Garry Bernath discusses his career as a production worker, union activist, member of the bargaining committee, and UAW Local 602 President at the Fisher Body plant in Lansing, MI Doug Rademacher: Hello. This is the Fisher Body Historical Team. We're interviewing, today, Garry Bernath. It's Tuesday, March 7, 2006, and we are at the UAW Local 602 Frank Dryer Greenhouse for this interview. We will go around the room and identify everyone that will be in the interview. Gary Judy: Gary Judy. Earl Nicholson, Sr.: Earl Nicholson. Cheryl McQuaid: Cheryl McQuaid. Marilyn Coulter: Marilyn Coulter. Doug Rademacher: And I'm Doug Rademacher. [00:29] Gerry, would you please say your name and spell it for the record? Garry Bernath: Garry with 2 Rs, G-A-R-R-Y; Bernath, B-E-R-N-A-T-H. Doug Rademacher: [0:41] What is your address? Garry Bernath: 7677 St. Clair Road, Elsie, Michigan, 48831. Doug Rademacher: And, tell me, do you, uh, tell us a little bit about, [1:02] are you married? Garry Bernath: Yes, uh, wife, Sidney and, uh, 2 children. Doug Rademacher: Two children, what are… Garry Bernath: Two daughters, uh, [Ashley 1:10] and [Rachel 1:11]. Doug Rademacher: Okay. And, can you tell me, [1:14] what is your education background? Garry Bernath: Well, uh, checkered, I would say. I've had a lotta, lotta college. Never completed college. Uh, went, took a year's leave of absence when I was, uh, educational leave of absence when I was at Fisher Body in 1978. Went to college for a year, uh, in and out. A lot of labor education classes due to my involvement in the union and, uh, then I did complete a 2-year, uh, program with MSU, uh, labor concept program. Uh, was the first graduating class out of that when they began that program. Doug Rademacher: Okay, thank you. [1:51] And do you have any military and service? Garry Bernath: Yeah, I did 2 years, uh, in the United States Marine Corps. Doug Rademacher: Can you tell me [1:58] where were you born and raised? Garry Bernath: Uh, St. John's, Michigan, was the hospital I was born in and reside, still reside, uh, lived my whole life in, uh, a small farm community, Elsie, Michigan, about, uh, I'd say 30 miles north of, uh, Lansing. Doug Rademacher: Well, you kinda went into my next question. [2:18] What did your parents do? Garry Bernath: Uh, my father, uh, did a variety of jobs. Everything from, uh, shoe salesman at Montgomery Wards, uh, a now-defunct, uh, department store. Uh, he worked at Consumer's Power, uh, in the late '60s. Back before you had to have a college education to be an insurance salesman, he hired into, uh, to be an insurance salesman in Elsie, uh, with State Farm and worked at that job 'til he was 72 and retired. My mother did a variety. She, she worked in, uh, a small factory in Owosso, Michigan, and then, uh, hired into the school system and was a, uh, head cook in, uh, the E.E. Knight Elementary School for, oh, I think she did that for probably about 25, 30 years. Doug Rademacher: Okay… Garry Bernath: A member of the operating and engineering union. Doug Rademacher: Well, congratulations on that. [3:16] Would you share with us what you did before you hired in at Fisher Body? Garry Bernath: Uh, actually, I'd worked a variety of jobs when I was goin' to school. Uh, worked in a funeral home, uh, Carter Funeral Home in Elsie, Michigan. Uh, then from there, I went to, uh, a company called Eugene Welding. Uh, they actually made the, and welded the racks, the storage racks that you would see in an automotive factory. Uh, I hired in as a janitor but, uh, back in them days, uh, they, that wasn't quite what I, I did. If they needed me on a line in the paint line or loadin' up the, the s, the racks into, into the paint assembly line, I'd do that, which I didn't mind as a high school kid. While I knew it was against the law, uh, they also was, was kind enough to pay me that rate so that was big bucks for a high school kid versus the janitor's, uh, rate and, uh, did that and, actually, that began my, my interest in the union. We tried to get the Teamsters in there, was a part of that to the point of actually, as a kid, [laughter] foolishly ar, joining arms and layin' down in front of semis that wanted to come into the place while we did, I guess what would be phrased, a wildcat strike because we didn't have a union yet, didn't have recognition, but I think it was, like I say, I was an experienced and that stuck with me my whole life. Doug Rademacher: Okay. We're gonna go into the Fisher Body a little bit. [4:47] Would you tell us, why did you come to Fisher Body? Garry Bernath: Well, it was kinda odd. After, uh, uh, I knew, uh, factory work at, at, at my young age, uh, that bein' 18, havin' had a belly full of it from the age of 16, uh, I say, at, at Eugene Welding, wasn't really somethin' I aspired to. Uh, wanted to go on to college and, and get a college education. Uh, come from a large family. Uh, the, the well was dry as my father put it, suggested I join the Marine Corps, which I did and, and for the sole purpose of the GI Bill. Back then, you could get a full ride at, at schools. Uh, they'd pay ya for doin' 2 years and they'd pay ya a monthly stipend for going to school. Back then, it was, I think 410 bucks, and, uh, I would receive that every month goin' to college, so that sounded like a good program. Uh, I got discharged in, uh, July of '76. Uh, my uncle, Joe, worked over here at Fisher Body and, uh, [laughter] he came over after I got discharged and said, "Hey, uh, they're hirin' at Fisher Body." Uh, again, goin' and joining a factory life was not appealing to me. Uh, he said, "Well, I'll bring you an app." And, and even back then, I thought, "Well, who would hire somebody that didn't even bother comin' in and puttin' in their own application?" My uncle, much to my surprise – I said, "Yeah, yeah, go ahead and do that." My uncle, much to my surprise, brought me that app the next day and said, "Hey, Garry, fill it out." I'm livin' down in the basement of my father's, havin' a good time just bein' out of the military, gettin' signed up for college, thinkin', again, that workin' in a factory was the farthest thing from my mind and, again, thinkin', "Who the hell would hire me to begin with if I don't even go in line and, and put in my app?" Filled out the app. To make a long story short, 2 days later I get a call to come to Fisher Body. Uh, several things played into that. My uncle, uh, knew, uh, Jeff – and I forget Jeff's name, but he was one that was, did all the hiring back then, Fisher Body or General Motors I should say. I, it was always Fisher Body to me, probably all ways will be. But back then, Fisher Body hired, had their own personnel people doin' the hiring, not like they do nowadays. And, my uncle knew Jeff and, uh, handed the app. That played a big part into me gettin' called in I believe. And also, back in the '70s after the war, the Vietnam War, they had a big push for hiring the vets, which probably jumped me to the top of the hire list, too, so kind of a strange story. I never even showed my face but, but got a job and, and uh, y'know, here I am today. Doug Rademacher: Well, you talked a little bit about working in what sounded like some factory life there a little bit early on. Garry Bernath: Mm-hm. Doug Rademacher: [7:33] What was your hire-in date? Garry Bernath: Uh, at Fisher Body, it was, uh, September 3,1976. I'll be hittin' my 30 here this year. Doug Rademacher: So, I'd like you to share with us, [7:47] did you have any idea what went on inside Fisher Body from your uncle, or…? Garry Bernath: No, I had, I did not have a clue. Uh, the fact of it is, I, I guess, uh, was, I feel fortunate. Don't even know if I woulda stayed in there, uh, had the, had circumstances been different, but I hired in. Uh, there was a – first supervisor was guy named, uh, Jim Beam, and, uh, he, right off the bat he was one of your old crewcut, y'know, white shirt, rolled up sleeves with a cigarette pack in the, oh, y'know, your vision of a, of a GM supervisor, if you will. Uh, he basically told me, uh, "Hey, kid, you're lucky. I gotta good job for ya. My name's Jim Beam. If you ever forget it, just remember the, the whiskey." And, uh, pointed me to a, a job installin' vinyl tops, uh, on Eighty-Eights, Ninety-Eights, and, uh, we also built, uh, oh, Christ, the, the, the uh, Buick, uh, Toronado, I believe it was. And, uh, that was the job and I stayed on that job until they did away with vinyl tops. So, the point bein', is, is, had I not landed on such a good jo, I don't believe I would've stayed there for the long haul. Doug Rademacher: As you say that, Garry, [9:03] did you have a plan? Where you just comin' in for a reason? Garry Bernath: I had no clue. I, like I say, I was surprised I even go the job. Uh, had a brother that worked over at the Olds, and, uh, y'know. I, I remember as a kid, uh, he was 2 years ahead of me and I remember as a, as a junior in high school, him hirin' into, he hired into Oldsmobile right out of, uh, right outta high school. And I remember lookin' at his paycheck, y'know, then thinkin', "Wow, you got it made," y'know, "no college education, look at the kind of money you're makin." And I really, y'know, kinda thought he died and went to heaven but, again, never havin' a desire to, to, uh – I used to tell the members, uh, when I was a representative there, I said, "Y'know, I'm not here out of a, a lifelong ambition to build Pontiac Grand Ams." Of course, back then it woulda been to build Oldsmobiles. It wasn't somethin' that, y'know, I, and I don't believe anybody really was. I don't, I can't imagine anybody in, in high school sayin', "Boy, what I wanna do for a living is get in there and build, y'know, Oldsmobiles or Pontiac Grand Ams. It was just the nature of the beast. It was a good job, uh, new. It was, y'know, there was always the phrase back when I, in the '70s, uh, that, "Boy, if you get a Union job you got it made." Uh, I heard that, y'know, time and time again as a kid, y'know. You gotta good job if you got a Union job. So, like I say, I rolled into it, landed on a great job and, and, and I'm still there today. Still hold seniority over there. Doug Rademacher: You mentioned you did, uh, vinyl tops. [10:34] What department was that in? Garry Bernath: It would have been in the trim shop. Doug Rademacher: [10:37] And what shift did you hire on to? Garry Bernath: Hired on to first shift. Uh, was actually on first shift probably, well, less than 100 days and then of course got bumped. Back when I hired in, in the '70s, you could figure it took at least, back then, to have the, the worst job in the department, you were lookin' at 8 years to be on days. And, uh, once I got on nights, uh, y'know, my wife was on nights and, uh, y'know, I just got comfortable on nights. I actually never went to days until I got elected to, uh, shop committee and then I got my taste of days other than that first 100 days when I hired in. Doug Rademacher: Now, you just said your wife was on second shift. [11:21] Where you married when you hired in, or… Garry Bernath: No, no, I… Doug Rademacher: …did you meet your wife… Garry Bernath: … actually, I knew her. Uh, we, we met up in our community. She was, uh, from Ovid and I knew her and, and, uh, she hired in, I believe it was in '70, yes, she hired in in '78. And, uh, y'know, one thing led to another [laughter]. Twenty-six years and we're still married. Doug Rademacher: Congratulations. [11:40] Would you tell us a little bit about any other departments that you worked in while you were in the… Garry Bernath: Yeah, I'd, uh… Doug Rademacher: …[inaudible 11:56]. Garry Bernath: …that, that – funny you'd bring that up because that that brings me to the idea of actually thinkin' about quittin' the place. Uh, I, uh, they had a level and, it's called levelin' off. It's a term in the agreement that, if you didn't have seniority and hold a department, you could choose to go out or you could level off. And I, I foolishly, uh, I, I say foolishly I, 'cause I regretted doin' it, but I did level off. That then took me to the paint shop. Uh, there I seen probably the most horrendous job I ever did in that place. Uh, it was sprayin' the underbodies. You literally – they, they put a hood on ya. Oxygen goes to the back of the hood. You'd put covers, alls on. You would tape your gloves to your coveralls. You would tape off your ankles to your boots and you would go in this booth and spray the underbody of the Oldsmobiles as they were going down the line. Uh, it was, it was god-awful, uh, work conditions. Uh, in fact, you couldn't even, it was so bad, you couldn't even talk to your, your, your coworker across the line. There was only 2 of us in the booth; me on one side, him on the other. Uh, and we, and you couldn't even have conversation because of the, the conditions, uh. [laughter] Another example of how bad it was, the supervisor would come in, open the door briefly and write line time on a chalk board so you knew how long you were goin'. I mean, it was just, uh, it was absolutely the worst work conditions I've ever had. Uh, I, I knew I had to do somethin', uh, [laughter] I went to see my doctor and, uh, y'know, told'm I was gettin' excruciating headaches and, and I will admit I, I fudged that a little bit. I mean, it was just, it was so boring, monotonous, rotten, stinkin' work that I, I had it in my mind I was going' to get out of there by hook or by crook. Uh, went to my doctor, told him I was gettin' these excruciating headaches from bein' in the fumes and, uh, ha, had to get out. And, uh, he wrote me a restriction. I took it on into work. Uh, they said, "Well, geez, we got these jobs over," what they called, "the wet deck." At the time, an equally bad job but at least I could have conversation with fellow coworkers and I just hung in there on that. Uh, I used to run what was called the side wheel. Uh, I, I'd run the side wheel until I could finally get the, get back to putting on vinyl tops. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: [14:28] Now, what is, exactly, a side wheel. Garry Bernath: Uh, as the cars went through the, uh, there was a paint prep area, the sealer room where they came in. Of course, the first thing was that god-awful booth I talked about where they were doin' the under spray. Then, they'd come out into a sealer room where they would, uh, and, and, back then, you had a whole lot of women. The fact of it is, before I got moved to the wet deck, I was bein' used as an absentee replacement and there, a lot of the women were in the sealer room back then, uh, for whatever reason. And, uh, they would seal all the cracks in the wells and everything else. And then, from the sealer room, it moved into the, the wet deck, uh, or I should say then it moved into the primer booth where it got primed and then, when it come out of the primer booth, they, you had to wet-sand the entire car. Uh, though the job I had was the worst, 'cause obviously, if you stood up and you could put the, the, the big wheel that they used as a sander, uh, on top of the car, that was a lot less work obviously, but to stand there and hold, to hold the, uh, the wheel and do the side was, uh, more work and less desirable. So that's, that, in essence, is what, what a side wheel was. Doug Rademacher: Well, since we're in the paint department, [15:41 can you share what the environment was? Was there proper breathing? Was there, I know they'd switched over the years to different types of, of ways to draw those fumes... Garry Bernath: Yeah. Doug Rademacher: …and stuff. Can you… Garry Bernath: Well, back then… Doug Rademacher: … [inaudible 15:53] Garry Bernath: …uh, and I'm referrin' to back in the'70s, 'cause I've seen it on both sides. But back when I was workin' in it, it wasn't highly automated like paint shops are today. I mean, you can, I'm told and I've seen, due to my experiences, I've seen pain shops that, y'know, you could roll a bowling ball down it and not hit anybody. They're, they, they've highly automated the pain shops. Back then, they were usin' people with sealer wands, using people sprayin' underneath the bodies, using people to spray the car, uh, y'know, on and on. Uh, they don't, matter of fact, I don't, no – they don't even wet-sand cars anymore. It's just touch-up work if they see a defect or somethin' like that. Back then, they, they actually literally wet-sanded the entire body of the car. Uh, I, y'know, the first thing that comes to mind was the place. It just stunk because you had, had them fumes you had to deal with, and, uh, that was, I guess, my first reaction to it, is, y'know, "Pee-U! Y'know, it just stunk. [snapping] Doug Rademacher: Marilyn Coulter. Marilyn Coulter: Uh, Garry, in working in the paint department, [16:59] was it summertime or wintertime or did that make a difference on the fumes and the, did the heat make a difference at all workin' out there? Garry Bernath: Yeah, the, the heat obviously, because of all the ovens. Back then, they had the paint ovens that baked the paint and everything else. Uh, uh, it was worse, I mean, almo, it was terrible in the summertime and, and the smell seemed to get exasperated in the summer. I mean, they just in, intensified in, in the summertime. I, I, I was happy wh, when, 'cause I was in there during the summertime when I leveled off and I was happy, uh, I shouldn't say happy, but it, it didn't bother me much going to the wet deck because that was the coolest spot in the paint shop. It, y'know, you'd have a little, little horseplay and spray each other with paint and, or with, excuse me, with, uh, water so – but no, it was, it was much worse up there in the summertime than in the winter. Marilyn Coulter: Well, you bring forth a couple questions. The other one I wanted to ask, [17:52] when you talk about the environment and the heat and all this apparatus that you had to put on, how did that work for your breaks and your lunches and how did the fumes affect you eatin', all that stuff? Garry Bernath: Uh, you just stepped out of the booth and, of course, you'd see, y'know, you'd see the guy strollin' around because he had everything. You, you'd un-tape your gloves and eat your sandwich 'cause you couldn't, you didn't have enough time, with the break times allowed, to get out of your – matter of fact, even at lunch I didn't, didn't disrobe, uh, to get outta that stuff. You just, you just had it on and took your gloves off and your hood off and, like I say, back then they just pumped oxygen to you to help you breath in there, so it was, it was miserable. Doug Rademacher: Doug Rademacher. So Garry, you're first hired in. You heard about the place from your uncle. You end up in the trim department. [18:45] Tell me about the people. Your first, say your first day, your first week, what didja think of building automobiles? And, uh, share'… Garry Bernath: Well… Doug Rademacher: …share somethin' abou, share a little of that. Garry Bernath: Back then, and it, it probably had a lot to do with, again, y'know, certain things just kinda direct ya in life and, back then, I was, I was, uh, I guess amazed, y'know. I spoke my little brief experience at Eugene Welding with the union. Uh, when I hired in there, uh, as good as that job was and I'm a young man thinkin', "Man, I just died and went to heaven," 'cause , y'know, installing vinyl tops, you, not every car was a vinyl top. Uh, we had, back then, I think 6, 5 or 6 teams of 4 people to a team to install the vinyl top. Uh, it, it was a great job I thought. Uh, those, the senior members didn't think so and was, had committee calls in to their, to their committeemen. Jim Shock was the guy's name I remember, a big ole guy. Uh, he came up and, uh, y'know – I thought, as a new hire, I would join my fellow brothers [laughter] in complaining about the job and those guys knew enough about it and they took care enough of, of the younger workers then that and, I hope they still do now, I don't know. But they, they said, "Hey, listen, the last thing we need is a new hire puttin' in a committee call." Because the company will say, "Hey, look! Even he's got a call in and he don't know what the hell he's doin'. He's just been here, y'know, X amount of, 90 days or 30 days," whatever the hell it was. So, uh, they, they just basically said, "No, Garry, you're not puttin' a call in. You, we'll take care of this." And, and, and that, y'know, I mean, it was, it was a good feeling knowing that these guys had it figured out and, and I was lookin' forward to, y'know, makin' the job even, even better. And, uh, they won that grievance and, uh, won the 78 and [laughter] it ended up happening to where they had people that sprayed the vinyl tops, uh, they settled it that, rather than the team goin' over and gettin' the vinyl tops, the people that were sprayin' the vinyl tops delivered'm to the car and put'm on the car and then we just stepped up to the car. That was the resolve of, of, of the 78. So, uh, y'know, it, it was, it was, I, I tell you, the guys, everybody I worked with looked out after ya. I mean, it was a true brotherhood, if you will. Uh, there wasn't any, at that time, there wasn't, uh, any women on the day shift that did vinyl tops, but there was on night shift and, uh, it was, y'know, I, it left a good feeling. And the people, I've, I've said it time, the people were the greatest part of the job. I mean, they made it, they made the boring, monotonous work bearable. Uh, without the people, uh, I don't think I woulda hung out. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: Now, you said the word "78." [21:41] Now, can you share, obviously you'd started out in the'70s when you hired in, but what is a 78 that you're referring to? Garry Bernath: Oh, a, a 78, paragraph 78 of the, uh, national agreement is a work standards grievance that, uh, y'know, each member over there would be able to say, to call their committeeman and, and complain about havin' too much work and it was called the 78. So, after paragraph 78, so it was, it was a work standard grievance that, uh, any member could raise his hand and say, "Hey, I think I got too much work, boss," and get the Union involved and, and take it from there. Doug Rademacher: You talked a little bit about the people bein' the greatest part of goin' to work. [22:23] Can you tell us, was there any particular initiations for a guy like you or for the new, the new blood? Garry Bernath: No, I, I, uh, you wouldn't have known, I mean, if there was, uh, you know. No, I wasn't treated any different than anybody else. Uh, uh, when Friday rolled along, I got invited out. I, I guess I knew I belonged with the ole boys. When Friday afternoon rolled along, they always, uh, went out to lunch and had a, had a beer or two and I, it just felt good. Here I am, uh, y'know, 20 years old and these older guys said, "Hey, come on, kid. Let's go have a beer." And, uh, I guess I knew I, I fit in at that point, but sure, surely goin' out on a Friday afternoon and, and havin' a beer with the guys. No, I, they, they treated me just as good a, as anybody, as one of their own's that been there forever. E, like I say, even to the point with the story I just shared, that they were lookin' out for me and in turn, lookin' out for themselves, uh, because they were real clear to point out that, "We don't need no new hire complainin' about the work load." Doug Rademacher: Can you tell me [23:30], do you remember a person in particular that taught you your job or that showed you the ropes? Garry Bernath: Yeah, uh, Ray Fish, Don Rathburn, uh, geez, [chuckle] the years have slipped. Uh, yeah, there was, there was a host of'm. Uh, when I got to nights, because I was on nights for so much longer, I, I bonded with those guys more than I did the brief time I was on days, but those guys that were on days, uh, as I, uh, I guess rose in the ranks of the local union, uh, always stayed in touch with'm, considered'm good friends and, and, and still bump into'm, uh, at times, at, at farm auctions and different events that, that, uh, I go to. Doug Rademacher: You're sharing that, that continuation of friends and stuff that you've made. [24:21] Didja hire in with a group of people or where you hired in individually? Garry Bernath: Well, actually, the day I hired in there was 7 of us hired that day and it was, y'know, uh, you, you almost felt like you were at a cattle auction, y'know, uh, uh. I, I spoke of Jim Beam. He, I remember him walkin' in. They walked me out. Uh, then he was, he was called the general, uh, supervisor. I remember settin' in the general supervisor's office and, uh, eh, Jim Beam walked in, "You, you, come with me." And that was it. So… Doug Rademacher: And you… Garry Bernath: …yeah. Doug Rademacher: …and you followed like a sheep. Garry Bernath: Yeah. I followed'm on, on out to the vinyl top area. Doug Rademacher: Okay. Um, let's, uh, since you did spend [25:07] how many years in the body plant? Garry Bernath: Uh, well, I just went on, uh, international staff 7 years ago, so I, I, from '76 to '99, so 23 years, I guess. Doug Rademacher: [25:23] Did it ever amaze you, the fact that certain people hired into the plant, went to their job, got their paycheck, and never changed jobs? Did you… Garry Bernath: Oh, yeah. Doug Rademacher: …ever think about those people? Garry Bernath: Yeah. My uncle Joe! Uh, even today, as I, I argue with corporations across the country, uh, I use my uncle Joe's story, uh, because he, [chuckle] uh, just amazed me. As I was on my cupcake job with no seniority, I'd walk up and see my uncle Joe who, at the time, had 28 years' seniority when I hired in and, uh, he was boltin' in seatbelts. And I'm thinkin', "My God!" Y'know, I mean, just a miserable job to where he had to turn into the car and, y'know, then you had a big, heavy ole gun with a rod and it just goin' "rrr-rrr-rr" 'til you locked the seatbelt bolt in, and, y'know, that'd be full of filler uh, or, uh, uh, not filler but sealer and stuff like that. And I thought to myself, y'know, "Uncle Joe, ya got 28 years." I'm settin' down there workin' on every 6th job when this vinyl top comes along, which would relate to probably about every 12th job, and he's in there every, every car boltin' in seatbelts and it just amazed me, you know. And I talked to him and, y'know, at, at times, he was the kinda worker that just came to work and kept his mouth shut and, uh, the supervisor would reward him. There was a switching job where cars got marshalled. Uh, my, my uncle Joe never put an app in for the, or a transfer in for the job or anything else but, every once in a while, the supervisor would kinda reward him and he'd go up in control, which was just pushin' buttons as these cars got marshalled through and then sent on over to the Oldsmobile. And, y'know, it, to him, that was his reward and, y'know, uh, ya, and it's, it's funny because, y'know, as I grew up in the business, I, I always wondered why no one ever complained that my uncle Joe got that job on occasion, uh, y'know, because as I come through, I understood, y'know, absentee replacement workers and everything else. But back then, it was, well, it, it, it appeared to every, uh, worker in the area, well, of, I heard it that Joe never complains and that's just what they did back then. Uh, nobody raised a stink about it. But he retired when, the day he retired he was boltin' in seatbelts and, and, if you see the guy today [laughter] you, you, he walks, y'know, with a, with one shoulder hanging down and, and I know why he walks the way he does. It was, it was [chuckle] years of boltin' in seatbelts and turnin' that, that, today, he, y'know, I know why he walks that way but the average Joe wouldn't. So, yeah, I, it, it always amazed me. And, and y'know, and, not only my uncle Joe. There's a whole host of people that was, would do jobs that, uh, would've caused me to leave the place. I, I woulda quit the place. I [chuckle] I'm thinkin', "How can you do this day in and day out, day in and day out?" But, uh, I guess ya just get in the groove, you know? And, and havin' said that, I certainly wasn't blessed to have the best job my whole career. Uh, there were days that I struggled with, uh, y'know, doin' that and, y'know, I, I guess I self-medicated, y'know. I mean, I, I got through it. Doug Rademacher: Right. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Doug Rademacher: Yeah, you had said you did the job down in the, uh, in the paint department where you were… Garry Bernath: Yeah. Doug Rademacher: …taped in and so you had your days of those jobs and you just kinda look back as you, uh, were able to get back to your other job that somebody did that every day. Garry Bernath: Oh, yeah. Well, and I always thought, y'know, the transfer process in, in my earlier days as a committeeman in there, I would always, y'know – a lot of people would call and complain about, y'know, and I, I would always tell people, "Hey, this thing works," y'know, "if you, you need help puttin' in the transfer, I'll help you." But, y'know, that was really the light at the end of the tunnel for people that said, "Hey, I want off this job. And, uh, y'know, and, and it did work. Doug Rademacher: Did you, uh, you worked there during a number of name changes. It went from Fisher Body to the BLC, Buick-Old-Cadillac group. We closed down in the end of this last year as Lansing Car Assembly. [29:42] What's your, uh, what's the building to you? Garry Bernath: Uh, it, it's always been Fisher Body, uh, y'know. I started talkin', y'know, I hired in to Fisher Body. It'll always be Fisher Body. I used to, uh, I wrote a lot when I was in elected positions and, and I would let the membership know, y'know, while some, uh, ex, executive might, uh, be in the sign business and they're enriching him, this place will always be Fisher Body. And, and, and as the place changed names and as that kinda stuff happened, I believe, uh, people started losin' identity with – I mean, to me there was always a pride that I worked at Fisher Body and, and, y'know, I could talk for hours on, on why that was. And it was based on, probably my involvement with the Union and knowin' what working conditions and what things were like across at the Olds. I mean, there was a pride in Fisher Body. Uh, uh, I, I was always, I, and, and still believe it to this day, that the Union was stronger at Fisher Body than it was anywhere else in town. Uh, we were the first, y'know, UAW local in town and there was just a level of pride with Fisher Body. And, and, y'know, I always, uh, I, I, I st, I carry that to this day. And y' know, I, I'm an international rep today and you'd be surprised the number of offices I step into that have Fisher Body memorabilia in'm and that just tells me there's a whole lotta people that feel the same way I did about the pride of Fisher Body to, to, to they're takin' it to their new offices down at Solidarity House and havin' Fisher Body memorabilia in'm. So, I, it, it was just a pride I think that I certainly had and, and y'know, and it wasn't just because, y'know, I – I mentioned my uncle Joe. I had another uncle, my Uncle Bob, uh, worked in the place and retired out of the place and, uh, he worked in the body shop. And, yeah, I mean, I don't know, there was just a pride in Fisher Body that I think they've, we've lost that identity and, and that's too bad. Doug Rademacher: Marilyn Coulter. Marilyn Coulter: Garry, I'd like to take you back to night shift in the trim department. I know you said you had a lot of friends that still extended and, y'know, a lot of times we call each other, like, union brother and sister, so it's… Garry Bernath: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: …kinda like family. And you bein' a young man and a young family man and working on nights, [32:05] how did young people make it through workin' night shift? Can you take us through what it was like workin' in the plant, being young? Garry Bernath: Uh, it was, uh, y'know, earlier in my career and I'm talkin' the '70s, early '80s, y'know, I, I – I didn't start a family until I was, uh, uh, I, actually, I had, I was married, I guess, 8 or 9 years before we started a family. So, I didn't, I didn't have any struggles that, that they did the, not bein' able to be a family, events, and everything else. Uh, but I'd hear it, and, and the beauty of it was, back then, uh, th, there wasn't th, the competition or the competitiveness, uh, in foreign car builders that there is today. Back then, it was [chuckle], it was easy enough if I didn't want to, to work that day, I, I mean, there were literally times I would get into work an hour early to run into the, into the supervisor's – back then, they had desks, they didn't have offices or anything. They had desks right out in the area and there was a sheet of paper that, if you wanted the day off and you were the first one to put your name on that list, there was a good chance you'd get the day off. And, uh, y'know, they were much more understanding, y'know, there were, y'know, uh, back then and I, I felt it was going to move to where we'd have a day off, uh, huh, a day off a month. We had these things called PPH days, which stands for Paid Personal Holidays and it was almost, I, hell, it was better than Christmas. The, I, I remember in the shop the day they passed out, the supervisors – you were more excited about getting your PPH slip than you were your paycheck that night because you then knew what days you were gonna have off, uh, the next year. And it was, y'know, it was neat things we had at, at that time. Uh, unfortunately, they're gone now, like I say, due to, due to how competitive the industry's gotten. Uh, but, y'know, most, be, because of the extra manpower, people were able to get the night off and, and, y'know, it wasn't shuttin' down production but, y'know, we'd have an area of, of, of, say, 30 to 35 people in the supervisor's area and it was nothin' to have 5 or 6, uh, y'know, they call'm everything from extra-board, utility, absentee replacement over the years. Back then, I think they were called extra-board. There was nothin' to have 5 or 6 extra-board people in a supervisor's area for absentee replacement, vacation replacement, whatever the case may be. So, y'know, yeah, I guess people were able to get out then, uh, unlike, uh, what I've seen as my career has went on. They, you certainly, I, I doubt like hell if there's a sign-up sheet at a supervisor's desk anymore to get the day off, uh, so… Marilyn Coulter: [34:51] What about on those nights when you couldn't get out but you were on a team that worked every 6th job? Did you read, listen to music, play cards? What didja do? Garry Bernath: Oh, yeah. Uh, we, uh, we actually, uh, we enjoyed gamblin'. Uh, we did quite a bit of gamblin' back in the vinyl top area, y'know. And there, there was a lot of neat things, uh, yeah. [Andy Graham 35:09], Michelle Penfield, uh, [chuckle] we did a lot of things to, to break the, uh, the monotony, and, and, y'know, I mean, uh, [chuckle] the cars would come through an oven and I remember Michelle and Andy, it wa, we would cook in this oven as the cars come through. We had, we made little metal shelves and, and every time, y'know, some quality thing would pop up, why, they would say, "Oh, it's them, it's the damn cookin' back in the ovens." Well, it only came through the oven there to, y'know, heat up the car so the glue would adhere to the top. Back in further, where they came through the paint ovens, I mean, come Christmas time and Thanksgiving time, we were bakin' hams and we were, we were cookin' turkeys back in those, them were the paint ovens. And the guys that worked there and the, and the ladies that worked there, they, I mean, it was, uh, it was, it was like a [chuckle] a whole different recipe that they knew how long it had to be in them ovens, where the hot spots were in the ovens. Uh, we used to, I, we'd go out at lunchtime and buy a bunch of polish sausage and onions and cut'm up and put'm in that oven before the, as they came out of, out of the paint shop and, and we were chowin' down. Like I say, we gambled a lot. Uh, we used ta, during our, our, when we didn't have a job goin' on, and everybody helped everybody out, if they seen you were on the street gamblin', why, somebody else would step up on the job and you'd catch'm later, but we used to pitch nickels against the wall and there might be 5 or 6 of us pitchin' these nickels against the wall and, uh, of course, whoever had the nickel closest to the wall scraped up the money. And that elevated to quarters an, and everything else. So, it was, y'know, we just did things ta, like I say, uh, forget, y'know. And I, I can't emphasize, even today, y'know, I mean, they're, while, y'know, the auto workers get beat up that they make too much. I mean, y'know, it, I, I challenge people to stand on that assembly line and do that, not for a day, but do it for weeks and months, and, and, y'know, the boring, monotonous work that is involved in assembly line work – you gotta find some relief. Uh, I fought it back when they were sayin', y'know, the silly stuff and, and thank God I never did, uh, I never did witness it. Uh, again today, because of my job, I see it in factories where newspapers are banned, magazines are banned and, and even when I had the worst jobs, y'know, because I wasn't always on vinyl. I had bad jobs at trim shop. Uh, even when I was on them, you had the, the little bit of a reprieve by lert, goin' to a book or to a paper and bein' able to only read a, a, maybe a paragraph but you'd be able to catch up and, and, at least break the mindset of, of, y'know, the boring and monotonous work. So… Doug Rademacher: Earl Nicholson. Earl Nicholson, Sr.: Um, Garry, as a new hire and, um, as you progressed, uh, over your years, uh, in the factory, [38:10] what, uh, what was your relationship with skilled trades and how did you interact with'm? Garry Bernath: [laughter] Well, I could, I, my, uh, I guess [chuckle] uh, my first experience with trades was when I got elected full-time district committeeman in the trim shop, and, uh, they re-districted, which, uh, the shop committee would, would name what a district was gonna look like, so you had roughly 250 people that you would represent as a district committeeman. My first experience with'm was, when they re-districted, there was a mindset then to try to get everybody a little bit of overtime that was in a union, a full-time union job. Well, in order to accommodate that desire, uh, they give us, the, uh, [chuckle] the waste water treatment plant and the power house and that was my first experience. I'm a production worker. I go out and I take a committee call from, uh, a person in the power house and they start spillin' out all this doublin' back and that they were losin' money and on and on and on they went and it, it had nothin' to do with the workload. I, I, I certainly witnessed – it, it seemed like they had a good job. Uh, I used to, one of our past presidents, Al Presley, or Alvin Presley, why, he, uh, he changed lightbulbs in the place and I always used to hoot on him. Uh, I wasn't shy when I was on the assembly line of, of, uh, abuse'n clipboard jobs or whatever the case may be [chuckle]. Uh, I was probably more radical and as these people went by, I would holler out, "Hey, get a job," y'know. Because I knew I was, uh, uh, I affectionally call it chasin' the chain. I knew I was, I was chained to that [chuckle] line and I wasn't goin' nowhere but I'm watchin' these people, Al was one, y'know. I'm thinkin', "What do you do?" "Well, I change lightbulbs." And I thought, "My God! What a great job! I'm bustin' my ass on this assembly line and you're ridin' around in a cart, y'know, maybe changin' a lightbulb a day, I don't know." [chuckle] It didn't look like he changed very many to me. And, and when I got out and I represented them workers in the power house, I was kinda half-assed insulted that, that they were s, so damned worried about their paychecks and, and the power house, I mean, it almost looked like you were steppin' in a cafeteria back then. They had great work environment, uh, and I guess, I, I guess maybe I was envious but I, I never really had the desire to go into trades. I mean, there was a program. Today, lookin' back, I probably regret it because, y'know, as you see what's happen, the, the structural change goin' on in the industry, uh, to, to have a trade would, is invaluable versus, well, geez, I, I worked in a factory for 20 years as an assembly line worker and, and, if the world falls to pieces, what do they have? Where the trades people actually had a trade where they could go out and do it but, probably, I, I guess in a nutshell or, uh, just, maybe jealousy, maybe pissed off. But they, they certainly didn't seem like they, they, they carried their, their weight and, I'm not, y'know, not all of'm. But, uh, another example as a committeeman, uh, I used to have, uh, members in the trim shop complain that the fan up on the roof, uh, would be off every time they came in, obviously in the summertime and, uh, I'd get committee call every, y'know, the beginnin' of the shift, people are complainin' about the, the fan not bein' turned on. Well, you had to go up into a, uh, uh, I guess a power house or whatever the hell it was up on the roof to turn that fan on. And, and the electrician finally, after I raised so much hell, went to the skilled trades zone at the time and raised hell about this, y'know, turnin' this fan on. The tradesman came to me and said, "Hey, listen. Why don't you have your guys go up and, and turn the fan on." Well, that was easy enough. I went to, uh, to the repairman at the time that was in the supervisor's area and the repairman was more than willin' to go up there because he didn't, obviously, he didn't want to relieve the people on the line as they were bitchin' to me about the fan not bein' on because I would, obviously, get every committee call and, so he said, "Hell yeah, I'll go up there and turn that thing on. It beats the hell out of, y'know, relievin' all these people for committee calls. And it wasn't until they started cuttin' back on electricians that the same zone committeeman… Marilyn Coulter: [chuckle] Garry Bernath: …came to me and the same electrician that, at that time, couldn't be bothered with goin' up there and turnin' that fan on, said, "Hey, bull shit! That's my job. They're, production's doin' my job and we need to change this thing around." And, and again, that mighta been one of the mindsets that, y'know, "Well, what are we, chopped liver here on production workers?". And, uh, so, I don't know, half of it, like I say, was jealously, half of it was I was pissed off 'cause they thought they were some sort of prima donna. Uh, and over my years, y'know, the mindset, I used to battle with these guys that the mindset was – I, I had one particular, uh, the mindset was that, "Hey, if I didn't, don't put my shoes on today, General Motors makes money." Uh, that, y'know, they thought as long as they were settin' on their butt doin' nothin' that it was okay and meanwhile, production – I mean, obviously, you can tell I was a production worker, still think like a production worker, always will, but it just always pissed me off, and again, whether it was anger or whether it was jealousy I couldn't quite tell ya, Earl. [laughter]. Earl Nicholson, Sr.: So, so now, so now that we, we've gone through that, I'll have to ask you the question [43:48] has skilled trades ever done a government job for you? Garry Bernath: Uh, in the plant, when I was in the plant, no. Since leavin' to go with the international, yeah, I've, uh, I've had some beautiful, uh, I, I've had some, I've got some beautiful things. I got this clock that the skilled trades workers in Anderson, Indiana, made me that, that, after I got done negotiatin' their national agreement, that they gave me, that, uh, it is just beautiful. It's all outta stainless steel. It's got, uh, "UAW International Rep - Garry Bernath" on the face of it, all, y'know, however they cut it into it, probably with lasers or somthin', but yeah, I've, since I've been on the job as an international rep, I've had several government jobs and, and they, there were always tokens of appreciation but, in the plant, no. No. Doug Rademacher: Marilyn Coulter. Garry Bernath: And that was probably 'cause they never asked for one. Marilyn Coulter: Um, Garry, what I wanted to ask you was, that, now since we talked a lot about your union activity and you on the line and you were vocal about certain things, what I wanna know is a couple things. Number 1, a two-part question. [44:58] Number 1: What made a good supervisor for you and what made a bad supervisor? But then, the other thing about it was what got you to sayin', "I wanna be union. I wanna get active in the Union and how that happened. Did you… Garry Bernath: Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: …and your friends do it? Take us on that journey a little bit. Garry Bernath: Yeah. Uh, I guess to the, to the tune of what makes a good and a bad supervisor and it ties into why I got involved [chuckle] with the Union, uh, a, a good supervisor always stood up for his employees and, and I've seen, I've, I've seen that through, through my entire, I see it today. Uh, they always would, would stand up and, and, and take care of their, their, their employees. Uh, whether it be that night off I talked about or whether it be, y'know, "No, I'm not gonna discipline him. He's a good worker. He comes in every day. Just because he went out and maybe had one too many beers at lunch or whatever." That they would always, y'know, take the employees position and wouldn't, wouldn't kowtow to the, to the general supervisor. And, actually, what got me involved in, in the Union – there used to, there was 2 systems, uh, back in the old days. Uh, one system, the A system, built, uh, Cutlasses and the B system built the Eighty-Eights and Ninety-Eights and these, these, these Toronados and, uh, it seemed, well, it didn't seem, it, it was a plain, simple fact that the worst supervision was on the A system and, uh, because of, y'know, seniority flow rights and everything else, whenever my job, because it was a good job, uh, be it, y'know, I always refer to my installing vinyl tops, but it went beyond that. I, I moved to other jobs because then I got more seniority and could, could get the, get the transfer. Uh, whenever I went to the A system, uh, supervisors such as [Orville Gray 46:47] and John, uh, God, what was John's – a real asshole [chuckle]… Earl Nicholson, Sr.: Powers? Garry Bernath: John Powers. I mean, it, it just seemed like the mindset down on the A system was, was, was, uh, 180 of where I was. And the B system supervisors kinda let things, y'know, they, uh, they stood up for the employees. It didn't seem like they were nitpickin', uh, bein' a major pain in the ass but, whenever I went down to the A system, they were. And I only ran for union positions when I was down on the A system. Uh, I first started out, uh, [Joe Serna 47:20] was, uh – matter of fact, Marilyn, you were in that area. Uh, I always said I got elected by my, uh, my check pool and I was always pissed because my check pool would always run about 21 people and when I first got elected, I only got 13 votes and I was pissed at my check pool people because I said, "You guys couldn't even get over and vote!" Uh, but, but that's when I got involved with the union, was when I was down in the A system. And there was a time that, when recall rights permitted me to go back to the B system, my work environment was wach, much more pleasant up there that I, I actually resigned my union position because of the transfer back to the B system. And, uh, then I'd plop down to the A system again, uh, a union opportunity arose [chuckle], I put my name on the hat again because I, it, it, for me, it, it leveled the playing field with, with the likes of a John Powers and, uh, and an Orville Gray and stuff that I could, I could take'm on, on equal footing and, and make their life as miserable as they made mine and the members at the time, you know? I mean, I, I wasn't, uh, I wasn't that well thought of by management people when I was in the union position. So, so that's what got me involved, is, whenever I went to the A system, I hated the way they operated and I'd run for a union position. And, and, like I say, to get on that equal footing and make their life as miserable as they made mine. Marilyn Coulter: You also had the [snapping] opportunity to run up the Union ladder. Garry Bernath: Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: [48:46] Can you go through that for us a little bit, all the different positions… Garry Bernath: Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: …you held? Garry Bernath: Yeah. Actually, I was fortunate, uh, and, and bein' an old politician, uh, my flyers would read as such, uh, that I would say I was elected, elected to as, as a lot of people would say on their union flyers that they served but I was fortunate that I, I got elected to more terms than I actually served. [chuckle] So, on my, on my union flyers I would say, y'know, I was elected to, and I was elected to, 3 times, alternate committeeman and I was elected 3 times district committeeman. Never, I did serve 2 full terms as uh, as a district and then I, I, when we had mid-term elections and, and that's somethin' unique about our local union that, that I may touch on later but the, the shop committee was elected separate from the district committee. And while some on the shop committee, when they'd get there, they don't like that because they thought all the districts had a free shot at their job and, and I, I still would argue today and I, I hope it's still that way today that that really brings on the strongest and best candidates for a position and, y'know, we should have a system set to where, uh, it, it favors the incumbent, y'know. But, but enough on that. [chuckle] Uh, I, I, I did 3 terms alternate committeeman, 3 terms district committeeman, and then the, the end term there, uh, the shop committee came up, uh, good friends, encouraged me to, uh, to run and I had no desire. The fact of it is, I was, I was gonna run for, what the hell was it, some cheesy job, I don't know, it was, I don't know. It was, it was one maybe guide or somethin'. I don't, it wasn't [chuckle] y'know, it wasn't nothin'. Nothin' that I was actually gonna have an opportunity to further the cause, if you will, of that membership and their plight that they're goin' through every day. It was some, some standing committee job, and, uh, not that they don't advance causes, they certainly do, but it certainly isn't at the level of a bargainer. I mean, the, that's where the rubber meets the road. And, uh, so then, they come to me and they said, "Hey, Garry, screw that," y'know, "what are you gonna do for us there? You need to run for shop committee." Good friends, actually Mike Roach and [Joe Lauer 50:58], were the ones that, that were my strongest, uh, advocates. They encouraged me to run for shop committee. And back then, the old guard, uh, y'know, they certainly didn't want to see anybody knockin' on their door. Uh, y'know, the Curly Jones's, the [Ron Allman's 51:16], uh, [Terry Wards 51:18]. I could go on and on with the list of people that, Ron Perry, for that sake, y'know, and a lotta people. Hell. Earl Nicholson, Sr.: Yeah. Garry Bernath: And a lotta people didn't wanna see any young upstart get into that position and, uh, I was, I ma, I guess I was, I was blessed at that point that I ran, that enough people that I represented at the district level had moved to day shift and they knew, uh, or they at least appreciated what I was able to do for'm when I was their district and, uh, I got their vote and I got elected shop committee. I did 1 term of shop committee, uh, probably my, my proudest moment was, was, was walkin' that membership out on a strike. Uh, that's another stor, story but, ah, we walked that membership out. I was a member of the shop committee when that happened and, and I was, I was proud about that. I articulated my feelings very clearly to the membership, much to the, uh, chagrin of, of again, my fellow shop committee members who thought I ought not be doin' that and, uh, y'know, life went on. Uh, then in '93, uh, I was blessed by the membership to get elected president, which I did for 2 terms, uh, until I got, uh, asked from, uh, vi, or at the time, uh, regional director Cal Rapson, uh, was a big influence, uh, to get me a job. The offer came from Dick Schumacher to go on staff. So that was it, 3 years as a, an alternate, 3 years as a district, elected to, 3 years [chuckle] as an alternate, 3 years as a district, 1 term as, uh, shop committee, and then 2 terms as president. Marilyn Coulter: Under your time as president of Local 602, [53:04] what would you say might be a couple of things that you were most proud of as being able to implement for your… Garry Bernath: Uh, I think probably, if I had to zero back in on one thing, uh, that I knew I had direct impact in, was the fixin' up of, of, I call it the ole girl, the, the union hall over there. Uh, y'know, right away, uh, which – and it was interesting right away, uh, I thought the place needed some sprucin' up and, y'know, I used to call it the door to nowhere. It's still there but I said, "Well, we could fix that. We'll plant a bush that, that'll cover up that door and, an, when I planted it, obviously, it didn't. But I look over there now and that door is covered up but, y'know, I mean, I, I didn't mind. I figured the membership was, was payin' me good money and I didn't mind pickin' up a sledge hammer. I'd wear blue jeans and a t-shirt into work and I w, y'know, I remember with David Wayne, uh, he, he wasn't too excited about swingin' a, uh, sledge hammer to bust open a, [chuckle] to bust out the sidewalk that lead to nowhere and, uh, I was more than happy to go out there and swing that sledge hammer and, and, y'know, actually contribute, uh, both by the ideas and physically to fixin' up the union hall. And, and I was blessed, y'know, with, uh, uh, was able to articulate what, what our, what my thoughts were to the, to the E board and they were on board with it. I mean, everybody understood that, yeah, that place needed fixin' up, uh, and we, we, we redid the, we did the whole hall from the top to bottom. Uh, put in new offices for the chairman, put in a new shop committee room downstairs. I mean, we did, I, I, I guess, for my brief time there, that was the, the major accomplishment. I mean, there was a whole lot of other little things that, that I had an opportunity to influence and, and make happen but that was probably, the most visible thing that I can walk, step back and say, "Well, I had a, I had a piece of that." Marilyn Coulter: You, you also, being a zone, and I know you said that you walked'm out on strike… Garry Bernath: [chuckle] Marilyn Coulter: …so that's one of the things you were proud about, but [55:18] can you tell us about some things at zone you did? And then tell us a little bit about the strike. Why'd you go out and how long were out? Things like that, please. Garry Bernath: Yeah, uh, the, there's a lotta things with the zone, uh, that, that I was proud of is, is, I felt I brought fair and equal representation from a zone to both shifts, uh, because I worked night shift until I actually got elected zone and, uh, I got elected to zone in 1990, so you're lookin' at, at 14 years that I spent my whole career on night shift and, and knew the, the woes and the plight of a nightshift worker, if you will. That when I got elected zone, I, uh, [chuckle] did several things, actually. Uh, was adamant about the fact that I was gonna begin punchin' in. Uh, back then, uh, and not to, uh, not to, uh, uh, [chuckle] destroy any, any involvement of shop committee before then but, back then, bottom line, they cut a fat hog and had it where the shop committeemen didn't have to ring in or out. And I was a young junior one and I was bein' pummeled because, uh, "Who the hell you think you are, Bernath? You're comin' in here and you're ringing in and out." Well, I had one thing on my side, I felt, was the contract, the, the national agreement that shows you will ring in and out. I said, y'know, "Just 'cause you guys cut the fat hog…" – Now remember, I was the young, junior member. Uh, I shouldn't say so young. There was actually a woman, uh, Renida Taylor was, was on shop committeemen. She was shop committee a couple terms before I was. Uh, but I, I was, I was, I was the one that just said, "Hey, you all do what you wanna do. I'm gonna ring in. I'm gonna ring out." Well, that led to, uh, a whole lot of, uh, uh, arguments amongst my, my, my fellow, uh, shop committee people and it ended up they, they cut a hog to where they, they show 1 ring and that made it legal. It did make it legal by the, by the national agreement and, uh, they, they were able ta, I guess, uh, y'know, do whatever they thought they had to do. Uh, so that was my rocky start and then I also told'm all that, uh, "Hey, y'know, I noticed we're gettin' paid…" – when I first come on, we were getting' paid 11 hours a day and I said, "I noticed we're gettin' paid 11 hours a day, uh, no ring-ins or outs, but I'm gonna ring in. I'm gonna ring in and, uh, out, and I'm gonna split my shift. I'm gonna work, y'know, 5 hours on days, 5 hours on nights." Well, that pissed a lot of'm off, uh, because, y'know, they thought they had, I guess, the membership convinced that this shop committeeman job was really a day-time job. Even though R.T. Taylor, I would submit, probably spent the most of her time on nights, uh, when she was, like I say, she was shop committee before I, I got there and she spent the majority of her time on nights and, and obviously, she knew where her political base was too. And, uh, y'know, so she, she kept her, her hours there. So, I was happy that, y'know, and, and that pissed'm off. Well then, also I, I began communicating regularly with my zone and I had a focus that I was going to put out, uh, a quarterly letter to the, to my zone and tell'm how many grievances were in the process, what steps they were at, what we as a union were doin'. Well, that pissed'm off, y'know? "Ya, yeah! What the hell are you tryin' to do? You're playing politics all the damn time." Y'know? And all I said is, "No! I'm trying to keep the membership informed." And, uh, y'know, I kept that as I moved on, y'know, when I got to president, y'know, I, I, I put the, [The Perspective 59:05] out on a weekly basis. Before, it was, like, a quarterly thing, uh, and that hit and miss. Uh, I, y'know, I, I was really focused on communicatin' with the workers to try to build that pride in the union, uh, that I felt was sorely missing, uh, with, with our membership. So, y'know, communications was a, was a big, big thing for me, and, and then, again, as I say, uh, th, the crème de la crème was, uh, [chuckle] was in '92 when, when there was a dispute over, uh, what the hell was it? Oh, oh, versem, ta, mass versus tag relief. Uh, we had, we had it… [tapping] Doug Rademacher: [59:54] Garry, would you share with us again about the proud moment as a, uh, shop committee where you said you, uh, the decision was made and you led the people out of the plant? Can you tell us about that? Was that a strike or was that, what exactly happened? Garry Bernath: Yeah. It was, uh, we were, we hadn't yet resolved – Management wanted to go to tag relief and that got to be the fashionable thing across the, the corporation. Doug Rademacher: [1:00:20] What is that? Garry Bernath: Uh, tag relief would be, or excuse me, they wanted, I'm sorry, they wanted to go to mass relief. We had tag relief. Tag relief was where, uh, you had a relief man, which, oh, by the way, from a production worker's perspective, that was one of the good jobs, y'know, that you could aspire to be a relief man sometime and, and have one of these good jobs where you bounced around and give everybody their, their relief time in accordance with the national agreement. So, we had tag relief, management wanted to go to mass relief because they knew they could do away – in our instance, the number re, comes to my mind of over 300 jobs, by going to mass relief. Just, that then, they would just shut the line down for the 15 minutes, 16 minutes, whatever the case may be, uh, and everybody would have relief at the same time. Uh, many, many [taggies 1:01:10] come at us (I was on shop committee as I say, at that time) that, y'know, "Oh, people that go to this wouldn't never go back to tag relief." And, y'know, they just missed the point that, from my mind, that those were good jobs. Uh, that was the high seniority people were the relief men. Them were the good jobs to where somebody could aspire, a production worker could aspire to say, "Yeah, I wanna transfer to be a relief man. So, I really looked at it as, "No, it, it's more than whether or not I can set down with Joe and Mary and, and chitchat during my relief time, or play a, a hand of euchre during my relief time." It was, "You're wipin' out good jobs." And, and I found that much more offensive than whether or not – and, and guess what? You, when you got, when we had tag relief you tended to go visit somebody that was on the line and, and chat with them anyways as they were workin', y'know. It wasn't, it wasn't like I had to have this mass shut down to, t'have a good time for 16 minutes. Like I say, it was the loss of those good jobs that, that I found more offensive. So, management was, was hell-bound to, to do that. We had it in our local agreement. It was local agreement language, uh, that, that, uh, we, we stood on and said, "No, our local agreement calls for tag relief and we're not goin' to allow you guys…" – uh, just, uh, in mid-term! It wasn't like we were up for a local agreement or anything, in mid-term, just wipe out, uh, these relief men. And, and, y'know, then we were strugglin' too, as, as, as we still do today, the loss of jobs, you know? And I mean, it, it was, it was, it was a big deal. It was a big deal for me! And I believe it was a big deal for my whole shop committeemen, or my whole shop committee 'cause we didn't get there, obviously, I didn't get there alone. Uh, as, as things progressed, Jim Zupkus was the plant manager and I had a, a good relationship with the plant manager, uh, and still do today. I mean, uh, we're still, we still stay in touch and, and friends and I told Zub then, as a junior member, I said, "Zub, we're walkin'!" And he goes, "No you're not, Garry. You guys ain't gonna walk." I said, "Zub, I'm tellin' ya, we're gonna walk." Now obviously, part of mine was a bluff 'cause I had no clue whether we were gonna walk or not. This, these negotiations for what they wanted t'do, eliminate the tag relief, went on for probably 3 or 4 weeks. There's a process that the regional, uh, international rep comes in and debates the issues. Then, Solidarity House will send an international rep in to debate the issues. And then, uh, wh, the day we walked out, uh, Steve Yokich was the president of the, or vice president of the GM department. He sent in, uh, the guy I work for now, uh, Cal Rapson was his top AA, administrative assistant, and he came in and [chuckle] – a lot of people probably don't know it, I, I, I guess probably old news now but, but, when the final push came down to whether or not we were going to strike over this issue, uh, the shop committee was divided. Uh, it was actually, uh, the final vote about whether or not we were gonna walk was 3 shop committee members said walk and 4 said settle. Uh, vice president, or Cal Rapson said, "I'm not gonna divide the shop committee this way." Uh, a lotta tense moments, I mean, y'know, goes through your head when you know you're walkin a membership out that door on a strike. Uh, a lotta tense moments. A lotta interesting stories I won't get into at this time but, it was tough times for us and, and, and thank God, Cal had the wisdom to not divide that shop committee. Well, as, as it progressed, and it got down to that Friday morning, when we set the strike deadline at 10:00 in the morning, as it got down to that morning, uh, they picked off one of the 3, or, yeah, they picked off one of the 3. So now, it was only 2 shop committee members, myself and, uh, well, R.T. Taylor was the other one, that said, "No. We're, we wanna walk." So now it got down, there it is [chuckle] 9:30 in the morning, uh, the international, that, Cal Rapson says, "I'm leavin'. Y'all talk about it. Dick Bennett was the chairman at the time and Ted Hartman was the president. He says, "You all talk about it and I'll be back." So, uh, a lotta words. Uh, a lotta, lotta, lotta heavy, heavy debate and discussions. A lotta hollerin' an arguin' and, and, and fightin' took on. At that time, uh, they take a vote. Uh, Ron, Ron Perry was actually the third one that they picked off and I say they, the 4 that said, "No, don't strike." Uh, had everybody, had the district's position to walk the floor, tell everybody to shut'er down, we're walkin." Everything was in place. We take that final vote. It now is a 5 to 2 vote and I'm settin' there now as a junior member on the shop committee thinkin', "Oh my God," y'know, "I can't believe we're rollin' over on this one." Uh, s, Cal comes back into the room and says, uh, "What was the as…," – well actually, he came back in, talked lightly for a few moments. You could tell there were some, some hurt feelings, if you will. He pulls Dick Bennett and Ted Hartman out, said, "Well, what was the vote?" And Bennett said, "It's now 5 to 2." Cal made a phone call to Steven Yokich and Cal came back into that room. Dick Bennett and, uh, Ted Hartman came back in and, and were kinda smug about the fact that, y'know, "We're not walkin'," y'know, "Chill out, Bernath, it's not gonna happen." Uh, I'll never forget the feelin' I had when, when, after Cal talked to Steven Yokich and he came back into that room with one of our local 602 t-shirts on, I hollered out, "Yes!" Because I knew that shirt was on for a reason. He knew we were gonna walk out that gate. He knew the media was gonna be out there. Ruben Burks had already lined it up with buses to be out there to support the members and the shop committee when, when they walked outta that front, front gate and, uh, we were gonna go out on strike and I thought to myself, and I was bein' somewhat selfish, I said, "My God, we do have an international union!" Uh, the strike ended up lastin' only, uh, I guess it was 4 days. We were back to work Tuesday and, uh, y'know, it ended up that, that it was settled over the issue that we would let the membership vote on st, on mass versus tag. I immediately got out the pen and started writing letters to the membership. I remember the phrase I used because I'd, uh, spent some time at, at NUMMI as a shop committeeman. GM, at the time, uh, NUMMI was a joint venture with Toyota that they were takin' a lotta the leadership from local unions out to Fremont, California, and showin'm the NUMMI way of doin' business or, uh, the Japanese, the Toyota production system. And, uh, I remember what I said in that letter. I, there were several things I said in the letter but I, I said, y'know, "Vote to humanize the workplace, not NUMMI-nize the workplace." And, fortunately, uh, we won that. [chuckle] I remember the shop committeemen again comin' up to me. Ron Perry, a good friend of mine, said, "Garry, your, your, your bitin' off more than you can chew. You should not be goin'' out there tellin' the people how to vote," and this and that. I remember when the vote got take, the personnel director, Jim Gaunt, called Dick Bennett at the time and I, I remember this like it happened yesterday. I was settin' at my desk. Dick Bennett answers the phone, or actually, he didn't answer the phone. It was given to'm. And R.T. answered the phone. I think she said, "Well, it's Jim Gaunt. And this was just after the vote. Now, Management played such a part in tryin' to get the people, I mean, I'd never seen nothin' like it. They shut the line down. They treated our members like they were a bunch'a idiots. They didn't know where the union hall was. If you woulda seen it, there were signs posted throughout the plant that Management put up with arrows pointin' to where the union hall was, how to get to the union hall. And I, I, y'know, I mean, they took their tactic and, and tried to sway the vote their way, and it just pissed me off more that I would come the other way and try to get people to, to say, "No. Vote for tag relief." Uh, we did it, uh, and, and the membership, thank God, voted to keep tag and then that rolled on to somethin' that I affectionately called the rest of my career, Bloody April. Uh, that was when Management come back at us again and basically threw out threats of, "No future product," uh, y'know, like they typically do, uh, "unless you guys do away with this tag relief." And, uh, I refer to it, Bloody April, because we went through that struggle, it seemed like we ended that struggle in October. The vote was either the end of October or first of November and the membership supported, y'know, their desire, and which I thought was their desire, to keep tag relief and, uh, it was that next April, uh, April of '93, that Management then come back at us again and, uh, unfortunately, we lost the, uh, we lost tag relief and then went to mass relief. [chuckle] But it was certainly a proud moment that, uh, uh, y'know, even my brother today, who works at the Olds, said, "Well," y'know, and he's even said, "y'know, you, at least you had the feelin' of doin' that." And I think it's a deep-seated feeling of everybody on that assembly line to just say, "There, take that," y'know, and walk outta that place and… [chuckle] I, I don't take that lightly but I, I, I think there was, there was a lotta whoops and hollerin' at the point that, that they seen their yo, local union leadership standin' up and sayin', "No. Bull shit. You ain't gonna do this." And it was, like I say, a certainly a proud part of my, uh, of my leadership, local leadership time. Doug Rademacher: Gary Judy. Gary Judy: Oh, I'd like to add that, uh, even the Wall Street Journal, uh, supported, uh, you in that effort. Garry Bernath: Oh, yeah. Gary Judy: Conservative business paper stated that it was, the strike was, uh, it wasn't necessary, and it was Management's fault that we went out on strike, and if we woulda had, uh, better management in the plant that that strike never woulda happened. Garry Bernath: Yup. You're right Gary. The fact of it is, I still got that article. I, I, I was, uh, I still read the Wall Street Journal today. Uh, some people question me doin' that… Marilyn Coulter: [inaudible 1:11:37] Garry Bernath: …but, uh, I still read that and I, I, I got that article. Tha, s, you're right. They said, "Due to local management blunders, that, that thing never woulda happened." And it was mishandled by, by management locally. Uh, me and Zub, I, it was, I had, I had some fun with that. Uh, y'know, I, I was touchin' on Jim Gaunt callin' down there, and I'll never forget it, that Dick answered the phone, and I'll never forget what Dick said. He said, he said, "You sure you wanna talk ta him?" and I was sittin' at my desk in the work center and, when Dick said that, y'know, I didn't think he was even wantin' ta talk to me, but Dick Bennett, the chairman at the time, handed me the phone, and the PD says, "Congratulations. You won." And, y'know, I mean, that just showed the mindset of Management at that time. I mean, it, it wasn't about me winnin', I mean, really, it was about [chuckle] keepin' them good jobs and, y'know, I mean, y'know, I understood that that was a good job in the trim shop, but I remember that, that local personnel director sayin', "Congratulations. You won." And I responded to'm. I said, "Well, no, Jim. It wasn't about you losin' or me winnin'. It was about the jobs and the good jobs that a production worker can, can aspire to." And that's where I was at. But… Doug Rademacher: Doug Rademacher. Garry, [1:12:50] did you attend union meetings all along? Garry Bernath: Uh, no. I actually, when I first got elected, my first time I got elected alternate committeeman was in '81. And, uh, uh, then it was a requirement to, to attend. I never, I never did attend a union meeting. I remember as, uh, when I first hired in, and, and it was due to my union experience [chuckle] in the, in the, in, uh, at, at Eugene Welding, that I did walk over. Bob Somers was the president at the time, and I walked over and introduced myself to Bob Somers and said, "Hey, y'know, I believe in the union." Shared my little story with him about Eugene Welding. He appear, he was, he was, he was kind, but it wasn't like, "Hey, brother, uh, come along. We got somethin' for you." Uh, then I, the, the union was really, uh, I, I, and, and I shouldn't say this, uh, because I didn't know and I didn't try crackin' them doors open but it, it really appeared to me like a, a close-knit club, y'know, that, uh, "We'll, we'll, we'll decide who is going to move along and who, who, who will and who won't." And, uh, y'know, 'n havin' said that, I would also add that, y'know, that's another prob, point I have is that, uh, we never… Well, that was, back then there was caucus politics, uh, but that got broken up, thank God, and it appeared as if we didn't move into – we didn't have caucus politics as a local union, and, uh, that is, I think, a credit to, to our union and to our membership. I, I remember union flyers out there that, that the anti-caucus would attack people who were tryin' to run, they said, as a slate, but it was a caucus. Uh, and we would, uh, we, those that didn't believe in caucuses would, would attack them to say, "Well, we don't need caucuses. We had'm here once. You remember what it was like then." So, we played a lot of games back and forth, uh, you know. Politics are politics, y'know. Doug Rademacher: [snapping] [1:14:52] Do you, uh, vote in all elections 'n have you, uh… Garry Bernath: Never miss. Never miss. Local union elections. The fact of it is, uh, I even used to come back and vote for my district when I first went on staff and, and I've been instructed that that's not quite too proper, so, uh, I, I get back for the e-board. I'll be back, I know we got our constitutional convention election comin' up. I still stay in touch, uh, uh, with the local via the internet, uh, and, and y'know, I, I used to give Art a hard time because when I was there, and I don't know, I think it was prob'bly more because we had such a long-serving president, or secretary to the president, but we would always send, uh, any, any information about the locals, Marilyn would always send out to the, the past presidents that, that were still alive and, and I think it was really a connectiveness. That they always felt comfortable about just comin' up, be it Bob Somers, Oscar Wade, uh, y'know, a host of presidents that were there before would feel comfortable comin' up and be able to have a conversation with the settin' president because we always kept'm in the loop. And I used to beat up Art. I said, "Hey, Art, I, y'know, I don't get The Perspective anymore, y'know?" When I first moved on, I, I'd gotten The Perspective. It was once a month. Marilyn would stuff 4 of'm in an envelope and sent it to me as a past president. And, uh, y'know, that's gone now. I, I don't, I don't suffer from it 'cause I've got access to the Internet, but I'm sure Bob Somers, uh, certainly isn't, y'know, kept up to date 'n I, I, it was just a nice touch I thought, uh, for a, for a 30, 32-cent stamp, y'know. Doug Rademacher: Yeah. Good point. Um, [1:16:37] do you participate in union-sponsored activities? Garry Bernath: Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's, uh, y'know, obviously [chuckle] 'cause of the position I hold as an international rep, uh, I'm told – It, it's kinda funny. As politics roll around, because I'm, I'm headquartered in, in, uh, Detroit, they tell me who I'll work on. They tell me that I'll go door to door in Warren, or, or, Grosse Pointe, or wherever and, and, and then I'll get calls. It's interesting. I'll get calls from, from, from local activists here and, y'know, I, I politely tell'm, y'know, they want me to do a door to door in Clinton County or somethin' else and I said, "Well, y'know, that'd be nice but if I'm not in Warren doin' a door to door this weekend, uh, I'm in trouble, y'know." So, it's funny how my politics – and when I say national, I ju, uh, I'm referrin' to national polic, how that's all shifted down to, uh, Detroit area, away from this area, but, yeah, it's, it's somethin' we do and, and it's somethin' I do regardless, I mean. It's, once you got it in your blood, you're gonna, y'know… Doug Rademacher: And, when you were president, you did start a few, uh, social activities, or… Garry Bernath: Yeah. Doug Rademacher: …cultural programs. [1:17:53] Why don't you share a little bit about that? Garry Bernath: Well, the whole idea, is, uh, and, and, Marilyn, Marilyn Coulter was, was obviously a big part of it. She was a civil rights chair. Uh, I think you were elected the second time when I got elected first time as president… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Garry Bernath: …and, uh, she, she was the, uh, the, the godmother, if you will [chuckle] of this, uh, Black History program, uh, that was run in conjunction with, with Black History Month and, uh, she was the spark plug behind that made that happen. Uh, I was tickled pink, I mean, you know. It, it was funny. Uh [chuckle] I used to go in the plant and would have some older white gentleman, if you will, [chuckle] say, "Hey, what is, this's bull shit! What are you doin'?" Y'know, uh, and "Why are we supportin' this with union dues 'n, and stuff like this?" And, and I would respond that, "Hey, listen, uh, what, what eth, ethnicity are you? What, are, are you German? Let's have a German fest!" I, I said, "I'm not a, I'm not adverse to doin' anything that's gonna bring our membership together because that's what , that's what a union's all about." And I think that's what we've lost as a union. I mean you, you look back at, at the ole girl and, y'know, there was a bar setup in there. You go back in the history of our union, members used to come over there and socialize at that bar! And, and, and we've really lost that as, as a union movement. [sneezing] Uh, even today, uh, some say it may be the fix for it, uh, you, y'know. Not to get off hand, but, I mean, y'know, what, what mega churches are doin'! That it is a family, it, this is where you come to enjoy, whether its [coughing] bowling, whether it's cards, whether it's whatever. You, you've got to center around a social activity. Havin' set aside the fact that, that as a society, we've seemed't, y'know, get glued to the TV and our remote control and everything's okay in my house, the hell with the rest of'm. We've lost that as a society but, but I think that's the true, the true meaning of a union. And, and, and off of the, the Black History program, that is, I, I'm proud to say, is still successful and rollin' today, uh, y'know, we did, uh, for National Hispanic Month, we did that. We, we sprung boarded from that. We did a, a Women's Day program, and, and a lotta good things. And, and, and y'know, it's intererestin' because none of that, and, and, and I follow our local union enough now that I see now that, that the members that are a part of that believe so strongly in it that, that they're even doin' fund raisers to support those activities! Where, back when I was there, it wasn't a big cost. I mean, you, you might throw $500, maybe $1500 seed money into this, uh, and, and, and it just took off, and, and they were great. I, uh, every one I spoke at, I mean, the Black History one was [chuckle] was the greatest program, and then, low and behold, along comes the, the Hispanics in the plant that put on a first-rate program and it was all volunteers, y'know, and, and that's where I put it back in, in the membership's face, those that wanted, uh, ta piss and moan about it, is, "Hey, come along. You got, you got a day that, that you wanna celebrate?" Y'know, at one time, there was some, on the e-board, that, that I believe weren't thinkin' the right way, that, y'know. They wanted, uh, "International Solidarity Day. Can't we just do away with all these?" And, y'know, I mean, that did away with the pride that, that was associated with that event, and, y'know, they, they missed the point, you know. I mean, it wasn't, y'know, "D'you wanna have an International Solidarity Day? I'm all about that too! When do you wanna schedule it? But we're gonna still have the other ones as long as the motion comes aboard and the board supports it." And that's what happened, y'know, and, and one of the other programs that, y'know, I was proud of is, is we expanded the, the bible. I mean, when I first got over there, there were literally brothers and sisters or brothers and brothers fightin' over who was gonna get the bible of their parent that passed away, and I just thought that was just totally ridiculous, y'know. I, we, well, this is, this is nuts! Uh, we need to do away with that 'n, and we changed bylaws to do it. Uh, the ring program. Twenty-five-year ring program was somethin' that I was, was happy to establish and start and it's still goin' today and, and, uh, y'know, uh. It was, it was, it was a great program. I, I enjoyed it. Uh, uh, I, I personally delivered each ring to the, to the member that, that got it and, uh, out of all those rings I delivered, I only remember one person, uh, [chuckle] and it was funny, 'cause it goes back to, uh, when I was on shop committeemen. This person got discharged and, uh, [chuckle] long story. But anyways, I got'm back to work and he didn't think it was quick enough, y'know. And, and, believe me, I got the guy back from a discharge in 3 weeks and that was, that, that was a record. He, he certainly had nothing' ta complain about. Uh, he got, got fired for stealin', and it was the, the evidence was pretty cold and pretty hard. I mean, it was there. He, he had, he, he was guilty, uh, but he was a good worker, made a mistake, and, uh, was able to convince management to bring'm back. Well, that member, for some reason, I handed him his ring and, and stuck out my hand to shake his hand and, uh, he, uh, refused to shake my hand. And it was, I, I said, "Whoa!" I said, "That kinda surprised me." And he said, "Nah." He says, "Not, not, not time you made me set out bein' discharged for doin' nothin' wrong." I, "Well, okay," and walked away. But, y'know, the membership loved that program. I enjoyed gettin' out there, seein' the membership, uh, that's what it's all about, see. Marilyn Coulter: Um… Doug Rademacher: Marilyn Coulter. Marilyn Coulter: …Garry, you worked in the plant, came in young, you made leaps and bounds. Uh, you did wonderful things and I will take the time to say thank you for bein' a president to support those programs. Garry Bernath: You're welcome. Marilyn Coulter: Because… Garry Bernath: Thanks for bein' here. Marilyn Coulter: …they found out what the UAW did for the civil rights movement. My little commercial. Garry Bernath: Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: But you did all these things as a president. Um, you said the workers were great. Now, as we sit right here, right across the street, they are literally tearing down our facility. It's closed. [1:23:54] How, what d'you think about that? How does it affect you? Garry Bernath: Uh, y'know, when I come around the corner for the interview today, I looked there and watched the machines gobblin' away [chuckle] at the, at the ole girl there and I'm thinkin', "Damn." Uh, y'know, I mean, it's, it's bittersweet, uh, you know. I knew when I, I knew when I left fer, fer the international staff, I felt, uh, well, I could've accomplished a few more things. There were some things that I – I still had ideas I wanted to do. Uh, one bein' makin' our local union an amalgamated union because I felt that was the only chance for growth the way the industry was goin' and, and, and I still believe that today. But that's another story. Uh, y, y'know, it, it's sad because, y'know, I always refer to Fisher Body and, uh, y'know, y, y'see a part of your life just getting' gobbled up and put through a crusher and, uh, y'know, steel hauled out'n hauled away. That's sad. But, but on the other hand, a, a, as I referred to before we started tapin', it's, it's like the phoenix, y'know. Out of the ashes, rises a new facility. And I certainly know, uh, [chuckle] that that knew facility wi, will, will be good for our longevity, so that's, that's an obvious plus. Uh, I knew that when I left, uh, y'know, I mean, I was, uh – Marilyn, you were on the e-board. Doug, you were. There was no doubt in anybody's mind, uh, when I left that I knew that new facility was gonna get beat, built. I mean, uh, Mark Hogan told me, "Garry, y, ya landed a good one." Uh, [chuckle] at one time, uh, they were talkin' about us getting' the Cadillac facility 'n I remember, uh, at the time, me talkin' to, to Mark Hogan and Jim Zupkus at the time and me sayin', "I don't wanna build Cadillacs." And Zupkus kinda looked, "Garry, y'know, we can, we think we can make some things. We can rearrange, get the body plant, everything on over there. They can continue buildin' 'n we'll, we'll, we'll keep this ole thing goin' and, and build Cadillacs here." And I said, "Nah, Zub." I said, y'know, "It's not, uh, a high-volume car." And I, I, I felt strongly about that, knowin' the industry the way I did, that, y'know, "I, I appreciate that and I know I have one in the barn, but, but, man, what about that other project?" 'Course, back then it wasn't the land, it wasn't anything, y'know. It was just, we, they knew there was gonna be a new project brought on line. And I said, "Y'know, I'd really, really like to have that." And at that time, they didn't even have the, the land bought. They didn't know, I mean, there was speculation. Of course, everything's tight lidded 'cause they don't want no, nobody out there capitalizin' on the real estate. But they knew they were gonna, uh, try to acquire a large group of, of property. I, I sat on a, a committee with the mayor of Lansing. I, I, I knew it was gonna happen. There was no doubt. The day I left, I felt like, I felt good that I, I at least left somethin' here or, I, I felt I was a part of, of makin' the future stable here in Lansing and, uh, y'know, felt good about that. So, while it's, y'know, it's, it's bittersweet. I mean, y'know, you hate to see the ole girl go. I, uh, that, while I say it's nice to have that new facility, that isn't, it, it will not be a part of, of a community like, like Fisher Body was. I mean, y'know, uh, y'can probably tell by my earlier comments, I, I like to toss a few back and have a few pops every once in a while. And, and the uniqueness of, uh, of, of bein' in a community like we are at Fisher Body, is not gonna be replicated out there in the field in [inaudible 1:27:24] Township. I mean, y'know, wh, I, I don't, I don't wanna emphasize on the fact that we had a bar on the north, east, south, and west corners but, th, that's what gets established around, uh, uh, an enterprise like Fisher Body. And, and, and in turn, other people prosper out of the, uh, out of, out of the community and I think that, that was unique. I mean, it was, it's unique. Th, the school, y'know. I mean goin' outside and just simply getting' some fresh air 'n, and watchin' the kids over at, at, over at the playground across the street. That's now gonna be a part of the new facility. They're just little things that, that make the workplace a part of the community that goes beyond diggin' into our pocket and, and sharin' our, our wealth with the community. It, it just, it, it, you can't replicate that. And it, it, wa, y'know, and, and then – so that's the saddest part, uh, but, y'know, and then, seein' the ole girl, I mean. Our union hall has got a proud, proud history. I mean, y'know, when, when the governor of, uh, of the state comes at a ribbon cutting, I think that says a lot about the labor movement at that time and, uh, uh, y'know, tha, that, of course, was, uh, uh, G. Mennen Williams. "Soapy" Williams was there helpin' cut the ribbon on our union hall and, and, y'know, you don't see that any more unfortunately. Uh, so, sad but, uh, I guess there is some, some sweetness there and some light at the end of the tunnel. Certainly, great t'have a new facility. Marilyn Coulter: Garry, one other question from me. [1:28:53] Um, what would you say are some things that people may not know about factory workers that might be something that they thought true but was totally untrue? What are some of the things about factory workers that people, that you found to be shocking, a little bit different? Garry Bernath: Well, I would, I would classify it more, Marilyn, as, uh – y'know, we all know what the stereotypes are and, and we all know how, how, how, how false they are. Uh, y'know, my years as a union rep, y'know, a, whether it was the first line supervisor or someone who didn't work in a factory say, "Y'know, Garry, you spend 95 percent of your time representing 5 percent of the people." And, and I would even have, y'know, uh – I was, been called the enabler. I've been called a lotta – I, I take'm as badge of honors, but some people tryin' to whack me, like, "What're you doin' for that deadbeat, that drunk, that druggy?" Whatever the case may be? And I said, "Well, I'm representin'm to the best of my ability." And, and, and would actually have members say, y'know, "Garry, give it up," y'know, "he's a loser." Y'know, and I'd say, y'know, 'n my, my, my quick response was that, "Y'know what?" I, I says, "Y'know, I know you don't put in a lotta calls," but I says, "you just need to, t, t'be happy and rest assured that, if I can do that for what you term as a loser, 'n I don't look at'm that way, I look at'm as somebody that needs some help, uh, just think what I can do for you!" And it'd bring a smile to their face and they, they'd nod. Uh, still not happy that I got what they thought of as a loser out of a disciple or, or a discharge, or whatever the case may be. And, and then, like I say, as that circled around, y'know, I, I remember [chuckle] those very people would be told, "Okay, everybody, clean out your lockers," y'know, "we're gonna rearrange the area." At, at, at, uh, y'know, a shut down or a changeover they useta call'm. And that same person that mighta thought I took care of the losers, well, lo and behold, he thought it, "Now, geez. These bolts or these, uh, emblems have been in my locker for all this time." And, y'know, uh, put'm in the lunchbox and, and on they go home. Nothin'! Nothin' that amounted to a hilla beans to General Motors but, unfortunately, the security guard said, "Hey, open your lunchbox." And, oops! Y'know, now this 28-year man – I remember, uh, uh, I remember there was a host of'm in the trim shop when I was shop committeeman. There was about 4 or 5 of'm that got – long seniority people that got popped on that changeover time when they say, "Clean out your locker." And they got, I mean, it was diddle in their thing. It was nothin' major. And, uh, got that discharged, that, that I was able ta, y'know, get the wheels in motion, uh, and, and, and get'm back to work in short order. And, uh, y'know, it just makes ya feel good. I, I, uh, a long-winded st, uh, dog burial, but I think most of those are stereotypes. I, I, we're just like everybody else. I, I've said it. We're, we're not here, y'know, I said it earlier in the thing, we're not here out of a lifelong vision to build Pontiac Gran Ams. We're here because we enjoy the communities we live in and this job affords us the opportunity to do what we really, really, really enjoy. And that, that's, that's coachin' the kids. That's partakin' in our community, at our church's activities. And, and, y'know, whatever it might be. That's what it, it's really all about and, and those auto line works are just like anybody else. Uh, y'know, I, [chuckle] I, they're – the ole labor relations foreman, y'know, y'hear it now, we're getting paid too much, we're gettin' paid too much, y'know. It, the old foreman that says, "You, you, you pay what it takes to hire and retain a skilled workforce." That's how we got where we're at today. That's what we are today, is a skilled workforce. Uh, that skill may very well be the ability to set there and do that same thing, y'know, car after car, hour after hour, minute after minute. That is a skill, uh, that I'll never, I'll never discredit anybody for havin' because there's a whole lotta people that have come and gone that didn't have that skill and that ability to do that. Marilyn Coulter: I know, also, you talk about skill and you talk about one of your good friends, um, Mike Roach... Garry Bernath: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: …who was somebody who had went to college… Garry Bernath: Uh… Marilyn Coulter: …had a large degree, and he did, later, leave. Garry Bernath: Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: [1:33:19] But did you also find, through your travels, that there were a lot of people who worked on that line who had degrees but they had to come there to get a good lifestyle? Garry Bernath: Oh, yeah. Yeah. We, uh, Jack, the attorney, y'know. There were people that had law practices that came in to that factory every night and, uh, y'know, continued workin' for General Motors and, and, that was for, I mean, uh, that was for the benefits and, and, y'know. We did get paid well. Uh, we got paid what we were worth. Uh, I would maintain we all used to joke when time-and-a-half kicked in that, "Finally! We're gettin' paid what we're worth." But, no, there were a lotta, lotta good – and, and, and they took those skills, uh – they tell me that nowadays they're tappin' in ta those, that skill set, uh, and tryin' to have them more participative in the workplace or give them opportunities to, to contribute in the workplace. I, I got mixed feelings on all that but, but, but they would take them skills and them talents and you would find them pour them into their communities, into their churches and everything else. Like I say, they did, we, we do what we do over there so we can enjoy what we really enjoy doin' and that's spendin' time with our family in our communities and, and in our churches and stuff, so…yeah. Doug Rademacher: Garry, I, uh, Doug Rademacher. I was, uh, just recently at the recognition of the sit-down strikers, and there's about a dozen left, uh, the 1937 sit-down strike that gained the, uh, the right to be the sole bargainer for the United Aut, uh, the, the auto workers across America. As we area out of time today, and you bein' on international staff where, uh, labor movement's at an all-time low – [1:35:09}got anything to say about… Garry Bernath: [chuckle] Doug Rademacher: …what's, [1:35:12] what d'ya see, what d'ya see for the future? Garry Bernath: It's, y'know, I've never seen, I could talk for hours on this, but I've never seen such a orchestrated effort by the anti-union or anti, I would go so far as anti-American, y'know. That, that, that we moved to this Walmartization of America, I call it, that, that, it's, y'know – capitalism has almost become consumerism. That, that, y'know, it isn't really about jobs. It isn't really about your communities. It isn't really about anything. What it is about is gettin' the consumer the cheapest product you possibly can and, and, and, that bein' driven by the anti-right to work, uh, the anti-union forces. If y'go back in our history, there's no doubt in my mind, why those forces are tryin' to destroy the labor movement. There's no doubt in my mind because in our heyday, we controlled it. We, we was, we was controlling, uh, we was electing, we was getting respect out of, out of not only State House and not out of our house and senate and governor here in Michigan, but in, in Washington, D.C., the entire congress. The influence that we had of gettin' those people in place come back 10-fold, back to our members. A lot of our members didn't understand it. Uh, a lot of our members, I don't know, were probably votin' for the ones that were takin' the jobs outta this country. But, y, ya can't help but think that, and hope, uh, that someday we will, we will like [chuckle] like ole Fisher Body, we will rise again, y'know? Uh, that, that people will finally wake up and smell the coffee and say, "Hey, y'know, I, now I do see the dots are connected." Y'know? It, it, it probably gets a lotta play, uh, and, and how true it is, y'know, Walter Reuther sayin', y'know, there is a direct relationship between the ballot box and the bread box. Uh, I, if I didn't, if I haven't said that a thousand times while I was president, I, I still repeat it and, and people understand that, I hope. But, unfortunately, unfortunately, the anti's, uh, held the Republican Party, destroyin', destroyin' this country. It just blows me away. I mean, how we can be talkin' and seein', y'know, the loss of jobs that have happened. How they can even entertain now, "Well, let's go to Taiwan and let them in." What little trade tariffs we got that still support our workers, uh, they wanna do away with them. And, and, y'know, if this Walmartization continues of America, that's what I call it, uh, I don't know, I don't know what the answer is, y'know? I, I, it, it befuddles me. Uh, as a union, y'know, we don't, we don't connect, unfortunately, the way we used to. Uh, and maybe it was, y'know – the sit-down strikers seen the worst of times. And, and, y'know, I, I, it, I like to think that the educational system would make people understand that they're the worst of times. But, unfortunately, you crack open a, a history book in, in schools today, if y'got one paragraph about the UAW and Walter Reuther, who, y'know, I, I would tell groups, I still tell groups, I, y'know, if, if y'looked at it, y'know, the '70s, that, my God, just think where this, this country would be if, if, if Jackie Kennedy, and I would say Bobby Kennedy, more so than, than, than John, uh, Martin Luther King, Walter Reuther were still alive today, the course that this country woulda took and, and where we would be today. I think, no one's appealed to the masses like those folks did. The sad part of it is, that was in the '60s, y'know? [chuckle] And, and, and we were makin' gains, social gains, back then that have just, I, I don't know! Name a social gain since those folks were alive! There, there, there's zilch! There's zilch! I, I, other than what you see comin' from the labor movement and that's in collective bargaining! We don't have the success in Washington D.C. like we have anym, we used to have. And so, y'know, it, one could say, "Well, what we need is a", y'know, and I hear this all the time, "We need, why, we oughta just shut this country down." I don't know we'd accomplish! I mean, to be honest with ya. Maybe people say, "Oh, wow, geez." Y'know? But we found that our own members, uh, come through the back door and, and heard us. I mean, y'know, look at the struggles we've had. Uh, Caterpillar's the one that comes to mind the most. Y'know, there was a 6-year struggle there that, that they basically bent us over a stump, to put it bluntly. And, and, and the workers come back crawlin' at, at, at a much reduced wage, much reduced benefits, everything! Uh, we just negotiated that, re-negotiated that contract. Those folks were on par and ahead. The fact of it is, the, the, we'd always would use the Ag industry ta, ta, ta promote the auto industry. I mean, it was a give and take. Hell, sometimes the Ag had a better contract than the, than the auto industry did. But we always used to swap back'n forth ideas and grow together. Uh, today, they're far behind us. They're far behind us. Uh, at, at one time, they were par with us, so, y'know? I, I don't know, Doug what the, what the answer is, uh. I, I'm waitin' for that, I'm waitin' for the next Bobby Kennedy [chuckle] or Walter Reuther or Martin Luther King ta, ta, ta move forward. I mean, it's, it's, it's sad. It's a sad testament ta the way the, the, I, I believe, the national politics have went in this country. But I guess it's, it's evolutionary. I don't know. Y'hope – the old sayin', "History repeats itself." I hope I see it repeat itself in my lifetime because I, I was a benefactor of the good times. [coughing] And I'm only, this, y'know, this September I'll have my 30 years in. I tell you what, in 1976, when, earlier when I talked about the PPH's day, the vision, I, I believed in my mind, "By God, we're gonna have a day off a month!" When we lost'm, we had 9, y'know, the auto industry went on tough times in '8, the leadership made the tough decisions, and that went out the door. But, I believe, y'know, that, that – I hope I'm alive to see history repeat itself [chuckle] 'cause it'll be a great, great day. Doug Rademacher: Well, it's been a pleasure interviewing you. Uh, we thank you for takin' the time outta your time... Garry Bernath: Thank you for, uh… Doug Rademacher: …and uh… Garry Bernath: …I appreciate the invite. Doug Rademacher: …takin' a moment to share with the, uh, students out there in the future what, what it was all about… Garry Bernath: Yeah. Doug Rademacher: …and, uh, again, thank you, Garry. Garry Bernath: I applaud you guys… Marilyn Coulter: Thank you. Earl Nicholson, Sr.: Thank you, Garry. Garry Bernath: …for doing this. Gary Judy: Thanks a whole lot. /lb