Richard Hegmon, an African American, discusses his memories as a resident of the Fisher Body neighborhood Marilyn Coulter: [recorder clicking] Fisher Body Historical is interview with, uh, the community. Today is March 22, Wednesday, 2006. The time is approximately 1:25. We’re at the Frank Dryer UAW Local 602, Frank Dryer Greenhouse. First, we’ll introduce the team. John Fedewa: John Fedewa. Marilyn Coulter: And my name is Marilyn Coulter. And today we’re here with… Richard Hegmon: Richard L. Hegmon. [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: Okay. [0:30] Mr. Hegmon, can you please spell, um, your name for us, please? Richard Hegmon: Uh, H-E-G-M-O-N. Marilyn Coulter: And your last name? Richard Hegmon: Hegmon, that’s… Marilyn Coulter: And you’re Richard? Richard Hegmon: Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: Okay. I’m sorry. [0:40] And today, um, can you also give us your address? Richard Hegmon: Uh, 2148 [sniffing] Bruce Avenue… Marilyn Coulter: Okay. Richard Hegmon: …Lansing. Marilyn Coulter: Okay. [0:49] So, uh, Mr. Hegmon, are you married with children? Richard Hegmon: Yes, I’m married. Marilyn Coulter: [0:53] And, um, where were you born and where were you raised? Richard Hegmon: I was born and raised here in Lansing, Lansing, Michigan. Marilyn Coulter: Okay. [1:00] And, um, your education? Richard Hegmon: I, uh, graduated from the, from J. W. Sexton. Marilyn Coulter: Okay. [1:07] And, uh, your military? Were you in the military? Richard Hegmon: No, I wasn’t in the military, no. Marilyn Coulter: Okay. Uh, now, you were, uh – you worked for General Motors but you also were born and raised right here in the Lansing Community. Richard Hegmon: Correct. Marilyn Coulter: [1:22] Um, what we wanna know from you as being a community person – um, can you tell us whatever histories or memories you have about, uh, Fisher Body, Lansing, General Motors, um, living in the community where the factory was? Can you give us some of your histories and share some a your memories with us? Richard Hegmon: Uh, there’s, there’s so much, that, from, uh [throat clearing] memory, [inaudible 1:46]. Marilyn Coulter: You s-… Richard Hegmon: There would be kids goin’ through. Bein’ able to go in and outta the – in them days, some of the – in the medical department and everything. The kids – it was more open at that time. You could g-, [inaudible 2:03] the plant. Um… Marilyn Coulter: [2:07] Now, was that for both facilities? You said you could go into the medical facilities? Richard Hegmon: Yeah, we used to – over, over, over at the main plant, you know… Marilyn Coulter: [2:14] At the main plant, you [inaudible 2:14]? Richard Hegmon: Yeah, main plant. Sometime we’d go in there. Um, if, if you wanna talk about the, uh… Marilyn Coulter: Primarily with Fisher. Richard Hegmon: …with Fisher, Fisher Body. Uh, most people always remember the beauty of, uh, of the grounds out in front. But, uh, and that, the – how the building was kept on the outside. But if you want me to give the other side of it as a community, as a Black person, young Black kid in the, in the neighborhood – I think the story you might want… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …is the fact that at that time, uh, one of the – it’s summertime. And we’re talkin’ about in the late ‘30s, before the war. Uh, one of the entertainment, uh, in the, in the community was, uh, go watch [sniffing] softball games, at, at the s-, West, uh, uh, Side Park, which was on Saginaw Street. And, uh, so, uh, the people from the west side, uh, would walk [sniffing] from, uh, the Williams and St. Joe areas, uh, those avenue areas to Saginaw Street… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …to watch the game. Uh, and that meant coming up Dennison Street. Uh, the last paved streets would be on the end of, uh, uh, West Street, before you got, uh, and, and anything west of, uh, um – or noth-, nothin’, uh, there was nothin’ paved west of Dennison. And where J. W. Sexton is now, goin’ south, was all woods. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: It was all woods and so [clicking] we would cut through as a shortcut. And, uh, Fisher by that time, was all along, uh, [Verlins 4:06]… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …and, uh, and so we come along there at night and, uh, the, the guys worked there would start lookin’ out the window. They’d see us comin’ and they would start catcallin’. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: And some-, and sometime, well, there, there could be, uh – we could, we – there could be maybe 20, 30, 35 people, you know, kids and sometime men and women, too would come along and go walkin’ to the game. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: So they would look out the window and they’d start callin’. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: You know, jungle bunnies, coons, [harassed us 4:41]… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …nigger… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …[inaudible 4:44] started callin’. So, uh, [every time 4:48] some people hollered the names back. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. [throat clearing] Richard Hegmon: So this went on [throat clearing]. Uh, so we got sick of it, full up. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: So we would start stoppin’ [throat clearing] in the fields over here, which is – where the school [throat clearing] start pickin’ up rocks. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: [coughing] So they start callin’. We start breakin’ windows out, goin’, goin’ along Verlinden. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: And we, we, we – if that – when we heard a name, we’d break a window. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: And, uh, we broke a lotta windows. [laughter] [Inaudible 5:23]. So, uh, uh, the rock-throwin’ and breakin’ windows apparently didn’t stop it. So we’d go along and, you know. And the plant [inaudible 5:33] guys, they would come on out and chase us, you know. Well, they never caught us. So, so we found that, we found that, uh, change a strategy. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: A few guys would get rocks and the rest of us would get on, get the big lumps of the, of [inaudible 5:50] clay. Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. Richard Hegmon: And we found that the – one guy throw a rock, the guys would – they would see the rock comin’ and they would, they would duck… Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. Richard Hegmon: …you know. And the next two guys would throw clay. Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh, hm. Richard Hegmon: Everyone hides. They had the screens up on the windows. Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. Richard Hegmon: So when the clay would hit the windows… Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. Richard Hegmon: …it would go through and splatter. Marilyn Coulter: Ah. Richard Hegmon: Okay. Well, you know, and then we’d take off, you know. Uh, it was back in like – it must’ve been like in the ‘70s… Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Richard Hegmon: …when I got involved in the union like that. In fact, after one a the [inaudible 6:25]. And I, and I’m tryin’ to think. I can’t rack my brain. [Inaudible 6:30]. I’m tryin’ to think some a the guys I knew from, from Fisher Body. [And I 6:33] can remember back, uh, oh, uh, [thumping] oh, some a the guys that were involved in union leadership at that time. Uh, um, [inaudible 6:43] and I’m tryin’ to think a some a the guys. And, and, uh, the fella I’m thinkin’ about, I can picture him, right, but I cannot remember his name. But he, he had been on [inaudible 6:52], uh, committee. And he had been really gettin’ involved and, and… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: So I got, we got talkin’, you know, about, uh, some of the problems in the plant and I brought this story up. And he got smilin’. So he, I, he gave me his side. Every time we’d throw that clay in there, stones in there… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: Those guys were eggin’ us. I’m, his, his – I’m give ya his side of it. Because we were doin’ somethin’ the union guys couldn’t do. We were stoppin’ the line. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. John Fedewa: Hm. Richard Hegmon: Every time that we’d go in there, we would, uh – that dirt would mess up the [laughter] enamel of the car. They’d have to yank ‘em off. So that… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …would stop the line. And all those years, you know, all I, I could see the racism started. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: I couldn’t see… Marilyn Coulter: They were – you were givin’ them a break. Richard Hegmon: We were givin’ them guys – that’s the only break those guys – at that time, uh, they, they didn’t get breaks. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: So that, every time we did that, uh, we we’re giving those guys on, on the line a break. Marilyn Coulter: So you thought they were being malicious and they just knew… Richard Hegmon: Well… Marilyn Coulter: …that you were a way to help’m. Richard Hegmon: …I think they were, they were [inaudible 7:59]. Some of’m were… Marilyn Coulter: Yeah, sure. Richard Hegmon: …bein’ malicious but there was another side [inaudible 8:02]… Marilyn Coulter: There was another – there was an additional [inaudible 8:04]… Richard Hegmon: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Marilyn Coulter: It’s wrong but it’s gonna give us a break. Richard Hegmon: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Marilyn Coulter: Yeah. [8:06] Did you ever have any confrontations with the, um, security or they’d just come out and chase ya away? Richard Hegmon: Well, they would try to catch us [inaudible 8:14] [throat clearing] [laughter]. [Inaudible 8:16]. Marilyn Coulter: Mis-… Richard Hegmon: In fact, we had, uh, [inaudible 8:20], right. I’m talkin’ about kids that come up durin’ the Depression. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: And, uh, we know that it was comin’ on. We very seldom, you know, they’d be – uh, they would call the police sometime. We’d know they’d be lookin’ for us, so… Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Richard Hegmon: …we had a – on the way back home, we’d, uh, go down Saginaw and, uh, go one a the bakeries. I can’t remember now if it was, uh – one a the big bakeries had a bakery there on Saginaw. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: Uh, and usually late at night they would have all their little pastries, you know, like the, the… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …you know, the, oh, cupcake things they sell in the store, you know, that you, you pass by… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …and all that. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: They’d have that sittin’ out there on the, on the trucks, all loaded up, you know. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: You know, uh, we would, you know, um, um, um, lighten their load on the way home. [laughter] [Inaudible 9:11]. Marilyn Coulter: [9:14] So, so Mr. Hegmon, how far did you live from Fisher Body, in proximity? Or did you just live on… Richard Hegmon: [Inaudible 9:19]. Marilyn Coulter: …the west side community? Richard Hegmon: I lived on Main, Main, uh, uh, between, uh, Butler and, uh… Marilyn Coulter: Okay. Richard Hegmon: …[Wayburn 9:26]. Marilyn Coulter: So actually, you lived closer to the Oldsmobile facility. Richard Hegmon: Yeah, yeah, right. Marilyn Coulter: Oh, but now, um… Richard Hegmon: Many, many Blacks lived, lived, uh, in this area though. [Inaudible 9:33], you know, there wasn’t very many houses out in this area… Marilyn Coulter: Back in this time… Richard Hegmon: …at this time. Marilyn Coulter: …and so… Richard Hegmon: Right. Marilyn Coulter: …[9:38] and the timeframe we’re talkin’ about then is like 1935, ’37, you said? Richard Hegmon: Yeah, between, I’d say between ‘30 – well, let’s see I’m – I would say between, I’m gonna say between ’35 and uh, and uh, and uh, ’40, you know. Marilyn Coulter: Between 1935 and ’40? Richard Hegmon: Yeah, yeah… Marilyn Coulter: And… Richard Hegmon: …yeah, ’41. I would say, I would say the late ‘30s, you know, yeah, ’35 to ’40, that would be, yeah. Marilyn Coulter: So I know there were other parts of General Motors. Like you said, um, you can remember the, the, um, the, the, post-Depression years and with that, now, you said also somethin’ about you can remember back during when there was a strike here. And the guns… Richard Hegmon: Well, when, when, when… Marilyn Coulter: …and stuff out in front. Richard Hegmon: …I remember when, uh, when, uh, UAW was tryin’, tryin’ to, uh, get into General Motors. And they, they, uh, had, uh, they had the, uh, [inaudible 10:31], uh, uh, [sniffing] [inaudible 10:33] field artillery and machine gun that they set up down there on, on the pavement on the [inaudible 10:42]. Marilyn Coulter: Really? Richard Hegmon: Yeah, they had to keep, uh, you know, to keep order down there. Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. Richard Hegmon: So, um, you know, had to keep the – I don’t know if it was to keep the strikers from – can’t remember now if it was to keep the strikers out or what, yeah. Marilyn Coulter: Now, um, you were… Richard Hegmon: That was mainly in ’36, ’37, somewhere in there. Marilyn Coulter: ’36, ’37, now you went to J. W. Sexton, you said. Richard Hegmon: Mm-hm, yeah. Marilyn Coulter: [11:07] And this was in what year? Richard Hegmon: Say what? Marilyn Coulter: [11:09] What years were you at Sexton? Richard Hegmon: Uh, I was started – uh, I graduated January and then we started in, uh, it was ’43, ’44 to ’47, yeah. Marilyn Coulter: Okay. Richard Hegmon: I started in January [inaudible 11:21]. Marilyn Coulter: ’43 to ’47. [11:23] Now, there were certain things about – what did you know about Fisher Body, Lansing comin’ up? Richard Hegmon: Well, I, I, I knew that it was only – there wasn’t any Black work there. And I knew it was [laughter] – all I could see was a, was a bunch a, bunch a White guys that would come to the window and call you some bad names. [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: Uh, and so… Richard Hegmon: [Inaudible 11:46]. You know, I didn’t – well, I’ll tell ya it was durin’ high school, durin’ high school, I had [inaudible 11:53] because now, durin’ – I’d been in, you know, high school really durin’ the war. So I would [sub 11:57] durin’ the war. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: And, uh, one other thing I would have at Fisher Body that – at that time, [inaudible 12:04] at Sexton. Now, [because of the shortage 12:07] and like the, like all the north end the building, we didn’t have any, any, uh, heat. Marilyn Coulter: Oh. Richard Hegmon: Right and, uh, [clicking] the track team – we didn’t have any kinda track. In fact, we used to have to go and try to, uh, practice track on Fisher Body’s parkin’ lot on the back road. [laughter] [Inaudible 12:25]. When it was time to run track, we’d get some fresh air. We’d track – track run on their, on the gravel, on the, on the…. Marilyn Coulter: [12:32] So Sexton High School used… Richard Hegmon: Yeah, yeah… Marilyn Coulter: …to practice the track and field in the… Richard Hegmon: Oh, yeah. Marilyn Coulter: …Fisher Body’s parkin’ lot? Richard Hegmon: Yeah, that’s where we’d practice. Marilyn Coulter: [12:37] Around the cars and things? Richard Hegmon: Well, that, you know… Marilyn Coulter: [Inaudible 12:40]. Richard Hegmon: …on the corner, there… Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. Richard Hegmon: …wasn’t that many cars. Marilyn Coulter: Oh. Richard Hegmon: Yeah, so we practiced [at night 12:43], yeah. Marilyn Coulter: Ah. Richard Hegmon: Like, when we’d run, you know, outdoors, that’s where we would practice, the track out there on the parkin’ lot. Marilyn Coulter: Oh. [phone ringing] Richard Hegmon: ‘Cause we didn’t have any track around the school. [Inaudible 12:52]. Marilyn Coulter: Excuse me. [background conversation] John Fedewa: [Inaudible 13:00]. Marilyn Coulter: I forgot to take – turn off my phone, sorry… Richard Hegmon: Hm. Marilyn Coulter: …a massive snafu. So as a, as a teenager, you practiced the track and field out on [throat clearing] the, uh… Richard Hegmon: Fisher Body parkin’ lot, yeah. Marilyn Coulter: Fisher Body parking lot. Richard Hegmon: Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. [13:14] Did you know many, um – how did the community view Fisher Body? Richard Hegmon: Well, I think they viewed Fisher Body like, you know, like we did, uh, uh, uh, all the other places we knew, hopin’ to get, get in there and get a job. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: [Inaudible 13:29]. People, people hoped to get in there and get a job. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: I think one a my neighbors – Mr. Parker’s one of the first ones to come in, get a, get a job with them. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. [sighing] Richard Hegmon: And, uh, so, but, uh, slowly and all as the, as the war effort started, and then they opened – things started to open up. Um, actually it ties – I can tie in to Fisher Body and could give you an idea a some of the, uh, employment. Uh, [throat clearing] when I first came in, into the [Ford 14:02] plant… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …there was a lot of, uh, really hard feeling. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: [coughing] Sorry, excuse me. Because it – that was right after, uh, they negotiated the contract in ’46, like that. But durin’ the war, uh, [throat clearing] there had been, uh, a group that they tried to keep [Bill Dean 14:29], and th-, a bright guy by the name a Bill Dean… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …from bein’ a hammerman, running a hammer. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: Um, a lotta the guys that – who had the best jobs – at that time, the hammer was, was high up rated – one a the highest paid jobs in, in the plant. And, and, uh, but, I think they, uh, makin’ more than machine repairman. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: At that time, [inaudible 14:51] the kinda pay we’re talkin’ about. And, uh, a lotta the guys that, uh, were hammermen in there were White guys that came from other plants and out of, uh, Bay City and some other places. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: It was – and a lotta them were southern guys, you know. And, uh, so was gonna try to get to run a hammer. Those guys, uh – they set him straight. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: And bright guys got a chance to get on certain jobs. Um, since we were makin’ war material, the Army told’m, “You strike, you go in the Army.” So that broke the strike up. And that’s how Bill Dean got to be the first Black guy in Lansing to, uh – throwin’ a hammer. Marilyn Coulter: Ah. John Fedewa: Hm. Richard Hegmon: And, uh, so, and I, and I and so I ended up bein’ the last one, [laughter] you know… Marilyn Coulter: So-… Richard Hegmon: …but, uh… Marilyn Coulter: So he was the first and you were the last. Now, because you did not actually work in Fisher Body. You worked at the… Richard Hegmon: No, ac-, actually I [inaudible 15:46]. Marilyn Coulter: You, you worked…. Richard Hegmon: I was in and outta Fisher Body as, like I said, benefit rep and you know, and, and, [thumping] and, uh… Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. Richard Hegmon: And, uh, I [inaudible 15:55] in and outta Fisher Body. Marilyn Coulter: S-, so you worked at the Ford’s plant… Richard Hegmon: Yeah, yeah. Marilyn Coulter: …and you became a benefits rep and a active member of UAW… Richard Hegmon: Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: …Local 1618. Richard Hegmon: Yeah, yeah. Marilyn Coulter: [16:04] But now, what was it that kept you outta Fisher Body? What were some things that you might’ve heard or whatever that… Richard Hegmon: Well… Marilyn Coulter: …kept you from going into Fisher Body… Richard Hegmon: Like I said, I had, I had heard… Marilyn Coulter: …outside a the money, [laughter] [inaudible 16:16]. Richard Hegmon: Yeah, yeah. I had heard, I – in fact, the, the – when General Motors called me within three years, I had a choice to go to Fisher Body… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …uh, plant, Ford’s plant or the main plant, you know. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: They all called me within, uh, two or three days. And, uh, it – the guys who – the few Blacks I knew in Fisher Body, [Clifford Green 16:36] and, uh, [Phil Taylor 16:37] and some of those guys… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: Okay, those guys, they came outta the service and went, went into Fisher Body. And they all were given some of the work but wet sanding jobs. And then, that was a hard – with, you know, uh, hard, dirty, you know… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …bad job wet-, you know, wet sanding. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: And so everything I heard about the job – and they had, and some a these jobs over on the line – I didn’t think it was somethin’ I wanted to do. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: I knew [coughing] what they expect [coughing] about the j-, the line [coughing] [inaudible 17:08]. And I, [inaudible 17:11] not stand in General Motors [inaudible 17:14]. Figured, well I’d, I’d go on to [inaudible 17:16] was. So I’d, you know, go where the money was. And, you know, ‘cause I didn’t plan on [inaudible 17:20] that would get money together to go to college. [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: And, and go to college. Richard Hegmon: Yeah… Marilyn Coulter: Oh. Richard Hegmon: …uh-huh, right. Marilyn Coulter: So… Richard Hegmon: So I ended up there [thumping] 47 years, so [laughter]… Marilyn Coulter: So now, with the, um – Lansing then, um – three different plants called you at three different times. The jobs were very prel-, prevalent, right, back then. Richard Hegmon: [Inaudible 17:40]. Marilyn Coulter: Lansing back at that time, when you hired in, it sounds as though there were jobs every place ‘cause you just said three different plants… Richard Hegmon: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: …called you to work. [17:49] So was that – there was an abundance of work in Lansing back then… Richard Hegmon: Uh… Marilyn Coulter: …unlike today? Richard Hegmon: …yeah. I think that, uh, at that time, it, it, especially, yeah, they were hiring. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: You know, uh, and I think I might’ve been, uh, right on the first a that. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: Because they hired a bunch a people in ’48 and, and in ’49. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: And so I, I would think I was just, just happened to – just lucky enough to be on the first… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …you know, uh, uh, started bringin’ people in… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. [sigh] N-… Richard Hegmon: …in. Marilyn Coulter: Now, you had a lot of connections with General Motors and Oldsmobile. [18:27] I know you – could you briefly share the story, again, about how your parents actually got to Michigan? Richard Hegmon: [18:35] We got to Lansing? Marilyn Coulter: Yeah. Richard Hegmon: Oh, well, we got to Lansing because they were – my dad, uh, uh, been hired on, uh, [inaudible 18:42], building a hotel. My dad was brought in to, to, uh, be a maître d’ or head waiter, you know. And he… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …got – and he hired, uh, for, uh, you know, uh – he had a connection. He’d worked as a foreman, uh, uh, on the, on the, on the dining cars out in Chicago… Marilyn Coulter: [19:00] So he was a Pullman porter? Richard Hegmon: Well, he worked the dining car a ways, all, all through the Midwest and, uh… Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. Richard Hegmon: …in Chicago. And, at that time, um, those guys kinda – they – a lotta them worked circuits. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: And they would work like from, uh, in Arkansas, Atlantic City. So a lotta those guys knew each other. So… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …my dad knew a lotta those fellas. [He worked with’m 19:20]. And so, uh, when he come to Lansing, he was able to contact some of’m and say, “Hey, I gotta job up here”… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …”and I’m, I’m starting at a new hotel.” And so that’s how he was able to call guys from all over different parts and, you know, get a, get a, uh, get a, uh, staff of people here for – [over to 19:36], you know, start a… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …hotel. He wanted to, he wanted the hotel was being one a the best hotel this side, you know, in this part a the country… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …compared to the, both Cadillac and, uh, and, uh [inaudible 19:51]. So I… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …so he wanted the best. [clicking] So… Marilyn Coulter: [19:55] And you did – and you said, you personally also knew some a the Olds family yourself? Richard Hegmon: Oh yeah, yeah. [thumping] Well, uh, Mrs. Olds she was – stayed right there and lived right there in the hotel, so… Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. Richard Hegmon: …and, uh, so I knew her before – real, real well, yeah. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: And I, I remember R.E. Olds, you know… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. So, um, uh, goin’ back to the, uh, plant and the community here. You, um, working here, living here and you said something that some people knew – they knew about the grounds. [20:25] What was it about the grounds? And was General Motors considered a good neighbor or it was just a showplace for a factory? Richard Hegmon: Well, I was sayin’ how nice they kept the outside grounds, you know. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: They had the, they had the big beautiful, uh, uh, Fisher Body coach out there, you know, in front… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …you know. And there was, uh, the grounds were just kept, just beautifully, you know, so… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …it was always – it was somethin’ people liked to be just goin’ along and see… Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. Richard Hegmon: You know, like that, so all that, uh, you know, that was a [inaudible 20:52] as far as the way they, uh – the grounds was always, you know, part a the beautiful, you know, the beautification of, you know… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …of, of Lansing. Marilyn Coulter: And, uh, I know you – we had talked earlier a little bit to you. We’re talkin’ about some of the different hiring practices that you thought people had to deal with back then insofar as grandfathering in and things like that. [21:15] Did you… Richard Hegmon: Well, I… Marilyn Coulter: …want to talk about that a little bit? Richard Hegmon: …yeah, that’s a area. If, if, uh, if, uh – the best way to get a job was to know somebody, have some [inaudible 21:22] there. Uh, and, uh, to [inaudible 21:26] to, to the right fraternal organizations. And, and, uh, if you played ball on certain ball teams, they’d help you get in, into, uh, into [inaudible 21:37] plant. Uh, if you, um, if you, uh, like I said, belonged to the right church [clicking]… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …things like that. Yeah and all those – all that stuff, you know, involved – we’d get hired in. Marilyn Coulter: [21:52] So now, when you say if they played ball, do you mean like if they were like an old football star or was it… Richard Hegmon: Well, I seen some a that, yeah… Marilyn Coulter: …a city league? Richard Hegmon: …some a that, some a that, yeah. Marilyn Coulter: [22:01] Was it a silly… Richard Hegmon: In fact, um, one a the head guys that, uh, used to hire in and get a [hour rate 22:06], he, he had, he had played ball. And at that time, GM had their own, uh, baseball team like that. Marilyn Coulter: Oh. Richard Hegmon: So naturally, they tried to hire [laughter] some a them just for ball players. Marilyn Coulter: [22:17] Oh, so now, was General Motors participating in city leagues or somethin’ like that? Richard Hegmon: Yeah. I think, yeah, yeah [inaudible 22:23]. Marilyn Coulter: And so they had to get their good ball players. [laughter] Richard Hegmon: Oh, yeah, yeah. Marilyn Coulter Yeah, that’s okay. [22:27] And, and so, and Fisher Body did that also, yes? Richard Hegmon: I’m not sure if they all played. It just seemed they all played on General Motor’s team. I’m not… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …sure if – I don’t remember Fisher Body havin’ their own team. Marilyn Coulter: But it was just a General Motors site… Richard Hegmon: Yeah, yeah… Marilyn Coulter: …site team. Richard Hegmon: …Actually, it was a General Motors team [inaudible 22:45], you know. Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. I know I’ve heard in some a the other interviews where people said that they played ball out here, like durin’ breaks and stuff. And… Richard Hegmon: Hm. Marilyn Coulter: …where they practiced and stupid stuff like that. Richard Hegmon: Yeah, we used to have a ball diamond that was over there by the front – by plant, plant, uh, you know, where, where our plant is out front [thumping] [inaudible 23:02], yeah. [thumping] Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: They had a ball diamond out there, yeah. Marilyn Coulter: [23:09] Mm-hm. Well, so now, are there some other things about, um, living in a, in a General Motors town and – that you’d like to share with us? Richard Hegmon: [Inaudible 23:23] so much [laughter] [inaudible 23:24]. Marilyn Coulter: You can just pick any particular thing, any particular memory that you remember. [23:30] I mean it – what impact did the plant have on the city? Richard Hegmon: Well, I think that, I think we were, uh – I think Lansing, um, it has, has, uh, benefitted from General Motors. I think General Motors definitely benefitted from Lansing. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: And, um, uh, I think General Motors made a mistake, uh, when, uh, when they pulled, uh, some a the work outta Lansing in, uh, back in the, in the ‘70s… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …instead of, uh, instead of increasing it. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: And because, uh, when they [inaudible 24:17] when we had some a the best [inaudible 24:21] cars in the world. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: And some a the best quality cars… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …in the world. And I think that work should’ve been – General Motors made a serious, serious, you know, marketing mistake when, when, uh, when they did that. Marilyn Coulter: [tsk] Um, how – right now, um, you’ve worked for General Motors, um. You’ve been a member of 6 – of 1618. [24:43] Um, what are your thoughts on, um, having grown up here now and having the plant close? How do you feel about that now? Richard Hegmon: Well, I [throat clearing] you mean havin’ my plant [inaudible 24:56]? Marilyn Coulter: Well, your plant’s closing…. Richard Hegmon: [24:57] Are all the, all the plants? Marilyn Coulter: …Our plant is closing. As we speak right now… Richard Hegmon: [Inaudible 25:00]. Marilyn Coulter: …they’re tearin’ it down. Richard Hegmon: [throat clearing] Well, I, I, well, let me put it this way. If you look at the [inaudible 25:05] and, uh, um [clicking] – When I first got involved really [clicking] – Well, I’ll put it this way. I remember back in the ‘70s, at one time, um, I – your plant was [clanking] – they had, if I remember right, I would think around – you guys were probly up around 9,000 people, if I remember right. Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Richard Hegmon: And, or better. Um, ‘cause we were up pretty close to three thousand in our plant. Um, main plant had probly about, uh – they had, if I remember right, somewhere around 18,000 to 25,000 in, in the main plant. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: If you take a local like, uh, 70, uh, 5, uh, uh, 659 over, over in, over in Flint, those guys had over – I, I think they had one local and if I remember right, they had – and I [inaudible 26:11] but I think they had up around 100 – better than 100,000 guys – people workin’. Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Richard Hegmon: If you’d take all those guys – we’re talkin’ about all in Flint and Lansing, Saginaw and right here in, in, uh Cadillac and in, in, Detroit and all. We’re talkin’ about – I would think and, and [inaudible 26:33] but I would think it would come close to, uh, maybe 200-plus thousand jobs… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …that were eliminated. [Inaudible 26:45] General Motors still makes cars. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: But jobs were eliminated, you know, so income, family income was eliminated. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: Now, and [bargainin’ 26:58] power was eliminated. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: Now, I think that, uh, somewhere down the line, uh, um, this outsourcin’… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …of, uh… Marilyn Coulter: [Inaudible 27:14]. Richard Hegmon: …we’re not, uh, not only outsourcing, uh, uh, jobs, we’re also, we’re outsourcing a lifestyle. Marilyn Coulter: Yeah. Richard Hegmon: And I think that’s done by not only General Motors, uh, business in this country. I think we’re askin’ for some serious, serious, serious problems. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: Because you can’t put people, thousands and thousands a people – can’t keep puttin’ young people in jail and prison who – ‘cause they can’t find a job. Marilyn Coulter: Yeah. Richard Hegmon: And you can’t tell people we can’t give ya – people aren’t gonna go hungry. Marilyn Coulter: They gotta do somethin’. Richard Hegmon: And so what do you [eat 27:51]? I remember, I remember seein’ the guys [thumping] ride the rails, railroads, hobos ridin’ rails, uh, you know, when I was a kid… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …comin’ in. I had relatives that would come in hoboin’, you know. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: I don’t think we’re gonna go back to hoboin’. Marilyn Coulter: No, I don’t think… Richard Hegmon: I don’t think… Marilyn Coulter: …we will. Richard Hegmon: …I think people will be on the streets. So, you know, I think somebody – leadership, business and government, they better start doin’ some serious, serious thinkin’. We’ll get this country back goin’. Marilyn Coulter: [28:19] Now, I don’t remember [throat clearing] [tsk], I don’t remember the exact date, but were you a youngster, um, back when they had the Lansing Labor Holiday – when they shut the downtown – when the labor union shut it down? Richard Hegmon: That would’ve been, yeah, that would’ve been in the ‘30s [inaudible 28:37]. Marilyn Coulter: Do you remember that at all? Richard Hegmon: Not – I can’t say I – I remember, uh, hearin’ about it but I don’t, I don’t remember anything, you know… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …definite about it. [Inaudible 28:49]. Marilyn Coulter: You were young then. Richard Hegmon: Yeah, I was too busy, yeah, too busy with other then. [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: Yeah, [inaudible 28:52]. [laughter] But, um, okay, so, um, is there anything else you’d like to share with us? Richard Hegmon: [Inaudible 29:01]. Marilyn Coulter: [But, um, well, that’s it 29:06]. But now, can you – y-, you said like initially, you can remember when they were building, uh, Sexton and the Greenhouse that we’re in now. Richard Hegmon: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: [29:16] You remember the – when it was all wooded area? Richard Hegmon: Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: You remember that. [29:22] Were there anything else about the community that you remember as a child? Or as a person working? [Inaudible 29:30]. Richard Hegmon: [29:31] Anything that pertains to Fisher Body? Marilyn Coulter: [29:33] Mm-hm, yeah, or the, or the west side of Lansing, where the plants were. Richard Hegmon: Well, uh, it, uh, like I say, all this here – out here by Fisher Body – at that time, was, was considered almost like out in the country. [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: [Inaudible 29:47] you think about it. And then, uh, uh, and, and west of, uh, uh, say west of Dennison was go-, goin’ on the [inaudible 29:56]. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: With thoughts of, uh, uh, anything like [inaudible 30:03]. In fact, we used to, uh, like we used to go, uh, out and hunt [and stuff like that 30:13]. [laughter] [Inaudible 30:14]… Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. Richard Hegmon: …[inaudible 30:15] and like that, so in them days it was all – that was all woods, you know. And, uh, um, uh, Lansing has, you know, just expanded… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …so much, you know. [tsk] Uh, as kids, uh, [background noises] bein’ at that time, we didn’t… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …have the cars. We didn’t have T.V. and like that, so we did a lotta walkin’. Marilyn Coulter: Okay. Richard Hegmon: Like we [inaudible 30:39] walk from the west side to where Sears is now [inaudible 30:42]. Uh… Marilyn Coulter: [That’s a ways 30:46]. [laughter] That’s a long ways. [laughter] That’s a very long way. [background conversation] Richard Hegmon: It is now. Marilyn Coulter: Woo! Richard Hegmon: Uh, Friday nights, uh, all the kids in Lansing, uh, durin’ the ‘30s, uh, uh, R. E. Old’s Clubhouse used to have free movies. Marilyn Coulter: Really? Richard Hegmon: And so all the kids in Lansing would go up over there and you could go over there. And, uh, I think popcorn, I think was a penny or [inaudible 31:08], I think was a penny. Um, you know, um, this is Depression time. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: The kids would go there and that’s where we’d go see a movie. And then summertime, I, and I’ve – I can’t remember now if the city or, or [inaudible 31:19] and, and they would, they would have, uh, movies for families. They’d go out there and set on – they’d all get on the grass to watch movies, you know… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …movies, you know, on, on the grass in summertime. Marilyn Coulter: Hm. Richard Hegmon: That’s some a the things that I remember. Marilyn Coulter: [sigh] [31:34] So you worked for General Motors and you were active – now, um, how many years did you have of service with General Motors? Richard Hegmon: How much? Marilyn Coulter: How many years a service did you have with General Motors? [background conversation] Richard Hegmon: I had almost, uh, 46½ with’m, you know… Marilyn Coulter: Forty-six and a half years. Oh my God! [thumping] And, now, I know that you were a UAW GM benefits rep. Richard Hegmon: Mm-hm. [Inaudible 31:51]. Marilyn Coulter: [31:51] And how long were you a benefits rep? Richard Hegmon: Well, I was one a the first ones they put on, so I – about 30. [background noises] I think I went on in, uh, think I went on in, uh, ’69 or ’70. [sighing] [Inaudible 32:05]… Marilyn Coulter: ’69 or ’70… Richard Hegmon: [Inaudible 32:06]… Marilyn Coulter: But, but now that now… Richard Hegmon: …[inaudible 32:08], in ‘90, ‘93. Marilyn Coulter: [32:11] So what was it like for, bein’ an African-American male, and, um, bein’ active in the union early on? [sniffing] Um… Richard Hegmon: We had to fight. Marilyn Coulter: You had to fight…. Richard Hegmon: We had to fight because… Marilyn Coulter: …[32:25] for the positions? Richard Hegmon: …there was a lot of, uh, uh, uh, there was a lot of, uh, racism in the UAW too. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: And I think that what – one, one a the things that I [inaudible 32:36] – one a the best I remember is [inaudible 32:40] UAW, meetin’ [inaudible 32:42]. Marilyn Coulter: [32:44] You had a [inaudible 32:44]? Richard Hegmon: Oh yeah, uh-huh. Marilyn Coulter: [32:45] Can you tell us a little bit about the opportunity to meet [inaudible 32:46]? Richard Hegmon: [Inaudible 32:46]. In fact, I, uh, I had a, I, I, I, uh, in fact I met [inaudible 32:53]. And, uh, uh, I was [thumping], the, uh, I think, uh, I met about every, you know, [inaudible 33:02] at UAW. I was [inaudible 33:07] fortunate to go there to, uh, uh, four or five nights, go to conferences. I got a chance, to, uh, to meet people, uh, and went all over the country. Got a chance to meet pe-, political people, been to the White House…. Marilyn Coulter: Really? Richard Hegmon: Uh… Marilyn Coulter: [33:20] With the UAW? Richard Hegmon: …[inaudible 33:21] the White House the day they were – to see Carter and we never got it finished. It was the day that, uh – they were – decided not to participate in, uh, the, uh, Olympics, so we… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …uh, the tour was cut short. So we didn’t get a chance to, you know, see the whole White House. But, uh, um, so I got a chance to meet, uh, you know, a lot of, uh… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …people, w-, w-, and, and go a lotta places. And I’m very thankful to UAW. I was very supportive and I always will be. Marilyn Coulter: [33:54] So now, you initially hired in to GM in what year? Richard Hegmon: And, and [inaudible 34:00]. I want to say right now and go on record and acknowledge [sayin’ 34:03] that these guys – retirees that are talkin’ about goin’ through this suit… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …uh, for their benefits are, are [clanking] crazy. [clanking] Because, uh, as a benefit rep, I know what [inaudible 34:19] really was way back in the ‘70s. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: And those guys are jeopardizing not only my, uh, retire-, uh, benefits and [retirement 34:27]. They’re, they’re, they’re jeopardizing, uh, uh, these people in the plant too. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: They need to keep their mouths shut and let the UAW leadership and [them 34:38] work, work it out. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: And keep, and keep it to where it’s at or… Marilyn Coulter: [Inaudible 34:41]. Now, now, when did you hire in again to, at, at the plant? Richard Hegmon: Hm? Marilyn Coulter: What year did you get involved at General Motors again? Richard Hegmon: I got involved with the union? Marilyn Coulter: No, what year with General Motors? Richard Hegmon: In, in ’47. Marilyn Coulter: In ’47. So you came in a year after they had initiated the Fair Practice Unit with the UAW civil rights – the Fair Practice Department in the UAW… Richard Hegmon: Uh… Marilyn Coulter: …[inaudible 35:05]. Richard Hegmon: …yeah, yeah. I can’t remember what year they started that. Marilyn Coulter: 1946. Richard Hegmon: Yeah, but it wasn’t, uh –it didn’t mean a whole lot. [laughing] Marilyn Coulter: Didn’t mean a whole lot. Richard Hegmon: In fact, I, and I say that… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …because, uh, uh… Marilyn Coulter: [Inaudible 35:20]. Richard Hegmon: Yeah, in fact, I [squeaking] – one a the first representatives from our local to go to the Fair Practice, uh, conferences and I can’t, I can’t remember… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …the [inaudible 35:31] guy’s name that was headin’ it in the [inaudible 35:33]. And they didn’t have much, didn’t have much a that. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: That would’ve been in the ‘50s, if I remember right, or early… Marilyn Coulter: Really. Richard Hegmon: …’60s. And he didn’t have much… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: …[help 35:40] at all. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Richard Hegmon: [Inaudible 35:42]. Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. We have other team members here now. We have… Female: [Geri Smith 35:46]. Richard Hegmon: [Inaudible 35:46]. Cheryl McQuaid: Cheryl McQuaid. Richard Hegmon: [Inaudible 35:48] you guys. Marilyn Coulter: You have to f-… Richard Hegmon: Yeah, I have to [inaudible 35:52] but I can come back some time. Marilyn Coulter: Mr. Hegmon, I want to say thank you so much for starting the memories. We’re gonna put this on pause and we’re gonna come back to you again. Richard Hegmon: [Inaudible 36:00]. I can answer questions better than I can think a somethin’. [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: Okay, All right. Richard Hegmon: Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: Thank you. Richard Hegmon: Yeah, yeah. Marilyn Coulter: And we will. And I…[recorder clicking] /hms