Fonnie Price, an African American, discusses his career as a UAW production worker, skilled trades millwright, then GM maintenance manager at the Fisher Body plant in Lansing, MI Marilyn Coulter: Fisher Body historical team interview. It's [papers shuffling] Wednesday, February 1, 2006. We are in UAW Local 602's, Frank Dryer's Green House. Um, first we'll introduce the historical team. Jerri Smith: Jerri Smith. Cheryl McQuaid: Cheryl McQuaid. John Fedewa: John Fedewa. Gary Judy: Gary Judy. Marilyn Coulter: And I'm Marilyn Coulter. Today, we're here with Mr. Fonnie Price. [0:22] Mr. Price, could you please say and spell your name for us, please? Fonnie Price: Fonnie Price, F-O-N-N-I-E P-R-I-C-E. Marilyn Coulter: And your address, please? Fonnie Price: 3528 Lucie Street. Marilyn Coulter: Uh, Mr.… Fonnie Price: Lansing, Michigan. Marilyn Coulter: Okay. Marilyn Coulter: [0:40] Um, are you married? Fonnie Price: Yes, I am. Marilyn Coulter: [0:42] And do you have children? Fonnie Price: Yes, I do. Marilyn Coulter: [0:45] Um, boys, girls? [coughing in background] Fonnie Price: I have 2 boys and 1 girl. Marilyn Coulter: Okay. And… Fonnie Price: And my baby is 50 years old [laughter]. Marilyn Coulter: Is 50? Awesome. [0:55] So, um, were you born in Lansing? Fonnie Price: No, I was not. I was born in Carroll County Tennessee [clicking sound] and… Marilyn Coulter: And… Fonnie Price: I ca-… Marilyn Coulter: [1:03] …were you raised there? Fonnie Price: Uh, no I left at an early age and went to South Bend, Indiana. There I went to school in South Bend [at Elkhart 1:12], and I came here in 1955. Marilyn Coulter: [1:16] In 1955? Fonnie Price: Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: [1:17] So, um, now what's your education [scratching sound] [like 1:19]? Fonnie Price: Uh, [blowing sound] I, I finished high school and, uh, had some classes in college, but I didn't graduate. Marilyn Coulter: Okay. Fonnie Price: And I went to Lansing Community College for a number of years. Marilyn Coulter: Oh, excellent. [coughing in background] [1:32] Um, any military experience? Fonnie Price: Yes, I had – I was in the Army. I was a sergeant in the Army and that was 19 – the Korean War in 1951 to '53. Marilyn Coulter: [1:48] Um, now what did your parents do? Fonnie Price: Uh, my father died at [creaking sound], at an early age and my mother was a housewife [creaking sound]. Female: [Inaudible 1:57]. [throat clearing] Marilyn Coulter: [1:59] And, um, what did you do before you hired into Fisher Body? Fonnie Price: Before I came to Fisher Body, I worked at, uh, [thumping sound] Studebaker's, and, uh, I, – they closed and they laid me off. And [thumping sound] I was on my way to, uh, Flint to apply for a job, and I stopped here on Main Street to get a sandwich on my way to the plant. And there was a gentleman in there that worked at Fisher Body, and he had a hundred dollar bill [laughter]. [laughter] Fonnie Price: And he said – I said, "[Boy 2:36], where'd you get that money?" He said that, uh, he got that money from Fisher Body and if [you were – you could 2:43] get a job there and, and make all the money ya wanna make. I said, "Really?" He said, "Yeah." So I, I put an application in and, uh, he gave me his, his, uh, phone number that I could use as a reference. And I put my application in that day. It took all day, so I couldn't go to Flint. I had to go back to South Bend. And by the time I got back to South Bend, they were callin' me to come and work. I gave him my phone number in South Bend. He gave me his phone number here [thumping sound]. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: And, uh, they called him and he called me, so then I had to turn around and come back [thumping sound] to – down here that, that night to be here the next day. Marilyn Coulter: S-, wow, that's awesome. [3:30] S-, do you [throat clearing in background] remember the man's name? Fonnie Price: Uh, his name was [Goosby 3:35]. And I, I can't remember his real name, but his name was [Goosby]. Marilyn Coulter: [Goosby], okay. Fonnie Price: Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: [3:43] So, and this, and now what year was this again? Fonnie Price: That was in 1955. Marilyn Coulter: 1955. Fonnie Price: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: So, um, [thumping sound] you went… Fonnie Price: I… Marilyn Coulter: …you went down there. [3:51] So what did you do? Did you get a room here? Did you stay with somebody? And how did you do that… Fonnie Price: That, that, that… Marilyn Coulter: …[with your 3:55] job? Fonnie Price: …I came back that next morning [squeaking sound]. I stayed in the parking lot [clicking sound] right out here [inaudible 4:00]. [clicking sound] I slept in the car and, uh, until it was time to go over there and do the, uh, physical and all that stuff. So I spent the, I spent the night in the car, and the next morning, I went over there. And by the time I finished, uh, there was some more people around, so I asked a lotta questions to find out where I could get a room… Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. Fonnie Price: …and stuff. And there was a lady here that, uh, was doin' hair. Yeah, I can't think a her name either. Anyway, I got a, I got a room from her and, uh, I was married at the time… Marilyn Coulter: Yeah. Fonnie Price: …and I had a little baby. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: So I got the room. That was on Friday. I got the room and I didn't even stay here 'cause I went back to South Bend and, uh, ya know, cut some ties and that type of thing… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: …to make arrangements to come back down here on Monday, which I did. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: And, uh, [cracking sound] I stayed here [screeching sound] 1 week and worked [thumping sound] and then I went back [creaking sound] the next week and got my wife and baby. [thumping sound] Marilyn Coulter: Awesome. Female: Cheryl McQuaid. Cheryl McQuaid: [5:10] Mr. Price, you said that when you turned in your application at Fisher Body [clicking sound] it took all day and you didn't have time to go to Flint. Why did it take so long to put in the application? Fonnie Price: There was so many people out here [thumping sound]. A lotta people had to be interviewed and that type a thing. And besides, [creaking sound] it was already up into the day that day because I had driven from South Bend and it was pretty close to lunchtime. That’s where I stopped to get that sandwich, and it just took most of the afternoon to, to get an application [and to 5:38] – and I didn't really expect them to, ya know, call me tha-, that early. Cheryl McQuaid: [5:42] Was there a long line? Fonnie Price: Yeah, there was a lotta people, a lotta people. And, uh, as I remember, there was a lotta people in the waiting room making out applications and that type a thing. And then we had to be interviewed. But they didn’t really tell ya that much. 'Cause I really didn't have an idea that I would be hired, [clicking sound] but that they were takin' applications and they were, uh, ya know, they were all nice to me and everything. But they gave me no indication that [clicking sound] I would be hired. Marilyn Coulter: So your first day you slept in your car, you cut your ties, you come in there. [6:16] What was the first department you hired into? Fonnie Price: I went into, uh, the body shop [rattling sound] and, uh, we had, we were, we had [tapping sound] the hoods with the air [thumping sound] in the back and we were sanding, doing the sanding to the cars. There was grinders and things like that. And, uh, [sighing sound] the dust was terrible in there, ya know. But it was okay because you had this hood [clicking sound] that covered your face… Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. Fonnie Price: …and th-, and your, and your body and your torso. And, uh, then you had the air that was coming [thumping sound] into the back of your head [thumping sound] thr-, so you could breathe. Marilyn Coulter: Oh [inaudible 6:56]. [6:57] So you were kinda lookin' like a spaceman, huh? Fonnie Price: Lookin' like a [thumping sound] spaceman [chuckle]. But it was, it was,[clicking sound] maybe, uh, ya know, there was a complete line of us and we, uh, we had our own little world in there so to speak 'cause no one wanted to [clicking sound] come in too much [chuckle] because [clicking sound]… [laughter] Fonnie Price: …a-, all that [dryin' 7:16] dust, ya know. We would, we could [thumping sound] direct that [dr-, that 7:18], fire it at any direction, ya know. If the foreman come in, you just pshheeww right at him, ya know. [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: [7:24] Oh, [thumping sound] it'd shoot sparks at him, huh? Fonnie Price: Yeah. You could direct it in any direction. Marilyn Coulter: [7:28] So [thumping sound] what did you think about that when you, ya know, here you are, [throat clearing in background] you, you, you walk in and you're in this body shop and they put ya in this spacesuit and…? Fonnie Price: [laughter] Uh, it was okay because I was young at that time, [clicking sound] ya know, and I had worked in a factory. See I worked at Studebaker's… Female: [Inaudible 7:46] Fonnie Price: …and, uh, I had, I had been working in the factory for quite a while, so I was familiar with factory work. And, uh, I was hungry, ya know. It didn't matter what [laughter]… [laughter] Fonnie Price: …I had a baby. I had a wife and a baby and [throat clearing in background] no money. Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. Fonnie Price: I had been laid off for quite a while. And, uh, they paid mo-, they paid, they didn't pay as much as, in here, as they paid, uh, at Studebaker's. But, uh, I was glad to get a job. Marilyn Coulter: [8:13] So may I ask do you remember what ya started in at as far as wages? Fonnie Price: It was somethin' like 96 cents an hour. But I had – when I was workin' at Studebaker's, I had been making like $1.85 an hour back then. [thumping sound] Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: They paid more. [thumping sound] I guess that's why they outta business. [thumping sound] But they paid more than any other plant around [thumping sound] [clicking sound] and, uh, I worked at Studebaker's before I went in service. Marilyn Coulter: Oh. [thumping sound] Fonnie Price: So my co-, seniority continued while I was in service. Female: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: And, uh, [thumping sound] they, they, uh, they, they sent me my vacation pay, [thumping sound] holiday pay from Studebaker's. Marilyn Coulter: Oh. Fonnie Price: They sent all that. [thumping sound] [Inaudible 8:52] that's probably one [thumping sound] of the reasons they outta business. But anyway, that was a strong union over there. [clicking sound] And, uh, I, I worked there and that was considered one of the best jobs in the state, in that state. That was 'cause [they 9:07] worked at Studebaker, "hey that's nifty. You got it made for the rest of your life." Marilyn Coulter: [9:10] Now at Studebaker's, [tapping sound] may I ask what union was that with, were you with over there? [car sound in background] Fonnie Price: That was, uh, that was, uh, that was a UAW. Marilyn Coulter: [9:18] Oh, it was a UAW? Fonnie Price: Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: Okay. Um, so you found out they were hiring, you worked in the body shop, [clicking sound] and your first day, so you guys, you, you said you were in your own world there. [9:31] What was it like if you – how did you communicate so if after you had your hoods on and were you in spacesuits? Fonnie Price: We had a shield, a face shield… Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. Fonnie Price: …that was made outta plastic. Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. Fonnie Price: And we could… Marilyn Coulter: [9:48] Oh, so you started learnin' to read lips? Fonnie Price: Yeah, so to speak. [laughter] [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: Oh [throat clearing in background]. [9:54] For a minute, I'm like okay he's, and then I realized you had to learn how to – so you had to develop your own way of communicating… Fonnie Price: Right. Marilyn Coulter: …in there? Fonnie Price: Right. Marilyn Coulter: [10:00] So, um, when you hired in there, were there like new hire initiations, pranks, or something like that? How did that, how'd you guys… Fonnie Price: No. Marilyn Coulter: …pass the time, other than shootin' sparks at each other? Fonnie Price: Shootin' sparks and throwing discs [pshheeww sound]. Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. Fonnie Price: And things like that. Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. [Inaudible 10:16] Fonnie Price: And [inaudible 10:17] we were pretty amazing too, ya know. You had to, you had, it was a job. But most of the time wer-, I could do his job and mine wh-, he wanted to go [clunking sound] and get a drink of water or… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: …something like that. But we had a relief man that was supposed to do that. But we could just [clunking sound] relieve each other because after [thumping sound] a while you could do the job well enough where you could do 2 jobs. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. [10:39] Now did you work day shift, night shift? Fonnie Price: I started, I started workin' on the day shift and after, I, I worked until I learned the job and then they put me on the, on the, on the night shift. But at that time we worked [thumping sound] 2 weeks and then we'd be off 2, I mean we'd do 2 weeks [thumping sound] on days, 2 weeks on nights like that. Marilyn Coulter: Oh. [11:00] How was that workin'… Fonnie Price: Oh… Marilyn Coulter: …every… Fonnie Price: It was… Marilyn Coulter: …every other week? Fonnie Price: …it was no good, no good at all. Cou-, your body could never get adjusted to it, ya know. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: And, uh, I wasn't there very long before they changed that. And, uh, I voted against it because [blowing sound] I will say at least I get 2 weeks on days, ya know [chuckle]. So I voted against changin' to a straight shift. Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. Fonnie Price: But then they got – it passed anyway and then I was put on days. I voted against it and still got days. Marilyn Coulter: And still got your days. Fonnie Price: Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: I was gonna say 'cause that's kinda difficult for a wife and new baby and everything… Fonnie Price: Right, right. Marilyn Coulter: …that's a lot. So now, you hired in in 1955. [11:36] In 1955, were there very many African Americans that worked there? Fonnie Price: Uh, not an awful lot. Um, we had a, we had the, ya know, we had the menial job. We had the jobs that were kind of undesirable, ya know. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: Um, th-, the gates. Moving the gates was a heavy, hard job. Truckin' them bodies at the end of the line, that’s the hard part of the job, ya know. Pushin' the, pushin' those bodies on the trucks from one line to another line. There was nothin', none of that was automatic or anything. Had to man-… Female: [12:11] They had to do all that manually? Fonnie Price: …had to manually [throat clearing in background] do all that, turn the bodies around and start it on the other line [tapping sound]. And then you had the wet deck where that was hard work. Not a lot of black guys worked up there. Marilyn Coulter: [12:23] And that was in the body shop also on the wet deck? Fonnie Price: No, the wet deck was in the paint shop. And then they had the, the, uh, grinding booth where I worked. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. [12:33] [thumping sound] That's where they usually put most of the African Americans? Fonnie Price: Yeah [inaudible 12:36] Marilyn Coulter: Uh, Jerri [Tindler 12:35], I mean Jerri Smith. [laughter] Jerri Smith: [12:39] How long, uh, did you work in the body shop [doin' 12:42]? Fonnie Price: I worked in that for more than 10 years until I w-, I worked in the bo-, I left the body shop and went to, uh, the millwrights, skilled trade. Jerri Smith: [12:52] Straight from the body shop… Fonnie Price: Straight from the body shop. Mm-hm. Jerri Smith: …right in? Marilyn Coulter: [12:56] So while you – Marilyn Coulter – while you were in the body shop did you always do the grinding? Fonnie Price: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: [13:00] For 10, you grinded for 10 years? Fonnie Price: Mm-hm. I had an opportunity to come out [tapping sound], but I was so good at it that, uh, uh, I, I just chose to stay in there. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: Because, uh, th-, the only [thumping sound] danger there was the, uh, getting lead poison. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: And there was no danger if you took a bath every day [thumping sound]. Marilyn Coulter: Oh. Fonnie Price: You had to take a shower every day to wash all that, th-, you leave all your clothing, ya know, at work. Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. Fonnie Price: You'd put on new ones every day. Marilyn Coulter: Gary Judy. Gary Judy: Yeah. I worked in the body shop in the… Fonnie Price: Uh-huh. Gary Judy: …a job similar to that. [13:39] Did they – at that time, did they ever send you guys down to get tested at medical to check the level... Fonnie Price: Oh, yeah. Hm-hm. Gary Judy: …back then? Fonnie Price: We had to go down every 6 weeks and get a blood test. Gary Judy: Yeah, I wasn't sure if they were doing that back then. Fonnie Price: Yup. They were doin' that then. But I never had any problem because I, I never would, uh, uh, eat in there or eat before I wash my hands and I took a bath every day, took a shower every day. So I didn't have any problems. I didn't take the lead home with me. Gary Judy: [14:08] Did, did they let women work in there at that time or? Fonnie Price: No, there was hardly any women working in the plant. No, women couldn't work in there then. There was very few women working in the plant at that time. Marilyn Coulter: S-, so, [scraping sound] 2 things. Number 1, I'd like to make note that, um, Mr. Price is 78… Male: …6. Marilyn Coulter: …6… Fonnie Price: 70 s-, I'll soon be 77. Marilyn Coulter: …he says and he looks fantastic. So obviously he took very good care [throat clearing in background] of himself [laughter] in the lead booth and 'cause [laughter in background] he looks perfectly, perfectly young [chuckle]. And, um, but – now you said there weren't very many [thumping sound] women in there, they were in the body shop. [14:45] In the [rattling sound] 10 years that you were down there, did any women ever start working down there? Fonnie Price: Oh, oh yeah. They started to bring women in, ya know, in the, in some of the, uh, easier jobs and things, ya know. Uh, but they wouldn't put women in the, in the booth because the, because of the pregnancy… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: …they might, they might get pregnant in the timeframe and they might be, be exposed to the lead. Marilyn Coulter: And now I know you said that there weren't very many African Americans there and then if they were there they had undesirable jobs. [15:15] So I take it there were no African American supervisors at the time, right? Fonnie Price: Uh, no, there was, uh, there, uh, [O-, OJ 15:23] was ab-, I say he was about the first Afri-, I mean African American supervisor. And, uh, no he wasn't supervisor then. They didn't have any then. [Jack Lawrence 15:33] was the first, [tapping sound] [Jack Lawrence] was [inaudible 15:36]. Marilyn Coulter: [Jack Lawrence]? Fonnie Price: He was abo-, he was in body shop. He was about the first African American supervisor in the body shop. But that all came later. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: Ya know. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. So and I'm [thumping sound] trying to think. [15:48] [O.J. 15:47] is that Jack O. Johnson…? Fonnie Price: [O.J. Henderson 15:50]. Marilyn Coulter: …[Henderson]? Okay. Okay. [15:56] So you said that, um, you then became a millwright? Fonnie Price: Uh, yeah. See what happened was, uh, [thumping sound] uh [sigh] – when I was working at Studebaker's… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: …I, uh, I applied for the millwright. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: And I would – I had been accepted into the sch-, trades, at, at Studebaker's… Marilyn Coulter: [Oh 16:19]. Fonnie Price: …when they started to cut back and lay off again. [thumping sound] But I never went into the millwrights, but they accepted me and before I could get in… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: …they laid me off. [thumping sound] So I was aware of the skilled trades [inaudible 16:31], ya know, was a better job [chuckle]. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: So then I came right into Fisher Body and started right away trying to get into the millwrights. [thumping sound] And, uh, I spent, uh, about 10 years tryin' to get into the millwrights [thumping sound]. Um, [McKistry 16:47] was the engineer, [thumping sound] plant engineer at the time. And, uh, I would go down and, after, after work, ya know, I would go and stop by his office and stop in and talk to him [thumping sound]. And, uh, he, ya know, he was quite fr-, he says, "You know, we just don't have any black guys," ya know. A-, a-, and he said, "The white guys won't work with ya," ya know. And I said, ya know, I said, "Well, hey, I never had trouble gettin' along with anyone," ya know. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: But he said, "I tell ya what ya do." So he said, "You, [tapping sound] uh, work doing changeover and, and, and [inaudible 17:25] to community college." S-. Marilyn Coulter: [17:30] So you can explain what changeover is please? Fonnie Price: Changeover is when the lines were down for [changing 17:37] models from the 56 to the 57 and the skilled trades make all the changes [thumping sound] that's necessary so when the [production 17:45] [tapping sound] comes back to work, everything will be ready to run. Marilyn Coulter: So… Fonnie Price: So the mill, the, the skilled trades [thumping sound] would work doing changeover. [laughter] Skilled trades would work doing changeover. And, uh, uh, I would work with'm, work with'm doing the changeover. [coughing in background] And they would work 7 days a week at that time [inaudible 18:10]. Marilyn Coulter: [18:10] And how long would those changeovers be sometimes? Fonnie Price: 3 months sometimes. Sometimes it would be, uh, uh, 10 weeks or 8 weeks or… [car sound in background] Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: …what jus', they were, they had long changeovers in those days. They were always trying to get to the place where they could cut down the number of weeks that, uh, they had, it took to, to, uh, finish the changeovers. Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. Gary Judy. Gary Judy: [18:34] Back at that time when they had those long changeovers, what did the workers do for money? Did, did they have SUB-Pay back in the 50's or? Fonnie Price: They didn't have SUB-Pay. They had unemployment compensation. Gary Judy: [18:45] So they just drew unemployment and that was it for… Fonnie Price: Right, right. Gary Judy: …for 3 months? Fonnie Price: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: [18:50] So you're lear-, learning your cra-, craft and you started going to LCC? Fonnie Price: I started going to LCC, taking classes. And, uh, I, uh, during the changeover I would work with different guys and, and I would talk to the, uh, to the guys and find out what trade, what classes I needed to take, ya know, to learn the trade. [clicking sound] So I took mechanical engineering and drawing and, uh, welding, stuff like that. Marilyn Coulter: So now, he said that he didn't think that they would work with you. [19:28] As an hourly employee, supplementing, [scraping sound] doing your changeovers working with the millwrights, how did they treat you? Fonnie Price: [laughter] I stood a little over 6 feet tall and I weighed about 200 pounds, so everybody treated me pretty good. I've always stood up straight [laughter] and I'd be a man everywhere I go, so I had no problem there. And I treated everybody right and I never had any problem. I never had any problem whatsoever. A lot of people probably did, but I didn't. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. [And it was 19:58]… Fonnie Price: [Inaudible 19:58] I just didn't, yeah, I just wouldn't, I would not allow anyone to treat me other than me… Marilyn Coulter: Right. Fonnie Price: …'cause that's what I am. Marilyn Coulter: [All right 20:08] So, um, obviously they did help you because they told you what types of classes you needed to take. Fonnie Price: Uh, the, the, [different employees 20:17], different ones. I, I had good friends, ya know. We were friends, ya know. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: When you're workin' 7 days with someone… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: …and, uh, it becomes a social life and a, and a workin' life also. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: So you get to know people pretty good. And the guys were just [batters 20:37] with me, ya know. They mostly with, mostly apprentices because [clicking sound] we were, ya know, young and [inaudible 20:43]. [papers shuffling] Marilyn Coulter: So… Fonnie Price: But we'd drink together and party together and work together. Marilyn Coulter: [20:50] So it, it extended outside of the work place. Fonnie Price: It extended outside of the work place because you're workin' 7 days a week. And at that time I was workin' on third shift, so you had no social life, except with the guys that you're workin' with. Marilyn Coulter: [21:03] And what were the hours for third shift? Fonnie Price: Uh, it, from 11 to 7:30. Marilyn Coulter: From 11 to 7:30. So… Fonnie Price: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: …[21:10] that was your work family and your, then became your friends. Fonnie Price: Yes. Marilyn Coulter: [21:15] Um, did a lot of these friendships extend throughout your work history? Fonnie Price: Even today. Marilyn Coulter: [21:18] Even today? Fonnie Price: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: Excellent. [grinding sound] [21:21] So, um, 10 years you finally get into the trades? Fonnie Price: Yes. Marilyn Coulter: [21:27] So how did that go for you when you finally [scratching sound] [inaudible 21:29]? Fonnie Price: Well, I, I was the first black guy to come into the trades. So it [tapping sound] was, uh, it was pretty good. [And I just gotta 21:38] say everybody treated me okay. But, uh, naturally, a-, any guy, don't matter what color you are, you were given the worst job. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: But, uh, the fact that I had gone to community college, and I didn't publicize this, they didn't know that I had gone to, to, uh, school. I had learned to weld and to cut and I had learned blueprint reading. I could draw blueprints. I had, took mechanical [drawing 22:05]. I knew all those things that was necessary to be a millwright. Marilyn Coulter: Oh. Fonnie Price: I knew in the befo-, in the beforehand. So when they took me in, I had to pretend that I didn't know nothin' because they would’ve [inaudible 22:20], they, they would’ve been jealous of me. Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. Fonnie Price: And – but you come in as a trainee. I went as a trainee. You supposed to be trained, ya know. So – but I knew all these things and I, [tapping sound] I just pretended that I didn't. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: And as the results of me knowing these things and pretendin' that I didn't know'm, I learned'm so fast they said, "That's the smartest man I ever seen." [laughter] Fonnie Price: But I wasn't. Ya see, I had [inaudible 22:49]. [throat clearing in background] Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: But anyway, I hadn't been in the millwrights over a year when the superintendent came to me and told me that he wanted me to start preparing to be a supervisor. It scared the devil outta me, 'cause you go, you go for 4 years training to be a millwright. Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. Fonnie Price: And, uh, I told him, I said, uh, "Don-, don't do this to me." I said, ya know, "The guys would have no respect for me whatsoever and no one" – I said, "I don't wanna be a supervisor like that," ya know. But I said, "I have a family." At that time, I had 3 kids. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: I said, "I have a family and I wanna do better just like everybody else, but I don't want to be supervisor now, ya know, I don't." He said, "But you kn-, you said you learn so fast and [inaudible 23:33] "yeah, but I don't want [clicking sound] to be." He said, "Wait till I'm – wait until I have my journeyman's status… Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. Fonnie Price: …and then you talk to me again." He said, "The minute you become [chuckle] a journeyman, I'm gonna make you supervisor." That's what he told me. So I had 3 years to switch, ya know. I said, "Oh, my goodness." [inaudible 23:50] [laughter] Gee whiz, ya know. All I wanna do is – I, ya know – hey… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: …I'm happy with havin' a job at Fish-, Fisher Body, you know, then you tryin' to make me a millwright. Oh man, I got [inaudible 23:59] on my side now [inaudible 24:01] [laughter] Fonnie Price: And now you're gonna make me a supervisor. [laughter] Fonnie Price: Oh, I'm scared to death. Ya know what I mean. [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: So now you had a family, you came in, and you were making like 96 cents an hour [inaudible 24:13]… Fonnie Price: Oh yeah. Right. Marilyn Coulter: …uh, workin' on the line in the body shop. Fonnie Price: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: [24:15] How much of an increase did you get when you went to – as far as hour, pay per hour, as being a millwright? Fonnie Price: By the time, by the time I was in skilled trades, uh, uh, the ch-, the pay rate had changed considerably because we gotta raise every year… Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. Fonnie Price: …ya know. There were no merit raises. The only raise you got was through the union. [coughing in background] Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. [papers shuffling] Fonnie Price: But there was almost like a dollar an hour difference… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: …between the skilled trades… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: …and, uh, and the hourly. But I don't remember when it was, uh, ya know… Marilyn Coulter: [Inaudible 24:46] [laughter] Fonnie Price: …at that time. I really don't. Marilyn Coulter: [But it was 24:47] [still 24:48] you just remember [it 24:49] somehow. Fonnie Price: Right. Marilyn Coulter: [24:50] During that 3 years while you were preparing for what was coming and you knew that was coming, what were some of the things that you had to put in line to prepare you to be a supervisor over your coworkers? Fonnie Price: [laughter] Nothin', 'cause I didn’t do anything different 'cause I, y-, ya know, I just had, I had a bed that I would go and sleep in every night and all that stuff. So I didn’t do anything different. I just kept learnin' and, and everything. And, uh, and along about the last year, uh, they started to, uh, put me on different jobs so that I could get diversified. [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. Fonnie Price: And, uh, I, I didn’t really like that. But I had, I had – most of the time that I went through my training, um, I had, I had the crib. I was in, I was in the paint department. Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. Fonnie Price: And I had my own, own area… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: …of responsibility. And, uh, um, I, I just knew the paint department. But as far as, uh, building things, ya know, and things like that I would do on the, some weekends… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: …from doing changeovers… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: …something like that. So I had to learn all those things. [clicking sound] And I started to… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: …to diversify but that wasn't even my doin'. I was [inaudible 26:07]… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: …to the way things were. Marilyn Coulter: So a couple things. Now, now [inaudible 26:12] jump back to one thing. You said you guys made beds and slept. Fonnie Price: [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: Where – what [inaudible 26:18] what type of… Fonnie Price: I probably shouldn't tell that. [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: [26:19] …what types of places did you sleep and were there not [inaudible 26:22] and things [tapping sound] like that inside the plant? Fonnie Price: Uh, not as much as you would think, ya know. But the, uh – on top of the ovens and… Marilyn Coulter: Oh. Fonnie Price: …it’s always warm up there and, uh, in the summertime the, [tapping sound] the, the, [inaudible 26:37] houses. [The air all c-, cool 26:38], ya know. The air is cool going through there so you just picked a place and, and, uh, [thumping sound] you'd have your bed. Uh, you didn't have to work until [tapping sound] the line went down. Marilyn Coulter: Oh. Fonnie Price: So you would just rest till the line went down mostly. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: And then you'd…[creaking sound] [clicking sound] Cheryl McQuaid: [27:03] Mr. Price, could you please tell me a little bit more about your booth experience? You were in there for 10 years. Could you tell me a little bit more about the, the atmosphere, some of the things that you did just to get the day [papers shuffling], goin' through the day. I mean you couldn't talk to anybody. You were readin' lips. [thumping sound] Um, could you just tell me a little bit about [tapping sound] the booth? Fonnie Price: Well, okay. Uh, it – we had, we had takin' the job. It was un-, undesirable job to most people. But we had worked there so long that, uh, we really enjoyed it, ya know. Because it was our own little world and [tapping sound], uh, we played games and bring a book in and you could sit there and read the book. There was very jobs at that time where you could read, ya know. But people didn't – the, the supervisors didn't, didn't bother you much because you were doin' the job and you were doin' the undesirable job. [clicking sound] And, uh, we would throw discs at each other and, because we had the head protection, and, uh, we wouldn't hurt each other or anything. We'd throw, uh, [snuff covers 28:15] and throw discs and, uh, we just played most of the day. We would just play. You do our job [clicking sound] and then you'd read or play. There was some people in there that would, uh, you know not to fool with him. Okay. So, uh, there's always people like that. But there were always people that wanted to play all day. As a matter of fact, the guy that played that more than anyone was the guy that g-, di-, the guy that got to be the president of this union. [laughter] [thumping sound] Female: Dick… Gary Judy: Bennett. [coughing in the background] [28:50] Was it Bennett? Fonnie Price: No. I'm tryin' to figure his last na-. Marilyn Coulter: [Sandbor 28:54]… Fonnie Price: Sander, Sandburn. Female: Sanborn. Fonnie Price: Sanburn [chuckle]. He and I used to play all day. And, uh, oh, he was one guy. But anyway, I couldn't believe that he was president of the union but anyway [laughter]. We, uh, we, we played a lot and, uh, we protected each other. And the supervisor wouldn't fool with you because if, uh, they had a problem, they would take you outside and talk to you. And, uh, and if, if, if the guy ahead of you or behind you knew what the problem was, he would have to [inaudible 29:30] straighten it out. So we'd keep them from coming in there and bothering us and things. So we just kinda, uh, helped each other and we got the job done. Jerri Smith: Jerri Smith here. [29:43] Uh, could you explain to us exactly what the discs are you were talkin' about and you were throwing? Fonnie Price: Well, those are, those are round disc objects that you put on the machine [tapping sound] to grind the different bo-, parts of the body. [tapping sound] And that’s [coughing in background] what makes it spark. You gri-, what you do, you, you grind the discs against the body and make it smoother. [Inaudible 30:05] Jerri Smith: [30:05] Are they paper, metal? [clicking sound] Fonnie Price: They were made out of a cardboard type thing. Jerri Smith: [30:10] So they weren't heavy or? Fonnie Price: Oh, no. They were jus', uh. [sighing sound] Marilyn Coulter: [30:15] So was it sandpaper-like? Fonnie Price: Sandpaper like. It was sandpaper [thumping sound] on the, on, on the, that were flat, uh, pieces of cardboard [to make it sturdy 30:25]. They just called'm discs I guess. Cheryl McQuaid: Um, you had mentioned that you would shoot sparks and depending on how you angled the, the machine [thumping sound], you could shoot sparks and aim'm at somebody. Fonnie Price: Mm-hm. Cheryl McQuaid: [30:41] Were those sparks ever shot toward a supervisor? Fonnie Price: Oh yeah. Cheryl McQuaid: [30:46] And was there any kind of disciplinary measure because of that? Fonnie Price: Oh, no. No. Cheryl McQuaid: [30:50] No? Fonnie Price: That's why most of the time they would pull ya outside to show ya what your problem was, what their problem was. And they would talk to ya too then, when they take ya outside. But, uh, they, they, they would just – it wasn't do-, they weren't maliciously done. That was just the part of the game, ya know. [chuckle] Shoot sparks at the supervisor. [laughter] Fonnie Price: That was just, uh, part of making the day. And he wouldn't get angry or anything 'cause he really expected [inaudible 31:18]. He might even grab a machine and shoot'm back at ya. [laughter] Cheryl McQuaid: [31:21] So if you shot sparks at someone, it wasn't somethin' that hurt them? Fonnie Price: Oh, no. No. Cheryl McQuaid: [31:28] Just scared'm maybe? Fonnie Price: No, not really because, uh, they probably worked in there themselves and they know, ya know, they're familiar with sparks. And it's jus' – it looks worse than what it is. It was jus' shootin' sparks at someone. Marilyn Coulter: Mr. Price, I wanted to ask you. You said that you didn't eat inside that booth because of the health reasons. [31:50] So what did you do for lunch and where did you eat your lunch? Fonnie Price: Uh, well we'd go to the cafeteria for lunch. Or anytime you're i-, you're workin' in a booth and you come outside – you have gloves on in the booth – and when you come outside, you le-, you leave your hood and your gloves. And there's, uh, the washbasins on both sides of the booth. So you come out here and wash your hands. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: And you wash your face. And then [clicking sound] you go and you eat. Or if you come out for a coffee break, you come out and you wash your hands before you have coffee. Marilyn Coulter: So you said you went into [clunking sound] the cafeteria. [32:22] Was the cafeteria close to the body shop? Fonnie Price: Uh, it was centrally located where all of the departments could go to the cafeteria. The paint could go, the trim, body shop. Marilyn Coulter: [32:34] So how much time did you get for lunch? Fonnie Price: I'd get 30 minutes for lunch. Marilyn Coulter: [32:39] So there was enough time to wash up, take all your equipment off, wash your hands, go up to the cafeteria, sit and eat, and then walk back, do your job and? Fonnie Price: Right. There was no, ya know, there was no deviation 'cause, ya know, the line started, you had to be there. [chuckle] So if you s-, you [were there when the line stopped, 32:55] you there [coughing in background] when, when the line started. And it was enough time. [thumping sound] Marilyn Coulter: So now, you said also that you read in the booth? Fonnie Price: Right. Marilyn Coulter: [33:02] So is that when you took time to do your studies for your… Fonnie Price: No. Marilyn Coulter: …you never read your textbooks at work? Fonnie Price: No. It was too dirty in there. Marilyn Coulter: Oh, so you… Fonnie Price: It was too dirty in there. Marilyn Coulter: It was too dirty. Okay. Fonnie Price: And, and, ya know, it was only, I only, I would only have 1 class, ya know. I didn't need to work [inaudible 33:17]. I, I – as a matter of fact I didn't want anyone to know that I was goin' to school in the first place. And the second place, uh, ya know, I, I could do my schoolwork at, at home. Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. Okay. Cheryl McQuaid: [33:33] Why didn't you want anybody to know you were go-, goin' to school again? I'm sorry I. Fonnie Price: Well, [laughter] uh, [thumping sound] there's all kinds of people, ya know. Uh, I didn't want anyone to think that I was tryin' to be better than them or anything. So I, I would do what I would do [tapping sound] [inaudible 33:52] and then I would keep it to myself. Female: [Inaudible 33:56] [creaking sound] [clicking sound] Marilyn Coulter: 1955, 1965. Fonnie Price: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: [34:04] [clicking sound] What was the climate like for you? In the community, what did people think about factory workers? How did it affect your community back then? Fonnie Price: Oh, we were the community. And it was considered, always considered a, a good job if you worked for Fisher Body. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: [Inaudible 34:21] because it was one of the desirable things, working at Fisher Body or Oldsmobile. And, uh, you were accepted in the community and, uh, we were all – just to give you an example, ya know, back in those days, uh, most of, most of th-, most of the black people lived on, [paper shuffling] pretty close together on the… Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. Fonnie Price: …West side. And, uh, like when it snowed, we didn't have snow blowers and that type of thing. But I remember wh-, back in 1958 or 59 or something like that, we had a big snow and the whole community just get out there in the middle of the street and shovel the snow in the street. So we would have it so the firetruck could get through. I mean it was just a community thing, ya know. And, uh… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: …if, if somebody cooked, barbequed over there, then, um, [tapping sound] you better cook a lot of it 'cause, ya know, people are going drop – come over and. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: I joined the church in, Friendship Baptist Church, in 1955. And, uh, they just took me in as a… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: …uh, ya know, just like I had been a member for years. They took my whole family in, ya know. It was just a community thing. And it – [but I don't know then if they knew I was 35:39] working at Fisher Body. Marilyn Coulter: [35:41] And even [inaudible 35:42] – now in a sense, though, even though it wasn't necessarily Fisher Body, Friendship was close to Oldsmobile, yes? Fonnie Price: Uh, mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: [35:50] And how did that work? Bein' in a church that worked so close to a factory? Fonnie Price: Well, it was our church, ya know. [The factory 35:56], both Fisher Body and Oldsmobile. [Isn't 35:58] just a black church. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: And it, it worked fine. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. [36:03] And at that time it was one of the larger black churches in Lansing, correct? Fonnie Price: It was one of the larger and more permanent [clicking sound] churches. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Okay, um. [papers shuffling] So [inaudible 36:13]. So now we're gonna go back fa-, fast forward to when you become a millwright. Fonnie Price: Okay. Marilyn Coulter: So you're doing that, you have your 3 years, you're getting ready to go in to do that. [36:24] So you get your jour-, you get your journeyman's card? Fonnie Price: I get my journeyman status, mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: [36:28] And then what happened? [clicking sound] Fonnie Price: Uh, [clicking sound] right away they started bugging me about being supervisor. [chuckle] [throat clearing in background] And they had moved me – they would move me around to learn [scratching sound] different phases of the job. Because I had been [thumping sound] so concentrated on, in, in one area. They were reluctant to take me outta the area because I kept it running pretty good. But anyway, so, th-, they started to [clicking sound] move me around and, uh, it wasn't everybody that [inaudible 37:00] wanted me to be a supervisor. [tapping sound] But, uh, I finally did come in as a supervisor and, uh, [clicking sound] they put me over into the shippin' department, shippin' bodies to, to, uh, Oldsmobile… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: …across the street over here. And, th-, they hadn't built that part over there at that time. And, um, [coughing in background] [clicking sound] the-, he didn-, he, he didn't tra-, they didn't train me. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: Ya know. [chuckle] You-, you're supervisin' most of the company and, and, and then you work with a new, another supervisor for 2 or 3 weeks… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: …until you get the lay of the land [thumping sound]. But they just put me over there. I don't know if they was tryin' to see if I could do it or tryin' to make me fail or, or what. I don't know what the reason was. At the time, [clicking sound] I, I didn't resent it [inaudible 37:54] I didn't think too much about it, at the time. [thumping sound] Uh, they just called me in and then t-, and I went into the office and they said, "You g-, you got shippin' [today 38:02]. [thumping sound] Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: So [thumping sound] I just went on to work. Marilyn Coulter: [Uh 38:07]… Fonnie Price: And, uh,… Marilyn Coulter: Go ahead. Fonnie Price: Go? Okay. And then, [sigh] I guess I, I don't know what happened. But anyway I, I, I just went in and I told the guys that, uh, I was new and I didn't know what I was doin' and I need your help. So [that's it 38:23], [laughter] that's what, that's what happened to me. Marilyn Coulter: Okay. Now I wanted to go and I know that skilled trades is its own world in a sense… Fonnie Price: Yeah. Marilyn Coulter: …different from production. But how did those other production [creaking sound] workers feel knowin' that here you were, an African American man, getting ready to go into the trades and then [tapping sound] getting ready to become a supervisor. [beeping sound] [throat clearing in background] 38:47 How did they… Fonnie Price: [chuckle] Marilyn Coulter: …take it? Did you ever see… Fonnie Price: Well… Marilyn Coulter: …anything? Fonnie Price: …yeah, a lotta guys said that, ya know, that I wouldn't, th-, that I wouldn't be able to make it, ya know, because the, the guy, the white guy is not gonna to do it, ya know, [beeping sound] they're not gonna even need a supervisor. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: And then, and some of'm was really behind me and, [inaudible 39:05] "stick with it buddy, you can do it." And some of'm were, ya know, jealous and, ya know. Ya just… Marilyn Coulter: [39:14] So you got both? Fonnie Price: Yeah, you got both ends of it. But, uh, [thumping sound] I, I just never said – I just, ya know, it was just never a problem with me. I said, "Hey, [thumping sound] I gotta job over here. Granted I know I can do it. I can do it better than anybody else in the world." [chuckle] Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. Fonnie Price: If I can [clicking sound] make it here, [thumping sound] I can make it over there. Marilyn Coulter: Okay. Fonnie Price: So – but I says, "I can do this." So I just, [puffing sound] I always ask for help. I always did. Marilyn Coulter: Okay. Fonnie Price: And I always got it. The guys just would [inaudible 39:42] know. It's somethin' about people that you, you – instead of, [banging sound] ya know, bein' the boss, ya know, we all work in the [inaudible 39:53] here and that was my attitude and it just worked. [thumping sound] Ya know, I asked for help over there and I got it. But I would do – if we're – this is our department. This is our department. [thumping sound] What ya need you let me know and I'll get it for ya, ya know. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: And I did because, ya know, I would be on their side, all the time. If a guy, [inaudible 40:15] if, if one of the workers' father in Tennessee sick, I say, "You go and you take care of your father and when you're finished, you call me and," ya know, "you come on back to work." [clicking sound] But I, I would help them, then they would help me. Marilyn Coulter: Oh. And was that just Fonnie Price's way of doing things or was it something that… Fonnie Price: [Inaudible 40:41] Marilyn Coulter: …as an employee you knew what you would like to have seen in a supervisor and maybe you did or didn't see it, so when you had [creaking sound] the opportunity? Fonnie Price: I, I didn't analyze it. [thumping sound] I guess I didn't analyze it that way. It was just hey we're all working here together. As long as you workin' with me, I'll work with you. [clicking sound] And that was just my attitude [clicking sound] about everything. If you needed, [inaudible 41:05] you get 1 pair of gloves a week. If you wore your gloves out or you lost your gloves, you [scraping sound] get another pair [throat clearing in background] of gloves without even sayin' – without even askin'. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: Ya know. [tapping sound] Who cares about whether you use 1 pair of gloves or 2. But tha-, back in those days, [thumping sound] ya know, that was a big thing [thumping sound]. You could get 1 pair [inaudible 41:21] [thumping sound] Marilyn Coulter: [41:24] So how long – so you stayed a supervisor until you… Fonnie Price: I stayed a supervisor… Marilyn Coulter: …[inaudible 41:29]? Fonnie Price: …[thumping sound] uh, for like a year and a half and then, [thumping sound] ya know, they cut back and I had to go back to hourly and [thumping sound] then I would have to go be a supervisor in another department type of thing. Marilyn Coulter: [41:43] How did that transition [scraping sound] [thumping sound] work for you? Fonnie Price: [sigh] [chuckle] I went in with the same attitude everywhere I went. [laughter] Marilyn Coulter: [41:49] So was it a difficult transition for you? Fonnie Price: Uh, I, I, it, it could've been I guess, but I wouldn't let it be 'cause I just wouldn't allow it to be, ya know. Marilyn Coulter: [42:01] And because you were a good supervisor, when you came back people didn't mind you comin' [thumping sound] back? Fonnie Price: Well, I had a reputation I guess as bein' kinda easy. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: But I would get the job done. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: And, and, and a lotta [thumping sound] guys wanted to work when they were asked to work with me. [thumping sound] They wanted to work with me. And I always did say with me [clicking sound]. And, uh, they didn't work for me, [thumping sound] they always worked with me. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. [42:27] Did you have the same social rapport with [papers shuffling] your, uh, fellow supervisors as you did with your fellow [inaudible 42:34]? Fonnie Price: Yeah, I got along with the supervisor pretty good 'cause I played golf. Marilyn Coulter: Oh. Fonnie Price: And I drank with him. We'd party and we'd play golf and I would bowl with him [thumping sound] [inaudible 42:51]. Marilyn Coulter: [42:52] So you did a lot of the activities… Fonnie Price: I did a lot of the activities… Marilyn Coulter: …outside? Fonnie Price: Outside. Marilyn Coulter: [42:55] And you had, um, did you have supervisory friendships that extended outside of the plant until this day also? Fonnie Price: Yes. Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: Okay. [43:03] So then you went back and forth from being a mill-, a journeyman millwright to a supervisor and… Fonnie Price: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: …did at any point you became permanent as a supervisor? Fonnie Price: Oh yeah. I became a permanent supervisor and then I stayed on for years and, uh, then they decided that they wanted to make me a general supervisor. [clicking sound] Then I had to go through that period again. Oh my goodness. [laughter] But I said, "I can do anything." I – my s-, [thumping sound] my supervisor called – my, the superintendent, plant engineer called me in and he said, uh, uh, – I knew that they would, would move me around, ya know, to different places and, uh, he called me and said, "We want to make you a general supervisor." He said, "What do you think about that?" He said, "Can you do it?" I said, "I can do anything." [laughter] I said, "I can do your job," ya know. [thumping sound] I said, "I can do anything." Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: Ya know. Uh, the, the thing that made the wh-, all the difference I think to me – what made the difference [coughing in background] in, in that plant for me, uh, – and I did it kinda unknowingly – was when I went to school and I got ahead of'm… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: … ya know. And I came in and, and, and got the, uh, reputation of being smart, ya know. Marilyn Coulter: Oh. Fonnie Price: Because I had gone to school and I knew… Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. Fonnie Price: …some things that I had to, to know when I went into trades, so I kinda got the reputation of being smart, which I was not. I just learned some things early. [thumping sound] Marilyn Coulter: Gary Judy. Gary Judy: I have a question. You mentioned that, ya know, when you started out you wanted to get ahead.. Fonnie Price: Mm-hm. Gary Judy: …and, and, uh, moving from production to, uh, [thumping sound] to a journeyman, to a supervisor, and then to a, a general foreman. [45:01] Did you see – did you get the pay increases that you expected? Was it more or less than you expected or… Fonnie Price: Well. Gary Judy: [45:09] …was you happy with the, the increases that you saw? Fonnie Price: I was happy with the increases that I saw because, uh, I didn't really know what to expect. Uh, [inaudible 45:20] I had a lot of go-, good friends that was hourly [clicking sound] still and I knew what they were making 'cause I would take the checks to'm [thumping sound] and everything [inaudible 45:28] pay'm [thumping sound] all the time. And my pay was much better than theirs. And, uh, uh, when I got to be general supervisor, they gave me a big raise, ya know. And then I got merit raises every year. Uh, uh, so it was all [thumping sound], all – money was always good. And, uh, [thumping sound] they, uh, they gave me a key to the executive, uh, uh, cafeteria and, uh, I'd go to lunch up there [inaudible 46:02], ya know. And, uh, [thumping sound] they'd have a big lazy Susan there with, uh, [clicking sound] uh, full of nuts and [tapping sound] mints and stuff. [laughter] [Inaudible 46:13]. Gary Judy: [46:13] So, so that was a special, uh, dining area for, for – you had to be a general… Fonnie Price: General, uh,… Gary Judy: …supervisor or up… Fonnie Price: …of, uh. Mm-hm. Gary Judy: …to eat there? Fonnie Price: That's right. And, uh… Gary Judy: [46:23] Can you tell us a little bit about that? How –… Fonnie Price: [laughter] Gary Judy: …what the difference between the 2 cafeterias were? Fonnie Price: Okay. Marilyn Coulter: [46:29] Well, actually there was a difference between 3 cafeterias, was there not? Fonnie Price: There was just 2 cafeterias. Marilyn Coulter: Oh. [46:34] So [throat clearing in background] the regular hourly supervisors ate with the hourly personnel? Fonnie Price: Right. Marilyn Coulter: Oh, okay. Fonnie Price: And, uh, th-, you had to have a key to get into the executive cafeteria. And, and you go in and you sit down and – at a chosen place wherever – and, uh, and, and you'd have people that wait on you and bring what you wanted. And if you wanted it made special, you'd make, you'd have them make it special. [creaking sound] But it was, it was, uh, it was, that was – I tell you, uh, I was the only, I was the only black in there [inaudible 47:10]. I was the first black [people 47:11] in there, ya know. And boy, I'm telling you, that was hard, ya know. [papers shuffling] But I said, "[Inaudible 47:19], I'm the general foreman. I'm goin' in there and I'm gonna make it." And when I fir-… [laughter] [laughter] Fonnie Price: …when I first went, I would go in and I tell ya the worst part of the day was [inaudible 47:29] havin' to go to that cafeteria at lunchtime, ya know. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. [laughter] Fonnie Price: But I said, "Hey." I, I, I – 'cause I, I had a lot of friends [on 47:36] supervisors, ya know, and we'd go out together and all that kinda stuff. And I said, "I'm gonna make it. I'm gonna do it until I'm comfortable with it," ya know. [humming sound in background] And pretty s-, [clicking sound] and when I first went in I would go in and, and, yo-, you know, people are a habit, [tapping sound] ya know. You, you – when you go to sit [thumping sound] every day [scraping sound] you sit, [thumping sound] [throat clearing in background] sit that place every day. I'm beatin' on the table. And, uh, eh, I went in and I didn’t know where anyone else was sittin'. Whatev-, I just went and found me a seat. [laughter] And, I, that's the where I sit. And, and, and it was – they were givin' me a little room and stuff, ya know, at first. And, uh, then pretty soon, uh, everybody else started to kind of [papers shuffling] migratin' to where I was, ya know. [thumping sound] Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: And [thumping sound] then, uh, it, it, then it got to be the place where [scraping sound] lunchtime was the best part of the day because we would have a ball in there, ya know. And, uh, I was right there with them and they were all enjoying and everything. And they would – a lot of the guys that wouldn't work with me outside was, uh, [scraping sound] workin' with me on the inside the cafeteria. Not workin' with me, I mean, uh… Marilyn Coulter: Socializing. Fonnie Price: …socializing, ya know, on the inside. Gary Judy: [48:49] So was it still the same, uh, half hour lunch or did that change from…? [clicking sound] Fonnie Price: Uh, most of the guys had an area of responsibility and, uh, they had to be there at a certain time. But we were not as, ya know, if you stayed over 10 minutes or so, or 15 minutes, you could, you could do that. [thumping sound] Ya know, that was just – they were a little more lax in there. We didn't, ya know – you set your own schedule. Uh, [clicking sound] most of the guys were makin' out their own work schedule. Marilyn Coulter: [49:18] So did you also use preferred parking also? Fonnie Price: Yes. Uh, we had preferred parkin'. We had a supervisor, general supervisor parking area, [thumping sound] [coughing in background] general supervisor. Uh, it was on one side of the street and the hourly and the supervisor go on the other side. And, uh, yeah. And you, you didn't have your name on your parking space, but it's just like a s-, with your seat in the cafeteria. Ya, you, you have habits and you always do the same thing so you always parked in the same spot [inaudible 49:50]. And there was – oh, that's Price's parking space, then I'll park over here, ya know. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: And it was kind of like that. Gary Judy: Uh, now you were in there when they changed that parking where, [thumping sound] where the supervisors and superintendents had their own special parking lot and it was [creaking sound] changed to where everybody had to park in the same lot. [50:16] Was you still there then when… Fonnie Price: No. Gary Judy: …that happened? Fonnie Price: I left there in 1984 and they changed that in 1984. Gary Judy: Yeah, I was the person that got that changed. Fonnie Price: [Did you 50:24]? Gary Judy: Yeah. Fonnie Price: Well, I – they never changed it while I was there. And they, they still had the executive cafeteria when I was there. Uh, uh, but, uh, it, it was – they changed [tapping sound] it right after that. Right after I left they changed that and they changed, they changed it to where [thumping sound] al-, ya know, everybody would eat in the same place… Gary Judy: Yeah, that was, uh, Frank Shotters and me, if you remember Frank. He was the plant manager back then. [papers shuffling] [50:49] Was he there when you was there? Fonnie Price: …[inaudible 50:43] Fonnie Price: No, [uh-uh 50:50. He wasn't there [sighing sound in background]. [Inaudible 50:52] he came after me. Gary Judy: But they started the [EPG 50:54] programs. [50:55] Did they have that when you were there? Fonnie Price: No, they didn't have that either. [laughter] Gary Judy: Oh. [papers shuffling] Fonnie Price: No. Gary Judy: Oh. Fonnie Price: But, uh, [papers shuffling] yeah, I left. [Inaudible 51:05] but at the time just before I left, uh, I was a young man. I was 55 years old when I retired. And, uh, [clicking sound] I had – to me, I had been in the glass office for years and years and years. I mean I – over there I had my office had glass on 3 sides. And, uh, I, I, I had been just observed, ya know. For s-, it, it appeared to me that I had just been observed, ya know, [inaudible 51:48] Marilyn Coulter: You were in a fishbowl. [laughter] Fonnie Price: Yeah, I was in a fishbowl, ya know. And I, I just got tired of it. I got tired of it. [thumping sound] Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: They started grooming me to be a superintendent. I didn’t know [clicking sound] what they were talkin' about. That was when they were talkin' about, uh, uh, uh, joining Fisher Body and Oldsmobile together. And, uh, they started [clicking sound] grooming me to be a superintendent and I asked him, my super-, my boss, I asked him, ya know, if, if I was doin' a good job for him. And he said that I was doin' an excellent job, so I said, "Why are you [inaudible 52:30] me if I'm doin' such a good job?" And he said that, uh, he needed a superintendent and I was gonna be it. And I said, "I don't want to be a superintendent," ya know. What he was gonna do – I was, I was, been in skilled trades all the time. I always had. I had, I had industrial truck, painters, uh, the welders, small tool repair [clicking sound], mechanics, and shipment. That was all my responsibility and sanitation on both shifts. That was my responsibility. And I had learned to do that job and I had learned to do it well. I could do my job and go play golf in the afternoon. [laughter] Fonnie Price: Uh, so I knew I was doin' a good job, but he was goin' to make me a superintendent. And he was goin-, uh, make me a superintendent over sanitation in both Oldsmobile and Fisher Body. Marilyn Coulter: Mm. Fonnie Price: And even though he was promotin' me, I felt like it was a demotion. I would’ve been superintendent with my own car and all that stuff, office on that side and an office on this side. Uh, but I was in skilled trade. I was skilled trade. I didn't wanna be sanitation superintendent. [car sound in background] And I didn't want to be in the fishbowl anymore. [chuckle] [thumping sound] Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: And so I said, "Well, th-, then I'll retire." Marilyn Coulter: Mm. Fonnie Price: So I retired. Marilyn Coulter: [54:19] So you retired? Fonnie Price: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: [54:22] Um, is there anything – it's been an awesome story and an awesome journey, and is there anything that, um, that we haven't asked you that you'd like to go on the record? People knowing about your life as, at Fisher Body. Fonnie Price: [chuckle] I don’t know, uh, I hadn't even thought about a lot of those things that [inaudible 54:53]. [clicking sound] It's been a long time since I left. I don't know. Jus-, just for the record, I'll say that, uh, I really enjoyed working, [clicking sound] working there, with General Motors. I really did. They really provided me and my family with a better than average life. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: We were [scraping sound] middle class or whatever, ya know. But my kids had a lot of things that a lotta other kids didn't have… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: …as a result of me workin' at General Motors. And they always treated me fairly, ya know. Always treated me – there was some occasions when things happened, but that's just life. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: Uh, but it was always a pretty good, pretty good, uh, place to work. And I always looked at General Motors as a family, ya know. I live with part of my family and I liked, I liked it and I thought they were on my side. And they would tell me that, that they coerced me in to be, to go from hourly to salary. They said, "you'll live better and you'll work better and, and when you retire you'll have a better retirement." And they lied to me about that and I'm resentful of that. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: I really resent that. Uh, when I worked, when I worked th-, I had a key to the executive, I had executive dining room, I had a place to park, I made good money. I got bonuses, raises. All those things were forthcoming to me. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: And they, they indicated that, that it'd continue to be that way… Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. Fonnie Price: …when I retired. Marilyn Coulter: Uh-huh. Fonnie Price: But the moment I retired, they walked me to the door, they gave me my [clock 56:50] and put their foot in my behind. Marilyn Coulter: Mm. Fonnie Price: As a salary employee, 'cause you, you, you're talkin' about hourly here and then, uh, – but listen I'm telling ya the way they treat the salary employees, their retire is ridiculous. Marilyn Coulter: [Really? 57:07] Fonnie Price: It really is. Uh, sinc-, since I retired, I tried to get a bunch of the retirees to go together. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: We have breakfast together out here, uh, once a month and talk about this and that’s all we do is talk about it. But they don't – since 1990, since 1995, I have not had a raise of any kind. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: From General Motors. Marilyn Coulter: [Mm 57:42]. Fonnie Price: Now you think about that. An-, uh, that’s over 10 years and I haven't even had a cost of living increase in my pay. But they have taken $159 a month away from me… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: …to pay my insurance. [throat clearing in background] I retired in 84 and I had 2 raises since then. Now that's 22 years without a raise. That's livin' on what you were makin' 22 years ago. How would like to do that, ya know? Just think about that. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: [Inaudible 58:12] know what you made 22 years ago. I'm not sayin' that I'm in poverty, but I am sayin' that they don't treat the salary employees well. [Inaudible 25:23] hourly employees and the union, they get a bonus every year. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: I don't get any bonuses… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: …or raises. Marilyn Coulter: [58:34] Do you think that's why some line supervisors come back to the line before they retire? Fonnie Price: No, because they don't believe that General Motors would treat'm that way. I talked to, uh, to, uh, salary employees now that are my friends… Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: …I tell them don't retire [inaudible 58:53], but they can't, they can't go back to hourly now. But when they could, I said, "Don't retire as an [inaudible 58:57], retire as a salary employee." Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: Because… [thumping sound] Gary Judy: [59:01] S-, s-, s-, Gary Judy, so do you see a, a need for more unions in this country after bein' treated the way you were treated? [throat clearing in background] Fonnie Price: But of course. The salary [thumping sound] should organize. Salary should organize and they should have reunion and, and, and they shouldn't allow ju- – we don't, we don't have no voice. [clicking sound] We got, we – 1 year, uh, 3 or 4 years ago, at the auto show, you might a, I don't if you guys have heard about it or not, but at the auto show we got th-, we got the buses together to take salary employees down to the auto show. And we called the newspapers and we was, we were picketing down there at the auto show. Marilyn Coulter: Oh. Fonnie Price: And, uh, they said you can't picket down here. [laughter] But we did anyway. But it was cold. But, uh, we gotta article in the free press and our pictures [clicking sound] and things. [squeaking sound] But it didn't amount to a hill of beans because General Motors knows that they have the upper hand and we, we don't have a voice and there is nothin' we can do about it. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: And they just raised my insurance again this year without a raise in my income [chuckle] since 1995 they, uh, raised the [clicking sound]. Marilyn Coulter: So, um, I – even though you, um, felt that, um, after you retired you were done wrong… Fonnie Price: Mm-hm. Marilyn Coulter: …and the door was shut on you, [sigh] [thumping sound] Lansing Fisher Body [squeaking sound] has always been considered the capital of quality, people wanted bodies made by Fisher. [100:51] What would you attribute that to? What made our workforce different? Fonnie Price: Oh. I bein', bein' the supervisor [inaudible 100:01] have to say it, it was the supervisors. No, I, it was the quality of people. The quality of people here in this city. They so work-orientated, ya know. And most of the people that I came in contract with, uh, were just normal people. But they did some excellent work. And that, that's just, that's just the way it is here in this city. Marilyn Coulter: Mm-hm. Fonnie Price: Ya know. People are just work-orientated. They do quality work. Marilyn Coulter: Fisher Body [creaking sound] has been a part of the city of Lansing for many, many, many years. Now the doors have closed and soon the building will be coming down. [101:43] Being a resident of Lansing and a retiree from there, how does that make you feel? What do you think about that? Fonnie Price: Oh, man. You just feel like there's somethin' missin', [thumping sound] ya know. I just drove by the plant over there and it just gives ya an empty feelin', ya know, to just, [thumping sound] to see that, ya know. You just don't wanna, you don't wanna to see it. They gonna tear it down. [thumping sound] And you just, [clicking sound] you just hate to see it, you really, really do, ya know. You feel like somethin's missin'. But as far as Fisher Body itself, I just think it's, it's been a wonderful journey, ya know. I enjoyed workin' at Fisher Body and it will always be, ya know, I get a warm feelin' thinkin' about it, even though I can't say the same thing for General Motors, ya know, as a whole. But, uh, Fisher Body [clicking sound] was a good place to work. Marilyn Coulter: Mr. Price, I wanna say thank you for sharing your memories with us and, ya know, it was awesome. And all I can say is thank you for paving the ground for people to come behind you. Fonnie Price: [Inaudible 102:48]. Cheryl McQuaid: Thank you, Mr. Price. John Fedewa: Thank you very much. Fonnie Price: All right. Gary Judy: Thank you. I really enjoyed your interview. Female: Awesome. [chuckle] Fonnie Price: Thank you. Marilyn Coulter: I really, really do. I really – that is just… /ce