George Nelson discusses his career as a production worker and UAW member at the Fisher Body plant in Lansing, MI Doug Rademacher: Good morning. I'm Doug Rademacher, and I'm here with the Fisher Body Historical Team. We are going to interview George Nelson today. It is October 26th at approximately 9:20, and we are in the Labor Relations conference room in 2005. Good morning, George. [00:26] Would you please state your full name and spell your last name for the record? George Nelson: George Nelson, Jr., and, uh, last name's spelled N E L S O N. Doug Rademacher: Thank you. And what is your address? George Nelson: 16271 South Lowell Road. Doug Rademacher: [00:43] What is your marital status? George Nelson: Single. Doug Rademacher: [00:48] Do you have any children? George Nelson: Yep. Doug Rademacher: [00:52] And that is... George Nelson: I have two daughters. I have a 19-year-old and a 10-year-old. Doug Rademacher: That's wonderful. [00:58] And do you have any, uh, education? What's you're education? George Nelson: No. [laughter] High school then everything GM can throw at me. Doug Rademacher: Excellent. [01:07] Did you have any military service? George Nelson: No. Doug Rademacher: Okay. Uh, we're going to go around the room and identify all the people in the room. Doreen Howard: Doreen Howard. Cheryl McQuaid: Cheryl McQuaid. John Fedewa: John Fedewa. Linda Johnson: Linda Johnson. Doug Rademacher: And I'm Doug Rademacher. Good morning to you. [01:22] George, would you please tell us about hiring in? Give us your hire-in date and the department and shift in which you hired into. George Nelson: It was August 29th, '78. Uh, they brought a bunch of us in. I put in two applications to get in here, and, uh, the lady that was going through the applications had both of'm and said, "You must've wanted in here bad, huh?" I say, "Yep." So, they brought us all into a big room, one of the conference rooms up here and, uh, sat us down and divided us up into two groups and the one group, they said you go to the armpit of Fisher Body. And I'm like, "Oh, great. What's that?" And that would be the body shop. They had us down in the body shop. Doug Rademacher: Okay. [02:05] And, uh, tell me, what brought you to Fisher Body? George Nelson: The money. Doug Rademacher: [02:09] How did you hear about them hiring? George Nelson: Oh, it was, it was public knowledge. I was driving a semi at the time. I had to take a day off work for two days to stand in line. And the lines went all the way down Verlinden... and it was actually pretty neat. Doug Rademacher: Okay. So, your first day in the plant, tell us about that. George Nelson: Well, they took us down in the body shop and, uh, asked all right – I – they gave me a choice of hang car doors or puttin' in a striker. I had no idea what a striker was, and to this day, that was one of my biggest mistakes [laughter] 'cause I chose car doors 'cause I thought, "Well, I, I know what a door is. It can't be that hard." Well, I was wrong. It was pretty heavy. They were [Del 02:52] 88 doors and 98 doors, and my buddy, he got the striker job, which was puttin' a striker in, which is nothing more than a large bolt with a ratchet and tappin' it with a little, bitty hammer. And he was right down the line from me, so I got to watch him do that eight hours, ten hours a day, whatever we were workin', and I'm liftin' doors that weighed about 75 pounds and hittin'm with a big hammer with no lift assists or anything like that. Just pick'm up, slam'm on, bolt'm on, beat'm up. Doug Rademacher: [03:24] And what was the plant called when you hired in? George Nelson: Fisher Body. Doug Rademacher: [03:28] Okay. Do you remember your starting wage? George Nelson: Yep, $7.77 an hour. Doug Rademacher: That was a lucky day for ya. George Nelson: Yes, it was. Doug Rademacher: [Been playin' that 03:36] ever since or hopin' to [inaudible 03:38]. Uh, tell us about your boss and, and the union. [03:48] How did they, uh, treat you on your first day in, and were you brought up to speed? George Nelson: Well, back, back then, you – well, it's still the same, but we don't do new hires too much anymore, but you had to get your 90 days in. So, for your first 90 days, you were basically at their mercy. And, uh, it was a lot different than it is now, believe me, they – it was like you were a rookie, and you'd do what they tell ya, and no matter how much work they'd put on you, you'd do it and you couldn't miss no days and you couldn't, you know, do anything really. You just had to be here, so... but the union was around big time. I mean, you know, I used to watch'm – they could-, course, couldn't represent us until we had our 90 days in, but they would, uh, be out on the floor fightin' for worker's rights big time, but – and it was pretty much fightin' back then. A lot of yellin' and stuff and fists poundin' on desks. Doug Rademacher: George, they hired a lot of people at that same time. George Nelson: Oh, yeah. Doug Rademacher: [04:40] Did you know other people that you stood in line with? You said your friend was right up in front of you. George Nelson: Well, he just became my friend from getting' hired in, but – no, actually, I really didn't recognize too many people. There was maybe a handful that I knew from high school that got hired in, you know. But people came from all over, Vermontville, Grand Rapids, Jackson, you know, stood in line. Doug Rademacher: [05:05] In your work environment, tell me about how the atmosphere was on the assembly line. How did people treat each other or...? George Nelson: It, it was really good. It was. We all got along, and, uh, it, it was – you got to know people a little more than what you do now because they have the jobs spaced out so much. Before, you were workin' – the minute you got done a car, somebody was right behind you doin' somethin' else. I mean, like for instance, we had four people on each side of the line puttin' car doors on, and you rotated, did every fourth car, you know, so you had a ton of time. You were humpin', but you had a ton of time. Doug Rademacher: Okay. [05:37] Do you remember your first boss? George Nelson: Yeah. Doug Rademacher: Tell us about him. George Nelson: Sam [Sikes 05:51]. Yeah, he was ornery, let's put it that way. He was very ornery, and he loved to mess with new hires, you know. He'd be on us hard. Me and him never really, uh, saw eye to eye for a long, long time, I think, all the way up 'till about the last year before he retired, then we got along. Doug Rademacher: [06:12] So, he took that, uh, uh, we'll call it the, um, the 90 days that you had to be more or less good, he, he took that beyond the 90 days? George Nelson: No. No, no, he was – he never changed. He was always the same from day one. I mean, he was just... ornery to put it politely. He wasn't a very happy individual I don't think. Doug Rademacher: Talk about the older seniority people. [06:45] How did they treat you? George Nelson: Oh, like we were new hires, you know. They were good, but they'd mess with us a lot, but that was kinda – you know, now I look back on it 'cause I've almost got 30 years in. I used to look at those guys that had 25 and I'd go, "My God, they've been here 25 years. No way I'm gonna do that," you know, [laughter] and here it is. But, yeah, we used to, you know, really look up to'm, and then they'd tell us about when they hired in and how hard it was and, you know. Doug Rademacher: [07:12] What was your plan when you hired in? Was it...? George Nelson: Actually, my plan was just to work for a few years and then move on to somethin' different. Doug Rademacher: Doreen Howard. Doreen Howard: [07:24] Um, when you hired in, was there any new-hire pranks that they did to you, to you? You said they messed with ya. George Nelson: Oh, yeah. There was – you'd be boltin' a car door on and they had a guy called an intermittent relief guy, and he wou-, he would give you bathroom breaks and stuff, and they would, uh, come walkin' around and dump water on ya, you know, or hit you with a fire extinguisher and, you know. There was a lot more, uh, jokin' around that went on back then and indulgences and whatnot constantly, but it was, it was the auto industry of the 70s. I mean, that's the way it was. It was crazy. It was, you know, everything that you've pretty much heard about it was true, you know. Doreen Howard: [08:06] Can, can you describe the environment of the body shop? What was it like? Your surroundings. George Nelson: Oh, it was very loud, very dirty. I mean, when you got eight people bangin' on door hinges all pretty much at the same time, it's pretty loud. And, uh, then you had the jungle, which was all the spot-welding operations, and everywhere you looked you had welding cables hangin' down and welding guns, I mean, as far as you can see, which wasn't very far 'cause it was always smoky. And lots of sparks and noise and, I mean, it was just – it was gross down there. It really was. Doreen Howard: [08:40] Did you always work in the body shop? George Nelson: Yep. I've always been there. Yep, since '78. Kinda got comfortable with it. Doug Rademacher: Linda Johnson. Linda Johnson: [08:51] Um, you were talking about how noisy it was, did they practice hearing protection back in the 70s? Or – George Nelson: No, not so much. Linda Johnson: When did that come in? George Nelson: I think that was more in the mid-80s. They really started pushing hearing protection and stuff like that. I mean, we always took – we had our physicals with hearing tests and whatnot, and then they also sampled you for lead because there was a lot of lead we were usin' on seams and stuff of cars back then. But, um, nope. Linda Johnson: [09:16] And you were saying no door assists back then? George Nelson: No door assists. No -you, you – Linda Johnson: Er, ergonomically, it was... George Nelson: Oh, it was bad. It was, it was – I mean, you know. It made ya strong, you know, [laughter] it really did. I mean, you carried doors all day long, you, you know, you're no slouch [inaudible 09:30] by the end of the day. But I can remember goin' home and from the air guns, the first month that I worked, I'd wake up in the middle of the night, and my hands would be closed right shut, cramped right shut, and I'd have to go to the bathroom, turn on hot water, and run'm under there and straighten'm out 'till your hands got built up and used to doin' that. Doreen Howard: [09:53] How did that... Doug Rademacher: Doreen. Doreen Howard: Change over the timeframe that you worked in the body shop? George Nelson: Oh, a ton. They start – shortly after I hired in, uh, I wanna say maybe the mid-80s, before we switched body styles, they brought in a, a fixture that we used on the doors, which clamped on, which made it a little easier 'cause you still had to grab the doors and carry'm, but you slid'm on. Before, you kinda had to kinda hang on to'm and then bolt'm on with the first bolt and then the door would stay on, and then you'd do the rest, you know, free hand. But, um, a lot more ergonomic things, ergonomics started getting more involved, you know, and, I mean, they still had a ways to go, but from when I hired in to now, I mean, it's, you know, those people complained about hanging car doors [inaudible 10:37] it ain't nothin', you know, 'cause you're usin' the airlift assist now and you swing'm on and there's no – there's hardly no effort to puttin' a car door on. It's all timing and getting' your motor skills together. Doug Rademacher: Doug Rademacher. George, go back to the body shop. [10:55] Tell me about, um, in the camaraderie that you developed in a particular area for that ornery boss you spoke of, um, did, uh, did you guys work and help each other or were you left on your own? George Nelson: Oh, no. We always helped each other. I mean, everybody that you worked with, you pretty much got along with. I mean, there was a few scuffles where people – you know, anytime you have that many people – and we used to work into the August months big time and for some reason, I, I just remember it bein' hotter back then. Of course, hangin' doors, you know, we didn't have the airflow we do now and whatnot. But, uh, yep, people got along good. We used to have, uh, you'd have department softball. I mean, we had softball leagues. This place was so big and hired so many people, I mean, every department had their own softball team. There was a schedule, you know. They rented city parks and – I mean, that, that was a lot of fun. That was a lot of fun. Doug Rademacher: [11:49] You were afforded breaks according to the union contract? George Nelson: Oh, yeah. Doug Rademacher: Talk about... George Nelson: Oh, I remember when I hired in, and they told ya – I forget the exact times they were, but you had like a 12-minute break, a 14-minute break and 16-minute break and stuff like that. And then you had your lunch, you know, but they had a break – they'd call it a wagon, and they said that's seven minutes. I looked at'm and I was like, "Right. What are you gonna do with seven minutes?" But I tell you what, after two hours on that line hanging car doors, you look forward to seven minutes of that line stoppin' big time. And a little lady'd come around with a cart with, uh, they'd always have coffee and donuts and, you know, honey buns and all that kind of stuff on there. I'm tellin' you; you'd be lookin' down that isle way lookin' for that cart, you know. Doug Rademacher: [12:36] So, if you didn't have a clock, the, uh, cart told you what, what was comin'? George Nelson: Oh, yeah. You, you knew what was goin' on. We used to have to use actual time cards, you know, the paper time cards over by the escalator in the body shop, and everybody'd stand in line at the end of the day to punch out, you know. Doug Rademacher: [12:50] Early on, George, did you – when the break would come and you – did you find yourself still workin' and other people were all gone? George Nelson: O, yeah. I'd do that, and then when I first hired in, I wouldn't leave [laughter] 'cause I couldn't find my way out. I had to follow people out to the parking lot 'cause there was s-, so many departments and so much stu-, I mean, it took ya a good couple weeks to figure it out, you know, but I'd, I'd, sit on a bo-, a stack of bolts, you know, boxes of bolts and just wait for the break to get over and then go back to work 'cause you didn't wanna go anywhere, you'd never get back. Doug Rademacher: [laughter] George Nelson: And people wouldn't really help you out, "Yeah, it's over there." They'd point and you're like goin' okay. Then they'd just laugh 'cause they know you were lost, you know. Doug Rademacher: Was it – you said you, uh, made the big mistake of choosing doors over strikers. Talk about going – being led down to the body shop, [13:41] what was your first impression? George Nelson: Oh, I was like – I just thought, "Oh my God. What'd I get into?" 'Cause, I mean, it, it was just huge and, I mean, I, I like doing that kind of work anyway, but I was goin' [laughter] "Oh, man." I mean, there was people everywhere and it – and it was like you see in those prison movies, you know, when somebody comes walkin' in and everybody stares at'm? Same deal here. You [come walkin' down 14:01] – 'cause they'd lead ten of us down there, you know, and everybody's goin' "Whoo!" and hollerin'. I mean, a woman couldn't walk by in the body shop. There was no way. That whole place would come – you could always tell if a woman was comin' by. I mean, all the way down to the other end of the body shop, you'd hear the hollerin' and the cat calls. A lot's changed. [laughter] Now you get fired, you know. Doug Rademacher: [14:25] What'd you do on your lunch break, George? George Nelson: Uh, at the start, I just stayed right there. I'd take lunch like a good boy, you know, and then as the years rolled on, you got a bunch of friends, everybody'd book over to, uh, the Shop Stop Bar, and you'd stay over there as long as you could and drink as much as you could and then you'd hurry back and hang car doors as best as you could. [laughter] Doreen Howard: [laughter] Doug Rademacher: [14:49] Do you remember how long was lunch when you first hired in? George Nelson: I wanna s-, I, I think it's was – it's always been half hour. I'm almost sure. Doug Rademacher: Doreen Howard. Doreen Howard: [15:03] [Inaudible] you've touched base, um, on the women in the body shop. Um, when you hired in, was there very many women at that time? George Nelson: Actually, if, if you, uh, could not bear children, they would let you work down there because of the lead, you know. Doreen Howard: So, there was very few women then? George Nelson: Right. So, that would explain why [the men and the woman 15:23] happened to walk through. I mean, you could still walk through the body shop, they just didn't want you working in with the lead and stuff, so it was mainly men. Doreen Howard: [15:32] Wh-, when did that change? George Nelson: Uh, when we got rid of the lead, you know, 'cause we went, we went to silicon bronze and stuff, and then they started having more women in the body shop. Doreen Howard: [15:43] So, that was at the end of the Cutlass? George Nelson: Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was. Yeah, I think it was when we started the GMX130s. Doug Rademacher: [15:51] What's a GMX130? George Nelson: Oh, a GMX130 – that's an Olds Cutlass class when we downsized big time into Grand Ams and, uh, I mean, we downsized – we went from building big cars to little mini cars. That was just enjoyable when you're talkin' about hangin' car doors 'cause they were a lot lighter. Doug Rademacher: Doreen Howard. Doreen Howard: [16:15] Um, how were the women – how were – what was the reception for women and, and – I'm not sure, was there a lot of minorities at that time in the body shop? George Nelson: Oh, yeah. Yep. Yeah. There really wasn't – everybody got along. I mean, for the most part, there really wasn't a whole lot of, you know, "Oh, we don't want women down here," you know. But when it came to like hanging car doors, I can't really remember ever having women hanging car doors when I hung'm. I mean, it was just too – you just couldn't do it, you know. They were – you had to be a big guy. Everybody that hung car doors was pretty much big guys. Doreen Howard: [16:53] Did you always hang doors? Or [inaudible 16:56]? George Nelson: No, I – actually, I hung doors – Doreen Howard: In, in that... George Nelson: for, for a long ti-, for probably – I think I did that job for three, four years and then I got a relief job, which is givin' people their breaks throughout the day, and, uh, I still wasn't – doin' doors, you know, but I also had to go over to other departments, the metal finisher, the grinding booths where they grind metal flanges and... but that's pretty much it. Just stayed right in the body shop area. I've done pretty much everything in the body shops, but... Doug Rademacher: [17:29] George, do you have any other family members that work here? George Nelson: No. Doug Rademacher: [17:38] What was your first reaction when the time came where they con-, discontinued being Fisher Body and brought in a new name plate for the plant? Did that mean anything at all to you? George Nelson: Oh, yeah. We didn't like it. We didn't like it. We thought that was the beginning of the end, you know, and same way when, when we got rid of the big car. All the old timers all said, "That's it. We get rid of these – these have been our bread and butter forever, and we get rid of'm, we're done." Well, Grand Am proved'm wrong. I mean, you know, that car sold like crazy. Doug Rademacher: [18:09] So, when they got done, now building the Grand Am, what was the perception when they went from BOC, Buick, Olds, Cadillac route to the Lansing Car Assembly? George Nelson: Uh, everybody pretty much had it with the way they changed the names and just became letters and, you know, the acronyms, they're just hung up on those. I don't get that whole thing, but, uh, they – everybody was like, "You gotta be kiddin' me." You know, every time we turned around, they were changing the sign out on Mission Avenue. Doug Rademacher: Doreen Howard. Doreen Howard: [18:40] So, um, what was the general perception, um, of the people that you worked with for the name changes? How did they feel about...? George Nelson: Oh, they, they got to the point where it was just pretty much a joke. I mean, they were like, "Oh, they changed the name again. Must be tax purposes or something", you know. Doreen Howard: [laughter] [19:00] What do you call the building and what did other people in the area... George Nelson: Oh, we still – oh, we still call it Fisher Body. I mean, anybody that hired in when it was Fisher Body, it's always Fisher Body. Or the big green building for people – if you're talkin' to somebody young and they don't know Fisher Body, you just say the big green building over there. Doug Rademacher: George, you said you had a ornery supervisor when you hired in. [19:23] Did you ever have any good supervisors? George Nelson: Yes. Oh, I've had a bunch of'm. I had one, Dick [Dowler 19:39]. He was old as the hills when I hired in, but I'll never forget deer season come around and I still – I don't think I'd quite hit my 90 days in. I was gettin' real close to havin'm in, and everybody was asking for opening day off, you know. And I told him if he let me out that night, I'd go huntin' opening day, and I'd bring him a roast back for second shift. And he let me go home, and man, there was some hot old timers. [laughter] I mean, big time. But I ended up drivin' all the way up to Houghton Lake that night, ended up takin' a deer, and I brought him a roast and stuck it on his front porch before I went to work. So, that worked out pretty good. But, yep, I've had a ton – actually, I've had more good ones than bad ones. The people here are really good. I mean, that's one thing that I'll always remember about this place is, you know, the friends you've made and, you know, even – I, I'll usually get along with management anyway unless they don't pay me, then we have issues. Doug Rademacher: Okay. Doreen Howard. Doreen Howard: You, you started to touch base on the friendships and the people that are here. [20:35] Um, can you go into more detail? Do you have, uh, friends that you do things in the plant with outside the plant? George Nelson: Oh, yeah. Yep, all the time. I do a lot of huntin' with guys from here. Snowmobiling [with guys here 20:49] and boating. I mean, you know, we all get together and hang out, you know, and have cottages at similar places and – you know. Doreen Howard: [20:57] So, you feel that the people here are family and friends? George Nelson: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure. Yep. Doreen Howard: [21:06] Did you, um, get involved in any of the [phone ringing] lunch time activities that happened? An-, any of the lunch time activities, uh, such as the dinners or retirement parties? George Nelson: Oh, yeah. Yep. Doreen Howard: Or any of that kind of stuff? George Nelson: Yep. Doreen Howard: Were you... George Nelson: Oh, yeah. And, and as the years went on – I mean, they've always been really big any time, you know, somebody's retiring or – they were even doing'm for birthdays and stuff like that or just when the holidays come around, they will have, you know the big, uh, Thanksgiving dinners and Christmas dinners and, I mean, you know. People here eat well. Doug Rademacher: Cheryl McQuaid. Cheryl McQuaid: [21:43] How was that arranged? I mean, who took care of making sure that dinner happened? George Nelson: Usually, if there was a female in one of our groups, she would be the organizer. That's usually how that would work. Nine times... Cheryl McQuaid: [21:54] And organizer meaning... George Nelson: Just with – they'd have a sheet of paper, "Hey, sign up." They'd take it and pass it around. Sign up, what're you bringin' in, you know. Cheryl McQuaid: [22:03] So, it was like a potluck type basis? George Nelson: Yep. Yep. Doug Rademacher: Doreen Howard. Doreen Howard: [22:09] Was there any other times where the people of the area came together as a group [phone ringing] or a family to support one of their – one of the coworkers? George Nelson: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Anytime somebody lost somebody, they, the collections were big. I mean, you know, you could – if you lost somebody and you were liked, you'd – there'd be a collection that would – it, it'd pretty much amaze ya, you know. How much – uh, the people are really giving. I mean, and then they're – you know, they care about each other. They really do, you know. Doreen Howard: [22:41] So, they would collect – they would go from person to person collecting money? George Nelson: From – person to collect – yep. Yep. They'd have a card for you to sign. And then if you wanted to gi-, it wasn't mandatory that you gave money, you know, but everybody usually threw in a couple bucks and when you're talkin' in a department an average size of 45 people... you know, that's a lot of money. Doug Rademacher: [23:05] George, has a s-, a particular coworker impacted your personal life? George Nelson: Just you, Doug. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: [laughter] George Nelson: No, not really. Doug Rademacher: I'm sure there's many, but would you please – [23:23] what's your best memory of the Fisher Body plant? George Nelson: Oh, God. I – you're right. There's a ton of'm. I can't really... Doug Rademacher: Can you give one good time? George Nelson: I can give one. My – I, I'm loose jointed in my arms, and there's a supervisor that I had, Rufous Hudson, and anybody that knew Rufous, he's a big gambler and he was a motorcycle racer, and we used to drive these three-wheel scooters around, the supervisors had'm. Well, one day it was get-, we were all getting pretty bored, so I said, "Watch this," and I slammed a car door real hard, and he was lookin' the other direction and I popped my arm out, so it looked like it was broke. I said "Ruf, look at this!" And he freaked out. "Get on the back of the cart!" And he jumped on his cart – I mean, it's totally unsafe, so don't do this at home. But he sat there [laughter] and drove me all the way down the assembly line, all the way down to medical and, I mean, the whole line knew what was goin' on. And they were rollin' and Ruf, he was all serious about his drivin' and going fast as he could. And we get down to medical, I said, "Oh, man, it popped back in." He goes, "Oh, good." And then he took me back. [laughter] But, I mean, watchin' his face, he was a trip. And the water extinguisher fights in the summer, you know. You'd take those fire extinguishers and it'd get out of hand. Doug Rademacher: [24:38] Have you had a skilled trades person ever do something special for you? Did you have something you ever needed that you were able... George Nelson: Oh, [laughter] yeah. Leave it at that. No, [laughter]. No, no. I, I had – back in the day, if you needed anything built, and they used to call'm government jobs. And, as a matter of fact, most of our skilled trades would be working on government jobs as opposed to working on regular jobs and, I mean, you could get all kinds of stuff built. Those guys are great. But nowadays, you can't do it so much, but – yep, used to have some pretty neat things assembled. Doug Rademacher: [25:20] Did you have a locker or something special made for you? George Nelson: Oh, yes. Yeah. We'd have special lockers made, bow presses for your compound bows. Uh, things for your car. If something broke and you needed a special part made for it, they could fabricate pretty much anything. Doug Rademacher: Let's talk about your union a little bit. [25:41] Did you attend union meetings? George Nelson: Yes. Doug Rademacher: [25:45] How was the... how has your union involvement changed over the years? George Nelson: Uh, immensely. They, you know, I've been blessed with getting' a good job through them. Hope it continues. But, uh, they, they supported ya, you know. And there's, there's lots of opportunities within the union out there. And, uh, any time your involved with it and, you know, you, you care about the people, you know, you got opportunities out there for ya, so... Doug Rademacher: [26:11] Did you see the union change in the way they do business? George Nelson: Oh, yeah. Big time. Uh, when I first hired in, it was definitely a war between, uh, union and management and now, it's not at all really. Doug Rademacher: Lansing has been known for quality and productivity. George Nelson: Mm-hm. Doug Rademacher: [26:35] What do you – can you connect that to something? What would be the reason for that? George Nelson: Uh, just we wanna be number one. I mean, peop-, people in this town care about buildin' cars and they always have. And, you know, no matter what anybody says, we build good cars. I mean, the only time they were limited in, uh, what we were doin' is when the materials were getting' more superior and, you know, you had to get by with what they were givin' ya and make the best out of a bad situation, but the whole auto industry back in the 70s went through that. I mean, you had cars – if you had anybody bought a car made in the 70s, you know how fast they rusted out and the paint peeled off and everything else. But, uh, now, you know, quality is definitely number one. Doug Rademacher: [27:18] Have you voted in the union and political elections? George Nelson: Yes. Doug Rademacher: [27:24] Did you participate in any of the political or social activities with supporting the union? George Nelson: Oh, yes. Doug Rademacher: [27:34] With your job, were you required to do any particular community service and what are some of the things that you did? George Nelson: I'm mean, not really – I'm not really required to do it, but I do, you know. We, we did the river cleanup years ago. We did all kinds of stuff. Just... Doug Rademacher: Doreen Howard. Doreen Howard: [27:54] [laughter] Um, you touched base on your job. What is your current job? [I mean, what, what do you do 27:58]? George Nelson: Uh, right now, I am a safety support for the [inaudible 28:02] body shop. I was safety advisor for 18 years for, uh, the body shop. Doreen Howard: [28:09] And what, what does that entail? What was that – George Nelson: Uh, basically, making sure any safety [calls that 28:13] the employees have, they'll put in safety [inaudible 28:14], kinda like a committee man for safety. Uh, I do safety tours once a week, follow-up tours, uh, make sure that the – everybody's up to date on all their safety classes. Um, just anything related to safety, that would've been me. Doreen Howard: [28:31] And when did you s-, start in that arena? George Nelson: Um, 18 years ago, so whatever that is. Doreen Howard: So, it's been a long time. George Nelson: Yeah. Doreen Howard: Okay. Doug Rademacher: Cheryl McQuaid. Cheryl McQuaid: George, you said you hired in on second shift. [28:43] Did you ever work the day shift? George Nelson: Yeah. I worked a day shift for, uh, six months. And about the time I got used to it, I got bumped back to nights. I'm on day shift currently. Cheryl McQuaid: [28:52] Did you notice any differences between those shifts when you first hired in? George Nelson: You know, yeah. Yeah. Day shift people, they don't wake up until probably after lunch. You know, that was the big standard back then. You could read a paper while you're doin' the job and any-, everything. And when I first went to days, you didn't re-, I learned real quick you didn't really talk to anybody too much in the morning, you know. Everybody just kinda did their job. But after lunch, it was on big time, you know. It would – it – the day shift was fun. I liked'm both, you know. I did lots of breakfast burritos on day shift. Cheryl McQuaid: [29:27] Where did you get the breakfast burritos? George Nelson: Uh, there was a guy named Val. He used to bring'm in all the time into the body shop and sell'm. Cheryl McQuaid: [29:36] Did he walk the line with'm? Did he – George Nelson: Uh, sometimes, yeah, 'cause he had a pretty good job, so he could kinda cruise around, but everybody knew where he was at, located at, and they'd always come over and got to where he'd sell out in the first hour anyway. Doug Rademacher: Doreen Howard. Doreen Howard: [29:53] Was there other people that was in the body shop that brought in other things? Did they, did they sell'm? George Nelson: Oh, yeah. We used to have our own little stores. Yeah, there'd be guys – there was a guy named Hawk, and he had a huge store over in the metal finish area and – I mean, he sold everything. Combs, shampoo, I mean, this guy had everything. He had a locker special built by the skill trades guys and it was, it was loaded with anything – basically, anything you wanted, you go over there and you could buy it. Doreen Howard: [30:20] Was there other food items? George Nelson: Oh, yeah. Doreen Howard: That, that people... George Nelson: Oh, yeah. They'd bring in – they'd bring in everything. I mean, they'd bring in everything from a roast pig to – I mean anything you could think of, people'd bring it in and sell. Doug Rademacher: Linda Johnson. Linda Johnson: [30:32] You had mentioned, George, that you hunt and, um, I'm sh-, your coworkers probably? George Nelson: Mm-hm. Linda Johnson: [30:42] Did you ever have, um, meals where everybody brought in their best, uh, item, you know? You might bring in – could you tell me about that? George Nelson: Yeah. Um, we used to have a intermittent relief guy named Ike [Kinsey 30:55], and that man was the best cook you could find anywhere. A couple times, I'd be out huntin' durin' the day working, uh, second shift and, uh, I'd shoot a deer, and I'd just cut off the whole hindquarter and walk in with a deer leg, right past security, and lay it on the table and he'd cut it up and cook it. Doug Rademacher: [laughter] Linda Johnson: [laughter] George Nelson: You know, it was hilarious. We'd have a good time, but yeah. All the time, we'd have meals like that. Pretty much every Friday for sure. Doug Rademacher: Doreen Howard. Doreen Howard: [31: 23] Did that change over time? George Nelson: Yeah, they start-, the, the meals you could still do, but they started, you know, they didn't want ya to have'm every week and, you know, then they got – came out with notices that you could only have'm for retirement parties and everything but – I mean, it's like anything else, you know, people go, "Yep, okay, we won't," and then they still do. So... Doreen Howard: [31:45] How, how did they cook the meat? You said you brought in a leg of a deer. George Nelson: Oh, they'd bring in – we, we had stoves, skillets, crock pots, the whole nine yards. Doreen Howard: So, regular old kitchen George Nelson: Kitchen. Oh, yeah, for sure. It was easy, you know. It was a good time. Doug Rademacher: George... John Fedewa. John Fedewa: [32:08] George, you'd, uh, back up a little bit here, talked about the current job you have right now. How'd you become to the position you have? Was it posted? Was it – George Nelson: Actually, we had an election. And that's how they used to do safety advisors. When I got back on, uh, all the safety team members, you know, if we had – the original safety advisor was getting bumped to a different department, and so we had an election and I won, and just kept the job ever since. John Fedewa: Okay. Doug Rademacher: Doreen Howard. Doreen Howard: You talked about safety advisors. [32:41] So, there's, there's more than one? In... George Nelson: Right. Each department – back in the day, each department had – we had two lines. We had a A and a B line and, uh, each line would have an advisor for each department, so there'd be two on second shift, two on first shift and, uh, a-, as time went on and they started getting' leaner, they cut it down to one to cover both body shop, and then they'd have one for the paint shops and one for the trim. Doreen Howard: [33:11] And, I guess, as the, as the safety advisor, what, what was your responsibly, um, to the employees and what's your responsibility as far as what management, um, expected from you – from that position? George Nelson: Um, just basically what I said before. Doin' the tours – you did the weekly tours and then that involves you pick an area and back then, we'd, you know, you'd have like seven, eight areas in a body shop, and you'd do a couple a week, and you go through and do a tour and address all the items that you found, and the expectations were the same for management as they were for the people on the floor. But then, I'd have to go out and help people when they had a concern like say a supervisor is tryin' to make'm do something unsafe, you know, or they got a fan that's broken or they got a safety mat that's not workin'. They would call me out and then I'd take care of goin' around gettin'm the proper people to fix it. Doug Rademacher: [34:06] George, is there a particular incident that you hold dear to your heart that, uh, that you were involved with in your safety position where you may have helped or saved somebody? George Nelson: Uh, well, I didn't save'm, but, uh, we had a guy that, uh, passed away out in Building 23. We had to do CPR on him, and that was – that was really rough because I'm part of the ER Team, Emergency Response Team, and we probably get called out on a lot of potential heart attacks, you know, and 90 percent of the time, the person isn't havin' a heart attack, but, uh, this time we rolled up, and he was layin' there and purple and everything, and it was, it was really rough 'cause before that, I had never done CPR on anybody and it's nothin' like doin' it on the dolls. I tell ya, not a thing, not even close. But, uh, yeah. I'll never forget that. And the family came in and thanked us. They had a big thing where they wanted to thank us for doin' all we could and – I mean, it was tough. There was a lot of tears. We met in this room right here and had a debriefing on it right afterwards. And I tell you what, that was rough. That was real tough. And I didn't even know the guy. I mean, you know, I'd never seen him before, but it was – not nothin' I wanna do again real soon, I know that. Doreen Howard: [35:14] How long ago was that? George Nelson: Mm, it was probably eight years ago. Doug Rademacher: You've been here with the safety group for 18 years. [35:26] How many, how many, uh, members have passed away under your... was it – George Nelson: Uh, while we're workin'? You're talkin' on the job passin' away? Doug Rademacher: That you know of, yeah. George Nelson: Oh, uh, actually, I think he's pretty much the only one I know that lost his life that I was involved with. Majority – you know, majority of the calls we get are lacerations and whatnot. And we get people out pretty quickly then. Doug Rademacher: Tell me, you have enjoyed, you said, good wages and, um, there's a bargain benefit package secured for you by the International Union and, uh, [36:11] can you tell us, what is your most appreciated bargain benefit? George Nelson: Bargain benefit. My most apprecia- [laughter] I, uh, appreciate'm all. [laughter] I mean, you know, to be quite honest, I do. Doug Rademacher: [laughter] George Nelson: I mean, we got it – as far as anywhere else in the United States, we've got great, you know, insurance. We've got great benefits, you know. You just don't find'm anywhere else. Of course, they're tryin' to change that, but [laughter], you know. We do. We got, we got the best goin'. I mean, you know, anybody you talk to doesn't pay for any of that stuff, and we end up – I mean, they pay for it and we don't, you know. So, you can't beat it. Doug Rademacher: [36:51] Did you ever take the opportunity to use your tuition assistance? George Nelson: Yep. Oh, yeah. Yep. Several times. Doug Rademacher: [37:01] That was just to further your – enhance your own life? Or was it [inaudible 37:04] position? George Nelson: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I took several of the classes that they offered and then back in the day, I took the ones where we, uh, we could actually get like a generator or a GPS and stuff like and went to class, you know, and ended up purchasing those from'm for extreme discount, and those were great. I wish they still had'm. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: [37:26] With community activities, has your job and your skills carried over outside of the, the working [environment 37:33]? George Nelson: Yeah. Every now and then, I'll go to – well, my daughter's school, whatever school she's goin' to at the time and do presentations on safety and fire safety and stuff like that. I don't take over for a fire chief or nothin' but, you know, just talk to kids about it and whatnot. Anytime I go on a field trip where it's an overnight thing, I let'm know I'm all, you know, CPR certified and all that and first aid certified in case somebody gets hurt. And it's come in handy at dance things like when a girl broke her arm and, you know, [laughter] stuff like that. So... it works. Doug Rademacher: [38:06] What's your thought about moving to this new Delta plant and the closing? I guess, first, what's the thought of the closing of the Fisher Body? George Nelson: Well, the closing's sad. Anybody that's worked here as long as I have and, and y-, or, you know, or even close, you know, and y-, you walk around this building now and it's just sad 'cause you, you can – you know, there's no voices out there. You can walk around the whole plant, and there's nothin' goin' on. You know, it's, it's just weird. It really is. And I – and, what was weird was when they cut out one line too. You know, when we were still workin', all of a sudden, boom, one line's gone. Then reality's startin' to set in, you know. I mean, our future's uncertain, even with a new plant it's uncertain. You know, more, more so now than ever, and it's just – it's weird. I'm excited about the new plant and – but I'm apprehensive too, you know, 'cause you're like goin' we've been here and been safe, you know, and now we're goin' out to a new plant that – who's to say they can't pull the plug on it, you know, at any time they want. I mean, everybody's talkin' all, "Yeah, this is all for sure, for sure," but, you know, you watch the news, you don't gotta be an Einstein to figure it out, you know. Doug Rademacher: [39:04] George, I wanna run back. Since you've takin' in – on the, uh, safety position, would you share a story about some of the things – there used to be old – the old Fisher Body, they built roofs over roofs. They've got, uh, different things that, uh, a lot of the average person would never even see in their lifetime. What – share something that you've seen here that you didn't even know existed before you got... George Nelson: Well, I can tell you a real good one. We were, uh, doin' something in the men's locker room. I, I can't even remember what it was, and we happened to look down at where one of the benches was bolted to the floor. And we lifted that up, and there's a secret stairwell [laughter] underneath it. It was wild. And so, of course, we went down there and, uh, when we got down in there, there were all these tables where whatever they did during the World War, I think they built munitions or somethin' in here or whatever, but – I mean, there are still tables. I mean, big as these here down underneath that locker room, and it, it was just – it was really neat. Old wooden tables layin' around and an old whiskey bottle was down there, and it – that was pretty – that was neat. I liked that, that was cool. Doug Rademacher: [40:21] How big was this room? George Nelson: Oh, God. It was probably 100 feet long and maybe 40 feet, 50 feet wide. It was, it was a pretty good size room. Doug Rademacher: [40:38] And it's underground in the middle of nowhere? George Nelson: Underground in the middle of nowhere, yeah. Yep. Doug Rademacher: [40:43] Are there tunnels also in this plant? George Nelson: Uh, not in that one. There's tunnels in this plant. I've been in several of the tunnels doing ERT things and, uh, those are pretty neat and creepy and, you know, old. But yeah, they actually – they connect us with the Genesis plant and y-, y-, used to be you could go a lot further, but they made blocks in'm, but you can go quite a ways underground around here. And I heard rumors that there used to be a tunnel that went across the street to Harry's too, but I don't know if [that's true 41:11]. Doug Rademacher: [laughter] John Fedewa: [laughter] Cheryl McQuaid: [laughter] Doug Rademacher: [41:13] And what is Harry's? George Nelson: Harry's is the local, uh, bar right across the street on Verlinden and, uh, I'm pretty sure that's a true story, but... Doug Rademacher: [laughter] Uh, Doreen Howard. Doreen Howard: [41:25] The tunnels, do you have any idea what they used those for and why they were built? George Nelson: Uh, the tunnel – the one tunnels I was talkin' about, we have, uh, steam lines and whatnot that run from plant to plant that are underneath, and I don't know how long they've been there, but they're, they're old. Doreen Howard: And... George Nelson: You know, and, and the other one, goin' to Harry's, well, that's just to get to Harry's. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: [laughter] John Fedewa: [laughter] Doreen Howard: [41:47] The steam lines, they were used because there's only the one power house that – George Nelson: Right. Doreen Howard: That makes steam? George Nelson: We had – we supplied our own power, and they supplied it for all the facilities around here. So... Doug Rademacher: [41:59] Can – could you please talk about that? Were you ever, uh – George Nelson: [sneezing] Doug Rademacher: The coal [inaudible 42:05] and the, uh, the feeding system for that, is that a – can you talk anything about that? George Nelson: Uh, they – we had large quantities of coal 'cause that's what they used to, uh, heat the plant and do the steam and do the power and, uh, they – it's just – y-, you had to see it. I don't even think I could describe how big the coal pile was. It was, it was huge. They had a front-end loader that would come in and pick the coal up and take it over to the power house, and they had all these chutes. And occasionally, they'd get fires in there, and I remember when we were first on the ERT, we had a fire there and we weren't very knowledgeable. I mean, we were just kinda fire extinguisher people and we [laughter] went out to put out a coal fire, you know, which you don't do. You just let coal fires burn 'cause you can't really put'm out. And, uh, I remember I was standing in the coal pile, and Bob Fell, who's not very big, he was hangin' on to my lifeline. I'm thinkin' I outweigh him by 100 pounds, and he's got me, and we're in this coal pile. Well, coal piles have air pockets in'm. They're very dangerous. You shouldn't even be out in'm, right? I mean, and I had no idea how deep this funnel was that fed all the ovens, right? Well, they're like 40 feet. [laughter] And I'm at the top of this thing, and I was glad to get out of that one without getting' hurt 'cause after we started debriefin' and talkin' about it, people were like, "You know how big those are?" And we went out and looked at'm and I went, "Oh, my God. I should never have been there," you know. Sp-, Bob would've got rope burns goin', "Uh oh!" You know? [laughter] Doug Rademacher: [laughter] John Fedewa: [laughter] Doreen Howard: [laughter] Cheryl McQuaid: [laughter] Doug Rademacher: Well, George, you've put a lot of years in. [43:47] What would you say to people that – we had a hiring group in about '95, so we have a lot of people that just came in with about 10 years seniority. What would you say to somebody that's just getting started in the auto industry or – what would be your, your recommendation to the people? George Nelson: My biggest thing with the, the newer hires that we have is just respect what's been laid out before ya, you know? What people fought for 'cause, uh, quite a few of'm – I was involved with orientation of new hires and whatnot, and there was a definite trend that once they got their 90 days in, that they thought the job was owed to them, and nobody's owed a job, you know, you gotta earn it. And, uh, a lot of that mentality has gone away, you know. People think, "Oh, I'm in here. I'm in the union, they owe me this," you know, and union and all that can go away in the blink of eye and you're gonna be out there with everybody else, so you need to appreciate what you have. Doug Rademacher: [44:35] Is there anything that you would like to share that I haven't asked you today? George Nelson: Just I'm really glad I met you, Doug. [laughter] John Fedewa: [laughter] Cheryl McQuaid: [laughter] Linda Johnson: [laughter] Doreen Howard: [laughter] Doug Rademacher: [laughter] Well, it's been pleasure meeting you too, George. We appreciate your interview today. Cheryl McQuaid: Thank you, George. George Nelson: Thank you, guys. Doreen Howard: Thank you. George Nelson: You guys have a good – /tl