•

•

•

Eileen Nortman
1-28-93
Page 1

IA:

IA:

IB:

This is January 28th, we will be interviewing Eileen Nortman,
E i 1 e e n
t man.
interview will be at 4:00.

We are in Lisa Fine's office at MSU,

Nor

Um, we usually start the interviews just by asking some background
information about the people and where they came from and that
kind of thing.

Actually, we have a lot of that already, because we've already
interviewed Doris.
were you born in the Lansing area?

But um, we can get it again I suppose.

Um,

Nortman:

Williamston.

IB:

In Williamston.

And did you go to school in Williamston as well?

Nortman:

Yes.

IB:

High school.

Nortman:

Grade school, high school, yes, all one school .

IB:

Oh.

Okay.

Um, and your parents were they from the Michigan area?

Nortman:

Yes.

IB:

And they were born in the United States.

Nortman:

In Michigan.

IB:

Okay.
relatives is from Germany, right?

And the same with your grandparents?

I think one of your

Nortman:

Yeah.

My grandfather on my dad's side.

IB:

Okay, great.
experiences at the Reo .... all about, so why don't you start by
telling us um, when you first started working at the Reo.

Um, what we are mostly interested obviously is your

Nortman:

Gees that must have been the whole sum of 17 years old.

IS:

Okay.
were still

Was it right out of high school when you went there or you

Nortman:

Well I was 16 I turned 17 in October and then I started working.

IA:

Hum, and you were still in school when you were working?

Nortman:

No, I graduated when I was 16.

Eileen Nortman
1-28-93
Page 2

IB:

Oh you graduated.

Nortman:

Then ah, all you had to do was fill out an application
and take a physical

and when you were in the shop.

and go down

IA:

Where did you take your physical at

Nortman:

No they had a doctor right there.

IA:

Right there at the factory.

Nortman:

Right there at the factory.

It was on Baker Street.

IA:

Dh the first

Nortman:

First aid.

IB:

Now they needed to go and they were quick about hiring, you said

hiring people because of the war.

Nortman:

Right.

IB:

With World War II.
this way but what year was that that you started?

And we would be able to figure out your age

Nortman:

Gees I graduated

in 1940, '42.

IB:

So '43?

1943?

Nortman:

That's a long time.

IB:

IA:

IB:

Yeah it is.

It doesn't seem like

And why did you, did you pick the Reo or did it matter
the Reo?

that it was

Nortman:

Dh I was working at a dimes tore and I was only getting
hour.

20 cents an

IB:

A dimestore

in Williamston?

Nortman:

In Williamston.

IB:

Ah huh.

Behind the counter?

Nortman:

Well it was everything.
just a little bit of everything.
to a shop, you get a dollar more

I was stocking shelves and (loud banging)
said you should go

And everybody

(can't hear)

•

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• Eileen Nortman

1-28-93
Page 3

IB:

And it didn't seem um, like you were stepping down to wdrk in a
factory from working in a store?

I

I

Nortman:

Not really.

IB:

It didn't bother you.

Nortman:

No.

IB:

Nortman:

... going to be permanent.

IB:

Okay.

That made a difference or just for the war.

Nortman:

(can't hear)

IB:

Ah huh.
money?

Did you do it for patriotic reasons too besides just

Nortman:

• IA:

Nortman:

Well I had 1, 2, 3, I had three or four brothers

.

So in a way this was a chance for you to help the war effort a
little bit.

A little bit.

I was doing .... grinder ... trucks

IA:

You were doing what kind of

Nortman:

Line.
they had splined to get your gears in and that's what I did.

Yeah, big old Reo trucks had where they shift the gears,

IA:

Hum, s p 1 i n e?

Nortman:

Spline, spline.

IA:

IB:

Okay.

Now you said you were making 20 cents

Nortman:

An hour.

IB:

an hour at the dimestore, and you were making $1.20 at Reo an
hour.

That's not bad for anybody.

• IA:

Nortman:

Did you work, they had what two shifts going then

.

Ah, I started at 7:00 in the morning, we was out of there probably
about 4:00 in the afternoon.

Eileen Nortman
1-28-93
Page 4

IA:

You didn't have to work the swing shift?

Nortman:

No.

I don't think many women do that, you know.

IB:

Working
might be dangerous?

at night, because

it is dangerous,

or they thought it

Nortman:

Well, you know, people didn't have cars, you walked.

IA:

You walked

from

Nortman:

No we pooled it.

IA:

Oh car pool.

Nortman:

See they had gas rationing

on.

IA:

Nortman:

Oh that's right, you got four gallons a week or something.

So you got these little tickets and that's all the gas you got, so
you pooled your ... with somebody else or you borrowed
brother's

I didn't have a car.

car or something.

your

IB:

But you pooled with other people who were coming into town?

Nortman:

Right.

IB:

Um, did you have to get trained?

Nortman:

IB:

Ah, I had an older man train me and it didn't take probably
an hour.

maybe

And the person who had done the job before you was a man?
usually had done it before.

A man

Nortman:

It was sort of heavy.

IB:

IA:

Heavy work.

Was it?

Nortman:

Those lines were heavy.

IA:

It must have been kind of tough to get used to

Nortman:

Well I

.

IA:

Did you have to wear any protective

gear?

Nortman:

Ah we had urn, goggles and

sort of a net.

•

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•

• Eileen Nortman

1-28-93
Page 5

IA:

That was the net on the back part to keep your hair up.

Nortman:

My hair was

.

IB:

So you didn't think it was hard work.
labor, but it wasn't hard to learn it or anything like that?

I mean it was hard physical

Nortman:

No, it wasn't anybody could learn it.

IB:

Anybody could do it.

Nortman:

And as far as the physical, they wanted to make sure that you were
able to do the work.

And you stood on your feet all the time.

IB:

Ah huh,all

day.

Nortman:

You didn't get any break except to go to the bathroom.

IA:

So they had bathrooms for women?

Nortman:

• IA:

Nortman:

Oh you sort of watched the men go in and wait until they got mit.

Oh, because it had been a men's department so there wasn't any
bathrooms for women.

We used to go with two girls you see.

IB:

You were going to go in together.

Yeah.

Nortman:

Yeah.

IA:

IB:

Well that's interesting.

Did it have showers for you?

Nortman:

No.

IB:

They didn't have showers either.

So you came home pretty grimy.

Nortman:

Yeah, you were dirty.

IB:

IA:

Nortman:

•

Yeah.

That is silly, that shops, you know that

It was like an oily smell.
steel things on it, so if you dropped anything you won't hurt
yourself.

You had to wear shoes that had ah,

Eileen Nortman
1-28-93
Page 6

IA:

Oh steel toes.
Did a lot of the shoe stores sell them or

Did you ah, where did you get steel-toed

shoes?

Nortman:

No, the shop sold them, but you had to buy them.

IA:

You had to buy them.

Were they very expensive?

Nortman:

I don't remember.

IA:

I wonder what they did about, there were coupons for shoes too
during the war, I wonder did you have to give one of your coupons
when you bought

those shoes to work in?

Nortman:

Ah, I can't remember.
recommended

shoes.

Anyway,

if you was working

there, they

IA:

IB:

Yeah.
you were at Reo for the war?

How long did you work, was this the only job you had when

Yeah.

But it is slime grinding.

Nortman:

It is just like when you shift your car, well if you look at big
old Reo truck you can see those ... when you shift.

IB:

Okay.

Nortman:

IA:

I mean if you ever seen a big old truck
make sure they were just precise

.

and you had to

Nortman:

(can't hear)

just so

IA:

And you were grinding off rough edges or something
would open the gears.

so the gear, it

Nortman:

Right, it was really delicate work.

IA:

And you had to hold it up when you did this or

Nortman:

No you put it on a machine.

IA:

I see.

Nortman:

And you had two little things that ah, that held on and then you
There was a little wheel
just

IA:

Like a little

.

Nortman:

A little

.

•

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• Eileen Nortman

1-28-93
Page 7

IA:

Oh okay.

Nortman:

And you just right back down .... and you thought it was just
right, you get measuring.

IA:

How long would it take you to do each one truck say?

Nortman:

Ah, you mean as far as the slime, it took us probably 45 minutes
for one slime.

IB:

To work on one, that's a long time.

Nortman:

We were not on piecework.

IA:

Hum, hourly rate.

Nortman:

But a lot of people there were on piecework.

IB:

• Nortman:

Nortman:

IB:

IB:

IA:

Ah huh, were there a lot of other women in the same department
with you?

Ah, I'd say there is probably

.

Was your sister with you there?

Oh she was over in the other, ...

Oh she was in a different place.

So when you hired in they split you up?

Nortman:

Yeah, well she was on some kind of a grinder, but ah, I can't
remember what kind she was on.

She ..... (can't hear)

IB:

Right, we are going to call her though.
there, the rest of the war?

How long did you work

Nortman:

No.

I got sick and bought me a car and went to California.

IB:

Oh and how long did it take you to get sick of it?

Nortman:

Ah, I think I was there probably two years.

IB:

Two years, oh that's not, that's a long time.

IA:• Nortman:

IA:

So the war was, was over?

It was getting pretty over, right down.

It was in the summer maybe that you left?

Eileen Nortman
1-28-93
Page 8

Nortman:

Ab, we left in the fall.

lA:

Oh ah huh.

Nortman:

And then came back and I joined the Navy.

IB:

Oh joined the Navy oh.
Reo?

Were you single the whole time you were at

Nortman:

You bet.

IB:

Yeah.

Um, did you join the union?

Nortman:

We had to.

IB:

You had to.

It was a closed shop.

Nortman:

It was a closed shop.

IB:

Yeah.

So they checked the dues out of your wages?

Nortman:

Right.

IA:

That's what I was just going to ask you.

Nortman:

Yeah, just like you do here.

IA:

IB:

Just like they do now.

And did they have any problems while you were there?

Nortman:

No.

IB:

Everything

was pretty smooth.

Nortman:

Yeah, and people wanted to work and help the cause and I didn't
see any problem that you were aware of when
things going on, but I mean ....

I saw a lot of

IB:

And that's 'what we want to know about.
you see going on?

What kinds of things did

Nortman:

Oh these men that married play around with these other girls.

IB:

IA:

Oh.

Oh.

Nortman:

You've

seen

.

•

•

•

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Eileen Nortman
1-28-93
Page 9

IA:

IS:

Oh sure nothing changes does it?

So having women in the shop was a little disruptive?

Nortman:

For some.

IS:

For some of them, that's true, we shouldn't generalize.

Nortman:

I'd say probably 10 or 15 percent.

IS:

Ah huh.

Nortman:

You always had, you still got to work.

IS:

Was it mutual or were they bothering these girls?

Nortman:

Oh I think it was mutual.

IS:

Oh they did.

Nortman:

I'm sure they did.
know .

Secause there wasn't very many men around you

IA:

Yeah, most of the men had gone away to the war.

Nortman:

IS:

IA:

Nortman:

Ah huh.
the same old thing.
that

.

It was interesting.

But, you know, after a while it is

And I was happy that I wasn't in the shop all

Oh you mean the kind of workplace that it was.

It is monotonous is that what you are saying .

................ I've had it and my sister and I decided we've had
So
it
I bought an old used car and went to California.

I said I'm going to California.

(laughter)

IA:

You were lucky to find a used car to buy.

Nortman:

And well, we had a couple flats going out.

IA:

Did you?

Tires were hard to come by too.

Nortman:

Oh yeah, they were.

IS:

IA:

•

And the roads weren't so great back then.
highway system .

You know interstate

You must have gone out 66.

Route 66.

Eileen Nortman
1-28-93
Page 10

Nortman:

It took us about a week to get out there.
There was another girl went with us.

But we did

.

IB:

Oh you kind of shared expenses

.

Nortman:

Yeah, nothing was really expensive.
get stuff.

It is just that we couldn't

IA:

IB:

IA:

Yeah, yeah.

Now there was a lot of propaganda around then '44 for people to
not do, just the thing that you were doing.

But don't quit, don't give up now, we need your production more
than ever.
But obviously it didn't have an impact that much on
you.

Nortman:

Well it did, but you know, it is just like you sit at your desk so
long, you got to get up and move.

IA:

Yeah.

Nortman:

IA:

Nortman:

And and you are on your feet and you are getting, you are not
getting any younger, I'm not going to work there forever.
And ah,
I said I'm going to take a short vacation ..... My sister took a
short vacation and got married.

But no pressure was put on you by your supervisors or fellow
workers not to quit?

Ah, this older guy thought I should stay because my brother was
overseas and a couple other brothers on the ships.

IB:

.......... I was just talking about.

Nortman:

But you know kids

.

IB:

Sure you were probably what 19 or

Nortman:

Oh just

IB:

Nobody

.

Nortman:

You know, really, I was looking for
working, had a whole bunch of contracts
hear)
do was go roller skating.

Once you got home the only thing you could

as much .

and sure you was

he said (can't

IA:

Roller skating was big then.
.... on the job or I've heard that machines were old and

Do you remember any ..... the women

•

•

•

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Eileen Nortman
1-28-93
Page 11

Nortman:

Yeah, they were old.

IA:

Nortman:

And, of course, during the war they couldn't replace the machine
or

Well, um, in right there where I was I never saw, but I heard
certain sections they used to cut off fingers on presses.
got to watch them
cut your fingernails real close on those grinding ....

(can't hear)

but I mean you can

And you

IA:

Dh gosh.

Nortman:

But I didn't have any problem.

IA:

Nortman:

IB:

IA:

•

Do you remember if there were any women that were stewards or
committeemen, committeepersons I guess we'd say now?
that were really active in the union?

Any women

We haven't really heard that, but I thought

We haven't the thought just occurred to me shortly before she came
in and
know.

Usually you think of the men being in the union you

But just like here.

Nortman:
. . ... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

You got to

.

Nortman:

You teach?

IA:

Yeah, I teach here.
lot of stuff going on there?

Urn,what about the clubhouse?

Was there a

Nortman:

Yeah, it was like a bingo and they had dances.

IA:

Ah huh, so that was something other than roller skating.

Nortman:

But I didn't ...

IA:

You didn't

.

Nortman:

Well once and a while, one you got home why you didn't want to
come back in.

•

IA:

IB:

Yeah.

You didn't have gas either and tires and stuff to

I have to think in those terms, I don't think in those terms like
that.

Eileen Nortman
1-28-93
Page 12

IA:

Yell different times.

Nortman:

But there were a lot of times if we wanted to do anything, we had
a friend who lived not too far from there, we'd go and take a bath
That was a long
or something and change your clothes and go out.
time ago.

IA:

Yeah.
end up there because they were hiring?

Did you pick Reo for any particular reason or did you just

Nortman:

You know how we got started

why don't you go

.

IB:

IA:

Right.
town too?

Right.

But why Reo, I mean there was other factories in

and that's what made you think of Reo or

Nortman:

No they were hiring, but they was just

IA:

Oh ah huh.

Nortman:

You know people say go to the 01ds but I don't at the time I
wasn't paying any attention to Olds.

Ye

.

IA:

Oh so you thought more in terms of Reo.

It was a local.

Nortman:

Yell Reo was making trucks and Oldsmobile was doing something else
but I don't recall.

IA:

IB:

IA:

They were making ammunition, big shells and

For the wars.

Ah huh.

Nortman:

Are you from Lansing?

IA:

IB:

IA:

Yes.

Shirley's mother, no I'm not, Shirley's mother worked at Reo.

And so did my dad.

Nortman:

Is that right?

IA:

Yes, my mother worked out in the receiving department and then
after the war the lawn mower department.

Nortman:

They did make lawn mowers, didn't they?

•

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•

• Eileen Nortman

1-28-93
Page 13

IA:

Yup.

They were making them actually years before

.

Nortman:

That was Lansing

.

IA:

In fact, I've seen the Silver Lead their new

Um, no, I haven't.
big warehouse there where the Reo used to be.
strangest feeling even now to go by where the Reo stood and see
that.
Big vacant lot.
everything is gone and

You know the clubhouse is gone and

But it is the

No r traan ;

They should have held on to that clubhouse.

IA:

IB:

Yeah.

I wish they had
never even saw it.

Nortman:

Where are you from?

I would have like to have seen it, I

IB:

• Nortman:

IB:

I'm from New York.

Are you?

Yeah, and I didn't come here until I started working here in '85,
so it was a long time.

Nortman:

Oh it surely.

IA:

Yeah '81 didn't we, November of'81.

Um,

Nortman:

I enjoyed working there.

IA:

You did?

The girls were friendly and

Nortman:

Yeah, I worked with an older group.

They were most guys

IA:

But you worked mostly with older men.

And they treated you okay?

Nortman:

Oh yeah.

I was just one of the kids, you know.

IA:

One of the kids.

Nortman:

They helped you out.

They did.

They were ....

IA:

Well that's good.

IB:•

We've heard that from some of the men we've interviewed too when
we've asked them, you know, like they worked before the war and
after the war, how did you feel about it when the women came in.
And they said we helped them out, and you know, we thought of them

•

Eileen Nortman
1-28-93
Page 14

as daughters
women's

or sisters or so we had to check it out from the
(laughter)

perspective,

There were a lot of older women too that went to work in the
shops.

Yeah, but they weren't
doing, probably

doing something physical
sitting and sorting or doing something

like you were

like that.

IA:

IB:

Nortman:

There was a lot of, there was quite a few women.

IA:

Nortman:

Ah huh, so even though it was monotonous
there was a good atmosphere.

you think that it had a,

Oh yeah, I'm sure there was.
here.

.

.

I am that is just part of history

IA:

Did you get a pay raise while you were there or did you

Nortman:

I'm sure we all did.
earning

$1.35 an hour.

I can't remember exactly.

I think I was

IA:

I don't know why this never occurred to me before, but I wonder
they had any kind of bonuses when you went to contracts
or any
kind of thing that filtered down or did they ever come around to
and say we made our quota and I want to remember,
your department
they used to have flags that they put on top of the buildings
they made their quota or something.
them a big flag and E for efficiency

The government
or something.

used to give

when

if

•

Nortman:

Yeah, they did.

IA:

Did they ever come around to your department,
the workers

or

anybody

congratulate

Nortman:

Not

IA:

Nortman:

IA:

Okay, I just.
I remember
there would be one run up the pole there or over at Olds too.

those green flags flying at the top of, every so often

All of a sudden that just flashed into my mind that

That was an old building.
started.

Because

that building was

Those buildings

were old when I

years.

Where did you park?
get to your department?

Did you have to park and walk quite a ways to

Nortman:

We parked right across the street where there is a Dairy Queen
now, Dairy Queen, I don't know if it is still there.

•

• Eileen Nortman

1-28-93
Page 15

IA:

Yeah, I think so.

On Washington?

Nortman:

On ... Street now, yeah around Washington.

IA:

So, the part of the building you worked in was also facing
Washington or down Baker?

Nortman:

Down straight in front of Washington.

IA:

Oh.

Nortman:

down.

IB:

Downstairs.

Nortman:

IB:

Nortman:

• IB:

Nortman:

Was this your only experience working in a factory?
life?

In your work

Ah huh .

After that you never went back to working in a factory?

No.

IB:

Even though the money was

Nortman:

A lot of women are still in it for the money.

IB:

Yeah.

But you didn't want to go back.

Nortman:

Un huh.

No.

IA:

Nortman:

I think she was off to adventure.
20 or whatever.

And why not when you are 19 or

Yeah do what you want to do, you are only around once and I'm
doing what I want to do now.

IA:

Ah huh.

Nortman:

I'm busy but

IA:

Are you a hockey fan?

Nortman:

• IA:

Oh yeah .

My husband has a funny saying he went to a fight and a hockey game
broke out.

Do you have tickets?

Eileen Nortman
1-28-93
Page 16

IB:

Are you kidding,

you'd probably

kill for tickets.

Nortman:

They had tickets

selling yesterday.

IA:

They did?

Nortman:

Bowling

Green

IA:

IB:

Oh.

Oh so they didn't have enough of their own people.

Nortman:

So we

(can't hear)

.

I

Well they exactly

IB:

They are not scalping

tickets you are saying.

Nortman:

No.
work.

(mass talking)

No, it is a lot of fun, it is a lot of hard

But,

IB:

Did you do mostly when you went back to work,
urn, office kind of work?

did .you do mostly

Nortman:

Not really,

I worked at Mahogany

Farms.

IB:

IA:

Nortman:

Oh.

What is that?

It is a beef cattle farm that is out here in Williamston,
Chemical

..... They had all these white

fences,

it was between

Omega

52.

IA:

Oh I know what you are talking

about, yeah.

Nortman:

Those white fences.

IA:

Ah huh.

Nortman:

I worked
guys.

out there.
No I didn't.

I kept their records
(laughter)

and took care of the

IB:

Well did you .... so it was kind of like an office.

Nortman:

But we was outdoors,

I mean I didn't

go out and check.

IA:

Oh oh.

Nortman:

With these guys are breeding
records but you had to keep em

cattle,

I'd check

It was
Yeah.

•

•

•

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•

•

Eileen Nortman
1-28-93
Page 17

IA:

What did you do in the Navy, any

Nortman:

Well I went to school in the Navy.
I started at Great Lakes and
went to Charleston, South Carolina and I started going to school.
That's right you know

.

IA:

So you got your skills from the Navy?
grind ah, .... the rest of your life.

Because you didn't want to

Nortman:

Oh those ... grinders
around though.

IA:

Oh.

I think the probably still got some

Nortman:

Because you know, those big trucks you could see it

.

IA:

You know there are still those old Reo trucks on the road.

Nortman:

I seem them.

The Army has a few of them.

IA:

Yeah they do.
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania .

And they are still building Reo trucks in

Nortman:

Dh are they?

IA:

The Reo Giants they call are called, they only build one model and
they are almost hand built practically.
....... um, because we've interviewed several people who have said
that when the Reo finally went broke, there were people and they
They wanted those trucks, the
were just crying for those trucks.
phone would ring right off the secretary's desks, can we get one,
can we get apart,
want whatever we can get.

can we .... can we get anything, you know, we

Jack Donovan .. factory

Nortman:

My sister, Doris, worked there just about up until the time when
they closed the door.

IA:

IS:

IA:

Yeah.

In the office, she was upstairs in the office.

She wasn't working there when you were though, she came later,
right?

Nortman:

She got married, she was down in Mississippi with her husband.

IA:

Dh he was in the Service down there?

Nortman:

And I don't know what she did.

Eileen Nortman
1-28-93
Page 18

IB:

IA:

Oh my goodness.

Long ago and a different world.

Nortman:

Well, you know, when they get married they go their way.
different .... (can't hear) .... Even my twin sister, she

It was a

IA:

.. not my favorite ... St. Pete's and Miami of course,

Nortman:

Too crowded.

IA:

Do you remember, I know it was a long time ago, but do you
remember who your supervisor was then in that department?
department was it? Was it called

What

Nortman:

(can't hear) .....

IA:

Just call it the grinding department.

Nortman:

And I don't remember who

my brother-in-law

.

IA:

Oh he did.

Did he

Nortman:

He is still alive too

me and my older sister.

IA:

Oh who is your older sister, I thought Doris

Nortman:

Virginia.

IA:

IB:

You have another one?

This must be a big family because you said you had several
brothers.

Nortman:

Yeah, I had six brothers and four sisters.

IB:

See I'm an only child so

.... A brother-in-law, Cord Lasher.

Nortman:

And he lives over behind Greenlawn and right across the street
from Ingham Medical.

IB:

Oh and your sister, your older sisters name was Virginia Lasher?

Nortman:

Ah huh, their last name was Lasher.

IB:

Las

c her.

Nortman:

IA:

I wonder if he

•

•

•

• Eileen Nortman

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Nortman:

He's an older man.

He worked there for a long time.

IB:

IA:

IB:

IA:

IB:

At the Reo?

I wonder if he would consent to an interview sometime.

Yeah, yeah, you might write him a letter first.

Yeah, we'd just, yeah.
that we knew he worked there and

We won't bring you into

~ just say

Did he work there first, is that, do you think that might have
been the reason why you

Nortman:

He wasn't married to my sister then.

IB:

Oh he wasn't, okay.

Nortman:

See that's where I knew him from.

He was .....

IB:• IA:

Nortman:

IA:

Oh ,

....

up with your sister.

Did she work there too?

No.

No.

Nortman:

She didn't.

IA:

He didn't meet her through, did he meet her through you?

Nortman:

No.

IA:

Oh it is a small town, isn't it.

Nortman:

You know it isn't a very large town.

IA:

No.

Nortman:

Ah, I don't think the telephone book

.

IA:

Nortman:

Or else they changed it.

IB:•

Okay, but we would write them a letter first, we wouldn't just
call them out of the blue.

So,

Eileen Nortman
1-28-93
Page 20

Nortman:

Their son's name is Meridith.
Meridith

do you know him?

And he ..... address.
He works over at MSU .....

John

IB:

Oh really, oh.

Nortman:

IB:

IA:

Nortman:

IA:

You just got your hockey tickets, right?

Don't lose them

(laughter)

I have story-telling

tickets if anybody wants those.

Nortman:

Her last telephone number was 323-0060.

IB:

Okay, you said they were on Greenlawn.

Nortman:

Greenlawn.

IB:

Okay, you don't know the number?

Nortman:

No, but ah, you could call her son and

IB:

Okay, alright.

We'll find her.

Nortman:

IB:

IA:

IB:

IA:

tickets here see.
I got basketball
my brother
to a game, he's never been in
because he doesn't want to pay those big old parking.
like 10 bucks to park close.

Not parking tickets.

My son needs this
They charge

I take

Yeah.

Do they really?

Yeah, my husband has the basketball
.
here and walks.

tickets and he usually parks

.

I didn't realize it was that expensive.

Nortman:

Well see, he don't get the money.

IA:

Now you said you were on hourly, but a lot of the other workers
there were on piece.

Nortman:

Right, piece.

IA:

Was it because, was it the women that were on

•

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•

• Eileen Nortman

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Nortman:

Some of the women were on piece.

IA:

Oh they were too.
some were on piece?

Do you remember why some were on hourly and

Nortman:

Mine was so precise they didn't want you to rush.
be just right.

Yeah it had to

IA:

Okay.

So it depended on the job.

Nortman:

Right.

IA:

Okay, that's interesting.
Because we have talked to a lot of
people, they changed almost everybody to hourly after the war.
You probably didn't know that because you weren't there, but
before that I was just curious.
I didn't realize there were hourly workers too.
interesting to know that.
precise kind of work.

So people who had very like you did,

They were paid by the hour.

I thought everybody was on piece,

So this is

IB:• Nortman:

IB:

Were there any attempts made to speed you up at all?
work faster?

Make the

You couldn't really speed it.

You couldn't, okay.

So you just worked at your own.

Nortman:

I wasn't the only .... grinder, there was sort of like a circle.

IB:

IA:

Okay.

A whole bunch of you working together.

Did the truck came along on a line in front of you?

Nortman:

Yeah, we didn't have a line.

IA:

IB:

Oh.

You just got these things to work on one after the othe.r.

Nortman:

And then they
anything.

IA:

Oh, 1 see and then

wood box or something so it wouldn't hit

Nortman:

They didn't assemble it right there.

IA:•

No, then it was taken to the assembly line.
spent an hour and a half on the line, would somebody come over to
you and say wait a minute, are we having troubles.

But let's say you

Eileen Nortman
1-28-93
Page 22

Nortman:

Then they'd help you.

IA:

They would figure out what wa$ wrong.

Nortman:

Or it could be in the machine.

IB:

So they had a basic idea of how long you should

Nortman:

Yeah, you had what they called a basic setup.

IB;

Okay.

Nortman:

If you had problems, you know,

IB:

So that's how they kept you at a certain rate.

Nortman:

You averaged out about the same.

IA:

Did you ever have some that just wasn't going to work or wasn't
smoothing

out or whatever

Nortman:

Yeah we scratched

them out.

IB:

IA:

Someone scrapped it, okay.

If you had too much scrapped,
going on?

did they come over and see what was

Nortman:

No we just

we just scrapped it all the way

.

IA:

No I know, but if you were having troubles or something.

Nortman:

It could have been out of somebody else's work too.

IA:

If the pieces were coming to
I guess that's what I was thinking.
you they hadn't been done correctly before they got to you, I was
wondering

if there was a lot of those or just

Nortman:

They had inspection
you more or less was the last one.

regular inspection

The last one

IA:

Oh okay.

Nortman:

And they had them precise
you were going to .... That's about all I did.
boring.

Because

it had to work when
It got very

IB:

But you said the money was good.

•

•

•

• Eileen Nortman

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Nortman:

Oh the money was good.
we did, I don't remember.

I don't think we paid any income tax.

If

IB:

Ah huh, so what you made you took home.
the way you wanted to?

And could you spend it

Nortman:

Oh I paid for my room and board and

IB:

You paid some room and board to your parents.

Nortman:

My grandmother.

IB:

To your grandmother.

Nortman:

Then we got a little house by ourselves.

IB:

Who Ls we?

Nortman:

My two sisters and I.

IB:• Nortman:

IA:

Oh you and your sisters.

I always

We grew up and

.

You kind of wanted your own place after living in a family of ...

Nortman:

It worked out better that way too.

IA:

Ah huh.

Nortman:

You were earning your own dollars.
go allover

the place, you know.

But we didn't have wheels to

IA:

Nortman:

IA:

IB:

IA:

Lansing, was there a bus line that went from Williamston to
Lansing?

Oh that's right, I heard Doris saying something about her not

Yeah, I think I probably

... safer then.

Nortman:

Oh yeah.
getting hurt .

We didn't have any problem.

We never thought of anybody

IB:

I have to tell you something that one of the people we interviewed
said.
who I'm talking about.

He said, I'm not going to mention his name, but you know

All the trouble in the world today is

•

Eileen Nortman
1-28-93
Page 24

because
(laughter)

they let women into the factories

and all that stuff.

Nortman:

Is that right?

IB:

That's what he said.
Because they got to earn their own money and that's the source of
all the problems

They should never let them in there.

that we are having

today.

Nortman:

Poor me.

(laughter)

IA:

Well there is probably
(laughter)

somebody
Let the women vote.

that still says the vote did it.

Nortman:

Oh I can believe

it.

IB:

IA:

IB:

IA:

Yeah, he said you know, he didn't have any, he didn't have any
problems with this, that they should get the same pay and you
know, he

But he just thought that women starting

to earn their own money

was the problem,

independent.

Then the family started, maybe

Nortman:

Yeah.

IB:

IA:

And so that's another reason why we are interested
perspective
actually
These are the kinds of men they are working with.

in the shops and the kind of atmosphere

on that, you know, the women themselves

in the woman's

that were
they had there.

Did you have a decent place to eat.
able to go to the restroom until

You talked about not being

Nortman:

Oh they just had like a couple tables ah,

IA:

Right near where you were working?

Nortman:

No sort of like in a cage.

IA:

IB:

Oh, in a. fenced in place, area.

So it would be safe.

Nortman:

Yeah, safe so nothing was flying around.

IB:

Flying around.

•

•

•

•

•

•

Eileen Nortman
1-28-93
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IA:

Oh oh, that's good. Was it very far from your work area?

Nortman:

Not really.

IA:

Oh.

Nortman:

You could see where

IA:

Nortman:

You could see your .... Did you get what 20 minutes or half hour
or

Probably 20 to half hour.
was eat lunch and go back to work.

You couldn't, I mean all you had to do

IB:

Did you mix at all with the people.

.... people that you ...

Nortman:

They were pretty cordial.

IB:

Really?

Nortman:

Ah huh.

IA:

I remember too that people were buying war bonds during the war.
Did you buy bonds working there at Reo, did they take it out of
your check.

I mean you had to consent to it.

Nortman:

I don't remember that.
I think the Reo did it.

I know I bought bonds, but I don't know.

IA:

Oh but the Reo did it, because my mother bought bonds.

Nortman:

She ·did.

IA:

IB:

Nortman:

And I think, I remember them having big bond drives.. Somebody
important would come to town and come down to the Reo and talk to
the workers and I don't know that they talked to all of them, but
Did you think you you said that it was okay because you knew you
only had to do it temporary, you know, the routine of it, did you
think you were in a place a strange place for a woman to be when
you were there?
really

............................... this is not

IB:

Yeah.

Did you feel that way there?

Nortman:

The group I worked with were pretty nice guys.
treated me like a kid

And they were very helpful, so

I mean they

IB:

So you didn't think about it that way

Eileen Nortman
1-28-93
Page 26

Nortman:

No.

IB:

necessarily.

Nortman:

But they hated to see me go.

IA:

IB:

Did they?

Oh that's nice.

Nortman:

I think most of them. .

.

IB:

IA:

Nortman:

IA:

Because they were older guys, right.
people who did work during the war, but they were probably
like you when they were there.
or twenties,

Well we've interviewed

You know they were in their teens

some

young

so

... I wish somehow it were possible
there earlier on but ah,

to talk to someone who worked

that's the .....

Can you think of any of the other, you mentioned
leads me to another question,
that you worked with that you still see that you think might be
willing

that, so this
can you think of any other women

to talk to us or

Nortman:

I didn't know, once I lived here, I don't think I ever went back.

IA:

IB:

Nortman:

(can't hear)

IB:

Okay.

There is a lot of, you know, we
organizations
there.

they still get together,

a lot of people

through

a lot of people

that worked

I know Doris does.
didn't

I worked with a bunch of

And I went golfing with them

I

Did you think the work was, you said again it was temporary,
that kind of puts it in a different
is dirty stuff, you know.

light.

But did you think this

so

Nortman:

Oh yeah.

I thought it was dirty.

IB:

Dirty, and that may be a reason why you didn't want to spend ....

•

•

•

• Eileen Nortman

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Page 27

Nortman:

Well this one guy that had been there for 14 or 15 years, he was
the same

ah ,

.

IB:

Was there any satisfaction that you could get from looking at oh,
the lines that you had grind that day and
element of that to it at all?

Was there an

Nortman:

I took a ride in one of them.

IB:

You did?

Nortman:

Which is interesting.

IB:

Yeah.

So you can see what you did, how what it contributed.

Nortman:

I wasn't the only one

IB:

Ah huh.

Nortman:

• IA:

Nortman:

That's interesting and then you get a feel for the finished
product.

Right.

IA:

This is what I helped to do.

Nortman:

.. good idea

.

IB:

But that can only go so far.
years.

Right, they may not work for 14

Nortman:

No.

IB:

For you at least.

Nortman:

I'm not one for sitting around on the job.

IB:

Yeah.

Nortman:

Well, that's about all I can remember.

IB:

Nortman:

• IB:

Yeah.
it had any affects on the rest of the jobs that you did later or

You described it as kind of like an episode.

Do you think

I knew I never wanted to go back there .

You didn't want to go back to a factory.
pay was good?

Okay.

Even though the

Eileen Nortman
1-28-93
Page 28

Nortman:

Even though the pay was good.

IB:

IA:

IB:

Okay.

You said there was more important things than the money.

Oh okay.

Yeah that's it.

Nortman:

Well I'm sorry it took me so long to get together with you guys.

•

•

•