Rusty Zeigler discusses his career as a production worker, UAW committeeman and member of the Bargaining Committee at the Fisher Body plant in Lansing, MI


Cheryl McQuaid:	This is the Lansing Fisher Body Historical Team. Today is Friday, June 16th, 2006. It’s approximately 1:00 p.m. We’re at the UAW Local 602 Frank Dryer GreenHouse. I am Cheryl McQuaid. Also here is...

Jerri Smith:	Jerri Smith.

Cheryl McQuaid:	...and we are interviewing today Rusty Zeigler. [0:25] Rusty, will you state your name and spell it for us?

Rusty Zeigler:	 My name’s Rusty Zeigler; it’s spelled R-U-S-T-Y Z-E-I-G-L-E-R.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[0:34] And what is your address?

Rusty Zeigler:	9354 East Parks Road, Ovid, Michigan, zip code’s 48866.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[0:42] Are you married? Do you have children?

Rusty Zeigler:	Yes, I’m married with two children; one boy and one girl.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[0:46] Where were you born and raised?

Rusty Zeigler:	St. John’s. I was raised in the Ovid area.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[0:51] What’s your educational level?

Rusty Zeigler:	 12th grade.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[0:55] And were you in the military?

Rusty Zeigler:	No.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[0:58] What did your parents do for a living?

Rusty Zeigler:	My dad worked at Fisher Body.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[1:03] And what did you do before you, before you hired into Fisher Body?

Rusty Zeigler:	Started out workin’ on a farm when I was 9 years old. When I graduated high school, I travelled around Michigan and Indiana, little bit of Ohio with a taco stand sellin’ tacos at fairs. When I came back in Ionia for the Ionia Free Fair, my grandfather told me they were hirin’ at Midwest Abrasive in Wausau.  I went over there and applied on a Monday, got hired on a Friday, and started workin’ there the next Monday. Walked outta there, worked there for not quite a year, I kept puttin’ lap cases in here at Fisher Body, kept puttin’m in, puttin’m in. Finally I got hired here on August the 8th of ’76.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[1:45] And can you tell me a little bit about puttin’ your application in at the Plant? What was it like to do that?

Rusty Zeigler:	Just come over – actually, when I came over, it was just walk in, put in an application, ‘cause it wasn’t really a big hiring thing, there wasn’t no big lines. It was basically just walk in, go into Personnel, and put in an application.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[2:06] Why did you want to get into Fisher Body?

Rusty Zeigler:	The money.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[2:10] And how did you know they were hiring?

Rusty Zeigler:	My dad worked there so he kept tellin’ me, “Hey, they’re hirin’, they’re hirin’. Why don’t ya put your application in?” Which when I first got outta school, they weren’t hirin’, but I still kept puttin’ my application in anyway. Then in ’76 they started hirin’, so I got hired.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[2:25] Do you think your dad helped with getting [coughing] [hired 2:27]?

Rusty Zeigler:	Uh, with his reputation, probably not.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[2:33] And do you have any other family members at Fisher Body?

Rusty Zeigler:	Yes. I had my brother [Randy 2:40] worked here, which he ended up optin’ to go to Saturn so he didn’t break seniority. My brother [Robert 2:47] hired into Fisher Body, which now he’s at LDT. My brother [Rod 2:49] hired in over here at Fisher Body, got laid off, and he ended up goin’ time-for-time, so he no longer works for GM.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[2:58] How old were you when you hired into the Plant?

Rusty Zeigler:	18.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[3:03] And what shift and department?

Rusty Zeigler:	I hired in at first shift, Trim Department, on the small system, building the [cars 3:11].

Cheryl McQuaid:	[3:12] So the A System.

Rusty Zeigler:	Yeah, A System.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[3:17] Can you tell me a little bit what it was like to walk into the Plant the first time?

Rusty Zeigler:	Different. But I’d already worked at a plant, or factory when I worked in Owasso so I’d kinda knew what a factory was like. With my dad workin’ there, he kinda told me. But the people were pretty decent. Walk in, they had no problems talkin’ to ya. They, uh, broke ya in on the job real well. Actually, back then, you got broke in by “Here’s what ya do” and the guy turned around and he’s gone so you figured out how to do it pretty quick.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[3:45] And how long did you do that job?

Rusty Zeigler:	Uh, I hired in and was boltin’ down seatbelts. When we had big ol’ retractors, you had to bolt’m down through the side a the car. Oh, I did that job for a good 2 years. Transferred then to the Garnish Molding Area puttin’ in the garnish ‘cause that was a 3, 3-man team, and they were doin’ a whole lot less work than I was. [coughing]

Cheryl McQuaid:	[4:13] Do you remember the person that taught you your first job?

Rusty Zeigler:	Yes, I do. Tryin’ to remember her name. [Annie 4:22].

Cheryl McQuaid:	[4:23] So there were some females workin’ in the Plant...

Rusty Zeigler:	Oh yeah.

Cheryl McQuaid:	...when you hired in.

Rusty Zeigler:	Annie was a African-American lady. Lotta fun. Always joked around, had a good time. She was transferrin’ to, uh, QC.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[4:38] Tell me a little bit about the environment of the Trim Shop.

Rusty Zeigler:	Pretty happy-go-lucky. Uh, guys were constantly playin’ jokes. Uh, the guys on Garnish Mold, I remember we’d go get one a the, uh, ties you would go around a box and we’d screw it to the inside a their stock wrap then screw it to the bottom a the little stool they sat on, which was about a foot and a half long, maybe 6 to 8 inches high, had a little tray across the front that they put all the different screws in that they would use, so when they’d grab it outta the rack, take it off, and head down the Line with it, the, uh, little strap would come tight and stuff would go flyin’. [laughter]

Cheryl McQuaid:	[5:13] Do you remember any a the other pranks that used to...

Rusty Zeigler:	Oh yeah.

Cheryl McQuaid:	...happen?

Rusty Zeigler:	We used to climb up in the rafters at the beginning a the shift, put a bucket up there, and then put a Playboy centerfold on the back a the stock rack and wait for a supervisor or somethin’ to come along, look at the Playboy centerfold, and the guy on the other side a the Line would pull the rope and we’d kinda dump the 5-gallon bucket a water down over the top a whoever was lookin’ at the centerfold. And I remember when I hired in, uh, it was always a good thing about throwin’ people in the trunk. Well, unfortunately, a few times – well, several times they threw me in, so I actually built me a tool I could open the trunk from the inside after a couple episodes. But one time they threw me in, somebody decided to take the keys to the car, so when they finally got all the way over to repair, they took a pry bar, pried the deck lid open, handed me in the tools to take the, uh, inside a the deck lid off so they could get me out, and I remember when I stepped out it looked like a salary convention, ‘cause back then everybody always wore the same color shirt that day, they all had ties on, and I looked like I was outta place when I climbed outta that trunk.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[6:19] Was anybody disciplined for that or?

Rusty Zeigler:	Yeah, I spent a day and a half in the office. They were lookin’ to fire the guys that put me in. But wasn’t nobody gonna tell who did it.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[6:30] Ya kinda stuck together?

Rusty Zeigler:	Y-, oh yeah. Yeah, they were gonna stick together; they weren’t squealin’, and we told the guys if anybody ever did squeal or if the guys found out, we were all gonna take up the [inaudible 6:39] and make sure they paid their wages for the time they got sent out in the street anyway, so. We was gonna cover’m.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[6:48] When you first were hired in, did you – did they just tell ya to go to this area? How were you placed on the job?

Rusty Zeigler:	They just walked me up to the Line, said, “That’s the job you’re gonna do. She’s gonna break ya in.” So you started doin’ the job.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[7:07] Can you tell us what a typical day is like in the Plant?

Rusty Zeigler:	Back then, it was fun when we hired in. Guys joked around, always were playin’ pranks, people were always hollerin’ up and down the Line, playin’ cards on breaks, playin’ chess on breaks. Lot different than the environment today. People don’t joke around today because they’re afraid somebody’s gonna say somethin’ or the attitudes are a lot different. The younger people hirin’ in, playin’ around is not somethin’ generally you see too many of’m do anymore.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[7:37] When do you think that changed? Why did it change?

Rusty Zeigler:	I’d say it started changin’ around 10, 15 years ago, just the difference in the people comin’ in. Ya know, the laws change where I can offend her now or offend him by sayin’ somethin’ about their long hair or their gender or their race or jokin’ around and havin’ fun with each other. Back then, we was all one. We really didn’t care who you were or what you were; we just joked around and had a good time. Nowadays, ya look at the guy across the Line, he might look at ya and next thing ya know you’re goin’ to the office because I was starin’ at ya too long. The attitudes have really changed.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[8:14] Back then, how did ya – what’d you do to pass the time? Did ya bring in a lunch? Did you go someplace for lunch? What’d you do on breaks?

Rusty Zeigler:	Back then I brung in a lunch. Then usually on break we just stood around, shot the shit, and, uh, enjoyed talkin’ to each other and creatin’ friendships. I mean, I created a lotta friends. Couple of us always used to go fishin’ when we’d get outta work, we used to go to the racetrack together; uh, we did a lotta things together. Nowadays, you see that somewhat, but I don’t think nothin’ like what ya used to. Back then, we used to have departmental softball games, one department playin’ another department. You don’t hear of much a that happening anymore.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[8:56] And is it same thing? People just aren’t as close?

Rusty Zeigler:	Yeah. I think people now when they get outta work just wanna go home, don’t – I mean, you can run into some a the people ya work with in stores and they might look at ya but they don’t talk. Back then, you ran into somebody you worked with, they introduced you to their wife, their families. Uh, I mean, you’ll run into the rare person now that’ll still do that, but nothin’ like ya used to.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[9:24] Did you ever participate in the departmental dinners?

Rusty Zeigler:	Oh yeah. Back then, very few people never did. I mean, almost everybody brung in a dish to pass. Excellent meals, more to eat than you could even dream to eat. Uh, nowadays, most people still do. That’s the one thing I think that still happens is departmental dinners. I just don’t think we have as many of’m now as what we used to. I mean, back then, you had a departmental dinner almost every Friday. Some small areas now ya still do, and I guess that’s one a the changes I’m seein’ now that we’re out to the LDT is I’m startin’ to see it go back to the departments or areas havin’ a Fri-, Friday dinner, uh, doin’ things a little bit more together, because I think the environment is changin’ a lot out there at LDT. It’s more us, and I think the environment’s really changing.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[10:17] So you think maybe we’ll get that back?

Rusty Zeigler:	Yeah, I do. I think right now you’re seein’ people form a lotta friendships, go do a lotta things together. I think you’re seein’ the people start to stick together more due to the fact, I think, because the people are gaining power to run the, uh, Plant more, and I think that’s makin’ the people feel a little better. I mean, when you create a friendly, fun workplace, and I know fun and work don’t go together in the same sentence, but actually out there, I’ve heard people use fun and work in the same sentence, unlike the last 10, 15 years over here. So things are changin’.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[10:56] So 10, 15 years ago, that might put us right around the time when the, the Plant went through its major change from Fisher Body to BOC to LCA. Do you think maybe that had anything to do with it?

Rusty Zeigler:	No, because everybody still calls it Fisher Body. The only time ya had to remember what it was called [throat clearing] when ya was fillin’ out your unemployment papers, or papers, and most people still wrote Fisher Body, and most a the companies around town or areas still knew everything as Fisher Body.

Cheryl McQuaid:	But we also had a lot of new supervisors come in at that time from the chasse side of the, of town.

Rusty Zeigler:	Actually, that’s probably what started makin’ it – most a the – back in the old days, if you were a supervisor, it’s because you were one of us and you became a supervisor, and yeah, probably around that transition period’s when ya seen’m start hirin’ these college kids, the younger generation a supervisors what’s came in and management would say, “Well, you gotta do this, do this, and do this if you expect to go anywhere,” and I think they came in thinkin’ they had to go right straight by the rulebooks, there was no fun and games. If they felt they were gonna work up the Line, and when I think, uh, GM changed it where you want such-and-such a college education, you gotta be such-and-such a degree now to become a manager, unlike before; you worked on the Line, next thing you know, you were a supervisor. They were us. There was no difference. Then that’s about when the time were, “Well, I’m hirin’ you ‘cause you got a 4-year college degree and etc. and etc., and I think that’s probably when it started changin’ the [throat clearing] environment.

Cheryl McQuaid:	I wanna touch on the environment in the Plant now. [12:38] Did you have a radio?

Rusty Zeigler:	No.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[12:41] How did you feel about radios [inaudible 12:43]?

Rusty Zeigler:	I didn’t like’m. Well, my past history with radios is I could care less if a guy played a radio, but when I got elected on as a union official, radios were one a the things where it created fights and animosity between people because everybody had a radio and everybody felt that they wanted to listen to their own station. So the people, one guy’s turnin’ his up, the other one’s turnin’ his up on a favorite song, and the next thing ya know, somebody’s cuttin’ somebody’s wires, their antenna’s comin’ up missin’, uh, and it started to create problems ‘cause people just wanted to play their own song, and ya get the younger generation in here where they gotta crank it up. I don’t know if it’s ‘cause they’re partially deaf or it’s just a fad, and that started creating people with the older guy that used to have a set here listenin’ to the country music or whatever ya listen to. When the new guys came in, had to keep crankin’ it up all the time, it did start creatin’ some animosity. So my idea behind the radio, I could really care if we ever have a damn radio in the Plant. [laughter]

Cheryl McQuaid:	You mentioned that you were a Committeeman. [13:50] What year did you become a Committeeman and why?

Rusty Zeigler:	Why did I become a Committeeman? ‘Cause of the few times I logged frequent flier miles goin’ out the door.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[14:01] So you were put on disciplinary.

Rusty Zeigler:	Several times.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[14:04] Why?

Rusty Zeigler:	Why? Because I had a big mouth. I had a habit a tellin’ people what I thought and some managers didn’t care for that. So yeah, one time I went out the door and I looked, and I worked on one side a the Line and was bein’ thrown out the door for somethin’ that was done on the other side a the Line. I thought, “Hm.” So I volunteered to be a alternate, alternate, just to see what it was like. Kinda enjoyed it, so they I ran for Alternate Committee. Alternate for a couple years, then I became a District for a few terms. Then probably the stupidest move I ever made is when I ran for Shop Committee, because then you’re not workin’ with the people on the floor, and I actually really enjoy workin’ with the people on the floor more than I did bein’ on the Shop Committee, which now I’m back as just an Alternate and I enjoy the crap outta workin’ with the people on the floor.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[14:53] What were s-, what are some a the problems that the people on the floor have? Why did they need a Committeeman?

Rusty Zeigler:	Why? Job might be overloaded. Uh, basically, though, most a the time, a person needs representation on the floor is ‘cause they gotta a shitty attitude, they got a bad boss, absenteeism problem, and absenteeism’s probably your number one reason you gotta go out and represent people, ‘cause they don’t like to come to work. Uh, just issues like that. Can’t get along with other people.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[15:29] Did you ever participate in Plant vending and foods, drinks, those types of items?

Rusty Zeigler:	If somebody was sellin’ somethin’, once in a while I’d buy somethin’, but I never sold anything. Only.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[15:38] What kinda things could ya buy in there?

Rusty Zeigler:	Oh, you could buy burritos, hamburgers, breakfast sandwiches, uh, a variety a things. Somebody always had a coffee pot set up where you go over and get – usually, next thing ya know, the coffee pot would lead into crackers, cheese and crackers and, and donuts and everything else that the guys start to bring in, and some a the guys actually made pretty good money. Even if a guy brings in 50 breakfast burritos for a buck apiece, he’s makin’ some pretty good money every day. And usually it was their wives who’d get up and make it and then they’d just bring it in and sell it.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[16:13] And was that ever a problem bein’ a Committeeman?

Rusty Zeigler:	Oh yah. ‘Cause it was against the Plant rules to sell stuff, have coffee pots, uh, and things of that nature, but little more laid back at Fisher Body. A lotta that was kinda overlooked unless the cafeteria would start complainin’ about somebody doin’ somethin’ or somebody would get sick, but generally management would buy just as much stuff as anybody else. Now, I know when we transitioned to LDT, the two guys already in and done it and they’ve already been stopped. But basically that came from a complaint from the cafetorium, ‘cause the cafetorium we do have is more like goin’ to a family restaurant. I mean, you can go up and you get quite a wide variety of meals, uh, very nice round tables to set at, nice chairs; it’s more like a decent restaurant. Price ain’t bad and meals are good. So I can understand them not wantin’ the guys standin’ outside the door sellin’ burritos in the mornin’ when they’re tryin’ to serve breakfast. So, I mean, they gotta make money too.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[17:19] Has a Skilled Trades person ever done a government job for you?

Rusty Zeigler:	Yup. If you got a good relationship with Skilled Trades, the best way to get things done is just go talk to a Trades guy and get things done, because, ya know, when I needed a fan moved or somethin’ like ‘at, it’s so much easier if you got a decent relationship with a Skilled Trades person. So yeah, I’ve had several government jobs done for me.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[17:44 ] What is a government job?

Rusty Zeigler:	Where ya don’t fill out a work order and it’s basically somethin’ he shouldn’t be doin’ because the work order stuff’s not filled out, things aren’t logged. Oh, maybe I even need a little thing [inaudible 17:55] for my racecar. I might bring somethin’ in, maybe somebody’d go down and turn somethin’ down, or maybe I needed a nut and bolt back then, and the guys would go help me out and take care of it. You needed a bench changed, somethin’ rack moved, instead a doin’ the work order, you just, the guys would show up and do it for ya, which is decent, and I think at LDT, you’re gonna see a big change in that too, because now we have Team Leaders for Skilled Trades and Team Members just like we do on the Line, and we’re actually all out there together.

	They’re right there in the same group room right by us, and since we’ve been out there, you’ve got the Skilled Trades Team Members as Team Leaders right there working with the, uh, team leaders and team members from, uh, Production tryin’ to form that relationship again so you don’t have to monkey around with work orders; you can just, you become one again, and that’s where I’m seein’ a lotta the old ways comin’ back over there, and the communications and people workin’ together again for a chance instead a you’re a Trades Worker [inaudible 18:53], we don’t want nothin’ to do with you ‘cause ya sit on your butt all day.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[18:57] And is that why – do you think that’s why, um, Production had a problem with Skilled Trades? They viewed them as sitting on their butts all day?

Rusty Zeigler:	Sure is. You walk by a Skilled Trades, uh, cubby hole, half the time, there’s where your microwave is that just came up missin’ outta one a the break rooms. Uh, they always had dinners in there cooking and stuff like that, and walked by and see that Trades guy settin’ in there sleepin’, and Production people aren’t happy when the Trades guy just settin’ there doin’ nothin’ all goddamn day and that guy out there’s actually buildin’ the cars, the one that’s actually makin’ his wages for him. And now I think things are gonna change. I think you’re gonna see the relationship come back again.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[19:38] When you were on a, as Committeeman and then you went to be a Zone – is that – did I say the right thing? What was...


Rusty Zeigler:	Yeah, you did.

Cheryl McQuaid:	...what was the difference between those two positions?

Rusty Zeigler:	When you were a Committeeman, you dealt with the people on the floor. When you became a Zone, you didn’t deal with nothin’ until it was too late, the problem was already there, and then ya had to figure out who was lyin’ and who was tellin’ the truth from both sides to actually try to resolve the problem. So usually when you were there, all hell’d already broke loose, the problem has already been exploded, and it was a lot harder to try to take care a the issue. When you’re out there on the floor, you can deal with the issue and it doesn’t always need to get to, to the Zone. You’re a good District, take care a your own shit; it don’t need to move up.  It made it much more fu-, I love workin’ with the people on the floor, ‘cause a liar’s a liar, asshole’s an asshole, drunk’s a drunk; tell’m, issue’s over. Don’t baby it and go write the guy a grievance ‘cause he’s half-ass drunk and they threw him out the door for a week. Guy’s drunk, he’s drunk; he’ll learn his lesson.

Cheryl McQuaid:	Do you remember – no, not do you remember. [20:52] When you were the Zone or the Committeeman, what was a good boss to work with? What made a good supervisor or a bad supervisor?

Rusty Zeigler:	What made a good supervisor is wan-, wanted to run his own area and you could sit down and talk to, work things out, because he’s know a drunk from a drunk too and he didn’t wanna see the guy lose his job either, or an asshole from an asshole, but ya still needed to get a day’s work outta these people, and he’d be more than willin’ to help try to get him into programs or work with’m, ‘cause sometimes when a good guy turns into an asshole, it’s a family problem or somethin’ on the outside a here, and usually a good boss, you could set down with him and the guy would talk. If ya had a shitty boss, it didn’t make no difference; that boss was just gonna throw’m in the street, he could care less. He just didn’t have the heart and the feelings; he’d just soon turn, “Ah, my boss says I’m a throw’m in the street and didn’t, didn’t deal with his own problem.”

Cheryl McQuaid:	[21:48] Can you tell us what is one of your best memories of Fisher Body? [papers rustling]

Rusty Zeigler:	Back in the days where we just used to go play ball together. Uh, we used to go picnic together. A lotta of us used to go fishing together. We just used to go and do a lotta things together, even outside a the factory, not just inside a the factory, and a lotta that went away, and I hope to see it come back.

Cheryl McQuaid:	Jerri Smith.

Jerri Smith:	[22:12] By play ball together and fish together and picnic together, do you mean management and?

Rusty Zeigler:	No, just us guys.

Jerri Smith:	Just the...

Rusty Zeigler:	The...

Jerri Smith:	...the workers.

Rusty Zeigler:	...the, workers. We’d get together in a department, we’d challenge some other department for a softball and who was gonna pay for the keg a beer or our wives would show up, ya know, we’d have a little picnic. And we had [inaudible 22:36] little tournaments, ya know?

Jerri Smith:	Each department.

Rusty Zeigler:	Yeah. We’d play another department. It was fun. And I know now, at LDT, last summer, actually the Quality Console, which it consists of management and union, uh, rented the, uh, Francis Park Pavilion and we had all the group leaders, which are the supervisors, and the teams leaders and the team members, we all went over there for a picnic one afternoon. We had a meeting at the shop at 10:30, 11:00 and the next meeting was scheduled for Francis Park and that’s we worked the rest a the day. So ya see a lotta that changin’ again.

Cheryl McQuaid:	But once again, the people that are actually doin’ the job on the Line didn’t go to that picnic.

Rusty Zeigler:	Oh yeah we did.

Cheryl McQuaid:	Everybody went.

Rusty Zeigler:	We all went.

Cheryl McQuaid:	There were no jobs on the line, right.

Rusty Zeigler:	Right then...

Cheryl McQuaid:	So.

Rusty Zeigler:	...there was no jobs on the line but management paid the wages [coughing] for the day [coughing] and our work that day was set at Francis Park. We went over there, uh, area managers showed up, the, uh, plant managers and all them showed up, we cooked the hotdogs together, the hamburgers together, we sat there and ate together.

Cheryl McQuaid:	So a true company picnic...

Rusty Zeigler:	It.

Cheryl McQuaid:	...from the ’50s.

Rusty Zeigler:	Well, I wouldn’t say it was true company; it was us. It – right now, over there, if you walk the floor, you will not tell one manager from a team member. They all look alike, they all dress alike, and, well, anybody you walk up to can give you the same information whether he’s management or union. You would not know one person [tapping] from another now, like the old days were. They wore a suit, tie, jacket, shirt; walk in over there now, it’s back like it used to be.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[24:10] Um, one thing that used to happen in the ’70s, ’80s, used to have a [tapping] lotta rumors in the Plant. Could you touch a little bit on some a the rumors and?

Rusty Zeigler:	Oh you mean like rumors where the news hires go down and get ya turkey for Christmas? [laughter] Uh, “rumor is that line’s gonna shut down,” “The rumor is so-and-so just got fired,” “The rumor so-and-so is screwin’ so-and-so’s wife.” All them rumors still exist. Ain’t changed one bit about the rumors. And the rumors are the biggest enemy of any company. People that start rumors with somebody, I’ll stick a hot poker up their ass [laughter] because rumors will destroy things, and tryin’ to put out rumors, you could spend 50% a your week tryin’ to destroy rumors. It’s because like to start rumors, and that’s usually your naysayers, or if somebody didn’t listen well in a meeting, they were halfway sleepin’ or just wasn’t payin’ attention, or they didn’t understand somethin’ so instead of asking a question so they understood it, they go back out, they try to say what they think they heard, and that starts rumors. Rumors are bad. And you’ll never stop rumors.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[25:24] So do you think that communication is better so that it’s not, the rumors aren’t comin’ from upper management; it’ll be more of a floor thing, a joke?

Rusty Zeigler:	It ain’t a joke thing. It’s just somebody didn’t understand somethin’. Or you got some people that would just as soon start a rumor just to see what it sounds like when it got back to’m. There’s people who do that. But, uh, nowadays though, uh, it’s union and management standin’ there together to try to destroy the rumors. You see union and management workin’ together and walkin’ together instead of “it’s them and us.” It’s now “us,” period.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[26:01] Do you have a saddest memory of Fisher Body?

Rusty Zeigler:	Yeah. When we closed the damn doors and walked out. I mean, it was sad. I mean, a lot of us had been there for our whole lives, knew nothin’ else. But I guess the happiest moment was, we actually walked outta there, which was pretty sad for a lotta pe-, I seen a lotta people cry. I mean, they just didn’t know what to do ‘cause we was walkin’ outta there. But the bright point to that was, it was happy as hell ‘cause was walkin’ outta there and walkin’ into a new facility, hopefully a new beginning; totally different environment and somethin’ new. I mean, I’ve had guys over there set there and sayin’ when they walked in that they thought they just woke up out of a 25-year, uh, coma [coughing] because they can’t believe the attitudes and I can’t tell one person from another, and the environment’s changed, and I hope it continues to change. That’s we’ve agreed to work jointly, gonna do everything together over there; teach all the classes together, we do the things together so hopefully we walk the talk.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[27:04] And how ‘bout a funniest moment?

Rusty Zeigler:	Watchin’ somebody get thrown in the barrel upside down, somebody tappin’ on it with a hammer ‘till they tipped it over and rolled him out. I remember it used to be funnier than shit watchin’ that happen. Or somebody getting’ that bucket a water dumped on their head. It used to be fairly humorous. I mean, there was a lotta good funny things’d go on in there.

Cheryl McQuaid:	And you mentioned that there used to be pinups on the walls.

Rusty Zeigler:	Oh yeah. You used to see Playboy pictures hung up, uh, all kinds a things like ‘at. Calendars hung up. You don’t see none a that no more.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[27:38] When did that...

Rusty Zeigler:	You actually...

Cheryl McQuaid:	...change?

Rusty Zeigler:	...hang somethin’ up like ‘at now, ya find your ass sittin’ in the street, just due to I think our work environment’s changed and laws have changed, people are sue-happy now. Uh, people can say they’re offended just to try to get outta workin’ so they can get money for somethin’. Uh, back then, people didn’t do that. You didn’t sue each other just ‘cause you looked at each other crosswise. Now people sue people. I mean, you got people out there sue people every day just to try to earn a living. Things have changed.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[28:14] Lansing is, was known as the Capitol of Quality. Why do you think that is?

Rusty Zeigler:	‘Cause the people cared. They cared about the product they put off the end a the line, unlike a lotta areas. Plus I think the union and management relationship in the Lansing area is probably far surpassed most a the union and management relationships in a lotta the other plants and stuff I’ve ever walked into. It’s “Let’s try to work together.” I guess maybe that’s why we got the new plant, unlike a lotta places that are closing, because they can’t get along, and we said, “Hey, this is what we gotta do. We’ll work on that.” And watchin’ things right now that we did to have to get that plant and watchin’ the changes already to get back to where we used to be on transfers and vacations and things a that. Management sets up there and they understand that, and a lotta them were there when they negotiated the contract, and they knew we just did what we had to to get the plant, and things are changin’ already. They understand that. So I think that makes a big difference in the quality when people work together.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[29:19] Speaking a the quality, you mentioned that when you were a Committeeperson you had, you’d have to go out and, ya know, if you liked workin’ with the people, a drunk’s a drunk. Was drinking a big issue there?

Rusty Zeigler:	Oh yeah. Hell, I remember back when hired in, we used to sneak out at lunch, put rubber bands up on my leg, bring back 2 or 3 pints, a fifth. [coughing] Drinkin’ back then, everybody drank and nobody got in trouble for it. Everybody covered each other and they did their jobs.

Cheryl McQuaid:	Rubber bands [throat clearing] on your pants? I don’t understand.

Rusty Zeigler:	Up under the, under my legs to hold the bottles to my legs underneath my pants...

Cheryl McQuaid:	Oh.

Rusty Zeigler:	...so they didn’t fall out goin’ back through the guard check; take’m back, stash’m in your toolbox. I mean, you had’m tucked in your belt, you, you stashed a bottle – ‘cause I mean, one guy might go out and bring back a bottle for 8, 10 different people, so everybody wanted somethin’ different so you’d bring back more than one bottle. One bottle doesn’t go very far with a whole buncha people drinkin’ out of it. I remember that one day, we’s bringin’ back some, uh, gin, and that smells like pine, and, eh, one guy accidentally dropped a fifth on the floor and it broke – didn’t get to drink much of it either – and that boss come walkin’ down there and he smelt that and he lookin’ around. ‘Course we had the glass all cleaned up, but he knew damn well we’s drinkin’. 

	Ya know, and I had this one old boss that we’d set there on Friday night and we’d all drink. Every time I turn around, I found my glass empty, and I’m tryin’ to figure out why my glass empty. I’m thinkin’ one a my guys are drinkin’ my damn booze and my pop, ya know? Finally I kept watchin’; the supervisor was comin’ around there drinkin’, ya know, and set the cup back half empty, ya know, and I’m goin’, “Well goddamn.” Ya know, he’d come up and, and he noticed I seen him, so I went and got me another cup, poured me another drink, mixed it up, set it there, and he’d come down and he’d pick that cup and he sniffed it and he goes, “Ya know,” he said, “I don’t think that pop’s any good comin’ outta the machine.” He said, “I think it’s stale.” So he dropped it in the trash can. ‘Cause he knew all, most of us had enough to drink, we was already gettin’ in bad shape, and he’d come down and just smell and say, “Oh, that’s bad pop outta the machine. I’ll call and tell’m to get you a new pop,” then the asshole would throw our pop away, which had our booze in it. [laughter] [tapping]

	Ya know, I’ve seen guys pass out and we stuffed’m in the stock rack till we could wake him up and go home. [tapping] That don’t happen no more. You get caught drinkin’ now, your ass is headed for the street. [tapping] You still got the guys come in drunk, but off to Delta, you ain’t gonna have the drinkin’ problem like you used to have. Harry’s don’t exist.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[31:46] What’d you think about Harry’s?

Rusty Zeigler:	Harry’s? Created a lotta grief.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[31:51] Did you ever go there?

Rusty Zeigler:	That man got rich over a lot of our people goin’ over there and losin’ their paycheck. I mean, he would cash our checks. Some people, by the end a the week, would just go over and give him the paycheck. I know some guys when they got ready to go to break, the pitcher a beer already set there, 4 or 5 shots set there, and it was like they couldn’t get through the day if they didn’t run over there and have their shot and their beer. Harry got rich off GM and the guys in that plant. Some a those guys that used to run over there would realize how much money they blew every week over there, it could sure make their lives different, and a lotta guys, because it was so convenient, were just hooked. If they didn’t get to run over and have their beer at break, didn’t get to run over and have their booze at lunch and their breaks, [coughing] they actually couldn’t get through the day. One thing about LDT, it’s paid lunch. You wanna punch out, go ahead, but there ain’t no bar close enough for you to get to in a half-hour. [tapping]

Cheryl McQuaid:	[32:47] What about drugs? Were drugs ever a issue in the plant?

Rusty Zeigler:	Oh hell yeah. We used to set there and I’d watch guys smoke, pass a joint up and down the line. I mean, a guy’d light it, pass it up and down the line, just go at it steady. There was more than just pot in there. I remember one a my experiences were – hell, I’s a kid, I didn’t know. I’s a farm boy. Drugs weren’t somethin’ we did; we worked. And this one kid, guy at work crossed the line from me comin’ in one day with a hot loaf a zucchini bread, says, “Hey, here, have a couple slices.” Shit, I was down in the bathroom by lunch pukin’ my guts, I seen bugs crawlin’ up the wall. That’s back when the true statement of seein’ pink polka-dotted elephants walkin’ around. [laughter] They said 3, 4 times that night I walked out and they’d go get me and drag me back, ‘cause I didn’t know what the hell I was doin’, and they’d just – ya know, most a the guys that he knew knew it, that he laced it with more than just pot, but hell, I’s a farm boy; I didn’t know any better. He just gave me two pieces, so I ate it. It was good bread, didn’t taste like nothin’ but zucchini bread. Sure would kill ya, though. [tapping] I puked green for a long time that night.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[33:54] Any idea what he ever laced it with?

Rusty Zeigler:	Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He had pot, ya cook it in butter, and some a the stuff ya used to spray it with to make it grow. ‘Cause he raised it right in his cornfield, right in the cornrows. He was a good – he raised a lotta pot. [tapping] Shit would hurt ya. [tapping]

Cheryl McQuaid:	[34:16] Rusty, as we get ready to close this interview, is there anything that you’d like to share with us that we’ve not asked you?

Rusty Zeigler:	No, we’ve covered a lotta stuff. But it was just a good time. Good memories. I wouldn’t give up these memories I’ve got from workin’ in that plant or workin’ with these people for anything. Uh, I mean, I got enough time right now to retire, and nope; I, I enjoy workin’ with those people out there.  And I do got a lotta things I do outside a here; I race cars, I got my own weld shop, but I started in that plant and I started this new plant, and I’m gonna finish it. I’m gonna make sure that car, that damn thing builds cars. Uh, but the memories, wouldn’t trade’m for anything. Most of’m are all good, and the bad ones, forget the hell about’m; just remember the good ones. Who gives a shit about the bad memories? Remember the good times.

Cheryl McQuaid:	I have one more question for you, Rusty.

Rusty Zeigler:	That figures.

Cheryl McQuaid:	[35:06] What was one of your favorite jobs in the Plant and one of your worst jobs?

Rusty Zeigler:	Well, I guess I got two fa-, I love doin’ garnish mold. When I used to do garnish mold, it was fun. Good buncha guys to work with. But I love bein’ on committee, I love workin’ with the people. And I think actually my least favorite job was probably when I was Zone. I mean, I love the work, love doin’ it, I love tryin’ to make the place what it was, but it wasn’t as much fun as just right there firsthand workin’ with the people. I just, I enjoy work-, I enjoy pickin’ on people, I enjoy goofin’ around, which I still do. Lotta the new people come into that plant there don’t know me, and I don’t mix too many words and I hate bein’ misinterpreted, sometimes “go to hell” is better to say than a 20-minute political speech ‘cause a drunk’s a drunk and that’s just the bottom line. [laughter] Asshole’s an asshole. [throat clearing] Let’s just make it, [laughter] lay it out. So I enjoy it. I mean, I wouldn’t trade it for nothin’. There’s a lotta other things I could go do. Nope. I enjoy it.

Cheryl McQuaid:	Well, Rusty, thank you so much for spending your afternoon with us.

Jerri Smith:	Yes, thank you very much, Rusty.

Rusty Zeigler:	Oh, this was fun. [recorder clicking] Was that okay?

Cheryl McQuaid:	You did awesome. We knew you would.

Rusty Zeigler:	Ugh. [recorder clicking]


/rt