The Fisher Body Old Crates, a group of women who retired from salaried clerical jobs at the Fisher Body plant in Lansing, MI, offer a female perspective of work in the factory during careers spanning five decades Doug Rademacher: [recorder clicking] [background conversation] Good afternoon. This is Doug Rademacher. [background conversation] I'm at [background conversation] Applebee's on West Saginaw, [background conversation] Lansing, Michigan. [clicking] It is January 11th [clanking] and I'm going to interview some women [clanking] who worked in Salary from the [papers rustling] Fisher Body Plant. And this is the Lansing Fisher Body Historical Team and we're recording this for Michigan State University Oral History Project. [clanking] [recorder clicking] [clanking] And I believe we're recording. This is the Lansing Fisher Body Historical Team. [background conversation] Uh, Doug Rademacher interviewing the ladies at [clanking] Applebee's on West Saginaw. [clanking] Good morning, lady – or good afternoon ladies. [laughter] [0:46] Did you wanna go around the room? Shirley Sanborn: My name's Shirley Sanborn. [clanking] I hired in at Fisher Body in 1949 [background conversation] [thumping] and retired on January 1st, 1993, [background conversation] and have enjoyed every minute of my retirement. [laughter] I've already interviewed with Doug [clanking] so [background conversation] somebody else go 'head. Genevieve Treadwell: Well my name's Gen, Gen, Genevieve Treadwell and I hired in [background conversation] [clanking] December 3rd, [background conversation] 1966 and, and [rustling] I hired in to General Accounting and then I worked in Payroll and then Data Processing [clanking] and then [clanking] down in Material Control, secretary in Material Control [background conversation] and I did some [real quiet 1:33], [clanking] I had to go down and, uh, babysit Florence Jeffrey's chair while she was gone [laughter] on coffee break or such things. [background conversation] [laughter] And there's something I would like to say, but, uh... Doug Rademacher: Please do. This is. [background conversation] Genevieve Treadwell: ...they had a, they had a meeting [background conversation] place there, and I heard some words [background conversation] that I'd never heard before [background conversation] while the, they were having their morning meeting, [background noises]and [clanking] really did, [background conversation] and, um, I [background conversation] worked in Material until I retired [scratching] and, um... [background conversation] [rattling] Doug Rademacher: [2:15] Well what was it like? Did you... Genevieve Treadwell: I poi-, I will though say I have not got anything but, um, General Motors cars since I started work there. [background conversation] And I was driving Ford when I started workin' there. Doug Rademacher: [2:28] And was all your years wonderful there or did? Genevieve Treadwell: Yeah. Great. Yup, I, um, a great place to work. [background conversation] Many benefits, lots a friends. [background conversation] It was, it was great. It was a great place to work. And I did, do hate to see anybody that works there [background noises] who buys other than a GM car. Doug Rademacher: Well I agree with ya on that. [2:49] Um, what brought you to Fisher Body? Did you, uh, hear about them employing or [background noises] [background conversation] did you... Genevieve Treadwell: No. Doug Rademacher: ...take school or what, what exactly brought you to [inaudible 2:57]. [background noises] [background conversation] Genevieve Treadwell: A neighbor move, a lady moved into our neighbor and she worked there, and I got [background noises] [inaudible 3:03] I told her one day I'd like to work for some big company like General Motors. [background conversation] [background noises] So I started to work there about a month later. [background conversation] [background noises] Doug Rademacher: [3:12] And how old were ya at that time? Genevieve Treadwell: I'm not tellin'. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: Some things stay secret, huh? Genevieve Treadwell: No, I'll tell ya how old I am not, but not [laughter] [inaudible 3:21]. No, I'm not gonna. No. Doug Rademacher: Okay. Genevieve Treadwell: I guess that's about it. Doug Rademacher: Okay. Judy Devers: I'm Judy Devers and, uh, I hired in 1966. Uh, my husband [background conversation] interviewed for a job with [background conversation] Oldsmobile [background conversation] and they were [background noises] desperate for help at the time and I didn't even interview for the job; they just called and asked if I'd come in, and I did. [background noises] I know that's not the way it is today. Uh, I worked in Labor Relations my entire time there, by choice. [background conversation] Um, [background conversation] we were talking about the different things that used to be. We can remember when the women first were allowed, or wore pantsuits. We all got together and the same day came in with'm. [background conversation] Some a the bosses almost had heart attacks when they saw us in suits, [laughter] pantsuits. Um. Doug Rademacher: [4:07] So the clothing at that time was, up till then was only, [background conversation], uh... Female: Dress. Doug Rademacher: ...dress, blouses, and... Judy Devers: Dress. Doug Rademacher: ...skirts or what was it? [background noises] Female: Dresses. Judy Devers: Yup. Female: We didn't wear... Judy Devers: Dresses. Female: ...pants. Doug Rademacher: Dresses? Judy Devers: I remember one of the fellas getting sent home for wearing a pale yellow shirt. It had to be a white shirt and tie. Female: Mm-hm. Judy Devers: Um. Doug Rademacher: [4:25] Were you received well as a woman when you came in... Judy Devers: Yes. Doug Rademacher: ...into your department? [background conversation] Judy Devers: Yeah. I, I [coughing] worked with very, very nice people my entire career. I was very lucky. Um, [background conversation] tryin' to think. Um. Oh, we were talking about different things they used to have that they don't have now were coffee break rooms. [background conversation] We used to always have a coffee break. I think you women, or maybe everybody in general, could only work so many hours without a break. Am I right? Female: [background conversation] [Inaudible 4:52]. Judy Devers: Or maybe it was the [inaudible 4:55]. Female: [Inaudible 4:55]. Female: [Inaudible 4:55]. Female: But they had [inaudible 4:56]. Female: [Inaudible 4:55] 20 minutes in the morning and 20 minutes in the afternoon. Judy Devers: Yeah, yeah. I don't know how that – [background conversation] I think the coffee break rooms got taken over as offices or something and eventually they disappeared. Doug Rademacher: [5:07] And so it didn't go out with just concession machines? It went out before that? Judy Devers: Yeah, it went out before that. [background conversation] And I, for a while we went up to the [tapping] cafeteria, [background conversation] but then that. Female: Did you, did you work there when they used to have the coffee wagons go around the Plant? Doug Rademacher: Oh, absolutely. The Wagon... Female: Coffee wagon. Doug Rademacher: ...that they spoke of. Female: Oh yeah. Doug Rademacher: [5:21] And so, were, [throat clearing] did you frequent the wagon also or just? Female: Nope, never did. Doug Rademacher: No, but you. Judy Devers: We had vending machines down in the coffee break rooms. [background conversation] Female: We used to sneak out [inaudible 5:29] then. Judy Devers: Yeah, [laughter] that's it, off the w-, off the wagon. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: [5:33] Now, did you set up, after the coffee break room went up, did you set up a coffee pot and everyone kind of go around that area or somethin'? Judy Devers: Yeah. A few people had coffee pots and we'd go down, and it was really a better deal, pay a nickel for a cup a coffee or a dime rather than what we were paying. [background conversation] Um, what else did we have that was – [background conversation] oh, there was the Executive Dining Room, and I know that the executives went up there for lunch and had prime rib and lobster for about $3 or something. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: [6:03] And you... Judy Devers: The rest of us didn't have that. Doug Rademacher: ...you weren't included in that? Judy Devers: No. [laughter] [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [6:09] Uh, can you talk about, [background conversation] uh, who was one a the [background conversation] best bosses you worked for? Judy Devers: I had... Doug Rademacher: Were they all good? Judy Devers: ...I had a lotta nice ones, I really did. I did. Doug Rademacher: [6:20] Is there anything that stands out in your memory as one of the best days ya ever had working at Fisher Body? Did you impact somebody's. Female: [Inaudible 6:27] day I retired. Judy Devers: The day you retired. [laughter] Female: I think every day was pretty good. Judy Devers: No, yeah, I, I agree with [Betty 6:30]. I think, ya know, I enjoyed goin' to work. And I thought I'd have a hard time when I retired. I didn't, but I thought I would. [background conversation] Lotta my friends were from [background conversation] outta state, and a lotta my friends were Fisher Body people, and [background conversation] still are. Doug Rademacher: [6:48] When you hired in, did you expect to work there [background conversation] your whole career [background conversation] or that was your plan or did you, [background conversation] was that just a stepping stone, in your mind? Judy Devers: No. No, I, [background conversation] I planned to work there my whole career. Doug Rademacher: Okay. Judy Devers: That's, [background conversation] that's really somethin' that maybe doesn't happen anymore, [background conversation] but, ya know, [background conversation] you, you were [background conversation] really dedicated because you wanted to get in your, your time for your retirement. [background conversation] The health insurance, the benefits were great. [background conversation] Pay was, the pay was good. [background conversation] Female: Paid good to women. Judy Devers: Yeah, for a woman, it was very good. Doug Rademacher: [7:18] For a woman? Judy Devers: Being a secretary. Doug Rademacher: And so what do you mean? At that time, was hard to find w-, employment? Judy Devers: Well, lotta times... Doug Rademacher: That paid well outside? Judy Devers: ...men were, were, uh, promoted who [background conversation] there were women who were better – more qualified, let me say that. Doug Rademacher: [7:32] And what – was it, uh, cronyism or was it, uh, [background conversation] seniority? Of course, with the union, it was. Judy Devers: Oh, it wasn't seniority. Doug Rademacher: No? Female: It was chauvinistic. Judy Devers: Yeah. [laughter] Chauvinistic. [laughter] Female: Glass ceiling. Doug Rademacher: [background conversation] [7:44] So did that stay in place all the time? [background conversation] Did ya feel that [background conversation] that chauvinism or... Judy Devers: No, not a... Doug Rademacher: ...was there a time when... Judy Devers: ...not... Doug Rademacher: ...when it finally was? Judy Devers: ...not at the end it wasn't as much as it was [background conversation] for a while there. There was just no way a woman was [background conversation] gonna get a promotion. [background conversation] Female: There's still a difference, too. Judy Devers: The – well, [background conversation] I don't know now. But yeah, [background conversation] for a while, it was... Female: [background conversation] At one point... Judy Devers: ...it was obvious. Female: ...there were no female supervisors. [background conversation] Judy Devers: Uh. Female: And there was no blacks. The only black person was a [wood 8:07] cleaner. Female: Couldn't be married, either. Judy Devers: Oh, that's right. Female: [Inaudible 8:11] said that... Female: No, you couldn't. Female: ...you couldn't be married. Female: No, you couldn't be married. Female: Oh that's right, you couldn't be married [inaudible 8:13]. Female: If you were pregnant, you had to leave at 6 months. [background conversation] Female: Yup. Doug Rademacher: [8:16] So [background conversation] [inaudible 8:18] you couldn't be married and work or you couldn't be married? Judy Devers: No, you couldn't be married... Female: If you worked in the same department. Judy Devers: ...to another person... Genevieve Treadwell: In the same department. Shirley Sanborn: In the same department. Judy Devers: ...in the same department. Female: You could work in the Plant, but you didn't, couldn't be in the same department. Doug Rademacher: [8:29] Now, did dating go on anyway behind the scenes? Female: Oh, of course. Oh, of course. [laughter] Female: [Inaudible 8:33]. Female: [Inaudible 8:33]. Female: [Inaudible 8:33]. [laughter] [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [8:37] Even though they might not be [presidents 8:38] in your story, you could share about that. Judy Devers: No, I can't name names. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: [Inaudible 8:42]? Could you just say... Judy Devers: We all know. Doug Rademacher: ...there was this couple or? [laughter] Female: Nope. Female: Mm-mm. Female: No. Female: Are you sure, Judy? Judy Devers: I'm sure. [laughter] Go ahead, it's – you have your chance next. Female: No. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: Oh please, don't be shy at all. We all. Female: Both of the nurses. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: Yes, I, I've talked with a few of you before at the last, uh, at the last meeting. [background conversation] Female: Can you do that? Female: I don't know. Doug Rademacher: [9:03] So I guess... Marge Morey: Well. Doug Rademacher: ...would you like to share your name and? Marge Morey: I'm Marge Morey and I work in the hospital there, [background conversation] but I was fortunate enough, [background conversation], eh, uh, to get a... Female: [Inaudible 9:15]. Marge Morey: ...have some experience [tapping] down in Detroit [tapping] [background conversation], uh, [background conversation] at Continental Motors, [background conversation] uh, as an industrial nurse. Doug Rademacher: Okay. Marge Morey: And I just loved it so much. So when I married my husband who lived in Lansing, [background conversation] well, I decided I was gonna try to [background conversation] get a job industrial nursing, [background conversation] and I went over, I put my name in all the different factories, and I went over to [background noises] [background conversation] Fisher Body. [laughter] And that's when [Marge Rearden 9:39] [tapping] was [laughter] a nurse that was leaving and, and when they heard [background conversation] I had worked in [background conversation] Detroit [background conversation] and, oh, I was hired. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: [9:48] And how did you meet your husband and did he work for General Motors? Marge Morey: N-, uh, no, he worked for the state. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: Okay. [background conversation] Marge Morey: In Highway [background conversation] Department [background conversation]. All a that. [laughter] It was – when I worked at [tapping] Continental Motors, they went on strike [background conversation] and, uh, [background conversation] one year while I was working there, [background conversation] and [background conversation] they were payin' the salary people, and they finally decided "This is ridiculous. We're paying these people for sitting here." [background conversation] And the strike went on for quite a long time. [background conversation] So [background conversation] couple days, the day before [tapping] the 4th a July [background conversation] they said every salaried person had to take their vacation [background conversation] tomorrow, starting tomorrow [background conversation] for 4th a July [background conversation] for a week. [background conversation] And I had, I was savin' my money; I wanted to take a cruise. [laughter] [background conversation] And I had to take my vacation, [background conversation] and that changed [background conversation] everything. [background conversation] So I went, uh, up to Miss-, to Ludington and [background conversation] was visitin' a friend of mine that [background conversation] I worked with down there [background conversation] and she moved to [background conversation] Ludington. [background conversation] And my [background conversation] husband-to-be, [laughter] I didn't know, [background conversation] [coughing] but he and another friend, [background conversation] a mutual friend [background conversation] a this friend a mine come up the [background conversation] 4th a July, [background conversation] and that's... Doug Rademacher: [background conversation] [11:01] To Ludington? Marge Morey: ...that where [background conversation] it happened, but I mean, it wasn't immediately, but [background conversation] that's how we met [background conversation] up there. And he, [background conversation] he lived in Lansing [background conversation] and, uh, [background conversation] he, we started to date, we dated for about a year [background conversation] [tapping], and then [tapping] [background conversation] we got married. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [11:17] And you commuted from [tapping] Detroit to Lansing to see each other? [background conversation] Marge Morey: [background conversation] Uh, well no, uh, [background conversation] he's passed away, but I worked in Continental Motor, [background movement] or at, uh, Fisher Body [background conversation] until [background conversation] our son came along, and then he didn't want me to work anymore. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: Oh, I was meaning [background conversation] about, uh, when you guys courted... Marge Morey: [background conversation] Oh yeah, he used to... Doug Rademacher: ...he lived in Lansing... Marge Morey: ...come down. Doug Rademacher: ...and you were. Marge Morey: Yeah, he used to... Doug Rademacher: Did. Marge Morey: ...come down [background conversation] on Friday night after [background conversation] work [background conversation] and stayed in [background conversation] a motel and, [background conversation] and g-, leave [background conversation] Monday morning. [throat clearing] He used to drive me to work [laughter] [background conversation] Monday morning at Continental Motors [background conversation] and then he'd c-, come up to the state, [background conversation] eh, f-, to start his job at 8:00. [background conversation] And I... Doug Rademacher: [background conversation] [Inaudible 11:53]. Marge Morey: ...worked at 7. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [background conversation] [11:55] And you were a nurse [background conversation] at Fisher Body? Marge Morey: Uh, yeah. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [11:57] And you saw many [background conversation] different bosses [background conversation] over the years? [laughter] Marge Morey: Well, [background conversation] yeah, [background conversation] but I can't remember their names. Doug Rademacher: Okay. [background conversation] [12:04] Do you, um, do you remember... Marge Morey: The. Doug Rademacher: ...what it was like [background conversation] to have a, uh, [background conversation] auto assembler [background conversation] come off the assembly line and, and the injuries and things? [background conversation] Marge Morey: Oh. Yeah, [inaudible 12:13]. Doug Rademacher: What was it like? Did ya... Marge Morey: Oh. Doug Rademacher: ...did ya feel for those people? [background conversation] Or did you, uh. [background conversation] Marge Morey: Yes, but ya know, they, [background conversation] they treated a lot of, of, uh, [background conversation] cases there and Joyce, of course, she can remember this too. [background conversation] But no, at – because they had a nice hospital, [background conversation] completely furnished, [background conversation] and, uh, [background conversation] so and a doctor full-time and, uh [background movement] [background conversation]. But [background conversation] it, it just got to the point, [background conversation] what if it was a real bad case? [background conversation] Then they just, they would just take'm right over to the closest hospital, [background conversation] which was St. Lawrence. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [12:46] Now, you worked at, uh, [background conversation] in that field in Detroit. [background conversation] [tapping] Was there a difference when you came to Lansing? [background conversation] Was it... Marge Morey: [background conversation] Yeah, it was... Doug Rademacher: ...you just said it was... Marge Morey: ...a st-... Doug Rademacher: ...a full [inaudible 12:54]. Marge Morey: ...uh, yeah, it was, uh, [background conversation] smaller. [background movement] Our hos-, it, they call it a first aid. [background movement] They didn't even call it – [background movement] but it was, [background conversation] ya know, I mean, we took care [background conversation] of patients there, [background conversation] but that, [tapping] the serious cases [background conversation] were always taken to the hospital. [background conversation] And but where with Lansing, though, it, [background conversation] it Fisher Body, [background conversation] they had every – and I mean, you could [background conversation] treat everything and anything there. [background conversation] Because they were equipped [background conversation] for that. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: And. [background conversation] Female: I had a [inaudible 13:19] surgery on treatment. Marge Morey: Oh yeah. Lotta treatment rooms, and rest rooms and sleep. [laughter] [background conversation] A lotta the patients just [inaudible 13:28]. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: That's quite all right. Marge Morey: [laughter] No. Doug Rademacher: [13:31] What was the, um... Marge Morey: Patients. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: ...[inaudible 13:32] [background conversation] the most common, [background conversation] uh, reason that someone would come up there? [laughter] Was it. Marge Morey: I think to rest. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: To rest? Female: Yeah. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: Was it, uh, [laughter] [background movement] was there, uh... Female: [background movement] [Inaudible 13:42]. Doug Rademacher: ...I just wondered if the, uh. [background conversation] Marge Morey: Ya had to take, [background conversation] and they, they were never [background conversation] in a hurry to go back. [laughter] [background conversation] Their foreman used to call down [background conversation] [inaudible 13:48]. "What's takin' so long?" [laughter] [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [13:51] [Inaudible 13:51] you. [background conversation] "What are you tryin' to do, [background noises] [background conversation] [inaudible 13:54] somebody up there? Send'm back to the line." [laughter] [background conversation] Marge Morey: [background conversation] No, but it really, [background conversation] we used to kinda, [background conversation] [background movement] it was kind of a joke [background conversation] with us because they'd [background conversation] come down through [inaudible 14:03]... Female: Yeah. [background conversation] Marge Morey: ...and [background conversation]... Female: [Inaudible 14:03]. [background conversation] Marge Morey: ...[background conversation] but they was just smart and they knew what they could [background conversation] get by, get away with, [background conversation] I think. [laughter] [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: Did you. [background conversation] Marge Morey: And then they would... Doug Rademacher: [14:10] But there were glass... Marge Morey: ...most of'm... Doug Rademacher: ... [inaudible 14:11]? Marge Morey: ...had a raise, [background conversation] eh, most of'm had to, uh, [background conversation] rest. [laughter] [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [laughter] [background conversation] [14:16] So, uh, but I was just wondering have you noticed, [laughter] [background conversation] uh, over the years [background conversation] a difference [background conversation] in the type of injuries [background conversation] that people came in [background conversation] with? [background conversation] Was it, uh, [background conversation] back then, [background conversation] ya had the [background conversation] older welders [background conversation] and, [background conversation] and the type of [background conversation] equipment they used to use [background conversation] that was heavy and... Marge Morey: I, I think. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: ...and cumbersome? [background conversation] Did it [background conversation] have a lot more... Marge Morey: [background conversation] Uh. Doug Rademacher: ...strains [background conversation] and sprains [background conversation] and... Marge Morey: [background conversation] Uh, yeah. Doug Rademacher: ...lacerations... Marge Morey: [background conversation] Yeah. Doug Rademacher: ...or did it get better as, [background conversation] as the... Marge Morey: No. Doug Rademacher: ...as the safety went, [laughter] went on? [background conversation] [laughter] Never got better, huh? [laughter] [background movement] [background conversation] Marge Morey: No, a lotta them came in with [background conversation] back, back, [background conversation] hurt their back. [background conversation] [laughter] Doug Rademacher: [background conversation] Well I know I went through that myself, so. [background conversation] Marge Morey: Oh did you? Doug Rademacher: [background conversation] Oh, [inaudible 14:52]. Marge Morey: You really did [background conversation] hurt it? [laughter] Doug Rademacher: Oh, I've had, [laughter] [background conversation] I've worked there 27 years, [background conversation] yes, [laughter] [background conversation] and I, [laughter] I did hurt my [background conversation] back [inaudible 14:57]. [background conversation] Marge Morey: No but that was one, [background conversation] ya know, [background conversation] I mean [background movement] a lotta, [background conversation] ya wondered about it, but probably had reasons enough that they said they injured it, [background conversation] ya know, [background conversation] on the job [background conversation] and they'd come down and [laughter] [background conversation] get a treatment [background conversation] and [background conversation] rest. [background conversation] [laughter] Doug Rademacher: Did you ever [background noises] [background conversation] have the opportunity [background noises] [background conversation] to go out and watch [background conversation] people on the assembly line [background noises] [background conversation] as a nurse? [background conversation] Marge Morey: [background conversation] Uh, n-, we [background conversation] were taken out on [background noises] tours and [background conversation] stuff, but no. Actually, [background noises] [background conversation] we didn't have [background conversation] to go up to. [background conversation] Female: Well, we had to [background conversation] go through the Body Shop to [background conversation] get to the... Marge Morey: Go to the Cushion Room. [laughter] Female: ...Cushion Room [inaudible 15:26], [background conversation] [laughter] because they had a small [background noises] [background conversation] [inaudible 15:29]. [background conversation] [background noises] [clanking] [background conversation] Marge Morey: 'Cause it was a long walk [background noises] over to the main [background conversation] [background noises] [background conversation] main [background noises] [background conversation] hospital. [background noises] [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [background conversation] Okay. [background conversation] Female: [background conversation] And then they, they built that [background conversation] nice beautiful new hospital, [laughter] ya know, and we, [background conversation] we had the old one. [background conversation] [laughter] [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [background conversation] Just gonna move this tape recorder [background conversation] down a little further. [background conversation] [tapping] [laughter] As we do this. Female: I hope you missed [background conversation] [background movement] a couple a the things I said. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: Oh, I hope not. [laughter] We wanna get all a this. It's just, [recorder clicking] [background conversation] actually it's just, [background conversation] [laughter] like I said, [background movement] it's for historical purposes... Female: Oh. Doug Rademacher: ...not for anybody's [background conversation] to be afraid of. Female: Yeah. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [background conversation] [recorder clicking] [16:06] Go ahead and say your name. Joyce Burch: Joyce Burch, [background conversation] Medical Department. [background conversation] And we used to have fun [background noises] when I first hired in there. [background conversation] [background noises] Doug Rademacher: [16:17] When did ya hire in? [background conversation] Joyce Burch: 1950. [tapping] [background conversation] [background noises] September [background noises] 1950. [rattling] [background conversation] [background noises] And then I [background conversation] left for a year [background conversation] and then I [background conversation] [background noises] came back again and [background conversation] they hired me [background noises] [background conversation] as a part-time [background conversation] help [background conversation] but I went on [background conversation] to be the head nurse and, [laughter] [background conversation] and [after 16:35]. Doug Rademacher: [16:36] Why did you leave for a year? [background conversation] [background noises] Joyce Burch: Well, my husband [background conversation] wanted to [background noises] move to Florida. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: Okay. [16:44] And that didn't work out [background conversation] and ya decided... Joyce Burch: No. Doug Rademacher: ...to go back for employment? [background conversation] Joyce Burch: [background conversation] If I went down and went to work, [background conversation] it woulda been fine, [background noises] [background conversation] but he wouldn't go to work so I wouldn't go to work, [background conversation] so we came home. [background conversation] [laughter] Doug Rademacher: Guess that settled that, huh? [laughter] So. Marge Morey: I forgot. Doug Rademacher: [16:59] Talk about your, [background conversation] uh, hiring into the Plant. [background conversation] Was that... Marge Morey: I forgot to tell. Doug Rademacher: ...your goal [background conversation] was to [writing] stay there also or was it, [background conversation] uh, [background conversation] a stepping stone for something that you had thought about? [background noises] [background conversation] Joyce Burch: No, [background conversation] I liked the work and [background noises][background conversation] it was in my [background noises] field [background noises] [inaudible 17:10] [background conversation] and [background conversation] we had a good time, and. [background conversation] [background noises] Female: You liked the people? Marge Morey: I... Joyce Burch: Yeah. Marge Morey: ...I forgot to tell you, [background conversation] I started in 1949.[background conversation] Doug Rademacher: Oh. [laughter] [background conversation] Joyce Burch: Marge and I worked together for several years [background conversation] until she left [background conversation] [inaudible 17:30]... Marge Morey: [Inaudible 17:30]. Joyce Burch: ...[inaudible 17:30]. [laughter] Marge Morey: [background conversation] Yeah, 1955. [laughter] [background conversation] Yeah. [background noises] [background conversation] Joyce Burch: And I retired in [background conversation] 1977. [background conversation] [background noises] July. [background conversation] And I had a [background conversation] [background noises] good relationship all through [it all 17:43] and everything. [background conversation] Marge Morey: It, it was fun. [background conversation] [background noises] Joyce Burch: Uh, Dr. [Ashner 17:47] was our [background noises] head doctor, [background conversation] [background noises] and everything went find while he was there, [background noises] [background conversation] and then when he [background conversation] retired [laughter] they just hired anybody [laughter] and... Doug Rademacher: [background conversation] [17:57] Now... Joyce Burch: ...and get used to it. Doug Rademacher: ... y-, you mentioned that doctor's name. Was he, he did a good job? Did you feel that. Joyce Burch: Oh yeah. Oh gosh. Doug Rademacher: [18:04] Was working at the Fisher Body [background noises] Plant as a doctor a good job? [background conversation] [Inaudible 18:08]. Joyce Burch: Dr. Ashner [background conversation] started the first [background conversation] medical department [background conversation] in Oldsmobile [background conversation] and then [background conversation] [background noises] when they built [background conversation] Fisher Body, he went [background conversation] [background noises] over there [background conversation] and. [background conversation] Marge Morey: [background conversation] He was [background conversation] the best doctor, [background conversation] though. [background conversation] I mean, he gave [background noises] [background conversation] those patients [background conversation] good care. Joyce Burch: [Inaudible 18:25]. Right. [background conversation] [background noises] Marge Morey: And, uh, he was [background conversation] strict. [laughter] [background conversation] Joyce Burch: Oh yeah. [background conversation] [laughter] Marge Morey: But he was good too. [background conversation] Joyce Burch: They finally let us wear pantsuits [background conversation] in about [background conversation] '65, was that? [background conversation] Marge Morey: Yeah. [background conversation] Joyce Burch: [background conversation] Somethin' like that. [background conversation] [Inaudible 18:42]. Doug Rademacher: [18:42] And you went out in '75, [background conversation] so... Joyce Burch: '77. Doug Rademacher: ...what was the feeling, [background conversation] [background noises] was it, [background conversation] was there pressure on women [background conversation] when you first hired in [coughing] [background conversation] or were you just [throat clearing] [background conversation] received? Marge Morey: Mm. Joyce Burch: No, not in the Medical Department. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: Not in the Medical? [background conversation] Marge Morey: Uh-uh. [background conversation] Joyce Burch: [background conversation] Just a buncha nurses that worked together and [background conversation] we had to switch shifts all the time... Marge Morey: Every 3 days. Joyce Burch: ...just like they did on the line [laughter] but, uh. Doug Rademacher: [19:04] Now that was 2 shifts [background conversation] or 3 shifts [background conversation] you... Marge Morey: [background conversation] 2. Doug Rademacher: ...switched? [background conversation] Joyce Burch: 2. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [background conversation] Two shifts? [background conversation] Joyce Burch: Mm-hm. [background conversation] We worked the, [background conversation] the line time, [background conversation] and [clanking] [background noises] if there was [background conversation] any. Marge Morey: [clanking] [background conversation] 25 men workin' [background conversation] and we had to work [background conversation] overtime. Joyce Burch: [background conversation] [Inaudible 19:18]. [background conversation] Marge Morey: And they, but they couldn't [background noises] [background conversation] work any longer than, [background conversation] [background noises] what, 10, [background conversation] [background noises] uh, 10 hours a day, [background conversation] though. Joyce Burch: [Inaudible 19:24]. Marge Morey: At that time you couldn't, [background movement] [background conversation] 10 hours [background noises] [background conversation] but 25 men employees workin', [background noises] [background conversation] had a stay. [background conversation] [background noises] And we took turns, [clanking] [background noises] [background conversation] didn't we? [laughter] Joyce Burch: Mm-hm. [laughter] [background noises] [background conversation] Somebody had to be there to cover [background conversation] [background noises] [laughter] while they were [background conversation] working. [laughter] [background conversation] [background noises] Doug Rademacher: Yeah. [19:38] And did you do things in the Medical Department? [background conversation] As a team, did you have [background conversation] lunches together or did you do things [background conversation] at the holiday times? [background conversation] Marge Morey: Uh-huh. Doug Rademacher: Or [background conversation] were you all individually [background noises] [background conversation] kinda? Joyce Burch: Uh. Marge Morey: No, we, we. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [background conversation] [background noises] How'd ya spend your lunches [background conversation] and things? [background conversation] Marge Morey: Oh. [background conversation] Well, [laughter] 2 of us went to, [laughter] we had, [laughter] we had 2 – what are you laughing about? No, we had 2 nurses would go at a time, right? [background conversation] Joyce Burch: Yeah. Marge Morey: 2 of us, [background conversation] uh, for lunch [background conversation] and then come back and then two more. [background noises] [background conversation] [tapping] Doug Rademacher: [20:08] Oh, was there, uh, ever... Joyce Burch: [Inaudible 20:11]. Doug Rademacher: ...was there a place called Harry's Place? Was that ever? Marge Morey: [laughter] Oh yeah, but we knew the c-, [tapping] the afternoon shift. [laughter] We knew when they were over at Harry's. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: So. Marge Morey: [laughter] They'd pay us a visit. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: [background conversation] [20:25] Was that more of a, [laughter] [background conversation] it was more of an afternoon shift than a day shift [background noises] [background conversation] visit or? [background conversation] I know they serve [background conversation] lunches and things over there. Marge Morey: No we didn't, not during the day. Joyce Burch: We didn't go in ourselves... Marge Morey: [background conversation] No. Joyce Burch: ...we'd get'm comin' back, and, uh, the afternoon shift [laughter] was the one. Doug Rademacher: Yes. Joyce Burch: We did all our own suturing and everything, [background conversation] unless it was a major [background conversation] thing [background conversation] [background noises] that they had a have an [background noises] anesthetic, [background conversation] then [background conversation] [background noises] gave'm all kinds a treats. Marge Morey: [background conversation] They liked the treatments 'cause they could lay down. [background conversation] Joyce Burch: Yeah. [laughter] [background conversation] [Inaudible 21:00]. [background conversation] Marge Morey: [background conversation] They could lay down for 20 minutes [background conversation] or 20 minutes. [laughter] [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [21:04] What's your thought about [background conversation] [laughter] nowadays they've added a [background conversation] physical therapist [background conversation] that they a separate room where [background conversation] the, [background conversation] if they feel it was a work-related injury, they'd, [background conversation] they would have you... Marge Morey: [background conversation] Oh. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: ...go to physical therapy [background conversation] within the [background conversation] Plant... Marge Morey: [background conversation] Oh, we had [background conversation] all a. Doug Rademacher: ...itself? Female: [Inaudible 21:18] Doug Rademacher: [21:18] You had all that too? Marge Morey: Oh yah. Yeah, they had [background conversation] machines [background conversation] [inaudible 21:22]. [background conversation] Joyce Burch: [background conversation] [background noises] Yeah. I don't regret it a bit. I [background conversation] liked... Marge Morey: Oh it was [inaudible 21:30]. [background conversation] Joyce Burch: ...the time I worked there. [background conversation] Marge Morey: And [inaudible 21:32]. Joyce Burch: When I was referring to Judy is [background conversation] 2 of you, [background conversation] man and wife, [background conversation] working together. Ya know, [background conversation] well, [background conversation] I married the [background conversation] safety supervisor. [background conversation] [laughter] [background conversation] Female: Pretty good place for romance. [laughter] [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [background conversation] It was, [background conversation] [laughter] it was a wonderful place [laughter] for romance... Joyce Burch: Yeah. Doug Rademacher: ...huh? [laughter] [background conversation] [21:53] And [background conversation] so you [background conversation] ran across your husband in there, eh, over a period of years [background conversation] and... Joyce Burch: Yeah. Doug Rademacher: ...were able to, uh, [background conversation] well, they couldn't do anything about it once you were [background conversation] married, right? [background conversation] Joyce Burch: Well, they could've kicked me out or they could've kicked him out, but they [background conversation] didn't say anything. [background noises] [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [22:13] But there was an effort to [background conversation] keep people from... Joyce Burch: [background conversation] [background noises] Yeah. Doug Rademacher: ...engaging in, [background conversation] [background noises] in... Joyce Burch: At first it was. Doug Rademacher: ...[inaudible 22:18] or it was just, [background conversation] was that just, what do ya think [background conversation] the reason [background conversation] [background noises] was? [background conversation] Why did they wanna [background conversation] keep people [background conversation] apart? [background noises] [background conversation] Because. [laughter] Female: The rules. [background conversation] Joyce Burch: Oh, [background conversation] might, [background conversation] one might [background conversation] cover for the other one. [background conversation] [background noises] [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: I know that they didn't want [background conversation] supervisors interacting [background conversation] with the workers... Joyce Burch: [background conversation] [background noises] Yeah. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: ...out on [background conversation] the floor. [background conversation] [background noises] You couldn't date also, [background conversation] but I don't know [background conversation] really the years that [background conversation] were in place [background conversation] for that. [background conversation] Joyce Burch: [background conversation] [background noises] And [inaudible 22:46] [background noises] [background conversation] late '60s and '70s they finally started [inaudible 22:51] [background conversation] [background noises]. Doug Rademacher: 'Kay. [background conversation] [background noises] [laughter] How are you? You're just gonna pass today? [background conversation] Are you? Nora MacKenzie: I think I'll pass. [laughter] [background noises] [background conversation] [Inaudible 23:00] very well, [background conversation] [background noises] don't speak very well. [background conversation] [background noises] Doug Rademacher: Would you like to share your name for the record, though, [coughing] [background conversation] today? Did ya? [background conversation] Nora MacKenzie: My name [background movement] is [background conversation] Nora [clanking] [background conversation] MacKenzie [background conversation] and, uh. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: Okay, [background conversation] [background noises] Norma. [background conversation] Well, [background conversation] thank you for [background conversation] sharing that you, uh, [background conversation] have lunch with the ladies [background conversation] and still get together. [background conversation] It's obvious you've become good friends [background conversation] over the years. [background conversation] [background noises] [papers rustling] [23:21] So, uh, how bout over at this side a the table? [background conversation] [background noises] [laughter] Lillian Matter: [background conversation] [background noises] I'm Lillian Matter... Doug Rademacher: [background conversation] [background noises] Hi, Lillian. Lillian Matter: ...and [background conversation] the last 10 years I worked, [background conversation] [background noises] I used to go out [tapping] and have some a this at ma lunch hour. [laughter] [tapping] [background conversation] [background noises] Doug Rademacher: Yes? [laughter] Female: [background conversation] You did, really? [laughter] Doug Rademacher: That would, uh. [23:38] Now, did you go [background conversation] visit one a the local establishments? [background conversation] Are you saying on your lunch or after hours or? [background conversation] [background noises] Lillian Matter: Well, not myself [tapping] [background conversation] [background noises] really. Doug Rademacher: Okay. [background conversation] Lillian Matter: I was a buyer in purchasing and [background conversation] salesmen used to come over [background conversation] and [background conversation] take the buyers out for lunch, [background conversation] and many times [tapping] we had some a that. [background conversation] [tapping] Doug Rademacher: Uh-huh. [background conversation] [background noises] [23:56] And that was just a good [background conversation] [background noises] [laughter] business practice, [laughter] wasn't it? [laughter] [background conversation] Lillian Matter: [laughter] Exactly, [background conversation] exactly. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: Seemed to solve, [background conversation] [laughter] been able to [background conversation] get to the point a the [background conversation] matter... Lillian Matter: [background conversation] Yeah. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: ...little more often? [background conversation] [laughter] Lillian Matter: Yeah, they could [background conversation] sell me more that way, I guess. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: [background conversation] [24:07] And did you go to the local establishments [background conversation] though or did? Lillian Matter: [background conversation] Oh yes. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [background conversation] Back then I guess [inaudible 24:11]. Lillian Matter: Yeah, I only had lunch [inaudible 24:13]... Doug Rademacher: Mm-hm. [background conversation] Lillian Matter: And uh, [clanking] [background conversation] [background noises] [inaudible 24:16] would eat lunch too, ya know? Doug Rademacher: Right, right. [background conversation] [background noises] [24:19] So it didn't ever [background noises] [background conversation] carry over afterward? [background conversation] Lillian Matter: [background conversation] Well usually my boss and I go [inaudible 24:24] [clanking] [background movement] [background conversation] [background noises] and, uh, [inaudible 24:29] time to time, because I didn't think it was proper for me to go until. [background conversation] [background noises] Doug Rademacher: Right. [background conversation] [background noises] Lillian Matter: [background conversation] [background noises] I was very proper then, because. [background conversation] [background noises] [laughter] Doug Rademacher: Very proper then. [laughter] [background conversation] Lillian Matter: Wasn't. [laughter] [background conversation] [background noises] Doug Rademacher: Okay. [laughter] Female: [background conversation] What'd she say? [laughter] [background conversation] [background noises] Doug Rademacher: Could you, uh. [background conversation] [background noises] Lillian Matter: I hope that wasn't recorded. [laughter] [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [background conversation] [24:43] Which, [background movement] [background conversation] which year did ya hire in? [background conversation] [background noises] Lillian Matter: 1952. [background conversation] [background noises] Doug Rademacher: And what, uh, [background noises] [inaudible 24:47]. Lillian Matter: Retired in '84. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [24:49] What training did [background conversation], did you come in as [background conversation] that you were able to go into Purchasing? Lillian Matter: Well I worked [background conversation] 7 years – oh, into Purchasing? [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [24:56] [background conversation] What, [background conversation] what led you into that field? Lillian Matter: Well, [I went there 24:58] [background conversation] in '74. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: Okay. Lillian Matter: And, uh, [background conversation] I worked prior to [background conversation] [background noises] [inaudible 25:03] as a clerk in purchasing, [background conversation] [background noises] and then, [background conversation] um, [background conversation] my boss retired and they upgraded me into [background conversation] a buyer, [background conversation] [background noises] which was the first time that's [background conversation] ever happened there. [background conversation] [background noises] [Inaudible 25:17] [background conversation] General Motors [background conversation] [background noises] was only 3 other [background conversation] women [background noises] [background conversation] buyers [background conversation] [background noises] and they were [background conversation] [background noises] in Detroit, Grand Rapids, and [background conversation] [background noises] different places. [background noises] [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: And you were the first. [background conversation] [background noises] Lillian Matter: But I was the first [background conversation] one, yeah. [background conversation] [background noises] Doug Rademacher: The first woman [background noises] purchaser/buyer for [background conversation] [background noises] [clanking] General. [clanking] Lillian Matter: Yeah. Doug Rademacher: [background conversation] [background noises] Was it Fisher Body? [background conversation] [background noises] Okay. [background conversation] [background noises] Lillian Matter: [background conversation] [background noises] That's why they had. [background conversation] [background noises] Doug Rademacher: [25:35] [background conversation] And you were treated equal by the men [background conversation] or were the, [background conversation] move into that position, [background noises] [background conversation] that was? Lillian Matter: [background conversation] Oh they had to. They needed [background conversation] fibers. [background conversation] They needed material. [background conversation] They treated me very well. [background conversation] [laughter] [background noises] [clanking] Doug Rademacher: [background noises] [background conversation] [25:47] But were [background noises] [clanking] [background conversation] any of them [clanking] [background conversation] hoping to get that [background conversation] promotion [background conversation] [background noises] rather than? Lillian Matter: Only one [background conversation] that I know of, [background noises] [background conversation] [clanking] and, uh, then they upgraded [background conversation] [background noises] me, I, I was allowed [papers rustling] [background conversation] [background noises] to park [papers rustling] in the, uh, supervisor's [papers rustling] parking. [papers rustling] [background conversation] [background noises] That only happened [2 days 26:02] [papers rustling] [background conversation] [background noises] and [papers rustling] [background noises] [somewhat 26:03] I don't [papers rustling] know [papers rustling] how he did it [papers rustling] but [papers rustling] he arranged it [papers rustling] so [papers rustling] that [papers rustling] I [papers rustling] couldn't [papers rustling] park there [papers rustling] anymore [papers rustling] [laughter] [background conversation] [background noises] [papers rustling] [laughter] because he wanted the job, I'm sure. [papers rustling] He had no other reason. [papers rustling] Doug Rademacher: Okay. [background conversation] [Inaudible 26:20]. Lillian Matter: But it was alright. [tapping] [background conversation] So I parked out in [background conversation] front. Female: She wants to be next. [background conversation] Lillian Matter: [background conversation] Okay. [background conversation] [laughter] Doug Rademacher: Well you're, you're just getting, [background conversation] [laughter] you're playing around. Lillian Matter: She used to be that too, come on, [inaudible 26:32]. Bernia Parr: Oh, oh. Doug Rademacher: [26:33] Please share your name. Bernia Parr: Oh. My name is... Doug Rademacher: [26:34] Tell us when ya hired in. Bernia Parr: ...my name is Bernie Parr, and I worked there for a lotta years. [tapping] [laughter] [background conversation] There was never any [background noises] discrimination that I could see [background conversation] between the men and the women. [background conversation] Ho ho. [background conversation] [laughter] Doug Rademacher: Ho ho, huh? [laughter] Female: [background conversation] [Inaudible 26:48]. [background conversation] Female: [background conversation] [Inaudible 26:48]. [background conversation] Female: [background conversation] When did you hire in? Lillian Matter: Oh, I hired in, [background conversation] um, [background conversation] in Grand Rapids. [background conversation] When did I? In [background conversation] 1943 [background conversation] and then [background conversation] my husband came home from the [background conversation] Service and we moved [background conversation] to Lansing, and I [background conversation] retired permanently in 1977. [background conversation] That's it. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: That is it? Lillian Matter: That's it. Doug Rademacher: [27:15] What about that "ho ho"? [laughter] I thought there was something there that. Lillian Matter: About what? Doug Rademacher: You said something about there was no [background conversation] discrimination between men and women, and you said "ho ho." [laughter] Now, I think there's. Lillian Matter: No, I thought that we were treated very well. [background conversation] [background noises] I was treated very, very well. [background conversation] And everybody else I know, [background conversation] [background noises] not everybody, [background conversation] but most everybody. [background conversation] Female: [Inaudible 27:39]. Doug Rademacher: [27:40] Women couldn't smoke but the men could? Female: Men could, [background conversation] [throat clearing] [background conversation] but the women couldn't [background conversation] [inaudible 27:42]. Doug Rademacher: Did that go on for? Female: Not that, and I, and I didn't smoke [background noises] [background conversation] at that time at all, [background conversation] [background noises] yeah, and that, it bothered – it didn't bother me [background conversation] that much but I just thought [background conversation] it was [background conversation] quite [background conversation] discriminatory. [background conversation] You know, [background conversation] why should they [background conversation] be allowed to smoke if the women [background conversation] couldn't? They were doin' their job too. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [27:59] Did, were you allowed breaks [background conversation] to go smoke? [background conversation] Female: [background conversation] [background noises] Women took'm. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: Yeah. [background conversation] They took'm. [background conversation] [laughter] [background conversation] Female: [background conversation] That's what they took [inaudible 28:04]. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [28:05] Now, was, [background conversation] did you just go [background conversation] to the women's room to do it? Yeah, like smokin' in the, in the [background conversation] room, in the, [background conversation] that was the only way [background conversation] to get the time? [background conversation] Female: [background conversation] Wasn't very long and found out [background conversation] the women over at Oldsmobile [background conversation] were allowed a [background conversation] [background noises] smoking [background noises] [background conversation] area, so. Female: Wow. [coughing] [background conversation] [background noises] Doug Rademacher: [background conversation] [28:21] And did that come to a heated... Female: No. [background conversation] [background noises] Doug Rademacher: ...point or did it just... Female: No, they just... Doug Rademacher: ...start? Female: ...announced [background noises] [background conversation] that women would be [background conversation] [background noises] allowed to smoke [background conversation] [background noises] at their desk [background conversation] [background noises] if they preferred. [background conversation] [background noises] Doug Rademacher: [28:30] And do you remember [background noises] [background conversation] what year that was by chance [background conversation] [background noises] or [background conversation] [background noises] was it [background conversation] [background noises] into the '50s or [background conversation] the '60s [background conversation] or? [background conversation] When were women allowed to smoke? Lillian Matter: [background conversation] It was the late '70s. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [background conversation] The l-. Female: [background conversation] Musta been '70s. [background conversation] Female: [background conversation] [Inaudible 28:41]. [background conversation] Female: [background conversation] [Inaudible 28:41]. [background conversation] Female: [background conversation] [Inaudible 28:41]. [background conversation] Female: [background conversation] [Inaudible 28:41]. [background conversation] Lillian Matter: [background conversation] '70s. Well, mid-'70s. Doug Rademacher: [28:53] [background conversation] Well I'm kinda curious, [background conversation] back to you were saying that there was no [background conversation] discrimination with that little chuckle, [background conversation] can you, [background conversation] [laughter] was there, [laughter] [background conversation] what was your position? [background conversation] What'd you do? [background conversation] Lillian Matter: Well, I was just, uh, a peon. [background conversation] [laughter] Doug Rademacher: Yeah? [laughter] [29:07] Have you [background conversation] advanced now that you've? [background conversation] [laughter] Lillian Matter: [background conversation] And what? [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: Have you advanced? No, I'm [background conversation] serious. [laughter] [29:13] What, what department did you work in? [laughter] What'd you do? [background conversation] Lillian Matter: Well, now, let me see. [background conversation] I worked in, um, [background conversation] ac-, uh, [background conversation] general accounting. [tapping] Not general, but [background noises] [background conversation] a-, cost accounting, [background conversation] and then I went – what was the name a that department? [background conversation] [background noises] [background conversation] Female: [Inaudible 29:29]. Lillian Matter: Huh? Female: [Inaudible 29:30]. Lillian Matter: What was the name a the? [background conversation] [background noises] [background noises] Female: [Inaudible 29:31] department, wasn't it? Lillian Matter: No. It was a whole [background conversation] thing [background conversation] first. [background conversation] [background noises] Female: Not quality standards? Lillian Matter: I was the only girl, [background conversation] 19 men, and I liked the odds. Doug Rademacher: You liked the odds, huh? [laughter] [background conversation] Well they must've treated you very well then, actually. [laughter] Lillian Matter: They really did. I h-, I would have [background noises] no complaints whatsoever. Doug Rademacher: [29:52] So they weren't ever [background noises] rude to you? [background conversation] Lillian Matter: No. Female: Not, not, not. [background noises] [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: Not to your face anyway. [laughter] Lillian Matter: [background conversation] Right. Yup. [laughter] [background conversation] How come you know them so well? Doug Rademacher: Uh, just [laughter] I think I just know that, [background conversation] that, uh, [background noises] thing about men. [laughter] [background conversation] They usually don't know how to talk... Lillian Matter: No. Doug Rademacher: ...to a person until they're gone. [background conversation] Is that, isn't that true? [laughter] [30:12] So was there a, were you expected to coffee or anything [background conversation] [background noises] or were you, did you have [background noises] a position, ya know, [background conversation] where [background conversation] ya used to [tapping] see it on TV where the, a [background conversation] secretary had to do the [background conversation] coffee for the boss or anything. Did that [background conversation] ever happen? [background conversation] Lillian Matter: Never. Doug Rademacher: [background conversation] Wasn't gonna happen. [background noises] [background conversation] Female: Yeah, that's [inaudible 30:29]. [coughing] [background conversation] Lillian Matter: [background conversation] I'd get coffee [background conversation] for myself. Doug Rademacher: Good. Lillian Matter: [coughing] [background conversation] If they were standing. [background conversation] We had the coffee room, [background conversation] and boy, [background conversation] that was a [background conversation] nice place. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [30:36] Do you remember... Female: Labor Relations. Doug Rademacher: ...a day or [background conversation] anything in your mind [background conversation] that was a [background conversation] great day at, at work? Female: [background conversation] See, see they set the standards on the job. [background conversation] Lillian Matter: [background conversation] No, that we used to overstay our time. [background conversation] [laughter] Doug Rademacher: [30:45] You mean work past getting paid [background conversation] or what'd you [background conversation] mean by that? [background conversation] Lillian Matter: Pardon? Doug Rademacher: What do you mean by overstaying your time? [background conversation] Did you work [background conversation] later than you were getting paid [background conversation] or what do you mean by that? [background conversation] Lillian Matter: Well, [background conversation] we were supposed to have, [background noises] [background conversation] how many, about 10 minutes, I think, or 15. [background noises] [background conversation] Well a guy couldn't make it in that. [background conversation] So, [background conversation] I just decided to [background conversation] stay a little long. [background conversation] Like 20 minutes, [background conversation] 25. Doug Rademacher: Okay. [background conversation] Lillian Matter: No, they're very good to us. I'm thankful [background conversation] for the job I had. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [31:13] Do you have any feelings about the [background conversation] Fisher Body Plant closing? [background conversation] Lillian Matter: [background conversation] What? [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [background conversation] The Fisher Body Plant, [background conversation] now that it's closed [background conversation] and maybe being torn down, what does that [clanking] [background conversation] [background noises] have any feelings about that? Lillian Matter: I feel sad [background conversation] about that. [background conversation] I do. [background noises] [background conversation] Because it was a good place to work and [background conversation] I liked it. Female: Everybody was nice. Lillian Matter: Yeah, well, [background noises] [background conversation] I hate to see it go. [background noises] [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [31:34] Do you think it was a, [background conversation] [background noises] in your mind isn't that what Lansing was [background conversation] [background noises] or is with the university and the, and the, um, state [background conversation] government, [background conversation] did you think Fisher Body had its [background conversation] own place in Lansing? [background conversation] Lillian Matter: [background conversation] Yes. [background conversation] I do. [background conversation] I don't know what to say. I don't feel like talkin' anymore. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [background conversation] [background noises] Okay. [background conversation] That's okay. Appreciate all that you've shared. [background conversation] [32:01] And who are you? Tressie Hotchkiss: I'm [clanking] [background noises] Tressie Hotchkiss. Doug Rademacher: Hi. [background conversation] Tressie Hotchkiss: And I, [background conversation] [Tom Boss 32:05] hired me in [background conversation] payroll [background conversation] in 1942. [background conversation] [tapping] And I worked there twice [background conversation] for a year when I got married and went to California, [background conversation] come back, and then, [background conversation] uh, [background conversation] I worked -- [background conversation] no, [Kurt Lewis 32:20] hired me, [background conversation] and then Tom Boss. [background conversation] And I went there because they were paying better [tapping] than anybody else. [background conversation] I worked at the bank first and they didn't pay good at all, [background conversation] so, uh, went over to Fisher Body. [background conversation] But ya had to quit when you were 6 months pregnant, so that was the end a that. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [32:41] So you worked 1 year, you left to California, [background conversation] you came back, hired again, [background conversation] and then [background conversation] are ya, how long [background noises] did ya work and then you got pregnant. Tressie Hotchkiss: Right. [background noises] [background conversation] [laughter Doug Rademacher: [32:49] How long did you work? [laughter] Tressie Hotchkiss: Altogether? [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: Well, up to that [background conversation] pregnancy. Did ya put a few [background conversation] years in before and all [background conversation] [background noises]? And, and that was it that you had to leave? Tressie Hotchkiss: Yep. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: And you were [background conversation] hired back after [background conversation] that? Tressie Hotchkiss: I didn't wanna come back. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: Decided to raise a family [inaudible 33:03]. [background conversation] [background noises] Now... Tressie Hotchkiss: [background conversation] Yeah, right. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: ...and that was w-, um, [background conversation] [clicking] [inaudible 33:06]. Tressie Hotchkiss: And I remember, [background conversation] uh, [background conversation] the office was [background conversation] pretty good until [background conversation] they got the federal order [background conversation] for the, the, uh, E-29s or whatever they made. [background conversation] Then we were really crowded. [background conversation] They just [background conversation] hired so many people [background conversation] [background noises] in there [background noises] [background conversation] that [inaudible 33:22] [background conversation] [background noises] close together. [background conversation] Course the federal government payin' our [background conversation] salaries then, so. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [background conversation] Okay. [background conversation] Tressie Hotchkiss: [background conversation] They hired a lotta people in. [background conversation] [background noises] Doug Rademacher: [background conversation] [33:35] So how many years did you work there till? [background conversation] Tressie Hotchkiss: [background conversation] [laughter] [background conversation] Not more'n 6 or 6. Doug Rademacher: [background conversation] [background noises] [33:42] And you had, uh, you went there for the money, you said it paid better. [background conversation] Did you, [background conversation] uh, stay in the accounting field [background conversation] after or did ya stay home and be? [background conversation] Tressie Hotchkiss: [background conversation] I stayed home. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [33:51] And did your husband work for General Motors? [background conversation] [background noises] Tressie Hotchkiss: [background conversation] [background noises] Yep. He did. [background noises] [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [33:58] Was he at the Fisher Body Plant? [background conversation] Tressie Hotchkiss: [background conversation] No, he was at Oldsmobile. [background conversation] [background noises] [tapping] [coughing] Doug Rademacher: Okay. [background conversation] Tressie Hotchkiss: [background conversation] But I went through, [background conversation] I went through, [background noises] [background conversation] uh, Fisher Body on May 6th [background conversation] when they closed. Doug Rademacher: Yes. [background conversation] Tressie Hotchkiss: I decided to go over there, see if I could [background conversation] get in, [background conversation] and they let me in. So I walked down [background noises] [background conversation] the halls, [background conversation] [background noises] uh, [background conversation] [background noises] where I used to work, at Payroll. [background conversation] [background noises] Kinda sad. [background conversation] [background noises] Doug Rademacher: Kinda sad. [34:23] And did it... Tressie Hotchkiss: [background conversation] [background noises] Mm. Doug Rademacher: ...have any resemblance of when it was [background conversation] when... Tressie Hotchkiss: [background conversation] [background noises] Oh... Doug Rademacher: ...you left? [background conversation] [background noises] Tressie Hotchkiss: ...not a bit. [background conversation] [background noises] No. [background conversation] Just [background conversation] didn't look as elite. Doug Rademacher: Did not look as elite? Tressie Hotchkiss: Right. [background conversation] [background noises] Doug Rademacher: [34:38] So the office had changed? The... Tressie Hotchkiss: [background conversation] Pretty much. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: ...they weren't separate, they were [background conversation] cubicles now, and. Tressie Hotchkiss: [background conversation] Yeah. [background noises] Just. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: Yeah, [background conversation] a lotta things did [background conversation] [background noises] change. Tressie Hotchkiss: Yes. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: I'm sure a that. [background conversation] [background noises] Is there anything else [background conversation] that you'd like to share? [background conversation] Tressie Hotchkiss: I enjoyed my work there, [background conversation] and [background conversation] everybody, [background conversation] made lots a friends, [background conversation] [background noises] so. [background conversation] That's all. [background conversation] [background noises] Doug Rademacher: [background conversation] [phone ringing] Hm. [background conversation] Marge Morey: [background conversation] Can I tell you... Doug Rademacher: Then, uh. [background conversation] Marge Morey: ...can I tell you [background conversation] a little story [inaudible 35:11]? Doug Rademacher: Sure, tell me a story. [35:11] And who are you? Marge Morey: And – huh? Doug Rademacher: Tell me your name. [background conversation] Marge Morey: Marge Morey. Doug Rademacher: Marge? Marge Morey: Marge Morey. No, my... Doug Rademacher: Hi, Marge. Marge Morey: ...I have a niece that, [background conversation] uh, industrial engineer, [tapping] [background conversation] [background noises] and she was really brilliant girl and all, [background conversation] [background noises] and she got a job at General Motors, [background conversation] and she worked there for quite a while. [background conversation] [background noises] And I forgot, just seems to be that General Motors [inaudible 35:31] and the men treated her [background conversation] beautifully. [background conversation] She loved her work, [background conversation] they got along fine, no problems. [background conversation] Well, when they closed the Plant, then [background conversation] she [background conversation] left and, [background conversation] [background noises] uh, Ford hired her, [background noises] [background conversation] and they, those guys were so terrible to her. [background noises] [phone ringing] They just, [phone ringing] they just gave her such [phone ringing] a rough time, she quit. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: Oh, and that's been [background conversation] this year or this last year? [background conversation] [background noises] Marge Morey: No, no, no. [background conversation] [background noises] Doug Rademacher: Oh. Marge Morey: She quit, [background conversation] [background noises] this was, [background conversation] well, ya know, few years ago. Not too – but I mean, she was a good engineer, but General Motors, they treated her [throat clearing] beautifully, [background conversation] and the men did, [laughter] and then Ford, [background conversation] they, they just gave her [background conversation] [background noises] such a rough time [background conversation] she quit. [laughter] [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [36:10] Do you remember when [background conversation] [laughter] they merged the, uh, the two plants? The, the Fisher [background conversation] Body with the Oldsmobile? Do, were y-, were any of you there then? [background conversation] [background noises] Lorraine Lietzke: I was [inaudible 36:20]. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: You were? Well, let's, [background conversation] let me move this down then [laughter] and get that story. [laughter] I think I'd like to hear somethin' about that. Let me put the. Lorraine Lietzke: [recorder clicking] Lorraine Lietzke. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [36:28] Lorraine, go ahead, tell me your name again. [background conversation] Lorraine Lietzke: Lorraine Lietzke. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: Okay. [background conversation] [background noises] I had just asked a question about, [background conversation] [background noises] uh, if any of you had been there [background noises] [background conversation] when, uh, [background conversation] the two plants kind of [background conversation] merged their [background conversation] management and stuff. [background noises] [background conversation] Can you, [background conversation] uh, tell me about that? Lorraine Lietzke: [background conversation] Yes. [background noises] [background conversation] I worked in, uh, Payroll department [background noises] and, uh, we were transferred over [background noises] to, uh. [background noises] What was it [background noises] called? [background noises] Female: [Inaudible 36:51]? Lorraine Lietzke: Human, [background noises] Human [background conversation] Resource Center, yeah. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: Okay. Lorraine Lietzke: On St. Joseph Street. [background conversation] [background noises] And I was there [background noises] [background conversation] for about [background noises] 2 years and then [background conversation] I retired [background noises] from there. [background conversation] [background noises] It was, uh [background conversation], quite a, [background conversation] upheaval, really. [background noises] [background conversation] [laughter] [background noises] Doug Rademacher: [37:09] Now, were you, [background conversation] [background noises] you've been in [background noises] both [background noises] facilities then. [background noises] You worked [background noises] for... Lorraine Lietzke: [background noises] Yeah. [background noises] Doug Rademacher: ...Olds [background conversation] [background noises] Corporation and you came over [background conversation] [background noises] to Fisher? [background conversation] [background noises] Lorraine Lietzke: [background noises] No. [background conversation] I worked at [background conversation] [background noises] Fisher. Doug Rademacher: Oh, you always worked at Fisher. Lorraine Lietzke: Mm-hm. [background noises] [background conversation] I started Fisher in March [background noises] of [background noises] [background conversation] 1950, I believe, and then I retired in, uh, [background noises] [background conversation] 1986. So. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [37:26] Can ya tell us about [background conversation] the changes [background conversation] that were goin' on? Now, what department did you work in? Lorraine Lietzke: I worked in the [background noises] Payroll department [background noises] the entire time. [background conversation] [background noises] [tapping] Doug Rademacher: [37:34] And did you see [background conversation] changes? Do you remember [background conversation] the old, did they use adding machines and stuff [background conversation] originally? Lorraine Lietzke: Well I w-, I was a comptometer operator, and that's how [background noises] we all started. [laughter] And gradually, uh, went to different machines and. [background noises] It's education. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: [background noises] [37:52] Y-, so you saw different, [background noises] [background conversation] uh, technologies introduced over the years? [background noises] [background conversation] Lorraine Lietzke: Oh yeah. [background conversation] Everything changed. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [38:00] And you were there with the computer [background conversation] boom... Lorraine Lietzke: Yep. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: ...and all that? [background conversation] [38:02] Did you get training to... Lorraine Lietzke: [background conversation] We, uh. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: ...to upgrade your [background conversation] skills for that? Lorraine Lietzke: Well, we had, uh, we ran for dummy payrolls there for quite a while. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [38:12] Explain what a dummy payroll is. [background conversation] Lorraine Lietzke: Well, ya did it the old way, and then you did it with, through IBN, [background conversation] and then you had a compare and [background conversation] get all the wrinkles out, make sure [background conversation] everything worked right. [background noises] [background conversation] But we finally m-, [background conversation] uh, got that [background conversation] resolved, [inaudible 38:25]. [background conversation] [laughter] [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [38:31] And [background conversation] [background noises] do ya have any stories you'd like to tell? [background conversation] [background noises] Lorraine Lietzke: No. Doug Rademacher: No? [laughter] [38:35] What was it like working in Payroll? [background conversation] What that, uh, [coughing] they said, [coughing] uh, [background conversation] I've heard some other ladies talk about get paid well over at Fisher? [background conversation] Lorraine Lietzke: Oh yes. Doug Rademacher: [38:43] Is that what brought you in was... Lorraine Lietzke: Yeah. Doug Rademacher: ...the money? [background conversation] Opportunity? [background conversation] Lorraine Lietzke: Yeah, it was, uh, [background conversation] [background noises] better position than what I [background conversation] had before. I just worked at Penny's as a comptometer operator before, and [background conversation] it was, uh, [background conversation] good wages and a [background conversation] good place to work. [background conversation] Good benefits. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [39:01] And was it, in your eyes, did you ever have problems bein' a, a woman or was there a lotta women in the office and that was never a problem or was there, uh, [background noises] was there male chauvinism or was there, uh, strong competition amongst women? [background noises] Tell me a little about that. [background noises] Lorraine Lietzke: I don't wanna get into that. [laughter] No. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: But ya, but ya lived it. [laughter] [background conversation] [background noises] Lorraine Lietzke: I got my 32 years in. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: And that's. Lorraine Lietzke: [background conversation] And now I'm enjoying my retirement. [tapping] [background conversation] [laughter] Doug Rademacher: [39:31] Can ya share one of your, [background noises] what was a good day at Fisher Body? [background conversation] [background noises] You came in... Lorraine Lietzke: I. [background noises] Doug Rademacher: ...ya punched in, [background noises] [background conversation] got your coffee. What, what made a [background noises] good day [background conversation] from a bad day? [background conversation] Lorraine Lietzke: I don't remember. [laughter] Female: We never had to punch in. Lorraine Lietzke: No, we didn't punch in. Doug Rademacher: You didn't have to do any a that? Female: Salary. [background conversation] [background noises] Doug Rademacher: [39:48] So there was no, you didn't have to s-, even sign in or anything? It's just... Female: No. Doug Rademacher: ...on your on or? Female: Came in and set down at your desk. Lorraine Lietzke: The boss s-, [background conversation] stood in the corner [laughter] and made sure everybody [background conversation] [background noises] was in there. Female: Yeah. Female: Only had to... Lorraine Lietzke: Yeah. Female: ...check to make sure [laughter] you were there on time. Lorraine Lietzke: Right. [laughter] [background conversation] And you didn't leave until, [laughter] until [background noises] the clock struck. [background conversation] [laughter] Doug Rademacher: Well, I've got one more young lady here. [laughter] [40:11] Why don't you introduce yourself and, and tell me about your, [background conversation] when you hired in and your first day of work? [background conversation] Where'd you hire into? Florence Jeffrey: [background conversation] [background noises] I'm Florence Jeffery and I [background noises] hired in right outta high school at [background conversation] 18 years old [background conversation] and I was hired in by [inaudible 40:23]. [recorder clicking] [background conversation] [background noises] He didn't even know what he was doin' when he's hirin' me. [laughter] [background conversation] And I went from, [background conversation] I worked in the Payroll department, [background conversation] I worked in [background conversation] Labor Relations, [background conversation] and, uh, worked for the Comptroller, worked in Cost Accounting, [background conversation] [background noises] [tapping] Cost Analysis, and then I [background conversation] [background noises] went up and worked, [background conversation] ended up workin' for the Plant Manager [background conversation] [background noises] as the secretary. [background conversation] [background noises] Doug Rademacher: The Plant Manager. [40:42] Which was [background conversation] the Plant Manager [background noises] at that time? Florence Jeffrey: [Weethorn 40:44]. [T. F. Weethorn 40:44]. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [Thomas 40:46]? Florence Jeffrey: Thomas Weethorn. [background conversation] [background noises] Doug Rademacher: [40:48] And did you like working for him? Florence Jeffrey: Oh yes, [background conversation] very much so. Course I worked for [background conversation] Mr. [Trump 40:51] when he was there, I worked for Mr. [Bidwell 40:52], [background conversation] [Harry Emerson 40:54], and, [background conversation] uh, Mr. Weethorn. [background conversation] [background noises] I liked him really well. [background conversation] [background noises] And [Don Shenawa 40:58] Came in after Weethorn retired. [background conversation] I retired after 38 years, in, uh, [background conversation] 1944. I hired in in 1944, I h-, I retired in 1982. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [41:11] So you went, [background conversation] of those, uh, [background conversation] now, you, um, [background conversation] [background noises] [tapping] worked with Mr. Shenawa also? [background conversation] [background noises] Florence Jeffrey: Yes. Doug Rademacher: Uh. Florence Jeffrey: [background conversation] He was the last c-, he was the last Plant Manager [background noises] [background conversation] I worked for. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [41:19] Did he keep you as his [background conversation] secretary when he, when he came in [background conversation] after the, Mr. Weethorn? [background conversation] Florence Jeffrey: Yes. [background conversation] For while. [background conversation] Then I guess he left General Motors himself. [background conversation] [background noises] Doug Rademacher: [41:28] What was that like moving up [background conversation] through the ranks? [background conversation] You say you started in Payroll and then moved [background conversation] your way up through? Florence Jeffrey: Cost Analysis [background conversation] right on up to Comptroller's Secretary [background conversation] to Plant Manager's. [background conversation] I enjoyed it. [background conversation] I really liked it there. [background conversation] There were always good to me. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [41:41] And what kind of education [background conversation] did you have [background conversation] to get in? Florence Jeffrey: High school. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: You went right from... Florence Jeffrey: 12th Grade. Doug Rademacher: ...high school right in [background conversation] and never had to train? [background conversation] Florence Jeffrey: [background conversation] Nope. I was out about 8, 8, 9 days [background conversation] outta high school when they [background conversation] hired me in. Doug Rademacher: [background conversation] [41:52] And where did you go to [background conversation] high school? [background conversation] Florence Jeffrey: Eaton Rapids [background conversation] High School. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: Eaton Rapids. [background conversation] [background noises] Now, you came in in the [background conversation] '40s, you said? Florence Jeffrey: I came in '44. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [41:59] And how did you hear about them hiring and that? [background conversation] Florence Jeffrey: Well, my girlfriend [background conversation] [inaudible 42:03] father took her and I both to Lansing [background conversation] and he dropped us off at different places to hi-, fi-, [background conversation] look for jobs. I [background conversation] [laughter] had the drop-off at Fisher Body and they hired me, [inaudible 42:11] [laughter] centrifugal fusing and they hired her. [background conversation] [laughter] That was just a [background conversation] [laughter] few days after we graduated [background conversation] [laughter] from high school. [background conversation] [laughter] They don't do that now. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [42:19] Did you, uh, [laughter] you stay [background conversation] in contact with her all these years? [background conversation] Florence Jeffrey: Oh yes, I still get letters [background conversation] from her. Doug Rademacher: [42:24] Did she, [background conversation] was she a [background conversation] in the line at Fisher Body with you [background conversation] [background noises] or? Florence Jeffrey: No, she always went centrifugal fusing and she got [background conversation] married and moved out. She's Las, Las Vegas now. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: Okay. [background conversation] Florence Jeffrey: I still live in Eaton Rapids. Female: Is that [Adam 42:36]? Doug Rademacher: Sounds like quite a distance, [background conversation] at that time. Florence Jeffrey: Yeah. Doug Rademacher: Eaton Rapids into, uh, [background conversation] into Fisher Body. [42:41] How'd you make that trip back and forth [background conversation] every day? [background conversation] Florence Jeffrey: It was, it was 5 of us who had rode together. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [42:47] [background conversation] Ya carpooled in? Florence Jeffrey: [background conversation] Carpooled in. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [42:48] Now, did you take turns or was there's just one vehicle... Florence Jeffrey: [Inaudible 42:50]. Doug Rademacher: ...and you all? [background conversation] [background noises] Florence Jeffrey: We just drove one day a week. [background conversation] [background noises] There was 5 of us. [background conversation] We drove one day a week. [background conversation] Female: My day was Monday. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: [42:56] Do you remember which vehicle you had back then? [background conversation] [background noises] Florence Jeffrey: [laughter] Oldmobile. Always Eighty-Eight Oldsmobile, [background conversation] till they quit makin'm. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: And. Florence Jeffrey: [background conversation] I'd still have one now if they still [laughter] kept makin'm. Doug Rademacher: I know, I would too. Florence Jeffrey: I got a Buick now. I don't like it. [background conversation] [laughter] Female: You don't? [laughter] Doug Rademacher: I've had a hard time warmin' up... Female: I'd have a hard time. Doug Rademacher: ...to the Buick myself. Florence Jeffrey: [Inaudible 43:13]. Doug Rademacher: Sure miss my Oldsmobiles. Female: [Inaudible 43:14]. Doug Rademacher: [43:17] So, so tell me about working for, [background conversation] sounds like Mr. Weethorn [background conversation] was your favorite. [background conversation] Florence Jeffrey: Oh yes, he was. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [43:22] Tell me about what it was like when he'd come in and how did he treat you as [background conversation] his secretary? Florence Jeffrey: Oh, wonderful. [background conversation] He was very good. [background conversation] He was hard workin', it's hard work, and ya had to stay there tell [background conversation] it's time to go home, [background conversation] but I still liked it. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: Did he ever do anything special [background conversation] for ya? Was there any [background conversation] lunches or something that... Florence Jeffrey: Oh yes. Doug Rademacher: ... you got [background conversation] to do? Florence Jeffrey: On my birthday and on Christmas, and [background conversation] Secretary's [background conversation] [background noises] Day he always took me out, [background conversation] gave me gifts and [background conversation] [background noises] he was very, very nice. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [43:50] So there always was a Secretary's Day? [background conversation] I wonder h-, when did that... Florence Jeffrey: Oh. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: ...practice? Florence Jeffrey: [background conversation] Ever since I've been there. [background conversation] Female: Yeah, yeah. Florence Jeffrey: [background conversation] And then when I worked for the Comptroller, he used to take me out for Secretary's Day. [background conversation] So it's been there for years. [background conversation] 'Cause I worked there 38.5 years. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: [43:50] And did you ever [background conversation] visit this [background conversation] Harry's place or? [background conversation] [background noises] [laughter] Florence Jeffrey: I knew where it was, I parked over there, but I never visited inside. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: [44:11] Never visited all those years. [background conversation] I know it's been there 82 years. Florence Jeffrey: Think my son visits there now, [background conversation] but. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: [44:17] And who's your son? Does he work at [background conversation] Fisher Body? Florence Jeffrey: Yes, [Mark Jeffrey 44:18]. He works out on the [background conversation] line. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: Okay. [background conversation] [background noises] Florence Jeffrey: Laid off right now. He's been back in the new Delta Plant pretty soon. [background conversation] [background noises] Doug Rademacher: [44:27] So you're very [background conversation] grateful for that, that he has [background conversation] the opportunity? [background conversation] Florence Jeffrey: He said General Motors paid his bills very well. [background conversation] [laughter] Doug Rademacher: That's wonderful. [background conversation] [tapping] Florence Jeffrey: They were always good to me. Doug Rademacher: [background conversation] [44:37] And what's your feeling about the closing and possible tearing down... Florence Jeffrey: [background conversation] Well I felt bad... Doug Rademacher: ...of the... Florence Jeffrey: ... about it. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: ...of the building? [background conversation] [background noises] Florence Jeffrey: Just as long as they leave the [background conversation] pension alone, I don't mind payin' some a my healthcare, but I don't like the idea that they're [background conversation] cuttin' the pension down and [background conversation] [tapping] they might cut our stock too, dividends. [background conversation] [background noises] Don't like it, but I'll take it. [background conversation] [laughter] Female: Great. Doug Rademacher: Well now we've had everyone at the table [background conversation] share thems-, their names, any stories anyone's willing to do or ya just? [background conversation] Female: We were just thinkin' they used to take out, [background conversation] we had a women's club or [background conversation] girl's club [background conversation] that used to. Female: Used to [inaudible 45:11]. [background conversation] Female: [Inaudible 45:11]. I know they used to have bands and stuff, too. [background conversation] Uh. Female: Yeah. Female: Management always [background conversation] took out the [background conversation] women's or [background conversation] the girls for [background conversation] [background noises] once a year, right? Female: [Inaudible 45:21] Christmas too. Female: A Christmas party. [background conversation] Female: Dinner, big dinner. [background conversation] Female: [background conversation] Very nice dinner. [background conversation] Female: [background conversation] It was nice. [background conversation] [background noises] [background conversation] Female: [Inaudible 45:37]. [background conversation] [background noises] Female: [background conversation] Yeah. [background conversation] [background noises] Female: When I just about got out of [background conversation] [background noises] [inaudible 45:42] [background conversation] [background noises] [tapping] she had on the floor [laughter] [background conversation] back when [inaudible 45:47]. Doug Rademacher: Oh well, this'll be [background conversation] [background noises] for Michigan State University. [background conversation] I could make a, [background conversation] [background noises] I could make a disc if you guys all wanna [background conversation] [background noises] hear it some other time, [inaudible 45:57]. But I would love to have anyone, [background conversation] any of you that would like to do a, a separate interview. Female: Yeah, [Ruth West 46:06] isn't here and she worked in Salary [background conversation] [background noises] and Payroll and so she's be [background conversation] [background noises] the one, [background noises] [tapping] she isn't here today. Doug Rademacher: [background noises] [background conversation] [46:13] And what about you? [background noises] Are you willing to do, [background noises] um, [background noises] a one-on-one [background noises] and just [background noises] share some, uh, [background conversation] this is just going [background conversation] down in history as, uh. [background noises] Female: I don't know that I'd [background conversation] say everything [background conversation] that [background conversation] [inaudible 46:26]. Female: Your collar I think's in the way. Doug Rademacher: No, there's, there's stories that you [background noises] don't remember. [background conversation] If you're, if you're willing to do a one-on-one? [background conversation] Anybody interested in that? [background conversation] [laughter] Not am I getting [background conversation] any takers right at the moment. [background conversation] [background noises] [laughter] Well, [background conversation] it's been a wonderful opportunity. [background conversation] I appreciate ya all [background conversation] takin' the time and, [background conversation] and, uh, [background conversation] sharing your lunch with me. Female: Sure. Doug Rademacher: And I. [background conversation] Female: Ya know, all the people that aren't here, [background conversation] maybe wanna try again. Doug Rademacher: Well I'll check again. I, I heard you're going to... Female: Did you want... Doug Rademacher: ...Finley's next time. Female: Right. [papers rustling] Female: ...did want that list a names? Doug Rademacher: Yeah, I'll take all that [background conversation] with me. [background conversation] Female: [background conversation] If anybody has any ideas, maybe [background conversation] they could... Doug Rademacher: But, uh, [inaudible 46:57]. Female: ...write'm down and we could [background conversation] [papers rustling] [background conversation] [background noises] [inaudible 46:59] next time. Doug Rademacher: Yes, Shirley had a doctor's appointment. [background conversation] Well, again, I thank you all, [background conversation] and, [background conversation] uh... Female: Well thank you. Doug Rademacher: ...appreciate [background conversation] anything you'd, you're willing [background conversation] [background noises] and if ya know anyone that would be interested in an interview, [background conversation] you're welcome to pass those names [background conversation] onto us how, uh, over at Local 602, [background conversation] call the Union Hall, and they will get that to Doug Rademacher, [background conversation] and I hope that, [background conversation] uh, somebody'll... Female: Is that... Doug Rademacher: ...cons-. Female: ...is that your name? Doug Rademacher: Yes. Female: Doug Rad-. Doug Rademacher: Yes, I am. Female: And what's [inaudible 47:21]. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: No, we had the [inaudible 47:24]. [background conversation] Female: What's the one that used to work [inaudible 47:29]? Doug Rademacher: [Inaudible 47:30] [background conversation] [background noises] [chair squeaking] was [Richard 47:30] and [Toby 47:30]. We were. Female: Toby. Doug Rademacher: Toby, which was [Robert 47:33], really. Female: Yeah. Doug Rademacher: Yeah. [Hollycross 47:34]. Female: [Dan Hollycross 47:35]. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: Sure. Female: [Inaudible 47:38]. Female: Dan used to work in the church, didn't he? Doug Rademacher: No, my father [background conversation] had the liquor store. Female: [Inaudible 47:43]. Doug Rademacher: The liquor store, over on Saginaw. Female: [Inaudible 47:46] sounds, [background conversation] sounds familiar. Mr. Rademacher. [background conversation] Female: [Inaudible 47:46]. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: There's a lotta Rademachers. 13 of'm at the Fisher Plant alone, so. [background conversation] Female: So no wonder. [background conversation] Doug Rademacher: Well, thanks again. [background conversation] /rt