• John D.

6-9-92
Page 1

IB:

IA:

I

BOlles

Ob + be really. I didn't know tbat.

Oh , okay.

I·

Thisl is June 9, 1992.
interviewing John Bowles and we are at the
are ~oing to talk about Reo memories.

.

This is Shirley Bradley, Lisa Fine.

We are

R. E. Olds Museum and we

Bowles:

I

You rant me to start?

IA:

I

No ypu can ask different questions if you want.
usuailly just ask some personal information, just, you know, when you
werelborn and where you were born. where your fami.lYis frOID, like
that, so we can get a sense of where you are coming from.
So were
you ,orn in Lansing?

To start off with we

Bowles:

I

No, ~ was born in Mishawaka, Indiana.

IA:

Is trat .where you grew up or did your family move here?

I

Bowles:

I grrw up in Indiana, yeah.

IA:• Bowles:

IA:

Bowles:

I

Indirna, okay.

I c~e

to Lansing in 1931 .

And urn,did you come up yourself or with your family?

I

Okay I.

!

Yeah I.

I

IA:

You came up on your own to get work?

Urn, I went to work for ah, Louce Manufacturing

Bowles:

I

I care myself.
Cornp~ny.

IA:

I

What I was that?

Bowles:

I

Louce.

IA:

Bowles:

IB:

IA:

Bowles:

• IA:

Bowles:

, okay.

l

Loucel,
L 0 ? c e.

I

I

L 0 u c e.

I

Yeahl

I

Manufacturing

which made commercial bottoms.

Oh o~ay.

I

And f worked

there for seven years, I guess it was.

John D. Bowles
6-9-92
Page 2

IA:

How old were you when you started, right out of school, right out of
high school?

Bowles: Yes.

IA:

Okay.

Bowles: And um,

IB:

What kind of bodies did they make?

Like truck bodies?

Bowles:

Commercial bodies.

Commercial.

IA:

Commercial for?

Bowles: Um, National Biscuit Company, Ward Baking Company, Continental Baking

Company and the bodies they made.

IA:

Oh for the trucks. For the delivery

Bowles: The trucks.

IA:

Oh okay.
interesting.

I was just curious, I hadn't heard of, that was

IB:

And that was right here in Lansing, Louce?

Bowles:

Pardon me?

IA:

Loose was right here in Lansing?

Bowles: Yes. Yes. Ah, it used to be called, it used to be Hu Lines(?) which

was an old business factory in Lansing for I don't know how many
years. When I went to work for Louce when they started as
commercial. And the general manager came from the body shop in
Indiana ... and, of course, he brought some of the key help.

IA:

I see, so you had a connection, an in. Okay. And what did you do at
Louce?

Bowles: Ah I sprayed paint. And for 22 years of that.

IA:

IB:

IA:

In Louce, in the Louce

No he worked there for seven years.

Seven years?

Bowles:

Seven years.

•

•

•

•

John D.
6-9-92
Page 3

IB:

I

Bowles

I

I

You lorked for Louce for seven years?

Where did you go from there?

Bowles:

Reo. I

IA:

Oh yJu went

I

Bowles:

No, ~ went, I went over to Fisher Body and worked there '69 something
like!that, but it wasn't me (can't hear) I was working

.

IA:

I

That's too big, impersonal?

Bowles:

Bit.

IA:

IB:

No.

Evenjif working conditions weren't real good.

Bowles:

....

1 they put me washing bodies just before they went in to paint.

And ah, ... what they called the utility cab and ..... (can't hear)
Ah, but that was Fisher Body wasn't
and the very next day
for +e.
jobslI had and I went to work for (loud hum) ah,

And then from then I just oh a couple other little minor

.

IA:

Bowles:

IA:

IB:

Bowles:

IA:

IB:

Ah hf

oh.

and f worked for
Reo. I

short period of time and then I went to

And you said when we talked on the phone that you went in in '42 in
Reo ruring the war?

You forked pretty well during the '30's then,you
stated ...

weren't, you

I

Well~ I was
for ~ while and ah, hunted around there and come
sisttrs definitely was there and ah,
therr for a couple years and ah, no I was young

ah,

I

somewhat back in there

(can't hear)

brothers and

back

Duri~gthe

I

I

hard times, yeah.

You ~idn't have any roots down yet, so you could.
fathrr do, was he a farmer or

What did your

Bowles:

No, fo,he

was a ah, clerk in a store.

IB:

i

Dh okay.

!

Bowles:

But ~y father and mother and ah, 10 of us ....

I

•

•

John D. Bowles
6-9-92
Page 4

IB:

Ten children, my goodness.

Bowles:

Five boys and five girls.

IA:

IB:

Oh wow.

My what a wonderful family.

•

Bowles: And ah, well we got things done, we went to work.

IB:

I can imagine, to help out.

Bowles: You better believe it.

IB:

Yes.
job.

So you came out of high school and kind of went right into a
You graduated from high school?

Bowles: No, but I didn't graduate from high school.

IB:

You had to quit early maybe?

Bowles:

away from school. My last year of school I went right into a job

•

in Indiana.

IA:

In Indiana first.

Bowles:

I came up first thing.

(can't hear)

IA:

Times were pretty bad in 1931. Things were pretty bad in 1931.

Bowles: Yes, very bad.

Very bad.

I knew fellows who worked in a factory for

5 cents an hour, 6 cents an hour,

IA:

Is that right?

Bowles:

10 cents an hour.

And ah, ... families

IA:

There was no real job security either was there?

Bowles: No job security of any kind and no welfare of any kind, and you know,

IA:

No unemployment, like that.

Bowles: No unemployment insurance. Nothing like that. You just kept right
Of course, there was four of us boys
So, we got by alright.

on the best way you knew how.
...... old enough to work, you know.

IA:

Ah huh, when you were here in Lansing on your own in the '30's, did
you stay in a boardinghouse or

•

• John D.

6-9-92
Page 5

Bowles:

\

Bowles

I
A ..J

· . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..

in a private home.

IA:

In aihome, I see you got a room with a lodger.

Bowles:

Ah huh ,

IA:

IB:

I

Yeah·1

I

When Iyou went to Reo, was it because they were advertising for help
for 1he war effort?

Bowles:

No, ] knew ah, I knew the fellow that was ah, the foreman of the
I got acquainted with him.
pain~ department.

IA:

In some other job or just from social or

Bowles:

Yeah.1

I

IA:

socidl, socially?

•

Bowles:

And Jh. he called me and told me that they needed a painter and
needJd a sprayer for Diamond Reo

days II guess, something like that.

(can't hear)

Oh god, three
Sitting there waiting for the

emplqyment manager to make his mind up.

IA:

IB:

Oh my goodness.

Oh

No.

Bowles:

So he finally made his mind up and ah, I took the examination and

IA:

Oh you had to take an exam?

A written exam?

Bowles:

No just a physical exam.

IA:

Oh aphys ical, .okay.

Bowles:

And ah, they was spraying Army paint.
working with an elder man, I say elder, I presume he was 60 years
old, something like that.
once he was spraying what paint they callaO.

And ah, when he sprayed away and all at

And I worked with, they put me

IA:

Olive drab?

Bowles:

• IA:

Bowles:

Olive drab.
at once that accumulation would smoke and burn.

(laughter)

And ah, it would accumulate down there.

All

Oh my.

Well we'd just stumble out like this.

John D. Bowles
6-9-92
Page 6

IA:

IB:

IA:

Oh my goodness. Oh my gosh.

Hot feet.

It couldn't have been too comfortable to stand there and work in
front of that. What caused it to catch on

Bowles:

It is no wonder it didn't

IA:

IB:

Bowles:

Isn't that amazing.

It is amazing.

ah, so then they eliminated that phase of it. They changed ... they
eliminated that phase and they didn't have any use for me there
anymore, so I was trying to think after I talked wi th you, .....
where I went.
I can't, I can't
think what the department was.

I went to some other department.

IA:

Do you remember the name of the man who got you into the paint
department?

Bowles:

Pardon me?

IA:

Do you remember the name of the man who got you into the paint
department, who was your supervisor? No.
you made when you first started at Reo in 1942? You don't?

Do you remember how much

Bowles: No, I don't remember.

IB:

It probably wasn't very much.

Bowles: No.

IB:

IA:

Maybe 80 cents and hour maybe or

That's about the range, 65 to 80 that we've been getting.

•

•

Bowles: Yell,

always
majority of the other ones was only making about 30, 35. This, you
know, back in those days 50 cents an hour was good money.

in my lifetime from working, I have
I was making 50 cents an hour and the

IA:

Good money, sure.

Bowles:

So, I don't remember how much, how much they were paying me when I
hired in there. But I was trying to think I went someplace, some
other department and I worked there for a while and then I went into
the Navy division.

•

•

•

•

John D. Bowles
6-9-92
Page 7

IA:

Oh y~u were in the Navy Department". What did you do there?

Bowles: Well I went in on inspection. And after, I don't know, six months

something like thC1t,I went on supervision, but I was on supervision
the rest, all the rest of the war. And that's why I ah, was never

IA:

Oh, because you were doing this ... provision.

Bowles:

Essential

they said I was an essential.

IA:

IB:

IA:

I see.

Ah huh.

Part of the war effort.

Bowles: And every time I

or something, or they'd tell me

.

don't send in another one. I'll go and take my chances with the rest
of them.

IA:

IB:

Ah huh .

Oh, ah huh.

Bowles: He said that's alright. He said we are going to set them in. He
said if we can get a deferment for you, you'll stay here.

IA:

If we don't you are in the Army huh?

Bowles: He says if we can't, he said you can just take your rear end and go

to their Army.

(laughter)

Bowles:

But that's the way

.

IA:

When you were on inspection in the beginning there, what were you
inspecting the trucks as they came down the final line or

Bowles:

Bomb fuses.

IA:

IB:

Oh that's right, that's what they did in the Navy Department.

The bomb fuses, was that dangerous? Was it a dangerous Job?

Bowles: Well it was parts of the bomb fuse, it wasn't the complete bomb fuse .

IA:

Okay.

•

•

John D. Bowles
6-9-92
Page 8

Bowles: Ah, ... automatics and .... and this and that and everything was all

..... mention these things.

IA:

Each area would do something different on that fuse?

Bowles: Yes, yeah. And, of course, then I was on inspection see and we had

the ah, military ah, parts people. After we inspected the material,
after it came off of the machine floor, then it would go into the ah,
Army ordinance for their inspection.

IB:

We've heard some complaints about that from other people.

Bowles: And if they passed it, well and good.

If they didn't, you brought it

back and went allover

it again and found out

IB:

Dh what was wrong.

Bowles:

segregated the ah, the bad part from the good part.
good and some bad.

So, we had sometimes

Some of it was

IA:

Right, that's what we've heard from other people.

Bowles: And then again one of the of urn, ah, ... two just right, you know,

what I mean. Ah, you got to make them think they were a genius.

IA:

Dh, even though sometimes they didn't have as much training, right?

Bowles: That's right.

IA:

IB:

Yeah.

They didn't always know as much about those parts as you knew,
probably.

Bowles:

That's right. And something that we knew that was a little on the
shady side, we
and we put that stuff
(laughter) You know, you just use the stuff
and it went through.

IA:

Use your mind, huh?

Use your brain.

Bowles:

So ah, all in all, we've had a lot of

IA:

Were there very many women working in the Navy Department assembling
those bomb fuses?

Bowles: A lot of women.

IA:

Ah huh.
the shop in a man's place?

Did they have any difficulty that you recall being women in

I've been reading about their problems, •

• John D. Bowles

6-9-92
Page 9

trying to get equal pay and trying to get recognition and one thing
another.

Bowles: Oh that all started after the war.

IA:

Oh basically after the war.

Bowles: Yeah.

IB:

IA:

For the ones that wanted to stay. Yeah.

I see. Okay.

Bowles: And so I had a crew of women working for me on inspections and Navy

positions. And of course we was on the swing shift and ... 12 to 8.

IA:

IB:

IA:

Twelve to eight, nighttime.

So your shifts were in four week, four week intervals.

Were these women mostly young?

•

Bowles: Pardon me?

IA:

Were they young women or women .. young women

Bowles: Oh sure. Some of them anyhow. Middle age

Very, very

conscious, conscientious.

IA:

Ah huh.

Bowles: Ah' I'll say.this for women during the war, they were, they were good

workers.

They were

IA:

Did a good job and

Bowles: No just as good a job as

IA:

Absenteeism wasn't

Bowles: No.

IA:

a factor?

Bowles: No. No. Absenteeism wasn't ..... I guess from what I could hear
from other places, the absenteeism was quite, quite high .

IA:

Oh in other areas of the plant?

Bowles: Well other plants.

•

John D. Bowles
6-9-92
Page 10

IA:

Oh other plants.

Bowles: Other plants.

IA:

Ah huh. Okay. That is interesting. I remember seeing when I was a
child, there used to be the Reo would get the big E flag that would
be flying out there on the Baker Street side. Ah, what was that for
for doing meeting their production during the war or

Bowles: I don't remember.

IA:

Maybe having a big, a good record of turning out good parts maybe.

Bowles:

..................................... I don't remember ~

IA:

It seemed to be something they were quite proud of, my mother came
home and was quite excited about having that flag up there.

Bowles: But then after the Navy division and after the war, why they kept all
ah, cleaning up all their odds and

those supervisors on for
ends and ..... we got done we were automatically done.

IA:

With the war work. Yeah.

Bowles: So I just took about oh let's see, September, I took from the first

of the year off.

IA:

Did you go back to Indiana again?

Bowles: No.

IA:

No. This time you were in Lansing? Stayed in Lansing?

Bowles:

IA:

IB:

stayed there and of course, I was married by

then.

Oh I see.

I was just going to ask, you know, had your family maybe started.

Bowles: So,

IA:

You didn't meet your wife was one of those war workers, huh?
didn't meet her on the shop floor?

You

Bowles: No, she worked at, she worked at Fisher Body.

IA:

IB:

Oh okay.

Oh she ~id.

Oh.

So you married a Michigan girl.

•

•

•

•

•

•

John D. Bowles
6-9-92
Page 11

Bowles: Ah huh.

So, took the rest of the year off, September to the first.of

January came back to what I was

.

IA:

Nothing?

Bowles:

work. My wife.

IA:

IB:

Oh at Reo?

So you hired right back in again.

Bowles: To maintain my seniority and everything, you know.

IA:

Oh you could keep your seniority even though you had taken off that
few months. Oh that's interesting.

Bowles: And ah ,

IB:

So you started back in '461

Bowles: Pardon me?

IB:

You started back in '46 then, right at the first of the year, '46?

Bowles: Yeah, I guess it was about '46.

IA:

Because the war was over in August of '45, so that would be about
right.

Bowles: So,

IA:

Wasn't that about the time when some of the strikes started
occurring, the steel strikes and the or was that a little later, I
remember being steel strikes and coal strikes and railroad strikes

Bowles:

in the '30's,
strike they had at Reo was in the '30's because they had that while I
was working at Louce Manufacturing Company.

with ah strike started in ah, in well let's see
striking in the '30's. And I think the sitdown

IA:

Do you remember it?

Bowles: So,

IA:

Do you remember that because it was a big event in Lansing, big
strike at Reo?

Bowles:

IA:

Yeah.

•

•

John D. Bowles
6-9-92
Page 12

Bowles:

I don't remember how many of them was involved in the sitting

down part of it, and ah,

IA:

It went on for a whole month too, it was a long time ...

Bowles: Well as I say, I don't ... I wasn't involved in it so

IB:

Right.

Bowles:

I really wasn't paying too much attention, you know.

IA:

IB:

IA:

I wondered about the Lansing,the labor day.

Oh the labor day.

Did Louce, where you worked at Louce when they had that labor holiday
day, did your people go out that day or

Bowles: Well you might well believe they went out.

(laughter)

IA:

Oh everybody went out. What did you do, or did you

Bowles: We were, we were on the final checkout of commercial bodies and we

were over in the north end, that old autobody, .... where the
autobody was,

IA:

No, I'm interested in knowing though.

Bowles: Well, you go out Grand River where the ah, where Turner and

Grand River,

IA:

Yes.

Bowles: well, that used to be one building, ..... Turner Street.

IA:·

Okay.

Bowles: And that used to be the old Autobody.

IA:

It was called the Autobody.

Bowles: And ah, Louce Manufacturing Company rented space there for ah, final

checkout and stuff.

IA:

Okay.

Bowles: And ah, of course, I was off superv1s10n and well, .... they called

that strike and the telephone ring in the morning and the general
manager says get them people out of there and get them out of there
right now and keep them out.

•

John D. Bowles
6-9-92
Page 13

IA:

IB:

IA:

Oh.

My.

They were locking them out.

Did you have any idea of why or he said it until you did it?

Bowles: Yeah.

So they got out. Well

we went across the

street and drank beer and ate sardines, I guess.

IA:

IB:

IA :

IB:

IA:

Sardine sandwiches (laughter) That's cute. We've talked to different
people that remember that day and some of them have said that they
hung around for a while and that some of them went home and some of
them ah,

Most of them went home.

yeah, or went here or there and they said they remembered seeing all,
the traffic came to a standstill downtown and there was that group
that marched out to the college and then got thrown in the river and

By the students .

Yeah.

Bowles: Well the crew I had over there, they wouldn't get involved in no way.
They didn't go downtown or anything else they just went until

IA:

Until it blew over basically.

Bowles: Until they had enough beer and then they went home.

(laughter)

IA:

When you went back in January then, urn,was that when the model
changeover started from war production, from Army trucks to civilian
trucks?

Bowles: Yeah they were changed over.

IA:

Did that take awhile to affect that changeover?

Bowles: Yeah.

Of course, when I mean I was building trucks ah, at Reo and it

didn't take them too long to changeover.

IA:

Would it have been basically almost the same kind of truck, same body
style and whatnot?

IB:

Maybe a few more colors than olive drab, right?

Bowles: Yeah. Yeah.

•

•

•

John D. Bowles
6-9-92
Page 14

IA:

I don't even know what color Reo trucks were.
colors, I suppose?

Did they various

Bowles: Various colors, red, white, green, blue,

IA:

Whatever anybody ordered or

Bowles: Whatever they wanted.

IA:

Is that where you went back to the spray, to the painting department?

Bowles: Un huh.

I after I got out of that spray painting, I stayed out.

IA:

So you went back on superv1s10n again. Were you basically in the
same, what happened to the Navy Department, did it Just completely
empty that part of the building out and put something else in there
or what did they do with it?

Bowles:

They ceased all operations there and they put ah, machinery in there
and put some of the lawn mower in there.

IA:

Oh yeah.

Okay.

Bowles: And urn,no, they utilized the floor space.

IA:

That part of the building was that, would that have been the south
end, maybe toward the Washington, Baker corner?

Bowles:

It would have been to the west end of the building.
Avenue from north and south.

Washington

IB:

Right.

Bowles: The building that faced Washington Avenue which would be the west end

of the building.

IA:

I see.

Bowles:

That's where the Navy division was in there.
Street.

Oh,

It run back down Baker

IA:

Down toward first-aid or something?

Bowles: Ah huh.

IA:

Okay, about half way down.

Bowles: Yeah.

IA:

So then that became the lawn mower division that space afterwards?

•

•

•

•

•

•

John D. Bowles
6-9-92
Page 15

Bowles: Well no, ah , not the whole,'now I'm

ah, the lawn

mower division was in what they called, 700 Building and 600
Building. And then the steel the pressroom, was ah, back end of the
lawn mower.

IA:

Okay.

Bowles:

Or even the back end of the Navy division.

IA:

Oh I see.

Bowles:

From the pressroom, that's where they formed ..... ah, what have you,
heavy presses, so

IA:

IB:

Being on supe rva.si.on then I was thinking about the, the unions and
that and how that was all working but, of course, being on
supervision you wouldn't have been part of the union would you?

And what was the department that you were supervisor and when you
went back in '46?

Bowles: Ah, oh you know, I think

IB:

Are we confusing you?

Bowles:

I didn't go on supervision until I went back.

IB:

IA:

Okay.

Oh.

Bowles:

I went back in inspection

IB:

IA:

IB:

Inspection.

Oh inspection. Oh okay, okay.

... still on inspection.

Bowles:

I misunderstood you.

IB:

Okay, so you were still on inspection like you were during the war.

Bowles: Yeah.

IB:

Okay. And what was it, what were you inspecting this time?

Bowles: Ah, oh, I went down to the motor plant, they send me down to the

motor plant on inspection. I was inspecting fly wheels and.cam
shafts.

John D. Bowles
6-9-92
Page 16

IB:

Okay.

Bowles: And I didn't like that .... no way.

IA:

Oh why was that?

Bowles:

It was low ceiling and no ventilation and all that smoke from the
machines.

IA:

Hard to breath.

Bowles: It was hard to breath and ..... If I'd of had to stayed there, ah, I

would have quit. I wouldn't stay there.

IA:

It wouldn't have been healthy.

Bowles: Yeah.

IA:

I see.

Bowles:

IA:

IB:

So I got to shopping around and they needed,they was just starting
the lawn mower division at that time. And one of the fellows told me
they needed a paint sprayer in the lawn mower.
got the job.

Okay,

.

Oh you've had experience.

How long did you stay there doing that?

Bowles: Until they went out of business.

IA:

Oh until '76?

Bowles: No

IA:

Or '75 or

Bowles: When they sell that to ..... 1955 sometime

IB:

IA:

IB:

Oh the lawn mower division.

Oh so they quit making the lawn mowers then.

Oh I see.

Bowles: They sold it to a .... firm.

IA:

Oh.

So the Reo lawn mowers weren't made after '55.

Bowles: Not Reo.

•

•

•

•

•

•

John D. Bowles
6-9-92
Page 17

IA:

Ah huh
or leave the ~hop then in '55? No.

itself. What did you do then after the oh, did you quit

Bowles:

................................. I went back to ah, I got back. .. I
go up in export.
for a year, I guess. And then they shut that down and then I went in
to central stores.

I think I went up in export.

I was up in export

IA:

What did you do in central stores? What was that?

Bowles: Tool issue. Tool issue.

IA:

Oh like tool crib sort of, oh okay.

Bowles: And ah, from

I go (can't hear, loud hum)

I

went back to material control, I went into material control.

IA:

And what was that like? What did they do in that department?

Bowles: Well 1:hatwas like stock, material control. Ah, you might be out on

the floor and moving stock and be in the stockroom and

IA:

Oh okay.

Bowles:

so on and so forth.

IB:Making

sure that everybody had what they needed.

Bowles: Yeah.

And ah, then what I'd do.

(laughter) Ah, then
I wen1: into the service parts . And I worked in the service parts ah.,
for q\litesome time and now I went into military service parts,
expediter.

I don't know.

IA:

Ah huh.
the late '50's.

And this is always in the 1960's.

... the 1960's or still

Bowles:

the last ten years I was there ... service parts

expediter.

IA:

Okay.

Bowles:

I retired in '71, so

'61, '62, something like that.

IA:

Okay.

Bowles: Bef'o re I ah, the time I got upstairs in the office and so on and so

forth and

IA:

And so that's for this last job you were up in an office.

John D. Bowles
6-9-92
Page 18

Bowles:

Yeah.

IB:

What was military

expediting?

Bowles:

Well, military expediting was they sold military parts to the federal
government
And then when take a bid
on so many, oh so many cam shafts, say 500 cam shafts, and other
people were bidding at the same time.

for all trucks that they built.

IA:

There were other companies?

Bowles:

Other companies.
Well then they would send it to a packaging
military specifications
know

And ah, the lowest bidder then got the contract.
firm to be packaged to

rustproofing

and this and I don't

IA:

Oh I wondered what you meant.

So much in that military packaging, so much

Bowles:
. . . . . . . . .. . .. . . . . . . . ... . . . . . . . . . . . .

.

Bowles:

And ah, then ah, then we dealt with all the Army bases, practically
all the Army bases in the United States.
but always parts
military warehouse

One ..... (can't hear) ...
the government bid them, they was going to a

and then they would be distributed

from there.

IA:

Oh okay.

Bowles:

But, if some military installation had to have free cam shafts

See.
right away, well then they would call us.

IA:

I see.

Bowles:

IA:

We'd check and we had them in stock, okay.
them, they'd place an order and we'd ship them.

We'd get them out, ship

So it is for very special quick needs
military ...
were and what the military would need specifically.

So you had to know a lot about cars and what the parts

.

Bowles:

Yeah, it was, it was fun.

IB:

It was kind of interesting, was it?

Bowles:

Pardon me?

IB:

Was it kind of interesting?

Or urn,

Bowles:

Oh sure.

•

•

•

• John D. Bowles

6-9-92
Page 19

IA:

... different probably.

Bowles: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I had all the .. parts..... cabs ,fenders J hoods

IA:

Whatever they needed.

Bowles: The whole ball of works.

....... from wheels and ..... all·parts to

the truck and ah, it was suppose to be .... military ah, symbols.

IA:

Oh.

So you had all that that you had to know.

Bowles: Yeah, we had

.

IA:

Did they change their symbols very often?

Bowles: No.

IA:

No.

I just got to wondering if you'd learn one whole set then

Bowles:

• IA:

Bowles: No.

I could see a new general coming in and saying out with the old, in
with the new.

I mean you know.

IA:

I was surprised to learn that Reo trucks are still being built out in
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

Bowles: That's right.

IA:

The R~~oGiant.

Bowles: Yeah, but ah, a fellow bought, I don't know, two or three patents.

IA:

And h~~only makes one or two models.

Bowles: Two or three models.

IA:

Yeah.

Bowles: That's all he makes.

See every time they come out with a new one,

they got to test them.

IA:

Oh.

Bowles: And then when they went bankrupt and sold ..... well, all the new

•

print and everything goes with that patent.

IA:

Okay.

John D. Bowles
6-9-92
Page 20

Bowles:

So when the man bought the patent

.

IA:

Kind of all right to producing that.

Bowles:

do is sell machinery and

.

IA:

Ah huh. Were you there at the Reo, when did you retire?

Bowles:

I retired in '71.

IA:

Oh you were there before, I mean you left before the bad stuff.

Bowles: Oh ... my years.

IA:

Did you kind of know that that was going to be happening?

Bowles:

It didn't look good to me for one thing.

IA:

It didn't look.

Bowles: No.

No, it didn't urn,the way things looked ah, didn't look good.

But that wasn't the real reason why I retired.

IA:

Ah huh.

Bowles:

I was 62 years old at the time and I had 28 and 1/2 years service and
I figured that was enough.

IA:

That's a long time, isn't it?

Bowles: Yeah.

So I just

IA:

So when you retired, you got your pension.

Bowles:

IA:

That the folks didn't get in '76 when it went bankrupt.

Bowles:

They all got a pension alright, but they all got hurt

very bad in there in their pension.

IA:

Yeah.

Bowles:

Especially the ones that went out 30 and out.

IA:

Oh yeah.

Bowles:

I know some of those
.... got through, I don't think they were drawing $100, $75.

$600, $700, $800 a month pension and

•

•

•

• John D. Bowles

6-9-92
Page 21

IA:

Boy that's
to rhat; point where you could retire

rough.

Especially when you've worked all your

life

to get

and have money to live

on.

Bowles:

I'm out $7.

IA:

Oh~

Bowles: And I didn't make no issue out of

it.

IA:

IB:

No.

Ah, $7.

Bowles: Yeah, $7

IA:

No, no,
your

\17ife have?

isn't

going to make me or break me.

I wouldn't

say so. Did you, how many children

did you and

Bowles:

Two.

IA:

Two. Boys?

•

Bowles: One gl.rland

one boy.

IA:

Oh one of each kind.
work or worked for

the

Ah, so neither

one of

them went on into factory

Bowles: No my son he worked over at Fisher Body like

I got him a
at Reo and he worked about a month and he got a job over at

this. Well

there

for about a month, and he said

job there
Fisher Body and he worked over
this

adrr' t; for me.

IA:

Factory work wasn't

for him.

Bowles: No, he jumps around,

...

at Michigan State,

come

home one night he said I joined

around and enrolling
the Marines.

IA:

IB:

IA:

Oh.

Oh , oh dear.

You must have been a little

surprised.

You had no idea.

Oh golly.

Bowles:

So he done

(can't

hear)

we didn't

have

IA:

He had a good experience .

• Bowles: Yeah. He ah, was selected

Oh.

IA:

for officer

candidate

school

John D. Bowles
6-9-92
Page 22

Bowles:

IA:

Hum.

Bowles:

.. ah, Marine training out there ah, oh, he went through the

He was selected for office candidate
enlist another year and so on and so forth.
military
ranks and he got ah, they sent him down to Pensacola,
they sent him to Memphis, Tennessee
South Carolina
Morraine Training

School for officer candidate school.

for education

Florida and
and they sent him to Columbia,
He went down to ah,

school but no he wouldn't ....

He just finished his

ah, to

IA:

In South Carolina?

Bowles:

No, Virginia.

IA:

Oh in Virginia.

Okay.

Quantico, maybe.

Bowles:

Quantico,
honors.

that's

IA:

Oh.

yeah, Quantico.

Graduated

down there high

Bowles:

And he went to Lansing Community
College a little bit
there a little bit to the college, to Michigan State.
four, six, eight years
right on through and he
falling by the wayside.
And we went down to Quantico
graduation,

it was quite an affair.

and he went out
He was going

college
for his

IA:

Yeah.

Bowles:

We tried to talk him into

But he ended up a captain so.
just, last year
compulsory,
about the Marine Corp and there was two of his buddies.
the air wing of the Marine Corp.
sent to Vietnam and they were both killed over there .....
them shot down.

so I don't know, when he was overseas he got ... bitter
He was in

And two of his buddies ah, they

(can't hear) was overseas,

that was

both of

he

IA:

Oh my.

Bowles:

He got awful bitter ....

Of course, they were in Europe though and he .... send those two boys
over to Vietnam.
(can't hear) and everything
anybody else what he actually had done.
a navigator
mapping and stuff
boy.

....
you know, ah, he would never tell us or

or a pilot and ah, I think he was topography

and ah,
he is a good

Ab, he was not classified

he wouldn't

listen

So,

as

IA:

Does he live here in Lansing?

•

•

•

• John D. Bowles

6-9-92
Page 23

Bowles:

No he lives in California.

IA:

Oh so you get out to see him sometimes.

Bowles:

Every two or three years.

IA:

Urn,

Bowles:

He has three boys.

Three children.

IA:

Oh.

Bowles:

His wlfe and our daughter-in-law and three grandsons will be here ah,
about the 25th of this month.

IA:

Oh you are looking forward to that then?

Bowles: Yeah, for a few days. We go out there occasionally and .... now arid

we fly.

IA:

• IB:

Well it is a little less wearing, isn't it .

That ts a long way.

Bowles: About four days difference.

IA:

Oh sure. Yeah.
Lansirlg? In the beginning did you buy one when you first got your
job in Reo or did you save up for awhile?

Did you buy, did you buy your own hous'ehere in

Bowles:

.. Reo and

IA:

A lot of people we've talked to that worked at Reo bought or rented
houses and lived fairly close to work, so a lot of them walked back
and forth to work.

Bowles:

No, ... close to

IA:

Do you think Reo was a good employer?
fairly and got a good wage there?

You thought you were treated

Bowles:

I did.

I did.
I know a lot of fellows didn't, so but I always been
a person that you have a right to your opinion, I have a right to my
opinion, you have a right to express your opinion, I have a right to
express my opinion.

IA:

And that was the philosophy of the company too wasn't it? The
company had that kind of philosophy too with its

•

John D. Bowles
6-9-92
Page 24

Bowles:

always, I've always said I have a right,

whether I'm right or wrong or ever right to express my opinion.

IA:

And then they can do whatever they want with it.

Bowles: They can take it and say

.

IA:

That pretty much sounds like the American way of thinking.
I think we all kind of feel that way.

I think,

Bowles:

It is

really uphold,

.

IA:

IB:

IA:

Reo had a lot of different kind of programs for the people who worked
there.

That's right.

They had a clubhouse and movies and things, did you and your family
take advantage of those?

Bowles:

Sure the old Reo clubhouse we used to go over there and the movies
too. When I worked at Louce Manufacturing Company

IB:

IA:

Do you still go?

Oh you could go when you worked there?

Bowles:

Sure.

IA:

Did you have to show any identification, just

Bowles: No.

IA:

You weren't one of those people we heard about that sneaked in, were
you?
children, they used to sneak in

We were interviewing somebody and they said when they were

Bowles: Well let's put it this way, I got in.

IA:

Got in. They had urn,company picnics and things too, didn't they?

Bowles: Yeah.

IA:

Did you go to those, you and your wife and your children?

Bowles: No.

No.

Ah, I wasn't, I wasn't married yet at that time.

IA:

Oh.

Bowles:

I was still young and foolish.

•

•

•

•

•

John D. Bowles
6-9-92
Page 25

IA:

IB:

Oh okay ,

So you socialized.

Bowles:

Yes.

IA:

Did ah, did you take any kind of training courses or did Reo give you
any kf.nd of opportunities to have training courses for your job or
when chey moved you from job to job, someone would just say this is
how y()U do it and

Bowles:

They showed you how to do it and

IA:

You'd learn on the job.

Bowles:

'

hire new help, I'd show them how I done it.

I'm
going to show you how I done it, or how I do it. And if you say that
you can do it any differently, and do it as good, and maybe faster,
then go ahead and do it. Just because I do it this way doesn't say
you have to do it this way.
................ question in your mind about anything I know, don't
go ahead and assume

That's what, what I always call ..... and

IA:

And ruin a part or something.

Bowles:

make sure.

IA:

Yeah.

Bowles:

IA:

Bowles:

From 'iI1hatyou've seen, did your own experiences, did the supervisors
and the men that worked under them, the foremen and the men that
worked under them have good interactions with each other?
all communicate well and cooperate and everything?
you aaw , you know, you can't speak for the whole plant obviously.

Just from what

Did they

Well, no one
Ah,
anything about it and

.

truck plant and assembly and stuff like that.

you weren't around it all the time and didn't now

IA:

I'm r'emember Lng a name from well for whom my mother worked there, but
also from some of the people we've interviewed, Clare Loudenslager.
Did you know Mr. Loudenslager?

Bowles:

• IA:

Very 1well.

Ah, I'm trying to remember what.
man to work for, but he had his, his ways of doing things.

I remember ... that he was a good

John D. Bowles
6-9-92
Page 26

Bowles: That's right.

IA:

I'd forgotten, what was his, was he a, I've forgotten his position,
what it was.

Bowles: Plant manager.

IA:

IB:

Bowles:

Plant manager. That's right.

And Shirley, I wanted to remember that.

and he was drafted and he come back ah, after he

was discharged from the Army and
they put him on supervision and the first thing you knew he was ...
and mixing .....

But anyhow he kept

IA:

Kind of went right up the line, huh.

Bowles: Yeah.

IA:

Was he a good man to work for do you think?

Bowles: Yes, I ah , I think he was. He was like everybody else, he wasah, he.

tried to be human about everything, you know. And ah, of course, a
lot of them ..... but ah, was human nature.

IA:

Oh sure.

Bowles: You know.

IA:

Not everybody is going to agree. Ah, a lot of the fellows that when
you mentioned him going in to the service which made me think about a
lot of the fellows that left the Reo to go in the service did they
all have their jobs when they came back. A lot of them came back
after the war. And then the women left to make room for, some of the
women left to make room for the men. Do you recall any problems
about the women having to give up their jobs?

Bowles:

I didn't have any problem with it.

IA:

I was just curious about that.

Bowles: Yeah.

IB:

The ones that you had contact with.

Bowles: Yeah.

IA:

Okay, you were at Reo for 28 years you said.

•

•

• John D. Bowles

6-9-92
Page 27

Bowles: Ah huh, 28 1/2 years.

IA:

Were 1:here a lot of changes in the shop,
shop in those years
e f'f Lc Lerrt; and things

about you automating it

that?

like

the way work was done in the

and making it more

Bowles: Like everybody

else,

ah,

(can't

hear)

You know, so oh they'd have to.

IA:

It df.dn t t; always make the workers'

job better

though.

Bowles :

Soraewhat; ,

IA:

Some of

it did and some of

it didn't.

Yeah.

Bowles: No Lt; was a very unfortunate

thing that Reo went bankrupt.

Ah, I've

always said that

they wouldn't put up a job .....

operation

Bowles:

IA:

•• IA:

Oh you think so.

what happens is

Yeah" we've gotten a lot of different
pe r son was when it happened you know.

stories

depending on where the

IB:

I think the majority

seem to feel

that

it

could have been avoided

Bowles:

It could have been.

IA:

Yeah •. we've talked with a few people that

Bowles: We, 111hatI mean we all know ah ,

the upper echelon

....

(loud hum) We

all know
ope r'at.Lon
paper.

IA:

Ah huh.

seems to me that
sold this Reo to this Cappaert

And it

they sold this White Merck
for $16 1/2 million,

all on

Bowles: But at: the same time
can tell me,
$1.75.

they got

IA:

IB:

Yeah.

Ah.huh, ah huh.

to sell me something that

I haven't

found anybody yet

that
is worth $500 for

Bowles:

• IA:

I havent;

found that person yet .

But

t:hat's what happened.

John D. Bowles
6-9-92
Page 28

Bowles: And that's why I said, when Diamond Reo was

corporation

.

IA:

IB:

I've heard that those were good trucks.

Bowles: A few years later ... White ... operation .... to themselves.

IA:

Yeah.

Bowles: Went bankrupt.
long time ago.

And then .... they would be .... out of existence a
But ... truck come along bailed them out.

IB:

IA:

IB:

What truck.

Val

v o.

Oh Valvo.
before.

Like Vulvo only Va, okay. I hadn't heard of that one

Bowles: That's my opinion.

IB:

IA:

Sure.

That's what we are here to listen to. Were there also changes in the
shop, in the 28 years of the kind of people that worked there, beside
the women being in there, were there

Bowles: Well some of the women stayed.

IA:

Right. Well that's what I'm saying, the women came in and they
stayed after that. Were there other changes that took place and
kinds of people that worked in the shops? Starting in the '50's and
'60's?

Bowles: No. Not to much.

IA:

Okay.

Bowles: Some, but not too much.

IA:

Okay, mostly people from Lansing and the area around Lansing.

Bowles: Yeah, yeah.

IA:

Okay.

Bowles: You know,

and stuff like this. For the

•

•

•

•

•

John D. Bowles
6-9-92
Page 29

IA:

But "the employees, most of the local until
buyoucs and everything,
yeah. And people,
everyone always said, people with families.

they started
family people like

getting

old

Bowles: Yeah,

that
peopLe talk their
everything
and ..•.....

and

is one thing about Reo
dad worked there

and the sons worked there

ah,

I've heard
and

But ah,

it wasn't

a sweatshop like Fisher Body

IA:

IB:

Yeah.

I suppose because it was a little
peopLe .

smaller you'd get

to know more

Bowles: Oh sure.

IA:

But Lt; seemed like more relatives

hired in

Bowles: Well ,~hen I came in in my time here,

I when I was on the .~. patrol,

I Lmagd.ne I knew just
on

about everybody that worked in the Reo.

I was

IA:

So you went allover.

Bowles: And I was allover.

IA:

Yeah.

Bowles: And um , so some of the fellows want

and "there would be some
take one look at
sir or something else.

them and I would know whether

to be there,
I'd

and ah,

I'd go up to them
in the morning I' d
to say good morning

IA:

You coul.d sense how things were going to be.

Bowles: So you know,

I see people today I knew

but

I haven't

em and. everything,
once and a while I went to ....
seen ehem in 15 years.
xea l Lae I should know em, but
I'll
well you don't know who I am do you and I say hell no.

:stand there looking at

I couldn't

And ah ,

you their

tell

say something to me and I haven't
look at em and I can .....
...

them and looking around and finally

seen them for maybe 10 years.

(laughter)

names see.

say

I can

Every

I gues s I I d like
to go back for
mentioned changes over 28 years.
see d~anges in the safety
startled out, were things not maybe as safe or as clean for
or

a minute and talk.
I'm wondering safetywise
the worker on the Job? Whenyou

Lisa

just

for

did you

the worker

IA:

•

John D. Bowles
6-9-92
Page 30

Bowles:

Well
burning down there.

You know what I mean.

like I say, ah, spraying that paint, I had stuff

IA:

Yeah.

Bowles:

but

IA:

Tha t amaz ing .

Bowles:

then that was eliminated,

Ah, that
to eliminate that.
safety factors.
group of people that was on medical ah, leave or anything like that,
there was no question about that, but it
but got hurt
wasn't a whole bushel basket of em.

I don't think that ah, the Reo had too big of a a

It went rather fast

they knew they had

You know.

but they were

IA:

So the machines weren't as unsafe maybe as

Bowles:

IA:

No, some of them yes, some of them should probably should have been
junked out
so
piece there all the time, you know.

but nevertheless
rest of the company

they was still operating.

trying to get the last

Ah,

Keep the expenditures
heard too that the building itself in some places wasn't too safe,
the floors maybe quite old.

down maybe for buying new machinery.

I've

Bowles:

Yeah

yeah.

Yeah

old buildings

.

Side 2

IA:

And of course people were in positions that could help you, but you
feel you did that in your 28 years that you worked your way through,
given the opportunity
different places.

You can't do that a lot of

to do that.

--?Bowles: That's right.

IA:

Yeah.

Bowles:

You can do it, but it is pretty hard to .....

IA:

Yeah.

Bowles:

Ah so,

IA:

That makes a big difference in the attitudes that you have to the
company

(loud hum)

•

•

•

• John D. Bowles

6-9-92
Page 31

Bowles: Oh I
them
for
...
you,

young people working for

them and

see one of
not

t:he best and you know, if you can talk to them a little
bit
get; us back on square again and ah , and some of 'them listen
hear)

some of

(can't

them

.

and
to

IA:

The ()ld-timerscan

like

that when you started?

Bowles: No I knew all

about

(laughter)

IB:

IA:

So rhey knew they couldn't

fool yeah, huh.

to one gentleman who started when he was a young kid right
grade or 9th grade and he said the old guys that worked

We talked
()f8th
out
che re were, wouldn't
maybe afraid
and he said I had to learn everything myself.

their

for

show him how to do anything.

They kind of were
own jobs, here comes this young ki.d you know,

IB:

The hard way.

IA:

• IB:

Bowles:

Yeah..

Nobody would show him how to do anything.

Some ()f those old-timers was that way.

IB:

Kind ()f natural

I can see why they'd feel

threatened.

Bowles: Yeah..

I knew a fellow that worked in export and it got down to where
to

and .. exports

shipping,

exporting
. .. Turkey. And this

one fellow ..

it down. He says I don't

care.

He

in my notebook and he said when I leave,

he

they ~ias going to quit packing,
Turkey and foreign
that
,I s all
said I got all
said it

leaving with me.

countries.

them shut

right,

stuff

this

let

is

IB:

Oh rio ..

Bowles:

(loud hum) .....

That was a very, very poor attitude

for

Because..

. . . . . . . . . . . ..

they paid him to get

that

So.... " ..
anybody to have.
knowLedge .

IB:

Right:"

Bowles: He

"

write

it down in his book.

IB:

Right:"

•

Bowles: Why should he feel

that way. But

IB:

It

is very selfish'.

John D. Bowles
6-9-92
Page 32

Bowles:

I never went for that stuff
before, ah, any time I was breaking a new person in
.
quicker,

like I said
better,

IB:

You gave him the basics and

Bowles: That's right. And you know, or both of you should know there is no

two people that does the same thing alike. Maybe I shouldn't say
there is no, but I probably should say there is very few people.

IB:

Well because we are all individuals and we all have our own way of
whatever experience we bring to that.

Bowles: Right.

IB:

Um, obviously not when you were working in the office, but before
then, were you you weren't a member of the union or anything?
were a member of the union.

Oh you

Bowles:

IB:

You went up to
have any strikes during the '50's or anything like that.

yeah. Um, and it was pretty quiet they didn't

.

Bowles: No.

IB:

Okay, so there wasn't real much, I mean, bes ides paying your dues and
maybe going to a meeting or something, there wasn't much going on

Bowles: No.

I belong to the union for a few years .... the only thing that I

ever accomplished by belonging to the union was ah, I made all the
insurance companies

.

IB:

IA:

Because of all the funds that they had that you paid in to.

Oh.

Bowles:

$10,000 insurance policy

so

the day I retired, that

$10,000 insurance policy went down to $750.

IA:

Oh really. Oh. Hum.

Bowles:

I ... my head off about it. Well if you want to keep it up, you can
keep it up.

IA:

But you have to keep paying it in.

Bowles:

I'd have to pay the premium myself.
a $10,000 policy, I'd have to take money
I got in order to pay the cottin pickin insurance.

Well here I am 62 years old and

from the pension

•

•

•

John D. Bowles
6-9-92
Page 33

IA:

My g()sh, $10,000 to $750.

Bowles: Yeah'.

IA:

IB:

It

just

staggers my mind. Oh, dear.

is just

I thluk there
I was mentioning before
also had sports
team .and things

things
like

that.

a couple of more things

that

about

the clubhouse and the activities,

like

teams,

the Reo team with the baseball

I have. Urn, when
they

Bowles: Oh yeah ,

IB:

Did you do any of those things or did you watch them.

Bowles: No.

IB:

You didn't

participate

in that.

And so that

0

0

•••••••••

0 some did.

Bowles: Oh t.hey had bowling teams and

IB:

Bowling right

.

Bowles:

softbctllteams

and urn, all

this

and that.

IB:

Right:" but you dLdn/t; participate

too much.

Bowles: No.

IB:

Was It mostly for
gUYSl'

Bowles: Yeah.

the younger guys, was it mostly for

the younger

and the young ones and

ah, play softball

and baseball

and golf

IB:

You \l1E~retoo busy doing other

things.

Bowles:

I was too busy doing other

things.

IB:

IA:

Right.

And t:hen later
wife cont Lnue to work at Fisher Body after
she scop working there.

on you had a family to go home to so,

urn, did your

you were married or did

Bowles:

She cont.Lnued working

IA:

She di.d?

•

•

•

•

•

John D. Bowles
6-9-92
Page 34

Bowles:

Oh, let's see about
six months I guess it was, something like that and she went back to
work.

first child why she

IA:

At Fisher? I thought she didn't come to Reo.

Bowles:

IA:

She had seniority right. And she stayed there?

Bowles: She stayed there until ah, I think '66.

IA:

IB:

IA:

Oh my.

Oh she worked there a long time.

She worked there a long time.

Bowles: Twenty some years.

IA:

She just left a few years before you left.

Bowles: Yeah, so well she took sick leave for a I think it was '66 and she

officially retired in '67. And the

sick leave for a year.

IA:

Oh I see.

Bowles: My wife was

IA:

Oh. Brought on by her job do you think? Did she have to do
something very physical.

Bowles: No, I don't know, her knees, she has had both knees replaced.

IA:

Oh my.

Bowles: And ah , not

.

IA:

Just takes over.

Bowles: That's right. If you ask me how she is, I says well, as long as I

leave her alone she'd be alright, you know. But we get along pretty
good.

IA:

What did she do at Fisher Body? What did she work out there? Did
she have a lot of different jobs or

Bowles: Well she worked in the cushing room.

•

IA:

Cushion room.

•

John D. Bowles
6-9-92
Page 35

IB:

Oh st:itching

the cushions or stuffing

them or something?

Bowles:

I don't know.

IA:

" ". . ..

....
kids and everything

and did that

job too.

talk about. Does she,

she took care of the house and the

Bowles: Well we had

.

IA:

IB:

IA:

Ohyou had somebody help you at home. Anything else, Shirley?

No, I can't

think of anything else.

See you didn't
whilE!.. Thank you very much for

forget

anything to say, but we managed to talk for a

IB:

Yeah..

Bowles:

•

. . . . ..... . . . . . . . . . and.. washing bodies
working about an hour and 1
the cop of my head to the bottom of my feet.
. . ..
cence r of that
pencil
the o cher side and he didn't wash that

it
and draw a center

chat; had been on that

thing,

job for quite a while. And right

down the

looked like

just
line down. He worked one side and I was on

somebody took a pen ora

far over

that

and I guess I'm

soaking wet from
And they had a big old

IA:

Oh is that

right over the where your line

started.

Bowles: He w()uldn't no way.

IA:

So you weren't working together.

Bowles: That ,I s right.

IA:

He was just

doing his job and that was all.

Bowles:

I was working my fanny off and as I said,
ah , got; rid of him just before
been chasing them
to ge t; back down the line.
a couple.
get
well., .'. . . . . . . . . . . . .• .. He says
on s()mething else.

t:hem cleaner he said you didn't

And, of course,

I would like

and
any more and I'd have
Myboss come out and said well, you got
He says skip a couple. He said I'll

to .....

skip
to

Pretty soon he come back up again and he said you got
get

them clean enough.

I said

So,

the next day they put me

.

IA:

Yeah..

Bowles:

'.'

.....
days" something like

So

that.

and I think I worked 85

•

•

John D. Bowles
6-9-92
Page 36

IA:

Oh they laid you off.

Bowles:

Sure ...

IB:

So you couldn't accumulate and then if you hired back, you started
again, you'd have to start from the bottom and work back up to 90
days again.

IA:

Oh my.

This was at the Fisher Body.

Bowles: Yeah.

IA:

But you said you thought that Reo was a better place to work?
you, you weren't treated in that same way at Reo?

Were

Bowles: Well yes.

No, you weren't ah, weren't treated the way I was treated
Somebody seen that you were trying and you were behind,

there
you were having problems, they'd send ... to help you.

IA:

Oh.

Bowles:

see, and I presume that Fisher Body there was a lot of people doing
the same thing.

•

IA:

Only you didn't.

Bowles:

Only I just didn't get one that did.

IA:

IB:

IA:

I don't know, we've heard that same thing from a lot of other men
that worked there that there was some cooperation and

At the Reo.

yes, at the Reo.

Bowles: Yeah.

IA:

And the feel like you said before, it is a family, you know, and we
are in this thing together.

Bowles: Yeah, it was if I had to make a choice, I would have taken Reo before

I would have Fisher Body.

IB:

Some of the people also felt proud about the product too. They
thought the Reo stuff, the stuff coming out of Reo was better and
much more attention was paid to it.

Bowles: Well you know, the truck drivers in the country would tell you that

•

the Reo truck was the king of the road.

• John D. Bo't4rles

6-9-92
Page

37

IB:

Hum.

Bowles:

In other

words, it was the best truck along the road.

IB:

So you felt like you were contributing to something worthwhile.

Bowles:

I think the majority of the people ah, made it that

way, ah, was proud of it that they, you know, that they had a part of
it,

IB:

Right.

Bowles:

of something like that see. So,

IA:

IB:

It is going to reflect in your job too if you are feeling good a.bout
what you are helping to produce. You are going to maybe do a good
job.

Somebody told us that work in the office that when Reo went down, Reo
went bankrupt that there was still a lot of standing orders for those
trucks.
what you are saying .

That people still wanted those trucks.

So that bares out

Bowles:

I guess there was, ah, so

IB:

And there were a few trucks left on the line and everybody that
wanted them was kind of scrambling to get them.

Bowles: We sold those models, some of them, some of them ah,ah,

some people

had individual orders ah, like um, oh some of the movie actors and
stuff came in from Hollywood or California and bought trucks.

IB:

Ah huh.

Bowles:

IA:

See the plant.

Bowles:

See the plant and see ah, assemble them and soon
them. Quite a few of them done that.
satisfied.

too bad that's all

Just

So, they were all well

.

and so forth to see

IA:

And plus it was a Lansing business, you know, it was at least until
the end.

Bowles: Well, when we was talking about this thing a.h,going bankrupt, I had

always thought that the business people
business people wouldn't get behind it financially
echelon

plant and

was that

the higher

•

•

John D. Bowles
6-9-92
Page 38

IA:

The Lansing business people you are saying wouldn't
help save it.

get behind it and

Bowles:

But I think that they if they would have took a

Because they was, there was too many people taking too much stuff out
of the backdoor.
bunch of them and pick out the ones they wanted and set them down on
a table and just have a good old conversation
would have never went bankrupt.
people that were going to operate the plant and
them and so on and so forth.

Ah, I have always thought that ....

to a group of
expect from

about this thing, it

And

IA:

Yeah, that is a shame that that didn't happen, it would still be part
of the Lansing scene.

Bowles:

It would have saved about 2500 jobs.

IA:

And who knows, maybe by now it would have even be enlarged and there
to
would be more people working, you know, if those trucks continued
be the quality that they were.
There would certainly be lots of
orders for them.

Bowles:

At one time they were talking about doing a new plant.

IA:

Oh.

Bowles:

And ah, there was a lot of rumor but there was going to build a plant
out west of town.

Ah, you know where Don's Truck Stop is out there.

IA:

Yes, yes I do.

Out on 69.

Bowles:

In that vicinity out there.

IA:

I see.

Bowles:

But that all fell through, so ah,

IA:

Did you know any of the men that went from the Reo and started the
Spartan Motors in Charlotte?

Bowles': Yes

and stuff.

IA:

Oh.

Bowles:

Yeah.

IB:

We went out and visited there.

Bowles:

Pardon me.

IB:

We went out to visit Spartan Motors.

•

•

•

• John D. Bowles

6-9-92
Page 39

Bowles:

No, I never, you know, it funny ah, I knew those fellows and I've
seen them and they've invited me to come over there and

IB;We

both went.

Bowles:

Did you?

IA:

Oh you should go if you get a chance, it is very impressive.

Bowles:

And ah , I just ah , just never, you know, ah,

IB:

Never went.

Bowles: maybe I'll go right thru Charlotte, see.

Butah,

here not too long

ago I was talking with one of the fellows that ah, that worked at Reo
that went over there and he told me that one of them that went over
t.he re and just sold his stock.

IA:

IB:

Yes.

And made a lot of money.

Okay.

~

Bowles:

$160,000.

IB:

What was it, what did they say the stock was $1.25 a share

Ah huh.
in the beginning and now I said, oh my gosh.
from Business Week a friend sent me ah that listed Spartan Motors,
this is from Business Week Magazine that Spartan Motors is one of the
10,.40 best small companies in America.

We just got this thing

Bowles:

Yeah.

IB:

Isn't that amazing?
others.

There it is right there.
See this is the name of the article.

Listed with all these
Best small companies.

Bowles:

Yeah, yeah.

I know they are ranging right up there high.

IA:

IB:

Bowles:

• IA:

Yeah, very high.

They are building, they are getting ready to build another addition
on and they've already got what, four buildings, four or five
buildings?

But this fellow I was talking to a little while, he was telling me
well he said he got $160,000 profit.
sell yours.
quick .

Oh he said damn-it, he says I did but I sold it too

I said well Zeek why don't you

Oh.

John D. Bowles
6-9-92
Page 40

IB:

Dh doesn't that make you sick.

•

•