• Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain

6-11-92
Page 1

IA:

Ah this is June 11th, 1992, Shirley Bradley and Lisa-Fine at
the R. E. aIds Museum.
Marilyn and Cal Chamberlain. Right.

And we are going to be interviewing

IB:

I don't know who wants to start first.

Chamberlain:

Ladies first.

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

• Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

• Wife:

IB:

Alright you are going to start first.

Okay.

Well certainly feel free to chime in, you know.
We basically
just ask first of all some information about your background,
you know, where you were born and grew up and where you went to
school and the level of the education, things like that.

Ah I was born and raised in Cadillac.

Okay.

And went to school there. My education is high

Michigan.
school, although I did take a little bit of classes at Lansing
Community College.

Okay, and I think I read in the materials that we got ah, that
you ah, you were an office worker, a clerical worker at Reo?

Ah huh.

Is that right?

Yes.

So when you were in high school did you take the um,
stenography and the typing and all that stuff.

Yes I did. Yes.

And ah,

And I had worked there for a number of years then stopped and
took care of the children until the youngest one was in junior
high.

And then I started back.

At Reo?

Ah huh .

Where did you work before your children came?

Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain
6-11-92
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Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

I had worked in ah, Cadillac at the

.

So you were both living in Cadillac?

No.

Oh this is before you?

Chamberlain:

I was born and raised in New Jersey.

IB:

Oh, in my neck of the woods, because I'm from New York.

Chamberlain:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

Right.

Both of us had been married before and this is the second
marriage.

Oh I see.
because there was an opportunity at Reo for you?

Um, and did you come to Lansing specifically

Okay.

No, my urn,husband came to work at Oldsmobile.

Oh I see, oh okay and you just went with him and got the job at
Reo.

Um, did your folks have a farm in Cadillac?

Okay.

No, they had a grocery store.

A grocery store.

Ah huh.
So I had to, of course, in high school worked in ...
different places and I also worked for them for a while in the
grocery store.

Oh, you helping them out behind the counter.

Yeah.

And are most of your jobs were office jobs?

Ah, after I graduated from high school, yes.
just did odd jobs.

Before that I

Odd jobs.

I worked in a dimestore and ushered at the theater and worked
at Montgomery Wards.

IB:

Salesgirl.

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• Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain

6-11-92
Page 3

Wife:

Right.

Then I started working in the office.

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:• IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

Right, because you got the training in high school.

Ah huh.

I've very interested in this because my first urn,before I got
interested in Reo, I did a lot of work on office workers, that
was my interest.
questions about the training, I'm real interested in that.

And so, urn, that's why I'm asking all the

Once I started working in an office, I knew that I was never
going back to clerking.

Right.

I didn't like that.

Yeah.

You have more autonomy.

Oh yes .

You have more control over what you are doing.

True.

Right.

Urn, and when did you start working at Reo?

It is strange I remember it, so the late '60's.

Okay.

And I can't remember the year.
been in '66? When did Diamond Reo close?

Okay, let's see it would have

Chamberlain:

'75.

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

• IB:

'75, well then I started in '65.

So you worked 10 years.
in?

Urn,and what department did you work

I worked in the urn, service department.

Okay.

As a, were you a secretary?

Ah huh .

Okay, and did you work for a particular boss?

Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain
6-11-92
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Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

I worked for Jim Catamine.

Jim?

Cat

ami

n e.

I i

Ah huh.

Okay, and you were just his

Ah I worked doing just general office work to start with.

Okay.

And then they divided the department
took half of it and I worked as his secretary

and Merrill

Hoffenhocker

for Merrill.

Oh okay.

So when they divided that up.

And you did general office work, correspondence

and filing

Right.

All basic, answering

the phone and all that stuff, okay.

Yes.

Okay.
at Reo.

Now we heard that ah, that office employees

had a union

That was, ah, they didn't have when I hired in.

Okay.

It was after I had been there awhile.

Do you have any, do you remember who the union was affiliated
with, because people that we've asked didn't really have very
clear memories

about this?

UAW.

Was it UAW?

UAW.

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• Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain

6-11-92
Page 5

IB:

Okay.

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

• IB:

IA:

Wife:

Chamberlain:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

• Wife:

Yeah, yes.

Alright and when it came in did you belong to it or

Yes.

You did.
I mean there was never any strikes or anything of that kind?

But they didn't really do very much apparently, they

No.

okay.

Did they improve the conditions for the office

workers?

Well in some ways yes, buddywise, and security.

Oh okay.

You felt much more secure, but as far as relations with people
you worked for, ah, like your boss, it didn't improve that one
bit.

It made it very difficult, in fact, at times.

Okay.

Did they resent the office workers having a union?

Well I think most in the company ....

There is something in between.

Yeah.

He worked for the, without the union, he was with the company,
so he is on the other side.

I guess what I'm sort of hearing from you is that the

Um,so
relationships between the supervisory and the clerical was
actually pretty good. And even before the union got there.

It was.

Ah huh.

It was almost like
Everybody there worked together so well.
family.
There was very few people that'd you ever meet that
you wouldn't care to work for. But as a whole, most of them

Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain
6-11-92
Page 6

were nice, yeah.
for.

There was a few that I wouldn't

want to work

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IA:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

IA:

Wife:

IB:

Over at the Reo?
that urn, if you had a particular
could talk to somebody about it.

Yeah.

But for the most part you felt that

grievance

or problem,

you

With me I always could.

Yeah.

There was always someone
we've had.

.. taking care of with a problem

that

Yeah, we've heard that from a lot of people.
much by the late '60's, but the company itself throughout
whole history has had a urn, reputation
different

for providing
services and, you know, with the clubhouse

Yeah.

lots of
and

its

Um, not so

Oh yes.

all different kinds of things for their employees.
participate
things.

in any of those ah kinds of services

It wasn't really going strong by the way .....

Did you
and you know,

I belonged

to the Diamond Reo Girls Club.

Oh you did.

I was just going to ask you.

Oh.

Yeah.
And I probably
there to work, I'd forgotten,
now I can't say the name of it.

should have told you, when I first went
I worked for urn, oh my goodness
It is like my girl friday or

That's a Manpower.

Manpower.

Okay.

One of their temp agencies.

And I went in to run the blueprint
ah, then as soon as my three months was up, I quit Manpower
the next day I went to work for Diamond Reo.

for three months and
and

machine

What kind of thing does the Reo Girls, The Diamond Reo Girls
Club do?

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• Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain

6-11-92
Page 7

Wife:

Oh you would meet once a month at lunch ah we at Christmastime
we'd of course, get together and make baskets, we'd have
baskets for needy people.

Oh there was just things like that.

Ah huh, and it was all the office, the girls in the office.

Ah huh.

Different offices around the plant.

Right.
Halloween parties of course.
closer.
have otherwise.

And I don't know you'd get together you'd have

It was fun, it brought you a lot
You got to meet so many of the women that you wouldn't

They were in other departments?

Ah huh.

We've spoken with Mildred Gibbs and she told us about the
baskets.

Oh yes.

And fashion shows, I think she had some pictures.

Yes, yeah.
I don't
recall if that was one of the office girls got married but I
remember .... book reception

Oh a wedding reception.

Fashion shows.

Did you try, were you specifically looking for a position at
Reo itself when you came in '65, or were you looking for

No, no, um, my husband, well I stayed home and raised the boys.
So we were here a number of years

In Lansing already?

in Lansing.

Yeah.

Before I decided to work.
went to work, so I went to Manpower.
that offered me the position at Diamond Reo.
was just Reo.

And they are the ones

At that time it

Ah, then when they got old enough I

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IA:

Wife:

IA:

• Wife:

IA:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

• Chamberlain:

Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain
6-11-92
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Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IA:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

IA:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

IA:

It was just Reo.
had been in a car accident I worked for her.

Ah, for well I just sat in for a girl that

As a temporary placement

yeah.

As a temporary.
said that he would offer me the job if I would apply.
soon as my three months was up, I did.

But I liked it so well there and Jim Catamine

So as

Ah huh, I see.

Right.

Did you continue

to do blueprints

there when you rehired?

Then I worked as a secretary, which is what I wanted to

No.
begin with.

One of the things that we are really interested
we've been hearing over and over again is how the Reo was
different

from working from other places.

in this and

It was different,
still do.
every year for a reunion.
until last year for a reunion.

Your friends are still

it was family.

You felt like family, we

ah, we get together
And the girls club that every year

Oh.

And last year was the first year that they didn't.
gotten to the point where people, it was too hard to get them
together.
everyone decided that we would meet at Coral Gables instead.

And somebody had to be in charge.

And ah, so

It just had

Oh that's right, we went there.
to the Goldengate.

Oh no not Coral Gables we went

Goldengate.

The women and of course, working I didn't have a chance, I've
only been retired now a year.

So, sooner or later

So you went to the University

after Reo.

Yes.

Oh I see, okay.

But you were there at the Reo right up until they closed.

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Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain
6-11-92
Page 9

Wife:

IA:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:• Wife:

IA:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

• IB:

IA:

Right up until they closed.

Did you sense that the end was coming or

Dh yes.

You could tell.

Like maybe a couple years ahead of time?

Ah, as soon as the new group took over.
and you could see it.

It didn't take long

Did the office employees have a pension program too as well as
the other did, but and also that was

There was trouble too.

It was trouble too.

Yes.

Yeah, okay.
people as well.

Because we've heard stories about that from other

Dh well I did get some money from it eventually.

Eventually after the

.

What do you think made the Reo so different, besides the fact
that it was obviously smaller than working at Dldsmobile or
some of the other bigger companies?
in particular

I mean was there anything

Just a totally different attitude I believe in working
together.

And who made it that way.
or the, you know, like the higher ups in the organization or

Do you think it was the supervisors

I think it was just everybody as a whole.

Ah huh.

Because everyone was so willing to work together and ah, they
didn't ask you to do something that they weren't willing to
help with if need be.
attitude.

I never worked anyplace like that before.

So it was just, just a different

Really.

.. ideas on that too.

Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain
6-11-92
Page 10

IB:

IA:

Wife:

Yeah, this is one of the things that we are both really
interested in because it just repeats itself over and over and
over.

And that is so unusual and you don't hear that.

I'd never worked anyplace before that was like that and
certainly Michigan State wasn't, although I made many friends
there, there wasn't that closeness. You wouldn't get together.

Chamberlain: The Reo ... supervisors would roll up their sleeves and go

right at it side by side with you .... which I .... I'd go right
on the floor, take a time study if I had to.

IB:

To figure out the better way to do something.
that's part of it we heard. Also that it was a local, some
people said because it was like from Lansing.
the management didn't live in who knows where or

Yeah.

You know, that

Right,

Chamberlain: Well there was somebody in the families you know, brothers and

sisters

.

IB:

IA:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

That's right, we heard that one too. We hadn't ... women who's
husband eight brothers all worked at Reo together with her
husband ..

Her father and her

And her father, right.

Oh you'd see so many families where the father and the son and
it just kept going on down, daughters.

Ah huh, now it wasn't necessarily the best paying place in
town.
more money than other people in other places.

I mean it was fair but it wasn't like you were making

Chamberlain: There was a lot of lean years.

IB:

IA:

Yeah, right, that's true too.

... some of the changes

Chamberlain:

(very muffled sounding voice) And many years we just ....
......... you cannot do it.

IB:

Wife:

Yeah.

Okay.

Now the last, well I worked mostly in service until they
brought ah, advertising in and decided instead of using an

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• Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain

6-11-92
Page 11

outside advertising firm, they would do their own.
brought Bruce Plaxton in to do that and I worked for him.

And they

IA:

Wife:

IA:

Wife:

IA:

Wife:

Plaxton?

Ah huh.

PIa

x ton.

Ah huh.

Yes.

I'll save that for later on when the transcriber has to go over
this and how to spell things.

Ah we typed up all the brochures that was sent out advertising
that went in any magazines or whatever.
Ah' at one time there
was a movie and I wish I could remember which movie it was that
was being made and we worked ah, in contact to the people and
they used the Diamond Reo truck within the movie.

IA:

Oh that's wonderful.

•

Chamberlain:

Was it Race Across Africa.

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

Yes it was, the Race Across Africa.

That's the one.

And it was made in Hollywood using Reo trucks.

They used our trucks.

Chamberlain:

The truck competed with a car.

Wife:

IB:

A car.

Oh I wonder if it is on video.

Chamberlain:

That was really a great movie.

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

Chamberlain:

Yes.

And that would have been in the late '60's maybe?

Probably in the '70's.

Wife:

• IB:

Because I was working for Bruce then.

Huh.

Um,

• Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain

6-11-92
Page 12

Chamberlain: Was it called Africa Safari?

Wife:

I can't remember, African

Chamberlain: African Safari

Yeah, because when we came to

see the movie they gave us the

and that letter and

IB:

Oh my that was nice.

...............................................................
with an elephant.

Lansing here

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

I don't remember.

That would have been a nice thing to have done.

Oh yes it would.

But that just reminded me of the other thing that some people
have said is ah, how proud people were of the products.

• Chamberlain: Oh yes.

Wife:

Oh yes. Definitely.

Chamberlain: Did anyone speak about lawn mowers, they built lawn mowers.

IA:

IB:

IA:

Yeah.

We've heard a little bit about that.

A little. Not a whole lot, but

Chamberlain: That was my territory when I first got into ...

IB:

Oh was it, what did you do there?

Chamberlain: I was a time study analysis ..... and I would go in the lawn

mower department, set up better methods and set up standards .
.. you make so many pieces and hour and you do this and you do
that and set up line balances so that each work station on the
line would have somewhere close to the equal amount of work.

IB:

So the work flow would be kept smooth.

Chamberlain: Right.

• IB:

IA:

Yeah.

They were producing power mowers.

Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain
6-11-92
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Chamberlain: Ah yes, power mowers.

IA:

That would have been what years do you think?

Chamberlain: In the late, see in the '50's.

IA:

In the '50's.

Chamberlain: About '53.

IA:

After the war, when they were

Chamberlain: Yeah, I think they sold the lawn mower department in 1959.

IA:

IB:

Chamberlain:

IA:

IB:

That's right, we just heard that on Tuesday.

Oh we did, we just did

Somebody we just interviewed on Tuesday sprayed the lawn
mowers.

Mr. Bowles.

Chamberlain: Oh John Bowles.

IA:

Right.

Chamberlain: Sure.

IB:

Sprayed them, so we heard about them from him.

Chamberlain: I

.

IA:

IB:

......... oh that's wonderful. I'm sorry, he is not here.

We had a very nice talk with him on Tuesday. Um, but since we
are getting into this, let's get some of the, you said you were
born in New Jersey.

Chamberlain: Yeah.

IB:

Okay.

Chamberlain: A little town in Plainsboro, right 12 miles out of Princeton.

IB:

Oh okay. And urn,how did you get here?

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• Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain

6-11-92
Page 14

Chamberlain:

Well a long story.
then I enrolled at Princeton University

I graduated from Princeton High School and

IB:

Oh.

Chamberlain:

in a business course and then shortly after that I got like
half a semester, ... a full semester, the war broke out so I
was in the Marine Corp and I spent four years in the Marine
Corp. in World War II. After the Service, I finished my
Service, ah, I come home and education didn't seem to mean that
much anymore. My whole attitude had changed.

Wife:

Not after what you'd been through.

Chamberlain:

Yeah,

I didn't need the

IA:

Once you got through that war you probably thought you really
couldn't live forever.

• Chamberlain:

We partied and partied that was August of '46 I got out and the
little town of Platisburg(?) just went wild and we just partied
And I couldn't see a light at the end
and partied and partied.
of the tunnel.
know, there is no way out of this.
just move over to California, go back into the Service and make
that my career.
stopped in Bad Axe, Michigan, to visit my sister, Irene, whom I
hadn't seen in 15 years or better.

On the way from New Jersey to California, I

I could see this going on forever and, you

So I decided that I would

IB:

Oh my what a reunion.

Chamberlain:

Yeah, so we went up there and you and I did, and visited with
them for a couple of weeks and she had her husband and they had
three children then. And I stayed there for a week and I ran
into a girl by the name of Delores Marks whom I later on
And my trip to California (laughter)
married.

IA:

Funny how life changes for us.

Chamberlain:

And because there was hardly any work in Bad Axe, that was bean
country, if you weren't a bean farmer, there wasn't much else
going on.

IA:

Oh okay.

• Chamberlain:

So I came down to Lansing and went to work at Motor Wheel.
worked there for a few months and then they ran out of material
and they laid off a lot of the newcomers which was .... So then
I went to work at Reo.
There was
no openings.

It was hard to get in there.

I

• Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain

6-11-92
Page 15

IA:

Chamberlain: Yeah, I went every day.

I went to the employment office every

day.

IB:

Why did you go to Reo?

Chamberlain: Well, I had heard a lot about Reo and how they had such a nice
family, people to work with and the product was the greatest,
you know, so I wanted to work at Reo.

So I

IA:

What kind of job did you want to get there?

Chamberlain: Well, at the time, I was willing to take most anything to get

started, but I really wanted to get in to engineering.

IA:

Engineering.

Chamberlain:

engineering.

So, finally they got to know me by my

• IA:

Chamberlain:

first name and then the day that there was a job opening, I got
it and I worked in the engine plant.

Engine plant, okay.

I used to ah,

IA:

What did you do

Chamberlain:

I was an hourly worker.
gears, shapes, I made the gears, shaving, drill, so on .....
for the engine.
probably oh six or eight months.

So I worked there in the engine plant,

And I worked on a machine.

I made

IA:

And this must have been sometime in the late '40's or early
'50's already?

Chamberlain:

Early '50's.

IA:

Early '50's.

Chamberlain: Yeah, early '50's. I started there August of '50.

IA:

Oh in 1950. Okay.

Chamberlain:

So I heard there was an opening in the time study department,
so I went up there and I applied. And ah, later on ... called
Clyde Parker was the supervisor of the ...
and Clyde Parker.
department at that time.
So I went up there for an interview
and ah, along with there had been seven or eight other people
interviewed from outside the plant and inside the plant.

And I

•

Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain
6-11-92
Page 16

was lucky enough that while I was in there, Al Zimmer, who was
the plant manager

IA:

Dh yeah, we've heard about

•

Chamberlain:

he ... he came in the office while I was interviewing.
sat down and joined the interview which was a big break for me.
Evidently I sold myself to him.
leave he said well Floyd, he said I guess all you two have to
talk about now is wages.

Because when he got up to

So he

IA:

IB:

Dh.

Dh that was .... (laughter)

Chamberlain:

... tell me to report when .. hired him.

lA:

Right, exactly.

Chamberlain:

That's how I got in to

IA:

Do you think he was impressed with your background,

you know, •

Chamberlain:

Yeah.
somewhat

And I worked ah, putting farm machinery

together

IA:

Right, you had gotten your hands dirty, so you weren't afraid
of that too.

Yeah.

Chamberlain:

Well it sounds like a small thing, but on the jobs I was put on
in the engine plant, I always tried to do just a little better.
If the guy who had 100 pieces an hour, I'd get 102, 103, I
worked just a little harder.
it was always clean and neat and perfect.

And when I made up my time slip,

IA:

Yeah.

Chamberlain:

you know, correct it.

IA:

Can't read this.

this is not right, what did you do,

Chamberlain:

And I was always very careful, so
out from all of them.
it came right out the money every time.
of done, but I took the time to ..... and I think they liked
that.

It was clean and neat, nice printing and
But .... anybody could

desk they picked mine

IA:

Yeah.

Yeah.

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• Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain

6-11-92
Page 17

Chamberlain:

So, consequently, I got into time study. They sent me to
school and seminars.

IA:

Oh you did, where did you go?

Chamberlain: Ah, I went and took courses at LCC. And I went to ah,

Cincinnati, Ohio, for a week in training over there.
tell you the name of the school

I can't

IA:

But it was a business school so to speak.

Chamberlain:

industrial engineering.

IA:

And Reo paid for this.

Chamberlain: Oh yes.

And then after I worked my way up to supervisor of the

IE Department,

IA:

IE stands for industrial engineering.

Chamberlain:

Industrial engineering, yeah.

Okay.

• IA:

Chamberlain: They sent me to ah, Ohio again to an industrial engineering

supervisory course for a week.

IA:

And how long did it take between being hired on in IE to when
you became the supervisor?

Chamberlain: Oh I started in '50, what year was it that I left to be the
supervisor? Of course, I brought my resumes.

Wife:

I wish I ... to bring.

Chamberlain:

It had to be at least nine years later.

IA:

Okay.

Chamberlain: Yeah.

IB:

IA:

I'm going to shut this off, I hear rock'n'roll music out there.

Oh rock'n'roll music.

• Chamberlain: Yeah, that's a good background.

So anyhow, then I worked as a
supervisor for several years and ah, then ah, Zen Hansen became
the first, well first before Zen got there, he was the
president of Diamond T truck over in Chicago. Now the White
Motor Company had bought Reo, sold the lawn mower and ah, then

Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain
6-11-92
Page 18

they were going to merge, they also bought Diamond T.
were going to merge with Diamond T and Diamond Reo.
Reo was then, Diamond Reo was just Reo.
determine whether ah, Reo should move from Lansing to Chicago
and built those trucks in Chicago or should move the Chicago
plant over here to the Lansing plant and build them here.

They
Or just

So they were going to

IA:

Right.

Chamberlain:

There was

I was one of the group that was sent over there.
myself, Clyde Wilcox, Frank McDonald, Jane Logan, and myself.
We were sent over to Chicago to make an analysis of just the
pros and the cons of which way we should go.
finished with our analysis, it was plain to be seen that
Diamond T should move to Lansing.
We could handle their big
cabs much easier than they could handle ours and better paint
systems, many, many things.
Diamond T to Diamond Reo and, of course, Reo then became
Diamond Reo.

So I was in on that part .....

And after we were

IB:

Diamond Reo, right.

Chamberlain:

So then shortly after that ah, let's see it probably would have
been in the '60's and
Arbod Burg became my boss.

That was Arbod Burg.

must have been.

IA:

Arbod Burg?

Chamberlain:

Arbod Burg, Bur

g.

IA:

Okay, Arbod Burg.

Chamberlain:

0 d

Arb
different languages.

That guy could read and speak fluently seven

IA:

Oh my.

Chamberlain:

He was just a real brain.

IB:

And what was his position?

Chamberlain:

He was ah, ah, supervisor of manufacturing

engineering,

IB:

Okay.

Chamberlain:

manufacturing

engineering.

IB:

When the Diamond Reo was merged together.

Chamberlain:

Yeah.

•

•

•

• Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain

6-11-92
Page 19

1B:

Okay.

Chamberlain:

Cappaert bought Reo.

I worked for him for many years and then ah, we will come along
with, I guess
lot of lean years too and there was years there that we weren't
building military trucks, we were down to five or six
commercial trucks a day. So without the military, we have been
down to two .....
government knew him and I shouldn't say but he was unfair with
some of his activities with the government with bids and so on
and so forth. So they wanted nothing to do with him.

Cappaert bought Diamond Reo and the

Because we had a

1A:

Oh I see.

Chamberlain: Reo no longer could even make a bid.

1B:

1A:

Oh.

Oh that is interesting.

• Chamberlain: No we never, you could not bid anymore, they didn't want to see

them.
could see that coming. At least two years in advance I could
see that we weren't going to be around, with Cappaert running
I'm almost 58, 59
the show.
years old. And you know, I was going to be out on the street
without a job, which I was.
henchmen,

So consequently, that was the beginning of the end, I

So ah, what are you going to do?

So, they brought in their

supervising

Cappaert,

IA:

You were one of the ones

Chamberlain: Yeah, I made a senior, ah, I was made a senior ..... instead of

but anyhow that's not the point. That didn't last long
either

.

IB:

Every time we hear it, it still doesn't make it sound any
easier to hear.

(all talking)

Chamberlain:

I

IA:

Add

around,

.

Chamberlain:

(very muffled sounding)

IB:

• Chamberlain:

I we talked to a lady who said she just stood outside and
cried.

I can understand that.

Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain
6-11-92
Page 20

..................................................

Chamberlain:

I was one of the last ones out of there,

IA:

Were you?

Chamberlain:

I helped turn out the lights.

IB:

IA:

We, also people's children said that they were sad because they
used to go there as children to the clubhouse and had very
pleasant memories as young people connected to the Reo. And
the fact that it wasn't there was very exciting to them, you
know. Their parents wouldn't drive by because they didn't want
to upset their kids.

We often ah, have visitors here who mention the clubhouse right
away and that's like their childhood home has been destroyed.
I mean they have that sort of emotional ties to'it. And ...
person they all say it
Why
did they tear it down. The people that started this museum
tried to get that building. That would have been the ideal
place for that.

Chamberlain:

Oh gees that would have been great.

IA:

But the city, of course, owned the property and ah, they just
kept putting
and finally the biggest one was what
you have to completely redo the building and make it
handicapped accessible. It wouldn't have taken that much, some
ramps, whatever, but they made it so expensive that nobody had
the money to come up with it to buy that building.
city leases us this building for $1 a year.

And yet the

Chamberlain:

Isn't that something.

IA:

IB:

IA:

IB:

and this was

.

It is hard to

.

Well

Parking lot.

.

Chamberlain:

Something I was very proud of that I didn't mention is that we
had a steering gear club, I'm sure you heard about that.

IA:

Oh yeah.

Chamberlain: And I was secretary treasurer of that club for a couple three

years and that was an elected office. That was good, we had

•

•

•

• Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain

6-11-92
Page 21

lots of activities, ah baseball excursions to the Tiger games,
etc

remember those.

(laughter)

IA:

I bet they are.

Chamberlain:

And then we had a meeting once a month where we'd have a dinner
and a speaker or some kind of entertainment.

IA:

In the clubhouse.

Chamberlain:

In the clubhouse.

IB:

You guys were upstairs, we heard.

Chamberlain: Yeah.

IA:

We've heard about the big chandelier shaped like a big steering
gear and Louie Garcia was telling us about that and he said he
wished he knew where that went.

• IB:

Chamberlain: We had a nice bar upstairs there, you know,

Chamberlain:

Ah huh we've heard about that.

And a beautiful

Wife:

The girls club up there.

IB:

IA:

IB:

Wife:

Oh upstairs in that room.

In that same room?

Yeah.

Ah, some times there and ah, sometimes, there was a smaller
room,

Chamberlain:

There was a smaller one off to the side there.

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

• Chamberlain:

Yeah.

Sometimes we

There must have been a lot of rooms in that building.
only ever down on the main floor, as a child I was taken there
for some entertainment.

I was

So you had the old Reo car

Did you know they had the first radio broadcasting station

Oh yeah.

Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain
6-11-92
Page 22

IB:

Absolutely.

Chamberlain: And that bowling alley down there at one time.

IB:

I keep wondering what became of all the things out of that
building.

Wife:

You know Cappaert took the car.

IB:

IA:

He did?

He did.

Chamberlain: Dh he robbed, yeah there was a big deal about that, .0

•••••

it

was a 19, what year was that, '27

Reo Cars

IB:

'27 Reo.

Chamberlain: He took that Reo too.

IB:

Wow and he also

Chamberlain: He took a lot of old things, there was tractors and trailers
back in there, engines and transmissions on there, he robbed
the place blind.

IB:

What was he going to do with those, I wonder?

Chamberlain: Dh, take them down to Mississippi, he had a place down there

and he

mobile home.

IB:

Dh I see.

Chamberlain: I remember once there was, we had seven military trucks

.

.
train that came in that day, the side track over there
somebody parked the trucks a little too close and they got
sideswiped. They were all totalled out and the insurance
company paid
Cappaert's place down south where he had them fixed up, painted
the .... and sold them commercially.

but they ended up going to

IB:

IA:

My goodness.

It makes you wonder if he told the guys to park a little
closer.

Chamberlain: But yeah,

(laughter) I mean those are the

things you hear that

IB:

Yeah.

•

•

•

•

Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain
6-11-92
Page 23

IA:

Yeah.

ChamberLaln :

IB:

Right.

Chamberlain:

But that was common knowledge.

IA:

We've heard that when he came in with his special crew, what
was the woman's name?

Wife:

Mildred Jones.

IA:

IB:

Mildred Jones.

I've heard about her.

Chamberlain:

She was

IA:

Wife:

Chamberlain:

•

Hatchet woman, that's just exactly what other people have said.

Oh yes she was, ah huh.

I used to always brown-bag it, my

You know,
lunch, I got to where I quit taking my lunch because what she
would do, she would come in and sit in a person's department
for maybe two or three days she would just sit in their
department and watch and then she would call them into her
office and give them their final check and tell them to go up
and clean out their desk with Herb Wheeler or one of the plant
protection people would be there to help them clean out their
desk.
To make sure that they didn't take anything they
shouldn't.

IA:

Take anything.

Chamberlain:

And that was the end of it. They'd go home right then and
there.

IA:

She never gave you any ... and valid reasons why

Chamberlain:

No notice.

IA:

Chamberlain:

•

So when she came into my department, she spent two and a half
days in there and I said good morning to her, that was all I
ever said.
I think she liked that.
brownie points or anything.

And ah, I didn't try to make any
I quit bringing my lunch.

I went on about my business as if she wasn't there.

I knew

Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain
6-11-92
Page 24

I was going to be fired and she left my department, left ....
............ She might have been just knocking off the high
salary ones.

IA:

Yeah, I would imagine because I've heard from someone that she
promised she would reduce the budget by so much by the first
year she was there.

Chamberlain: And the easiest way to do that is to .....

IA:

It is happening today in places.

Chamberlain: Yeah.

IA:

IB:

That's right.

The Korean War must have brought military contracts again that
kind of brought the business up again. I'm thinking after the
second World War then things went down and they made lawn
mowers, but the Korean War in '50 must have been more military
contracts.

Chamberlain: Oh yes.

Lots of em.

IB:

again. You weren't on ah, the lawn an hourly

employee for very long?

Chamberlain: No, less than .....-..

IB:

so you didn't really have any contact or

in the

union and all that.

Chamberlain: Not to speak of.

IB:

Okay, and then by that time, once you got out of there it
wouldn't have been possible anyway.

Chamberlain: Well that was on the other side ....

IB:

Right, that's right, that's right, okay.

Chamberlain:

I negotiated with em.

IB:

Oh you did, you were on the other yeah.
after their strike in '37 was not a very contentious
organization from what we've heard.

The union at Reo,

Chamberlain: No.

No big ... just grievances by the carload.

IB:

Individual, personal grievances. Yeah.

•

•

•

• Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain

6-11-92
Page 25

Chamberlain:

But I think a lot of it was due to the fact that it was, I
Rather than go to the
think because it was so convenient.
supervisor and try to settl~ it .... like Marilyn did, a lot of
them just said, weli I see my steward

.

IB:

And the steward would take the grievance on .... Were they
usually perceived,
about the
work, the work that they were doing or were they about things
like pay and

I mean they were, ah, grievances

Chamberlain:

Most of it was about the work that they were doing.

IB:

The work.

Chamberlain:

Either somebody was doing their work or they were doing work
that they were not in their job description.

IB:

IA:

• Chamberlain:

IB:

IA:

I see, okay.

Alright,

that seems to be the standard.

What about personal safety too, injuries that sort of thing?
Were there ah, problems with personal safety?

I think there was.
all of the factors were that way, even
problems and until the 1980's rolled around that ah, people
began focusing on the safety ....

I believe back in those days, of course,

they had ..

Environmental

things, yeah.

I was thinking too that Reo being an older factory and the last
few years not putting much, probably not putting much money
back into the new equipment, and was thinking about old
machinery breaking down or causing injuries or

Chamberlain:

Yeah, they put patches on the patches.

IA:

As a labor historian,
I'm very interested in time studies
stuff, you know, because I had even read Frederick Ludlow
Taylor myself.
out of my own personal interest, what was sort of the
philosophy
put into practice?

So I guess I'm just, for my own personal ah,

regarding ah, time and motion studies that the Reo

You were there.

Chamberlain:

Yeah, a fair days work for a fair days pay.

IA:

• Chamberlain:

Okay.

That was the general

.

.

.

•

•

•

• Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain

6-11-92
Page 26

IA:

Ah huh, and how was the in layperson's terms, right without
getting too technical, because I don't know anything about
industrial .engineeringmyself, but um, how was that arrived at
between the fair amount of work that was required from an
individual worker?

Chamberlain: Well figuring the schooling and the training and so on, ah,

establish the percentage of effort that
they
a person is making.
In other words are they working 60 percent
efficiently or you know, and once you've established that, then
you go ahead and just tag the job the way they are doing that.
And then you break down percentagewise.

IA:

Okay and what was the incentive provided to get people up to
par if they weren't performing to that level?

Chamberlain: Ah, when I first started in the time study it was the pay

IA:

• Chamberlain:

Chamberlain

IA:

scale.

Okay, so it was

Now the ... was $1.65 an hour.

And then there was above and beyond that ...

Yeah, you started getting where you earned over $2 an hour, if
you looked

check the job out.

IA:

Okay, I see. Oh, oh, so if they were doing too well, then you
had the red flag.

Chamberlain:

too easy.

IA:

Oh okay.

Chamberlain:

So if they were only making $2 an hour and getting done at 3:00
in the afternoon

IA:

Right, something is wrong.
who um, got together to keep the rates?

Did you ever find out about guys

Chamberlain:

Oh sure, but that's another thing that quite often the operator
would think that he is really pulling the wool over your eyes,
the fact

by slowing down.

IA:

• Chamberlain:

Right.

But a good time study
false moves being made

lots of practice.
.

You could see

Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain
6-11-92
Page 27

IA:

Going a little slower

.

Chamberlain:

I think
setting to see that it is always setting on ..... 6, 7, 6, 7,
6, 7, 6, 7, nobody can be that consistent.

when you start taking your time

"

IA:

Unless they are counting it out.

Chamberlain:

.. count it.

IA:

And take a little break.

Chamberlain:

That way they

So they would know, it is a smart way to do it.
But
could set their rate and know just what it is going to be.
I would always, if I get a person like that, I would take maybe
two or three cycles and then I'd interrupt them and say why is
it that you reach over and
also, why aren't you getting
something with that.
to get into the room and start counting.
cycles
getting into it, then I'd stop them again.
themselves.
Because you'd end up probably
cut them just a little bit closer than you should percentage.

like this .... why aren't you
with this hand, do

And then they started again, they'd have

and as soon as I would see they were

But they go through

They end up hurting

.

IA:

Ah huh.

So did they get mad at you?

Chamberlain:

Oh sure.

I was threatened.

IA:

Oh no.

Oh my goodness.

Chamberlain:

Yeah.

IA:

Oh dear.

Chamberlain:

One day I came out of the parking lot and
of the parking lot and I was standing on the curb and the
traffic and I was looking over at the building and I heard a
car speed up and I looked just in time to see this car swerve
right towards me and I swear the door handle almost touched my
belt buckle.

and I came out

IA:

Oh for goodness sake.

Chamberlain:

And I could see who it was, I just don't want to mention any
names right now.
and this
.... (can't hear)
happened.
this individual,
accident.

Well anyhow and I told him what had
So I said if I ever get hurt out in the shop around
I wanted you to know that it wasn't an

So I went to ah, plant protection

Because I put

.

•

•

•

• Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain

6-11-92
Page 28

IA:

Oh.

Chamberlain:

department

So, a few days later I was walki.ngdown through his area
heading down to the framing and behind a big stack of wheels,
he worked in
wheels and
pallets
he ...
and he couldn't see me coming down the isle, but
where he could, but I couldn't see him, but I could see this
chain pull above and I could see:it swinging back and forth and
I thought somebody is
somebody was going to push something
my eyes open.
the corner I stopped and there come two great big
across the aisle.

.
so I had to keep
So I walked right:along and just when I got to

and they called me and I

right

IA:

Oh my goodness.

Good heavens.

Chamberlain:

He was trying to hit me.

IA:

He definitely was.

• Chamberlain:

This guy had had a problem back when he was

So I also mentioned that to plant protection people and my
supervisor.
younger on a farm. He had run over his little brother with a
tractor, .... falling off the tractor and run over him and
killed him.
And it really affected his mind.
psychiatric treatment for many years and he was went back to
I believe he still had some problem.
his shrink and

But he had taken

IA:

It sounds like it.

Chamberlain:

I would have
for a long time.
when Diamond Reo was going down the tube, people losing their
jobs and I was told
are you,

I just stayed away from him

But you know, that went on

I walked out

Cal, how

But

.

IA:

Oh my goodness.

Chamberlain:

So I guess ah, when the ship was sinking

.

IA:

IB:

• Chamberlain:

Yeah.

you know, did you
Aside from that, how did you
sense urn,you know the sort of stereotypical impression of the
time study person is that they, you know, they walk through and
everybody looks and tries to hid.ewhat they are doing and very
tense.

urn,

Like he is a policeman.

Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain
6-11-92
Page 29

IB:

Right.

Did you get that sense when you

Chamberlain: Oh sure.

IB:

Really?

Chamberlain: Oh yeah.

IB:

Yeah.

•

Chamberlain: Well you didn't make too many friends. But those that came

there really planned on doing a fair day's work for a fair
day's pay. You never had any problem with them. There was
always that few like I said.

IB:

IA:

IB:

Right.

Yeah.

And most of the people we've talked to, you know, obviously
they are the ones that ended up staying longer, so ah, they
were happy, relatively happy with what they were doing.
is exactly what they said, they said you know, you could do
okay at Reo if you did your job and you were conscientious
about it and you know, um, give them a fair day's work ... any
problem, right.

That

•

Chamberlain: Well if you had my philosophy where you tried just a little

better, whatever job you put me on I'd do better
me up the ladder.

help

IA:

Oh I'm sure.

Chamberlain: That's a good attitude.

IA:

IB:

IA:

Wife:

IA:

Yes it is. Wasn't it Louie who said he ..... he took the
dirtiest job and tried to do it a little bit better and

Yes.

and tried a little harder and then he pulled himself up that
way too.
philosophy and possibilities where you can do that and work
your way up.

It is too bad we still don't have that kind of a

Because many of us in the office was the same way.

Is that right.

•

• Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain

6-11-92
Page 30

Yife:

Yell you thought that way. And you always tried to do your
very best, you know.

IB:

Yife:

IS:

That's bound to make a good product and a good feeling.

Oh yes.

Do you know anything about the history of your position?
Reo always have a time study person?

Did

Chamberlain: From the time that I went there they did.

IB:

Right, but I meant from before that, you don't know?

Chamberlain:

... when they built cars, I don"t know ...

IS:

You don't know anything about that, okay. I'm just curLous to
you know when they got that going.

Chamberlain: A good question.

• IA:

IB:

IA:

I could see how it could evolve over time.

Yeah.

Huh, no pun intended there. Ransom E. Olds, Ford supposedly
stoled the idea of the assembly line from Ransom E. Olds.

IS:

And Ransom stoled it from the Europeans.

Chamberlain: There you go.

IA:

So Ransom was obviously an important person and the whole
notion of according to ... inefficiency and production so I was
just curious, you know, even in the early years they had
somebody who was just designed as somebody in charge of looking
over that kind of thing.

Chamberlain: Yell just of the record when I ,~entto work for Harley Davison

after Reo went
started out

I went to Y:lsconsin,

and

100 percent, that's the only way to go.

IB:

What is standard data?

Chamberlain: Yell you take many, many time studies and establish a time for

... 10 inches, 12 inches you aet; up these standards to grasp
and ah, assign and drop or pLace and you set up these charts so
then you look at a job and if the guy has to reach 12 inches to
pick up something,
so much time for
that reach. And then the grasp is the part square, is it

•

Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain
6-11-92
Page 31

So much for a grasp.

And how far he moves it and all these things are timed.

..... and each one has a different

round, is it pointed
for grasping.
move.
And you can sit down and establis9 the ti~e study standard
without even going out to prove it.
had a time study and the union time study was in our
department.
standard was that he left something out

And the only thing he could argue without any

time
And then to pick up and

That's right.

I mean we

.

IB:

I see.

Chamberlain:

He didn't put a brush in there f okay.
look at the job ~nd see well maybe he doesn't have to brush,
maybe we can eliminate that
........ okay he has got a brush

take a look at it
.

And then you go out and

IB:

Um, at Reo, i~ was a worker, for example, thought that they
could do the job in a different way at a better way, than had
already been devised and was being done before.
How did they
go about changing?

Chamberlain:

When I was

all the time

holes right between the teeth.

and the drills came in from the

Well I can tell you that from my own experience.
working down in the plant, ah, I had to the can gears that were
cast iron and we had to drill holes .... and then we had this
horizontal
drill
sides and punched
drills broke off
drill, put a new drill in, pack the machine,
the guy that was running this machine.
they had long shank drills and first off that's expensive,
use a short chain
... move the heads in closer to the ...
drill and I think we got too much feed and not enough RPM.
faster and keep it slower, we wouldn't probably break off these
drill.
I can't tell you now how many pieces per
hour the new rate was, because they could not retime it, boy it
went sky high.

So I said to myself,
I

And the
change the
And I was

So we did it.

so on.

IA:

IB:

Oh sure.

Oh.

Chamberlain:

But somebody looked at that and said there's a guy that has got
a good idea.

IB:

Ah huh and who did you tell that do your supervisor
foreman?

or the·

Chamberlain:

Charlie Butler, he is our foreman.

IB:

And most of them would be pretty perceptive

to that?

•

•

•

Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain
6-11-92
Page 32

Chamberlain:

Oh yeah.
know that was a problem area.

They would come over and look at it. Because they

IB:

Right.

Chamberlain:

And this guy has

.

IB:

I'm just asking this because you know in the automobile
industry today, for example, workers say you know nobody
listens to us, they don't care what;we think about making
things better or doing things in different kinds of ways, but
obviously at Reo we've heard from other people that if the
worker had an idea about how to make things better, it was
listened to. And they would make changes based on what seemed
reasonable and it would be be t t.e r to do it that way.
Which to
me seemed like a really ah, obviously a more effective way to
make products.

Chamberlain:

Of cQursethe
of ideas where you get a payback.

old, now they havEm't said it was for those kinds

IA:

I was going to ask you if Reo if Oldsmobile a worker can make a
suggestion and if it goes through all the committees and
whatever and is accepted, he get:spaid a certain amount for
that.

That didn't happen.

Chamberlain:

Never had that at Reo.

IA:

It was just that you personally made the job better.

Chamberlain:

Yeah.

IA:

Plus, I suppose in the long run it paid off because then they
would think well they needed a good man to put up in this
position, they would automatically think it.
got paid for it.

So in a way you

Chamberlain:

Still it was the fact that I had some brains and could think.

IB:

And when you signed on with the Reo, you said you

Ah huh.
would take anything that you would get, because you knew, or at
least you'd heard that this was the place where you could
reasonably expect to work your lI7ayup.

Chamberlain:

Yeah, work your way up.

IB:

Right.

Whereas at other places, it wouldn't have been as easy .

•

•

•

Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain
6-11-92
Page 33

IA:

I wonder how many people were left on the supervision say that
last year that had been there with you?

Chamberlain:

Hum, there was quite a few of them.

IA:

That's as people are being weeded out.

Chamberlain:

There was still quite a few of them left.

IA:

Ah huh, what was the attitude, they are bringing in new people,
he is bringing in his own team, that's got to build up a
resentment.

Chamberlain: Oh yes.

It definitely did.

IA:

It seems like

Chamberlain:

And I would say, okay,

In cases where I was involved I knew what was

They would not listen to us, you know. Any of our ideas was
..... They never want to make a change and do this or do that,
they wouldn't.
going to happen
this is the way you want it done ,that is the way we will do
it, but here is something you ought to think about, this could
happen, that could happen ..... and it would happen.
Something
to do I remember about the engines, they came from the engine
plant over a conveyor all the way down and ..... railroad
tracks and ah, into the next building.
um,
would collect moisture and get dusty and so on and so forth.
Ah,
little bit
full all the time and
things that we had to salvage.

and so on and so forth, so it got

we had a whole building full of

even overnight because they

wanted them to change around a

And ah, ... over there,

hanging

.

.

IA:

Oh that cost money.

Chamberlain: Well sure. But

IA:

Oh they weren't really interested obviously in making a go of
it

.

Chamberlain: That's the way I figured it.

IA:

Yeah.

Chamberlain:

That was

IA:

Milk and draw.

•

•

•

•

•

•

Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain
6-11-92
Page 34

Chamberlain:

Milk and draw, exactly. Write it off.
of the pension program.

Steal what you can out

IA:

IS:

Frustrating for people like your husband who has been
conscientious, how frustrating t.o work under those conditions.

He must have gone home every night and

Chamberlain:

that is the wOlrstthing

IA:

You got what?

Chamberlain:

I got to drinking.

IA:

IS:

IA:

Somebody else mentioned that toOl,I don't recall

We heard also about suicide.

Yes we did.

Chamberlain:

Yeah .

IS:

IA:

IS:

The works ...

The frustration and the pressure:and the stresses too.

Yeah.
community.

Not to mention the whole community, the loss to the

Chamberlain:

Oh yes.

IS:

It was really such an important part of Lansing.

Chamberlain:

It was a heartbreaker to see friends of yours that worked there
all their lives and they just get; fired, boom, out the door.

IS:

IA:

Wife:

IA:

Wife:

And it was so hard to watch these people that the husband and
the wife both worked there, family, and they are both out of a
job.

Nothing to depend on.

And some
job somewhere else. Close to re:tirement.

these are:maybe not being able to get a

At least my husband is working someplace else, so

So you were there right to the last .

Ah huh.

That was hard.

Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain
6-11-92
Page 35

IA:

Somebody told us that one of the gals we talked to said that we
were talking about the very end, did you know that it was
coming. And she said pretty much what you said, you could feel
it coming, but she said when she went to work that morning, the
doors were padlocked, t.he re were chains over the doors and she
just stood out there. She thought, well it will open tomorrow.

Wife:

You keep hoping.

IA:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

She said there was no announcement or anything, ah, they didn't
come through and say to you Friday is the last day, clean out
your desk.

Right, that's why you didn't bring lunch.

We didn't know when it was coming.

Why walk out and leave that good roast beef sandwich.

Chamberlain:

my last one.

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

Every day you went in you wondered and waited if this was it.
This is the day.

It must have been for you girls in the office, it must have
been new paperwork constantly and changes of orders and changes
of

As they were linking, well they were laying people off, letting
people go and so all of us were having to take different jobs
.................................. and you would fill in where
somebody else had left. Well .. the most seniority it was just
working down.

Oh my dear. Whether that was an area you were trained to work
in or whatever.

Well I wasn't the last, I had
area before, I had no

never worked in that

What was

What did they call it, down whereum,
export maybe.

they placed orders,

Oh not

It was there on first floor and Shirley Crist/worked there.

Chamberlain:

Planning and scheduling?

•

•

•

• Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain

6-11-92
Page 36

Wife:

That's it.

Planning and scheduling.

And

.

Chamberlain:

Something funn), I got to tell you works out, it shows you how
these experts chat; come in, they think they hired a group of
efficiency expe rt s to come in and help them.
and interviewed each supervisor
so forth.
each morning I had to go over to engineering
proj ect, new repr Lnt; and so on, and transmitters
which is
draft on a p Lece of tracing paper this part and then you drew
blueprints

to see what he did and ... and
end of it,

Well, because I was in the manufacturing

So they came in

draftsmen would

well...........

and each new

from that

were looked at

.

IB:

Oh I see it is a

.

Chamberlain:

•

• IB:

.

and

And

(can't hear)

to do with maybe

Ah if there was something

and we would decide if we were

1:hat was me, so I was in engineering,

............................. so they

So, all these tracings were on the table and we would
And

Right.
go through them and see what this change was all about.
then we'd look at the part that the engineer had designed and
then I was one of the group, there was somebody from purchasing
manufacturing
somebody from uh, accounting
going to make 1:his part and how 'we were going to buy it.
if we had equipment facility that would make ... manufacture
... problem, I"d say well
that is no problem.
buying new equipment to try to handle it, then the guy from
purchasing migllt say well gees I can buy that from so and so
for .. bucks I know.
called that line up meeting.
by these expe rt s , and as of course I had to attend the line up
meeting
manufacturing
Fred Culagross I' he was supervisor of truck lineup which is
....... next t.o the president of the company, you work right
for the pr esLdent; of the company he had a drinking problem and
they fired him .. And now they had no
called in the expe rt ,
a single thing I' but because I'm at the lineup meetings .... they
misinterpreted
for the job.
and he hired me , So I was truck supervisor
Boy I conversed with all the big shots in White Motor Company,
all the truck dealers all across the country.
all of a sudden.
a wheel.
square peg could get put into a round hole and I'd accept any
challenge like that .

me
So I went down and interviewed with Eddie Hansen

I didn't know where I was rolling, but I was

what that was all about and they recommended

He knew nothing about truck lineup, not

But you see how that could happen.

So when I was being interviewed

concern each day line up

lineup job so we

of truck lineup.

I was a wheel

so later on

(laughter)

charge of

How a

Sure.

Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain
6-11-92
Page 37

Chamberlain: You know, Fred Culagross could do it, I could do it. So I

leaned heavily on the people that were in the department, they
guided me along and I struggled through it.

IB:

You were an insider, so of course, it was in their interest to
help you out.

Chamberlain: True.

IB:

IA:

They'd rather have you than ~ome of those other guys.

Good point. What did you say Fred's last name was?

Chamberlain:

Culagross

IA:

Culagross.

Chamberlain: CuI

a g r 0 s s, I think. Culagross.

IA:

Was that a pretty frequent the drinking problems with the
people in supervisory?

Chamberlain:

I don't think so.
really, then it got to be ..... yeah.

I think down toward the end when things got

But not

IA:

Yeah, okay.
now

It was almost a repeater then that period right

industry

Chamberlain: Yeah, yeah, the frustration is just really

IA:

IB:

Yeah, that's right.

The stress. Fear.

Chamberlain:

I'm glad I'm retired.

(laughter)

IB:

All the problems coming up, schools

Chamberlain: Of course, after they really down the tube.

(several talking)

Chamberlain:

I went to work for CATA
from them and he wanted me to come down and work with Stan
Wright.

so I got a call

.

.

(two people talking at once)

Chamberlain: job description, so I went down and worked for him.

And I did

this and set up some

got to ride the buses

e

e·

e

Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain
6-11-92
Page 38

Then one of the fellows that used to work for me
he
.

down there.
in time study, called 'me from ah, Harley Davison and
said there was an opening over there for a
send your resume to so and so and so and so, so I thought about
it, I sent my resume over there and
people trying to talk)
was
up
for three months I stayed there.

they paid for my laundry, my food, everything

and executive suite for three months.

and I
They called

(too many

then ah,

.

IS:

My goodness.

Chamberlain:

At Howard Johnson, executive suite
Harley Davison
year than what I made at Diamond Reo as a supervisor which all
things are relevant you might say. You'd get out there and
you'd find out that rent is higher, food is higher, so $5,000 a
year

They gave me $5,000 more a

work for

.

IS:

Yeah, yeah.

And how long did you stay in

Chamberlain:

Three years .

IS:

Three years.

Chamberlain:

Sut my wife just didn't seem to like Milwaukee.
persuade her to move out there and so I had an apartment and
she'd come out and spend, I was trying to wean her away from
Michigan, but it didn't work.

I couldn't

IS:

Michiganders are hard to

Chamberlain:

Yup, she wouldn't hold still for it.
back home and went to work for ITT.

So I resigned and came

IS:

Hancock?

Chamberlain:

Yeah.

IS:

Oh, I worked for them.

Chamberlain:

Did you.

Where abouts?

IS:

In Elston.

Chamberlain:

So did I.

I was the IE there at Elston .

IS:

During what period?

Chamberlain:

1982 until 1989.

•

•

Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain
6-11-92
Page 39

IB:

Oh I was there before that, I was there in '71 and '72 and

Chamberlain:

Did you know the girl that wrote that book, Not Without My
Daughter?

IB:

Wife:

IB:

I don't know her, but my very best friend grew up with her.

Betty Mamundee(?) yeah.

Chamberlain:

She used to work there, she

IB:

She is from Elsie, she is back in Elsie now.

Chamberlain:

I met her and she autographed a book for me.

IB:

She had her sister both grew up with her.

My friend, Bonnie ah, well Bonnie Sharkosky by that is her
married name.
And
ah, she is living back in Elsie and I thought, you know, when
the book came out, I thought isn't she a little afraid about
him knowing where she is. I mean this is, maybe the more
publicity you get the more eyes are turned on you and maybe the
safer you are, I don't know.
know, ... her safety going to be.

But it scared my friend, you

Wife:

IB:

I wondered about that too.

And her daughter.

Chamberlain:

Yes.

Wife:

... worry about her.

Chamberlain:

Well he himself might not come over and do anything, but send
she be kidnapped again.
his henchmen, because he

Side B

Chamberlain:

Wife:

IB:

IA:

Ah when I was working in advertising, the group, Reo Speedwagon
wanted to use that name.

Oh the rock'n'roll group.

Oh the Reo Olds

•

•

•

• Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain

6-11-92
Page 40

Wife:

Wife:

IA:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

Rock'n'roll group.
go through us and we, of course, ... with them for months to
give them the right to use that name.

Well tha~ name is patented.

So they had to

Yes and urn,

Although it wasn't a great group.

No, they sent us their first recording.

Did they?

And I had a copy of it for a long time and I can't find it
anymore.
can't find it.

But it was a terrible song.

I think that's why I

IA:

They were not very good.

Wife:• IA:

Wife:

IA:

Wife:

IA:

Wife:

IA:

Wife:

• IA:

But, ah, but that was very interesting writing back and forth
to them and urn, working on that. And also, we would hear from
them personally.

Oh really?

Ah, because they wanted to use that name so badly.

What did they call themselves before they became REO
Speedwagon, after they finally got permission?

Well ah, they've changed it now, I don't think they call it REO
Speedwagon.

They were here in Michigan last year.

They were just here, I think it is REO, I think they've gone
down to REO or REO Speedwagon for a while.
But ah, yet they
had to get permission to use that.

What kind of channels did you have to go through to get
permission for them to do that?

Well the company itself went through a lawyer and they went
through all kinds of records and different things and finally
agreed they could use that name.
only going to use it for their group.
anything else.

But it was with, they were

They wouldn't use it for

Yeah, that is interesting.

Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain
6-11-92
Page 41

IB:

IA:

Wife:

IA:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

IA:

Wife:

IA:

IB:

Chamberlain:

Yeah, I often wondered

about that.

I h~ve too because when I've g~v~ng tours, and I'm showing
visitors
always bring that up or if I don't, they do.

that we've got out there and they

our REO Speedwagons

Right.

So and I've wondered myself how did they get the right to use
the name.
doesn't mean that the patents are

Just because the company went out of business

And this happened before they went out of business.

Yeah, that group has been around for a while.

Right.

But, um, but it was interesting.

I've heard too, I don't know how true it is, they were going to
come here two or three years ago, the .... two years ago.
They
were on a tour of the midwest and they were going to come in
here and.get some publicity
Speedwagon
truck out here and as it turned out they didn't, but
um, I had heard that one of their first albums had one of those
trucks on the cover with them, posing with it.
how true that is, but

stills taken with the REO

I don't know

I'm not sure about that.
just a little slipcover and it didn't have the picture
anything

But um, the records

on it.

or

they sent us were

Hum.

Um, ... were an

that

during those years, those 20 years.

engineer and um, might be the best person

Um, I have a couple of questions about the whole period
you worked at the Reo, um, from 1950 to 1975.
industrial
this, were there any major changes in the organization
production
obviously
.... period in'the archives over at State.
unit, use of the assembly line and the increasing
production
But I'm wondering,
from the archives,
haven't
if there is anything between 1950 and 1975 in terms of .....

a lot of the '20's and I've done some work on that

done that much work on this myself

efficiency
I
because

during the 1920's.

to ask
of

It was

Um, just the whole

in

The thing that stands out in my mind was really would be

because that's where I worked
paint system which was unheard
and that was real big ... it cost a lot of bucks

... they
of,

No.
in the .... department,
put in an electrostatic
electrostatic
to put it in.

•

•

•

• Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain

6-11-92
Page 42

IA:

How did that improve the paint process?

Chamberlain:

It was all automatic.

IB:

That's what I'm interested in. If they got it

Chamberlain:

.... guys like Johnny .... use that spray gun and if they needed
more spray they put in the electrostatic. It was all based on
electric, magnetics system which is a positive goal ... the
paint would spray out and it would spray out being positive
and the negative, which is the part in the conveyor would draw
the paint to it.

IB:

Oh really.

Chamberlain:

Oh yeah.

It

all around the new crevices and

.

IB:

That's the one that coming down the line was just automatic.

Chamberlain:

• IB:

Chamberlain:

Is the parts at that time.
over to the assembly line.

parts

and go right

Were there any efforts to become more ah, automated in the
process at all?

I think that the conveyors as as matter of fact, I can't tell
you how many miles, probably somebody
they had.

.......................... conveyor systems .

miles of conveyors

IB:

Oh okay.

Chamberlain:

That's what speeds up production.

IB:

yeah, but not in terms of picking up, because

already by the early '70's you know, the automobile industry
was trying, was getting more, smart machines and automation and
things like that.

I think that

Chamberlain: Now Reo put patches on the old ones.

IB:

IA:

IB:

Okay ,alright.

They weren't going to spend any money on any new process.

Somebody who was working in let's say 1955 in the plant,
wouldn't have had any trouble working in 1970.

•

Chamberlain:

Oh no.

Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain
6-11-92
Page 43

IB:

Chamberlain:

They would have been able to come right in and start allover
again just like happened before.
of the workers.
types of workers um, their relation to the company, anything
like that between when you started

Did you see any change in the attitudes, the

Okay. Um, how about in terms

Oh yes, back when we were on piece work ah, every operator ....
got production and they did good work.
Because you didn't get
paid for bad pieces, you know, and now days you do. But back
then you didn't. Ah, but anyhow, as soon as we went from piece
work to standard time, immediately scrapped and rework went up,
okay, toward the percentage of that ...

IB:

Yeah, and that was in the late '50's, in the late '40's that it
switched, right?

Chamberlain: No it was in the '50's.

IB:

In the '50's? Okay.

Chamberlain:

And production went down.

IB:

Ah huh.

Okay.

Chamberlain: And a couple the production going down along with your upswing

and scrap and rework.

IB:

And the bad pieces.

Chamberlain: And boy it cost the company a fortune just to do the piece work

done.

IB:

Was that because of the union that they switched? Yeah.
One
of the workers we talked to, I can't remember what department
he was in.

Chamberlain: Colin.

IB:

Yeah, he complained about that. He said he couldn't make as
much money, because when he worked on piece whatever he put
into it that's what he got out.

Chamberlain:

So why

why try to

.

IB:

He resented greatly that no matter what he did, he was going to
make the same amount of money.

Chamberlain: No incentive.

IB:

Right.

•

•

•

•

Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain
6-11-92
Page 44

Chamberlain:

But I'm a firm believer in

IA:

Right.

Chamberlain:

I know it works.

I saw what happened

.

IB:

Yeah, any other change about the workers .....

Chamberlain:

No nothing that comes to my mind.

IB:

Were they younger, did they start coming in younger in the
'60's.

Chamberlain:

Not that I knew.

IB:

It seems like the same kinds of groups.
kind of backgrounds from the Lansing area.
lot is a lot of ah, workers off the farms ... people who came
from farms.

Coming from the same

One thing I read a

•

Chamberlain:

Oh yeah, many of them had small farms and also worked at the
Reo.

IB:

Right, right. But still so little different than like Flint,
and Detroit and so the work force is a little different here.

Chamberlain:

And then, of course, there was the days when the government
said you have to have so many minority workers.

IB:Right

when did that start in the '60's?

Chamberlain:

Yes, in the '60's.

IB:

Yeah, do you think that made a big change?

Chamberlain:

Oh yes, it did. And
minority people or anything like that, but so many of them were
come here to go to work and it would take two of them to do
what one older worker used to do. And ah, that was the only
thing.

I'm not against the

IB:

Mos.tlyblacks or did they start hiring Hispanics, African
American, mostly blacks?

Chamberlain:

Mostly blacks.

IB:

•

How about women? Um, we already know from talking to other
people that in World War II they started coming into the plant
in the line.

Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain
6-11-92
Page 45

Chamberlain:

Of course I wasn't there then.

IS:

Right.

Chamberlain: That was during the war.

IS:

Right, so they were already there.

Chamberlain: Yeah. And

women

a good job.

IS:

Yeah.

Chamberlain: Of course I'm outnumbered a little bit here.

(laughter)

IS:

You are close to the door.

(laughter)

Chamberlain:

I have no objections to ever .... a woman on the job, because
they do good work.

Most of them

.

IS:

Were they mostly in separate departments?

Chamberlain: No.

IS:

They were all integrated in the plant.

Chamberlain:

I take that back, 85/80 that was the packaging department, they
had practically all women over there.

IA:

Something they could specifically handle.

Chamberlain: They were good packaging, that kind of thing women take a

little bit more pain with than a guy would do.

IA:

Ah huh.

Chamberlain: They worked out much better.

IA:

You wouldn't be so apt to see them down on the .....

Chamberlain: Right. Yeah, nice and clean and

clean and the

fellows didn't care.

IS:

Urn, I know from the old days, you know, way before
World War II, the women were found in um, ah, the sewing for
the seats and upholstery and things like that.

Chamberlain: Up in Department 23 the cab building, they had wiring

assemblies, the

and they

.

•

•

•

•

•

•

Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain
, 6-11-92
Page 46

IB:

.. that too. There were certainly departments where they
tended to be more abundant.

Chamberlain:

That's right. But they also ran the punch presses.

IB:

They did?

Chamberlain:

Oh sure.

IB:

I'd loved to have seen that. I really would have wanted to see
that. That's great.

Chamberlain:

Well if worked at

.

IA:

Punch presses and welders and the seat tracks.

Chamberlain:

Was Ernie Ringle the boss over there at that time?

IA:

No, he wasn't.

Chamberlain:

Dick Loins.

IA:

I think

plant manager everyboby liked and he left.

Chamberlain:

Dick Chamber was the plant manager when I left there.

IA:

Oh Suzanne ..... I worked for Paul Turner, he was my
supervisor.

Chamberlain:

Oh yeah. He was

Paul, he retired just two years ago.

IB:

IA:

Oh he did.

Yeah, that's right he did.

Chamberlain:

... Crystal

IA:

IB:

Yes, yes, he had

.

Um, did you both when you were working at Reo live in homes of
our own houses or did you rent apartments?

Wife:

No, home.

IB:

You had your own homes. Urn,were they somewhere near Reo? A
lot of people we've talked to have settled someplace near? You
know, like in the south part of town.

Chamberlain:

Seventeen miles I drove. Ah, that's where I'm living today.

Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain
6-11-92
Page 47

Wife:

But you also lived on Delores(?) Street.

Chamberlain: Oh yes back in back in the very early '50's, I lived on Delores

Street. That's where I met Marilyn.

IB:

Wife:

IB:

Wife:

Oh really?

We lived on ... Street and I did when I started at Diamond Reo.

What number on

.

Oh dear, it

Chambe~lain:

... 15, 2115

Wife:

IA:

IB:

Ours is 19 something and it is the first house right behind
that old Christian Science Church they have there.

Okay.

I don't know where this is.

Wife:

It is right off Mt. Hope.

IA:

IB:

IA:

It runs from Mt. Hope to Baker.

Oh okay.

And she used to live right behind the ...

Wife:

I'm on the other side of Mt. Hope on Baker.

I was on ..

...............................................................................................................
Mt. Hope, the first house.

it is just south of

Chamberlain: That's where um,

.

Wife:

It was across Mt. Hope.

Chamberlain: She was born on Delores Street.

IB:

IA:

No way, I didn't know that. Do they have a little plaque.
(laughter)

She used to live on Ada Street. Right down where it dead ends.

Wife:

Claims of fame.

Chamberlain:

(laughter)

•

•

•

•

•

Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain
6-11-92
Page 48

Wife:

Um, but that was a nice street.

I think it was 1917 it has been so
...........................
many years.
That was another
one of these streets where you made permanent lasting friends,
but we
that lived there.
got a mobile society now.
started Diamond Reo and we moved urn, to the

I still see some of those people

But I was living there when I

The old neighborhoods

were different

it goes on.

.

.... we

IA:

And how did you two meet?
obviously.

You didn't meet at the Reo

Chamberlain:

Wife:

No, we lived on Delores Street
sure just where I wanted to work and I found that I
and ah, Paul and Marilyn and their family moved in

city

.

because I wasn't

And then one of the people that he mentioned that worked at
Diamond Reo, Pride Wilcox was my brother-in-law ....
eventually Clyde

fished together and

and

Chamberlain:

And then I decided I didn't want to live in the city anymore, I
wanted to get out where the kids could have some room to play
ball and so on, so in 1959 and .... isn't that strange?

Wife:

But we moved out when the boys got to the point where Steven
had gone to Walter French for junior high and Jeff was getting
ready to start and we no longer wanted the boys in the city
And ah,
schools.
so we bought a house in the
area, but it is just
off Meridian Road and one side of Meridian Road is Okemos and
our side was Williamston.

So we wanted to move out, get out of town.

Williamston

IA:

And how many children did you have?

Chamberlain:

Three.

IA:

You had three.

Chamberlain:

Two boys and a girl.

And you had two boys.

Two boys.

Yes.

So you have a house full at Christmastime.

Oh yes we do.
parties in the summer where all come, but that's fun.

We have our house is full and also we have deck

IA:

Wife:

IA:

Wife:

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Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain
6-11-92
Page 49

Chamberlain: We used to go over and visit with Paul and Marilyn and play

cards a little bit. My wife and I do this. She passed away
um, seven or eight years ago. Paul passed away

Wife:

In '77.

Chamberlain:

'77, see when I went to work in Milwaukee I just lost track of
Paul and Marilyn ..... apart. Paul died while I was out there
and I didn't even know about it until I read it in the paper

and ah so that was it. And then one day when I was back

home in Michigan and I had gone to a ball game, my son pitched
fast pitch softball in Rainey Park. And ah, I went into a
restaurant and had something to eat before I went to work right
from the ball game and Marilyn was in there with a girlfriend
of hers.

And I don't know how many years,

Wife:

IA:

Wife:

IA:

Wife:

IA:

Wife:

IA:

Oh that was such a surprise.

Aren't you glad you went to dinner that night?

Yeah.

(laughter)

Marilyn, what was your name before it was Chamberlain?

Uptegraft.

Okay you are going to have to spell it.

g r aft.

u pte

Okay.

Chamberlain: That was a good question. Because

that name for her

.

Wife:

Oh you weren't with Steve on, oh he enjoyed that so.

Chamberlain:

It is a small world, isn't it?

Wife:

Yes, that's my oldest son.

IB:

IA:

Oh for goodness sakes, well you tell him Shirley Bradleys son
... (laughter) What is he doing on the ....

Oh from BOC he was one of our van drivers, but he was more than
that, he organized these van drivers. They started up the
expedition ..... they had to be here for two weeks, you know,
well the shop sent me and I'm getting paid so okay, and with
Steve's input and personality, he molded these guys into the
greatest group.

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Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain
6-11-92
Page 50

Wife:

IA:

Wife:

IA:

Wife:

IA:

Wife:

IA:

Wife:

IA:

Wife:

IA:

He is like that.

We hated to part when it was.over. He really is interested in
the environment of tne river and he caused these other men to
feel the same way.

He is so very active in the Sierra Club.

Yes he is. And that's partly what brought him in.

He's been to Washington lobbying.
mothers like to hear that too.

I'm pleased,

Of course they do.
proud out there, we like him.
been too active in
of

Of course they do . You've got a boy to be

He still probably,
the last few

haven't
it's kind

I haven't heard him say too much about it, but ah,

But what we did is we established the idea, we established the
reasons and all these watershed councils now haye come from
that Grand River, Looking Glass, Red Cedar and so on.

Right.
ended up

Well it tickled me because Steve started out .... he

They all did?

Yeah.

I'd rather, I'd rather get a canoe than a van.

Chamberlain:

He was standing up.

IA:

Wife:

IA:

Chamberlain:

You start out in a group of 200 people who don't

Yeah, really.
know each other and you know, you keep your own space and we
were clinging together
to break up and you know it will never be the same again.
are not going to have that

oh two more days and we got

You

.

.....................................

Have that particular cohesiveness.

Well the nice thing about I saw Steve and Jeff grow up you
know, naturally
was

so our relationship

.

...................................................................

Marilyn & Calvin Chamberlain
6-11-92
Page 51

IA:

Wife:

IA:

Wife:

Everything just fit right together, you didn't have those
blended family problems.

Right, because Doris .... baby-sat with my boys.

Oh.

So it is wonderful for them as well as for you.

It is they all know each other.

Chamberlain: And the strange-part about it is that as many times as we were

up to Paul and Marilyn's house, and they were over to our
house,
Paul's wife. No I never had any little secret love for
Marilyn.
mother for the kids.

She was just an awful nice person and made a nice

I never ever looked at Marilyn as anything but

IA:

My this is a great story.

(laughter)

Chamberlain:

I can tell you a better one.

IA:

Oh oh, please do.

Chamberlain:

I won $10,000.

IA:

Oh the lottery?

Chamberlain: No ,.WFMK Radio.

IA:

Oh my goodness.

Chamberlain: That is a story that is my favorite. They send these fliers

out in the Reo which

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