Ken Slate discusses his career as a production worker, skilled trades electrician and UAW member at the Fisher Body plant in Lansing, MI Doug Rademacher: Hello. This is Doug Rademacher. I’m with the Fisher Body Historical Team and we are interviewing Ken Slate today. It is, uh, October 10th, approximately 10 minutes to 10 in the a.m., and we are in the Labor Relations Conference Room of the Fisher Body Plant. Good morning, Ken. [0:26] Would you please state your name, address for the record? Ken Slate: Uh, Ken Slate, 2205 West Tamarack Road, Lake Odessa, Michigan. Doug Rademacher: [clicking] [0:37] Are you married? Ken Slate: Yup. Doug Rademacher: [0:39] Do you have any children? Ken Slate: Three kids. Five grandkids. Doug Rademacher: [0:46] And your years of education? Ken Slate: Uh, got a BS in education from Central. Doug Rademacher: [0:56] Central being Central Michigan University? Ken Slate: Yup. Doug Rademacher: Okay. [0:59] And did you have any military service? Ken Slate: No. Doug Rademacher: Okay. We’re going to, uh, ask questions about your life or the history of your life at Fisher Body. [1:09] I’d like to ask you about your hiring in. Do you, uh – would you share your seniority and your hire-in date? Ken Slate: Uh, I hired in in September ’76. I, um, I actually moved back to Michigan [tapping] from Florida and was gonna go to teaching [tapping] and I found out they were hiring here, [tapping] so I applied and they hired me the following week. So I started out [tapping] on the line, up in Trim, on the old Cutlass line. Doug Rademacher: So ya hired into Trim. That’s the department in which you hired in. [1:46] Which shift did ya hire on to? Ken Slate: Uh, second shift. Doug Rademacher: [1:52] Can you tell me about your first day on the job, walkin’ into the plant? Ken Slate: Uh, that seemed kinda massive to start with. Like I’d try to memorize how, how to get to where I was supposed to go the next day, but the, uh – it was different. I’d never, never been in a factory before, so. Little scary, I guess. Doug Rademacher: [2:17] Do you remember your first job? What assignment did they put ya on? Ken Slate: First ass-, well, I don’t – I think they moved me around just a little bit, but then the first job they wanted me to learn, really, was, uh, put the rubber tape on the windshield of the Cutlass. Doug Rademacher: [tapping] [2:33] So what was the purpose of the rubber tape? Ken Slate: Well, the rubber tape [tapping] at that time held back the urethane and [tapping] keep the water out when you install the windshield. [coughing] Doug Rademacher: [2:46] The, um, area, did, did it have robots at that time? Ken Slate: No robots. Doug Rademacher: [2:52] So it was all done manually? Ken Slate: All manual. Doug Rademacher: [3:01] Did you, uh – I heard you just say that you came from Florida, and something about teaching? Can... Ken Slate: I taught in Florida for 5 years; mathematics. Couple years in junior high and 3 years in a senior high. Decided to come back to Michigan ‘cause I’m from here. Doug Rademacher: Okay. Doreen Howard: [3:22] Did you have any relatives that worked here? Ken Slate: No. Doreen Howard: [Mm-hm 3:28]. Ken Slate: I had a relative in Lake Odessa. That’s how I ended up there. Doreen Howard: [Mm-hm 3:31]. Ken Slate: I grew up in Hesperia. It’s over, uh, north of Muskegon about 20 miles. Doug Rademacher: [3:43] So tell us about, uh, the department in which you worked. You said it was – it sounds like the urethane area. Ken Slate: Uh... Doug Rademacher: What were the people like? Did they treat you – when you were new, were – did they treat you, uh, friendly or what was the atmosphere in which you found yourself working? Ken Slate: People were friendly. Uh, the one funny thing I remember is there was a lady there that was ex-military, and apparently it was her job to check the new guys’ bellybuttons. [laughter] Or maybe all the new hires, I’m not sure, but [laughter] I don’t – that just a jokin’ around thing they did, I guess. She’s still here. I, I don’t know where she’s assigned to, but she... Doug Rademacher: [4:30] You remember her name? Ken Slate: I can’t remember her name. Doug Rademacher: [4:32] Did she check your bellybutton? Ken Slate: She checked everybody’s bellybutton. [laughter] Cheryl McQuaid: [4:36] Is that Sarge? Nancy? Ken Slate: Yup, that’s who it was. She’s still workin’ here, isn’t she? I... Cheryl McQuaid: Yeah. Ken Slate: ...saw her not long ago. Cheryl McQuaid: Yup. Doug Rademacher: So again, so you had, uh – that must a been interesting [laughter], for someone to want to see your bellybutton. [laughter] Here you thought you were comin’ to build vehicles. [4:57] Uh, do you remember which vehicle you started building? Ken Slate: Cutlass. Doug Rademacher: Cutlasses? [5:05] Did ya ever purchase a Cutlass? Ken Slate: No, I don’t think I’ve ever had a Cutlass. Doug Rademacher: Just wondered if you built the product that you made. [5:15] Um, tell me about, um – you said you hired in on the second shift. Lake Odessa, uh, is about 30, 40 miles out. Ken Slate: Yeah, about 45 minutes. Doug Rademacher: [5:26] So what was it like to work the second shift and your family life? Ken Slate: I didn’t see the kids much during the week ‘cause they would be off to school still [chair squeaking] when I left and in bed asleep time I got home. That was kinda hard on them, I guess, but I made pretty good money to make a livin’ on, so. Doug Rademacher: [clicking] ‘Kay. [6:02] Did your, uh, time in the plant – you had a place – we had a time when we changed, uh, names from Fisher Body to the BOC. Do you remember that time? And what was your feelings when ya lost the name Fisher Body? Did it have an impact on you? Ken Slate: You still had to call it Fisher Body or nobody’d know what you were talkin’ about, so it really didn’t matter. Ya still call it Fisher Body if you want somebody to know exactly where you were. Cheryl McQuaid: [6:33] How long did you do the urethane job? Ken Slate: Mm, I would guess a coup-, well, no, I only did it until I got my 90 days in, ‘cause then I got laid off for the weekend or somethin’, and then I leveled off and ended up in the Body Shop, Grind and Solder, 50, 50-grit or whatever they called’m. Uh, stayed right there until, uh, return rights got me outta there, got me back to Trim. Doug Rademacher: [7:07] So were you glad to have return rights back to Trim or did... Ken Slate: I was glad to get outta there, yeah. The next morning after I first run that machine I couldn’t open my hands up. You had to pry’m open with your other hand. Doug Rademacher: [7:19] So’d ya ever think about the people that worked that job on a day-to-day basis compared to you up in the urethane department? Ken Slate: Yeah, I after I left. Ya had to have regular, uh, blood tests to make sure there wasn’t s-, lead in your blood and [chair squeaking] had to wear a hood with air blowin’ on ya. I didn’t like the job, but... Doreen Howard: [7:40] For the people who don’t know what [papers rustling] that booth is and what you actually do in there, could you describe the booth and the protective equipment and things that you needed to have in order to go into that booth and what the people actually did in there? Ken Slate: Outside the booth, they put hot solder on the seam between the quarter panel and the roof. It’s about, uh, probably a foot long. And then the – soon as you got into the booth where you had [chair squeaking] – well, ya had water underneath and then air cyclin’ down through it that tried to suck the lead outta the air, and the first job was to run a 50-grit sander and try to shape it some, and then the next job was, uh, fire sand to get it more of a finished look. You had to wear a hood, came down below your waist, and then ya had to hook it up to an air outlet and it blew air for ya to breathe inside. I know when I first did it, it blew the air right in my eyeballs and dried’m out so bad they were all scratchy. I thought somethin’ was in there, so I ended up goin’ down to the hospital and had it all checked out. There wasn’t nothin’ in there; it was just dried out from the air blowin’ on it. Doreen Howard: [8:54] So this is definitely not a job that was a highly, uh, sought after job. Ken Slate: Job that somebody would get off of as soon as you had the chance to get an opening or something. One a the pranks they used to do in there was to put a little water where you hook up so when ya hooked up ya got sprayed right in the face. People thought it was funny, I guess. I don’t know. Doug Rademacher: [9:18] Did ya ever do that to anybody? Payback? Ken Slate: Uh, yeah, I think I paid people back probably. [laughter] Wasn’t like a floodwater, but enough to – where ya had to take the hood back off and dry things out so you could see. Doug Rademacher: [9:34] So they’d heard that your eyes were dry down at the hospital so they somebody put a little water in your hose, huh? Ken Slate: Fix ya up, yup. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: Oh. So you were glad to get back to Trim. [9:45] Did you go right back to the, uh, the sealer or did you just get return rights back to the Trim Department? Ken Slate: Just back to Trim Department. Doug Rademacher: [9:51] Then what’d you do? Ken Slate: Um, first job after I got back I think was when they – that first area where they came outta Paint; somethin’ to do with wiring or – either wiring or, uh, that molding that goes on the outside edge a the door. I’m not sure which one I got first. Not long after that, I ended up on Utility so I could move around and not do the same thing all the time. Doug Rademacher: [10:21] You volunteered for that or were you put on that? Ken Slate: Volunteered for that. Doug Rademacher: [10:25] So you went for variety so you weren’t doin’ the same thing? Ken Slate: Somethin’ to kill the boredom, yeah. Doug Rademacher: [10:32] So I know that, uh, it says here that you had moved into Trades after a few years, but can you tell me, when you were on the line, what was the best job you had on the line? Ken Slate: Best job. [tapping] I don’t know what that would be. Doug Rademacher: Could you tell me your worst job? Ken Slate: Worst job. Worst job, I guess, was reachin’ in the doors and tryin’ to hook things up in there ‘cause it was sharp. But, uh, all – no matter what job you got on, after you were on it for a while, it got pretty boring and your mind goes somewhere else and they ya wonder if ya did that job, so ya have to run back, look, and – [laughter] you’ve probably done that before, haven’t you? Doug Rademacher: Oh, definitely. [laughter] Always start second-guessin’ yourself. If, if you’d gain a few moments ahead, you had to wonder whether you did that last job. That’s, uh – definitely. [11:32] Did you, uh, experience the wagon? Was that here when you, uh... Ken Slate: They had the wagon, yeah. Shut the line down and go buy somethin’ from the wagon. Doug Rademacher: [11:42] Can ya share a little bit about that? Lotta people in the – lot of assembly plants and people that are gonna listen to this, uh, don’t understand what that was. Ken Slate: It was just a total shutdown on the line so everybody could take a break all at one time, and the cafeteria people had little carts and brought it out with sandwiches and sweet things and chips and whatever they could get on there they thought you might like. [scratching] It was kind of a good idea, I thought. Cheryl McQuaid: That’s kinda pre-vending machine days. Ken Slate: Yeah, you didn’t lose your money in the [laughter] [inaudible 12:22] and not getting [anything 12:22] back for it. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: [12:26] Um, you said a moment ago about getting your 90 days in. Were you under any stress at that time prior to getting your 90 days? Was there ever a time where you were, uh, led to believe you might not get your 90 or... Ken Slate: Several times, ‘cause they kept bringin’ over someone to learn my job so that then they could lay me off, but they brought over the wrong people and they had too much seniority; they didn’t have to take that job. They’d go somewhere else and then [they’d 12:57] start again. Doug Rademacher: [12:59] What’s the significance of 90 days? Ken Slate: In the union, locked into a job, unless there’s a big layoff or somethin’. Doug Rademacher: [13:11] Did you ever have a layoff? Ken Slate: Well, I actually got laid off after I got my 90 days and had to level off, ended up in the Body Shop, but I didn’t lose any time. I got laid off changeovers and stuff when I was on Production. What else did I take? I took a voluntary layoff one time on the Trades, but that was only like a week. I’ve never missed more than a week or two I don’t think. Doug Rademacher: [13:41] So was there ever a break in your seniority? Ken Slate: Nope. Kept right on goin’. Doug Rademacher: [13:49] And did ya ever take part in a strike? Ken Slate: Yeah, we were on strike, what, part of a week that time? That’s the only time I remember. I know it didn’t get to my turn to walk the picket line; we were back to work already. Doug Rademacher: [14:09] Do you remember the cause of the strike? Ken Slate: Contract, I guess. Um, I don’t know what the big issue was then. Doug Rademacher: [14:21] What was your feelings about going on strike? Did you support it or were you against? Ken Slate: No, I supported it. Doreen Howard: [14:32] You said that you, um, went from the Production over to the Skilled Trades arena? Ken Slate: Mm-hm. Doreen Howard: [14:41] Um, what is your trade and how long have you been in that arena? Ken Slate: Electrician of 24 years. Doreen Howard: [14:51] Are you still actively... Ken Slate: [banging] Still an electrician... Doreen Howard: ...an electrician? Ken Slate: ...yeah. Doreen Howard: Okay. [14:54] So y-, are you getting additional training at this time to, uh, go to the Delta? Ken Slate: Training and the meetings on new equipment. That’s what they got us doin’ now. Cheryl McQuaid: [15:08] Were you a fac-, are you a Facilities electrician or are you out of a s-, particular department? Ken Slate: Right now I’m GA. Didn’t have enough seniority to go to Facilities. There are only, uh, like 3 on each shift or somethin’ [at the new plant 15:23]. Cheryl McQuaid: [15:23] What is GA? Ken Slate: Trim. Cheryl McQuaid: [Inaudible 15:26]. Ken Slate: General Assembly. Trim, chasse, filing. My area’s gonna be, uh, Wheel Room and, uh, Filing Line. Unless they change their mind before that. Doreen Howard: [15:39] How, how will your job change, um, in comparison to what you did here in the facility, um, compared to what the expectations are at the new facility? Ken Slate: Well, it’s back to troubleshooting again. I spent, uh – after I got outta the apprenticeship, I started out in the Body Shop on the, uh – laid out side frame with a guy named [John Phillips 16:07]. He’s retired now. And then I went to the – they tore that out and I switched to a trunnion side frame system. I was there the whole time that was in, and they tore that out. Then they went with, uh – oh, what’d they call that third system? And it’s just a side frame [thumping] area and they had carriers that moved the parts around instead of, uh, instead of the trunnion system. Worked there on several different [cars 16:39] and then I got off a that into the building maintenance part, which is the [chair squeaking] Facilities. Did that for 5 or 6 years, and now I’m back on a Production job again. [tapping] Facilities has less stress to it. You’re not holdin’ the line up. Everybody’s wantin’ you to get it done right now, right now. Kind of a different atmosphere, I guess. Doreen Howard: [17:09] When you s-, talk about, um, the Body Shop and the trunnion and the side frame areas and things like that, um, could you tell me a little bit about the work that you did there versus what you mean by Facilities maintenance and the type of work that that particular group did? Ken Slate: The Body Shop stuff was all keep it runnin’, keep it runnin’ so production can keep goin’. Workin’ with robots and automated machines, and the first line had hydraulic robots and then, um, kind of a rail system that lifted up and picked up the side frame and shuttled down and lowered back down, and, and that, that was just, uh, all production, how to keep it running, how to make it bang 60 an hour out without fallin’ apart all the time, beefin’ things up, makin’ it so it didn’t rub, learnin’ what repairs you had to do on the robots. Sometimes it was just a matter of where to kick it to keep it goin’. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: [18:12] When you say that, knowing that, uh, Lansing Car Assembly was [chair squeaking] one of the highest productivity plants in America, how could that – ya know, looking at the way you said, uh, where ya had to kick it to keep it runnin’ or – did ya ever think about what it must be like to work in some other plant that if we were the, if we were the best and highest productivity, how could that possibly be? Ken Slate: Yeah, that crossed your mind quite a bit sometimes. People go out somewhere and then they come back and say boy, they’re glad to be back, it’s just a mess over there [thumping] where they went. [thumping] And ya knew what kinda mess you were workin’ with, you – it was kinda hard to understand. Doreen Howard: [18:56] And, um, you said you moved into the Facility Main-, in Maintenance. What exactly is Facility Maintenance? Ken Slate: Building Maintenance is, uh, runnin’ pipe and pullin’ wire to, to install things. It’s, uh, [tapping] lighting, it’s, uh, [papers rustling] some trouble caused with the pipefitters on pumps and things that aren’t workin’, but mostly it’s not related to production, unless it’s a, uh, ceiling [chair squeaking] light or, or somethin’ like that, but it’s, there’s nothin’ that holds the line. Doreen Howard: [19:30] So in the, um, electricians’ arena, a Facility Maintenance would probably be one of the more preferred jobs? Ken Slate: High seniority. Doreen Howard: [Thank you 19:42]. Ken Slate: I, I didn’t go for a long time [banging] because if I was the low-seniority over there with all the high-senior, [banging] then I’d be the one shipped out [thumping] to cover somebody that was gone or somethin’, so I just stayed in the Body Shop. [background noises] Doreen Howard: [19:54] Now, did you work as a team in your group or as a grou-, as – or more than two people or were you, uh, working alone with maybe another, uh, Skilled Trades... Ken Slate: On the... Doreen Howard: ...at another, from another arena? Ken Slate: ...first assignment at the Body Shop, there was two electricians that worked together [chair squeaking], plus a pipefitter and a toolie. And the next assignment we had, I think we started out with 4 or 6 electricians and time I left, there was only 3, along with a pipefitter and the millwright, or a toolie. Doreen Howard: [20:31] And that was for the whole entire Body Shop? [banging] Ken Slate: Just... Doreen Howard: Or just for your particular... Ken Slate: ...just for my area. Doreen Howard: ...area? Ken Slate: Just my area. Doreen Howard: [20:37] And, and how many areas, uh, as far as production area, [banging] how many s-, actual supervisors’ areas did you cover under your area? They – did they have like... Ken Slate: Just one production supervisor. Doreen Howard: W-, just one production supervisor? Okay. Cheryl McQuaid: [20:56] So you didn’t have to like maintain all of the Body Shop; it was just one specific area. Ken Slate: Just – well, yeah, it was just one side a the car we built. Most a the time it was on, um, we built the right side. [thumping] The left side was just a flip-flop of it. Doreen Howard: [21:11] And how many groups like that, like you were involved with, how many different groups was there for one whole department? Ken Slate: You got left and right side frame, that’s 2 different areas, and you got 2 different lines [thumping], so you got 4 just side frame areas, and you got the 2 car [banging] track areas. I never worked in [banging] underbody. Doreen Howard: [21:39] So you’re talkin’ about quite a few... Ken Slate: Quite a few... Doreen Howard: ...[quite a few people 21:42]. Ken Slate: ...areas, [background noises] yeah. Doreen Howard: [21:42] Now, will that change? Will the numbers change when you go out to the Delta Plant or are they gonna continue to do the same as far as, uh, working in groups and having, um, as many groups? Ken Slate: I think the Body Shop’s set up the same, but it’ll only be one line this time. But I don’t know how they’re dividin’ up ‘cause I’m not out there yet. Cheryl McQuaid: [22:08] Do you have a favorite partner? And why do you have partners? Ken Slate: Uh, a lotta times you have a partner because you got one person out there movin’ somethin’ and somebody else lookin’ to see if it’s makin’ a difference over here, see if you’re getting’ a signal back or – besides, it’s [background noises] safer in case somebody gets hurt if you got somebody else right there. Plus you got a 2-heads-better-than-1 idea. And it depends on the size of the area too. Sometimes one guy just couldn’t cover it, couldn’t be there. [chair squeaking] Different thing about the Trades and, uh, [chair squeaking] Production arena is the better you do your job, the better it runs, the less they need you. [banging] So if you worked all the bugs outta somethin’, pretty soon you lose a man and ya keep workin’ bugs out and ya lose another man and – just the way it is, I guess. Doug Rademacher: [23:07] Is that in Trades or Production? Ken Slate: Trades. Production probably does too [inaudible 23:12] get jobs moved around so that it [chair squeaking] works better. Doreen Howard: [23:20] You said that you work as, um, together as partners for safety. Has – have you, in your time here, um, experienced any, um, thing at all that would relate to the safety, either n-, good or bad, I guess, um, things that may have [thumping] happened in your experiences? Ken Slate: Knock on wood, I’ve never been hurt, but, uh, I did put a production manager’s hair out, got the fire out of it one time. Those hairdos that are poof things, full a hairspray. It was burnin’, so I... Doreen Howard: Oh no. Ken Slate: ...used my glove and [thumping] patted it out, and I think she ended up with a little burn on her neck. Cheryl McQuaid: Oh, I had heard about that in the Body Shop, because of all the sparks. Ken Slate: Yup, a spark got in that hair. Uh... Doreen Howard: Caught her hair on fire. Hm. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: I’m sure she’s grateful. [laughter] [24:18] So you’d notice, uh, an increase in the interest of safety over the years from when you first hired in? Ken Slate: A lot more safety conscious than they [inaudible 24:29]. Uh, lot more that they insist you lock things out instead a just wantin’ ya to get it fixed right now, worrying about safety later. [thumping] There’s a lot more – way more safety conscious than they ever were. Doug Rademacher: [24:45] Is lockout something that they do in every department or can you explain what lockout is and, and how that, uh... Ken Slate: Lockouts just... Doug Rademacher: ...[inaudible 24:54]? Ken Slate: ...put a little lock on somethin’ so it can’t move, [thumping] blockin’ out the air and electricity, or puttin’ a post in so s-, gravity can’t make it – let it drop, so you can’t get pinched or electrocuted or [inaudible 25:12]. Doreen Howard: [25:13] As, as an electrician, have – do you know anybody that’s ever had problems with being electrocuted or somebody forgetting to turn, ya know, [clicking] things off and – or anything like that? Have ya ever seen anything like that? Ken Slate: Well, let’s see. There was a contractor who got hurt pretty bad on a bus he was workin’ on and then come back from break and it was hot. There was another one that was installing a bus plug and got a hot bus and that blew up on him. Doreen Howard: [25:45] Wha-, what is a bus? Ken Slate: Bus is your 480 volts runnin’ along in the ceiling, you know, all over the shop that you hook all your power to. The rules are now you can’t hook a bus plug up with the bus hot. It’s gotta be shut off. It used to be you would megger the, the bus plug and put it in hot. That’s the way everybody did it. They went from everybody doin’ it hot to you didn’t have to do it hot unless you wanted and you had to wear a suit, and then now we’re sayin’ don’t do it hot at all; shut it off. If nothin’ shorted out there was no problem, but if somethin’ shorted, either between the two, two a the wires or to ground, it’d make a big fire and melt things. Doug Rademacher: You could become the, uh, conductive... Ken Slate: Yup. Doug Rademacher: ...component, huh? Ken Slate: You could get a big ball a fire come right at ya. Female: [thumping] [Inaudible 26:39]. Ken Slate: But I never did that [inaudible 26:42]. Doreen Howard: [thumping] [26:45] There’s a lot of, lot of danger inherent to y-, to your job if you are not, um, aware of your surroundings and, and keeping up with all the proper safety? Ken Slate: Mm-hm. Can be dangerous. Doug Rademacher: [27:03] What was your feeling about working with, um, women and minorities? Ken Slate: I never had any trouble workin’ with women or minorities, really, if they could do the job. The – there were women teachers when I was teachin’, there was always women in college when I went. It wasn’t, uh, an ingrained thing or somethin’ I was used to not bein’ around women or anything. Doug Rademacher: [27:34] Did you consider your coworkers brothers and sisters, as the union calls them? Ken Slate: Yeah, brothers and sisters or close friends. Pretty much. Jerri Smith: [27:50] How long do you plan on working? Do you plan on retiring in the near future or do you plan on keep on working? Ken Slate: Well, I’m thinkin’ 3 to 5 years more. I’ll only be 58 when I get my 30 in next year, so somewhere between there and 62 probably take – unless I’m havin’ too much fun or somethin’, I guess. [laughter] Doreen Howard: [28:20] Is there any, um, special [banging] friends or relationships [banging] that you’ve devel-, developed over your time frame here that you’ve, um, extended out-, to do activities outside of the plant with some of the coworkers? Ken Slate: I’ve got a few friends here. Some I just see occasionally, others do projects together and – or how are-, some a them are in Lake Odessa and help each other out when we have somethin’ goin’. Get together and visit’m. Got kinda close to John Phillips. He was the first journeyman that I worked with after I finished my apprenticeship. Taught me a lotta stuff about the welding; how to run weld cables and things you could change on a weld gun to make it work better. Doreen Howard: [29:14] W-, when you first, um, [banging] became an electrician, did they have any, [banging] um – oh, can’t think of the word... Doug Rademacher: Initiation. Doreen Howard: ...yes, initiations that, that they pulled on the, uh, [papers rustling] electricians? Was there somethin’ that they did to [papers rustling] the new ones coming in or something that, ya know, they told ya to go look for a particular, um, job or a particular area and there was no such thing or, or, or any kinda pranks or things that they did to anybody? Ken Slate: I don’t remember being pranked a whole lot. I know that John Phillips that I worked with for so long, he always knew who was jumpy and who wasn’t and he liked to make’m jump. He would come up behind somebody and touch’m, and the one guy used to say “chingawa” just real loud, and I never did [inaudible 30:11] what it meant but [laughter] he would yell that out, and then they would have a snake, he had a little snake that was, uh, wood and it was wiggly and he would make different people jump. One guy he would touch on the throat and he would say somethin’ and stick his tongue out real quick. He knew everybody that had any kinda little twitch like that, would get’m whenever he got a chance. [laughter] He’d take a roll a tape and roll it down, then it’d come hit somebody in the foot and they’d jump up in the air and they would just switch [inaudible 30:42] do that too. Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. [30:47] Was there, um, anything s-, at lunchtimes? I know a lotta groups on the line would get together and, and have, um, bible studies or cards or, um, book clubs or, ya know, different things like that. Was there anything that you were involved with at lunchtimes, ya know, that outside of... Ken Slate: Um... Doreen Howard: ...the norm? Ken Slate: ...c-, doin’ crossword puzzles... Doreen Howard: Crossword... Ken Slate: ...[inaudible 31:16]... Doreen Howard: ...puzzles? Ken Slate: ...different people. Played cribbage for a while. Some kinda card game, but I don’t remember what it was. We’d play at lunchtime and different crews would play, and after a while, there would be computers sometimes you’d play games on it. Doreen Howard: Mm-hm. Ken Slate: I learned that solitaire is not really [banging] solitaire in Skilled Trades ‘cause everybody helps ya [laughter] [inaudible 31:39]. You don’t really play it alone. Doreen Howard: [31:43] And did you guys have, um, dinners and things like that where you guys would celebrate? Maybe somebody’s birthday... Ken Slate: Retirement dinners we had a lot. Doreen Howard: Retirement dinners? Mm-hm. Ken Slate: Ended up, probably the last 6 or 8 years, helpin’ organize’m; orderin’ the food and deciding what to do and run and get paper plates and collected money for it. Doreen Howard: [32:08] So, so that wa-, so re-, a retirement dinner was somethin’ that most of the employees would go through? You would contact their family members and have’m come in for the day and, and... Ken Slate: Somebody else actually did that part, but yeah. Doreen Howard: [32:24] So they, they were able to see where their family member worked and... Ken Slate: Mm-hm. Doreen Howard: ...the friends that they had... Ken Slate: Family and some a their friends... Doreen Howard: ...[made over time 32:32]. Ken Slate: ...and their wives used to came in, and then they’d take’m around and see different areas and visit with everybody. Michael Fleming: [32:41] Ken, I wanna switch gears here and ask ya a couple questions, uh, about your time here at General Motors from your time you started. Obviously you’re an educated individual. What made ya stay at GM, uh, versus going into your, back into education? Um, did – as a tradesman, when until you’re recently, I’m sure, ya had to work overtime, we-, and I want ya to talk about the overtime that ya worked, the days on the weekend, if it was Saturdays and Sundays, and, um, I’d also like to know about, um, the benefits that you have now versus those when ya had when ya came in, the differences in those benefits. Ken Slate: Hm. I don’t think the health insurance is as good as it used to be. Used to be if you had Blue Cross, you were covered, but now you gotta make sure the right person does it and you got to, ya know, check ahead a time to where you’re gonna pay it or find out how much you have to pay. I don’t think it’s the same as it used to be. When I hired in on September, I thought I’d be back teachin’ school by Christmas. You know what I’m s-, I didn’t ever get back. [laughter] Michael Fleming: Never made it, huh? Ken Slate: Never made it back, nope. Um, for one thing, I was makin’ more money, and then when I got off onto the Trades and got rid a some a the boredom of the 60-an-hour stuff or even better, but I did work a lotta overtime. I’ve drawn 5 or 6 years [chair squeaking] of 1 or 2 days off, 3 days off a month, maybe. Work 7 days, 7 days. Just, um, [automatically 34:33]. Michael Fleming: [34:34] At the height of your overtime, uh, what would you say was the most you made yearly? What your yearly salary would’ve been. Ken Slate: Right around 80,000, 85,000, maybe. Michael Fleming: That’s kinda hard to beat, isn’t it? Ken Slate: Yup, kinda hard to beat that money. Michael Fleming: Yeah. [34:52] Um, changeovers. Were you workin’ changeovers, as well? What’d, what’d, what, where have we come from, where we used to be with changeover to a rolling changeover? Can ya talk about that? Ken Slate: When I first worked Production, we always got time off in the summer; got 4 to 6 weeks off. I’d go to Florida and visit the wife’s family, and come back and the garden’s all weeds, of course, and, uh, probably after I got [chair squeaking] 4 years in, and then I – part a the gettin’ on the Trades was you could work a changeover, and I worked like 10 weeks for 7 days a week with the electricians as a helper. Bought my wife a real nice guitar and a case with some a that money. [laughter] Remember that. But, uh, that’s sorta how I got on. I took the – they have a test you take, and then when I worked the changeover, I could take the test again and, uh, I got all the points I could get on it the second time, and then I think I waited another year or 2 before they added enough people on so I could get out. And what was the other part a that? There was more to that question [too 36:07]. Michael Fleming: Um, we, we talked about the benefits parts already. Um, you pretty much covered... Cheryl McQuaid: Difference in the changeovers, what the changeovers are like now. Ken Slate: Oh. Well, the changeovers are shorter now. Rolling changeovers [inaudible 36:23], but once you’re on the trades, that’s – you don’t get the time off anyway, and that’s when you have to work more, so. I don’t know what the new plant’ll be like. If we’re gonna work 5 days, 3 shifts, it seems like we’re gonna have to work weekends, but you always hear’m yellin’ too about they don’t wanna pay overtime, so. It’s hard to compare ‘cause the last 5 years, I don’t think they did much maintenance in this building anyway; they’d let it go, let it go, let it go. Plus, if it was gonna stop the line, they didn’t do it. Sayin’ they’re not gonna do that at the new plant, they’re gonna keep things runnin’ good, but money gets tight, they cut Trades, they cut your overtime, just let it go till it breaks, until it starts to hurt’m, and then they’ll – “Oh, we gotta work you guys now.” Kind of a cycle thing that they go through, where you get a new manager and he’s gonna save a buncha money by not workin’ Skilled Trades, and it works for a little while, and everything falls in a basket somewhere and say “no, we can’t do that.” Usually that manager’s gone by then, [tapping] so a new manager comes in and he takes the brunt of all the overtime he’s gotta work to get caught up again. Michael Fleming: [37:46] So am I hearing you say that there are times when your preventative maintenance schedule comes around and [chair squeaking] you didn’t, you didn’t perform that [papers rustling] duty? Ken Slate: That’s true. There’d be things when you did your inspection, it’d be on the list this time, it was on the list last time, and it was on the list before that; just didn’t get on the list to be done. They’ve done a lotta that. [Inaudible 38:15]... Doug Rademacher: [38:15] Did you ever do anything special for somebody? Uh, did they, somebody ask a favor of you either from Production or some project that they were doing at home that you were able to help them with through the, ya know, the knowledge of your trade? Ken Slate: Yeah, I’ve done things like that. I had a buddy that wired his own garage, and all – turned the lights on and they were all just a little glow. [laughter] He wired’m in series instead of in parallel, so you get [inaudible 38:42] [coughing] to each one and you don’t have any light, really. But it was kinda funny. Another friend wired a switch up and put [coughing] hot wire on one side a the switch and a neutral on the other, and every time ya threw the switch it broke the breaker, so it never did go to the light or wherever it was goin’ to. There was always somebody who needed an extension cord, somebody’s machine didn’t do quite like they thought it should [chair squeaking] so you’d go watch it, see if you couldn’t make it work better for them. Or the coffee pot they plugged in kept blowin’ the breaker, so ya found a new circuit for it so it didn’t blow the breaker. Or they needed a buncha power ‘cause they were gonna fry up a bunch – we used to – they’d, uh, make BLTs every now and then. They’d get 10 pounds of bacon, a bunch of tomatoes and lettuce, and a buncha toasters goin’, and they had to make sure you had enough circuits to hold all that. Doreen Howard: The important things in life. Ken Slate: Yeah. [laughter] Yup. Doreen Howard: Yeah. [39:45] Was it a common occurrence here to have people bring in a lot of items and, and have... Cheryl McQuaid: Cook? Doreen Howard: ...breakfast or lunches or... Ken Slate: Yeah. Doreen Howard: ...things that [inaudible 39:58]? Ken Slate: It’s quite common. Get together and cook somethin’ and all eat together, everybody’d either chip in some money or bring somethin’, or help get it ready, or – that was fun. Paint Shop did a lotta that, and I did quite a bit of apprentice time in Paint Shop. They, they were always celebratin’ somebody’s birthday here or somebody’s bringin’ cake in. DeLuca’s pizza. Doreen Howard: Oh yeah. Ken Slate: Can’t beat that. [laughter] Doug Rademacher: That was the easy way out, wasn’t it? Ken Slate: Yeah. Jerri Smith: My favorite. Doug Rademacher: Throw in and... Ken Slate: That was the easier retirement, was pizza. Michael Fleming: [40:33] Ken, talk about how long it took you to – in apprenticeship to finish your apprenticeship and finally get your card. Ken Slate: I did the 4-year apprenticeship in about 3 and a quarter years, I think, ‘cause we had lots a overtime during that time. When I did the apprenticeship, you worked your 8 hours and you did, went to school in the evenin’, or if you were on the afternoon shift, you could go to school in the daytime, but the way they do it now, they, they just leave work, go to school, come back to work. It’s all different. It really wasn’t – the classes you had to take wasn’t as structured when I went either. We, [papers rustling] we went over and took a bunch of electronics classes that weren’t even on the list at the time and somebody okayed it. I guess now they got a more, uh, fixed program for what classes ya have to take, when you have to take’m; tightened up a little bit. Probably some people in there didn’t take what they should’ve so they decided they had to get the reigns on with that. But at that time, you went to LCC and took your classes at night. There was another two electricians and a pipefitter and I all kinda ended up over there at the same time; go grab a bite to eat after work and get to class after that, get together and study some. Michael Fleming: [42:04] You – talk to me about your future, the future of, um, uh, Lansing Delta Township Plant. What do ya – what’s, what’s your feeling about the future of, of, of, uh, the old Fisher Body employees, especially the tradesman, going into, to LDT? Ken Slate: Uh, I know they’re gonna try to run lean. They’re gonna try to do what they always [banging] did to Production; they’re gonna run with so few people they can’t run and then they’ll decide they have to have more than that. They’ve never done that with Trades pretty much before. They kept enough Trades on to do the job. But they – some a the plans that they have, they, they’re sayin’ they wanna rotate people around and they’re not gonna have enough extra people to be able to do that, so I don’t know how they’re gonna do that part. Um, but they are doin’ the training, sendin’ a lotta people to all the schoolings. [So that’ll help 43:06]. Michael Fleming: Do you feel as, um, an employee from this plant moving into a new plant that we’re fortunate to be in that situation? Ken Slate: Oh yeah. Real fortunate to have a job to go to instead of bein’ out there in the area hire or wonderin’ where you’re gonna have to move to to make a living. The tradespeople, they, they, they try to s-, work in teams, but tradespeople have worked in teams forever, and they’ve problem-solved forever; that, that’s our job. But they’ll send us to the same schools that they send production to, but, I mean, if you have a problem when the line’s down, you’re not gonna go make a graph or, or make a flow chart and try to figure it out; they want it goin’ right now. So some a that really doesn’t apply, except for maybe a, a long-range problem. But the – we’ve done that before, tradespeople, yeah. Probably Production has too. If somethin is buggin’m on a job, they’re gonna try to get it changed. I – what’s weird for me is they keep sayin’ that we’ve got the best tradespeople and the best production people of the whole world and now they wanna say “But you can’t do it the way you used to. We’re gonna take this Japanese GMS stuff and you’re gonna do it that way.” Whether it works or not we’ll see, I guess. How can they be so good and now you gotta do it different? That’s like pattin’ ya on the back and kickin’ ya in the ass at the same time. [laughter] [Inaudible 44:40]. But you play the game. Michael Fleming: Oh sure. Doreen Howard: [44:48] [Inaudible 44:48], um, since you were into the Building Maintenance and that arena, how do you feel about what’s going on around us at this point, the, with the plant closing down and everything being removed and, ya know, what’s your feelings about that? Ken Slate: It’s just... Doreen Howard: [I mean, how 45:09]... Ken Slate: ...kinda sad to see it go, but you realize there’s gonna be a day when you drive down Verlinden and the building’s not even gonna be here. That – I think that’s when it’s really gonna hit ya, [somethin’ happen 45:18] different, it’s gone. It’s just an end of an era, I guess. Doreen Howard: Mm. Ken Slate: Start over again somewhere new. I’d get work like we made this work. Doug Rademacher: [45:36] What was your funniest moment? Did ya have a moment, either on Assembly or in Trades, that, uh, was humorous enough to – that you hold with ya? Somethin’ that happened was funny? Ken Slate: Other than that bellybutton check, I guess. [laughter] That’s the one that stuck in my mind, and the, and all the people that John Phillips would make jump and wiggle and giggle and move around ‘cause they were twitchy. Pretty much all that sticks in my mind, I guess. Doug Rademacher: [46:14] Can you share your happiest and your saddest moment of bein’ in this facility? Ken Slate: Happiest and saddest. I guess I don’t know what that would be. Doug Rademacher: Might not a had one. [laughter] Ken Slate: [Inaudible 46:33] but I can’t think of one right now. [banging] [banging] Doug Rademacher: [46:39] Did you attend union meetings as a... Ken Slate: Just some a the special Skilled Trades ones where they had information for votes coming up, and I know I went over there with, uh, [throat clearing] his name was [Art 46:56], [Art Procious 46:56]. They just called him Art the Old Fart. I went over to one a those meetings with him and I walked in with him, so I just [background conversation] – and he filed right up to front and he grabbed one a those vote things and filled it out and set it down and he left, so I did the same thing; missed the whole meeting. Lotta [banging] the meetings for that kinda thing were more bickering and stuff. If they’d a just handed out an information sheet, I coulda made the vote without listenin’ to everybody’s bitchin’ about it, but I sat through quite a few a the – ‘cause I know when they, uh – we used to have [Weemers 47:32] in the Body Shop that did the welder maintenance and separate from electricians, and we [chair squeaking] voted 3, 4 times. We kept votin’ until we voted the way management wanted to, which was to get rid a Weemers and had just electricians, which just burned them a little bit, but that’s the way they wanted it. [banging] ‘Cause when ya lost [banging] the Weemers, then you lost – the electricians couldn’t touch the water [chair squeaking] and pipe-fitting stuff and ya had to have a pipefitter and an electrician, and somebody else, maybe a toolie or somethin’, to do one job where a Weemer did it, all that, one group. Somebody in management decided they didn’t want’m. I don’t know, the union must a went along with it ‘cause we kept votin’ until we voted it out. Doug Rademacher: Just couldn’t get it right, huh? Ken Slate: Yup. Doug Rademacher: [48:21] Now, those Weemers, they came out of, uh, a different facility. We didn’t have Weemers in Lansing originally. Is that right? [tapping] Didn’t they bring those guys out of, uh, [throat clearing] Willow Run? Ken Slate: We had Weemers here when I hired in, but I don’t think it was an [banging] apprenticeable trade. I don’t know where the Weemers had come from, but I know they brought electricians in and they took Weemer jobs, but we didn’t really have Weemer apprentices, and then some people we got from other places were, were Weemers by trade and we just made’m electricians. They just waved a wand and said, “Now you’re an electrician.” Some of’m actually had to be trainees for a while. Doreen Howard: [49:05] What is a Weemer? Ken Slate: Welder Maintenance. Doreen Howard: Welder Maintenance, okay. Ken Slate: They worked on everything from the, um, transformer or somethin’ down to the end a the weld gun. They worked on the water, they worked on the electrical part; whatever need to be done to keep the welder welding. Doreen Howard: Thank you. Doug Rademacher: [49:28] What would you say to somebody that’s just hiring into General Motors if they got the opportunity? What would your message be to a new person in Trades? Ken Slate: Uh, new person in Trades. I’d just try to work as safe as you can and, uh, some people, too, that are in Trades don’t get along with Production people. I don-, I don’t know why they do that, and Production people know that too. I don’t know if they think they’re better than they are or what, but pretty soon Production – when you go up, the machine’s down, there’s a guy there that runs it all day long. It didn’t make no sense. He could tell ya what’s wrong with it, and he could usually tell ya how to fix it if you listen, but some people, they don’t want anybody tellin’m their job ‘cause they, they’re an electrician. [laughter] But just work with people, I guess. Be open-minded. They’re gonna keep trainin’ ya, they’re gonna keep gettin’ new stuff. Keeps it kind of exciting, I guess. Keep goin’. Doug Rademacher: [50:45] Well, do you have anything else you’d like to add to your interview? It’s been wonderful, and I just wondered, did we miss anything that you would’ve liked to share? Ken Slate: Just been great workin’ here, pretty much. It’s, um – after you’ve been here a while, you – the, there’s waves of “we’re gonna do this” and another wave “we’re gonna do that” and then it’s dropped, and, and now the new wave is GMS, and how far they go with it we’ll find out. I think the place runs because of the people want to make the job better. I don’t think it runs because of anything management does. Everybody – Production’s got a problem, you go try to help’m with it if you can, and it ends up makin’ things better. I don’t think it’s a big secret. It’s mostly people workin’ together. Doug Rademacher: Well, thanks a lot, Ken. It’s been a pleasure interviewing you. Ken Slate: You’re welcome. [papers rustling] Doreen Howard: Thank you. Cheryl McQuaid: Thank you, Ken. [recorder clicking] /rt