Sam Fountain discusses his career as a skilled trades millwright and UAW member at the Fisher Body plant in Lansing, MI Cheryl McCoy: Today is February 2, 2006. It's Thursday, approximately 9:15 a.m. We're preparing to interview Sam Fountain. First, we'll go around the table. Doug Rademacher: Doug Rademacher. Marilyn Coulter: Marilyn Coulter. John Fedewa: John Fedewa. Earl Nicholson: Earl Nicholson. Gary Judy: Gary Judy. Cheryl McCoy: [0:18] And this is Cheryl McCoy. We're at the Frank Dryer Greenhouse. Sam, will you please state your name and spell your last name for us? Sam Fountain: It's Samuel Fountain. Uh, my last name is spelled F-O-U-N-T-A-I-N. Cheryl McCoy: [0:31] And what is your address? Sam Fountain: It's 15764 Airport Road, Lansing, Michigan. Cheryl McCoy: [0:37] And are you married? Do you have children? Sam Fountain: Yes, I'm married. I have six children. Six boys. Cheryl McCoy: [0:44] And a little bit on your educational level. Sam Fountain: Uh, graduated from Alma High School. Uh, two years of college at LCC. Uh, that was to get my, uh, degree in, uh, skill trades. Cheryl McCoy: [1:00] Were you in the Military? Sam Fountain: I was in the military for two years, drafted. One of the biggest draft calls that they had in '66. Spent, uh, 19 months over in Germany. Uh, come out of the service as a E-5, sergeant. Um, that's about it... Cheryl McCoy: [1:23] Where were you born and raised? Sam Fountain: I was born in Lakeview, Michigan. Um, Kelsey Memorial Hospital. I was delivered by Dr. Kelsey himself. Uh, from there, I went to school at, uh, Lakeview Kindergarten. Uh, we moved to Blanchard. I went to school there, uh, second grade, [inaudible 1:45]. [coughing] Went to school there for 'bout one year and then, uh, we moved to, uh, Riverdale. I went through the eighth grade there and then, uh, I finished my high school in Alma High School. Cheryl McCoy: [2:03] And what did your parents do? Sam Fountain: They were farmers. Uh, we had, uh, two farms. Uh, we, uh, pretty much – that was all we did. We didn't have any outside, uh, income besides the farm, so that was – that was [it, bunch a 2:24] poor folks. [laughter] Cheryl McCoy: [2:30] Sam, where did you – what did you do before you hired in at Fisher Body? Sam Fountain: Uh, I had a job at, uh, Gibson's. I worked as a, um, on, on line – I, uh, put the door panels on the doors. And, um, I worked there a real short time before going into the service. Cheryl McCoy: [2:52] And when did you hire in? What is your seniority date at Fisher Body? Sam Fountain: I hired in, uh, September 4, 1968. Cheryl McCoy: [3:03] What made you seek out Fisher Body? Why did you go there? Sam Fountain: Um, a lotta my friends were workin' down here. And, uh, the money. I, uh, it was, it was probably one of the best paying jobs around. Cheryl McCoy: [3:18] Could you tell me a little about the process of hiring? Wh-, where did you put in [throat clearing] your application? Sam Fountain: Um, I went in and saw – I believe it was Jerry Brooks. And, uh, I put in my application and he wanted to know when I could get started. I mean, that was back in the day when you could hire in and go right to work, and if you didn't like it, you could quit, then you could come back in and hire in again. It, it was not like it is today, I guess, just, uh, completely different. Cheryl McCoy: [3:50] Can you tell us do you remember the first day once you were hired in, where they took you, what you did? Sam Fountain: Oh, yeah. [laughter] I went in a, a room that was probably, uh, 10 by 10 and there was probably 25 people in there. Uh, this little supervisor come in there. He was a general foreman, Marshall Dean. Little flat top, kind of a drill sergeant-type a guy. Comes in there and goes, "You, you, and you come with me." And he took'm out to wherever they needed help, and then he'd come back in there and, "You, you, and you," and that's the way they did it then. You know, you went out and got put on a job and, and you were on your way. And, uh, it was kinda scary at first but then you settled in with the people, you know, and stuff so it, it worked out fine. Cheryl McCoy: [4:42] And did he take you somewhere? Did he finally call your name and...? Sam Fountain: Oh, he didn't call me by name. They just, "You, you, and you." He, he grabbed you and away you went and then, uh, it was up to your supervisor to figure out who you were, I guess. And, you know, make sure you got paid and so forth. But, uh, he was just in there pickin' help and takin'm wherever he needed'm. Cheryl McCoy: [5:01] And where were you taken to? Sam Fountain: Um, trim. The – [though it's now 5:09] [M-trim]. And, um, I got probably one of the hardest jobs there was. [laughter] I think. I dunno. Cheryl McCoy: [5:18] What was that? Sam Fountain: I, uh, back in, in those days, they put, uh, instead of the power door locks, they put vacuum door locks. And you had a, a cluster a hoses that sit through a, a, door that you wouldn't think it would go through the hole in the door. And, uh, they run these back-to-back-to-back. And, uh, I was up and down that line like a yo-yo. Back then too, we were workin' like nine hours, [10-3s 5:49], you know, big day. So... Cheryl McCoy: [5:53] And so you started on the line. How long did you work on the line? Sam Fountain: I worked on the line for 10 years. And then, uh, there were jobs coming open in the trades. That's how I got into the trades. So I, I, uh, interviewed for that. Took their test and then, uh, after – oh, I don't know, five years, I guess, uh, I, I finally got into the trades. [They had openings 6:23] and gradually make it to the top of their list there before they accepted me. Cheryl McCoy: [6:30] So the 10 years [throat clearing] that you were on the line, did you do the, the door lock job the whole time? Sam Fountain: No. I, uh, I did – oh, I, I thought that there wasn't a job I couldn't do. I, I did all the way from – at that time, it was vinyl tops. I did all the way from vinyl tops clear to 3X where the finished product was. I did most everything. All, all there was to do. I was a utility man for the biggest part [coughing] of my career. Um, I was a relief man. Uh, you had to relieve like eight, ten people depending. Um, and then part of that time I did the, the, uh, um, doorware job and so forth, so I was mostly in the wiring. Marilyn Coulter: [7:19] Marilyn Coulter. Excuse me. Sam, could you please tell me what a utility man is? Sam Fountain: It was a person that if they needed some help in other areas or even in your own area, people missing or whatever, you, you jumped in and did that particular job the person was missing. Um [throat clearing], um, you're kind of a – utility person you do like, like any of the jobs, I guess. Marilyn Coulter: [7:47] So in order to be a utility person, you had to be able to learn jobs quickly? Sam Fountain: Yes. Yes, yes. Cheryl McCoy: [7:54] And also, could you explain what a relief man does? Sam Fountain: Uh, a relief man is, uh, a person that, um, gives each individual in your particular area, um, a relief so they could go to the bathroom, get something to eat, or whatever, whatever they – might wanna do in their free time, the 15 minutes or whatever that you give'm. Um... Cheryl McCoy: [8:23] Do you think that hiring in on the line before going into skilled trades helped you at all once you entered into the skilled trades arena? Sam Fountain: Um, yes. Because I knew most of the people that, that were on the line. Um, there's a little bit a friction between the trades people and the – and the, uh, production workers. Um, they think we just sat around drinking coffee all day but [throat clearing] that's not quite the case. [laughter] Um, I knew most of the people and they knew that I – my work, you know, the way I work and stuff and I, I didn't really have too much of a problem [with it 9:05]. Um... Cheryl McCoy: [9:07] Do you think that was the only friction between the production people and the trades people? Sam Fountain: We got paid more and they probably thought we did less work. I don't know. They, they didn't always see us when we're in the really nasty, you know, parts of the plant that, uh, that we were really bustin' our butts and, you know, weren't real crazy about bein' there but it had to be done to get, you know, production going again, so... Cheryl McCoy: Earl Nicholson. Earl Nicholson: [9:46] Now, we've talked about the friction. Let's talk about somethin' fun for a second. Let's talk about all the cool stuff that you skilled trade guys used to play with. You know, all the cranes and the, the tools and the, you know, what was your, what was your favorite, what was your favorite machine? Sam Fountain: Uh, you probably hit on most of'm there. The crane, the crane was fun to operate. Earl Nicholson: [10:07] Did you get to operate the crane? Sam Fountain: Oh, yes. Definitely. Earl Nicholson: [10:10] And was there – and did you – wha-, were you sent to school to operate that or was that a part of your original skill trades training? Sam Fountain: Um, you know, when we first hired in, it was kind of the – things weren't as, as strict as they are now, which is a good thing. But, I mean, the, the – OSHA and stuff, you know, cracking down on the, the – what you have to know and whatever, but, um, back then, you'd j-, if you were capable of running the crane, fork truck, whatever we had, um, you just jumped on and you did it, you know. And, um, but now you have to be schooled and so forth and all the safety aspects of it. But it, it's fun. You know, it's just, you know, you kinda take a little pride in bein' good at, you know, doin' your job, you know. It's like a person working on the line puttin', [coughing] you know, their parts on the car. You get good at it after a while. And it's... Earl Nicholson: [11:06] What was the largest tool you had in your toolbox? Sam Fountain: [sighing] My toolbox was pretty small because you have to carry that [laughter]. Earl Nicholson: [laughter] Cheryl McCoy: [laughter] Sam Fountain: Uh, I don't know. Um, had some pretty big hammers. Uh, uh, I don't know. Big crescent wrenches, stuff like that. [throat clearing]. Earl Nicholson: [11:25] Well, we're talkin' what, uh, four-inch, five-inch, six-inch? Twelve? Sam Fountain: Oh, I had a 16-inch crescent wrench. Um, the really big tools that – the really big tools that were – we used was, uh, jackhammers, you know. Um, but you didn't carry those. Those were – you had to go to the crib and chem them out. That's, you know, that's not a tool that you carry around. But those are kinda fun to run, you know. It's nothing like you see on TV. Uh, these things work you to death, you know, I mean, uh, not only shake ya, you, you have to move'm. That's the, that's the hard part of it, so... Gary Judy: [12:01] Gary Judy. Uh, you said you worked on the line, so you, you probably had friends that worked on the line, and bein' in millwrights, h-, how, you know, did your supervisors – how did they assign work and, and, uh, and did you have friends that worked on the line that asked you for special favors and, and what was it that they asked for, and how much of your workload was that, the special favors? Sam Fountain: Oh, yeah. You had special favors that your best buddies, you know, they want a locker built or, or something like that. And we'd – and then I had to have friends and, you know, 'cause we, we couldn't – bein' a millwright, you can't do it all. You've gotta have the, the tin smiths cut the steel for ya, the tin and so forth. And, um, yeah, you had buddies after ya all the time, you know, and our supervisors knew that. And we, we wouldn't get too crazy with it but, you know, you take care a your buddies and, you know, they, they, uh, they'd take care of you too when you're out on the lines. You got something goin' on, you know, plant's pretty big. I can't – I don't know it all, you know, and you'd go out there and, and say, "Hey, what, what do – what did you see here on this breakdown before it, it broke down, you know. And you kinda quiz'm a little bit and then you kinda sort it out, you so... Gary Judy: [13:17] Did, did they have a special name for those jobs that, that you did for friends on the side? Sam Fountain: Oh, uh, yeah. Government jobs. Is that what you're after? Uh [laughter]. Yeah, yeah. Yep [throat clearing], um, we did a lotta those, you know, things that, that we could, uh, do without, uh, jeopardizing our job, you know, so... Gary Judy: [13:41] D-, did you ever find, uh, that any supervisors ever give ya a hard time about doing extra... Sam Fountain: No, they, they understood. They, they were part of the people who'd come in and ask us for favors too, you know. Gary Judy: [13:54] Do you remember any jobs in particular that you did that kinda stood out on a government job? Sam Fountain: Oh, gosh. I don't know. Gary Judy: That were kinda strange or out of the, out of the ordinary? Sam Fountain: Uh, no. I don't, uh, nothin' really sticks out. Earl Nicholson: [14:10] Nobody – Earl Nicholson. Nobody ever asked you to, uh, to do a, a bronze stature or anything like that? [laughter] Nothing crazy, just toolboxes and... Sam Fountain: Yeah. Gary Judy: Or, or outside work, uh [throat clearing], supervisors wanting... Cheryl McCoy: Gary Judy. Gary Judy: ...yeah, to do outside work for somethin' that wasn't used in the plant maybe or...? Sam Fountain: Oh, yeah, yeah. Guys that had, you know, stuff for their garden tractors, whatever, you know, a part broke or somethin'. They'd bring it in and we'd weld it. Uh, stuff like that. Yeah, that, that happened all the time. Gary Judy: Yeah. Sam Fountain: And that's no big deal. Gary Judy: I, I had a few of those things done myself. But appreciated it too. Sam Fountain: Yeah. Gary Judy: [laughter] Sam Fountain: You know, that's the – they kinda... Gary Judy: Special tools that I needed or somethin'. Sam Fountain: Yep. That kinda keeps the people... Cheryl McCoy: Doug Rademacher. Doug Rademacher: [15:02] Doug Rademacher. Sam, I wanna go back. [throat clearing] You said your parents were farmers and, um, what kind of farm did they have? Did you run – you said all they did was farm. Did you do all – at that time, all your food? Do – did you grain and cattle or – what exactly did you farm? Sam Fountain: Yeah. We, we had, uh, a kind of a small dairy farm. Um, I think we milked – you have to realize, this was back in the 60s, but we, we milked maybe 20 cows, 25 cows. We had maybe 100 head of, uh, of, uh, young cattle running, uh, most of the time. And then in order to have that many cattle, you gotta feed'm, so we had our own corn, our own wheat, beans, all that stuff. We had, um, tryin' to think. I think a couple, 200 acres, something like that. I can't remember exactly, uh, how many acres were total [throat clearing] but we, we were pretty self-sufficient on, you know, the whole thing there. Doug Rademacher: [16:10] I wanna ask you, you said you worked at Gibson's. What did – what is, what is Gibson's, where's it located, and what did they make? Sam Fountain: Uh, Gibson's is a, uh, refrigerator plant where I worked. Um, I worked there a short time. I, I got drafted into the service from there but, um, um, that's in Greenville. Uh, at that particular time, I was living over, over by Lakeview and, uh, I would drive back and forth for them. I – my, my father worked there. That's kinda why I worked – hired in there. And then, uh, I got, uh, like I say, drafted and then, uh, I kept all my seniority, but when I, when I got, uh, outta the service, I, uh, elected to come to, uh, GM rather than go back there. Doug Rademacher: [16:59] Um, you worked the assembly line at Gibson's. Refrigerators are a large item and they go by – I don't know how many, uh, at a time, but you moved into the Fisher Body plant when you returned from the service, and those are big vehicles. And how – worked assembly line. Can you tell me the difference between a – what did it look like to walk out into a, a assembly line with cars? Can you give a description of that? Were you ready for that vision? Or... Sam Fountain: I really didn't know what I was, uh, getting into to come down here, but I had friends that worked at, at Fisher Body and I, uh, suspected that it would – couldn't be too much different than Gibson. It's a assembly line, you know, the parts move by ya, you assemble stuff, so it's, you know. Uh, the main reason I came over is, uh, was the money. The money wasn't quite there at, uh, Gibson's. Um, they weren't paying the, the same per hour rate, so I elected to hire in here at Fisher Body. Gary Judy: Gary Judy. Doug Rademacher: [18:01] One more, one more question. I wanted to know, did you continue to work the farm and help your family while you worked in the factory? Sam Fountain: Um, by that time, I, uh, my, uh, stepfather there had, uh, kind of semiretired from farming. He was still doing the, the raising the, um, corn and beans and stuff but he, he was out of the, uh, uh, dairy and, and so forth, young cattle. And, uh, so he was just, uh, kind of easing his way out of it, um, so he didn't really need our help. I, I drove from, uh, Alma back and forth to work but, uh, if I was working on the farm. No, I didn't, uh, I didn't do much [of that 18:47]. Gary Judy: [18:48] Gary Judy. Uh, you say you worked at Gibson's and then you came to Fisher Body. Wa-, was Gibson's a union plant? Sam Fountain: Yep. Yes, it was. Um, and as a matter of fact, I, I transferred my, um, um, initiation fee for the union, for the union from, uh, from Gibson's over here. It was, uh, I can't remember the exact numbers, but it was a – I point a difference in the, in the amount. I wanna say it was like $5 at Gibson's and it was like 20 bucks or somethin' like that here. And I, I got to transfer it over, so I, I transferred it over and didn't have to pay my initiation fee. Gary Judy: [19:29] Coming from another union plant, did you, did you notice much of a difference between the unions and, and the way the operated? Was one more militant than the other or, uh, was there much of a difference in the environment of the...? Sam Fountain: Um, I was a young person at the time when I was over in, uh, Gibson. I was only, uh, 19 years old. And, um, I really wasn't into the union and I only worked there a short time [throat clearing] before I, uh, went into the service, so I, I really didn't have much thinking of the, uh, how the union worked. I was just there for the money and it was a short period of time. Um, since I, I hired in with Fisher Body, yes, I – yeah, the union was, you know, come into play, you know, more so. Gary Judy: [20:17] Felt it was a lot stronger union at Fisher? Sam Fountain: Oh yeah, yeah. Cheryl McCoy: [20:21] Cheryl McCoy. Um, how old were you when you hired into Fisher Body? Sam Fountain: I was 21. Cheryl McCoy: [20:28] And do you remember some of the people that you hired in with? Sam Fountain: Oh yeah. Yeah. Um, want me to name names? [laughter] Cheryl McCoy: [20:37] No. Um, did any of them work right by you? Sam Fountain: Oh yes. Yes. Cheryl McCoy: [20:42] And you kept in contact with'm and...? Sam Fountain: Yes. Uh, a lot of'm. Um, some of'm are gone now. Uh, passed away. Some of'm, uh, got bigger and better jobs, you know. Um, but yeah, we used to, used to hang out. We used to have our – a good time, you know. We would work on the line and, and it, it seems that my bench was the card-playing bench. [laughter] So... Cheryl McCoy: [21:10] What kind of cards did you play? Sam Fountain: Tunk. Cheryl McCoy: [21:14] And was that at breaks or lunch or...? Sam Fountain: Um, pretty much all the time. Cheryl McCoy: All the time? Sam Fountain: [laughter] Cheryl McCoy: Whenever the line broke down or anything? Sam Fountain: [laughter] Cheryl McCoy: [21:25] What did you do for lunch with some of – back when you were on production? Sam Fountain: Oh, well, I drove from up north so, uh, pretty much carried my lunch. And in those days, you had the wagon, um, that came around, you'd get a, you know, snack [off that 21:43] so I – we didn't – I don't remember going out very much, um, you know, across the street or whatever. Cheryl McCoy: [21:53] Do you remember when you hired in, did anybody do a initiation prank on you? Did you see anybody else get pranked or did you prank anybody? Sam Fountain: Oh, yeah. I, uh, being not a very big person, and I wasn't a very big person at that time, um, we used to get – I used to get thrown in the trunk of the cars as they're goin' down the line. And this one particular gentleman was about 6'6", weighed about 300 pounds, and he threw me in there a lot of the times. I remember times where, uh, another, uh, relief man, uh, taped me to a column [laughter] with this black – looks like duct tape. I mean, you're there to stay [laughter] until somebody [lets 22:45] you. I've been, uh, stuck in, uh, the 50-gallon, uh, trash containers, uh, the – that's what they used for trash containers, stuck in there butt first and you can't get outta those either. [laughter] Talk about pranks, oh yeah, I used to... Cheryl McCoy: [23:05] And this was not mean, these were just...? Sam Fountain: No. This was just all in fun, you know. No, everybody was – it was kinda, you know, people come in, it's kinda like your home away from home. It was kind of a, you know, your other family, I guess. So...yeah, there was, there was nothin', you know, they weren't doin' this to be, you know, mean, or hurt you or anything so... Cheryl McCoy: [23:31] So how would you get out of some of these situations? Sam Fountain: Oh, you had buddies that felt sorry for ya and they'd [laughter] let you out or your, or your job's goin' down the line and not getting' done, so they would, they would help you out some and then help you catch back up and stuff. Yeah, it was, it was fun, a lot of fun. Cheryl McCoy: [23:46] So it was kind of a – they would prank you but yet they would make it so you didn't get in trouble? Sam Fountain: Right. Exactly. Yeah. Cheryl McCoy: [23:54] So there was no disciplinary measures for any of those? Sam Fountain: No. No. Marilyn Coulter: [23:59] Marilyn Coulter. So what kind of pranks – if those were done to you, what types of things did you do to other people? Sam Fountain: Oh, I – like I say, bein' a small person, I kinda knew my, uh, limitations. I, I don't remember really getting anybody back. Um, I, I don't – you know, I mighta helped, you know, uh, myself and another person help grab a guy and tape him to a column or somethin' but not – I didn't do anything myself, you know, by myself, so... Marilyn Coulter: [23:31] So it was a nice family, uh, the environment was fun? Sam Fountain: Oh yeah. Yeah, it was fun. Marilyn Coulter: [24:36] And these were things that happened when the line would go down or for breaks or things or...? Sam Fountain: Well, this, this would have happened when, when the line's runnin', you know. I mean, uh... Marilyn Coulter: [Inaudible 24:49] pass the time? Sam Fountain: Oh yeah. Marilyn Coulter: [24:51] What types of hours were you working back then? Sam Fountain: I remember working a lotta 10-hour days. Um, uh, 10-3. I, I remember, um, that when you worked 10-3, uh, the people – I was working days for quite a long time and people couldn't get in – the other shift couldn't get in the parking lot because the day shift hadn't left yet. That's how bad it was. I mean, you know, close – and the, and the line would stop for like six minutes or somethin' and then people would, you know, just swap jobs. Marilyn Coulter: [25:24] Do you remember about how many people were working back then as far as numbers? In the thousands or something? Sam Fountain: I wanna say at one time we had like 6500. Marilyn Coulter: [25:33] So about 6500 people. So you were working days and you were from Alma? Sam Fountain: Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: [25:37] And you drove back and forth in. Did you come in by yourself? Did you carpool? [coughing] Sam Fountain: Well, this was back when the gas was cheap, but we still carpooled. Uh, we had like, uh, five guys that would, uh, we'd take turns driving from there. We'd park at the 300 Bowl in, uh, Alma, and, and, uh, drive, you know, the 40, 50 miles whatever. Marilyn Coulter: [26:01] Now, is this something that you pretty much continued throughout your career at Fisher Body? Sam Fountain: I moved down here to Lansing, so, uh... Marilyn Coulter: Oh. Sam Fountain: ...and so I didn't have to make that long drive. Marilyn Coulter: [26:14] Mm. So what was it like when you had to commute in the win-, in the weather and things like that? Sam Fountain: Oh, it was, it was terrible. I mean... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Sam Fountain: ...luckily, most of it was, was main highways. But I remember a lot a times goin' home it's, it was like a two-track going down 27. I mean, it was, it was really bad. Marilyn Coulter: [26:32] Mm-hm. Uh, so how long have you lived in Lansing area? Sam Fountain: Um, 1971. Marilyn Coulter: Okay. So you've been here for a while. Sam Fountain: Yeah. We bought a house, uh, just – in fact, this was just across the street from the, uh, Fisher Body. Marilyn Coulter: Across the street from Fisher Body? Sam Fountain: Yeah, on Genesee Drive. So... Marilyn Coulter: [26:54] S-, so what's that like to live in a community that's that close to a factory? Sam Fountain: [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: Can you tell us about that? Sam Fountain: Oh, I got, uh, I got a lot of, uh, remarks from my buddies sayin', "Oh, I wouldn't live in the big city," and I said, "Hey," I said, "I'm home and in my house before you can get the frost scraped off your windshield." [laughter] And I, I really cared, you know, that's time, you know, outta your life that you're travelin' on the road. And, uh, I really, you know, that helped me. I, I enjoyed living here in town. So... Marilyn Coulter: [27:28] So were there ever like noises, big noises comin' from the factory? What was it like to have it right in your community? Did it ever bother your community? Did it help your community? Sam Fountain: Um, I didn't, uh, mind living, uh, close. Uh, noises, no. I – that was the main concern of my buddies sayin', "Oh, you're not gonna like it down there. It's gonna be too noisy." And I, I never noticed it. Um, I like living close. I'd, I'd come home for lunch. Um, I, uh, I don't know. I just enjoyed it. I mean, it was my choice to live that close. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Sam Fountain: I mean, I could've lived down a little farther, but I, I enjoyed livin', livin' close to the plant. Marilyn Coulter: [28:14] So now, I know one other question I want – I know you said you went across the street sometime for lunch. Across the street to where? Sam Fountain: Oh, to the bar? Uh, over to Harry's. Marilyn Coulter: Oh, Harry's. And, uh, was that on Michigan, was it on Saginaw? Sam Fountain: That's on Verlinden. Marilyn Coulter: Oh. Sam Fountain: So... Marilyn Coulter: [28:31] S-, so did they have food there also? Sam Fountain: Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: Or was it just... Sam Fountain: Yep. Food, drinks. Marilyn Coulter: [28:37] So what kind of things were done there? Was it just for lunch? Did you go there after lu-, after work? Was there any things that you and your friends from work did there? Sam Fountain: Um, when I was in the trades, we'd go over there quite regular. Um, um, you'd go over and just kind of, you know, a release from the, from the plant, you know. I mean, just to get outside and, uh, kick back with the, with the guys for – and far as after work, no, I didn't, I didn't go there after work, so... Earl Nicholson: [29:11] Uh, Earl Nicholson here. Uh, you mentioned the trades. You were – when – how long were you working production? And when, and when did you s-, how long – how many years did you work in production before you, you went to skilled trades? Sam Fountain: I worked, uh, production for, uh, 10 years. Uh, I went in trades in 1978, November of '78. Earl Nicholson: [29:33] Was that – is that – was that a momentous decision? I mean, was that, you know, one of the, one of those life-altering decisions that you look back on and, and you're happy with or sad at or...? Sam Fountain: I, I thought about it for a long time. I, I'm – because the trades were working seven days a week and, and stuff like that. But I, I had thought, you know, that was a stepping stone to, to better myself. And, um, I, I made the, you know, the decision and, uh, I, I have no regrets, you know. I was, uh... Gary Judy: [30:08] Gary Judy. So you were married at the time before you went on trades and, and if so, how did your wife feel about that if you were? I mean, seven days a week, that's a, that's a lotta committed time to the factory. Sam Fountain: Um, yes, I was married at the time. And the only, the only thing I can say about the seven days a week, it was only eight hours a day. Um, I remember when I first went in the trades, I worked – I didn't take any vacations. I, I could probably count on one hand the days that I took off or didn't work. I mean, I was there after the money and, uh, my wife was okay with it. Um, I mean, we lived real comfortable but, um, I, I worked pretty hard for what I got too. Gary Judy: [31:01] Did you notice, uh, people that you work with in trades, uh, that had problems because of the hours you guys work and the days, all the time you put in? Sam Fountain: Uh, we – I can't really say that we had, uh, it was kinda like a game, you know. I mean, uh, you worked seven days a week and that was just the way it was, you know. I mean, there... Gary Judy: [31:26] There wasn't a higher divorce rate or anything like that? Sam Fountain: Well, probably. I got divorced in that, that time too, but I don't know if... Gary Judy: Whether it was... Sam Fountain: ...that was the cause of it. Gary Judy: Mm. Sam Fountain: Um, yeah. I supposed I had that stress, you know, but I don't know. It was just, uh, you know, it's part of your career, you know, and it's things that you do. Marilyn Coulter: [31:49] Sam, Marilyn Coulter. Question, I know that they say there's a d-, a divorce rate inside from workin' hard. And that's with any job, actually. But, um, do you know, um, did your wife work? Did she work in the plant? Was she familiar with people in the plant? Sam Fountain: My, uh, wife – my first wife did not work. Uh, she didn't work in the plant. She didn't, she didn't work at all. Um, she stayed home. Um, at that time, I had, uh, four young children. Um, she stayed home with'm, with the children. So, I thought that that was her job to, you know, as long as I was trying to make some money. Marilyn Coulter: [32:33] So there's a second wife? Sam Fountain: Yes. I got divorced in, in, in '87, and then I married a, uh, a lady from work. Um, she had two children, so we have six boys altogether. Marilyn Coulter: [Inaudible 32:51]. Sam Fountain: They range from, uh, 33 down to 21. Marilyn Coulter: [32:56] So work also brings a lotta, lotta romances also. Yes? Sam Fountain: [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: Is that for – what a lot of people who work at [inaudible 33:05] say? Sam Fountain: Yeah. Yeah. Probably. I don't know. Marilyn Coulter: [33:07] What was that like to date and marry somebody that you work with? Sam Fountain: Oh... Marilyn Coulter: Was it difficult, easy? Sam Fountain: I don't know. Um, she didn't work there very, uh, uh, very long. She, um, uh, had a, uh, health issue and, uh, took a buyout. And, uh, but, um, as far as dating and stuff. Nah – yeah, I'm a busy man. I mean, uh, I worked a lotta hours. I, you know... Marilyn Coulter: But a lot of your coworkers have met their spouses right there [inaudible 33:43]. Sam Fountain: Yeah. I, I – yeah. A few people I know, yeah. Mm-hm. That's true. Marilyn Coulter: [33:50] So, um, what department do you, you hired into trim, right? Sam Fountain: Yes, uh-huh. Marilyn Coulter: [33:56] And so – and you were in trim and you were in the skilled trades also. Were there many women in trim? Were there many women in skilled trades and how did that work for you? Sam Fountain: Um, in trim, yeah, I'd say there was, there was a few women, you know. I mean, not – when I first hired in, you know, you didn't see that many women, but yeah, as the years progressed on, there was more women that hired in and so forth. But, um, in the trades, um, there's not very many women. We had one, uh, uh, female, uh, millwright. Uh, she didn't work there – well, I take that back. We got – we had another female millwright. I forgot about her too, but there's like two fem-, female millwrights, which is kinda uncommon 'cause that's pretty heavy work, you know. Not sayin' they can't do it, but it's pretty demanding, you know. Um, I don't know about the other trades. They don't have that many females in there either. So hopefully that answered your question. [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: [35:02] Yeah. Well, that – well, it, it's different. Um, in terms of working with'm, um, how did that – when you first hired in, there wasn't that many and then how did that change your environment? Was there things that you guys had to quit doin'? Would – how did – would it make your environment better? What do you think about it? Sam Fountain: Um, I worked, I worked with both, both the female millwrights, um, both of'm for quite some time. Uh, they're just like any other partner, you know. You, you, you know what they're good at and you know what you're good at, and you just try to, you know, do your best between the two of ya on a breakdown and everything, on the job, the assignment that you got. Marilyn Coulter: Okay. I wanna question – I know you said you had friends on the line. Did – and you ma-, obviously married one also. Sam Fountain: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: [35:53] Did any of your other, uh, friendships extend outside the plant, and, uh, do they still exist today? Sam Fountain: Um...I, I don't know. It, uh, I was tryin' to think of any people that I, I do things with on the outside, uh, that work on the line. I, I have but not, uh, you know, regular basis. Marilyn Coulter: Or in your trade. Sam Fountain: Um, [laughter] I, I've drawn a blank right now. I don't, I don't, uh... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. [I just have one last question 36:36], did you find that, um, skill trades folks are different or, or any difference between line workers in terms of their closeness and their comradery from working with people seven days a week and spendin' so much time with it. Did you get closer to them as opposed to the people that you worked with on the line? Sam Fountain: It's – I think it's the same either way. I – y-, you know, I mean, the production people when I worked with'm, you know, you get close to people, you know. People come in there and they tell ya what's goin' on in their lives and stuff. It's the same way with the, with the trades people. Uh, the trades people are – y-, y-, yeah, you see'm more often, but it's the same – I think it's the same environment, you know. You talk about what, what's goin' on in your life on the outside and so forth. Cheryl McCoy: Earl Nicholson. Earl Nicholson: [37:28] Uh, Earl, Earl Nicholson. Uh, you touched on that sub-, we touched on the subject of women in the, in the factory. When you first hired in, they weren't really there. Um, minorities in general, there, there – was there any – when, when – initially, we're talking basically, uh, mostly white male organization skilled trades. You had minorities coming into skilled trades in the 70s. Women probably in the 80s, you know, was there, was there any – I don't know [if I wanna say 38:00] resentment but if there – was there any, was there resistance to that change amongst the, amongst the groups, amongst the different trades? Sam Fountain: I...I didn't see it if there was. I don't know. Um, I mean... Earl Nicholson: [38:19] Was it basically as long as a man could pull his weight he was accepted? Sam Fountain: Well, you know, it's just like it is in society, you know. Um, people are better at certain things and, you know, and y-, I can't really nail it down sayin' yeah, if a guy could pull his own weight. You kinda, you know, like I'm not a very big person. You're, obviously, a bigger person than I am, so if we have something that has to be moved, you're gonna be doin' more lifting than I am, you know. I mean, just kinda generalizing the situation, but I, I don't know. We worked around it. I mean, uh, I, I didn't see any – it's like a big family. I mean, I, I don't know. I'm, I'm a pretty easygoin' guy, and I don't – I, I guess maybe I didn't, you know, see any of that or didn't wanna see it or whatever. I, I, I don't like to, you know stir the pot and, and, uh, start things. Earl Nicholson: Well, so let's, let's, let's get into the issue of supervision for just a second. Sam Fountain: Okay. Earl Nicholson: [39:17] When, when, when you started – when they – when we started seeing female, uh, supervisors, was there, was there, uh, was there resistance to that? Sam Fountain: Um... Earl Nicholson: Females in leadership positions. Sam Fountain: I, I'll tell ya, I'll tell ya one thing, and, and, and then in the trades that, that probably a lotta people didn't see, you know, they're gonna tell us what they want done, and that was kinda the – and, and the general thing is kinda how it went. They, they'd tell us, "Okay, this is your job,” you know, and then they kinda left it up to us to do it the best way we thought. So if it – whether it be male or female sayin', "Oh, well, I want it done this way and these are the steps you're gonna do it," that didn't really happen, you know? I mean, u-, unless there was some direction from way above tellin'm that, that, that this is the way it's gotta happen but, um... Earl Nicholson: [40:15] Wa-, was there any resentment to [laughter] accepting a check from a woman or a minority? Sam Fountain: Not from me. [laughter] No. I... Earl Nicholson: Well, okay. From, from the people you worked around? Sam Fountain: I – no. I... Earl Nicholson: Didn't see that? Sam Fountain: No. I, uh, it – no. [throat clearing] No, I don't... Cheryl McCoy: [40:30] Cheryl McCoy. You mentioned that you spent most of your time on day shift. Did you spend any time on second shift? Sam Fountain: Well, uh, that's not exactly true. I spent a lot – quite a lot of time on afternoons. Cheryl McCoy: Oh, did you? Sam Fountain: Yeah, yeah. I, I – when I hired in, uh, on production, I spent probably the first year on days. After that, I, I, uh, went to nights. And then when I went in the trades I was on – bein' an apprentice, I was on all three shifts, but I, I ended up on afternoons for the most part. And then toward the, the latter part of my career, I was on days. So... Cheryl McCoy: [41:11] Could you tell us a little bit about the differences in the shifts that you saw? What were some of the...? Sam Fountain: Well, on third shift in the trades, uh, you know, you go how can these guys sleep like they do, but I tell ya what, third shift is not for me. I, I, I could sleep too. I mean, I – and I'm not one to say, hey, yeah. I'm gonna lay down here and take a nap during, you know, the time that you're supposed to be workin', but you, you get – you f-, your body physically gets to the part where, you know, if you sit down, you're, you know, you're gonna conk out. It's that, that's – you're not made to stay up at all hours of the night. At least my body isn't, so... Cheryl McCoy: [41:54] So there's a lotta sleeping going on, on third shift? Sam Fountain: Yes, there is. Yes, there is. And on the thirds shift, uh, people stretch out during their breaks and so forth. Yeah. And that's the biggest difference. On day shift, you don't see that. Afternoons, mm, yeah, you might see a little bit of it but, you know, it's... Earl Nicholson: [42:11] Uh, Earl Nicholson here. On the third shift, again, I interrupted Cheryl. Wanna go ahead and answer? Cheryl McCoy: No, go ahead. Earl Nicholson: On the third shift, uh, there was no production on third shift, uh, production [runnin' 42:24] third shift? Sam Fountain: Uh, part, part of the shift there, there shoulda been production runnin'. Earl Nicholson: Well, yeah. Okay. Part of the shift? Okay. Sam Fountain: Yeah. Earl Nicholson: But what, what primarily were people on third shift doing? Sam Fountain: Um, in the trades, uh, their, their main, uh, job was the, the maintenance end of it. The inspections and so forth. Um, making sure everything was, you know, that's the only time they got to, got to check it, you know. That and the weekends to, to do their maintenance. Um, yeah, they had people that, that, um, covered the lines, the, the breakdowns and so forth when the production was running but, uh, yeah, after the line goes down, they'd do – either get something, some type of job that, uh, fabricating something or, or, you know, doin', uh, inspections. Cheryl McCoy: [43:21] Let's take a break. Sam, why did you choose millwright over a d-, another trade? Sam Fountain: Well, I thought, uh, probably that best fit me. I, uh, I didn't want anything to do with electrical. Um, I probably coulda become a pipe fitter maybe but, uh, I don't know. A millwright does a lot of fabricating and so forth. I kinda liked that so... Cheryl McCoy: [43:49] What else does a millwright do? What did you do that pertained to production? Sam Fountain: Um, our job for production was to keep the line running. Uh, if we had any breakdowns, uh, the conveyor chain breaking or, um, jobs coming off the line, any really physical work, the millwrights pretty much had a handle on that. Uh, um, like I always told everybody th-, that asked me what the millwrights did, I said, "Anything that the other trades didn't wanna do." We kinda did all the crappy stuff that, you know, the hard work part of it, I'd say, but... Cheryl McCoy: [44:27] So you're a small guy. How, how tall are you? Sam Fountain: I'm about, uh, 5'5" if I stand up straight. Um, when I hired in the shop there, I probably weighed 140 pounds. I – of course, I've porked out a little bit since then. I – I'm up probably what, 180? [coughing] But, uh, I'm not a very big person. Cheryl McCoy: You said that one of the things a millwright does is they put the jobs back on the line if they come off. Sam Fountain: Right. Cheryl McCoy: [44:55] Why would they come off and how often did that happen? Sam Fountain: Um, it seems like it happens pretty regular. Um... [laughter] Uh, something'd get in the conveyor, uh, bolt or something. Um, jobs come [inaudible 45:12] and if a job comes un-, unlatched from the, from the chain, uh, they will not make a turn. They other job behind it will push into it and push the, the body truck right off the line. So – and it's our job to put it on the best way we know how. We have these big orange stick that we carry on our trucks called idiot sticks. Lotta times, that's what we end up using because you can't get in there to, uh, get a fork truck or something, you know, of that nature to put it back on the line. Marilyn Coulter: [45:41] Oh, Sam, Marilyn Coulter. [coughing] How – about how big were these idiot sticks? Sam Fountain: Uh, almost a – probably six, seven feet long, um, and probably, uh, four to five inches thick at, at the biggest part of'm. Marilyn Coulter: [45:57] And how many millwrights would it take to get a car back on, on, uh...? Sam Fountain: As many as we could get. Uh, we'd, we'd, we work in pairs. Um, and, uh, if we know we have a bad breakdown, uh, we'll call on our buddies to come out from other areas or whatever and give us a hand, so maybe four to six millwrights to get, uh, cars on, on the line. Or if we have a pileup, you know, other places and stuff we... Marilyn Coulter: [46:27] Is that a pretty dangerous thing to do? Sam Fountain: Yeah, it can be. Yes. Cheryl McCoy: [46:32] Cheryl McCoy. What was the biggest pileup you ever saw? Sam Fountain: Uh, I have seen several big pileups. Uh, the, the – probably the scariest one that I've seen is in our body shipping area. Um, there's a big decline. It's probably – I'm gonna say 25 feet, uh, down a pretty steep decline. And the chain has broken there several times and, and probably have 10 to 15 cars that, that, uh, pile up there. And, and the only bad thing with that is you cannot get in there with equipment to, uh, right the situation. You have to get the cars outta the way to fix the chain and so forth. And this is pretty much buried in, in a confined space where you can't get the big equipment in there that you need to do it, so it's all manual labor. Uh, you have to, uh, hook chains on and secure the jobs so they don't, you know, get away from, from ya and, uh, hurt someone or cause more of a pile up. Cheryl McCoy: [47:46] Do those jobs get damaged and are no longer any good? Or... Sam Fountain: Oh yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. Usually when the, when, uh, cars are, uh, uh, piled up like that, uh, they're, they're basically junk. So we, uh, that's another thing we have to carry – haul'm outside and they go to the scrap metal. Cheryl McCoy: [48:06] Did you ever see anybody get hurt in one of these pileups? Sam Fountain: Mm, no. Uh, we're pretty much lookin' out for each other. Um, it's, it's pretty serious business there when you're, when you're in a situation like that so... Cheryl McCoy: [48:20] What does one of these, uh, I don't know even if you know this, but the car, the carrier, the whole unit, what does that weigh? Sam Fountain: I'm guessing probably three to four thousand pounds. The, the body truck itself, I think, is around 2000 pounds and then depending on how far the car is assembled, you know, it's maybe another 1000 pounds or more. The car body itself there. Cheryl McCoy: Gary Judy. Gary Judy: [48:51] So Sam, did – you never saw any production employees get pinched between those carriers or anybody get hurt to where you had to responds and, and release – get'm released from it or...? Sam Fountain: I, I could tell ya one situation, um, I saw a, a production person get, get, uh, injured. Not, not as bad as I thought they would be but, uh, I was, uh, um, on my way up to, uh, 3X and we carry these two-way radios, and the dispatch called and, and, uh, said that we have a, a production person trapped between two, two of these body trucks a-, carriers. And, uh, I happened to be almost to that particular location and, and, uh, went up there and this, uh, gentleman was working – he was fitting the trunk lids and, uh, he was working between the two body carriers. And there's a, uh, where the two conveyers come together. Well, he [coughing] didn't pay attention to it and he, uh, um, become trapped between the two, uh, carriers. And I went up there and I had to, um, we have a what we call a blitz buggy that we drive and, uh, it has a torch and welder and so forth on it. I went up there and I cut the, uh, dog off the conveyor chain to release the, the tension on the, on the body truck and, uh, it freed him but, uh... Gary Judy: [50:19] So how bad was he hurt? Did he break a leg or...? Sam Fountain: He, he was just trapped in there. He had some bruises on his shins and stuff, but I – when I first heard the call, um, these conveyers can cut ya right in two. They have no mercy on a human person and, and, uh, I thought that, that his – probably his legs were crushed, and it wasn't the case. [throat clearing] He just, uh, he was just trapped and he couldn't get out. It just had'm and he, and he was a very lucky man. So that's probably one of the things that I've run across to, you know, where people got hurt. Cheryl McCoy: Earl Nicholson. Earl Nicholson: [50:55] Uh, yeah, um, I've heard rumors that the chain – that somebody had told me that the chain had 10,000 pounds PSI on it. Is that, is that close? Sam Fountain: Um... Earl Nicholson: I mean, that's a tremendous amount of energy. Sam Fountain: I'm gonna say that you could be very well, um, close in that, that, that – yeah. It, it, it, uh, it does a lot of destructive things. Um, but we have safety measures that shouldn't let it do some of the stuff that it does but, uh, yeah, it, it, it's a pretty, pretty big chain and yeah, it takes a lot to break'm. Earl Nicholson: [51:38] Have you ever seen that chain do anything crazy? Sam Fountain: Um, yes, I have. Yep. I've seen it jump, jerk around, um, break, uh, yeah, I've pretty much seen it all. It's, uh, yeah, you – go on enough breakdowns, you see a lotta, lotta stuff that's crazy. Earl Nicholson: [51:56] H-, okay. Now, this, this question's about, um, supervision. Uh, you guys are a professional group a guys, you know. But, um, how important is it to have a qualified supervisor? Sam Fountain: It's – like you said the-, we, we supposedly are professionals. A-, a-, I mean, every job's different but we kinda know what, what we [coughing] wanna do with certain situations and having the right supervisor's a big difference. You have some supervisors that don't, don't have a clue and they, they want you to get in there and, and their, their main objective's getting' the line running but, you know, you have to do it on a safe, you know, you don't wanna go in there and, and, uh, [coughing] like... Earl Nicholson: [52:47] So, so when the supervisor – you're on, on the scene, supervisor – and your maintenance supervisor shows up, do they ask you what the situation is or do they just go and look for themselves? Sam Fountain: They ask you and they, they're lookin' too. Uh, uh, a lot of the supervisors, uh, the, the better supervisors are, are trades people themselves, so they, they have some idea. Earl Nicholson: [53:11] So they had a, they had a, a, l-, a level of trust in their people, that confidence? Sam Fountain: Yeah. And they know, and they know which people are, are capable of doin' this and which people – it's like, like I said before in the society, you know, people are better at certain things than they are at other things and they know the level of ability of people that they got on the job, uh, to do, uh, to handle this stuff, you know. Um... Earl Nicholson: [53:36] Ever had an incidence of having a super-, an incompetent? Sam Fountain: Um, yeah. Earl Nicholson: Anybody you wanna mention by name? [laughter] Sam Fountain: We've had, uh, we've some upper management that had some different ideas about, about stuff. Um, Leonard [Barma 53:50], does that name [laughter]? He, uh, he had us, uh, do some, uh, crazy things. Uh, he had the line down for like three and a half hours. And my question was do we have another part to go in here, and they kinda didn't hear me or didn't wanna hear me. He said, "Let's get this going," and I said, "Do we have another part to replace this?" And they said, "Let's get – let's do it this way, let's do it that way." And he was, he was running the show. He said, "I want you to weld this. I want you to do this," and we did it. And it still – the, the conveyor would not run. And they ended up sending production home and then they said, "Well, let's go up and get this other part, put it in." It only took us a half an hour to put it in. I mean, it's like one of – our supervisor said, "Yeah, it took you guys three and a half hours to prove this man wrong." [laughter] And that was kinda the way [laughter] this conversation went. [laughter] Gary Judy: [54:51] Gary Judy. Uh, so bein' a millwright, maybe you could tell me if this was true or not. Uh, could they actually speed the chain up? Because we always used to hear around production and it felt like it a lotta times that they would speed the chain up and you would be running on the line. Was that actually possible for them to speed that chain up, turn it up from what it was supposed to be to get more jobs out? Sam Fountain: That's, that's not a millwright job but to answer your question, yes, that is possible. Gary Judy: [55:23] Do you think they did that in the plant? Sam Fountain: I, I'll tell ya how it works. There's – in the control room, there's a, um, I can't remember the name of it, but what it looks like is the old style, the analog gas pumps, and that's the mechanism that they use. And it's just a matter of turning the, the – to make it run faster and this is what controls the conveyers. And, yes, they can. Gary Judy: [55:50] Do you think they actually did that? Sam Fountain: I – like I say, it's not my job. I don't, I don't know. Electricians are capable of doin' that, all they had to do is go in there and do it. Um, I know for a fact that, uh, one of our conveyers that they used to manipulate, it was a conveyor that, that, uh, at the very end of the line that [throat clearing] took'm up into, um, five second where they – the marshalling area was there. I know – [inaudible 56:20] the name of the conveyor. I know that they used to manipulate that, but it was, it was – they used speed it up but the only problem with that they – and the only reason we knew it, it was sped up was because they'd speed that up and then you had to pull the, the, the jobs off this conveyor with pullers. And the pullers weren't running fast enough to take away the jobs so, consequently, it held the line. So they, they lost whatever they were trying to gain. And that used to be a, a, a little game we played between the first and second shift. Uh, the first shift would speed it up, second shift would slow it down because they would go, "Hey, we lost three, four minutes," becau-, and it's because they sped it up. I mean, it don't, it don't sound right, but that's the way it worked. It, it was – you can only get so many cars off the end of that line. And then if they couldn't move'm, then it held the line. And when, when that conveyor stopped, all production stops. But yeah, they could speed it up if that's the answer [laughter] you're lookin' for. [laughter] Whether they did or not... Cheryl McCoy: [57:27] Cheryl McCoy. How much conveyor was in that plant? Sam Fountain: Um, I... Cheryl McCoy: A guess is good enough. Sam Fountain: Several miles. Cheryl McCoy: Miles? Sam Fountain: Miles, yeah. I, I don't remember. I don't – I've seen things on it but, yeah, there's, there's more conveyor than the average person would ever think that's in there. Different styles of conveyor too. Cheryl McCoy: [57:54] Earl Nicholson asked you a question earlier about, uh, PSI. What is PSI? Sam Fountain: PSI? Cheryl McCoy: Yeah. Sam Fountain: Pounds, PSI – pounds per square inch. Cheryl McCoy: I, I wasn't clear of that. I didn't know. Sam Fountain: Now, I'm tryin' to think of it. Earl Nicholson: [58:14] Yeah, Earl Nicholson here. Um, I, I like to ask all the fun questions. Everybody else is all serious. What is the most dirtiest – now, I'm sayin' this because when you look at all the other skill trade guys, I mean, they're usually pretty clean, but when you see the, the, the millwrights come, you know, sometimes they're just filthy. And I was kinda curious what is the most dirtiest, most nastiest, most unpleasant experience that you've had in the factory? Sam Fountain: Uh, I would have to say when I worked in paint. Um, the, um, primary booths, stuff like that. Uh, ovens. I've been in the ovens. Uh, it is so dirty, uh, I mean, not dirty, but the paint is piled up on like on the hand rails of the – going up into the ovens, up on the stair-, uh, stairways goin up there. Anything you touch, you got this paint on ya. I mean, and it's so sticky that you can walk almost outta your shoes. And if you get in a breakdown in that situation, you are – you've got it all over ya. And that stuff will not come off. I mean, you have to scrub it off. That's, you know, grease, yeah, we get that. We get that just, you know, doing anything, but, uh, the paint is really nasty. Yeah, that's gotta be the dirtiest job. Marilyn Coulter: [59:42] Sam, Marilyn Coulter. Question, um, that was your dirtiest job. Can you tell me about maybe about one a the most happiest moments you had in the plant? Sam Fountain: Oh, my retirement. [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: Your retirement. [What is 59:56]? Sam Fountain: [laughter] Probably 50 guys showed up for my retirement [throat clearing] when I retired, yeah. Marilyn Coulter: [60:00] So what did they do for your retirement? Sam Fountain: Oh, the, the common thing for the, for the – our guys is, uh, we buy, uh, pizzas, [Deluca's 60:08] pizzas. And you'd get to invite your family in and, and then you really how many friends you have because there's a ton a people that show up. You know, it's, it's, it's pretty, you know... Marilyn Coulter: [60:19] So they had a party. Did they give you any kind of gift, any kind of memorabilia? Did they do anything for you? Sam Fountain: Um, you get a plaque. Um, they have a book that they pass around, uh, all the, all the people that know ya sign it. Yeah, that's – makes ya feel like that you're, uh, you accomplished something, I guess. Marilyn Coulter: [60:40] During your time there, were you ever active with your union? Sam Fountain: Um, I went over and voted but far as going to the meetings, I probably, I, I probably didn't go to as many meetings as I could've but, uh, I've been to meetings before. Marilyn Coulter: [60:59] Okay. Having come to a close, I wanna know, um, they often called Lansing Fisher Body, capital of quality. Um, what do [inaudible 61:08] – what do you think made it, made our workforce special, made us a cut above the rest and made us the capital of quality? Sam Fountain: I, uh, I don't know. I, uh, you know, our relationship between the – I think management and, and the workers, I think is, is – I don't know about the other plants, but I think we have a pretty good working relationship. Um, I mean, obviously, you know, back when I hired in, we used to have a, a board out front. And we were like in the top three, um, you know. And this is, this plant was, uh, one of the plants that still trucked our bodies. And we were still makin' money even trucking the bodies, um, so I don't know. I just kinda believe that, uh, a lotta people took a lotta pride in what they did. I mean... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Sam Fountain: ...I, I don't know. I – when I hired in, you know, uh, that's what they told ya, you know. This, this place comes first, and that's the way I took it. [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: [62:12] Um, Sam, you hired in what, 1968, yes? Sam Fountain: Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: And you've been retired for how long? Sam Fountain: Uh, since June. Marilyn Coulter: [62:22] Since June. And you live in the community? Sam Fountain: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: [62:25] So the place that you worked, fed your family off of, you know, built product, and lived in the community. Now, you're retired, but the Fisher Body, which changed in the last [throat clearing] [inaudible 62:40] now is closed and it's gonna be getting' torn down. And it's, it's a part of your community. Can – it's a place where you work. Can you tell us how that makes you feel and what do you think about it? Sam Fountain: Well, I'll tell ya the, um, the day I retired, course production had, had already, uh, ceased here. And, uh, the last day I was at work, um, I, I knew all this was comin' to an end and I, I was walkin' out. I, I tell ya what, uh, y-, you know, it's just a building but, I – hey, I spent, uh, almost 37 years there. And I was walkin' out and I'm not a real emotional person, but gosh, that, uh, [laughter] that's kinda your life, you know. And I, I walked out – I thought – I did some hard thinkin' when I was walkin' out the door to be honest with ya so... Earl Nicholson: Fantastic. Sam Fountain: [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: Thank you. Doug Rademacher: Yep. Cheryl McCoy: Thank you, Sam. John Fedewa: Thank you, Sam. Gary Judy: Thanks, Sam. Doug Rademacher: Thank you very much. You have anything that we, uh, didn't ask you that you wanna add? Sam Fountain: Mm, no. Earl Nicholson: All right. Marilyn Coulter: Thank you. /tl