Eldridge Cook, African American GM Manager, discusses his career at the Fisher Body Plant in Lansing, MI Marilyn Coulter: Fisher Body Historical Team interview with Mr. Eldridge Cook, otherwise known as Cookie. The date is Tuesday, January 10. We’re in the UAW Local 602’s Frank Dryer Greenhouse. Uh, my name is Marilyn Coulter, and the other team members are... Earl Nicholson: Earl Nicholson. Gary Judy: Gary Judy. Jerri Smith: Jerri Smith. Cheryl McQuaid: Cheryl McQuaid. Marilyn Coulter: Marilyn Coulter. [00:26] Um, Mr. Cook, could you please say and spell your name for me, please? Eldridge Cook: My name is Eldridge Cook. E-L-D-R-I-D-G-E C-O-O-K. Marilyn Coulter: [00:40] And could you give us your address, please? Eldridge Cook: My address is 3725 Alpine Drive, Lansing, Michigan 9-, 48911. Marilyn Coulter: [00:52] Um, are you married? Eldridge Cook: No. Marilyn Coulter: [00:55] Do you have any children? Eldridge Cook: Yes. Marilyn Coulter: [00:58] Um, where were you born? Eldridge Cook: I was born in Houlka, Mississippi. Marilyn Coulter: [01:03] Houlka, Mississippi? Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: [01:05] And, um, your education? Eldridge Cook: I have a bachelor degree in bidnis education. Taught school 2 years in Mississippi before I came to General Motors. I taught, uh, 9th grade English, 10th grade, 11th grade, and 12th grade, uh, bookkeepin’, typin’, and shorthand for 2 years before I came to General Motors. Marilyn Coulter: [01:30] Were you ever in the military? Eldridge Cook: No, never went [through 1:32] the military, uh, I was kept out of the military to teach school in Mississippi. Marilyn Coulter: [01:39] Okay, so you were a teacher, and first of all, what brought you to Lansing, Michigan? Eldridge Cook: Uh, more money. Marilyn Coulter: [01:45] More money? Eldridge Cook: Yeah, I was comin’ to Michigan durin’ the summer working at General Motors and goin’ back teaching school in Mississippi, so after 2 years of doin’ that, I was makin’ more money durin’ the summer in General Motors than I was teachin’, so I decided to come to General Motors full time. Marilyn Coulter: [02:06] So now, how did that happen? How did you happen to come up to Michigan for... Eldridge Cook: Hm. Marilyn Coulter: ...how did you find out about that? Eldridge Cook: Well I had a brother here goin’ to school at Michigan State and he was workin’ at Oldsmobile part time and goin’ to school at State. Marilyn Coulter: Okay. Eldridge Cook: So... Marilyn Coulter: [02:22] So, uh, when [pen clicking] did you first started working here? Eldridge Cook: Ahh, I first started workin’ at GM in 196-, May of 1963. Yeah, from May to September a ’63 and went back and taught school from September to May of ’63 and ’64, came back in ’63 and ’64 May again, and taught from – worked at GM from May to September. Marilyn Coulter: [02:49] So when you worked there, were you an assembler? Eldridge Cook: Yes, I was on the assembly line puttin’ in body wires. Marilyn Coulter: [02:56] So what’d you think when you first came in there? Eldridge Cook: Well, it was somethin’ different. It started off at 2.35 an hour and that was very strange. I used to work all day for less than $3 from sun to sun. So it was quite different. Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: [03:12] So what, what’s your, what was your actual seniority date when you first… Eldridge Cook: My actual seniority date when I came back was May the 17th, 1965. The first 2 time I was 2 days short of 90 days, and in ’63, I was 2 days short, and ’64, I was 1 day short, and I didn’t have no idea about the 90-day [established 3:34] seniority rule, so I cut myself 2 years short from GM. Marilyn Coulter: Oh… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: [03:40] So now, when you were coming in in the summers to work and then leaving, how did the employees treat you knowing you were comin’ in and… Eldridge Cook: Well… Marilyn Coulter: …gonna just be here… Eldridge Cook: Well… Marilyn Coulter: …for a short moment and leave? Eldridge Cook: Yeah, at that time, uh, [Gerald Brook 03:55],was the personnel director down in Personnel, and he was lookin’ for somebody he said that really wanted to work, and I explained to him my situation that I was teachin’ school and, uh, that I’d be goin’ back in September to teach school, and he kinda went along with that for 2 years, and the third time I told’m I was gonna stay. He said well good, we’ll be glad to have you, and I stayed. Marilyn Coulter: [04:20] So actually, at that time, they used to have a lotta teachers who would come and work… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: …inside the plant Eldridge Cook: Right. Marilyn Coulter: …during the summertime, during downtime… Eldridge Cook: Right. Marilyn Coulter: …[inaudible 4:26]? Eldridge Cook: Yes. Marilyn Coulter: [04:28] So 1965… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: …you came in and you stayed? Eldridge Cook: Yes, I did. Marilyn Coulter: [04:34] Earl? Earl Nicholson: Uh, Earl Nicholson. [04:37] At that time, with you, with you coming up to the factory up in Michigan, could you tell me whatchu, what, what your opinion is of what the percentage of African Americans... [coughing] Earl Nicholson: ...and Hispanic Americans and Asian Americans were working in in the factory, at that time? Eldridge Cook: Yes, it was very few. I think we had 1 African American supervisor. At that time, I think it was Cleve Stepter. He was, I think, the first black African American on supervision at that time I came here. Yep. Earl Nicholson: [05:11] Any Mexicans? Eldridge Cook: None. Earl Nicholson: [05:13] Any Asians? Eldridge Cook: Uh, none. Earl Nicholson: And… Eldridge Cook: At that time. Earl Nicholson: [05:17] …and how many African Americans were workin’ on the floor? Eldridge Cook: Hm. Quite a few. Earl Nicholson: [05:22] Quite a few? Eldridge Cook: Yeah, but it’s – it was, the ratio was maybe 4:1, you know, [whether 05:27] they’re putting that man in [inaudible 05:30]. Marilyn Coulter: Marilyn Coulter. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: Earl brings up a good question. [05:39] In terms of climate in the 60s inside the plant versus in, in school, what was it like as far as culture in terms of being the way you’re treated? Eldridge Cook: It was, it was different, very different, but like I said, from being from the South, I had adapted to all type a different situation from the way I was brought up down South. It was very different. Marilyn Coulter: Okay. [06:06] So you’re hired in, you’re on the line… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: …do you remember what department you first started in? Eldridge Cook: Yeah, I was in, uh, the Paint Department down in wet sand. Marilyn Coulter: [06:16] And so – and what was wet sand? Eldridge Cook: Uh, they were sandin’ the bodies and runnin’ water on it to, uh, keep it cool, I guess, but that’s what they was… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Eldridge Cook: …doin’. Eldridge Cook: You have to wear rubber boots and stuff like that to keep your feet dry. Marilyn Coulter: [06:32] So when you were working in there after being – how would, how did working in the Paint Department versus working in the Trim Department where you were runnin’ wires? Eldridge Cook: Uh, no comparison. [laughter] Trim Department was a piece a cake as far as job situation and everything else. It was b – I was more adapted to that type of work than workin’ in water and wet sand. Marilyn Coulter: Hm. [06:53] How long did you work in paint? Eldridge Cook: Um, but I only worked the one summer that I was here, which was 8 or, about 9 or 10 weeks I worked and then I went back. When I came back the second time, I was in Trim Department layin’ body wires and that was much better work, and work – much better workin’ condition also. Marilyn Coulter: [07:14] So in the working conditions, how were the people? Were there any pranks that were pulled? What types of things did you do? Eldridge Cook: Yeah, it was, it was jokes pulled on ya, but like I said, coming from the South I was used to all that type a situation, so really, it didn’t bother me. Marilyn Coulter: [07:31] So… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: …are you saying that you were more less – they were more or less racial-type jokes? Eldridge Cook: It was, it was a lot of’m, but like I say, I knew where I came from and I knew what my situation was… Marilyn Coulter Hm. Eldridge Cook: …so I just heard it and didn’t hear it and kept going. My main objective was to stay at General Motors and earn a good livin’, so that my main purpose for bein’ there, so the jokes didn’t really bother me. Marilyn Coulter: [07:58] So did you find that to be so in the Trim Department also? Eldridge Cook: Uh, yes. Marilyn Coulter: Well. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: [08:07] So, um, Cheryl McQuaid? Cheryl McQuaid: [08:12] Cookie, did – were the jokes somethin’ that happened – the racial jokes, were they something ta lighten up the air between coworkers or were they hurtful and mean spirited? Eldridge Cook: Well, they – I think they were meant to be hurtful, but like I said, wit my background, my Christianity background, I just overlooked it. But like I said earlier, my main focus was being there to work and earn a livin’, you know, and that’s what I really concentrated on, that’s what I focus in. Marilyn Coulter: [08:53] So, 1965… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: …what was it like in the Trim Shop in 1965? Can you describe what the plant was like for us back then? Eldridge Cook: Yes, it was, it was 10 hours a night and that was good in a sense. [laughter] You know, it kept me busy. I’d work all night, sleep all day, get up and come back to work the next day. Yep. Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: [09:12] And so you were doin' that for 2.35 an hour? Eldridge Cook: Yeah, 2-, I started out at 2.35 an hour. Marilyn Coulter: [09:18] And, um, do – how long did you do wires? Eldridge Cook: Uh, for 3 years I laid body wires, and then I, uh, got to be a pickup [inaudible 09:29] relief man, and from there, I went on timekeepin’. In 1969, I was timekeeper for, uh, maybe 6 months and after that we – promised me a raise, and I didn’t get that, so I told him I was goin’ back on the line, which I did. Marilyn Coulter: [09:48] So Cookie, can you… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: …tell me, number 1, what's a relief person, and then number 2, what was a timekeeper and how did you get that? Eldridge Cook Uh, the relief person, they needed extra people, and I, like I say, I had been there for a while and other people was goin’ on relief, and I aksed my supervisor, “Why can’t I have a relief job?”, you know, I have some seniority, a little bit but not much, but I had as much seniority as some a the people they was puttin’ on relief, so he said, “I give ya a try”. So he did. Marilyn Coulter: [10:17] And a relief person did what? Eldridge Cook: Uh, relief – uh, we had 7 or 8 people. We had to go around and give’m breaks, [either 10:24] 10 or 12 minute 3 time a day. Yeah. Cheryl McQuaid: And… Marilyn Coulter: Cheryl. Cheryl McQuaid: Cheryl McQuaid. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Cheryl McQuaid: [10:32] Could you walk us through body wires? What is body wires and what did you do ta, to perform that job? Eldridge Cook: Well, body wires, you had a option sheet on the front a the automobile when it was comin’ down the line, and it had option on it, what type a electrical equipment went inside the car, so you had to match [sound of paper tearing] that up wit the right body wire so it would perform those, uh, you know, those functions. Yeah. Cheryl McQuaid: [10:59] So did you plug the body wires into somethin’? Eldridge Cook: No, ya just laid it on the floor and clipped it in and routed it through the door openin’s and all the way back to the backseat openin’ up. You had power for the rear door. You had to route the wires through the hole in the center post and through the door openin’. So when you put your door glass, the regulators in, we plugged in. Jerri Smith: Jerri Smith. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Jerri Smith: Um, not to get ahead of you on this, because a lotta [inaudible 11:27] won’t know that you were a supervisor in that same area. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Jerri Smith: [11:31] Did that help you understand how the workers felt about the job and how they… Eldridge Cook: [Inaudible 11:34]. Jerri Smith: …handled the job? Eldridge Cook: Yes. Jerri Smith: Because you had done it before? Eldridge Cook: Yes, it did, and it made – to me it made my job much easier. I went on supervision in 1971, and it really made my job easier because I had been there and done what the employees on the line is doin’, and I knew how difficult some a the jobs were. Marilyn Coulter: [11:56] Um, but – so can you tell me once again, what is a timekeeper? Eldridge Cook: Uh, the timekeeper was, uh, – you had – well, I had the body shop at that time, but anyway, a timekeeper was you had to go out and collect the timecard. At that time, people had to punch in and punch out, so you had to go at the end a the day and collect the timecards, take’m back to the office and add up their time and record it, so they would get a proper check [near 12:23] the end of the week. Marilyn Coulter: [12:24] And was that a job of an hourly person or salary? Eldridge Cook: No, that was salary. That was… Marilyn Coulter: Oh. Eldridge Cook: …strictly a salary employee job. Marilyn Coulter: [12:31] So now was that an increase in pay for you? Eldridge Cook: It’s ‘spose ta had been but it – after 3 months it wasn’t, so I told’m I was goin’ back ta the line, which I did. Marilyn Coulter: So, Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: And – did you have a question Earl? Earl Nicholson: Ahh, yeah, before we start. I was, uh, hoping to get this before we got to the supervision questions. Eldridge Cook: Oh, okay. Earl Nicholson: [12:51] But, uh, were you ever on strike? Eldridge Cook: Yes. Yeah, I was in that 1970 strike, and I was devastated. I had just a gotten married at ’66 and had a 2 kids, and I was gettin’ ready to go down and sign up for the welfare and everything else, and after we ended that strike in 1970, and went on supervision in 1971. Marilyn Coulter: [13:17] Do you remember what that strike was about? Eldridge Cook: Uh, I think it was about 30 an hour. It’s what I think it was about. Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: [13:25] During your time as an hourly employee, were you active or did you participate in your union activities? Eldridge Cook: Yes, I went to the meetin’s. Everytime we had a union meetin’, I was over there at the union hall. Marilyn Coulter: Mm. Eldridge Cook: But as far as being a membership – I mean, uh, active member of the u, within the union, no I was never, uh, official member. Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: Okay. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Earl Nicholson: [13:51] Now when you s-, when you say that you were never official member, I mean you were, uh, you were [a or UAW 13:55]? Eldridge Cook: Yes. Earl Nicholson: [13:57] You just weren’t active in as… Eldridge Cook: Right. Eldridge Cook: …a union, uh-oh, like a committee [inaudible 14:02]? Eldridge Cook: Right. No, that’s what I really meant. Earl Nicholson: Okay. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: [14:05] So, you went out, ya did strike, you did timekeeper… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: …you came back. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: …then in 1971… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: …you became a supervisor? Eldridge Cook: Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: [14:16] Now, how were you – um, was that somethin’ that you applied for or were you, um, quartered to do that? How? Eldridge Cook: Well, [help 14:26], uh, a year after I had gone on supervision – I, I mean before I went on supervision, I applied for supervision, and I was told that if – I couldn’t pass the test and that was really amazing to me after bein’ a schoolteacher for 2 years and had a bachelor’s degree in bidnis education and they told me I couldn’t pass the test, so I just kind of swept that under the rug. Marilyn Coulter: Okay. Okay. Eldridge Cook: So in… [pencil writing] Marilyn Coulter: Go ahead. Eldridge Cook: Yep and, uh, I took the test and theys told me I didn’t pass, so I just kinda swept – to me, I just swept that under the rug and there’s just another strike against me, so I was satisfied just goin’ back on the line. So in 1971, the, uh, they passed this law that they had ta have so many more minorities on supervision, and I guess they went back and checked my record and found out my, uh, background in bidnis education and d-, degree that I had and ,uh, [Dick Spark 15:40] was the superintendent at the time, and he had me to come in, said I was goin’ on supervision. I told him I didn’t want it. He said, yep, we gonna put you on. I said, I don’t wanna go on supervision. I just took the test while back and no one said I passed, so why are you sayin’ I’m goin’ on? He said, well Cookie, I’m goin’ to tell ya, you goin’ on whether you want it or not. You’ll be on supervision. This was on a Tuesday afternoon, and he said on Monday you will be on supervision whether you want it or not. I said, well, I’m tellin’ ya now, I don’t want it. He said, we could care less what you want. You will be on supervision Monday. So, that’s how I got on. Marilyn Coulter: [16:20] So, and you were how old when you bec-when you came into the plant? Eldridge Cook: It was ’71. When I came in the plant, I was 25. Marilyn Coulter: In so ’71. Yeah. Eldridge Cook: 31. Marilyn Coulter: 31. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: [16:31] So, you went on supervision under duress [laughter]. Eldridge Cook: Yeah, I did. Marilyn Coulter: [16:36] You was [strung16:36] [held in 16:37]. Eldridge Cook: Yeah. Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: [16:38] Do you remember the first area that you were… Eldridge Cook: Yeah… Marilyn Coulter: …supervisor in? Eldridge Cook: …the first area I had was up in [3X 16:43], uh, puttin’ in seats. Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: So, and you were in there, in the, in the Seat Department. [16:52] My first question, how did your employees react to having you as a supervisor? Eldridge Cook: Well, some reacted real good and some could tell that’s who I was and I had some refuse to take their paycheck from me because I guess my race. They wouldn’t take their paychecks from me. I had to mail them, so that didn’t bother me either. Marilyn Coulter: [17:16] So, was there any type of training that you received prior to becoming the supervisor or did they just throw ya out to the wolves? Eldridge Cook: Yep. From Tuesday I was told I’ll being on Monday, and Monday I went on with no training, no nothing. Here it is, it’s yours. So… Marilyn Coulter: [17:33] How did that work for you? Eldridge Cook: Well, I guess bein’ a Christian like I am, I put God first and that’s who was my trainer. Marilyn Coulter: [17:43] So, what was required of supervisors in 1971? Eldridge Cook: Well, our main objective was ta keep the line. That was number 1. Keep the line runnin’. Number 2 was build a good, uh, A-1 product, but number 1, keep that line runnin’, and that’s what our goal were. Marilyn Coulter: [18:02] So, when you were an hourly worker, what made a good supervisor for you? Eldridge Cook: A good supervisor to me was takin’ care of his employees. Catering ta their needs, not no one else need but theirs, you know, so. Marilyn Coulter: [18:22] And being the factor that you had been on the line, did ya feel that that made you a better supervisor? Eldridge Cook: I know it did. Because like I said earlier, you know, I had been there and done that, so I knew – I can understand what they was goin’ through and I could kinda deal with it, better than not knowin’ what they go through. Marilyn Coulter: [18:42] S-, so, being supervisor, did you work dayshift, did you work nightshift, how did that go? Eldridge Cook: Well, it – when I went on, we was doin’ 12 weeks night, 12 weeks days, so I went from dayshift to nightshift. Basically went to nightshift every 12 weeks. Marilyn Coulter: [18:57] And how did it work for you? Eldridge Cook: It… Marilyn Coulter: [18:59] And your family? Eldridge Cook: …it, it worked good for me because when I worked in days I could stay home. I mean when I was workin’, yeah, days, I’d be at home wit my little kids at night, and so on the week that I went to, uh, night, we had to get a babysitter to be at home with the kids. Marilyn Coulter: [19:18] So, you said because the laws had changed… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: …they had ta put more… Eldridge Cook: Blacks. Marilyn Coulter: …blacks on… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: …um, how many supervisors do you, do your remember who all got put on? Eldridge Cook: Uh, yes. I went on. [Robert Thorne 19:34] went on. [Walt Benefield 19:36] was put on. [Sandra Coleman 19:38] was put on. [Lynn Hill 19:40] was put on. [Inaudible 19:43] and I don’t know how many up in the paint shop, you know. Marilyn Coulter: [19:48] And now, um, what about women? Eldridge Cook: Yeah, we had some women. We had Sandy Coleman and Lynn Hill was women. Yeah. [door shutting] They were the only two black women, I think, we ever had in trim. Marilyn Coulter: [20.07] Now… Eldridge Cook: Lynn Hill. Sandy Coleman. Marilyn Coulter: …now they came in later years, right? Eldridge Cook: Real later. Yeah, they came in the late 80s or the mid-80s. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Eldridge Cook: Yep. Marilyn Coulter: [20:16] So, um, as the supervisor and as a lineworker, can you tell me some – now you, you’re retired now? Eldridge Cook: Yes. [laughter] Yes. Yes. Marilyn Coulter: And… Eldridge Cook: Definitely retired. [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: [20:32] How many years did you retire anyway? Eldridge Cook: Uh, 37 and a half. Marilyn Coulter: [20:35] Thirty seven and a half? Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: [20:37] So in 37 and a half years, can you walk us through what life was like for a supervisor in there? What are some of the big changes that you had in there… Eldridge Cook: Uh, life was… Marilyn Coulter: …that you noticed? Eldridge Cook: Yeah, in 37 years there and 31 as a supervisor, life had really changed. It went from a little authority to, uh, a much more authorities in the later years, but it was still touch and go. You know, ya still you knew you had so much ya could do and so much ya didn’t dare do. You know, the main objective was just to get a good quality [outkeep 21:16] line, uh… Marilyn Coulter: [21:18] Can you share what you wouldn’t dare do? Eldridge Cook: Yeah, number 1, you didn’t dare talk back to your supervisor. That was number 1. Rather you were right or wrong, you didn’t dare ta cross him. No. Marilyn Coulter: Earl. Earl Nicholson: Oh, uh. Uh, did, um, Earl Nicholson. [21:40] Um, at what point in your career – I mean, uh, that you told me that, uh, that, uh, the , uh, the white employees wouldn’t accept checks from you… Eldridge Cook: Right. Earl Nicholson: …you had to mail them. At what point did that change? Eldridge Cook: Well, it never… Earl Nicholson: [21:54] What year? Eldridge Cook: Uh, that was back in the late 80s I believes. No, the late 70s. They refused to take a check from me, and it didn’t bother me. I just took it back down to payroll. [Inaudible 22:09]. Earl Nicholson: [22:09] Yeah, but, but when, when did they, when did they start taking, accepting them? Eldridge Cook: Uh. Earl Nicholson: [22:12] When did, when did, when did that come to an end? Eldridge Cook: In the early 80s. They was okay with it, I guess, but, you know, ya, ya still could tell that they didn’t want ta be bothered with ya, but you had to go on because I had a job to do ‘cause regardless of their feelin’, I knew I had a job to do, and I did it to the best of my ability. I also knew I had a family, a wife, and 3 kid to support, so I knew where my meal ticket was [door screeching], so I had ta do the best to my ability ta make sure I didn’t lose my job. Marilyn Coulter: Cookie, [throat clearing] Marilyn Coulter. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: [22:49] What were some of the things that you were able to help change in the plant? Eldridge Cook: Well, one thing is being a black supervisor, I could relate ta a lotta people problems, and I tried to help them anyway I could, you know. You have to be sensitive to their needs because l- life were more than just Fisher Body. You have a personal life also, so you have to be sensitive and cater to some of their needs, and I know people that worked for me on the nightshift that had families and kids and activities, and they couldn’t go to see some of their kid’s activities, and I used to get around that by hey, go see your daughter basketball game or your son basketball game, come right in after the game is over. Don’t go to MacDonald. Don’t go to Burger King. When the game is over, get yourself in here and work and, uh, that worked for me, and the employee that I did that for, they respected that and they – when the game was over, they’d hustle right in ta work, and I appreciated that too. Yeah, uh. Earl Nicholson: Um, I’d like to talk a little bit about health and safety. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Earl Nicholson: [24:11] Uh, when you first in, first hired in, uh, how safe was Fisher Body, and in 1970, how safe was Fisher Body, and in 1980, how safe was Fisher Body? Eldridge Cook: Well, from the safety standpoint of view back in the 70s, I know we had to wear steel-toe shoes, and we got away from that in the later part of the 80s. You didn’t have to – steel-toe shoe wasn’t the requirement. You also had to wear safety glasses, but we still had to wear safety glasses, but the number 1 issue, the steel-toe shoes had gone out. But other than that, everything was still safe. [screeching] Earl Nicholson: [24:50] How many people had been hurt? Say like in 1970 as opposed to 1980? Eldridge Cook: Hm. I can’t give ya that number ‘cause I really don’t know. Earl Nicholson: [24:59] Do – did you ever work ‘round anybody that had been seriously hurt? Eldridge Cook: No. Uh-uh. [screeching] No. Marilyn Coulter: [25:05] Cookie… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: …you were there in the 60s… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: …you’re there in the 70s – Marilyn Coulter. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: you were there in the 70s, you were there in the 80s… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: you’re there in the 90s… Eldridge Cook: Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: …can you tell me how the plant population changed, um, in terms of your employees? Eldridge Cook: Yes, uh, in the 80s, we start gettin’ more younger people in and they had their own mindset, you know, no one – they – I shouldn’t say all of’m, but most of’m was lazy, just lookin’ for a handout and didn’t wanna really work to earn what was bein’ offered to’m. Back in the 60s and the 70, people really appreciated their job, and they gave you a hundred percent, and that’s the only different that I could see between the generation gap. The 60s and the 70 people really appreciated their job and wanted to work. Where those in the 80s and the 90s was not as ambitious as they were back in the 60s and 70s. Marilyn Coulter: [26:16] Um, what would you attribute that to? Eldridge Cook: Uh, they in it all with the money they had, and the money they had given them everything, and not being out on their own, earnin’ their own way. That’s what I contribute it to. Cheryl McQuaid: Cheryl McQuaid. [26:32] Did you as a supervisor – were you able to weed out some of these lazy people or was that somethin’ that you had no , no control over? Eldridge Cook: No control over it whatsoever. Yeah, that was [papers shuffling] did through the unemployment office. [Inaudible 26:49]. Marilyn Coulter: [26:50] S-, so, do you feel that, um, when General Motors issued by Lansing gave the hiring practices over to the employment office versus the inhouse, um, when… Eldridge Cook: Referral. Marilyn Cook: …referral where they went – and they actually came and stood in the plant and our, um, employment office hired’m in? Eldridge Cook: Well, I think, uh, the referral system was much better because if I had employee and he had a sister or brother that wanted to get in, it, you know, and the employee that came to me was a good worker, so yes, I recommended that, uh, they would hire sister or brother, which I had about, hm, 6 people that I recommended down in the employment office. They hired’m just because their sister or their brother was, uh, employee of mine, and they was good worker and they, and they hired their brother or sister, [paper ripping] and they turned out to be good workers. I think that’s when we really loss control of the plant when we stopped doin’ that, you know. Marilyn Coulter: [27:58] So, do you think some of that was because, just because they didn’t have it grandfathered down to them like the importance of the UAW, the importance of General Motors and what it had to offer? Eldridge Cook: Well, the UAW was still important to’m, but like I say if you workin’ well, been employee for 4 years, and if he was a – he or she was a good employee, if they had a sister or brother that wanted to come work for GM based on their work relationship, you would, you know, say hey, give’m a shot. His sister, his brother was a very good employee, and I think that’s where we lost a lotta good employees, when they went away from that. Marilyn Coulter: Earl. Earl Nicholson: Uh, Earl Nicholson. [28:43] Uh, you ever fire anybody? [laughter] Eldridge Cook: No, they fire themself. [laughter]. [laughter] Earl Nicholson: [28:51] Could you, could you, could ya elaborate on that a little bit? Eldridge Cook: [laughter] Well, I think durin’ my time, I, uh, let 2 people go, and it was for violation that they had been warned and warned and warned on, and they never corrected it, and so we had to let’m go. Earl Nicholson: [29:09] So, then you felt that they deserved that then? Eldridge Cook: Well, I shouldn’t say they deserve it, because every man or woman needed a good job, but they just wouldn’t step up to their responsibility to what they needed to correct, and they did not. So, therefore, we had ta, uh, let’m go. Marilyn Coulter: [29:27] Um, Cookie – Marilyn Coulter. What would you say just from being on the [inaudible 29:32] what w-, what was the thing that – what were some of the things that people primarily got fired for? And… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Well, usually it was drinkin’. That was number one. Drinkin’. Was drugs, but, uh, number one was a to me was main reason that ya had to let somebody go ‘cause they couldn’t, couldn’t do their job. [chair squeaking] Marilyn Coulter: But now, just so people understand about work was – [screeching] it’s not easy to just totally dismiss somebody. There’s a lotta steps that you had ta go through. [30:07] Could ya tell us a little about the steps that you had ta go through as a supervisor before you did dismiss or [clanking] discipline someone? Eldridge Cook: Well, you had ta go through the proper procedure. You had ta go through labor relation and have the interview and they determine what their gonna do, uh, and you put them on probation and give’m a chance. They come back. They on probation for x amount of time. If they didn’t break their probation durin’ that period, they were safe again for, you know, and some of’m would just go back and break their probation… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Eldridge Cook: …so just what I [inaudible 30:41]. Marilyn Coulter: [30:42] Now, uh, some things that, depending on what it was… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: …sometimes ya got what was called a v-,v-, a verbal warning? Eldridge Cook: Yes. Marilyn Coulter: And then a written reprimand? Eldridge Cook: Right. Marilyn Coulter: And then they got three days off. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: Then it was… Eldridge Cook: A week. Marilyn Coulter: …a week and then… Eldridge Cook: Two weeks. Marilyn Coulter: And then? Eldridge Cook: Four weeks. Marilyn Coulter: Four weeks and then? Eldridge Cook: That’s all [laughter] [they get 31:03]. Marilyn Coulter: [31:04] So they had a… Eldridge Cook: Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: … lot of opportunities… Eldridge Cook: Yeah. Right. [Inaudible 31:06]. Marilyn Coulter: … that the UAW GM gave them before they actually did see the street? Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: [31:11] And then what did you think about? I know that ya said some people had substance problems, um, I know we also had an EA… Eldridge Cook: P. Marilyn Coulter: …P program… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: …that, uh, Employee Assistance Program. [31:23] How did ya feel about that program as a supervisor? Eldridge Cook: I thought it was a wonderful program and it – I felt like most people shoulda took advantage of it that didn’t. It was right there for’m ta use and they didn’t. Marilyn Coulter: [Earl 31:38] Earl Nicholson. Earl Nicholson: Earl Nicholson. [31:42] Um, whatta ya think about the team concept? Eldridge Cook: I loved it. I loved it. To me, it was just too late comin’. Marilyn Coulter: [31:48] Can ya please explain the team concept? Eldridge Cook: Yeah, uh, you had ta employee that was – you picked out. Well, I shouldn’t say you picked out but that was chosen to have six or seven employees that he had ta cater to all their needs and I re- – it took a lotta stress off the supervisor because he couldn’t cater to 30,000, 40 employees, but if ya had a team leader, he knew his responsibility was this group. Not only that group, but if he saw another group in trouble, he had the, uh, capability of goin’ up assistin’ another group. Marilyn Coulter: [32:24] And how large were those groups? Eldridge Cook: Uh, the whole group was – I had, uh, some like 30 people and I had 4, I think, TC leaders or team leader that took care of 7 or 8 people in his own group. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. [Inaudible 32:38]. And, um, like I said, once ya – you were there for many, many years… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: …and in your 37 years… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: …there were many programs that were developed… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: …that involved employees. [32:52] Can you tell us about some of those programs? One of’m was Quality Work Life and Employee Participation Groups. How did ya feel about those things as a supervisor? Eldridge Cook: I thought they was wonderful. Any time ya can give people more knowledge or help’m understand their job better, I think it’s a wonderful thing. We were just too late doin’ it, you know, I think [inaudible 33:11]. Marilyn Coulter: [33:12] Do you feel that there was some supervisors who… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: …um, fought those programs? Eldridge Cook: Mm, I, I can’t answer that because I know I loved’m, and I participated in all of’m. Yep. Marilyn Coulter: Cheryl. Cheryl McQuaid: Cheryl McQuaid. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Cheryl McQuaid: [33:31] Um, at one time Fisher Body had a salary parking lot… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Cheryl McQuaid: …and a salary dining area… Eldridge Cook: Right. Cheryl McQuaid: …were you – did ya go to these places? What did ya do for lunch? Eldridge Cook: I went to it at the time. They had salary parkin’. I parked in the salary parking lot and the salary dining room. I ate in the salary dining room, but to me, it was, uh, a thing sayin’ that I’m better than you. I park here and I eat there. Why can’t we all eat in the same place and park in the same place? That was my thing, you know, I, I never felt like I should be in a certain place and you be in a certain place. We both workin’ at the same place and we both workin’ to accomplish the same goal. Give, give General Motors a good quality job and, and your paycheck and that was it. Cheryl McQuaid: [34:22] So, it didn’t bother you at all…. Eldridge Cook: It didn’t bother me… Cheryl McQuaid: …when they took those things away? Eldridge Cook: No, not one bit. Cheryl McQuaid: [34:26] Was there, eh – did ya hear much from other supervisors that didn’t care for it? Eldridge Cook: Some mumble and grumble, but like I said, it didn’t concern me as long – my main objective, like I said, was, uh, supportin’ that wife and family. Yeah. I had a good job, so I [laughter] did everything I could ta keep it. Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: Cook-, Cookie. Marilyn Coulter. [34:51] I know you said that some of the employees had a problem with you and didn’t want ta accept the checks and things like you – how did ya fellow supervisors take you in [inaudible 35:01]. Eldridge Cook: Uh, well at that time, it wasn’t that many black supervisors at all [door creaking] you know, and really that didn’t, didn’t bother me in a sense, yes, but, uh, that as, as a whole, it didn’t bother me. Marilyn Coulter: [35:15] But how was your relationship with the other supervisors? The white supervisors? Eldridge Cook: It was good. It was good. I, I work with them along with anybody, you know, ya put God first, employees second, and, uh, to me I was always last, and that’s what carried me all the way through life. Yeah. [Door opening]. Earl Nicholson: Uh, Earl Nicholson. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Earl Nicholson: [35:38] How was your relationship with upper management? Eldridge Cook: It was good. Yeah, they was – they kinda loved Cookie. Everybody kinda looked out for Cookie and everybody loved Cookie, and so, I respected ‘em because who they were. I respect them as their position, who they were. As long as ya do that, you won’t have no problem with nobody. All they deserve and respect and ya give’m that respect, so ya don’t have no problem with. Earl Nicholson: [36:05] Ya gonna tell me who your favorite plant manager is? Eldridge Cook: [laughter] Uh, oh, oh, uh, I did – well, my favorite plant manager… Earl Nicholson: No, no wait, wait be-, before we go to that… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Earl Nicholson: Uh, you were workin’ at Fisher Body when [Amy Firmer 36:17] came there… Eldridge Cook: Yes. Earl Nicholson: …and that was the first female plant manager. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Earl Nicholson: [36:23] Was – did that, that have any effect on you at all? Eldridge Cook: None, none whatsoever. I treated her [clicking] just as a plant manager and not as a gentleman. To me, she was plant manager and, and I know ya have to be re-, regardless who it is, ya gotta respect the position first, male or female. Respect the position and everything fall in place. Earl Nicholson: [36:41] And did she live up to that reputation of plant manager? Eldridge Cook: To me she did. I had no problem with her. None whatsoever. Earl Nicholson: Okay, now we go back to my other question. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Earl Nicholson: [36:49] Who was your favorite plant manager? Eldridge Cook: [Jim Zonkas 36:52]. Earl Nicholson: Jim Zonkas. Eldridge Cook: Jim Zonkas. Earl Nicholson: He’s also mine too. Eldridge Cook: Jim Zonkas to me was, uh, a people person, and he cared about his employees. To me, he cared about his employees. Yeah. Cheryl McQuaid: Cheryl McQuaid. [37:07] Did you ever have any, um, super-, management or hourly people that played a big, significant role in your life to help ya through your day? I mean some of those days when the employee is not gonna take a check from you. That had ta have been hard. It doesn’t matter who it is. I mean that had ta have been hard. Eldridge Cook: Yeah, uh… [coughing] Cheryl McQuaid: [37:31] Was there anybody that just, you know, hey, keep your chin up Cookie? Eldridge Cook: Yeah. Cheryl McQuaid: Just anybody that… Eldridge Cook: Well, the super of the, uh, my supervisor at that time was [Floyd Jackson 37:40]. I don’t know whether ya all remember Floyd Jackson or not, but he alway would come tell me, he said, Cookie, keep your chin up, and he treated me just like his own, and I respected Floyd for that to the day he died and always will because he’d always would come and see how I was doing. [George Canell 38:00] was another supervisor that always wantin’ ta know how Cookie was doin’, you know. So, I mean that go a long way with me. Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: Cookie. Gary Judy: Gary Judy. Eldridge Cook: Yeah. Gary Judy: Cookie, now you were a supervisor in several areas. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Gary Judy: Trim, body shop, uh… Eldridge Cook: No, never been in body shop. Just trim. Gary Judy: [38:26] Wasn’t you, wasn’t you on the body shop? I thought you were in the body shop. Eldridge Cook: I was timekeeper up there. Gary Judy: All, okay. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Gary Judy: [38:33] Um, so just, just the trim area [clanking] that was the only place you were a supervisor? Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Yeah. Gary Judy: Okay. I was thinkin’ you were in the body shop, and I was gonna ask you which area you had felt was the easiest to… Eldridge Cook: Trim. Gary Judy: …to, uh… Eldridge Cook: Trim. Gary Judy: …to uh manage… Eldridge Cook; Yeah. Gary Judy: …but I guess that doesn’t apply. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: But actually it does apply [chair squeaking] because trim has a lotta different areas in it. We do a lotta different things. [38:54] Can you tell us which one of those departments was your favorite area to supervise? Eldridge Cook: Well, I had to, uh, the year we started doin’ vinyl tops, I really enjoyed the vinyl top, puttin’ on vinyl tops, and do a family area. [talking in background] Eldridge Cook: Those was my two favorite areas. Yeah. Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: [39:14] And, what made it so? What made… Eldridge Cook: Uh… Marilyn Coulter: …them your favorite area? Eldridge Cook: …I had some good employees. I, I loved the employees, and they were very pleasant to work with and [door shutting] I think them just, just the, the employees. So, made my job much easier. Marilyn Coulter: Uh… [squeaking] Marilyn Coulter: [39:31] So, um, what are some of the things that made your [footsteps] uh, t-, what made a bad area for you? Eldridge Cook: What made a bad area? Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Eldridge Cook: Well, the nightshift was one time in the bad area because the younger like I said in after ’84, ya started gettin’ all the younger employees in. They didn’t really want ta work, they just wanted to come in and get a paycheck, and they didn’t live up to their responsibility as the older people did, my age group and what have ya, Somewhat more difficult with the younger generation than it [papers shuffling] was with the older generation. Marilyn Coulter: [40:17] Um, can you tell me what types of things, um, you did as a supervisor to help, um, pull the area together? Were there dinners? Were there, you know, special occasions? Eldridge Cook: Well… Marilyn Coulter: What type of things did you guys do for that? Eldridge Cook: …well my main thing was the better you treat somebody, the easier your job gonna be, and I made it my point of business everyday ta go up ta each employee and chat with’m and see how you doin’, how ya day goin’, or anything that I can help ya with and let them know that if they did have a problem or somethin’ that they wanted ta talk about, I was there ta listen to me. Not sayin’ I’d resolve all their problem, but at least I went around everyday ta let’m know that I was there if they needed some help. Earl Nicholson: Earl Nicholson. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Earl Nicholson: [41:13] Do you know for you – do you know the phrase goin’ postal? Eldridge Cook: No. Earl Nicholson: Where that the post office employee comes in with a gun and goes crazy and starts shootin’ people. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Earl Nicholson: [41:24] Have you, have you ever known of anybody ta ever come bring a weapon into work? Eldridge Cook: Yes, I do. Yeah. Earl Nicholson: And what was the end result to that? Eldridge Cook: Well, eventually, he confessed to me that he didn’t like me, and, uh, he brought a gun in on Saturday to kill me, and he said when he got up ta me, he couldn’t pull the gun outta his hand. Somethin’ just held his hand… Marilyn Coulter: [inaudible 41:50] Mm-hm. Eldridge Cook: …and so after he told me that, I went to the superintendent and told him, and he said do ya wanna have him [footsteps] [door opening] fired. I said no, I don’t wanna have him fired ‘cause evidently [screeching] somebody was lookin’ out for me that he couldn’t carry out the act that he wanted to, and so we didn’t discharge him, and after that, he’s alway come up to good [inaudible 42:11]. I thank you for savin’ my job. I said well, hey, you know, I didn’t save your job, the good Lord saved your job because the good Lord kept you from doin’ the act on me, so, therefore, I just reversed it back to you. Earl Nicholson: [42:25] So, do you believe that, that, that was a, that mighta been racially motivated? Eldridge Cook: Uh, I don’t know. I can’t say for sure whether it was racial. Earl Nicholson; [42:32] He just, he just didn’t like you? Eldridge Cook: Right. He just didn’t like me. Earl Nicholson: [42:36] And, uh, after that, af-, after all that, was he a changed man? Eldridge Cook: Yes, he was. Yes, he was. Marilyn Coulter: [42:42] Uh, Cookie, was that in the early part, mid, or the latter part of … Eldridge Cook: That was… Marilyn Coulter: …bein’ supervisor? Eldridge Cook: …that was in the la-, the early 90s. That was right before I retired. Yeah. It was in the 90s. He did. Said he brought a gun into kill me one Saturday night. He just couldn’t pull it out his pocket. [Inaudible 43:03]. Earl Nicholson: Wow. Marilyn Coulter: [Inaudible 43:05] Earl Nicholson: That’s amazing. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Yeah. Earl Nicholson: [43:08] So are you aware of any other events where people have brought weapons in? Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. No. Their the only one that I know about that the guy came up and told me about it, so [inaudible 43:19] I was thankful that the good Lord kept his hand around me. Yeah. [screeching] Marilyn Coulter: Cookie, Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: [43:27] Do you have, um, any other relatives that work inside the facility? Eldridge Cook: Yes, I have one daughter worked there at General Motors. Marilyn Coulter: [43:37] And I take it this is one of the persons you referred to re-, get the job? Eldridge Cook: Uh, yes, I referred my daughter ta the top. Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: [43:46] Can you, um, tell me what was one of your – two things. Number 1, what was one of your best times or best memories in the plant and what was one of your worst? I’m assuming that one mighta been [inaudible 44:00]. Eldridge Cook: Well, let’s see. Uh, I had a lotta good times, and like I said the only bad time was when I, I just told you about. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Eldridge Cook: But I had a lotta super good times in the plant, so the good outnumbered the bad, so. Marilyn Coulter: [44:17] Can, can you tell me, um, what did they do for holidays? Eldridge Cook: In the plant? Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Eldridge Cook: We only had dinners. We ate out there. We fed’m and worked’m hard, and we got out a good quality. [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: [44:35] So… Eldridge Cook: [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: …as a supervisor, what did… Eldridge Cook: Um… Marilyn Coulter: …you do? Did ya do it personally? Did ya cook or what did ya do? Eldridge Cook: Hm. No, we just kinda had potlucks. Everybody would bring in a dish ta pass. We ate good every day. Bring donuts in, and I made coffee in my office every day and people come by wanted a cup of coffee. You get a cup of coffee and donut or whatever. Marilyn Coulter: [44:57] Now that’s something that, um, changed over the years because wi-, with the plant policy, yes? Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: [45:05] And they – was there use – there used to be a lot of cooking right on the line. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: Is that right? Eldridge Cook: Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: [Okay 45:11]. Eldridge Cook: Yeah. We used to cook. We used, we used to c-, cook in the oven. Bring a roast in, put in the paint ovens, and [laughter] cook it. [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: [45:23] And it was, and ya could… Eldridge Cook: [laughter] Ah Lord, yeah. Marilyn Coulter: …in the paint ovens? Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Yes, set’m in the paint oven and ‘bout the time, the lunchtime, 5 hours, that roast was done. Mm-hm. Yeah. [laughter] [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: [laughter] [45:39] So, um, was there anybody in the plant that you, uh, developed a friendship that extended outside of the plant? Eldridge Cook: Hm. Not really. Not really. [Inaudible 45:52] Marilyn Coulter: [45:55] Um, did you, um [screeching] [papers shuffling] – I know that you say that, um, I hear ya refer to, um, your belief… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: …a lot. Eldridge Cook: Yes. Marilyn Coulter: [46:06] Were there, um, bible study groups or anything like that ya participated in? Eldridge Cook: It was bible study group in the plant, but I used to sit in my office and read mine, but I never did participate in the groups there in the plant, but that’s the only thing that kept me goin’ was my faith and my belief and my upbringin’. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Eldridge Cook: Those, those are things I never will get away from. Marilyn Coulter: Now they always call Lansing Fisher Body, the capital of quality even during the turbulent times of the late 80s and the 90s when the culture started ta change. [46:52] What do you attribute that to? Eldridge Cook: Uh, like I said earlier, to the older employees that appreciated their jobs and knew they had a good job [clanking] and they did it the best of their ability to make sure they gave the best quality. Marilyn Coulter: And – but the quality awards, even though some of the younger ones, not all, but some of them may not have appreciated the job to the fullest… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: …we always, even though it was an older facility that, um, built a plant, built a job in two different facilities, still noted to be the capital of quality. Eldridge Cook: Yeah. Quality. Marilyn Coulter: [47:31] So, the workforce as a whole still? Eldridge Cook: Well, even had good quality, then I think Fisher of Lansing – I almost said Fisher Body. I think Lansing alway be known as General Motors number 1 qualities ‘cause any week, we had the people that really build some good quality here in Lansing, and I was proud to be a part of it. Marilyn Coulter: [47:56] What did ya think or did it affect you? We went from Fisher Body to BOC ta Lansing Car Assembly. What did ya think ‘bout all the name changes? How did that affect you at all? Eldridge Cook: Well, it didn’t because like a say our main objective was to build a number 1 quality. That was our paycheck. That was our livelihood. [beeping] And that’s what we had to focus on, but the name change didn’t affect us at all. Sure you hate to lose Fisher Body, Body by Fisher. We hated ta, ta lose that, that symbol said Body by Fisher, but the quality stayed the same. We didn’t slip in the quality. Marilyn Coulter: [48:40] When you came to Lansing Fisher Body and you said we have that, um, did you live in close proximity to the [coughing] plant at all? [coughing] Eldridge Cook: Yeah. I lived over on Magnolia Street over on the eastside about 8 miles away. Didn’t know my way around. Had to walk home every night ‘cause I didn’t have no ride but, uh, didn’t know how ta catch the bus. At that time of night, there wasn’t no bus runnin’ anyway, but after 10 hours, I came through that front door and headed down Verlinda, Michigan, down to Kalamazoo and all the way cross town to the eastside right before you get to 496 bypass. I did that every night until, uh, pay. [laughter] I sure did. Catch the bus to work in the daytime but walk home every night. Marilyn Coulter: Oh. Eldridge Cook: Thought nothin’ of it. Marilyn Coulter: [49:35] But what did the community that you lived in think of Fisher Body? Eldridge Cook: They thought Fisher Body the best thing that ever happened to Lansing, and they still do. Everybody grump and moan about Fisher Body closin’, you know, and we gonna be devastated, but, uh, we still gonna go out and [deal 49:55] with the plant and build the same good quality we did here in Lansing. I believe that. Earl Nicholson: Earl Nicholson. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Earl Nicholson: [50:02] When did you buy your first car? Eldridge Cook: I bought my first car in 1976. Yeah, and I hired in in ’65. Earl Nicholson: [50:13] What was the fir-, what was the first car that ya bought? Eldridge Cook: Uh, a 1976 Cutlass Oldsmobile. Earl Nicholson: [50:19] And that was a product that you were makin’? Eldridge Cook: A product that we were makin’. Mm-hm. Yeah. It sure was. Earl Nicholson: [50:26] So I – you know that ya could – motor coach symbol… Eldridge Cook: Yes. Earl Nicholson: …is a symbol that you’d been, you’d been… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Earl Nicholson: …raised with all your life and it’s a tradition? Eldridge Cook: Yeah. Earl Nicholson: [50:32] Would you like ta see that symbol come back? Eldridge Cook: I would. I would. I’d like ta see that symbol Body by Fish-. I hated to see that leave. Yeah. I hated ta see that symbol leave. Body by Fisher. Marilyn Coulter: I have to ask [inaudible 50:48]. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: [50:51] You walked to work for all those years? Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. From work. Marilyn Coulter: You… Eldridge Cook: I caught the bus in the daytime but at night, yeah. Marilyn Coulter: And so for 5 years, did you ride [inaudible 51:01]. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: and you walk? Eldridge Cook: Walk. Yeah. Every night. Marilyn Coulter: An [inaudible 51:08], I think that’s why he expected so much [laughter] of his employees. [laughter] [laughter] Eldridge Cook: Yeah. [laughter] Cheryl McQuaid: Cheryl McQuaid. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Cheryl McQuaid: [51:16] Cookie, there were a lotta things that supervisors allowed employees to get away with… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Cheryl McQuaid: Um, but wasn’t always what salary wanted the employees to do, and what I’m thinkin’ about is check pools, playin’ cards, gamblin’, uh, football pools… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Cheryl McQuaid: [51:33] How did ya – did ya see any of that going on and how did you, did you – were you the type that just turned your head and walked away? Eldridge Cook: Yeah. You, you saw it every, every football season. You saw it to football, pool goin’, you saw the check pool every payday, and sometimes ya just have ta look the other way. You know what I mean? [sniffling] Eldridge Cook: You see and ya don’t see. Ya hear and ya don’t hear, and ya just look the other way and hope things go smooth. Yeah. Yeah. Earl Nicholson: Earl Nicholson. [52:11] Cookie… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Earl Nicholson: …um, you retired… Eldridge Cook: Yes. Earl Nicholson: …and ya stayed in Lansing, Michigan… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Earl Nicholson: …no, no desire ta return to… Marilyn Coulter: Mississippi. Earl Nicholson: …Mississippi? Eldridge Cook: Not yet. [laughter] No. No. My kids is here. My dad died last year in January. My mom passed in 1998, and so I don’t have any ties in Mississippi now, just my cousins still, but my kids is here, and I like it here. I’m used to the weather. That was the biggest thing I had to get used to, the weather. Where I came from, a cold day was 55 degrees. [laughter] That was cold. Earl Nicholson: Well, that’s, that’s another good question. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Earl Nicholson: [52:55] When was the first time that you’d ever seen snow? Eldridge Cook: When I came here, I came up here in 1958 to visit my brother and we got – they got I should say maybe a foot of snow, of snow, and I didn’t know, I didn’t know. Man, what is that stuff out there? What is it? And he said that’s snow. What is snow, you know. But, uh, I’ve seen plenty though since I’ve been here. Earl Nicholson: Mm-hm. Eldridge Cook: [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: So… [laughter] Eldridge Cook: [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: [53:22] Cookie, um, in being a supervisor, um, there had ta been, um, – what are some of the other programs that you felt was good for the employees, [paper ripping] and how did it, how did it help to better the, uh, the management-employer relations? Eldridge Cook: Uh, we had, we had a lotta good program to help better management, uh, supervisor and employee relationship, but it was so many, I – it’d been so long there, and I can’t name’m all, but we had several good emp-, good program that I thought was very useful and very helpful. Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: [54:09] So, um, [humming] when you’re workin’ here in the plant – oh, sorry Gary Judy. Gary Judy: [54:16] Um, Cook, did you see anything that management could have did differently or better or any programs that shoulda stook with, stuck with that woulda made things even better as far as quality and, uh, improvement of the process? Eldridge Cook: Well, I think some of the program that we started, initiated’m, and run’m for 2 or 3 weeks or more, and then you don’t hear no more about it. Gary Judy: The flavor of the month program… Eldridge Cook: Yeah. Yeah. Gary Judy: …is what they would call’m. Eldridge Cook: Right. Yeah. Gary Judy: [54:46] Was there anything… Eldridge Cook: Yes. Gary Judy: …that you felt that they, that they shoulda stuck with that they didn’t? Eldridge Cook: Uh, I can’t recall particularly right now, but like I said, and once another program we – before we got the employee participating in the help settin’ up the, the jobs, help settin’ the operation. That helped a whole lot ‘cause they had input, you know, in help settin’ it up because there’s a team leader when we implemented that program. The team leader had a lot ta say about what goes where and w-, will this work or will that not work, and that helped us a whole lot down in [inaudible 55:26] we were settin’ up the new jobs. And that was a good program, I thought. Marilyn Coulter: Cookie… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: …um, workin’ the plant, one of the things that used to help get a lot of employees through the night was their radios. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: [55:46] Can you tell us how ya felt about radios? Eldridge Cook: They was fine along as they wasn’t too loud because [laughter] uh, I learned in, in early, in my early stage of bein’ on supervision, a happy employee is a good employee. If he want ta play his radio like that, keep it down to a minimum. As long as he happy, I’m happy, you know. Marilyn Coulter: [56:11] And, um, at times we had things that were called the radio wars. How did ya deal with those? Eldridge Cook: Well, ya go tell the employee ta turn it down. You had ta go 3 times and tell’m ta turn it down. The next time, you’d confiscate it, uh, have’m turn it off, which… [paper shuffling] [coughing] Marilyn Coulter: [56:30] Um, being a seasoned supervisor… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: …and it’s not for the inside Fisher Body, but bein’ a seasoned supervisor, one of the things that their gonna say that we can’t do [screeching] is have no radios. How do ya think it’s gonna affect the employees? Eldridge Cook: Gonna affect them bad. His attitude and work ethics. Yep. Like I keep sayin’ and I learnt this early on, a good, a happy employee is a good employee. Keep’m happy you can get anything outta the world from’m, and they do ya a good job if their happy, but if they mouthin’ off, they’re not happy, they could care less about you and the operation, so that po- – give’m some of their little needs and wants. Marilyn Coulter: Okay. Talkin’ about needs and wants. One of the things that changed the needs and wants, it wasn’t just something that, um, Fisher Body did, it was somethin’ the city of Lansing did… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: …and that was a band on smoking. [57:30] How did it affect your employees? Eldridge Cook: Uh, when I was – before I retired, they had not put that in force. Marilyn Coulter: Ah, Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. But me with my condition, and I mean my heart condition, it’s, it’s a good thing for me, but as far as I can’t say what it does to someone else because I never smoked see, so I can’t say how it would affect you if you had to stop smokin’. Marilyn Coulter: Okay. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Earl Nicholson: Uh, Earl Nicholson. Uh, sick leave and worker’s comp. [58:07] How do ya feel? How did ya feel about sick leave and how did ya feel about worker’s comp? Eldridge Cook: [laughter] Earl Nicholson: How did ya feel about protected employees? Eldridge Cook: [laughter] Sick leave. [laughter] I knew it was negotiated in the contract, so ya have ta live with it. Ya have ta grin and bear it, and I’ll leave it at that. [laughter] Yeah. Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: [58:27] What about… Eldridge Cook: Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: …injured workers? Eldridge Cook: Hm. Marilyn Coulter: Those of us who have been injured? Eldridge Cook: Yeah, well, again, it was negotiated in the contract, and you couldn’t go against the contract, so again, ya had to grin and bear it. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Eldridge Cook: Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: Um, and I say that because some of the things were engineering problems. [screeching] Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: [58:49] How did you try ta help your employees when they had those engineering problems? What types of things did ya have to do? Eldridge Cook: Well… Marilyn Coulter: Try ta make it better for your employees. Eldridge Cook: One thing… Marilyn Coulter: To keep that happy employee. Eldridge Cook: …yeah. One thing I tried to do would go ta the, to management and let them know ya either you can’t do it that way or ya gotta have an assist to help’m instead of keep poundin’ and poundin’ the employee ta keep doin’ it, keep doin’ it. Ya see it injurin’ them, so, therefore, ya need a tool to assist them ta do it. Marilyn Coulter: [59:21] Now, one of the things when the – many of the programs that they had initiated was P-D-T, which was Product Team Representative. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: Representatives for the development. And having an hourly employee get it active and actual engineering of a car, how did you feel that affected? Eldridge Cook: It – I think it was a good program b-, because like again, like I said… [papers shuffling] Eldridge Cook: …you get your hourly employees involved in the product. They the one that gotta put the parts together. They the one that gotta do the assembly. To get them involved. See what all the difficulty it is doin’ it and we go from there. Earl Nicholson: Um, I think that the, the, abbreviation is V-M-E. [60:15] Could you – do you know what that is? Eldridge Cook: Uh-uh. [Inaudible 60:18] Earl Nicholson: It’s uh, V, uh, it was, it was somethin’ that, uh, it was, it was, uh, on the [inaudible 60:22] on the, on the, on the vehicle that the manufacturing… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Earl Nicholson: …and a lotta supervisors lived by this, that little chart. Lotta senior supervisors. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. [door squeaking] Earl Nicholson: [60:34] And I was wondering if you were aware of that? Because I re-, I recall several senior supervisors mentioning that, uh, they, that they didn’t view these… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Earl Nicholson: …before. Eldridge Cook: Well… Earl Nicholson: So, no? Eldridge Cook: I don’t remember ever doin’ any of those. Earl Nicholson: Okay. Eldridge Cook: No. [Inaudible 60:52] Marilyn Coulter: Um, that’s about it. Um, let me see. [61:00] Cookie… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: …is there anything that you’d like ta share with us that we have not touched on? Eldridge Cook: No, I think ya all touched on just about everything. [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: Okay. Eldridge Cook: [laughter] Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: [61:11] Well, inside the plant… Eldridge Cook: [laughter] Hm. Marilyn Coulter: …what are some of the things that, um, you’ve done in the community? Eldridge Cook: Well, like I said, I’m active in my church, in the community, and right now I go up to the West Southside Community Center and sit and talk with some of the people and next summer, I, I told’m that I would, I got some thing that I will do for them, next summer as far as helpin’ the West Southside Community Center develop a plot. Marilyn Coulter: [61:48] A plot for what? Eldridge Cook: Yep. That they wanna do a gardenin’ last, this last year now. They only had a little plot about from 4 feet by 6 feet, and they dug it up with a shovel, and I told’m next year I would plow it up for them and make’m a big plot with my, uh, tractor. Marilyn Coulter: [62:08] Now, what it is that ya do for your church? Eldridge Cook: I am assistant superintendent right now, and I go on trips. We take the kids on Sunday School trips to Cedar Points. We’ve been to the mall outside of Milwaukee, the one up, uh, I can’t remember the name of it right now, but we’ve taken’m up there, and we go to Cedar Point. We have been to the mall in Chicago. Diff’rent places. We took’m in Toronto one summer, so we do a lotta things with the Sunday School kids. Marilyn Coulter: [62:43] Now, being an ex-employee of yours, I know that you do have a certain few sportsman-type hobbies that… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: …did – some of us didn’t get ta partake in, I would say… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: …and you are an avid hunter. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: And fisherman. Eldridge Cook: Yes, ma’am. Marilyn Coulter: [63:03] And now, did you ever fish or hunt with any of your coworkers? Eldridge Cook: Uh, no. Never, never did, uh, I – yes, I do. I take that back. I hunt, I mean I hunt. I fish with one, [Ed Duckett 63:14] He’s my fishin’ buddy. We go fishin’ a lot. We go down to, uh, Lake Erie fishin’… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Eldridge Cook: …so I enjoy that. We go to the local lakes here fishin’ and we, we really have a good time doin’ that. Oh. Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: And I know you often play cards… Eldridge Cook: [Inaudible 63:36] Marilyn Coulter: …with the coworkers? Eldridge Cook: Yeah. I played this with – can’t find nobody ta really challenge us, so… Marilyn Coulter: [laughter] Eldridge Cook: …my buddy and I, I think we gonna kinda hang that up. We can’t get no takers. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Well, you’re… Earl Nicholson: Just a parting shot, I know the, the interview – Earl Nicholson. Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Earl Nicholson: I know the interview is comin’ to an end. [63:58] Um, just, uh, one thing, one more question from me and that would be how you feel about General Motors and the gent of the situation General Motors is goin’, goin’ through right now. This is, uh, this is 19-, this is 2006… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Earl Nicholson: …and we know that General Motors is in a little bit of trouble… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Earl Nicholson: uh, does that bother you? Eldridge Cook: Yes, it does because it affect me. [laughter] I still have a paycheck comin’ from General Motors too, but you gotta look back in hindsight. General Motors has been good to a lotta people for a long, long time. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Eldridge Cook: And ya ain’t gonna find another job anywhere in the United State that treat their employees like General Motors does, and so, you know, General Motors had been I think, and, um, speakin’ to myself right now too, I think General Motor been too good to a lotta people for too long, and I really truly mean that. But we also deserve everything that we’ve gotten from General Motors also that – General Motors in trouble now, and we gonna have ta bite the bullet and give up a little bit ta keep some of the stuff that we have. Marilyn Coulter: Cookie, Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: Was there anything else? [65:18] As we come to the end of the interview, I would like ta say on record… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: …being a past employee of yours… Eldridge Cook: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: …yes, you were a good supervisor… Eldridge Cook: Hm. Marilyn Coulter: …and I wanna say thank you not only for being a supervisor but thank you for helpin’ me through the times when my father passed away ‘cause you were an excellent supervisor to have durin’ that time and thank you for taking time for this interview. Eldridge Cook: You’re more than welcome. Cheryl McQuaid: Thank you, Cookie. Earl Nicholson: Thanks Cook. Jerri Smith: Thank you, Cook. Eldridge Cook: Anytime. Gary Judy: Thank you, Cook. Eldridge Cook: Thank you. Gary Judy: Good seein’ ya. Eldridge Cook: Yep. /ls