Diane Archer discusses her career as a skilled trades woman and maintenance supervisor at the Fisher Body plant in Lansing, MI Cheryl McQuaid: This is Cheryl McQuaid. I'm with the Lansing Fisher Body historical team. Uh, we're preparing to interview Diane Archer. It is November 10, 2005, approximately 10 a.m. We're in the Labor Relations Conference Room at Fisher Body. First of all, we're going to state everybody’s names so that we have that for the record. Doreen Howard: Doreen Howard. Diane Archer: Diane... Linda Jackson: Linda Jackson. Diane Archer: Diane Archer. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: Doug Rademacher. Marilyn Coulter: Marilyn Coulter. John Fedewa: John Fedewa. Cheryl McQuaid: [00:36] And Diane, could you state your name, spell your last name for us? Diane Archer: Diane Archer. A-R-C-H-E-R. Cheryl McQuaid: [00:43] And what's your address, Diane? Diane Archer: 456 South Rosemary, Lansing, Michigan 48917 Cheryl McQuaid: [00:49] And are you married? Do you have children? Diane Archer: I'm divorced. I have 2 children, a 25-year-old daughter and a 26-year old son. Cheryl McQuaid: [00:57] And have you ever done any military service? Diane Archer: No ma’am. Cheryl McQuaid: [01:02] Um, could you give us a little bit about, about your educational background? Diane Archer: I graduated from high school in Flint Burton from Atherton High School in 1976, and I attended Mont College in Flint until [throat clearing] for 4 years, part time. Cheryl McQuaid: [01:23] And what is your hire-in date at Fisher Body and why did you come here? Diane Archer: I hired into Fisher Body in August of 1983 as I was laid off from Chevrolet. [throat clearing] Cheryl McQuaid: [01:38] Okay, so was that like a, like a GM gypsy? Did they move you here or was that a whole new hire-in? [laughter] Doug Rademacher: Doug Rademacher. [01:55] Diane, how, how... Diane Archer: I guess [inaudible 01:55]... Doug Rademacher: [01:57] ...how did you find out about Fisher Body hiring in? Did you put in for it or did you, did they send you here [inaudible 2:00]? Diane Archer: I was laid off from Chevrolet and I went back to get my toolbox 3 days later and it had to be cleared through, um, personnel and when I went in to Personnel, Bob McMonigal from Lansing was there to hire pipefitters and he happened to be in the office I walked into when he said Lansing was looking for pipefitters so, um, I was told to report to work the next day in Lansing. Doreen Howard: Oh, wow. Diane Archer: So it was coincidental, but... Linda Johnson: Linda Johnson. [02:38] What, did that – were you relieved? Were you happy? Were you saying, "Oh I gotta move to Lansing," or, I mean, how did you feel about having to switch places of employment? Diane Archer: I was cite, excited that I had a job because I had been laid off once previously when the sub fund went dry, so I had no money from before and now that I was back to work at Chevrolet when they laid me off the second time, I was a nervous wreck, but when I found out from McMonigal Lansing was hired, I was excited. I was scared because I, I never had been in any other GM facility before, you know, so I was scared a meeting all new people [throat clearing] and that, but I was glad I had a job. Doreen Howard: Doreen Howard. Linda Johnson: You talked about the Chevrolet plant. [03:25] When did you first hire-in to Chevrolet? Diane Archer: I hired in to Chevrolet May 12th of 1977. Linda Johnson: [03:33] And that's the first plant and facility that you worked at for General Motors? Diane Archer: Yeah, for General Motors, that was the first plant. I had completed a pre-apprenticeship program through Mont Community College, so I made application, and I, and I got hired on the production line first. Linda Johnson: [03:51] And then you said you were laid off from there? Diane Archer: Wha… Linda Johnson: And that is when you came here, but you talked about another t… Diane Archer: I got laid off… Linda Johnson: …timeframe. Diane Archer: …back around 1981. Linda Johnson: Okay. Diane Archer: 1981. Linda Johnson: From the Chevrolet and then… Diane Archer: From Chevrolet. Linda Johnson: …you were recalled back to that facility. Diane Archer: I was laid off for approximately 6 months and then I was called back to Chevrolet Manufacturing again. Linda Johnson: Okay. Doreen Howard: [04:22] And at Chevy Manufacturing, you hired in hourly on the line and then went into this trade? Linda Johnson: Yeah. Diane Archer: Yes, into the pipefitter apprenticeship. Marilyn Coulter: Marilyn Coulter. [04:36] And now you said that you were the first female pipefitter there? Diane Archer: At Chevrolet Manufacturing. Marilyn Coulter: [04:42] What was that like to be the first female? What, what did you go through being the first female pipefitter? Diane Archer: Um, that, it was difficult. I had 6 brothers so I was used to being picked on as a girl, but, um, we did not have sexual, um, laws against sexual discrimination or harassment back then so, um, I’ll be honest, it was very difficult. I mean the first day the supervisor took me to 2 other pipefitters as an apprentice and said, “You’ll be working with these 2 guys, grin and bear it”. [05:18] So, yeah, it was difficult back in the 70s being a female. I was reminded that it was, you know, nontraditional work almost daily for women, but, um, I did carry my share of the load, you know? I was raised with 6 brothers. My father forgot there was that line there, you know, when he raised us so, I mean, I tolerated and women can do it and be successful, but you have to prove yourself. You are constantly proving yourself. Even when I came to Lansing, I came down as a journeyman pipefitter and you had to prove yourself again to the male, to the male pipefitters. I applied to go on supervision and the first thing they told me in Personnel here was, “Well, first you’ve got to get a journeyman’s card to be a maintenance supervisor and we don’t have female journeymen in Lansing in the pipefitters”, and then I had to explain I came down as a journeyman pipefitter so I’m like, yeah, it was a struggle. Marilyn Coulter: [06:27] When did you notice the, um, [throat clearing] biggest change for women? Diane Archer: I think that really started changing for women around the 90s, maybe as late as 95. It has been very recent as far as I’m concerned for women. Doreen Howard: Doreen Howard. [06:48] Were you the first woman here in our facility as a pipefitter? Diane Archer: Um, the first journeyman. We had 2 female apprentices when I came down here. They were in their 3rd and 4th periods, so that’s why in the office Personnel they didn’t know they had female journeyman pipefitters. There was 2 of us down here, another girl, Cathy, who also came from Flint the same week I came down. She has since returned to Flint. She was here a couple of months and went back. Doreen Howard: [07:22] And journeyman means that you’ve already gone through all of your training and you’re a full-fledged pipefitter? Diane Archer: Right. Doreen Howard: [07:27] Is that what that means? Diane Archer: You’ve gone through the apprenticeship, yep. Doreen Howard: Okay. [07:30] So you, there was you and another woman that were already journeymen and then there was 2 that were in training, is that correct? Diane Archer: Yeah, there was 2 here going through their apprenticeship. Doreen Howard: Okay. Diane Archer: And then 2 of us came down, Cather and myself. She hired on 2nd at Chevrolet. She was behind me in the apprenticeship program, but she actually came down here the week before I did because she had found out – it wasn’t like they took us in pecking order, you know. [laughter] Yes. Doug Rademacher: [08:02] Diane, would you tell us about your first day coming into Lansing Fisher Body and also did the apprentices, the female apprentices, did they appreciate you or were you a threat to their advancement? How was that perceived? Could you share your first day and a little bit about that? Diane Archer: I think the females were very excited, you know, because power does come in numbers. So, the larger your group gets the easier it is. It lessens the power to prove and so, yeah, they were happy. I mean, they were the first 2 to introduce their selves to me, “Hi, I’m [inaudible 08:42], I’m Louann.” They were odd that Chevrolet had put on apprentices so many years prior to Fisher Body putting on the apprentices, but they did have some EITs in Small Tools when I came here and back then – and Marlene and the same, they came down. All the women come over to meet you first and, um, the men some, some accepted you were here and that was not – toward the men I didn’t feel any animosity gender related when I first came here. Um, they were, we were outsiders. We had come from a different facility so we were – and you look at both sides. I mean, I looked at both sides. Most of them wanted their children employed here and when outsiders are transferred here from other facilities it knocks out their chances to get their family or friends employed. So, um, that wasn’t anything gender that I felt from the men when I come down here. It was more I was taking a job that they wanted someone else to have. Doug Rademacher: Diane, you said EIT. [09:56] What is EIT? Diane Archer: An EIT is an Employee in Training. That takes 8 years versus 4 years through an apprenticeship. Marilyn Coulter: Marilyn Coulter. [10:09] Diane, because you came from 2 different cultures not only from cities and plants, what was the biggest difference that you noticed between Lansing plant and the Flint plant as far as people? Diane Archer: The biggest culture as far as people and, and it took me a while because myself I was abusive in that area. Working at Chevrolet, you were right down in the hole, right downtown. Okay, and a very diversified group and everyone drove into the city to work. So, the expression up there is, “He is acting like a farmer”. When I came to Lansing I didn’t, didn’t realize most everyone working here was from a farm community and so the expression came with me, you know, when someone was doing something different I would say, “Oh, he is acting like a farmer” to find out that was their other business, farming. [laughter] Diane Archer: So, it’s like I brought on a couple problems myself because of the expression; boy, they’re a farmer” or “They come in off the haystack, the hay wagon”, you know, in Lansing because it’s, it’s spread out, you know, it’s not in the city or downtown. It’s a difference between Hicksville and Downtown. [laughter] But, I quite saying, “He’s acting like a farmer”. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: Because you knew he was. Diane Archer: The first one was Pauley, you know Pauley Ureg. He’s a great, wonderful guy. I said, “Man, he acts like a farmer” and he is. [laughter] Diane Archer: He like farms 3000 acres. Yeah, that was the hardest cultural shock for me because I never knew a farm. My daughter was 9 years old before she’d ever seen a chicken, you know, so it was like – it’s different and… Marilyn Coulter: [12:01] Where the facilities run primarily the same being both of them General Motors [inaudible 12:05] Diane Archer: Um, yes. At that time, back in the early 80s, you know, hourly didn’t go into the office and management stayed in the office. Must’ve had a reason to come out of the office and it was that way I’d seen through my eyes at both Chevrolet and down here. Marilyn Coulter: [12:23] Was that the same for 659 and 602 UAWs also? Diane Archer: Um, as far as I could tell. I didn’t really see any, any difference in the Union um representation up there versus down here, you know, that was very similar. That I was pro-Union up there and went management down here, but that was not because of the difference in the locals. Um, that was because – which the Union has changed today, when I came down here I already had 7½ years with the corporation and when I hired into Lansing I had to start over again as Day 1 for picking shift, vacations, you know, and the company assigned me to work down here. I didn’t qualify for unemployment if I didn’t come, so I didn’t have a choice but to report. Then they made me sign a document that I would stay at least 1 year without returning, so I’m forced to be here and then they had hired 2 pipefitters off the street the day before my arrival and they get to pick a shift and an area before I do, see, and I was upset with that but – and so I did go management because they count all of your GM seniority and, therefore, I could raise my children being a single parent. They were 2 and 3 when I came down here. I could work 3rd shift and day shift and then raise them all afternoon. I was home with them when they come home from school and I was there when I put them to bed at night by working Midnights, which I could not do had I stayed on the floor as a pipefitter. So, therefore, I went into management to accommodate my life, my personal life, and now it’s changed with, you know, with the Union where they take their seniority of the 85 within a few years that will be corporate, but it does, it really hurts you when you think, “Wait, I have 7½ years with this company and that guy as a day and he gets to pick a shift over me”, when it wasn’t Diane Archer saying, “Hey, I want to go live in Lansing. I want to move 75 miles away from everybody I know and now I want to work a shift where I can never see my children because this guy has 1 day on me?” So, but it’s – I, I do like that the Union has that now for other hourly because I don’t know if I’d have went on management had I been able to stay on days or 3rd and raise my children. Doreen Howard: [15:04] What, what was the timeframe, Doreen Howard, what was the timeframe for the transition from the hourly to the management? How long were you here before you went into management? Diane Archer: I came down here August of 83, applied for management in December and started a pre-supervisory trainer in January and went on as a permanent supervisor in May. So, it was about 10 months. Doreen Howard: [15:36] Can you tell us a little bit about what it is like to be a supervisor for skilled trades? Diane Archer: It is wonderful. Doreen Howard: [15:43] Is it? Diane Archer: It is the best job in the world. Yeah. I have great benefits. I have a great crew. Um, I like my job. Doreen Howard: [15:54] So what department-what crew-what department does your crew work out of? Diane Archer: Well, with Delta I will be in GA, General Assembly, but I have spent up until May of this year I spent 17 years in the Body Shop with Maintenance, so it is different for me right now than the last 17 years. Doreen Howard: [16:20] And what shift did you spend most of that time on? Diane Archer: I spent 16 of the 17 years on 3rd shift. Doreen Howard: [16:30] Oh really? Marilyn Coulter: Marilyn Coulter. [16:31] Being, um, over maintenance and the body shop with all the automation there, that is down there, did that make it – I am sure it was exciting what was that like because there are so many machines and things down there, you had to work on those, is that what your crew did? Diane Archer: Yeah, my crew maintained and PMd, so you work on uptime and you work on the problems. If the machinery breaks down, you go out and get it running again, um, and you maintain the equipment through PM to make sure it doesn’t break down. The goal is no breakdowns. Marilyn Coulter: [17:06] And PM is? Diane Archer: Preventative Maintenance, my apologies. Like on your car, you know, at home. You change the oil, check the air pressure on your tires that – well, we do this to machineries; checking the oil on the contaminants, looking at the gears, listening for the different sounds, making sure everything is up to level, um, doing predictive where we do vibration analysis, and the new thing is infrared where they can actually shoot the equipment and see what is heating up. So, yeah, when that helps. Marilyn Coulter: [17:44] When you first came here, how many robots were in the body shop at that time compared to how many are there as of in May? Diane Archer: We had robots at Chevrolet back in the 70s; however, when I came to Lansing I don’t think they had any robots. The excitement was they were getting some for the 1984 model changeover for the GM 20, GM 20, and so they started installing robots here and that’s where it really helped having some of the Flint workforce because our electricians were used to programming robots and no one down here had been working on robots, um, the biggest difference there in robots is up there we named ‘em and down here they said that’s too personal and that people will get too comfortable around them so they didn’t allow us to name them in Lansing, but we had sales; Larry, Mo, and Curly and George and Julie and you just called them like a name up there where here we give them station numbers and you said Station ATL2, you didn’t say go see Joe. [laughter] Diane Archer: But, um, yeah up there we had probably 50 robots at Chevrolet and we come down here to 0 and when we closed we had 783 robots. Doug Rademacher: Did a lot names [inaudible 19:11] Diane Archer: …Delta will be more, yeah, but it is like people on the line, pretty soon you know all their names. Doreen Howard: Doreen Howard. [19:21] So, how did that change your job and your crew’s jobs going very few to that many robots towards the end? Diane Archer: Well, they brought them in slow in the beginning, you know, with robots here and there and then by the last changeover it was like – well, going to LDT now it is just loaded with robots, but the gradual change you have a right to or the ability to train the electricians and that’s the greatest thing about my job now, I mean I have to tell you this not with the interview but all this training we’re doing for Delta is wonderful, you know, because even though we are getting a different style robot and we’re getting new equipment that we’ve never seen before they’re allowing the skilled trades to go to the [inaudible 20:09], you know, to go to deep dives to see what they see wrong with the equipment or what could make it better right off the bat and training them. Marilyn Coulter: Marilyn Coulter. [throat clearing] [20:22] So, as far as the cultural change and things like that, initially years ago there wasn’t much employee involvement in those types of decisions? Diane Archer: There was no employee involvement, I mean none. In fact, when I came here as a pipefitter in ’83 at Chevrolet pipefitters did not rebuild cylinders and when I came here the 2nd day I had a cylinder break so I went to take it to Machine Repair and Lansing pipefitters rebuild cylinders. So, when I told the boss I don’t know I never had to rebuild a cylinder before he told me that was part of my job to learn how to do it and to find someone to show me. I mean that point blank, “That’s your job. Figure out how to do it or find somebody to show you” and then he went back in the office, so I did that and I got with another pipefitter who showed me how to do it, but now the training is right there. It is right there. All of it you can handle. Marilyn Coulter: [21:24] But, and for the people who [inaudible 21:25] can you explain deep dive a little bit, the term ‘deep dive’? Diane Archer: [throat clearing] A deep dive is a chance before the equipment is set into location. We actually go out to the vendor and you look at the equipment, you make sure that all the gauges are, that maintenance wise, maintenance wise you can maintain that equipment where previously they could put the gauge wherever they wanted, just have it on the equipment. Now, we go and look at every little detail we can. We are staying constant as far as if you are using MAC valves, put MAC valves on everything. If you are using a certain quarter turn, it’s a quarter turn the same brand and at a deep dive if you notice that they’re using something unique or odd that’s your chance to tell’em. Before we buy the equipment, you know, that’s not up to our code that’s not what we’re using here and they change it and they’ll have a punch list. The last one I’d seen from 1 deep dive had 59 problems that our hourly guys pointed out, 59 problems that they will change before it is bought off, before General Motors accepts it because the problem is not that we changed our mind, we prefer different, they were written in the specs, you know, that they would meet our codes and they’re not. The gauges are not facing out or… Marilyn Coulter: [22:54] So, that also helps you not only in being able to maintain that equipment, but it also helps with the safety of yourself and your employees, yes? Diane Archer: Absolutely. Absolutely. And safety, we have really progressed in safety. I gotta tell you that. It is unbelievable. Doug Rademacher: [23:16] Diane, will you tell us about supervisor techniques and also talk about changeovers and what it’s like to be a trades supervisor during a changeover? Diane Archer: The major changeovers or … Doug Rademacher: Well, the 2 weeks or something where you have the mandatory shutdown time where you load things in a timeframe. Diane Archer: Yeah, during it, as a maintenance supervisor, on the past 2-week changeovers we have grouped together mind you with very little input from the hourly and decided what work had to be done. We will ask our crew, but they didn’t sit in those meetings, and put together a work list, order all of the materials we needed because we knew we just had the 2 weeks to change anything we wanted or add it in. Um, on the bigger changeovers they’re much more difficult. Like this move to Delta. It’s a very difficult move installing what we’re-like the part we’re doing, which I was out on last week installing water test booths, you know, it has the prints and we had a plan; however, when it gets into location we found out that the wiring wasn’t, they didn’t do it to code so now we’ve gotta change the conduit from 2 to 4, but it hasn’t been installed and we try to do that in advance for every changeover I’ve ever been involved in and have the materials here, a plan, a job plan, um, and it’s exciting. It really is. It’s like remodeling a room in your house, um, that’s why I love maintenance. So, um, that’s changeover. We look forward to it as maintenance people. It’s a great opportunity. Linda Johnson: [25:15] Diane, you seem and have since this interview started really excited about what you do and as a young woman, what made you choose while you were in college that you wanted to be in the skilled trades arena? Diane Archer: Um, General Motors is the best employer in the world. I’ll tell anybody that. We have wonderful benefits, salaried and hourly alike. We have great job security, salaried and hourly alike. So, I wanted to hire into General Motors. My father worked there. My grandfather worked there. I am actually 4th generation GM employee. They’re all deceased now, but it provided for me as a child, it’s provided well for my children, um, so I appreciate that. I appreciate the company. [throat clearing] And my job is exciting, you know, I decided if I ever got into GM, which I have done, that I wouldn’t stay on that like forever because I wanted to see everything I could see within GM, you know, so it’s like it’s exciting moving around. I had an opportunity back in the late 80s to go to Lourdestown for just 2 months, but I volunteered to do that just to see the difference there and that, that was exciting, you know. Linda Johnson: [26:37] When you first became a supervisor, did any of your previous supervisors help you in determining the type of supervisor you were going to be? Diane Archer: Um, yeah. I had a couple supervisors that assisted me, you know, and that I worked with and gave me counseling and advice, but when you’re hourly first you know what you don’t want in a supervisor. So, I worked really hard at being what I didn’t like in supervisors. Linda Johnson: [27:10] What were some of the things that you didn’t like in a supervisor, some of the things that you did like? Diane Archer: I didn’t like that back in the 70s management seemed to work the butt off the worker and the problem child they shied away from. So, I’ve always made it my goal to work everybody equally and to step up to the problem child. I think that’s what management needed to do. So, and some, don’t misunderstand me that’s a big battle. When you take the biggest dog in the pack and bite him, you know, it’s a big battle, but only 90% are great workers, only 10% are the problem and the 10% keeps growing if you don’t address the problem. So, as a manager, once I went on management that’s – in fact, there was a little too mean because I’ll be honest I, I was too mean on the person who didn’t want to do anything. I went out of my way to make sure I got my 8 hours work out of them too. [laughter] Linda Johnson: [28:23] Do you have a for instance story? We were smiling about that. Did you have, you know, you said you thought maybe you were too hard on them and, but do you have a specific story? Diane Archer: Mm, no. Linda Johnson: [28:37] No? Diane Archer: Not that, not that I… Doug Rademacher: [28:38] No names, but do you have an instance? Linda Johnson: Don’t want names. Doug Rademacher: [28:42] No names, but can you share an incident? Diane Archer: Well, I can share an incident. Me as a manager or me as the hourly employee? Linda Johson: Either way. Diane Archer: Okay. As an hourly person I had a partner, you know we usually worked maintenance in crews of 2 and he was allowed because of his abusive language and he was a very strong person physically built correct and, uh, every day the boss would come out and give us a job, the supervisor, and my partner would tell me “go get the job”. So, I would go do the job. One particular day I said, “I need help”. I was putting up 2” pipe. One person cannot put up full lengths of 2” pipe by their self. It’s just you couldn’t. It’s impossible. So, and it was in the overhead so I woke him up, he laid right there in the main shop on a bench and slept, and I woke him up and asked him for assistance and he told me no. So, I sit down and waited trying to apply peer pressure first and the supervisor come out of the office and asked why I wasn’t on the job and I told him I need help. So, he’d tell the hourly guy to get up and help me and he told him to go away and he went away. I was dumbfounded. That was the day I got up and walked down to Personnel and said, “I want to be a manger”. [laughter] Linda Johnson: That’s a great story. [laughter] Diane Archer: I want to be a manager, and that was the final push to put me over the edge. I mean, there was a lot of benefits to it because I could get my shift, I’d pick up my seniority again, and then I could tell this guy to go to work, and he was on medical the first 3 months I went on management. [laughter] Diane Archer: Honest to God. He went on a medical when I went on management, but he immediately knew I wasn’t going to let him sleep, you know. Doreen Howard: I have a couple of topics that you touched on. You talked about safety changes. You said there was a large increase in safety procedures within… Diane Archer: Absolutely. Doreen Howard: [31:01] Could you expound on, on that? Diane Archer: I came down here in 1983 and they issued me 1 safety lock. Almost every piece of equipment out there as 2 power sources, electric and hydraulic or hydraulic and air or electric and air. There are 2 power sources to almost everything you touch. They gave me 1 lock. As an hourly person, I could lock out half of it, which to me I actually told the supervisor to keep the lock because then you know you’re not safe. By putting on 1 lock, you never know if you’re safe or not safe, but if you didn’t lock it out I knew I wasn’t safe and I thought that was safer. Always being cautious, you know. So, you were issued 1 lock. Today, you’re issued 3 locks, okay, and if it takes more than 3 to lockdown the tool, there’s robogate had 21 locks on it, we have equipment locks right there and then you lock up their key with your personal lock, okay, and so the company’s went that far to issue, you know, 21 locks for 1 piece of equipment plus your personal locks. So, today, you’re given 3 personal locks and you are reprimanded in one way or another if you don’t lockout, which is the total opposite and not only if my hourly don’t lockout I as a manager will be reprimanded if I don’t enforce their lockout, see, which is wonderful because years ago they will tell you, “Oh, just go in there and get it”, and now even the manager is disciplined if the employee doesn’t lockout. So that’s a big - that is a total opposite end of the spectrum. Doreen Howard: The other question that I want – you started to talk a little bit about Lourdestown that you’d gone down there for a couple of months. Diane Archer: Mm hmm. Doreen Howard: [32:57] What is some of the differences that you saw between Lourdestown and our facility and what makes us the capital quality compared to the other plants that you were in? Diane Archer: Um, when I went to Lourdestown it was very similar to Fisher Body here and their lines of demarcation versus Chevrolet. Okay that was so - I was okay with that. They were still pushing numbers, you know, get it out the door numbers and I went down for a week just this past year to job shadow and they were still pushing numbers. You know, get the number out the door and not that I don’t think they’re great down there too, but I had to talk to them about [inaudible 33:58] while I was down there, their management, because I observed an occasion where they weren’t locked out and he said, “We were in a hurry, we need to get these cars out. Cobalts are selling like mad”, so um, there’s still a difference from state to state, facility to facility and we are trying to change that as a company. We are trying to change it. I don’t know if you’re familiar with Michigan State or you’re from Michigan State, I don’t know, but we are trying to make sure everybody locks out, you know? Safety is our overriding priority and we want everyone to go back home like they come into work, but that was the biggest difference is they’re still pushing numbers down there. Doug Rademacher: Diane, I want to take you somewhere. I worked with you for a number of years. I was in the body shop driving a material truck and I observed that you enjoyed smoking. Diane Archer: Yes. Doug Rademacher: [34:56] There was a, there was a law passed in the County of Ingham and can you just talk about that? How did that impact your work life? Diane Archer: Oh, it impact my work life because I have to leave the facility to smoke, you know, and I choose not to quit smoking. That’s a personal choice I’ve made that I won’t quit smoking for personal reasons. I disagree that I can work in a body shop and have weld fumes all around me from galvanized steel, but I can’t smoke a cigarette inside the building. I, I had a personal problem with it. I sympathize with the employees. It’s not that easy to just say, “I’m not going to go smoke for 8 hours, I’ll just skip it.” So, it did impact my life. It impact me to the point that when I started getting really wound deep and my boss would tell me to go out ahead and go out and have a cigarette [laughter], um, so, but it’s the law. I wouldn’t violate the law. I would never smoke in the building. Until they did put in the smoking rooms, then I could smoke in the smoking room. I liked it a lot more when I could smoke where I chose to smoke. I do. I think, you know, it’s the same. We’re doing the – but we’re going another step farther at Delta, which was my big complaint. See, I smoke. My two other sisters don’t smoke. They both weigh 350 pounds a piece, but yet they did not stop the guy from eating the candy bar on the line. See, and he can eat candy all day long, but I can’t smoke my cigarette, you know, because I’m impacting others, but so is his obesity. I am raising the cost of healthcare, but so is his obesity. In fact, it’ll take me a little longer to die naturally from cancer than from him from dropping dead of the heart. [laughter] Diane Archer: And so, I had some real problems with it. Doug Rademacher: Well, I just observed you. I wanted to just hear that because it’s one of our questions about that change. We really haven’t asked a lot of people about that, but I knew you would… Diane Archer: I hate that change. Doug Rademacher: … I knew you enjoyed that and I started watching you snack and, uh, and uh, it was just … Diane Archer: But see at Delta… Doug Rademacher: [37:35] But would you as a manager, did you put pressure on your co-workers if you caught them smoking because a lot of people refused to go outside for quite a while. Diane Archer: I had to discipline 2 co-work or 2 employees for smoking, yes, and I put tons of pressure on my peers not to violate the law because we lead by example and I encouraged the nonsmokers to come out with me to get fresh air while I smoked and it’s amazing how many will, you know, it’s that little break outside now, but I just can’t jeopardize me catching pneumonia in January is any healthier for me, but it is healthier for others. Linda Johnson: [38:21] Well, can you smoke at the Delta plant? Are they going to have facilities for smokers or no? Diane Archer: From what I understand right now, they won’t have any facilities for smokers. So, I have to address that issue when I get there. [laughter] Diane Archer: I hate chewing gum. I just hate it and I think it’s nasty and … Doug Rademacher: Peanuts and M&Ms. It’s a different county. [38:56] So, I know General Motors has announced that they’ve banned smoking within their facilities, is that correct? Diane Archer: Yeah, GM wide. Even in Flint they’re going to nonsmoking. They’ve already cautioned the employees so that they can try to find other means of pacifying whatever it is we’re pacifying by smoking. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: It’s an addiction, but it’s, uh, being a different county it’s not against the law in that county to smoke. Diane Archer: Yeah, but it’s against corporate policy. Doug Rademacher: It’s against corporate so there will be, uh, at this point there’s nothing established for Delta but there will be outdoors, right? Diane Archer: Yeah. Doug Rademacher: Like you said, in January in Michigan. Diane Archer: See, I can’t see the connection. I mean I can’t and I never will until they pass a fat tax I’ll never agree with taxing cigarettes either, but that’s not for here. I want everybody to weigh on April 15 and pay their dollar a pound for every pound they are overweight for every day of the year and we would never have to collect tax on anything. My 2 sisters are my biggest harpers on why I smoke, but like I say, number 1 my mother lived longer than anyone in my family and she is deceased before, she had her 71st birthday in the hospital. Nobody in my family smoked. They all dropped dead of heart attacks, but all of my family fits in the United States category over ¾ of them are overweight and I mean not just 50 pounds overweight. I have 1 sister that had the by-pass surgery because she’s 5 of me, but she don’t smoke. She’s got clear lungs. I got a bet. Linda Johnson: [40:48] That you’ll live longer? Okay, my aunt lived to 87. She smoked since she was 14 and she was a slim lady her whole life. Diane Archer: Because it doesn’t kill your heart, it only kills your lungs. The obesity kills your heart. Not that we don’t care about obesity, we haven’t figured out how to control it because Burger King is so convenient and McDonald’s and all the fast foods, it’s terrible. I mean, look at even here within General Motors. It awes me. We haven’t changed the vending machines. I used to walk from the body shop up here to the door of Personnel because there in their vending machines was cheese and crackers and grapes and apples and oranges, but I worked in the body shop and you have your choice between pretzels and potato chips and candy bars and candy bars and chewing gum and candy bars and candy bars and candy bars. [41:43] What would you like to eat for a snack? See, even if we just took the effort and say here’s a vending machine with apples and oranges and grapes and cheese and crackers and something nutritious and healthy, maybe a banana every now and then. See, but we don’t, but that’s not the reason here but think about it. We’re pushing the wrong… Doug Rademacher: Everything has a reason. Diane Archer: …the health issue. We haven’t figured out how to, how to tax junk food. In fact, there’s no tax on junk food. You can buy – not even a food tax, not even a sales tax. You can buy all the junk food you want, we won’t tax that, okay. Eat it, but it’s killing us, see, but at least your killing yourself and not – but then you’re leaving your poor children without a parent or grandchildren without a grandparent. Marilyn Coulter: [42:37] But you know, Diane, you were talking about food. For your employees, um, ,what do you guys do for I mean I know often times, you know, they work 7 days a week and things like that, so what do they do as far as dinners or holiday parties and things like that, hourly and salary? Diane Archer: We used to have Christmas parties, holiday parties, you know, Easter and that and that kind of went away. It did. It kind of went away. Salaried, we had them offsite and that went totally away. Um, hourly, we had a party in here with our guys and even that died off in most areas. Um, I think the big kick on was we’re so diverse now that a lot of people don’t celebrate the holidays we celebrate and I think most everyone gets away from the holiday traditions where it used to be a big, a big holiday. Marilyn Coulter: [43:42] Did the dinners just because, did they do those just because we have to be here so we might as well be comfortable? Diane Archer: Um, sometimes, but here and now you have to have permission to have a dinner and I don’t know why we went to that extreme, but we’d have to get a slip signed and everything else for our people to bring any food in to have a dinner. So, it was like maybe a retirement party we’ll have a dinner where it used to be any reason we could find a party we’d have a party. I mean, if we’re working a Saturday, we’d have a cookout for lunch. Remember those days? Doug Rademache: I do, I very well [inaudible 44:21] Doreen Howard: Um, you were at a few different facilities. [44:28] From your viewpoint, what makes Fisher Body different? What makes our facility different than others? Diane Archer: Because I work here. Doreen Howard: Because you work here. [laughter] Diane Archer: We all make a difference. Honestly, we all make a difference so… Doreen Howard: [44:46] Is there any cultural differences as far as the groups of people and the things that they do within the facilities as, um… Diane Archer: See, I don’t think, personally, because I’m here I don’t know what’s happening there at the same time we’re making the changes here. Doreen Howard: Mm hmm. Diane Archer: They could be making the changes there and I will never see them because I’m here, so I only remember what that was not what it is today. However, I have a lot of family still working there, siblings. I came from a GM family, and it hasn’t changed a whole lot there, but you know we do, we passed this morning – we had a near miss accident in Wentzville and so we noticed notes in email this information around so then I could take it, it was a near miss on an air motor so I had to set my group down this morning and tell them about the near miss and that way we will know to check our equipment for the same thing. So, we have to be doing a lot in common in all GM facilities. Now community wise, even my housing was different. Up there, I lived in a house and I knew every neighbor for 3 blocks and we met every Saturday. If you were available at 1:00 you met at the park and so when I moved to Lansing that was different because I chose to do apartment living and people that live in apartments they do that because they don’t have time for all of the other things in life. So, that was different, but facility wise I think it’s very similar in all GM plants. I think the same problems I encounter you talk to a person in Alabama, they’ll encounter the same because we do [inaudible 46:37] work. We get together and you talk to people from other GM facilities at training classes and you find out it’s the same everywhere. We had the same issues growing up and now we have the same issues as we’re getting older. I mean, they’re putting us in a workout center now that I feel like I need a walker to walk. [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: Um Diane, you live in close proximity to Fisher Body. Diane Archer: Yes, 3/8 of a mile. Marilyn Coulter: [47:08] And what is it like to live in close to your work environment from the facility, living that close to the plant? Diane Archer: Um, it has a lot of great benefits, living close. In fact, at Delta I’m going to have to drive 6 miles a day and that’s almost kicking me, but um you never call in sick and you never call in and say the snow is too bad to get there and it helps me with my personal life living so close because I only have to get up an hour early. Some of my employees have an hour and a half drive to work, so I can’t imagine how they get up for this morning start. Um, it also keeps a lot of pressure on my personal life because if my [inaudible 47:56] I hear about it and my leaves in the front yard, I hear about it, and my old boss, Ollie Blacker from Plant 3, stops by once a week to see if I’m doing okay. I mean, so, it has its pros and cons, but gas I’m saving a fortune. I moved right here on Rosemary and I love the community. I don’t understand all their environmental concerns about the plant because as close I was I didn’t smell the plant at night, but, um, they had a lot of environmental concerns in my neighborhood so I went to the group once, the neighborhood click, to tell them that I didn’t voice – I didn’t have those concerns because the factory was here when I bought my house, it really was. Doug Rademacher: Good for you. Michael Fleming: Hi Diane. You talked about your 2 sisters. Diane Archer: Yes. Michael Fleming: [48:48] What, what do they do for a living? You mentioned GM family, can you talk about that a little? Diane Archer: Yeah, my sister, my younger sister is a tinsmith at Truck and Bus in Flint now, but she was also a tinsmith at Manufacturing when I was so she still is 659. Um, my older sister delivers the mail. She’s a postal worker, don’t get nervous, but [laughter] she’s the postal worker and, um, but a GM family. I have a brother who’s a millwright. He’s at the new Truck and Bus and I have a brother who’s an electrician, who to the best of my knowledge he is still at Buick. I don’t know where at Buick because he’s in the closing down process, but, um, yeah, we covered 4 trades. My brother and my 2 brothers-in-law are just line, they work on the assembly line. They’re line workers. Michael Fleming: [49:49] So, do y’all spend holidays together maybe? Diane Archer: Absolutely. Michael Fleming: Talk about those holidays. Diane Archer: Two of my brothers they are now ex-committee men and my 1 brother, Leroy, was per diem for management and I was a manager, and we still get together. This – in 3 weeks we’ll have our family Christmas party. It’ll be the 27th one where we rent rooms up at the Holidome in Grayling. None of us live in Grayling, it’s just the trip and its close enough we can all go and the children can go so there’s 63 of us in our immediate family; 8 of us are dependent on General Motors for our main incomes and our family, um, but we do argue a lot about the politics of General Motors and which plant has it together better and which one has a better wage. I remind them Lansing is always 1 and 2 in quality. We were always at the top and I do listen to all of their concerns from the hourly ranks on what’s wrong with management and they have to, no choice because I’m the most boisterous, to listen to my concerns on what’s wrong with the hourly workforce. Team concept, it’s a wonderful idea. Okay, I have always had team concept. I got in trouble for the team concept about 10 years ago when all of my electricians in 3rd shift rotated jobs out in underbody. All 8 of them rotated every week and I thought it was wonderful and they did, but we were forced to stop that so that everybody would know which electrician was here. So, I found that the team concept works to a degree. Everyone wants their input, but they don’t want the responsibility to be held responsible for the outcome or the decision and that concerns me right now because that says we’re going to it as, “It’s your decision Dave or Doug. Doug, you tell me what you want and I’ll stand behind you” and that was out last debate. We met here. A lot of my aunts and uncles are passing away so we have a funeral every month. Two weeks ago my uncle died and that was one of our discussions at dinner as I said, “We finally give him total team concept here, I’m empowering you to make a decision that I’ll live with and it’s harder than hell to get them to make the decision or to go even with the guidance, even with the insurance that I’ll support whatever you decide, you just make that”, they can’t. They want to make the decision without the responsibility. If I can say you told me, I know you can’t it’s the team. I empowered your team to do it, make it. Michael Fleming: Right. Diane Archer: See. Doug Rademacher: [52:57] Diane, is that attitude across the board or is it vary in age groups? Diane Archer: Uh, [inaudible 53:03] Doug Rademacher: [53:04] Are you finding the younger people willing to take the challenge or are the older people don’t want to, they still want to be directed and have you be the boss and they’ll do what you say, but they don’t want to embrace it or is it across the board? Diane Archer: Out of 54 people in GA, which I have an older work force, most of our people have over 25 years out there in Maintenance GA, I have seen 3 of them that are willing to step up to the plate and say, “Hey, I’ll go there and I decided this”. Three. Yeah, no. They can all tell you. They all tell me when I walk through, the 54 people, they’ll all tell me what they want and what they’d like to see, but they still want me to go do it for them and here’s an example. I have a millwright to this day that wants a welding class that Dallas Daniels from the paint shop took. He wants that welding class. It’s offered at LCC. I said, “Wonderful,” because I told him, “If you want a class that we don’t teach here, let me know and we’ll try to get you into that class now that we’re down for another 4 months”. So he said, “ I want the welding class.” I said, “Well, what’s the name of it?” “Well, you go get with Dallas because Dallas is now located geographically out there at Delta, go get with him, find out what the name of the class is and who – how he found out about the class or something. I mean, I don’t even know if it’s tin welding, wire welding, miller welding.” He said, “No, you do that”. I said, “Well, I can’t get you the class.” “Well, go out there and see Dallas”. I said, “No, you. We have a shuttle. All you have to do is go get on the shuttle, go see Dallas, find out the name of the class. That’s all you have to do.” And then he said, “I don’t care enough about the class. Never mind.” I said – and there’s 3 other millwrights sitting there, I said, “But, I told you I’ll do whatever it takes. I’ll knock down any roadblock if you want this class to make sure you get it”, because he was talking on how great it had benefit Dallas, “but, if I’ve got to go find out what the name of it is, I don’t want the class.” What do you do? What do you do? Now, if I drive out there and I find out the name of the class and get him enrolled next week, I can bet you a thousand bucks right now the man will go and he’ll be happy to have had the class, but he will not make the effort to catch the shuttle to go out there to ask another hourly guy what was the name of that class. Doug Rademacher: [55:41] And there is a telephone? Diane Archer: Yeah. Female: And there are schedule books. Diane Archer: So wha, what do you do? They are so used to after so long of telling the boss this is what I want, this is what I want and now here is when I argue with my brothers and sisters and that was the point I was getting to because up there they don’t have this full team concept yet. Um, it’s not working and that’s what they told me, that it’s not working. I tried to give them some ideas how they can make it work, you know, because I want to see it work, I really do want to see it work. I said, “It’s like me, I have a dog. I’ve had a dog for 11 years and the dog knows that I’ll have to hurt him bad if he ever urinates in my house. Okay, he did it as a puppy 11 years ago, so he’s not done it since”, and I said, “now after 11 years it’s like me telling the dog he can do whatever he want in this house, it’s your house”. If you think that dog is going to do it now in the house, he won’t, you know, even though it’s okay. I go in the house to use the facility. See, if I told my dog tomorrow or locked him in for a week I think he will die of illness before he would shit in that house. I’m telling you, and that’s what basically we’ve done. We’ve not allowed you to make a decision for 25 years and now we’ve said, “Make all the decisions”, see and it’s like they want me to do it so that I’ll accept the blame. No, I’m finally giving you the endorsement to do it and I think it will eventually and that’s what I argued with my brothers and sisters see because they say, “no, management just wants to blame us”. I said, “No, we as managers, I’m tired of running around for all my hourly. I am. If you want a class, you go find out see and then you can have that class.” So I asked them out there in Flint, even though I’m here, you know, to pull their groups together and start helping us. We don’t have a trap for anybody, you know, we’re not setting traps. We’re, we’re trying to make it a better corporation. Imagine that. So, how can it get any better? Marilyn Coulter: Basically what I hear you saying it’s the change process and the trust process. Diane Archer: Yes. Marilyn Coulter: Those are the two… Diane Archer: Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: …that, that’s also part of the building change. Diane Archer: Right. Marilyn Coulter: All that we have to change the way we think about things. Diane Archer: We have to change the way everybody is thinking. Marilyn Coulter: And the trust. Diane Archer: And trust. And trust everything, you know, and that’s a hard thing to do because you grow up it’s us against them and now it’s – and then it was we’ll work together, and now it’s you can even make the decision for me. See, which is great. I mean, it will work. It’s – when you think about it in your personal life you do it every, every person does it in their personal life when they grow up as a child, on their own, and then they meet someone the fall in love with, then they have to learn to trust them, and then all of the sudden it doesn’t matter if I make the decision or my spouse it’s our decision see and that’s where we’re at. We’re combining to make our decisions and pretty soon it will work and we’ll live happily ever after, and we’re trying to get to that marriage, which is cool. I mean it is because if you’d have asked me the week I hired in to General Motors if I ever thought as an hourly person I could have a single thread of input on anything, I would tell you no. In fact, after 5 years I would’ve told you no because the management walked out, told you want to do, and you did it or you were sent out. Marilyn Coulter: Um, but with, with some of this team processes and changes I know earlier we talked about – you had talked about like the deep dive processes and stuff like that and now they’re able, the employees are being able to have this input so getting there you’re on the road to getting there. Diane Archer: Absolutely. Yeah. I think within 10 years we’ll be there. I do. I think everything will come together. First it has to come together and that’s what we’re doing. We’re bringing it all together. I think the next generation to hire into GM will just be odd that it’s more like a family, it’s more like it doesn’t matter who makes the decision just as a group decide, make the decision and follow through with it. Marilyn Coulter: Just going back over that because you said family and I know you said before you had 1 of your old supervisors, um Ollie… Diane Archer: Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: …who comes by. [60:12] So have you had many friendships and stuff build here that have extended outside the facility? Diane Archer: Hundreds. Hundreds, we all do. I mean, I don’t know anyone who’s ever worked at General Motors that doesn’t have friends within General Motors. I mean, there’s workers and there’s associates and there’s friends, but all of us – I haven’t met anyone that’s never taken a friend out of GM, you know. It’s part of it. It’s like high school. You do the same thing in school. You have at least 1 friend from school and when you hire in GM, you know, but that’s what I mean. I mean, I couldn’t even envision 25 years ago a boss coming by who’s no longer my boss just to see if everything is going okay or if we need any help or – and then [throat clearing] excuse me, a guy went to Grand River and, you know, he emailed me that he’s doing well so I sent it out to Body Shop and over the Plant 3 to let them know that, you know, I heard from this guy and he’s doing well and Sear’s – yeah, we established a whole networking outside of work. Yeah, it’s like family. Doug Rademacher: [61:30] Diane, is there anything particular that someone had done special for you whether it be personal or in the work place when you may have had a hard time and someone, a coworker, stepped up or a colleague or supervisor or regular worker, anybody anything that ever stands out that somebody was there for you at Lansing? Diane Archer: In Lansing, just Ollie. Doug Rademacher: Just Ollie. Diane Archer: Yeah. Doug Rademacher: Good ole Ollie. Diane Archer: And he just recently, Ollie. Yeah, but I can’t tell you any story where I had anybody step out and beyond other than Ollie, you know, to see how we’re doing and he checks on every one of his old employees. Doug Rademacher: I’d like to ask you another question. [62:24] You have great attitude and you seem very concerned about doing everything right, but can you talk about 1 of the funnest days you had at General Motors at Fish Body Flint? Was there a day that was just a gas or anything that went on that was silly or fun? Diane Archer: Um, we had a lot of fun days. Don’t, don’t, you think I don’t have fun here? I wouldn’t be here every day if I didn’t have fun. Um… Cheryl McQuaid: [62:59] Could you maybe tell us some of the things that made work fun in here? Were there any pranks pulled? Diane Archer: Let’s see. The, uh, no. I don’t know. Cheryl McQuaid: [63:17] Do you remember ever coming back from being out walking someplace and finding a scooter in your office maybe? Diane Archer: No. I’ve heard of a lot of pranks pulled in here. I have, but, uh, I didn’t participate in them and, yeah, we pulled some pranks and had fun. You know, I’m kind of like drawing blanks. Okay. I’ll tell you 1 in the office, not out on the floor. No hourly. In the office. Well, I work with another female supervisor, Annie. I’m on days, Annie’s on 3rd. Okay, and there’s a particular gentleman working in between us so I wanted to name him, but 1 day rumor come to its 2nd shift had 5 male maintenance employees and for some reason on their meeting they started discussing women logs, I gotta tell you this, so what happened, they talked to me in the morning and I talked to Annie, you know, at night. When I come in they said, “Oh, our meeting was over. You girls write too long logs”, you know, and women do tend to write a lot more detailed than men. So I said, “Oh yeah?” And he said, “Yeah”. So then I told that to Annie and this was a new boss so we confronted the 2nd shift boss together. I made a special trip in here, you know, so we could put him on speaker and we let all the guys that was in this meeting, you know, listen and stuff like that, listen to what he said squirming out the fact that he was gossiping about our logs. [laughter] Diane Archer: So, and this was, you gotta see the humor in it, so we all laugh because even the guys working for him know that he was in speaker. He’s the only 1 that didn’t know so we let him stew for a little while because he called them into his office one at a time to let them know that somebody had snitched him out to us. So, but if we all know what’s going on. Okay. So, we had a, we had laughs over that for a week because then then next week we didn’t write anything but good day, bad day. See… [laughter] Diane Archer: [throat clearing] So, this still goes on and this is how these little jokes impact you. When that person left here to go to Grand River, 4 years later, and we come up and told him before the end of the shift that the day was over, 4 years later he called us up there and said, “You really taught me a valuable lesson that day” and it was just a joke. [laughter] Diane Archer: He said, “I’ve never ever discussed a woman’s log since.” So, and here’s a more recent one similar to that. We were having a, a Delta orientation. That’s when salary pranks are different than hourly pranks. We’re having a Delta orientation and my, my boss he, who would be the Maintenance Superintendent, he made a comment and a stand up about one of our tech supports who is vertically challenged, he’s short, and he said, “Oh, stand up. Stand up tech support. Well Dave, come on. Stand up, oh you are standing up.” You know, being so short, so um, we all laughed. It was in the Oldsmobile Room. We all laughed and thought nothing of it. So, that was the day of the GA picnic and we had a picnic so you could get to know everybody and the next thing George Waller went up to him and said, “You know, I received some concerns that you discriminated against short people.” See, now this is we have a new superintendent who’s from Truck and Bus in Flint down here. He’s only been here a short while see and said, “I don’t know how well this is going to go over at salaried personnel, but I’m sure you’re going to have to have a meeting because, you know, this is the assistant plant manager that, that had heard about this short comment.” So then Dave, our superintendent, said to us group leaders, “Ooh, you know I don’t know if I’m going to be fired over this one or how far this is going to go.” He said, “You know, I said it in a spirited way. I was just having fun.” I said, “Well, it’s not fun if you happen to be that short guy.” It’d be fun for the rest, but to make a long story short, the whole picnic was worried and they come up to him right at the end of the picnic and said, “How did it feel?” See, we we’re just joking. Nobody voiced any concerns. They actually talked George into doing that, which awed me because – and that impresses me that he can play a prank too and I think that’s because you gotta have fun with work. You know that. You have to have fun, you know. Not too much because we’ve had too much sometimes. Marilyn Coulter: Diane, we really appreciate your coming and sharing all of your memories with us and just want to thank you. Diane Archer: Thank you. Cheryl McQuaid: Thank you. Doreen Howard: Thank you. Doug Rademacher: Thank you Diane. Diane Archer: Any questions, just call. /cv