Lyle Birchman discusses his career as a production worker and UAW member at the Fisher Body plant in Lansing, MI Jerri Smith: This is Jerri Smith and we’re doing a interview for the Fisher Body Historical Team. We’re at Local 602 Union Hall in the conference room and today we’re interviewing Lyle Birchman and the date is December 15, 2005. It is 12:48 and we’re going to go around the table and introduce everyone here and then we’ll start with Lyle’s interview. Marilyn Coulter: Marilyn Coulter. John Fedewa: John Fedewa. Doug Rademacher: Doug Rademacher. Cheryl McQuaid: Cheryl McQuaid Michael Fleming: Mike Fleming. Jerri Smith: [0:36] And Lyle, we’d like you to say your name and spell the last name. Lyle Birchman: Lyle Birchman, B-i-r-c-h-m-a-n. Jerri Smith: [0:47] And your address, please. Lyle Birchman: 14777 Cutler Road, Portland, Michigan. Jerri Smith: Okay. [0:53] And what we’d like to know, uh, are you married? Lyle Birchman: Yes. Jerri Smith: [0:59] Do you have children? Lyle Birchman: Three. Jerri Smith: Okay. [1:02] And what was your hire-in date at Fisher Body? Lyle Birchman: August 23, 1976. Jerri Smith: [1:09] And what department did you hire in at? Lyle Birchman: Trim. Jerri Smith: [1:12] Have you always stayed in Trim? Lyle Birchman: Hm, no. Jerri Smith: [1:17] What was your first job? Lyle Birchman: Installing center post trim on Delta 88s, 98s, and windshield post moldings on Toronados. Jerri Smith: Okay. [1:28] How long did you stay in Trim? Lyle Birchman: A number of years. Um, my wrist started going bad, so I transferred to QC, uh, and that still was out in the Trim Department working in the water test booth. Jerri Smith: Okay. [1:42] And how long did you stay on that job? Lyle Birchman: Probably, uh, up until the late 80s. Cheryl McQuaid: Cheryl McQuaid. [1:55] Lyle, when you first walked into the plant, how did you feel about walking into the factory? What did you think? Lyle Birchman: Oh, I was wide-eyed. It was, uh, nothing I had ever experienced before. Nowadays, folks go through like a week of orientation. We went through our interview process and they told you you had the job, you came in and, uh, there was a brief, you know, uh, uh, I remember laughing about this. Uh, the fellow that did the orientation referred to it as a career and I never intended to work here any longer than till the next layoff then I was going to go on and do somethin’ else and here I am almost 30 years later. But I remember at that point I, I, I kinda chuckled, I thought I’m not gonna stay here very long. [chuckling] And, and th-, it was funny, uh, I even wrote this one down. Uh, they, they herded us like cattle almost. They took us out and the bosses would point to “I’ll take that one, that one, and that one.” They didn’t even ask you your name or anything and, and then after they took you away they asked you your name and, uh, uh, they assigned me to a job and I learned it. And I remember it was being August it was so hot. And, you know, I’m just a kid right outta high school and it was so hot and I had no idea what was going on in that plant and I, I even asked the boss, I said, “Do they have to heat this place in the summer or I mean in the wintertime?” ‘Cause of course we all know they had to but, uh, yeah, I remember that. Cheryl McQuaid: [3:30] Why did you hire? Why did – whatever made you put your application in at Fisher Body? Lyle Birchman: I wanted to make money. They were paying $7 an hour, yeah. Marilyn Coulter: Lyle, Marilyn Coulter. Just so that they know, [3:46] how tall are you? Lyle Birchman: Uh, 6’ 5”. Marilyn Coulter: [3:49] And how did that affect you when you came in here [inaudible 3:53] insofar as working on the line? Lyle Birchman: Well, I was thankful that I had that center post trim job and that I could stand up and from my height the, the leverage was very – I was well suited for that job. I, I, I like to think maybe the boss actually put me there out of the goodness of his heart. I have no idea, um, but that worked out real well. Getting in the Toronados was kinda tough, uh, ‘cause you had to lean in there and take another, uh, you had to take a drill and drill the hole out. They didn’t have anything like self-tapping screws in those days, so you had to lean in there, right underneath it and because I am tall, I was right up, up on f-, right up to that windshield post and drill the hole and then drive the screw and then get back out of the car. And I remember this older fellow, heck, he was old, he, uh, coached me that day. I was, I, I’d get in the car and sit down and try and pry that on and he said, “Son, you always want to try to stand up while you do this. It’ll be quicker and easier for you.” He was right in the end. Yes, sir? Michael Fleming: Mike Fleming. [5:00] Who was your first foreman at [coughing] the Trim floor and how was he to work for? Lyle Birchman: Well, I worked for, uh, [Jim Marshall 5:06] and [Tex Ross 5:07]. You know, they would rotate back and forth and they were both really good guys. They were the best, never bothered you. Um, I will make a comment though. In, in, in those days, uh, the term ergonomics was relatively unknown and one of the things they wanted us to do was fit these plastic trim pieces. Um, I did fail to mention that on the two-doors I had to install the quarter panel trim and that kinda led to my wrist [coughing] screwin’ up, uh, over the years. You literally had to pound that in and catch it on some clips that were, uh, hidden. And being that the customer sees this stuff, you had to make it look as nice as possible. So that was an issue and I complained about it after, well, this was quite some time later, maybe a year or two later, um, my wrist started to really [throat clearing] suffer from that and I was given this ridiculous plastic h-, uh, headed hammer that all it was going to do was damage the part. Uh, you know, Jim looked at me and I looked at him and, [coughing] and he was such a nice guy. I just took it and kept going back to doin’ the job. But to this day, you know, that wrist clicks. You all hear that? Michael Fleming: Lyle… Female: Mm-hm. Michael Fleming: …you said that you were only going to work here until your next layoff. Lyle Birchman: Yep. Michael Fleming: [6:33] Were, were you ever in any layoffs? Lyle Birchman: Uh, only when the entire plant shut down. Michael Fleming: [6:40] Was that for any amount of time? Lyle Birchman: Well, you know, you had, uh, different shutdowns for renovations, you know, when they added new equipment. I think back in ’99 we had, uh, some downtime. But as far as, uh, layoff according to seniority due to tough times, it never happened to me, never, in all these years. I, I, I guess the reason why is back in ’73 all the folks that hired in then were laid off and they were off for so long, so you’ll see on the seniority list there’s a big jump. You either have ‘70 or ‘71 seniority and then it jumps to ’76, so there had been, uh, quite a stretch of time [coughing] before anybody was hired into the plant and this group of people with ’76 seniority, we basically enjoyed, uh, a tremendous amount of opportunity as far as putting in for jobs and not going through the layoffs. Uh, however, some of those folks did get laid off. I know in ’78 they went to one shift I believe and I still hung in there on that. I stayed on days, uh, almost 90 days and then I went to nights. Marilyn Coulter: So – Marilyn Coulter. [7:54] Lyle, when you came in, you’re 6’ 5”, you come into the plant, were there any kind of new-hire initiations or pranks that were played on you when you first came in? Lyle Birchman: Uh, not that I want to really go into here. [laughter] Uh, at the 90th day but, um, I’m not going to go into that. Marilyn Coulter: You don’t want to share that one? Lyle Birchman: No. We’ll leave that one out. Yeah. Michael Fleming: Mike Fleming. [8:19] Lyle, how about strikes? Have you ever been in any strikes that they’ve had through, uh…? Lyle Birchman: Well, there was that one where, uh, it was pretty exciting. They handed [throat clearing] out the signs. And I forget the date. It was just a few years back. We all went out and with our picket signs right out the front door there and that was kind of cool. It didn’t last very long. That, that’s good. Michael Fleming: [8:41] Do you know – do you remember what it might have been for? Lyle Birchman: No. [chuckling] I really don’t. Uh, it was – uh, I think they t-, it was about work role or safety. They, they – but it had something to do with something else and, dang, I’m a little embarrassed [inaudible 9:00]. Michael Fleming: [9:00] Do you have any family members that work here, Lyle? Lyle Birchman: No. Um, I did have a family member that worked here. I met my wife here. Michael Fleming: Really? Lyle Birchman: Yeah. She hired in, uh, and we were married back in 1980 and she worked for a while and then our kids started coming along. And, and I asked her, I said, “Look, uh, you were working here before you ever met me and if you want [coughing] to keep workin’, we’ll work it out.” And, you know, many people do that very successfully; however, uh, you know, we did have a couple years where we didn’t have any kids and we were able to save some money and get ahead and, um, I told her, I said, “You know, it’s your call. If you want to stay home with the kids, I’m cool with that.” So she did but this is where we met. We met up in 3X up in the Trim Department. Michael Fleming: [Inaudible 9:48]. Lyle Birchman: Mm-hm. Michael Fleming: So… Lyle Birchman: Little Fisher Body romance. Michael Fleming: [9:52] Did she retire, Lyle? Did she just leave of absence, quit? What did she do? Lyle Birchman: Oh gee, she just quit. Michael Fleming: Just quit. Lyle Birchman: Yeah. Right after our, our daughter Monica Lynn was born. Michael Fleming: [10:02] How, how long had she worked here p-, prior to quitting? Lyle Birchman: She hired in in ’78. Michael Fleming: ’78. Lyle Birchman: And, um, she quit in late ’82, about 4 years, [coughing] yeah. Yeah, Cheryl? Cheryl McQuaid: Cheryl McQuaid. Lyle, you said you met your wife at Fisher Body. Lyle Birchman: Mm-hm. Cheryl McQuaid: [10:22] Did you experience any problems with dating her with just being in the plant all day together? Lyle Birchman: Well, fortunately, uh, soon after we were married her, uh, her wiring job that she did got moved clear to the [chuckling] other end of the plant, so we weren’t on top of each other all day long, you know. And we’d drive in together and, uh, she had her time and I had mine and so that, that was probably pretty good but we’re still married so [knocking] it’s workin’ out. It’s been, uh, it’s been 25 years now. Michael Fleming: Great. Cheryl McQuaid: [10:59] When you went to the second shift you stayed on the center pillar job? Lyle Birchman: Yeah. Cheryl McQuaid: Okay. Lyle Birchman: Probably shouldn’t have stayed on that one job that many years but it was a, it was a really good job and I was tall and if – I, I know everybody here is pretty familiar with Trim operations and you know the alternatives that were available to a tall guy so, uh, [chuckling] you know. Marilyn, you brought up a very good point, ergonomically speaking there’s no way I could have done that headliner job. Remember that old headliner job where you had to climb in? Impossible. So I kinda stayed where I could relatively do the job without getting hurt. Marilyn Coulter: So Lyle – Marilyn Coulter. [11:41] Were you from Portland when you came to work here in L-, in Lansing? Lyle Birchman: Uh, I lived not too far from there. I lived in Wacousta. [throat clearing] Marilyn Coulter: Wacousta. [11:50] Coming from Wacousta and coming into Lansing, uh, what was that like for you? Were there any kind of big surprises? Anything that was different that you were unaccustomed to when you came in? Lyle Birchman: Probably the only thing that I found really weird is these guys goosing each other. To this day I just think it’s ridiculous behavior. It’s something I don’t agree with and that was probably the only thing that bothered me. As far as Lansing, I had the good pleasure of selling Kirby vacuum cleaners while in high school, so I drove all around Lansing anyhow and met people of every walk of like. In fact, I was able to sell a Kew-, a few Kirby vacuum cleaners that first year to some coworkers at an excellent price I might add. [laughter] I gave’m some great deals and, uh… [coughing] Marilyn Coulter: [12:42] For those people who like yourself had never been around that, can you please explain to people with goosing is? Lyle Birchman: Oh. Well, you know, guys grabbing each other’s behinds or fronts. It was pretty – uh, to this day I just, I don’t go along with that and I don’t think that’s one of the reasons why, you know – Lansing has got a, a great culture as far as building quality cars and something we’re all very proud of and that has no bearing on it at all. It’s just a limited few and I happened to be working with them at the time. Marilyn Coulter: So those are just some of the pranks [chuckling] that some people did do. Lyle Birchman: Oh yeah. I had a guy come up to me with a broom, ol’ [Harvey 13:20] there and man he hurt me, [throat clearing] you know. He, he was terrified, you know. [laughter] No, it wasn’t like you think, Doug, but he just came up and poked me and, uh, dang, I went right to the floor. If I could have got up, I probably would’ve went into him, you know. It hurt. Cheryl McQuaid: Cheryl McQuaid. [13:40] How old were you, Lyle, when you hired in? [clicking] Lyle Birchman: Uh, I was 18 years old, been outta high school just a couple months. Cheryl McQuaid: [13:49] And what was – in the early years, what were, um, some of your typical lunch, what did you do for lunch? Lyle Birchman: Eat. [chuckle] I, uh, sometimes… Cheryl McQuaid: [13:59] Did you pack a lunch? Lyle Birchman: I know, uh, uh, that first couple years, you know, I just ate lunch. But there was one summer where I would, uh, I was living with a bunch of buddies and I had a big garden and I’d bring all this homegrown food in. And my dear friend Marilyn Coulter one day she said, “Lyle, what you got there?” And, uh, I said, “Well, I have some carrots.” And I had just yanked’m outta the ground, threw’m in a bag. I didn’t even bother cleaning’m up and she was kinda horrified that I had this dirty carrots that, uh, I wasn’t even gonna, you know, wash. I said, “Oh, you just wipe the dirt off and eat’m.” But uh, lunchbreak, uh, you know, I had a lot of different things going on. [throat clearing] Michael Fleming: Mike Fleming. [14:48] Lyle, uh, so [throat clearing] where, where did you go after you, you left Trim, you went to what department? Lyle Birchman: Water Test. Female: QC. Michael Fleming: In Trim? Lyle Birchman: In Quality Control. Michael Fleming: [15:01] In Trim? Lyle Birchman: It was – yeah. The, the water test booth was located in the Trim Department. Michael Fleming: [15:05] Uh, did you all, did you spend the rest of your time in Trim? Where did you end up eventually? Did you move someplace? Lyle Birchman: The body shop. Michael Fleming: The body shop. [15:12] Talk about the body shop. How did you like that? What, what was going on down there? Lyle Birchman: I thought the body shop was by far the, uh, the most interesting experience as far as working, uh, in the manufacturing side of it all. Um, I still to this day am just flat out amazed at the technology that we employ. Michael Fleming: [15:32] So what did you do in the body shop in Quality Control? Lyle Birchman: Weld integrity. Michael Fleming: [15:36] What’s that? Lyle Birchman: Can I share a little bit about that with you? Michael Fleming: Sure. Lyle Birchman: Okay. Um, [throat clearing] a lot of folks in Trim were rather intimidated by the body shop. And what happened is, um, in a cutback, my weld – my Water Test [throat clearing] position was gradually eliminated and I ended up being forced back to, um, the production line and I worked for a while working in the glass area, setting glass. I’ll get to Body in just a second, okay? And, uh, I worked there for a while and ended up setting windshields, back windows, and being a relief person out there. And one day they came around and, uh, boy I’m gonna, I’m goin’ way out here but I, I’ll bring it on back, okay? Um, they, they were talking about these nontraditional jobs that were gonna open up and one of’m was a, a plant tour guide and I didn’t think I’d [throat clearing] get it because I had interviewed for other jobs as well. And they, uh, asked me, “Why do you think we should give plant tours?” And I’m convinced that’s probably the reason why they, uh, asked me to do it, uh, I just without mi-, missing a beat, “To sell cars.” So I did tours for a while but that was an on-again, off-again thing and I’d always have to go back to Production. Uh, sometimes I was installing door panels or sometimes I was setting glass or whatever. And one day they came up to me and said, uh, “Th-, there’s been an opening. You have return rights back to Quality Control, unfortunately it’s out in the body shop.” Well, I’d driven that tr-, tour train all over the plant and I’ll never forget this one fellow, uh, out in the, out in the body shop, he’d always wave at us but some days he wouldn’t wave and I, you know, couldn’t figure it out until I realized he had mastered the art of sitting there looking like he was doin’ something and he was sleeping with sunglasses on and, uh, I, I realized what job he was on. Well, they told me what job it was and, uh, I, I said yeah, I’d be, you know, more than willing. It was Weld Integrity. Not that everybody sat-, slept on Weld Integrity. It was a very high-stress job. However, uh, a funny story, [throat clearing] uh, a number of my Water Test coworkers had been given that same offer. They, ultimately, uh, the – to go back a step or two, they, they eliminated the Water Test Department completely, so we all were dispersed. They, they transferred that over to the chassis plant. So these guys from Trim, they washed out really quickly, so when I showed up the, uh, he was an old stool-, uh, old school boss and, uh, [Dan Wood 18:26], he, uh, he did not want to see my face. All he knew that I was from Trim and that I would probably wash out just like all the other guys and they got all intimidated from the noise, the smoke, and everything in the body shop. Well, I knew better. I did tours out through there and I knew there was some great opportunities and Weld Integrity was one of’m. And I looked him right in the eye and I told him, I said, “Dan, I will do you the best job possible and you’re going to be happy with me.” And I think if you asked him today, he probably would say yeah. And I did that job off and on for 10, 12 years. Michael Fleming: So Dan Wood had a brother [throat clearing] I think. [19:07] Did you know his brother? Lyle Birchman: Yeah, I did. Michael Fleming: [Inaudible 19:08]. Lyle Birchman: I, I never really got to know him that well other than “Hey, how you doin’?” Michael Fleming: [19:12] Um, here’s a question, most folks didn’t seem to get along with Dan or his brother Bert. You, you got along with them pretty well then, huh? Lyle Birchman: Let me ask you, how, how did you get along with them, all right? Michael Fleming: Excellently. Lyle Birchman: Same here. Michael Fleming: I, I welded. Dan would ask for me to come weld for him as a matter of fact. When, when you as a Weld Integrity individual, you would be a dog catcher, whatever you’d be, if you had welds missing… Lyle Birchman: Yep. Michael Fleming: …I’d be the guy to come get’m. So yeah, we got along well. [throat clearing] Lyle Birchman: And I did that dog catcher job off and on for years and years. And, uh, yeah, it’s important to have someone like you that can step right up and, uh, make, make it happen. Back to Dan, yeah, you know, he had a way of rufflin’ people’s feathers and there was a time or two that he kinda disappointed me but all in all we got along just fine. Michael Fleming: One more thing while you’re on it. There was a specific weld that was missed that was cause for darn near discharge. You had government welds or something like that that if you missed those… Lyle Birchman: Yeah. Michael Fleming: [20:07] Can you talk about that? What, what happened there with those situations? [throat clearing] Lyle Birchman: Well, MVSS welds th-, that was a really, really critical thing. You had to make sure that those welds were in the right location and that they were holding. And over the years, uh, I don’t know if you want me to elaborate on that. Marilyn Coulter: [20:26] Can you tell us what MVSS [inaudible 20:27]? Lyle Birchman: Uh, Motor. Jerri Smith: [20:28] And Integrity Weld and [throat clearing] the dog thing what you said. Marilyn Coulter: [20:32] What, what does MVSS mean first? Lyle Birchman: Oh yeah. Um, Motor Vehicle Safety Standard and the, uh, Weld Integrity it’s, it’s a, a process of monitoring weld quality. There’s two things that we would do. We would take a hammer and chisel and place the chisel between the welds and drive, uh, hit it with a hammer and, and drive that in between so it forced the metal and that’s a, kind of a crude way of doin’ it but it’s still a very effective way of monitoring weld quality. Uh, the other thing we would do is take a perfectly good car off the car track line, which is, uh, an assembly line where they weld the sides of the car to, and the roof of the car and the floor pan together and they take that car and measure every weld and cut all the welds apart and peel them back. Remember the old style tuna fish cans? Um, the guys they called’m can openers. Basically it was like a T wrench you’d lock on to the metal [throat clearing] and spin that metal off and peel that metal away and in that manner we would, uh, monitor the weld quality. The dog catcher, uh, that Mike was referring to, what the dog catcher, uh, position was is if you’re under, uh, out working in the underbody or on the car track line or in the side frame line and you had a weld come up bad, it was the dog catcher’s responsibility the, as those cars made it to the final body shop line, they would continually check until those bad welds came and then we would have a repair person repair those welds right on the line, so that’s what the dog catcher would do. Yes? Marilyn Coulter: Um, Lyle. Marilyn Coulter. Actually, I want to come out of the body shop and go back to Trim when you first came in. Lyle Birchman: Sure. Marilyn Coulter: [22:20] And, um, you did the jobs and I wanted to know what type, what was the environment in Trim like? What types of things – now you were on days for 90 days, correct? Lyle Birchman: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: [22:31] And you were on nights for how long? In – well, how long [coughing] were you in Trim after…? Lyle Birchman: Fifteen years. [chuckling] Marilyn Coulter: [Inaudible 22:36] [coughing] 15 years. [22:37] In that 15 years, can you tell me what working in the trim shop was like? What types of things did you do for lunch? What types of things, did you guys do things special for holidays? Were there any special types of things that you did to pass the time? Lyle Birchman: Um, I know for a while there, um, we would play chess and, you know, you’d work [inaudible 23:06] and make a move and it took all day to do it but it, it, it at least keep your mind functioning. Playing a little harmonica, I’d do that too in between breaks and go down in the stairwell where it would echo so well. To this day, I still love parking ramps, uh, stairwells where you get a great echo. I still play it today. And funny story, uh, this one boss I had, I was comin’ out on break and she saw me comin’ up out of the stairway and she assumed I’d been in there [coughing] smoking or drinking and she wanted to burn me for it but I, I tried and tried to explain to her that well, [throat clearing] it echoed so well, I was practicing my harmonica in there. Uh, one of the things, uh, that I remember about Trim is that I, I did like the fact that you could, uh, up in 3X there you could look out the window and I used to joke that I had a office with a view. Uh, the, the lower row of windows were clear and then the upper ones were opaque. Uh, over the years one had been broken and they replaced it with a clear plane of glass. Standing at my bench I could stand right there and see the Capital Dome illuminated in the night sky, uh, so that’s why I joked I had a office with a view. Um, one of the, there was a couple things that I thought was just awful. Um, the loud wheels on the, on the carts and what I guess was the most frustrating part was the guys on Material at that time had time to go slow and they had a total disregard for the health and wellbeing of their fellow workers. They would roar by there and it was deafening and that continued for years. I, I used, I had earmuffs that I’d try and put’m on when the, when they came by. But that, I always thought that was rather insulting that some – I guess in life you’re gonna run into people who have a selfish attitude and that’s kind of unfortunate for the rest of us. Um, I remember another guy, not to beat up our friends on Material ‘cause I have a tremendous amount of respect for them but I remember, uh, an, an episode, it’s always stuck in my head, this old guy named Sarge and he had to deliver these, uh, upper rails. You know, as years went by, my job changed and we used to refer to it as rails, a trim piece that went along the headliner and the door opening and would attach to the windshield post molding trim piece. And he would, uh, sit there on his fork truck and he would, he insisted that he could only deliver these to one station, so I would have to in between doin’ the job on the line, because I was young I would have to go get that other box from another location and bring it down and I, I always thought that was just the most appalling thing and the boss never did anything about it. It was just kinda one of those things where, uh, I’ve never forgotten. Marilyn Coulter: Um… Lyle Birchman: But it was always nice and for the most part quiet. You work out in the body shop you, you plan on wearing earplugs the whole time. Marilyn Coulter: [26:22] So while you were working in Trim for those 15 years, did you, um, develop any, any other lasting friendships outside of your wife that you, that…? Lyle Birchman: Oh, lots of friends. Marilyn Coulter: …that extended outside the workplace? Lyle Birchman: Yeah. Lots of people everywhere, I mean to this day. You know, that’s one of the nice things. Um, I think that’s one of the reasons why General Motors has built two plants in Lansing is, uh, just excellent people. Please don’t get me wrong on those two instances of selfishness [coughing] ‘cause for the most part everybody was the most giving, friendly people you could ever meet. And I’ve always appreciated that fact that, you know, Lansing for the most part is a small town. You can’t go to the lumberyard or a grocery store or a mall or, you know, half the time you’re going to run into somebody you know and that’s kinda nice about Lansing. It’s big enough where there’s a lotta neat stuff but small enough where you still, it’s like a small town. Comparing to metro areas, it is a small town. Uh, want me to go in a little bit of Water Test on that Trim stuff? Marilyn Coulter: Um, if you’d like, please. Lyle Birchman: Uh, we used to, uh, water test the cars. They’d go through a four-minute spray booth and they would put chemicals in the, the water so it would react to a black light. So you had this two-bay station. A bay is, uh, the length of a car. So you had two lengths of a car that was a, a booth. It was all painted black and you’d use these black lights and you’d shine it in there and the water would actually glow so you could determine where you had a water leak. Our job was to monitor the water leaks in the car and if there was no leaks in the car, well, that was good. You did every fourth car and so you, you were able to do your job and if you did have leaks then you, that’s why you did every fourth car. Uh, a, a year or so later they moved it to every third car and then every other car as the, the quality, uh, or the leak issues went away. But one of the things that, um, always concerned me was the fact that, uh, these chemicals, this water is drippin’ on you. You lean in the car and it drips on you and you just had to [coughing] wonder, you know, what are the long-term health effects? And then on Monday mornings, the booth would stink to high heaven because you had some bacteria that was thriving in that water. So on top of the dye that they would put in the water, they had all these bacteria sites that they would add too. It was a real witch’s brew of some really bad stuff and it always ate at me that I’m thinkin’, you know, I hope I don’t die from this. Pr-, probably [throat clearing], uh, one of the more appalling things, uh, about Water Test was the fact that, uh, after you made a repair, some of the sealer was, uh, clear, some of it was a black gooey stuff, some of it was urethane and if you got this on the, the car, you, you were expected to clean it up. So they had these cans of oleum and cotton and you’d just reach over and plunge that cotton in there and clean it up. Well, years later, uh, thanks to the UAW, uh, prompting the government to, uh, encourage safe use of some of these chemicals, they told me that I might as well have been drinking that oleum because it absorbs right through your skin and it harms your liver, so hopefully the old liver will last the rest of my life but, uh, I think of the years where it was a known issue and it had, was not addressed. And even to this day I still see people on the outside in various walks of life that think nothing of cleaning up their hands in gasoline or – and for that I’m grateful that I was at least instructed at that early point ‘cause there’s folks that have been doin’ it all their lives and then when they develop cancer in their 60s they wonder how they got it, [throat clearing] well. Yes, sir? Michael Fleming: Uh, Mike Fleming. [30:24] So that, that you’re talkin’ about led to what we have as the, um, the MSDS, Material Safety Data Sheets, which could you talk about that? Do you know [inaudible 30:35]? Lyle Birchman: Well, other than what you just said there. Um, and I thought it was a, a, a great thing and, you know, one of the things that I’m very grateful is, uh, the efforts of the UAW to bring that sort of safety to it. Uh, ergonomics, you know, you walk through the Trim Department, you have ramps, you have areas where the product is elevated, this is all in an effort to, uh, encourage better production. It’s a twofold thing. You get better quality and people [throat clearing] don’t get hurt. Uh, it’s rather troubling that we have Republican lawmakers today that are trying to roll back some of this and it’s very appalling [throat clearing] that George Bush one of the first things he did upon taking office was to weaken ergonomic standards on an nationwide basis. This is coming from a man who, uh, well, during a photo op for the post Katrina disaster he was seen, uh, I saw him on TV attempting to drive a nail in a Habitat for Humanity house and the guy held the hammer like a big sissy. He was choked up on it. He was hittin’ it like a little, little kid. It probably took him 12 hits to drive a 8#, uh, #8 nail into a piece of OSB. And so the, the height of hypocrisy comin’ from the leadership of our country as regard to [throat clearing] working people, this is a man that never worked a day in his life, can’t even drive a nail for cryin’ out loud yet. So enough of that but, uh, talkin’ about ergonomics, I’m very thankful for the progressive approach that ergonomics [coughing] has been dealt with in, in the plant. Marilyn Coulter: Lyle, um, question to you. Marilyn Coulter. Um, we had the ergonomics you talked about and the safety standards and then you also said that you had a nontraditional job of being a guide. Um, during your time here, we had a number of different training type programs and different programs that allowed the employees to get involved. [32:34] Um, can you say how and when you got involved in those types of programs? Lyle Birchman: Well, um, they, they used to call’m Employee Participation Groups and I was workin’ in Water Test at the time and none of the old guys wanted to have anything to do with this thing. They’re just trottin’ out a new program and, uh, I thought, well, I’ll do it. So I was the, the EPG leader and, uh, I actually was sent away for a week for a training seminar. It was great. They taught you communication skills and, you know, I came away with a better understanding. Of course, it has to be a two-way thing and over the years I think every one of us has grappled with the one-way type of communication. They trot out a program and say it’s gonna work and then they never held up that end of it. Uh, I think over the years that’s gotten better. I know it has. Marilyn Coulter: [33:28] Do you feel that these programs have helped to make Lansing the Capital of Quality? Lyle Birchman: Oh yeah. Yeah. One of the programs I had a [throat clearing] tremendous amount of respect for is the Suggestion Plan. You know, I’m a firm believer in, um, incentives. And out, out in Weld Integrity, I, once I found out that they’ll actually pay you to come up with ideas, well, I was looking at everything and I came up with all sorts of ideas, everything from safety to weld positions, you know, welds that we didn’t really need and welds that should be moved or eliminated and it was fascinating. Michael Fleming: Mike Fleming. [34:12] Due to some of the ideas you come, came up with, did your suggestions fly? Did you get… Lyle Birchman: Oh yeah. Michael Fleming: …compensated? Lyle Birchman: Uh, I remember, well, there’s a number of safety ideas that I came up with. Uh, out in the body shop, it’s, it’s really a different world and I guess that’s why those guys washed up, uh, when they came out to Weld Integrity there. Uh, it’s dangerous [throat clearing] if you don’t know what you’re doin’. You know, you have robots, uh, they’re protected by three different modes of protection though, you have pressure sensitive mats, you have light screen technology where if you break that light screen, a beam of light is reflected around, uh, a given area, it automatically shuts the system down, and the most obvious would be fencing but [coughing] nonetheless there’s still a lot of opportunities to get hurt. Uh, one of which is I have about a 2 inch scar on my wrist and then there’s about a 1 ½ inch scar right next to it. It almost looks like an anchor doesn’t it? Um, I was on my tour guide job at the time and one of my friends from high school yelled over to me to come back after I got done with my tour, so I went out there and there was water on the floor. You know, they were doin’ what’s called wet deck sanding. They were doin’ some light sanding and the problem was is there was oil mixed with that water. It’s a very slippery [throat clearing] surface and there was really no notice given, no yellow paint on the floor warning you, there was no fencing, no anything. Here I am unfamiliar with the area, I slipped and I went to catch myself and I caught my wrist on that metal flange that you appl-, you install the rubber gasket around your trunk… Marilyn Coulter: [Inaudible 36:04]. Lyle Birchman: …on every vehicle but out in the body shop that wasn’t there so it ripped me wide open on my wrist and I thought I was gonna die that night. You know what though? It was my lucky day, [throat clearing] I’ll tell you why. Uh, I just missed that main artery. By the grace of God I just missed that main artery and so it didn’t, the bleeding wasn’t as severe as it really should have or could have been, so I’m very grateful for that. But you know, there, there was issues with safety out there. One safety issue, I was able to convince management to put up a fence. Um, there was a stairway that would come down from the bathrooms and we had an electrified rail that was part of a, a new conveyer system that was installed back in ’99 out there in C Underbody and you can literally reach out and touch this rail and, uh, we, we were, we were, we put a fence up over that and it’s there to this day so, you know, electrocution was avoided. Uh, there was other times when were able to eliminate welds that were not needed or move welds in, into a better location. In the, in the world of Weld Integrity you have to realize there’s a, a whole school of engineering that goes into that. You have different layers of metal. You have galvanized metal versus bare metal. These all need to be taken into consideration when designing a weld schedule to weld these little different layers of metal together, so there was a lot of opportunity to improve upon a process. Um, many of my coworkers on Weld Integrity came up with good ideas. Even though we weren’t engineers, we, uh, there was a lot of us that knew exactly what was going on and how to better the product. Michael Fleming: [37:49] So Lyle, um, what was the most you’ve ever gotten awarded through the suggestions? Lyle Birchman: $2700. Michael Fleming: Very good. [37:57] Have you ever worked any changeovers, Lyle? Lyle Birchman: Uh, the, the ’99 changeover I worked some of that. Um, bein’ that they were – if you think about it, they were, they were installing new robots and mind you [throat clearing] it isn’t the robot that does the welding. The robot just moves a weld gun and so they needed some people to work and help, uh, qualify we would call it, qualify these guns to make sure they were up to snuff and to make sure everything was going to be, uh, the, the, the welds would be in the right location when production came up to [inaudible 38:31]. Michael Fleming: [38:34] So was that a long time that you worked that change of hours-wise? What did – talk about [inaudible 38:40]. Lyle Birchman: Well, it was 40 hours a week. We didn’t work any, uh, [coughing] uh, long, uh, hours then but I did work a lot of weekends. I, I had the pleasure of working with UAW Local 602 electricians many, many weekends. Funny story, you want to hear a funny body shop story? Female: Sure. Lyle Birchman: Some [throat clearing] – we all have our gifts and I won’t name names because I really like both those guys. They were wonderful people but, uh, I was working on days and, uh, Dan, uh, Dan Wood he always felt like – I mean he was an old school manager and felt like it was his money so he, he wouldn’t just let people come in and work weekends unless he was absolutely sure. Well, we were programming, uh, Station 34 out on the car track line. That’s the one where you weld the sides and the, the floor pan together. And we were, we were, the, the electricians were programming for the trunk area, the 34 does that, and the one guy worked and worked and worked on that for like eight hours and there was nobody coming in on the night shift ‘cause Dan never brought anybody in, so we ended up staying. But just a funny story, uh, he had worked and worked and tried and tried to get the gun. Uh, fortunately, on the night shift one of the electricians came in who was very good at programming and I kid you not, 20 minutes later he had that thing moving like a ballerina. [laughter] Michael Fleming: [40:11] Lyle, Lyle, did you notice when you were in the body shop and shift changed, quality changed or, uh, per se one, one shift might have ran smoother than the other? Lyle Birchman: Sometimes. Uh, s-, some areas [throat clearing] ran better. Uh, talking about quality, in the old days when I first came on Weld Integrity, uh, if you had a malfunction, um, there’s like, uh, uh, a anywhere from 12 to 18 inch long cable that’s like 1 ½ inch thick. We used to call it a jumper. It’s on a weld gun. And as that gun makes these welds, this thing is moving the whole time as the gun opens and closes. You can see how this would, this cable would move each time. Over time, that’s going to wear out. Well, in the old days, uh, as that would deteriorate, it would have an effect on weld quality and if you had a weld breaking, uh, sometimes it was that. Sometimes it was a whole host of other things but if you had a, a, occasionally a jumper will just burn up and then you’re very concerned because you had no idea how many welds were bad up until your last check. And with the, uh, emergence of new technology the, and computerization they were, they’ve been able to take that whole issue out of the equation. Last summer I was working out in Underbody or a year ago last summer and we had a jumper burn up and, uh, um, my first thought is, okay, I better check the bank [coughing] of cars that we have. ‘Cause every area has a bank of cars so if you have an issue you have a bank so your production continues. And I’ll have you know that that was the only job that was bad, that one and it was only that one spot. They’ve, they’ve actually improved the technology to a point where that computer in the, in that weld controller will c-, uh, it will actually consider what’s goin’ on and up the voltage and compensate for any, uh, wear and tear that that jumper might be suffering. I mean this kind of technology has, has improved weld quality dramatically. Uh, tip dresser technology as well where the, the, the [throat clearing] accumulating weld slag would gather on the weld caps and they would, this was something that they installed back in ’99 and perfected over the years, after the robot gets done welding it goes to the home position; however, after 200 to 300 welds, depending on the severity of the welding, it would go in and grind the debris off the cap. I don’t know if I wanted, you wanted me… Michael Fleming: One more… Lyle Birchman: …to go there or not. Michael Fleming: One more question while we’re talking about the technical stuff [inaudible 43:03] in the body shop. Lyle Birchman: Uh-huh. Michael Fleming: [43:05] You know, y-, y, you worked down there for like 10 years or more… Lyle Birchman: Yeah. Michael Fleming: ..in the body shop? You’re familiar with the C-line and the M-line. [coughing] Lyle Birchman: Mm-hm. Michael Fleming: And when they changed the M line over and the C line we’re talking specifically underbodies now [43:20] and, uh, how did it affect your job when the M line would not run so well and it started taking all these cars from the C line, uh, and, and pullin’ them over so these guys would work more? Are you, are you familiar with that kind of stuff at all? Lyle Birchman: That didn’t bother me too much because I was doing quality control [coughing] but yeah, that, that had [coughing] potential issues. Uh, one of, from our perspective is we had to be able to discern whether it was a C line or a M line underbody and… Michael Fleming: [43:49] Once you [inaudible 43:49] you mean? Lyle Birchman: Oh yeah. And oh my gosh from a, like a dog catcher per-, uh, perspective or if you’re running repair, you had to know where the right stampings were on e-, each one to know whether it was a C or a M body and, yeah, just, uh [coughing] changed the equation somewhat. Talking about technology, can I share this one little thing? When I hired in [throat clearing] there was none of the technology there. It was like old times. The body shop had all hand guns. They didn’t, uh, bring in the car track process and a lot of the heavily, uh, automated stuff till the changeover in ’84. But I’ll never forget this, I – and at the time I just went huh but, uh, it’s always stuck in my mind. Uh, the summer of ’77 we went down for changeover and I used to walk out through the body shop every day to the parking lot and there were these two guys that were working on floor pan. They’d load a part in it, hand weld it. Well, they weren’t there after I came back through and they had a hard automatic doing the welding. A hard automatic is a weld gun that moves into a position and it only weld one or two spots and then pulls back but that was like the, that was, I saw that and I went hm. And you know, at one point, uh, the Lansing Car Assembly Body Plant formerly known as Fisher Body probably had the greatest concentration of robots anywhere in the world because we were essentially two assembly plants under one roof, upwards of 650 robots. In fact, I would share that fact w-, with folks when we did the tours. Marilyn Coulter: Um, going away from that, you just said Lansing Car Assembly formerly Fisher Body. We’ve went through a lot of name changes at Fisher Body. [45:41] How did you feel about that? Lyle Birchman: I thought BOC was stupid, you know. We, we didn’t even build Cadillacs. You know, it’s one of those really ridiculous things from the mindset typical of Richard, uh, Wagoner today, you know. We had different [coughing] CEOs that cook up these things. Kind of like George Bush doesn’t know how to hammer, I think we had some CEOs that didn’t have a clue on how to manage things and they’d come up with something ridiculous like BOC. You guys want to hear a story? Marilyn Coulter: [Inaudible 46:12]. [chuckling] Female: Sure. Lyle Birchman: This is a classic. [throat clearing] Uh, you know, we’ve won all these awards and this is just a few years ago w-, working for John Rosendahl, uh, they would have him do anything and everything and being that we worked for him with the tours, we were the guys that did a lot of this stuff. [throat clearing] Uh, we had won a quality award, the J.D. Power Quality [coughing] award and we all received coats. Well, we were to set the coat distribution up in the Skill Center, which was on the second floor. We had to use a freight elevator behind the cafeteria. So what we would do is bring up all these boxes through this freight elevator, load’m on a little gurney and then push it through what was called, well, formerly the executive dining room which was at the time, you know, three years ago, four years ago, it was the, we called it the Special Function Room. And we had pushed some tables and chairs out of the way and we’re movin’ through, through that area out over to the Skill Center to set up our distribution room for the coats. Well, there’s this middle-aged gal in there and we’re moving coats through and I said hi to her and she was still there when we came back through and she was moving chairs and stacking’m against the wall and we kept moving and finally I asked her, I said, “Is there something I can do for you?” You know, I’m just kinda what’s goin’ on here type of thing ‘cause it was kinda strange. It turns out she was concerned because this, there was a new GM program they were rolling out. Uh, evidently the new protocol coming from, uh, guys like Richard, uh, Rick Wagoner and, uh, the, their ilk, uh, h-, they had determined that you could not stack chairs more than three deep and because we had moved some tables and chairs, she was concerned that these were not stacked more than three deep. Now comin’ from the body shop where you have light screen technology, you have fences, you have, uh, pressure sensitive matting and the potential to get injuries like the wrist injury, I just thought that was the most hilarious [throat clearing] and ridiculous thing I had ever heard of. Uh, here they’re payin’ this woman lots of money [throat clearing] to worry if the chairs are more than three deep [coughing] stacked. [laughter] You know, while I’m on that subject, can I share one more thing with you? [laughter] We used to have segregation when I first hired in. And what I mean by segregation is we had segregated parking. If you were hourly, you had to park further out. If you were salary, you had a special parking lot up close. And if an hourly person parked in that salary parking area, they would tow your vehicle. You were subject to disciplinary action as well. We also had segregated [coughing] eating areas. We had the executive dining room, the salary cafeteria, and then the hourly cafeteria, each with a declining level of quality of food. And at the time I didn’t think anything of it, you know, it’s all a matter of perspective and if you don’t know any better. Uh, looking back I think it’s kind of ironic in a, in a good sort of way that the former salary cafeteria was turned into our Skill Center which was open to both salary and hourly people to use the computers and the library and the executive dining room was used for special functions. I got off on that when I told the story about bringing the coats through there. But yeah, we used to have segregation in the old days. Now everybody gets – I used to joke with people on the tours. I’d tell’m, uh, now everybody is subject to the same lousy food. [laughter] But you know what, uh, our, our office for the tours was in the back of the cafeteria and I can’t say enough about the wonderful folks that worked in the cafeteria up there. They’re all great folks and really the food wasn’t that bad. I thought their biscuits and gravy were some of the best. Michael Fleming: Lyle, Mike Fleming. [50:08] What, what would you consider would be one of your best memories of Fisher Body? [pause]. Male: [Inaudible 50:25]. Lyle Birchman: Oh, lots of good memories. I mean meeting my wife and obviously that’s the most significant thing, uh, that could have come out of this whole, uh, [throat clearing] – but I, I tell you what, some of’m that are happy, really happy memories was some of the times just sittin’ and talkin’ with people and sharing, uh, good, good times, uh, jokes and deep conversations. I had a dear friend, [Ed Worgul 50:52]. I used to play harmonica with him. He’s passed on. He, he retired a number of years ago but he used to play that thing constantly and, uh, I also, I often wondered if he didn’t drive his partner crazy. They were Skilled Trades and they were tinners, tinsmiths, and they would drive around on the – Lloyd would drive and, and Ed would play that harmonica and I thought to myself, you know, I play these things but even that would drive me bananas listening to it [laughter] all day long. And, uh, you know, we had some great times, great conversations. I’ll never forget, um, probably, uh, another real significant thing that happened in my life was the old, uh, UAW GM Talent Shows. And 19 years ago, we, uh, we – I didn’t have anything to do with it. A guy named Don Loomis came up to me, approached me and he approached everybody and we put a, a band together for this. At the time it was a talent contest and, uh, we didn’t win. We, I think we took second or third. Uh, [Joanne Moore 51:59] she always would win because she’s such an amazing singer. I just loved to hear her sing. And that, that night, though, we had such a good time and we had a great time practicing, we’ve been together ever since. In fact, after we realized that, hey, this is kinda fun, we put together a bluegrass gospel band and we played, uh, just one song and we, we had a great time and we got together and continued playing. We’ve been playing ever since but the first time we ever played as a group outside of that talent show was right here in the UAW Local 602 Hall. And, you know, coming from a rather conservative church background, uh, and these guys was, were all pretty much, uh, they came from a, a background where you testify and you praise the Lord, raise your hand and let it all hang out. Picture this, you know, I’m, I’m playing with these guys, I don’t know’m that well and we’re right here at the UAW Local 602 Hall and [Doug Prater 53:02] he’s a Pentecostal, boy, he, uh, he, he had broke a string, so it’s time to do some talkin’. If you have a string break, why it’s time to talk, you know, so you can’t just stand there. Everybody’s wide-eyed and he says, “Lyle, how ‘bout a testimony of what the Lord’s done for you?” And, you know, I never said anything in public like that in my whole life. [laughter] So I mumbled, uh, this and that and got through it but I, I’ll never forget that one. And I know it doesn’t have anything to do with building cars but it does because our group [throat clearing] uh, you know, we literally got our start here and, uh, Don Loomis and I [throat clearing] and [Bruce Pettinger 53:39. Uh, [Larry Lepard 53:41], uh, bless his heart, he passed on 11 years ago, he had cancer, and great guy. E-, even to this day, I hear, uh, I’ll Fly Away, I think of Larry, good guy. Doug Rademacher: Lyle, it’s Doug Rademacher. I worked with you also over the years and, uh, you blew harmonica and it was, it was a pleasure for people but, uh, I remember very vividly that, uh, there was a gentleman that played guitar and he looked like John Denver and he’d bring his guitar in and you would hook up. [54:17] Can you tell some stories about what you’d do for people on your breaks and lunches? Uh, were you ever requested to do things for retirement parties or anything like that inside the facility? Lyle Birchman: Well, that was Greg Smith. I always called him Guitar Greg and this guy can play anything from the 40s, 50s, 60s. He even learns these songs that kids are listening to today, you know. Uh, I used to joke about it a few years ago, I, I never in my wildest dreams thought I’d be playing a Green Day song for instance but I did playing with Greg. And we would have some great times. I, I first met him when I was working Underbody and this is probably about, oh, 10, 12 years ago and I saw this guy carrying a guitar and, uh, you know, I was fascinated and, you know, we, we got together on lunchbreak. But one of the problems you had out in the body shop it was so noisy even when you’re not buildin’ cars, all the ventilation systems, all the equipment that’s, uh, conveyers and we used to have to, you know, play over that noise but a lot of times we’d get in break areas. I, I, I remember we had these team rooms, one was painted blue and we used to joke that we were playing at the, the Blue Room Lounge. [laughter] Remember that one, Doug? And, uh, we, we had some good times. [pause] [click] Doug Rademacher: Lyle, you, you [throat clearing] mentioned Greg a little bit. [55:44] Again, uh, was there a time when anyone asked you [throat clearing] to play inside the plant for, uh, a dinner or anything, uh, somebody retiring? Lyle Birchman: Off and on, yeah, we’d do that. Um, I remember one year, uh, the guy I played guitar with he’s no, he’s not in UAW Local 602. He’s a good union man, fixes elevators here in Lansing but he came in the plant and Bruce and I and he, uh, we, uh, we played, uh, for I, I don’t even remember the guy’s last name, [Vern 56:17]. He was a electrician. He retired and we played a short set of bluegrass gospel music just for him. That was pretty cool. Male: [Inaudible 56:25]. Lyle Birchman: Another thing along with the same line of playing music, [throat clearing] one, one of those memories that’s, uh, forever seared in my mind, uh, there’s, there used to be a fellow by the name of [Billy Harper 56:35], Work Material over by train dock in the, out in, in Trim. Uh, you know, the, the, the train dock right there, he had a little office and I’m not really sure what he did but, uh, we were all on break at the time and Bruce Pettinger came out with his banjo, Don had his mandolin, I had a harmonica, and Billy had a fiddle and we had one other guy join us playin’, uh, beatin’ out a rhythm on the flattop and that little room was just packed and we were playin’ bluegrass music and we still laugh about it today. Doug Rademacher: [57:10] Lyle, you have, um, can you talk about your union a little bit? Over the, uh, the years, have you had to use the union? Did you have a time where you appreciated the UAW and do you take time to vote? [throat clearing] Lyle Birchman: Yes, yes, and yes. [throat clearing] Doug Rademacher: [57:29] Do you want to elaborate [inaudible 57:30] little bit on something? When you hired in, did the union support you when you first hired in? Did you ever need them early on? Lyle Birchman: You know, I wasn’t involved at all when I first hired in. Um, actually I ruffled a few feathers back in ’79. I, I’ve always been kinda political and I always knew what side the bread my, you know, bu-, the butter was on. I always was appreciative of my union benefits but, you know, I didn’t regularly get involved in a lotta stuff early on. I was just a kid, you know, 18 years old, livin’ my life but I also had a sense of political right and wrong and I was involved in the antinuclear, uh, movement of the 70s and there was 5000 of us marched down at Midland back in ’79 or ’78 right in there. And, uh, you know, the Midland Nuclear Power Plant never did, uh, come in to being, you know, due to grassroots concern. And I’ll never forget it, the Board of Water and Light at the time was [throat clearing] going to buy into Midland Nuclear Plant and I don’t even remember the fellow’s name but [throat clearing] there was a guy who was a UAW appointee on the, on the Board of Water and Light or on the, on some committee. It’s been so long ago and this just hit me. I should have researched this before I showed up but, uh, I remember getting up at the union meeting and, and chastising, saying, you know, “Why, why is this?” ‘Cause he, he hadn’t been instructed to vote one way or the other but that’s about the only time that I really had a run, uh, and at that point that, that vote was corrected and that led to the Board of Water and Light not buying into the Midland Nuclear Power Plant, which was a financial boondoggle. Here’s the Board of Water and Light by virtue of their independence has been able to provide the Lansing area with affordable electricity and there were people that did not have the, the goodwill of the people in mind when they tried to do that merger and that poor guy, he didn’t know what was going on, he was just there ‘cause they appointed him, you know. But, uh, I felt pretty good about that one. We were able to keep them – unfortunately they did get, uh, the Board of Water and Light did lose [throat clearing] some of their independence. Uh, they were, they hooked up with Edison on a coal flower – coal fire plant and to this day I still think the Board of Water and Light should have done everything they could to maintain their independence to better serve Lansing. And that has a bearing on General Motors as well because by proving a, a good affordable steady source of electricity and steam, uh, that, that was a big plus for the Grand River Assembly Plant being located, uh, right there by the, the power station and they were able to make the best use of that. And the new Delta plant, if you think about it, it’s right there by the other Board of Water and Light Power Station. Marilyn Coulter: Lyle, [throat clearing], given your… Doug Rademacher: Marilyn Coulter. Marilyn Coulter: Marilyn Coulter. [60:38] Given your activity that you just spoke about and are you active in your union currently? And if so, do you hold a position? And if so, what position is that? Lyle Birchman: Well, uh, a little background. Uh, each political election – I, I, I have to go way back, okay? Uh, back when, uh, Ronald Reagan [throat clearing] won the first time, I was heartbroken. I’ll never forget this. I – the, the returns came in and I went over to Harry’s Bar to drink a double, I was so depressed. And I’m sittin’ there right next to some guy, a fellow autoworker, who was happy, obviously an idiot. And we all know the, the, the damage that Ronald Reagan’s, uh, regime brought to working people. Uh, fast [throat clearing] forward to, uh, the last election, that broke my heart again and I decided to run for our Citizenship and Legislative Committee and it’s been a real honor to serve, uh, the, the Local. I think we have a lotta work to do. We’re entering the most important 11 months of our political lives leading up to the 2006 elections. We’ve got some congressmen that we need to vote out of office and get some State reps in office that are more labor friendly. We’ve got a lot of work to do and I’m honored to be in that, serving in that capacity. Doug Rademacher: Doug Rademacher. [62:05] Lyle, the, um, [throat clearing] as you just said, we’re, we’re in a fight. Lansing has been called the Capital of Quality and they’ve built 19 million vehicles I guess out of this particular facility and General Motors has reinvested in Lansing, Michigan, no place else in North America since the Saturn plant of the, I believe the 80s. So, um, can you talk about that? Wh-, why is Lansing the Capital of Quality? What makes it happen? Lyle Birchman: I think it’s the people. Uh, one of the things that they mentioned when this new Delta plant was comin’ on that they’re actually going to bring anthropologists in to study the culture of Lansing and what makes it so unique to the rest of the North American workforce. I mean think about it, we were the only plant left that was trucking bodies from one building to another, yet Harbor and Associates ranked our two assembly lines 1 and 2 for efficiency. That speaks of the people. [throat clearing] Uh, I used to be fond of, uh, uh, expressing that when we did plant tours. I’d talk about what a great organization we have, uh, from the, the men and women on the production to the, our friends on Skilled Trades and even the managing, everybody working together has made Lansing what it is today and it’s a longstanding tradition that we’re going to continue on with Delta. Doug Rademacher: [63:36] Could you share one more thing, uh, what about the Skilled Trades, what sort of relationship that you’ve experienced with Trades and the production line? Lyle Birchman: Well, it was a real pleasure and a privilege working with a lot of those folks. Uh, uh, working in Weld Integrity what our job would do is we would monitor weld quality. If we found something going on that needed, uh, to be addressed, we would contact the area electrician, so I got to know’m all and you learned who had, uh, the skills for varied, we all have our gifts and some folks are better than others at different things. And I really came to respect a lot of the electricians, a real pleasure working with’m. Yes, sir? Doug Rademacher: Mike Fleming. Michael Fleming: [64:22] Lyle, um, [throat clearing] being, um, a local union official and have, have really gotten into, um, giving back to your membership, what would you consider your most appreciated bargain benefit by the UAW? Lyle Birchman: Wow. Um, seniority is huge. The, the wages we make it’s, it’s wonderful. Uh, without the UAW I would not been able to be the productive member of our, of the community which I live. I, I wouldn’t have been able to buy a home. I wouldn’t have been able to support my school district. Uh, I wouldn’t have been able to do a lot of things for my kids. And thank goodness for the, the benefits that UAW negotiated for me and everybody else. Lansing is a, a good town because of it. You know, I, I like to share this with folks. I don’t bank offshore. I don’t have an offshore bank account. All my money stays right here in this community. It, it goes right back into the community and the community is better for that, so I’m very grateful for, uh, everything that’s been negotiated on my behalf. My kids take advantage of the tuition assistance for, uh, dependents. I have two kids in college. And, um, to go political right now, I’m flabbergasted that guys like Congressman Mike Rogers voted to cut $14 billion dollars out of the student loan program but thank goodness that the UAW still has a little, has, has that benefit for the, for the students. [throat clearing] Michael Fleming: Um, you know, we just negotiated some, um, changes within our national contract which allows, um, our retirees to keep their healthcare which they pay a portion of and active employees to pay, to defer a portion of their raises going forward. [66:29] How do you feel about that, Lyle? Lyle Birchman: It’s all about sticking together and taking care of those who, uh, could use some help. You know, there’s a courageous group of individuals down in Grass Lake, Michigan that the company they work for, Tenneco, was going to unilaterally take the meager benefits that their pensioners were going to get and just say, well, this is all for healthcare, you’re not getting anything. And it was illegal, it was immoral and after a year of litigation, the company finally backed off but only because of the, uh, e-, efforts of the UAW Local 660. Uh, since then, r-, retribution has been relentless perhaps due to the fact, uh, of bruised egos on the part of some key managers. I don’t know why but they’ve been, they’ve been forced out on a unfair labor practice strike for eight months and all for the same reason, they were [throat clearing] standing up for their pensioners, their retirees. And some of these senior citizens are World War II, Korean, and Vietnam vets or their widows. So yeah, it’s an honor to be able to help our sisters and brothers of the UAW who really needed assistance in that regard. Michael Fleming: Lyle, it sounds to me as though you really get it. [67:44] Uh, can you agree or disagree that you feel within the United States right now labor is under attack? Lyle Birchman: Oh certainly, all-out, it’s all-out war. Warren Buffett, the billionaire of the, uh, what’s that – uh, Hathaway Mutual Fund. [throat clearing] He says the war between the, the, the rich and the poor and right now the rich are winning it hands down. And you know I’m, I’m reminded of what our friend Mike Huerta said the other day. He, he was relating how every benefit out there was because of organized labor stepping up, whether it was a 40-hour work week, whether it was safer working conditions, basic dignity, the UAW and other labor organizations have lead the way. So we have a lot of work to do. Marilyn Coulter: Lyle, once again coming back to – Marilyn Coulter – coming back to UAW and Fisher Body. Thank you for what you do. Uh, currently you’re doing something that’s special that’s actually been something unprecedented that, um, the UAW and GM have been doing as we close the doors of our old plant and open the new. [68:59] You want to speak a little bit about that and the impact of GM, UAW on the community? Lyle Birchman: Sure. Uh, about a year ago our chairman, Steve Bramos, called me on the phone and asked me if I wanted to coordinate, we have what’s called a Jobs Bank and it’s a negotiated benefit, uh, been around for years through the UAW. And one of the things that, uh, we wanted to do was to coordinate a Jobs Bank Community Service Program where members of UAW Local 602 could go out in the community and help nonprofit organizations with many worthy causes. It’s probably been one of the most rewarding experiences in my life in that we’ve been able to establish a relationship with over 250 agencies not only in the immediate Lansing area but the greater Lansing area extending out into other counties beyond the Tri-County area. Uh, folks like the Charlton Park Historical Village, we’ve, uh, been able to provide them with a number of volunteers who have been doing everything from archeological digs to reconstructing Potawatomi Indian Villages to painting buildings, replacing roofs. [Bill Ford 70:16], one of my favorite pictures from that is he, he’s dressed up in union blues portraying a, a union soldier and what he has been doing is he portrays a teacher in a one-room schoolhouse with a wood stove right smack dab in the middle. It’s just like the old days. And they bus kids in from all over. It’s a fieldtrip thing and they, they see all the different buildings. And Bill will actually portray a teacher and these kids sit through a, uh, uh, a session of one-room schoolhouse experience and this guy loves it so much that he intends to continue volunteering there whenever he can as he returns to Delta. It’s stuff like that that other folks are, uh, some are [throat clearing] dressing up as, uh, a husband and wife, uh, inn and they actually greet the kids and they’ll feed’m soup. Uh, uh, Brenda, she’ll cook up the soup and they feed these kids soup made on a, a wood stove, a wood cook stove. And the, the amount of good they’ve done just in that one area but there’s so much more, a lot of great proactive programs such as the Capital Area Literacy Coalition. Uh, [Gilbert Cuellar 71:39] for example, this guy has gone to immigrant labor camps to help teach kids how to read, help teach illiterate folks how to read in the Lansing area, folks that are from around here. It, it’s a very great program. Uh, Head Start, Julie Kepler, we’ve been working with her, providing Head Start volunteers in the classrooms. This is all about proactive helping children making right decision at an early age, America will be better for it. And I could go on and on and on and on, the organizations that we’ve been able to help. Currently, uh, probably at this point we could safely say we’ve placed over 750 UAW Local 602 members in different positions, uh, off and on throughout the past year. Currently, we’re around 450 that are out there in the field. Doug Rademacher: [72:34] So Lyle – Doug Rademacher – on that you’re saying that this bargain benefit with the Fisher Plant closing May 5 of ’05, these people have the choice to sit and be paid their wages but they choose to volunteer in their community? Lyle Birchman: Yeah. And many others are going to school. Uh, just a sidebar to all this, when, when the plant closed on May 5, it was probably the, the – leading up to that and then immediately following was probably the craziest time in my entire career at General Motors. I went for four or five weeks without even a lunchbreak and it wasn’t just me. We had a great team of folks. Uh, I want to thank Doug for helping out and a lot of others. There was a lot of people that came in to the picture and left as Delta fires up, people come and then they go back to, to work and there’s a lotta people that were very instrumental in implementing the program. It wasn’t just me. It was a lot of people working together. [pause] And Mike too, thanks Mike, sorry. Marilyn Coulter: [73:41] Is there anything that you’d like to talk – Marilyn Coulter – is there anything that you’d like to talk about that we haven’t touched on? Lyle Birchman: Can I go on a little bit on tours? Michael Fleming: Sure, Lyle. Talk about the tours. [73:53] You were the plant tour… Lyle Birchman: Yeah. Michael Fleming: …guide, right? Lyle Birchman: Yeah. Michael Fleming: [73:57] Um, first shift was that? Lyle Birchman: Well, I did the tours on the night shift too. Marilyn Coulter: Yes, Lyle. Please go ahead and tell us about the plant tours. Lyle Birchman: Back in ’91 the, the word went out that they were going to interview for a nontraditional j-, job called Plant Tours and I was really honored to be able to be part of that program. [Dave Pardee 74:19] and I, he came on several months later and worked with John Rosendahl and a number of others and it, it was really, uh, an amazing experience to set the program up right from the beginning and to learn by the seat of your pants. Nobody showed me how to do a whole lot of anything other than John has a wealth of experience. John Rosendahl, my former boss there, has a wealth of experience in public speaking and PR, so I learned a great deal from him and for that I’m grateful. We were, uh – a funny story – can I share a, a, a funny story about culture? One of the first tours we had was, uh, the AvtoVAZ. It was the, the Russian auto industry at the time. Remi-, remember this is back in ’91 and [throat clearing] things have changed a great deal since then but, uh, it was like the Lee Iacocca equivalent of the Russian auto industry visiting. There was four dignitaries and they had their translator and we’re walking’m around and showing’m the plant and obviously they didn’t have anything like what we had. This was probably one of the most techniclo-, technologically advanced body shops in the, in the industry at the time. And we’re all talkin’ through interpreters and obviously the conversation was pretty slow but he had made a joke and we all laughed [throat clearing] and I gave him a big thumbs up and then right when I did it I was horrified. I thought, oh my gosh, I don’t know if I just gave this guy the finger in Russian culture or not. And fortunately they all laughed and everything was smoothed over but I, I’ll never forget that little, uh, moment there. And we had folks from, uh, you know, the head of Pontiac and all, all the different, uh, head honchos that were, uh, we built the cars for, they c-, they’d come through. Uh, I’ll never forget when John Middlebrook was coming in, they had an advance person come and this was a big important tour and, uh, John Rosendahl paged me. I had a pager at the time and I didn’t have a phone right nearby so I ducked in and asked the oilers, we had, we have a team that oils all the different equipment, if I could borrow their phone. And they’re great guys. I’d talked to them for years and I, I went in there and I called John, he says, “Yeah, she’s down at the other end, the advance person, you need to meet her.” I said, “Great.” Well, I hung up the phone and the guys say, “Hey Lyle, before you leave, can you play a song for us on the harmonica?” So I said, “Yeah, sure.” So I grabbed the harp out and wail on it and give’m a quick tune and we’re all cuttin’ up laughin’. And, uh, I’m, I’m prepared to go and one of the guys accidentally bumped one of his oil guns and I kid you not, I got a blast of grease right on my crotch right before. [laughter] I kid you not, my, these dress pants, I got this big ol’ spot and I’m going, oh my gosh, what am I going to do? I have to meet this woman in just a matter of minutes and, you know, I show up and I got this and I explained to her the whole situation. In the meantime, I had phoned my wife. Bless her heart, she was able to bring me another pair of pants. So by the time the, the tour came off [coughing] uh, I was sportin’ a different pair of pants and no, nobody was none the wiser; however, she, she, she made sure everybody knew. And, [laughter] and, you know, that’s one of the things when you work a group, you, somethin’ happens kind of a, a, a temporary sense of community takes shape and they, you [throat clearing] get to know even though these are people that probably truth be known you’re nothing more than a, you know, nothing to them because they, they have such a slanted point of view of working people. But at the time, we, especially that particular group of people, uh, we, we, we were all joking and she brought that up right in front of everybody and we all shared a laugh. But, uh, we – the guys in the, in the oiler room we joked about that one for years. And, uh, a side bar to all that, they, they, he, he, he, the guy felt so bad about it, it was not intentional and he offered to use some of that hot thinner to – and I said, “No, not there.” [laughter] Yes, sir? Michael Fleming: Mike Fleming. Lyle, you were talking [coughing] about your tours. [78:46] Can you talk about how you got from one area to the next? Because if you, our plant is layered and you got the body shop on the very bottom floor, you got Paint on the very top floor, uh, did you do that? How did – what did you do, Lyle? Lyle Birchman: That’s an excellent question. Um, our tours were primarily on the main floor even when we initially we did walking tours and when we did – let me reph-, take that back. When we did walking tours, I would always try to get upstairs a little bit and show’m a little bit of the M system ‘cause I felt the need to, to show. But for so many years we, we had this refurbished train from the 50s. This thing is vintage and I hope that we’ll be able to have that at the Delta plant. This thing is cool lookin’. It’s old, it’s vintage and it’s been outfitted with a PA. Uh, one person drives and one sits in the back and does the talkin’ through a microphone. And the nice thing about that in that particular facility, realize that, that, that plant was built in 1920. It’s an o-, original Durant [throat clearing] plant and the support posts are fairly close together and the ceilings were low but it was those posts that posed such a problem because we’re buildin’, heck we’re the leading producer of automobiles year in, year out, year in, year out, we, uh, b-, build more cars than anyone else. That meant that our friends on Material Handling had to be delivering this stuff. So here we are with this group of people, last thing you wanted to do was do it on foot with fork trucks coming this way and that way, flatbeds, it was a safety issue. So we were very grateful that we had the train and we would take the folks on the train. But I always, always loved doin’ the foot tours because you could take’m up close to the equipment, you know, get’m right by the fence and they could see how, uh, some of the intricacies of the manufacturing process especially out in the body shop and I’d always point out to them that, you know, high tech is only as good as the men and women behind it and that our UAW Local 602 electricians did an outstanding job at keeping this equipment running. And when the people left, I was convinced they came away with a better point of view of, uh, the, the brothers and sisters of UAW Local 602. Uh, can I keep goin’ a little bit on some of these stories? ‘Cause I really got a kick out of some of this tour stuff. Doug Rademacher: Yeah, why don’t you… Female: Doug. Doug Rademacher: This is Doug Rademacher. Why don’t you continue on? [81:15] Would you share the diversity of the groups that came through… Lyle Birchman: Oh. We had people from all over… Doug Rademacher: …[inaudible 81:19]? Lyle Birchman: …all over the planet. Uh, and we’d get a lot of tourists in the summertime. [clicking] Male: There we go. Lyle Birchman: We would have folks come in from all over the planet. Uh, and I always realized that people from other countries they weren’t going to buy our vehicles, uh, but it was important that they heard our story. But I also took it very seriously when we could sell the idea of our product ‘cause nothing happens until the product is sold. I’m a salesman at heart and I firmly believe that sales and marketing is critical to any venture and I always took it very seriously that I always told all, all the, the best I possibly could about, uh, what we were doing and I took it very seriously. We had people come in from all over. Uh, a funny story about the Netherlands. Okay, you know, here in Michigan everybody holds up the hand and you can say, well, I’m from here or there, you know, it’s a Michigan thing. You talk to somebody from Montana or somebody from Texas and they look at you like why are you holding your hand up? Sad to say, uh, many of our fellow countrymen don’t even realize that Michigan, at least the lower peninsula part, is a hand. And I, I got this phone call and this woman is calling from the Netherlands. It was the Royal Engineering Society. Uh, they were talking about 25 to 30 people that were going to be coming in and touring America and they were going to travel from Chicago to Detroit and they were going to, while they were in Detroit they were going to tour an auto plant. Well, one of the things I, I take great pride in the fact that as I, I was on, in that position as scheduler f-, for the tours is I would try to promote Lansing. I’d love it if somebody would buy a car but I’d also appreciate it if I was able to talk them into renting a motel room, [coughing] spending the night, that meant they were going to take in a meal, maybe a movie, go out and spend their dollars in Lansing and that’s what being a neighbor is all about. We had people coming in to see our facility and I always wanted to share Lansing. I developed a relationship with the Lugnuts, the local minor league sports team and I had that schedule right there and if I could tell’m, “Hey, there’s a ballgame that night, you really should go. Have you ever been to a minor league ballgame?” But back to the Netherlands, so that promoter in me kicked in and I got her to hold up her hand and explain to her that between Chicago and Detroit is Lansing and that we could probably, uh, put her in touch with our friends at the Lansing Convention and Visitors Bureau with whom I had a relationship. I like to work with them and get as much promotional ideas from them as possible. And I got her holding up her hand, talking to me from the other side of the planet for crying out loud, and I talked her into coming to our tour and I put her in touch with folks at the Lansing Convention and Visitors Bureau. And they didn’t – they stayed not one night but two nights and that was like 15 motel rooms. So they, they stayed two nights, they loved our plant tour but they also took in, uh, other things in Lansing and I always thought that was a homerun for, uh, the, the people of Lansing. I always liked to promote Lansing. Folks came here for their vacations. Uh, I had this one fellow, he was a real likable guy. I just took to him right away. He’d just slap you on the back, friendly sorta guy. Turned out he owned a string of funeral parlors out in Montana. Well, at the time, Dave Pardee, my partner and I, [throat clearing] we had secured a stack of Pontiac Grand Am posters and we had handed out a few to our friends and, uh, but we were supposed to be just handing’m out for tours and that’s what we did. Well, I’m realizing that this guy and I also realized that many of the people who were impressed with our tours, this is something that I felt strongly about, they would talk about what a great organization Lansing Car Assembly was and, oh, by the way, what do you think of those Grand Ams, aren’t they great. It would sell cars long after they were l-, uh, gone. You’re drinking coffee with your buddy and the subject of cars come up and they’ll tell you, they’ll tell how they went to Lansing and toured that automobile assembly plant and the men and women that worked there [throat clearing] were so friendly, what a great bunch of people and that, that’s a great car they build. You can’t put a dollar amount on that kinda PR. So knowin’ this, we’ve got this fellow from Montana and he’s just lovin’ it and he has obviously a, a wide range of influence in his communities where he has these funeral homes. I sent him home with I think a dozen of those posters and the reason why is I knew, I knew he would tell our story each time he gave out one of those posters and then he probably told the, the story even more because we treated him so well. And it was a mutual thing. I mean we just hit it off so well but he’s, he’s probably still telling our stories. We got a card from him and he bought his daughter a Grand Am and that was really cool. Uh, uh, one of the other things that [Bill Ross 86:35], a, a, a superintendent up in Paint, has a motor coach and our vehicles were towable and a lot of these motor coach people would tow these vehicles and we would go out and do, uh, a show out in Charlotte with Spartan Motors and we would do, uh, tell’m about how our vehicles are towable. Male: Excuse me, sir. I’m looking for a printer. [clicking] Lyle Birchman: After we did a couple of those trade shows with Spartan Motors that builds the chassis for these motor coaches, I, I was now very well informed on the fact that our vehicles are towable, so I started using that as a selling point. [throat clearing] And right towards the end there as the tour program wound down, uh, I was on the phone with a fellow from Iowa and they had a motor coach and, uh, they, they had heard about our tours and I, I, I found out that one of the other things I would do was help steer people toward lodging and they were, they wanted to find a place to camp, so that gave me the hint, “Oh, what are you runnin’?” And once I found out he had a motor coach, I told him, “Oh, by the way, did you know that the Malibu and the Grand Am and the Alero are towable?” It made my day when we picked him up with the tour train, he held up a set of Malibu keys. That, that was sweet knowing that I helped sell that car and we, we like to think, uh, those of us that were with the tour program, we like to think we sold a lot of cars over the years ‘cause that’s what it’s all about, uh, tellin’ the story, changing people’s, uh, perception of auto workers and if we can, like’m to buy our product as well. Doug Rademacher: [88:17] Lyle, you, um, have done many things over the years but can you tell me how has the, your relationship with Fisher Body plant carried over into your own community? Did you do anything for schools? Do you do anything for…? Lyle Birchman: Oh yeah. Um, yeah. I was pretty busy. Uh, I’ll never forget, my, my daughter was in 5th grade and that’s typically when they start playing a musical instrument in school band and our next-door neighbor dragged me to a band booster meeting, you know, okay, I’ll go. And I’d been a volunteer at the, uh, the Eagle Park for a number of years prior to that. My wife and I both worked at the Eagle Fair. It’s a little town outside of Lansing and the whole facility there, everything from the banquet facilities to the grandstand, all the buildings, uh, the Eagle Park, those of us in 602 are very familiar with that because we have our annual picnic there. But, uh, I, my wife and I built a house just north of Eagle back beginning in ’81 and we got to know all of the friends and neighbors, so we started volunteering at the park. And, you know, that park is built without a dime of government money, so I did a lot of work with that. But back to the band booster thing, um, when we went to the meeting, the whole board resigned. And the next meeting I went to I ended up being elected band booster president so, uh, [laughter] that was kind of crazy. And at the time they had just gone through two band directors. The high school marching band was down to I think 18 or 20 kids. The uniforms were old and worn. So it was a, it was an interesting challenge in that I had never ran [throat clearing] meetings or dealt with irate parents. Everybody had their own agendas. There was one guy, uh, he, he was bent, just bound and determined that they were going to still go on that, uh, every four years they’d go on a Florida trip, as if that was a reason why you take band. I, I always thought it was to learn how to play an instrument and have fun playing music, you know. But, you know, dealing with that type of thing it was a real challenge but we did get the uniforms, uh, smoothed over the whole Florida trip thing. Because I knew in my heart we need to get these kids decent uniforms they could wear and be proud of and that would help build the numbers and rebuild the band and fortunately, uh, a few other people stepped up and the two in particular stepped up in a big way and we were able to turn the program around and I feel real good about that. I backed away from that over the years and took up coaching soccer. My wife, bless her heart, she kinda inspired me to do that. She’s a natural coach. We’ll watch a basketball game or a football game, she points all these things out and I’m going “oh yeah.” I think when our youngest one graduates she’ll probably get back into coaching like teenage soccer. She, she coached like three years of undefeated soccer for our middle daughter. They, they’re, they just had a great team but they also had a great coach. So my wife and I we did a lot of coaching and then more recently I volunteered with the athletic boosters out there in Portland and did a lotta good with that program and I’ve since backed away from that. Probably the, the longest running volunteer program I’ve ever done is the Bluegrass Revival Band that started 19 years ago, uh, as a result of that UAW GM Talent Contest and that is a nonprofit thing. All we ever get is a little gas money and maybe a bite to eat occasionally and it all goes back into the group to buy equipment and to just maintain expenses, uh, to keep the microphones up, all that. And that’s probably been one of the most wonderful experiences arising other than being married to Brenda, arising out of my relationship with General Motors and, and the UAW is the fact that, uh, you know, uh, this group of union brothers put this band together and we’re still doin’ it. And, you know, Don early on he said, “Lyle, you’re going to meet some of the nicest people in the world.” And he was right. We’ve met terrific people all across the state of Michigan and it’s been a wonderful time. Prior to that, I played a lot of bars and, you know, you have people that had a bit too much to drink and get stupid and secondhand smoke. Uh, playing these church gigs, you don’t have secondhand smoke or obnoxious drunks and, and a lot of times they feed you afterwards so [laughter] it’s great, you know, and, uh, that, that’s been a wonderful experience. We’re working on our sixth album. Uh, we’re going to record another one over the winter. Doug Rademacher: [93:07] Is there any other story, Lyle, that you have wanted to share that we haven’t [inaudible 93:11]? Lyle Birchman: Uh, just, uh, you know, what a great experience doing the tours was and I felt a deep responsibility to every, everybody in the organization to make sure that every time – it’s like show business. If you go on a stage, it, it – you do not mention anything if you me-, well, we messed up on this. Remember the second chorus how we got off key? You don’t do that. [throat clearing] It’s show time and I always took it very seriously when you, you went out there in front of the people and you, you, you gave the very best every time. If you were sick, if you didn’t feel bad, you’re having a bad day, it didn’t matter. When you have this group of people that, that came to your plant, it was such as an honor and a pleasure and a privilege to represent everybody, not just the sisters and brothers of UAW 602 but also the management counterparts, everybody, and the city of Lansing. And I feel real good about that one because I, I think we did a lot of good on that. Uh, one of the other programs that came about out of that tour program, uh, I, I had a call from a school, Union City. It was a little too far to drive, they didn’t have a lot of money for buses, so the idea went off in my head, well, why don’t I bring the tour to you? So we had a, a, a little video that we would always [throat clearing] play for everybody, a little preview and I took that video down there and we set up in the, uh, in, in the library and they herded in two classes at a time. And talk about being on the spot again just flyin’ by the seat of my pants, never had any training on this thing but, uh, it was a hoot. I just loved workin’ with the kids and John Rosendahl, bless his heart, he gave me free rein to develop that program. I called it the Classroom [throat clearing] Visit Program and I sincerely hope that we can implement something along those lines in the future ‘cause it, it evolved. Initially, that first day and the following days when – and I started doing’m more often, I realized I could talk to 250 people by noon whereas with the tour train, the best we could do is maybe 60, 70 people [throat clearing] on a given day but by doing two groups at a time. And I would go to them so it would save them money, they didn’t have to hire a bus driver and a lot of these school districts are so strapped. But one of the things that evolved from that whole Classroom Visit Program is I started to turn it into a motivational seminar to study and to this day I still get calls from teachers that ask me to come. There’s a career class out, out west of here, a small town, and that guy still calls me to come and address his class because what I do is I talk about the UAW, I talk about GM, I talk about what’s going on in Lansing but I also talk about how it applies to each one of those kids. I’ll get that board going and we’ll start at one end and I’ll have, I’ll get that interaction going and we’ll talk about career choices. And, you know, I, I remember the last one I did, this girl held up her hand and I, or I asked her what she wanted to do. She says, “Well, I want to, I want to be a hairdresser.” And I feel good about this one ‘cause, uh, I happened to talk to her dad a couple weeks later and he just got the biggest kick out of it. I asked her, I said, “Well, how many chairs do you want in your shop and how many shops do you want to have?” And what I was able to do is put it in her mind that she didn’t just have to be a hairdresser, did she? She could own her own shop or a whole string of’m and it’s, that’s what it’s all about is encouraging these kids and give’m, widen their horizons. And, uh, a lot of times if it was a middle school class, I’d point out the fact that “Hey, you have four years of free school. Don’t spend $12,000 as a freshman taking remedial math for instance. Take those math classes now. Make it count.” And I, I always felt really, really good about that and that, that was a very rewarding experience and I’m grateful for, to John that he allowed me to go do that. Um, I’m grateful that the UAW had that program to begin with and, you know, it’s just funny how things will get going and, uh, you can run with it. Uh, a number of years ago they pulled the plug on the program and that was a sad day to see that come. Uh, an equally sad day was the, the last day when we had our open house. The, the plant was about to close. People came in from all over, retirees, folks I hadn’t seen in years, and we did the train and it was – it tugged at your heart, you know. We did, uh, uh, an abbreviated tour and what it was is, uh, every year we would do this, Bring Your Child to Work day and that last couple years they’d at least get me off the line to do Bring Your Child to Work day but that last Bring Your Child to Work day was literally an open house for the plant. It was all the end of it and it was, it was touching, you know. Uh, knowing that it was the last day that you were out there and we, we ran the train, every 20 minutes we’d have another group of people and I’d play the harmonica. And [Joe Jodeway 98:27] and I, uh, we, I’d make sure everybody gave Joe a big hand ‘cause he, you know, he, he did a great job driving. [throat clearing] And we all, we had a ball that day. Uh, we did it that day and that night but that was the last day we ran the train and the plant closed shortly thereafter. Marilyn Coulter: Lyle, Marilyn Coulter. [98:45] Question, did you bring your harp today? Lyle Birchman: Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: [98:49] Will you allow them to hear what we hear, what, what, what we’ve heard for so many years, for a brief period? Lyle Birchman: Yeah. And I’m going to tell you a story, all right? Marilyn Coulter: Okay. Lyle Birchman: Can you stop that just a second while I get it off. [clicking] Uh, one of the things that as tour guide coordinator, uh, again, you know, we had a relationship with the Visitors Bureau and a lot of folks in Lansing, uh, we had the, uh, the Automotive History Corridor Program through the [throat clearing] National Parks Service and attending these meetings they were talking about recording interviews with senior citizens in a given area and a year ago, uh, Kevin Beard and I we’re, we were coordinating all these activities for the Jobs Bank program, I, I remembered that, you know, back when we were doing the National Automotive History Corridor Program through the Parks Service, they used to meet at the Historical Museum, they had this program where they would interview senior citizens and retirees to capture history. Kevin and I talked about it and, uh, Kevin, probably one of the smartest guys I know, he, uh, knew people at Michigan State University. Somewhere along the line, Doug Rademacher was contacted and other people and, uh, this whole history project has taken shape. I feel pretty good about this one. But Marilyn, to answer your question about the, playing the harmonica… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lyle Birchman: …back in, uh, I, I was on the night shift on the C system in, uh, doing water test and we used to have this thing called the wagon break and we were literally the last plant that enjoyed this benefit. Marilyn Coulter: [100:28] Can you tell us what that was? Lyle Birchman: And the plant would shut down for six minutes at a given time in the morning and a six-minute period in the afternoon and the folks from the cafeteria pushed these little carts out and there would be a coffee, uh, urn there and there would be a hot water urn and they’d have all sorts of cookies and all sorts of junk food and chips and, you know, we could go and buy this stuff and have a cup of coffee and this was something that had always been there, not always but it was a negotiated benefit. And I really loved the wagon break. We all did. Y-, you could turn that six-minute break into a little longer ‘cause you could work up the line a little bit. Well, in negotiations they, uh, that was one of the things that went away. And it’s kind of touching really, uh, they used to have a PA where you could just walk up to a phone and get on the PA and off and on over the years I’d play a tune or two, you know, play a Christmas song at the holidays or play somethin’ fired up right before changeover, get the people riled up out there in C Trim. I worked out there in, in the water test booth at the time and the, the wagon break, it was the last wagon break in General Motors and this is what I did. I got on the PA and I said, “Hey, this is for the last wagon break in General Motors.” It was on the night shift, it was a Friday night, it literally was the last wagon break for General Motors and in honor of that I did this. [playing Auld Lang Syne on harmonica] I played the whole song but for this I’ll just do that but, uh, [throat clearing] and that was kind of a moving night, you know, the, the end of a era. And we’ve seen a lot of ends of the era, you know, but an incredible future with this Delta plant kickin’ in. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Lyle Birchman: Hopefully they’ll let me play something on the PA over there to kick it off, I don’t know. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: Lyle, it’s just been a wonderful opportunity to have your story today. We appreciate you taking the time to come in and share it with those people that will hear this and have no clue about what the auto industry was all about and what goes on inside the four walls of an assembly plant and I want to thank you. Lyle Birchman: Thank you. Marilyn Coulter: Thank you. Male: Thank you. /mlc