Marylyn Shadduck discusses her career at REO Motor Car Company and Diamond REO Trucks, Inc. 06/08/2004 Shirley Bradley: This is June 8 and this is Shirley Bradley and Marylyn Shadduck and we’re at her home and we’re just going to be talking about REO memories. And I think I’ll start by asking her just a little personal background. She’s given us some wonderful typed information on, that we’ll be happy to have copies of and we can store at the museum with this tape but, um, just for the record, we’re going to put this on tape today. [0:31] I’m just going to start by asking her a little bit about her background, where she grew up, and where she went to school, even though she has been showing me and telling me [chuckle], I need a little bit on the tape. Marylyn Shadduck: Well, I was born in Lansing at St. Lawrence Hospital the night before Christmas. Shirley Bradley: Oh! Marylyn Shadduck: And my mother’s name was Mary and I always thought that was significant. And I lived in Lansing all my life. I went to Maplewood School and Walter French. And the REO Clubhouse was always a big part of our existence for one reason or another when we were kids. That was where we went for our free movies. We’d run all the way from Maplewood School to beat all the other kids for a seat. And one day when we were running cross country and had to hurdle the parking lot barriers, my girlfriend tripped and it was just too bad, she actually sprained her wrist but she had to pick herself up and join us if she wanted a seat. That’s the way it was. [chuckle] And it would get out about 5:00 and my dad would come home from the State building where he was working and sometimes we’d get a ride and sometimes we wouldn’t, but I think it was once a week. Then, of course, they had evening shows for the employees and families. We weren’t allowed to sit in the balcony during the kids’ things because we’re mischievous, you know. Shirley Bradley: Oh. Marylyn Shadduck: The organ was up there and they’d throw paper wads or one thing or another if they – one day, somebody through a peppermint, one of those pinwheel peppermint things. Shirley Bradley: Mm-hm. Marylyn Shadduck: Or no, I was sucking on one and somebody through a paper wad and I inhaled real quick ‘cause it startled me and that thing… Shirley Bradley: Oh. Marylyn Shadduck: I thought I was going to die. It just worked its way down my whatever [chuckle] and by the end of the movie it had dissolved itself. It’s a wonder I didn’t, didn’t choke to death. [laughter] And I saw the original Ben-Hur movie. It was the brand new color and it was awfully hard on our eyes. Shirley Bradley: Was it? Marylyn Shadduck: And, and some of the dialogue was in writing and I couldn’t read that well yet and I kept punching the person in front of me to ask him what it said. I can remember that. [chuckle] And then Lew Ayres was there in… Shirley Bradley: Oh my. Marylyn Shadduck: …in All Quiet on the Western Front, that original movie. I remember that. My mother wouldn’t let me go to the Frankenstein ones or Murder in the Wax Museum one but anyway that was great. It was great. Shirley Bradley: You had a lot of fun there. A lot of family time there. Marylyn Shadduck: Well, no. It was just us, just the schoolkids. Shirley Bradley: Just, oh, this was just – your parents didn’t... Marylyn Shadduck: This was just – my, my parents didn’t work at REO. My husband’s father when he first got out of WWII and came home, after WWI and came home, Andy Shadduck, he retired from the fire department as captain years later but the first job that he had he went to REO to work and this would have been like in the, like 1920 in there. And in 1922 when my husband was born, his mother entered him in a [chuckle] baby show and here’s the picture of all those mothers and the babies. There’s Dick’s m-, Dick and there’s his mother Genevieve and he won a prize. Shirley Bradley: Oh, wasn’t he adorable. Marylyn Shadduck: Wasn’t he cute? [chuckle] Shirley Bradley: His mother was pretty too. Marylyn Shadduck: Well, years later… Shirley Bradley: [chuckle] Look at this little girl down here. Marylyn Shadduck: Yeah, yeah. Shirley Bradley: She doesn’t want any part of it. Marylyn Shadduck: Just think, all those ladies are dead now. Shirley Bradley: I know. Marylyn Shadduck: Mother died at 103. Shirley Bradley: Is that so? Marylyn Shadduck: And this was when we were at a mother-daughter banquet. This was Mother. Shirley Bradley: Oh, this was your mother. Marylyn Shadduck: And our daughter and myself at a mother-daughter banquet… Shirley Bradley: Oh. Marylyn Shadduck: …when I was working at REO, for the Girls Club, you know, so [inaudible 4:30]. Shirley Bradley: I love the, uh, the hairdo. Marylyn Shadduck: Yeah. [chuckle] Shirley Bradley: Yeah. [inaudible 4:33] some are beehive. Marylyn Shadduck: Yeah, yeah. Shirley Bradley: And you had geraniums so this… Marylyn Shadduck: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: And fortified milk, uh, your daughter has a little jug of fortified milk in front of her. Marylyn Shadduck: Oh, does she? Shirley Bradley: [chuckle] Yes. Marylyn Shadduck: Well, why not? Shirley Bradley: [chuckle] Yes. Marylyn Shadduck: She didn’t drink coffee I’m sure. Shirley Bradley: No. Or tea. Marylyn Shadduck: Yeah. So that was one of the activities of the Girls Club, so that was our first family connection with, with REO. But like I wrote in the notes I gave to Jim Neal, that REO woods was right down there in my neighborhood when we were kids. Shirley Bradley: I didn’t know about that. Marylyn Shadduck: Well, you know, where the arm-, the, the Guard is now. Shirley Bradley: Mm-hm. Marylyn Shadduck: The National Guard, that was the extreme north end, but the woods where Washington Park is now was very dense and that was the REO proving grounds, test track for their trucks. There was a road that wound all through there and the trees were very dense. Shirley Bradley: Hm. Marylyn Shadduck: Full of all kinds of fascinating things, garter snakes and flowers and everything else. And we all, all the kids in that whole south end neighborhood played down there in the REO woods and it stretched from city limits which was there on Greenlawn where the Ingham medical facility is. That used to be the TB sanitarium and the city bus that was the extreme end of their route. Shirley Bradley: Oh. Marylyn Shadduck: It would come down Greenlawn and turn north on Washington and head back downtown and that was our main means of transportation in those days. Shirley Bradley: Oh sure. Marylyn Shadduck: Yeah, so. Shirley Bradley: [6:06] Uh, so you grew up in that area? Marylyn Shadduck: Oh yes. Shirley Bradley: And, uh, probably a lot of your friends’ parents may have worked for REO. Marylyn Shadduck: Oh, oh, well, um, everybody worked for REO in the old days. [chuckle] Shirley Bradley: Mm-hm. Marylyn Shadduck: When the Depression hit, my husband’s parents opened their home to good friends that were let go at REO and he had gone to work for the fire department by then so Andy had a job but the Richardsons moved in with them when he lost his job at REO. Shirley Bradley: Hm. Marylyn Shadduck: And, uh, those were tough years. Shirley Bradley: Oh, they were tough years. Yes, indeed. Marylyn Shadduck: So a lot of people… Shirley Bradley: A lot of people, oh, I know. Marylyn Shadduck: …have come and gone from REO but it’s always survived. The factory has always been there, you know. And the Clubhouse has always been there. Shirley Bradley: Until now. Marylyn Shadduck: Until now. Shirley Bradley: Yeah. Marylyn Shadduck: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: [6:53] When did you hire in to REO and how did you happen to go there? Marylyn Shadduck: Well, uh, first time I worked there it was war, it was the war. Shirley Bradley: Oh, you started during the war. Marylyn Shadduck: And, uh, I had been working at Oldsmobile in the office. That was the first job I had when I got out of business college, in the insurance office at Oldsmobile. And my husband was in the navy. He was a sailor and he was at sea most of three years. Shirley Bradley: Oh. Marylyn Shadduck: But he would, his ship would hit maybe San Francisco or maybe New York and if there was time, I could get out there and see him. Well, one time too many, I couldn’t get any more time off at Oldsmobile so I had to leave Oldsmobile. That would have been in 1944, I’d say. And, uh, I followed him to rest camp and then when he, when they hit a [inaudible 7:47] day, he was shipped right out again so I came home. And it’s not that easy to get back in to Oldsmobile. I mean, you… Shirley Bradley: [7:55] It wasn’t? Marylyn Shadduck: No, no. You, you either knew somebody or something to get in to Oldsmobile. But anyway, I could make more money in the factory at REO and I had a girlfriend who had gone to work there and I heard she was making $100 a week. I couldn’t believe it. Shirley Bradley: Oh, that must have seemed like a fortune. Marylyn Shadduck: They were, she was at the, out in the factory where they dipped packages in wax to ship’m overseas. Shirley Bradley: Hm. Marylyn Shadduck: And that’s what she did so I, I got a chance to go to work at, at REO but first we had to go downtown to Old Central and learn to run the metal lathes in Mr. Kieppe’s metal shop and so he [chuckle] I can’t tell you how many tools I had jammed. [chuckle] He must have, he must have been at his wits’ end. Anyway, then, then we learned to run the micrometers and so forth, gauges. Shirley Bradley: Oh. Marylyn Shadduck: And then they put me in the Navy Department, running gauges as inspector on the drill press line. We made fuses for depth bombs for the navy. It was in the Navy Department. I was 19. I was a war bride. We were married and my husband went into the service. I was 18 when I got married. Shirley Bradley: It sounds like a movie, doesn’t it? Marylyn Shadduck: Well. [chuckle] Shirley Bradley: It wasn’t easy. Marylyn Shadduck: It wasn’t. [chuckle] Shirley Bradley: It wasn’t easy… Marylyn Shadduck: No. Shirley Bradley: …with him away and you worried. Marylyn Shadduck: We survived. And so when the war ended in 1945, that day, everybody whooped and hollered and I just stood there and balled. I couldn’t believe it was over. Shirley Bradley: Oh. Marylyn Shadduck: And we were all sent home. Everybody in the factory was sent home. Shirley Bradley: Is that right? Marylyn Shadduck: We never went back. Nope, that was it. Shirley Bradley: Oh. Marylyn Shadduck: And the unemployment line stretched for blocks. Everybody was unemployed, you know. Shirley Bradley: Oh, I see. Marylyn Shadduck: So my husband had so many points being at sea duty for so long and being married and in, in, uh, theaters of war [inaudible 9:55] he got out in November of ’45, so I stayed home and had two children and I was home for 10 years and then I went back to work and I couldn’t get back in to Oldsmobile. Shirley Bradley: Still. Marylyn Shadduck: I went over and had an interview and saw my old boss and so forth. Tom Shields and all of them were very gracious but I never got a call back so I went to work at Motor Wheel and I survived there for about seven years, then the office unionized and I was bumped out of my job just like that. Shirley Bradley: Huh! Marylyn Shadduck: So they sent me over to Diamond REO, which was just REO then. I never missed a day’s work. I hired in as secretary to Arnold Schuppert in the Sales Engineering Department and, uh, we… Shirley Bradley: I’m sorry. [10:46] What did you say his name was? Marylyn Shadduck: Arnold Schuppert, S-c-h-u-p-p-e-r-t. Shirley Bradley: P-e-r-t. Marylyn Shadduck: He was in charge of Sales Engineering. Shirley Bradley: Okay. Marylyn Shadduck: And it was our job to publish the spec books that he, any truck that was built had certain specifications and they were all published in a specification book and it had to be updated and revised constantly. And there was no computer invented yet, so we would cut and paste and retype and, and the print shop was over in the Clubhouse downstairs… Shirley Bradley: Oh. Marylyn Shadduck: …downstairs in the Clubhouse, and there was a gal that was in charge of the print shop and they printed all the material that we used at REO. Shirley Bradley: I didn’t know that. Marylyn Shadduck: Yup. Shirley Bradley: That’s interesting. Marylyn Shadduck: And, uh, Ruth [inaudible 11:38] was on the switchboard. She was over at the Clubhouse. And can you imagine that? Having a switchboard operator to manage that whole place. Anyway, I was in Sales Engineering when Kennedy was assassinated. I can sure remember that. Well, in 1967, Mr. Schuppert was promoted to Vice President of Engineering and I moved over to the Engineering building with him and I was over there until 1970 and Mr. Adams was president and he lost his secretary. She quit, so Mr. Adams picked me to be his secretary and that’s how I ended up over in Mr. Adams’ office and I survived there until Mr. Cappaert cleaned house. Shirley Bradley: You, so you were there [inaudible 12:49] when things were bad. Marylyn Shadduck: Oh, was I ever. That’s when I worked so close with [inaudible 12:52]. He ran and fetched for me and we had – it was a busy office. In fact, it was so busy that Mr. Loudenslager gave me a help, Mary, and I can’t remember Mary’s last name. This gal right here. Shirley Bradley: It looks like you got some wonderful pictures there. Marylyn Shadduck: Quite a few. This is Mary right here. And so she came in and between the two of us we were getting the job done. But the day that it hit the fan, Mildred Johnson called me in and said she was terminating me and I said “Don’t you mean laying me off?” And she said “No, I’m terminating you and I’ll give you a month’s pay.” She says “Mr. Adams is out [inaudible 13:41] right now. Mr. Cappaert is firing him, so.” She says “You have no boss, so we’re letting you go but” she says, um, “when we do replace him, why you’ll have first opportunity to interview for it.” So I hung all that summer thinking I was going back, which, of course, I never was and they had no intention of. And she said “Just one thing, don’t tell Mary. I want to tell Mary myself that she’s done.” And she never did. She never did. Mary was kept and she went to work for this Stan Eaton who replaced Mr. Adams, but she didn’t last very long. He looked like Hugh Hefner. He was quite a nice looking fellow but he wanted a different type of person to be his secretary so he let Mary go, but she had enough time out in the plant that she survived for a while. Shirley Bradley: Hm. Marilyn Shadduck: But, uh… Shirley Bradley: Those were difficult days I’m sure. Marylyn Shadduck: That was it. That was devastating. It was, well, within a year or so, Diamond REO closed and everybody was out on their ear, so. Shirley Bradley: [14:51] Did you sense, well, of course, she, she called you in, but before that, did you sense that it was…? Marylyn Shadduck: No, see, it was, it was all in transition. REO merged with Diamond T and that meant Diamond and REO became Diamond REO. Well, then, White Motors owned Diamond REO and they sold it to Mr. Cappaert, F. L. Cappaert. And he was a very wealthy man. He had his own big BOAC jet plane that he traveled in and then he had the Gulfstream that he let Mr. Adams and the staff and different people. One of my duties for Mr. Adams was to keep track of that plane, where it was, and contact the pilots and keep track of where it was and where it was going and all that. Shirley Bradley: Oh really? Marylyn Shadduck: Oh yes. Anyway… Shirley Bradley: Hm, I suppose he kept it out at the Capital City Airport. Marylyn Shadduck: Uh, it was on the move almost all the time. Shirley Bradley: Oh, it was? Marylyn Shadduck: Yeah, almost always. Shirley Bradley: [15:54] He was from Mississippi or something, wasn’t he? Marylyn Shadduck: Yeah, he was. He started in mobile homes, Mag-, they were called Magnolia, something like that. He, he had mobile homes. That’s where he got his start and then he had this big Farmland, F. L. Cappaert Farmland Corporation, I guess he got from his initials. Shirley Bradley: Hm. Marylyn Shadduck: He was a big operator but he, everybody liked him. [Inaudible 16:20] shake your hand, you know, and, and, uh. Shirley Bradley: Oh really? Marylyn Shadduck: Oh yeah. And, uh. Shirley Bradley: So it was. Marylyn Shadduck: [Inaudible 16:27] a lot of stories there that I won’t get into, so. Shirley Bradley: Okay, uh, [16:32] so you didn’t have any other relatives that worked there? Marylyn Shadduck: No. Shirley Bradley: Okay. Marylyn Shadduck: No. Shirley Bradley: Um, and we’ve already talked about how you, what your jobs were when you started and some of the people you worked in, with, worked with. And you said your training they took you down to Old Central and showed you how to run the, the… Marylyn Shadduck: [laughter] And, uh, I kind of think Mr. Kieppe called my mother and said what are you doing letting your daughter work in the factory? Shirley Bradley: Oh, he did? Marylyn Shadduck: I’m, I’m pretty sure. And so they didn’t put me on the line. They put me in inspection and I think probably Mr. Kieppe had something to do with that. Shirley Bradley: How do you spell…? Marilyn Shadduck: I had so much steel in my hands when I was through working there that it took months and months for that, from running the gauges and… Shirley Bradley: Oh, for it to work out of your skin. Marylyn Shadduck: Mm-hm, yeah. Shirley Bradley: So it was like having steel slivers. Marylyn Shadduck: Oh yeah, yeah. My, my hand grew a whole glove size. Shirley Bradley: Did they? Is that right? They did? Marylyn Shadduck: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: [17:28] Did you have any protective gloves or anything? Marylyn Shadduck: You couldn’t. Shirley Bradley: You couldn’t. Marylyn Shadduck: Your, your – I had so many gauges on that fuse, I had a table probably 8 feet long with all my gauges and they’d bring the stock, you know, hot from the wash, you know, after they get through on the drill press. And I had one gauge after another to run and the faster I could work, the more the line got paid. Shirley Bradley: Oh! Marylyn Shadduck: They, they made piece rate but I had a flat. I think I made something like $65 a week, which was about twice what I could make in the office at Oldsmobile [chuckle] but they never let you slack up, not for a minute. If you had to go to the bathroom, why you had like 10 minutes and if you didn’t come back, somebody would find out where you were and what you were doing, [chuckle] so you earned your pay I’ll tell you. Shirley Bradley: I guess. Marylyn Shadduck: Our line was right behind where the fire station was at the corner of Baker there and, and Washington Avenue. Shirley Bradley: Oh yeah. Marylyn Shadduck: Near the fire station. Shirley Bradley: Mm-hm. Marylyn Shadduck: When we’d take our break, which was like a sandwich for 15 minutes or whatever it was, we went outdoors on benches right behind the fire station there. That was, that was where we were. And I never ventured very far in that place. I’d have gotten lost. I had no idea. That place went on and on. [chuckle] Shirley Bradley: Oh, it was huge. Marylyn Shadduck: It was huge. Shirley Bradley: It took up that whole… Marylyn Shadduck: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: …Cedar, Baker, Washington. Marylyn Shadduck: Yeah, it sure did. Shirley Bradley: All the way down to the tracks. Marylyn Shadduck: And cigarettes were a prime thing in those days, though I’ve never smoked but most everybody else did, so when they’d get a load of cigarettes, shop workers had a chance to buy’m so… Shirley Bradley: Oh. Marylyn Shadduck: …somebody pushed me in the line and I’d have to buy a [chuckle] carton of cigarettes for somebody. I wasn’t old enough to buy’m probably, but I was 19 then. Shirley Bradley: Oh. Marylyn Shadduck: That was funny. Shirley Bradley: [19:22] So they would, uh, bring a load of cigarettes in for the factory workers? Marylyn Shadduck: Oh sure. Just like servicemen got all the cigarettes they needed, you know. Shirley Bradley: Uh-huh. Marylyn Shadduck: But the rank and file of the population I don’t know how they, how, how those, how that managed. I don’t think you had stamps for those, food stamps you had but not… Shirley Bradley: No, I don’t think so but. Marylyn Shadduck: But it’s just, uh. Shirley Bradley: I think they were rationed in, uh, in this way. I think that the store would get so many and so each person was allowed to buy maybe one or two packs. Marylyn Shadduck: Whatever. Shirley Bradley: Whatever. Marylyn Shadduck: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: Something like that. My parents both smoked and they didn’t seem to have any shortage of it during the war so they must have had some way to get them. Marilyn Shadduck: They managed. Shirley Bradley: [19:59] How did, how would you spell Mr. Kieppe’s name? Marylyn Shadduck: Uh, K-i-e-p-p-e I, I think. Shirley Bradley: K-i-e-p-p-e. I almost had it right. Okay. Marylyn Shadduck: His family is all buried out there at North Cemetery. They were all from Holt, you see. Shirley Bradley: Oh really? Marylyn Shadduck: Oh yeah. Mother was in school with him. Shirley Bradley: Oh. Marilyn Shadduck: And his wife Edith and Dick Kieppe, their boy, went to Michigan State. I think he played football at Michigan State and Kathleen was their daughter. Shirley Bradley: Hm, hm. Marylyn Shadduck: They lived over there on Forest I think. Shirley Bradley: [20:31] What kind, what would you say about the working conditions when you were doing your work with the micrometers and…? Marylyn Shadduck: Well, they were pushing so hard for production and I didn’t know one factory from another but I’d been in the new Grand River plant and believe me, it was nothing like that. And they tried to get the gals to wear a cap or a hairnet, and like women are, they resisted. And one day a gal got scalped. I’ll never forget that. Her hair got caught in the drill press and you could hear her screaming from – that really shook me up. Shirley Bradley: Oh my. Marylyn Shadduck: So that brought out a few caps and hairnets after that. Shirley Bradley: I remember those. Mother had a cap ‘cause she worked there too. She worked out on the receiving dock I think, anyway, and it had a blue snood kind of thing. Marylyn Shadduck: Sure, yeah, yeah. Shirley Bradley: Remember snoods? Marylyn Shadduck: Yeah, right. Shirley Bradley: Um, let’s see here. Marylyn Shadduck: You know, about the last thing that happened to me there was when they had a picnic out to Fitzgerald Park and they were trying to get some girls to be in the beauty contest and it didn’t sound like a great idea to me. I mean, taking your clothes off and standing up in front of a bunch of people, you know. But they made us feel like it was our patriotic thing to do. Shirley Bradley: Oh. Marylyn Shadduck: They were going to have some boys from I think Percy Jones Hospital that were going to be the judges so they talked me into it and, my gosh, I won the contest. Shirley Bradley: I’ve seen the Xerox of it, but this is the… Marylyn Shadduck: And I think… Shirley Bradley: Oh, you were lovely. You really were. Marylyn Shadduck: [laughter] 19, huh. I think his name was Murphy, I think. Shirley Bradley: Murphy? Marylyn Shadduck: I think his last name was Murphy. Shirley Bradley: It looks like he’s enjoying pinning that banner on you. Marylyn Shadduck: Yeah. We actually had to go over to the clubhouse and get measured before they let us compete and I wasn’t prepared for that either. [laughter] Oh dear. Shirley Bradley: [22:35] Now who did the measuring? [chuckle] Marylyn Shadduck: Murphy. [laughter] I think [inaudible 22:38]. Shirley Bradley: Now how did he get that job? Marylyn Shadduck: I have no idea. Probably the whole thing was his idea. I don’t know, but it was a lot of fun. Shirley Bradley: Ain’t that funny. And this is you right here. Marylyn Shadduck: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: And all the, oh, there were a lot of contestants. Marylyn Shadduck: And bathing suits, you couldn’t buy bathing suits with rubber, you know, elastic in them anymore. This is just a fabric thing, you know. Shirley Bradley: So pretty. Marylyn Shadduck: Because rubber, everything like that was just all going into the war production. Shirley Bradley: Oh yes. It’s beautiful. Marylyn Shadduck: But I won a Hamilton watch and I gave it to my mother. She’d never had a watch and I was so proud to be able to do that. Shirley Bradley: Oh, you won a watch… Marylyn Shadduck: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: …for being Miss REO. Marylyn Shadduck: Yeah. That was my prize. Yup. That was… Shirley Bradley: Miss REO reigns at Gala Annual Picnic. Marylyn Shadduck: [chuckle] So that was just before the war ended. Shirley Bradley: Was it? Marylyn Shadduck: 1945, uh-huh. I gave, uh… Shirley Bradley: [chuckle] That must have been an exciting day. A lot of fun. Marylyn Shadduck: Well, it was, as I look back on it. I didn’t win anymore beauty contests so that was quite a highlight. Shirley Bradley: It says selecting Miss REO Motors proved to be the most exacting and exciting task of the day. [chuckle] And Mr. Murphy looked like it was. Marylyn Shadduck: The servicemen were sitting right down in the front row judging everybody. Shirley Bradley: Were they? Marylyn Shadduck: Yeah. They had a good day. Shirley Bradley: They must have had a good time. Miss REO Motors chosen after a lengthy study... [laughter] Marylyn Shadduck: Oh dear. Shirley Bradley: Oh, don’t you love it. Marylyn Shadduck: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: …is Marylyn Shadduck, lovely blonde with a healthy tan and next in line were [Rowena 24:17] Adams in the black suit. Marylyn received a handsome wristwatch while the other two girls received cocktail sets. Marylyn Shadduck: We were on the swing shift and so that’s how I was able to get a tan. We’d worked one month 12 to 8 and the next month 8 to 12 and the next month 4 to 12 and then we’d swing from – it was terrible. You’d just get your biological clock in tune to one set of hours and then you’d swing to the other set of hours. But I liked the one where you get out at midnight, you could still sleep in the dark, you know, and, and get up and I’d have time to be out in the sun. Shirley Bradley: Hm, and that’s how you got your tan. Marylyn Shadduck: That’s how I got my tan. Shirley Bradley: I was wondering when I read that, you know, when you had time. Marilyn Shadduck: Mm-hm. Shirley Bradley: Um, [25:07] can you recall any of the other people that you worked with on the line and then later in the office? Marylyn Shadduck: Well, Larry… Shirley Bradley: I guess we’ll start with the line. Marylyn Shadduck: Larry [Ducap 25:16] was second down the line of foremen. Earl, Earl [Chlore 25:23] was the foreman on our line and he drowned years and years and years ago and Larry [Ducap 25:29] was second under him as, as on our line and he moved in two doors down from us on Pleasant Grove Road years later and he’s gone now. Shirley Bradley: Oh. Marylyn Shadduck: And, uh… Shirley Bradley: [25:42] D-u-c-a-p you think? Something like that. Marylyn Shadduck: I – it was a French… Shirley Bradley: Oh, a French name. Okay. Marylyn Shadduck: D-u-c, I don’t, I can’t really remember. Shirley Bradley: Earl Core, C-o-r-e probably. Marylyn Shadduck: Uh, his last name I can’t remember if it was C-h-l-o-r-e. I can’t remember. Shirley Bradley: That’s all right. Marylyn Shadduck: But the other people I can’t remember their names. Shirley Bradley: Hm. Marylyn Shadduck: I can see them but I can’t remember their names. Shirley Bradley: Um, so then you worked back and forth and then you were in the office. Marylyn Shadduck: Uh, after the, after I was let go at REO from the office back in ’72 when Mr. Cappaert was there, I tried to get into Oldsmobile again and couldn’t. Shirley Bradley: Is that right? Marylyn Shadduck: Yup. Shirley Bradley: My gosh. Marylyn Shadduck: And, uh, well, the automotive business is up or down. They’re in austerity or they’re in great times. And when they’re in austerity, they start cutting heads. I know because I worked in the sales budget office at Oldsmobile and that was part of our job was head count for the whole marketing thing in our office. Shirley Bradley: Oh really? Marylyn Shadduck: I had to run, do to the organizational charts and all kinds of things and so you’d be given a head count and, and if you had to lose two people, you had to lose two people and that’s the way it is. And when they weren’t hiring, they weren’t hiring, so I just didn’t hit it right I guess. Shirley Bradley: You were in that slump period. Marylyn Shadduck: Yup. But I, I went to work for Manpower killing time trying to find a job and a friend of mine knew Bill White and asked him to do it for me and so I got a call and I got a job and that’s how I got in. The first time I went to work at Oldsmobile, I was just out of business college. It would have been 1943, and I had no idea that it was difficult. I’d always wanted to work at Oldsmobile. I just always did. My aunt worked there and I had an uncle who had worked there. Oldsmobile was to me the greatest place to be in the world, you know. And when I went to go there, Dr. Gunderson was the plant physician, George Gunderson. He was the plant physician and he was a very close personal friend of ours. He and his wife we called them Uncle Doc and Aunt Louise. Shirley Bradley: Hm. Marylyn Shadduck: So he put in a word for me and I had no idea that’s the reason I got that job. [laughter] I thought it was awfully nice of him, you know. And that’s why I, I just stepped right in. Isn’t that funny? I worked in the insurance office and that was in Building 28, which is where the cafeteria was. And the men that would come to the insurance office we had to ask their social security number because everybody had a set of books according to social security number for the factory men. Shirley Bradley: Oh Marylyn Shadduck: And we’d cover their families with insurance and so forth and so that’s when I learned my soc number because without exception they’d say “My soc number? What’s yours?” You know, like who would know that. Shirley Bradley: Mm-hm, mm-hm. Marylyn Shadduck: We were lucky if they even knew the names of their children much less, they usually know how many they had but some of them had trouble coming up with the kids’ names. It was funny. Shirley Bradley: Oh, that’s funny. Marylyn Shadduck: Yeah. But there were an awful lot of deaths. They were working terrible hours in the plant, 7 days a week, 10, 12 hours a day. Shirley Bradley: And the strain was… Marylyn Shadduck: And there were a lot of heart attacks, a lot of heart attacks. Shirley Bradley: And a lot of them, some of the men were older because the young ones were off serving… Marylyn Shadduck: That’s right. That’s right. Shirley Bradley: …in the army. Marylyn Shadduck: And women were taking jobs in the plant. Shirley Bradley: Mm-hm. Marilyn Shadduck: But they wouldn’t transfer anybody from the office out there. Shirley Bradley: No. They wouldn’t. Marylyn Shadduck: Uh-uh. But before I went to work in, uh, the insurance office, I was put in charge of issuing gasoline ration stamps and they’d give us a whole sheet of stamps and then you’d X out the ones that they weren’t entitled to ‘cause the guys that worked in the plant got priority on their gas rations. Shirley Bradley: They could get a couple gallons more a week or something. Marylyn Shadduck: Well, they’d get stamps for, toward gas. Shirley Bradley: Uh-huh. Marylyn Shadduck: You take so many stamps for so many gallons. Shirley Bradley: I didn’t know they did that at the factory. Marylyn Shadduck: Oh yes. And when my father-in-law found out I was crossing black X’s on gasoline stamps and not pocketing any, [chuckle] he couldn’t believe it. It never would have occurred to me. It never would have occurred to me. [laughter] Shirley Bradley: I supposed there could have been some of that going on someplace. Marylyn Shadduck: Could’ve been but I’m sure they were, it sure wasn’t risk, worth risking your job for. Shirley Bradley: Absolutely. Marylyn Shadduck: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: Absolutely. Marylyn Shadduck: Yeah. Shirley Bradley: Um, let’s see now. I had a question in mind. Hm, what was it? Oh gosh! It was a good question too. Marylyn Shadduck: What was it? Shirley Bradley: My memory is failing me. Marylyn Shadduck: I was trying to find an old picture I got of… Shirley Bradley: Oh, I think I was thinking of after REO closed and the doors were padlocked, a lot of those folks – you went to Oldsmobile eventually. [30:59] Do you suppose a lot of the others that you worked with personally may have ended up at Olds or? Marylyn Shadduck: I have – I, I don’t know because they were all office people. The executive staff was just laid out on the ear. I know Barry DeVine went to law school and started a class action lawsuit. I remember that. Shirley Bradley: Oh really? Marylyn Shadduck: We were all notified of that. He was on the staff. Shirley Bradley: A lot of the people, well, most everybody didn’t get anything. I mean, the pension fund had been raided [inaudible 31:31]. Marylyn Shadduck: It was, it was devastating. There were people who had been there for years and years and years. Of course, they had, they had unionized the office but I wasn’t in the union because I was a confidential secretary and, um, the time I had outside of that was union, would have been a union classification so I had enough time in to get a small pension, which I still get. But the people who had expected to get, what, $500 a month, that was pretty good money in those days. Shirley Bradley: Oh yes! Sure. Marylyn Shadduck: They had about the first case I think that went to the National Benefit Department that, that, that guarantees pensions now. Shirley Bradley: I see. Marylyn Shadduck: It’s in bad shape because there’s so many pensions they’ve had to step in and take over. Shirley Bradley: Hm. Marylyn Shadduck: Uh, so I don’t know what’s going to happen with that but REO was about one of the first cases where the, the company has to pay into this fund so that if this happens, the money is in the government to – but they have to take into consideration how many people are still alive, how many people, uh, and when and how much are they going to allocate because no new money is ever going to come in. Shirley Bradley: No. Marylyn Shadduck: And how long has it got to last and so forth. Shirley Bradley: Sure. Marylyn Shadduck: So everybody I’m sure took a big cut. It was devastating. Shirley Bradley: I wonder, I have heard stories where some people either didn’t get anything for a long time and then maybe it was something like $20 or $30 a month. Marylyn Shadduck: Sure. Shirley Bradley: I’ve also heard of some suicides when everything closed… Marylyn Shadduck: Oh. Shirley Bradley: …and there were no jobs. Marylyn Shadduck: Oh [inaudible 33:13]. Shirley Bradley: It was a terrible time. Marylyn Shadduck: It was, uh, people were… Shirley Bradley: I also heard, uh, I think it was Mr. Cataline that mentioned that there was a Swedish company that at one point toward the end was interested perhaps in building a new factory north of town and starting, you know, building the engines again and… Marylyn Shadduck: Well, there is a group that have a business that, that builds the – a fellow named Larry. They’ve been in the paper several times telling they, they build buses I think and one thing or another. They have quite a business there [inaudible 33:47]. Shirley Bradley: Oh, the Spartan Motors. Marylyn Shadduck: Right. Shirley Bradley: Yes, yes. Marylyn Shadduck: Those people came from REO. Shirley Bradley: Some of the men went, yeah, from REO. That’s true, yeah. Marylyn Shadduck: Mm-hm. Shirley Bradley: Yeah. Uh, and then there’s, uh, in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania they still build a big truck with like the Gold Comet engine. The big REO Comet I guess it’s called. But anyway, they still build some of the big REO over there, road trucks, commercial trucks. Marylyn Shadduck: Boy, those trucks were beautiful, I’ll tell you. Shirley Bradley: Were they? Marylyn Shadduck: We thought they were the Cadillac of trucks, I’ll tell you. They really were. Every one was designed for a person. I mean, you didn’t have dealerships just buying trucks to sell. If a man had a fleet of trucks and needed a replacement truck or whatever, he’d come in and they’d spec out a new truck and it would have to make a difference, you know, whether it was going to carry a big load of a cement mixer or whether it was going to go on a school bus or what it was. Shirley Bradley: Oh. Marylyn Shadduck: Everyone was figured and built for the person and when they’d come off the line, well, if the line ever went down, Mr. Adams had the siren [inaudible 34:45]. Shirley Bradley: Oh really? Marylyn Shadduck: And everybody in the world knew the line was down. And, and ain’t that funny? Shirley Bradley: [chuckle] And so I imagine they didn’t want that line going down very much. Marylyn Shadduck: Oh no, no. Shirley Bradley: Hm. That’s interesting, isn’t it? Almost custom-making a truck for a, for a buyer. Marylyn Shadduck: Absolutely, absolutely [inaudible 35:06]. Shirley Bradley: I bet that doesn’t happen at very many places. Marylyn Shadduck: I have old newspapers for Jim and it has a lot of pictures of trucks and different kinds. Shirley Bradley: [35:22] This is one of the publications that REO put out? Marylyn Shadduck: Mm-hm. Yeah. There’s pictures of all [inaudible 35:28]. Shirley Bradley: An in-house kind of… Marylyn Shadduck: Mm-hm. This Dorothy [Karens 35:35] was secretary to Hugh Clark. He was right – they were right next to the Sales Engineering office. They did orders and distributions. And Ron Nelson, he was my sister-in-law’s uncle. Shirley Bradley: [35:48] Who was that? Marylyn Shadduck: Ron Nelson. He was the plant maintenance man. Shirley Bradley: Hm. Marylyn Shadduck: And they’re just, all these trucks are just fabulous [inaudible 36:00]. Shirley Bradley: Marvelous you’ve been able to save some things. Marylyn Shadduck: Yeah. There’s a lot of personnel that, that I have known. I wish I could find this little picture I had of the girls. Shirley Bradley: Diamond T dealer meeting highly successful. Marylyn Shadduck: Here it is. Shirley Bradley: Three new models were unveiled to the dealer organization and White Motor Corporation president J. N. Bauman pledged vigorous support for Diamond T and the Lansing division, hm. Marylyn Shadduck: Boy, they used to give some really nice outings for these customers and dealers, whatever, that would come in. Mr. Collins was sales manager when I was in Sales Engineering and he had a home in Okemos, and he’d have these pool parties and invite these various customers, dealers, whatever they were and then he’d ask some of us girls to be hostesses and that was a big thing. That was a lot of fun. Shirley Bradley: Was it? Marylyn Shadduck: He had a beautiful home there in Okemos and he married this Kay Collins and she was a concert organist and she put on a concert in the Clubhouse at one time… Shirley Bradley: Hm. Marylyn Shadduck: …that the Girls Club sponsored and it was a real money-making thing for us. She was, she was a real performer. Shirley Bradley: Hm. Marylyn Shadduck: These are the girls when, when I went to work for Mr. Adams. I was replacing Alice and this, this gal worked for Clare Loudenslager and Phyllis Harkins was the receptionist. This is Carol [Andreoski 37:51]. Shirley Bradley: Carol Andrea? Marylyn Shadduck: [Andreoski 37:53]. Shirley Bradley: Oh, I guess I better write that down because whoever is going to transcribe this will not know. [chuckle] Marylyn Shadduck: And Alice Goodrich was leaving Mr. Adams’ office and I was replacing her. Shirley Bradley: And you were replacing her. Marylyn Shadduck: And Phyllis Harkins was just outside in the lobby. She had to cover my phone for me if I ever had to leave my desk. Shirley Bradley: Oh, I see. Marylyn Shadduck: I have no idea what became of Phyllis or Alice or Carol. Shirley Bradley: I was going to ask you if you’d had a chance to see some of the gals. [38:33] Are some of them still…? Marylyn Shadduck: Well, the only one that I keep in touch with is Ruby [Hurley 38:36]. She was in the Accounting office and she and her husband used to always go to the charity ball with my husband Dick and myself and we were such good friends. And eventually he died and Ruby moved up north. She’s got a place right, right at the foot of the Mackinac Bridge. Shirley Bradley: Oh really? Marylyn Shadduck: Her daughter has a farm up there and Ruby moved up there and I still am in touch with her at Christmas, but she’s the only one that I really – all the bouffant hairdos. Shirley Bradley: I was looking at that. Marylyn Shadduck: Ain’t that funny. Shirley Bradley: And, and the styles haven’t changed all that much, a little bit. Marylyn Shadduck: They come, they come and go, but. Shirley Bradley: Yeah, they do, don’t they? Marylyn Shadduck: But, you know, girls don’t have their hair done anymore. It just is straight and they have to stick it behind their ears so they can see out. Shirley Bradley: [chuckle] Um, looking back on the REO Motor Car Company, [39:36] any last thoughts or things I haven’t even thought to ask or something you’d like to mention? Marylyn Shadduck: Well, they, there were so many phases like when they had Duo-Therm division over there, the lawnmowers and the space heaters and all that and then they moved that to La Grange. Shirley Bradley: Oh. Marylyn Shadduck: They had, they had two sets of staff. They’d have a president at Duo-Therm and then another president at REO. I mean they had double and then, of course… Shirley Bradley: Oh. Marylyn Shadduck: …they had to eliminate all that at Duo-Therm and then they eventually moved it to La Grange. And I remember we bought several things that we got a discount on. We got a space heater for my uncle’s cottage. They had a small hot water heater that we used at our cottage that went underneath the sink, you know. Shirley Bradley: Mm-hm. Marylyn Shadduck: All kinds of things like that. Lawnmowers. They had playground equipment for kids. My aunt and uncle bought our kids a whole set of playground equipment, all bright painted blue and red and yellow, you know, metal swings and slides and stuff. All those things besides trucks… Shirley Bradley: Hm. Marylyn Shadduck: …came and went. Shirley Bradley: I knew about the lawnmowers, but I didn’t know about the space heaters and the… Marylyn Shadduck: Yup. Shirley Bradley: And they were built by the Duo-Therm part of the… Marylyn Shadduck: Duo-Therm. Mm-hm, yeah. Shirley Bradley: Oh. Marylyn Shadduck: I don’t know where the swings and slides came from. [laughter] That didn’t have much to do with anything, but they had them. Shirley Bradley: [41:12] So you think it was a good place to work? Marylyn Shadduck: Well, it was a great place for me because I was saving every dime I could get my hands on during the war so when Dick came home we’d have something to start with, you know. And I was living with my folks for a month and then I’d go live with his folks for a month. Shirley Bradley: Oh, is that right? Marylyn Shadduck: Take my, take my food stamps with me, right? Shirley Bradley: Ah. Marylyn Shadduck: Ration stamps and, um, by the time he got home, I had a pretty good nest egg saved up. And when our kids went to college, Terry worked two years, two summers. He worked out in the plant one summer and up on the drawing boards. He was an engineering student at Michigan State so he earned money there and then… Shirley Bradley: At REO? Marylyn Shadduck: Yeah. Out on the line and then the other summer… Shirley Bradley: Oh. Marylyn Shadduck: …on the boards and that’s where I was able to put, that was one of the big reasons I went to work was for college. Shirley Bradley: Mm-hm. Marylyn Shadduck: And then when our daughter started State, why she got a job, they had sent the government office over there to where the Duo-Therm had been at the corner of Mount Hope. They had moved the government offices from, from the Engineering building over there and she got a summer job in the office over there. So thanks to REO, we financed college pretty much and what... Shirley Bradley: And maybe your first home. You were able to save while your husband was away. Marylyn Shadduck: Well, that’s right. And so… Shirley Bradley: So those are good benefits, aren’t they? Marylyn Shadduck: Absolutely. Gee, we had health benefits. We had it all, you know. We… Shirley Bradley: [42:43] You did have good benefits? Marylyn Shadduck: Yeah. We didn’t make much money compared to what people make nowadays. But I can remember when I got hired at Diamond REO, the girl I was replacing had gone to work for that Con-Con, Constitutional Convention, where they were redoing Michigan’s constitution. Shirley Bradley: Oh yes. Marylyn Shadduck: And I heard she was going to make $600 a month. I couldn’t believe it. In those days, $400 was really good for a steno, you know, a secretary steno. Shirley Bradley: Is that right? Marylyn Shadduck: And uh, I heard she was going to make $600 a month. [laughter] Shirley Bradley: [43:20] But that work wasn’t permanent, was it? Wasn’t there …? Marylyn Shadduck: No, but almost all the girls got in with some senator or legislator… Shirley Bradley: Oh. Marylyn Shadduck: …and ended up working for… Shirley Bradley: Working for them. Marylyn Shadduck: …the government. Yeah. Shirley Bradley: And that was a good thing. Marylyn Shadduck: Sure, if they wanted to, you know. Shirley Bradley: Uh-huh. Marylyn Shadduck: If they wanted to. Shirley Bradley: Well, I certainly do thank you for taking time to talk to me today. I’ve got a feeling there’s thousands of stories that you have and some worth sharing and some that are private. [chuckle] Marylyn Shadduck: Well, as you get older, sometimes your memory plays tricks on you and w-, what you think you remember maybe wasn’t exactly the way it was. Shirley Bradley: [laughter] I see. Marylyn Shadduck: But… [chuckle] Shirley Bradley: I think you’ve done a marvelous job and you typed out really two bios. Well, I thank you very much, Marylyn. And this tape will be kept at the REO’s Museum. /mlc