Kevin E. Beard discusses his career as a production worker, union activist, and UAW Joint Training Representative at the Fisher Body plant in Lansing, MI Marilyn Coulter: [sniffing] Fisher Body Historical Team interview with Kevin Beard. Today is Wednesday, January 11th, 2006. We’re in the UAW Local 602 Frank Dryer Greenhouse. First, we’ll introduce the team. Gary Judy: Gary Judy. Jerri Smith: Jerri Smith. Cheryl McQuaid: Cheryl McQuaid. John Fedewa: John Fedewa. Marilyn Coulter: And Marilyn Coulter. Kevin, can you please say and spell your name for us please? Kevin Beard: [tsk] [coughing] Uh, Kevin Beard. B-E-A-R-D. Uh, it’s common that people mispronounce my last name. It’s spelled like beard but because a my German ancestry, it’s pronounced baird and for some reason, my family hung onto that for years and decades and generations. Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Kevin Beard: So… Marilyn Coulter: [Inaudible 0:51]. Kevin Beard: Baird, yeah. Marilyn Coulter: Baird. And your address please? Kevin Beard: [tsk] Uh, currently I reside in East Lansing, 2204 Rolling Brook. Marilyn Coulter: [tsk] And, um, you’re male. Uh. Are y-, are you married? Kevin Beard: I am married. My second marriage. Marilyn Coulter: And do you have any children? Kevin Beard: I have 4 children of my own. She has 3 children. And, uh, I now have a grandchild. Marilyn Coulter: Oh. Kevin Beard: And another one on the way in March. Marilyn Coulter: Congratulations. Kevin Beard: Thank you. Marilyn Coulter: And your education please? Kevin Beard: [tsk] Um, high school graduate, college graduate, and a little bit of graduate work at Michigan State University. Marilyn Coulter: And can we ask you what your degrees are please? Kevin Beard: It’s an English degree. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Uh, any military service? Kevin Beard: No. Marilyn Coulter: Okay. Um, what did your parents do? Kevin Beard: My dad spent 42 years working for Oldsmobile. Marilyn Coulter: Hm. So you had some background with working with the automotive industry. Kevin Beard: Yeah. He hired in in, uh, 1941 in February and was promptly drafted into the U.S. Army in April of 1941. Marilyn Coulter: Oh. Kevin Beard: Uh, but he – his first job was carrying the mail between the Oldsmobile plants in town and then he settled over at Plant 2 and he became a journeyman machine repairman. And so he spent a good 30 years, uh, plying that trade. Marilyn Coulter: So now were you raised in Lansing or in the Lansing area? Kevin Beard: Grand Ledge. Marilyn Coulter: In Grand Ledge. Kevin Beard: Yep. Marilyn Coulter: Right. A-… Kevin Beard: And you asked about my parents. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: So my mother was, uh, trained as a medical technician but after she married, she decided to – she and my father decided to let her stay home… Cheryl McQuaid: [coughing] Kevin Beard: …[tsk] so the, uh, typical 1950, ‘60s housewife. Marilyn Coulter: Oh. Okay. Um, so what did you do before you hired into Fisher Body? Kevin Beard: [tsk] Oh, before I hired into Fisher Body, I was workin’ for Oldsmobile myself. Marilyn Coulter: And what was it that you did there? Kevin Beard: Um, in 1973, right outta high school, 17 years old, I hadn’t even turned 18 yet, uh, my dad trotted me down to the Oldsmobile employment office. And I probably can’t remember the guy’s name. Same guy that hired him in 1941 hired me in 1973… Male: [Inaudible] [retired 3:26]. Kevin Beard: …and I went to work on the second shift at Plant 2 i-… Marilyn Coulter: And what… Kevin Beard: …in August of that year [inaudible 3:33]. Marilyn Coulter: …and what did you do there? Kevin Beard: Built rear ends. [tsk] That whole operation over at Plant 2 was – uh, i-, it had been a foundry and forge and just before World War II, Oldsmobile bought it and added some assembly operations to it and for literally decades, that plant turned out all the rear end drives put into the ’88s, ’98s, and Cutlasses. Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Kevin Beard: [coughing] And midsize Chevys too. [beeping] [tsk] And, um – so I hired in there in ’73 and worked for… Marilyn Coulter: Hm. [beeping] Kevin Beard: …4 months, 6 months, something like that and, uh, remember that was right in the middle a that Arab oil embargo… Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Kevin Beard: …and so by January of ’74, boom, laid off. So for, for about a 2-year period, I worked for, uh, a guy I had worked for in high school in Grand Ledge Tire and I was pumpin’ gas for’m and goin’ to Lansing Community College and livin’ at home still. Marilyn Coulter: So, um, when did you come into Fisher Body? Kevin Beard: Well, lemme give ya the rest of the story. [door creaking] In June a ’76 [coughing], um, I got called back to Oldsmobile… Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Kevin Beard: …and went back to Plant 2… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …and from then until July of 1980, we worked like maniacs workin’ 3-shift operations, uh, literally buildin’ a million rear ends a year to try to keep up with the demand and had all the overtime we wanted and it was great. All a sudden, that came to a screeching halt. Between, between July of 1980 and June of 1982 when I came into Fisher, uh, [door creaking], I spent probably good half a that time laid off… Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Kevin Beard: …in that 2-year period in there. Probably more than half. And I also bounced around Lansing. I got picked up by Plant 3 temporarily and I worked over there on the J-car hood line stampin’ out hoods briefly and, uh, that was pretty good work actually. Marilyn Coulter: So now Plant 3 was a, a fabrication plant? Kevin Beard: Plant 3 was the m-, is the m-, is/was the metal stamping plant and they pounded out hoods, fenders, doors, all kinds a things for Toronados, for the small, compact, Cavalier-style cars, as well as the Cutlasses and ’88s and ’98s we were building back then. Um. I worked there about 6 months and got called back to Plant 2. [Inaudible 6:33] great affection for Plant 2. Small place, uh, easy to get to know everybody, good work, lots a overtime and all. So I went back. Worked about 3, 4 more months, got laid off again. Was on the street [sniffing] [tsk] and in – pretty funny because June 21st of 1982, exactly, exactly 6 years after [laughter], exactly 6 years after, I went back to work at Plant 2, um, Fisher called and so trotted in the Verlinden gate and talked with [Melody Eldridge 7:12] in the personnel office and got lined up against the wall and got picked out and ended up in the paint department… Marilyn Coulter: S-… Kevin Beard: …working for [Ted Thalen 7:21]. Marilyn Coulter: …so when you came in to Fisher Body, how did that differ from your other 2 plants that you had been in? Kevin Beard: Oh, [tsk] uh, it w-, it was a, it was a huge difference for me because I had come outta places that were working on, uh, daily production quotas and piece count-type work and so if you were willing and you had a good crew you were working with, you often could meet your daily quota ahead of your 8-hour day and get done early and that was great because you had time then to sit down, read, wander, talk with people and all. It was good. At Fisher, ya didn’t have that luxury. You were literally tied to the assembly line. You had to be there when it started and ya couldn’t walk away until it stopped [laughter] at break time. Um. Gettin’ used to that, that, that took a good first month just to acclimate to that new way a doin’ things. Marilyn Coulter: So were you working days? Nights? Kevin Beard: Nights. [tsk] Um. And that was another thing that was fun, uh, because, uh, pushed to that, I don’t remember now, 4:30, 5:00 start time and, uh, I’d been workin’ on a – like a 2:30 start time… Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Kevin Beard: …w-, when I was workin’ nights and [well 8:50], I looked at that at Fisher and I thought [tsk] I’m just – I’m gonna stuck on this shift forever. Where at Plant 2, even when things were goin’ bad, ya still had a 3-shift operation goin’ and you had some flexibility to move around and, uh, had some opportunities. I didn’t see any a that at Fisher [inaudible 9:11]. It was very depressing that first summer. Marilyn Coulter: So what was your first job inside Fisher? Kevin Beard: I got put on the wet deck up in the paint department. This is where the cars came down outta the ovens. They’d been primed, um, and, you know, little did I know right behind me was the booth that the priming was done in. They went up in the ovens and baked and came back down. And on the wet deck, y-, uh, the job – the whole operation there was sanding this body down and getting it ready for the finish coat a paint in the next booth over. And that was another amazing thing the way this line just kinda snaked back and forth [laughter] through that whole department. Um. And, uh, you couldn’t see from one end to the other because of all the walls, partitions, booths, and everything that had everything all chopped up. That wet deck was somethin’ else and workin’ for Ted Thalen too. Um. S-, see ya have a question on here about supervisors [inaudible 10:11]. [laughter] I got my Ted Thalen story. Happened that first week. Haven’t forgiven him yet. Um. [tsk] A-, and I get – I think probably I was fortunate because I got put up on a little higher platform and was working on hoods, roofs, and deck lids and another guy that came over from Plant 2 got put on the floor right down line from me… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …running these big side sanders. He had boots on, he had a rubber apron on, he had rubber gloves on, and he’d grab hold a this huge piece a machinery and lean into it with his body and run this thing back and forth over the side a the car sandin’ it down. Had some [sanding] [inaudible 10:54] screen or something on it and was doin’ that. And that was a brutal job. So reflecting on it, I think I was pretty fortunate that I ended up where I did. He only did that for a couple a days and he quit. Marilyn Coulter: He quit. Kevin Beard: He quit. [tsk] There were quite a few a the guys that came over from Plant 2 at Fisher that they just quit. And they didn’t – see, at that time, [tsk] if ano-, if you were picked up by another plant, you came in on probation again. You spent a 30-day period on probation. Well, all of us that came over from Plant 2, we’d been workin’ for the corporation for 6 years. We were not new hires. We were veteran workers but we were treated like new hires and with this 30-day probationary period and all the crap that we had to take, mostly from supervision durin’ that 30-day period, um, couple guys weren’t gonna take it. Marilyn Coulter: What types of crap did you have to deal with [inaudible 12:02] even though being a veteran new hire? Kevin Beard: The, uh, inflexibility and just no compromise or anything a-, about – or no willingness to discuss why you were put on this job as opposed to that job. Uh, you ask questions about how the system works. Oh, you’ll figure it out as you go along. Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Kevin Beard: The kinds of answers you would get. Um. [tsk] Condescending. Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Kevin Beard: Tone of voice. Um. And not a lotta help from your coworkers either. That was the other tough thing. Marilyn Coulter: S-, so now how old were you at this time? Kevin Beard: [tsk] Eighty-two? I woulda been about, about 27. Marilyn Coulter: So you’re 27, you’re seasoned, and you’re being talked down to and treated illy by your supervisors. Kevin Beard: That’s a good summary. Cheryl McQuaid: [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: And now you say also your coworkers treated you wrong also or…? Kevin Beard: Well, uh, you just – my experience was that ya just didn’t get much out of’m when ya had questions and things. And, and I don’t know as it was anything personal. Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Kevin Beard: I just don’t think that – they weren’t sure if you were gonna be around or not, so why, why bother? Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Kevin Beard: Um. Marilyn Coulter: S-, so after you had your 30-day trial period, did this change for you? Kevin Beard: [tsk] Slowly. Slowly it did. Um. [tsk] Still didn’t g-, seem to get a lot of help from supervisors though. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. How about your coworkers? Kevin Beard: Coworkers warmed up quickly and, uh, boy, we had some great people once ya had a chance to get to know’m. [So 14:04] that’s another thing that’s really tough on the assembly line. Ya don’t get many opportunities to talk with people. Cheryl McQuaid: [throat clearing] Kevin Beard: Maybe the person walkin’ across from ya. Maybe the person workin’ next to ya. But, um, when that line’s humpin’ and you’re humpin’ right along with it, it’s tough to engage in a conversation and get to know somebody. And when ya get a short little 10, 12, 12 or 14-minute break, you really don’t have a lotta time to sit down and get to know somebody and engage in conversation either. So ya, you, you really pick it up on the fly… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …and start to get to know somebody that you’re workin’ across from and try to build from that. Um. Track down people that worked at the other place and came over with ya and, you know, play 20 questions with them to find out, uh, what’s goin’ on with them. Are they [laughter], are they havin’ as tough a time as you are tryin’ to make this adjustment? [squeaking] Um. My Ted Thalen story, this was a f-, the – I think it was the first week that I got – yeah, it was. The first week I got called in. I had been working with church youth groups in Grand Ledge and we had that last weekend in August slated for a canoe trip and a course, they call me into Fisher. So I’m, I’m practically beggin’ Ted Thalen… Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Kevin Beard: …to give me Friday night off so I can fulfill my responsibilities and take off and go with those kids and, and do that. No way. Absolutely no way was he gonna do that. Marilyn Coulter: [tsk] Hm. Kevin Beard: Wouldn’t a cost him a thing. And I don’t know if he thought I was snowin’ him on this or what but, uh, he just… Marilyn Coulter: [Inaudible 15:56]. Kevin Beard: …totally inflexible, uncooperative. Didn’t wanna hear an argument or a reason why. No consideration at all from him. Like I said, I, I’ve never forgiven him. [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: [Inaudible] [understanding 16:08]. Kevin Beard: [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: Did you find that other supervisors were like him or were some of them more flexible? Kevin Beard: Well, it took a while to get to know’m… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …and after ya get to know’m, yeah, ya found a lot more flexibility and a lot more openness. There were a couple others up in that paint department that were pretty gruff and pretty ornery guys. Um. [John Griffeys, Keith Ward 16:31] at that time. Holy cow. Um. Uh, there were people who worked up there that were their buddies and got along with’m great, uh, but there were other folks that those 2 guys just didn’t have the time a day for. [laughter] [Inaudible 16:47]. Cheryl McQuaid: [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: That’s true. Kevin Beard: [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: And, um, Keith Ward, if I’m not mistaken… Cheryl McQuaid: [throat clearing] Marilyn Coulter: …he was a special person since that, uh, he used to be with the union before becoming a manager. Kevin Beard: Well, that was my understanding and that was before my time there a course but yeah, he had, he had held a union office. Maybe a district committee or somethin’ for a while in there… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …and, uh, moved over to management side and eventually he became, uh, like manufacturing coordinator, which handle all the manpower moves and all and, uh, [tsk] um, tough. Just tough… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …[tryin’ 17:25] to work with him. Marilyn Coulter: So [inaudible 17:28] get back to your working area. Did you spend all of you time in paint on the wet deck? Kevin Beard: [tsk] No. No, after a period on the wet deck, I got moved over to main color and so probably from about October, October on, really, um, [inaudible 17:52] think now. Well, yeah, from October until about, uh, the fall of, [inaudible 17:59] spring, I guess it was, of ’83, um, I was workin’ in main color. Marilyn Coulter: And main color is what? Kevin Beard: Main color is where ya put down the finish coats a color paint on the car body. And long booth. Mighta a been about f-, 17, 18 people… Marilyn Coulter: [throat clearing] Kevin Beard: …workin’ in there sprayin’ all the different, uh, corners and doors and motor compartments, and truck lid, trunks, and everything. And at that time, we were spraying lacquer and lacquer could air dry but it was also baked. Um. A little more forgiving than our clear coat system that we – base coat-clear coat system we’ve been usin’ for a while now, uh, but the lacquer took 2 coats a paint and, uh, it was different. Marilyn Coulter: What was it like to… Kevin Beard: Never done that before. Marilyn Coulter: …what was it like to work in a paint booth? Kevin Beard: Dirty. Frankly just plain dirty. Um, that paint got on everything and it got worse. Uh, the lacquer, at least, when it would dry, you could brush it off. With the base coat-clear coat system that we went to in the ’80s, that stuff was sticky… Marilyn Coulter: [throat clearing] Kevin Beard: …tacky. Marilyn Coulter: [throat clearing] Kevin Beard: And when it got on ya, there was no gettin’ it off. Marilyn Coulter: So when you were spraying paint, did you have to wear protective equipment and if so, how did that affect you interacting with your coworkers? Kevin Beard: Um. Sprayin’ lacquer, no. We really didn’t have any protective equipment. Pair a gloves, coveralls, uh, maybe a hat, and that was it. Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Kevin Beard: I don’t recall anybody wearin’ any masks or anything, uh, for sprayin’ lacquer. Um. Leather gloves [inaudible 20:02]. Dirty, dusty. Uh. Lots a problems with quality; touchin’ the paint, bumpin’ the paint, slappin’ your, uh, paint hoses against the car. [laughter] Making repairs. Lots a problems. Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Cheryl McQuaid. Cheryl McQuaid: Kevin, did you receive training to learn how to paint and was it – was that a hard job? Kevin Beard: It, it was not a h-, physically hard job to do in that all ya really had to do was hold the paint gun in one hand and keep the hoses under control with the other and, and just, uh, move around to spray the surfaces that you were supposed to. Uh, it was a quick job in that you didn’t have very many seconds to put your coat a paint down and ya had to s-, really quickly get done with it and be ready for the next job. Especially, uh, when changing, changing paint lines as the different colors a cars came down the line. As far as training, um, you were trained by a utility person… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …someone who normally covered absentees and, uh, you learned all a their bad habits and all their shortcuts and [laughter] whatever. Cheryl McQuaid: [throat clearing] Kevin Beard: And then maybe you’ll learn how to paint well and maybe ya didn’t. It was pretty much by chance. Uh, there wasn’t a system of training people on how to do that. I’m not sure that’s really changed much over the years, uh, ‘cause I remember training a number a people on how to paint and there was no formalized training, uh, when were breakin’ somebody in. Um. Some, some people took more time with’m and more care. Other folks said here’s the gun, here’s what you’re supposed to paint. I’m gettin’ a cup a coffee. See ya later. Uh. Marilyn Coulter: Gary Judy. Gary Judy: [Inaudible 22:00] you mentioned interacting with your coworkers. Uh, how did that job differ f-, from the other jobs that you experienced in Paint, uh, and if ya needed to, say, go to the restroom or something like that, how, how did you, uh, contact people? Because you’re kinda i-, isolated [inaudible 22:17]. Kevin Beard: Well, the paint booth [sighing], uh, and again, I’m talkin’ about my initial few months in there. Uh. That period, ’82, ’83, before we had the big changeover to the small cars. Um. Paint booth was noisy, dirty. You know, big fans blow-, pushin’ air through there. You couldn’t hear yourself think let alone h-, carry on a conversation with someone else in there. Um. [tsk] You were on a tag relief system, so there was only a couple a people on break at the same time you were. Uh. In my previous operations, it was usually a mass relief system. So everybody went on break at the same time. Hit the can, grab your… Cheryl McQuaid: [throat clearing] Kevin Beard: …cup a coffee and sit down, play a couple hands a cards or somethin’ with, with the crew. Um. In my other jobs, you worked more shoulder to shoulder with people and here, you spaced out and somebody maybe across the line from you. It’s quite a distance in there. Male: [coughing] Kevin Beard: Um. And it was not quiet. It was not quiet, so it was almost impossible to carry on a conversation. When we switched to the, to the clear coat – base coat-clear coat system, it was even worse, uh, because now, more and more people started wearing, uh, dust masks on their face. So if ya wanna carry on a conversation in the middle a that environment, now ya gotta peel [laughter] a mask off your face in order to try to carry on a conversation. So i-, my feelin’ was that you ended up bein’ quite isolated in this crowd a people when you were in the booth. There was a bunch a people around but you pretty much were all by yourself ‘cause it was tough to… Gary Judy: How did ya go to the r-, if you had to run to the… Kevin Beard: [Inaudible 24:13]. Gary Judy: …restroom, how did you, uh, how did you do that? How did you contact people to…? Kevin Beard: Uh, well, they had a, they had a system where there was a switch on the wall that you would flip and that would light up something outside a the booth and your intermittent relief person would come around and, and ask ya what do you want? [laughter] I gotta go to the can. And all right, make it quick. [laughter] And away ya go. Gary Judy: So they kinda, they kinda talked down to ya and were condescending. They were higher seniority employees [inaudible 24:45]. Kevin Beard: Well, they were all higher seniority. Yeah. Absolutely. They were all higher seniority people. Um. Part of it was good natured but part of it you knew was an inconvenience for’m. [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: [Inaudible 24:57]. Kevin Beard: To have to come in and, and, and paint for ya for a few minutes. Um. [Inaudible 25:04] when we switched to the cl-, base coat-clear coat system, um, and the environment changed now because we went to that, that tacky paint that never dried and was always sticky and they issued us all rubber boots [squeaking] that ya had to wash off with solvent, with thinner, before ya left the booth and the whole darn paint department was just a s-, a sticky, tacky trail across the floors and down the aisleways and again, my, my feelin’ was that th-, the people in the paint booths were almost treated like lepers because they were filthy [laughter] covered with this paint and there’s paint residue on the vending machines, paint residue on the doorknobs, uh, paint residue trackin’ up and down the aisles, and these poor bastards in the booth were the ones that were doin’ it. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: And y-, y-, you didn’t have time to take your boots off. You didn’t have time to skin outta your coveralls because there wasn’t enough time on break to, to, to… Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Kevin Beard: …actually do that. So ya had to wander around dressed like that and there were chairs in the break rooms that were for the painters because [laughter] nobody else would sit down there because they were sticky. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: It was uncomfortable. Marilyn Coulter: So, um, how long – for your whole time there, have you worked in the paint department? Kevin Beard: No, I, I think I’ve been really fortunate that I’ve been able to move around quite a bit. I worked in Paint pretty solid from ’82 right up through, uh, ’86. Early ’86. And in 1986, [papers rustling] uh, General Motors had to comply with a new federal law about hazard communication. They had to tell all the workers everything about the chemicals they were working with and they were lookin’ for people to do training. They were lookin’ for people to do – to facilitate these training sessions and so I thought what the heck. This sounds like it might be fun. So I put my resume in and I got interviewed by Dave Brown who was the – I think he was the joint training rep at that time. He, he – I think he’d just come on at that point. Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Kevin Beard: And [tsk], uh, they eventually selected me and, and half a dozen other people and so for the next 3 or 4 months, we spent almost every Saturday down at classrooms at Lansing Community College’s campus and whole departments a people would come in for a half-day session and we would be up front along with a supervisor, uh, running through the overview of this new program, Hazard Communication, talkin’ about material safety data sheets and safe use instructions and how the GM program was gonna work at, at the plant [tsk] and then the supervisor was supposed to talk about the specific chemicals [of 28:32] their area and, geez, at least half a those supervisors didn’t wanna do it and looked at me [inaudible 28:41] you’re the teacher, here, you do it. And so I’d take their paperwork and sit and cover their chemical materials while the supervisor sat on his butt and, uh, didn’t participate. Um. But it was really fun. I got to meet a lotta people that way and… Cheryl McQuaid: [throat clearing] Kevin Beard: …discovered I might have a knack for that. Marilyn Coulter: And so that led to what? Kevin Beard: What? You want the quick break here for Cheryl’s purposes? [laughter] Pause? Marilyn Coulter: [Inaudible 29:15]. Okay. [Inaudible 29:18]. Kevin Beard: Okay. Um. Reminded me of another experience because durin’ that period between 1980, before I came into Fisher in ’82 where I was laid off, called back, laid off, called back. I tell people that I had the industrial tour of Lansing… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …because I got to go to not only Plant 3 and stamp out the hoods but I called up over at the main plant, Building 32, where they were fi-, that’s, that’s final assembly for the big cars at that time, ’88s and ’98s, and it was an old facility and ya had to park a mile and a half away and walk through catacombs to get over there to where ya needed to be. Um. But th-, th-, they put me on the final line and the supervisor was a per diem guy. [Jim Bixler 30:09] was per diem then. And what a hoot. There were 3 or 4 guys that had come over and were scattered up and down this section a the line and my job was to put in fuse boxes on the firewall underneath the driver’s side dashboard, which meant that you had to crawl inside the car. And you didn’t just have to crawl inside the car, you had to work in there at about a 45-degree angle. So you were tilted at a 45-degree angle… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …and your hip rested right on the rocker panel as ya leaned in and ya had a battery-operated drill and supposedly self-tapping screws that were supposed to zip into the firewall on this fuse box and I had a bruise in the middle a my back as big a softball where I had to brace my back against the corner a the seat, which is already installed, in order to get enough force to drive this self-tapping screw into that firewall and mount that stupid fuse box. The other bruise I had went all the way from my hip down to my knee where it would bang against the rocker as I leaned into the car. And that job was the hardest job I had ever had. It just beat me up. And I was only on it for 30 days. Bixler comes around, he goes, hey, they want ya back over at Plant 2. You don’t wanna go, do ya? [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Male: [laughter] Kevin Beard: [Inaudible 31:49] are you outta your mind? I am gone. [laughter] Thank you very much. Glad to be outta here. I hated it over there and I – and the things I was observing, I just – I could not believe the way some a those folks worked. Um. A lot of’m had operations, uh, wire harnesses and hoses and things, that they had to install. I’m not kiddin’. When – I’d say there were people comin’ in anywhere from 20 to 40 minutes ahead a their shift and would stand there and build stock up in preparation for the start a their shift and they would come back early from break and build stock up and they would come back early from lunch and build stock up because they didn’t wanna run out and fortunately I never got tested on this but I told myself y-, you guys are damn glad you didn’t put me on a job like that because – again, we got treated like new hires over there too. Well, we’re gonna use you and abuse ya. But, you know, we were all veteran employees comin’ in… Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Kevin Beard: …over there and I looked at that and I thought, boy, they better not put me in a job like that because if I can’t build stock and assemble at the same time, I’m gonna run out and I know they’re gonna yell at me. [laughter] But they never did, so I didn’t have to test that theory. Uh, but I went back to Plant 2, worked for a few more months, got laid off again. Uh, GM had decided to phase out rear-wheel drive and that was all that plant did… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …it was rear wheel assemblies. And that was it. That was the death certificate for that plant and the r-, bunch of us that ended up at Fisher, quite a number of us decided to stay there… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …and so there’s this group a people with 76 corporate seniority that came in to Fisher in ’82. There’s probably 2, 3 dozen of us in that category scattered all over the plant. And we decided to stay. [tsk] Uh, I think most of us feel it’s the best decision we ever made… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …because a whole bunch a guys that were more emotionally attached to Plant 2 went back 1 more time. They ended up bein’ scattered all over the state. Uh, and thank god they jobs to go to in other GM locations but a lot of’m have had horrendous commutes, they’ve had to relocate. Those of us that stayed at Fisher didn’t have to face that, so we made a good choice. A real good choice. Marilyn Coulter: Coming out of the plant for a second, um, because you had those layoffs and back to work and layoff and back to work, were you married during that time? Kevin Beard: Yeah, married and r-, raisin’ 3 little kids, uh, during that time. Marilyn Coulter: [Inaudible 34:29] it [really 34:29] difficult [inaudible 34:30]? Kevin Beard: Oh, it was – yeah, very difficult. Fortunately, I was married to a woman that was able to scrimp and save, so… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …the unemployment checks, [inaudible 34:37] the SUB pay while it lasted and all, we were able to get by. And because none a the big industrial companies were hiring, it really meant ya had a ton a free time. So it allowed me to take classes at LCC… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …during this time period in there and work towards my bachelor’s degree that I eventually finished up in 1983. Marilyn Coulter: Um, Keven, you mentioned the term SUB pay. For those who don’t understand, would you please explain what SUB pay is? Kevin Beard: Uh, well, according to our… Cheryl McQuaid: [throat clearing] Kevin Beard: …contract, uh, when you are laid off, in addition to the state unemployment checks that ya get, uh, our contract calls for the corporation to provide you supplemental unemployment benefits, S-U-B, SUB pay and those payments along with the unemployment checks will get you closer to a regular week’s paycheck so that you and your family don’t have to suffer extraordinarily, uh, during these down times. Marilyn Coulter: Hm. That is, as you said, a negotiated benefit. Kevin Beard: Yeah, that’s a negotiated benefit. Um. If it weren’t for that, a lotta people would be out scrambin’ tryin’ to pick up whatever work they could, uh, and may eventually drifted away. But it would’ve caused desperation in a lotta households, uh, without those SUB checks. Marilyn Coulter: Gary Judy. Gary Judy: Keven, when you talked about SUB pay, did you… Kevin Beard: Mm-hm. Gary Judy: …ever experience, uh, running out of SUB pay because there were times that it didn’t last, uh, very long? Kevin Beard: Well, during that time period, um, there were so many people on unemployment that the fund that GM had set aside… Cheryl McQuaid: [throat clearing] Kevin Beard: …was [inaudible 36:17] – being depleted at an incredible rate. So again, by g-, through negotiation by provisions a the contract, they were able to assess you at more than like 1 SUB credit per week. [In some] [inaudible 36:34] 2, 3, 4. I think some people even got assessed as many as 5 credits a week. Well, that meant there were – when your credits ran out, that was it, your SUB pay was gone. And the lowest seniority people got assessed at the highest rates, so, uh, there were a number a people that ran outta SUB pay. That never quite happened to me thank goodness but, um, it could’ve. Marilyn Coulter: Okay. Thank you. So now we’re gonna fast forward back to [you were training 37:05]. Kevin Beard: Oh. Yep. Marilyn Coulter: And how did your coworkers like having you as a instructor? Kevin Beard: I think most of’m were fine with it. There was quite a bit a good-natured kidding about it. You know, oh, how did you get that job? Cheryl McQuaid: [throat clearing] Kevin Beard: Hey, there’s a guy with a clipboard job. Hey, ya suck-ass, how’d you get that job? Cheryl McQuaid: [throat clearing] Kevin Beard: Most of it was good-natured kidding. Marilyn Coulter: [sniffing] Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: Every once in a while, you’d run across [laughter] somebody that, that, uh, thought you’d done something improperly to get it. But, um, I think by and far most folks were happy to see one a their coworkers be successful and get a chance to do somethin’ like that. Marilyn Coulter: So, now, how long were you a trainer? And did you ever go back to the line? Kevin Beard: W-, well, that was a real short gig. Uh, that only lasted up until – uh, through the summer. June, July, August, September. In, in that time period in there. Uh, and then that program was over and yeah, right back into the paint booth and back to sprayin’ cars and, um, I think I was bein’ used as utility, absentee replacement at that time. So I had become a good enough sprayer and knew enough a the jobs where I would, would bounce around and cover people that were gone, run relief every once in a while. You know, slowly but surely, uh, got the hang of it. Now, so, um, [tsk]… Marilyn Coulter: So now that you’re a utility person, can you tell me what was the environment of the Paint line? What was the Paint culture like up there? Cheryl McQuaid: [throat clearing] Kevin Beard: [laughter] What was the Paint culture like? I think – well, I don’t know [inaudible 39:01] really any different than any other department in the plant because I’ve worked all over and what I found is that folks that end up spendin’ 8, 9, 10 hours a day, 40 [laughter] or 50 hours a week, workin’ together tend to become friends and eventually they start spendin’ time together outside a work socializing. Um. And if ya don’t move around very much, if you stay in 1 operation and other people pretty much stay on that operation, uh, you can develop a pretty good network of acquaintances and friends on the job. Um. Sometimes it can become cliquish where they don’t – may not be as welcoming to people that – new folks comin’ in, um, but on the other hand, I saw an awful lot of real openness and helpfulness, um, people willin’ to go out a their way to help new folks to the area, explain the ropes to’m and get’m settled. Um. Potlucks. Greeting cards, sympathy cards, birthday cards up and down the line. Little collections for this, little collections for that. Somebody has a death in the family, card goes around and the hat’s passed and a little collection is taken up. And I think that, that in almost every area I’ve worked in, you’ve had that, uh, small group of people that end up becomin’ very close with one another and, um. Marilyn Coulter: And did ya find it to be also true for yourself also? Kevin Beard: Oh, I did make some very good friends, uh, in there – in those areas and departments. I probably didn’t invest as much emotionally in it as some other folks did with their cliques… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …but, uh, uh, yeah, I’ve made some good friendships with people that I’ve worked with. [door squeaking] Marilyn Coulter: Jerri. Jerri Smith: Uh, Jerri Smith. Um, as being a rehire as you were coming from another plant – I don’t consider myself a new hire, I – or rehire. Kevin Beard: [throat clearing] Jerri Smith: Um, did you find the people at Fisher Body a little more friendly than you did at other plants or not? Kevin Beard: I don’t think so. I, um, my experience workin’ at all these different facilities was that people are people. Jerri Smith: I found that the people at Fisher Body, I thought, were more friendly. Soon as you walked in the door, rehire or not, they all said – spoke to ya and everything whereas I’ve been at [chassis 41:57] and people didn’t speak to ya at all, so. Kevin Beard: Well, [sighing] I’m not sure why that might be, uh, but no, I worked for 6 years, 6 year? Yeah, 6 years at Plant 2 and I worked with 2 or 3 different groups and crews and we got to know each other really well. And there were times when, uh, we would get our work done, especially on a Saturday, and we’d spend the rest a the shift in the Irish pub. Um. Jerri Smith: [laughter] Kevin Beard: [laughter] And then come back and punch out. [tsk] Uh. So I think i-, I think anywhere, you end up workin’ with a group a people for a long enough period a time, you’re gonna develop relationships [papers rustling] where you can be yourself, frank, honest, open, and have a really great relationship with people. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: Uh. Yeah. It’s not that I didn’t find people that weren’t – you know, you always come across people that are standoffish or unwilling. Hard to say why that is the way it is but as a general rule, um, I found most of the people I worked with to be open and helpful… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …with rare instances when they weren’t. Marilyn Coulter: Now that’s most – Marilyn Coulter. You said that about [throat clearing] the coworkers. Did you find that most of – and you spoke of T-, Ted Thalen. Kevin Beard: [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: What made a good supervisor or a bad supervisor [inaudible 43:33]? Kevin Beard: Flexibility makes for a good [laughter] supervisor. Um. Helpfulness makes for a good supervisor. [tsk] Uh, somebody’s willin’ to take the time and explain what’s goin’ on. Who, who, what, when, why, where, and how makes for a good supervisor. Uh. Somebody who’ll give ya an explanation. [Inaudible 43:58] [laughter] for all the years I’ve worked there, I still got supervisors that – in fact, I quote a guy. When I ask him why are you doin’ it this way? And the answer was, and this was just 2 years ago, because I said so. [laughter] Cheryl McQuaid: [laughter] Kevin Beard: So. Some a those old dogs just [laughter] don’t change. Um. Makes for a good supervisor. Marilyn Coulter: So… Kevin Beard: And I’ve worked for a lotta great supervisors but you can never quite forget their role. You know, they’re still the boss. They still have responsibilities. Um. They still have to adjust their manpower. They still have to cover open jobs. Um. If you show a willingness to cooperate, a willingness to try new things, a willingness to learn, I found you get a level of cooperation from your supervisors that’s usually pretty good. Marilyn Coulter: So after having done your instruction, how did your supervisors treat you back when you went back to the line? Kevin Beard: Well, that was another fun thing. [coughing] Um. You know, back in the paint booth again [coughing] with, uh, [Bill Frayer 45:16] and Bill, a really young guy. I think he come out as an engineer or something like that and he really didn’t have much supervisory experience but he’s a really smart guy and a really nice guy. Um. And he was lookin’ for ways to make the paint department better… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …and paint booth better and knowing that I had some a this expertise in… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …there, uh, he was lookin’ around for things to have me do. And it was tough because at the same time, you’re – you’ve got a seniority system where… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …if you’re gonna create new positions or new opportunities, there’s, uh, traditional ways that that has to be filled… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …with union involvement and all and, uh, ultimately some a his ideas didn’t get implemented. Uh, they wanted to put, uh – some departments eventually went to it but it was a fairly new idea then where they would pick up, uh, hourly people off the line and use’m as clerks and, uh, miscellaneous task persons in the superintendent’s office or MC’s office or somethin’ like that, uh, and that didn’t work for me. But that was okay. Um. One a the things that happened in the booth that was real interesting and Frayer noticed it. We – when the heck was that? That woulda been late ’82, early ’83. Must a been late ’82. Um. For about a m-, month-long period, the quality in the booth went up and nobody could figure out why quality, j, w-, jobs comin’ outta the paint booth, had gone up. In their mind, they weren’t doin’ anything different, they hadn’t implemented any new programs, nothin’ had changed. Of the f-, 17 or 18 jobs in the booth, a good dozen of’m now were people that had come from Plant 2 and I pointed this out to Bill. Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Kevin Beard: I says look at who’s workin’ in here. You don’t have a bunch a new hires. Because generally – because paint booth was perceived as a nasty place to work, people got outta there as quick as they could and it’s usually where ya brought the new hires and put them to work. And a course, that’s a pretty touchy area and ya get people that are new to the environment, don’t know what they’re doin’. Um. Y-, you create a lotta problems. Well, at that point in time, the people in the paint booth were these folks that had just come over from Plant 2 but they weren’t new hires. They were all 6-year veterans and so they came in with – knowin’ how… Marilyn Coulter: [sniffing] Kevin Beard: …to work and what to do and the willingness to, to do it. And I think that contributed tremendously to the jump in quality that they experienced. Now, I think it was one a those learning moments that didn’t stick with’m though because [laughter] as, as we finally got a little bit a seniority in the system and we’re able to transfer and move, we did in droves out to… Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Kevin Beard: …trim and body shop and other places that were cleaner and so ya ended up right back where ya were earlier with paint booth bein’ the first job off the street for the new hires. Marilyn Coulter: Hm. So often time, those were new hires and younger people when all of you were mid to late 20s and… Kevin Beard: Yep. Marilyn Coulter: …seasoned [inaudible 48:49] and… Kevin Beard: And experienced workers. Marilyn Coulter: …and seasoned workers. Kevin Beard: Yeah. So I think that made a, made a big difference. Marilyn Coulter: So after you came out of Paint, um, what were your other experiences? Did ya ever get to do any more training? Did ya go to other… Kevin Beard: I came outta… Marilyn Coulter: …departments? Kevin Beard: Yeah, well, I had another project that came up. Um. Right after the HazCom stuff, the next big project I had to do was, uh, identify all the chemical materials in the plant and label everything in the plant. And I mean everything. From the gallon pails to the drums to the buckets to the lines runnin’ through the departments and everything that carried any kinda chemical material. And [tsk], uh, two a the guys that had been facilitators got tagged to do that, so they started workin’ outta the safety office. One of’m accepted – transferred to another job, which put an opening in and they reached out and grabbed me. Pulled me outta the paint booth and I spent like the next 7 or 8 months workin’ in the safety office for, uh, [Bob McMonagle 49:52]… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …safety supervisor at that time. And great guy to work for. Gave us a ton a latitude on how to do things. We had access to cribs, lockers, [laughter] back rooms, closets, uh, you name it. And, uh, we went through and did a complete inventory a every chemical in the plant. Slapped on labels, warning labels, about what was in it and, uh, that was a blast. And when I – uh, when that pretty much came to an end, um, because in the building, the safety department s-, was on one side of the aisle of the office area. On the other side was the training people and they needed some help. And the next thing I know, Dave Brown, [Amy Lebline 50:46], uh, I can’t think of his name. Uh. Marilyn Coulter: Russ? Kevin Beard: [tsk] No. Started with a K. It’ll come to me. Um. And [Kevin Goff 51:04] – let’s see. J-, uh, Dave Brown had just moved up to be the joint activities rep and Kevin Goff was the new appointed joint training rep, another union – appointed union position. And they reached out and tagged me. Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Kevin Beard: Come on over and work in Training for us and so I did. Marilyn Coulter: And so – and what did you do in Training? Kevin Beard: There I worked as pretty much just kind of a gofer, uh, initially workin’ small projects and assembling paperwork and keepin’ track a data and things like that. Um. [Rod Dietz 51:41] was one a the guys that worked in there and, uh, one a the things I got to deal with was, uh, uh, training records and safety training and it became obvious that we did not have a system to renew people’s safety training on a periodic basis. We’d pretty much been doin’ it catch as catch can… Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Kevin Beard: …when there was an opportunity. Marilyn Coulter: So, um, you’re in [inaudible 52:20] the training department…. Kevin Beard: Yep. Marilyn Coulter: …and, uh, you were doing – there was a little process to… Kevin Beard: [Inaudible 52:28]… Marilyn Coulter: …follow the – t-, to track the training. Kevin Beard: Well, to – yeah, to track, uh, track and schedule people for safety training that they needed. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: And the plant had done some mass training of skilled trades guys back in eighty – [inaudible 52:42] ’86, ’88, in that time period. I think the plant had gone through some, uh, down weeks. I think there was a period a time in there when we were working – they were runnin’ the assembly line for 2 weeks and then layin’ everybody off for 2 weeks. And then back for 2 weeks and off again for 2 weeks. And in skilled trades, they used that 2-week down periods to update all the skilled trades guys on their safety training. And that was great but here we were 2 years later and by law, all this training had expired and needed to be refreshed and there was… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …no way to do it. Um. And so with the support of several people in the area, I kinda started takin’ the bull by the horns and tryin’ to figure out what was goin’ on and how we could do it. And that eventually grew into a position where I became the safety training coordinator for the whole plant and I was working with all the department heads and all the shop committee folks tryin’ to identify and schedule and set up a process where this training could be renewed [coughing]… Marilyn Coulter: So a question… Kevin Beard: …periodically. Marilyn Coulter: …question of ya. How was it taken for you by the management personnel to have an hourly worker take on this type of job? How were you treated? Kevin Beard: Um. I re-, I received probably 2 r-, 2 main reactions from people. One was [beeping] thank goodness somebody’s doin’ this and I don’t have to worry about it. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: And that was the good side. Cheryl McQuaid: [laughter] Kevin Beard: The other side was [beeping] who the hell are you tellin’ me when I gotta do training? [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: Oh. Kevin Beard: So got both those reactions. Um. But in the – amongst the training folks in the personnel department, I think [John Janssens 54:38] was the – he was either the head a Labor Relations or he’d just become the new personnel director at that time. Um. They were all pretty open to it… Cheryl McQuaid: [throat clearing] Kevin Beard: …because they knew that they had some problems with this. Marilyn Coulter: How did, um, [tsk] the hourly workers – what did th-, what did they thing about all this training that was goin’ on? How were they in classes? Kevin Beard: Well, we slowly built the system over time and, um, initially I think pe-, people were pretty receptive to it. Got’m off the f-, floor, off their job for a while, off into somethin’ special… Cheryl McQuaid: [throat clearing] Kevin Beard: …somethin’ different. Um. But on – as the years progressed and we’d run’m every couple a years through some a this update training and they’d hear the same speech they’d heard before, it got kinda boring for’m and they didn’t see much use in it. There may not have been a whole lot of effectiveness in it. But, um – so we always tried to create a system where, um, we would get the departmental people to identify, schedule, and get their people to training but take responsibility for it. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: But often, they didn’t want that responsibility. Cheryl knows a little about that since… Cheryl McQuaid: [throat clearing] Kevin Beard: …she worked in there with us too. [Inaudible 56:07]. And the, uh – it became a bother. Marilyn Coulter: It became a bo-, what do you mean it became a bother? Kevin Beard: Well, uh, with the numbers a people that we had to train and the amount a training we had to do, um, a lotta folks couldn’t see how they get their regular work done and some a the – geez, people weren’t necessarily bein’ notified in a timely fashion. Um, training would interrupt their work day. Uh, we had to go through an awful lotta discussions and negotiations to come up with a system that would run as smooth as possible to get people into their legally-required training. Marilyn Coulter: Kevin, when you say the numbers, what kinda numbers were you dealin’ with in terms of [inaudible 57:01] people? Kevin Beard: Oh, we’re dealin’ with 800 to 1000 skilled trades people or people workin’ in the maintenance department... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …and then you’re dealing with a number of production people, um, with pretty significant responsibilities on the assembly line working with particular types a tooling or, uh, equipment and things that, that required training. Uh. So it was a pretty big animal to try to get our arms around and figure out who needed what and how often they needed it and, and how, how big it really was. Eventually though we put together a program that, uh, I really think was the envy of a lot a other UAW GM plants around. And, um, the other part a that was we were able to develop a database that made it easy to track people’s training and to run reports to identify folks that needed training that the rest a the corporation picked up on and started using. And, uh, again, you know, Cheryl played a part in that. Uh, [Ken Wood 58:14], who’s now retired, played a huge part in that. Um, Rod Dietz, [Mike Gilreath 58:20]. Lotta guys. Lotta people. Marilyn Coulter: So how long did you stay in Training or did you go back to the line? Kevin Beard: [laughter] Um. [Inaudible 58:33] think. I did go back to the line in there. [tsk] Um. I worked – that might a lasted maybe 3 or 4 years. Maybe a little – yeah. Maybe 5 years. And somewhere around the early, early ’90s, went back to department and I, uh, promptly went down to the body shop at that time. So I’ve also worked in the trim department. Marilyn Coulter: So first, how did that work for you going from spraying paint to having the [responsibility 59:12] of training to spraying paint, to having the… Kevin Beard: To… Marilyn Coulter: …responsibility to do office work and coordinate and then continually goin’ back to the line? Kevin Beard: Back to hangin’ doors again. Marilyn Coulter: How did that work for you to do that? Cheryl McQuaid: [laughter] Kevin Beard: It was frustrating. Definitely frustrating. Um. You’ve developed some expertise, you’ve managed a pretty significant program and all of a sudden, you’re back on the line where nobody really gives a rat’s ass [laughter] what you did last week. They just wanna make sure you’re paintin’ the right things and hangin’ doors properly… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …today. And, yeah, incredibly frustrating. Marilyn Coulter: And, um, so you went from the body, the – from – into body shop now. Once again, how did the body shop culture differ from paint shop and how was it similar to your fabrication experiences? Kevin Beard: It was similar to the work I had done previously at Oldsmobile because I’m workin’ with bare metal now [coughing] and frankly, that’s, that’s the part a the whole build process I like the most is workin’ with raw steel and metal. Um. So weldin’, boltin’, [laughter] punching. [laughter] Puttin’ on the leather gloves, throwin’ things around. That’s a lot more fun, um, than bein’ so damn careful about painting and, uh, up in trim, gosh, snappin’ these little teeny parts into place and, and, uh, not scratchin’ anything. You don’t have to worry about too much a that down in the body shop. Marilyn Coulter: So how were the people in body shop? How did they treat ya there? Kevin Beard: Well, a-, a-, and again, uh, the vast majority a folks, uh, treated, treated me fine and with my, my comings and goings in all these different departments and all these different work groups, um, I always found that i-, if I went along with the jokin’ and went along with the hazing and course a lot of it was oh, here’s this [papers rustling] guy from the clipboard job, the suck-ass job, now he’s gotta work. Now he’s gotta work. [laughter] Cheryl McQuaid: [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: Okay. So now you said you, you had hazing and initiations and pranks. What types of things – can you talk about any of’m? What types a things h-, happened to you? Kevin Beard: Well, how far back do you wanna go when talkin’ about pranks? Pranks are – is another area that was just lots a fun. Marilyn Coulter: Well… Kevin Beard: Lots a fun [inaudible 1:01:55]. Marilyn Coulter: …well [inaudible 1:01:55]… Kevin Beard: [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: …talk to us about some a that fun that… Male: [Inaudible 1:01:57]. Marilyn Coulter: …some a that fun you guys had in the plant. Kevin Beard: Well, lemme go clear back to Plant 2. Uh. [I got 1:02:04] – worked with this bunch a people and guys and got to know each other pretty well. Um. The operation we were on required us to use a small hoist to grab the differential carrier. Had all the gears inside of it. And we’d swing this from a rack over, set it on some pins on a press, and the other part a the operation was to take the axle tubes, mount them on some locating pins and some guides, and then these hydraulic presses, rams, would drive these tubes into the differential and then they’d get cycled through the machine and get welded up. That’s how your rear end got built. Um. Break time would roll around. Somebody’d go over to the drinkin’ fountain, get a cup a water, climb up the rack, and put it on the top a the hoist. And so we’d just kinda stand back when our lead dog would go in there and he’d grab that hoist and swing that thing and a course that bu-, cup a water would not make the move. [phew] Marilyn Coulter: [laughter] Kevin Beard: Fall down on him and soak him. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Cheryl McQuaid: [laughter] Kevin Beard: Uh, and some guys are slow learners. They [laughter] just – uh, eventually you’d look at that before ya moved it and figure out [laughter] whether or not it was safe to do it. Um. Some a the guys got incredibly jumpy and got into a bad habit of, of, uh, either goosin’ people or, uh, bangin’ a hammer or something on metal or a metal rack just to make noise. Marilyn Coulter: Um, some of us never found out about goosing till we came into the plant. Can you please describe… Kevin Beard: [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: …what… Kevin Beard: Oh. Marilyn Coulter: …goosing is? Kevin Beard: Well, this is where ya take either your, [throat clearing] your hand, your thumb, or a tool or an apparatus and ya swat somebody in the butt with it. Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Kevin Beard: And, uh, this unexpected sensation, uh, will throw some people into, uh, wild fits of, uh, flailing and… Cheryl McQuaid: [laughter] Kevin Beard: …and, uh, dancing. And some folks are real hilarious and gosh, ya better hope you’re not one of’m that’s real hilarious or you will be afflicted regularly by this. And again, I worked with a guy that – he just couldn’t help himself and… Gary Judy: [coughing] Kevin Beard: …somebody would walk past him and goose him and he would throw his hands out, he’d, he’d let go of the hoist and everything. Ya had no idea where this was gonna travel. If he had a, a tool or something in his hand, he would throw it… Cheryl McQuaid: [laughter] Kevin Beard: …and if you weren’t duckin’ and runnin’ [laughter]… Marilyn Coulter: [laughter] Cheryl McQuaid: [laughter] John Fedewa: [laughter] Gary Judy: [laughter] Kevin Beard: …you had the chance – I remember one time I’m standin’ talkin’ with him and I didn’t see it. Some guy walks up behind him and he’s, he’s got a pair a channel locks in his hand. This guys walks up behind him and gooses him and those channel locks are in the rafters. [laughter] And it’s like well, they’re comin’ down, [laughter] so you better duck and run and get outta there. Marilyn Coulter: So… Kevin Beard: And you’d get – this guy would kick you in the shins. He would, he would, he’d, he’d, he’d focus on whatever was in front [inaudible 1:05:15]. If the you were the poor SOB that was in front of him, you got kicked in the shins, you got punched in the chest where the guy behind him was the one that deserved it but you ended up gettin’ it. So y-, most of it was good natured. Every once in a while, somebody would get hurt and that was really bad. The other thing people would do, take nice big metal hammer and walk up and ring one a these big support I-beams, vertical [inaudible 1:042] columns in there and these things would ring like the bells a Notre Dame. John Fedewa: [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Kevin Beard: And [tsk], um, we had one that had a light circuit, circuit box on it and if ya, if ya hit it just right and just hard enough, you’d kill a whole bank a lights. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: So not only did ya have the noise, it’s suddenly blacked out… Marilyn Coulter: Ha. Kevin Beard: …and, uh, real entertaining. Real entertaining. It made days go by pretty quick. [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: Did you find that that was so – also inside the Fisher Body facility? Kevin Beard: Not nearly as much. There were, there were, uh, much, much, much less of that at Fisher. Uh, there were folks that, that goofed around with people, that picked on people, uh, good-naturedly. Um. Most people took it well and, uh, went along with it and everybody had a good time. Um. But not t-, not nearly to the extent I saw over at, at, at Plant 2. And th-, you know, that was a little different. I – I’m not – don’t know what to attribute it to but it was a different – little different culture. Marilyn Coulter: Now, in terms of culture, given the fact that you’ve worked in all these different facilities and you’ve had the opportunity to work in all these different departments and do these different assignments, um, what about the makeup of the plant in terms of race and gender and age? Can you speak to that at all? Kevin Beard: [sighing] Well, I – you know, you got something specific you… Marilyn Coulter: Well w-… Kevin Beard: …you want me to react to? Marilyn Coulter: …were there departments where there were more women? Where there were more people… Kevin Beard: Hm. Marilyn Coulter: …of color? Was it predominantly male [inaudible 1:07:28]… Kevin Beard: [coughing] Marilyn Coulter: …that you worked at? Um. Kevin Beard: Uh. Marilyn Coulter: And th-, and how – did ya… Kevin Beard: Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: …[note it to be 1:07:33]… Kevin Beard: Okay. Marilyn Coulter: …were there any differences that you noticed? Kevin Beard: Um. Far and away, male-dominated workplaces and I think that consistent… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …where I’ve been. And white males predominantly. And, uh, [sniffing] I – observing from a distance, I think that there were a number of women that put up with a lotta crap from guys. Um. Marilyn Coulter: What do ya mean crap? Kevin Beard: Well, if it wasn’t outright sexual harassment… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …um, it certainly was, uh, kidding, flirting, uh, picking on. Marilyn Coulter: Did you notice whether or not the climate changed any during your time there? Kevin Beard: Well, again – yeah, I think it is changed. I think it’s changed for the better. I think people are more sensitive to those issues now and you don’t see as much a that. Although you still see it. It still goes on. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: Um. As far as minorities, uh, my first real exposure working with blacks, Mexicans, whatever, was in the factory. Uh. Did not grow up in a community that had a lotta minorities in it. Marilyn Coulter: How was that for you? Kevin Beard: Uh. Different. Quite frankly, different. Um. Nervous tryin’ to figure out if there, if there was going to be something – some different way I had to [laughter] talk or conduct myself. Figured out pretty quickly no, we’re all people here. [laughter] Um. But that was my f-, that was really my first exposure to it. Um. My dad had worked, worked for a long time, had become pretty good friends with a couple of, uh, uh, black guys that were in his trade and we had a, we had a big garden at our home and every year, [coughing] he’d throw in 2 or 3 rows of turnip greens and grow’m and he’d bring’m in by the bushel basket and sell’m to these guys ‘cause that’s the only place they could get’m. Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Kevin Beard: And so they’d come out to the house and [laughter], and help him pick’m, help him clean’m, take’m home, cook’m up and, [tsk] had a great time with that. Um. But th-, it really was my first exposure to minorities. And my first exposure workin’ around women too. Um. So lot to learn for a kid in those kinds a situations. Marilyn Coulter: So a different type of education for you. Kevin Beard: Oh, absolutely. Marilyn Coulter: Um. So you’re in the body shop and you’ve seen things, you’ve seen some changes and stuff like that. You had pranks pulled on you. And from there, did you stay on the line or did ya do other types of jobs? Kevin Beard: Well, I, I was always looking for an opportunity to – not, not just to get off the line… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …but to make a different kind a contribution to the organization and to the union and I got involved early on, um, with the education committee. Uh, when [Shelly Grissom 1:11:18] was chair a the education committee. Um. I’d actually run against her the year she was elected as chair and, uh, got put on the committee and started workin’ with her on ways to educate the membership through the, through the UAW. And [inaudible 1:11:39] jeez, 3 years later, I ran against [laughter] her again and that time, I won. So I became… Cheryl McQuaid: [coughing] Kevin Beard: …chair a the [laughter] education [inaudible 1:11:46]… Cheryl McQuaid: [coughing] Kevin Beard: …in ’93 and I was reelected in ’96. And, uh, I took that as a – an opportunity to try to put together some programs. Uh. We were fortunate at that time that we had, uh, resources to work with. We had a president and chairs that were, uh, open. New ideas and ways a doin’ thing. Workin’ with [Gary Bernath 1:12:12], we instituted a, uh, a quarterly education day for the executive board and the [districts and shop 1:12:21] committee where it’d be 4 times a year we’d pull them out for a day and inform or train them on some aspect of, uh, unionism, the law, politics, somethin’ that was important and critical and, uh, had a blast with that. And about this same time, um, the responsibilities with education and training in the plant had grown to the point where, uh, they felt – [inaudible 1:12:55] Bernath and, and [Doug Taylor 1:12:56], he was shop chair, felt that they needed a second training rep and under our contract, uh, Document 46, the union is allowed to have a certain number of off-line appointed positions… Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Kevin Beard: …that work jointly with management to administrate a whole bunch a programs. Safety, health and wellness, [tsk] uh, employee assistance, education and training. Variety a things. And so they tagged me for that second position and I worked as a, as an internationally-appointed Doc 46er, as the shorthand goes, um, from ninety – was is ’95? Yeah, ’95 until 2002 when the plant started reducing in size and, and, uh, number of employees we had couldn’t support all the appointed positions we had, so I was one that got cut at that point. So that period in there, I worked as a, as a training rep responsible for administering with management, uh, the training programs being delivered to the workforce and that’s where we got into, uh, employee-involvement programs, quality training, team concept training. Um, a lotta, a lotta the changes – uh, problem solving, statistical process control. Um. Between myself and Kevin Goff and all the folks that we had workin’ with us, um, we were responsible for tryin’ to get those programs enacted on the floor and get people trained so they could, uh, do things a new way as work was changin’ in the plants. Marilyn Coulter: Okay, so, I’m gonna backtrack a little. Kevin Beard: Okay. Marilyn Coulter: During this time when you did this – while you were doing these different training programs, you were continuing your own eduction and getting your own degree, correct? Kevin Beard: Well, I had my degree in 1983… Marilyn Coulter: Okay. Kevin Beard: …from Michigan State. Marilyn Coulter: And I know General Motors had, um, tuition assistance programs? Kevin Beard: Yep. Marilyn Coulter: Did you utilize those… Kevin Beard: I did. Marilyn Coulter: …programs? Kevin Beard: Yeah. Um. Wasn’t as – there wasn’t as much money set aside then as there is now, uh, so a lot of expenses came outta my own pocket but, um, uh, yeah, that was an incredibly valuable resource to have. Marilyn Coulter: So now you, um… Kevin Beard: [sniffing] Marilyn Coulter: …were a factory worker with a pretty extensive educational background. Did you find that to be so of many of your other coworkers? Kevin Beard: Uh, you would be surprised how many people ya work with, and you may not even know, that have associate’s degrees, bachelor’s degrees, master’s degrees, and, uh, you know, we had a guy over at Plant 2 that had a PhD in chemistry workin’ on the line. Um. We never could figure out exactly why he did that but, [laughter] but he was there and, uh… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …and so folks develop all kinds of expertise in all kinds a different areas and, uh, whether or not they earn a degree, uh, often doesn’t matter much. They become experts incredibly talented and skilled in a whole wide range a things outside a work and, uh, [inaudible 1:16:37] people that, uh, have construction businesses, remodeling businesses, uh, real estate businesses on the side. You’d be amazed how many of our skilled trades guys run their own little, uh, electrical companies or plumbing companies on the side, uh, outside a working hours. Um. Lotta folks were perfectly content sitting on their high school education and… Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Kevin Beard: …not, not really pursuing anything else but a lotta folks did too. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Gary Judy. Gary Judy: Gary Judy. Uh, Kevin, you, you talk about doing things outside of the plant. Y-, you recently ran for East Lansing city council and you won. Congratulations on that. Kevin Beard: Thank you. Gary Judy: Uh, could you tell us what inspired you to do that? Kevin Beard: Well, it certainly wasn’t the $7000 a year pay. [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: [laughter] Gary Judy: [laughter] Kevin Beard: Uh. Cheryl McQuaid: [throat clearing] Kevin Beard: What inspired me to do that? Well, in – and I’ve lived in East Lansing since 1984 and I put 4 kids through [papers rustling] the school system out there. Um. Got involved in city issues when they affected, when they affected my neighborhood. And [tsk], uh, when we had a person come in and buy up some duplexes on my block and then proceed to mismanage them, uh, put in bad tenants, didn’t control the tenants, um, just things ran amok. And the neighbors got together and we ended up in front of the city council, in front of the city planning commission, in front a the city housing commission, um, arguing against what was going on on the block behind us and my neighbors thought that I was the most articulate one in the bunch, so they kept shovin’ me up to the lectern to, to talk. [laughter] And… Marilyn Coulter: [throat clearing] Kevin Beard: …next thing I know, I’m bein’ recruited to serve on the planning commission and I ended up serving 8 years on the planning commission makin’ those decisions and recommending decisions to the city council about development issues, planning, zoning. Um, you know, big projects, big issues. Um. And I ran for city council 4 years ago in 2001 and just narrowly missed getting elected then. Um. And I’ve served on the parks and rec commission in East Lansing along with bein’ on a neighborhood – an officer in my neighborhood association, um, working with the schools, workin’ with the scouts, workin’ with the church. Just active in a lotta different aspects and, and, and still finding time to be active in the local union as well, um, and all the things that needed to be done there. So once ya get into that groove and start doin’ those things, sometimes it’s hard, hard not to get out of it, take time off and relax. Gary Judy: So do ya find, find it hard to balance your work life, uh, a-, and your, uh, life as a politician? Kevin Beard: I don’t but ya probably should talk to my kids and my wife and see what they say. [laughter] Jerri Smith: [laughter] Kevin Beard: Am I gone too much? Am I too consumed by these things? They, they might tell ya that I do spend too much time out doin’ that kinda stuff. Um. But I enjoy it and I feel like I’m makin’ a contribution and I feel… Cheryl McQuaid: [coughing] Kevin Beard: …like I’ve got understanding a the issues and what’s goin’ on and I make good decisions about these things. Gary Judy: Do you feel your work life at, at General Motors helped you obtain that position? Kevin Beard: Well… Gary Judy: Support from your union… Kevin Beard: W-. Gary Judy: …and coworkers? Kevin Beard: Yeah, all 3 of’m. Marilyn Coulter: Cheryl McQuaid. Cheryl McQuaid: Cheryl McQuaid. Kevin, you mentioned your wife and your kids. You worked on the second shift. [musical tone] Kevin Beard: Yeah. Cheryl McQuaid: How hard was that on your family life? Kevin Beard: Um, [musical tone] now we’re talkin’ about my first ex-wife. [laughter] [musical tone] That’s you. Gary Judy: [Inaudible 1:21:17]. Cheryl McQuaid: [It’s Frank 1:21:18]. [laughter] John Fedewa: Sounds like it’s comin’ from right here. Kevin Beard: Okay. Marilyn Coulter: You were asking [inaudible 1:21:26]. Kevin Beard: Yeah. Cheryl asked about, uh, family, marriage, second shift. All that kinda stuff. Um. I fell into my employment with GM at a period in time when the industry was goin’ through big transformations and got touched by every one of’m. The, uh, the shift from rear-wheel drive to front-wheel drive killed the plant I was [laughter] working at, one I hired in at. Um. Oil embargos and gas prices and all that. Shiftin’ from big cars to little cars; caught up in that. Um. The massive layoffs and all; got caught up in that. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: And because that meant ya had to bounce around to different facilitates and all, that almost always meant I was on second shift and it almost – it always meant that ya never had quite enough seniority… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …to preference to day shift or something like that. So yeah, I spent tons a time on the night shift and it does not give you a chance to participate with your family in anything. And I thank my lucky stars and all of the union and management folks that tagged me for these special assignments ‘cause frankly, if it hadn’t been for that, I never woulda seen day shift. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: Ever. And so that was a real blessing. Honest to goodness, a real blessing. But the stress that that puts on the family, that, man, that’s tough and [tsk] you’re doin’ your part, you’re bringin’ home the bacon but ya can’t be there emotionally. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: And because my wife was a student and tryin’ to finish up her degree the same time, um, that meant I get home at 2 or 3:00 in the morning, try to get some sleep. She would be up and out the door with these little kids. I would probably have to get up at 6:30 or 7:00, get them ready for school, um, or take them to nursery school and then try to get a few more hours a sleep before they got home in the afternoon and when she would get home from classes, uh, just long enough to kiss her goodbye and I’d head off to work. And, uh, it’s, it’s very difficult to carry on a relationship through, uh, an occasional phone call… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …and I – you know, wasn’t just me. Uh, there was a lotta families that suffered through that. And i-, when ya have a chance of, of lookin’ forward to the opportunity to eventually get to the day shift and get onto a normal schedule, maybe ya can tough it out and get there. But for a lotta folks like me, just about the time ya got in position, something would happen and bang, you’re goin’ back the wrong way. Cheryl McQuaid: [throat clearing] Kevin Beard: And we just went through this here a couple years ago. As the plant started sh-, layin’ off the shifts and shuttin’ things down, here we are guys with 20 years in in this plant now suddenly found themselves on the worst crappy jobs on the worst possible shift again… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …um, because they didn’t quite have the seniority compared to everybody else in there to hold, hold their preferred shift. And maybe they’d worked days… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …for… Cheryl McQuaid: [coughing] Kevin Beard: …for 10 years or 12 years and all of a sudden, bang, they’re on nights. Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Kevin Beard: And, yeah, it just causes a huge disruption. Marilyn Coulter: There’s a lotta things. Um, Marilyn Coulter. Kinda going back for a brief moment, um, [laughter] you are an elected official. Um. Kevin Beard: I am now. Marilyn Coulter: Now. And you were elected inside your union and you were also elected in your community. Now, were you, um, a rare occasion or are there other coworkers that also hold elected positions [inaudible 1:25:41]? Or have in the past? Kevin Beard: Oh, I know of [sighing] – I think I know of 2 others that have held – [inaudible 1:25:51] 3 now that, that [inaudible 1:25:53] are holding or have held elected office. Uh, 4. Okay. Comin’ back to me. Um. Got a member out and a friend a mine who was on the school board in the Lakewood school district. Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Kevin Beard: Another one who served a couple – maybe 3 or 4 terms as mayor of Charlotte. Another one served as mayor of the small town of Potterville. Um. Maybe he’s still in that position. [Grossnickel 1:26:18]. I think he might still be. Maybe not. Um. There was somebody else too. But, yeah, occasionally that happens, uh, where one of us coming out of the blue-collar ranks will, uh, run for… Cheryl McQuaid: [throat clearing] Kevin Beard: …and be elected to those kinds of positions and it’s – I n-, it’s not typical… Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Kevin Beard: …really. We tend to elect white-collar professionals or business people in our communities to these positions. We… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …we don’t usually elect blue-collar workers. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: So it’s pretty rare. Marilyn Coulter: And often times, it’s a misconception because a lotta times people don’t understand that just because somebody’s a blue-collar worker, doesn’t mean that they’re not qualified and educated to do the job. Um. So you’ve, um, had an opportunity that’s been unlike a lot of factory workers. You’ve had opportunities to work on the line, you’ve had an opportunity to make a difference in training. [tsk] Um. Lansing Fisher Body has often been called the capital of quality. Why do you think that is? And what makes them different from other facilities? Kevin Beard: Lansing in general, but I really – I think Fisher body in particular, just seemed to have an attitude about the work. They take it more seriously. I think they understand the importance of it. They have better understanding how the role or position that we have, uh, tremendous pride in what they do. And all that leads to producin’, uh, quality products which help build the, the reputation that we’ve got. Um. I, I’ve found people are willin’ to do – they’re willing to do whatever it takes… Gary Judy: [coughing] Kevin Beard: …to do the best job they can as long as they feel supported in that. And [that 1:29:13] where we, where we break down is where we – we don’t necessarily follow through on, uh, implementing a particular program or way of doin’ things. We can leave people hangin’. Uh, but where we do follow though… Cheryl McQuaid: [throat clearing] Kevin Beard: …and everybody’s able to see that management and union think that this is important and are willing to lead… Cheryl McQuaid: [throat clearing] Kevin Beard: …and demonstrate leadership [inaudible 1:29:55] the folks get on board with it pretty quick and work real hard to make things happen. Marilyn Coulter: Um. Fisher Body Lansing… Cheryl McQuaid: [throat clearing] Marilyn Coulter: …Lansing [Cars said 1:30:10] that they’ve had a lot of different programs. One of the big things that has happened over the years has been employee involvement. How do you think that has affected the growth of the business? Kevin Beard: My first special… Cheryl McQuaid: [throat clearing] Kevin Beard: …involvement, if you will, was as EPG facilitator, employee participation group facilitator… Cheryl McQuaid: [throat clearing] Kevin Beard: …up in building 21, 3rd floor. I – when I got outta the booth, I took a relief job up there and was runnin’ relief on the polish line and the groups, the work groups, the teams, if you will, at that point were, um, organized around supervisors’ area. So ya had anywhere from 25 to 45, maybe 50 people in your work group or team and somebody in the area volunteered to be the facilitator for it and up in [21-3 1:31:28], I volunteered for that and took that position. Cheryl McQuaid: [throat clearing] Kevin Beard: We had gone from having that kind of a system back in mid to late ’80s to bein’ down to 4, 5, and 6-member teams where the team coordinator now with the level of… Cheryl McQuaid: [throat clearing] Kevin Beard: …or an expectation of employee involvement much [higher 1:31:55] than it was then. Um. [coughing] Twenty years ago, you’d hold a meeting once a week and most of it was communication to the people on the floor about stuff that was goin’ on and maybe a chance to answer a few questions. Now the expectation is that each a these teams is going to be responsible for managing their affairs in their little work group. They’re gonna learn each other’s jobs, they’re gonna rotate around those jobs, they’re gonna have a coordinator that supports them on these jobs. Um. If they have problems, they will raise concerns about it immediately even to the point of maybe stopping a line temporarily to get something fixed where in the good old days, you didn’t stop that line for nothin’. Cheryl McQuaid: [laughter] Kevin Beard: [laughter] If ya had a problem, [tsk] you put that car in repair [laughter] but keep that line running. Um. I-, i-, yeah, it’s changed tremendously. Um. What, what the corporation wants is to imitate the Toyota production system and I, I tell people I – that it really isn’t difficult to learn how to do a particular operation in the plant, um, that within a week, you take almost any person out there and train them on those – that set of repetitive tasks and they will be competent and can be left on their own to do it and they’d be fine. But that’s not your job anymore. Your job isn’t just welding and painting and snapping parts together. Now your job is improving the process of welding and painting and snapping parts together. And that requires a whole different set a skills that we’ve been tryin’ to train people on for the last 20 years. Intercommunication skills, interpersonal skills, problem solving, statistical process, team-based systems, team concept, um, the whole operations a the business, how to increase quality, how to cut costs, how to arrange your work areas to be more efficient. All kinds a different strategies and approaches that just weren’t a concern 20 years ago that are now. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: And… Gary Judy: Gary Judy. Cheryl McQuaid: [throat clearing] Gary Judy: Kevin, do you feel, uh, management is more on board with those programs now than they were in the past? Uh, uh, [‘cause 1:34:55] at some point in time, they were called flavor-of-the-month programs and you’d try it for a few weeks. And did all managers, uh, feel the same about those programs or did you experience different, uh, opinions about’m? Kevin Beard: [tsk] Definitely had a lot of different opinions about the programs, uh, both from the workers on the floor and from the managers. Um. Some folks embraced it, some folks were highly skeptical but willing to go along, and others just reject it outta hand, uh… Cheryl McQuaid: [coughing] Kevin Beard: …almost with an attitude of geez, why bother to learn anything and it ain’t gonna be around next month anyway. And too often, there was, there was [laughter] too much truth to that. Um. What, what the organization as a whole just never seemed to grasp the idea is that implementing these things or doing training on these things, to be effective, can’t be treated as a one-time event. It’s gotta be a process and it’s gotta be reinforced and supported over a long period a time and too often, we treat training and we treat these programs as another task to do to check off our to-do list and once I get it done, I can forget about it and so ya don’t get continuity. On the other hand, standing where we are now in 2006 and looking backwards, knowing what we’re gonna have in place at the new plant out in Delta, you can look back to employee participation groups and, and recognize that as being the first attempt to develop a team-based system. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: You know, a very superficial treatment of the whole thing. You know, they didn’t, didn’t expect much out of it but they started it clear back then 20 years ago and it’s been evolving ever since and all the attempts up to this point, um, [tsk] EPG to first-time build to team build to now the, the GMS, are all steps in that direction of implementing those team-based systems. Um. As far as the support goes, [inaudible 1:37:32] seen all kinds a, uh, reactions, uh, to it. Gary Judy: You think the managers today are, are more in favor of it than they were, uh, you know, 10, 15 years ago? Kevin Beard: Well, I don’t know as when you say in favor of it. Gary Judy: Well, in support of it. Kevin Beard: I think that – I think the managers that are around now have a much better understanding of how it works or how it should work. They still don’t necessarily, and we’re probably gonna have to wait till we get to Delta to really see if, if, if it’s gonna work, whether or not they believe they’re implementing a system that is process-dependent or people-dependent. Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Kevin Beard: Because what makes it work for Toyota is a huge focus on the people and every time GM has tried to implement this stuff, they’ve focused on other things. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: They focused on robotics, automation, you know, pull cords. We’ve had that damn pull cord in there for a long time. We’ve never really had a clear understanding of how it’s supposed… Cheryl McQuaid: [throat clearing] Kevin Beard: …to be used to support the people on the line. To, to the point where if ya pull the cord, ya get your butt chewed. [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: And that’s exactly the wrong way to go about it. Every time that cord is pulled, it is supposed to be flagging a problem but, you know, our culture doesn’t – or has not treated it that way. Um. So where Toyota takes that information and digs in to figure out what’s goin’ wrong and solving the problem, we turn around and, and, uh, tell our people don’t pull the cord. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: So we got all kinds a problems that never surface and never get solved. Marilyn Coulter: Um. Marilyn Coulter. Do you – how do you feel that it affects, um, the process? Because it used to be oftentimes supervisors came from the floor. They were rank and filers who eventually got on to supervision and now they’ve gone to a process of contract supervisors who may not have had any, um, dealings with manufacturing before they came into the facility. How do you think that affected Fisher Body? Kevin Beard: There are definitely negative aspects a that and I got to see that firsthand up in the paint department because my last, uh, stint on the line was [inaudible 1:30] paint… Cheryl McQuaid: [laughter] Kevin Beard: …just before they closed the plant down. Cheryl McQuaid: [coughing] Kevin Beard: Um. And there they were cyclin’ through these contract supervisors left and right and their, their, uh, [tsk] ownership of anything in particular was pretty low. They knew they were collectin’ their paycheck. They were doin’ what they had to do. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: They didn’t really have a huge emotional involvement in it. Um. A few of’m were hoping and praying that GM would pick’m up as full time. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: Um. I don’t know as you can, uh, really condemn… Cheryl McQuaid: [throat clearing] Kevin Beard: …GM for doing that, bringing those contract supervisors in, because from their point of view, knowing… Cheryl McQuaid: [throat clearing] Kevin Beard: …full well that these operations were going to cease at some point and that they were going to need far fewer salaried supervisors out there, they woulda been incredibly foolish to hire permanent supervisors and to make that permanent commitment to [papers rustling] people that they knew they were gonna have to either let go or place somewhere else. So hirin’ the contracts, uh, solved that problem for them. They didn’t have that permanent – they didn’t create that permanent relationship with’m. On the other hand, they brought in a whole bunch a folks and did a piss-poor job of orientating’m to… Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Kevin Beard: …not only the operations but their responsibilities in those operations. And while I never got to experience it first hand, um, uh, I’m aware of a few situations where, uh, the contract supervisor obviously believed their job was to, to issue orders, make demands, kick ass… Gary Judy: [coughing] Kevin Beard: …take names, and discipline people. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: And a lot of – some folks, some folks had really rotten experiences with that – with those contract supervisors, so that you can hang on GM’s doorstep. They did a terrible job of orientatin’ those contract supervisors to, to their responsibilities in the plant and they created problems that didn’t need to be there and that’ll just – that was just really foolish on their part. Really, really foolish. Now [when we 1:43:00] get in the new plant, you’re not gonna have contact supervisors. You’re gonna have permanent supervisors out there. And the other part a your question was they’re, they’re requirin’ it now that these folks have, uh, [tsk] bachelor’s degrees and other credentials… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …in order to become supervisors. Again, ya got a lotta folks on the floor that already have those credentials. If they sought a management position, they could do that. And bringin’ people up off the floor to fill those positions isn’t always the best thing to do. You know, we talked about Keith Ward. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: [laughter] You know, not only did Keith come up through the ranks but he was also a union official. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: But the minute he put his management hat on, it’s like he forgot all about his previous [beeping] life and relationships… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …and, and became the best company guy that [beeping] they coulda hoped for. Cheryl McQuaid: [throat clearing] Kevin Beard: Um. Wether or not a person’s a good supervisor really depends on their personality, their willingness to, uh, conduct themselves in a professional fashion with their employees, uh, whether or not they have a clear understanding a their roles, whether or not they’ve been trained properly… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …more than where they came from. Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Um. Couple of questions as we come near close. Um. Number one, what was – during your time there, what was – what would you say was your happiest or [most 1:44:38] victorious moment working there? And then what did you feel about working in a plant that closed? How did the closing… Cheryl McQuaid: [throat clearing] Marilyn Coulter: …[inaudible] [Body 1:44:49] – how do ya feel about that? Kevin Beard: My best moment. Hm. [tsk] Hm. [Inaudible 1:45:08]. [Inaudible 1:12] so many good moments. Marilyn Coulter: Would you like to share one of them with us? Kevin Beard: [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: [laughter] Kevin Beard: Hm. [tsk] [Inaudible 1:45:30] it’s hard to say. [laughter] Um. Probably, probably for me, personally the best moment was when we went toe to toe with the National Center for Human Resources on training records. Now, this is not somethin’ that folks on the floor are ever gonna know about because this is all behind-the-scenes stuff. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: But, uh, our geniuses down there, uh, knew that most places were doin’ a piss-poor… Cheryl McQuaid: [throat clearing] Kevin Beard: …job of managing their training records and they went out and hired a little computer software company to create software to manage training records and they spent time in their ivory tower and then they trotted it out and, you know, this’ll solve all your problems. And it shows up on our doorstep and we looked at it and went, you know, that’s pretty cool. And we played 20 questions with’m and there was just no way that this software was capable of handling the data comin’ out of a facility as big as Fisher Body or the Lansing site. There’s just no way. If it was a little, a little shop like an [SPO 1:47:25] in Indianapolis or, uh, the Ford’s plant in [tsk] Ohio or somethin’, it would work great for’m but not managin’ the kinda data we’ve got. And we had to go, almost literally, uh, toe to toe with’m to talk’m outta doin’ this and to provide evidence and demonstrate to them that what we had in Lansing was already working for us with a few modifications would be better and what’s more, corporation already owns it… Cheryl McQuaid: [throat clearing] Kevin Beard: …and can make it accessible to everybody real quick and easy. And [coughing] eventually they saw it our way. So professionally, that was probab-, that was a huge success. Um. Not just the fact that it took our system and got it spread around the whole corporation and that it validated all the work we had done but that it really was the most efficient way to do it and it saved the company tons a money by workin’ with somethin’ that already existed rather than goin’ out and creatin’ something that was ultimately gonna prove to be inadequate. So that was good. That was great. I think th-, for me, the best times have been [tsk] workin’ with the folks in the safety office, in the training office. We have just had s-, I – so many great people to work with. Um. Ken Wood, Cheryl McQuaid, Rod Dietz, Mike Gilreath, Kevin Goff, [John Rosendal 1:49:16], [RJ 1:49:17], Amy, McMonagle, [Angelokas 1:49:20], you know, and run right down the list a folks… Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Kevin Beard: …and [tsk] ya develop relationships and friendships. Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Kevin Beard: Oh, geez. [Joe Halstead 1:49:29] and [Tom] [Inaudible 1:49:31] and right on down the list. All these people. I – too many to name’m. And when the day is done, that’s the most satisfying part of it [voice wavering] and see, I’m gettin’ emotional about it [laughter] thinkin’ about it. It’s… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: You know you’ve made a contribution… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …you know you’ve done good [voice wavering] work… Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Kevin Beard: …when the people you work with respect your work… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …spend time with ya, [tsk] enjoy your company… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …and ya develop relationships out of it. [tsk] Marilyn Coulter: [Inaudible 1:50:11]. Kevin Beard: Lookin’ back, that’s gonna [voice wavering] be the best part a the whole thing. Marilyn Coulter: That’s [great 1:50:17]. [Inaudible 1:50:20]. And… Kevin Beard: So y-, you asked about the closing a the plant. [tsk] Um. And I’m lookin’ at this, uh, probably a little bit differently because I didn’t spend all my career at Fisher. I’ve watched [laughter] – you know, I left the plant, it closed, and it got reborn a couple a times but I, I walked away from it and – into Fisher because I thought I had a better future there and turn out I did. You know, I, I’ve had tremendous opportunities that I may not have had had I stuck with Plant 2 and gone back… Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Kevin Beard: …‘cause I woulda been bounced around and lord knows what woulda happened. [sniffing] Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: So, you know, if, if, if we weren’t lookin’ at goin’ to the Delta plant, I’d be a m-, a lot more depressed about the closing of Fisher but knowin’ that we’ve got a whole brand-new facility to go to with brand-new models to build probably for the next 4 or 5 years, um, I think we’re in a great position. And so while there’s certainly a sad side to seein’ the facility close and the way things had been done in the past come to an end, we’ve also got a great future ahead of us and we’re really fortunate we’re in the right place at the right time… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …with the right people that Lansing is the center a General Motors’ universe right now. As, as a community, this is the, this is the center a the universe and, you know, the corporation needs to get back on track, they need to be successful, they need to sell a lot more cars, they need to reclaim market share or all of our futures are in jeopardy. [tsk] And we’re in a position to curn-, control a portion of our destiny here. Um. It’s an opportunity not very many people have in their… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kevin Beard: …life. Marilyn Coulter: [Inaudible 1:52:26]. I’ve – we’ve totally enjoyed, um, our interview with you today. Is there anything that, um, we haven’t touched on that you’d like to touch on before we close out this interview? Kevin Beard: [laughter] Oh, heaven’s sakes. Who knows? Somebody’ll ask me a question in another day or two or I’ll… Cheryl McQuaid: [throat clearing] Kevin Beard: …leave here and think a all I shoulda said, but I’m just glad you guys are doin’ this frankly. Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Well, thank you for your time and for a great interview. Kevin Beard: Glad to do it. Jerri Smith: Thank you, Kevin. Cheryl McQuaid: Thank you. John Fedewa: Thank you, Kevin. Gary Judy: Thanks, Kevin. /ad