•

•

Wayne
6-18-92
Page 1

IA:

IB:

Oh dear, I'm not going to be able to do that.

This is Shirley Bradley and Lisa Fine at the R. E. Olds Museum and we
are going to be talking with Wayne Nunnheimer about Reo memories.

Wayne:

was right, ah, you had to have 30 years in in order to realize

anything. You didn't ah, ah, when the government got through
slashing us, I meant the first thing, let's say that I retired at
550, see that was suppose to be my pension.
government says oh oh oh oh we got a loop~ole here.
pay your union incentive, well what do that mean to me.
right down the drain off of that $550. Then, they said well, you got
30 years in, so you are sitting prettier than the rest of them.
I
mean because you got your 30 years in, see, the poor fellow that's
got 25 years in say, maybe 25, 26, 27 maybe not quite 30

We don't have to
$300 went

Okay, the ah, the

IB:

Close enough.

Wayne:

see, what is he going to get at the age of 62 or 65 if they prorate
him like they did me. When they took away the $300, but it didn't
hurt in a way.
I mean beca~se I'll tell you why.
this was $550 until they put you 6 foot under the ground. Alright,
now, so they put you 6 foot under the ground, alright now I said what
happens when I get to be 62?
See I mean, we had ah ah, well ah, the
retirement of 30 and out regardless of your age if you was only 49.

The contract read

IB:

Yeah.

Wayne:

It didn't make any difference.

IB:

Didn~t matter, yeah.

Wayne:

That's right. You still got your $550, see, I mean you got your $550
until, until they put you 6 foot under the ground. Well, alright.
Ah, .... going to tell you. Alright, the government well, anyway,
what happened to my pension when I was 62.
at 62, they ah, then oh, what's it called,

Say I elected to retire

IB:

Maybe this is a good spot to stop and get the paperwork out of the
way, I think.

IA:

Yeah, is that okay with you, Mr. Nunnheimer?

Wayne:

Yeah.

IA:

IB:

•

Okay.

It will give you a minute to think about it. And we'll come back to
it.

•

Wayne
6-18-92
Page 2

IA:

IB:

IA:

We want to take your tape off, Shirley, just for a second.

Yes.

Okay, usually what we do at the beginning when we start is just to
get some background about the people who worked at Reo. You know,
where they came from, what their families were like. Um, first of
all if you were born here in Lansing or if you came from somewhere
else before you worked at the Reo.

Wayne: Well, what do you want to know first. Where I was born?

IA:

Were you born here?

Wayne:

No I was born in Bay City.

IA:

Bay City, Michigan?

Wayne: Yeah.

Bay City, Michigan.

IA:

Ah huh, were your parents farmers up there or did they work in a
factory?

Wayne:

No my dad worked at a foundry during the World War I.

IA:

Ah huh, in Bay City?

Wayne:

In Bay City, yes.

IA:

Okay.

Wayne: And in 1918 when I come along.

•

IA:

Oh I see. Okay. It was 1918. So you were a happy baby.

Wayne:

I was a World War I baby.

I was a World War I baby.

IA:

Okay. Urn,were your dad's folks urn,from the United States?

Wayne:

Oh yes.

IA:

They were from here.

Wayne:

They were, while they was born in Indiana. My mother was in Belding,
Michigan.

IA:

Oh, your mom was from Belding?

•

Wayne: Ah huh.

•

•

•

Wayn.e
6-18-92
Page 3

IA:

Okay.
Bay City?

Okay.

And did you go to high school, go to school in

Wayne:

Yeah, well no, no, no. When I was an in ah, hum, still well before I
went to school they moved to Lansing.
didn't go to any school, no in Bay City, no.

But anyway, ah, let's see.

I

IA:

No you moved before that.

Wayne:

That's right.

IA:

Why did your parents move here?

Wayne:

Oh, that's a good question.

IB:

Wayne:

Maybe there weren't any jobs in Bay City, is that possible?

\.-

Well, there were Jobs there. Ah, ah, my father was training in a
boiler factory, I mean that's a, he was working for 25 cents an hour.
When they were making good money during World War I I'm talking about
s.ee. He ah, he did ah, he was working for 25 cents an hour and
apprenticeship, you might as well say it was an apprenticeship .

IA:

Right.

He was learning the trade.

Wayne:

Right, well how come I don't know why they moved to Lansing.

IA:

Maybe he had a better jot here?

Wayne:

Well eVidently he did, because well 1918, you see, the war was over
then, wasn't it?

IA:

It was Justending.

Wayne:

Yeah.

So evidently he come to Lansing

IA:

He came when you were very small.

Wayne:

Right, okay, he must of come to work at Reo then because I was only
in the grade school then.

I was in the grade school when we

IA:

Here in Lansing.

Wayne:

Here in Lansing.

IB:

And your father came and worked at the Reo?

Wayne:

Yeah I think he did, yeah I think he did, he worked because he did
put in ah, what was it, 40 years anyway.

•

•

•

Wayne
6-18-92
Page 4

IA:

Your dad worked 40 years at Reo?

Wayne:

Yeah, you see ah, from World War I up to ah, 1937 ah, he

Yeah.
worked at Reo see.
going to go broke that time too.
they would have.

He worked at Reo.

Alright,

at that time, Reo was
If it hadn't been for World War II

1:8:

An huh,.

Wayne:

They would have went broke, they would have went out of existence
see.

you

IA:

Yes.

Wayne:

And ah, so my father was there, I mean he was still working.
21 years in at that time, now maybe you can figure up now, but

He had

IA:

Twenty-one

years when World War I,

Wayne:

From World War I up to 1937, see or pretty near the outbreak
World War II .

of

IA:

Okay, you guys must have moved here right after you were born.

Wayne:

Well, yeah you are right there.

IA:

Wayne:

Because as I say, and when I went into grade school, Kalamazoo,
Kalamazoo

Street.

IB:

Oh Kalamazoo

Street.

Wayne:

Yeah, Kalamazoo
I went to West Junior.

Street School, when I went in there, then, of course,

IB:

Yeah.

Wayne:

Then to Old Central,
out of Central.

that's where I graduated.

I'mean I graduated

IB:

What was your dad's name?

Wayne:

William.

IB:

William Nunnheimer.

Wayne:

Ah huh .

IB:

What did he do in the plant?

• Wayne

6-18-92
Page 5

Wayne:

He was a sheet metal layout.
well I can tell you something, I meant ah, say you wanted a cabinet
put in here on
layout

you know I mean say it ah, he would ah, go

I can't tell you too much about it,

the plans on how to make it, see.

the plans.

Layout

IA:

He was very skilled.

Wayne:

He was in skilled trades, I wasn't.

Right.
working at Reo, I mean I'm just a common laborer, I'm just a common
laborer.

I never no, I mean even

IB:

He was there during the big strike then, or just right after.

Wayne:

Right, right, with the sitdown.

IA:

The sitdown in '37.

Wayne:

The sitdown strike in

IB:

• Wayne:

IA:

Did you remember anything of that? What that he might have said

Urn, I can remember vaguely ah they had to stay in the plant, see,
they locked all the doors and they stayed in the plant and you fed
them through the windows.

You were a teenager then, you were probably still in high school.

Wayne:

Well huh, I must have been.
at that time.

Because I don't remember how old I was

IB:

Did you go down with your mother to feed him through the windows?

Wayne:

Well I must of.
day, naturally, I mean they all did.

(laughter) Because, I mean, he stayed during the

IB:

He did, he participated in it.

Wayne:

Yeah, that's right, yeah.

IB:

Was he in favor of it? Or did he do it because he felt he had to?

Wayne:

Yes, because at this time, the union was not noted.
they were fighting to get the union in here, yes.

You see, I mean

IB:

And he wanted the union?

• Wayne:

That's right, yeah, because ah, well ah, let me tell you something.
The Reo used to be called the Olds Soldiers Home.
You know, if you
got a job there it was easy. You know, not like General Motors, I
mean put somebody on the line over in General Motors and you

I

• Wayne

6-18-92
Page 6

mean you know, car one right after the other. And Reo was a little
different.
I mean that's why they got the name of the Old Soldiers
Home.

IA:

Who called it the Old Soldiers Home?

Wayne:

Don't ask me.

(laughter)

IB:

Maybe everybody huh?

Wayne:

Yeah.

IB:

That's interesting.

Wayne:

Well

IA:

Did the workers call it that too?

Wayne:

Oh sure.

IA:

• Wayne:

IB:

Oh okay .

Because even if the General Motors, you know, they'd say you worked
... oh you work at the Old Soldiers Home, huh.

Because things can't go on the line similar

Wayne:

Why sure, it was so much different you see, but Reo was trying to get
a union started during the sitdown strike. They were trying to get

IA:

If it was so easy, why did they want the union for?

Wayne:

Well it was easy and it wasn't.
get behind the posts and watch you work.
was a little bit too easy,

They had time study men that would

They figured that your job

IA:

I see.

Wayne:

so if they say what can we do to make it harder.

See.

IB:

How can we get more production out of this person.

Wayne:

Right, that's right. That was the whole thing in a nutshell was
trying to get more production out of everybody.

IB:

• Wayne:

Did work change a lot in the '20's, that the men were upset about or
maybe they were worried about the conditions from the '30's, you
know, laid off and bad times .

Well that I can't tell you.

• Wayne

6-18-92
Page 7

IB:

You don't know. You don't remember your dad saying anything about
those things.

Wayne: No.

IB:

Okay. Okay.

Wayne:

No.

II:

You didn't mention about the time study.

Wayne: Yeah, that's right, well that was the reason the union got in, yeah.

They wanted a close shop. That is ah, ah,

IB:

The management wanted a closed shop?

Wayne: No, no, no, no,

IA:

The workers.

Wayne: workers

• IB:

The workers wanted a closed shop.

Wayne: wanted a closed shop because you see then, you know what that means,

don't you.

Sure.

Yes. Only the union in there. Only union members.

IB:

IA:

Wayne: Alright.

That's right well you had to join the union, whether you

wanted to or not.

IB:

Right.

Wayne:

Or you didn't have a job.
what a closed shop is.

See I understand ... if you understand

IB:

IA:

Yes.

Yes.

Wayne: Alright.

IA:

• IB:

I do.

And urn, did your dad thing things improved after the strike, when
they got the union in?

• Wayne

6-18-92
Page 8

Wayne:

Yes it did, because they had stewards in, I mean if you had a
problem, you could go to the steward.

IB:

Okay.

Wayne:

And he could go to management, then you see, they would go to
management.

IB:

Right, so you had recourse

Wayne:

That's right.

IB:

for your grievances.

Wayne:

Yeah, you are right.

Yeah you had ah,

IB:

Okay.
there participate in, you know, the activities at the Reo

Um, did your dad ah, and your family when he was a worker

Wayne:

Yes.

• IB:

IB:

Wayne:

in the clubhouse and the sports teams and the band and all that.

We didn't do that, no.

Okay, good

Wayne:

Yeah, ..... ah, that's why Reo was always noted as kind of a family
group.

IB:

Okay.

Wayne:

You say the clubhouse was there, we had activities

We had picnics.
there because I can remember when I was in grade school, ah, going to
Being able to buy 1 cent candy or
movies every Wednesday and Friday.
5 cent candy bars.

IB:

Oh pretty good.

Wayne:

(laughter) I could remember that.

IB :

And the concession, they had a concession there.

Wayne:

That's right, yeah.
candy bars.

That was when they had penny candy and 5 cent

See I mean they were not 40 cents, you know.

IB:

And they were bigger candy bars too.

•

Wayne:

Yeah.
Then I graduated in 1937.

And that way, you see, okay that's I went all through school.

• Wayne

6-18-92
Page 9

IB:

The same year as the strike.

Wayne:

Right.

Now wait a minute.

IB:

Yeah, that was the

Wayne:

Can't be right then.

IB:

Okay.

Wayne:

That can't be right then, the strike was before that.

IB:

The strike was March '37.

Wayne:

Yeah.

IB:

March' 37.

Wayne:

Because ah, ah, the strike was over

IA:

When you graduated?

•

Wayne:

Well yeah,

IA:

IB:

IA:

Well you must have graduated later that spring?

Yeah,

Did you remember the Lansing Labor Holiday when everything closed
down downtown?

Wayne:

Yeah.

I can remember that.

I can remember

IA:

IB:

That was the same year as the strike.

Were you downtown at that time, maybe from high school?

Wayne:

Not unless they wanted a band.

IB:

IA:

IB:

Oh you were in the band.

You played in the band.

What did you play?

Wayne:

• IB:

IA:

I played the trumpet, yeah.

You played a trumpet.

Oh great.

• Wayne

6-18-92
Page 10

Wayne:

Yeah I started in the seventh grade, yeah, seventh grade learning to
play and instrument.

IB:

Going back to

Wayne

IB:

I'm sorry Mr. Nunnheimer,

Wayne:

Alright.

'IB:

Going back to the clubhouse and the activities there besides the
shows, do you remember going there for anything else?

Wayne:

Dances.

Yeah, they would have dances there.

IA:

You went there as a teenager for the dances?

Wayne:

I don't know as I ever went

IA:• Wayne:

IA:

Oh but you know that other people did.

Yeah that's right, yeah.
he could have went with mother.

Ah,

And I don't know if my father went, I mean

How about sports teams and things like that, baseball, because the
Reo had a real good city league team?

IB:

Your dad didn't play on the team or at:lything.

Wayne:

Oh no, no, no, the only activity he wanted to just go in the
clubhouse for taking me to the movies, yeah.

IA:

Okay.

Wayne:

Because you see, I mean you had to have a pass in order to get on
into the movies, you know.

IA:

And then it was free.

Wayne:

Yeah.

IA:

It was free.

That's right, and then it was free, yeah.
show that you was a Reo worker ....

But you had something to

Right.

Wayne:

• IA:

• Wayne

6-18-92
Page 11

Wayne:

Of course, I don't know how many passed their cards on down to
somebody.

IA:

Did your mom work outside of the house?

Wayne:

Well, if you call playing the organ.

IA:

She played at church?

Wayne:

Yeah.

For eight years.

IA:

IS:

Um, well that's work.

That's where you got your musical ability, right?

Wayne:

That's right, well and my father played the trombone.

IA:

Oh he did?

Wayne:

• IB:

IA:

Wayne:

Yeah, he was in the band.

They were both, in fact, that's

In the Reo band?

No, no, no, no, he was in the high school, I mean, ah ,

Oh okay.

Wayne:

and if you want to go way back into history, my grandfather was
captain of the Salvage Army.

IS:

Up at Bay City.

Wayne:

No, Bellevue, around Belding around
that they made him travel. My mother said she had, when she was in
school, had to get her lessons after she quit playing the piano for
him.
Yeah, she says she spent many a time well as I say, I
mean, ah, at that time, Salvage Army well I mean if you could just
carry a tune, you was called a singer.

He was one of them ones

Yeah.

IB:

Oh is that right?

Wayne:

• IA:

Wayne:

Now if she played it for eight years down at the South

She says I played for many a people that didn't know what they were
singing.
Baptist Church which was my home, that was my church too.
was still in grade school when she was playing the organ.
was

Because I
So that

How many brothers and sisters did you have?

I don't have any.

•

•

•

Wayne
6-18-92
Page 12

IA:

Oh you were the only kid, huh.

Wayne:

I'm a spoiled brat.

IA:

Wow you had a lot of attention.

Wayne:

I'm spoiled, according to my wife.

IA:

Well now that mayor may not be true.

(laughter)

Wayne:

She came from a family of nine.

IA:

IB:

Oh my, oh my.

So she did thing you were spoiled.

Wayne:

So that's why she always said I was a spoiled brat.

IB:

Does she still say that?

Wayne:

Well yes and no.

IA:

Did your mom and dad own a home?

Wayne:

Oh yeah.

IA:

They did?

Wayne:

Yeah, we bought a house at 910 West Hillsdale, which was a nice
neighborhood, but not now.

IB:

Yes it was then, that wasn't too far from R. E. Olds, thought.

Wayne:

No, and by then '37, up to '37 see, I mean that's because dad could
see the handwriting on the wall about Reo going broke, see.

IB:

Oh he could.

Wayne:

Well then at that time, he had a brother that ah, worked for the
Bureau of Engraving in Washington.

IA:

Washington, sure.

Wayne:

Yeah.

IA:

The Mint.

Wayne:

And ah , he was visiting us and he said, dad, he said well pa.,

Yeah.
he said you got so many years of ah, experience in sheet metal work,
why don't you write into the government and ask them if they've got a

• Wayne

6-18-92
Page 13

So he did.
job.
to Norfolk, Virginia.

Well it come back and said yes.

If you want to go

IA:

He didn't want to go.

Wayne:

(laughter) Well, he didn't want to go, but gee whiz that was the only
option they had.
he couldn't get in General Motors.

So, he said he couldn't get into the Olds, I mean

IA:

They just weren't hiring.

Wayne:

That's right, they weren't hiring at that time, see.
down to Virginia.

So, he did go

IA:

He left the family.

Wayne:

Yeah.
high school,

Oh yeah, he left me here, because I say, I was just out of

IA:

• Wayne:

Wayne:

IB:

Right.

got a job at Arbaugh's making $15 a week.

Oh what did you do at Arbaugh's?

I ~as the helper on the furniture wagon.

IB:

Oh the furniture wagon, oh to deliver.

Wayne:

Yeah.

IB:

Oh okay, okay.

Wayne:

Yeah, I had at first though I had just a Saturday job there working
in that bakery, you know they had a bakery down in the basement.

IB:

Yes they did down in the basement.

Wayne:

• IA:

But anyway, ah, that ah, I was

Yeah, well I was just helping them stock the shelf and if they got to
busy I had to wait on customers see.
making and then finally this fellow that was the helper on the
furniture wagon quit, so ah, DeVries, that was Andy DeVries, he was
He said to me, well he said do you want job, do you
the employer.
want a job, he said well I said well sure, I'll take a steady job.
That would be a steady job see, I mean I was just working Saturdays.
So, he says you have to work on the furniture wagon.
that's alright, so I did.
making $35.

I said okay,
But $15 a week, but the driver was only

He was only making $35, so

Those were good wages for that time though, $35.

• Wayne

6-18-92
Page 14

Wayne:

Well I guess they were.
guess I just took it that that was the average wage.
everyb.ody.

I mean I didn't realize it, I mean ah, I

I mean of

IB:

IA:

Sure.

It wasn't easy to find a job in 1937 either.

Wayne:

No.

IB:

No it sure wasn't.

Wayne:

•

So he said to me he says, he

As I say, okay getting back to my father.
He went down to Virginia
and he looked the job over, it was a shipbuilding, you know what I
mean in the Norfolk Navy Yard and ah, he looked the job over and I
thought gee whiz it is .. nice a good job, so he wrote back, he said
I'm going to take the job, he says I'll start looking for a house and
here I was just out of high school.
said well, you haven't got a very good job there at Arbaugh's there,
and he said ah, he said why don't you come on down and bring mother
down.
to get a job in the Navy Yard here.
to lose.
We got
all the arrangements to move and ah, we .well the first stop we made,
I mean, with my uncles
mean and the goverrunent. So after that, why then we went on down to
Virginia then where dad was.
and so I applied for a job.
was nothing.
helper.

Well, he had a house in the meantime,
Didn't have any experience, I mean there

I mean why don't you come on down here I mean and ah work, try

So dad said well, why don't you go in as a sheet metal

So I did and I got my job in 1937, see.

So, I ah, we made arrangements to move.

So, I said well what have I got

and my uncle told dad to get

Nothing.

I

IA:

Down in Norfolk?

Wayne:

Down in Virginia, so well as you know, the average just pretty

Yeah.
near the war was just breaking, I mean it was getting serious you
know, it was getting a little serious.

IA:

Right.

Wayne:

• IA:

So it wasn't much of a job for me to get a Job at the Navy Yard, see
because they wanted the ships.
mean before the Army
ever contracted ah, trucks for Reo, you know,I
So, well, we worked there oh I worked for the
ever got into trucks.
government and it was a good paying job, but if we'd have stayed here
in Michigan, we'd have been moneywise better off.
working Sunday, they were working Sundays for double time.
government don't believe in paying double time.

They wanted them first before they

Because they were

The

At least they didn't then.

• Wayne

6-18-92
Page 15

Wayne:

No they didn't.

IA:

Now they have to.

Wayne:

Yeah.
half?

So we worked for time and a half.

We worked for.time and a

IA:

Was that job union down there.

Wayne:, Oh no.

IA:

So that's the difference.

Wayne:

No, that's right, there was no union shop down there.

IA:

Right.

Wayne:

So, I come back for a vacation just like, you know, during well let's
say it was in 19 ah,

IA:• Wayne:

IA:

Had the second World War started yet?

Oh yes.

Yeah, yeah, you see, because they you .... to your job.

Oh they needed the work.

Wayne:

Yeah, you see, I mean after ah, about 1940, '41, you were folded see.

IA:

I see.

Wayne:

Even here in Michigan.

IA:

Right.

Wayne:

Yeah, even in Michigan.

We are talking

.

IA:

I'm trying to check to see if this is working at all.

Wayne:

So,

IA:

Wayne:

Is it going?

Can you see the tape rewinding?

They were, well I see you were put into your job.

Yeah.
ah, after a while, we got to urn,well as I say about '42, see I had,
in other words, my war years were from 1940 to '44.

So, ah, but

IA:

IB:

Down in Virginia?

Yeah Virginia.

•

•

Wayne
6-18-92
Page 16

Wayne:

Yeah.

IB:

Okay.

Wayne:

Or three years and then three or four years in there see, but anyway,
anyway I got back up to Michigan for a vacation.
aunts.
I got to find out that gee whiz you guys were working for double time
down here on Sundays you see.

I went to my aunt there and then stayed there with them see.

And I went to my

IA:

At the Reo.

Wayne:

So, I went back and I said to dad, I said boy .... the money

Yeah.
.... And ah, I told him I said they are getting double time for
S~nday up here.
.... to your Job, but ah , my mother ah, she never ... in the state of
Virginia, I mean it is kind of damp.

So actually ah, well, of course, you was actually

IA:

Hot and humid.

•

Wayne:

It is hot and humid, yes.

Especially if you go to Virginia Beach.

IA:

Yeah.

Wayne:

I mean ah, you can get sunburned with just the wind blowing.
anyway,

So

IA:

So she wasn't

Wayne:

Anyway, no, no, so my dad went to the head of the Navy yard there, I
mean a captain, they called them admiral, anyway, we used mother, he
used mother as his excuse to get back to Virginia you see, I mean you
get unfrozen from your job.

IA:

Because her health was perhaps

Wayne:

Yeah, maybe I shouldn't be saying this.

IA:

Oh that's alright.
fire you.

I don't think they are going to come along and

Wayne:

But when it come to me,that

was a horse of another color.

IA:

Oh.

Wayne:

•

Yeah, they said to me, they said well who 0, you are single, what's
the matter with you?
you want to move?
I told him, you
Why do you want to leave here?
know, I said well this is not a long story, but anyway I'll cut it
short.

But anyway they wanted to know why I wanted to go back to

I mean they said you are not married.

Why do

• Wayne

6-18....92
Page 17

They said well, they said ah,

Boy I, I was a little teed that time. You know.
I said would you like a new car.

Oh sure,
I said well so do I. But it seems to me like something has

Virginia, I mean go back to Michigan.
ah, you are single and I said ah, I said now wait a minute.
said well wait a minute, he said you what are you going to do open up
a bar.
And T said
to him, I said
sure.
happened up in Michigan there that is the automobile state, that
something happens that they can't make passenger cars anymore, but
they are making Army trucks.
you intend to get a job at the Reo, or not Reo anyway, but he says on
the military.
then. He then released me you see.

Okay, he said I guess I'll let you go

Oh, he said, he said oh, he said then

So that was in

I says yeah.

They

IA:

... you were going to do military work up there. Yeah.

Wayne:

So that was in 1944, okay, then ah, or 19 see '40, I had 30 years in
okay, what was in 1940 I think it was then, yeah.
That I mean I went
to work at Reo.

IA:

• Wayne:

Wayne:

IA:

In 1940 you started in Reo in 19401

Alright lets see.

I retired in '75,

And you had 40 years in1

No 30, so that would make it '40,

IA:

'45.

Wayne:

'45, yeah.

IB:

The war was almost over.

Wayne:

IA:

IB:

Yeah, it was.
because I went back into making ah, Reo trucks.

Yeah that's right, it was.

Because we went back,

Oh regular trucks.

So you came back to Reo and you, Lansing and you got a job at the
Reo.

Wayne:

Right.

Yeah.

IB:

Didn't have any trouble

Wayne:

So did my father.

IB:

He came back to the Reo.

•

• Wayne

6-18-92
Page 18

Wayne:

Yeah, there is where he got more than, see he had 21 years up to '37.
Then he worked the balance
ah, how was it
there was Reo give us a father and son 70 years of good living.
think that is what was printed one time.

of 40 years I'd say because

I've forgotten

now

I

IB:

You mean the seniority between

the two of you?

Wayne:

Yeah.

And the senior

yeah.

IA:

You had 30, SQ he must have had 40.

Wayne:

Forty, yeah, he did have 40, because you are right.
more than I did, anyway.

I know he had

IA:

His seniority

then carried right on.

They didn't take

Wayne:

• IA:

Wayne:

ah, ah, well the old ah,
Well that's what they did.
that was in doing the employer was he used to work with
the employer
dad, you know what I mean, they worked with dad, I mean and they ah,
so they did let my father pick up the 21 years and go on.

I mean because

Great.

Gee I think that is wonderful .

Yeah it was.
ah ah ah I jumped form a mechanic
That is what they used to call your ah, they called you a mechanic
that you mean you was a regular sheet metal

And me I was just ah, ah, well you see well I did make
to a mechanic.

... sheet metal worker.

I mean from a helper

IA:

Is that what you were when you started in Reo in again in 1945, a
sheet metal worker?

Wayne:

Yeah, well he got, dad he sayah,
put in a good word for me.
shop.

you better try and get in to ah,

He says put it in for the sheet metal

IB:

Okay, and that's where you were in sheet metal?

Wayne:

That's where I went, I first had a job, yeah.

It is ah,

IA:

What did you do there?

I made ah, well at first, ah, well see we had pieces of metal just
Alright
like this one and we had a template we put over top of it.
maybe it has some holes in it.
punch them holes.
else was going to drill them holes, drill them holes out, see.

What they were going to do later on was somebody

And ah, you were suppose to prick

You marked where they had to be.

Wayne:

• IA:

• Wayne

6-18-92
Page 19

Wayne:

I had to mark where they, that's what they call prick punching, yeah.

IA:

Okay.

Wayne:

Yeah, I had to prick punch this template from this template see.
Well, then

IB:

This was for the trucks?

Wayne:

Yes, that's right.
still making military trucks too. Yeah.
when did they start making ah the regular commercial truck?

Then they were making ah, ah, well they were

But ah, after for, I see

IB:

Probably '46, '47.

Wayne:

That's right, I mean yeah, yeah.

IB:

So they had to finish up their military contracts.

Wayne:

Yeah you are right, they were still, because ah, alright, when I got
to ah, I mean after this here prick punching deal, they broke me in
on what they call a spot welder.

IB:

Spot welder.

Wayne:

Right, yeah.
I mean, and heats your metal and glues it together in other words.

It is a machine that comes down with two copper points,

•

IB:

Oh okay.

Wayne:

That's what it does, yeah.

IB:

That's interesting.

Wayne:

See I mean three different types to make.

I mean well it was quite fun. Well they put me on making
I had three different types,

Yes it is.
fender braces for the commercial truck.
I mean to make.
Well,
that lasted, I don't know how long, but anyway finally they said
well, we are going to ship your job up to Department 28.
another spot welding place, I mean they had just a few there.
had a few spot welders.
option to go with the job or stay where I was.
the job, so I went with it.

So, I got shipped up to 28. Well I had the

Well, I kind of liked

That is is

They

IB:

And you were making pretty good money there of what you were .doing?

• Wayne:

I mean, but we did get within
Huh, Reo never did pay an awful lot.
oh, 30 cents, 40 cents of General Motors anyway, you know, in that
hourly, we can ah work of work see. Ah,

• Wayne

6-18-92
Page 20

IA:

You wouldn't think about going over there though for the better
wages?

Wayne:

Pardon, for the

IA:

You never thought about leaving Reo to go to General Motors to get
the better wages?

Wayne:

No, because they had seniority that was pretty safe.
when it came to a layoff,

see.

That is, if

IA:

You felt more secure at Reo.

Wayne:

Yeah, you are right, yeah you are right, you see, I mean that's the
reason why I never changed, I mean was ah, I had ~ good job and gee
whiz it seemed like you got five years in, six years in, seven years,
pretty you had 10.

IA:

Sure.

• Wayne:

Wayne:

IA:

See. You go over to General Motors I mean you start from the bottom
again.

Right.

So, anyway, anyway, in Department 28 I was still making my

See.
fender braces.
ah,my
don't know whether he is alive or not, I think maybe he is in
Detroit.

And
foreman, old Joe Corey, where he is now days, I don't know.

Ah, then ah, military oil pan job came along.

Anyway, that is water under the bridge.

I

IA:

But it is interesting to know who you worked for and with.

Wayne:

Well, Guy Hack was my very first foreman.

IA:

Guy Hacks?

Wayne:

Yeah.

IB:

Hac

k.

Wayne:

•

Well I think that is the way he pronounced it, yeah.
gone now, I mean he is gone now.
see, and he knew what day, you know, I mean .... we worked together.
I mean we they worked and then ah, Guy Hack became foreman then see.
During the war and then he became foreman.
So, he
knew my father.
there first. At first, you know.
than, they said if he had one arm.

So that's really, it was a big boost to get me in
But, as I said, they were higher

But he was my first foreman, you

He moved up see.

Of course he's

• Wayne

6-18-92
Page 21

IA:

Oh so they really wanted workers.

Wayne:

That's right. Yeah, because it was kind of hard to get workers.
don't know ah, well, let me put it this way, good help.
to get good help, dependable, dependable help.

I
It was hard

IA:What

did your dad do when he came back to Reo the same thing he did

before?

Wayne:

The same thing he worked on that sheet metal layout.

IA:

Sheet metal layout.

Wayne:

Yeah.

He was on the sheet metal layouts.

IA:

Did he ever become foreman?

Wayne:

No.

IA:

He didn't.

• Wayne:

IA:

IB:

No.
accepted the job.

Because ah, see after oh let's see. No he never did and he just
He never wanted the responsibility.

Right.

And he was happy doing what he was doing?

Wayne:

There was ah two many foremans you know, I mean that were made
foremans that were going well, we got his rubber hose through.

IA:

They got fancy, huh?

Wayne:

Well no,

IB:

A little resentment maybe?

Wayne:

Well, no, I wouldn't say resentment, no.
nights or I mean or thought they knew more than ....

But, they were fly by

IB:

Oh I see.

Wayne:

What was required, you know, I mean so well anyway.
said the remark that they got their rubber hose ..... They was
cheap, see.

That's why they

IB:

• IA:

Oh, cheap ....

That's right, that was a discount.

•

Wayne
6-18-92
Page 22

Wayne: Yeah. Yeah.
suits. See.

IA:

Yeah, yeah.

See that was a cheap, that was a cheap place to buy

Wayne:

So. Well alright this off hand job came along. It was to put a
baffle in there to separate it, I don't know, well anyway and they
brought ina new spot water(?) which was called, I mean it was like a
sewing machine, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing

IA:

Oh a new machine.

Wayne:

Bing, bing, ... all you had to do was hold the pedal down.

IB:

Oh and it did a roll.

Wayne:

That's right it went just like a sewing machine.

IB:

I see,

•

Wayne: Well, who was to get that job? They asked me if I wanted it. I

could have turned it down, but I tried it out. And I was kind of
fascinated because you started this way and went on the edge of the
pan across the bottom and up again. See. Going just like a sewing
machine you see.

IB:

Down one side, across the bottom and up the other side.

Wayne: Yeah.

IB:

Ah huh. Making those holes.

Wayne:

I thought it was quite interesting, you know, I mean see the machine,
all you had to do was step the pedal.

IA:

Was it automated? It was a smart machine, right, I mean it was a new
kind of machine.

Wayne: Yeah. No you had to set it.

IA:

You set it yourself.

Wayne:

That's right, you had to set the ... and the .... and the sewing
machine.

IA:

I see.

Wayne:

I mean you could make it slow or you could make it fast or I mean,
ah,

•

•

•

•

Wayne
6-18-92
Page 23

IA:

So you had to learn more about the machine.

Wayne:

That's right, yeah, it was a new machine that they brought in, you
see, it was a new machine they brought in.

IA:

Did they only bring in the one or

Wayne:

Because ah, at that time, you know, they didn't,

That's right.
weren't making so many military, it was a, it was filling up the
order you know, well we may get another order for 50, 100 or 500 you
know, military trucks.

IA:

Right.

Wayne:

So, anyway, after ah, well they wanted to know if I wanted the job.
Well I stayed with the job for oh, I don't know a long time.
it kept me busy.
got, after I got through welding it, and they put it on to a test to
fill it up with ah, air or then they put soap on it on where I welded
it to see if it leaked.

Because I mean that was a job.

It was after they

Because

IA:

Oh.

Wayne:

You see. Yeah, that was something that I had to learn ah, as you
said maybe those were about an eighth of an inch apart.
I had to
learn how not just to put it all in one spot.
through it.

Because you could burn

IA:

Sounds kind of tricky.

Wayne:

Yeah.

IA:

You got to learn the right touch.

Wayne:

Yeah you are right.

Yeah, that was it.

IB:

Did it take long to learn that?

Wayne:

No, because ah, at the time you slowed the thing down, you slowed it
down and so you could get your rhythm.
I mean you could get the how
it was to be run through the machine.

IB:

Ah huh, and all you had to do was speed it up.

Wayne:

Yeah, that's right.
let's say, the faster you could go.

After you got more acquainted with the machine

IB:

IA:

Oh sure.

Did you have a production

•

•

•

Wayne
6-18-92
Page 24

Wayne:

Yes ma 'am. Yes ma'am, yes ma'am you had so many to make in an hour.
That's right.
piece work.

So, ah, let's see when did we, when did we outlaw

IA:

It was in the late '40's.

Wayne:

I was saying, I can't remember when, but I know we it was one of our
contracts, I mean we wanted to outlaw piece work.

IA:

Right, I think it was in the late '40's, sometime right around there.

Wayne:

I think so too, because ah, I don't think ah, White was owner.
don't think White was owner.

I

IB:

Yeah it was still Reo.

Wayne:

It was still Reo under Reo, yeah it was still Reo.

IA:

How did you feel about that? Were you in favor of that change to the
hourly or would you have rather

Wayne:

Oh yes, yes.

IA:

You were in favor of it?

Wayne:

Because, oh yes, everybody was because if we had well the old-time
rater we had he is dead, so he can't (laughter)

IB:

He can't come back and

Wayne:

to me because you know,

No he can't go back on us now
because we had to do everything we had to do to ah, make a decent
rate. Ah, we had to figure, .... ah, .... rate .. if you could.
you could, but you know a lot of times you couldn't because he come
back with a rate that you could stand there eight hours and you still
couldn't make it. I mean you would just be there all eight hours
working all the time. Not saying that you got your 10 minute break
or you had your coffee break or nothing you see. You couldn't make
your rate.

If

IB:

He said it to

Wayne:

Of course your foreman would say well how come you can't make the
rate. You know.

IB:

Maybe we should find somebody who can.

Wayne:

Well, that's right, they say well what can we do, I mean, you

Yeah.
know, we'll get the rate setter back up here again. Well, maybe he'd
give you a break and maybe he wouldn't. Well, the rate setter that

•

•

•

Wayne
6-18-92
Page 25

we had he knew my dad and he knew me then. I mean from my dad, see.

IB:

It kind of helps.

Wayne:

I mean ah, he knew that's why I said we were a family.

Yeah.
Everybody knows everybody see, everybody knows everybody, you see,
and then I say it, even on them picnics we had a good time.
of course, ... Reo, but other than that they ,done it for the workers.
See. They done it for your workers.
calling it a family. Well anyway, getting back to myoId
Well after I had
the thing, and could make the rate,
see I could make the rate then. Somebody had the bright idea, let's
move this job over to the motor plant.
Here we go again. Do you or
do you not

I mean that's why we were

paying job.

I mean,

IA:

Want to go with us.

Wayne:

Because I said, you know, well I kind of like, well they said

Yeah.
alright let's do it this way then. You go over there and ah, you and
the Job and they will give you somebody to break in. Then you can
come back here.
swallowed that. I said okay, that's good. Good governors, I went
over there for three months, four months, five months pretty near a
year.

You can come back to your department.

Okay, I

IA:

No change.

Wayne:

Still no, no, no, ah,

.

IA:

They didn't give you anyone to break in?

Wayne:

No.

IA:

They liked what you were doing, they didn't want to ...

Wayne:

Yeah, you are right, that's what I said, they like what ah, well, I
was responsible, I mean I was dependable, I was yeah. And I didn't
like the lower plant anyway. Because that floor that they had over
there was laid in little like bricks, ahwooden bricks.

IB:

Wooden bricks?

Wayne:

Yeah.
how come they claimed that we contaminated the ground.

And they got, of course, the motor plant was always, that's

IA:

Really? Why is that?

Wayne:

Yeah.
or we had

The motor plant, because we used oil, we had oil on the floor

• way.ne

6-18-92
Page 26

IA:

It soaked down through?

Wayne:

Yeah.

Yeah.

IA:

.Oh ,

Wayne:

So that's why, that's why they said that we, you know, contaminated
the ground over there.

IA:

Oh ... the Reo in that corner.

Wayne:

Where .... is now, yeah.

IB:

That's where the motor plant was.

Wayne:

That's right, when the motor plant was there it runs all the way to
the railroad tracks.
yeah.

It went all the way back to the railroad track,

IA:

• IB:

IB:

Wayne:

Okay, okay.

So you didn't like working there because of that floor.

That's right.

I didn't.

Was it hard to stand on, you mean it was slippery?

Wayne:

Well it wasn't slippery, it wasn't that dangerous.
that dangerous, but you just well yeah you were .... though, I mean
you come home and had shoes on,

I mean it wasn't

IB:

Oh and you are all covered with oil and you track in the house.

Wayne:

(laughter) Well, as I say, pretty near a year went by and ah,

She'd meet me at the door and say hey little boy, take your shoes
off.
oh I went to the foreman and I said hey listen, I think I've been
over here long enough.
anyway and so finally I finally got my break in fellow.
back to 28, well we had ah, yeah, I still got well besides my fender
brakes, I made subparts for the cab, you know, .... but maybe the
vent door they had in the side of the hood.

Of course and ah he finally agreed with me

Well I got

IB:

Oh okay.

And maybe the glove box door, I meant you had different jobs, you
see.

So·it was a variety.

Wayne:

• IB:

•

wayne
6....18-92
Pag.e 27

Wayne:

It a variety, that was the difference between working for Reo and and
General Motors.
numbe.rnine or bolt 99 in hole 99.

General Motors you had, you put a bolt in hole

IA:

IB:

Wayne:

That was it.

And yeu did it forever.

If you done it right forever, right.

Yeah, that's right.
had a variety, a variety of jobs.
your tool, I meanah,
liked you, you know what I mean, because he didn't learn the jobs.
See you may have a template, I mean a jig, we call it a J~g to put
your material in, you see, I mean and you pour in the piece that jig
is suppose to do.

Reo, we
They well, well it kept you in

but it made it nice for well the foreman, if he

IB:

Oh I see.

•

Wayne:

See. We had, it made it nice for the well like me, I mean, when work
got so slack, I mean, it was out of, I had five um, five or six men
under me.
I had to set up their job and get the material in and get
the right Jig and an, they would show you how to run it, see show him
how to run it. Now on the job and then I'd turn them loose.
Well if
they made the mistake it was their fault not mine.
course, iif I didn't explain it right enough, well I mean they they
could blame me.
But ah, anyway, as it got down to this point where
ah, ah, well where I was only one in the department

I mean if I, of

IB:

Who knew what was going on.

Wayne:

Yeah that's right, I mean I knew those jigs from time to time you
see, the foreman didn't, well he relied on me to do it, see.

IA:

Right.

Right.

Wayne:

He'd say well you run 99B3 on that job.
the stock and we got the stock out in the stockroom, I'd have to go
out and see.
stock would be, you know, so I didn't have to run over the whole
floor looking for that.
3 or Bay 4 or

The only thing is that we'd have a record where that

I decided to go to, they said it was in Bay

You know, he's say we got

IB:

That's where it would be.

Wayne:

Yeah, that's where the material to be run see.

IB:

Then you'd get a stock handler to bring up what you neeq.ed.

Wayne:

WeIll

done it myself.

•

Wayne
6-18-92
Page 28

IB:

Oh you did it yourself.

Wayne:

I had to be my own truck driver, own truck driver and and ah, setup
So,
man.

I was termed as a setup.

IB:

Was your father still working there at this time, while you were
going through these changes with the Department 28?

Wayne:

Yeah.

IB:

Department 28 and the motor shop.

Wayne:

Oh yeah.
used to be a fire barn on the corner of Baker and ah, Washington.

Yeah, he got moved around from the, do you remember there

IB:

Washington, yes I do.

Wayne:

That was ah, well they finally tore that down and give it to the Reo.
Well, he worked there for quite awhile, then they moved his
department up to the ah, ah, I was going to say, the press ah,

IB:

Pressroom?

Wayne:

the pressroom, yeah.
think the lawn mower came down in there.

And they made, of course, in the meantime I

See the Lawn mower.

IB:

Dh yes.

Wayne:

See the lawn mower department came down in there. And ah, ..... ah,
ah, you see but that is after the military was really done.
Is when
the lawn mower moved in, I mean they started making lawn mowers.
They started making lawn mowers.
if Sears Roebuck wanted them to make lawn mowers,

They would have had a good market

IA:

Dh they did?

Wayne:

but, Sears Roebuck said we got to put the name Sears on your ...

IB:

Oh.

Wayne:

And Reo said no way buster.

IB:

We are proud of what we do and we

Wayne:

That's right.
remote control lawn mower.

And now I told you before they experimented with a

IB:

Oh they did?

•

•

•

•

•

•

Wayne
6-18-92
Page 29

Wayne:

They had one, they finally the engineers they finally
Yeah.
engineered a remote controlled that you could stand on your steps,
run that lawn mower around the thing you see.

IB:

I'd like that.

Wayne:

But, this here the rug, the rug come in when they started figuring
how much it was going to cost

IB:

Cost to the consumer.

Wayne:

Yeah, they said we can't do it. So, they made about, I don't know
how many they made maybe five, maybe 10.

IB:

Oh so if they are around somewhere they are collectors items then.

Wayne:

I got;my doubts but you are right. Ah,

IB:

But they made power mowers.

Wayne:

Yeah, they made power that's right.

IB:

And push mowers too?

Wayne:

Yeah, because they made the Reo type, remember the old, the Reo type,
yeah, but ah, before they came out with, no they never did make a
rotary.

IB:

Oh they didn't?

Wayne:

I didn't think so, no.

IB:

We've got several lawn mowers out here in the storage, I think, and
we

Wayne:

Because they put the motor on top of that Reo.

IA:

Yes.

Wayne:

And they, I don't know.
mean, I was no where

IA:

Sure, well that's okay.

Because that was not in my department.

I

Wayne:

I was no where ah, the only time I got there was I'd take a walk.
went down there just to see what they were doing, you know.
that line and then the lawn mower.

So,

To see

I

IA:

Did you go through any grievances while you were working at Reo?

•

Wayne
6-18-92
Page 30

Wayne:

~o.

IA:

IThrough the union?

You didn't.

Wayne: INo. No, I didn't.

No, because after we got ... piece work, ah, you

I

I meant you didn't
worked on that, but you had a leg to stand on.
have to really tear into it. You know, I mean as you say make so
many pieces an hour.

IB:

It was ....

Wayne:

Even after we outlawed the piece work, I mean you tried to get a job
timed out, they still wouldn't give you a break.
They'd go, as I
say, I meant whenever they timed a job off you know, they... well
maybe I did overrate that job.
'back to you or when you was running that job, just to see how you
Iwere running it, see. And then he'd say hey, you are doing that
different than the way that it was timed. Well, what are you going
to do when you've tried to beat the time rate setter.

Well they would try to come up and

IA:

Yeah, yeah, and they said you changed the rate

Wayne:

Of course, you would see it, you are trying to get it rated and what,
he might see well you could do away without moving that piece over
here.

IB:

Was.tedmotion.

Wayne:

Yeah, he was smart enough to see that.

See.

IA:

,Ab huh, we talked to a guy who did that, Calvin Chamberlain.'

Wayne:

Well this wasn't the fellow we had.

IA:

Oh okay.

He was one of the time study guys there.

Wayne:

Yeah, well I know, but there wasn't a good word put in for any of
them.

IA:No

I know, people have said.

IB:

IA:

Yeah.

I have heard that.

Wayne: ,And we had .... he rated the job and arc welding.

We had, now you

Arc welding
know the difference between arc welding and ... welding.
'is when you have to put a rod in the (muffled) ... and you run a bead
along this way.

•

•

•

Wayne
6-18-92
Page 31

IB:

Okay.

Wayne:

See you have
ah, see through, you know.

IB:

A visor.

you got to have a helmet with

Wayne:

Yeah, 'cause that was too bright of a light to watch.

IB:

Right, okay.

Wayne:

we had to come
job and he said ah, after the rate setter got

you know how many pieces you got to do an hour.
The rate setter he'd been running this job before they got

Well anyway, we had one of them mark welders
up there
gone he saidah,
told him.
it rate, you see, and he says he says you mean to tell me I got to
put out that many.
hunting.
put a bullet. ..... (laughter)
......................... the one
that said that is still alive. Well, of course, it wasn't no hush
hush, everybody knew it.

He said I'd like to know where you are going.

He says you are crazy.

He says you go deer

He says I'd

I mean

He

IA:

We've heard some stories

Wayne:

Well he said I'd put a bullet past your .'.. (laughter)

IB:

But you said even though sometimes the rate setters weren't
Oh dear.
fair, for your job too, you didn't, you never put a gri~vance through
for the union:

Wayne:

Well no because ah, the time I got, I got a poor paying job that I
didn't even rated, bring that outlawed piece work, I mean they'd
outlawed piece work, but they still wanted to know
you could do an hour.

how many pieces

IB:

Still live production.

Wayne:

That's right.
job, and say hey,

Just so you couldn't come up there and sit down on the

IB:

But you thought production was fair?

Wayne:

Yeah, that's right, yeah.

IB:

.... doing it later.

Wayne:

Yeah, that's what I was doing, yeah.
but still in all, that isn't the way to look at it. How about that
poor fellow that has to take your place, you know, I mean say that
I mean and he runs it, you know,
ah , you have to give up that job.

Because maybe I could make it,

•

•

Wayne
6-18-92
Paqe 32

and he can't do what you do. Now we had some women down in the
that nobody could keep up with.
pressroom that

IA:

Is that right?

Wayne:

They had nimble fingers, they had nimble fingers.
weren't all thumbs.

See. Well, they had one down there

I mean they

IB:

I bet the guy didn't like that.

Wayne:

Yeah, there was one girl down there that and she was really a
humdinger and they didn't see, they didn't want hurt her or get her
on the Job to be rated.

IB:

Oh because then they'd have to do what she could do.

Wayne:

You are right, they didn't like falling into their laps some

Right.
day see, I mean, so but we did have one girl down there, I mean we
didn't have too many girls.
I think there was only about three or
four girls that worked in that press department.
dangerous place.

Because that is a

IB:

IA:

Yeah.

Yeah, it is.

Wayne:

And I ah, that machinery that we had down there, I think it fell off
Noah's Ark.

IB:

Yes, very old machinery.

Wayne:

We did, I mean they were dangerous.
department there, they came down and said why you should put, say you
had a strap ... to your arm, you put the piece underneath there and
maybe something happened that before this arm would drag your arm
back, this strap you would come up with minus the fingers.

Even though they had a safety

IB:

IA:

Oh dear.

And you didn't have guards and things maybe across the

Wayne:

Yeah.

IA:

where your fingers couldn't slide.

Wayne:

As I say, I mean they tried to make them

IB:

As safe as they could.

•

•

•

•

•

Wayne
6-18-92
Page 33

Wayne:

Safe as they could, but there was some machines that you just took a
chance.

IS:

Y~p, yup I understand that.

Wayne:

Stuck your hand under there so, so anyway, well I st;ayed in
department, well wait a minute, 28 I was then transferred again over
to Baker Street what they used to call the old enameling room

IS:

The enameling room?

Wayne:

Yeah, when they had, when they was making passenger cars.

IS:

Okay.

That's where they did the painting.

Wayne:

Well yeah, they done very little ah, dip tank ah, parts, you know, I
mean run through a dip tank.

IB:

AhhUh.

Wayne:

But they did run some of those, I mean for that passenger car, but
ah, I don't know, I mean it just, I don't

IS:

Would that have been for the parts of the passenger or for the body
itself?

Wayne:

The body, no, no.

IB:

This would have been for the parts?

Wayne:

No, they never did, they never did rustproof their bodies to good, I
never thought, but of course, that was a truck.
But I mean, '36 was
the last passenger car that went down the line.

IS:

Right.

Wayne:

And that was too much of a handmade car.

IB:

It cost too much.

Wayne:

It cost too much .. The ah, ah, the machinery to build the thing it
was too old, I mean, they never modernized like General Motors, see.

IB:

Didn't put the money back into the shop.

Wayne:

IB:

•

That's right.
That's why that fell through.

That's how come they didn't make a passenger cars.

Ah huh and people weren't buying cars much in '36, '35, and '36
either.

• Wayne

6-18-92
Page 34

Wayne:

Well my dad had one and I was, I was king of the road to have that
thing.

I mean

IB:

Was that a Reo?

Wayne:

Huh?

IB :

Was that a Reo?

Wayne:

Yes.

IB:

IA:

Ah huh.

Your dad had a Reo.

Wayne:

Yeah.

IA:

Oh great.

IB:

• Wayne:

Wayne:

IB:

What model did he have, do you remember?

Well the ah, it is the one that the starter was on the clutch.

Oh, oh, that's right, push that down.

Yeah, you push the clutch in see, you push the clutch in and then
that was your starter?

IB:

Oh gosh that takes me back.

Wayne:

I
Yeah, me too. Because I mean ah, I was in high school then too.
mean you know, and ah, oh boy if you owned a Reo your dad must have
been worth money.

IB:

That's what your friends thought?

Wayne:

You are right, you are right, you are right. Yeah.

IB:

That and prestige.

Wayne:

Of course, ah, see the Reo and the Buick were two of a kind.
were ah, in other words, ah, ah, if you went down and you didn't work
at the Reo and didn't get any discount, you went down to buy a Flying
Cloud, .... Flying Cloud, they called them Reo Flying Cloud.

They

IB:

• Wayne:

And that was the deluxe car.

Alright.
Well, $1,000 in that time

And they'd say okay, you have ah , Flying Cloud $1,000.

• Wayne

6-18-92
Page 35

IB:

That was a lot of money.

Wayne:

That's when you could buy a Ford for $777.

IB:

Oh.

Wayne:

You remember the signs we used to see up on the highway, $777 the
Chevrolet was $777. The ah, let's see the Ford oh I guess it was the
Ford and Chevrolet. That's right, they were running ah, .. Chrysler
now, I mean

IS:

Dodge, Plymouth?

Wayne:

Ah, I think they had a Dodge, but I don't remember the price of that.
All I remember is the Ford and Chevrolet. They were $777.

IB:

Is that right.

Wayne:

• IB:

Wayne:

Okay. My dad could buy that Flying Cloud with his discount for $777.
So, you see, that's why dad bought the Flying Cloud.

It was a nice employee discount.

Right. And you see when when you see you could buy that for $777
instead of $1,000.

IB:

You bet.

Wayne:

Well,

IB:

Oh so he was driving something that would help me.

Wayne:

That's right.
the one that put 20,000 miles on the car by myself.

I ah, well I ah, to ... truthfully, but I mean I was

(laughter)

IA:

How long did that car stay in the family? A long time?

Wayne:

Yeah, because that kind of a car you could put a plow on the back of
it and put it into low gear and it could plow a field.

IB:

Because they were higher up off the ground for one reason.

Wayne:

No it was just the power.

IB:

Just the power.

Wayne:

• IB:

Just the power.

Would that have been an eight cylinder.

•

Wayne
6....18-92
Page 36

Wayne:

No.

IS:

Six?

Wayne:

I don't

IB:

Probably a' six.

Wayne:

I don't know. You know, wait a minute the Royal was an

Six, yeah.
eight either, I don't think think the Royal. You know.the Reo Royal,
that was way out of class. I mean you had to be a banker or lawyer
or something

IB:

To afford one of those.

Wayne:

Right.

IB:

My dad said that those cars weren't all that safe, the Royals,
because they weren't balanced right or something.
the corner the doors would fly open.

If they go around

Wayne:

Well that's something I didn't know .

IB:

He didn't have one mind you, but that's what the workers thought.

Wayne:

Because I know, I mean if you owned a Reo Royal I mean that was
money, I had forgotten how much they did sell for.

IB:

Well they probably were like a Cadillac is today.

Wayne:

Yeah.
day long just by throwing it into your low gear.

But I mean this Reo Flying Cloud you could plow a field all

IB:

Isn't that amazing. Hum.

Wayne:

So.

IA:

Did you ah , yeah, ...

Wayne:

Well I'm just about the end of my story here, I mean

IB:

Okay, well we got some more questions anyway.

Wayne:

Well anyway because I mean when I went up to the old enameling room,
that's was my last move and ah, I got down to being the last man in
the department.

IB:

Oh you did?

•

•

•

•

•

Wayne
6-18-92
Page 37

Wayne:

Yeah.
went on ah, sales just dropped off, I mean they couldn't, I mean ah

I had five or six men that I was setup man for. But, as time

IB:

Did you retire before the company went under?

Wayne:

Yes.

IB:

You were, it was '77 it was before they closed their doors?

Wayne:

You are right, yeah.

I had ah, one year of the good pension.

IB:

You did?

Wayne:

IB:

IA:

Wayne:

That they guaranteed $550 for now on out, you know, I mean they
guaranteed me that was just the one year.
only one, but I mean everybody that had, because after that the union
said anyone that has got 30 years in better get out.

Of course, I wasn't the

Take it now.

Take it while you can .

Well take it out, yeah, get it now. And, of course, you had to sign
up your wife at the time to, if you wanted her on your pension.
You
see it cost me $13 to put her on. But she got the $550 after they
put me under.

She carried on see.

IB:

She would be your beneficiary.

Wayne:

Yeah, but they had to be decided

Side B

Wayne:

IB:

Yeah, we are going.

Wayne:

Okay.

IB:

Urn, I just wanted to know, you talked about your dad taking you when
you were a kid to the ah, clubhouse and picnics and all the other
activities. Did you continue to do that when you were working there
too with your family after World War II?

Wayne:

No.

IB:

You didn't do that .

Wayne:

That kind of phased out.

Wayne
6-18-92
Page 38

IB:

That worker activity.

Wayne:

Ah that's right, yeah.

When the war came along.

IA:

That kind of changed it.

Wayne:

That changed things, that's right.
mean they didn't have dances or ah, ah, well they had a Reo dance
band I think, I thought you said they had a Reo, just the employees,
you know what I mean formed this orchestra.

I meant even at the clubhouse, I

IA:

I see.

Wayne:

But I think that dropped off.
things, you know, I mean that ah,

I mean the war changed a lot of

IB:

Those people were working three shifts then too, that might

Wayne:

You are right.

IB:

They may not have had time to go.

Wayne:

You are right, ah, ah, your activities were limited, you know.
course, you had better than we did down in Virginia.
there didn't have a part time getting a B card or I mean your B stamp

You fellows

Of

IB:

For gas?

Wayne:

for gas, yeah.
off and find something that has tires ....

Even tighter.

Boy did we get tired trade your car

IA:

Was that B card just for gas or was that could you get tires with
that too?

Wayne:

No you couldn't get tires.
came in.
another thing. You .didn'thave to paint your headlights have black.

I'm talking about Virginia now really. And I'll tell you

That's where a lot of the black market

IA:

Down there?

Wayne:

Yeah.

IB:

Here in Michigan, no I never saw that.

Wayne:

And your taillight, head taillights had to be the rear had to be
half.

IA:

Is that right?

•

•

•

•

Wayne
6-18-92
Page 39

Wayne:

Your traffic lights were crossed like this. I mean just a cross,
that's all you could see.

IA:

Imagine because you

Wayne:

Because, well we were on a seaboard town.

IB:

Yes, where you could be conceivably attacked.

Wayne:

Because we were, that's right.

IB:

And the ships were important war productions.

Wayne:

That's right yeah.

IB:

Cripple a shipyard.

Wayne:

I
Of course, yeah, I mean that my navy yard experience wasn't good.
mean the only thing I didn't enjoy was when we had to make those LST
bolts, you know, they came up to shore and dropped down the ... and
then we all run out, you know what I mean, we had to ah, well let's
see I worked on ah, one, let's see we built ah, six at a time, ah, no
four at a time in a dry dock. You know, 1 mean with the dry dock is,
you mean when you ship in, you let the water go in and you run your
ship in, then you ah, let the water out, but then it holds it, it
holds them up, there is a thing that holds the ship

•

1B:

While you are building it.

Wayne:

Yeah.

Well why you are cleaning the barnacles as they call it.

1B:

1A:

Cleaning the barnacles off your hull.

(laughter)

Ah when you were small, did you remember hearing WREO the Reo radio
station in your home?

Did your dad have a crystal set?

Wayne:

No, we had .....

Wayne:

Yeah.

1A:

I don't know that.

1:8:

A cadillac of radio, back in those days.

Wayne:

Yeah, that's right, I remember we did used to have earphones, I mean
I can remember, yeah, you are right. We lived in Chestnut Street
then. We lived on 711 Chestnut Street.

•

•

•

•

Wayne
6-18-92
Page 40

IB:

On the no~th end?

Wayne: All, no that would have been south.

IB:

Oh it would have been, okay.

Wayne:

Yeah, it would have been south of ah, Michigan Avenue anyway, so

IB:

Okay.

Wayne:

Yeah.
when I went to Kalamazoo.

Because that's where I went to Kalamazoo.

See I mean that's

IB:

And your father was closer to the factory at that end of town?

Wayne:

Ah he was what did they say he walked 2 miles and a half and he
walked it every day, day in and day out, rain or shine.
was wait a minute I'll back up on that.
Hillsdale Street, that was further away yet.
Reo every day.

It is when we lived on

He used to walk to the

I think it

IB:

You were down somewhere near the R. E. Olds house then weren't you?
Where he was on Washington and Main.

Wayne:

Main and Washington and Main yeah.

IB:

Do you remember seeing the house?

Wayne:

Yeah.

Yeah.

IB:

Did you ever see him ah , come out with one of his cars or

Wayne:

No, no wait a minute who are you talking about R. E. Olds?

IB:

R. E. Olds?

Wayne:

R. E. Olds?

No.

IB:

Okay.

Wayne:

No I never even went to that garden that he had, you know, the rose
garden or something.

IB:

Ah huh.

Wayne:

No, I don't know, we were I don't what you are saying, we were at the
time we kind of didn't care or what, I don't know.

IB:

But, of course, he wasn't there at the shop in the later years.

•

Wayne
6-18-92
Page 41

Wayne:

No he wasn't, no.

IB:

IA:

IB:

He

He was away a lot.

Yean, he was away a lot, but he had even totally written the business
off as far as his personal involvement in it years before that.

Wayne:

So,

IB:

He was quite a figure around town, so I thought ....

Wayne:

But while I was working in the 42 or 28 or 42, Department 42 you see
'Whitebought it because he wanted that golden engine that we planted,
that we made for the Army.
That was, everybody said that was a motor
out of this world.

Everybody

IA:

Trucks?

Wayne:

For the trucks and we put it in our two and a half ton trucks, see.
Well when 'White tried to ah, get, he tried to buy it, so I mean they
bought it really, I don't know who sold this. But 8.cnyway,'White
wanted a two and a half tone truck, because all he had was the bigger
job, you know.

IA:

Dh really?

Wayne:

He wanted a two and a
So, ah, now wait a minute maybe- I'm getting ahead of

To make the five ton, you know, the big White.
half ton truck.
my story. We bought out Diamond Reo in Chicago first I think before
'White,because 'Whitedidn't have that two and a half ton truck, but
ah, Diamond, the Diamond T the Diamond T ah, ah, didn't have a two
and a half ton truck either. Reo was about the only one that had the
Reo, the two and a half ton truck.
That was a lighter truck.

The light truck they called it.

IB:

A lighter truck.

Wayne:

So I think Diamond T was bought out before White bought us.

Yeah.
Because he wanted

going .....

IB:

Dh the Golden Commet.

Wayne:

Yeah.
see the Reo, the White and Diamond

So, he wanted to put all them two and a half ton trucks you

IB:

Diamond T.

Wayne:

T, but then when they changed that name to Diamond Reo.

•

•

•

Wayne
6-18-92
'. Page 42

IB:

Okay.

Wayne:

When Diamond T came up here, when they moved the whole factory up
here, they so 'cause it was funny to see White, Reo, and maybe a
Diamond, well White and Reo and Diamond T truck,going down the road
(laughter)
trying to race each other.

IB:

You probably never knew what your heading in your checks were going
to say.

Wayne:

No.

IA:

Um, when you were working at Reo, did the union, UAW have besides
just the basic stuff they did for the bargaining and the organizing
for the contracts, did they have other activities that you
participated in at all?

Wayne:

No, none that I can recall.

IB:

Down at the union hall or

Wayne:

No, because the things run fairly smooth during the war,

Well no.
see. Ah , let me put it this way. When you say
put it this way.
us. When the war was on, let me put it this way, because Reo got so
much for so many pieces see. So, they wanted production, I'm talking
about rate setters, I mean they wanted production,

weren't quite so tough on

well, let me

Maybe ah ,

IB:

Right.

Wayne:

so they might have been more lenient during the war as I say. Now
getting back to just say the union, they didn't have as much trouble
with management see.

IB:

Right, right, everybody was working together in the war.

Wayne:

Right, yeah.

IB:

I~:

IB:

Yeah.

How about after the war.

Right that's what I was going to ask. How about after the war
though?

Wayne:

Well we had, we had .. piece work, I mean well I mean we were certain
... pieces you had to run, but if you didn't make it, why you can say
well what are you going to do about it .

•

•

• Wayne

6-18-92
Page 43

IB:

For some of the work that I've done though, I've read that the union
used to sponsor trips down to the stadiums in Detroit to see the
baseball games and they'd have sometimes they'd have movies down at
the labor temple and different kinds of activities for the workers,
not just

Wayne:

You wouldn't know that would be before the war though would you?

IB:

Some of that was before the war.

Wayne:

Well that's what I'1n,I'm trying to say, I mean I

IB:

You didn't know anything about those kinds of things.
Alright.

Okay.

Wayne:

But during the war years things seemed to be running pretty smooth,
you know, I mean there was no, you didn't have to have a steward
saying well what can we do about this job.
I can and my foreman is jumping down my back.

I mean I'm doing the best

IB:

Did you have three-year contracts?

•

Wayne:

Pardon?

IB:

Did you have three-year contracts after the war with the union?

Wayne:

Yeah.
contracts, that's right.

Well we had ah , yeah that's right we did have three-year

IB:

And they were r'enego t Laced every three years?

Wayne:

No, no, no, no they weren't negotiated until they run out.

IB:

Right.

But then they were new negotiations.

Wayne:

Well, yes, that's right.
maybe they wanted t()do something different.

They would bring up something different or

IB:

Were they on par with the levels at the Big Three, GM, Chrysler,
Ford?

Wayne:

We tried, we tried 1:0, we tried, yeah.
well we couldn't come up with General Motors.
say we, the difference in the wages we might got within 30 cents of
them.

We couldn't come up with ah,
I mean we can't, as I

IB:

• Wayne:

Okay .

See.

•

Wayne
6-18-92
Page 44

IB:

Okay.

Wayne:

There was a, we were the underdog.

IB:

Of coarse, you weren't producing as much and making as much as the
Big Three.

Wayne:

That's right. Yeah, you are right there.

IB:

'Whatabout, I've heard off and on through the years that the union
has kind of told the workers who to vote for during a presidential
election, I'm wondering

Wayne:

No wait a minute you

IB:

Well no, no, um., I'm just wondering

Wayne:

Let me put it this way.

That's the truth. That's the truth.

I ...

IA:

IB:

But you could have done whatever you wanted.

Right, wouldn't you

But they tried to persuade you .

Wayne:

Oh that's true, very true.

IB:

Oh sure I didn't mean they forced you.

Wayne:

Well, listen, alright I am the chairperson of Local 650.

IB:

Okay.

Wayne:

Alright.
I go to these meetings. Alright what do they talk about?
Alright they say let's do something for John Miller, let's get John
Miller this and we can do this I mean or we are going to ask for
this. What about poor Diamond Reo? Well that's too bad buster.
haven't got any bargaining power.

You

IB:

Was it the small guys.

Wayne:

No, because we went broke.

IB:

IA:

Oh.

Oh.

Wayne:

We had no bargaining power.
well what can you do for us?

I can't say to the head of our ah, ...
They come around and said nothing.

IB:

Because you don't count much anymore.

•

•

•

•

•

Wayne
6-18-92
Page 45

Wayne:

You got to go through legislation.

If you want anything.

IB:

Okay, so the fact that Reo was quiet may have been because they
didn't have a whole lot of power in the union as a small company with
not very much

Wayne:

No they could have been.

I say they could have been operating today.

IB:

Yeah .

./

Wayne:

If we hadn't have sold to Cappaert.

IB:

Okay.

Wayne:

That one man ..... why?
making any money here, or there, ah, whose fault is it? Mine.
mine.
directors, he hasn't got any stockholders, he hasn't got ... to say
hey, I'm not making any money.

If he comes in here and he said well I'm not
It is
He hasn't got board of

Alright, let's look at it another way.

What's the matter with yeah.

IA:

He is off in his own little world .

Wayne:

Alright, and the

Then he got to working, he said well, golly he says I

That's right, that's why I'm saying if we had to ...

That's right.
see he bought us for I think it was $16 million.
time he bought us he ah, he was in Service was making the money hand
over fist, parts, service parts, anything, service, truck servicing,
I mean all of that. Alright, he got back his $16 million, he got
back that all.
can make a lot more by Just saying hey let's just shut the doors.
Now whether that was his philosophy I don't know.
don't know.
millionaire on paper only.
to give him $8 million.
can come up with this certain amount of money, we'll give it to you.
You say well
But he couldn't.
where is he now, how is he $8 million I mean how come he is a
millionaire then.
shares, but that's all.

Because you know he asked the goverrunent
Anyway they said now if you

Now whether he thought, in other words, he was a multi-

He had holding share, holding shares, holding

He couldn't come up with that money.

I think it was.

That's mine.

I

IB:

Yeah and he was taking from one to pay the next.

Wayne:

Right.

IB:

So on down the line.

Wayne:

Right.
today if it hadn't been for him .

So that is why I'm saying that Reo could have been operating

IB:

Yeah.

Wayne
6-18-92
Page 46

Wayne:

today right today he still owes that ah, owes our retirement fund

$2 million.

IB:

Oh he does, he'll probably never pay it back.

Wayne:

Well he is dead now.

IB:

lA:

He is dead, huh.

Gappaert is dead?

Wayne:

Yeah, yeah.

IA:

That must have been fairly recent then?

Wayne:

Well I've forgotten when but it hasn't been too long.

IA:

Within this last year?

Wayne:

Oh, no, I'll go back further than that, I mean

IA:

I would think that with his estate then the heirs wouldn't they also
fall

Wayne:

Well I don't know, we are still in bankruptcy court, we are still in
bankruptcy court.

IA:

Still fighting now .

Wayne:

Yeah.
10 cents on the dollar.

And what I'm going to get, I'll bet you I'll be lucky if I get

IA:

Because the lawyers will have to take their cut for that?

Wayne:

Well, with one, we always get a letter every once and a while from
the bankruptcy court saying that well this lawyer so and so, this'
lawyer so and so they got to have $2 million, they got to have some

IB:

In order to continue to play.

Wayne:

Yeah, sure, they are just depleting the whole money I should say.

IB:

So there is a fund that is being drawn for for this suit?

Wayne:

Well, if what's left yeah.

It is what's left.

IB:

I see. What did you think Mr. Nunnheimer what do you think is the
biggest change you saw in all the years that you worked at Reo?

•

•

•

•

•

•

Wayne
6-18-92
Page 47

Wayne:

Well the biggest change I would say was that it made it nicer for the
workers.

IB:

Over time?

Wayne:

Ye.ab,by having a union.

IB:

Okay, and that

Wayne:

They had a leg to stand on. You had a leg to stand on. And before
the union come in here, before the union came in here you had to
bargain with ah, the owners.

IB:

Right.

Or... management.

Wayne:

Right.
it makes it too easy.

No, I meant you see when I made, ah, I shouldn't say it, but

IB:

Oh, you think it does?

Wayne:

Well it made. it too easy.
boy or some worker in there that don't want to work, he don't want to
work,

I tell you why. Well you might get some

IB:

Yeah, or not work as hard.

Wayne:

That's right. Yeah. Alright, if they jumped on him, the management
I say, I'll go to my union, get my union UP! here.

IB:

Yeah, did that happen more and more over time do you think? That
kind of attitude?

Wayne:

Ah, no of course not during the war, but

IB:

Later on?

Wayne:

after the war, yeah, after the war when you are saying on your own.
I may still say it the workers still come
You are on your own now.
They had a leg to stand on.
I mean yeah.
out ahead.
can always go to the union and the union will say well wait a minute
in the contract you said you would do this and you would do this.
See, the union had a contract was their right to say them see.

I mean, you

IB:

That's right.

Wayne:

They say you are violating the contract.

IB:

Did you notice any difference in safety for the worker after the
union came in? Did they try to make sure that some of the, I know
you were talking about the machines being obsolete and whatnot, but

• Wayne

6-18-92
Page 48

do you think that they helped at all for personal safety for the
workers being injured on the job because of their machines or

Wayne:

Well they tried.
them safe I mean but it was just what are you trying to do, trying to
make a new out of an old.

I can't say that they didn't.

They tried to make

IB:

Maybe they are the ones that put the safety straps on and that kind
of stuff.

Wayne:

Yeah, before the union came in, yes.
familiar with that because ah ah, I wasn't around dangerous
machinery.

I'm not too well I'm not to

IB:

Ahhuh.

Wayne:

When ah, well presses I know they were really dangerous.
had to watch, watch them like a hawk.
knew when what time that dog instead of a catch in it, it would catch

Because they were you never

I mean you

IB:

Dh.

•

Wayne:

it may go around you see.

IB:

And it keep on going around.

Wayne:

IB:

see. Yeah.

We didn't have the safest machinery.

What about sick days before the union and after?
have before the union were you allowed if you 'were sick did you have
so many sick days a month or before the union came in and then after
it came in maybe you were allowed to have sick days?

Were you allowed to

Wayne:

I don't know.
sick you'd be crawling in here.

They always told me that they saLd I bet if you was

IB:

Dh gosh.

(laughter)

Wayne:

That was just me personally.
never took off.
30 years rather, I'll bet you could count on hour one hand

That was me personally.

I'll bet you you could count :inall my 40 years, ah

Because I

IB:

How many days you were

Wayne:

• IB:

Wayne:

How many days that I wasn't there. Dr even being tardy.
time I was tardy was when the snow got up this deep

The only

And you couldn't get there.

Yeah.

You remember those snows that we had?

•

•

•

Wayne
6-18-92
Page 49

IB:

Yeah, we used to have some snows didn't we?

Wayne:

That was the only time that I was late. I never, I never·refused
time to go in, I would go in. It may be noon.

IB:

But you'd get there.

Wayne: Yeah. They said I'll be you'd come in if you had to crawl.

(laughter)

IA:

Mr. Nunnheimer, we know um, you are married, right, because we met
your wife at the union hall

Wayne: Ah huh.

IA:

IB:

IA:

Christmastime ,

Yes.

Um, did you have any children? Do you have any children?

Wayne: Ah huh .

IA:

One.

Wayne:

One boy.

IA:

Just like in your family, you were the only boy.

Wayne:

That's right.

IA:

That's right.

Wayne:

But I don't think we spoiled him.

IB:

Spoiled him. And when you were working at the Reo, did you live in
Lansing?

Wayne: Yeah.

IB:

Most of the time in the area too?

Wayne: All the time.

IB:

Okay. And did you

Wayne:

Oh wait a minute I'll take that back. Yeah, w,ellwait a minute I
said from 1940 to '44

IB:

You were in Virginia.

•

Wayne
6-18-92
Page 50

Wayne: Yeah.

I was in Virginia.

I was in Virginia.

Not married.

IB:

But when you were working here
married,

in Lansing at

rhe Reo, once you were

Wayne: Qh yeah.

IB:

did you own your own home?

Wayne: Oh yeah.

IB:

Yeah?

Wayne: We do now, ah huh.

IB:

Did you live

out on the south side?

Wayne: Yeah.

•

IA:

IB:

IA:

IB:

Live with your
Shirley?

family?

Okay, I'm set,

anything

else

for you,

No I

think

I'm finished.

Did we keep you long enough?

Did we keep you too long,'

thank you very much Mr. Nunnheimer.

•