Monte Jackson, an African American, discusses his career as a production worker
and UAW member at the Fisher Body plant in Lansing, MI


Doreen Howard:	Okay.

Marilyn Coulter:	Are you ready?

Doreen Howard:	Yeah.

Male:	Yeah.

Marilyn Coulter:	Okay.  Fisher Body history interview, uh, with Mr. Monte Jackson on December 21, 2005 at the Jobs Bank.  The time is approximately 12:15 p.m. and we’ll first start off with, um, the names of the team members.  Marilyn Coulter.

Doreen Howard:	Doreen Howard.

John Fedewa:	John Fedewa.

Marilyn Coulter:	All right.  [0:27] Um, Monte, can you please say and spell your last name for us?

Monte Jackson:	Jackson, J-a-c-k-s-o-n.

Marilyn Coulter:	[0:35] And your address?

Monte Jackson:	4409 Stillwell.

Marilyn Coulter:	[0:39] And you’re a male.

Monte Jackson:	Yes.

Marilyn Coulter:	[0:41] Uh, your marital status?

Monte Jackson:	Married.

Marilyn Coulter:	[0:43] And, um, do, do you have any children?

Monte Jackson:	One child, a son.

Marilyn Coulter:	[0:47] And his age?

Monte Jackson:	Eleven.

Marilyn Coulter:	Okay.  [0:49] Now, um, were you born in Lansing or where were you born?

Monte Jackson:	Born and raised in Lansing, Michigan.

Marilyn Coulter:	Okay.  [0:54] And your education level?

Monte Jackson:	Uh, high school.

Marilyn Coulter:	High school.   [0:58] Um, have you, do you have any college...

Monte Jackson:	Well, I have...

Marilyn Coulter:	...[inaudible 1:00]?

Monte Jackson:	...a couple of college credits, well, you know, here and there.  I have like maybe 20 altogether, so.

Marilyn Coulter:	Hm, not bad.  That’s not bad.  [1:08] Um, any military [inaudible 1:09]?

Monte Jackson:	No military.

Marilyn Coulter:	Okay.  [1:11] And, um, what did your parents do?

Monte Jackson:	My father was a welder for over 30 years with, you know, it’s, uh, Efficiency Production that was out in Okemos.  My mom was a, a nurse for a few years but she worked off and on ‘cause we had 10 kids in my family so she was mainly at home.

Marilyn Coulter:	Hm.  Okay.  [1:31] Um, what did you do before you hired in to Fisher Body?

Monte Jackson:	Well, I’ve worked for party stores, I worked at video stores, I’ve worked at, um, grocery stores, um, just that, that kinda stuff.  I’ve always been in the food industry it seems like somehow.

Marilyn Coulter:	Oh, okay.  [1:52] So, um, what date did you hire in?

Monte Jackson:	Um, December 3, 1984.

Marilyn Coulter:	[1:59] Um, you came in and in 1984 you were how old?

Monte Jackson:	I was, um, geez, I remember I was, um, 24 I think I was, yeah.

Marilyn Coulter:	24.

Monte Jackson:	Yeah, 24.

Marilyn Coulter:	Um, so before you hired in to Fisher Body and you said you grew up in Lansing and you went to school, [2:16] did you know anything about Fisher Body prior to hiring in?

Monte Jackson:	You know, pri-, [coughing] prior to hiring in, I didn’t know about Fisher Body but I knew about Oldsmobile until I, when I was growing up, you know, ‘cause I lived over on Riverview which you can see the Oldsmobile sign from and I really didn’t know too much about Fisher Body until I got into my 20s.

Marilyn Coulter:	[2:35] What was it like growing up in a city where factories were?

Monte Jackson:	It, it – when I grew up it wasn’t really a big issue.  It was just they were there and nobody really worried about’m.

Marilyn Coulter:	[2:47] Did you ever have any thoughts about the people who worked there?

Monte Jackson:	Um, I knew a lotta people that worked there.  In my neighborhood growin’ up, oh, I’d say maybe 20%, maybe a little bit less worked at the shop, so you kinda got to the flow when changeover came and when they had downtime and stuff like that, so.  And downtime is when, you know, they have time off work so, you know, you kinda got used to what goes on in the shop, you kinda knew a little bit about it.

Marilyn Coulter:	Okay.  [3:12] So, um, why did you hire in to Fisher Body?

Monte Jackson:	Um, actually, um, I got in line in 1979 was the year I graduated and, um, I got back outta line because I said to myself I don’t know if I want to work in a factory, so I got outta line.  Then I worked at Kroger’s until, um, ’84 and the money, the wages got to the point where, well, they’re makin’ a lot more over there so I had to go where the money was, so I got to the factory.

Marilyn Coulter:	[3:42] So what process did you go through?

Monte Jackson:	When I hired in, uh, they did all the hiring right out of the, um – well, actually the first time I got in line they did all the hiring out of Payroll at the shop but the second time I g-, got in line to get hired we were in, um, the unemployment office on Cedar Street and it was lined up maybe 3-1/2 city blocks long in line to get a job at, uh, Fisher Body.

Marilyn Coulter:	[4:05] So how long did you have to wait in line?

Monte Jackson:	Actually, um, I got up that morning, I called my older sister and I told her, I said I was goin’ over to get in line and it was like 5:00 in the morning and they didn’t start takin’ names until like 7.  Uh, we got in line and we were about halfway.  By the time we got there at 5, we were about halfway in that three-block radius, so altogether I say we were in line three, four hours.

Marilyn Coulter:	[4:30] So, um, how long did it take them to call you?

Monte Jackson:	Well, there was a lot of process first that, you know, you filled out a form at the unemployment office and, um, they did whatever processin’ they had to do and then they sent you back, uh, sayin’ that you were on, on the list.  Then you got a call from General Motors to come down and take a, I don’t know if I took a physical for, yeah, I must have taken a physical first and then, um, you know, if you passed the physical you go on to another step where you do an interview.  If you pass the interview, you go to your classes.  And then you, if you pass, you go through your classes, you get into General Motors.

Marilyn Coulter:	So you got in.

Monte Jackson:	Yes.

Marilyn Coulter:	[5:10] Your first day what did you think about the building then when you walked in?  What department did you hire in and what did you think?

Monte Jackson:	Um, I hired in at, in, uh, December and I came in the building and I was amazed ‘cause I had never been in a building as large as Fisher Body in my life.  I was scared.  I was intimidated.  I got on my job and for the first six months I came from the door straight to my job and never moved, never went to the bathroom and just did my job and left out because I was scared that I couldn’t find my way back to my job if I left it.  Um, [throat clearing] I hired in in, um, Paint Repair, which is a, uh, a high overtime and high-seniority job but at the time I hired in, they just needed a body.  So I worked in Paint Repair for six months and kinda got wet working 13 hours a day, six days a week in a, which was, went on for this, almost the entire six months I was there, um.

Marilyn Coulter:	[6:08] And what shift were you on?

Monte Jackson:	I was the night shift, second shift.

Marilyn Coulter:	[6:13] So 13 hours a day, second shift, what was it like?

Monte Jackson:	Well, it wasn’t so much the hours because I had always worked two jobs before.  Even when I worked at Kroger’s, I had worked at a video store, so it wasn’t so much the hours, it was just the, you know, it was just gettin’ used to bein’ in a factory setting ‘cause, um, people, most people don’t realize that workin’ in  a factory is different than any other job is because you have a, a time to do a job and a space to do a job and, and you got to do it, get it done, and move on to your next job, so.  And it may be sprayin’ a hood or paintin’ the fender, whatever, but you have to do it in your 52 seconds or whatever time they allotted you, so it was just, just, gettin’ used to General Motors pace versus, versus my pace.

Marilyn Coulter:	[7:00] So, um, what were the people like?

Monte Jackson:	Actually, the people were, that was, uh, the, the best thing, the good thing.  I remember, uh, you know, when I came in, you know, you’re scared so, you know, and they’re, they were all friendly, they were all, you know, more than willing to help you out, so the people were great, you know.  I met people and I got along well.  I never had a problem with the people at General Motors.

Marilyn Coulter:	S-, [7:24] were there any kind of, um, new hire initiations, any pranks were pulled?

Monte Jackson:	Well, the only, um, one that I could remember is the, everybody, it was the Christmas turkey.  Uh, I don’t know if you’ve heard of that one where “Did you get your Christmas turkey?  You got to go over to the Union Hall after work and get your Christmas turkey.”  And you realize that there’s nobody here and you’ve been got, you know.  And you’ve got the, um, “Go ask the foreman for a left-handed wrench” or somethin’ like that when they’re all the same.  So you know, it’s just those little cranks, uh, uh, pranks like that.  [laughter]

Marilyn Coulter:	[8:01] Um, so, uh, how did you learn your job?

Monte Jackson:	Um, most of it, it was like, um, you come [coughing] in and you work with, um, someone, uh, either a, uh, a person that does the job normally that you’re replacing or you would be trained by a, uh, a coordinator, which is someone that would, um, know all the jobs in the area and teach the people and give people breaks and he would break you in on the job.  And it was mostly at that time just on-the-job training, you learn as you, you went along with somebody.

Marilyn Coulter:	So you said you did your first six months in, um, the Repair...

Monte Jackson:	Right.

Marilyn Coulter:	...Department and, um, spraying or things like that.  [8:45] How long did you work in the Paint Department?

Monte Jackson:	I probably worked in the Paint Department anywhere from, um, 14 to 16 months, right in there and, um, I got bumped outta Paint and which means that, um, uh, the department was, um, reducin’ it’s staff so I had to level out into another department which was, uh, Body Shop and, um, I went down to Body Shop.

Marilyn Coulter:	[9:08] Now, um, one thing that I would like the people to know is Monty, how tall are you?

Monte Jackson:	[coughing] Um, 6’ 7”.

Marilyn Coulter:	[9:15] Now being 6’ 7” in an automotive factory, some of the jobs are done inside the vehicle, some of them are out, was there any kind of limitations because you were such a tall individual?

Monte Jackson:	Well, there’s no limitations to do your job but just you just do it in your way.  It’s like a lotta times when other people would have to climb in the car, I could lean into the car and do it.  When other people would have to go through the door, I could go through the window, you know.  So there’s, there’s, you know, you have to do the job the best way for you, you know, but I, I, I don’t think I’ve ever been restricted off.  I’ve only been restricted off one job is that when I went to Trim and they put in a door line and the, the carrier that ran overhead was lower than I was tall, so it was a work hazard so I – that’s the only job that I ever got restricted off because of my height.

Marilyn Coulter:	[10:10] Um, when you worked in, um, you went from Tr-, Paint to Body, what was that transition like for you?  What – was there a difference in the people?  Was there a difference in cultures..?

Monte Jackson:	Oh.

Marilyn Coulter:	...in areas?

Monte Jackson:	Oh yeah.  It’s totally different if you go from Paint to Body.  It’s a – Paint is a clean area, which means you have to wear special clothes.  You can’t just come in with, uh, you know, your street clothes.  You have to have coveralls, you have to wear rubber gloves, rubber boots ‘cause I was sprayin’.  When you go to Body Shop it’s you have to wear blue jeans, you have to wear long sleeve, long-sleeved shirts and it’s – Body Shop is a lot darker, it’s a lot – I don’t know how to put it.  It’s a lot gloomier down there.  And, um, and going down there from Paint and Paint is well lit because you’d have to see the cars to spray on them for quality reasons and Body Shop it’s, it’s more spot welding and, and banging and, and working with metal so it’s not as, as lit, as well lit, as clean, so it was, it was a big difference and it was something to get used to, you know.

Marilyn Coulter:	[11:16] So, um, what about the people?

Monte Jackson:	The people, you know, at, at Fisher Body, the people [inaudible 11:22] just, um, in Paint, um, if you’re sprayin’ you don’t – uh, I got more, you had more contact in Body Shop because it’s open.  In Paint you have certain areas that are closed off, so you don’t have as much direct contact all day but in Body Shop it’s like you can see people oh 50, 60 feet away, which in Paint, you know, you might have a [inaudible 11:43] or something [inaudible 11:44] clean room so it was just, you know, you saw more people all the time and there was more activity going on.  But the people were all, you know, you know, they’re all about the same and, you know, they’re all good people at Fisher Body.

Marilyn Coulter:	[11:55] Do you remember the first person that you met and your first supervisor?

Monte Jackson:	Um, the first person that I met, um, well, um, there was a bunch of new hires that we all came in together.  And I’m trying to think, um, matter of fact, uh, um, [Mark, um, Ludman 12:12] which was the, is the union rep now or was the union rep, he was the first person that, that, that showed me how to spray when I first came in to Paint Repair.  He was in the clear coat booth which is a, a paint you spray on the car, um, but, uh, he was the first person that I actually worked with and he was trying to tell me things about Fisher Body.  Um, my first foreman is, uh, you know, I can’t remember his name but he was, he was a character.  He used to, you know, growl at you and, and, and holler stuff out at you but he was a good guy but he was just, he was a rough, old time, you know, foreman which, you know, was fine and actually, uh, you know, I appreciated ‘cause he, you know.  He [inaudible 12:53] every now and then and holler at us and, you know, you, you know, you know, make sure we were doin’ our jobs and go out the other way but, you know.  And I, I can’t remember his name but I, I really enjoyed working with him though.

Marilyn Coulter:	[13:06] What were you meaning by when you say a rough, old time?

Monte Jackson:	Well, um, the foremens in Fisher Body have changed.  They’ve gone from more of a, you know, you come up through the ranks and become foreman to a, more you, you know, you come through college and then you come in and [inaudible 13:22] which is a, you know, the, the old-time foremen seemed to know the jobs and the people better than the new foremens and so you just, you just have a better feel.  I, at least I have a better feel for the older foremens that have been around a while.

Marilyn Coulter:	[13:37] So what types of things went on in those departments?  Now d- did you also work in the Trim Department also?

Monte Jackson:	Yes.  I worked in Trim for, oh, six years.

Marilyn Coulter:	Six years.  [13:50] So as you worked in those different departments, what types of things did, um, you do to pass the time while you were working?

Monte Jackson:	Well...

Marilyn Coulter:	[13:59] Or, or what did you do for breaks?

Monte Jackson:	I was gonna say ‘cause usually when you’re workin’, you know, that’s passing your time but, uh, on breaks [inaudible 14:05] it used to be a lot more, you know, uh, open.  It used to be a lot more, um, how should I put it?  Friendly, laughter going on because break time was your time but now it seems like since 9/11 that, you know, GM, you know, in, in order to keep its plants safer kinda, um, cut down the amount of, you know, parties, you know.  You used to come in and have every Friday they, somebody would cook and you would have some party of some sort but now it’s like you have to get permission to do anything of that sort and it kinda takes the fun out of it, you know, but so we used to have parties.  We used to play cards, you know.  Um, you know, you’d sit there and listen to the radio, you know, just anything to get through your lunch or whatever.

Marilyn Coulter:	[14:50] So what types of, what, what parties, things that were catered in, did people cook their own things?

Monte Jackson:	Well, it was kinda, it was kinda like it was potluck most of the time, 90% of the time it was potluck.  Sometimes we’d all order pizza together and, you know, and it wouldn’t have to be for any particular reason.  It was Friday, you know, so we’re eatin’, you know, so it wasn’t, you know, so formal but, you know, and every now and then we would have something catered in if it was like a retirement or something like that, somebody was leavin’ and goin’ to a different job or somethin’, so it just it kinda depended on the situation.

Marilyn Coulter:	[15:21] [Inaudible 15:21] for holidays also?

Monte Jackson:	And that was, oh yeah, holidays, yeah, there was always a potluck on for every holiday from Easter to Halloween to Christmas to Fourth of July there was always somethin’ we had.

Doreen Howard:	Um...

Marilyn Coulter:	Doreen.

Doreen Howard:	Doreen, Doreen Howard.  Um, you hired in in ’84.  [15:40] Um, uh, during your timeframe at the plant, um, what were some of the changes that impacted you as far as, um, the environment and your surroun-, your physical surroundings as well as, um, uh, the supervisory changes that have occurred over the years?

Monte Jackson:	Well, the most changes, uh, have been the, um, the robots, um, the automation, um, is just, you know, just the, um, there’s, there’s so much as far as the, the amount of people there.  When I hired in, there was almost 7000 people your day shift and night shift workin’ and from that to I think we had like 3500 or so when, when I, when, um, we shut down, excuse me, when we shut down that, um, that was, that was the biggest [inaudible 16:27], the amount of people that you’re around on a day-to-day basis.  Um, the foremens like I said, you, you, you go from a foreman that’s worked the line, come up through the changes, knows what it’s like to be on the line to a foreman that comes from who knows, um, Alaska or somewhere that’s gone to school and had his, got his degree and everythin’ like that and comes in and, you know, talkin’ to him it’s,  you know, it’s like kinda talkin’ to someone that, that speaks a different language because they’re used to doin’ things from out of a book and you’re used to doin’ things from how it happens on the line.

Doreen Howard:	[17:02] Is there any, um, significant memory, good, [throat clearing] bad, happy, sad that, that you can think of that impacted your time at Fisher Body?

Monte Jackson:	Oh, oh, yeah.  There’s, you know, there’s tons.  I mean, you know, I, you know, I, I’ve worked with people there that I’ve, I’ve, I’ve known for, you know, 20 years, you know.  They’re, you know, they’re havin’ their kids when I had my son, um, you know.  I, I remember, you know, my, my son was born, I had been workin’ at General Motors for 2 years, 2 1/2 years and, uh, you know, the people there they, you know, they brought me gifts for my son and everythin’ like that.  There’s just a ton of memories.  Um, you know, some of the friends there, you know, I’ve gone to their weddings, you know.  It’s, you know, um, I remember when, uh, we stopped making the, the first Grand – when I hired in we were, there was, you know, when Grand Am first came out, the model, we stopped makin’ it and went to a different body type.  That was, you know, it was kinda,  you know, sentimental because, you know, I was here when this one started, now we’re goin’ to a different body type but, you know, just like now we’ve closed it down, so there’s a lot of different moments that you remember.

Marilyn Coulter:	Um, you, um, Monte, uh, there’s a lot of different moments that you had, um, when you [inaudible 18:16].  [18:17] Now did you, did you meet your wife in the plant or what does your wife do?

Monte Jackson:	No, no, no.  My – uh, I met my wife, uh, actually my brother introduced me to my wife on a blind date.  Uh, he was seein’ her cousin and she was kinda the third wheel so he called me up and said “Monte, would you come and, uh, go out with me and, and my cousin’s, my girlfriend’s cousin?”  And I went out and I met her and she’s originally from New York and we started dating and he dumped her cousin and we got married.  So, uh, [laughter] uh, and, uh, so I, uh, so she’s never worked – she works for the State of Michigan so she’s never worked at the shop or anything like that and, um, so it’s kind of, kind of a different environment.

Marilyn Coulter:	So she works for the State of Michigan, [19:00] I’m assuming she worked days?

Monte Jackson:	Yes.  She works days and I’ve always worked nights.

Marilyn Coulter:	[19:04] How – did that make it difficult having, working separate shifts?

Monte Jackson:	Well, a lot of people say it does.  I think it, I think it makes it easier because, you know, you know, you have your weekends and you have your time together but you don’t have so much time together that you’re, uh, you know, you’re, you get on each other’s nerves, you know.  It made it easier for when my son was born because I was there during the day and she was there during the night, so we never had to get a babysitter, you know, so it was, you know, it was, it was nice.  I, I’ve always enjoyed it this way.

Marilyn Coulter:	Now you said your brothers, [19:35] how many siblings do you have?

Monte Jackson:	Um, I have five brothers and four sisters.

Marilyn Coulter:	Wow.   [19:42] Um, out of those 10 siblings, um, are there any, do you have any others that work [inaudible 19:47]?

Monte Jackson:	Um, I have one sister that works here that I, that I got in line and, uh, hired in on the same day five minutes apart from.  Um, she works at General Motors and [throat clearing] other than that I, I don’t have any, none of my brothers or sisters worked for General Motors but I have cousins and uncles and aunts that do.

Marilyn Coulter:	[20:07] So, um, do they also work in Fisher Body also or they work for General Motors?

Monte Jackson:	Um, no, um, actually at the Fisher Body I have, um, I think I have four cousins, I had a uncle that was a foreman and I have a aunt that worked in Paint Repair.

Marilyn Coulter:	[20:22] So who was your uncle who was a foreman?

Monte Jackson:	Um, Uncle Cook, Alex Cook.

Marilyn Coulter:	Alex Cook...?

Monte Jackson:	Yes.

Marilyn Coulter:	...is your uncle?

Monte Jackson:	Yes, my uncle, yes.

Marilyn Coulter:	[chuckling]

Monte Jackson:	Yeah.

Marilyn Coulter:	Alex Cook was one of my favorite supervisors.

Monte Jackson:	Oh, he’s a good guy.  He can cook too.  [laughter]

Marilyn Coulter:	It runs, it does run in the family.

Monte Jackson:	Yes, yes.

Marilyn Coulter:	Um, with bein’ – um, okay, go ahead.

Doreen Howard:	Doreen Howard.  [20:42] Um, over the time that you worked at our facility, did you ever buy any of the vehicles that you actually made?

Monte Jackson:	Well, I’ve never.  Um, my wife’s had two of Grand Ams.

Doreen Howard:	Mm-hm.

Monte Jackson:	I’ve never driven one ‘cause I’m too big for the cars [laughter] that I build but, but, uh, if I, if I, if I could’ve, um, I would’ve bought a Grand Am but it’s just too small a car for me.  I’ve driven Suburbans and, um, large vehicles.

Doreen Howard:	Large vehicles.  Okay [inaudible 21:07].

Marilyn Coulter:	[21:09] Being in the factory and having, um, worked in all those different areas, um, being a 6’ 7” African American male d-, did it, how was that for you and how would you say that the climate was as far as gender and racial issues?

Monte Jackson:	Um, I, um, it’s, it’s kinda hard askin’ me because, um, um, it’s just, it’s kinda slanted for me because being a 6’ 7” black male, I don’t have to deal with so much, um, static that other people get ‘cause most people leave me alone, you know.  [laughter] You know, so I’ve had, you know, I’ve never, I’ve, you know, I’ve worked at General Motors for like I say 21, 20 years and, um, I’ve just never, I’ve never ran into any, well, any racism or anything like that that I could, that I could see but I’ve talked to people and I’ve seen situations that I thought looked kinda funny but, you know, to me.  And I don’t know if it’s the times are changin’ or if it’s just that, you know, I, you know, but even in life I just seem to not have a problem with racial issues.

Marilyn Coulter:	Insofar, now you did say that there were changes and that you said that there were automotive changes, stuff like that, [22:23] did you see any types of changes in terms of how we did the business with employee involvement in the processes and were you involved in any of those processes?

Monte Jackson:	Yes, I was involved with some of the processes.  Some of the processes I think are, are just, um, make work processes but, um, some of’m I think were good and some, you know, some were bad but, um, you know, you go through’m, you know, and you get what you can out of’m, you know.  You just have, you have to learn also ‘cause General Motors is changing so much, you know, from week to week through month to month that a lot of stuff that, that’s in this week might not be in next week so you can’t, um, like I say, marry yourself to any situation or any particular way of doing a job or any, you know, [inaudible 23:09].

Marilyn Coulter:	[23:10] S-, so, um, what types of processes were you personally involved in?

Monte Jackson:	Oh, I’ve, uh, what do you, um, as far as, um, the, uh, uh, I’m tryin’ to think now.   You gave me quite a good question I wasn’t ready for.  Um, let me see.  [chuckling] Um, well, you know, you go through your first time build classes and stuff like that.  You go through, um, you know, you know, safety classes or quality work classes and I’m trying to think of the names of the different stuff that I’ve been through and, uh...

Marilyn Coulter:	[23:40] Were you proc-...?

Monte Jackson:	Hm?

Marilyn Coulter:	...part of any of the employee group participation courses?

Monte Jackson:	Um, no.  No, I wasn’t.

Marilyn Coulter:	Okay.  Um, I know they had a suggestion program.  [23:50] Did you ever...?

Monte Jackson:	Oh yeah.  [chuckling] I’ve put in many suggestions, yes.

Marilyn Coulter:	[23:54] And, um, did – were the, were your suggestions used?

Monte Jackson:	Um, well, um, let me see.  I think, uh, I probably put in maybe 15 or 20 since I’ve been here at the shop and I think two have been.  One, one was a safety issue that they had a, a pop machine set up facing the door as it opened so you had to have your head right by the door while you’re leaning to the pop machine and it was just to move the pop machine and they did it, so that was one of them.  We had one where I actually got paid for where it was a, it, we were puttin’, um, tape on a, a piece of a, a [inaudible 24:31] a molding or somethin’ like that to hold it on and we didn’t need the amount of tape so we cut the tape in half and I think I got $350 for that, which was, you know, wasn’t, wasn’t a lotta money but it was, it was nice.

Doreen Howard:	Doreen Howard.  Um, you hired in in the ’84 timeframe.  [24:50] Um, during your, uh, tenure with General Motors were you ever laid off?

Monte Jackson:	Oh yeah.  I’ve been laid off, uh, well, c-, counting right now, twice since I’ve been at General Motors.  Well, other than the short layoffs ‘cause, you know, you go through your, you know, you might be laid off for two weeks and two weeks out and stuff like that, which I don’t consider a real layoff.  I was laid off for, um, almost two years back in ’86 and then, um, now I got laid off in, um, 2003 and I’ve been off now for almost 16 months, so, you know, [inaudible 25:25] those are layoffs.  The little two weeks here and there, the slow, durin’ the slowdowns and stuff like, so if you want to count those, I’ve probably been laid off maybe seven or eight times but it’s – those were just short and it really didn’t affect anything.

Doreen Howard:	[25:39] During the – your timeframe of layoff, how did, how did that affect your lifestyle?

Monte Jackson:	Um, actually,  I’m kinda lucky [inaudible 25:48] because it, um, the, the first one kinda affected me more than any, any one because I, I wasn’t, uh, it was my first layoff so I wasn’t really sure what was goin’ to happen.  You’re scared because you’re gettin’ laid off.  Is this the end of my job?  You know, they, they take your timecard and everythin’ like that.  You’re handin’ all your tools and stuff like that.  It’s like, you know, [inaudible 26:08] so you go out and I went out and I got another job and everything.  I went back to workin’ two jobs again, so you know, and, you know, I wasn’t sure that I would ever come back, so that was scary.  Um, then as you, you know, you, you know, the other layoffs, you know, you pretty much knew that you were comin’ back.  This time right here, I knew that I was comin’ back.  So the first one affected me.  It was, it was scary and I, you know, I, I had to make some changes and stuff but, you know, I got through it so it was, it was all right.

Doreen Howard:	[26:35] How did the – with the plant closing, how did that personally affect you with the recent...?

Monte Jackson:	Oh.

Doreen Howard:	...closing and knowing that they’re gonna, um, demolition this particular building?

Monte Jackson:	Well, you know, you’re always gonna miss Fisher Body where you started off, you know, where you made so many friends.  I mean just, you know, just the look of the building when you come up, you, you know it in your sleep, you know, you know.  It’s like, uh, I miss the coach, you know, seeing the coach when I come in, you know.  It’s – you’re gonna miss a lotta things.  You’re gonna miss the old cafeteria.  You’re gonna miss the, you know, the raggedy building, the different things about it.  But, uh – and, you know, you know, I was sad, you know, when I walked outta there and, and knew that I wasn’t ever, ever comin’ back in this place again and you know, you’re sad, you know.  But, you know, like I said, with General Motors, you, you know, you realize that you have to move on and change, so it wasn’t that bad.

Doreen Howard:	You, you touched base on, um, the coach.  [27:25] Um, can you explain what that is and, and what that represented to the workforce?

Monte Jackson:	Oh.  Okay.  Yeah.  Well, I guess back in the late 1800s, you know, early 1900s, GM used to, I mean Fisher Body was a separate co-, company itself and they used to just build actually coaches that were pulled by horses and, um, then they, you know, they, then they sold the coaches and everything like that and then when they started building cars they kept the logo as a, as the [inaudible 27:52] coach and stamped it on each car body that they built.  And we built just the body part.  The underbody, the wheels and the tranny and the motors was put on an Oldsmobile across town.  So it, it was kind of a source of pride when you saw that coach on any body that you saw out in the street and everything like that, you know, so.  And, and, uh, they stopped doing that I think in, um, ’87 or something like that, I’m not sure.  But, uh, that, that was actually, that was probably the most traumatic, um, thing since I was at Fisher Body because when those cars came down the line and you didn’t see that coach on there, it really did kinda hurt, so, you know, a-, a-, actually that was the most traumatic thing.

Doreen Howard:	Over the, uh, years of the Fisher Body plant, they were known as the Capital of Quality.

Monte Jackson:	Yes.

Doreen Howard:	[28:39] Um, what do you feel, uh, is the reason for everyone’s, uh, view of the Capital of Quality?  Uh, how do you think they, the people in our plant are represented by [throat clearing] that statement?

Monte Jackson:	Well, I think it’s, it’s a good representation.  I think, I think you go in there and I think everybody, I think 99% of the people that walk through that door want to build a quality car.  And I think, you know, and I remember when I first hired in, there’s people down the line, you know, you missed this, I got it for you, I’ll pick it up and, pick it up  [inaudible 29:15] fix it for you and make sure your job is done right.  There’s, there was always someone looking over your shoulder.  Um, I think, um, I think our quality kinda got hurt a little bit when they, they went away from so much as of giving you time to be able to, to, to fix somethin’ that was done wrong and sayin’ that somethin’ has to be done right, so when somethin’ was missed that, you know, it, it didn’t get picked up.  But I think they’re starting to realize that, well, at least it seems that they, they might be picking up that you got to give people time to, uh, be able to fix something [inaudible 29:48].
 
Marilyn Coulter:	Marilyn Coulter.  [29:51] While we’re talking about the people and the jobs, what would you say is the biggest misconception about Lansing Fisher Body autoworkers?

Monte Jackson:	Well, um, my biggest peeve, my pet peeve is, um, we’re all [inaudible 30:04] beer drinkers and bowlers.  And, you know, and, uh, and, and, and if you come in the shop, you know, and I, my wife, like I said, my wife works for the State for Michigan, you know.  There’s just as many people that go to church every day, that, you know, have your families that, that, you know, that have gone to college, that, um, do different things, build cars, build houses.  I mean there’s, there’s so many di-, – I mean like I always tell everybody, I said if I ever need anything done, all I have to do is go down the line and there’s somebody at Fisher Body that knows someone or does that that works in the shop that can help you out with it, um, it’s just so diverse.  Um, and, you know, every time I hear that, it just, it really upsets me because, you know, I don’t think that, that there’s any more alcoholism or drug addiction in Fisher Body than there is at, at any other major company in the world, so, it’s you know, I just hate it when people say that in the press.

Marilyn Coulter:	I know you said the thing about church.  [30:58] Were there many Bible study groups that you noticed in the plant?

Monte Jackson:	Oh yeah.  There was, there was always, there was always some Bible study groups and different meetings and different, um, fellowship things going on if you want to get involved with’m and stuff.  So there’s, there’s always, there’s always people you can go to [inaudible 31:12] set up at Fisher Body that you could go to if you had problems, so, you know, there was a lot of support there if you needed it.

Marilyn Coulter:	[31:19] What would you say is, was the most, um, fascinating thing that you found out that one of your coworkers did?

Monte Jackson:	Oh, let me see.  Well, like I said, I, I worked with a guy that was a builder that built houses.  I mean he was a contractor.  I mean he built the whole house from ground up.   Um, I thought – ‘cause I love workin’ on my house and everythin’ like that, so I thought that was really fascinating but then I have worked with guys that, that have, um, built cars from scratch and, you know, you know, ordered a kit in and took it out of the box piece by piece and, and built a car, you know, so there’s different.  I worked with a guy that was a lawyer, you know.  And, uh, and so it, it was just,  you know, there’s, there’s not one person but there’s just so many different things that you’re shocked, everythin’ like that, you know, so it was, it was just a lotta things.

Marilyn Coulter:	So now you said you worked with somebody who was a, who was a lawyer.

Monte Jackson:	Yes, when I first...

Marilyn Coulter:	S-...

Monte Jackson:	...hired in in Trim, when I first when to Trim I was workin’ with a guy and he, he had passed the bar and everythin’ like that and he was a lawyer.

Marilyn Coulter:	So actually there’s a lot of educated people...

Monte Jackson:	Yes.

Marilyn Coulter:	...in the plant...

Monte Jackson:	Yes.

Marilyn Coulter:	...that the people don’t realize.

Monte Jackson:	They don’t realize.

Marilyn Coulter:	Now I, I personally know something about you.  [32:21] Now you have a pretty special hobby that’s also become a business for yourself, is that correct?

Monte Jackson:	Yes.

Marilyn Coulter:	[32:27] And that is?

Monte Jackson:	I, I cater.  I do a lot of, I do a lot of parties.  I do a lot of retirements.  I do maybe one to two weddings a year de-, uh, depending on the year.  Um, um, I, you know, I say it’s the kinda work I, that I say, you know, you go to cater a wedding or somethin’ and it’s just like goin’ to a party, so it never feels like you’re working.  Um, I, I’ve been, I’ve been, I was head baker at Kroger’s for 15 years before I came to General Motors so, you know, I’ve been around food and baking and cooking and so it’s always been fun.

Marilyn Coulter:	[33:01] So did you cook for a lot of the retirements of your coworkers?

Monte Jackson:	Yes.  I’ve done – yes, since I’ve been, since I’ve been laid off, I’ve done about six or seven retirements for the people that, that retired since I’ve got off.  And while I was working, I, I, it seems like every other month I was doin’ some kind of retirement or, or party for somebody in the shop.

Doreen Howard:	Um, during your time up in Paint when you first came in, um, my husband also worked in, in Paint in there even prior to when you came in and he talked about people actually cooking food in, in the ovens and things like that.

Monte Jackson:	Oh yeah.  [chuckling] 

Doreen Howard:	[33:36] Were you ever involved in anything...?

Monte Jackson:	Well...

Doreen Howard:	...like, like that...?

Monte Jackson:	I [inaudible 33:38].

Doreen Howard:	...up there in that area when you came in?

Monte Jackson:	Oh.

Doreen Howard:	I wasn’t sure if that was something...

Monte Jackson:	Well, we, you know, we, um...

Doreen Howard:	...that they were doing.

Monte Jackson:	...we cooked up there but Paint wasn’t, um – running through the ovens and everything, we never did that.  We heard of people doin’ stuff like that.  We never did that but we heard of people.  We were more or less, when I was in Paint, um, we’d just bring everything in prepared and everything like that because Paint it’s, it’s, it’s, there’s the fumes and the, the chemicals and stuff up there.  It’s, it’s just, it’s not a place to cook in, you know.  But when I was in Body Shop in Trim, oh yeah, we, we’d fry fish, you know, there’s people fryin’ fish.  And there was, uh, uh, the, uh, where the cars came out of where they were washed, there was a big vacuum that sucks all the steam and the hot air up out of the, out of the body shop and, um, there was people actually over there grillin’, you know.  You’d get your steak grilled, you know, get your potato salad, you can get your rolls and everythin’ like that, so there was a lot more serious cooking done in Paint and in Trim than it was in – I mean, excuse me – Body and Trim than it was in Paint.

Doreen Howard:	There was quite a few people who had their own little businesses within a business inside of the shop that they had coffees or, or pastries or some type of snacks.  [34:49] Were you ever involved in anything like that?

Monte Jackson:	Well, I ne-, uh – actually, I, I, I brought in pop for a while but I didn’t get involved in that much.  But I remember when I first came down to Body Shop, there was a guy that actually had a store down there where you could buy anything from toothpaste to aspirin to, to pliers, lighters.  I mean if anything that you might need durin’ the night, he had there in his shop and I, I bet you he had like a wall packed 20 feet long, 10 foot high of different junk, sunglasses, anything.  So, um, there were some guys in here, you know, that had quite, quite big businesses going on, you know.  And it was, it was in, you, you kinda missed those because it was, you know, things that, you know the vendor machines they, they have things but it’s nothin’ like, you know, going in, payin’ your money, gettin’ your cash back, you know, then waitin’ for it to go through a machine and, and having so much different variety, so yeah, you kinda miss those guys.

Doreen Howard:	Uh, I wanted to take you back to when, when you first hired in, you said you were in the Paint Mix group.  Um, for the most part that was generally something that was a high-seniority...

Monte Jackson:	Yeah.

Doreen Howard:	...position.  Um, and I heard a lot of stories over the years of, uh, people having bets and having [chuckling] all kinds of, uh, food, refrigerators, you name it.  [36:12]  Uh, can, can you talk to...?

Monte Jackson:	Well...

Doreen Howard:	...that aspect of the...?

Monte Jackson:	Well, yeah, that’s where...

Doreen Howard:	...Paint Mix?

Monte Jackson:	...where I sold pop, that was when I was in Paint Repair because Paint Repair is, like you have to realize, if the line is running good that means if your, your cars are coming through and everything is, is going right, then there’s nothin’ to do in Repair ‘cause there’s no repair, you know, so you have downtime.  You may have blocks of hours of downtime, two, three hours at a time but, you know, when, when the line is running good you’re, you’re, um, you’re workin’, when it’s, uh, we’re havin’ a bad day but so that gives people time.  Yeah.

There was, I remember a guy making a, uh, a, a – how would I – a living room set out of the cardboard boxes, [chuckling] you know, just, [throat clearing] you know, taped and wrapped and taped and wrapped and it had a nice couch, end tables.  And there was, yeah, there were refrigerators and stuff like that there.   Um, um, it was funny too, it’s like ‘cause, um, these guys were like just bringin’ the, uh, the coil from their refrigerator that they were throwin’ out or somethin’ at home and, and, and wired into their, their locker and make it into a refrigerator cooler and stuff.  So there was a lot of things going on and there was, there was, um, chairs and beds and everything like that, you know.  And it was funny too ‘cause it was like you could be, you could come into the, uh, Paint spray room when the line was empty and you would see no one there.  It would be just empty and everythin’ like that.  One car come down and, and in a matter of a minute there’d be 60 guys standing around waiting to do their jobs and everything like that ‘cause they would climb out of different little hollows they had here and there and bear caved yourself under, under, under tables and stuff like that, so it was, it was quite funny and it was, you know, it was kinda, it was good times, so.

Doreen Howard:	Um, you, you touched base on, um, people making things while they’re in there.  [37:54] Um, during your timeframe there, did you ever have any Skilled Tradespeople or anyone else, uh, or you personally make, make any government jobs for yourself?  [laughter]

Monte Jackson:	Government jobs, yeah, that’s, yeah, yeah.  I haven’t had a lot of those.  Government job is when there’s, uh, uh, like I worked with a couple of skilled [inaudible 38:12] over the summertime which are, which are, we have a two-week shutdown period and it depends longer if we’re having a model change, that’s where you change over your body style but, uh, where there’s the foreman hasn’t given you a job assignment yet so you had some time.  So they, instead of you sayin’ I’m gonna do something for myself, it’s called government work and you might go build a table or a special chair or, or, you know, just different stuff that, you know, somebody needed in the shop,  you know.  And there was a lot of that going on, you know, ‘cause if, if, if a job was gonna start for another two hours, well, that means I got two hours to build me a, a special bench with a chair that reclines and you know, with padding on it or somethin’, so yeah, there was a lot of those going on.

Doreen Howard:	[chuckling] [38:56] Um, is there anything that we haven’t touched base on that, that you would like to share with us?

Monte Jackson:	Oh, let me see.  I, uh, I’d like to say a little bit more about the, uh, the, uh, the foremens.  Um, you know, I worked at General Motors for 20 years and it’s like it’s, it’s funny that you don’t have the, um, same, um, give and take between the employee and the foremens now that you did when I first hired in.  And I, you know, I don’t, you know, I think it’s a shame but, you know, there used to be better, um, communications but, you know, GM is going in one way right now and, you know, but that’s the only big problem I see is, is if they continue not to have foremens that understand the job and understand the people before they give them, uh, uh, the power to, to assign different jobs and give tasks to people, so, you know.  But other than that, it’s, it’s been a good experience at General Motors.

Doreen Howard:	Um...

Marilyn Coulter:	Monty, we’ve talked about the supervisors.  [39:59] What about your union activities?  Were you ever involved in the union at all?

Monte Jackson:	I’m not.  Well, I, I, when I worked at, uh, Kroger’s I was a union steward but since I’ve been at Fisher Body, I just haven’t had, um, I just, I, I haven’t had the, um, ambition I should say to, to, to get involved more rather than go in and voting and, you know, and going to, I’ve, I’ve been here 20 years and I bet you I’ve been to less than 20 meetings, yes, which is, you know, which is bad, you know and, um, and I know it’s bad.  I did, I have taken some, some labor law and labor bargaining classes since I’ve been off right now and I, and I do realize that that is, uh, is a problem with the membership so, you know, I am hoping to change but, you know, in the pa-, in the past I haven’t been really active.

Marilyn Coulter:	All right.

Doreen Howard:	Um, I...

Marilyn Coulter:	What – oh.

Doreen Howard:	Doreen Howard.  Um, I had another question.  [40:51] Um, were you ever involved in doing any of the, the check pools or, or any of that kind of stuff that, that, uh, a lot of the people took up, uh, collections for football or, or any of the different sporting...?

Monte Jackson:	Oh yeah.

Doreen Howard:	...events that, that they used to do?

Monte Jackson:	Yeah.  I think everybody’s gotten into the check pool where, you know, high change wins, you know, the closest one to 99 cents wins.  And you bet above, you know, and they’ve gone, you know, they were from above all the way up to like maybe $5, you know, for our check pool.  Then you had your foo-, football squares where I, I only played the $5 ones because I’m cheap but [laughter] they went anywhere from $5 up to you get, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve heard of’m in there being $100 a square which you could win thousands of dollars.  I’ve, I’ve never played.  I’m just not that big a gambler so, [chuckling] you know.  And I, I have heard of those.

And, and I do remember when I first hired in there was a guy that would come around and, uh, you know, cash your checks for you and everything like that, you know, right there on the job and everything.  He’d come in with six or seven thousand dollars and cash people’s checks up and down the line and everything like that, you know, but that’s, that’s all changed.  I, I, I think they still have a lot of the, uh, the check pools but it’s just small groups now.  It’s not like it used to be.  It used to be if you got a check it was, it might be two, two hundred people in that check pool, you know, but now it’s mainly a, a group, so you might have 15, 20 people at the most, so it’s, it’s different.  It’s a lot different than when I hired in.

Marilyn Coulter:	Monty, last question.  [42:21] As we get ready to go to the new facility, what’s the biggest thing you think you’re going to miss about Fisher Body Lansing on Verlinden?

Monte Jackson:	Um, I’m gonna miss the old school ways.  I’m gonna miss, uh, I’m just, I’m, I’m, uh, I’m gonna miss the ways, uh, that things, how things were done, you know.  I remember, you know, a lotta good times, a lotta, you know, where we got things done without management and union and employees being at each other’s throats where it was all just worked out, you know, you know.  You need a fan, well, okay, the foreman will just go and order you a fan.  Now, you know, it might take you six months to get a fan when you’re working outside of the oven.  It just, it seems like the, the, the more, uh, changes make the, the more, the harder it is to make changes, so it just takes longer now for things to get done, to get things changed once they’re put in place.  So I’m gonna, I’m, I’m gonna miss the old school of doin’ things where, you know, if it needs to be fixed, we fix it in place of, well, we have to get three engineers down here and call up, you know, headquarters and get this okayed and stuff so.  And it’s – and you know and I know there’s a lotta reasons for that but I’m gonna miss the old ways.

Marilyn Coulter:	All right.

Doreen Howard:	Um, one last question.  [43:37]  Um, can you, uh, give me your reaction I guess to the, um, demolition of the Fisher Body facility?  How does that personally affect you?

Monte Jackson:	You know I’m still, I’m still hoping that, you know, every time I drive by there I’m still hopin’ they find a reason to keep that open.  I’m still hopin’ that they won’t.  I know, I know it’s going to be tear, torn down.  And I know when I, when I drive by there and it’s an empty field or it’s, it’s, it’s houses or condos or whatever they do put there or a golf course, [throat clearing] I’m gonna, you know, always remember there and I’m gonna miss going by there and seein’ it.  I even drive by with my son every now and then and I show him and he looks up and wonders and says how big it is but, you know, he’ll be goin’ by the new plant and he’ll be sayin’ the same thing too, so [inaudible 44:24] change but I will miss the building and it is sad to see it go.

Marilyn Coulter:	All I can say is if you have no other things.

Monte Jackson:	No comments.

Doreen Howard:	Okay.  All right.

Marilyn Coulter:	Thank you for your time.

Doreen Howard:	Thank you.

Monte Jackson:	All right.  Thank you.


/mlc