Mickey Casteel discusses his career as a production worker and UAW Member at the Fisher Body plant in Lansing, MI Doreen Howard: Okay. Um, it is October 14, 2005, approximately 9:45 a.m. [paper rustling] We're at the Lansing Car Assembly. Um, we are – This – I am Doreen Howard [background noise] and I will be interviewing, along with my coworkers, uh, Mickey Casteel. Um, [00:22] Mickey, could you please state your name and spell your last name and your address please? Mickey Casteel: Mickey Casteel, C-A-S-T-E-E-L. 189 South Main, Woodland, Michigan. Doreen Howard: Okay. Um, I'd like to go around the room, have anyone, everyone introduce themselves please. Doug Rademacher: Doug Rademacher. Cheryl McQuaid: Cheryl McQuaid. Linda Johnson: Linda Johnson. Marilyn Coulter: Marilyn Coulter. John Fedewa: John Fedewa. Michael Fleming: Mike Fleming. Doreen Howard: Okay. Um, [pen clicking] we'll get out some a the [sigh] biographical data here. [00:53] Um, are, are you married and do you have any children? [pen clicking] Mickey Casteel: I'm married. I've been married for – [typing] It'll be 33 years the, uh – in December. I have 3 children; 2 boys and a girl 30, 28, and [snapping] 23. [snapping] Doreen Howard: And, [typing] um, do you have any, uh, formal education or… Mickey Casteel: No. Doreen Howard: …any training? Mickey Casteel: Just, just high school. Doreen Howard: High school education? And any military service at all? [paper rustling] Mickey Casteel: No. No military. Doreen Howard: Okay. Um, I wanna start out with, um, [pen clicking] your date of hire. [1:32] When did you hire in? And tell me about that first day. What, what was your impressions of Fisher Body? Mickey Casteel: Well, I've hired in twice. I hired in in 1973 [background noise] and worked for 5 months and then I got laid off because of the, uh, gas recession. The recession back in '73? And as luck would have it, both times I hired in, I hired in at the exact same spot, the exact same foreman. Uh, O. J. Richardson was the foreman both times. [typing] Both times on the day shift. And the, uh, – Where I hired in, it was called the, uh, wheelhouse assembly. And it was kind of an offline job so I got kinda lucky there. I hired right in on an offline job and they were pretty hard ta get back then. [typing] Doreen Howard: [2:24] Was this, uh, Body Shop? Mickey Casteel: In the Body Shop. [typing] Doreen Howard: [2:28] And what, uh – Did you work first shift… Mickey Casteel: On, on the… Doreen Howard: …or second? Mickey Casteel: …day shift. Doreen Howard: On the day shift? Mickey Casteel: Both times I've hired in, both times on the day shift. Uh, the first time, I only made it about 2 or 3 months and then I was put on the night shift – bumped on the night shift. And the second time, I stayed on the day shift for almost 4 years. Female: Oh. Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. Cheryl McQuaid: [2:49] W-, w-, when did you hire in… Doreen Howard: Yeah… Cheryl McQuaid: …the second time? Doreen Howard: …the second time? Mickey Casteel: 1976. Doreen Howard: Oh. Okay. So, Body Shop. [2:59] So explain about that first job that you were put on. What, what did you do? And what was, what did your day consist of? [typing] Mickey Casteel: Well, I used ta build up the, uh, wheel housings in what they call a, a buck, where they brought all the components in and, and spot weld'm together. Well, then somebody would put that on a, a monorail and my first job both times was to spray deadener on the, uh – It'd be the outside of the, uh, wheel housing but it would be th-, the part that was inside a the car, inside a the fenders and, uh, quarter panels. Doreen Howard: [3:38] And deadener is… Mickey Casteel: It's just a, uh, uh, somethin' that, uh, quiets the road sounds and stuff like that. Doreen Howard: So it's like the soundproofing… Mickey Casteel: Sound… Doreen Howard: …agent? Mickey Casteel: … proofing-type things, yes. Michael Fleming: So Mickey… Mickey Casteel: Yes? Michael Fleming: …[3:52] you, you sprayed deadener in the Body Shop? [paper rustling] Mickey Casteel: Yeah. It was a, uh… Michael Fleming: [4:01] Did ya have a booth or anything… Mickey Casteel: Yeah. Michael Fleming: …like that? Mickey Casteel: It was, it was in a booth. There was a booth, uh, down in the, uh, Body Shop there. That's about all I can call it… Michael Fleming: Uh, but… Mickey Casteel: …is deadener. Michael Fleming: [Inaudible 4:11]. I, I ask that question because it's just moved and I was wondering… Mickey Casteel: Yeah. Michael Fleming: …if you did it, if you did it open air? [4:19] Was it, uh – What kind of equipment did you have to spray that? Mickey Casteel: That was a spray gun. It was in a, uh, a booth that had, uh, water comin' down to catch all the overspray and, and the stuff that didn't get onto the, [typing]the wheel housings. Michael Fleming: [4:35] What did ya think about [inaudible 4:37]? [pen clicking] [typing] Mickey Casteel: Well, at first I didn't like it very well, but after a while, it – I got used to the job and it wasn't all that bad. [typing] Doreen Howard: [4:47] Can you describe what [pen clicking] – like some of the dimensions of the booth and the actual environment and some of the protective equipment maybe that you had ta have in order to go into that booth to do your job? Mickey Casteel: Well, back then, you didn't have ta have an awful lot of protective [laughter] equipment. [typing] It's, uh – Ya had gloves and, uh, glasses with side shields. You were pretty well covered [typing] as far as protective equipment. That was quite a while ago; 30 years ago. Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. [typing] Mickey Casteel: The size of the booth was approximately 16 foot long and then it was just wide enough for you ta spray on one side and then just turn right around and not hardly move at all and spray on the other side, so. Uh, the total booth was probably 8 foot wide but what I had to stand [typing] on was maybe 2 foot. Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. Now you said that there was water. [5:46] Was the, was that a [tapping] grating system in there? [typing] In the, in… Mickey Casteel: Well, they pump the water up… Doreen Howard: …in… Mickey Casteel: …above [typing] and it run down the wall, so that, uh, all the overspray would catch. Y'know, the water would catch that and take it down in and then they would filter it out and just repump the water right back. [typing] Doreen Howard: So, so the, the overspray was heavy and that would fall into the [snapping] water and then be… Mickey Casteel: Well, it would… Doreen Howard: …it wouldn't be… Mickey Casteel: …[shove 6:10] past the… Doreen Howard: …in the air? Mickey Casteel: It would shoot past the, uh, wheel housing and would catch in the water runnin' down the wall. Doreen Howard: Oh, okay. Okay. [6:20] And how long did you do that job? Mickey Casteel: Uh, not very long. Maybe 2 months both times. [typing] It, uh, it was a popular job so a new hire didn't usually stay on that very long. [typing] Doreen Howard: [6:34] Was there [typing] any initial initiation that you went through when you first came in, in that particular job? Did they have any pranks that they'd pull on the person comin' in? [typing] Mickey Casteel: No. I – not really. Not, not on that job. Doreen Howard: Not on that particular one? Okay. Um, so 2 months there. Then where did you go to? Mickey Casteel: Well, I ended up where most everybody else ends up in the Body Shop, in the jungle. What they call a jungle. It, uh, it's spot welding. The, the cars run down the line and it, it kinda looks like a jungle with all the, the welders [typing] hangin' down. And [paper rustling] you've got certain welds that you have to [paper rustling] weld and you, you grab a gun and weld, y'know, maybe have a dozen welds on one part and push that gun back and grab another one. You might have 2 or 3 guns at each station. [typing] Michael Fleming: [7:33] Would you share that vision [typing] of, uh, when ya first saw it and someone else was workin' in there and those sparks were flying? What w-, were ya thinking when you were taken down ta that particular area? Mickey Casteel: [laughter] [typing] Well, I guess what I was hopin' is I was hopin' that, uh, I wasn't gonna get hit by too many of'm. But, uh, I learned real quick that everybody gets'm. Most of the time, you get'm from somebody else. The guy behind ya or in front of ya would be weldin' [typing] and if they've got a little bit of dirt or the-, they spot weld or a little, y'know, oil or somethin', it, it shoots out and sometimes it gets you pretty good. Michael Fleming: [8:15] What exactly would get you? What d'ya mean, "get ya?" Mickey Casteel: The, uh, sparks from the, uh – That's basically molten met-, metal is what it is. Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. Mickey Casteel: And I've seen'm spark so bad that they blew a hole in the, the metal. Doreen Howard: [Inaudible 8:33]. Mickey Casteel: And they'd have ta have somebody, uh, take, uh, like a bin welder and weld up that particular spot. Doug Rademacher: Now those jobs made you wear coveralls. [8:43] Didja ever have anyone start on – You ever seen anyone catch on fire? I know for, uh, a fact that people that had lon-, long hair or somethin, they were, uh, always in jeopardy down in there. Mickey Casteel: Well, they – I've seen several people catch on fire. [Inaudible 8:58]. One guy was – smoked and, uh, he had a packet of matches in his breast pocket. Doreen Howard: Oh. Mickey Casteel: The – He caught the matches on fire. [laughter] He did a dance [laughter] from that. Cheryl McQuaid: [9:16] So was he hurt? Mickey Casteel: Was it good? Cheryl McQuaid: Was he, was… Marilyn Coulter: Hurt. Cheryl McQuaid: …he hurt? Mickey Casteel: Oh, no. He didn't. I didn't see too many people get hurt. Uh, it was more of a [typing] – Y'know, you, you've been through it and it's, y'know, kinda funny ta see somebody else dance around. You – It's not funny when it happens to you but it's real funny when it happens ta somebody else. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: [9:41] But it was all in a day's work, wasn't it? Mickey Casteel: Yeah. It's… Doug Rademacher: Happened every week? Happened pretty much every day? Mickey Casteel: Happened every minute. [laughter] Somebody was dancin' around most every minute. Doreen Howard: [9:54] Now how long did you work in that particular area? [typing] Mickey Casteel: Um, maybe 3 or 4 months. Doreen Howard: Oh. So you've been… Mickey Casteel: Um, the one good thing that I've always enjoyed about, uh, GM is that if you don't like your job, put in a transfer and move on. Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. So… Mickey Casteel: And I, I've done that quite a bit. Doreen Howard: [10:21] So, so where'd you move on to after that? Mickey Casteel: Well, I hung door hinges. Doreen Howard: Oh, okay. Mickey Casteel: And then I got bumped off from that job. I just – That job – When I hung the door hinges on – What it was is [typing] they would come in with a, a 4 x 4 foot basket with hinges in it and you would take a front hinge and a rear hinge [typing] and go up to the car and, and loosely secure them with bolts that they supplied. Well, that was another job that somebody else wanted, so they bumped me off that and I ended up puttin' in trunk locks. [typing] And I probably was in the Door Department, uh, [throat clearing] – That first 4 years, I probably was in the Door Department 3½ of it. And I – And while I was in the Door Department, I ran the utility job. [typing] I hung doors, I, I, uh, y'know, did anything that was in the Door Department, uh, repair. If some – If, uh – A repair job consisted of if somebody couldn't get a bolt in or if, uh, the screw hole wasn't, um, tapped, they would either replace the, the – There's a little plate that's got – That they fasten'm to. They'd replace that or somethin' like that. [typing] Put a bolt in or change the doors. If the door got dented somehow, we'd change the doors. [typing] Uh, I never had that job per se – own that job. But I, I ran it while I was on utility quite a bit. Michael Fleming: When you were in that Door Department [typing] back then, and the doors were, I believe, probably much larger then than what we have in here now… Mickey Casteel: Oh, yeah. They… Michael Fleming: [12:21] Talk about the difference in the doors then, now. [sneezing] Talk about what's your, what, what your area looked like? What, what was goin' on up there? Mickey Casteel: Well, back in the, uh,'70s we still had – we were still buildin' Toronados and they, they [typing] were about an 80-pound door. Doreen Howard: Mm. Mickey Casteel: So [typing] it – You didn't really wanna see Toronados [laughter] come very often. And we done that for a while and then, uh, they started gettin' into the ergonomics and they did – They got us some, uh, assists but you still had ta pick the door up outta the, the rack, [typing] which was [throat clearing] excuse me – Usually came with 13 doors in a, a rack. A fork truck driver would, uh, take the empty rack out and put a, a fresh rack in. You still had ta take the doors outta the rack to put'm on the, uh, lift assist. [typing] Doreen Howard: [13:22] Now what time frame [typing] was – did the ergonomics issues start, um, comin' inta play? When was that? Mickey Casteel: Well, I don't [inaudible 13:32] remember. [typing] Uh, probably '79, '80. Somewheres in there. Doreen Howard: So early '80s? [typing] Mickey Casteel: They started talkin' about it an' we used it a little bit. [typing] But it was – Most a the people, they decided they could do it better without'm… Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. Mickey Casteel: …a lotta times. Doreen Howard: Hm. Mickey Casteel: It was [typing] hard ta get a lotta the people to switch over to the ergonomics because they'd been doin' it for so long. And back then, we were, y'know, quite a bit younger [typing] and thought we could do it quicker without the, the, uh, lift assist, so we could, uh, maybe read the paper or do somethin' that we probably [typing] wasn't supposed to be doin' like throwin' gloves or… [laughter] Michael Fleming: [14:21] Um, did you perform that – You said about 4 years or 3½ years in the Door Department? [typing] Mickey Casteel: Yeah. Michael Fleming: Didja have the same supervisor? [typing] Mickey Casteel: Well, they, they would, uh, rotate their supervisors. But, uh – No, I, I had, uh, [snapping] Dick Dowler and, uh – Well, Dick Dowler's the one I remember. He, he was one that, uh, everybody remembered. Michael Fleming: Is there a particular reason why we remember Dick? Mickey Casteel: Uh, kind of a backstabber. [laughter] Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. [throat clearing] Mickey Casteel: He would hide around the [typing] corner or get somewheres where he could see ya an' see if you were workin'. Doug Rademacher: Well, the line was runnin'. [15:09] Ya had ta be workin', didn't ya? Mickey Casteel: Well, sometimes [typing] they expected ya ta stay right there and not, uh, read your paper or anything. [typing] Doreen Howard: Hm. Doug Rademacher: [15:21 So did there come a time when you left the Body Shop and went to a different department? [typing] Mickey Casteel: I, uh, left the Body Shop and I went into the, uh, inspection group [typing] and I did that for approximately 7 or 8 months. I – What I did there was, uh, inspected the bodies to see if there was any dents or dings or, or stuff like that. [typing] And what that consisted of, they gave ya a mitt and you would rub your hand over the surface of the, the quarter panel and the doors and then you'd just record how many dents and dings you found and, and circle'm. [typing] And then the metal finish people would, uh, poke out the, the, y'know – Take a, uh – [tsk] I can't think what it's called, but it's a, a, metal rod is what it is. They'd reach inside the door and push the dent back out. Then they'd file it off and sand it off and make it smooth so they could paint the car. [typing] Get it ready for painting basically. And then I, uh, went from there. I had the opportunity to go in what they called the [fish bowl 16:42]. And that was in [snapping] the, uh – up in the office. [typing] And we took all the, the data that these people were rubbin' the cars and, and recordin' the dents and dings. We would go through and, and count'm and condense this for the, the morning meeting for the, uh, supervisors and higher up [typing] for their morning meetings. I… Cheryl McQuaid: [17:08] Why did you condense that information? Why did they want that [background noise] information condensed? Mickey Casteel: Well, it'd be a lot easier ta, ta have one sheet of paper [typing] than a half a dozen [throat clearing] big sheets of paper ta go in there and, y'know, in the conference room and say, "Well, we've got, uh, 40 dings," or, or somethin' like that. That's just condensin' material. Taking raw material and makin' smaller, more useable. Cheryl McQuaid: [17:41] Did you have any e-, training in that area of putting it in a simplified form for them? Mickey Casteel: No. They just took us in a, a room and we kinda learned. The first, uh, 6 of us [typing] kinda learned our, uh, on our own, trial and error, what they wanted, what they didn't want. They'd tell ya if they didn't like what ya did. Then we just – If somebody else come in, we just gave'm a crash course a what they wanted, what they didn't want. [typing] Cheryl McQuaid: Sounds like a preferred job. Mickey Casteel: Yeah. I, I'm sure it was. Doreen Howard: Hm. [18:21] And how long… Mickey Casteel: I started out… Doreen Howard: …did you… Mickey Casteel: …uh… Doreen Howard: …do that? Mickey Casteel: I did that, uh, about a year. Doreen Howard: About a year. Mickey Casteel: I started out with, with like 3½, 4 years, uh, and when they finally got – I got eliminated outta there, there was people with 25 years in… Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. Mickey Casteel: …that bumped me out of it. Doreen Howard: Hm. [18:47] So then where'd you go after that? Mickey Casteel: Then I went back to rubbin' the cars on – That's when I went to the night shift. Doreen Howard: So it's all been – So basically was in the, the Body Shop realm at that time. Mickey Casteel: Yeah. I was still in the Body Shop. I, I stayed in the Body Shop… Doreen Howard: [Inaudible 19:02]. Mickey Casteel: …for quite a while. Uh, then I didn't want ta be on nights, so I started lookin' around and I found a job that, uh – putting hinges back on. But, uh, they had a, uh, uh, what they called the door shuttle then. That's back – Approximately when the [background noise] uh, Grand Am came in, they had what they called the door shuttle. And there again, we loosely put the hinges on the doors this time and the doors went into this machine and they put a – Another person put a header [coughing] in the buck and the machine tightened down the hinges and, and welded the headers. And then somebody else took'm off the end of th-, that machine, put'm back [ratcheting] in the rack and they took them on down the line and, and put'm on the cars. Doreen Howard: Mm. So moving forward, [snapping] um, where did you go after that last – After your QC inspection? Did – You said you went back and you did the doors… Mickey Casteel: Yeah. Doreen Howard: …again for a while. Mickey Casteel: Then I went [snapping] into the door shuttle. Doreen Howard: And then… Mickey Casteel: And then, uh, they eliminate that, eliminated that out and I went out on the line. And what they did was they, they got rid of the door shuttle and they moved that operation right out on the line. So then, uh, we had 2 people on each side a the line that would put the hinges on and affix the headers on. Doreen Howard: Hm. Mickey Casteel: And we would rotate that job. I's do, [squeaking] y'know, like an hour [squeaking] on one part a the job and an hour on the other part a the job. [background noise] Then you'd finish weldin'. What it was is, uh, we'd both put hinges on, uh, on 2 racks, and then my partner, he would, uh, [snapping] put the door into the machine and put the header in and it would, [whispering] it would fix it or it would put it on or, uh, y'know, attach it. And then it would [shuttle 21:15] down and I would finish weldin' the header on and take it, all that, and put it in a, uh, another holder and, uh, we had somebody that would put the door on the car. Doreen Howard: [21:29] Now your current position is? Mickey Casteel: [background noise] City driver. Doreen Howard: City driver. [21:35] And [background noise] can you explain what a city driver [typing] is and what your job entails? Mickey Casteel: Well, the city driver is a, uh, basically [typing] a, a parts chaser. He, he, uh – If, uh – We just built the bodies here, so i-, if, uh, the main plant needed, uh, like a door rubber or door glass or a mirror or somethin' like that, I would [typing] get it from one of the docks here and take it over to Building 90 Repair, which would be final repair. They, they repaired everything on the car just before [coughing] [typing] they shipped it to the dealers. Doreen Howard: [typing] So you were the, the, basically the gofer. Mickey Casteel: Yeah. [typing] Doreen Howard: If somethin' needed to be fixed, you'd come over here, grab it, and, and return it to them? Mickey Casteel: They would, they would call, uh, the person over here that [typing] needed ta get it and he would radio me and I would come get it and take it over. [typing] And then part of my job was to be the backup driver for the body haulers. People that hauled bodies from Fisher Body [typing] or Plant 6 over to the main plant, where they finished puttin' the, the, uh, interiors and the, uh, wheels and undercarriage and motors. Doreen Howard: [23:08] So now in the city driver, what type of vehicle did you d-, actually drive in that job? Mickey Casteel: I drive a 1-ton Chevy stake rack truck. Has about an 8-foot, 7 x 8-foot bed and it's a smaller truck, so I can get into the buildings. [typing] I deliver stuff to Building 32 and Building 90 and Building 150. 150 had, uh – is where they changed all the sheet metal. Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. [typing] Mickey Casteel: If you had a, a door yet, uh, dented up, they would take it off there and order a new, painted door and I'd take it over there and they would put the, the new one on so they could get it ready ta ship ta the dealer, ta the customer. Doreen Howard: [23:59] And how many people is there in your group? Is there just you or is there more people that are… Mickey Casteel: Well, in my group… Doreen Howard: …city drivers? Mickey Casteel: …there was, uh, um, [rustling] 7 of us but there's only 1 city driver. Our – The group consisted of all the [rustling] people that drove, which would be the mail – the person that delivers mail, and the – from plant to plant, and the Olds haul drivers that, uh – the body hauler. Cheryl McQuaid: [24:30] Mickey, why did you hire in to Fisher Body? Do you remember your… Mickey Casteel: Why? Cheryl McQuaid: …reason? Yeah. Mickey Casteel: Benefits. [throat clearing] Linda Johnson: [24:37] Also for your job [typing] as a driver, didn't you have to have ta take some special driving classes? And did you do that on company time? Your own time? Did GM pay for it? Mickey Casteel: GM paid for it. I did it on company time. They paid me, uh, 40 hours to go to [typing] Battle Creek to, uh, LCC truck driving school. I, uh, I guess I, y'know, I guess you could call that formal education but… Cheryl McQuaid: Yeah, y'know? Mickey Casteel: …uh… Cheryl McQuaid: [Inaudible 25:10]. Mickey Casteel: …I have a CDL, class A CDL. Doreen Howard: Okay. Doug Rademacher: That's great. Cheryl McQuaid: Um, really, [rustling] I, I really wanna hear more about the Body Shop and your experience there. [typing] [25:22] Um, were you a part of any of the dinners or did you – I mean were there – Was it like pot luck dinners? Did you participate in all those? Could you tell me a little bit more about the, the Body Shop environment an' bein' out there with everybody? The camaraderie? [typing] You touched base on – Y'know, you'd kinda liked ta get a-, get those [coughing] doors hung so that you could read the paper and do things that you weren't supposed to do like throw some gloves. Could you tell me a little bit more about the environment that you worked in? [rustling] Mickey Casteel: Well, the [typing] environment in the, uh, Body Shop was – Pretty much everybody was in the same boat. They, they were – We were still young. Uh, there was quite a, uh, turnover as far as employees [typing] because, uh, you've – Go like 1946, when, when WWII was finished, [phone vibrating] a large people, a large number of people hired in and then they got their 30 years in and they retired. So there was, there was close to a thousand people when I hired in an' in a matter of maybe a year, year and a half that retired and more people hired in. So we were pretty much all same age and in the same, same boat where we were all pretty new and probly didn't know better. [laughter] Knew better, but we couldn't resist, I guess [laughter] you'd say. Linda Johnson: [27:04] So what was some a the pranks that you guys used to do to each other? Mickey Casteel: Oh, [throat clearing] [pause] we had one, one guy. He was kinda afraid a mice, so we'd cut a finger off [tapping] a dirty glove and put it in, just inside the car, so when he'd walk up ta the car, he'd see that and think it was a mouse. [laughter] Linda Johnson: Uh, there was a lotta mice runnin' around in this place. [laughter] Mickey Casteel: Well, that's, that's, that's what made it so good is because there was so mice, so many mice [typing] and rats runnin' around. It's – [yawning] People who don’t always get all their food and stuff in the trash cans, so they have plenty ta eat around here. Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. Hm. So, um, between the Body Shop and city driver, [typing] [28:04] how did you transition from the Body Shop to the city driver? Wh-, what did you do in between that [inaudible 28:09] [typing] Mickey Casteel: Well, I, uh, I went from puttin' hinges on the doors, or I'm doin' the doors, I went to what they call SPC and that's, uh, Statistical Processing, where I would go out and I would measure the gaps in the doors [typing] and, uh, then go back and talk ta the skilled trades and, and, uh, have them move the door in or out or up or down to m-, y'know, to make the fit better. [typing] We were getting', getting, uh, into the fits and finishes quite a bit then and that was a job I've probly had for the longest. I think I had that, uh, about 13 years. [typing] And that was a, that was a good job. It was a, it was a preferred job. it was one of the jobs that, uh, once you got on it, you couldn't be bumped because it was a, uh – They – You had, uh, [sniffing] [throat clearing] [typing] training. I, I didn't go to any schooling but it was training and in the plant to use what they call a [Data Mite 29: 34] and that's, uh, just a, a data collection machine. Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. [29:41] What type of data did it collect? Mickey Casteel: Well, the, the fits and finishes. The gaps in the doors. They, they wanted ta make sure the gap was, uh, [typing] consistent from the top of the door ta the bottom of the door. And then wanted to make sure that, uh, the front of the header was the same distance away from the body as the back of the header and the top of the door, uh. [typing] Cheryl McQuaid: [30:03] Did you enjoy that job? Mickey Casteel: [typing] Yeah. I, I did enjoy that job until it got to the point where they expected me to, to, uh, get things done that, uh, other supervisors – Supervisor level. They w-, they just, y'know – The supervisors – Our supervisors or my supervisors wouldn't, uh, use their – what I call clout, to go over and, and get other people to move things. [sniffing] And it got ta the point where they were expecting me ta, [rustling] ta move things and, uh, hollerin' because I wasn't gettin' it done and I [banging] y'know? You get to a certain point where [clicking] the supervisor just says, "No. I'm, I'm [typing] not gonna do it." And that's as far as I could take it. Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. Mickey Casteel: And I had ta h-, y'know, [background noise] somebody – A superintendent [typing] level would have ta go in there and they didn't wanna do that, so I moved on. Doreen Howard: So you've… Mickey Casteel: I used my, uh, transfer rights again and… [laughter] [typing] Doreen Howard: [Inaudible 31:19] again. Mickey Casteel: …went to, uh, underbody repair. [typing] Marilyn Coulter: So Mickey, you moved around a lot. Doreen Howard: Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: [31:27] Um, during those different times, have you had a chance to, um, [typing] make long-standing friendships with any people? Do you interact with'm outside of the plant, or? Mickey Casteel: Oh, yeah. I, I have, uh, [typing] 3 or 4 people that I, I go hunting with and I ride motorcycles with and… [coughing] [snapping] Marilyn Coulter: Y-, … Mickey Casteel: …you're bound ta [typing] [throat clearing] get a few people that you, uh, y'know, wanna see after you retire outta here. It's, it's not that, that I don't wanna see the majority [coughing] of the people. It's just that it's [coughing] not gonna happen. I, I know it's not gonna happen. Doreen Howard: Since you were in so many different areas, um, [32:17] give me your, your, um, ideas and feelings of what, what it's like to be an employee here. How, y'know how did the, um – I guess – What's the overall feeling of the GM employee? Um, you got ta see a lotta different areas. A lot more than a lot of other people ever worked in. And experience a lot of, um, different jobs. Can you, um, [whispering] explain a little bit about, y'know, [whispering] the culture as far as the people and, and their, um, [whispering] background and ways of doing things, I guess? [whispering] Mickey Casteel: Um, if I'm understanding your question, it's, uh, basically, y'know, people wanna do a good job in here. [background noise] [snapping] It's just, it – A lot of it depends on, uh, [sniffing] what Supervision'll let them do. Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. Mickey Casteel: It's, it's, uh [snapping] – Sometimes, as anybody that has worked here knows, it, uh – Sometimes [snapping] it, uh, um – Supervisors, they, they, uh, overs-, overstep their boundaries [snapping] and they, they, uh, [clicking] [coughing] seem to want to, uh, [clicking] remind everybody that they're in charge and in, y'know? Basically, everybody knows who's in charge and they just – And a lotta times, if they ju-, if you just let the people do their job, they do a good job. [sniffing] Marilyn Coulter: [34:12] M-, Mickey, were you ever involved in any of the union activities at Local [inaudible 34:16]? [snapping] Mickey Casteel: Um, unfortunately, I'd, I'd have ta say not very many. I did go to the union picnic and, and stuff like that. [rustling] But as far as bein' a, a member that went to the union hall all the time, I, I didn't seem to go to the union hall unless I had a problem… Marilyn Coulter: W-,… Mickey Casteel: …that I couldn't solve. Marilyn Coulter: Was the picnic something that you enjoyed or looked forward to every year? Mickey Casteel: Oh, yeah. They're, they're a lotta fun. Ya get ta – Y'know, even though I moved around a lot, there was a lotta people that, uh, you didn't see on a regular basis and you got ta see'm over there. It's… Marilyn Coulter: Okay. Mickey Casteel: I, I'd have ta say I, I may not miss comin' ta work when I retire but I, I will miss a lotta the people that, uh, have either moved on or – I, I've know several people that's went down to [rustling] Shreveport, Louisiana, or, or to one of the other plants, and… Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. Mickey Casteel: …likely as not, I won't s-, ever see them again. Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. Cheryl McQuaid: Did they use those transfer rights? [laughter] Mickey Casteel: Everybody, [laughter] if they know what's good for'm, they'll use their transfer rights. [laughter] [throat clearing] Doreen Howard: Now that our plant is closed and – [35:36] What, what's your feeling [tapping] on the closure of the plant and how has it affected, affected you personally? Mickey Casteel: Well, it's kinda sad. It's, uh – This is – This place has been here longer than, uh, most of us have been [sniffing] alive. Double. Y'know, this is – I'm 50, a little over 50 years old and, uh, this plant's been here for a little over 100 years, so. And [rustling] my grandfather, he, uh, worked here for about 15 minutes the way he talked. He, uh… [laughter] Cheryl McQuaid: What? [laughter] Mickey Casteel: …he, he [laughter] was leav-, – He hired in here in, uh, sometime in the '30s. Doreen Howard: Oh, my. Mickey Casteel: And [rustling] he was doin' a job and the foreman come up an' wanted him ta work a little faster an' he said the foreman told him that, uh, "There's 50 people out on the street that will take your job." He says, "Well, go find one." Went home. [laughter] So he was a farmer and he had, uh – He could make a living outta here, so he, he moved on too. Doreen Howard: [Inaudible 36:51]. Mickey Casteel: I guess he used his transfer rights. [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: [36:56] Did you have any other family work here outside of your grandfather working here? Mickey Casteel: Not in this plant. I had a, uh – My, uh, dad, he, he worked at Oldsmobile for [pause] – I don't know exactly how long he worked there. Uh, 3 or 4 years nd then, uh, he used his transfer rights and moved on. He worked at Industrial Welding after that. And then my brother, he w-, hired right in to Oldsmobile a-, right outta high school. And then he went to [background noise] Vietnam… Doreen Howard: Mm. Mickey Casteel: …and served 2 years in the, in the Army. Got drafted. And then he, uh, [sniffing] come back. He thought he could see greener pastures, so he moved on, left GM. I had an uncle that – He, uh, spent a little over 40 years as a driver driving cars off the end a the line over at Oldsmobile. [snapping] He, he had a heart attack and died waitin' ta go ta work over at Oldsmobile. [sniffing] Doreen Howard: [Inaudible 38:06]. Mickey Casteel: Then I had, uh – It would be, uh – I guess it would be a, a second cousin that was my mom's cousin. He, he spent 40 years over at Oldsmobile [background noise] and he's retired an' doin' pretty good now. And then his son worked here in Fisher Body, what I call Fisher Body, uh, and he just retired here last year with 30 years. Doreen Howard: That's a lot. Marilyn Coulter: So your family has quite a GM history. [murmuring] [Inaudible 38:34]. Mickey Casteel: Yeah. Well, as a matter of fact, uh, uh, the one that retired with 40 years? His dad and mom both worked here. His dad retired outta here and his mom just worked until they got things settled and then she, uh, stayed home with the kids, I guess. Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Great. Mickey Casteel: But that was a little bit before my time. Doreen Howard: [38:59] Now are you going to be moving on to the Delta Plant? Mickey Casteel: Yeah. I've, uh, put in my application to, to go out there. Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. And will you be doing the same position? Mickey Casteel: Uh, as, as of right now, they're not gonna have a city driver out there. And we're trying to talk'm into havin' city driver 'cause they're gonna need somebody ta chase parts. Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. Mickey Casteel: So hopefully we – They can see things my way and I'll have a city drive [laughter] job out there. [laughter] Doreen Howard: Well, in… Mickey Casteel: As of right now, we've still got [throat clearing] some talkin' ta do. Doreen Howard: Well, in, in [snapping] wrappin' up here, [39:40] is there anything at all that, that you wanted ta talk about that we haven't touched on at all? Somethin' that you wanted ta, um, ta talk about? Mickey Casteel: Oh, I, [murmuring] I don't think so. I d-,… Doreen Howard: Pretty much done. Mickey Casteel: Pretty much covered everything I think. [rustling] Doreen Howard: Okay. Was there any, um – I know there'll be a lot of new people coming inta the, the Delta Plant. Um, [40:07] is there any advice [background noise] that you could, um, offer [snapping] any of the new people coming into the plant? Mickey Casteel: [sighing] Well, no. I don't think so. I, I think basically, uh, you're gonna have people, [rustling] no matter how old they are or how young they are – People are basically gonna d-, do a good job or they're not gonna do a good job. And, uh, as a whole, I think I've seen most a the people that work here, they basically wanna do a good job. And I think that's why, uh, when GM has a new product, they always come to Lansing. They, they don't take it someplace else because they know that, uh, the workforce in Lansing's gonna do a good job and get their product out on the – in the public an', an', an', uh, have a good product out there. Doreen Howard: Yeah. The, the saying "the, the capital of quality." An', an' – okay. Well… Cheryl McQuaid: Well, Mickey, thank you… Doreen Howard: Thank you. Female: Thank you. Cheryl McQuaid:. …for your time. /lb