Kirk Harris discusses his career as a skilled trades toolmaker and UAW member at the Fisher Body plant in Lansing, MI [clicking] Doreen Howard: [3 0:00]. Doug Rademacher: Good morning. I’m Doug Rademacher. I’m here with the Fisher Body Historical Team and we’re here today with Kirk D. Harris and he is a, uh, toolmaker tradesman and we are in the Fisher Body Plant and it is approximately 11:20 on this October 11th, 2005. Good morning. [0:25] Uh, Kirk, would you please tell your name and address for the record? Kirk Harris: Uh, Kirk D. Harris. Um, live at 7490 Round Lake Road and that’s in Laingsburg, Michigan. Doug Rademacher: Okay. [0:40] And are you married? Kirk Harris: Yes. Doug Rademacher: [0:42] Do you have any children? Kirk Harris: I have two, uh, children; uh, a boy, uh, that’s, uh, 25 years old and a daughter that’s, uh, 23 years old. Doug Rademacher: [0:53] Do you have any grandchildren? Kirk Harris: I have one grandchild. Female: [Inaudible 0:58]. Doug Rademacher: Congratulations. [0:59] Uh, would you tell us a little bit about your education? Kirk Harris: Well, uh, I course graduated from high school and, um, and then when I got into the tra-, or I attended a, a few classes at, uh, Mid Michigan Community College, which is up in Harrison, uh, before I got hired in. So I, I started, I started in Auto, Auto, uh, Mechanics curricliu-, curriculum up there, um, before, before I got called to come work at, uh, at General Motors in Lansing, uh, at Plant 1, um, Local 652. Uh, that’s where I originally hired in at, but, um, I started y-, I was just waiting to be called and I wanted to get somethin’ started so I started that, but, uh, those plans changed real quick. [laughter] Doreen Howard: [1:56] What was your original hire date? Kirk Harris: Um, it was July 26th of ’73. So it’s been adjusted a little bit from the date that I had on my, on my, uh, form there, or sheet, data sheet, um, because I was laid off for a period of time, after 10 months. Originally hired in at Plant 2, um, but yeah. Axle Plant. We made the rear differentials for the, for the cars. Linda Johnson: Now you said you went to s-, to high school up north. Kirk Harris: Yeah. Linda Johnson: [2:36] What brought you to the Lansing area? Kirk Harris: Well, my dad, uh, originally was a toolmaker, or a tool designer, at, uh, Building 40 in 652 Local here in Lansing and he retired in, uh, in September of ’69, 1969, and, um, I was, uh, I was a, uh, freshman in high school, so we moved, uh, my freshman year up to, uh, Farwell and I finished my last 3 years a high school up there... Doreen Howard: [Hm 3:11]. Kirk Harris: ...and graduated from Farwell High School, and my brother was still working here as a toolmaker, Building 40, and, uh – the other local. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: The other local. Kirk Harris: And, uh, we, uh – see, he, um, ya know, my dad working here and, and him, they both kinda prompted me to come down and put my application in, so I did. Doreen Howard: [distorted audio] [A little bit a 3:40] history to give ya a little bit of idea of what, what the auto industry was like. Kirk Harris: Mm-hm. Doreen Howard: [3:48] Tell, tell us about when you hired in here and your first day comin’ in here. Kirk Harris: Um, at Fisher Body or, or... Doreen Howard: Here at Fisher Body. Kirk Harris: Oh. Doreen Howard: [Yeah 3:58]. Kirk Harris: Um, well, I, I transferred over here a lot later, uh, in ninety-, in ’98, summer of ’98. I took a Paragraph 96, uh, transfer with the instrumental panel assembly line... Doreen Howard: Mm. Kirk Harris: ...when they moved that from, uh, Plant 1 over at Fisher Body. So I brought [pen clicking] that, a Paragraph 97, or 96 allows me to bring all my seniority with me. So I was fortunate, very fortunate there. Doreen Howard: Mm. Linda Johnson: [4:36] What’s the – what – had – did you find, um, different between the facility that you were at and then coming into Fisher Body? Kirk Harris: Well, my first impression was the-, well, smaller, course, physical. Ya know, the first thing ya see when ya walk in the door is the, ya know, the physical size or, or, ya know, and the, and the people. The people seemed to be a lot more friendly. It was more like a, uh, I don't know what ya wanna say, uh, a big family-type atmosphere more so. They were – they greeted you [clicking] more when you came, came in the door and the people you’d never even – that was my first day and I never even knew any a the people and they... Doreen Howard: [Mm 5:31]. Kirk Harris: ...they said good morning even though they didn’t know me, which I thought was, was somethin’ that really was one of the first impressions I had that really stuck in my mind. Linda Johnson: [Mm 5:40]. [5:42] What, what department did you go to? Kirk Harris: Well I went to, um, uh, General Assembly – well, we called it Trim at the time. Um, and I went to work on, uh, instrument panel, uh, assembly line, the fixture in there that we had and brought over here and some of it was new, so – or a lot of it was new... Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. Kirk Harris: ...so. Linda Johnson: [6:05] So was the work similar to the work that you had done at the other [inaudible 6:11]? Kirk Harris: Um, well, yes and no. I mean, it was, uh, the same type of work, but because we were introducing the GMX 130, um, in, in ’99 – well, the ’99 model year; ’98 we started the – so we were in the process a changing. So that made the jobs change a little bit because it was a different product, ya know, it was a redesigned product, so it was different than, than it would be if we’d just moved everything right over, uh. Doreen Howard: [6:47] So you, you came in here on the line. Now your current job is a toolmaker. Kirk Harris: Well, I d-, I came over here as a toolmaker. Doreen Howard: You came over here... Kirk Harris: Yeah. Doreen Howard: ...as a toolmaker. Kirk Harris: Yup. I [inaudible 6:58]... Doreen Howard: [6:58] You were just assigned to the, the Trim Department? Kirk Harris: Yes. Doreen Howard: Okay. Kirk Harris: When I first came. Doreen Howard: [Okay 7:03]. Kirk Harris: Well, that was where the, the, uh, job content that they moved from Plant 1 to Fisher Body at the time, ya know, came to that area, so I moved with that, with that job content. Linda Johnson: [7:20] So... Kirk Harris: [Yeah 7:20]. Linda Johnson: ...what is a toolmaker? Kirk Harris: Uh, a toolmaker, it really has a couple a different categories in the toolmaker trade. Um, you have the toolmaker/jig repair was what they were called until we combined trades. Um, it’s where you, you – when you’re assigned to the floor like I was, you more or less repair the existing equipment. When you’re a toolmaker assigned to the tool room, you have more job responsibilities, like – they change, they – you’re actually, um, making and ordering parts to make new tools that, that they’re gonna use in the production or the f-, the, in the Trim area or the Body area or somethin’. You, you, you’re basically given a stack a prints and then you order the steel and, and, uh, actually make it into a finished product, whether you have to have help from a lathe operator or mill operator, um, you assign them and then the job, the part, to make the part, and then you assemble it and you make it work the way the engineer intended it to be... Linda Johnson: [8:36] So... Kirk Harris: ...[inaudible 8:37]. Linda Johnson: ...so you made tools that assisted the production... Kirk Harris: Right. Yeah. And... Linda Johnson: ...[inaudible 8:41]? Kirk Harris: ...that helps make their job easier, um, inserting, ya know, inserting grommets or making a grommet tool to insert grommets in areas or that are hard to get at or makin’ it easier to push, uh, a push clip on with, uh, an assist, or as complex as making a tool that they pick up an instrument panel off the conveyor and install it in the car. So it’s, it’s a wide-range, uh – that’s what kinda makes a toolmaker’s trade interesting and, ya know, you have different projects that you’re given and they usually end up, ya know, bein’, being something that, uh, is kinda unique or you make just 2 or 4 of and, ya know, it’s somethin’ that, uh, let’s you be creative a little bit too. So... Doreen Howard: Mm. Kirk Harris: ...it kinda – it’s real interesting. Doug Rademacher: [9:37] Kirk, you said your dad was a toolmaker, your brother was a... Kirk Harris: A... Doug Rademacher: ...toolmaker... Kirk Harris: ...designer. Doug Rademacher: A designer. Marilyn Coulter: Designer. Kirk Harris: Yup, [inaudible 9:44]. Doug Rademacher: [9:43] And your brother was a toolmaker? Kirk Harris: Yes. Doug Rademacher: And you were a toolmaker. Kirk Harris: Yeah. Doug Rademacher: [9:47] Now you said you have a son? Kirk Harris: Yes. Doug Rademacher: Has he considered toolmaking... Kirk Harris: Um... Doug Rademacher: ...or is it... Kirk Harris: ...no... Doug Rademacher: ...[inaudible 9:53]? Kirk Harris: ...he’s, uh, he’s into the medical field now. He’s studying to be a registered nurse. Doreen Howard: Oh. Kirk Harris: So... Doreen Howard: That’s [inaudible 9:59]. Kirk Harris: ...little break in the, uh, tradition there. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: [10:04] Is there any other family members that work at Fisher Body in your, in your family or your... Kirk Harris: Um... Doug Rademacher: ...cousins or? Kirk Harris: ...not in, not in my immediate family. Doug Rademacher: Oh. Kirk Harris: My brother, my older brother, did work at, uh, um – I don’t think he ever worked at Fisher Body, but he worked at Plant 1, uh, for a short period a time during the summer when he was getting his degree in, uh, engineering at Michigan State. So he worked here a few – a couple a summers, ya know, for, uh, summer help. Doug Rademacher: [10:43] So your experience here at Fisher Body, you said you were able to utilize the bargained, uh, language that was negotiated, um, [papers shuffling] is the 96 move [papers shuffling] inaudible 10:55]... Kirk Harris: [Mm 10:55]. Doug Rademacher: ...when over half of your work goes, you had to travel with it. That [tap], [so you 11:00] found the – did you ever, uh, regret coming over to Fisher Body or has it been a... Kirk Harris: No, it was a, it was a pretty good experience. Um, I’ve made couple a moves, um, back and forth between – not, not – well, I came from Local 1618 where I originally hired in at, over to 652 Local, and there was a little bit of – it seemed like a little bit of, uh, apathy or, ya know, resentment, I should say, towards the people that came from Plant 2 to 652, but when I came from that lo-, from 652 Local over here at Fisher Body, 602 Local, there didn’t really seem to be that resentment. There was, I mean, even people that I had passed in seniority [tap] with that move, uh, um, didn’t really, I mean, never really had the resentment that I thought they would have. Doug Rademacher: [12:07] They respected your seniority and... Kirk Harris: Well... Doug Rademacher: ...[inaudible 12:09]? Kirk Harris: ...yeah, yes. Ya know, there was a few s-, well there was a couple, maybe 1 or 2 people outta the whole, ‘cause I went ahead of almost everybody, everybody here when I came over. I was #9, I think, on the seniority list outta 48 or 50 when I first came over here, so I went by a lotta people. [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: [Oh 12:30]. Kirk Harris: And, uh, there was only a couple of per-, people that really, ya know, ya know, made a verbal, uh, res-, ya know... Doreen Howard: [Inaudible 12:44]. Kirk Harris: ...verbally resented, ya know, resented me. Th-, I mean there was probably some that were silent, but [laughter], ya know, they still, they still treated me with respect and, ya know, and everything. So I thought, I think it was also the fact that a lot of the toolmakers have come from other plants. Ya know, they’ve come from Col-, [Coldwater 13:06] Road, ya know, Fisher in Coldwater Road and Flint and Detroit and, and there were even some, ya know, some guys from Grand Rapids and, and Kalamazoo that I’ve worked with. So they’re, they’re all, ya know, a big melting pot here it seems like. So I think that, that helped too, because they’d all been in my shoes at one time or another, ya know? And uh... Doreen Howard: [13:30] Like other skilled trades, did the toolmakers work in pairs? Kirk Harris: Not, not really, unless it was a large project. Um, you, you more or less worked, uh, worked on a project by yourself, um, unless it was heavy enough or, you know, uh, physically it was demanding that there was 2 people there to, to help. Um, there’s a lotta those projects that were, ya know, big rails and stuff where it actually taking 2 per-, 2 people to install’m. So there’s plenty – there many a times you work, uh, work as a pair or as a team of 3 or 4 people. Doug Rademacher: [14:18] You’ve worked at different assembly – or different plants, you said, so what did you see as far as when you came to Fisher Body, how did the, uh, tradespeople treat men and women of different color in the trades [group 14:37]? Kirk Harris: I, I never really saw any – I mean, it, it, it really – over here it seemed like that we were all one, one big family. I mean, I never really saw any, any type of racism whatsoever. Um, it was more of a, I don’t wanna say a country atmosphere, but it was more of a small – what would you call, a small-town atmosphere compared to a large city atmosphere. That would be the, the bigge-, the best comparison I could see. And, and just like in small cities, um, racism doesn’t seem to be an issue as much as it is in larger cities. Marilyn Coulter: [15:32] Uh, um, Kurt, are there many women toolmakers? Kirk Harris: Uh, over here, there, there is none. Uh, there were, there were a couple a women toolmakers that I never had a chance to work with over here. Uh, where I did come from, ya know, where I did, where I – I shoulda [laughter] [worded 15:54] that better so it sounds better. Uh, where I came, the plant I came from, yes, there was, uh, there was 4 or 5, uh, women... Marilyn Coulter: Women toolmakers? Kirk Harris: ...women toolmakers I worked with. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. [16:07] So off [kinda 16:08] bein’ a toolmaker, were you able to like help the operators on the line in s-, terms of making tools for them to work and use on the line? Kirk Harris: Over here more so, because, uh, my job assignment was to, ya know, to service the, the tools that were on the line. So that was my main – one of my main, uh, job, uh, requirements was to try to, to make, uh, the, uh, the production people’s... Marilyn Coulter: [Mm-hm 16:41]. Kirk Harris: ...job easier. That’s was, that was part of our, actually part of our job, really. Marilyn Coulter: [16:47] So did the oper-... Kirk Harris: I felt. Marilyn Coulter: ...did the operators help you figure out how to make a tool that would be good for... Kirk Harris: Oh yes. Marilyn Coulter: ...them? Kirk Harris: Yeah, they, they had a lotta good suggestions, a lotta very good suggestions that you could, could use, uh, on what they thought they needed, ya know? Then I would take it back and, and try to refine it so it would, ya know, be a durable tool and... Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kirk Harris: ...be something that they could still use. Doug Rademacher: [17:17] This plant’s recognized as Fisher Body, but it’s had many names. When you came over, was it the BOC, Buick-Olds-Cadillac Group, or was it already the Lansing Car Assembly? LCA. Kirk Harris: Well, really, it was in transition, I think, more or less. Uh, I think they’d, they’d, they’d taken down the sign. I don’t remember what it said when I first came over here, but they switched the signs out by [inaudible 17:44] Street, so [laughter] whatever that was, the last switch they made out there. I think it said BOC... Marilyn Coulter: [Mm 17:50]. Kirk Harris: ...and then it was shortly after I came over here that they, that they did make the change, so then it was – so it was right, right, I came over here right about at the, the transition time. I think that was when they made that transition, when we went to the GMX 130. Doug Rademacher: [18:06] And what do, what do you call the plant today? Kirk Harris: Plant 6. [laughter] Kirk Harris: [laughter] That’s what everybody refers to it as, so I, uh, ya know, it’s kind of everybody has their own name, I think. Lotta people still call it Fisher Body. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: [18:23] [I was tryin’ to say 18:23]... [laughter] Doug Rademacher: ...I was wondering when you put your transfer in, did you say that you were goin’ to Fisher Body or... Kirk Harris: Yes. Doug Rademacher: [‘Cause 18:28]... Kirk Harris: Yes. That’s, that’s what it... Doug Rademacher: ...‘cause that’s... Kirk Harris: ...that’s what it said on it, as a matter a fact; uh, Fisher Body Plant 6 I think is what the, the paperwork actually said on it. Marilyn Coulter: [18:36] So now when you came into the tools and stuff like that, [inaudible 18:39] that the other plant had, did they have like, um, initiations for the tools when you came in? Kirk Harris: Not, not really. No, no... Marilyn Coulter: [No? 18:51] Kirk Harris: ...it was... Marilyn Coulter: [There were no 18:51] pranks or anything that were played on you? Kirk Harris: I’m sorry? Marilyn Coulter: No pranks were played on you when you came over? Kirk Harris: No. No, um, no, they greeted me real, uh, ya know, [just like 19:00] [clicking] real – a friend, ya know what I mean? They, they, there was nothin’ that – like I say, there was... Marilyn Coulter: Or no funny jokes? Kirk Harris: ...no, uh, apathy really whatsoever or, ya know, resentment or, or any type of initiation, or, no... Marilyn Coulter: [Oh, okay 19:18]. Kirk Harris: ...never saw anything. Doug Rademacher: [19:20] What was the supervisory style from the Fisher Body compared to where the other plants that you’d worked? Kirk Harris: Um, the, um, the people I was introduced to when I first came over here – well and a course my first context was with, was with the union, um, the, the, uh – we called it the Chairman of the Shop Committee. What’s it called? Zone. You use the term zone here. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Kirk Harris: And, uh, and the, the committeemen, floor committeemen, were the first 2 people I met, and that was a, a lotta difference, um, there. And then, they took me to the management group and, uh, I could tell right then it was gonna be a lot, a lot better as far as, uh, not usin’, using their authority, tryin’ to use their, their, uh, management skills more than, than just, ya know, usin’ their authority and the, the iron-fisted – I was more, more used to the, um, I’m the, I’m the boss, I’m your manager, you’re gonna do what I say and your opinion doesn’t count-type management, and when you came over here, they more or less said, “You’re gonna be the toolmaker in General Assembly. Now, we wanna give you whatever you need to do your job and we want ya you to do it in the way you feel needs to be done.” So it was a completely different job, I – or a completely different management style, I feel. Linda Johnson: Lot more respect for the employee and their... Kirk Harris: And their opinion. Linda Johnson: ...opinions? Kirk Harris: Yeah. Have a lot more respect for, um, your ability to create what you needed to do, ya know, or you needed to do to get the job done. Um, where, where I came f-, where I originally came from was they gave you something and they’d say, “We want you to do it this way,” which was always never... well, which... Linda Johnson: [laughter] Kirk Harris: ...I mean, 90 percent a the time, it was the correct way, and it was probably more efficient, but... Linda Johnson: [But it never was 21:50]... Kirk Harris: ...over here they, they let you – even though you may around, ya know, you got different routes of, of the way you can get to your end... Linda Johnson: Mm-hm. Kirk Harris: ...end result. You can either go – it’s hard to explain. It’s, ya know, you’ve got so many different ways you can accomplish what you want to accomplish. So they let you do as long as you did the right jo-, or did the right thing or came up with the right thing was good. Doreen Howard: [22:22] Was there a particular supervisor that you could say was your favorite or, or... Kirk Harris: Well... Doreen Howard: ...and employee that you [sniffing] really enjoyed... Kirk Harris: ...the, the supervisor... Doreen Howard: ...[the comradery 22:35]... Kirk Harris: ...that I had when I first came in was [Joe Trevino 22:37] and, uh, he, he was the supervisor that I, that I first met and worked for and he was the one that, ya know, I got, that I got the impression from, and [Don Davis 22:52] were the first 2 people that I met. Well, Don Davis was actually the first person, and then he called Joe Trevino to come up and take me to my, to my work area, and, um, they, they actually greeted me like, like, like friends, not like sittin’ behind a desk and, ya know, had their big iron fist out, ready to tell me what to do. Uh, they actually greeted you more like a, like a friend or a brother or whatever rather than, ya know – and they, they helped you out and they, ya know, told you whatever you need that was – like I said before, they’re the – ya know, whatever, whatever you need to get your job done, they were able to – ya know, they said, “If we can, we’ll provide it for ya”[papers shuffling] and they did too. [It was real 23:41], a lot more helpful, I feel. Doreen Howard: [23:45] Did you, um – you said you found a lot of comradery with the employees. Was there any particular, um, coworker that, that you did a lot of things here in the plant or outside a the plant with? Kirk Harris: Well, I’ve always – I’ve never been one to socialize very much outside a the plant with any of my coworkers. I, I don’t know if it was never because I had anything in common with any of’m that I really knew well. Um, there’s been a few people that I’ve met outside but I, I’ve never really associated much with the people that I worked with, uh, social, a social gathering. Um, but as far as being in here, there’s been a couple a toolmakers that really were – went outta their way to be nice to me when I first came in, even though one person was the one that I had just passed by only a couple a weeks’ seniority, and he was the person that Joe Trevino put me with to, um, to break me in, so to speak, or to, to help me learn my job or job responsibilities. Doreen Howard: Mm. Kirk Harris: He was probably the closest friend I had in here. Doreen Howard: Mm. [25:07] Did you ever get involved in any of the, um, dinners or lunchtime activities with s-... Doug Rademacher: [Oh yeah 25:16]. Doreen Howard: ...with anyone here? Kirk Harris: Yeah. Doreen Howard: What, what kinda things did ya do? Kirk Harris: Oh, just mostly like the retirement dinners or, or, or that. Um, we’d go out, uh, we’d go out every – for some special occasion, we’d go over to the bar, go over to Harry’s for lunchtime meal, and, uh, that was about it. Doreen Howard: That’s a pretty common activities amongst all the... Kirk Harris: Yeah. [laughter] Doreen Howard: ...all the different groups that we’ve talked with so far. Kirk Harris: Yup. Yeah, Harry’s was pretty, pretty good, uh, gathering place for everybody. Doreen Howard: [26:02] Now, in your time that you were here, um, could-, s-, talk a little bit about the changes that you’ve seen happen as far as, um, your job and the, the facility itself, some a the changes that, that you’ve noticed over the, the timeframe that you’ve been here. Kirk Harris: Well, the, uh – when I first got here, I noticed that, that, um, Sanitation seemed to, to keep the plant real nice; a lot, a lot better than what was used to. A course I was used to a, uh, machining operation more, more so than, than what, uh, we have over here, so it was a dirtier operation over at Plant 1 and some a the areas I’d gotten moved to when we started our reductions over there, like the Engine Plant, uh, Plant 5, was a lot dirtier, so. But Plant... what Sanitation always seemed to – that’s – well, the thing I noticed that really stuck in my mind was sealing the floors; we never did that. And Sanitation, every, uh, weekend it seemed like they were, ya know, cleaning and s-, and sealing different areas of the plant, and it was on a rut-, ongoing cycle, but we kinda, in the last year or 2, dropped that, ya know, with the, with the closing of the plant and everything. So that kinda went away. I – that’s one thing that stuck in my mind that was one a the first things when I first came over here that I really thought was kinda... Marilyn Coulter: [27:38] Kirk... Kirk Harris: ...neat. Marilyn Coulter: ...for the people who may not know what that is, could you explain what sealin’ the floor with Sanitation [is 27:43]? Kirk Harris: Well, what they would do is they would come in on a weekend and they would, they would rope off an area, an [aisle, like 27:51], mostly the aisle ways. They, they did some, some work areas and that, but then they would take a scrubber, one of our power scrubbers, and they would clean the floor and try to get it as clean as possible and, and free of grease and oil and everything, and then they would go over it and seal it with a, almost looked like a lacquer it was so shiny, uh, and then, the, the aisle ways every – I always liked those aisle ways after they did that. They seemed brighter and, and, um, and actually made ya feel a little bit better, I felt, ya know, because it was actually clean and shiny and – didn’t look new, but it was different, I guess. [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: Looks clean and shiny. Doreen Howard: [28:42] Um, how do you feel when you look around now, being one a the few people that are still here in the, in the building and, and all the machines and the people and most a the stuff is, is gone? How – what, what are your feelings on the building and what you see around you now? Kirk Harris: Well, I have a hard time, I have a hard time comin’ back into the plant. Uh, the first, first time I came back in, um, when we shut down, June 6th – or May 6th, I, I stayed on, um, working, I didn’t take a layoff or anything, and I went – they moved me right into the, uh, Early Involvement, or the, the s-, Delta Project. So, I was away for a few weeks when, uh – with the schooling and everything that they send you through and that they started out with my GMS right away, so, and that. So I, I was away from probably 3 weeks without comin’ back in, and then when I came in, it was almost like walking – it w-, it felt, to me, like a graveyard, really. I mean, there was a lot of, of – it was dark and, and dingy and there wasn’t, ya know, the – even the people that you’d – that were here that you met, they weren’t as happy and smiling or anything like it was. It was almost like somebody had died is what it – the way it kinda felt, really. Or something, I should say; somebody, not someth-, or not somebody but something had died. And, ya know, it was just a, a sad time. Marilyn Coulter: [30:37] So... Kirk Harris: It felt a lot different. Marilyn Coulter: ...Kirk, you said that you were working with the Delta Project. Kirk Harris: Yes. Marilyn Coulter: And that is-, the Delta Project is what? Kirk Harris: Is the new plant... Marilyn Coulter: Okay. Kirk Harris: ...[the, uh 30:49]... Marilyn Coulter: [30:49] And so, um, you’re gonna be – so how does it feel to be able to maybe close the doors of one plant while you open the doors of another? Kirk Harris: Well, it was, it was a big help to go right to that program because, ya know, you didn’t have that feeling a loss for very long ‘cause you knew that there was a new beginning right around the corner. So, uh, it feels, it feels good to be able to, to start something that soon after the closing a the other plant – or the, ya know, this plant, but, um, it – I still, I still have bittersweet memories a the old, the old style, which – and everything. It’s gonna – it’s kinda hard to, to get into the, the feel a things. As soon as you start seeing, I guess I see the first car go down the line out there, first vehicle go down the line out there, I think I’ll really know that somethin’s happening, but. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Linda Johnson: [32:02] Will you be in the same job title... Kirk Harris: Yes. Linda Johnson: ...at the new facility? Kirk Harris: Yes. Yeah, I’ll be a toolmaker out there. Linda Johnson: [32:09] And will your job responsibilities be the same? Will they change in any way from what you, um, had h-, in this facility? Kirk Harris: Well, I think with the, ya know, introduction of, um, GMS, which is, uh, Global Manufacturing System, all of our jobs are prolly gonna change a lot, it looks like. Um, it’s gonna be hard to see – as a matter a fact, right after this meeting, I have another meeting to go to on our job, what our, um, our team leader and group leader jobs are gonna look like. Uh, that’s what the meeting is I’m gonna go to after this one. So and that’s all gonna be redefined as a lot different and everything, so it’s gonna be a big change. Doug Rademacher: [32:59] Did you ever have, through your trade, a project that, uh, you remember as, say, your best job? Somethin’ that you did or created outta your toolmaking skills that you really saw the rewards with for somebody in the plant? Kirk Harris: Well, uh, you mean over here or at, or at my – any of the toolmaking? Doug Rademacher: Well, preferably here. Kirk Harris: [Right 33:23]. Doug Rademacher: Is there anything ya did here or? Kirk Harris: Well, some a the, uh – we’ve made some, we’ve made some refinements and stuff in machines for the Body Shop, and I was involved with working through overtime, uh, with working on those, and, and some a the, the machines we created or, or enhancements for machines that we created were, were real interesting, uh, but the best, the most satisfying [tap] job I had was over at, uh, at Plant 1, 652, was working in Experimental. That was really – worked in Experimental for about 7 or 8 years before they moved that to Pontiac, and, uh, that was probably – I mean, I actually looked forward to goin’ to work every day there because you were working with, uh, ya know, products 2, 3, 4 years down the road and, and, uh, helping the designers and the, and the, and the engineers that were, ya know, designing the future vehicles. That, uh, was really nice to work with. Doreen Howard: [34:36] Um, you said you had a family background of General Motors, uh, employees. I was just curious, um, what type a vehicle do you drive? Do you drive... Kirk Harris: Do I drive... Doreen Howard: ...one of our... Kirk Harris: ...or own? Doreen Howard: ...products? [laughter] Doreen Howard: Do you drive any of the products that, that you, um, built or? Kirk Harris: Uh, yes, I, I have – as a matter of fact, I have a 1976 Oldsmobile that I still – a Cutlass, that I still, uh, have stored and, um, we drove Cutlasses – or we drove Oldsmobiles right up until we had a, a 2000, uh, Alero, and, uh, we both, we both at the time – and now my wife drives a Chevy Trailblazer and I drive a, uh, a Silverado pickup, but, uh, um, we also have a, uh, Pontiac Trans Am that we have stored also. So we’re a General Motors family, definitely. Doug Rademacher: [35:49] What is, um, the most appreciated bargained benefit that you’ve come to appreciate through the bargaining process, um, with the UAW and, and the corporation? Kirk Harris: Well that’s a hard [laughter], hard one to think. There’s so many. It’s hard to pick the best one. Uh, I would say probably – it’s, it’s really not very glamorous until you have a, till you have a problem or where ya really need it, but I would say the medical benefits, I think, are probably the most practical and the best and, and, ya know, would be the, the biggest money-saver if ever you had a real serious, ya know, medical issue. Doug Rademacher: Absolutely, and I do know that, uh, the only greater than the, makin’ a good wage is, is having your health. So as we get older and closer to our retirement, I know that’s a real concern of ours. [36:59] Um, you said when you hired in here that you were greeted by your, uh, Zone Committee and District Committeeman... Kirk Harris: Mm-hm. Doug Rademacher: ...and you said, uh, you felt a, a, a rapport with, when you were taken to meet management by them. Uh, can you talk about your union, 602, and did you go to union meetings? Kirk Harris: Um, I never really went to many union meetings until I got involved with the, uh, the new Delta Township Program, because I was always – the things that I was involved with outside of the shop, uh, didn’t lend very well to the, to the union meeting dates, and that’s probably really no excuse; I should’ve made [tap], made – now that I see what goes on with the union and everything, I see more I shoulda made more time for that, but, uh, um, ya know. Doug Rademacher: [38:02] Well, as you say that, what, what do you see now with the union that, that you feel that maybe you missed a part of? Kirk Harris: The – well, I guess the whole democratic procedure and, um, that goes on there, really, is, is really good to be involved with. Uh, ya know, the, uh, being able to vote and make decisions and, and your vote actually counts, ya know, and, and actually being able to, to, uh, be able to stand up in an open meeting and, and address concerns or, or, uh, or needs. But as I, as I get older, I feel more, more and more involved with that type a stuff because I can actually see, ya know, where, ya know, when you’re younger, ya just, you don’t, you don’t take that into consideration as much and I don’t think you appreciate the benefits that the unions negotiated for you much, as much until you get older. [laughter] Linda Johnson: [39:21] On the same note, um, is there any words of wisdom that you would offer anyone that’s young that’s, uh, maybe gonna be coming into General Motors or our new plant? We may be hiring new people at some point. Is there any words of wisdom that you would maybe pass onto them? Kirk Harris: Well, I, I feel that, um, knowing what I’ve been through, the best thing I ever did was to, was to start going back to school and, and get into the trades. Uh, not, not because there’s more money involved or anything – that, I mean, that’s a nice benefit – but the, it seems like the more training I got, the more secure my job got. When I was on production, uh, when I first hired in, it didn’t seem like there was that much there to keep me there, but as soon as I started getting more training and when I got accepted into the apprenticeship program and it just seems like General Motors is investing more and more money in me and it made my job more and more secured the more I learned. So I guess that’s what I would suggest, ya know, to somebody is to get involved with bettering, bettering yourself as soon as possible to try to work up the ladder, whether it be in management or, or either, whatever – or engineering or, or whatever they feel, feel the most, um, ya know, draw to would be to, ya know, try to get, ya know, move up the ladder at General Motors as quick as possible. Marilyn Coulter: [41:20] So actually you think that they should utilize that UAW [inaudible 41:25] negotiated benefit of the Education Tuition [Refund 41:28]. Kirk Harris: Oh definitely. That’s a very good resource to use. I’ve used it. My family’s used it. So that’s a very good benefit. Marilyn Coulter: [Thank you 41:39]. Doug Rademacher: [41:39] Kirk, you said you didn’t attend union meetings because it didn’t fit into your schedule outside a here. Did your trade of the skills you have carry over outside a the plant? Have you done things in your community, uh, with the knowledge that you’ve got through your trade that in, either in your communities or somethin’ you do for your neighbors or something like that where you’ve seen your trade actually help others outside of [inaudible 42:08]? Kirk Harris: Oh yeah. I’ve, uh, I’ve worked with the Vocational Partment, Department at our local school, um, the, um, a [VoTech 42:19], uh, instructor. I worked with him quite a bit when my, my children were in high school. Doug Rademacher: [42:26] That’d be Laingsburg? Kirk Harris: Yes. And, um, I, I much as got him some, uh, got the kids some tutors through, through the departments and stuff and the Tool Room and that. So worked with that and also I’ve helped my neighbors quite a bit because I have a f-, a few piece-, a few machines, old machines that I picked up over a period a years and I do a little bit of, little bit a work, uh, in the garage for people, plus with the things I did, ya know, for entertainment, I really, really used a lotta my trade, uh, experience. Doreen Howard: [43:05] What are – what is that? What do you do for... Kirk Harris: Well, I’ve... Doreen Howard: ...[inaudible 43:09]? Kirk Harris: ...I’ve, we’ve, uh, worked with, uh, racing model boats and... Doreen Howard: Oh. Kirk Harris: ...and, uh, and then we, we raced – when my kids got a little older, they both raced, uh, Quarter Midgets for, for us, we owned a race team for a while, and that’s when we’d be traveling all every weekend when we were doin’ that kinda thing. Doreen Howard: Might be a lotta fun. Kirk Harris: Right now I’m flying radio-controlled airplanes. So I use a lotta my, um, trade to... Doreen Howard: Knowledge, yeah. Kirk Harris: ...build – I make most a my own parts, so I use – just about every weekend I use my trade that I learned in here. [laughter] Doreen Howard: [Yeah 43:51]. Doug Rademacher: Well that’s wonderful. [43:54] Do you h-, uh, is there any question you feel we haven’t asked of you? Do you – is there somethin’ you’d like to share that we haven’t touched on? Kirk Harris: Not that I can really think of, no. [laughter] Pretty thorough. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: Anybody have anything? Okay. Well, it’s been a wonderful, uh, opportunity to meet you, Kirk, and we appreciate your time and your interview today. Kirk Harris: Well... Doug Rademacher: Good luck on your new... Kirk Harris: ...thank you. Doug Rademacher: ...endeavors at the Delta Plant. Kirk Harris: Yup. Doreen Howard: Thank you. Kirk Harris: We’ll do our best. Thank you. Doreen Howard: Um... Marilyn Coulter: The name of the interviewers. Doreen Howard: Yeah. Uh, Doreen Howard. Linda Johnson: Linda Johnson. Marilyn Coulter: Marilyn Coulter. Doug Rademacher: And Doug Rademacher. Doreen Howard: Thank you. Linda Johnson: Bye. Doug Rademacher: I forgot to do that when we start-... [clicking] /rt