Don Davis discusses his career in General Motors and specifically as a maintenance manager at the Fisher Body plant in Lansing, MI Doreen Howard: Uh, Doreen Howard. I’m, uh, at the, what is this... Interviewer: Jobs Bank. Doreen Howard: ...the Jobs Bank out in Dewitt. Doreen Howard: Uh, we will be interviewing Don Davis today. Um, it is December 20, 2005, approximately 8 a.m., um, Marilyn, um, you guys go ahead here. Marilyn Coulter: Marilyn Coulter. John Fedewa: John Fedewa. Doreen Howard: Yeah, I just push the stop and, and then let it go. Marilyn Coulter: It's recording. Doreen Howard: It's recording. Okay. All right. Marilyn Coulter: Marilyn Coulter. John Fedewa: John Fedewa. Doreen Howard: [0:49] Okay, and, um, Don can you, um, state and spell your last name and your address? Don Davis: Yes, it's Don Davis, um, D-A-V-I-S. My address is 16720 Wacousta Road, Grand Ledge, Michigan. Doreen Howard: [1:04] Okay. Um, Don, are, are you married and do you have any children? Don Davis: I am. I have 3 children. Doreen Howard: [1:12] Okay, and, um, what is your educational background or military, do you have any military service? Don Davis: I do. I have 3 years military. Um, I served in Vietnam. I was, um, a, a pilot. I was, um, I was in a lot of different areas in the military and my education is criminal justice. I have a criminal justice degree and also an electrical degree. Doreen Howard: [1:36] Okay, um, great, um, what is your seniority date and can you, um, talk about the first time that you hired in to General Motors? Don Davis: My original seniority date was the year I got out of the service, which was 1962. I hired in to Flint Chevrolet, and, uh, but I worked 3 years and then, I, I quit and broke my seniority to go to college and do some other adventures, so, uh, I have a total of 30 years, but again, it's broken service so, um, I don’t know what date we really wanna use. Doreen Howard: [2:15] Okay, um, now your service time at Flint, was that all at the Chevy plant or did you, um, go to other facilities in Flint? Don Davis: I worked at other plants in Flint. I worked at Chevrolet, what they call “down in the hole,” which is Chevrolet assembly. I worked at Flint Truck Plant. I worked at AC Sparkplug. I worked at Flint Fisher, uh, I worked at several plants around the Flint area because of layoffs and reductions in forces and things like that. Doreen Howard: [2:42] Now during that time, you hired in as an hourly employee, correct? Don Davis: I did. The early years, in the 60s, I hired in as a production worker and, uh, decided I thought I wanted to go out and try some other things, so that's why I went back to school to become an electrician and eventually coming back in to Chevrolet as an electrician and then a-, again, transferring over to Lansing after that. Doreen Howard: [3:06] Okay, and, um, at what timeframe did you come to the Lansing facility? Don Davis: I came from Chevrolet, uh, in 1982, uh, there was a layoff and I was transferred over as an area hire, um, in 1982 and hired in the body shop as an electrician. Doreen Howard: [3:28] And, um, at what, uh, timeframe did you go on to management? Don Davis: I went on management, uh, in 1985 and became a skilled trade supervisor, uh, again in the body shop for a period of time, went to trim for a while and, uh, I had the trim and building 23, which was body shipping. Doreen Howard: [3:54] Now when you came in in '82, the plant was cons-, uh, called Fisher Body at that date? Don Davis: That’s correct. Doreen Howard: Okay. Um, Marilyn? Marilyn Coulter: [4:06] Um, when you came from – to Lansing from Flint, were there any big differences that you saw in as far as the cultures of the people that worked and how were you, um, accepted as being an electrician from another plant? Don Davis: There was a total difference in culture and the environment was totally different over here from what I was used to in Flint, uh, the atmosphere that it was more friendly over here, uh, we were accepted easily into the plant, uh, there was absolutely no problems. The uh, the management-union relationship was so much better over here, uh, I mean I could tell you stories about Flint that we don’t want to talk about, not that they were that bad but they were so much different. You never saw hourly and salary mingle in, in Flint ever whether it be a restaurant, uh, and afterhours and to have a drink after work, whatever. You just never saw that and that was probably the biggest thing that I saw – the biggest difference I saw when I came over here. Doreen Howard: [5:06] Um, so when you came in, you hired into the Fisher Body Plant as an hourly employee and you said you were an electrician at that time? Um, describe what, what it was like when you first came in there. What was tha-, the, uh, facilities, uh, like – you know what was the atmosphere in there? Don Davis: Well, it was, obviously, it was an older plant but I was used to that because most of the plants in Flint were, were, you know, were older plants but all the uh – in fact all the equipment when I first got here was the old style, the old, the old, all the old equipment and then I got to help set up the new robotic areas and all of the things that, that we did in Lansing, uh, back in the mid-80s and got to do that whole transition thing. Doreen Howard: [5:55] So, the robotics, that all came in with the, the Grand Am? Don Davis: That’s correct. Doreen Howard: [6:02] In what, ’84, is that when that? Don Davis: ’84 is when we started, right. Doreen Howard: Okay. Don Davis: Yeah. Doreen Howard: [6:07] Um, can you explain some of the differences between the way that, um, the facilities was prior to the robotics and a lot of the technology coming into the plant? What, what was, uh, some of the differences that, that you saw? As… Don Davis: Well, the, the biggest thing was that it was the old hands-on, uh, well guns, everything to do in the body shop, which is what I was mor-, most familiar with were all the standalone fixtures, no robotics. Everything was done by hand and, uh, the biggest transition there of course was that – what we had a lot of reaps to come up. We had to learn how to run the equipment, we installed the equipment and then there was a big difference in the way the people, uh, operated with the new machinery because it, it didn’t really eliminate jobs but it changed jobs. It moved people to different things and some of the things that people did by hand then the robots did but, uh, in my way of thinkin’, I didn’t see that it did replace, uh, people like they thought it might. Doreen Howard: Marilyn. Marilyn Coulter: [7:11] Did you find that actually the robots took away, um, took the jobs that were like probably unsafe and unhealthy for people to be doing? Don Davis: To a lot of degree that’s true. There was a lot of jobs that people did with hands-on that probably weren’t safe, uh, by today’s standards especially and, uh, both for ergonomics and everything else, uh, that did relieve a lot of those, of those stresses for sure. Marilyn Coulter: [7:38] So, when you were doing, um, those electric – those jobs as an electrician at that time, um, were you working many hours? Don Davis: We worked on the average, uh, – well I worked 7 days a week all my life pretty much in GM, uh, up until the last couple of years. That is just the way it was. I mean, yeah, there was – we worked 7 days a week, you worked sometimes double shifts, uh, and that was jus-, just a way of life when you were in skilled trades. Marilyn Coulter: [8:07] So, when you – because that is the way of life and it becomes such a big part of your life, what were some of the things that you did? I mean, did your workers become like your work family and what types of things did you do to pass the time in so far as how, how did you get along communicating and then pass the time? Don Davis: Well, if you’d, if you’d look at the clock, you were with the people you worked with more than you were your own family. Your awake hours you spent more time at work, which we all do anyway, uh, with your workers than you do at home. So, there was a lot – the downside of that is, you don’t see your family as much, you do not see your children grow up as you should. We did spend an awful lot of hours in the factory and, uh, and it did, it did, uh, not allow us to do a lot of family things that we should’ve probably been doing. Marilyn Coulter: [8:59] So, you were – your coworkers became your work family where the things – did you guys have dinners? Don Davis: We did. Marilyn Coulter: Like… Don Davis: Uh, you know, it was a close family, I mean especially by area, if you worked in the body shop, or if you worked in trim or paint, uh, yeah, you had dinners. There was always somebody bringing in food or cooking, or – it was very close and, uh, even after hours you found that you would even socialize after hours with the same people you worked with, so, yeah it was a close family. Marilyn Coulter: So, uh, I just want to digress just a little bit. [9:31] Um, what brought you into Fisher? Wha-, what brought you to the GM Fisher Body family? Don Davis: Well, I worked outside for a number of years. I was an electrician, I was a pilot, uh, I was a policeman and I did a lot of things that, that, uh – I guess that the final result that brought me back in the factory was I enjoyed being an electrician, I enjoyed the, the work, uh, I was, I was getting a little older [laughter], more mature I would like to say, but actually older and, uh, so I thought I wanted to go someplace to retire from and the jobs that I was doing, uh, back in those – in the 70s, uh, didn’t pay as well on the outside and, uh, to be honest, I was lookin’ for security probably more than anything. Marilyn Coulter: I see. [10:17] So, um, what made you, uh, decide to go from hourly to salary? Don Davis: Well, uh, I don’t know, I, uh, I was approached several times to go on salary and I really didn’t want to. I was a union person all my life and I firmly believed in the union, I still believe in the union more than, than I probably do the salary side and, uh, for a lot of reasons, uh, and of course, I was apprehensive. I didn’t really want – I didn’t know that…the other side of the fence if you would. I didn’t, I didn’t want to manage people so much, uh, but then I thought maybe I could help a little bit more with maybe change some of the styles and things like that if I did go in management, so, so that’s why I did it. Marilyn Coulter: [11:06] That’s…Okay, I’m gonna move back a little bit further because you said that you were union active and were you active in the union prior to becoming a salaried person? Don Davis: I was not ever an elected official in the union but I was all my life, or all the years up until the time I came back in the factory, I was, uh, you know, I’d…I had served my time on the picket line with everybody else. I went through labor, you know strifes, especially in the Flint area, uh, that was a pretty volatile area. There was always something, you know, no matter where you worked it, you, you had problems, you know with, uh, with again with the labor management arena so it was just, uh – I just believe in the union that if the union hadn’t been there that the salary folks or nobody else would have had what they had, so, that’s, that’s my background. Marilyn Coulter: That’s good. [11:55] Alright, um, you said so that you could change the salary style. To you, what made a bad supervisor or a good supervisor and what were the changes that you wanted to have? Don Davis: Well, a good supervisor, uh, finds who his people are, finds out what their strengths and weaknesses are and lets them perform a job without telling them every step of the way that everything they have to do. There, there – they know their jobs whether – no matter what their jobs are, skilled, non-skilled, whatever. They know how to do their job and you just put the faith in back in them and left them do their work. If they need help, then you assist ‘em, then you don’t, you now you don’t, uh – I know, that’s just the way I was. Marilyn Coulter: That’s great. Doreen Howard: Doreen Howard. [12:42] Um, I want to take you back to somethin’ that you, uh, had touched on, uh, you talked about, uh, strikes and things like that in Flint, um, can you elaborate a little bit more on the issues that surrounded that? Don Davis: Well, there was, there was both, you know, there was wildcat strikes that I was involved in that, that, uh, that – again Flint was a lot different than Lansing. That’s one of the big differences that Marilyn asked me about, uh, there was times that, that it wasn’t even safe to go to work because if you, uh, if, if you – if, if there was a wildcat or whatever, you better participate and there was people that really, really wanted to go to work an-, and, uh, and they would – the, the company would put people out on disciplinary, they would send them out by, uh, the numbers, like 50 or 100 people and then they would, they would replace them with people right off the street and try to break their jobs. So, there was a lot of strife. I mean there was, there was – you would have management people up on the roofs of the building taking your picture going out to your car. I mean it was just a totally different atmosphere over there. So, uh, it was just a way of life, just a totally different culture and… Marilyn Coulter: [13:58] Um, can you explain what a wildcat strike is? Don Davis: Well, a wildcat is pretty much based on the fact that it’s not sanctioned either by the union or the company, uh, people would just up and walk out, uh, over an issue, it could be a safety issue, it could be, uh, work, added work that was put on, uh, some operators and, and uh, and the whole plant could walk out and that’s what they would do. It didn’t happen often but it wasn’t very, very friendly when it did. Doreen Howard: Doreen Howard. [14:33] Um, during – when you came to Fisher Body, um, you said you never saw the conflicts that you saw between the union and the management at, at the Flint facility. Was there ever any, uh, point during your, um, timeframe here that they had any, any type of strike at our – at the Fisher facility and if, if there was, do you recall what it was about? Don Davis: You know, we did have the 1 strike and it only lasted what, about 3 days, that, uh, I was out of town at the time. I wasn’t even involved in it until I, you know, and I, to be honest with you, I don’t remember what those issues were that, that brought that about, uh, but as far as the, the relationship between the 2, no, there was, there was – it was, everything was always, uh, negotiable. Everybody sat down and talked about it. We didn’t always agree but, uh, they always seemed to resolve things in a much friendlier and a-, in a more professional way. Doreen Howard: [15:38] Um, Fisher Body over the years had become, uh, known as the “Capital of Quality”, um, what do you think about that statement and what do you feel makes that statement true and, um, compare the quality at the Fisher plant compared to the quality that you saw, um, at the Flint plants? Don Davis: Well, the “Capital of Quality” was a good, a good statement because we did, from the time I got here they did, uh – quality was number 1 not numbers and in Flint, uh, if you had a job, uh, that you had to produce so many parts, if you could pro-, produce those parts in 3 hours and your shift was 8 hours you went home in 3 hours and you got paid for 8. So, there was never any quality built into a system like that, uh, totally the opposite here in, in Lansing because everybody, uh, you had different checks and balances. There was, uh, and it was a personal thing. Most all employees felt responsible for the quality of the product that they built, uh, which we never saw in some of the other plants. Doreen Howard: Um, let’s see here… Marilyn Coulter: [16:55] Um, I had a question for you, Marilyn Coulter, um, as a hourly employee and as a salaried employment, employer, which – can you tell us what were some of, or 1 of your most memorable moments and 1 of your most rewarding moments? Don Davis: [laughter] I don’t know, that would be, that would be so difficult to, to answer. I would tell you that I probably enjoyed, uh, being an hourly worker more than a salary worker and primarily because I like to do a hands-on. I mean I just don’t like to stand back and supervise and it was really difficult for me ta-, to, to do that, uh, I mean because I really – again I thought I was pretty good at what I did but then I couldn’t do it anymore and I had to try to, you know help people do their job but not bein’ able to do anything myself. It was just different, uh, but the satisfactions are keepin’ equipment running, the satisfactions of, of havin’ a good workforce and the things like that. I guess that’s probably the most mem-, memorable part of what I did. Marilyn Coulter: [17:59] Are you the only member of your family that works in Fisher Body or for GM? Don Davis: I am. Uh, my father worked in, in Fisher Body back in Flint in the, in the 40s but just for a short time but I was the only career person if you would in my family for GM. Marilyn Coulter: Great… Doreen Howard: Doreen Howard. [18:20] Um, how did the, um, changing in the – as far as the plant population based on, uh, gender, an-, and race, um, how did that affect you as far as, um, the comparison between the Flint – what was the demographics of the workforce there versus when you came into the Fisher plant? What was the demographics like in, in our plant? Don Davis: I would say in that respect, they were comparable. I don’t think there was a lot of difference in, in how many women or how many minorities or how many, you know, what the workforce was made up with, uh, Flint was a pretty diverse town, an-, and as far as that goes, um, so I didn’t see a lot of difference there. I really didn’t. Marilyn Coulter: [19:06] Being that you, uh, worked in the skilled trades arena, Marilyn Coulter, and um, you were a hourly person and a salaried person in the skills trade arena for females, what would you say the skilled trades world is like for them and has it changed over the years? Don Davis: It has changed greatly. When they – when the, when females were first accepted in the skilled trades they had a really rough road, uh, it was a male dominated workforce, uh, and the women were really discriminated against. They had a tough time. The early women that came on, they had to prove – almost prove themselves as a man if you would. I mean, they, they’d come into a “man’s world” if you would and they did have a tough time and, uh, fortunately some of the ones – the first ones that came on – that I saw came on, could, could handle themselves as a man but that really wasn’t fair. They shouldn’t a had to do that… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Don Davis: …and that’s changed drastically. I mean you just don’t – anymore it’s who can do the job, male, female, it doesn’t matter, uh, that’s changed a lot. Marilyn Coulter: What, um… Doreen Howard: Doreen Howard. [20:24] Um, I guess, has, do you feel that the supervisory techniques have changed since you first, uh, went into the, the salary arena versus, uh, how it is today? Don Davis: Yes. It has changed a lot, when, when – whether it was Flint or Fisher Body, the earlier years was, uh, totally dominated by, by the supervisor. The supervisor told you everything. What to do it, when to do it, how to do it, uh, and didn’t involve the employees. Didn’t let them use their minds if you would to help with the process. That’s changed, uh, completely changed and matter of fact it has gone the other way, uh, so much to the point where I don’t think that the supervisor really does a lot of supervising. It is the hourly folks that put their teams together, decide how the job should be done, uh, the best way it can be done, uh, the quality aspects of it, uh, the environmental – all kinds of things that they do now that, that it’s a totally different environment. Doreen Howard: Marilyn Coulter. Marilyn Coulter: [21:31] Um, Don, can we talk about supervisory techniques? You came up through the rank and file onto salary, how do you feel works having as a manager who comes in through the rank and file versus one who comes in off the street? Is there a big difference in… Don Davis: Well, there’s, there’s – I think there is. I think that that’s, that it helps the person. I think that, you know, if they’ve come off the floor and came from that environment, learned the jobs, knew the jobs and then became a supervisor. I s-, I think you have to know the job to be able to teach the job or to supervise that job, uh, nothing against college, uh, degreed folks that come in that have no prior experience, uh, they come in with a different attitude, different aspect. They, uh, they’re, they’re educated and, uh, but they don’t always know how to deal with the people, they don’t understand all the jobs, um, an-, and if they’re smart enough they can learn to do that if they can put their trust in the people and learn from the people but I think that the guy that – or the person, guy or woman, that comes off the floor has, uh, has the upper hand I think. I think they do a better job. Marilyn Coulter: [22:45] In so far – because being skilled trades, that is a very – can be a very dangerous, dangerous job, um, both as a um hourly person and a salary person, uh, can you stress anything that is important so far that you had to do as a manager to make sure your employees are safe? Don Davis: Well, we’re mandated by, by MIOSHA and different laws as to what, what our safety training protocol is and, uh, as a manager, it has become more apparent in the last few years is that you, you have to make sure that everybody’s fully safety trained, they have all the equipment, the safety equipment, the training, uh, because there’s liabilities now too in these – in the last few years. Uh, if a supervisor allows an employee to work in an unsafe manner and that person gets injured, uh, there is liability back on that supervisor today. It’s not just the company that will back – it’ll take that responsibility. That individual is responsible for their employees, so, there is a lot at stake. I mean primarily number 1 is you want to make sure nobody gets hurt. You want everybody go home just like they came to work. So, but, it’s, it’s, it’s inherent you have to make sure that everybody’s safety trained. Doreen Howard: Doreen Howard. [24:00] Um, you have touched base on, on some – the safety training as a skilled trades employee, um, what type of training did, did they have? Was there training that you had to have prior to going on your certain jobs? Was there training once you became, um, an electrician that you had to continue your education? Was there any type of ongoing training that, that you had to, to take? Don Davis: Yeah, there’s classes both from fall hazard, you had those types of classes. You had electrical safe work practice. You had equipment that you, that you wore, uh, and that’s changed over the years. It was quite lax early on. Now, it’s the rubber gloves and sleeves and all the things that you have to do that are – that have come into the workforce, uh, it, it seems sometimes we go overboard. Uh, at one point and time we did hardly enough to ensure the safety and then we go the other way to the other extreme. It makes it a little more difficult for the employees to do their work but bottom line is it’s all about safety an-, and so you have to look at it that way. Doreen Howard: [25:12] Do you think that you actually, um, is there any statistics that they’ve, um, proven that all this training and additional, uh, precautions have helped over the years, or…. Don Davis: They have. They have. Uh, you know, I couldn’t recite any but I would tell you that, uh, my early years I saw a lot of people get hurt very badly. I have seen people get killed. Uh, I have witnessed that and, uh, I would, I would say that the last uh, oh 15 years or so, in this environment, I have not seen anybody severely injured in any way, uh, lacerations and then maybe a broken bone or something like that, but nothing to the degree that I saw early on. Marilyn Coulter: Um, Marilyn Coulter. [26:03] And I know it does affect you but, I, an-, and I too have witnessed someone, you know, who got killed in the plant, um was that in Lansing Fisher Body that you witnessed that? Don Davis: Uh, that’s 1. I did see 1 killed here. That’s, that’s correct, uh, a contractor, outside contractor, maybe is that, maybe that’s what you’re referring too? Marilyn Coulter: [26:24] Was that the one in 3X? Don Davis: Yes, that one. Marilyn Coulter: Yes, that’s the same 1. Don Davis: Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: [26:28] Um, how, when being a manager and a skilled trades person, how did you – how did it affect you and how did you deal with that? Don Davis: Well, the sad part about any accident is that after you analyze it and you realize what happened, it, it should never have happened and most accidents are that way. We can all look back an-, and sometimes joke about it as long as we don’t get hurt but when, when you have a person, or, or people that are not familiar with equipment or, or the plant, or the environment they are in, uh, the sad thing about that particular one was that that person got in the line and didn’t know the line was going to start up when he had a break time or a lunchtime as a I remember and the line started up and, uh, and, and he was subsequently killed but, uh, you know it affects you. I mean, I have had, you know – you have got to remember that we, again, were with these folks more than we are our own families at home so if somebody, you know gets hurt like that, but the other side of it is you have got to learn from that an-, and pass that on an-, and that’s what we do. Marilyn Coulter: [27:34] I know that, um, General Motors does have, um, they have been very good as far as having provisions for their workers. I know they had work-family reps that were there to help, um, the people who were on the line, were there people that also helped your employees also? Don Davis: Yes, uh, yeah there was. There was counseling and there was a lot of things available to the, to the, to the folks an-, and it’s unfortunate that everybody had to witness that but the other side of it is is that the Fisher Body folks really came together on that even though that was an outside person that was, that was, uh, killed, uh, they took up a collection for the family. They did all kinds of things, uh, it was really rewarding. I mean that was really a nice gesture and uh, but it was, it was a tragic thing to see. Doreen Howard: Doreen Howard. [28:23] Um, that sounded as if that was probably one of your saddest, uh, times here, um, do you recall any happy or funny moments that, that occurred during your time at the plant? Don Davis: Oh boy, in 30 years [laughter] you see a lot of things that are funny but, uh [laughter]… Doreen Howard: [28:45] So what’s, what’s some of the pranks or some of the crazy things… Marilyn Coulter: Yeah. Doreen Howard: …that people used to do to entertain themselves? Don Davis: Uh, well, you know, Fisher Body always, well all the plants back in their early years had a good – they had more fun at their jobs if you would. Uh, there was always pranks goin’ on, uh, they claim there – even, even sometimes there was a little socializing that maybe shouldn’t of went on… Doreen Howard: [laughter]. Don Davis: …but uh, but I know down in the body shop, they used to, uh, put gas in, in the A-pillars and B-pillars and things, an-, and to the next guy come along and weld and they’d have a little explosion in there… Interviewer: [laughter]. Don Davis: …that’d scare people and of course there was people rode in cars that, uh, that weren’t appropriately dressed. Things like that. There was a lot of things that I probably ought not go into some of those. [laughter]. Doreen Howard: No, no, that’s, that’s what they do that we are interested in…so that the culture and things like that. Interviewer: [laughter]. John Fedewa: [cough]. Doreen Howard: [29:40] Um, what did you do during lu-, lunchtimes and things like that? Did you eat in the, um, supervisor dining area, or did you…. Don Davis: I never did. Doreen Howard: …what did you do? Don Davis: I never did. Uh, that was another interesting thing about Lansing was a lot of the folks went across and I’ll use Harry’s as an example. We couldn’t wait until lunchtime to go over an-, an-, and have a, have a beer and, uh, it didn’t matter if you were hourly or salary over there, that’s, that’s what really struck me the first time I went into Harry’s and saw a supervisor sittin’ at a table wi-, with some hourly folks. I was amazed because you didn’t see that, I mean you didn’t see that. The salary folks didn’t even walk through a parkin’ lot over in Flint so I thought, you know, God, who is this guy. Well, the one guy that I saw that I met in the bar one day was actually turned out to be my supervisor. Interviewer: [laughter]. Don Davis: So, it was, it was interesting, but no we, uh – I saw the mate in the plant, I’d – it was a chance to get out of there, an-, and I did. Marilyn Coulter: Um, let’s see here…[30:43] So, I know you said that they took a benefit dinner, did you participate in many of the benefit dinners that they did in the plant? Did they do a lot of that? Don Davis: Oh yes. They had benefits for a lot of folks, uh, over the years. I, I par-, every one they ever had I was – I participated in, uh, whether it would be at Christmastime for the Toy’s for Tot’s or whether it was an employee that had cancer, or whatever. Uh, Fisher was really good about that. I didn’t see that as much, uh, in other plants but Fisher was great about that. Uh, if there was an employee sick, no matter where or what department that person was in, uh, all the areas put on a fundraiser for that family and they did a wonderful job at it and raised a lot of money an-, and there was a lot of hard work that went in to, to make that happen. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. [31:27] I know, um, we, we did a lot for people inside and outside the plant and that’s one of the things that, um, working 7 days did you realize – notice a lot of the people who were at the gates when you left from the outside communities that came to collect – for collections and stuff? Don Davis: They did. Yeah. There was, uh, no matter what the occasion was that you’re right, they were either in the plant or at the gates an-, and everybody did very well with that. They all, um, gave money or donated food, whatever and, uh, it was a – Fisher was a big family. They just seemed to, you know – they didn’t all know each other but they seemed to get along very well. Marilyn Coulter: [32:05] So, you worked 7 days a week, what did you do for holidays? Don Davis: Worked [laughter]. Marilyn Coulter: [32:12] Did you have dinners and things then also? Don Davis: We, yeah, we did, we did, it’s, you know, that tradition always went on, uh, but that’s true, I can remember workin’ 6 months straight without a day off and we used to, we used to kinda joke about it, you know how many days we worked without ever havin’ a day off cause you didn’t know any different. You just got up and you went to work. It didn’t, it didn’t matter if it was Sunday or, or Christmas or what it was. You just got up and went to work cause that’s just, that’s just the way it was. Marilyn Coulter: [32:38] What shifts did you work Don? Don Davis: I worked all shifts. Uh, I spent, as most people did, uh, my early years on 2nd and 3rd shift and then the later years, uh, I spent probably the last 5 or 7 years or so on days, uh, because of what my job was, but uh, it took a while for seniority-wise to get, to get to the day shift obviously. Marilyn Coulter: [33:00] And that’s your preferred shift? Don Davis: It was. It was. Uh, i-, in some ways the nightshifts worked better. I, I enjoyed workin’ nights, uh, selfishly I guess as I look back but, uh, it was a good, it was a good place – a good time to be in the plant maybe more than it was on day shift. Doreen Howard: Doreen Howard. [33:21] Um, as a skilled tradesperson, did you ever do what they’d consider a governmental job for anyone or did you ever have any-, anyone make something for you in the plant an-, and if so, you know… Don Davis: That sounds like a… Doreen Howard: …and what kind of things did they make and what kind of… Don Davis: That sounds like a loaded question but… Doreen Howard: …interesting stuff? Interviewer: [laughter]. Don Davis: …, uh, yeah, of course that went – that, that happened. There was, uh, what you’d call, ga-, government work was something that somebody wanted made either for their person or for their department. It wasn’t always something that, that you made to, to, to give away or to take outta the plant, but there was things, creature comforts as I would call them, uh, some of the production workers would want a locker made or a bench made or this or that made. So, yeah, from skilled trades standpoint, we had, you know, we had the ability to do that so we did that a lot. Uh, the early years, I would tell you that there was, uh, a lot more of that went on. There was cars painted. There was things that, that, uh, that they did, um, that was sanctioned actually but as the years went on, that changed a lot. Marilyn Coulter: [34:29] Speaking of the outside and being an electrician, did that, I am Marilyn Coulter, did that allow you to, um, even though workin’ 7 days would be difficult to do things on the outside with your profession also? Don Davis: On the outside, you didn’t, you worked – it was a different environment. You worked, uh, you worked out of a hall and you were sent to different cities or locations. Uh, sometimes it wasn’t – it was actually worse because you, you traveled. You were what they called a tramp. You were – you, you’d go where they told you to go so the work didn’t necessarily stay in your hometown or, in, in your, you know close to your house so the shop was, uh, the fact it was probably a lot better in that respect even though you worked more or longer hours you were always – you always went to the same place, uh, within you know – you were closer to home. Marilyn Coulter: [35:17] Now as that – did you ever have to do things for family members or friends with your skill? Don Davis: Oh yeah. You mean as far as being an electrician? Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Don Davis: Of course. I mean, if, if somebody’s hotwired whether they’d lost power in their house that’s who they call, somebody they know that can help fix that and I would do that. Doreen Howard: [35:37] Don, um, does your skills, um, flow over into any hobbies that, that you may have? Don Davis: Uh, I was always a mechanical person whether it be an electrician or mechanical person, whatever. I, I like to build cars, um, I have flown airplanes for a lot of years, uh, I fish and hunt I guess like most but, uh, I guess my – probably my biggest hobby is building cars on the outside street rods if you would and I also do a little racing, str-, uh, things like that. Doreen Howard: [36:10] Um, I know you have, um, quite a-, an extensive collection of, of vehicles, um, and you had some, some older vehicles that you were restoring? Don Davis: I do. Doreen Howard: [36:25] Can you talk a little bit about, about that hobby? Don Davis: Oh golly, I have had a lot of cars over the years. I’ve – right now I have got a ’31 Ford Model A. I have got a ’70 Chevrolet Nova. I have got a ’50 Chevrolet pick-up, um, and I’ve probably got a clutch of another 30 cars or so tucked away in barns that I am gonna hopefully restore when I retire. [laughter]. Interviewers: [laughter]. Marilyn Coulter: 30 cars? Don Davis: Yes. [laughter]. Doreen Howard: [36:53] So the, the amount of time invested in the, the plant, ah, was, uh, very good to you as far as being able to, um, purchase a lot of… Don Davis: Which is that? Doreen Howard: …a lot of those extra hobbies, uh, if the estimates there? [laughter]. Don Davis: Um, yeah, there is some truth to that. I mean, first, you gotta remember, General Motors, you know, we were paid very well, uh, and again, I guess we, we spend what we make sometimes but I, I wasn’t that – you know – I didn’t waste or spend that much money on my cars. I, I, I’ve accrued these over the years so if I – everybody knows I do that, so if they, sa-, see a deal or they see a car for sale, they will always come say “hey Don, I saw this car, were you interested?” Well, I kinda wish they wouldn’t do that cause a lot of times I would just go buy it but, uh, you know, usually they are pretty good deals and that you know. My wife didn’t always think so but I did. Doreen Howard: [37:45] Um, ta-, touching base on some, some of the benefits that, uh, General Motors has offered to you over the years, um, what’s 1 of the most appreciated benefits that you ha-, that you think that we’ve received? Don Davis: Well, I have always thought that General Motors treated me very well, uh, that I always agree with everything that happened, no. Uh, I didn’t agree always with the philosophy of the management and things like that but bottom line was they were trying to provide a job for us an-, and I appreciated that. I worked hard for them and I think in the same token they took care of us. Uh, I am nervous about our future. I don’t, uh, particularly care to see the, the way the future looks for all of us especially at my point of life where I’m, you know, within months or weeks maybe of retiring. I, I am concerned, I’m very concerned about it but I thought, uh, that General Motors took, uh – was a good place to work. Doreen Howard: [38:46] Um, is – did – were you ever able to take advantage of the tuition assistance program when you were younger? You said that you had worked for General Motors and then left to go to school, was that through tuition assistance or did you just quit, an-, and then rehire back in? Don Davis: I, I did not use – I used some, uh, for some personal classes through General Motors but most of my college, uh, degree and all my other outside work, uh, I did with my GI benefits, my military benefits, uh, which worked fine because I was not employed by General Motors when I did go to college so my GI Bill took care of that, or took care of a lot of it. Doreen Howard: [39:26] And was – is there any difference in, um, that you’ve noticed between the hourly benefits and the salary benefits, is there anything, um, one way or the other that, that you see a difference in as far as benefits? Don Davis: Well, yes but by the same token, I mean it’s, it’s hard to let it – you got to look at it in the right way. Uh, salaried folks are paid, uh, some more monies, uh, by the same token they contribute more money back for some of their benefits and that’s the way it’s, it’s always been. It’s, it’s, it seems to, uh, be a little more on the salary side as far as their co-pays, things like that, uh, because it’s a, it’s – you know there is no contrast with salary, with salary folks, uh, they can, you know they can do that an-, and again General Motors is in serious trouble and I think so, you know, and they’ve went to the union and renegotiated certain things an-, and union, uh, has – is give – I, I will say give back some things too but for the most part salary is pretty top heavy when it comes to some of that. Doreen Howard: [40:39] Um, over the years that you’ve been there have, um, I know that during the holidays they would have like salaried Christmas parties offsite and in different venues like that. Can, can you talk about any of the, the types of, uh, things like, uh, I guess you know… Don Davis: Activities that they… Doreen Howard: …yeah, dinners, or, or any offsite activities that they did some of, some of the things that you got to go to? Don Davis: I would say that back in the 80s, the salary workforce was probably a tighter workforce, uh, they were more like the hourly folks. They had, uh – they were – everybody knew each other, they, they knew their families, they knew their children, um, but as the years went on, it seemed to – that, that changed and I guess I ca-, I don’t know why but it’s been a lot of years since the salaried, uh, side of General Motors has ever done any outside function such as Christmas parties, uh, and things like that. They just don’t do it. Marilyn Coulter: [41:46] Don, do you attribute any of that from once again having managers that are coming from the outside versus from coming up through the rank and file and being – having longevity to get? Don Davis: Yeah, uh, you know it used to be that if you hired or your parents hired into GM they retired from GM. You spent – everybody worked at GM. They were there for 30 years. Now, you see, especially in the management arena, you see a lot of younger folks coming in, uh, and their careers, uh, sometimes are very short. They don’t stay. They either, uh, get promoted out or they opt to go to another company, uh, there’s, there is not the closeness that there was, uh, in, in that side of the house. Doreen Howard: Doreen Howard. [42:32] Um, in recent years there’s been a lot of contract in, uh, supervision that has come in, how has that affected the workplace environment? Don Davis: Well, again, you know you look at the, at the way GM has done business, uh, a lot of the salary side, they wanted to reduce salary head count because of the expense, so, it was cheaper, uh, less money to contract those, those people in and some of them were pretty good supervisors but there was no, uh, no allegiance if you would to the company because they, they didn’t uh – they never worked for GM, they worked for the contract house in a different, uh, outlook on the way they did their, their jobs. Uh, they could pay people, they could make things happen but, uh, there was no, uh, again no allegiance an-, and that’s kinda too bad. Doreen Howard: [43:24] How, how do you think that that affected the outcome that the hourly people saw in the outcomes of the quality, etc. of the, of the vehicle itself with the contract supervision coming in? Don Davis: Well, I don’t want to say anything really bad about the contracts but there is really no ownership by allowin’ them. They were here to do a job, they were paid, uh, quite a bit less money, they didn’t enjoy the benefits and, uh, they knew that they – at a moment’s notice they could be terminated so they didn’t have the ownership if you would and, uh, I am sure that that filtered onto the folks that worked under them, uh, you know, you respect the person you work for, uh, by what they know and how they treat you an-, and what they can teach you an-, and if they’re just here to pay you an-, and go home then you don’t have that interaction. Doreen Howard: [44:18] Um, I guess one last question that, that I wanted to know is, um, uh, what’s some, let’s end on a, a happy note, what’s one of the fun things that you can remember doing or, or in the plant, something… Don Davis: Uh… Doreen Howard: …happy or funny… Don Davis: [laughter]. Doreen Howard: …that you can remember? Don Davis: You know, there are so many things over the years. I would tell you that I, I didn’t have any bad times at General Motors, uh, I managed, uh, for the most part, uh, very good people. They did a good job. They, they were dedicated to GM, uh, we had our parties, we had our social times out of the plant, uh, I have enjoyed workin’ at General Motors. I am going to miss it, I am going to, uh, Marilyn said earlier about the people, an-, and I guess I am going to miss that more than anything but you get a bond with the people you work with and again you’re with them more than you are your family members so you, you’ve got to get along but, uh, I, I’ve just totally enjoyed working for General Motors. Marilyn Coulter: [45:21] One last question from me, Marilyn, um, you said that you had a lot of vehicles, so you were always around a lot of cars and I know that General Motors here in Lansing, they have had a lot of, um, different opportunities to display our vintage cars or to display cars, do you ever participate in any of those promotional-like thi-, type things when we showed our vehicles to the public? Don Davis: I did. Yeah, I went, uh – I worked at the Detroit show, I have worked at some of the shows like that and yes. Marilyn Coulter: [45:51] What’s that like to go out and talk about what you do to the public? Don Davis: Well, you are proud of your product, uh, I, I hate to say the downside of that is is that we’ve, we, we only have 1 car anymore. You know, we, we’ve lost Chevrolet, Ponti-, Pontiac, Buick, I mean our parents grew up with a certain car, you drove a certain car, uh those days are gone, there, there’s no product allegiance anymore. It’s the same engine goes in every car, it’s just typically the same body style, uh, I think our engineering could be better but, uh, the earlier years, you know you, you picked a particular car, Oldsmobile, that’s where Lansing was famous for. I was a – I, I very much liked Oldsmobile so I was proud to represent that an-, and pass that on to the public. I enjoyed that. Marilyn Coulter: [46:38] So what about your own personal babies? Don Davis: [laughter]. Marilyn Coulter: [46:40] Did you ever get to display any of those? Don Davis: I do. I go to car shows all over the country. I go to, uh, I, I’m pretty much a Chevrolet guy so I have a lot of different styles of Chevrolets an-, and, uh, so, yeah, I go to, I go to car shows a-, all over the, all over the United States actually. Marilyn Coulter: [46:59] Is there 1 car that’s maybe your number 1 baby? Don Davis: [laughter] Oh, that’d be hard to say. I always say that they’re all that way and I am never going to sell a car but that’s not true either cause I do end up selling. My first car was a ’50 Chevrolet and I have restored one and I drove that for a lot of years and then somebody come along and wanted to buy it and I sold it so I guess, I guess I couldn’t say that any one particular car was my favorite. Marilyn Coulter: It’s been wonderful talking to you. [47:27] Was there anything that we didn’t touch on that you’d like to be sure to share? Don Davis: No, I enjoyed the interview, uh, the only thing I would say that, uh, was, that was probably the biggest difference here in Lansing too is that, that General Motors is not used to was the body shipping aspect and I am sure you guys have talked about in other interviews? Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Doreen Howard: [47:46] Actually we have-… Marilyn Coulter: You… Doreen Howard: …we really haven’t touched a lot on that… Marilyn Coulter: [47:48] …Could you talk a little bit about that? Don Davis: Is that right. Doreen Howard: … if you would like to elaborate on that a little bit more? Um, appreciate it… Don Davis: Well General Motors, as you know, uh, when the Fisher Body division such as, and even in Flint, uh, bodies were built by Fisher and then they were assembled at either Buick or, or a chassis in this case here in Lansing and I managed that activity for about 7 years and that was probably one of the most interesting jobs that I had and the fact, uh, it was an expensive operation. Uh, those trucks, those 7 trucks that we, that we’ve had on the road, uh, uh, day and night to haul our bodies was really an extension of the line, uh, no matter what the weather was, no matter what, uh, what you – what the moods of the drivers, you had to get the cars across town and those 7 drivers, if you want to think about it, really controlled all of Lansing because if anything happened to one of those drivers, they didn’t get the bodies across town, you shut all of Lansing down. So, and again, expense wise, it was very expensive, uh, it averaged about 3.5 million dollars a year just to run those trucks. So, it was very expensive, uh, but that was, uh – I mean you had to keep the trucks up 100%. We had to, uh, you know, uh, go by DOT regulations, we had to work with the local police agencies, the local governmental agencies as far as keeping the roads safe and open for us, uh, we had to get our traffic lights timed and things so we could get over there in a, you know, in a quick manner and it was just an interesting thing. Marilyn Coulter: [49:22] Um, Don, how many vehicles would be able to be placed on these trucks to be finished? Don Davis: You had, you had 7 cars, 7 bodies in each, in each truck, in each trailer and, uh, if you, you gotta put the numbers together, we averaged, uh, when we ran 2 shifts, uh, 5 days a week, we built 1000 cars a day, um, I’m sorry, we built 2000 cars a day, 500 a line when we were – on each line on each shift so that was 2000 cars a day and if you think about puttin’ in times 7 in a trailer and taking across town that was quite a undertaking. Marilyn Coulter: [50:02] So, being the captain of body and building of 1 vehicle in 2 different plants, the deal of the city and everything that was a major undertaking? Don Davis: It was. Uh, the drivers were very well-skilled drivers. Our equipment, we, we spared no money to keep the equipment up. We had, uh, the best of everything that we could buy to keep the trucks running whether it be tires, whether it be engines, whatever, uh, it’s just almost like – we treated it like an airplane almost. It was just – there was nothing that we wouldn’t do to keep those trucks running safely. Doreen Howard: Doreen Howard. [50:36] Um, was that process unique just to the Fisher Body facility or was there other, uh, General Motors plants that, that, uh, did the body hauling? Don Davis: I know that the la- – we were the last plant to do it, uh, in General Motors that will ever do it. Uh, I know that Flint did it up, up until the 70s, early 80s and then they – in fact we inherited their trucks. We took those over when they were still running gasoline trucks and went to diesel. Uh, but ge-, but Lansing was the last General Motors plant to ever do it. There are still, uh, Ford, Chrysler, I’m not sure, I know there is a Ford plant that does that, uh, in fact, they had to open up and make some bridges bigger to get some of their trucks, uh, down in Detroit area acrossed, which we never had to do, uh ta-, there’s General Motors will probably never do that again. That’s why they built their new plants under 1 roof. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. [51:36] But it still makes aga- – I guess it gives GM pride though to know that we were constantly getting awards and we were basically a dinosaur? Don Davis: We were. We absolutely were. But again, I think a lot of that goes back to the people an-, and their ideas and the way they did things, uh… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Don Davis: …they believed in what they did and they, uh, they did a good job at it. Marilyn Coulter: That’s great. [51:56] So, um, I guess I’d like to let, for anyone that’s going to be listening to this is going to be our manager, what would be the words that you’d say if they were coming into assembly plant? What’s the best thing that they could do? Don Davis: As a manager, uh, you mean as an hourly person coming in to a plant? Marilyn Coulter: Either one. Don Davis: Either one? Well, I’ve always respected the people that I work for and I think that they need to do the same. I think that they need to keep an open mind and they need to, to want to do what they are doing and uh, an-, and appreciate the, the fact that they’ve been given the best training and the best, uh, place to work an-, an-, and good wages, an-, and I think they uh, I think that they should do a good job for the plant. Marilyn Coulter: Thank you. Doreen Howard: Thank you. /lb