? Connie Swander: It's pretty hard to say the South, but you can say that Alabama for me 'cause I worked for probably one a the biggest outfits and the most prestigious as far as benefits and stuff goes would be TVA, Tennessee Valley Authority's in the South. I mean, that's probably some of the best jobs you can get down there. Um, so I was makin' like $12 as I topped out 'cause I had just topped out for them, um, as an electrician. As a matter of fact, I did, uh, a few months as [throat clearing] they pushed me into a 5th-year apprenticeship because if they would have topped me out immediately, they'd a had to terminate me. There was no job positions opened. Um, they, uh, I was makin' $12.40 an hour, which down there was, that was really a good wage at that time. The benefits were pretty fair for the area. I mean, you know, I had major medical where I didn't have to pay anything if one of us went into the hospital or emergency room. Um, doctor's office. It's pretty much traditional type of insurance. Um, we went to the doctor's office, you paid for that, and you had to pay, um, for your prescriptions, uh, quite a large chunk. And then, um, you'd get some reimbursement. You'd hafta pay for'm and then file and give ya a few dollars reimbursement on'm. So when I came here, um, I got involved with the HMO program because I had kids, and that was ideal because you didn't have to pay for any office calls, you could just take'm in and be treated at the HMOs. At that time, there was no co-pay. Today we do have a co-pay. Um, and prescriptions, you know, there was only a co-pay on prescriptions. At that time, it was $2. So you got any prescription you wanted for $2. So, um, and as far as dental, the only thing I had down there for my dental was, um, they did cleanings, 2 – they would do 2 cleanings a year. And, um, that was about it. Everything else you had to pay for. That was about all... [throat clearing] Connie Swander: ...dental there was. John Fedewa: [22:02] So the difference between there and here was... Connie Swander: Was pretty... John Fedewa: [22:07] ...what'd you think the difference when you hired in here? What was like the wage you hired in at here compared to there? Connie Swander: Well the wage I hired in here was $14.90. It wasn't a horrific couple a dollar difference. Almost $3. But – or 2½. But I mean that part, the benefits were better. The security was better. A course, my job there I as gon-, I would be terminated. They were doin' a reconstruction and I had like, with Tennessee Valley, my seniority was, um, well, 5 years. I had about 5 years in and I as low seniority. I was competing with people with, um, the most, the least was like 16 years seniority. See one a the, it's a subsidiary of the government, and one a the things that worked against me was bein' a female, um, I didn't have any military time. And you got to count your military time as – toward seniority. So any, um, most all the guys had had military time, so they got to use that for seniority. So that gave even – then when I went on the apprenticeship program, there was 12 of us total that went on. There was 5 women and, um, 6 men. No, 7 men. And, um, and all 7 were black. They hadta hire minorities. And so they put on 7 black men and 5 women. And none a the women were black. And, um, [throat clearing] when we ended up toppin' out, I don't know what happened with any a the guys. I don't know if they got offered jobs or not. But I know that outta the 5 of us, only 3 topped out. Um, 2 ended up quittin' in the middle of their apprenticeship programs, and, um, 1 quit immediately after toppin' out, um, because she got married. Quit. And that left 2 of us. Um, Marta and I. And then I quit and came up here, so there was only 1 left. It was, it was a tough job in reality, the substation maintenance electrician jobs were a tough job. The one gal that did top out and quit, she really couldn't do the job. They carried her, the guys had pretty much carried her, uh, 'cause there was a lotta heavy work. And, um, she ended up gettin' married and quittin' and she got on the program because she was some boss's daughter. But, you know, uh, comin' up here, it was a lot easier here than it was in the South. You know, down there, um, I, I got – had a supervisor that came in that I trained under the whole time in my apprenti-, well most a the whole time in the apprenticeship. I was about 2 months in when he came there. And the statement, he didn't make it to me, but he made it to the other guys there that he wasn't workin' no niggers and no women. [laughter] Connie Swander: And the only black guy that we had in the crew had just topped out, and I had replaced him as the apprentice. And he wasn't long and he transferred to another crew. I stayed and made, made it through and topped out. John Fedewa: [25:38] Okay. Do skilled trades respect the line workers here? Connie Swander: For the most part, I think they do. Ya have a few that probably don't, you know, but I think for the most part they do. John Fedewa: [25:52] Okay. How 'bout, uh, friendships. Have you made any close friendships working here? Connie Swander: I've made quite a few... [throat clearing] Connie Swander: ...close friendships workin' here. Some people are still here and some people are gone. Um, a lotta of the close friends I made are gone. Terry Brummel, um, she was probably one a the first real close friends that I made here. She took the first original buyout. She lives in Chicago now. She works, I think, for Nabisco. Um, then there was Roy Hartwick. Um, he's no longer here. He put in 15 years and quit. He's out in California now workin' for a water works. Uh, we still stay in touch. And so Terry and I. And then I, there's Carla Gates. And there was [Inaudible 26:37] who came here, worked here 9 years. She was out of, uh, Fisher plant in Flint. She since went back to the Swartz Creek plant and, uh, we still stay in touch. We got, we were close friends. Um, Carla – she's still here, you know, there's – I have other people here that I've been close friends with. I have a couple of production people that I'm pretty close friends with. Um, I – you know, yeah, I've made friends here over the years. John Fedewa: [27:09] Okay. What's, uh, what's some a your favorite memories about the plant? Connie Swander: Um, it's pretty hard to say. There's a lot of'm. Uh, I guess one a my favorite is, one of'm is Jardo. Al Jardo was an electrician here who, he was an alcoholic [throat clearing] probly still is, I'm not sure. But he'd, uh, drink his Texas tea in the afternoon after lunch. He worked the weld line. He trained me when I – well he actually worked the arc booth. And he trained me. I was on second shift, and he was on days. And, uh, trained me by notes. Taught me how to build, make [whips up 27:52]. And sometimes when we'd get to see each other, uh, between, you know, comin' between shifts. The day shift worked long enough for us ta run into each other 'cause that was line time even for us at that time. And, um, he, uh, he was nuts. And he'd get to drinkin' his Texas tea, and you could hear'm hollerin' all over the plant. And the guys used to pull lots of pranks on him like put him in a barrel and roll him down and aisle and... [laughter] Connie Swander: ...[laughter] just do all kinds a thing to poor ol' Al. Duct tape him. He'd pass out in his chair and they'd duct tape him to his seat and he couldn't get out and go home and you'd hear him yellin', "You sweet sons a bitches," all over the plant. Um, anyway, one a the fondest memories I have [laughter] is I was mad at the time, but when I look back at it, it was a pretty big hoot. We had these 2 bosses, and we went – I went to my boss on second shift and said, "I really need some more training on these MIG guns, woulda send,"– it was during a downtime, you know, and no production was workin' – "will ya let me go to days and work with Al?" And he said, "Well, not a problem." So then Monday – this was like on a Friday – Monday I just showed up on days. I didn't know that I had to clear it with anybody else. [laughter] My boss said it was okay, so I went. I showed up here Monday morning, well Al's boss was mad. "You just can't do this [inaudible 29:24]." So instead a lettin' us work on the MIG guns for him to teach me – that was back when we had the old Cincinnati's, and I don't know if any of you people will remember them or not, but – and they were nasty, oily, greedy robots that, that were hydraulics. And they'd have leaks and there'd be oil everywhere. And all their motors and stuff were up overhead and they were filthy. I mean layered. It's thick, greasy dirt. So he made Al and I climb up there and take putty knives and blower hoses and scrape those motors off with the putty knives, you know, and then blow'm off with the blower. And we were, I mean just greasy black from head to toe. You'd have to take a shower to go to lunch. And Al always went to the bar for lunch and he'd always want me to go and I only went one day because after he had a couple a drinks, he announced – and Al was not probly the cleanest person in the world, but he was, God bless him, a wonderful... [coughing] Connie Swander: ...human being – he told the waitress there that "this is the only sweet son of a bitch ever gave me two blow jobs in the morning" because I had to blow him off with the air hose. [laughter] Connie Swander: I would not go to lunch with him anymore 'cause I didn't want anybody to even to begin to think – she just roared and laughed, but Al was awful. But anyway, um, yeah, that was a whole week but nothin' but grime. On Friday in the afternoon, [throat clearing] the boss said that he could show me, so we'd had, if we had our stuff up there all done, he could show me some things on the MIG guns. But the problem bein' on Friday afternoon was Texas tea time, and there was no time for Al to show me anything on Friday afternoons. So that was probly a pretty fond memory. John Fedewa: [31:28] Okay, uh, how did you get to work? Connie Swander: Drove. John Fedewa: [31:31] Okay. Did you live close to the plant or...? Connie Swander: Never. John Fedewa: [31:35] Where did you grow up at? Connie Swander: I'm originally from out around the Charlotte area, and, um, when I came back, that's where I went back to is the Charlotte area. For a while I lived in Bellevue, so I drove from Bellevue, but that was too far so I moved back slower to Charlotte. So I always drove, you know, in. John Fedewa: [31:49] Did you carpool or drive yourself or...? Connie Swander: No, I didn't carpool. I don't like to carpool. I wanna be able to go when I wanna go. John Fedewa: [32:00] Okay. What did you do for lunch? You already expanded on some a that but... Connie Swander: Well eventually mosta the time go to the bar...[laughter] John Fedewa: [laughter] Connie Swander: ...and have a few drinks with the boys and after work do that too but...yeah. John Fedewa: [32:13] Okay. I think that's...okay. Connie. Ah, you said you had past generations that worked at this plant. Ah, can you expand on those? Did they tell you stories about the plant before you came here? Good stories, bad stories? Where did they work in the plant? Ah, how they felt workin' here. Connie Swander: Um, I guess probably I didn't hear a whole lotta stories. Um, my great-grandfather, I don't have any idea where he worked in the plant. Him and I did a lotta talkin' but I – it wasn't a time when I was old enough to understand that there was different areas in the plant. I mean, I just knew he worked at Fisher Body. He retired in April of 1952. He hired in right after the Fisher brothers took the – it over. He [inaudible 33:02] was, it had originally been the Durant plant. And, um, when it became, uh, Fisher, he hired in here. He came up, he, uh, from Illinois. That's where he was originally from. And, um, he had kids that, um, were up here that had already grown and come up. He was older when he hired in. And I think maybe, um, he had 2 daughters workin' here maybe at that time or maybe they came in later, I'm not – yeah, they had to've come in later because they retired years later. But anyhow, um, he worked here and retired. I don't remember him tellin' me stories much a, about the plant itself. And then at some point in the 40s, which was before me, my grandmother, in the late 40s, my grandmother hired in here. And she was a real hard worker and she really didn't talk about things that happened here in the plant, stories. I mean, she'd have to talk to her directly, but it wasn't somethin' that she told me about, you know, other than that I knew that she did her job. She was very meticulous about doin' her job and very proud that she did her job. And I know when she got ready to retire in '79, they asked, the supervision asked her not to retire and she was a good... [throat clearing] Connie Swander: ...uh, intermittent relief person at that time. I guess they, you know, didn't want to lose her. Then my uncle originally, um, worked at Plant 2, hired in in 1960. And then when Plant 2 went through all of its changes, he ended up here at this plant, at Fisher, and he retired outta here with about 40 years total with, between Plant 2 and here. He was an electrician. And then I hired in in '85. He came over here in '83, and I came in in '85. So the only time from, I think from the beginning of the plant, pretty close to the beginning of the plant opening up that there hasn't been somebody in my family working was from '79 when my grandmother retired till '83 when my uncle came here from Plant 2. John Fedewa: [35:17] Okay. What was your grandmother's job? Connie Swander: She was, she worked in Paint, uh, in [Bond Right 35:22]. That was a part of Paint back then. And, um, I don't know what all she did except for I know when she retired that she was an intermittent relief person at the time of her retirement. I'm sure that she did many other jobs prior to getting there, putting 30 years in 'cause she retired with 30 years. John Fedewa: [35:42] Okay. So what is Bond Right? Connie Swander: You know, I can't begin to tell ya. It's just part a Paint. I didn't work it and sh-, I never ask her. So... [throat clearing] Connie Swander: ...you'll have to ask her that. John Fedewa: [35:54] Okay. What is, what is intermittent relief? Connie Swander: That's the person that gave you your can calls if you had to go to the bathroom or you had to go on medical or, um, if you needed to be took in the foreman's office or t'anything, you know, that was the person that, you know, got you your gloves and took care a those kinda things. Did relief. John Fedewa: [36:15] Okay. Would you want your children to work for GM? Connie Swander: Sure, if they want to. My son would love to work for General Motors. My daughter not so much. She's not – she would work for'm but she's not really factory oriented. But my son would – that's all he ever talked about is he wanted to grow up and work for General Motors. John Fedewa: [36:36] Okay. Let's – who's your favorite boss? Connie Swander: Oh gosh, I don't really know that I had a favorite boss. [throat clearing] I've always been able to work fairly well with most people and so most a my bosses I got along pretty good with. Um, I really liked Dick [Metcoff 36:55] and – in the end; I didn't like him so much in the very beginning. Um, Doug Patrick. Most people didn't like Doug Patrick. He's like the little, you know, big pain in the butt. But I found out how to manip-, you know, get around him and manipulate around him, and he ended up bein' a good boss for me. Um, I don't know, I just, I, [Frizz, Carl Taborski 37:17]. He was a great boss, you know, I, I, you know, I don't know. I can't really pinpoint one boss that was the best... [throat clearing] Connie Swander: ...that I was workin' for the best, you know? They each have their plusses and their minuses. [laughter] [laughter] John Fedewa: [37:38] Okay. I guess if you can't pick a best boss, who would you say your worst boss, one of your worst bosses? Connie Swander: Um, Pat Finch. [Inaudible 37:45]. And I didn't really dislike him, but he made me mad. He lied on me. [laughter] Between him and [Leslie Gladdy 37:52]. Um, bad story. I can tell ya the story. I, um, worked line time. Most a the skilled trades was on three 8-hour shifts. And I always ended up in an area where I was on line time. Well I was havin' problems with the kids at home, and I really needed to be on 3 till 11:30. I had to be on second shift from 3 to 11:30. That way I could be home in time to make sure they were in bed by at least midnight and the house was cleared out. So I'd been off on, um, medical leave because I hurt my leg in here. I got caught on one a the overhead carriers, and I'd been out 3½ months waitin' for it to heal. And I'd lost my job and the art booth because they called me, a boss, one a the boss I had called me and said that so and so would really like that job. And, um, they were, you know, I coulda had it when I came back, and I told'm no, if they wanted it to go ahead and I would go to the, um, if, in classification, everybody hated Underbody, I would go to Underbody instead of makin' him go to Underbody. So when I came back, I went to Underbody. That gave me the 3 to 11:30 that I needed and wanted. And I was out there for a little while and, um, probably the one person that worked for General Motors here at Fisher Body as an electrician that I absolutely couldn't get along with was Charlie Jones, and we did not like each other and, and we ended up bein' partners. So it's not a functional situation. And he would go to Pat Finch and tell Pat Finch all kinds of lies about me. And of course, [throat clearing] I would get mad and because he was a rotten partner, I would do rotten things. And if he wanted to say the, lie and say I was doin' these things, I'd live up to'm, and so I'd do'm just for him. [laughter] [throat clearing] Connie Swander: So they needed somebody back on the front ends, and Leslie came to Pat and wanted me for the front ends 'cause they knew I knew, that's where I had been for a long time and I knew the jobs, I knew how to make the art booth run, I could run the MIG welders and all that kinda stuff. So she went to Pat and asked him and Pat said, "Yeah, you can have her." So he come out and told me that I had to report to the front end sheet metal on line time at such and such a time, and I went and told him no that he couldn't do that to me that, you know, I needed to stay here in the Underbody and would he please just leave me here. And, um, between him and Leslie, they lied and said no, but I really wanted to be, um, on, in the front end sheet metals. And so I was angry and I said some things that were pretty colorful to Pat, such as, "if I had my very own dick, you wouldn't do this to me." And, um, called Committee on him. So the guys the next day brought in, hmm, a dildo for me to hang out my coveralls and go in and tell'm that I had my own dick could I stay now. But I didn't do that [throat clearing] and I ended up back on the front ends on, on, uh, line time even though I went over his head to a higher boss and talked to'm and tried to get it stopped, and I couldn't get anything done through Committee because they had... [throat clearing] Connie Swander: ...the right to put ya wherever they want ya as long as you're in the area that you're in for, which I was, Body Shop. So lo and behold, I went back on line time and, uh, made it the best I could and survived it. But after that, I had little respect for Pat Finch 'cause he lies. You know, I did not, I told him I wanted to be on 3 to 11:30, not on line time. [throat clearing] John Fedewa: [41:47] Okay. Uh, let me ask you, what, what was your most appreciated bargained benefit in all the time you've worked here? Connie Swander: Most appreciated bargained benefit. Oh there's so many of'm. Um, the benefits that I get, the benefits, you know, that, uh, I utilize all the time. Medical benefits. I, I, you know, how do I pick from that? And pay, you know, I make a great wage. I mean who woulda ever thought that a poor white girl from the wrong side a the tracks would make this kinda money someday? [laughter] John Fedewa: [42:28] Well you're lookin' at just the whole package. There's a not a particular one that you utilized over the years? Connie Swander: Yeah, I mean without the... John Fedewa: [42:33] [Inaudible] one a the best ones. Connie Swander: Yeah. I mean... John Fedewa: [throat clearing] Connie Swander: ...it's, they're all great. You know, the UAW is – what I don't like, I can tell ya what I don't like that the, that the UAW negotiated for us is January 7, 1985 date. John Fedewa: [42:55] Okay and, and... Connie Swander: Well that's pushed me down the seniority list many times because I hired in in April of '85, so anybody that comes here, brings January 7th of '85 with'm, they go ahead of me in seniority. I mean I just, it's kinda funny. I hired in, um, in '85 and I was somewhere around I don't know [well 43:16] I was on the bottom of the pack for a long time, but when I figured it out that, um, after I had been here like nearly 20 years, which I've got, I'm goin' on 21 years now, um, I was still in the same position on the seniority list because even though people have retired and whatever and I've been here longer, because of that January '85 date, people comin' from other plants pushed, just held me right there. I didn't really go up or down. And in retrospect, with the amount of electricians we had when I hired in to the amount of the electricians that we have today, I've held just about the same spot. Finally, I've started to move a little bit more, I noticed when I seen the last seniority list. But for many years, I held same position. I couldn't move. And they usedta tell us that it would take 10 years for that January 7th of '85 date to go away, well that's bull crap. It takes 30 when that date becomes non-existent. [laughter] Connie Swander: So yeah, that's the only one I can... [throat clearing] Connie Swander: ...really say that I, I think sucked. John Fedewa: [44:24] Okay. Okay. You said, uh, you were on medical leave for a while. How were you treated when you returned to the plant? Connie Swander: I was treated fine. Nobody gave me any problems. They just brought me back in, put me back to work. John Fedewa: [44:40] So you didn't have any trouble from anyone comin' back from leave? Connie Swander: No. John Fedewa: Okay. Connie Swander: I didn't have any trouble gettin' my workman's comp either. [throat clearing] John Fedewa: [44:50] Okay. Ah, let's talk a little bit about safety. You were injured as a skilled trades person. How has the safety of skilled trades gotten better over the years? Connie Swander: Well sometimes it's so good you can't hardly troubleshoot your jobs [laughter]. John Fedewa: [45:04] Well I'm sayin' say... Connie Swander: [Inaudible 45:07] want ya to lock things out, you gotta be able to have it operate in order to know what it's doin' wrong. John Fedewa: [45:15] Say from 1985 till now. Connie Swander: Oh it's horrendously more. Like I said, sometimes it almost hinders you from doin' your job 'cause they want ya to lock everything out. Well how are you gonna be able to, to see what's wrong if you can't make it operate? If you can't see the operation, be in there checkin' things, you know? Ya can't hardly tell what's wrong. That's why sometimes it... John Fedewa: [45:42] Okay. Explain what a lock-out procedure is. Connie Swander: Where you lock the machine down where it doesn't do anything. John Fedewa: [45:49] Okay. [throat clearing] Connie Swander: Take the air off a it. Take the electricity off it. Hydraulic. Whatever. Power. Whatever kinda power that makes it move. You lock it down so it doesn't move. [throat clearing] John Fedewa: [46:04] Okay. What do you hope for in the future? Connie Swander: Um, I hope that General Motors continues to stay in business and that the UAW continues to represent the people. I hope that, um, you know, that we can keep jobs here in Lansing and that somebody else in my family'll get ta come to work here, like my son. You know, I mean, is that what you're lookin' for here? John Fedewa: Yeah. /kj