Leslie Mitchell talks about his experience with REO Motor Car Company and Diamond REO Trucks, Inc. 5/5/2004 Shirley Bradley: This is Shirley Bradley and I’m at the home of Les Mitchell and this is May 5 and we’re going to just talk about real memories to the questions and answers. And I think we’ll start, we’ll just start with your personal history just to get things going. [0:21] Uh, where were you born and raised and where did you go to school? Leslie Mitchell: Right across from REO on South Washington. My father worked for REO when he was about 20 years old. So he didn’t have a car at that time so him and my mother got an apartment or a room, I can’t, I don’t remember, of course, but, um, so all he had to do was walk across the street. Uh, that’s how fortunate you are to get to the plant. Uh, I can’t remember the name of the street offhand but it was just a little, short street. It was right on the corner. Years later when I was working at REO, they tore the houses down on the corner and put a gas station so I never got a picture of it. Shirley Bradley: Oh. Leslie Mitchell: And I was born there in 1925, August 5, and I was the only child. So the first years I remember, I lived at 1707 South Cedar Street, which is not far from REO either… Shirley Bradley: Mm-hm. Leslie Mitchell: …‘cause at that time my dad had a car, so. I remember that place. Even when I was 3, 4 years old I have memories of that place. And just about everybody in the neighborhood worked for REO at that time, including the landlord who had 2 homes next [inaudible 1:40] 2 homes. They’re still there. Uh, so, uh, I stayed in Lansing all my life and I have lived in more than 3 different places, so this is the second home I’ve been in. I built the last one too. And so when I retired I decided to build a home in the country. So that’s when I was, where I was born and when I was born and… Shirley Bradley: [2:11] And you went to Walter French or…? Leslie Mitchell: I went to Walter French. The first school I went to was Christiancy and I don’t remember why, why they transferred me but they transferred me to Walter French which at that time had, uh, grades 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 I think. But later they shut that down and only had the junior high school but I only went maybe a year there and my dad moved on to Maplewood… Shirley Bradley: Oh. Leslie Mitchell: …which is not far from the school or REO either and then I went to Maplewood School until I got old enough to go into junior high school again so, so walking distance from REO and, and the schools. And I stayed on Maplewood there just a couple blocks away until I was 18 and went to the service and I came back and stayed there for a few months until I got my own place, so. Next question? [chuckle] Shirley Bradley: [chuckle] Well, let’s see. [3:16] You were in WWII and you were in the Signal Corps and where did they send you? Leslie Mitchell: I was in more than 1 branch of the army. Shirley Bradley: Hm. Leslie Mitchell: I took basic training, uh, in California in San Diego in an antiaircraft. I wanted to get in the Signal Corps but at that time they just sent me where they wanted me to go but I did stay in communications and they sent me to or had me take a school there in how to operate military radio equipment because I had been a ham radio operator when I was, you know, about 12 years old. I learned the Morse code so I was way ahead of them in that… Shirley Bradley: Hm. Leslie Mitchell: …and that’s why they sent me to radio school so what I had to do was learn the equipment. Uh, after that, after basic training, they shipped me to Wilmington, North Carolina to communications chief school. And after I completed the school, I went down, they shipped me down to Texas. Well, the antiaircraft outfit down there was – I was still in communications but the antiaircraft a lot of them were disabled and wouldn’t be in combat. It was that type of thing and, of course, I was getting tired of sitting there so I offered to go into the infantry to get out of there. Well, I wasn’t in the infantry more than a month I think and they shipped us over to East Europe [chuckle] so I completed my time over there. And after I got out, uh, they called me back in the Korean War 5 years later. Shirley Bradley: Mm-hm. Leslie Mitchell: At that time, they had an opportunity if you were in combat during WWII [inaudible 5:05] or greater, which I was a Master Sergeant, uh, you could apply for commission, which I did. Of course, what came along with it was the education which was 27 months which was a 4-year course, you know, a regular college course in 27 months which meant the only day you got off in the year was Christmas. Shirley Bradley: Oh. Leslie Mitchell: So you went to school 7 days a week so that’s how I got my commission. I did not serve in combat. They couldn’t make me go in combat but I did serve during the war and so that was the extent of my war duties. Shirley Bradley: When you were in WWII and they sent you to England and then across to Europe… Leslie Mitchell: Based – they were supposed to go to England. We were in a convoy, I think there was something like 120 ships or something, and right in the middle of the ocean they had the Battle of the Bulge. Shirley Bradley: Okay. Leslie Mitchell: Some of the ships were redirected directly into France so we were, we were changed. It was the middle of winter and we were going the southern route to get to England and they changed course and went the northern route which, of course, was stormy and, and icebergs and all kinds of stuff. And the ships were very difficult to live on because they listed so much… Shirley Bradley: Hm. Leslie Mitchell: …during the winter storms. So we actually landed at Le Havre, France, and they – with landing craft to get in because the war had been going on there and so that was, that was the extent. We never got to England. We got right into there and right into combat from that point on. Shirley Bradley: Hm. [6:52] And across Europe you went, huh? Leslie Mitchell: Yup. Really fast after we got going with Patton, you know. Shirley Bradley: Oh yeah. Leslie Mitchell: We were [inaudible 6:58] Patton. Shirley Bradley: You were? [7:00] Was that the 4th Infantry? Leslie Mitchell: No. That’s the Armored… Shirley Bradley: Armored, yeah. Leslie Mitchell: Third Army or something like that. Shirley Bradley: Yeah. I guess it would be. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: Well, you got stories upon stories. [7:11] Um, when you were a child and you [clock chime] lived near REO, you said, you told me your father worked for REO. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. My father came to Lansing, I’m not sure what year, but he was quite young and he worked for Howard [Silver 7:24] delivering cars… Shirley Bradley: Mm-hm. Leslie Mitchell: …into Illinois, Wisconsin, and places like that for a while. Shirley Bradley: [7:31] That probably would have been in the 20s you think maybe? Leslie Mitchell: Well, no. He was 20 when he went to work for REO. Shirley Bradley: I see. Leslie Mitchell: So I think he was 18 or something like that when he worked for Howard [Silver 7:38]. Shirley Bradley: Okay. Leslie Mitchell: And, uh, that’s – he always told me that [Silver 7:44] treated him better than any of the other drivers because he only paid their way down and wouldn’t pay their way back when they delivered a car… Shirley Bradley: Oh. Leslie Mitchell: …and he paid my dad’s expenses both ways. [chuckle] Shirley Bradley: My goodness. Leslie Mitchell: Uh, but he – I don’t know if he told me or somebody told me that Howard [Silver 8:03] invented the car trailer… Shirley Bradley: Mm-hm. Leslie Mitchell: …was the first one to come up with a car trailer. But then he was 20, he went to work for REO. And, of course, that’s when I, I wasn’t born until he was 25 and from that point on after I got to be about 5 years old, I remember things about REO. And, uh, uh, I remember that the old truck plant was down on the corner of Mount Hope and Washington. Shirley Bradley: The old truck line. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: Mm-hm. Leslie Mitchell: And that was while they were still making cars in the other plant. I do remember getting out of school, grade school, and running down to meet my dad when he’d get out of work at the old plant. Shirley Bradley: Aw. Leslie Mitchell: The truck plant door was on the south end of that building and, uh, faced Cedar Street and there was a ramp coming up, so all the trucks and stuff on the assembly line they had to drive up that ramp to get down on South Washington. Shirley Bradley: Mm-hm. Leslie Mitchell: Did I say faced Cedar? I meant South Washington. Shirley Bradley: I, I know you meant South Washington. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. South Washington. Shirley Bradley: Yeah. Leslie Mitchell: And so I used to go down there with him or go down there and wait for him to get out of work and walk home with him. Shirley Bradley: Come out that back door. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah, so. Shirley Bradley: That was a special time for you and your dad. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: [9:23] What did he do? What kind of jobs did he have besides, after he went from Howard [Silver 9:27]? Leslie Mitchell: When he first went to work for REO, he was a test driver so they took the vehicles as they come off the assembly line and tested them to see if everything was working okay. If it wasn’t, they wrote it up on an order form to have it repaired. And, uh, then I can’t remember what he did next there but he, he was, he worked in, uh, as far as I can remember, he worked in, on the repair floor… Shirley Bradley: Hm. Leslie Mitchell: …doing repairs to the truck vehicles, uh, that when they found a deficiency in it and came off the assembly line, he, he, he did repairs of them. And then from there, he went into being a liaison engineer between engineering and, and, uh, the manufacturing plant, assembly line and whatever, you know. They would take any problems they had, he would have to resolve and anything that didn’t fit or something like that, that was up to him to make a sketch or something to get it fixed so it would work, so. And – but he did – I know he worked on the repair floor for quite a number of years. Shirley Bradley: Hm. Leslie Mitchell: And then he got the – he was also a foreman over final assembly at one time, I forgot about that, for several years. Shirley Bradley: [10:48] And this was when they were – this was in the car plant or the auto plant where they were…? Leslie Mitchell: The car plant. Shirley Bradley: When they were still making… Leslie Mitchel: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: …the cars. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: Mm-hm. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. What he did mostly as far as I know down at the other plant was a test driver. Shirley Bradley: Test driver at the… Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: …truck plant. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: Uh-huh. Leslie Mitchell: And he worked there until, I can’t remember, was it 1937 they went broke? Shirley Bradley: Yeah. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. And then for a year he went over and worked for Fisher Body and he always complained about what hard work it was… Shirley Bradley: Oh really. [chuckle] Leslie Mitchell: …on the assembly line over there. But after a year, REO consolidated and opened up the trucking again. No more cars but trucks and that’s when they moved it down I guess to the, the original plant… Shirley Bradley: Mm-hm. Leslie Mitchell: …‘cause they had a lot more room and stuff down there. Shirley Bradley: I imagine. Leslie Mitchell: REO owned property on Mount Hope and Baker at one time clear down to Grand River, from Mount Hope clear down to Grand River. Shirley Bradley: [11:43] Is that right? Leslie Mitchell: They owned all that property, yeah. Shirley Bradley: I didn’t know that. Leslie Mitchell: They had a tremendous amount of property. Shirley Bradley: Hm. Leslie Mitchell: And they used to take vehicles out and test them, like, that’s like even military trucks they used to take’m out, run over trees and, you know, and they had these, during WWII they had these [inaudible 11:58]. I had seen some pictures. Maybe I had them and they’re gone but, but they put these breathers on the trucks so they can drive underwater and then a diver would drive the truck under water and… Shirley Bradley: Oh. Leslie Mitchell: ...cross the river and stuff like that. But they owned all that property down there. That’s just like, uh, the only part of REO remaining is the one on Cedar Street directly across from the old plant. Uh, they, they’ve got several stores in there now. I don’t know, Nuts and Bolts or… Shirley Bradley: Quality Dairy and… Leslie Mitchell: ..somebody was in there at one time. Uh, and its where they made the car bodies and there was a tramway over Cedar Street. Shirley Bradley: Oh, in the air. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: I remember that when I was a kid. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. And that’s where the bodies, they made the bodies on the east side of Cedar and then they’d use that tramway to get’m over to the assembly plant on the other side. Shirley Bradley: On the other side. Leslie Mitchell: Mm-hm. Shirley Bradley: Where it’s now Quality Dairy and something else. Leslie Mitchell: I don’t know what’s in there now. Shirley Bradley: Yeah. Leslie Mitchell: There was a place called Nuts and Bolts and… Shirley Bradley: Oh yes. Leslie Mitchell: …they bought up… Shirley Bradley: Yeah. And it was… Leslie Mitchell: …all the nuts and bolts from REO when they went broke and sold them there for many, many years. Shirley Bradley: And then during the war it was Nash-Kelvinator in that area. Leslie Mitchell: Yes, and I worked there. Shirley Bradley: You did? Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. For about [inaudible 13:15]. Shirley Bradley: [13:15] Why did your dad leave Howard [Silver 13:16] and go to work at REO do you think? Leslie Mitchell: More money. Shirley Bradley: More money. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: To get paid better. Leslie Mitchell: Mm-hm. More money, yeah. Shirley Bradley: More hours I imagine maybe. Leslie Mitchell: And he had a certificate. I don’t know what happened to it. I think my ex-wife got it but it said that he had worked there 43 years, uh, longer than any other employee. Shirley Bradley: That’s a long time. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. He was there longer than any other employee with REO. Shirley Bradley: So he must have been an excellent worker and he must have had pretty good health if he could stay… Leslie Mitchell: Well, pretty good pay. Shirley Bradley: Yeah. [chuckle] So your family was able to get along fine because he had a good job. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah, yeah. Shirley Bradley: And you didn’t – he didn’t have that far to go from work… Leslie Mitchell: No. Shirley Bradley: …which is probably kind of nice. Leslie Mitchell: Even during, uh, the Depression, my father worked. Shirley Bradley: [14:00] He did? Leslie Mitchell: And that was one of – what happened to REO, they weren’t making any money but they were, they were building cars. They had nobody to buy them but they built them anyway and, uh… Shirley Bradley: [Inaudible 14:10]. Leslie Mitchell: …to give people work, so my dad always worked anywhere from 2 to 3 days a week during the Depression. Shirley Bradley: Oh. Leslie Mitchell: And, uh… Shirley Bradley: That’s interesting. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. And, uh, he did okay. A lot of people didn’t have jobs, etc., but REO kept it open. REO used to take cars, I don’t know if you ever heard this or not, but they’d take, you buy a car and 2 or 3 years or 4 years or something like that after you bought the car, they would take that car back and refurbish it for you. Shirley Bradley: Oh really? Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Whatever it took. Shirley Bradley: Oh, how marvelous. Leslie Mitchell: Yup. They refurbished it for you. Not free, I mean, but they… Shirley Bradley: I wish they did that now. [chuckle] Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. But it was the idea they’d put’m back on the assembly line I guess and run’m down there and replace the parts that had to be replaced and repainted or restriped. Shirley Bradley: And there was no charge for that? Leslie Mitchell: Yes. They would charge for it but… Shirley Bradley: But still they did it. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. They just kept your car and when they got done with it, it’s like new again. Shirley Bradley: Oh, how wonderful! Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: ‘Cause some of us get pretty attached to our cars… Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: …and we keep’m. I had to sell my, uh, my Olds Cutlass Ciera. It had been my father’s and he bought it new and then he passed away and I luckily got the car ‘cause I loved the Cieras and, of course, they’re gone now, but, uh… Leslie Mitchell: Mm-hm. Shirley Bradley: And gee, I hated it but it was 6 years old and it was time and it was still in great shape with low mileage and I thought I’m going to have to, you know. Leslie Mitchell: Mm-hm. Shirley Bradley: But I got this Chevy now but I really wish I had the other one. [chuckle] But wouldn’t that be nice. Leslie Mitchell: I don’t like Chevys. I had a couple of’m. Shirley Bradley: Well, our trucks have always been Chevys. Um, let’s see, so, uh, your dad retired… Leslie Mitchell: When he was 63 years old. Shirley Bradley: When he was 63. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Kind of a little bit early and, uh, uh, he had a, he had bought a place during the war up at Crystal Lake, a small, real small cottage. And then he picked up a couple extra lots and he decided to build a ranch home. He tore the cottage down and built a ranch home up there and that’s where he stayed… Shirley Bradley: Oh. Leslie Mitchell: …after he retired. But he, he had fits too because his retirement, the minute REO went bankrupt, the retirement dropped down to almost nothing, you know. Just like mine, 20 years and I hate to even mention what I got. Shirley Bradley: Yeah. Leslie Mitchell: So… Shirley Bradley: No. There wasn’t any pension when they, when they closed the doors. Leslie Mitchell: No. Not until it was… Shirley Bradley: But he was able to get a pension. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah, yeah. They had to go after Cappaert and he apparently, uh, had not deposited any money in the bank for the pension fund, which you was required to by law, and what he did was gave the bank IOUs and the bank then had a problem with that too, so. Shirley Bradley: Oh. Leslie Mitchell: He, I think the federal government sued him and he had to put something like 5 or 6 million into the retirement account, so. But with the number of people working, you know, it’s like $100 a month or something like that you get. Shirley Bradley: Hm. Leslie Mitchell: My dad was getting around $400 I think and he ended up getting $100-something when they cut the [inaudible 17:09], so. But I didn’t even get credit for all the time I worked there. I, uh, I worked there 2 years when I first got out of the service. A lot of people picked that up if they left and came back. I didn’t try to do that but I worked there 2 years. I worked there actually 18 years but, uh, they didn’t keep up their records apparently because they only gave me something like 17 years 6 months or something like that, something. Anyway, they shorted me because when, when they went, were going bankrupt they didn’t keep their personnel records up. Shirley Bradley: I see. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: When you were a child and your dad worked at REO, uh, I’ve heard so many wonderful stories of a clubhouse and the activities there. Leslie Mitchell: Mm-hm. Shirley Bradley: [17:56] Did your family take part in any of the, like the movies…? Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: …or the programs? Leslie Mitchell: Well, for kids every Friday we’d run from school down to the clubhouse to see the free movies. Uh, on Saturday night they had, uh, movies for the family or the adults but Friday nights was for kids. And, of course, I was in the men’s club so we used the clubhouse a lot, you know, when I worked there. We used to have a meeting once a month which was just a dinner or something like that. Shirley Bradley: Hm. Leslie Mitchell: Uh, at one time they had a bowling alley underneath the clubhouse and they also had, I wasn’t very old but they had WREO radio station which was the first one in Lansing. Shirley Bradley: [18:43] Did you have a radio in your house so you could pick it up…? Leslie Mitchell: Well, my dad… Shirley Bradley: …or a crystal set? Leslie Mitchell: My dad bought a crystal set and they used to listen to it. Before REO went on the air, they’d listen to KDKA in Pittsburgh. I remember my mother would go to bed at night and they’d take the headset apart and each one would take a headset… Shirley Bradley: Aw. [chuckle] Leslie Mitchell: …or earphone and listen to it or put it in a bowl and it acted like a speaker. Shirley Bradley: Oh really? Leslie Mitchell: And then when REO came on, he used to listen to that, of course. I heard stories about Carl Hall Dewey, the guy that had the band. Shirley Bradley: [19:16] Carl Hall Dewey? Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. He [inaudible 19:18] he had a band there and they played on the radio station every night. Shirley Bradley: Oh. Leslie Mitchell: And, uh, a concert on the radio station. Shirley Bradley: [19:26] And they broadcast it from the clubhouse? Leslie Mitchell: Mm-hm. Shirley Bradley: Okay. Leslie Mitchell: That’s where their transmitter was. Shirley Bradley: I see. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. They, uh, they weren’t on the air very long. I, I tried to find some records but I think they weren’t on the air only 2 years or something like that. And the story is that the station itself went to Saginaw when they sold it to WSAG in Saginaw. Shirley Bradley: Hm. Leslie Mitchell: But I do not remember that, of course. I wasn’t that old. I was just… Shirley Bradley: No. You were just a little kid. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. I was only a couple years old at the time, so. Shirley Bradley: Sure. Leslie Mitchell: ‘Cause I think it was 1927, something like in 1929 that radio station was on the air but a lot of people don’t know it was the first station in Lansing. WKAR came on the air before REO did but it was not in Lansing, see. Shirley Bradley: Oh. Leslie Mitchell: And, of course, the second one was WJIM and I remember that because I was in my teens when that happened. Shirley Bradley: I remember when WILS came on. Leslie Mitchell: Mm-hm. Shirley Bradley: That’s when I was in junior high school. Leslie Mitchell: Was it? Shirley Bradley: Mm-hm. Yeah. And they were upstairs over by North Washington. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. I remember that. Shirley Bradley: I think it was a furniture store downstairs or something. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: They were on the second floor. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: Um, so it was a good time and your dad had a good job. Leslie Mitchell: Yes. Shirley Bradley: And so you got along nicely and your mother didn’t have to work. Of course, lot of women didn’t work then. Leslie Mitchell: My mother worked all her life. Shirley Bradley: Pardon? Leslie Mitchell: My mother worked. Shirley Bradley: Did – oh, she did? Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. She also worked for reo. Shirley Bradley: Oh, she did? Leslie Mitchell: During the war. Shirley Bradley: Mm-hm. Leslie Mitchell: They made 40 mm bomb fuses and she worked there during the war. Shirley Bradley: 40 mm… Leslie Mitchell: She always worked. Hm? Shirley Bradley: [20:28] 40 mm? Leslie Mitchell: Bomb fuses. Shirley Bradley: Oh, the fuses. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: Yes. Down in the navy department? Leslie Mitchell: I don’t know. Shirley Bradley: Or something anyway. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: The fuses. Leslie Mitchell: It was down in the south end of the plant someplace [inaudible 21:10]. Shirley Bradley: Yes. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: Yeah. And so she worked there during the war. Leslie Mitchell: She worked there but she had worked at Fisher Body all her life. Shirley Bradley: Oh really? Leslie Mitchell: Uh, I guess she retired, uh, and then went back to work for Fisher Body, uh, making airplane wings or something, fuselages for bombers. And then she went to REO I think after that and worked on the fuses for the 40 mm shells. And then, then after that she didn’t go back to work for any big company, she worked as a seamstress for Sears Roebuck and Arbaugh’s and places like that. Shirley Bradley: Oh, Arbaugh’s. Leslie Mitchell: Making… Shirley Bradley: Alternations. Leslie Mitchell: …coverings for furniture and that type of thing. Shirley Bradley: Oh, upholstery. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. And Drapes, anything they wanted, so. Shirley Bradley: Did she…? Leslie Mitchell: She was a very good seamstress. Shirley Bradley: Oh, she must have been. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: So when she worked at REO, um, so she was really on the line making fuses. Leslie Mitchell: I don’t recall. I was in the service at the time. Shirley Bradley: Oh, you were there too so you don’t really know much of her experiences there. Leslie Mitchell: No. I don’t know exactly what she did. Shirley Bradley: She must have got along pretty well there. Leslie Mitchell: Mm-hm, mm-hm. Shirley Bradley: A lot of the women after the war the men came back for their jobs. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: So some of the women, now my mother stayed, but… Leslie Mitchell: Well, of course, they probably terminated the shell program after the war, so. Shirley Bradley: Yeah, yeah. Well, that’s interesting, so you were a REO family. [22:34] Did you have any other relatives that worked there, uncles or cousins? Leslie Mitchell: No. Not really. I had a cousin that worked there by the name of [Lon Haggett 22:41] and he worked there for a while. Shirley Bradley: Hm. Leslie Mitchell: I remember some of the people and, of course, I was a little kid, my dad would come home from work every night taking about these people that he was working with. He’d give their names and, of course, I got so I knew the names. Shirley Bradley: [23:01] You remember any of them yet? Leslie Mitchell: Uh, yeah. I [inaudible 23:03] right now you ask me [inaudible 23:05]. Shirley Bradley: Oh. [chuckle] Leslie Mitchell: Shorty, Shorty Mason and Tige Royce. Shirley Bradley: Tige Royce. Leslie Mitchell: Tige Royce, Tiger Royce they’d call him. Shirley Bradley: Hm. R-o-y-c-e, I imagine. Leslie Mitchell: R-o-y-c-e. Shirley Bradley: Mm-hm. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: Okay. Leslie Mitchell: And they didn’t have any kids and so I remember one Christmas they gave me a great big cowboy doll with all the chaps and everything on it. Shirley Bradley: Oh my. Leslie Mitchell: And he worked with my dad mostly. He was a test driver to begin with too. And I have pictures of Shorty Mason and Tige Royce and, uh, standing in front of one of the old REO buses that they took a picture. And a couple of the other people I’m not sure about but Shorty Mason and Tige Royce I’m sure about. So he always talked about these people when he came home from work at night. And apparently he took some pictures ‘cause I’ve got pictures of him standing in front of a bus I guess and also the group standing in front of an old bus and this looks like it’s probably back in the 20s maybe, late 20s, early 30s something like that. Shirley Bradley: [24:08] And this was a REO product? They made buses? Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. They made buses. Shirley Bradley: Oh. I didn’t know that. Hm. Leslie Mitchell: And the fact is they always had a truck line as far as I can find out. A lot of that stuff is on my webpage. Shirley Bradley: Hm. Leslie Mitchell: And, uh, including the pictures and, uh, with explanations and stuff about who these people are. I have pictures of REO. It was apparently my dad’s but I know he had a REO Royale once and, uh… Shirley Bradley: You did? Leslie Mitchell: He did. Shirley Bradley: He did. He did? Leslie Mitchell: I wish I did. [chuckle] Shirley Bradley: That was a nice car. Leslie Mitchell: He had several REOs. Shirley Bradley: Oh, he did. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. And there’s a coupe, a REO coupe with my mother standing or sitting in the car. I guess somebody, he must have took a picture of her. Uh, and then my grandmother, uh, was up north and it was in the wintertime ‘cause she’s standing in front of the, the vehicle and I noticed there’s chains on the REO wheels and kids today don’t know what chains are. They were difficult to get on but those pictures indicate there was a lot of snow there and chains on the car, so. It was a, it was a REO. I’m, I’m not real good at the models but… Shirley Bradley: Mm-hm, mm-hm. Leslie Mitchell: …but it was a REO. And I remember riding in a REO because I was probably 7, 8 years old or 6, 7 years old, something like that. My mother shut my fingers in the door one time, she put me in there. It didn’t hurt me but she thought it did. Shirley Bradley: So she felt terrible. Leslie Mitchell: Put me in and slammed the door. Shirley Bradley: [25:36] Was that before the back seats had heaters in and had lap robes that you…? Leslie Mitchell: That I don’t recall. Shirley Bradley: Uh-huh. Leslie Mitchell: I don’t remember. I, I assume it had a heater. Shirley Bradley: Hm. I know they… Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: …in the beginning didn’t have them for the back seats. Leslie Mitchell: I think this was 1929 or somewhere around there. Shirley Bradley: Okay. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: Okay. Leslie Mitchell: I was only 4 or 5 years old. I was going for a ride. Shirley Bradley: Well, let’s talk about you when you went to REO now. [26:08] What – why did you think of going to REO, because your father had worked there? Leslie Mitchell: Well, I worked for REO after WWII. I stayed home for a couple months and my dad said, well, it’s about time you got a job. He said come down to REO and we’ll get you in. And so I went down there and I started out down there on the engine line as an inspector and stayed with that for a while and then moved up to front end assembly which was hoods and fenders and stuff like that went on the cab on the cab line. And the problem with that is REO because it was right after the war was only running something like 1 or 2 days a week and then they might lay you off for a week or 2 and then call you back. And I put up with that for a while and then I applied for a job at Oldsmobile and I got a letter from REO and Olds, both to come to work so I said, well, I’m not putting up with this working 1 or 2 days a week then getting laid off for a week or 2 so I went to work for Olds where I worked for 7 years, uh, over there in engineering. And, uh, one day I got married or something and the supervisor got at me for not coming in on Monday morning so we got in a hassle and I went downstairs and quit. And the guy down in Personnel said you can’t quit, you’ve been here too long. I said don’t tell me I can’t quit. So I left there and I, I got a job at a job shop doing machine design for about a year and then they, they were an order type place too. If they didn’t have the orders, you didn’t work, so I went down to REO and put my application in again, I got a job in engineering. I worked for Walt Olin. Shirley Bradley: Walt. Leslie Mitchell: Walt Olin. Shirley Bradley: Olin. Leslie Mitchell: O-l-i-n. Yeah. Shirley Bradley: Okay. Thank you. Leslie Mitchell: He was the supervisor in charge of engineering, he was not the chief engineer. Walworth was – a guy by the name of Walworth was the chief engineer at that time, so. And they went through 2 or 3 chief engineers especially after Diamond, I mean White bought’m and they started building [inaudible 28:30]. Shirley Bradley: After White Motor. Leslie Mitchell: After, after White bought’m then they went through a couple 3 engineers. Shirley Bradley: Oh, they did? Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: [28:36] Because those people would leave or? Leslie Mitchell: Well, I think probably I know when Diamond T [inaudible 28:42] they brought a lot of people with them and the chief engineer was from Diamond T. I forget his name, a little, short guy. Uh, I’m trying to think of some names. Shirley Bradley: [28:58] So when the company would be bought out by say Diamond REO or White Motors…? Leslie Mitchell: Mm-hm. Shirley Bradley: …they brought in some of their own people? Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: And replaced some of the regular workers? Leslie Mitchell: Mm-hm. Well, White bought’m and White also owned Diamond T and so the Diamond T plant down in Chicago was so bad that it wasn’t worth fixing up so they just moved the truck plant up here. Shirley Bradley: [29:21] The building, you mean, was deteriorating? Leslie Mitchell: Yeah, yeah. They didn’t have a decent assembly line. They used a towline like a rope that towed the truck so far so that’s why they decided to move it up there. Shirley Bradley: I see. Where they had at least more modern things. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. At that point, then, at that point it was right – I don’t know. Diamond – White had a brand new engine plant being built and they were vying for money so that’s why they sold REO to Cappaert and, uh, that was a big mistake because REO was making money at that time. When Cappaert got it, well, let’s see, when White had it I think it was the only one that was really turning a profit too. Shirley Bradley: Hm. Leslie Mitchell: And, uh, but, uh, when Cappaert got it, that was – he had something like 7 companies but they’re all very small and REO was still turning a profit. It was just a matter of fact when they went bankrupt, Cappaert didn’t pay the bills. He was investing money in his other companies or using it someplace else. But yeah, I think right after I got to REO in ’49, 1949, somebody like United was REO Truck Company at that time and somebody bought the stock and vaguely, I’m not sure about this, I think it was somebody like UnitedCan or something in Wisconsin, which had nothing to do with trucks. Shirley Bradley: UnitedCan? Leslie Mitchell: UnitedCan I think it was. Shirley Bradley: Okay. Leslie Mitchell: And they or whoever it was, the first thing they did was throw a big chicken dinner for all the employees there. Shirley Bradley: Oh. Leslie Mitchell: And, uh, which I don’t like chicken but I went and ate everything but the chicken and – but they didn’t keep it very long. And, uh, I don’t remember if White was the next one to buy it after that, I think they were. But I do remember when it was the REO Truck Company there was a guy by the name of Jim Durbin, he was the vice president, older guy. Shirley Bradley: Hm. Leslie Mitchell: A little, short, gray-haired guy and he wore a hearing aid. And he used to come down to engineering, he was very hard to get along with, very difficult. Shirley Bradley: Oh, he was? Leslie Mitchell: And he’d get the, he’d be telling the engineers what to do, what he didn’t like, what he did like, and they’d get into an argument. Well, the minute they got into an argument, he’d reach up and turned his hearing aid off so he didn’t have to listen to them so that was a little thing I remember. Shirley Bradley: And his name was Derby. Leslie Mitchell: Durbin, yeah. Shirley Bradley: Durbin. Leslie Mitchell: Durbin. Shirley Bradley: Okay. Leslie Mitchell: Jim Durbin. He was a character. You never see the president come down there, so. Shirley Bradley: Um, let’s see. You remember, uh, your training, probably you already knew pretty much what you needed to do in the shop. [32:13] But did they give you an extra training for different jobs they put you on or…? You came with a pretty good background and... Leslie Mitchell: No. The guy I worked with there in the electrical engineering department, he took advantage of a plan they had you could go to college. It got to a point where they’d let him off something like twice a week or something and pay him and he would go in the afternoon sometimes, they paid him for that. They didn’t have any really programs for education but they would bend over background to help you but I never recall any educational programs there. Shirley Bradley: Hm, okay. [32:56] What were the working conditions like when you worked there at REO? I mean, I guess I’m talking cleanliness and safety and, um, breaks and things like that. Leslie Mitchell: Well, I would say they were pretty good. They had breaks. The building was so old, of course, that they didn’t have air conditioning. It would get awful warm in the summertime. Shirley Bradley: Oh yeah. Leslie Mitchell: They finally, finally put some air conditioners. Shirley Bradley: Oh, they did? Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. [Inaudible 33:22]. Shirley Bradley: [33:22] All over the plant or just in certain departments? Leslie Mitchell: Just, just in the office areas. Shirley Bradley: Oh, in the office areas. Leslie Mitchel: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: Okay. Uh, I remember my mother talking about a man by the name of Johnny, that’s all she ever called him, and he drove a forklift and the forklift went through the floor on the second floor and crashed down and it killed him. And she was so upset, not only because he’d gotten killed, I guess he was one of those people everybody liked, but the fact that the building was getting so old… Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: …and they, and they had been neglecting to do any reinforcement or – this would have been, uh, after the war, uh, ’48 or ’49 maybe. Leslie Mitchell: Mm-hm. Shirley Bradley: I’m guessing here, but, so I heard, remember hearing from her how old the building was and how things needed repair and they weren’t getting it. I don’t know about the machinery, if, if they were updating any machinery. Leslie Mitchell: There are pictures around. I, I don’t have one. Originally, when you go to the plant, [inaudible 34:19] plant there, they had a test track right next to it which was an oval track they use to drive the cars around. Shirley Bradley: I see. Leslie Mitchell: Uh, so that, you’re going back to the early days when you’re talking. I can’t tell you an exact date but the only thing I remember that really impressed me was the clubhouse. And you say living conditions, they used to have a men’s club and a ladies’ cub and they footed that and there was always a wonderful dinner every month. And I recall those who wanted to go they’d take’m down to [inaudible 34:53] baseball… Shirley Bradley: Oh. Leslie Mitchell: …once a year… Shirley Bradley: Really? Leslie Mitchell: …and, uh, for a game. And then they had a ladies night. We had a Christmas party and they used to give away gifts and things like that but, uh… Shirley Bradley: Well that must have been a good time for all the employees. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. But somebody, you know, always gets hurt. When I worked at Olds, there was a couple of guys who got killed over there. Shirley Bradley: Hm. Leslie Mitchell: When I worked at REO there was one guy that got killed. They were producing some of these give-away trucks for the military going over to Turkey and places and they used to have to test them on the rolls so they’d take’m and they tested’m. This guy got too close to the rolls when the truck was on and it caught his sweater or something, just wrapped him right up and killed him and threw him up against the wall, so. Shirley Bradley: [35:39] What, what are the rolls? Is that something the truck [inaudible 35:41]? Leslie Mitchell: They’re, they’re like big rollers. They sit on the ground. They drive a vehicle over’m or a truck or a car. Shirley Bradley: And they’re… Leslie Mitchell: The wheels sat between the 2 rollers and so when you put it in gear and drive it, it just spins those rolls. Shirley Bradley: Oh, I see. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: To simulate being… Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: …out on the road. Leslie Mitchell: To simulate driving, yeah. Shirley Bradley: I see. Leslie Mitchell: So that’s the way they tested them. Shirley Bradley: And he got pulled into it. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. He got somehow a piece of clothing or something he had got too close to the rolls and the tire or something and, and it snagged him up and just threw him against the wall on the back and killed him, so. Shirley Bradley: [36:15] Were you in that department when that happened? Leslie Mitchell: I was working when that happened but that wasn’t my department. Shirley Bradley: Oh, I see. You just happened to be… Leslie Mitchell: Production, yeah. Shirley Bradley: …happened to be there… Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: …when it happened. Oh my. I wonder in a case like that if REO paid anything to the family. Leslie Mitchell: Oh, I’m sure they did. Yeah, big lawsuit. If not, they probably settled I’m sure. Shirley Bradley: [36:35] Was REO union then? Leslie Mitchell: Uh, REO… Shirley Bradley: I know in ’37 we had the big thing, you know, the big strike. Leslie Mitchell: REO was the first union in Lansing. Shirley Bradley: Really? Leslie Mitchell: Not Olds, REO. Shirley Bradley: That’s interesting. I didn’t know that. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Local 650 and it wasn’t until later that Oldsmobile got unionized but REO was the first UAW union here in Lansing. And, uh, back in the 60s the office people, they never gave raises much to office people and stuff like that so they got, and everybody did more than what their job would be, so a group of them decided they wanted the union there so they got a white collar union. They had the blue collar union but they got the white collar union, which included engineers and… [clock chime] Shirley Bradley: And maybe office workers... Leslie Mitchell: …technicians. Yeah. Shirley Bradley: …and that sort of thing Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. That’s when I got that. Shirley Bradley: Hm. Um, well, I was going to ask you if anybody got hurt there but I guess somebody did. Leslie Mitchell: Mm-hm. Shirley Bradley: Um, and I know that there was the REO, uh, the hospital. Leslie Mitchell: Yes, the nurse, mm-hm. Shirley Bradley: Mm-hm. [37:52] Uh, did you ever have to go down there? You never got hurt on the job? Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Uh, when I was working in production right after WWII there I was up in a building and what they call bumpers, they were large truck bumpers, you know, front end bumpers and they took grommets and tow hooks and stuff and I used to put the pieces on’m, then I’d hook up a pulley to it or an air hoist actually, lifted it up. And there was a big hole in the floor, you dropped it down for them to put on the truck where the assembly line was running below. Shirley Bradley: Hm. Leslie Mitchell: And I went to pull one of those up one time, they were on a big trailer-like thing and the bumpers all fell down. I broke 3 toes, so. Shirley Bradley: Well, that ought to hurt. Leslie Mitchell: It hurt. I didn’t go to first aid until the next day. Shirley Bradley: [38:42] Oh, ‘cause you didn’t realize they were broken or you wanted to finish your shift or? Leslie Mitchell: Well, I didn’t realize they were broken. It just hurt. Shirley Bradley: Yeah. Leslie Mitchell: I was going to slough it off but then I couldn’t walk, so. I, I’m trying to think what was the name, Arden? Shirley Bradley: [Artive Pappin 38:54]. Leslie Mitchell: Artis Pappin, yeah. Shirley Bradley: She was so nice. Leslie Mitchell: I liked her, yeah. Shirley Bradley: I think everybody did. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. We had… Shirley Bradley: I wanted to interview her but she – when before when Lisa Fine and I did interviews back in 1998, I think it was, and we wanted to interview her too and we were never able to because she wasn’t feeling very well and just when she would get ready to do it then she would have another bad spell, you know, so we… Leslie Mitchell: Too bad. Shirley Bradley: Yeah. It really was a sad thing… Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: …‘cause I really wanted to talk to her. She took care of me once. My dad took me over when I’d gotten hurt. Leslie Mitchell: Mm-hm. Shirley Bradley: And she was the one that took care of me, so. Um, [throat clearing] okay, let’s see. [39:36] Do you remember anything about the wages, uh? Leslie Mitchell: I first started working at REO after 1946, ’47, first of the year. They were paying me by the number of vehicles that I built in a day. Shirley Bradley: [39:58] So is that, was that piece work? Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: Okay. Leslie Mitchell: And, uh, so if you run a bunch of vehicles, uh, you got a pretty good paycheck, but if you didn’t run very many, you got a small paycheck. And something I’ll tell you, when I went over to Olds they were running something like 110 cars an hour off the assembly line, which made it one time I remember at REO they run 120 in a day. Shirley Bradley: [40:26] One hundred trucks in a day? Leslie Mitchell: One hundred trucks in a day, yeah. Shirley Bradley: That’s complete off the end of the assembly line… Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. That’s the only time I remember… Shirley Bradley: …ready to sell. Leslie Mitchell: …yeah, remembering that many in 8 hours they ran 100 trucks. Shirley Bradley: My goodness. Leslie Mitchell: But when you stop and think about Olds, they were running 110 an hour. [laughter] Vehicles, trucks are a long wheelbase and it takes longer for them to get down the line and it’s a lot, it’s a lot different. Shirley Bradley: I imagine. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: But that’s, that’s interesting. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: [40:52] Um, so you were paid by the, by the vehicle and then when you went into engineering was that an increase in pay or? Leslie Mitchell: Oh yeah. Shirley Bradley: [41:06] Did you have overtime? Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. I just got working at Olds, another place I was getting paid pretty good wages and I wouldn’t have taken the job if they hadn’t been comparable or more. Actually, it was about the same I think with a promise of a raise every 6 months or something like that. Shirley Bradley: That was at Olds. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. No. REO. Shirley Bradley: That was at REO. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. [Inaudible 41:26]. Shirley Bradley: Oh, okay. Leslie Mitchell: I compared my wages at Olds and working at engineering there what it would be when I went in there so that’s what I requested and, of course, they try to buy, they try to get you to work [inaudible 41:38] can but I got the same wages I got. Wage scales I, I’m trying to think. I think by the hour I think in 1947, January something or February when I went to work there they were getting something like $1.42 an hour or something like it ‘cause I do remember getting $1.57 but it was lower than that at one time. That was in 1947 ‘cause I went to work there I think in January or February of ’47, February of ’47. Shirley Bradley: [42:15] So that was a competitive wage for that year for that time, wasn’t it? Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. People, uh, I think people, probably there was a tremendous amount of people would work at REO for a number of years and go over to Oldsmobile. They used to say that they got their education at REO, which is a good place, and Olds would hire anybody that had worked at REO. Shirley Bradley: Oh, they would. Leslie Mitchell: Yes. Because they knew… Shirley Bradley: ‘Cause they knew they came with some background. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah, they had a good background. Shirley Bradley: Some skills. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: Oh. Uh, I remember that after the war there was a steel strike, a railroad strike, a coal strike. I mean it seemed like my mother was out of work almost for 2 years off and on… Leslie Mitchell: Hm. Shirley Bradley: …because there wouldn’t be any materials to work with. Leslie Mitchell: Hm. Shirley Bradley: When the steel went, yeah, when the steel [inaudible 43:02]. Leslie Mitchell: That I don’t recall. Shirley Bradley: Then, the railroad strike and nothing was coming in. Leslie Mitchell: Well, generally speaking, you know, if you work in engineering or on salary they don’t, it doesn’t affect you. Shirley Bradley: Oh, is that right? Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: You would keep on working. Leslie Mitchell: Unless it was a long period of time then they might think about cutting back but… Shirley Bradley: Hm, well, that’s good. Leslie Mitchell: But production really relies on the steel and parts and stuff like that. Shirley Bradley: And transport and having things come in and go out. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. If they’re not getting the parts, they’re not working. It’s like when Olds, the Detroit Hydra-matic Plant burned up, they had no transmissions to put in the cars and so… Shirley Bradley: Mm-hm. Leslie Mitchell: …as most people know, if they remember that, they went to Buick and they put Buick transmissions in Oldsmobiles for a while. [chuckle] Shirley Bradley: Oh, was that in the…? Leslie Mitchell: Fifties. Shirley Bradley: Fifties, that’s what I was thinking. Yeah. Leslie Mitchell: But they do run into a bind and they, they look for parts elsewhere, of course, if they can get’m. Shirley Bradley: You got to have them. Leslie Mitchell: A good purchasing department will find’m someplace. Shirley Bradley: [44:04] Um, do you remember some of the folks you worked with through the years? Leslie Mitchell: Not very many. I – my memory is very poor. Uh, I remember, of course, Walt Olin at REO was my boss and Bill Walworth the chief engineer when I went to work there. And, uh, let’s see, of course, the guy I worked with was George, uh, it slips my mind. I’ve know him for so many years and I still don’t remember his name. Shirley Bradley: Maybe it will pop back in. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Jack Hill worked there in the, in the cab department. Shirley Bradley: Jack Hill. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Who else? Shirley Bradley: [44:46] Did you by any chance work with Ray Kimball? Leslie Mitchell: It rings a bell. I just don’t know. Shirley Bradley: I’m thinking that he worked… Leslie Mitchell: I don’t know where he worked but I rather doubt whether it was engineering. Shirley Bradley: Okay. He wasn’t in engineering I don’t think but I think Dick Trierweiler was. Leslie Mitchell: Yes. Shirley Bradley: I talked to him just the day before yesterday. In fact, I think I told him I was going to be talking to you. Leslie Mitchell: Some of these people worked in sales engineering which is a part of the sales department. They do a lot of go-betweens between sales and, uh, and the manufacturing plant to get the vehicles, vehicles. To the best of my knowledge, nobody has ever said that reo didn’t make one of the best trucks on the market but each truck was different. That was one reason they couldn’t run a lot of trucks in one day, because each truck took different parts, different axles, different transmissions, different cabs, uh, a lot of accessories, uh, so. Shirley Bradley: [45:50] Depending on what they were being sold for? Leslie Mitchell: Yeah, yeah. Shirley Bradley: The market. Leslie Mitchell: Just like you going into a car dealer and ordering the car with everything you want on it. Shirley Bradley: Mm-hm. Leslie Mitchell: They have to build that car for you because nowadays they just build cars and put stuff on and buy’m out of the lot but that wasn’t true with trucks. Shirley Bradley: There were kind of custom-ordered almost. Leslie Mitchell: I can’t remember… Shirley Bradley: [46:08] The military trucks and the commercial trucks, right? Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: [46:12] So there would be a difference right there, wouldn’t there? Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Well, the military controls the complete truck and we used to have big orders for the United Parcel Service. We used to build their trucks and they were… Shirley Bradley: Oh. [46:24] The UPS? Leslie Mitchell: They sent men right down there to keep track from the time that order started until that truck was built and delivered. Shirley Bradley: Is that right? Leslie Mitchell: And UPS was very stringent. You had to build that truck to their specifications or they wouldn’t take it. Shirley Bradley: Really? Leslie Mitchell: UPS was a big order. They always made a lot of money on UPS. Shirley Bradley: I never knew that. I never heard that before. That’s interesting. Leslie Mitchell: Mm-hm. Yeah. Shirley Bradley: That’s interesting. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. George Welch was that guy’s name. I worked with him there. Shirley Bradley: I’m sorry. George? Leslie Mitchell: Welch . Shirley Bradley: Oh, Welch, okay. Leslie Mitchell: W-e-l-c-h. Shirley Bradley: Mm-hm. Leslie Mitchell: I went to work there, I started working for him and then it wasn’t until later they put more men in the electrical engineering department. They only had 1. He couldn’t do it all, so they put me in there. And the later years, latter years, I’m not sure, I think I was a checker, I was checking all the drawings, uh, all the designs and stuff going out of there. That’s the day that they went broke. That’s something else. They, they went broke April. Shirley Bradley: When they went broke in April of 1976. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. It was April of ’76. April 6. Shirley Bradley: Oh. Leslie Mitchell: And I remember they came down and told us around 3, 4 o’clock to take our stuff home with us that the plant was closing. Shirley Bradley: [47:45] Were you shocked? Leslie Mitchell: I don’t know. I guess in a way but everybody figured it would just open back up again, which it never did. Shirley Bradley: Oh, you thought it was maybe temporary. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Everybody thought it was just going to open back up. Shirley Bradley: ‘Cause REO was a serious boom and bust anyway, wasn’t it? Leslie Mitchell: Yeah, yeah. Shirley Bradley: Between contracts. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: So this wasn’t something you thought was permanent. Leslie Mitchell: No. We thought they would open up again. In fact, I didn’t understand the United States government. When it went broke, Cappaert had it and there was a Swedish shipbuilding company offered to buy REO and refurbish some of the plants in it and also an Arab country that wanted to buy the place and the United States government from what I heard said no, we’re not getting any foreign interest in here. I thought how ridiculous. Shirley Bradley: Isn’t that interesting? Leslie Mitchell: The Japanese own half the United States now but that’s what they said. Shirley Bradley: Isn’t that interesting. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: You know, in the context of what’s happening now. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: But at that time… Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. That’s what we heard, it was 2 countries. Shirley Bradley: That’s interesting. Nobody has ever told me that before. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. They were interested in buying it and I can’t remember whether it was the Arabs or the Swedish company… Shirley Bradley: Mm-hm. Leslie Mitchell: …wanted [inaudible 49:01] a promise they would buy it, they would build a brand new assembly plant, so. Shirley Bradley: That sounded pretty good. Leslie Mitchell: But then the government said no, we don’t want any foreign interest in here, so. Shirley Bradley: I wonder if they would have, what their idea was to continue building trucks or maybe go back to… Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: Trucks. Leslie Mitchell: They were going to leave it the same, use it to build trucks. Shirley Bradley: Because the trucks were good. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Well, they apparently they investigate these things. Like REO was making money. There was no question about that. Shirley Bradley: They were. So it wasn’t a … Leslie Mitchell: That isn’t why they went broke. The guy that owned it didn’t pay his bills. Shirley Bradley: Hm. Leslie Mitchell: He used the money elsewhere… Shirley Bradley: Mm-hm. For himself, I guess. Leslie Mitchell: …and we [inaudible 49:33]. He had 6 other companies and he was either taking it out and not putting it back in, so [inaudible 49:41] he owed money to. They took, I don’t know when it was, 20 years or more to get everybody paid off. And the fact it was 20 years later I got a check in the mail for $10, usually I got one for $250 or something like that. Shirley Bradley: But still when you figure… Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: …to balance that against what the pension you should have had. Leslie Mitchell: Well, that was just, I don’t even know what it was. They, they owed the employees money. Shirley Bradley: Hm, mm-hm. Leslie Mitchell: And so they figured out so much. The first check I got was something like $250 or something. That was maybe a year after REO went broke. Shirley Bradley: Hm. Leslie Mitchell: Uh… Shirley Bradley: Oh really? That soon? Leslie Mitchell: And it seems like I got one other one which was maybe $50 or something like that and the last one was something like $20. Shirley Bradley: Hm. Leslie Mitchell: But that was 20 years later, so it took a long time in the court. Shirley Bradley: Yes, it did. Leslie Mitchell: To get rid of that. Shirley Bradley: Yes, it certainly did. Leslie Mitchell: All the people who he owed money to, like companies, had to be paid off first. Shirley Bradley: Yes. Creditors. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah, had to be paid off first, then the employees. We waited a while to get ours. I assume maybe the first payment was made within a year was probably something to do with wages or perhaps cost of living or something, I don’t know. Shirley Bradley: Hm. Leslie Mitchell: At the time, had the union all over the plant at that time. Shirley Bradley: I’ve, I’ve heard I think with the first series of interviews that I did that when it went, when the plant closed and a lot of people lost their pensions that there were some suicides. Leslie Mitchell: I didn’t hear that, no. Shirley Bradley: I don’t have names, you know, for that. Leslie Mitchell: Mm-hm. No. Shirley Bradley: That’s what we were told. Leslie Mitchell: I never heard of that before. Shirley Bradley: You know, people that were older and couldn’t maybe get another job... Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: …because they were really close to retirement… Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: …and then to have it all disappear. [51:29] Uh, let’s see, can you remember anything that happened that was kind of funny on the job through the years or something that was really serious or a problem you came up against that you remember? Leslie Mitchell: Well, it depends. Shirley Bradley: [chuckle] Depends on your point of view, huh? Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. I – we used to sit next to the windows on Washington Avenue across from Quality Dairy there and the little bar that was there and we used to go across the street to the bar and have lunch. And there was a woman who used to come down the street and she’d kick her legs up in the air and jump over the fire plug and stuff like that and everybody thought it was really funny so all the guys sat in engineering could look out the window used to watch her come down the street. Well, she, she’d go in the bar and she would, the guys would buy her a drink. I guess she was pretty, how do I put this, pretty loose. Uh, but they found out she, she had a mental problem. She was a mental problem. Shirley Bradley: Aw. Leslie Mitchell: Then she had been a ballet dancer at one time… Shirley Bradley: Oh. Leslie Mitchell: …and quite well known I guess but then she lost her mind. Shirley Bradley: Hm. Leslie Mitchell: She’d been in mental institutions several times and they let her out but that was kind of, it was funny to watch her come down the street but all the guys in engineering used to sit there and watch her. I remember one morning the guy I worked with came across from the parking lot came across the street and she came up to him and she says how you doin’? Is there something I can do for you? And this guy was real embarrassed. He didn’t know what to do. I told him, I said George, just walk away, keep on walking. Shirley Bradley: [chuckle] And the ballet accounts for the jumping. Leslie Mitchell: Yes. And she was a ballet dancer [inaudible 53:25]. Shirley Bradley: She could still, she could still make some of the… Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: Hm. [53:29] Well, let me see, looking back now, uh, what do you think about REO Motor Car Company? What kind of thoughts did it leave with you or impressions? A good place to work? Um, you’re glad you spent some time there or? Leslie Mitchell: Yes. I think it was the best place I ever worked because they didn’t push you. That’s what was wrong when I worked for Oldsmobile. Everything was spit and polish and stuff like that, you know. And you had to do everything by the numbers and there was not any, there was not a friendly atmosphere at Oldsmobile. Shirley Bradley: [54:04] But it was at REO? Leslie Mitchell: But it was at REO. Everybody mingled with everyone and even if there was somebody there you didn’t like, I mean, you still associate with them, you know. And the company was always I thought quite fair about things. Of course, we would always complain about wages or something like that but… Shirley Bradley: Oh, but that’s a universal thing. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. It happens all over. But I thought overall it was the best place I ever worked. Shirley Bradley: You sort of felt like people cared about… Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: …what was happening in your lives. Leslie Mitchell: Right, yeah. Shirley Bradley: [Inaudible 54:33]. Leslie Mitchell: I, I made several friends there. There was a guy by the name of [Nolen McLaren 54:37] I worked with for a while. And for some reason or another when I was a kid I was into magic and then all of a sudden I decided I’m going to get into magic so I started doing magic tricks and magic shows and I used to bring little pocket tricks in and Nolen was just crazy about it. He always wanted to buy something so he’d buy these little things and he’d take them over to the bar across the street and he’d wager some money on something, one of the tricks, and he’d make a dollar or something like that. [laughter] But no, the company was very good. I had no problem. Even when Cappaert owned it, they weren’t very strict or anything. And, of course, the department is what we were [inaudible 55:22]. We did associate with the other departments, parts and service or sales or something like that. Shirley Bradley: Mm-hm. Leslie Mitchell: My, my problem is I forget names so I just don’t [inaudible 55:37]. Shirley Bradley: I recall seeing a picture of a couple that got married there on their lunchbreak. Leslie Mitchell: Oh, did they? I don’t remember that. Shirley Bradley: During, during the war. Yeah, it was during the war. Leslie Mitchell: Oh, during the war. I wasn’t there. Shirley Bradley: Yeah. You may not have even been there at that time. Leslie Mitchell: No. Shirley Bradley: But I just, it just popped into my head when you were talking about a friendly place and everybody from the department was there, you know… Leslie Mitchell: Mm-hm. Shirley Bradley: …for the wedding by the machines. Leslie Mitchell: I do remember one time when I was in the service I was shipping from, I was shipping from California [inaudible 56:06] time I guess from Texas and Mississippi by train and, uh, they gave me extra days to get from Texas to Mississippi, so I took and came up to Lansing. And it happened to be on a holiday, I think it was July 4 and when I got here, of course, my dad told me do you know they’re going to have a parade. You got to come down and ride in the parade. REO is going to have some trucks in the parade. So I went down and got into a big tank retriever and the guy’s name that was driving the truck was Tige Royce, the guy that I told you about earlier. He was driving the truck and, of course, that was something I didn’t really care about but my dad wanted me to go down there. Shirley Bradley: You were doing it for your dad. Leslie Mitchell: I had my uniform on. Shirley Bradley: Sure. He was proud of you. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah, so that’s, that’s the only vehicle I ever saw during WWII that REO made. It was a big tank retriever. Shirley Bradley: I was going to ask you something about your father. Oh, oh, I know what it was. [57:17] What year did you say he retired, in the 50s maybe or…? Leslie Mitchell: Well, he retired when he was 63. Uh, he was born in 1902. [chuckle] Shirley Bradley: I guess what I’m thinking… Leslie Mitchell: So that would be… Shirley Bradley: [57:37] Was he there during the war? Leslie Mitchell: Oh yeah. Shirley Bradley: He was. Okay. Then he was there during the 30s. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: I just got to thinking. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. He went to work in 1920 there. Shirley Bradley: Okay. Leslie Mitchell: And he stayed there until, until, until he was 63. Shirley Bradley: Yeah. Then he must have been there during the strike. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: The labor strike. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: [57:56] Do you remember him being…? Leslie Mitchell: Yes. I remember that. Shirley Bradley: [57:58] Was he locked into the building? Leslie Mitchell: You know what? He, he was on the, he was a steward on the union and it was a sit-down strike. You know, where they all sit down and don’t go anyplace. And he was on the food committee and he used to see that the families got food for the workers who were on strike. Shirley Bradley: Oh. Leslie Mitchell: And then I went down to the plant a couple times with him and they had entertainment. They’d have some bands or something come in there and play for the strikers. Shirley Bradley: [58:25] They did? Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. And, uh… Shirley Bradley: [58:27] They could come right into the building? Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. They’d come in the building. They let them in the building and, uh, I just don’t remember. It just seems like it was a couple guys with a guitar or something at one time. I don’t know what exactly it was but I do know they had entertainment for them. Shirley Bradley: And food was taken in for them. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: So they weren’t… Leslie Mitchell: The union paid for the food. They also paid for the food for the families and my dad had charge of that too. He couldn’t understand, there was one family – they had all kinds of food, you know, canned goods and stuff, he says the only thing they wanted was potatoes and ketchup ‘cause that’s all they ate was potatoes and ketchup. He didn’t understand that. He said I tried to give them meat. I tried to give them canned goods. He said all they want is potatoes and ketchup. He said that’s all they eat. I said wow. Shirley Bradley: Wow. [chuckle] Leslie Mitchell: But I do remember the strike, yeah. Shirley Bradley: [59:17] Well, uh, any, anything that you want to share with me that I haven’t even considered and didn’t know about asking or I didn’t think about of your experience or your dad’s or? Where did you live when you worked in the factory? Were you close by like your parents had been? Leslie Mitchell: Uh, I lived with my parents right after wwII… Shirley Bradley: Mm-hm. Leslie Mitchell: …for a while, maybe. I worked at REO then and probably for about a year and then I got out and got my own place which was way up in the North End. And after that, I moved to an apartment in the South End and then I built a house in the South End and I lived there for a long time. That was somewhere around 1959 until 1976 I lived in that house. Shirley Bradley: [60:11] Did you ever buy a REO for yourself to drive? Leslie Mitchell: No, no. Shirley Bradley: No. Leslie Mitchell: Well, it had to have been a used one. Shirley Bradley: Well, of course, I shouldn’t even ask that. They quit making them in the 30s. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. They quit making them in 1937. Shirley Bradley: I wasn’t thinking. Leslie Mitchell: I was only 12 years old. Shirley Bradley: I wasn’t thinking. Leslie Mitchell: I would like to have an old one but I can’t afford it. Shirley Bradley: Yeah. Oh, they’re wonderful but they [inaudible 60:29]. Leslie Mitchell: Yeah. I get – I have a web page with all these old REOs on it and I have a place where people can send me emails and I get frequent emails people wanting to know where to get parts for old REOs or wanting to know the year or model and, of course, I always refer them to the REO Car Club of America. Shirley Bradley: Yes. Leslie Mitchell: And those people could help them out, so. Shirley Bradley: Uh, I was just thinking about your website. [60:57] Is it okay if we put that on the message if anybody is…? Leslie Mitchell: Well, you could. Shirley Bradley: …listening that they might want to if they, when they listen to the – oh, by the way, uh, I just remembered, I got to have you sign a permission slip too. But, uh, I will say that these, these tapes of these interviews are going to be kept at the museum. Leslie Mitchell: Mm-hm. Shirley Bradley: They’re not going anywhere else. Leslie Mitchell: Mm-hm. Shirley Bradley: They’re just going to be kept there for information. Um, Mr. Mitchell’s website is www.angle... Leslie Mitchell: Angel. Shirley Bradley: Angel. Leslie Mitchell: Angelfire. Shirley Bradley: Huh? Leslie Mitchell: Angelfire. Shirley Bradley: Angelfire. Leslie Mitchell: All one word. Shirley Bradley: www.angelfire.com/electronic/bigbands/flyingcloud.html and that’s his REO webpage that he has created. As he says, he has pictures and information on there. Well, I thank you very much for talking with me today. Leslie Mitchell: You’re welcome. I enjoyed the interview and it’s very nice of you to think of us. /mlc