Edward Lazarus discussed his career as a production worker, quality control shipping clerk, and UAW member at the Fisher Body plant in Lansing, MI Cheryl McQuaid: [humming sound in background throughout audio] This is Cheryl McQuaid. [papers shuffling] It's, uh, 7:10 a.m., [grinding sound] October 11, 2005. We're in Lansing Car Assembly's Dock 15 and we're about to interview Edward Lazarus. [0:17] Ed, will you please state your name and address for the record and spell your last name, please? Edward Lazarus: Edward Lazarus, L-a-z-a-r-u-s. 3105 West Willow, Lansing, 48917. [tapping sound] Cheryl McQuaid: [0:32] And what date did you hire in at Fisher Body? Edward Lazarus: September 22, 1969. [tapping sound] Cheryl McQuaid: [0:39] Do you remember the first day you walked in this [tapping sound] building? Edward Lazarus: I remember the first day [chuckle] I walked in here. Cheryl McQuaid: [0:43] Can you tell me a little bit about it? [tapping sound] Edward Lazarus: Well, actually, uh, I was coerced into coming here by my cousin who is since deceased. Uh, I'm sure a number of people in here know Fred Billings, uh, actually was a cousin of mine, and he bugged me for about 3 months "come down here and go to work." I said, "They won't hire me." He said, "Yes, they will." He said, "They're hiring everybody that walk through the door." Well, ta get him to leave me alone, I filled out an application, he turned it in and brought me [papers shuffling] down here and, and the rest is history. Cheryl McQuaid: [1:15] So where did you hire in at? Edward Lazarus: Um, I hired in, uh, workin' up in, uh – well A, A Line, um, repair actually. Cheryl McQuaid: Wow, good job. Edward Lazarus: Yeah, it was a good job. Cheryl McQuaid: [1:31] What did you do? Edward Lazarus: Uh, a job they call blackout. It was, uh, uh, adjusting the door glass. Cheryl McQuaid: [1:38] And that was called blackout? Edward Lazarus: Well, you know, when, when the window lays up against the seal strip, it has a black line around it, and that's why they called it blackout. Cheryl McQuaid: Oh [1:49]. And how long did you have that job? Edward Lazarus: Well, I was on that for about a year and then I transferred to Quality Control. Cheryl McQuaid: [2:00] So was – what, what kind of initiation did you get when – I mean, was there an initiation? When you walked in this plant did, did anybody pull any pranks on ya, was it just kinda just come to work [scraping sound in background] and…? Edward Lazarus: Well, actually, they, they kinda sorta did. Uh, the worst one was my first supervisor, uh, [Karl Shultz 2:22], who is since deceased also. But, uh, the very first – th, the second week I worked here, come around payday on Thursday night, [inaudible 2:34] I, I was 18 years old, and I was a green kid from the country, ya know, I really was looking forward to that first paycheck. And pretty soon all the guys I worked with, they start lookin' at their checks and, and finally I said to'm, I said, "Where'd you get your check?" They said, "Oh, the boss has got'm down there." And I said, "Oh, well how do ya get it?" "Why [don't ya just 2:54] go down there and ask him for it." So I walked down there and, and I kinda st-, stood around there hanging my head 'cause I was real shy in those days. And, uh, finally he looked at me, says, "What do you want?" I said, "Well, I was kinda sorta wonderin' if I could get my paycheck." He reached back in his back pocket and he pulled the checks out and he leafed through'm and he says, "Here." He says, "If you don't straighten up, you're not gonna get another one a them." And boy I tell ya what, I was scared. [laughter] Edward Lazarus: I was scared. If, if anybody, [inaudible 3:33] if any a you folks ever knew Karl Shultz, he, he was quite a practical joker. Cheryl McQuaid: [3:38] So apparently you got more checks? Edward Lazarus: [Inaudible 3:42], yeah. [laughter] Edward Lazarus: The other guys I worked with, I went back there [I said, 3:40] "Oh, the boss is mad at me." [I said, 3:44] "I don't know what's, what's gonna happen." And I was sure I was gonna get fired. I was sure. And they, and they were all laughin' at me [saying "Ah 3:54] don’t pay any attention to him." Cheryl McQuaid: [3:58] So you mentioned that Fred Billings is your cousin and he worked here. Did you have any other family that worked here? [papers shuffling] Edward Lazarus: My oldest brother worked here [clunking sound] a long time before I did. He – I think he hired in about 1961, and he quit [tapping sound] about '63 or 4. He didn't work here very long. Cheryl McQuaid: [4:15] And where were you raised? Edward Lazarus: Oh… Cheryl McQuaid: [4:18] In the area or…? Edward Lazarus: Well, I was actually born in Flint and, uh, I grew up on a farm up northwest of here about 50 miles till my folks divorced and then I moved around a lot after that. My, my mother moved to Tennessee and, and then Florida [clicking sound]. So I went to a lot of different places. Cheryl McQuaid: [4:38] Um, how long did ya work in your repair job? Edward Lazarus: I only worked that about a year and then I transferred into Quality Control, and I was in QC for a long time, 14, 15 years. Cheryl McQuaid: [4:51] What kinda jobs did ya do in QC? [papers shuffling] Edward Lazarus: Everything. I – for a long time I worked utility, relief. [tapping sound] I, I never liked doing the same thing every day [tapping sound], so I always liked utility. Cheryl McQuaid: And you did QC for a long time. [5:13] Can – do you have any special memories? Edward Lazarus: Well, actually, ye-, I kinda do. Uh, one a, one a the things I remember and, and it was a practice that I don't know where it got started but it always seemed like the last day before Christmas – the Christmas shutdown every year – everybody on Quality Control would always get dressed up. The, the gals would all wear dresses to work, the, and the guys would wear a tie and suit. And I don't know when that started or how long it lasted, but I haven't seen'm do it for years. But we always used to do that. And then, of course, we always had holiday dinners and, and, uh – and Quality Control people always kinda set themselves a little bit above everybody else. [tapping sound] I don't know why, but they always seemed to do that [tapping sound]. They don't now, but that was then. Cheryl McQuaid: I, uh, just realized that I did not inter – I did not introduce everybody that's present in this room. [6:13] Could we quickly go around the room and let everybody state their name? Edward Lazarus: Sure, go 'head. Mike Fleming: I'm Mike Fleming. Linda Johnson: I'm Linda Johnson. Doreen Howard: Doreen Howard. Marilyn Coulter: Marilyn Coulter. Jerri Smith: Jerri Smith. Cheryl McQuaid: Sorry 'bout that. Edward Lazarus: Oh, that's all right. [clicking sound] Cheryl McQuaid: [6:30] Um, [clicking sound] do you have a favorite boss? Edward Lazarus: Oh, [inaudible 6:33] yeah, I'm sure [tapping sound] I do [chuckle]. Um, for years I worked off and on for years in Quality Control. I worked for Frank Spratto, and he was always, always was my favorite boss. Female: [6:46] What made him your favorite boss? Edward Lazarus: Pardon me? Female: [6:49] What made him your favorite boss? Why – what was special about him? Edward Lazarus: Oh, I suppose because, uh, mutual hobbies, ya know, that, that we shared and, and, uh – actually I worked for his wife before I worked for hi-, before I even knew him. But, uh, after I met him, we, we became friends and, and we're still friends. Female: I see that you're a hunter over here. [7:14] Is... Edward Lazarus: In fact, there's his pictures on the wall. Female: ...s that the mutual hobby? [chuckle] Female: [7:18] Is, is that your mutual hobby with Frank? Edward Lazarus: Well, that's what we share, yes. Female: I was gonna say, I thought he was a hunter [inaudible 7:25]. Mike Fleming: [Inaudible 7:26]. A couple things before we go any further. [7:30] You wanna explain to everyone that doesn't understand that may be [creaking sound] listening to this what Utility and Relief was when you worked in QC? [creaking sound] Edward Lazarus: Well, the u-, utility position [creaking sound] was, uh, loosely described as an absentee replacement. Now, whenever someone was on vacation, the utility person took their job or if somebody was off sick or whatever. And, uh, usually there, each department had a couple and, and, uh, that allowed ya not to have to do the same job all the time and alleviate boredom to some extent. And relief was, uh, in the older days we had what we called tag relief and the relief man would come around and give each person a short break in turn, 2 or 3 times a day. [papers shuffling] Mike Fleming: Um, mutual hobbies being a hunter. [8:23] Um, Ed, you just a little bit more than a hunter? [papers shuffling] Would you like to explain to us what you do besides hunting? Uh, I, I kinda know you so go ahead and explain. Edward Lazarus: Well, I, I'm a gun collector. And, and, uh, and I travel a lot. Uh, I've always, uh, I've always traveled by motorcycle. [screeching in background] And at last count, I think I'm up to about 38 or 39 [outta 8:50] the continental 48 on motorcycle. And, uh, and I'm planning, uh, shortly, hopefully in the spring, a trip to Alaska – on the motorcycle, of course. Mike Fleming: Um, let's go a little deeper, Ed. Explain – you are a gunmaker as well if I'm not mistaken. Edward Lazarus: No. Mike Fleming: [9:12] You don't make'm? Um, but you just, just… Edward Lazarus: No, I just collect. Mike Fleming: [9:16] …you just collect? Ok... Edward Lazarus: Uh-huh. Mike Fleming: …so you go to different antique shows and ev-… Edward Lazarus: Ya. Mike Fleming: …and whatnot and collect, uh… Edward Lazarus: [clicking sound] Oh, I, I do a little service on'm, ya know, and, and, uh, ya know, simple things that a lot of my coworkers have a, have asked for my, use of my talents, if you will. Mike Fleming: [0:35] Now, that includes making your own rounds, and… Ed Lazarus: Oh, yeah. I, I load my own ammunition, and I shoot competitively as well. Mike Fleming: [And 9:44] y-, you've won some trophies at that, haven't ya? Ed Lazarus: Oh, jeez. I had s-, I've had so many trophies. But, uh, I used to shoot in the national matches every year, and, and that was always an experience ta, to go and hang out with a, the U.S. Olympic team, and, and be right there with a, the people that travel and represent the country all over the world. That was… Female: Wow! Ed Lazarus: …the, the coach of the U.S. Olympic team was, he wasn't just a coach, he was a friend to everyone – or is, I should say. Mike Fleming: [Inaudible 10:16] Can you remember his name, Ed? Ed Lazarus: Oh, yeah, Lones Wigger. Absolutely. Great guy, great guy. Mike Fleming: Now, we talked about the different docks in this, uh, facility. [10:29] Right now you are what we consider a, dock… Ed Lazarus: Oh. Mike Fleming: …dock controller, right? Ed Lazarus: No, actually not. I, I, I guess my official title would be shipping clerk. Mike Fleming: Ok. Ed Lazarus: 'Cause, 'cause this is now the shipping dock, or always has been actually. Mike Fleming: [10:43] But, ya have been dock controller [inaudible 10:44]? Ed Lazarus: I have been, yes. Mike Fleming: Um, and there's a lot of [clicking sound] things that you would do – explain what you did as far as the safety of that, uh, the, [clicking sound] uh, making sure that, uh, material got in and outside of the plant. [10:59]? What did, what was your job? Ed Lazarus: Well, a-, a-, as dock controller you, uh, depending on whether you was rail dock or truck dock, you schedule rail cars in the plant and, and I al-, and, uh, do all the appropriate paperwork and the same thing with the trucks. And, and when I was a dock controller, um, I had a rail dock and truck dock [dinging sound] both, s-, so, I did it all [clicking sound] – or it seemed like I did it all [tapping sound]. Mike Fleming: But there was a particular function [clicking sound] that, uh, you had that at some point made some people happy and made some people unhappy. [11:36] Would you mind [tapping sound] explaining what that was? Ed Lazarus: Well, the, the problem with being a dock controller is, um, you're an hourly person. And, uh, basically the work you do is what the supervisor used to do. And, uh, so, y-, ya kinda get a, ya kinda get caught in the middle so to speak. Um, I always tried to, to treat the people I worked with as an equal. And, um, rather than tell'm to do somethin', I would usually say, "Will you do this or, or this needs to be done." And, and try to be a little diplomatic, if you will, because a lot of the people resented that. And, um, you would occasionally get that, "You're not my boss. You can't tell me to do this." But, um – so when you, when you get a situation like that, you go to the boss and tell'm that this needs to be done and then go tell the people to do it. [laughter] Mike Fleming: [12:29] Why don't you give more specificity [papers shuffling] of the job that you had of, of letting the, uh, the train in and out, if you want to talk about that? Ed Lazarus: Oh, th-, the, ya, th-, there was a safety involved in that. Uh, uh, you had to make sure [clicking sound] that, uh, chocks were on, uh, that, uh, the [tapping sound] railroad tracks were locked out with a personal safety lock so [they 12:54] ensure the safety of the people that are, are, uh, unloading the trains. And, and the same with trucks too, uh, although in the last few years, we got docks [in the head 13:02], automatic dock locks [so 13:05] where they couldn't unload the truck, couldn't even get on the truck unless it was locked. Mike Fleming: [13:09] And you had to take a class for that, did you not? Ed Lazarus: Oh, yeah. I [had t- 13:12] safety and hazardous material and, and, and everything. Mike Fleming: [Inaudible 13:16] Uh, well – I can [papers shuffling] remember, um, trying to get from one end of the plant to the other and there was ole Ed blocking my way. [13:27] Do, do you remember what I'm trying to say? Do you know what I'm talking about? Ed Lazarus: Oh, yeah. The – we had a, uh, a bridge that was right in the middle of the dock and, uh, it was kinda rather inconvenient. But, um, th-, the train was on both sides of the bridge, of course, and so when it came time to switch the trains in and out, you had to raise the bridge and block everything off and. Course that raised problems in itself when people wanted to get from here to there or especially if they were about due to go on break they resent you raising the bridge. But, that, it was all part of the job. You had to do it. And th-, the trains [tapping sound], of course, were on a strict schedule. I mean they didn't, they didn’t just come in at their convenience. They, they ca-, they were supposed to come in at nearly the same time every day. Chery McQuaid: [14:18] When did you go from QC to [tapping sound] the dock jobs? Ed Lazarus: Well, actually I, I worked for like about, um, maybe 14, 14 years on Quality Control and then I transferred to the layout department and I, I did rework, uh, during the pilot period when we changed over the front wheel drive cars. It was a whole new concept of building cars and not the way we built them prior to that. And, and there were a lot of problems getting up and running wi-, with the new, uh, the unified body construction and, and, uh, [tapping sound] and all that so. I worked at that for about 5 years and, and, uh, then I went to – well actually went on the production line and body shop for a couple years and then I was back into Quality Control, worked in weld integrity for [tapping sound] 4 years and then I transferred to material handling and, and, uh, ultimately got to be a dock controller where I am now. Sadly, it takes about [tapping sound] 30 years to ge-[chuckle], to get the job you always wanted. Female: [15:26] What is your current position? Ed Lazarus: A shipping clerk. Female: [15:30] And what does that entail? [tapping sound] Ed Lazarus: Well, everything that leaves here has, um, has to be accompanied by paperwork, which the corporate offices that’s how they decide where to bill everything to. So [I 15:50], if somebody takes out, uh, a box of, uh, a box of gloves, for instance, it has to be accompanied by paperwork and that’s, that’s what I do is all the paperwork, which is all, ya know, computer generated now. [papers shuffling] Female: [16:12] Do you have any specialized training that you had to have before coming into this job? Ed Lazarus: Well… Female: Or… Ed Lazarus: …actually, uh, computer skills are very useful. I kinda took to computer like a duck to water. I mean not that I'm an expert at it, but I seem to be able to make it do what I want it to do generally. Not always, but if I, if I can't do what I want to do, I can usually find somebody who can [clicking sound] show me how. Female: [16:41] [An- 16:42] so you were saying that th- [booming sound], this is a preferred job so it takes many years of working here before you're able to get into something… Ed Lazarus: Well… Female: …like you're doing now? Ed Lazarus: …it's all helpful, ya know, uh, having worked in, from one end of the plant to the other. And, and, um, everything I've learned, ya know, during the material handling process helps me now so. Mike Fleming: Talk about the material handling process from where we were to where we are now. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, at some point we [tapping sound] have gotten leaner and meaner in material to where we used to have stock everywhere and to now we went to JIT. [17:25] Can you talk about that? Ed Lazarus: Well, that started, uh, the concept started about 1984, um, when they pioneered what they call just-in-time material. And, uh, [inaudible 17:38] back when I first worked here, uh, they used 3 or 4 buildings for just, uh, just warehousing material [tapping sound]. In th-, in those days you could run for [clicking sound] better part of a week or more if you didn’t have a truck or a train come into the plant. And, course, all that warehousing cost [tapping sound] money and y-, and the [clicking sound] stock is, has money tied up that, that you're not using. And, course, and th-, with the idea of freeing that up, they tried to streamline the, the process coming in to where material coming in the plant would get here just a matter of a couple hours before it was absolutely needed [tapping sound]. And often times you would have the, the last box of stock on the line when the truck backed in. You'd unload it and take it right to the line. And I mean it would literally be just in time. Mike Fleming: [18:36] And that's when they created what we call hot stock guys, right? Ed Lazarus: Oh, yeah. Well, that's, that’s where the dock controllers came from. They usually – sometimes if a truck was late or whatever, sometimes you had to have somebody grab it and run. They did-, they didn't have time to wait for the, the regular operator to do it, might be tied up doing something else. And there was a lot of that too. Cheryl McQuaid: [19:03] So Ed, when you hired in here, this place was, was known as Fisher Body and then it changed to BOC and then LCA and what did you think about the name changes, um [papers shuffling] [clicking sound]? Ed Lazarus: Well, actually, uh, that always saddened me because even, even now people ask me where I work and, and I say, "Well, I work for General Motors." But, ya know, I, I usually, um, qualify that by saying, uh, the old Fisher Body plant. And, and this, of course, having been Fisher Body for 50 years or more before the name change, um, most people in the area remember it [tapping sound] as Fisher Body, even now. And, g-, going to – I always thought, ya know, when they went to the, the BOC for instance, I always thought that made a lot of sense. But I still, I still felt I lost something when it went to that, ya know, because we were for years a separate entity in, within General Motors, and, and, um, that was special [tapping sound]. Female: [20:15] Over your time here, um, has there been any, um, developed friendships or lasting friendships? Um, you talked a little about Frank Spratto and doing things outside with him. Um, do you have any other coworkers that, that you do anything with? Ed Lazarus: Oh, uh, ya know, i-, it seems to be indicative of, of where we work, but those of us that work here and have worked here for years, most of our friends also work here. And, uh, I wouldn't say all my friends work here. I, I've gotten involved in other activities and, um, in different, uh, singles ministries in the area where I've volunteered and, and, uh, made friends elsewhere. But still, most of the people I do things with are, ya know, work here or have worked here, retired. [tapping sound] Female: Now I know your, your cousin, Fred Billings, who passed away, I know he was a union member, an active union member. [21:22] Were you e-, ever an active union member? And were you ever active [inaudible 21:24]? Ed Lazarus: Well, actually I, I did, uh, try to run for alternate committeeman at one time and I only lost by about 9 [chuckle] votes if I remember right. But, uh, I don't know. I thought maybe I could do something good and it didn't work out and, and it just – I never got interested in it again after that. Female: [21:49] You never got interested in running for office? Ed Lazarus: Right. Female: Okay. [21:52] But you were still a union supporter, right? Ed Lazarus: Oh, absolutely. [clicking sound] Ya know, I [tapping sound] been here for a long time, ya know. Female: [22:00] Had you ever been through any of the strikes? Ed Lazarus: Oh yeah. 1970, [tapping sound] 68 days. Female: Oh. Ed Lazarus: Uh, I hadn't even worked here a year. Well, actually I got my, my first year seniority during, during that strike. And newly married, and, and a new baby, and, and, in those days we got – if you were married and had a family you got $35 a week. Uh, that was your strike benefit. If you were not married, you only got 25. Chery McQuaid: [22:31] Do you remember why you went on strike? Ed Lazarus: Well, actually I kinda thought it was lark, but it sure did, uh, sure didn’t help the pocketbook. [tapping sound] Actu-, uh, the biggest issue at that time I believe was, was retirement, was the 30 and out. And, uh, I, I do remember, though, that, that, uh, the union asked for 30 – the right to retire after 30 years seniority and, and they were paid [sigh sound in background] $650 a month. That was pretty good benefits in 1969, or 1970. Mike Fleming: While we're talking about that, uh, you get the $35 a week for your strike pay. [23:18] When you hired in [tapping sound], Ed, versus to where you are now, talk about your wage then, your wage now, benefits, and wer-, what, what type of, um, what's – is it better or is it worse? Ed Lazarus: Well, actually I hired in at $3.39 an hour, which doesn't sound like very much money now, but, but I actually believe we had more buying power on, on that – in those days. Of course, we always worked a lot of overtime, especially back in the 60's and 70's if sales were good and so, uh, ya know, you would, you could actually make a pretty good living out of that. [clicking sound] [Course 23:58] you could buy a new car for $3000 then too. [laughter] Mike Fleming: [24:03] And so now you are [clicking sound] at – where we are now is wage-wise? Ed Lazarus: Oh, 20, $27 and change I think. I don't know, but seems like a lot. I just think I pay more taxes. [typewriter sound in background 24:19 to 25:50] Chery McQuaid: So you've seen a lot of changes. I mean as we've already said, you started when the place was called Fisher Body, saw it go to BOC, saw it go to Lansing Car Assembly. [24:30] What are some of the biggest changes you've seen over the years? Ed Lazarus: Well, actually, this, uh, this part of the building we're, we're sitting in right now when I hired in here was a parking lot. And, um, I remember when this was built. I remember when the, the south end of the, the, the whole south end of the, southwest end of the plant was torn down and remodeled, Building 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21. Those were all, all remodeled. And, uh, became the pai-, the new paint shop, which, uh, was really – at the time that happened, we thought that was pretty, pretty good because where I hired in on the line was right beside the ovens and it was really hot back in those days [chuckle]. I mean especially in the summer. And then when they, when they re-, remodeled the paint department and put the ovens up on the 3rd floor, then you didn't have to deal [tapping sound] with that extreme heat all the time. That made it a lot more comfortable in the summer. It's still hot in the summer, but it, not like it was in those days. Cheryl McQuaid: Ya make me glad I wasn't here then. [laughter] Cheryl McQuaid: [25:41] Did you ever participate in any of the department dinners or…? [papers shuffling] Ed Lazarus: Oh, yeah. We, ya know, in Quality Control for years we had, uh, we had a Christmas party, ya know, an off-site Christmas party every year that, that, uh, initially started [clicking sound], uh, with just the salaried people and then as the salaried and hourly personnel became more intertwined, ya know, the hourly people were invited to'm [tapping sound] as well. And, uh, and we have a tradition that, uh, was started back in the early 70's by Frank Spratto and a, and a bunch of other old timers in Quality Control. They have a venison steak fry every year that, uh, originally was just for salary people and now it's, it's mostly about 50/50 and, and a lot of retirees still go. Ya know, I go every year and I see people that retired years ago and some people even come up to me and say, "What's your name again?" And I say, "You were my boss for how many years and you don't remember my name?" [laughter] Cheryl McQuaid: [26:52] Where were some of the, um, Christmas parties held? You said they were [tapping sound] off site. Ed Lazarus: Oh, they would often rent a hall [inaudible 27:01] or a banquet facility at a golf course or something. One year we had it down to the civic center, when we still had a civic center [chuckle]. Female: Now, Ed, you said that the Quality Control people kinda felt they were a little bit maybe above the rest of the people. [27:17] Is that one of the reasons because you had such a different type of relationship with management than other people? Is that one of the reasons they felt a little bit different or…? Ed Lazarus: Well… Female: …[inaudible 27:25] above the rest? Ed Lazarus: …ya know, I, I don’t know. It's just that, uh, it, it seemed like, course, the different parts of the plant didn't intermingle that much with the other parts of the plant. I mean the people that worked in the body shop always stayed in the body shop. The people worked in trim always stayed in trim and the people worked in the paint department stayed in the paint department. And, ya know, having worked a little bit in the paint department, but a lot in trim and body shop, ya know, I got to know people all over, all over the plant. And oddly enough when I first had to work in the body shop, I hated it 'cause I didn't know anybody out there. But now I know people everywhere, so doesn't matter where I work. Mike Fleming: Bein', bein', uh, out here on the dock and doing what you do [sniffing sound] this is like fall harvest time. [28:18] Do you get anything from like your truck drivers [tapping sound] or whatever? Do they bring in produce, stuff that they've grown or whatnot? Do you get any [inaudible 28:24]…? Ed Lazarus: Uh, the regular truck drivers do that sometimes. And, uh, not always, but sometimes they do. Um, and, course, a lot of the people that have hobby gardens here [clicking sound] bring in their surplus and just pass it out to anybody that wants it. Mike Fleming: [Inaudible 28:43]. [typewriter sound in background in next several paragraphs] Ed Lazarus: I've seen that quite a bit. Female: [28:47] Now, will you be going out to the Delta plant? Ed Lazarus: Actually, no. When I'm done here, I'm retired. Female: [28:55] So what are your plans for retirement? Ed Lazarus: Travel. Cheryl McQuaid: Oh, that Alaska trip. Ed Lazarus: Ya the Alaska trip. [laughter] Ed Lazarus: Who knows what I'm gonna do. I, I'm considering moving out of town. Um, I live real close to work, which has been a real blessing. Um, I didn't do it on purpose but, but, uh, having driven 50 miles one way back and forth to work every day and get to where I only gotta drive a mile and a half, that sure made a difference in, in wearing out a, the vehicle, ya know. And I love living close, but since I'm not gonna be working anymore, I just a soon live out of town. Female: [29:28] So since you're not gonna go to the new plant and since you're gonna retire [inaudible 29:43], what would be a good message, what would be a message that you'd like to leave for the young ones that are still here? Ed Lazarus: Well, we don’t get a lot of new younger people coming in and that’s sad because, um, manufacturing jobs aren't as available as they used to be. Female: Yeah, but we, but we have people who are, ya know, they're 5, 10 years in and they still gotta a little bit of [work to go 30:09] before they can g-, get to where you are. Ed Lazarus: Well, perseverance, uh, perseverance more than anything. Ya know, I, a lot of the people I worked with over the years say, "Well, you’ve always had a good job." And I, and it would seem that way, but, but, uh, ya know, I put my time in on the production line too and, and I didn't always have a good job. And, I remember one time for, for several months I worked at a body shop hanging deck lids and, and when you pick up a deck lid out of the rack and hand it across the line to your partner on the other side 8, 9 hours a day, ya get pretty sore at the end of the day. Cheryl McQuaid: [30:48] What would ya say a deck lid weighs? Ed Lazarus: Oh, now they don't weigh hardly anything, but back in those days they were pretty heavy. Ya know, they probably weighed 30, 40 pounds. Female: [30:59] And for those that don't work here, a deck lid is? Ed Lazarus: Trunk lid. What we, now we cal-, commonly call it trunk lid. Cheryl McQuaid: Well, Ed, I really appreciate you spendin' the time with us this mornin'. Ed Lazarus: Oh, it was my pleasure. Cheryl McQuaid: [31:13] Is there anything that maybe I've not touched on that you'd like to say or? Ed Lazarus: Well, I could say that th-, that this place – it, it's sad to me to see this place close because, ya know, having – I didn't come here with the intention of making a vocation but, but, uh, the benefits that I reaped over the years and, and the friends that I made, it just made this place special. And when it, when they, when they really close it for good, I mean we're [inaudible 31:42] closed, but when there's absolutely nobody working here and they tear the place down, it's, it's gonna be a sad day. I can tell ya it's gonna be a sad day. Cheryl McQuaid; I agree. [creaking sound] Thank you so much. Female: I have just one last comment. [31:54] Um, since you are one of the few people that are left here with the plant closing, um, and you look out your door here and you see all the lights down and, and hardly any people [tapping sound] and all the equipment and everything gone, um, tell me what's your viewpoint on, on that? [clicking sound] Ed Lazarus: Well, it, it, it seems pretty quiet. Seems like a tomb [tapping sound] around here. It, it's so quiet now because for years even when, uh, there was a lot going on even when the, the plant wasn’t running and, ya know, walk, people walking in and walking out and you don't see hardly anybody walking in anymore. And I miss that. But, the, the new plant's gonna have its advantages in increased ergonomics and safety and, and, uh – but I don't think it's ever gonna be like it was. Nothing ever is. But this, uh, [coughing in background] this was always a great place to work. And I was always proud to say I worked here actually, yes. And, and I would, uh, in my travels I would occasionally run into people in, in, uh, other states [tapping sound]. I remember one time I was visiting my sister in Arizona. My brother-in-law was in the sign business and he was working at an Oldsmobile dealer. And I was just spending some time with him and I was down at the dealer just kinda wandering around and one of the salesman, of course, tried to sell me a car and I said, "No, I was just lookin', just checkin' the cars out." He said, "Well, why?" And I said, "Oh, I, I work where they build these," ya know. And, and he said, "Where ya work?" And I said, "Well, Lansing, Michigan." And he said, "Oh." He said, "If we could get Lansing built cars here," he said, "they don't sit on the lot at all." He said, "The cars that are built in the other plants will set here." But he said, "People come in and they, they, they look right at the sticker and if that's a Lansing built car they'll buy it in a heartbeat." And that always made me feel special because, uh, our cars were desirable. And, and, uh, [coughing in background] people wanted'm. Female: I, I think everyone [sniffing sound] here can agree with, with all of the statements that you just said [and we're 34:17] also very proud to have worked here [too 34:19]. Ed Lazarus: Well, I certainly am. Female: We thank you for your time. We appreciate it, Ed. Ed Lazarus: You're welcome. Cheryl McQuaid: Thank you, Ed. Female: Thanks, Ed. Female: Thank you, Ed. Female: Thanks, Ed. Mike Fleming: Thank you, Ed. Ed Lazarus: My pleasure. /ce