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Thea King and Pamela Weston:
The English Clarinet Playing Tradition
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Andrea L . Cheeseman

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THEA KING AND PAMELA WESTON:
THE ENGLISH CLARINET PLAYING TRADITION
OF THE TWENTIETH CENTURY

BY

Andrea L . Cheeseman

A.EKXEHEENT
Submitted to
Michigan State University

in partial fulfillment of the requirements
for the degree of

DOCTOR OF MUSICAL ARTS
School of Music

2001

Abstract

THEA KING AND PAMELA WESTON:
THE ENGLISH CLARINET PLAYING TRADITION
OF THE TWENTIETH CENTURY

BY

Andrea L. Cheeseman

During the twentieth century, many English clarinetists
achieved international recognition. Two important players of
the second half of the century who have made numerous
contributions to clarinet literature and scholarly study are
Thea King and Pamela Weston. King has led a varied career as
a teacher and freelance musician, performing as a soloist and
as a member of chamber orchestras and ensembles. She is best
known for her recordings, many of which are works by English
composers and were not previously recorded. A great number of
these compositions were dedicated to King’s late husband
Frederick Thurston, an important English clarinetist of the
first half of the century. Weston, as the premiere scholar of
the instrument, has written many important books and journal
articles as well as edited clarinet works. She was also
active as a teacher and freelance musician.

As well as detailing the accomplishments of King and
Weston, this paper contains information on English
clarinetists of the first half of the twentieth century and
those players who are important today. Also discussed are
women's musical activities in England as well as the typical
career of a freelance musician. Appendixes are included,
containing transcriptions of interviews taken with King and
weston, a complete discography of compositions King has

recorded, a list of King's publications and a bibliography of

works that Weston has written and edited.

Copyright by
ANDREA L . CHEESEMAN
2001

This paper is dedicated
to my family
for their years of constant support

Acknowledgements

I would like to thank Dr. Elsa Ludewig-Verdehr for her years
of guidance and help on this project. I am also grateful for
the assistance of the members of my doctoral committee: Dr.

Anna Celenza, Dr. Charles Ruggiero and Dr. Frederick Tims.

Vi

Introduction

Chapter 1:

Chapter 2:
Chapter 3:
Chapter 4:

Appendix A:

Appendix B:

Appendix C:
Appendix D:
Appendix E:

Bibliography

Table of Contents

A Brief Overview of English
Clarinetists of the Twentieth Century

Thea King
Pamela Weston
English Clarinetists of Today

Transcription of Interview
with Thea King

Transcription of Interview
with Pamela Weston

Discography: Thea King
Publications List: Thea King

Publications List: Pamela Weston

vii

20
46
75
79

147

207
216
217
221

Introduction

The English clarinetists Thea King and Pamela Weston are
internationally known for their vast contributions to
clarinet playing. Both women have been influential in the
development and promotion of the instrument. In addition to
teaching and playing in chamber orchestras and ensembles,
King has recorded a great number of clarinet works, many of
which were by English composers and were not previously
recorded. weston, as the premier scholar of the instrument,
has written numerous books and journal articles and has also
edited clarinet works.

King and Weston, contemporaries of one another, are part
of a rich history of English clarinet playing that developed
largely in the twentieth century. They have first-hand
knowledge of many important English players as well as
composers who have written for the instrument. Both women are
respectful of the English clarinet tradition and cite one of
the most significant English clarinetists, Frederick
Thurston, as a main source of influence. As they are both
still active, they are aware of the English style of clarinet
playing today and have opinions about its future.

As well as detailing the careers of each woman, this
paper will discuss the ways in which their lives have been
typical of English musicians in the second half of the
twentieth century. Although King and weston have specialized
in different areas, they had comparable educations and
developed their careers when women became more active in the
music profession in England. They have also led somewhat

similar careers as freelance musicians.

In the summer of 2000, I traveled to England and
conducted extensive interviews with each woman, both of whom
were eager to speak of their experiences. The transcripts of
these interviews, found in Appendixes A and B, will give the
reader a fuller understanding of the personalities and
interests of King and Weston. Also at the end of this
document is a discography, listing the pieces King has
recorded and a list of the music she has edited. (Appendixes
C and D) A publication list of the works that Weston has
written and edited is included as well. (Appendix E)

Clarinetists from England have made significant
contributions in the development of the clarinet repertoire.
Unfortunately, many people are not familiar with these
players or with the wealth of English clarinet literature. It
is hoped that through this paper an interest in English
clarinet playing, and specifically in the accomplishments of

Thea King and Pamela Weston, will be sparked.

Chapter One

A Brief Overview of English Clarinetists
of the Twentieth Century

In the twentieth century, many prominent clarinetists
established a rich tradition of clarinet playing in England.
Active in the areas of performance, teaching, broadcasting
and scholarly study, they have received international
recognition for their contributions and have done much to
promote their country's music. Many of these clarinetists
have had strong connections with composers and have thus
enriched the clarinet repertoire with the pieces that have
been dedicated to them.

Prior to the twentieth century, there were several
notable English clarinetists. Among them were the brothers
John and William Mahon, Thomas Lindsay Willman, Henry Lazarus
and Julian Egerton. Even though they are significant to the
history of English clarinet playing, the instrument was not
popular in the country at the end of the nineteenth century.
This can be attributed to several factors. At the turn of the
century, there were few living clarinetists who were as
well-known as Henry Lazarus, who had died in 1895. Also at
this time, the clarinet pieces typically played were of a
lighter nature. According to Pamela Weston, compositions that
were performed in the late nineteenth century were “all sorts
of occasional pieces. [There was] never a decent sonata or
concerto, really basically until Mfihlfeld came over."1

The German clarinetist Richard Mfihlfeld (1856-1907) was

important in renewing interest in the clarinet in England. At

 

1 Pamela Weston, interview by author: Hythe, England, 27 July 2000.

the end of the nineteenth century, he actively toured and
came to England several times to give concerts in London and
other cities. Besides inspiring many with his performances,
he introduced new literature, the most important of which
were the compositions written for him by Johannes Brahms in
the 18903: Trio in A minor, Op. 114; Quintet in B minor, Op.
115; Sonata in F minor, Op. 120, no. 1 and Sonata in Eb
Major, Op. 120, no. 2.

One of the first significant English clarinetists of the
twentieth century was Charles Draper (1869-1952) who studied
at the Royal College of Music with Lazarus and Egerton. It
was largely because of his activities that the instrument
became more popular in the 19203. Draper heard the London
performances of Mfihlfeld and was one of the first
clarinetists to perform Brahms' works. As the scholar Pamela
weston explains:

His entry into the concert world coincided with the
introduction into England of Brahms’ compositions for the
clarinet, and the warmth and romanticism of them were so
admirably suited to his playing that his name became
especially connected with them.2

In 1904, Draper gave the premier performance of Sir
Charles Stanford’s Clarinet Cbncerto, Op. 80. Stanford later
dedicated his Sonata, Op. 129 to both Draper and an amateur
clarinetist, Oscar Street. Works were also dedicated to
Draper by Francisco Gomez, Sir Arthur Bliss, Harold Samuel,
Joseph Holbrooke and Charles Lloyd. Draper recorded a number
of important masterworks including chamber music by Ludwig

van Beethoven, Franz Schubert, W. A. Mozart and Johannes

 

2 Pamela Weston, Clarinet Virtuosi of the Past. (London: Hale, 1971;
reprint, London: Fentone 1976, 1982, 1986, 1994), 265 (page citations
are to the 1994 reprint edition).

Brahms. Occasionally, Draper played principal in the London
Symphony Orchestra and was a member other ensembles,
including the Crystal Palace Orchestra, Queen Victoria's
private band, and the Leeds Orchestra.

From 1895 to 1940, Draper was a professor at the
Guildhall School of Music and concurrently held positions at
the Royal College of Music and the Trinity College of Music.
At the Royal College, he taught Frederick Thurston who would
become one of the most influential English clarinetists.

Unlike other countries, England never has had a firm
“school" of clarinet playing. In his book The Clarinet, Jack
Brymer discusses at length the various national schools.
Concerning the English style of playing, Brymer states: ”If
the English school of clarinet playing has a feature, it is
that in fact it has no recognizable set pattern to which all
are expected to conform."3 Stephen Trier similarly states, ”It
has always seemed to me that there are as many 'schools' as
there are players. English wind players have for many years
been able to be much more individualistic than those
elsewhere."‘

There were, however, two prominent styles established by
the middle of the twentieth century. Based upon the playing
of Frederick Thurston and Reginald Kell, the two approaches
to clarinet performance were distinctly different. These men

were contemporaries, and at the height of their careers (in

 

’ Jack Brymer, The Clarinet, Yehudi Menuhin Music Guides, (New York:
Schirmer Books, 1976), 156.

‘ Stephen Trier, Introduction to “The Legacies of Two English
Clarinetists: Frederick Thurston and Reginald Kell” ClarinetNetwork 1,
no. 1 (1982): 5.

the mid-19405) there were essentially no other players who

matched their abilities. The followers and students of both
clarinetists were rivals. “If you were a Thurston pupil the
playing of Kell was anathema — and vice versa!"5

Frederick ”Jack" Thurston was born in 1901 in Lichfield,
England. His father, a military bandsman, was a clarinetist
and gave Thurston his first lessons on the instrument. A
gifted young player, Thurston first performed in a solo
appearance at the age of eight. As a student of Charles
Draper at the Royal College of Music, he performed the
Stanford’s Clarinet Concerto, Op. 80 for a Patrons' Fund
concert with the composer in the audience. Stanford was quite
impressed with Thurston's playing and subsequently dedicated
the piece to him. The concerto was previously dedicated to
Mfihlfeld, but this was retracted since Mfihlfeld never
performed the work.

Thurston was important because of his vast amount of
performing as an orchestral player and as a soloist. When the
BBC Symphony Orchestra was formed in 1930, Thurston was
appointed as principal clarinetist. He performed with this
orchestra until 1946, when he left to dedicate more time to
solo performances and to play in the Philharmonia Orchestra.

Many contemporary English composers were commissioned to
write for the BBC. They would often come to rehearsals and
afterwards would spend time with the orchestra members in
pubs. Thurston became socially acquainted with them and
inspired many to write pieces for him. Thea King states,

“Jack’s personality was so striking both in and out of the

 

5 Ibid, 5.

orchestra that it was not surprising that many of these
composers felt moved to write for the clarinet."6 Listed below
are pieces that were written for him, many of which have

become a part of the standard repertoire:

Malcom Arnold Clarinet Concerto No. 1, Op. 20

Gerald Finzi Concerto for Clarinet and String Orchestra
Herbert Howells Sonata for Clarinet and Piano

John Ireland Fantasy Sonata

Gordon Jacob Quintet for Clarinet and Strings

Elizabeth Maconchy' Concerto No. 1

Alan Rawsthorne Concerto for Clarinet and String Orchestra

Quartet for Clarinet and Strings

It is noteworthy that Thurston did not commission any of the
works. ”[Commissioning] wasn't ever the done thing really.
Certainly, Thurston never had the money to do that or was
never arrogant enough to think that he was important enough
to have anything [written for him].”7

Although Thurston frequently broadcast recitals for the
BBC Radio, he unfortunately did not record very much. He
disliked the process and did not record any of the pieces
that were written for him. Among the few he did produce are:
Arthur Bliss' Quintet for Clarinet and String Quartet (with
the Griller Quartet), W. A. Mozart's Trio, K. 498 (with
Rebecca Clarke and Kathleen Long) and Alan Frank's Suite for
TWO Clarinets (with Ralph Clarke, second clarinet of the BBC
Symphony Orchestra).

Besides premiering the works written for him, Thurston

also gave the first performances in England of major clarinet

 

° Thea King, ”The Legacies of Two English Clarinetists: Frederick
Thurston," ClarinetNetwork 1, no. 1 (1982): 6.

7

Thea King, interview by author: London, England, 23 July 2000.

literature, introducing many important works to the country.

They include:

Malcom Arnold Sonatina for Clarinet and Piano. Op. 29
Arnold Bax Sonata for Clarinet and Piano

Arthur Bliss Quintet for Clarinet and String Quartet
Aaron Copland Concerto for Clarinet and String Orchestra
Claude Debussy Premiere Rhapsody

Iain Hamilton Concerto for Clarinet and Orchestra

Paul Hindemith Concerto for Clarinet and Orchestra

Darius Milhaud Concerto for Clarinet and Orchestra

Carl Nielsen Concerto for Clarinet and Orchestra, Op. 57

From 1930 (the same year he joined the BBC Symphony
Orchestra) to 1953, Thurston taught at the Royal College of
Music. He was an inspiring teacher, and with his solo and
orchestral performing, he served as a model for his students.
As Thea King explains: ”The natural truth in his playing was
an ideal feature for young players to emulate and [it] served
as a foundation upon which [his students] built their own
styles.”a Many of Thurston’s students have been highly
successful. Among them are: Thea King (who became his wife in
1953), Pamela Weston, John McCaw, Stephen Trier, Colin
Bradbury and Gervase de Peyer.

Former students of Thurston have described his strengths
and weaknesses as a teacher. Stephen Trier, a student of
Thurston’s in the 19403, states:

He was totally instinctive and intuitive as a teacher
and as a player. He exuded music from every pore. As a
clarinet teacher he lacked the ability, and even the
interest, to sort out or explain technical problems.
When it came to implanting musical standards, however,
he had no equal."9

 

° Thea King, ClarinetNetwork: 6.

’ Trier, 5.

Pamela weston echoes this opinion. She states that he was ”a
wonderful teacher as far as inspiring you and making you do
it. If I had a technical problem, he wasn’t good because he
was a natural player."10 She also has noted that ”he taught
more by example than by rule."“

Despite his apparent weakness in teaching technique, he
wrote several items pertaining to the subject. In 1939, with
Alan Frank, he wrote The Clarinet: a Comprehensive Tutor for
the Boehm Clarinet (Boosey & Hawkes, 1939). Another book,
Clarinet Technique, was published in 1956 by the Oxford
University Press posthumously, completed by Thea King. In
this book, chapters are devoted to topics such as breath
control, articulation and finger movement, scales and
arpeggios and transposition. Thurston also discussed tutors
(books containing exercises in areas of finger dexterity,
articulation, tone production, etc.) and how to practice
difficult passages in the chamber and orchestra repertoire.

Now in its fourth edition, (Oxford University Press,
1985) Clarinet Technique contains updated information. Alan
Hacker, an English clarinetist who studied with Reginald Kell
and is known for his playing of contemporary works as well as
those by Mozart, wrote a chapter concerning twentieth century
music. Several appendixes also have been added such as a list
of compositions written for the clarinet, compiled by
Georgina Dobrée, and information regarding preparation for
exams and public performances, written by John Davies.

Thurston was also connected with publication of the

 

” Weston, interview by author, 26 July 2000.

“ Weston, Clarinet Virtuosi of the Past, 273.

three volume set of Passage Studies (published by Boosey and
Hawkes) which contain arrangements of works by composers such
as J. S. Bach, George Frideric Handel and Béla Barték. With
Robert Fiske, Thurston chose the music for the books and
Fiske arranged the music for clarinet.

Thurston is important not only because he introduced a
significant amount of clarinet literature to England, but
also because of his ”pedigree”, having studied with Charles
Draper who was a student of Henry Lazarus.12 Though Thurston
lived to be only fifty-two, dying of lung cancer in 1953, he
was a well-known clarinetist throughout England. However,
today he is not a familiar name to many. This is perhaps
partly attributed to his lack of recording. Also, at the
height of his career, he was unable to tour abroad and
promote the works that were written for him because of World
War II.

Reginald Kell was the main influence of the second
school of English clarinet playing. Born in 1906 in York, he
received his first music instruction from his father, who was
a violinist, musical theater director and conductor of a
military band during World War I. From him, Kell learned to
play the violin and the clarinet.

In 1929, Kell became a member of the Royal Philharmonic
Orchestra and from 1930 to 1932, he studied at the Royal
Academy of Music with Haydn Draper, the nephew of Charles
Draper. Instead of continuing for the usual third year of
instruction at the Royal Academy, Kell left to become
principal clarinetist of the London Philharmonic Orchestra.

He was asked by director Sir Thomas Beecham to play in this

 

” Weston, interview by author, 26 July 2000.

10

ensemble as his tone with its use of vibrato matched that of
the principal oboist, Leon Goossens.

Quite itinerant throughout his career, Kell held many
positions for short periods of time. During the 19303, he was
employed with the Royal Opera Orchestra at Covent Gardens,
the London Symphony Orchestra and the Royal Philharmonic
Orchestra. From 1935 to 1939, he taught at the Royal Academy
of Music and in the 19403 he performed in the Liverpool
Philharmonic Orchestra and the Philharmonic Orchestra. By
this time, Kell had made several recordings. Among them are:
the Quintet, Op. 115 and Trio, Op. 114 by Johannes Brahms,
Phantasiestficke by Robert Schumann and the Clarinet Concerto,
K. 622, Quintet, K. 681 and Trio K. 489 by W. A. Mozart.

In 1948, Kell moved to the United States. While in
America, he continued performing and taught at the Aspen
Music Festival from 1951 to 1957. He also formed and toured
with The Kell Chamber Players (with a violinist, cellist and
pianist). He recorded solo and chamber music pieces during
his time in America including compositions by Béla Barték,
Claude Debussy and Igor Stravinsky.

Unfortunately, Kell never achieved the same amount of
recognition in the United States as he had in England. This
was largely due to his tone quality. According to Pamela
Weston, “[Americans] didn't like vibrato in clarinet playing
and that undoubtedly is why Reginald Kell didn't make a
success in America."13 Kell stayed in America until 1958.

From 1958 to 1959, the year he retired from performing,

Kell once again taught at the Royal Academy. Weston states

 

‘3 Ibid.

11

that when he returned from America, the style of playing
using vibrato was no longer prominent in England and he did
not regain his place as a top performer.“

In addition to performing, Kell edited music and
published method books (books containing similar exercises as
tutors). His publications include The Kell Method for
Clarinet, Books 1 and 2 (Boosey & Hawkes, 1968), 30
Interpretative Studies for the Clarinet (International Music
Company, 1958), Clarinet Staccato from the Beginning (Boosey
& Hawkes) and 17 Staccato Studies for Clarinet (International
Music Company, 1958). He also edited works by Weber (for
International Music Company) and did transcriptions of music
by George Frideric Handel, Arcangelo Corelli and George
Benjamin.

From 1959 to 1966, Kell was associated with Boosey &
Hawkes and C. Bruno & Son in New York and gave clinics and
master classes throughout England, Canada and the United
States. Kell retired from all musical activities in 1966. In
his retirement, he continued to move frequently, living in
various areas in the United States. He and his family moved
back to England for four years (1971-1975), but returned to
the United States to live near his grandchildren in Kentucky.
Kell died of pneumonia in 1981.

Thurston's and Kell's styles of playing were remarkably
different. Thea King describes Thurston’s style as:

adirect and uncomplicated, dynamic and emotionally
powerful. He played with a strong steady tone without
vibrato which was also capable of fine nuance. Reverence
for the composer and a constant quest to serve the

 

" Weston, interview by author, 27 July 2000.

12

composer's intentions were the keynote of his style.15

Pamela Weston characterizes his tone as “a beautiful, firm
sound which was capable of filling the Albert Hall, so clear
was it."16 She also states that he had "a wonderful sense of
rhythm and yet infinitely flexible phrasing."17

It was largely in the area of tone quality that
Thurston's and Kell’s playing differed. While Thurston played
with a straight tone, Kell used vibrato to a great extent.
Kell was influenced by the singers of the Royal Opera House
in Covent Garden. On his use of vibrato, Kell remarked that
it was senseless ”to sit there with my straight sound while
the singers used the full spectrum of tonal timbre and

[(18

intensity. He also employed vibrato to better match the

tone of the oboes, flutes and bassoons.
Weston states that Kell's playing was reflective of his
personality:

Kell was a very wonderful and generous man. In a sense,
he played in a generous way.mIt's often flamboyant and
full of character. I think that even Thea [King] and
other Thurston players would say that it is very
flamboyant and strikingly different, but it seems to be
in very good taste because it was genuine and so
heartfelt. I think he was a very good musician.”

With Kell moving to the United States in 1948 and

Thurston's death in 1953, the influences of two styles of

 

” Thea King, ClarinetNetwork, 6.
” Pamela Weston, Clarinet Virtuosi of the Past, 272.
” Ibid.

" Rosemary Curtin, “The Legacies of Two English Clarinetists: Reginald
Kell," ClarinetNetwork 1, no. 1 (1982): 8.

" Weston, interview by author, 27 July 2000.

13

playing were disrupted. As a result, clarinetists began
developing individualistic styles. King believes that there
was a great deal of experimentation in tone partly due to the
influence of clarinet players who also played the saxophone.
”It's the imitators of that style, I think, which have lost
the central vibrance of the note and substituted a rather,
what we call, 'honk.'"” Weston agrees that, in general, there
was no settled English tone:

It wasn't stabilized until perhaps the last thirty
years, about the 19703. People were sort of playing how
they wanted to; they didn’t know if they wanted to go
[in the direction of Kell or Thurston]."21

She felt, however, more people were tending towards the
direction of Kell's style using vibrato.22

More recently, clarinetists throughout the world have
developed more homogeneous tone qualities. As players have
greater access to recordings and have more opportunities to
hear clarinetists of all nationalities, it is a natural
result that playing styles will blend. Younger players have
also come into more contact with foreign players through
international youth orchestras. Thea King believes that in
England there is ”a return to a more normal, purer sound
because a lot of people are meeting up with continentals now
in these youth orchestras."23

Weston agrees that clarinetists everywhere have begun to

sound alike. "I think that, unfortunately, things might be

 

” King, interview by author.
“ Weston, interview by author, 27 July 2000.
“ Ibid.

" King, interview by author.

14

all 'combined' over the world."“ She also believes that
instrumental tone is partially determined by the language of
the player: the shape of the oral cavity differs for each
language and is transferred to the clarinet embouchure.
Although she ultimately feels that a clarinetist's tone is
the result of a concept of an ideal sound, it is language
that ”probably would stop the complete integration."25

One of the most important clarinetists to follow
Thurston and Kell is Jack Brymer (b. 1915) who combined the
styles of Thurston and Kell. He has said, “Somewhere between
the two, there came the reality that I tried to follow.“6
Although he admired Thurston's playing, Brymer had used
vibrato since he was ten years old. According to English
clarinetist David Campbell, Brymer became the “yardstick" for
English clarinet playing standards. Campbell describes
Brymer's playing as having a vocal quality with the use of a
warm vibrato that was only used when appropriate.“

Brymer received little formal musical training and
attended the London University to become a teacher of
physical education, music and English. His beginning in the
musical profession was a result of an invitation to join the
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra by its conductor, Sir Thomas

Beecham, who had heard of Brymer’s clarinet playing. Brymer

was in this ensemble from 1947 to 1963 and was also a member

 

“ Weston, interview by author, 27 July 2000.
" Ibid.

" ”Musical Dynasties," BBC Radio 4 broadcast with Jane Glover, David
Campbell, Pamela Weston and Jack Brymer, 23 April 2000.

" Ibid.

15

of the BBC Symphony (1963-71) and the London Symphony (1971-
1986) Orchestras. He has performed in chamber ensembles such
as the London Wind Soloists, the Prometheus Ensemble and the
Robles Ensemble.

In addition to performing, Brymer taught at the Royal
Academy of Music, the Royal Military School of Music and the
Guildhall School of Music. He has written several books, two
of which discuss his experiences as an orchestral musician
and the colleagues he has worked with: From Where I Sit
(Cassell Ltd., 1979) and In the Orchestra (Hutchinson, 1987).
His book On the Clarinet (Schirmer Books, 1976) focuses on
various aspects of clarinet playing, with topics ranging from
the instrument's history, acoustics and national schools of
playing to teaching. Brymer also broadcasted regularly,
giving talks on various subjects for programs such as ”Mainly
for Pleasure“, ”Brymer's Browsings" and ”From where I Sit".
Through these broadcasts, Brymer became a household name in
England.

There are many prominent players in the generation of
English clarinetists following Thurston and Kell. Among them
is Gervase de Peyer (b. 1926), who attended the Royal College
of Music from 1944 to 1946, studying with Thurston. After
serving for the National Service in the Marine Band, he
returned to the College in 1948 for two years. He also
studied occasionally in Paris with Louis Cahuzac. Although he
was a student of Thurston’s, de Peyer uses vibrato.

De Peyer has led an active career that began to flourish
around the time of Thurston's death, and in some ways, he
acquired the work that would have been offered to Thurston.

He has played with the London Chamber Orchestra, London Wind

16

Players, London Mozart Players and the Goldsbrough Orchestra
which became the English Chamber Orchestra. He played with
Thea King and Pamela Weston many times in these ensembles.
Weston states, “Very often I was playing second to [Thea
King]. Sometimes it was Gervase de Peyer. Sometimes I was
engaged as first; sometimes he was. It was a sort of friendly
rivalry!"28 He also played principal in the London Symphony
Orchestra from 1955 to 1972.

Known also as a chamber musician, de Peyer was the
founding clarinetist of the Melos Ensemble and played with
the group from 1950 to 1974. He joined the Lincoln Center
Chamber Music Society in 1969 and moved to the United States.
He stayed with the ensemble until 1989. De Peyer has since
returned to England.

Highly regarded for his performing, many compositions
were written for him. Among these works are quintets by
Arnold Cooke and Elizabeth Maconchy as well as Thea
Musgrave's Concerto for Clarinet and Orchestra of 1969. De
Peyer is one of the most recorded clarinetists, having
recorded much solo literature and chamber music, often with
the Melos Ensemble. King states, “He made many recordings,
when other people had not quite gotten around to clarinet
solo music.mHe had plenty of brilliance, nerve and conviction
about what he did. And, it was really terrific stuff.”29 As
well as his performing activities, de Peyer taught at the
Royal Academy of Music. In the 19703, he began conducting and
has led such ensembles as the London Symphony Orchestra, the

 

" Weston, interview by author, 27 July 2000.

" King, interview by author, 23 July 2000.

17

London Mozart Players and the Haydn Orchestra.

In this generation of players, there are several
important English women clarinetists. After World War II,
women began to be more prominent in the music profession.
Georgina Dobrée (b. 1930) has been active in performing and
recording music of the mid-eighteenth century. Knowledgeable
about the basset horn, she has often presented lectures on
the subject. Dobrée has edited numerous works including those
by Franz Krommer, Johann Baptist Vanhal and Jean Xavier
Lefevre. She has recorded often and has collaborated with
Thea King, playing basset horn on recordings of Felix
Mendelssohn's two Concertpieces for Clarinet and Basset Hern,
Op. 113 and 114 (Hyperion: CDD22017).

Although their careers developed somewhat later, Janet
Hilton (b. 1945) and Victoria Soames are two other
significant women clarinetists. Hilton currently teaches at
the Royal College of Music. She has recorded numerous pieces
and has been a member of the Welsh National Opera Orchestra,
the Scottish Orchestra and the Kent Opera Orchestra and has
performed as a soloist at major festivals including those of
Aldeburgh, Bath, Cheltenham and the BBC Promenade Concerts.
She also plays at the Fontana Festival in Shelbyville,
Michigan every summer.

Victoria Soames is known largely for her recording. For
her brother's company, Clarinet Classics (founded in 1993),
she has recorded a number of works from a variety of
composers and time periods, including works by English

composers, Thea Musgrave, Aaron Copland and Johannes Brahms.30

 

” A list of works that Victoria Soames has recorded for Clarinet
Classics can be found on the label's internet web site:
http://www.clarinetclassics.com.

18

Thea King and Pamela weston are among these important
women clarinetists, and both are aware of the tradition of
English clarinet playing set before them and have done much

to continue its richness. Their activities will be documented

at great length in the following chapters.

19

Chapter Two

Thea King

Widely recognized for her extensive recording,
performing and teaching, the English clarinetist Dame Thea
King is one of the most significant clarinetists of the last
half of the twentieth century. Although she did not begin
playing the clarinet until her late teens, King quickly
gathered skill and experience on the instrument, and soon
became a well-known freelance clarinetist. A most important
musician in the history of English clarinet playing and a
great advocate of English music, she has recorded numerous
compositions by English composers as well as works which were
connected to Frederick Thurston.

King was born on December 26, 1925 in Hitchin,
Hertfordshire. Her family had lived in Indianapolis, Indiana
in the 18603 when her German grandfather, a furniture
designer and carpenter, worked for his brother, helping to
choose wood for his furniture factory. Early in the twentieth
century, her family emigrated to England where they began a
branch of the factory in London.

It was through her mother's efforts that King became
involved in music. Her mother, one of eleven children, was
given piano lessons at an early age and became a skilled
pianist. King's mother had no career other than working as a
secretary for a short period. Although not a teacher, she
gave King and her sister piano lessons when King was four or
five as well as played duets with them. Thus, King learned to
read music before beginning school.

From 1939 to 1943, King attended a boarding school for

20

girls in Bedford, a city north of London in central England,
where she studied French and mathematics as well as music.
Although music was not emphasized as part of the education,
King took her musical study seriously. While most of the
other students were studying to attend universities, King
practiced piano intensively, preparing to attend a music
school upon graduation.

At an early age, King knew that she wished to make a
living as a musician.

At seventeen,mI just dug my heels in and said, 'No, I
don't want to be an accountant.’ My mother wanted me to
be an accountant or in the civil service, something
really safe so that I‘d have a pension [get married and
have children]. But, [my parent and teachers] realized
that it was all I really wanted to do.31

While a student at Bedford, King learned to play the
recorder, quite a popular instrument at that time. Although
there were no wind instruments in the school orchestra, the
director wished to improve the ensemble by adding them.
Knowing King played the recorder, the director asked if she
would like to play a “proper instrument" and borrowed a
simple-system clarinet (a forerunner of the now common Boehm
system, whose fingerings were similar to that of the German
Oehler system) from a colleague for King to use.

Although she still concentrated on the piano, King began
to study clarinet with Ralph Clarke, the second clarinetist
of the BBC Symphony Orchestra, who found a Boehm system
instrument for her. Clarke was in Bedford because the BBC
Orchestra had been relocated to the city during WOrld War II.
Normally based in London, the Orchestra was evacuated to

Bristol during World War II, but then moved to Bedford, after

 

“ Thea King, interview by author: London, England, 23 July 2000.

21

Bristol was badly bombed. The Orchestra was fortunate in that
it was one of only a few able to continue without having its
members called to serve in the war.

The Orchestra was quite active in Bedford. Some members
gave benefit concerts of chamber music at the high school for
the Red Cross, and it was at one of these concerts that King
first heard the clarinet as a featured instrument. It was
also her first encounter with the playing of Frederick "Jack"
Thurston, principal clarinetist of the BBC Symphony
Orchestra, who was later to become a particularly important
and influential person in her life.

Several children of the BBC Orchestra members attended
the same high school as King, including Thurston's daughter,
Elizabeth. She was approximately King's age and also played
clarinet in the school orchestra. ”They made a good pair;
Elizabeth getting the notes beautifully but not the rhythm
and Thea getting the rhythm but not always the notes."32

After completing high school, King received a
scholarship to study at the Royal College of Music in London
which she attended from 1943 to 1947. King continued to live
in her hometown of Hitchin, traveling by train four or five
times a week to the Royal College. Since it was a four-hour
round trip to London, King feels that she lost much valuable
practice time on these uncomfortable unheated and unlit
trains.

While at the Royal College, piano was her first-study
instrument. (The instrument in which a student majored was

referred to as a ”first study.") Since students were also

 

" Pamela Weston, "Thea King," Clarinet Virtuosi of Today (Hertfordshire:
Egon Publishers Ltd., 1989), 158.

22

required to play a second-study, or secondary, instrument,
King chose the clarinet. Her piano teacher was Arthur
Alexander, and her clarinet instructor was initially Douglas
Matthews. Even though the clarinet was not her main
instrument, she was given the opportunity to play for
Thurston, also a professor at the Royal College, and soon
began taking lessons only from him.

Thurston was most accommodating in his teaching. He had
been a professor at the Royal College since 1930 and wished
to continue during the war because it was the only teaching
appointment he had. Thurston usually came to the College
every two weeks. It is approximately fifty miles from London
to Bedford, where he was with the BBC Orchestra, and travel
was difficult at that time because of the war. ”Everything
was sort of makeshift during the war. Many of the men had
gone; so many of the college professors had to join umehose
[of the BBC Orchestra] did —-one or two of them — keep their
teaching up at Royal College."33

Thurston's students at the College were allowed to
observe each other’s lessons. He encouraged this since he was
unable to come to the College every week, and in this way, he
hoped the students would not feel deprived. King's lessons
with Thurston were sporadic as the clarinet was not her main
instrument, and at the time playing the piano was more
important to her. She did sometimes go to his home in Bedford
for lessons since Hitchin was nearby. On some of these
occasions Thurston would arrange for her to attend concerts

of the BBC Orchestra in Bedford. She greatly enjoyed these

 

” King, interview by author.

23

performances as did the community. ”It was a real thrill for
Bedford to hear these world class musicians playing all of
these top works.”“ Also, for many in this city, it was their
first opportunity to hear performances of such a high
caliber.

It was King's original intent to become an accompanist.
She played for many of the clarinet students at the College
and even accompanied Thurston on some of his recitals.

I sat around all the time, longing to be asked to play
the piano because —-I [had] learned all these [clarinet]
pieces from the piano perspective first, you see. And
anyway, I was very much a beginner on the clarinet.35

During the fourth year of her study at the Royal
College, King made the clarinet an equal first-study with
piano. She wished to do this to gain more experience playing
in an orchestral setting. Many servicemen were returning from
the war and were being incorporated back into the schools.
Thus, a current student had to present a strong argument for
remaining a fourth year at the College since it was usual to
study only for three years.

By 1947, musical activity was beginning to renew after
the war and orchestras began to perform regularly again. King
left the Royal College that year, intending to perform on
both piano and clarinet. ”I tried to earn a living playing
bothmand for some reason the clarinet seemed to produce more
opportunities than the piano in spite of my being femalemI

(’36

just gradually changed over.

 

“ Ibid.

” Ibid.

“ Jack Snavely, “Interview with Thea King," The Clarinet 14, no. 3
(Spring 1987): 37.

24

Around the time of World War II, women began to hold
more orchestral positions in England. However, it should be
noted that before the war, some women were established
orchestral players. Although female string players were more
commonly found, there were several women in wind sections.
Among these was Helen Gaskell who played English horn in the
BBC Symphony Orchestra from 1932 to 1966. There were other
women oboists who were students of Leon Goossens.37

While men were in the service, there were many positions
available, giving women valuable experience in orchestral
settings. After the war, women continued to be more prominent
as additional positions became available in the orchestras
that were being revived. “We'd had more experience in my
time, we females. This was really the beginning of female
wind playing for England. The war opened up doors for us."38

Still, there were fewer female musicians in orchestras
than males, especially in the wind sections. King feels that
with the beginnings of youth orchestras things began to
change further. In 1948, the National Youth Orchestra was
formed in England. In orchestras such as this, female and
male musicians sat next to one another in all sections.
Later, when some of these players became professionals, they
once again played together in ensembles and less
consideration was made of the sex of the players.

As she held orchestral positions throughout her life,
King sometimes felt guilty that she was depriving men of jobs

since they “needed" these positions in order to support their

 

" Thea King, letter to author, 6 March 2001.

" King, interview by author.

25

families. She was also encouraged by Thurston to not compete
for a top position within the clarinet section if there were
seating options. Reflecting on the past, King thinks she ”may
well have imagined that the male element was more of an enemy
than it really was."39

King has led a career that is in many ways typical of
English musicians. Rather than holding a permanent position,
she has made a living as a freelance musician by performing
as a soloist, chamber musician and orchestral player as well
as by recording, teaching and music editing. With her success
in all areas, King has had a very rich and rewarding career
and has influenced clarinetists worldwide.

Earning a living as a freelance musician in England is
difficult since most of the teaching and playing positions
are not under contract. Unlike the United States, wind
professors of English music schools are freelance musicians
whose livelihoods are earned by playing in numerous
orchestras. Thus, King could never rely on a having a
fulltime position and could not afford to turn down job
offers. ”It’s just a game of chance. That's all it islmIt's
never saying 'no' to something because you think: Oh dear,
no. I’m not sure. I can’t do that. I don't want to do that.“0

While the musicians of larger orchestras (for example:
the Birmingham Symphony, the Hallé Symphony in Manchester and
the four BBC Orchestras located in Scotland, Manchester,
Wales and London) have tenure, players of orchestras and

chamber orchestras do not have salaried positions (i.e. with

 

” Thea King, letter to author, 6 March 2001.

“ King, interview by author.

26

regular weekly or monthly wages). Instead, there are
“permanent" positions (such as in the English Chamber
Orchestra) where the performers are paid per concert only. It
is conceivable that a musician might not be invited to
perform again with an orchestra even after playing many years
with the ensemble. King states:

There was no such thing as a contract, just a sort of
gentleman's agreement that I would be there. Perhaps
next week, I wouldn't be there if they decided they had
enough of me and found somebody they liked better, but I
was lucky.‘1

Often, the playing conditions that orchestra players
experience are less than ideal. They frequently perform in
cold, drafty buildings:

The halls are not comfortable. Mostly, we play in
ridiculously low temperatures such as whilst in a
church. Our union laws are not always invoked. Because
we don't have security, players tend to put up with
anything. If there's bad lighting, you rarely complain.
Ridiculous journeys. We had to fly the Atlantic one day

and rehearse in New York when we got there.‘2

King once gave a performance of the Mozart Concerto in the
westminster Cathedral where the temperature was 40 degrees
Fahrenheit.”

In order to obtain enough work to earn a living, a
freelance musician must have as many contacts as possible.
“Naturally, you try to keep your options open, try to keep as
many fires burning as you can -’to be known to as many

['64

fixers, orchestras and chamber groups as you can. There are

 

“ Ibid.
“ Ibid.
“ Snavely, 37.

“ Ibid.

27

times when several concert offers are for the same date. A
player might like to select the better situation, but of
course, this can result in not being asked to play again by
the spurned orchestra.

King has played with many orchestras throughout her
career, having deputized with the Royal Philharmonic, the
London Philharmonic and the London Symphony Orchestra. Under
the deputy system, common in the 19503 and 19603, a permanent
player suggested possible substitute musicians to the
orchestra conductor and manager for a specific concert in
which he or she could not perform. Today, the orchestra
manager has more control and players have difficulties being
released from concert engagements.”

One of the first orchestras in which King played was the
Sadlers Wells Opera and Ballet Orchestra. Around 1950, King
had met Eileen Tranmer, the principal clarinetist, who had
asked her to deputize while she competed in Russia as the
British WOmen’s Chess Champion. King and Tranmer then shared
the first position when the orchestra expanded in 1951. She
suggests that with this job she became a professional
clarinetist.“6

King played with the Sadlers Wells Orchestra only until
1952 because during that year, she married her teacher and
mentor, Frederick Thurston. At that time, it was “normal" for
a woman to stop working after marriage, and King ceased
playing in the orchestra, partly because of tradition and

partly because of her conservative upbringing.

 

“ Thea King, letter to author, 9 April 2001.

“ King, interview by author.

28

She thought, ”Ok, that's that. That's my career. I am.meant
to be a housewife.“7 Another reason she did not work steadily
was that Thurston was ill and she needed to care for him, As
did many at that time, he smoked heavily and, as a result,
had a lung removed. However, he was able to remain active
after the operation and frequently gave performances of
pieces that were written for him, as well as continuing to
play in the Philharmonia Orchestra. Because of Thurston's
performances, King was not completely absent from the
profession. “I was very happy to be in the background, trying
to support his musical activities, taking him to the halls,
helping him try new pieces, finding reeds."“ Though she did
not work seriously, she did occasionally deputize in
orchestras (sometimes playing second to Thurston) and she
accompanied his students on the piano.

In 1953, less than a year after their marriage, Thurston
died of lung cancer. During his illness, King had developed
an interest in health foods and for a time considered working
in that field rather than reviving her musical activities.
But through previous contacts and friends' recommendations,
she began to receive work in small orchestras and resumed her
musical involvement.

One of the first ensembles that King joined after
Thurston's death was the Portia Wind Ensemble. A member of
this group from 1955 to 1973, King feels that this was one of
the most important ensembles in which she participated. This

double wind quintet was founded by James verity, a violist

 

" Ibid.

“ Ibid.

29

whom she met while playing in the Boyd Neel Orchestra. Verity
wished to become a conductor and had noticed that there were
only a few women in orchestra wind sections. He asked various
women for recommendations for the group, and they recruited
their friends to join this ensemble.

Verity had numerous contacts in London and was
instrumental in securing session work for the players, such
as for television broadcasts. He promoted the group well,
arranging a concert to which he invited representatives from
the BBC. After hearing the group, the BBC invited Portia to
do radio broadcasts. The group also held a composition
contest for which thirty works were submitted. Through this
ensemble, many women received professional notice. When he
moved abroad in 1968, Portia continued but in smaller
groupings.

Although King was not been a regular member of one of
the large symphony orchestras in England, she gained
considerable experience playing in chamber orchestras.
Chamber orchestras increased in popularity after the war and
the formation of these groups was largely the result of past
colleagues gathering together to play music written for
larger chamber ensembles and to perform in small towns for
schools, colleges and music societies. Among the people with
whom King played were former peers from the Royal College,
including Colin Davis (who also studied with Thurston and
later became an internationally known conductor) as well as
Gervase de Peyer. “So, it was a kind of network of musicians
who were just looking for something to do, to play whilst

earning their living at any odd jobs.””

 

“ Ibid.

30

The English Chamber Orchestra (previously the
Goldsbrough Orchestra) became established in this manner, and
King performed with the group from 1957 to 1999. She was also
a member was the London Mozart Players, in which she played
principal from 1956 to 1984, having succeeded Gervase de
Peyer once he began playing in the London Symphony Orchestra.

King was a soloist with various chamber orchestras at
regional music festivals throughout England, such as those in
Manchester, Birmingham and Newcastle. She particularly
enjoyed playing with these smaller orchestras since they
frequently performed to audiences who had less exposure to
live orchestral performances.

When touring with chamber orchestras, King was often
asked to perform as a soloist. To help reduce travel costs,
chamber orchestras frequently used their own members to
perform.concerti rather than hiring guest performers. King
participated in tours with the English Chamber Orchestra to
many countries including Japan, South America, Russia,
Taiwan, Hong Kong, Australia and the United States as well as
all countries in western Europe. In her solo performances,
she often played the concerti of Gerald Finzi and Mozart.

King also performed in numerous chamber groups. From
1965 to 1976 she was a member of the vesuvius Ensemble, an
outgrowth of a Dartington Summer School chamber ensemble in
which she had collaborated with pianist Susan Bradshaw.
Although they played some works from the classical period,
Vesuvius gave many premieres of new works and largely
performed contemporary music, such as Arnold Schoenberg's
Pierrot Lunaire and Webern's arrangement of Schoenberg's

Chamber Symphony No. 1.

31

Other groups in which King performed include the Robles
Ensemble and the Melos Ensemble. The latter became
internationally known through its recordings and tours. She
joined the Melos Ensemble in 1974 when the founding
clarinetist, Gervase de Peyer, moved to the United States to
join the Lincoln Center Chamber Music Society. With the Melos
Ensemble, she played a variety of music for combinations of
three to ten players using strings, winds, piano and harp.
The Robles Ensemble, based on the instrumentation of Ravel’s
septet Introduction and Allegro, consisted of flute,
clarinet, string quartet and harp. The harpist, Marisa
Robles, was the featured performer.

A musician who King collaborated with many times and
found great inspiration from is the English composer Benjamin
Britten. At the Aldeburgh Festival, King played in a small
opera orchestra, performing operas of Britten, such as The
Rape of Lucretia and Albert Herring. With Britten conducting
this orchestra, she toured Russia in 1963. She also performed
with Britten in performances with the English Chamber
Orchestra and in numerous chamber ensembles with him playing
piano. With Britten and soprano Heather Harper, she also
recorded Franz Schubert's Der Hirt Auf dem Felsen, D. 965.

King also worked quite often with the violinist Yehudi
Menuhin, who founded the Bath Festival. As well as playing in
many orchestral concerts that he conducted, she performed
Béla Barték's Contrasts with him at Bath and at the Salle
Pleyel Paris. Also with him, she performed the Brahms and
Mozart quintets, Ludwig van Beethoven's Septet in Eb Major,
Op. 20, Franz Schubert’s Octet in F.Major, D. 803 as well as

the trio version of Igor Stravinsky's A Soldier’s Tale.

32

Although Menuhin did not participate, King toured Australia
with a pianist and string players from the Bath Festival
Orchestra in 1968.

A number of the chamber groups with which she performed
were not permanent ensembles but rather were assembled solely
for radio broadcast purposes by the BBC. King states:

Very often the BBC would actually arrange the groups. It
wasn’t that you had a group of chamber music friends and
you applied to do this. Again, it was a very much
grapevine thing where you were invited to play.50

Often producers from the BBC would attend various concerts to
hear players before hiring the musicians to participate in
broadcasts.

In the past, most broadcasting was done live with
audiences often in the studio. Because of this, specific
programs were formed so that the musicians played in more
than one piece to use resources efficiently. Today, the
program planning does not always revolve around the available
performers because much use is made of recordings.

Many of the broadcasts were regular programs which
occurred daily or weekly, and the music was chosen by the BBC
producers. ”There were wonderful programs with a large staff
of producers, many of whom were composers who had various
projects of music they wanted to do, often music by unusual
composers who they felt were neglected."51 The typical music
selection would, of course, change with the preferences of
the producers. King states:

One producer came in who was crazy about Schoenberg and
the twelve tone school. So, we had nothing but that for

 

5‘ Ibid .

33

awhile. So, I was engaged in playing all sorts of that:
Pierrot Lunaire, even without a voice, without a

conductor. [I also played] Schoenberg's Suite.52

Today, a broad range of musical styles is represented in the
broadcasts although it is, as King terms it, more
”user-friendly" so as to appeal to the general public.

According to King, she was involved in hundreds of radio
broadcasts, including orchestra and chamber music
performances. Many of her broadcasts were of solo appearances
with orchestras which were of pre-recorded concerts or live
performances in a studio or concert hall. In some ways, King
developed an interest in recording lesser-known works through
her performing for the BBC. "Various chamber groups that I
belonged to did contemporary, mainline and neglected stuff.
That was really the thing, I suppose, that triggered me into
wanting to record some of these pieces that I met through the
BBC. "5’

It is perhaps through her numerous recordings that King
is best-known. She never intentionally pursued a recording
career as such, but fit it into her schedule while
performing, touring and teaching. Having recorded over fifty
pieces, many of which were not previously available, she is
one of the most cataloged clarinetists, not only in England,
but throughout the world. (A complete discography of works
King has recorded with notes as to the special significance
of the compositions can be found in Appendix C.)

Other English women have been quite prominent in the

recording domain. In addition to King, these include: Janet

 

” Ibid.

” Ibid.

34

Hilton, Emma Johnson, Victoria Soames and Georgina Dobrée.
King partly attributes this to men's dominance in the
orchestral scene:

Mostly the men feel that earning [money] to support the
family comes before musical ambition, and they are
therefore very competitive and controlling, taking on as
much work as possible. This leaves little time for
developing solo repertoire, so possibly this has been
encouragement for the girls, who are generally less
busy, to try their luck in that field.“

The compositions that King recorded are in a variety of
mediums, including clarinet and piano works, chamber music
and concerti. Among her recorded concerti are those by Sir
Charles Stanford, Gerald Finzi and Louis Spohr. With Nicholas
Bucknell, King recorded the two double concerti of Franz
Tausch, an eighteenth century composer and one of the
clarinetists of the Mannheim School.

King recorded the Mozart Concerto three times. The last
occasion was in 1985, at which time she played the basset
clarinet. She wished to record the piece on this instrument
for which Mozart had written the concerto since, at that
time, few people had done so. Included on this album is the
Mozart Quintet, K. 581 on which she also played the basset
clarinet. Recalling the recording experience, King states:
"That's become one of Ted [Perry's] best sellers,
inexplicably because I had the flu and the instrument
cracked, and everything seemed wrong!"55

King recorded the three concerti of Bernhard Crusell
with the London Symphony Orchestra. In addition, she recorded
all three of Crusell’s quartets with the Allegri String

 

“ King, letter to author, 6 March 2001.

” King, interview by author.

35

Quartet as well as the Introduction and variations on a
Swedish Air, Op. 12 with the London Symphony Orchestra. While
Crusell is sometimes referred to as the ”Finnish weber," his
works were less well-known and performed. These recordings
fulfilled an important function in bringing his music to
light.

King also recorded a significant amount of chamber
music. In addition to the well-known piano and wind quintets
of Mozart and Beethoven, she has recorded the clarinet and
string quintets of Brahms and Mozart as well as those by
Robert Simpson, Andreas Romberg and Robert Fuchs. The latter
two were recorded with the Britten Quartet with whom King
also recorded an album of English clarinet and string
quintets, including those by Herbert Howells, Arnold Cooke,
Elizabeth Maconchy, Benjamin Frankel and Joseph Holbrooke.

As can be seen in the discography included in
Appendix C, many of King's recordings were previously
unrecorded. Among these premieres are Concertinos, no. 1 and
2 by Elizabeth Maconchy, Howard Ferguson's Feur Short Pieces,
William Hurlstone's Feur Characteristic Pieces and Franz
Reizenstein's Arabesques, Op. 47. Collaborating with Georgina
Dobrée, King produced the premiere recordings of orchestral
arrangements of the Mendelssohn Concertpieces, Op. 113 and
114 (Mendelssohn arranged Op. 113 and Carl Baermann arranged
Op. 114).

King's recordings are important for several reasons. Not
only are many premiere recordings, but also many are British
works which were not well-known and had been neglected. A
number of these were dedicated to her late husband, Frederick

Thurston.

36

Most of all this recording has been because I've felt it
was just criminal that nobody knew [these British works]
were there. A lot of the composers were still alive. [I]
just wanted those pieces to be heard, particularly
things that were in connection with Thurston. It was
such a shame that he hadn't lived long enough to really
be able to go around and play them to people which was
his whole idea, to show what had been written for the
clarinet and how lucky he was.56

Works written for Thurston and subsequently recorded by King
include: John Ireland’s Fantasy Sonata; Gerald Finzi’s
Concerto for Clarinet and String Orchestra, Op. 31; Howells'
Sonata for Clarinet and Piano; Alan Rawsthorne’s Concerto for
Clarinet and String Orchestra; Elizabeth Maconchy's,
Concertinos, no. 1 and 2; Malcom Arnold’s Clarinet Concerto
No. 1, Op. 20; and Gordon Jacob's Quintet for Clarinet and
Strings.

A most important person in her recording career was Ted
Perry. He had worked for several record companies (Saga and
Meridian) before founding Hyperion Records in 1980. King had
a unique relationship with Perry in that he allowed her to
choose the music that she wished to record. Like King, Perry
has an interest in promoting music of English composers and
has often produced music that was somewhat more obscure.
"Everything I suggested he took without a murmur although he
knew that they weren’t commercially viable at all."57 The only
recommendation that he made was to include the C. M. Weber
Concerto No. 2 in Eh.Major, Op. 74 on a disc because he felt
it beneficial to have a standard work to complement the
Crusell Concerto No. 2 in F.minor, Op. 5.

Before he founded Hyperion, King had worked with Perry

 

“ Ibid.

” Ibid.

37

several times. For a release on Saga, In Memoriam: Jehn
Ireland, a tribute recording to the late composer, she
recorded the Fantasy-Sonata for clarinet and piano. This was
originally written in 1943 for Thurston, and she had given
one of its first performances as a pianist. King played the
work on the clarinet for the composer as well. While Perry
worked for Meridian, she recorded the Louis Spohr Concerto
No. 4 as well as the Mozart Cbncerto, K. 622.

King was one of several people to encourage Perry to
start his own label. She had tapes of pieces she had
previously recorded which she offered to him to produce. His
first issue for Hyperion was her recording of the concerti of
Finzi and Stanford. King was quite familiar with both these
works as the Finzi had been written for Thurston and he had
often performed the Stanford.

King also recorded several compositions that were either
dedicated to her or commissioned by her. Because she liked
the style of his incidental music for television, she
commissioned Howard Blake's Concerto which she premiered in
1985. In 1980, Gordon Jacob wrote the Mini-Concerto after
hearing and enjoying her recording of his Quintet for
Clarinet and Strings. For a commission by the Cheltenham
International Contemporary Music Festival in 1962, Benjamin
Frankel wrote Quintet, Op. 28 in memory of Thurston and
dedicated the piece to both Thurston and King.

In addition to producing the first recordings of many
significant works, King has given the premiere performances
of a number of works by British composers. King commissioned
(with the aid of the British Arts Council) the Fantasia by
Elizabeth Maconchy. King gave the premiere of this piece with

38

pianist Paula Fan at the International Clarinet Congress in
Denver in 1980. Other works King premiered include: sonatas
for clarinet and piano by William Alwyn and Arnold Cooke;
Sextet for Clarinet, Bern and String Quartet by John Ireland;
Five Little Pieces by Elisabeth Lutyens; Suite for Clarinet
and Piano by Humphrey Searle; and Concertante for Oboe,
Clarinet and Orchestra by Priaulx Rainier.

Though busy as a performing and recording artist, King
has always maintained an active teaching schedule. Her first
experience as a clarinet instructor occurred after WOrld War
II when it became more common for wind instruments to be
taught in schools. Uncertain that she would ”make it” as a
professional pianist, King began teaching clarinet in the
schools to approximately twenty young students.

I used to get on buses and trains and go around London.
I would have three students at one [school], four at
another, one at another place. And when I finished [at
one school], I'd get on the train and go out teaching
again! I was not really earning anything, just ”peanuts"
as we say. So, I was just forced to pick up bits and
pieces.58

On Saturdays she taught in the junior department at the Royal
College of Music.

In 1961, King became a professor at the Royal College of
Music. The College had grown considerably since the war
years, and at one time there were as many as forty
first-study clarinet students as well as others who were
second-studies. (The large number of pupils may be attributed
to the increase in teaching which occurred in the schools
after the war.) King originally taught two or three students

and was one of four or five clarinet professors. Her number

 

5" Ibid.

39

of students eventually grew to approximately eighteen, and
gradually she had to decrease that number because of an
increase in performance obligations. In 1987, after
twenty-five years of teaching, she left the Royal College.

During the next year King joined the faculty of the
Guildhall School of Music where she still teaches today. She
now teaches two to three hours a week, largely post-grad
students and advanced students. She also coaches chamber
music ensembles. As it is not necessary for her to teach at
the school every week, she has been able to continue her
performing responsibilities as well.

King is often frustrated by the administrative aspect of
teaching which takes time away from the actual music making.
However, she enjoys working with her students and tries to
ensure that they receive complete educations and are not
deprived of the necessary experiences needed to succeed. “I
feel that's one of my chief functions as, now, I do really
very little teaching compared to the other [professors]. I
just want to get the students playing and learning more about

['59

music.

Partly to offer students more playing opportunities,
King and the other wind professors of the Guildhall School
began performance classes that occur once a term. During
these occasions, students can ”test" pieces they will play
for exams or auditions and become more comfortable when
performing. The classes were also originally begun because
the professors were not able to hear their students' yearly
exams. Due to a lack of performance space during exam week,

the exams were held in small classrooms with no room

 

’9 Ibid.

40

for an audience, including teachers. This problem has since
been corrected with the purchase by the school of a new
building with a suitable performance hall.

King stresses several things in her teaching. In
addition to solo pieces and studies, her students play a fair
number of scale exercises. She feels these are particularly
important for musicians because they are "the basis of
everything, because of the musicianship side of it as well as
agility."60 Her students also study the important orchestral
excerpts, one of the playing requirements for exams at the
Guildhall School.

“Most of all, I've always been keenest on the repertoire
and of complete knowledge of pieces. Not just a photocopy of
the clarinet part."61Partly because of her extensive
background as a pianist, King feels that the piano
accompaniment (or the music of other accompanying
instruments) must be carefully examined as well as the
clarinet part in order to understand completely a piece. King
believes that familiarity with all the musical components,
including harmony and form, is necessary for an accurate
interpretation.

King likes to see creativity in musical performances. ”I
love to see the signs of imagination, commitment and

"52

emotional input in music. It is not enough for a musician
to copy a performance from a recording; he or she must arrive

at his or her own interpretation. King feels strongly about

 

” Ibid.
“ Ibid.

“ Ibid.

41

this and seeks such creative aspects when judging on the
juries of competitions.

She also stresses the need for clarinetists to be
familiar with composers’ complete repertoire, not only their
works for the clarinet, to fully comprehend the composer’s
language and style.

I don’t know how you can play the Mozart pieces unless
you’ve played most of the Mozart operas or at least
gotten to know them very well. Because it is all about
opera on the clarinet.mAnd, most of those pieces [i.e.
those by Weber, Mozart], let’s face it, were dashed off
pretty quickly for one player or anothermand the real
music of those composers is in their operas or their

chamber works.63

King believes all music should be listened to critically, and
those pieces that are of high quality should be given much
attention. ”You’ve got to give it your all and search in it
and around it. Study it all your life."“

Always having an interest in promoting literature of
strong quality, King published clarinet and piano
compositions which she had arranged and edited from the
standard classical music repertoire to introduce young
students to music of well-known composers. The two volumes of
Clarinet Solos published by Chester Music include excerpts of
works by W. A. Mozart, Franz Schubert, Georges Bizet,
Bernhard Crusell and C. M. Weber, taken from their operas,
symphonies, concerti and chamber music. Several of the pieces
were selected and used by the Associated Board of Royal
Schools of Music for the Board's graded exams, which help to

assess the progress and proficiency of young music students.

 

” Ibid.

“ Ibid.

42

Later, King collaborated with Alan Frank, an important
publisher in the 19403 who had worked with many composers,
including William Walton. He and Thurston had collaborated on
The Clarinet: a Comprehensive Tutor. With Frank editing the
clarinet line and she the piano part, King published Schumann
for the Clarinet, pieces taken from the composer’s song
repertoire. Together, they also arranged a number of the
“Songs Without Words” for.Mendelssohn for the Clarinet.

After Frank died, King completed their volume of works
by Tchaikovsky as well as another with pieces by Mendelssohn,
also adaptions of excerpts from their operas, string quartets
and symphonies. And finally, she also arranged duets for two
clarinets by J.S. Bach. (A list of King’s publications can be
found in Appendix D.)

During her career, King has been recognized for her
accomplishments and has received many honors. As a student at
the Royal College, she received the Tagore Gold Medal, given
to the most outstanding student of the year. She has been
invited to serve on juries of prestigious competitions such
as the Munich International Competition, the Markneukirchen
Competition, the Prague Spring Competition, the Royal
Overseas League Competition and the Clarinet and Saxophone
Society of Great Britain Competition. For her musical
contributions, she has been named a Fellow of the Royal
College of Music and a Fellow of the Guildhall School of
Music, and she was also honored by the Royal Academy of
Music. On December 30, 2000 she became a Dame Commander of
the Order of the British Empire for her “services to music.”
This is one of the highest titles a non-royal citizen can

receive, and no other English wind player, male (as Knight)

43

or female, has received this honor. She had previously been
awarded the Officer of the same Order in 1985.

In all areas of her career, King has had a life filled
with many wonderful experiences. Though she has no plans for
future recordings, she remains active, performing chamber
music as a pianist. “I want to play chamber music with
friends and above all, chamber music with piano because
that’s where all the big stuff is, and to pick up on what I
had to drop when the clarinet and orchestral world took
over.”5

In the 19603, while still concentrating her efforts as a
clarinetist, King had two unusual ”adventures" as a pianist.66
At a performance in Cambridge, she played the clarinet for
the Johannes Brahms Quintet for Clarinet and Strings in B
minor, Op. 115 and was the pianist for the Brahms Quintet for
Piano and Strings in F minor, Op. 34. For the BBC ”Double
Exposure" series, she recorded both the clarinet and piano
parts of the Brahms Sonata for Clarinet and Piano in F minor,
Op. 120, no. 1 and all three instrumental parts of the Felix
Mendelssohn KOnzertstfick for Clarinet, Basset HOrn and Piano,
Op. 114. Few musicians can claim such versatility and
proficiency outside of their major instrument.

During tours as clarinetist with the English Chamber
Orchestra from approximately 1992 to 1999, King also
frequently performed continuo keyboard and harp parts on the
piano. On a South American tour with this orchestra, she
played harpsichord for music of Vivaldi, under the direction

of Pinchas Zukerman. At chamber concerts in Seattle,

 

 

“ Ibid.

66

King, letter to author, 30 March 2001.

44

Washington, she has performed as clarinetist and pianist in
trios and sonatas by Khachaturian, Brahms and various English
composers. She hopes to continue this kind of activity.

In order to regain her technique, King began taking
piano lessons in 1993 with Graeme Humphrey and learning the
instrument again, in a sense, by studying scales and
exercises as well as repertoire. She finds her lessons to be
inspiring because she and her teacher have similar ideas on
musical interpretation. With Humphrey, she has performed in
concerts, playing piano duos which she greatly enjoys. ”To
play next to him is like riding in a Rolls Royce car for me.
Absolutely brilliant. Because we sort of spark off each other
musically as wellmSo we have a ball because it’s so
improvisatory and alive when we perform."67

At charity concerts, music clubs and summer festivals,
she has found opportunities to play the piano with other
freelance musicians who wish to perform in smaller ensembles
after having similar careers in orchestral and freelance
work. She has most recently performed the “Trout” Quintet by
Franz Schubert and Antonin Dvorak’s ”Dumky” Trio, Op. 90.
King will also perform the piano part of John Ireland’s
Fantasy Sonata at the hundredth anniversary of Thurston’s
birth in September of 2001.

Performing chamber music on piano has brought King great
excitement and a sense of fulfillment. By playing the music
of composers whose clarinet and orchestral works she has
frequently performed, King is ”linking all the experiences"

that she has had throughout her life.68

 

” King, interview by author.

5° Ibid.

45

Chapter Three

Pamela weston

Pamela Weston was born in London, England on October 17,
1921. Her mother, of Scottish and English descent, was a
talented amateur violinist. It was through her prompting that
Weston, as well as her brother and sister, began music
lessons at an early age. Weston's father was half English and
half Welsh and a descendent of Sir Francis Drake of the
Spanish Armada. Also on his side of the family was the first
Earl of Portland. Her father was a doctor, not a musician,
but was always a proud “fan". When she began to broadcast
performances on the BBC radio, he would frequently call the
people in the waiting room into his office to listen to his
daughter play.

The only clarinetist of Weston’s family was her mother’s
great grandfather, an engineer who was an amateur clarinetist
and played a C boxwood clarinet. Weston at one time owned
this instrument, but had to sell it during WOrld War II,
since her family frequently moved and did not wish to carry
extra belongings.

As a young child, Weston received a musical education
filled with varied experiences. She began by taking piano
lessons using the Yorke Trotter Method which included
exercises in memorization and transposition. She also was
involved in Dalcroze dance, took voice lessons and
participated in ”Choral Speaking” classes where she learned
Poems and spoke them with other students as a choir.
Techniques concerning vocal projection and annunciation

learned from this class later proved to be useful in her

46

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frequent lecture giving.

Although her early musical background was fairly
extensive, it was not until the age of twenty that Weston
began to play the clarinet. Her interest in the instrument
was peaked by hearing Frederick Thurston play the W. A.
Mozart Concerto, K. 622 on the radio, although by this time
she had already given quite a few solo performances as a
pianist.

From 1941 to 1943, Weston attended the Royal Academy of
Music. Piano was her main instrument, and the clarinet was
her second study. She took clarinet lessons from George
Anderson, who had studied with Henry Lazarus and had played
in the London Symphony Orchestra for nearly forty years. She
struggled somewhat, learning many of the playing techniques
on her own since he did not focus his teaching on these
matters. She describes herself during her beginning stages as
having been the ”world’s worst squeaker.”66

After attending the Royal Academy, weston began taking
occasional private lessons with Frederick Thurston who had
been evacuated with the BBC Symphony Orchestra to Bedford
during WOrld War II. To earn her living, she taught piano
students at several locations, including Slough and Bedford.
It was while teaching at Bedford that weston first met Thea
King who was a student at the high school. Thurston even
suggested that she give King piano lessons. Weston describes
King as already having been an accomplished pianist by that
time.

From 1945 to 1949, weston was a student at the Guildhall

School of Music in London. She had originally wished to

 

“ Pamela Weston, interview by author: Hythe, England, 26 July 2000.

47

attend the Royal College of Music to study with Thurston, the
clarinet professor there, but she did not receive a
scholarship and could not afford the fees. She was one of two
finalists considered for the scholarship, the other being
Gervase de Peyer. The principal of the school did not approve
of women going into the profession and perhaps this affected
her application.

Ultimately, Weston’s attending the Guildhall School,
where she did receive a scholarship, was to her advantage.
Since it was a smaller school at the time, she received more
personal instruction and had more performing opportunities.
The principal, Edric Cundell, took a personal interest in his
students and coordinated performances for them outside of the
school. In addition, he arranged for Weston to play the
Mozart Concerto, K. 622 with the school orchestra. Her piano
teacher, Frank Griggs, was a large influence and also helped
in scheduling performances. At one time, he offered to buy
weston a new set of clarinets as her pair was ”groggy".
Wilfred Kealey was Weston’s clarinet teacher at the Guildhall
School. However, since he did not concentrate on correcting
her technical problems in playing the clarinet, she had to
continue working on them independently.

During her time at the Guildhall School, weston took the
Opportunity to take periodic lessons with Thurston at his
home. He was willing to teach her and was accommodating in
his scheduling. On one such occasion, Thurston needed to
leave to perform at a Promenade Concert. (“Proms" is the
large music festival held annually in London.) After riding
on the top level of a double-decker bus, they arrived at the

Royal Albert Hall and continued the lesson in the artists’

48

room until Thurston was called to the stage. In Thurston’s
playing Weston found great inspiration.

Weston sees her weak start on the clarinet as an
advantage. Because she received little instruction on the
techniques of playing from her teachers, she was forced to
“sit down and sort things out."67 Her extra work became
helpful later in her own teaching since she was better able
to verbally articulate the technical processes of playing.

Weston describes her musical career as being in three

major parts: performance, teaching and research/writing.

I. ggrformance:

Influenced by Thurston’s inspiring playing in the BBC
Symphony Orchestra, Weston studied the clarinet with the
intention of becoming an orchestral musician. As a freelance
musician, she was often hired for single performances. She
deputized often in chamber orchestras, such as the Alexander
Orchestra and the Sadlers Wells Orchestra, after WOrld War
II. In these chamber orchestras, she participated in radio
broadcasts where she often played next to Thea King and
Gervase de Peyer.

Active as a soloist, Weston gave recitals and regularly
performed for radio broadcasts from 1947 to 1965. WOrks by
Johannes Brahms and Sir Charles Villiers Stanford were among
her favorites to perform. She did not play contemporary
music. ”I think that real contemporary music, that written in

the last ten years, gives me much more pleasure than the sort

 

" Pamela Weston, interview by James Gillespie, The Clarinet 6, no. 3
(Spring 1979), 6.

49

of things that were written in the ’603 and ’703."68 She
believes that much of the unpleasant nature of the music from
that time was a reaction to the war.

weston has had several works dedicated to her. A BBC
producer and composer, David Cox wrote Shalemy Dance (Oxford
University Press, 1957) for clarinet and piano. Dedicated to
Weston and her students is Putney Pieces (Paterson’s
Publications, 1985) by Colin Cowles, so-called from driving
his daughter to Weston’s residence in Putney for lessons.69

During the years when Weston was performing, she was
invited to do broadcasts of solo works and chamber music
through ”word-of-mouth" recommendations from colleagues with
whom she had worked earlier. Today, most players have
“entrepreneurs" who invite BBC representatives to hear their
performers’ concerts. Many of the broadcasts in which weston
participated were performed live at nine o’clock in the
morning for ”The Music Program”, now the Radio 3 (the
classical music division of the BBC Radio). For these
broadcasts, she would rehearse with one of the staff
accompanists and have a sound check and balance test on the
morning of the broadcast. Because she lived in Chelsea at the
time, it was necessary for her to awaken at five o'clock in
order to be at the studio by 7 a.m. Recordings of these
broadcasts were unfortunately lost when she moved into her
current residence.

Weston had numerous experiences as a chamber musician.

She often played with string quartets, performing the

 

“ Weston, interview by author, 26 July 2000.

" Weston, letter to author, 5 March 2001.

50

clarinet quintets of Brahms, Reger and Mozart. Her first
major concert was in 1950 when she performed the Mozart
Quintet, K. 581 with the Blech Quartet in London. The
quartet’s founder, Harry Blech, had had to retire because of
arthritis. His place as leader was taken by Erich Gruenberg,
and the group was re-named the New London Quartet. The BBC
came to the concert and invited Weston onto their panel of
broadcasters without need for audition.

While a student at the Guildhall School in 1948, weston
was invited by soprano Jean Broadley to form the Klarion Trio
with pianist Eileen Nugent. In 1959, after both Broadley and
Nugent retired from performing, pianist Isabel Bedlington and
soprano Pamela Woolmore joined Weston. The Klarion Trio
continued concertizing until 1965 when Weston decided to end
the performing portion of her career.

It was for the Klarion Trio that Weston’s friend Arnold
Cooke wrote Three Songs of Innocence. The trio gave the first
performance and broadcast of the piece in Manchester, England
in 1959. This composition has since become a standard work in
the repertoire. Another piece was written for the Trio by
harpsichordist and pianist Michael Maxwell: “The Water of
Tyne" (Schott & Co. Ltd., 19503).

There have been few permanent clarinet, voice and piano
trio ensembles which perform or record regularly. As a
result, there is little knowledge about the repertoire for
this combination, and only a few pieces, usually those by
Schubert and Mozart, are regularly performed. Weston edited
several pieces for the trio as found in Appendix E, all of
‘which she performed with the group.

To further broaden the Trio's repertoire, Weston

51

searched for music at the British Museum. Geoffrey Rendall,
the English clarinetist who authored The Clarinet, an
important scholarly account of the history of the instrument,
worked in the Department of Prints of the Museum and assisted
her. As she conducted her research, she discovered and became
intrigued by accounts of performers and composers and their
interactions. It was largely through these discoveries that
Weston became interested in doing research on topics

connected with the clarinet.

II. Teaching:

In 1951, Edric Cundell, principal of the Guildhall
School, asked Weston to become a clarinet professor at the
School. At first, she taught together with her past teacher,
Wilfred Kealey, and at that time felt as though she was still
learning the instrument. The Guildhall School was the only
school of music where Weston taught, and she continued her
association there until 1969 when she resigned the post to
teach privately.

When she lived in Putney, Weston had a studio where
college students came for lessons. She also instructed
private pupils of varying abilities and ages (young children
to adults). ”I don’t aim to teach only the very highest
standard. I am interested in anybody who will come and make a
go of it and get something out of their lessons and thereby
enrich their own individual lives.”70 weston would often hold
evening classes for her adult students. At these times, the

students would play together in trios or quartets, which they

 

" Weston, interview by James Gillespie, The Clarinet 6, no. 3 (Spring
1979h'7-

52

particularly enjoyed because they were able to learn more
literature and otherwise, they rarely had an opportunity to
play in ensemble situations.

In the 19503, Weston was asked by the London publishers
Schott 8 Co. Ltd. to produce clarinet publications for young
students. This stimulated her interest in students at their
early stages of study and led her into new paths of editing
and arranging clarinet music. For Schott, she often arranged
30103 that were taken from literature not originally for the
clarinet. Some of the arrangements were of piano and violin
works whose melodies she felt transferred easily to the
clarinet. These publications include the First Clarinet Album
followed by the Second, Third and Feurth Clarinet Albums.
Weston published four volumes of Album of Duets with Schott,
also for elementary players. In addition to these Albums,
Weston published with Fentone Music 23 Steps for YOung
Clarinettists. These publications filled an important gap in
available music for young clarinetists.

Although she began by arranging music for younger
students, Weston has published compositions for all levels of
performance abilities and in many mediums. In addition to
pieces for clarinet and piano, she has published works for
clarinet duo and trio; flute and clarinet duo; concerti;
works for soprano, clarinet and piano as well as chamber
pieces for clarinet and strings. A complete list of works
published by Weston is listed in Appendix E.

In her teaching, Weston stressed the technical aspects
of playing as well as musicality. She assigned her students
scales, arpeggios and technical studies (such as those

written by Carl Baermann). Because she had not received such

53

instruction when she was a beginning student and felt she was
a weaker player as a result, she understood the benefits of
learning such exercises from the start. She feels that one’s
playing cannot be truly effective if his or her technique is
lacking. "I was very strong on [technique] and I made it
clear from the beginning of their first lesson: You’ve really
got to do this, or you can’t express yourself. You’ve got no
language."71

A typical lesson of Weston’s began with a series of long
tones, just as Thurston had begun his lessons. Technical
studies were followed by solo literature and orchestral
excerpts. She also included sightreading, which often
contained transposition as well.

Weston stresses the need for imaginative playing. If she
were still teaching today, she would insist that her students
play jazz to gain more flexibility in interpretation. In
jazz, "you never, ever lay down a hard, fast rule."72 She
would often have her students experiment by playing passages
in several different ways. The exception to this freedom is,
of course, in technical matters where it is important to be
strict.

Many of Weston’s ideas on teaching the clarinet are
detailed in her book The Clarinet Teacher’s companion,
written in 1976. In this book are specific details for
teachers on clarinet instruction. She felt that at that time
there was much material aimed toward students, but few
resources for instructors.

weston covers a wide range of topics in The cempanion.

 

“ Weston, interview by author, 26 July 2000.

" Weston, interview by author, 27 July 2000.

54

At the beginning of the book is a short chapter discussing
some of the first significant clarinet teachers and the
tutors they wrote. This material is included because she felt
that it was important for teachers to understand they are
connected to a long tradition of clarinet instruction. Among
those clarinetists discussed is Iwan Mfiller (1786-1854) who
wrote a method book for the 13-key, simple system instrument
that he developed. Another clarinetist discussed is Jean
Xavier Lefévre (1763-1829), who taught at the Paris
Conservatory and wrote the official tutor for the school in
1802. In addition, Weston makes note of Hyacinthe Eléonore
Klosé (1808-1880) who taught at the Paris Conservatory and
with Louis-Auguste Buffet developed a 17-key, Boehm system
instrument which has since become the most commonly used
system throughout the world. Klosé wrote a highly successful
tutor for the instrument in 1843 which is still widely used
today. Another important teacher mentioned by Weston in this
chapter is Carl Baermann (1810-1885). He taught at the Royal
School of Music in Munich and designed an 18-key instrument
for which he wrote a method book. This method was later
adapted for the Boehm system instrument and is also currently
used.

Throughout the book, Weston includes pertinent quotes
from standard method books of the past. For example, John
Mahon wrote in his New and Complete Preceptor for the
Clarinet (published in 1803) that long tones ”should be
practiced to ’acquire a firmness of the Lips, or Embouchure,

and proper government of the Reed, which is the foundation of

55

good tone.’"73 In the chapter concerning articulation, Weston
quotes from Lefévre’s Méthode de Clarinette (written in
1803):

Articulation by stringed instruments is produced either
through the medium of a bow, as for example a violin, or
with the fingers, as on the harp or guitar; that by wind
instruments is made with the tongue. Without the tongue
it is impossible to play the clarinet well, for it is to
this instrument what the bow is to the violin.”

Also discussed in The Companion are Weston’s views on
the qualities of a good teacher as well as of a student. She
believes that a teacher should be a specialist on the
instrument and should not teach simply because a performing
career was not successful. “The first requirement in a
teacher is that he should have a genuine desire to show and
help others, and love doing it."15 A teacher should also have
experience in performing and be able to play the piano in
order to accompany students in lessons. Concerning a
student's attitude, Weston states, ”His enthusiasm should be
genuinely for the sound of the clarinet, he should be able
and quick to respond to teaching, and willing to practice for

a definite period each day.76

The majority of The Companion concentrates on the
technique of playing: embouchure, breathing, articulation,
hand position and finger movement. She also addresses the

selection of instruments and reeds as well as interpretation,

 

" Pamela Weston, The Clarinet Teacher’s Companion (London: Breitkopf &
Bartel, 1976), 56.

" Ibid, 65.
’5 Ibid, 22.
7‘ Ibid, 23—24.

56

ornamentation, rhythm, practicing methods and performing.
Though The Companion is quite short, it is complete and
thorough and serves as a reflection of her concern in
providing students, young and old, with an excellent,

comprehensive music education.

III. Research/writing:

During the third period of her career, research and
writing, Weston has made significant contributions to the
study of the history of the clarinet. Although she has been
an important teacher and performer, it is perhaps in her
research that Weston has been the most influential. The
articles for various periodicals that she has written, as
well has her books Clarinet Virtuosi of the Past, More
Clarinet Virtuosi of the Past and Clarinet Virtuosi of Today,
have been valuable resources for clarinetists worldwide.
Although her interest in research was kindled as she looked
for music for the Klarion Trio, it was not until she left her
professorship at the Guildhall School in 1969 that she began
“serious research.""

Because Weston did not begin her career with the
intentions of being a writer, she had no background as a
scholar. “I had no university training, only musical. I did
not learn how to start research. I never had any of that. It
was all learning by experience."78

When she began her research and writing, Weston did not

have a mentor, nor did anyone read her materials before she

 

77

Weston, interview by author, 26 July 2000.

" Ibid.

57

edited her work. In part, this was because she was one of the
only scholars doing this kind of research; no one else had
the information she possessed. She received advice and
encouragement from Walter Bergman, who was an important
figure in the recorder and harpsichord disciplines. He also
was the managing editor of Schott & Co. Ltd. and aided in
Weston’s music editing. In collaboration with Bergman, Weston
edited for Schott: Three Songs for Soprano, Clarinet and
Piano by James Hook (1962), Trio, Op. 20, no. 5 for Clarinet,
Violin and Piano by Johann Baptist Vanhal (1965) and TWelve
English Country Dances (1963).

Weston has never limited the topics of her publications
on the clarinet to a specific time period or country. For The
Clarinet, the journal of the International Clarinet
Association, she has written articles on a wide range of
subjects, including: “In Defense of Weber" (Vol. 13, no. 3),
”Japan’s Clarinet Scene" (Vol. 14, no. 3), Italy’s Bel Canto
Clarinetists" (Vol. 23, no. 2) and ”The First Hundred Years
of Clarinetistry in Czarist & Soviet Russia" (Vol. 27, no.
4). For the periodical, The Music Teacher, Weston wrote a
number of articles concerning teaching and performing. Many
articles were also published in other journals:.MUsic and
Letters, MUsic and.MUsicians,.MUsical Times, National
Association of College Wind and Percussion Instructors,
Clarinet and Saxophone (the journal of the Clarinet and
Saxophone Society of Great Britain) and Clarinet Scene.

For the New Grove Dictionary of MUsic and.MUsicians,
Weston has written biographies of all the classical
clarinetists. For the 2001 edition, she wrote thirty—seven

entries including one on the Verdehr Trio of Michigan State

58

University. When she was contributing articles for the 1980
edition, the editor, Stanley Sadie, had to be convinced to
include one of the best-known jazz players. ”It came to Benny
Goodman's name, and [Sadie] said, ’Oh we can’t have that
chap! He plays like he’s got a hot potato in his mouth!’ He
got shot down. The committee said, ’We must have
[Goodman].’"79 Richard Wang, an American jazz writer,
subsequently wrote the article on Goodman.

Weston’s chief curiosity and interest lies in the
performers and composers of the clarinet. That she enjoys
meeting and learning about clarinet players is evident when
speaking with Weston. She knows many stories of great players
of both the past and the present and is eager to share them.
For example, when speaking about Benny Goodman, weston
recalls his anxiousness at the premiere performance in London
in 1976 of Malcom Arnold’s Second Concerto, a work written
for him. Goodman, known for his success as a jazz player, was
typically nervous when playing classical music.

Another player Weston enjoyed meeting is Karl Leister.
She first met him at an International Clarinet Congress in
Denver. When speaking with him, she was surprised to learn
that he did not know of Frederick Thurston even though their
playing styles were similar. On another occasion, weston
interviewed Leister at the Royal Academy of Music for her
book Clarinet Virtuosi of Teday. There, she had the chance to
observe him giving a master class on Mozart’s Quintet, Op.
581. Instead of coaching the clarinetist as the audience

expected, Leister spent most of the session working with the

 

59

quartet. “He tore them to shreds! They were all sitting up

and getting red in the face. It was so interesting. He was so

knowledgeable about string instruments."80

Weston also speaks highly of Suzanne Stephens, the
clarinetist for whom Karlheinz Stockhausen has written his
clarinet works. At one of the International Clarinet
Congresses in Denver, Stephens gave a performance of
Stockhausen’s Harlequin. Recollecting the performance, Weston

states:

[Stockhausen] set up the auditorium with lights shining
on her. She looked absolutely wonderful. For most of us,
it was our first experience of circular breathing. She
would kneel down in front of a very large stage. Kneel
down, still playing, keeping the tone going and get up
again without breaking. It’s incredible.“

Weston’s first book Clarinet Virtuosi of the Past was
written in 1971, the result of notes collected at the British
Museum while doing research of repertoire for the Klarion
Trio:

[I was] picking up various tidbits about great
performers from the past, becoming intrigued, making
notes as I went alongmAnd then I thought, “I am getting
so much material I ought to do something with it. What
shall I do?” And then I started writing the book.82

In the preface of Clarinet Virtuosi of the Past, weston
poses several questions about clarinet players: ”What sort of
people were they? Under what conditions did they live? What,

where and how did they play? What instruments did they use?"83

 

” Weston, interview by author, 27 July 2000.
“ Weston, interview by author, 26 July 2000.

” Weston, interview by James Gillespie, The Clarinet 6, no. 3 (Spring
1979), 6.

” Weston, interview by author, 26 July 2000.

60

Throughout the book, Weston addresses these questions. The
book largely concentrates on clarinetists for whom major
composers wrote compositions which are now part of the
standard repertoire. These clarinetists include: Anton
Stadler, for whom W. A. Mozart wrote his clarinet
compositions; Johann Hermstedt to whom Louis Spohr dedicated
his works; Heinrich Baermann for whom C. M. Weber wrote five
of six of his compositions for clarinet and Richard Mfihlfeld
for whom Johannes Brahms wrote his sonatas and chamber music
with clarinet. Mention is also made of lesser-known players,
including Thomas Lindsay Willman, Joseph Beer, Franz

Tausch, Iwan Mfiller and Joseph Friedlowsky.

The book begins with a discussion of the Hungarian, Mr.
Charles, who was active during the time of Handel and gave
one of the first known advertised performances on the
clarinet and chalumeau. The book then progresses in
chronological order, focusing on the principal clarinetists
in separate chapters. The final chapter is devoted to English
clarinet players of approximately a two hundred year time
span, 1750 to 1950, discussing performers such as Henry
Lazarus, Julian Egerton, Charles Draper and Frederick
Thurston. Information regarding their teachers and the
positions they held in orchestras and schools is given.

Weston states that the purpose of Clarinet Virtuosi of

the Past was to ”bring inanimate names into the realm of
living characters."“ The accounts of the players are enhanced

by plates of paintings and photographs of clarinetists,

 

“ Pamela Weston, Clarinet Virtuosi of the Past. (London: Hale, 1971;
reprint, London: Fentone 1976, 1982, 1986, 1994), 11 (page citations are
to the 1994 reprint edition).

61

composers and instruments as well as copies of letters and
illustrations from method books. From these, a greater
understanding of the personalities and accomplishments of the
players and composers is achieved.

A second book, Mere Clarinet Virtuosi of the Past,
written in 1977, is an augmentation of the previous book.
Here, Weston includes biographies of approximately a thousand
clarinet players, some of whom were discussed in
Clarinet Virtuosi of the Past. There is no repetition of
material, however, since the information included is new and
meant to supplement the previous book.

While her first book concentrates on top-level players,
Mere Clarinet Virtuosi includes information on second-level
clarinetists (some of whom were briefly discussed in the
first book) and third-level players. Weston believes this
last group is important since they often played works that
were unusual. In the biographies, which are listed
alphabetically, important dates and places of employment are
included. Where applicable, listings are included of the
performers’ recordings as well as bibliographies and lists of
pieces the performers have written.

Like the first book, Mere Clarinet Virtuosi includes
photographs and copies of letters. In addition, there is a
more extensive index as well as a location list which details
the known cities where the performers worked for more than a
year. This is quite specific, providing the dates of the
players’ employment in the cities as well as the type of
institution in which they served (i.e., courts, orchestras,
schools, etc.). Another important addition is a composition

list on which composers are listed by their clarinet works.

62

The names of players and the dates on which they performed
the specific works are also included.

A third book, Clarinet Virtuosi of Today, was published
in 1989 and written with much the same purpose of the
previous books: to give a clear understanding of the
personalities of the great clarinet players who are often
thought of as inanimate ”names". Unlike the previous books,
the players discussed in Virtuosi of Today were still active
and prominent in various musical fields at the time of
publication. Most have held principal positions in major
orchestras or have been active as soloists, chamber musicians
or as university and conservatory teachers.

In Clarinet Virtuosi of Today, the lives of forty-five
clarinetists are discussed in individual chapters. The
entries include players from Argentina, Austria, Belgium,
Canada, Czechoslovakia, England, France, Germany, Holland,
Iceland, Italy, Japan, New Zealand, Sweden, Switzerland, the
former Soviet Union and the United States (including Elsa
Ludewig-Verdehr of Michigan State University). Because ”their

cultures are comparatively new and thus of particular

['85

interest in themselves, there are also two additional
chapters on clarinetists of Australia and Japan. In the
introduction, Weston makes special mention of Benny Goodman
and Reginald Kell who were not included in the previous
publications because their lives fell between the two books.86
Although the players interviewed came from a variety of

nations, there were no language barrier problems. Those

 

“ Pamela Weston, Clarinet Virtuosi of Today. (Hertfordshire: Egon
Publishers Ltd., 1989) 14.

“ Ibid, 9.

63

musicians who did not speak English had friends or family
members who translated for them. The only occasion for
possible difficulty was with a player from Czechoslovakia:
Jiri Kratochvil. Although he had requested an interpreter,
Weston could not afford to bring one to the interview. She
recalls:

Do you know that he talked solidly in broken English for
about two hours? And he wanted an interpreter? Once
these clarinet players get going, they talk on end! It
was so funnyImIt would have taken twice as long with an
interpreter.87

She wrote Clarinet Virtuosi of Today to document the
players' careers and personalities. She felt that such is
needed because:

In these days, when the recording market is rich in
excellent performances by musicians from all over the
world, the public’s curiosity is aroused to know more
about the artists they are listening to and to discover
who are the really great amongst the plethora of talent
placed before them.88

Because all the players in the book were still living,
Weston was able to conduct interviews with them personally,
often traveling long distances to their homes. During most of
the interviews, she was accompanied by Gerald Drucker, the
principal double—bass player for the Philharmonia of London
who is also an accomplished photographer. While she conducted
the interviews, Drucker photographed the musicians.

”Each of our portraits, in words and photographs, aims
to present a study of personality as well as a record of

achievements."89 Weston and Drucker have captured each

 

” Weston, interview by author, 27 July 2000.

“ Weston, Clarinet Virtuosi of Today, 9.

39 Ibid, 14 .

64

player’s character very well. The chapters are filled with
stories of their musical training, of people who were
influential in the clarinetists’ lives and of their unique
experiences. This book is more personal in nature than her
previous Virtuosi books since there are direct quotes from
each player. Each of the accompanying photographs is uniquely
posed and portrays the musician to be warm and personable.

Currently, Weston is in the process of writing a new
book: Yesterday’s Clarinetists, a Sequel. As the title
suggests, it is a sequel to Mere Clarinet Virtuosi of the
Past and will contain six hundred new entries. There will be
no duplication of material from the other books because only
newly discovered information will be included in Yesterday’s
Clarinetists. So that the reader will be able to have easy
access to the clarinetists' complete information, she will
use cross-references to the other books. The book will be
published in 2002 by the Dutch firm, De Haske.

Weston has spent much time and energy in her research.
Much of her research has been done at the British Library.
She also received information by contacting various foreign
libraries. Nowadays, this technique of research is less
expeditious. Weston states:

In a sense, I suppose I was very, very lucky doing it
when I did it, early on in the ’603, because [the
archivists] didn’t have the same demands on their time.
They were very willing to answer your letters, and they

answered them quickly.90

Now, because of the increased number of student scholars in
recent years, libraries receive many requests and are at

times less helpful in correspondence. Nonetheless, she

 

” Weston, interview by author, 27 July 2000.

65

believes that, in some ways, historical information is more
accessible.

Travel and interconnection is so much easier. So, that
if people like you were going to be a musicologist,
which I’m not, you’d have access to all these details
and court lists and so on. It would be so much easier to
get a hold of the information. One day, there will be
nothing to tell!91

Weston has traveled extensively, not only to interview
the subjects for Clarinet Virtuosi of deay, but also in her
quest to trace descendants of clarinet players. Though
tracing descendants is a difficult task, it has led to many
interesting experiences for Weston. For example, she met the
daughters of the brothers Francisco and Manuel Gomez during
her research for Clarinet Virtuosi of the Past. When speaking
with them, Weston often had to make a judgment as to which
woman was accurate in her accounts. Frequently, one of the
daughters would be speaking of the “other” Gomez clarinetist
and it all became slightly confusing!

It was through meeting the descendants of Richard
Mfihlfeld, for whom Johannes Brahms had written his clarinet
works, that Weston received one of her prized possessions: a
silver teaspoon which had belonged to the clarinetist. Weston
had written to the court of Meiningen, where he had worked,
requesting pictures of the clarinetist and was referred to
the Mfihlfeld family. When Weston visited the family, she made
numerous notes from stories about Mfihlfeld which his daughter
told. The grandson, also named Richard, translated his aunt’s
German. While there, weston played from the manuscripts of
Brahms’ sonatas which were at that time still in the family's

possession. (These manuscripts were recently auctioned and

 

9‘ Ibid.

66

sold to a private American buyer.)

Through her research, Weston has gathered many pictures
of clarinetists and composers. Her publications contain many
photographs that she has received from descendants, courts
and libraries. She particularly enjoys these photographs, as
she feels the musicians become more human upon viewing their
postures and facial expressions.

Weston has collected many important manuscripts
throughout her career. For example, Weston owns the
manuscript of Ernesto Cavallini’s Carnevale for Clarinet and
String Quartet which is scheduled to be published soon by
Fentone Music. Weston was also given by Oscar Street’s
daughter a copy of the piano arrangement of Charles
Stanford’s Concerto for Clarinet, Op. 80. Oscar Street was an
amateur clarinetist who financially subsidized Frederick
Thurston and Charles Draper. Street, together with Draper,
was the dedicatee of Stanford’s Sonata for Clarinet and
Piano, Op. 129. Fifty years after Stanford’s death, when
copyright restrictions expired, Weston oversaw the
publication of the Concerto for Clarinet in 1977 for Cramer
Music.

Several other of weston’s publications are worth
discussing in detail. From 1986 to 1993, weston edited and
published the six major clarinet works of C. M. Weber. All of
the compositions except the Grand Duo, Op. 48 had been
written for Heinrich Baermann. Baermann’s son Carl and
grandson, also named Carl, issued editions of the works which
are still used by clarinetists today. There are numerous
errors in these editions. ”These gentlemen not only created

problems by ambiguous markings, but took gross liberties with

67

the scores on the questionable grounds of performance
practice traditions handed down from Heinrich Baermann."“

Weston acquired photocopies of the Weber manuscripts and
edited the works, correcting the mistakes that are still
found in the currently—used Baermann editions. Her editions
are particularly interesting since she included both the
unedited Weber original clarinet line and her corrected
version in the score, thus contrasting the composer’s
original version with the edited part. She originally signed
a contract with Schott & Co. Ltd. for publication of the
Weber editions, but when a new managing editor was appointed
by Schott who objected to including both clarinet lines, she
canceled the contract. Fentone Music immediately saw the
advantages of her editing and published them with successful
results.

Weston has a particular interest in the concerto written
by W. A. Mozart for basset clarinet, Concerto in A Major, K.
622. Because the original manuscript of this piece has been
lost for many years, scholars have only been able to surmise
what the manuscript contained. Gradually, new information has
come to light. For example, a clarinetist who immigrated from
Germany to play in the Boston Symphony was said to have had a
copy of the concerto manuscript. This unfortunately has not
yet been located.

Perhaps a more concrete piece of evidence is an
arrangement of the concerto for piano and string quartet,
Grand Quintetto, which Christian Friedrich Gottlieb Schwencke

(1767—1822) and Bohme of Hamburg had published in the early

 

” Weston, foreword to Concerto for Clarinet No. 1, Op. 73 by C. M.
Weber. (Corby: Fentone, 1986).

68

nineteenth century. It is believed that he had a copy of
Mozart’s original manuscript and that he based his
arrangement on it. In this quintet version, Schwencke placed
the original clarinet melody in the piano line. Although
there are passages that Schwencke altered for pianistic
reasons, his arrangement provides valuable insight to
Mozart’s original composition.93

Weston purchased a copy of Schwencke’s arrangement and
based her 1996 publication of the concerto for Universal
Edition of Vienna on it. She believes that Schwencke’s
arrangement is a valuable item in the quest to discover
Mozart’s intentions. ”I obviously think that until we can

"94

actually find the original, it’s as far as we can get.

Because of these recent findings, Weston believes that
the Mozart Concerto manuscript must still exist. ”So, now
we’re getting to the bottom of Mozart. Let’s hope one day
that we find the manuscript. I can’t help feeling that it
can’t have been destroyed."95

In her edition, Weston includes parts for both basset
clarinet in A and for the ”normal” A clarinet. She feels
that compositions written originally for the basset clarinet
ought to be performed on the instrument whenever possible
because of the difference in tone quality as well as the
extended range of the basset instrument in relation to the A

clarinet. ”I feel very strongly about that. But at the

 

93

Weston, Preface to Concerto, K. 622 Ed. for Basset Clarinet in A and
Clarinet in A by W. A. Mozart. (Vienna: Universal Edition, 1996).

“ Weston, interview by author, 26 July 2000.

” Ibid.

69

moment, it is not financially possible for everyone. It

certainly must not stop people from learning the music.”96
Today, more commercial instrument makers are producing
basset clarinets since there is a renewed interest in playing
Mozart’s works on the type of instrument for which they were
originally intended. Because the quality of these new
instruments is improving, Weston hopes that more players will
purchase them. People buying basset clarinets will ”encourage
composers to write more for it. Then it’s not quite so
expensive a thing to perform the Mozart pieces!"97
There are few who have studied and researched the
history of clarinet players as thoroughly as Pamela Weston.
Because of this, her knowledge is unique. As a result, Weston
has encountered no bias as a woman in a profession that has
traditionally been male dominated. Issues surrounding women’s

roles in music have not concerned Weston:

It’s never been a topic that I’ve been the least bit
interested in. It hasn't affected me.mBasically, it’s
because I’ve found something that is quite different and
hadn’t been done before.98

Even in a performing context and as a student, Weston
never experienced prejudice. She recognizes that other women,
such as those whose careers have focused on performing, have
encountered prejudice in the past. "I don’t think it was not
seen as proper [to play an instrument]. It was chauvinism,

"99

pure chauvinism.

 

“ Ibid.

” Ibid.
98

Weston, interview by author, 27 July 2000.

” Ibid.

70

Throughout all areas of her career, Weston has been an
active member of the clarinet community. As the premier
scholar of the clarinet, she is also one of the strongest
advocates of the instrument. Not only is she known for her
published books and articles and by the pieces she has
edited, but she is also well-respected as a lecturer on
historical clarinet topics.

To Weston, the sharing of her ideas and research has
been extremely important. She has given presentations at
numerous Congresses of the International Clarinet
Association. The first was at Denver in 1979, where she was
more nervous than she anticipated. She had injured her ankle
on uneven pavement the day before during a photography
session with Stanley and Naomi Drucker and needed to use a
cane. However, she was put at ease by fellow British
clarinetist John Denman who during his introduction of her at
the Congress, joked about her “falling for Stanley
Drucker.””°

In August of 1984, Weston was the director of the annual
International Clarinet Congress. This was the first, and so
far, the only Congress of its type held in England. There
were performances by well-known English clarinetists such as
Thea King, Alan Hacker, Stephen Trier and Georgina Dobrée as
well as by international players from the United States,
Japan, Italy and Sweden. In addition, there were several
recitals of music for basset horn and a jazz performance
given by John Denman. A program was presented by Elsa
Ludewig-Verdehr and the Verdehr Trio on clarinet music

written by women composers, and the grandson of Richard

 

1°° Ibid.

71

Mfihlfeld gave a lecture on his grandfather with a slide show.
Also at this Congress, Mitchell Lurie gave the premiere
performance of Robert Muczynski’s Time Pieces, one of the
most important twentieth century clarinet works, with the
composer at the piano.

Before she became more active in the International
Clarinet Association, Weston was Vice-President of the
Clarinet and Saxophone Society of Great Britain (CASS).
Unlike the ICA, this organization focuses more on amateur
playing and is not so internationally-oriented. Weston
frequently has written articles for the Society's journal,
Clarinet and Saxophone, and still continues to do so on
occasion.

As well as presenting performance broadcasts, Weston has
participated in many radio broadcast talks. Often she is
asked to speak about the pieces being performed during
intermissions of live broadcasts. She has also participated
in discussions on the radio, talking about various topics
connected with the clarinet. Some of these discussions were
with the clarinetist Jack Brymer.

Weston has dedicated her professional life to the
clarinet. In addition to the time spent in her research and
writing, she has provided her own funding for her research
and publications and paid for translations as well as the
photographs that appear throughout her books and articles. As
is usual in England, she has not received grants to fund her
work, and except for the recently published Chinese
translation of Clarinet Virtuosi of the Past, she has not
received any advancements on her publications. She states:

I spend all my money on the clarinet, virtually.mI’ve
always had, and still get, good royalties from.my music

72

editions and books. That’s all been put back into the
clarinet. I have no family, you see. So, it’s all mine
to give out!101

Weston’s contributions to the research of the history of
the clarinet and its players have been acknowledged
internationally. She has received honorary memberships of the
International Clarinet Association, the Clarinet and
Saxophone Society of Great Britain and the Clarinet Society
of New South Wales, Australia. Weston is proud to have been
recognized for her work.

Throughout all aspects of her activity, Weston has seen
it as a rewarding duty to help fellow clarinetists. ”It’s my
privilege, and I wouldn’t stint anything."102 Her efforts are
much appreciated and respected by clarinetists
internationally. In comparison to writings on other musicians
such as conductors, vocalists and pianists, there is little
written on wind players. This is one reason why Weston’s
three Clarinet Virtuosi books and her many articles are so
valuable. Her publications will continue to be of great
importance well into the future.

Weston has found her work extremely fascinating. She is
grateful for the vast opportunities she has had in writing
about virtuoso clarinetists of the past as well as meeting
those of today. It is this aspect of her work that she
considers to be the most fulfilling. When she speaks of the
players, her enthusiasm is readily apparent. ”I do it for the

love of the clarinet! Or the players! No, both! I love the

 

1“ Ibid.

1” Weston, interview by author, 26 July 2000.

73

instrument."

103

 

”3 Ibid.

74

Chapter Four

English Clarinetists of Today

Thea King and Pamela Weston are part of a legacy of
English clarinet playing. Their ”lineage" is impressive as
they both studied with Frederick Thurston, who was a pupil of
Charles Draper, who studied with Henry Lazarus. Just as King
and Weston have continued the tradition passed to them, so
have many players of the next generation of English
clarinetists.

Two of the most prominent clarinetists to follow King
and Weston are Emma Johnson and Michael Johnson. Emma Johnson
(b. 1966) was a proficient clarinetist at a young age, and
she became well-known upon winning the BBC Young Musician of
the Year in 1984 at the age of sixteen. Johnson is mainly
self-taught, having had little formal training before or
after the competition. She attended Cambridge University to
study English, and although she participated in musical
activities at the university, she did not study the clarinet
privately.

Through winning the competition, Johnson gained numerous
performance opportunities and gave many recitals and concerto
appearances as well as participated in radio and television
broadcasts. Several pieces were written for her, including:
Suite for Emma by John Dankworth, Witz by Simon Proctor and
Flighting by Michael Berkeley. Johnson has recorded many
compositions and has specialized in works by English
composers. She has also recorded the works of Bernhard
Crusell, C. M. Weber and various French composers. Currently,

she teaches at the Royal College of Music.

75

A contemporary of Emma Johnson, Michael Collins (b.
1962) also began his clarinet success while very young.
Beginning at age thirteen, he studied with David Hamilton at
the Junior Department of the Royal College of Music until he
was eighteen. From 1975 to 1980, Collins was a member of the
National Youth Orchestra which acts somewhat as a training
orchestra for young musicians. In 1978, at the age of
sixteen, Collins won the woodwind division of the BBC Young
Musician of the Year and won the Leeds National Competition
when eighteen. Beginning in 1980, Collins studied with Thea
King at the Royal College of Music, but had to leave after
two years because of performance commitments.

Collins is known as a chamber and orchestral musician.
He has been a member of the Nash Ensemble, principal
clarinetist of the Philharmonia Orchestra and is a member of
the London Symphonietta. Speaking about his clarinet playing,
Thea King states:

He’s not just a wind player blasting through the notes
when he plays. A lot of people think his clarinet
playing isn’t perfect or sophisticated enough or [they]
don’t think he’s got a rich enough sound. He can tackle
anything. People write the most hair-raising stuff for

him; he can play anything.105
King also describes Collins as being a virtuoso pianist as

well as a clarinetist:

When he was in college, he sort of kept [his piano
playing] quiet since it was a second study. But, he was
studying the late Beethoven sonatas as a kid, and was
just not letting on how many hours a day he was
practicing at the piano which was considerable, of
course. Many more than the clarinet.106

 

1“ King, interview by author, 23 July 2000.

76

King has made mention of several younger English players
and former students of hers who are likely to be prominent in
the future. One such clarinetist is Robert Plane, who studied
privately with King while attending Bristol University. He
also attended the Royal Academy of Music. He is currently a
member of the BBC Welsh Orchestra.

Lyndsey Marsh is another clarinetist who is now
beginning to make a name for herself. Before studying at the
Guildhall School with King, she attended Cambridge
University. She was a member of the European Youth Orchestra
which provided her with much exposure to the playing styles
on the continent. She has auditioned for various top-level
orchestras, such as the BBC Welsh Orchestra, and has been one
of the finest competitors. Recently, she became a member of
the Manchester Symphony Orchestra.

Another player King cites is Barnaby Robson. After
attending the Guildhall School, Robson went to the Julliard
School of Music on a Fullbright Scholarship and studied with
Charlie Neidich. While there, he won the school’s annual
concerto competition and played Aaron Copland’s Concerto for
Clarinet at Lincoln Center. With English clarinetist Anthony
Pay, Robson studied period instruments (the ”yellow
clarinet") and performed with orchestras such as the
Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment and the English Baroque
Soloists. Currently, Robson is a professor at the Royal
Northern College of Music in Manchester and is principal
clarinet of the Philharmonia Orchestra.

Thea King as well as Pamela Weston are encouraged by
younger players who become successful and hold many common

opinions about clarinet playing and teaching. At one time

77

they considered opening a wind instruments specialist school
together. Although this never materialized, they did
collaborate on other occasions. For example, in 1984 they
gave presentations at the International Clarinet Congress in
Denver and for the BBC in celebration of the bicentenary of
Heinrich Baermann’s birth.

In the introduction to Clarinet Virtuosi of Today,
Weston states, “A musician’s life is a happy life and a
rewarding one."107 Both King and Weston have focused their
careers on areas that were important to them and where they
felt they could make the most impact. As a result, they have
received a great amount of satisfaction. Their work will
continue to be significant and influential for future

generations of players worldwide.

 

‘°’ Weston, Clarinet Virtuosi of Today, 17.

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Appendix A

Transcript of Interview taken with
Thea King at her home in
London, England on July 23, 2000

Tape One, Side One

Andrea Cheeseman: I would like to begin by talking about your
start as a musician. First, am I correct that your birthdate
is December 26th, 1925.

Thea King: Right, 1925. Yes, I don’t know if you have read
the summary, really, of everything, in the [New Grove
Dictionary of Music and Musicians]. Do you have Groves
Dictionary in America? It talks about my education.
Basically, my mom played piano very well. She came from a
Germanic American family. And, she taught me to play at about
the age of four or five and I was able to read music before I
went to school, I think.

AC: Was she a teacher?

TK: Oh no, she was a retiring Germanic housewife. She never
followed any kind of career. She got married. She was one of
eleven children, the tenth of eleven actually. So, when she
grew up, she had to get out and earn her living, which she
did as a secretary. And, because her father was from
Koenigsberg and was crazy about music,mhe was actually a
furniture designer, carpenter, whatever you want to call it.
He spent his evenings going to the opera and that kind of
thing and loved all his daughters to play something. So, my
mom learned to play piano, and taught my sister and myself at
a very early age. But there was nothing sort of pressurized
about [the music lessons].

AC: mnot formal training.

TK: Yeah, like that. And, I took all the musical exams, as
usual, which I did better than most of the others in school.
I eventually passed on to a school that was highly academic,
so I was doing maths and French to a very advanced level.
However, I stuck out as someone who really, to my parents,
[music was] all I wanted to do.

AC: So, at an early age, you knew that was what you wanted to
do?

TK: Yes, at seventeen that was. I just dug my heels in and

79

said, “No, I don’t want to be an accountant.” My mother
wanted me to be an accountant or in the civil service,
something really safe that I’d have a pension and children.
But, they realized it was all I really wanted to do. They
were really good; they said, ”Well, ok." The school said,
”Too bad really, but hope it goes well.” It was that kind of
farewell. ”Good luck with it.”

By which time the recorder had come into vogue. Little kids
bought recorders. The school orchestra did not have any wind
players, just mostly a few scrawny string players. The lady
who ran the orchestra was very “go ahead". She wanted to make
it into something, and she thought I could play recorder.
Then she said, ”Well, wouldn't you like to play a proper
instrument, a wood instrument? I believe that one of my
colleagues here who teaches piano has a clarinet tucked away
somewhere." This was an old sort army-type instrument, simple
system. So, she let me have a look at that.

And, just about that time, just before I left school I
suppose, by extraordinary piece of luck, because the war was
on,mthe BBC Symphony Orchestra, which was the only the
orchestra that could really survive and keep all its members
without them being called up, (they were especially
privileged)mThey landed in the town where I was at school, in
Bedford. They had been evacuated when the war started to
Bristol. And Bristol, being an important port, was just
bombed absolutely badly at the docks there. So, they were
very worried about the BBC Symphony being there. So, they
chose another town in England which was over the other side,
the east side (in the Midlands). And that’s where I was at
school. And, some of the daughters of some of the players
came to school. One or two of those [daughters] played wind
instruments. Indeed, Thurston’s daughter — you have heard of
Frederick Thurston?

AC: Yes.

TK: And, his daughter, who is about my age, played naturally
very well. She didn’t read music very much. But I was there
to do the counting. So, I sort of somehow humbled along on
the clarinet which I learned from Thurston’s second called
Clarke, Ralph Clarke.

AC: So, he was your first teacher?

TK: So, he was my first teacher, but you know, it was a bit
of a lark really because I was mostly interested trying to
become a better pianist. So, the clarinet came in handy,
because in those days you had to try and play a second
instrument. So, I managed to get into the college alright. It
wasn’t so competitive in those days.

80

Anyway, everything, you see, was sort of makeshift during the
war. Many of the men had gone, so many of the college
professors would have to join up. And, there was Thurston in
the BBC, stuck out in Bedford which was fifty miles from
London. Well, that was a long, long ways in those days. The
trains were very disturbed by the need for the lines to be
used to carry ammunitions. Then there were airraids going on.
If there was a raid on, then the train had to stop because it
could be seen traveling from the air, particularly because in
those days it was coal, and you could see the sparks and all
that.

So, those guys [of the BBC Orchestra] did, one or two of
them, keep their teaching up at Royal College. Thurston had
been there ten or twenty years I suppose, and didn’t want to
give up the teaching completely. It was the only teaching he
did because he was very busy in the orchestra and doing quite
a bit of chamber music. So, by that time, I was in London,
and [the BBC] were traveling up to Bedford. But, I didn’t
live in London. My hometown was Hitchin, which was another
town in the Bedford area; that's why Bedford was chosen as a
school. So, we just had lessons every two weeks or 30.

AC: This is when you went to college?

TK: When I went to the college. I went on a scholarship so
that was useful.

AC: And, this is the Royal College of Music?

TK: Yes. And, I also had a lot of useful experiences playing
piano for the lessons when [Thurston] did come up to the
college. It was quite an event. Instead of having individual
lessons as you normally would have had, he said, ”Look, you
know, it’s all chaotic. You're not getting fulltime
education." He said, ”I don’t mind if everybody comes in.” He
had only, what, I suppose nine or ten pupils. “For only that
day that I am there, once a fortnight, if you’re lucky, you
can all come in and just barge in and out as you like so that
you can listen to each other’s lessons, and that way you
won’t feel so deprived because of the war."

And so, I sat around all the time just longing to be asked to
play the piano because — I [had] learned all these [clarinet]
pieces from the piano perspective first, you see. And anyway,
I was very much a beginner on the clarinet.

AC: Did you still take lessons on the clarinet at the time
while you were accompanying?

TK: Well, my lesson was a bit scrappy. It usually came at the

end as I was only a second study anyway and was not serious
about it. Sometimes, because my home was only, what, sixteen

81

miles from Hitchin to Bedford, he would let me go across to
his house for lessons, and then he would perhaps arrange a
ticket to the BBC concert that night because all the
broadcasting was done from Bedford. They had public concerts
which they broadcasted as well. So, I got a little bit of
extra, wonderful thrills and experience.

And also, those players in the orchestra were doing lots of
charity concerts. People used to give a lot of concerts for
the Red Cross at the time. That’s where I first heard Brahms
Quintet and Bax Sonata, Mozart Quintet. The players used to
do these for nothing because it helped the war effort. And it
was a real thrill for Bedford to hear these world class
musicians playing all of these top works.

AC: Probably the first experience for many people.

TK: Yes! Yes, absolutely. One or two people who I met later
in life, who were in the forces at the time and had attended
this concert, still remembered that Brahms Quintet. It was a
string quartet called the Griller who later went to America
and eventually literally immigrated after the war and did
very well there. They came back here and didn’t really work
as a quartet again, but did a lot of coaching at the Royal
Academy. So, life is a series of extraordinary coincidences
and pick-ups.

So, there weren’t as many concerts going on, particularly in
London, at that point, but my mom was very good as I was to
travel a lot from Hitchin to London when I went to college.
That was four hour’s journey at least every time I went which
was usually about four or five times a week. I used to get up
at six o’clock in the morning.

AC: That’s quite a lot traveling.

TK: And, these trains were of course very often not heated
because they needed the coal to heat homes and other things.
We just took a lot of clothing. In the nighttime, we slept.
There weren’t any compartments at all; we just sort of sat
opposite to somebody else, just the two seats. There was one
light in the middle, and they fixed up a kind of blackout
thing so that it emitted one, just one ray of light for that
side. So, I would sit with a book and use that time for doing
harmony, counterpoint, and exercises. So, those four hours
weren't really wasted! And not to mention, I couldn’t get
extra sleep since it wasn’t warm enough! And, so it went.

The war ended before I left college and things started to
improve, actuallymexcept for the heating! [Laughing]

AC: What year did you start at the Royal College?

82

TK: '43 it was.
AC: When did you graduate and finish?

TK: ’47. Those days, the training was actually three years.
If you were very lucky, you were allowed to stay for a fourth
if the war ended in time: Otherwise, you just had to join up
and go into the forces of some sort. I was lucky in that I
didn't caught in that one, because it ended just in time.

And then there was the business of incorporating all those
students who’d served time in the forces. They had to come
back and complete —-a lot of them had been torn off from what
they were doing in universities and colleges. So, you really
had to make a convincing case for staying on [at the college]
because you had to make room for all these men were coming
back, you see.

In the meantime, we’d had more experience in my time, we
females. This was really the beginning of female wind playing
for England. The war opened the doors for us, at least to be
admitted in orchestras in college. And before I left, in
order to get more orchestral experience, I begged to be
allowed to take clarinet more seriously and to make it, what
we call, an ”equal first study." So, they did let me do that.
So, then I got a chance to play lots of times in the
orchestra at college, and that was great fun.

As I say, then the men came back. People like Neville
Marriner, have you heard of him? Academy of St. Martin in the
Fields?

AC: I believe I have.

TK: Yes, he was one of those who went away. [He was] a bit
older than me, so he had to go and fight. When he came back,
they had to make room for him. He wasn’t conducting though,
so he played the fiddle.

But then, although I didn’t realize it (the fact that things
were starting to revive),msome of the orchestras which had
been on hard times, were able to collect back their players
and start to make a bit of headway in giving concerts again.
So, things were actually opening back up again.

The new thing that started, really, was teaching wind
instruments to young people in schools. So, though I didn't
want to do that at all, the piano was not so much use to me
because I had never been a high-flyer technically (the
teaching was nothing like as good as it is now), and [I] lost
so much time in practice as I was sitting on the train
instead of sitting at the piano. I was always a sort of
useful reader in [piano], but there was no way I could

83

compete with the piano world, as it was then developing, even
as a ensemble or an accompanist player as I would have liked
to have done.

So, the clarinet, feeble as I was on that,mat least there was
a bit of teaching going on, so I picked up teaching in
schools. I used to get on buses and trains and go around
London like you’ve done today, only far out, you know. I
would have three students at one, four at another, one at
another place —

AC: Oh, dear!

TK: — and eat my sandwiches. And then when I finished [at one
school], I'd get on the train and go out teaching again!
Because, I didn’t live in London. I was not really earning
anything, just ”peanuts” as we say. So, I was just forced to
pick up bits and pieces.

AC: So, about how many students did you have when you were
just starting.

TK: Probably twenty all together. But the Royal College has a
junior department. On Saturdays, they still have an all-day
educational program for talented children. And, when they go
along there, they get a piano lesson and oral training, and
they make up some sort of orchestral ensemble, and they stay
there all day. So, they needed teachers for that as well. So,
I picked up a Saturday’s morning worth of teaching there.
And, those, of course, were more talented children, so that I
didn’t feel at all adequate or keen on this whole thing. I
mainly just wanted to play, even though I had no hopes of
playing clarinet in London.

But the other thing that happened which started to revive
after the warmWe had a large continental population who came
over in the ’303 from Germany or Austria. And, these were
musical groups who held parties and were used to playing
together from their youth. And a few of these [people] got to
know us ex-students in thatmsomehow or other the kind of
social set including one’s old mates. We got together and
tried out things. [We] made a wind octet. It was always an
evening party that went on into the night. Schubert Octet you
know, with people like Erich Grfinberg who has since become
very famous. He was a student who had been interrupted in his
studies and come across as a seventeen year old and continued
here. And, amongst these was one of my pals Colin Davis the
conductor, and Gervase de Peyer the clarinetist. we formed
little orchestras and groups and things. we played
concertsmsomehow we sort of managed to get experience of
playing and making some kind of group together.

AC: 80, you did perform?

84

TK: We performed a bit, yes. Colin would play first clarinet,
and I would play second. Sometimes we went down to choral
societies in smaller towns that needed orchestral backing:
schools, colleges, societies. And, so it was a kind of
network of musicians who were just looking for something to
do, to play whilst earning their living at any odd jobs. Some
had connections with theatre work. And, then various chamber
orchestras arose out of this. The English Chamber Orchestra,
to which I was connected with for about forty years, really
began as one of those groups of musicians who played
together. This big freelance thing which I suppose is not so
common in the States, only in places like New York. Most
[English] musicians don’t have a regular salary.

One of my college pals was a lady called Judy Wilkins who
married Charles Mackerras, the conductor. They’re still great
friends of mine. She was a very good clarinet player, a
mainline clarinetist, not just a second study who had been in
the ”Wrens" [The Women’s Royal National Service]. She had
done her bit of national service. So, she was one of those
who came back. And, we learned a lot from those people who
had a bit more experience than us. Charles Mackerras was
playing the oboe. He had just come from Australia after the
war. He was playing in the Sadlers Wells Opera Company which
has now become the second opera company in London at the
Coliseum. You’ve hardly been here at all. Have you been to
London before this time?

AC: No.

TK: No, I thought not. There is so much in London to know
about. Anyway, [Mackerras] was playing oboe, also doing a bit
of assistant conducting already at that time. He was very
bright at a young age. And Judy auditioned to play the
clarinet because suddenly the opera company had a bit more
future and a bit more money. They wanted to put an extra
clarinet in the orchestra. They only had two during the war
because it was very reduced. So, they wanted another one, you
see. So, I went to London to play piano for her audition, and
I think it was suggested that because I played the clarinet a
bit, I would also play the clarinet, which I did very badly.
Anyway, Judy got the job, and that was very nice.

Then by an extraordinary chance Judy decided to give up [the
position] because Judy married Charles and became pregnant.
Then, the lady [Eileen Tranmer] who replaced Judy happened to
be the British women’s chess champion, of all things, had to
go to a competition in Russia, or something. (This is all a
sign of how all things were waking up all over the place.
People were moving around from their jobs.) I got to play at
[Sadlers Wells] and in the Festival of Britain here, they
decided they wouldmagain an expansion. So, I got a job there

85

as first clarinet.

So, the piano sort of took a back seat, except that I was
also doing a bit of accompanying for Thurston and his pupils.
He and I kept in touch after I left college. I did
[accompanying] and the Sadlers Well job.

So, I played opera, absolutely unrehearsed and Charlie
Mackerras was really good to me because he was learning his
way too. He was having to conduct operas for the first time
without any rehearsal.

It became famous for ballet; we played ballet as well. Some
nights it was opera; some nights it was ballet. And,
[Mackerras] and I used to study our parts together. It was
amusing that he hadn’t conducted before and I hadn't played.
I would take the clarinet and he’d take the score and we’d go
into a quiet pub somewhere. He would sort of practice beating
while I sang my bit. He would then cue me in, sort of things
like that!

AC: Good practice!

TK: So, we learned the business together. That was typical of
how ramshackle everything was after the war.

AC: Did you just attend the one college, the Royal College?
TK: Yes.

AC: Maybe you can decipher this. In the book Who’s Who of
International.Musicians-—

TK: Oh yes, those degrees. Yes. That [ARCM] is called the
“Associate of Royal College." That I did as a pianist. I got
that very early on. It was a questionmI was just performing
three pieces. It didn’t involvemyou know, there were no other
things perhaps, I can’t remember if there was any theory
exam. And, it was ’47 that I decided (that was just before I
left) I would try to get one of those for the clarinet. That
one [FRCM] is an honor that you are given from the head of
the thing.

I also won the top medal called the Tagore which is for the,
so-called, most deserving student of the year. Some rich
Indian who gave money for this award a hundred years ago. Of
course, we just had a celebration of the Tagore. It is just
won by one person each year. And, in those days, it was
alternatively female and male. I think I have a picture of
myself at that time. [She pulls out a photograph.] It was
presented by the Royal Family. This is Princess Elizabeth as
she was called. That’s our queen. Yes, I think that’s the
Tagore because I was the onemI won another award the

86

following year too.
AC: That’s nice.

TK: Now, they split that award into two, so each year there
is a male and female winner.

AC: What was this honor (FRCM) called?

TK: Fellow. And, I have since been honored by two of the
other colleges. You don't necessarily have to have worked or
been at these colleges. They are like degrees that are
granted just to musicians in the world of music that they
feel they want to, sort of, honor in some way. Also Cambridge
does it; [they] dress you up in gownsmand, you’re entitled to
put that after your name. So, FRCM is the first of those I
got. But it’s got nothing to do, particularly, with the fact
that I studied there. Although it might have some connection
with the fact that I had beenmstarted doing some teaching
there later on. Because in this country, you can’t rely on
earning your living necessarily as a player, particularly as
a female. So, I used to try to keep up with everything that I
had ever gotten. There were bits of piano playing, bits of
teaching.

AC: Just keeping all options open?

TK: Somehow to, you know, to have an avenue to turn to
because life is so terribly uncertain.

Anyway, the Sadlers wells thing could have gone on for more.
I suppose, it was two years that I was there. It was
wonderful getting a chance to play. I thought I could pitch
in, as I got better at the notes and that sort of thing. So
that really made a kind of professional clarinetist out of
me, I suppose. I could go along, and sort of not get lost.

I had also been, as I said, still in touch with Thurston,
accompanying him, helping him. His wife had died, meanwhile.
I mentioned to you that he had this daughter that was a
friend at school. She also went to the Royal College. And his
wife died justmwas it three weeks after I left college? I am
not exactly sure. So, those of students who had known him
just, sort of, tried to help out, and saw quite a bit of the
daughter. And, then in 1953, we decided to get married. And,
I then left Sadlers Wells and said, ”Ok, that’s that. That’s
my career over. I am to be a housewife."

AC: Why did you think that?
TK: Because that was what everybody did; though, I think that

not as many people as I imagined. It was the sort of normal
thing to do, particularly with my background, I think.

87

Because my mother was very, sort of, traditional and her
ideas were old-fashioned as she had been at the end of the
family. You know what I mean? Shemher mother had been forty-
plus when she was born. Being Germanic as well, feeling
really not British at all, my grandmother. She really hated
living over here. She came over because, as I said, my
grandfather was German. He had been working at Indianapolis;
they got married in Indianapolis. And, he was to do with
choosing the wood. You know Evansville, Indiana? That’s where
he would go in order to select wood for his brother’s
furniture factory in New York. They had a factory there, and
it was doing ok. So, somewhere around the turn of the
century, the twentieth Century, they decided to open a
factory in London. And, that’s how my grandfather came to be
here, and my mother too. She went to school in America, in
Indianapolis. But it was very much a Germanic community
there. I think you still have that, really, if you think of
Milwaukee —

AC: Yes.

TK: -and then Michigan with the Dutch and the cows and all
that. People do. I think that has been America’s strength:
that it’s able to preserve those communities, and yet all
belong to one nation. We cannot achieve that here. Here,
there are pockets. Where I live, three doors away there are
Arabs, and Irish, and both types of Africans and Caribbeans.
We’ve just got everything all in the same little area of
London.

AC: Was there much tension among ethnic groups?

TK: Not too bad. We managed fairly well, not really well
enoughmbut more tolerant than many places in the world at the
moment, when you see what’s going on in the Balkansmand in
Ireland, but I think it is a matter of temperament. They’re
very much a good people.

As I say, it was very, you knowmon Mondays you do the
washing. On Tuesdays, if you are lucky, they are dry enough;
you’d iron them. On Wednesday’s you’d do the shopping; then
you bake, and all that sort of stuff. And I thought ”well I
suppose, that is all it’s about."

And, I wondered, "Why did I go and do all that schoolwork?
Why did I learn clarinet and French? It seems like I’m not
going to use any of that. Must I just throw the music away?
But, aren’t I lucky. I’ll be involved in music,” as Thurston
was really, very busy.

He had stayed with the BBC during the war, but the moment the

war was over, he wanted to get out and try his luck doing
other things. Because composers were beginning to write for

88

him. The BBC attracted a lot of composers, of course, because
they wanted to get their music done, and he would meet them
all when they came. Things like the Vaughn Williams. I heard
him doing the first performance of the Fifth Symphony in
Bedford. So, Vaughan Williams was there and Thurston - who I
called ”Jack” though he was really called Frederick-— he was
so keen to, sort of, get into more contemporary music. And,
they wanted to write for him. There was no question of
commissioning. ”Oh, I’ll write you a piece,” you know. This
is how these pieces came about. And, he was also performing a
lot of pieces that were not necessarily dedicated to him.
That would be the Bax Sonata that was written for a friend of
Bax’s. But, a few of them were special things that were for
him. So, I was very happy to be in the background, trying to
support that for him, taking him to the halls, helping him
try new pieces, finding reeds.

But, he’d been a very heavy smoker as everybody was at the
time, and started to have persistent, what we thought was
bronchitis, which turned out to be to be cancer. And, he had
an operation, as they did in those days. They removed one
lung, but [he] only lasted a year after that, which again was
common experience. But, they never would tell their patients
that they had cancer, that they had no chance. And, they [the
doctors] wouldn’t even, in so many words, tell the nearest
relative or wife, which I was very annoyed about at the time.

So as I said, that was really short-lived. And, I had not
been seriously doing any music, but occasionally there would
be a call for me to perhaps play second clarinet or some job
that he was asked to do, or to play piano perhaps at some
school recital or something, which I did for him. I would
accompany his pupils at home. But, you know, [music] wasn’t a
serious thing.

So, then when he died I had to think ”well, what am I going
to do now?" I was very interested in health and health foods,
and then the whole thing of cancer really got me intrigued. I
had no idea that I would necessarily get back into music
again.

But, people were very kind. There were friends who remembered
that I might like to do something. Somebody asked me to go on
a tour in the north of England with a ballet company, just an
orchestra of about ten or twelve people. So, I thought, ”I
might as well do that." I thought, "How peculiar, to be doing
this after all."

But, many of those friends meantime, sort of, got involved in
chamber orchestras that were just starting to actually earn.
And, that’s really the way it’s been since. I played in an
orchestra called London Mozart Players. You will find all
these things in the Groves Dictionary.

89

Thurston had been at the Royal College for some years; so,
that left a huge hole when he died because he was a very much
loved teacher. One of his ex—pupils succeeded. Then the
clarinet population grew, perhaps as a result of all the
school teaching that was going on. At one time, I can hardly
believe this now because it was ridiculous, there were
actually forty clarinet players at the Royal College, and it
was not all that big an institution. I suppose there were
four hundred students at that time. And, that was much too
big a percentage to allow in because there would be no chance
of finding work afterwards. But they needed more teachers, so
they asked me if I’d like to take on two or three. In fact,
it was one of my students that I had privately whoawhen he
went to the college they said to him, "Who would like to
learn with?" He said, “Well, I don’t know any of the people
you’ve got new, but I really I’ve really been happy with my
teacher outside." And they said, “Who is that?" “Thea."
“Well, that gives me an idea. Perhaps we can arrangem" So
with that I was given two or three pupils to start with. That
grew to about eighteen, I think.

AC: And, how many other teachers were there?

TK: There were about two other teachers, doing clarinet, at
least. Call it three because there was still, in those days,
second study clarinetists. That large group of clarinetists
didn’t include both first and second studies, but of course
most of them were hoping to earn a living.

So, that went on for about twenty—five years, my connection
to the college. I gradually cut down on numbers because I got
too busy with playing. Then, I got fed up with it because the
college was starting to get all involved with administration
and paperwork and was sort of, I thought, taking up too much
time and attention from actual music making.

Little did I guess that it was going to escalate even more.
Anyway, I said, ”I have had enough. I’ve been here long
enough." They said, ”Oh, thought you were part of the
furniture here!"

AC: What year did you leave?

TK: ’87. So, I did not do very much teaching. I was busy with
odd bits of solo things and may even have got going on a bit
of recording, I think, by then. But, then I had been only
away for only a year when another college approached me where
I still strag along called the Guildhall School. I knew the
director whenmhis name was Philip Jones of the Philip Jones
Brass Ensemble. So, he persuaded me: “Just take a few pupils
and see how you get on. we’re trying be more modern here. It
isn’t a type of traditional place.”

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AC: How many students do you have now?

TK: Well, I have three hours a week, but that is split
amongst more than three students. I do little bits, withmeven
though there are quite a few across the board, mostly post-
grads and advanced ones, so that I am not committed to
running in there every week. I’ve got it organized so that I
don’t have to be over there very often, but ten times a term.
But, inevitably, one gets involved in other things as well. I
may have projects coaching chamber music.

But, it is very badly paid. I must tell you. Teaching, and
education in general, in this country is never paid enough.
That’s why we’re in such a mess. They’re talking now about
new schemes like performance related pay. Everybody’s against
that. Teaching and nursing and the police all the things that
we’re in trouble with, are very badly paid. People have no
self-respect. All the money goes into the administration,
paperwork, and the computer side. The government seems to
require this kind of paperwork evidence for the fact that
people are doing something worthwhile. And, it’s all self—
assessment which means nothing at all. "I can do it; here it
is." But, how can you describe it on paper?

AC: That’s impossible.

TK: Anyway, where have we gotten to? I’ve just sort of been
really gathering all these ends and trying to get some way of
earning a living and then getting married, and then the
mainline [for me] was just playing in orchestras, freelance.
Many of whose [orchestra] names I’ve forgotten because
everything was burgeoning, you know.

But, the BBC has been one of the biggest educators in my
life. We used to have a Radio 3 music program which was
really second to none in the world, and it wasn’t just
playing records. There were really not many in those days.

AC: So, were there regular programs?

TK: Yes, there were wonderful programs with a large staff of
producers, many of whom were composers who had various
projects of music that they wanted to do, often music by
unusual composers who they felt were neglected. [The
producers] were perhaps given little grants to travel around
to do some research on that. And, I knew one or two of these.
So, I got asked to play all sorts of wonderful things. And,
the head of music changed, and somebody came in who was crazy
about Schoenberg and the twelve tone school. So, we had
nothing but that for awhile. So, I was engaged in playing all
sorts of that: Pierrot Lunaire, even without a voice, without
a conductor. Schoenberg’s Suite. we did forty-five hours of

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rehearsal on that. Unpaid! Various chamber groups that I
belonged to did contemporary and mainline and neglected
stuff. That was really the thing, I suppose, that triggered
me into wanting to record some of these pieces that I met
through the BBC or sniffed around and found out about. But,
now all that’s changed again. It’s all got to be user-
friendly, dumbing down and all those terms.

AC: I can’t imagine Schoenberg being broadcast much now.

TK: No, you get a good spread, I must say. But it’s not the
programs being made for the specific broadcasts as it used to
be. Because, meantime, in those twenty-thirty years, a lot of
those pieces have been recorded anyway. So all we got to do
is put them on.

I hope you might get a chance to go to the Proms while you
are here. Do you think you will?

AC: I was looking at amdo you have a program of that? I saw
an advertisement.

TK: Yes, you can buy a booklet, but I’ve got a booklet.

Whereas most people feel that the symphony orchestra is dying
(as they feel in your country as well), we have this six week
season every year of a concert every night and usually more
than one, contemporary and everything. It’s the biggest music
festival in the worlmehere are four BBC Orchestras:
Scotland, Manchester, Wales, London. The main one being in
Londonm

That’s what goes through the summer. It’s a funny mixture
because you say to yourself: ”0k, there’s all that audience
of people. Where do they go in the wintertime?" Most of the
[winter] concerts hardly sell at all. I think they love to go
together and stand together and cheer and shout. Clap
together for the man who opens the piano lid, all the silly
traditions.

AC: Can you tell me more about the BBC and the various
broadcasts? Are they mostlymmaybe it’s changed, live or
recorded performances?

TK: Many of them were live with an audience in the studio.
They had a weekly, what they called, ”Tuesday Invitation
Concert" where anyone could apply for complementary tickets.
That got them an audience of mostly interested people who’d
sit in the studio. And, perhaps some sort of famous expert on
Schoenberg or somebody who had come from the continent and
conduct one of the other orchestras. They would put a group
together. Very often the BBC would actually, sort of, arrange
the groups. It wasn’t that you had a group of chamber music

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friends and you applied to do this. Again, it was very much
the grapevine thing where —

AC: You were invited to play?

TK: Yes, you were invited to play: "Well, we’d like the
Rheinberger Sonata. Who would you like to play with?" “Of
course I would like to play with my partner really." ”Well,
we’ve got a cellist coming in to do a trio (perhaps by
Zemlinsky) and he’s got his own players so we will have to,
sort of, decide which one. Anyway you will discuss it all."

But, I did belong to also a group that did a lot of
contemporary music called the Vesuvius Ensemble. So, we would
often get invited to do a whole concert or perhaps just
suggest some works that we’d been playing in concert venues
around the country. Schoenberg Chamber Symphony which Berg
arranged for flute, clarinet, violin, cello, and piano, we’d
been doing that a lot. I said, “Oh, I’d love to have that.
You don’t often get groups that have got that." So what would
you put with that? Brahms Trio? And then they would concoct
these [programs]. They were often thought out months advance,
of course, and were planned to fit in with other things that
were going on.

[Looking at a BBC Radio 3 program guide]

TK: So you can see, there is a lot of interesting things
going on.mAnd that’s a concert that was recorded at a
festival in London earlier on in the month. Because London
has many different festivals within itmalso out of town
festivals like the big one in Aldeburgh where Ben Britten was
the organizer. So, I did all of those sort of things as well.

AC: How many times did you perform, approximately, for the
BBC?

TK: Hundreds, literally. And also concerto engagements as
well. I would perhaps go down to Wales to play with the BBC
National Orchestra for their lunchtime public concerts. And,
that would be recorded, so that would go out live, but also
you might get a reproduction fee when they would put it out
another time. Life is just a sort of pattern of all these
different things.

Throughout the summer, we have lots of towns who have their
own festivals. This last weekend I went to two different ones
and the week before as well.

[About the Proms]

Quite a lot of the concerts are now televised, and they have
a commentator explain it all. They do quite well, I must say.
The first night and the last night are the great, sort of,
rave scenes.

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AC: During your teaching, what sort of repertoire do you
concentrate on? Any avant garde or contemporary music?
Orchestral excerpts at all?

TK: Yes, of the orchestra excerpts, I've done a lot. The
students have an exam in the spring, and they have to play
excerpts and also certain pattern of technical work, scales.
Scales and excerpts happen in the spring.

AC: Every spring does each student play?

TK: Yes, every February. Yes. And that’s verymactually, I’ll
show you a syllabus, in fact you can take it back away.

AC: That’d be great.

TK: This is used for the whole college. You see, it’s a very
small section of actual repertoire pieces which they do in
the summer, plus one study. So really, they have two exams a
year, and the summer one is the important one. They get
marked.

AC: When is the summer one?

TK: That's just happened in the first week of July. And, the
main degree recitals happen in the last week of June.

AC: Is the school year-round then?

TK: The school goes in three sessions per year: Autumn,
Spring, and Summer. It starts in September, and it just
finished this last week until September, the eleventh I think
it is. And yours, I know, is very different from that.

AC: Yes.

[Looking at the syllabus]

TK: So, there is a list of the excerpts: Year One and what
they have to do in their scales and suchmand the spring
exammand that’s jazzmand the end of years. Very little
really: one of those studies and one compulsory (Stamitz) and
a choice of studies. The exam lasts about twenty minutes.
Then you get to the second year.

AC: Similar things, just a little different?

TK: They’ve got to do one from memory and onemjust two pieces
then, just a study. But all of the gobbledygook, what we call
academic workmwhich is really honestlymit’s, ah, just
pretend! Because the government just said, ”Oh, these people
just have been playing their instruments all day. That’s not
good enough.

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AC: You can’t be learning anything!

TK: They say, ”No, no no. You’ve got to have something that
compares with a university." We could never do that.

AC: Why?

TK: We don’t have the quality of intellect. To do that sort
thing, you've got to be very bright. Anyway, that is all that
rubbish. And that is the Post Grad thing.

AC: How many years is typically the undergraduate degree?

TK: It’s new four years, that degree. It used to be three,
Now it’s four years; so they have spread it out.

End of Tape One, Side One

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Tape One, Side TWo

TK: There is a Master of Music degree which is like a post-
grad course. So, they do a little bit of: prepare recitals
and projects during the year, dissertations, probably things
similar to what you’re doing. There is a doctorate as well.
That could involvemsome might have to write a composition as
well. I’m not sure.

AC: For musicians to find jobs, do they need to have these
post-degrees?

TK: No. They do not. They do if they’re going into
administration. With playing, it’s: “Come on, how do you
sound?" [Laughing]

AC: And not, "Let’s see your degree."

TK: Yes, finding out where the jobs are and when there are
going to be auditions. And watching to see who’s going to
fall off their perch next, and getting in the queue. And, you
have to remember that now anybody in Europe, in the common
market can come in and have a job here. We’ve got now two
principal clarinets in Scotland, one from Rome and the other
from France. And that is a big, big change from what it used
to be. We had a very strong musician's union before, and the
British people would join that. But, now it’s highly
different.

AC: How’s that?
TK: All the string players are from all over the place.
AC: In your opinion, has that hurt or helped the system?

TK: Well, now we have to compete much harder to get a job.
The continental people are going to push us, and we are, to
put it mildly. But, those two players [from Rome and France]
are very good, I have say it. We’re just not doing a good
enough job really, here. Brits were always held back.

But the sad thing is that everybody’s beginning sound to a
bit alike. There used be a great difference between the
French and Germans for instance. The British were usually
going in some stupid direction.

AC: What do you mean by that?!

TK: But now,mI was on the jury of this huge competition, the
Munich Competition, you know. The Munich Competition is the
biggest one; Munich and Geneva are the two big competitions
in Europe. And, they feature an instrument each year. Two
years ago, it was the clarinet’s turn, and I was chosen to be

96

on the jury. There were twelve of us. Everybody was from a
different country, the jurors. And, indeed the competitors, I
think they had 250 entrants. They selected a few, a lot by
tape, I think. In the end, we had to listen to eighty or
ninety of them. It took about ten days to get through this
competition.

Do you know, you couldn’t tell the difference at all whether
they were playing on the German system or French system
[clarinet]? I could hardly believe this. Maybe people go to
Germany to study because they seem to give scholarships to
foreigners. Give education. That was really something. And a
whole lot really tiny little oriental girls played the
clarinet, and most of them on Boehm system. But, you really
wouldn’t know the difference. Even the Germans that did this,
they’re so tremendously traditional. It’s not true of the
younger generation at all. They were all technically
absolutely proficient. Some of the best players were from New
York. But, the majority of the jury didn’t seem to like the
way they played musically. [They had] some sort of very, I
thought, narrow minded view of what music should be. we
couldn’t agree on anything at that jury.

In the end, the prize should’ve gone to some player who was
ready to step out — you know it was up to the age thirteen. I
think a couple of eighteen year old boys got a third prize
each. They never awarded the first. They never awarded the
second. They don't ever award the first anyway; they save
money if they don’t actually depart with it, you see. Anyway,
these two boys were very promising. Because they hadn’t
developed much particular personality of their own in their
playingmeverybody’s similarly alright, aren’t they? So, you
didn’t get a star player come out of that at all. And,
usually that happens.

AC: The older people might have more of their own personality
in playing.

TK: Sure. There was this guy from New York who’s bound to be
a Neidich pupil; most of them are. He had double breathing
and the lot. He didn’t take a breath from the beginning to
the end of the Brahms sonata he played. It didn’t sound very
natural that way! [Laughing]

AC: Yes, you do need to breathe a little!

TK: The Germans rubbed their hands and said ”Aah." Yes, yes,
it’s very interesting. So, that’s why it’s quite easy for
most Europeans to come over and get a job here if they play
well enough. So that’s what they’re doing. we’ve just got to
prepare our guys better to step up.

You are obviously interested in the educational system.

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AC: Yes, I was also interested if during your own teaching,
if there was a certain aspect that you stress, such as
musicality or technicality?

TK: At this stage, I’ve done a lot of turning up regularly.
You know, when I was at Royal College particularly those
twenty-five years, and really making sure I heard their
scales and having them do a study each week as well as some
particular piece of music they were working on. And the odd
excerpts, especially when they were coming up to exams. I’m
not a great lover of excerpts just for the sake of it,
padding through pages and pages of tutti stuff. But, I am
very keen that they should playmthey should really know
principal 30103 in the main symphonic repertoire, at least as
far as Brahmsmto know all those beautiful solos and slow
movements from memory. I go through the things that obviously
you play a lot for auditions Mendelssohn’s [Midsummer Night’s
Dream] Scherzo.

And so I reallymI was very strict, apparently more than other
professors, about being able to play scales because I think
that’s the basis of everything because of the musicianship
side of it, as well as agility. But most of all, I’ve always
been keenest on the repertoire and of complete knowledge of
pieces. Not just a photocopy of the clarinet part. That’s
just sends me screaming mad. It’s what the world has been
turning into nowadays.

AC: So, your piano background has helped you?

TK: Of course. I would never have gotten anywhere because I
am not a great technician [on the clarinet] because I started
too late at seventeen. But, I am interested in the piece as a
whole: the harmonic side of it, structure, phrasing, whether
it’s contemporary, or whatever it is. It makes no difference
at all. I want to know the complete thing. And, I want to
know other pieces by that composer as well, which I think is
where we fall down terribly, as clarinet players.

I wish that some of that had been studied with the sort of
language of the composer and echoes and references in his
clarinet pieces. You know, from all the other stuff he’d
written. For instance, I don't know how you can play the
Mozart pieces unless you’ve played most of the Mozart operas
or at least gotten to know them very well. Because it’s all
about opera on clarinet, particularly in the concerto.

AC: That’s true.
TK: And, most of those pieces, let’s face it, were dashed off

pretty quickly for one player or another and Weber worse than
any other. And the real music of those composers is in their

98

operas or their chamber works. Brahms in the chamber
worksawhen you think of playing a Brahms trio, if you don’t
know some of the piano trios or violin sonatas and the
symphonies and all that. To me, it’s all one, and you should
be all the time listening, listening, listening to these
pieces.

That’s why I have the "Radio Times"; I go through it and mark
it every week. I have a radio in the car and am listening all
the time. All night! The radio goes on through the night
here. Not all good quality, I have to tell you! Some of this
stuff is foreign tapes they get for nothing. [Looking through
the paper] There you are: Clarinet Concerto, Tuesday 25th
July, played at 12:10 a.m., and that might be very
interesting. That might be someone from Belarus, or
something, you see. That’s fascinating. And here’s a Der Hirt
auf dem Felsen the same night, 3:20. Possibly the same bloke,
but we don’t know who,mor lady. And, there’s another one,
Stamitz Clarinet Concerto. I don't wake up and listen to
those especially. If I happen to, then I find it fascinating.
I have a night journey!

So, I am in touch with everything that is going on all the
time. I think all professional musicians, or would be
professionals, have a duty to keep in touch. After all, you
suddenly close the door of the Guildhall; you walk out. “Now
I have to earn a living somewhere in this lot," and you don’t
know any of them.

[Looking at the paper]

Michael Duchek. Oh that’s good; he’s made good! I remember
hearing him as a student at an audition. I’ve been asked to
listen to lots of auditions and to go to exams for degrees at
other colleges. That’s how it is I got to be made aiwhat am.I
being made? A Fellow of the Guildhall School and Honorary
member of the Royal Academy of Music. These were all great
presentation things. Because we all do that you see. When you
have a degreemyou probably do the same thing. You might
engage somebody to come in from Ann Arbor to listen with a
clean ear to some of your degrees. Do you do that?

AC: Not for degrees. Every year there is a concerto
competition for the whole school, and they get outside people
to listen to the finals.

TK: Yes, I think that’s a good thing to do, and I find it’s
helped me out a lot. Sometimes, I must go up to Manchester
because we have a very big college up there, the Royal
Northern [College of Music] and another one in Birmingham.
They all have similar kind of courses, but they like to have
outside people to go in just to give them an innocent ear.
And, you learn from that about what they are teaching at that
college and in what ways it is better.

99

For instance, when I went to Royal College a few weeks ago, I
thought they have a good chamber music program there. They
seem to be well-rehearsed and know what they were doing. But
at our place, they can’t even get themselves together for a
lesson, let alonembut then they’ve just started a chamber
music scheme. Because, it's one of those, they all need to be
vying with each other, these colleges, to get out some
publicity stuff, saying “This term we’re gonna have ’so and
so’ and feature this composer. ’So-and-so’s’ coming. Hans
Werner Henze is coming over from Europe." They are so busy
with all this glitzy stuff which I am so against. I don’t
think it should be a part of education. You shouldn’t
havemone college shouldn’t be worrying about whether its
brochures are more glitzy than another one. I think it’s
crazy. However, that is the way the world has gone. And I am
just old, fuddy-duddy.

I think there’s not time in life to learn all the music you
want to. And, that’s why I am doing so much more piano
playing now because I am able to pick up on those pieces that
I used to play when I was in college and am having a great
time playing with anybody and everyone who came along. I
learned so much piano chamber music in those days. Now, I am
just meeting up with people, who perhaps have heard that I
play the piano, who I met in some orchestral situation
Because, being in the freelance world, you get to know a lot
more people than if you’re in one band all your life.

AC: Definitely.

TK: And so, I am in a piano trio with a cello and violin. we
are playing Dvorak’s ”Dumky” Trio. We’ve just started some
Brahmstohn Ireland Mozart, Beethoven, everything. Schumann
Piano Quintet. And that is linking all the experiences that
I’ve had playing Schumann’s symphonies and trios. That, to
me, is what life is all about. That’s what I would like my
students to have, that kind of thrill in music. But I found
it’s a different world. They are more interested in how fast
they can play.

AC: That seems to be true for a lot of people.

TK: What I would like to get across to them is that there are
masterpieces of music, but not all music is equal. Because,
that’s what everybody’s trying to say these days. The Baroque
scene, as you know, has taken off crazily here with all of
these authentic instruments. They all play all these pieces
that are written in C major, F major and G major and very
formalized sequences of tonic, dominant, subdominant. And,
anybody can go to a museum and pick up these old manuscripts
that have been rejected by most musicologists in the past.
And, they take them and broadcast them.without any sort

100

discrimination these days. They’re not all masterpieces, and
I would like to get it across to my students.

But, when you do bump into a masterpiece, and we’ve very few
as clarinet players, you’ve got to give it your all and
search in it and around it. Study it all your life. Because
it’s something really great and can’t be switched on for a
degree recital as some of them are doing this year. It’s
ridiculous, having never performed it before. I always tell
them that they should get out and air the pieces they want to
do for their important exams. Go and play at the local
church. Go, do it anywhere; get your friends to listen.

I’ve instigatedmall professors have nowmthis is a little bit
modeled on, I think, an idea I learned when I was at your
place as I was for a few weeks when Elsa [Ludewig-Verdehr]
was away [from Michigan State University on a sabbatical
leave]. She said something about a Friday evening, or
something, where everyone came along and played something.
You know, it was something a little outside the normal thing
they were doing. So, we started instigating one evening a
term where [our students] would all turn up and play
something. There would be no Masterclassing or criticism or
anything like that at the time. They would just be performing
to each other, and they each knew that they gotta get on with
it. And, they had to play with a pianist; that really scares
them because the pianists are very hard to get like at your
place. And, that’s improving too because the new heads of the
piano departments are now realizing that they’ve got to get
their students more widely interested in ensemble playing,
learning to read music instead of just memorizing. So, we've
got quite a flourishing in post-grad accompanying department.

But they don't like it! They don't like standing up and
playing with the piano. It is very interesting how they’ll
sidle away from it. They move as far away from the piano as
they can so that they can go into automatic control.

AC: Play in their own world.

TK: Not even listen. This means they don’t play in tune with
the piano either. They all play sharp. But gradually, just
gradually, they’re beginning to beingawe’ve just been doing
this now for about a year and a bit.

And then we take along some bubbles of champagne afterwards.
Then we have like a social evening, just us four profs and
the students. They can get in groups and talk about what
they've just done if they want to. And then they sidle up to
us, "What do you think?" And then somebody comes up to
listen. And that means much more to them than this formalized
piece of paper saying how they played or something. But, I
would love to see that more sort of thing, just playing and

101

commenting to each other in a friendly way. We think it has
made the atmosphere better between them. Because, it can be
quite competitive. I don't know whether you find the same.

AC: Yes. Every week we have a studio class. People who are
preparing for a recital will play those pieces.

TK: Try it out. That's good.

AC: That is good. I think that from Dr. Verdehr’s teaching
and style, most everyone is pretty supportive.

TK: Yes, now that means that it’s not just Elsa’s students?

AC: It is just Elsa’s students. They did not do it this year,
but in the past years, they’ve had a woodwind class that
meets just once a month. There, it’s the same thing, but one
of the faculty would then coach a small masterclass.

TK: I see. You have the advantage there that your professors
are stabilized, you know, earn a good living there and have
security. And ours are not. We teachers are all freelance
musicians from London orchestras actually who are doing
different things each week. Every week, well, every time you
go, you’ve got a lot of phone calls unless you’ve been able
to arrange in the previous lesson, and set up your routine
for the day. That takes a lot of time and money, actually.

AC: I'm sure.

TK: So, there’s no question of it always being a Friday
night, that you could be sure that the oboe professor was
able to come in and sort of join in what you're doing. It
takes us several weeks to establish a night that we four can
do it because we are getting last minute engagements some of
us. One of the chaps is playing in themhe’s a very young
professor, so he is mad keen and eventually found a job in
the opera. He is actually in the same set up that I began in.
He’s just joined as second clarinet. So, he’s not usually
free in the evenings at all. Sometimes he has a night off,
and we try to make it for him. So, there are rarely four
professors there.

And even if there are, [the administration] says, ”We can’t
pay you to be there. So, it's a voluntary we do. We go all
the way in there, you know, which is not funny. London is
really difficult, really time-consuming to get around. And
they say, “We’ll pay you for one hour’s worth of teaching,"
some twenty—something pounds, which of course you more or
less spend by the time you bought the train ticket. But it’s
something that we found worthwhile doingmbut we shouldn’t
have to do it unpaid.

102

Of course, we asked to do it and the reason why we asked to
do it is because we weren’t allowed to listen to our students
perform in the yearly recital, the yearly exam. Are you
allowed, your teacher? For instance, who would listen to the
end of the year jury? Is it in a public hall where other
students can listen?

AC: Not students. I'm not sure if there is a rule that says
you can't, but it’s just not done.

TK: So, because it was so difficult for them to organize,
certainly for their lessonsmbecause as I said, we’re not
regular in our days. We sometimes don't hear our players with
a pianist for a whole year, and then we probably don’t hear
them in the exam either. So, that was why we said, ”well,
let's get them together so we can at least hear them once a
year in the situation of performing." So, that’s how we
organized those classes. But, I’ve been bullying about this
because I think that many colleges here, they would hold that
exam. For instance, up in Royal Northern [College of Music],
they’ve got a small gallery at the back of a small ball for
their examiners sit, and they’re not in the way. And anyone
can come in and hear their offering for the end of the year.
And, that’s much nicer because then they’re playing to an
audience as well as us.

AC: Rather than just an exam experience.

TK: So, I said, why can’t we do that in London? They said "Oh
we don't have the space. But of course next year we’re going
to get that additional building.” I said ”Come on. You’ve got
some space somewhere." So they did. Of course that was a time
when I was abroad and couldn’t go anyway! But I don’t know if
any of the other professors went. Certainly the students
didn’t go. I think they all said, "Now, you mustn’t come to
my exam!"

But, I just beef away at these things. I feel that’s one of
my chief functions as I do really very little teaching
compared to the others. I just want to get them playing and
learning more about music. And, especially not running away
from the accompaniment!

AC: Which is easy to do for some!

TK: So, I move all sorts of chairs and things around so that
they have to go where they can hear and, you know, take a
lead from the piano or give a lead.

I am a maniac on the study of the complete piece of music.
That’s my thing. But, I repeat, I have done my listening week
by week to all the technical stuff. But, I don’t consider
myself a technician or a methodologist. Because you can see

103

my own background is picking it up as I left school and just
beavering away like mad after my husband died. Because when
he died, I was okay as a second clarinet somewhere, or first
clarinet in an opera which I knew.

AC: How much music have you edited? I know you have at least
one book published of 30103.

TK: Arrangements of bits and pieces? Yes, there are quite of
few pieces done, yes. Those are pieces of music to try and
get people playing good tunes at an early age, not
necessarily clarinet pieces, and with accompaniment. And
pieces that gives them a few bars of rest in which to
breathe. Because I have a strong feeling that many pieces
that look easy to play like some of the early Stamitz and
Devienne and things, actually the clarinet never stops
playing. And Lefevre, that’s the other one. Have you ever
used those books?

AC: I did somewhat.

TK: Early, sort of, Baroque sonatas, the wind instrument
never stops playing. And, I think that might have been
alright on those lighter weight instruments, you know. But I
think, having watched school kids try and struggle with these
pieces, that’s what started me off on that idea. I can show
you a few of the pieces.

These are real clarinet tunes.
AC: Yes, those are the ones I’ve seen.

TK: And these have been chosen for some of our school
children’s exams. I don't know if you have that system there.
Grades, you know, that they can take. You don't have to
belong to any institution to do that. This is something of
the Associated Board of the Royal Schools. It’s nothing to do
really with the schools, but it holds exams and private
teachers sends their kids as part of a measure to see how far
they’ve gotten. [They] play a little bit to get in. The
examiners are professors, usually from the Royal College.

Here’s a Schubert symphony, a bit from one of the Mozart wind
octets, a bit from Tchaikovsky for 5/4 counting. So, I did
two volumes of those which was asked for by this publisher.
And they've done very well.

Then much later, this man called Alan Frank who was the head
of Oxford University Press, he was William Walton’s publisher
and of big composers of the ’403, when he retired, he
thoughtmhe played the clarinet a bit, and he cooperated with
my husband on the Thurston and Frank tutor [The Clarinet: a
Comprehensive Tutor]. So, he said that he would like me to

104

cooperate with him and he would chose pieces withmhe’d been a
real music lover we had played through some Schumann songs
with him.

Actually, you can have this one. It’s a spare one, if you
want it“

AC: Oh, thank-you.

TK: And he said, that he was falling in love with Schumann
songs, and ”Why don’t we arrange some of those?" And, he
would do the clarinet part, and I would do the piano.
Everybody thinks that I did the clarinet part, but I didn’t!

That’s really so natural, on themfor the song repertoire to
work on the clarinet. And also, I think, I find that a lot of
my grown-up students would hardly really be able to phrase
that beautifully, I’m afraid.

AC: Things that look so simple aren't necessarily.

TK: Yes, yes exactly. Gorgeous, gorgeous tunes, and not
difficult to play. So, that did fairly well. It was less
well-liked here, because now what they want to play is
arrangements of, you know, popular tunes and jazz things, and
thatmand certain contemporary pieces that would appeal to
them rhythmically, I suppose. But anyway, this is a sort of
corner market.

Then he had the idea that we could use songs without words,
which of course are piano pieces. And again, they are lovely,
lovely tunes. This was the biggest challenge for me, to
arrange piano music for two instruments.

AC: Did you do the piano for all these?

TK: Yes, and for some of it I did clarinet as well. Because
[Frank] was by that time getting rather ill. In fact, he died
during our last effort together.

Then another publisher showed interest. I did a Mendelssohn
with them which I don’t have to show you. So for that, I used
some leftover bits of Mendelssohn and various things, again
all clarinet tunes from the symphonies, wonderful songs and
things.

And then came Tchaikovsky, by which time [Frank] had died. He
left some ideas. So, I used some of the famous string
quartets by [Tchaikovsky]. I played, when I was at Sadlers
Wells. Eugene Onegin, I had fallen in love with that opera,
so I just took something from that. March from the Fifth
[Symphony]. Again [it was] in a way of preparation for
clarinet players for playing in orchestrasmAnd the Violin

105

concerto which has all that stuff in the slow movement for
the clarinetmgive the clarinet the main tune. And then you
can put the main tune on the piano and the real clarinet part
with the orchestra comes in there.

AC: That’s nice.

TK: So these are all old-fashioned, what I would call
perennial masterpieces made accessible for students.

AC: Did you feel, when you did these, that there was a need
for more literature, or better quality.

TK: Of course, I feel that all the time. It’s going out of
fashion. They’ve come back, I guess!

AC: I hope so.

TK: Because, you see, you can't kill all these composers off
actually. They never died yet, have they? That’s what I’m
telling everybody. Everybody’s making a big fuss of Bach this
year. Well, it was Mendelssohn who brought Bach back, wasn't
it? [Bach] wasn’t played at all after he died. Vaughan
Williams wasn’t played after he died. He’s already come back.
It all goes in cycles. All this Baroque stuff. When the Radio
3 first started, there were one or two people interested in
that literature who were on the panels of producers there.
And, they started making programs of harpsichord and that
sort of thing. Most of the things were dreadful, dull
academic stuff, you know. It’s elitist, eccentric stuff isn't
it? And now, of course, it's become high pop with the Vivaldi
Seasons being pop. Now, that was just laughed at in the ’603.
So, you see I think it all goes round and round in circles
and the masterpieces come to the top.

AC: They’re the ones which last.

TK: And, we don’t know always what the masterpieces of the
present day are. Strange that people like Spohr were really
worshiped but then they declined. But a few bits of Spohr
still survive. We’ll know in time, really. As for
composition, I don’t know where it’s going. What do you
think?

AC: It’s hard to tell. There’s a composition degree at
Michigan State, and there seems to be a wide range as to what
these people are writing. A lot of it's electronic.

TK: Yes, there’s probably a lot to come in that department,
isn't there?msort of, computer-type music, which is just not
based on the tonal scale and the harmonic series, which is in
nature. That one’s been sort of worked out, hasn’t it? Ben
Britten always said he could still find things to say in the

106

normal harmonic language that we had known for a few hundred
years. There seems to bemsince we speak in sentences, and
sing in phrases, and we relate very naturally to the harmony
that you find in major/minor chords, and that can all be
proved in nature, couldn’t it? Acousticsmthat may always be a
natural form of expression for us. I can’t see kids humming
things in quartertones very easily.

AC: Right.

TK: The Japanese have been very interested, really gone crazy
over Western music. I’m amazed by it.

[Pointing to music on the floor]
If you want any of these, you are welcome to take it. One of
each, or whatever you’d like.

AC: Is that music still published?

TK: Yes, this firm called Chester, has gone in the way of
Novello and a whole group of composers, publishers who could
no longer sell music each on their ownmthey are under some
big company called Music Salesm“The Division of Music Sales
Limited." And it sells pop, it sells absolutely everything.
It has headquarters in Soho. So, they each keep their little
label, with their name on because each one serves a group of
composers. Rather like your Southern Music lot, you know.
They are really good and very reasonable aren’t they? I often
get stuff from them. A lot of British players and composers
get their stuff published very easily by them, by that lot.
It’s in San Antonio, I guess. Do you know about that?

AC: I believe so; it sounds right.

TK: They do some really good things. But, most of it’s
arrangements. In general, I’m very anti-arrangements, I have
to say. I likemI really do like music played on the
instrument from which it was really perceived. I don’t really
approve of my colleagues recommending their students to play
arrangements when they could easily be playing their own
stuff.

AC: I think that’s true.

TK: Even however well [the arrangements] work. I think it’s
ok to do a study as an extra, but not as a main offering
during their course. I don’t like that at all. I have to say
that most [of my colleagues] are quite sure they keep away
from that when it comes to a big exam or recital. I think
when they play outside at any kind of engagement I think it’s
their duty to say, ”I play the clarinet, and these composers
have taken the time to write these pieces especially for the
clarinet. I am going to show you that.”

107

AC: And, our literature is so limited compared to other
instruments.

TK: There’s plenty more there than people think. That was the
whole object when I got a chance to record. I thought, ”I am
going to show there are so many other pieces. It’s not just
Spohr One [Concerto]; it’s Spohr Four!”

AC: When did you start recording?

TK: well, I was asked to do odd things. But, I did actually
dig out some of the earlier things.

[Showing me several recordings]

1979. Anyway, we did that. The man, the English
representative of this, was called Ted Perry, and he had
always been fascinated with records. He was useful as a, kind
of, business, amateur who knew something about music to
represent this company’s market in London, and he was in
charge of this recording. He was very nice to me, very
complimentary. And that, actually, was the sort of the
beginning. He now runs Hyperion, this company that’s done all
these wonderful things. He doesn't discontinue anything and
he’s, as you probably know, gone into the very unusual off-
beat kind of repertoire. He knew a piece of musicmhe listened
a lot to that Radio 3 and sort of picked up a lot of ideas of
unusual pieces. Just a little like a kind of form of beaver,
working away, getting ideas of unusual pieces to do.

He’s chosen us the [cover albums] pictures as well. He has a
nose. He just goes and says, ”I like that; that looks right
for that."

AC: What’s his name again?

TK: Ted Perry. The “Per" bit came into the title ”Hyperion."
And, he got a backer for his company. His wife is an
accountant, and she helped with that side of things. And, the
first record they ever issued was mine!

Before that, I’ve had the odd chance-— I worked a lot with
[Yehudi] Menuhin at one stage and he was recording with EMI
and must have said something nice to them. Then I did a
demonstration record once. And also, in the orchestra
withmwhen ECO played with Barenboim who was only twenty-one
then. He would do all piano concertos with us and at the same
time, they decided they would like to record this piece. And
that came out in the 19603, late ’603. It was better that
they didn’t put dates on them those days, I think they were
afraid they would sort ofm1969. That was the first thing I
did for a company that was known, EMI. But just as one of
four soloists.

108

And there was a rich accountant who fancied himself as a
conductor. He had a lot of money. He got himself lots of
players of the freelance world, called it the Little
Orchestra of London. Then, he decided that he would do the
three wind concertos. So, that was my first Mozart concerto
recording. I’ve recorded it three times. But these are all
“flash in the pan" things.

Then that man, Perry, cropped up again when John Ireland
died. Do you play the FantasysSonata at all? It was very much
written for Thurston, that one.

AC: I’m not sure if I’ve heard of it.

TK: I had been down to visit [Ireland], where he lived, at
his place and played the sonata a couple of times. When he
died, Ted Perry, still with the same Saga label at that
point, said they would do a memorial disc. And Alan Rowlands
is the pianist who played with me when we’d been to see
Ireland. So, we gathered together people who actually knew
the composer. I knew the piece backwards because I played the
first performance when I was a student. [I] played it for all
Thurston’s students, gave the first college performance of
it, as a pianist. So, I was very tickled. I still think it’s
a very important work of the British repertoire. So, we did
that.

And then, Ted Perry cropped up a third time with another
company called Meridian, started by a schoolmaster who had
beautiful recording equipment in one of those public schools
down in south London. He decided that since he had this
wonderful equipment he would, for some money, like to make
records. So, he started a label. we were then passing out of
this era where only EMI or RCA, and all that, where were the
people might employ. And, they certainly wouldn’t employ me,
because I wasn’t, as I say, anything.

But, then these little companies like Meridian came along and
said they would like to do something. So, I chose Spohr
[Concerto] 4 and Mozart, yet again. Ted Perry again had left
the Saga [Records] situation by then and joined up with the
schoolmaster. So, that was fine. They launched one or two
discs, and mine was one of them. But only a very ”hole in the
corner" affair.

I thought, “Well, this is amazing." because I’d actually made
some tapes. You see, I never expected ever to get any kind of
connection with a recording company. But, I had a chance to
actually make some tapes. This conductor friend, Alun
Francis, said he would like to do that. ”Why don’t we just
see what happens?" And this was all on this analog stuff. And
I said, “Well, it would really be nice to put down some of

109

these works that certainly, if Thurston had lived, he would
have done all these things that had been written for him."
I’d played with [Thurston] and studied them.with him and I
thought, I’d just like to put them down on tape. There was
two discs worth that were lying upstairs doing nothing.

Then, Ted Perry said that, after the Mozart, we should do
some more. But, the schoolmaster stuck at that point, ”Oh,
well, I don’t know if I’ve got more money to put towards
this.” And he was balking all the time, and Ted was getting
very impatient. And so, I took Ted out to lunch and said,
“Why don’t you cut away from this guy?" You know, because
he’d fix dates and then he hadn't come up with the money. I’d
arranged for players to share it with me because we’d done a
lot of rehearsing, of quintets actually. Somervell and Jacob,
those two.

This, alas, is the only disc [of Somervell and Jacob] that
Perry had discontinued. I feel sad because I like the
picture.

I took Ted out and said, ”Look I don't know whether you knew,
but I’ve a lot of stuff lying around that I have already put
down." He said, ”Oh, I wouldn't mind hearing that." And the
Finzi Concerto was one, also the Stanford Concerto. I said,
“Why don’t you start?" He said, “I’ve got no money." His
father was a grave digger, I believe. He didn’t have the
money. Then something happened. As I say, he foundmhe pursued
the idea, or somebody else persuaded him to, and he founded
Hyperion. Stanford and Finzi were the first issue, my tape,
because he liked the tapes when he heard them.

Since that day, he’s taken any suggestion that I’d like to
make. He’s not chosen anything that I’ve done. I’ve done the
whole thing, got the parts and everything. I was very keen to
do something about Crusell, because I heard somebody play the
concerto, and found a way to get the parts. I said to Ted,
”What do you think aboutmwould you like to have some
Crusell?" He said, “If you think it’s alright, Thea. Ok
then." Everything I suggested he took without a murmur
although he knew that they weren’t commercially viable at
all.

Then, of course, the world changed. People got fed up just
buying Mozart and Brahms, didn’t they? All these other
companies came a long. And people like you, sort of, picked
it up at the other end of the world which is very, very
extraordinary. Of course it wasn’t, as I say, something that
I was pursuing.

I was just fitting [recording] in between touring around with

the orchestra and keeping up with the teaching, odd chamber
music classes and things. So, I started getting out things

110

that were particularly British because I thought that was the
area that was so neglected.

I came across this piece of paper today. I don’t know where
it was; it must be from a magazine. It’s clips from some
gramophone magazine, I suppose. Some of them [Perry] gets
sent from America as well. He’s got some connection with
America, Perry has. I suppose it’s a distributor in Los
Angeles. But [Perry’s] been very good at distributing this
stuff all over the world. It sells much better abroad than
here.

AC: Does it?

TK: Yes. And the Mozart Concerto, we eventually decided to do
on the long clarinet because hardly anyone had in 1985.
Selmer’s actually manufactured one for the first time which
which we’d been pestering them to do for twenty-five years.
That was something that I felt very strongly that I wanted to
do although I’d recorded it twice before.

AC: And that's the basset clarinet?

TK: The basset clarinet, yes. There were various problems
with that at the last minute, with the conductor being
pursued by EMI and being forbidden to do the work with me. I
can’t tell you what goes on in all that contracts and
business. It’s horrible. So, that’s become one of Ted’s best
sellers, inexplicably because I had the flu and the
instrument cracked, and everything seemed wrong.

AC: Certainly was a unique experience!
TK: There you go, yes!

AC: Do you know how many works that you’ve recorded have been
the first recordings of a piece?

TK: Good question.
AC: Seems like quite a few.

TK: Um,mI’m terrible you see; I’m completely disorganized. I
don’t keep records of anything, really. I haven’t sort of
colored a picture of my activities at all over the years. So,
in answer to your question: ”Premier recordings of certain
pieces." Is what you’re asking, isn’t it?

AC: Yes.
TK: I think I did about fifteen or sixteen records once we

got going. I just kept thinking up pieces and bringing them
out to do about two a year. Some I don’t actual know about.

111

This is Crusell Quartets. I suspect they were almost like
first recording. But, if you look at the British [composers].
Now, Julius Rietz, a wonderful piece, and Heinze. [Counting
from the page] Now that would be one, two, three, four,mfour
on that one. Rawsthorne, yesmsevenmSeiber eight, nine,
Fergusen ten, Hurlstone eleven, Mendelssohn the two
concertpieces with orchestra twelve, thirteen. Bruch, I don’t
know. I suppose upwards of twentymall of those. Thirty—odd I
suppose. And the majority were ”first-times.” Because I
thought there was no point in doing to deathmI did one Weber.
I did one Weber because Ted thought it would be good to have
one piece that people knew. And it was a useful companion to
the Crusell on that occasion.

This Stanford, the pieces for clarinet and string quartetmhe
had written late in life and it was just a score and parts.
In many cases you couldn’t see the notes. We spent a long,
long time fishing out all the wrong notes as we rehearsed it.
It had not been played before. But now a little, tiny
publishing firm in Cambridge has issued it. I made sure I did
all the proofreading.

This particularmone of the last, most recent onesmthere are
certainly ”first-timers" on that. Two Maconchy and the
Britten which nobody played. I suppose I have got three in
connection with Britten's publisher.

But, you know what came from America the other day? It’s
rather extraordinary that you should come now. I don’t know
if you’ve played any of Malcom Arnold’s stuff. Do you know
the Sonatina?

AC: I’ve played it, but not performed it.

TK: He wrote two concertos. I don’t know if you know that.
One was a Benny Goodman one. He did play it here because it
had opportunity to improvise your own cadenza. And a jazzy
last movement, and it was a very popular, crazy type of
piece. And the first work had been for my husband, a clarinet
concerto way back in 1948 or ’49. And I remember going to
some of the early performances when I was a student, just a
beginner professionally. I then got to know Malcom Arnold. I
used to play in his film music. He was wonderful, very funny,
marvelous conductor, a bit crazy. He’s now getting over
eighty and had mental problems years and years ago. Very sad.
He lives in a kind of terror. Occasionally, he’ll ring up
when he’s on a good day and talk a bit about the past. He was
so pleased that I decided to do both of his concertos. That
particular disc was featuring pieces that were written either
for Thurston or Goodman. That was great fun, including a bit
film music. He’d written a special bit since my husband used
to play for him.

112

Now, a gent rang me up from Boston a few days ago, and said
he was doing a project on Sir Malcom Arnold’s film music, and
he’d heard that I had possibly played for him. Way back. And,
“Could I remember what films I played for?” I never
remembered. I don’t remember signing the paycheck and the
time it was sent.

End of Tape One

113

Tape TwO, Side One

[Listening to a recording of a radio program of Thurston
playing Malcom Arnold Concerto sent by someone doing the
project on Malcom Arnold’s film music.]

TK: Typical of [Arnold’s] film musicm
AC: Changes in characterm

TK: Never develops itmstill already very weird, sort of,
forebodingm

It’s just such an interesting document to have of how they
played it spirit-wise and such a surprise to get it from the
States!

AC: Did Thurston commission any of these pieces?

TK: No, he didn’t commission any pieces at all. That’s the
most important thing.

AC: So, people were writing for him.

TK: They just wrote for him, yes. [Commissioning] wasn’t ever
the done thing really; players in those days they really
didn’t seem to. Maybe, some of these big string or piano
30103 were commissions, could be. Certainly, Thurston never
had the money to do that or was never arrogant enough to
think that he was important enough to have anything [written
for him]. Maybe he thought that if they didn't want to do it,
perhaps it wouldn't be a very good piece. You never know.
Because a lot of pieces that are commissioned turn out to be
less inspired.

AC: What pieces have you commissioned?

TK: Howard Blake is one. He'd done some incidental music for
television that I was playing in, and he was conducting
himself. Although it was just incidental, I found his style
very, very fascinating, and so I asked if he would. So, that
was one, certainly. What else have I commissioned? Oh,
Elizabeth Maconchy, a piece called Fantasia. She’s this lady
here.

AC: I haven’t heard of her before.

TK: You haven’t? Actually, I played that for the first time
at one of these DenvermJohn Denman’s the pianist. That was
the first performance given at Denver International Congress.
Those may be the only two pieces that I actually requested.
But I’ve given other first performances of pieces.

114

AC: And others have been dedicated to you?

TK: Benjamin Frankel’s Quintet. He wrote that after Jack
died. He dedicated it to the two of us in a rather nice way.
That was commissioned by an important festival called
Cheltenham International Contemporary Music Festival [held]
every June. Cheltenham is a famous spa town in the west of
England, a lot of culture. They would always invite composers
and give them money to write a piece. And Ben said. “Ok, I
will write a piece for clarinet quintet," and dedicated it to
Thurston and me. “To Thea for Jack”, or something like that.
I did not give the first performance. Because it was soon
after [Thurston] died, and I hadn’t really started trying to
pick upmnot gotten anywhere, I should say. Gervase de Peyer
played it first. But, I did the first London performance, and
then I decided that I had to do something about [recording
the piece].

I never mentioned the lady's wind ensemble called Portia, did
I?

AC: No.

TK: This was the first thing that happened, really, after
Jack died that got me into playing. Of course, at that time
there were actually no women in any important wind set-ups in
orchestras. But, I’d been playing with a chamber orchestra.
They offered me some work after Jack died, [playing] second
clarinet. Playing the viola was a man who had led the Violas
for Sir Thomas Beecham in the Royal Philharmonic. He had the
intentions of being a conductor, and he had this idea. He
noticed that one or two women wind [players] appearing around
the scene. And, he thought he’d might like to try and form an
ensemble of all women, a wind group. So, he said, “Do you
have any ideas who might like to play the flute? The bassoon?
We recommended our pals. We had a few rehearsals and formed a
group of ten wind players, a double wind quintet.

We used to rehearse every week, just for fun. Then we got
some money together. [We] chipped in and booked a very small
hall and asked a few critics to come along. And, we
commissioned a piece. We put this on. There were some nice
things in the paper about it. And, I think that somebody came
from the BBC. This viola player was much more into the
profession. He knew quite a few people. The BBC said they
would be interested to hear us to do an audition in the
studio; we were invited to do that. They gave us some
broadcasts. People were amazed that ten women could play wind
music! Of course, in America at that time, it was already far
more normal for women to play.

AC: About what time was this?

115

TK: 19503. 1954 or '55. So we got other composers who were
interested and sent along stuff for us to play. Gordon Jacob
was one of them. —

Oh, that’s another piecemthe Mini-Concerto, Gordon Jacob
wrote for me. As a result of my choosing to do his quintet.
He was a very elderly man at this time. This is the record
that has not survived. He just wrote a piece and sent it to
me. I didn’t commission it, or anything.

I think you should take [a Hyperion catalog] with you. Maybe
that could be interesting since it mentions some of the
recordings.

[Frankel] was a very noted film composer as well. Frankel and
Arnold at that point made some very good films and made a lot
of money.

Howard Blake, actually the one I did commission from, worked
in Hollywood for a long time. He was one that found he
couldn’t accept the, sort of, new idioms when he was — he’s
now a man of about fifty, or something — and he studied at
the [Royal] Academy. He felt he expressed his ideas best in
tonal music. And of course, they told him that was not going
to be any good; that he had to forget all that. That was
during our Schoenberg era at the BBC. He just couldn’t face
all that. He said, ”Well, I don't know, I don’t think I could
be a composer at all then.”

So he pushed off. He had always been keen on films, and he’d
done a lot of piano playing for certain film scores. So he
knew how to write film music. So, he went to Hollywood and
made a lot of money there. Then he came back to England and
sort of started to think about how he was going to do things.
I think it was that connection with tonality, when I met him
over the incidental music, that attracted me to him probably.
He was very good at writing jazz and light music as well.

When he got back, he was able to earn a living. And, he wrote
a piece called Benedictus, I think, for choir and huge
orchestra. And, this was recognizably tonal enough for
amateur choirs to sing (big choirs, chorus groups) as well as
having some individuality. It had a big success. So, he sort
of got back in again. By that time, the taste in music
changed again after those twenty years.

AC: What other chamber groups were you in?

TK: well, there was this one called Vesuvius which did all
that contemporary stuff in the ’603.

AC: Did you enjoy playing contemporary music?

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TK: Oh yes! I spent many, many hours enjoyably at it. I used
to like the intellectual challenge. I didn’t get a lot from
it emotionally, I have to say. I enjoyed trying to get inside
what was there, and I enjoyed trying to get it right. But, I
haven’t recently done so much. That Maconchy piece I
commissioned in 1980 was the last piece that I consciously
put a lot of work into. [I’ve] always been meeting a lot [of
contemporary music] in orchestra, chamber orchestra. Which we
don’t call chamber music, I don’t know if you know that
distinction. Americans seem to call chamber orchestras,
chamber music. But, it isn't at all because it conducted.

What was I going to say? There was also this Melos Ensemble
which was really formed very many years ago when Gervase De
Peyer was the all the rage. You’ve heard of him at all?

AC: Yes.

TK: Yes, because he made many recordings, when other people
had not quite gotten around to clarinet 3010 music. He did
some really well—received performances. He was a really
precociousmfast developer in the profession. He had plenty of
brilliance, nerve, and conviction about what he did. And, it
was really terrific stuff. His group was called the Melos
Ensemble which was internationally known. They’ve got lots of
records of all the unusual stuff, that had not been done
before like the Spohr NOnet and Howard Ferguson. He did all
sorts of things. But, then he was principal in the LSO
[London Symphony Orchestra]. He was into everything; he did
all the big solo stuff. Just after Thurston died, he really
sort of stepped in and took on all the first performances
that Thurston had been noted for, like the Finzi.

Then [De Peyer] thought he could conquer America as well,
like Reg Kell earlier. But, he didn’t get on so well. He was
in that Lincoln Center group when it was very young. He was a
contemporary of when I was at college too. He and Colin Davis
and myself were all there at the same time.

He had been living in Washington and doing some teaching. I
think then Stoltzman got in on that lot. So, Gervase is back
here now, trying to revive his career a bit, but most of the
young players had never even heard of him. He went out of the
country and stayed away so long that everybody forgot him.
It’s a pity because he was a very fine musician.

So, where did I get into that lot?
AC: The Melos Ensemble.
TK: Melosmwhen he went to America, and of course, that more

or less, saw his exit from that lot. [Melos] decided that
they wanted to revive, back in the ’703, I suppose. They

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asked me if I would join, and it was a very well-known name,
the ensemble. But, some of the older players had died or
left. So, it never really took off again in the same way. We
did have some very nice concerts and a tour of Italy where
everybody got records of the Melos, and they thought they
were going to hear the same thing, I suppose. But, it could
never become what it had been. For me, it was wonderful to
play that repertoire.

AC: When did that group found; when did it begin?

TK: I would say in the '503, mid-’SOS when Gervase was just
launching himself into the profession.

AC: So, he was the founding clarinetist?

TK: Yes. I would say he was, reallymthe inspiration behind
it.

As I say, the most important [group] in many ways that
women’s ensemble called The Portia, way back. After awhile, I
got too busy to be much involved with that, but I had a good
ten years or so with them.

We decided to have a competition and that we would offer
money to composers to submit stuff for ten wind instruments.
We had about thirty entries. Can you imagine trying to play
this stuff and decide? Some people were writing very
conventional stuff, and others, you couldn’t make head or
tail of.

In the end, we put on a concert in London at which we chose
three pieces to play. The one that we decided should win had
the best technique of composition, and he turned out to be a
jazz trombonist. It was all done anonymously. When they sent
their scores, they didn’t put any names on them because we
wanted to be quite impartial. Us women trying to chose; it
was quite fun. And, then it turned out to be this jazzman. So
they asked him to come along, help us, sit through the
concert and all that. He was called Mike Gibb. I think he now
lives in America. And, I think he has the most successful
jazz band, or something, and has done well. I’m sure our
piece was never played again.

But, that provided such a lot of music which has been quite
useful for other groups to play. At that time, there was no
thing as a wind ensemble for ten players. But, that gave us
all such a valuable experience. The viola player who
conducted it became quite busy in, what we call, the session
world, engaging freelance players to do light music for
backing sessions for things, ”studio work” we call it. Also,
he fixed for television. He thought that he’d like to try
selling a few female wind players that he’d gotten to know

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through and trust through these rehearsals with him. And so,
we got into the television area, playing in something called
”Music You have Loved" or something like that. There were few
female faces in the winds. Of course, we were all young, very
smart looking in those days. So, that gave us enormous
exposure that we never expected as well as experience of
playing next to the men, which was a bit tricky sometimes.

You find yourself suspected of trying to steal the work from
the men. That was one of the difficulties of starting off as
a female. I don't know how it works in America. I used to say
every time I opened up my clarinet case: I am depriving some
poor man and his family of work. I really had a bad complex
about it. I met one or twomit was dealing with the male
second and third clarinets; that was the problem. If you’d
just been somebody in the mixture, that would be ok. But if
you were playing principal (and I was none too experienced at
that), you had to have a very strong nerve not to be put off
by them. But, there were one or two of the older players who
were extremely kindly and would, give help and advice if
needed. They weren’t all, sort of, ambitious, wanting you out
of the way at all. If you were nice them, they were nice to
you. You had to be very careful that you were encouraging and
supportive so that their egos didn’t get damaged too much.

I used to drive one of them around places, picking him up
from some tube station, or other, because he had a bass
clarinet and an Eb [clarinet] and the whole lot on board. He
didn’t drive himself. I don’t why he didn’t. I would pack a
picnic and make sure that there was something he liked! It
had to do with the protection of the male ego, very
important!

AC: Tip-toe around it!

TK: I was feeling I was stabbing them in the back. As I got
into the professionmI had always been trained by Thurston
that I must never, sort of, compete for any situation. If you
went along and it wasn’t particularly dictated who would play
first, second, third, or fifth in those wind band "combos."
”Always sit at the bottom," he said to me. "You must realize
that those men really need the money because they've got
wives and families to support," he said. ”It’s all well for
you single females. You’ve got to be very submissive."

But they’ve got a female cor anglais and the clarinetist is
female. They actually found in the end that some of those
were such good players that they couldn’t afford to be choosy
any longer because it was a very competitive thing. So,
usually you find, that if anyone has a positive place in the
symphony orchestra as a female, they’re really jolly-good
players.

119

AC: Did it take a shorter amount of time for women string
players to be included?

TK: Yes, they would stick them in the back and use them as
”backer-ups". And also, the BBC was always very good to [the
women]. Because, after all, they weren’t seen before the days
of television. They have, I think, a policy of equal
opportunity. They were always very honorable in their
dealings, the BBC.

[Speaking about academic assessment and in music colleges and
universities, pertaining to a specific current student.]

What [the administration at the Guildhall] decided was: if
someone that got more than 62%, then that showed they had
good chances perhaps of being a good enough player, to have a
kind of player rated degree. Not that it shows to the outside
world; it just says “Bachelor of Music." That’s what it says
at the end anyway. However, it doesn’t really matter what you
get inside.

To the student, it matters, of course. You say to this girl,
”well, you did terribly well on all your academic stuff, and
you're very good in the community work. You did all this
well. We think that you didn’t play well enough to proceed to
doing an extra recital next. So, I think you ought to
concentrate on your academic work. That’s better for you."
That’s what they’re telling her, you see. She says, “But, I
came to this place to learn to play. If I wanted to be an
academic, I could've got into Cambridge."

I think it’s wrong to stop them training properly to be
clarinetists. Because this academic stuff is a load, of what
we call, ”codswallop" which is ”nothing". You should read
some the stuff in that book [the syllabus] about the
psychology of music and the affect it has on the listener,
all sorts of philosophical questions which is really what you
don’t go to a playing college to learn. The London colleges
are supposed to be about playing. They are not universities.
We are sharply divided here. If you what to play, you go to
college, not to a university.

And that’s slightly changing. Because, at Cambridge, if
you’re bright enough to get into Cambridge and do a music
degree, they will give you quite a lot of playing
opportunities. These people who get into Cambridge are
extremely motivated people. we've only really got two
universities that are on that level. The government will tell
you that they’re trying to make us all equal. There’s a lot
of fuss about that. You've probably heard how there’s this
elitism at Oxford and Cambridge, and it has to be ”stomped
out.”

Anyway, we’ve had several wonderful players who had been to

120

Cambridge and have come up to London for private lessons.
I’ve had several of them. They keep up their playing levels
because they are good workers; they get on with it. They’ve
got lots of chances to play chamber music and 30103 down in
Cambridge. They really get down to that.

Then they can come to London and do a post grad [degree] if
they get into our place. They’re done with academic work for
good; they’ve done that. Then they're motivated and get on
with playing. One of them who was here has just got a job in
the Hallé Orchestra which is the big orchestra the north of
here. And, it’s a girl! That’s most unusual: a female
clarinet principal in this country.

So, I think it’s [the student’s situation] going to be
alright. But my pal Joy [also on the clarinet faculty of the
Guildhall School], who’s redheaded and goes for it,mWe feel
we’re making an impact on this chauvinistic scene. A lot of
these administrator people, I’m afraid, are basically male.
And we had a fear that they were going to use this poor girl
as kind of a example where, “Ah, yes, the women don't stand
much chance in the profession do they? We’ll steer them
towards the academic side.” And that, of course, would be a
kind of ego-trip for the academicians who were trying to get
more work and more pound. All that comes into play, you see.
But, no doubt, that is was not peculiar to our country or
colleges. But, it is nice when the girls together can make a
little impact.

My mother used to have a saying. She said, ”It’s no good
getting old if you don't get artful."

AC: To know the right buttons to push.

TK: But, I feel that becausemyou know, I saw the beginning of
it all in this country; I sort of know how to handle some of
these situations. But, I’m very much at a distance, really,
in the Guildhall because I don’t want to do much work there.
But, I do want to try and make sure that kids get more chance
to play and study music. It is an extraordinary thing to say
about a music college.

But, in fact, our basket—culturemhowever,they are going to
completely redo all this stuff that I’ve given to you. So,
that is past history. They’re now going to get around making
a new system for kids get together more and do real music.
Because what they’ve done over the years is gradually
streamed all the students. I don’t know if you do that over
there. But, when it comes to anything like oral training or
harmony classes, or arranging, editing, all those sort of
things, they would put all the pianists in one class with a
kind of time-table; they always meet on Tuesdays, and all the
wind players on another day. So, they completely stream

121

vertically, so these kids don't actually get to know each
other even because they are socially separated with class
work. Now, what happens with you?

AC: It’s more integrated.
TK: I thought 30.

AC: And, it’s nice that way. You get to understand their
disciplines.

TK: Yes. And also, you mentioned all these other subjects
you’re doing. You must have made a lot of friends?

AC: Yes. Quite a fewm

TK: As the students in Cambridge do too. They get a lot from
that.

AC: There's still a fewma lot of grouping between the
instrument groups. It just happens.

TK: Naturally, it’s bound to be. But, to say that wind
players would only, sort of, deal with band music or
somethinnge have these bands, rather like you do, not on so
an exaggerated scale, but there is a wind band which plays
all this stuff. The students simply loathe. They hate playing
more than one to a part, of course they do.

AC: Is there still quite bit of bias against women?
TK: Definitely, definitely, yes.
AC: How has it changed?

TK: Most of it’s subconscious, I think in many ways. They
sort of picturemtheir whole attitude in life is: well the
profession is all about orchestral playing. Because, most of
these professors are players who’ve ducked out of the
orchestra profession. I see it not like that anymore. And,
they know jolly well it isn’t because most symphony
orchestras are fighting for survival. I think yours are in a
bit of problem too, aren’t they?

AC: Yes.

TK: Over here, it’s definitely true. Music is all going to be
on tape now isn't it? You will, sort of, dial into it on the
internet and all that. And you won’t even be seen, so you
won’t know whether it’s male or female. If they are going to
go off and play a lot in prisons, hospitals and all that,
that’s fine. You don’t have to have only males to do it.
Often the girls present those things much better, I think.

122

So, one’s fighting that, just making that point all the time.
Maybe Sally [the student spoken of previously] isn't the
obvious type to get to play in a symphony orchestra. In fact,
she is, as regards as being a good little colleague in the
middle, she’d do jolly well, as women do very well in this
country on being a supportive second clarinet or string
player, or something. So, I’m going to fight for Sally. She’s
not my pupil in the university; she's like several of them.
We have this system which I don’t think you have. When we get
after the third year, they go to more than one teacher.

AC: I know some places where they do that.

TK: I think we’ve been doing that too much. And, I think they
give them their own way too much. They interview them and
say, “Well, are you happy with your teacher? Who would you
like to learn with?" "Oh, I’d like to have three [lessons]
with Thea, four with Joy. Oh, I’ll perhaps study Eb
[clarinet] and have a bit of bass [clarinet]," and all that.
And, I think they get away with murder because they take the
piece around to all of us. And thatmthey don’t have to commit
themselves to returning with something to show they’ve
improved because they have the same lesson.

AC: Right.

TK: Even the first and second years are trying to swing that
one now. Joy thinks the same way. We feel that they’re
diffusing too much now. They give them.what they want.
Sometimes they don’t know what’s best for them.

AC: They need the stability.
TK: How many students does Elsa teach altogether?
AC: There’s twelve. Last year there weremtwelve or thirteen.

TK: That’s right. That’s how many when I was there. And
that’s all we have in the whole [Guildhall] school. We stick
at that number. So, we’ve got two or three of each of the
four years. And then there might be the odd ones that come
for post-grad. We get quite a few from the continent. Swedes,
a Norwegian last year, a lot of Spaniards. Those Spaniards
have a fabulous school of clarinet playing. All stemming from
their wind groups called “harmony music," or something. They
come most beautifully trained instrumentally, perhaps more
naive musically, but they are really very lovely people, most
of them, and often very successful.

We’ve got a stunning girl from Prague. She’s just had two
post grad years. And the Guildhall School, and the

“moneybags” behind it, decided they would like to help the
eastern Europeans who’ve had such a rough time to get, you

123

know, some training in a big city. So, this girl from Prague
was chosen. I think [the students] were askedmthey were
invited to submit tapes. And, they were given this education
absolutely free. Sort of Britain’s way of trying to
developmhelp eastern Europeans recover after the war, which
is very nice. Anyway, she did so well in one year, a good
student and so nice, that they gave her a second year. So,
she’s just gone back to her own college. They let her, sort
of, defer her final degree. So, she’s still got another year
to come over here. In fact, she was in that Munich
Competition. She did very well in the first round, but didn’t
get further. But she says that over in Prague, there’s pretty
little hope of her ever getting a job. She says it’s much
worse than in England. She’s the sort that could succeed,
actually.

TK: It was just really putting the thought in her head that
she should really have a go. And, I think she really needed
to come west to see how we get on.

She went for a French competition. Of course, these brass
overlords decided that she’s alright after all, so perhaps
she should concentrate on trying to do auditions and recitals
and things. If the Czech people get into the common market,
then I think she’s got a chance to get a job there.

So, she looked around and found this French competition.
There were two very uninteresting solo de concour on the
syllabus that nobody's ever heard of. She worked really hard
on the music. I played the piano part, and then she got
another guy to play for her. She really knew it very well and
won the competition, above all the French people because she
could play fast. And, the prize was a Leblanc A clarinet
which she doesn’t want. She seemsmI said, ”Why don’t you sell
the thing before you leave England." She really needs another
Bb. "I don’t know; I haven’t gotten round to it," she says.

So, I don’t know what’s going to happen unless the symphony
world recovers.

AC: What does themin order to get in the symphony, what is
the typical audition.

TK: The auditions are similar the sort of pieces that you
would be asked to play. They very often have the Rachmaninov
Second Symphony. They always have the Mendelssohn [Midsummer
Night’s Dream] Scherzo. They often have a bit of Mahler, and
they always have one of the Beethoven symphonies, usually
number six and eight, the solos from there. Sometimes a bit
of Benjamin Britten, perhaps. Something from the Prince of
Pagodas ballet or the Peter Grimes interludes, especially on
the Eb clarinet. Sometimes a bit of Bruckner.

124

AC: Things from the standard repertoire.

TK: It has, of course, very often been the first movement to
the Mozart Concerto or sightreading as well. It’s beginning
to change a bit because I think it’s a difficult piece to
chose for an audition because people listen. There will
usually be principal clarinet and the leader [listening] and
people have gotten very used to how that particular person
plays the Mozart. It’s the something that is so personalmand
the fact that it wasn’t written for the short instrument too.
It gives another dimension in the long run. [The short
clarinet] does effect the speed and color of what you’re
trying to get out of it. What they’re really wanting is to
hear if somebody can play with some sense of style and
security whether they like the sound or not. So, sometimes
they’ve been choosing a Weber movement or them

The Welsh Orchestra, the BBC Welsh,mthey recently have been
having years of auditions for the principal and they chose
the Debussy Rhapsody which is an interesting one, not that
they hear very much of that; they mostly have excerpts.

Now, other orchestras have been choosing the Nielsen
[Concerto] lately which is quite a good idea. Because,
there’s not a lot room to be very personal about that piece
because you must keep going. Then they can hear if someone
can handle the clarinet or not, and judge their musicality a
bit more in the excerpts.

The Gulbenkian Orchestra in Lisbon, a past pupil of mine, a
lady, is principal clarinet there. That fortunately was
something also that I unwittingly had something to do withmin
telling them.a lot about her. She was a person who was a bad
reader, and therefore, she was given no chance in England at
all. Because she had a very good sense of pitch and memory,
she could hear a piece and then immediately go and play it.
She was a good pianist as well. She wasn’t the sort that was
good at print reading, but she was a marvelous, imaginative
player. Which doesn’t always go down well with the English
orchestra scene. They want somebody who can do the job
efficiently, not be too emotional, and all that stuff.

Anyway, I was asked if I thought she was a suitable person to
audition. And I said, ”well, she’d be a liability if you take
her. I adore her playing, but you may not like it. Anyway,
she would be hopeless at reading. He said, ”We have lots of
rehearsals. we rehearse the program for the whole week!" Over
here, you rehearse it for a few hours, and then play it. Then
she got [the job] and now she’s learned to be a reader. And
she’s had a wonderful life there.

Then, her second was an elderly gentleman who was fatherly,
and he saw her through her difficulty period. Then, of

125

course, he had to retire. So, she had to choose the second
clarinet player and had months and years of auditions. She’d
been ringing me up. ”Who do you suggest?" But, the way they
decided to do it was that she would play with them. They
would play stuff for two clarinets and she would get the
feel. That was her idea. In the end, she chose a Spaniard
from the Guildhall. I don’t know whether he survived. The
moment he got the job, he started to feel desperately
insecure, very strange. I must ring up and see how it’s gone.

But mostly, they can take a year to chose a principal, you
know. I don’t know how you do it there.

AC: It depends.

TK: They keep giving them a batch of work to do say, for May,
and then someone else comes in and does the June. And the
poor first clarinet, if it’s a second job, has got to sort of
fit in. The section has get used to each one of the strangers
in turn and try to make a decision at the end of it.

The conductor, I suppose, has a bit of input. The London
orchestrasmthey usually have one chief conductor, but that
person would rarely be available for an audition, and usually
moves on to the next job in a few years later anyway. So, the
conductor doesn’t have much input anyway. It’s the called the
"board of back benchers”, you know, the third trombone and
fourth double bass who would make all the decisions about who
will play because they’re not so busy, and they need money.

AC: It’s very much how you play on that one day.

TK: I know! And so often in the end, it'smin this country,
it’s very much on how you get on socially with the crowd too.
Because some of the conditions that we play under are pretty
bad. The halls are not comfortable. Mostly, we play in
ridiculously low temperatures such as whilst in a church. Our
union laws are not always invoked. Because we don’t have
security, players tend to put up with anything. If there’s
bad lighting, you rarely complain. Ridiculous journeys. we
had to fly the Atlantic one day and rehearse in New York when
we got there. No other symphony in the continent would put up
with that. Because every orchestra wants to be at the
[traveling] cut-price rates, they compete against the other
ones being chosen. And so, in order to survive those sort of
conditions, in coach journeys that are much too long, in
order to save a flight, the price of itmthen when you get
there-—

End of Tape TWO, Side One

126

Tape TWO, Side Two
AC: What orchestras have you played in?

TK: A lot, a lot. Well, the two chief ones, that are
mentioned in the Groves article: the London Mozart Players
for about thirty years, concurrently with the English Chamber
Orchestra for about fourteen. [I did] much sort of last-
minute deputizing in the Royal Philharmonic, the London
Philharmonic, the LS0, and umpteen other orchestras whose
names are forgotten and long since have disappeared, all part
of the freelance scene. Anyone could get on a show with an
orchestra. Like this Little Orchestra of London with Leslie
Jones who was a rich amateur. Or if some young conductor
tries to launch himself. There was one called The Mozart
Orchestra to distinguish it from the London Mozart Players.

It’s just really a freelance scene. But, with the English
Chamber Orchestra, I would reckon to be asked to be principal
and the same with the Mozart one all the time I was there.
There were those of us who were so-called members though that
was just a loose term. We were given a kind of advanced
schedule of the work they hoped to do, so that we could set
aside the dates. Because, very often we would find it would
clash with a concerto date or something we had already taken
on in two years notice. And, then suddenly four months into
that, there would be some big tour. I was to tour Japan, but
had one date in Ireland. Of course, I had to do it since I
signed a contract. So, with the chamber orchestra, there was
no such thing as a contract, just a sort of gentleman’s
agreement that I would be there. Perhaps next week I wouldn’t
be there if they decided they had enough of me and found
somebody they liked better, but I was lucky.

AC: How many solo appearances have you made with orchestras,
like concertos?

TK: On what time scale?

AC: Total solo appearances with an orchestra, for an example
a premiere of a concerto?

TK: I couldn’t tell you. I don’t know. I would do a couple a
year, maybe six or seven, sometimes less than that. Very
often for tours to South America, Japan, Hong Kong, for
instance, we’d use soloists from the orchestra and that sort
of thing. Then, other English orchestras would come out of
the blue. For example, an orchestra in South Hampton, which
was basically an amateur orchestra, engaged professional
soloists, usually to do Mozart.

Then this Crusell got known a bit through recordings and
that, to be honest, was very pleasant because that was

127

relatively easy to play by a provincial orchestra. But, as
for things like Finzi, I did a lot of appearances with some
of these chamber orchestras that are situated in places such
as Newcastle, Manchester, and Birmingham.

In the southwest of the England, there used to be a wonderful
orchestra called the Balmoral Symphonietta which would cover
all those those very, very cut-off villages and towns. It is
mostly a holiday area down there. [It has a] beautiful
coastline and all that, but a very small population. Big
symphony orchestras never visited there. So, this little
chamber orchestra was formed as an offshoot of the Balmoral
Symphony Orchestra, and [this Symphonietta] would go around
touring with pieces like the Mozart Concerto with not too
many players. And, those were quite fun to me.

And then suddenly, overnight, or it seemed like overnight,
they called the players for a meeting. A lot of people find
work very difficult to get in London. Very good players had
opted to go and be leaders of the sections in some of those
little outside orchestras like that because there was a
definite volume of work, visiting the outback. And then, they
were called for a meeting one day and were told that the
orchestra didn’t exist any longer. And [the players] had sold
their London houses, moved their kids from education there.
Once you move out of London, you can never get back.

So, that kind of work disappeared. Because the Balmoral
Symphony of course was suffering like the other orchestras;
so, it could no longer support this little offshoot which had
been doing such good work. So, the southwest, I doubt, will
get any professional orchestra touring. Very sad.

But I guess television, CDs, and all that supply people’s
needs very well for those people who don’t care whether they
hear things live, or not. When you think of how many people
worldwide never hear a live instrument at all, music to them
is coming out a speaker, not people.

AC: It’s interesting. I teach, or help teach, a class in
music appreciation. A lot of these people are non-musicians
or only played in high school. One of their projects is to go
to a live concert and write a small paper. Their observations
are interesting: A live performance does not compete with a
CD. Then they want to come to more concerts.

TK: Yes, I think if it’s encouraged,mI think that’s what we
have to do, get them moving. There’s no excuse. During the
war, there was little or no petrol for people to get around.
They used to flock to concerts because it was a wonderful
timemuplift. And, of course, orchestras used to travel around
a great deal and play concerts everywhere they could. There
were a lot of concerts in churches, you know, especially this

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time of year. I was playing in a big cathedral on Friday

night down in Wells, absolutely wonderful. Then, you’re apt
to pick up the tourism that happens. They arrange a week or
two of art exhibitions and local musical activities and the
odd professional thing. Local businesses put money into it.

These churches make very good concert halls in the summer
because they stand a bit of chance of them being warm enough
to sit in. We did do one two weeks ago. (We had this very
cold weather here. We really did.) I had the central heating
on, very ”real" weather. It was a really drafty [hall] down
in Sussex. The clarinet filled with water as it always does
when you have that kind of situation.

And, not a big audience, but it was a little festival which
you could talk to them about the music. And it was much
appreciated, but a very minority audience, mostly elderly
people.

During wartime, of course, all those people were younger, and
they formed music clubs which went on long after the war. And
they would walk or cycle, you know. It was quite safe to go
out at night. It was a: ”We’re in danger together” sort of
thing.

But now, everybody’s got cars; there’s no excuse. Public
transport has even improved a lot. It used to be very
difficult getting home after a concert. The railways are
privatized. They run more late trains, and it helps if you
live in a small town. It has also helped musicians, London
musicians. There never used to be a train that went 120 miles
away. You were driving through fog and all this stuff. Before
the motorways were built, it took four hours. You can now get
on about two or three now. Now you can even get a train back
at 11:00 at night and be home by 1:00. It’s fantastic. You
come from Birmingham to London and do a concert and go back
again, which never happened before. But still it’s hard to
get them away from the television!

AC: we need to get them to turn it off! Which is hard to dom
TK: Yes!

AC: What are some of your future plans, performing or
recording?

TK: No, I don’t want to do any more recordings. I can’t think
of any other pieces that I feel strongly about. Most of all
this stuff has been because I’ve felt it was just criminal
that nobody knew they were there. A lot of the composers were
still alive. Arnold Cooke is still alive. Very, very frail
and mentally senile now. [I] just wanted those pieces to be
heard, particularly things that were in connection with

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Thurston. It was such a shame that he hadn’t lived long
enough to really be able to go around and play them to people
which was his whole idea, to show what had been written for
the clarinet and how lucky he was. So, I managed to do a lot
of that.

Then, I don’t know whatmI want to play chamber music with
friends and above all chamber music with piano, I’m afraid,
because that’s where all the big stuff is, and to somehow
pick up on wheremon what I had to drop when the clarinet and
orchestral world took over. And that is very exciting. We’re
going to feature these English composers like [John] Ireland
and Frank Bridge in the other role which I first met them
before the clarinet pieces were written. Growing up, I was
playing a lot of John Ireland on the piano with violin and
cello.

And, a lot of the people that I know through orchestral
connections are feeling the same way, that they’re having
enough trekking around with orchestras, and that they are
getting going with just small concerts; a lot them are
charity concerts, summer music clubs and festival concerts.

We played the Trout quintet last week. That, to me, was the
most incredible adventure. Great, great pieces. I’ll never be
good enough to play them well, but if I can just make out.

I have wonderful piano lessons with a friend who I once made
a broadcast of Hummel with. I met him during a chamber piece
atmone of those BBC producers was doing a whole series on
Hummel who was very neglected. Some delightful stuff came up
for guitar, violin, clarinet. Then, when I wanted tomI was
sort of thrown into piano playing again to help out with the
orchestra on tour, trying to imitate a harp part perhaps, or
playing for rehearsals if a soloist came along. I also in
Bermudamwhat did I do? Aaron Copland’s Appalachian Spring. It
has a huge piano part. When you’re a small band touring
about, you can’t carry a pianist to play just one
performance. So, I really got the message.

Really it was pushed at me to play the piano. So, I thought,
“I've got to have some lessons, I’m notmas I say, I wasn’t
ever technically first-class on either instrument. So,
somehow, after looking around, I came across this guy from
the Hummel date, and I found that he was absolutely onmjust
thought the same way about music. He’d grown up at the same
time; he’s now in his fifties, you see. He’s done some
wonderful work, teaching and playing chamber music himself.
And [for me] to play the Trout, he let me have his copy with
all his marking and fingerings. And, he’s taught me all sorts
of basic things about the piano thatmI was never shown
anything. I never studied scales with my particular
professor. So, I’ve started, as a sideline, to try to play

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stuff at concerts, really starting piano from the beginning
and doing loads of studies and all these things I’ve never
done before.

AC: That would be interesting.

TK: It’s just miraculous! If I’d done that at [an earlier]
age, I would have hated it. And moreover, this guy plays
piano duets. We do recitals. To play next to somebody is like
riding in a Rolls Royce car for me. Absolutely brilliant.
Because we sort of spark off each other musically as well,mI
just respect his taste, his ideas of phrasing, everything. So
we have a ball because it’s so improvisatory and alive when
we perform. He can play all the difficult stuff, and I bumble
along. So, that’s what I want to do if I live long enough to
enjoy all of that.

But it’s very difficult to go on, getting the same thrill out
of the same few clarinet pieces, you know, even the
masterpieces. Because, inevitably, you remember some fabulous
performance you did with certain colleagues who are perhaps
no longer, and it’s hard to get it going with somebody else.

I did some really nice chamber music with Menuhin when he was
in charge of the Bath Festival. Often, they have some big
figurehead who helps decide programs and who sticks around
for the week and does concertos, and does chamber music, and
solos and invites some of the orchestra. (There was a thing
called Bath Festival Orchestra there.) Then, that resulted
with us touring, not with Menuhin himself, but with those
colleagues. we went out with a clarinet, string trio and
piano ensemble and did various combinations, all of us four.
The concerts we did with Menuhin were very instructive; we
did television programs in France. It was great.

It’s just a game of chance, Andrea. That’s all it is!

AC: So, that’s what I can get out of today!

TK: It’s never saying ”no" to something because you think: Oh
dear, no I’m not sure. I can't do that. I don’t want to do
that. Everything you do, find some refreshing point later on.
It’s extraordinary.

Master classes are something that I’m really quite shy of. I
don’t know how I’m supposed to do that. It’s become some such
a terribly, sort of, commercial, ego pushing thing. Have you
been to many of those sort of things?

AC: Three or four. I findmI understand what you’re saying.

TK: Yes. What is it about? Is it about promotion of the
”master"? Is it about entertaining the audience? Is it about

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showing your ideas of the music? Or is it about trying to
“wrinkle" out what the candidates have to offer? How can you
do all that in public anyway?

So, I’ve been on one or two summer courses in England with
this friend of mine, Joy; she’s brilliant about it. She was a
student back when I first met her and she’s been wonderful at
saying what she thinks and getting on with it and getting
confidence to the students. She’s just marvelous, and she
enjoys that, because we’re performing with them and getting
them going. And, I can’t stand it.

I like listening to young players doing some kind of jury,
perhaps to get grant money, some kind of competition. That I
find really interesting. I find that I’ve gotmI think I’ve
got a good nose, ear for that. Even if I don’t end up
choosing what the majority chooses. That doesn’t matter at
all. I love to see the signs of imagination, commitment and
emotional input to music. And, do away with all the others
who are just lacking with no originality. And, the Poulenc
Sonata - aah!

AC: You’ve probably heard that many times!

TK: Yes, I think that takes a lot to play that well. Not a
good piece. But to make something of it. It has a lot to do
with the ”literal" way they’re taught: to try to obey every
dot, slur, and misprint, and everything. And they don’t
recognize a misprint. Terrible.

So, as I’ve been able to afford to refuse those things
lately, I do refuse them! I’ve also worked with the National
Youth Orchestra and one or two orchestras where you have to
try and sort of weld six or seven clarinets into a section.
I’ve made very good friends through meeting many of those
young people, meeting them in the profession later, but I
felt very, very uncomfortable about doing it. It caused me a
lot of worry beforehand. WOnderful relief afterwards, but to
go and work in a few days or week in that kind of set-up, I
found so difficult.

AC: Because of the expectations of you?

TK: Again, it's because of the group thing and expecting to
sort of ignite them. I didn’t feel I had really enough
knowledge of, at that stage, of all the different clarinets
there were. They brought along all different ones and they
got them all going. All different teachers, different sounds.
I found it so hard. Interesting, but really difficult.

AC: And you had such a small time to work with them,

TK: That’s right. Really, all I ever wanted to do was play

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alongside people much better than myself. I was lucky to do
that most of the time.

AC: Who are some of the English clarinet players who are new
and ”up and coming"?

TK: Well, there are a few whomI’m trying to think of the age
category, getting towards the late twenties that I feel that
they might get somewhere. There wouldn’t be people who you’ve
ever heard of, though I might be wrong. This girl, Lyndsey
Marsh, has just landed this big symphony job up in
Manchester. We have a thing in Europe called the European
Community Youth Orchestra (ECYO) and she’s been in that.
Anyone from the common market can compete. This has been a
great thing because it has brought wind players together with
their continental equals. And, most of the English players
have been very lucky at getting jobs, because our training
happens to make them brilliant at reading. They always do
pieces quickly whereas the continental way is to stick with
it for six years. We don’t have the money to do that, you
know. They used to have to be out within three years; now
it’s four years. And this girl, Lyndsey, she got into that.
She auditioned, and got in at a very young age. So, then she
got lots of chances to meet up with foreign players. And they
have people to coach them from some of the big continental
orchestras. All these international, European wind players.
So, she’s picked up on a lot of extra stuff, as well having a
Cambridge degree to start with, then a year with us at the
Guildhall. She just raced through all that. And those are the
people who succeed.

So, I can tell that people with a university degree before
they get around to polishing up the instrumental side,
probably get on best. That’s how I feel because you have to
be musically on the ball to survive in the freelance thing.
Because, the variety of work is going to be anything from
jazz to avant garde, and all the symphony repertoire, all the
chamber repertoire.

And this girl has done very well. She auditioned for the BBC,
and she gets the odd chamber music cycle. She’s formed a
group of her own, and she’s been in the run for various
auditions. Like for the BBC Welsh Orchestra, she was one of
the last two. She did weeks of work for them and then a guy
was chosen, also a pupil of mine, in the end. So, I would put
money on her.

And another guy called Barnaby Robson who was thought to be a
disaster when he was at the Guildhall. He changed teachers
and got to Joy. She managed to find out that why he seemed to
be so dimwitted was that he was dyslexic. They all thought he
was very musical, but she managed to get him going. Nobody
thought he’d ever get a job in an orchestra because he

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couldn’t read quickly enough. So, he decided he would have a
go at what we call “the yellow clarinet"; he would be a
specialist in old instruments. Of course for that, you have
to be able to play many eras of instruments. So, he got going
on that. He went to have a few lessons with Anthony Pay. Is
that a name that you know, or not?

AC: Yes.

TK: Well, [Pay] unfortunately has very much opted out of the
main British scene where it’s mostly abroad. He so fell in
love with the old instruments. He loves the sound they make,
and his sound is very muchmhis sound on any clarinet is very
related to that. It’s very nice and pure. So, he helped
Barnaby to get going, to play in some of thesemmany, many
orchestras, as you know, that feature all various stages [of
clarinets] right after Brahms now. So, Barnaby got quite good
at that. The music is fairly simplistic, and they do a lot of
rehearsing, tours all over the place. He got a lot of
confidence.

Suddenly, he got chances to do the deputizing in the
Philharmonia Orchestra. I don’t know if it was through chance
because their principal suddenly left. So, they’ve been
trying out a whole lot of young players that they’ve heard of
from the sort of late twenties, early thirties era [age
range]. I hear that he’s been doing terribly well. That’s
very thrilling because he was one of Joy's success stories. I
heard him first as a school boy. I thought, ”Golly, he's so
musical to play the clarinet like that." But, it’s very
gratifying when somebody that really had the musical basis
actually then succeeds in getting the job. It’s the same
thing with the boy who got the job in the Welsh because he
was not going to a college of music. He went to Bristol
University.

Some of them begin quite well. Indeed both of those students,
they were at a specialist music school. I don’t know if you
have any of those? We have something called the Menuhin
School. They pick talented youngsters and they set them up in
some old country house down in the country where they have a
very good academic scheme for the ordinary subjects. But,
they have to get up about six in the morning for oral
training and then do three hours of practice. You know, they
really grill them. It hasn’t been terribly successful, but
some of them go on when they leave there. There are two or
three other schools that do the same. One is in Manchester,
not in the country, but right there in the center of the
musical area where the BBC Northern Orchestra is and the
Royal Northern College of Music. So, they are brought up in a
more normal community.

Now, both of these kids, who got these jobs in these

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orchestras in the last few weeks, came from there. So, in
other words, although they went to university, throughout the
school year, they were able to practice. That's the chief
thing. Because mostly, they’ve discontinued music in schools
in this country, one of the brilliant government's ideas.

So, they have some kind of, sort of, occasional event where
people go in and try to get the kids together and give them a
rattle and a pipe and they make a composition together.
That’s supposed to be a substitute for all music teaching we
used to have in the past. So, it’s almost essential now, if
you’ve got a bright young student to try to go to one of
these specialist music schools. Some [schools] do well in
winds, some in strings, some in piano; that Manchester one is
pretty wide across the board. So, in other words, once they
go to university, they’ve already got their technique. Then
they polish off again. I’ve got one now at the Guildhall. She
has a degree candidate at Cambridge. Now, she’s doing two
years with us. She did not go to a specialist music school,
so she's got a lot of technique catching up to do. But she's
a delightful musician and is getting around to it all quite
well.

It’s chance again, you know. Whether you get the right
advancement or right advice and opportunities. But, it does
worry me when I see a lot of the music colleges now featuring
foreign students. The [Guildhall] is full of Japanese. I’m
sure a lot of your universities are the same. Do you have the
same thing?

AC: Somewhat.

TK: And, they charge them exorbitant fees, much more than
they would for be for English students. I don’t know how your
fees go. Would you say that they are the same for foreigners
as for Americans?

AC: I think they are the same; I’m not sure.

TK: well, ours are five, six times as much. It’s ridiculous.
So, of course, what do they do? They take in as many Japanese
or whatever as they can.

AC: To get their moneym

TK: And the British kids fail their audition that way. I feel
bad about that.

Your schools are different because you’ve got this huge
country and many centers of excellence all around. This
country is allmright down to London. So, London is always
going to turn out be the center of excellence. It can’t help
it. However much you set up Manchester and Birmingham; they

135

can't ever compete. Everybody comes to London.
AC: That’s interesting.

TK: Oxford and Cambridge don’t run an instrumental
department. There may be people who teach well up there, but
it’s not part of a course. But you can do music degrees at
some of these other universities, but it's mostly to do with
composition. There’s a small playing element in it. It
doesn’t carry any weight when you go to get a job with a
degree from South Hampton, which is very musical, they say,
“Oh well, you know, it’s not the same as one from the
Guildhall, or even from Cambridge." But that could never
happen [in England].

[Speaking about orchestral auditions]
TK: For orchestral situations, you have enormous competition,
don’t you? You have blindfold auditions, don’t you?

AC: Yes. Is it the same?

TK: No. I may have had it once or twice. All the girls take
off their shoes [in the United States]. Elsa's pupils told me
that one.

In fact, when we had one of these Friday night “play-ins" (it
was over at Elsa’s place), there were certain people who had
auditions coming up or exams. It was in the spring time.
There was one girl who was definitely doing the rounds of all
the auditions she could. So, she said that she would like to
play all her audition pieces and nobody would comment, just a
chance to play them all through. So, she came in, and said,
“Well, this is going to be blind audition. I want you all to
turn around.” And they said “No!" So, she did!

AC: That would be an odd experience!

TK: I met some really nice people there. A couple of them
used to write and keep in touch. One of them joined a big
band in Washington and when they toured England, he phoned me
up and invited me to tea at the Savoy Hotel, or some
traditional thing that Americans do. It was so nice of him.

Another one took me to his home; he had a parrot. Both of
them, alas, separated from their wives. They were just newly
married at that time. Very sad. And one got a jobmthe one
with the parrot, got a job in Albuquerque, or somewhere
around there, a very nice situation. He was busy also
teaching the other wind instruments. I think you go for that
quite a bit, don’t you?

AC: Yes.

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TK: You don’t really like to have to do that, you know. In
fact, youngsters often have to go teach an instrument that
they don't play. Therefore, I think we ought to teach them to
do that really, but it’s very much frowned upon. I think
that’s a shame because there is a lot of harm being done
there and nobody’s admitting to it.

AC: We often teach saxophone as well.

TK: Saxophone is becoming very popular here. It used not to
be. A lot of them are trying to make a career out of it,
forming themselves in quartets. There’s one girl, again from
Royal Academy, who's left now, but she was in a big
competition that we have annually. It has four different
categories and the big prize is to play in the biggest London
hall. She was in the final [round]; she won the all wind
categories. Of all the wind and brass, and she was the best
one. It happened that she plays the trumpet as well. Most
unusual girl with great musicality. Anyway, several of the
jury thatmI was not feeling well, I did not get along to hear
her, unfortunatelymthey really would like to have thought she
was worth the prize. But, of course, she was competing
against a singer, a pianist, a violinist. I think there were
four categories. So, naturally they had wonderful repertoire
to play. She chose very well. we warned her to try and play
some so-called “classy" stuff. That's very hard on the
saxophone, you know. What to chose when competing with some
beautiful aria from an opera, or something?

AC: Sure.

TK: Anyway, she wasn’t very put out by that. She’s going on
to do some other big competitions. She asked me write her a
reference for something or other, I can’t remember. For money
maybe, to go and study with some of the big saxophone players
like Eugene Rousseau, and all the big-wigs.

It’s funny when people get attracted to an instrument like
that, and they make it do what they want to. There’s a couple
of otherma young man too who's managing to get the foremost
composers of the day, this guy called Mark Anthony Turnage,
whose written for several works for him, really very far out,
very interesting things. So, he’s really putting the
saxophone on the map in the contemporary scene which it’s,
after all, how it’s always been done from Mozart and weber
and onwards. You've got to make your point: that you can do
something with your instrument. I’ve never been that way.
I’ve always thought, ”Well, the instrument is not the first
thing. That’s a nice piece of music. I better learn that
instrument, or else I won’t be able to play it."

If you’re talking about youngsters. Those are the two that

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I’ve had contact with. But, the young man who’s not a
beginner and not up and coming, who’s "arrived” in this
country is Michael Collins. Have you heard of him?

AC: Yes.

TK: Now again, a fantastic all-around musician, a virtuoso
pianist. When he was in college, he sort of kept [his piano
playing] quiet since it was a second study. But, he was
studying the late Beethoven sonatas as a kid, and was just,
sort of, not letting on how many hours a day he was
practicing at the piano which was considerable, of course.
Many more than the clarinet.

He had such facility on the clarinet at thirteen. He had
gotten at the top of many competitions. So, he was put on the
road to international situations, as soloist, when he was
only about seventeen, or so. And, he was trying to be a
student at the Royal College which was very difficult because
he wasn't all that strong either which made it very
difficult. He’s got that fantastic musicality, you see. So,
he’s not just a wind payer blasting through the notes when he
plays. A lot of people think his clarinet playing isn’t
perfect or sophisticated enough or don’t think he’s got a
rich enough sound. He can tackle anything. People write the
most hair-raising stuff for him; he can play anything. He’s
gradually maturing. He used to be a real, you know, “quick
silver", too fast for anything. But, now he’s in his
thirties, and he’s married a wonderful violinist from
Holland. And he’s had a child which is absolutely marvelous;
he’s had a son. And, that’s matured him. So, he’s no longer
such a tear-about. I would put him.right up at the top of our
clarinet players, the English ones.

The one who has the most publicity is Emma Johnson who’s not
really rated by most clarinet players, probably because
they’re jealous. She won this television contest when she was
fifteen, or something. And so, of course a huge string of
engagements came. She’s very pretty, and she’s personality
conscious. She really gets into all these promotions a great
deal, enjoys it and has people working for her. She’s
commissioned pieces. She’s never boring; she has originality.
But she never went to a college to study the clarinet. She
decided to go to Cambridge to study English. But, I’m sure
that she realized that the clarinet and the few pieces was
not going to last a lifetime. She has a good intellect. So,
she’s been hyped up. She’s not into orchestral playing, or
anything like that. So, she’s no menace to the boys.

But, who else is there? Who else is English that you think
of?

AC: Victoria Soames?

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TK

Victoria Soames. She doesn’t really do anything.
AC: No?

TK: She made records. Her brother, organized this Cmehat do
you call it?ma firm called Clarinet Classics which began by
doing some really interesting players of the past, and now
it’s become mostly a vehicle for promoting Victoria. I think
she earns quite well doing bits of chamber orchestra work
like we all do.

It’s interesting to get your view from the outside.

AC: It seems that there are many more English women clarinet
players that are well-known than in America.

TK: Yes, because all the men are busy earning their living in
orchestras. Once they get into an orchestra, they lose the
kind of steam for wanting to, sort of, branch out. And when
they do play, it’s usually very good playing, but it doesn't
have any special feature about it because they are so used to
doing exactly what the conductor or the rest of the section
requires. If they ever have any opinion about how you play a
Beethoven work, it’s long ago been washed out by having to
play it for a different conductor every week, who wants
something different. Mostly, they’re very disillusioned about
any kind of solo work.

As I say, Anthony Pay is really our most mature of the
[English] people who still do a lot of solo work and stuff.
But, we hardly see anything of him, and I don’t know where he
gets to. I don’t think he’s been to America at all. Gervase
De Peyer hasn't quite make a comeback that he hoped he’d be
able to do.

AC: You said that he’s back in England now?

TK: Yes, probably more. I think he has a connection, some
kind of teaching connection in Washington. But, he’s probably
made enough money to be alright now, comfortably off, doesn’t
have to worry too much. He’s bought a modern kind of flat in
this new development down in ”dockland." There are got
upmarket house which all overlook what used to be docks. Now
they’ve developed it into lakes and things and Canary Wharf,
the famous building, is down there. There’s very posh office
blocks that the Japanese run.

So, that’s all redevelopment of the area, funny enough, where
my grandfather had his furniture factory. My mother was born
right there in Canary Wharf. All those buildings were so
dilapidated and businesses had moved over, de-centralized and
gone out in the country. So, that area has completely

139

changed, and that’s where Gervase is. It’s way out there.
And, there’s an airport there too. A little runway right
between all these docks which is fun to go on! A quick
commute for business men; it saves them from having to go out
all the way to Heathrow or Gatwick. Just go, train down there
or taxi, and just take off, and be in Paris in half an hour.
It used to be even better than the [English] Channel tunnel.

So, I think that the clarinet is not a popular 3010
instrument. A lot of us feel that way. A lot of us feel it’s
because it doesn't really sound very nice anymore! It’s
changed a lot.

AC: How has the sound changed?

TK: I don’t know what they’re trying to do with it. Just
making it very, sort of, ”honky," more related to the poor
saxophone than the clarinet to my ear, which is unique in
England. It was an attempt to, in the first place, to imitate
people like Jack Brymer who came from the saxophone and
changed it all since Thurston’s day. And it’s the imitators
of that style, I think, which have lost the central vibrance
of the note and substituted a rather, what we call, "honk."
And that’s being taught to a lot of players this day.

But I think, like everything, it’s probably being equaled, if
not outdone, by a return to a more normal, purer sound
because a lot of people are meeting up with continentals now,
as I say, in these youth orchestras. And these two kids which
just I gave you the names of, RobertmI didn’t give you Robert
Plane’s name, did I?

AC: No.

TK: [He’s] in the Welsh Orchestra. You should put him down; a
lot of people would rate him. He got this job that this
Lyndsey missed in the BBC Welsh. But she’s really better than
him, just a better player. But, he’s started to get a bit
known as a soloist as well. He’s the one who went to Bristol
University, and was at the same school as Lyndsey, up there.
He’s made a few recordings, but I find his sound ismI tried
to teach him while he was at the University. Musically, he
was wonderful. But of course, a lot people don't think that’s
what you need in a symphony orchestra. I think he’s mellowed
a bit, but he went to the Royal Academy where it got worse
again. However, he's a convincing player, and you never know
what might happen.

But there’s really no other country that wants to make that
sort of noise. You cross the channel and it all gets better!
Or America. A lot of people are really unkind of American

players. I don’t know. we don't hear the right people maybe.

140

AC: What's the perception of American playing?

TK: Just a bit brash, perhaps. Perhaps not cultured enough or
not covered enough in the sound. Just maybe what we’re trying
to do when we get this honking.

But, the two people that I have thought have been the most
wonderful in person in America, in the older school, are
[Franklin] Cohen, who I got to know very well in the Munich
jury a couple years ago (he’s just lovely) and Richard
Marcellus. In fact, I persuaded a pupil of mine to go over to
America to study with [Marcellus]. It was not a success, but
she found a husband there, which is great. [laughs] Because I
couldmI got so many wonderful shocks every time I perhaps
half listened to the radio and I heard Marcellus's sound
coming over and then realized again that it was the Cleveland
[Symphony Orchestra] that had awaken me. So, I actually met
him.when we went on tour in the U.S. After this girl had been
to study with him for a bit, but he never really sort of
thought anything of her. She never could get on with what he
was trying to get her to do. Anyway, she turned into a
recorder player and found this loving husband, so that was
alright.

So, you tell me then.mElsa, I simply adore, I thought that
her playing was out of this world when she came over. I could
not admire it enough; it was wonderful. And so did the kids
at the Guildhall.

You can’t fault her. Instinctively, she's such a musician.
What other Americans have I heard? Loads and loads of them
from all those various university jobs. Tell me some more.

AC: Richard Stoltzman, Larry Combs-

TK: The famous onemLarry, I like very much. I haven’t heard
him for much solo work. The other onemShifrin, he’s an
interesting guy. I quite like what he does. But, usually I
like him very much in his one field rather than in the
general classics. I would like to hear him more. I heard him
in Denver years ago before I knew him at all, doing two items
in the same concert, the big concert. The first was Artie
Shaw [COncerto] and the other was the Mozart. He played them
both in the same evening. They were both brilliant.

Stoltzman, I’ ve known..I’ ve worked with him several times. We
did Mendelssohn Concertstficke with orchestra together. He
ought to be let loose somewhere!

But, I think [Stoltzman] has some lovely things about his
playing when he’s not trying to be clever. He came and played
with our orchestra at one of these Barbican concerts and the
idea was to do the Weber [Concerto No. 2] in the first half

141

and then we’d play the Mendelssohn together (I played the
basset horn), in the second half. And that was fine. we
rehearsed, and I followed him around. It was no problem at
all; I’m used to doing that kind of thing. So, the BBC
decided that they’d like to tape us, so that the guy was
fixing up the microphone at the rehearsal. And, Stoltzman is
just parading around! This gentleman would come out, ”Where’s
he gone?" He suddenly lost the clarinet sound! And I think he
did the same at the show!

AC: Oh dear!

TK: Anyway, we played this piece, you know, and he lopped
about and I justmanyway, he thought it was a real rave-up, so
we did all that. [We] played our cadenzas really freely, and
he thought it was lovely that I didn’t mind mucking about.
And, then at the end, somebody brings out a bouquet to give
to me, you see. Of course, they don’t always don’t give
flowers to men, which I think is very wrong. It was beautiful
purple irises. So, you do what the ballet dancer does; you
take out a flower, and give it to the man. So, I handed it to
him. The blossom fell off!

AC: Oh, no!

TK: He has the stalk. He looks at this, and the audience
bursts out laughing. And, he sticks it up the clarinet! Oh
dear! [Laughing] The audience at home wondered what on earth
was going on!

And who’s the other person you mentioned? Stoltzman and,
well, Neidich, I suppose. I think he’s probably a very, very
accomplished player. But, then you hear something like the
Rossini piece which at the best of times, is very poor, and
he makes the cadenza, or somebody does [for him],
recapitulating all that rubbish at the end. I just can’t
believe it. Have you heard that recording?

AC: I don’t think I have.

TK: He certainly sticks in a five minute cadenza just before
the last five bars. Very clever, doing all sorts of double-
tonguing stuff.

But, [Neidich’s] been wonderful. He taught this Barnaby
Robson that I’m telling you about. Now, that’s another
interesting that happened to [Barnaby], apart from the yellow
clarinet. [Barnaby’s] people, I think, are not poor which was
very useful for him. He decided he’d have a go at getting in
Julliard. He sent a tape not expecting to be accepted, but he
was accepted. So, his parents must have financed him going
over there. And, he learned with Neidich, and he said it was
quite wonderful the way he analyzed his playing and helped

142

him. So, Barnaby, just for the hell of it, decided to enter a
competition for Julliard students. The competition meant
playing the Copland [Concerto]. He won it, against the
American students as well. And, he gave several performances
of it; one was at the Lincoln Center.

And, we were just astonished that he managed to do that. That
was one of those thingsmyou never know when somebody is going
to step forward and find a way. That’s why I am so glad that,
you know,mwe’ve got our own students being condemned to be in
academic life for three years. They’re not even allowed to
play much in the fourth year.

End of Tape TWO

143

Tape Three, Side One

[Discussing possible pieces to play for the author’s lecture-
recital at Michigan State University.]

TK: Have you done anything from our English repertoire at
all, like Finzi or any of those things?

AC: I’ve done the Concerto and the Bagatelles.

TK: The Bagatelles. Yes, the obvious things. Well, you could
always do that Maconchy Fantasy. I’ll get it and show it to
you.

It’s on the cerebral side, this piece. It’s not highly
colored. And, this was like her sort of motto theme. And then
she uses it invertibly in chords. It sort of is in the
background all the way through. Fairly declamatory, some of
it. It’s more of the continental style rather than the
English Romantics. The English Romantics came out of Stanford
and Brahms and that sort of thing. Elgar. Finzi was an Elgar
fiend. [Maconchy] always took more interest in Barték than
what was happening on the continent. 80, her music is more
astringent, very definite, but it’s strong intellectually.
She’s got this middle section which is more reflective, still
really using the same thing.

Thenmshe’s an Irish lady actually by birthmshe turns it into
a jig. Nice little rhythmic things go on there. It gradually
dies down until it gets back to the same thing. Then she
states this opening motive again with fantastically rich
chords underneath. And, then it dies away. So, it’s
compositionally very interesting if you like that sort of
thing.

And that was definitely commissioned by me, but was paid for
by the British Arts Council. I didn’t have to pay for it. I
had just decided that I wanted her because she had written
two clarinet concertos which as I say, Jack had played, so I
felt I wanted to have her write something. And it does
mention the [Clarinet] Congress here, when it was played. 80,
if you wanted to do something that has my name definitely on
itm

This one too you might do, this Gordon Jacob [Mini-Concerto].
Yes, that’s much more old-fashioned, much more light. That’s
on one of my records too with string orchestra. It made a
very good piano part. In fact, I did play it probably at MSU.
I must have given a recital there at the end of my time
[there].

If you want something shorter and lighter. It’s very much in
the French style of wind writing. It’s got a very beautiful

144

romantic slow movement. It might not look like much, but it
has lovely, ”scrunchy" harmonies. And then a less interesting
Gavotte type movement and then a Tarantella to end with. And
that’s very short, about twelve minutes.

Another piece that I did the first performance of is by
William Alwyn. I know that people have liked that William
Alwyn piece [Sonata for Clarinet and Piano]. He was a film
composer, and was sort of in the shadow very much of people
like Ben Britten. At the time, he didn’t get a lot of
inspiration. A friend of mine commissioned a piece, a sonata
from him, which I found that one or two American students
played. I don’t know why I know that; maybe they sent me
tapes of it, or maybe I even heard one. There was a girl
doing her degree at that time that I was [at Michigan State
University], and I think I went to her recital and she played
it. It’s a bit repetitive, but it's more flamboyant and
romantic. I’ve got the Alwyn to show you because that’s more
in the genremI mean, I’m a great fan of him and I don’t want
to oversell to you the business of the John Ireland, the Bax
and the Arnold Cooke which I did. Do you know his music at
all, the Cooke Sonata? Elsa knew it a bit.

AC: I’m not too familiar with him.

TK: He was a pupil of Hindemith and Vaughn Williams. His
music is morema little like Hindemith; definitely likes to
use fourths a lot with kinder harmonies, but strong.

I had a letter from somebody in the USA, somewhere, who’s
made an exhaustive study of all Arnold Cooke’s clarinet
pieces. [Cooke] wrote a quintet, a concerto. Two concertos
and a sonata. [This man] sent me a recording of him playing
the quintet. He was talking about coming over to study. They
all say they are coming, but they never make it!

I’ll show you [Three Pieces by] John McCabe. Do you know it?
AC: No.

TK: I’m not crazy about his stuff. But the Verdehr Trio
played a first performance of his trio when they came over in
March, and he came along. So, Elsa obviously thinks very
highly of him.

Now this is the Alwyn [Sonata]. He was much more romantic.
This is all about seagulls sweeping up and down; it has a
motive that comes along. It doesn't have a lot of show about
it, but it’s got nice melodies. All this adds up to a nice,
rich sound. Features the clarinet very well. But,
unfortunately, it keeps going in that rhythm. But very active
and it does appeal a lot to Americans, I find. In many ways,
it’s more old-fashioned thanmit goes back to the John Ireland

145

era; [Alwyn] was more of that generation.

Now, [the Alwyn], I did the first performance of. It doesn’t
tell you about the details. [The score] says ”To Anthony
Friese-Greene." Oh look, it’s autographed! [Friese-Greene]
was a BBC producer who ran a little music club. He used to
commissioned pieces for it. And the Cooke was also
commissioned by him nineteen years ago. It’s rather ordinary.

[The Jacob] is not like anything in particular; it’s more
unusual.

AC: It looks interesting.

TK: I would have thoughtmof those three, even though it's a
concerto, it doesn’t matter playing this with the piano. It
really doesn’t.

I like the idea of this one [Maconchy] because it is
connected with Denver [Clarinet Congress] as well.

Do you have any more questions on your list?

AC: I think we covered most of them! I really enjoyed
speaking with you.

TK: We should have covered something in the time that you’ve
been here!

146

Appendix B

Transcript of Interview taken with
Pamela weston at her home in
Hythe, England on July 26 and 27, 2000

Tape One, Side One

Pamela Weston: Frederick Thurston is crucial, actually.
That’s why I’ve done anything at all. He's such a wonderful
playerma wonderful teacher as far as inspiring you and making
you do it. If I had a technical problem, he wasn’t good
because he was a natural player.

Andrea Cheeseman: Couldn’t explain it?
PW: He didn't know it, himself!

Of course my starting [to play the clarinet] at twenty [years
old] was very late. I was already quite a good pianist and I
had to earn my living, as it were, by teaching. So it was
difficult. I had quite a very difficult time, technically, to
begin with.

My original idea had been to be an orchestral player because
it was his orchestra playing, one of his solos, that I found
to be inspiring.

AC: What was the performance of his that inspired you to
play?

PW: It was the performance of the Mozart COncerto that I
heard on the radio. Then I was able to go to hear him. But,
his orchestra solos, theme and variations and that sort of
thing, were just fantastic. But the extraordinary thing was
that I hardly did any orchestral playing myself, just a
little in small chamber orchestras, but I got launched into
3010 work quite unexpectedly. It just came my way!

AC: Did you play the clarinet before you were twenty and
heard him play the concerto?

PW: Oh, no! I had never heard the clarinet before as a solo
instrument until that point. But, I loved music. My mother
was really musical.

AC: Yes, I was wondering about your family, if they were
musical.

147

PW: Yes. She was very musical, a very good violinist
actually. I’ve got a brother and sister, and she made sure
that we all had a good basic musical training when we were
young which I am very, very grateful for.

I'm not sure if you’ve ever heard of the Yorke Trotter
Method?

AC: No.

PW: I think it’s ”died out" now. He wrote some books; it’s
still available. It is a very, very good method for teaching
to teenaged children.

And he used to make usmI think I was eight, nine, or ten. We
were taught to memorize. I remember taking part in a
demonstration class. We were sitting off the platform of the
stage. We were each given an eight bar phrasemno, it was four
bars which we had to memorize. And we had to finish the
phrase in our minds with a perfect cadence. Then we had to go
on the platform and play it. Then we had to play it in a
different key. It was an extremely good start!

I’m so sorry that people are not doing the Yorke Trotter
method; it’s so good.

Then my sister and I were sent to a very good school where we
did Dalcroze dancing. Do you know that?

AC: Yes.

PW: Expressing music through dance to gain a self-awareness,
to gain a sense of the body. At that same school was a
teacher who taught English and literature who did what was
called ”Choral Speaking". We would train to use our voices.
we would memorize poems and then spoke them together as a
choir.

So, by the time I’d heard Thurston, I’d done quite a bit of
piano playing and solo work in small concerts. I had a very
good musical grounding.

AC: It sounds like it. Did you play any other instruments
besides the piano?

PW: Not at that time. I’d done a lot of singing, actually.
And I had some singing lessons while I waiting to go to the
Royal Academy [of Music]. After that, I learned languages. I
learned German which I am very grateful, for the research
that came later.

Then I went to the Academy and started on the clarinet,
unfortunately not with Thurston. I learned from George

148

Anderson who was quite a famous player. He was very old, in
his eighties. I still did quite a bit of singing and sang in
choir. Then it was full steam ahead on the clarinet.

But, Mr. George Anderson. He was a sweety. But he was very
old, as I said. He used to sit beside me, so he’d watch me.
And I played as a pianist with bent fingers. I was the
”world’s worst" squeaker! unbelievable!

And then the first lesson I hadmit was all private lessons
with Thurston later on. [Thurston] said, “My dear! Cover the
holes!"

AC: It was a problem!

PW: Sir Henry Wood conducted the student orchestra at the
Royal Academy. After I had been there, for I suppose six
years, sevenmand I watched a lot of rehearsals. One day,
there was only one clarinet, so I went up to the librarian
and asked if I could play. ”Yes, you get up there." After
rehearsal, apparently Sir Henry Wood went to the librarian
and asked, ”For God’s sake, why did you let that girl come
in?" [Laughing]

AC: Oh dear!

PW: Anyway. And then the war came, and I had to earn my
living, so I took a fulltime music post. Then I started
having lessons with Thurston.

AC: This was at the same time?

PW: At the same time. The BBC Symphony Orchestra was
evacuated to Bedford and broadcasted concerts through there,
and he was able to get me a part time job teaching privately
in Bedford High School. And that’s how I first met Thea
[King]! She was a pupil at the school. Did she tell you that?

AC: She didn’t mention how you met, but I knew the BBC
connection.

PW: So, he asked me, ”Do you think you could give her, Thea,
somem" I forget what instrument he asked me tomit must have
been in piano, I think. But she was already a very good
player. Have you heard her piano playing?

AC: No, never.
PW: Well, she’s actually quite recently in the last few years
played sonatasmI think they were all clarinet worksamaybe

she’s done it with a violinistmat public recitals. She’s
really, very good.

149

AC: She mentioned working with violin and viola — working
with string players and how she wants to continue doing that.

PW: Yes. So thenmI couldn’t stand this fulltime job.
AC: How many students did you teach?

PW: It was, I meanmjust at every school. Kids were made to
[take lessons]. 80, then I got a scholarship at the Guildhall
School. But there again, I was not to learn from Thurston
because he taught at the Royal College.

AC: So, then you just took lessons with him after your time
at the Royal Academy and before you went to the Guildhall?

PW: I took lessons with him privately, yes. I first tried for
a scholarship at the [Royal] College [where Thurston taught].
There were two finalists: Gervase de Peyer and myself. And
the principal, who was Sir George Dyson, at that time, was
totally against women going into the profession. And I don’t
know if that was the reason for sure because Gervase played
much better than the "average Joe". I remember when I went
for an interview afterwards, I said, ”Look, I terribly want
to come learn with Thurston. And, I can’t afford the dues."
And he said, ”Pamela, you shouldn't go into the profession.
We’ve only ever had one woman who’s done well as a wind
player." That woman was in the London Symphony Orchestra.

So, that’s why I went to the Guildhall. I am very glad that I
did.

Do you want me to go on talking about this?
AC: Yes, this is what I was planning on asking.

PW: So, at the Guildhall, I think I had three years on a
scholarship, and I won a few prizes. And the opportunities
there were actually far better than if I'd gone either to the
[Royal] College or stayed at the [Royal] Academy because it
was a small school in those days. It is much bigger now. We
had a wonderful principal called Edric Cundell, and he got to
know and made friends with the students who he thought were
worthwhile, me included! He often gave us opportunities
outside of the school to play. I had a wonderful piano
teacher there called Frank Griggs He helped me to do some
recitals in the city of London, playing the clarinet in
various churches. I’ve never forgotten him. we talked about
all sorts of things in my lesson. He knew I wanted a decent
pair of clarinets; it was a very ”groggy" pair that I had. He
said one day, "Pamela, would you like me to lend you the
money to buy those clarinets? It was so wonderful of him. I
was able to say, “No thank you, my mother is going to buy
them for me.” He also was a big influence on me.

150

AC: Did you take clarinet lessons at that time?
PW: Yes I did.
AC: Who was your teacher?

PW: Wilfred Kealey, who is not very well-known at all. Right
from the beginning, I could tell he was not interested in
teaching.

I was able to have the odd private lesson with Thurston. One
wasmhe used to live in a district in south London. One lesson
at his house. He said, “I’d like to go on with this, but I
have to go and play at a Prom tonight. So, we went on top of
the bus to the Albert Hall. And he took me right down in the
dungeons of the Albert Hall and gave me a lesson in the
artist’s room. It was fantastic! I’ve been terribly, terribly
lucky in my teachers.

AC: It sounds like he went out of his way to help his
students.

PW: He was very good to very many of his students. Probably
his most famous one, before Thea came along, was someone
called Pauline Juler.

AC: I've not heard of her.

PW: You’ve not heard of her? Again, it was unusual, at that
time during the war, to have a woman as a wind player. And
she, like me, would go to all these concerts and go around
and say “hello" afterwards. He used to embarrass me by
saying, ”Pauline, this is Pamela. Pamela practices six hours
a day!” [Laughing] we were introduced several times.

It was a great loss to music when [Thurston] died. Such a
shame. But he was a heavy smoker.

AC: During you clarinet lessons and study of the instrument,
what literature did you learn? Was there a certain method
book that you learned from?

PW: Basic studies? The Baermann studies, definitely. And
Frederick Thurston actually wrote a series of threemwere they
called ”Orchestra Studies"?

AC: “Passage Studies". When I was in high school, I worked
through one of the books.

PW: well, that’s good. I am pleased to hear that. I didn’t
know they were known in America.

151

AC: What solos did you study?

PW: I don’t know. It was sixty years ago! I suppose all the
ones I gave my pupils. Actually, now that I think about Mr.
Kealeymit was such a shame. He was such a nice man. He simply
wouldn’t hear my scales because I had started so late, I
needed a lot of hard, basic technical work which I had to do
by myself.

We didn’t do the Brahms sonatas for some time. We did things
like the Charles Lloyd Suite. Do you know that at all?

AC: No.

PW: It’s rather nice, very melodious. He was an English
composer. My teacher had no basic method of teaching, so my
lessons were haphazard.

Then, I was very lucky when the principal, Edric CundellmI
think it was three or four years after I left [the Guildhall]
that he wrote to ask me if I would come and start as
professor. So, for several years I was teaching alongside Mr.
Kealey.

At that time, Thurston was very ill with his cancer. He got
back to work a certain amount of time. He needed the money. I
was able to get him in on judging for competitions and that
sort of thing which we did together and was really
fascinating to have him there.

He thought the best way of catching them out is to get them
to play a three octave chromatic [scale] fortissimo and very
fast, from low to high.

AC: After you graduated from school, what did you do then?
You said you had two or three years before.

PW: I was still, luckily, able to earn my living teaching
piano. And then gradually, while I was still at the
Guildhall, solo work began to come. In fact, I think I did my
first broadcast then. In those days, they were all done live.
It was called “The Music Program" which is our Radio 3 now.
They used to have a daily recital at nine o’clock in the
morning. There were others through the day, of course, but
that was the basic one. I’ve done a lot of them.

I might try, if I was to start again, to do it [live]. Jack
Brymer thinks that too. Of three recordings of the Mozart
that he’s done, he prefers the first one that he did which
was done live, no retakes. Music programs these days can be
dull if they are doctored.

AC: They’re too polished?

152

PW: Yes, that’s right. Anyway, getting on with early morning
broadcasts: they were marvelous. Because in those days the
BBC used to have three official accompanists. They were very,
very good and very well—learned. So, we got maybe a couple of
rehearsals with them.

To get on at nine o’clock in the morning was quite a sight
because you had to have a short rehearsal before and a
balance test. So, it meant getting up at five o’clock. I used
to have my breakfast and then would get myself up to London.
(I wasn't driving a car thenmwell I was in London then; I
lived in Chelsea.) Then do the balance test. There was a
break before the transmission of the show.

And there’s my father who I haven’t mentioned yet. He was a
doctor. Unmusical, but he became a devoted fan. We used to
live in Kent. That was the family home. I lived in London. He
was a doctor in this village. If I was doing a nine o’clock
in the morning recital, he’d go into the waiting room and
say, “My daughter’s on the radio. Wouldn’t you like come and
hear her?" So they all trooped off into the sitting room to
listen to this clarinet! [Laughing] It was very lovely, my
mother being very musical and my father very proud of me.

[The conversation then led to the BBC broadcast of April 23,
2000 in which Pamela Weston participated with Jack Brymer and
Jane Glover called ”Musical Dynasties". Weston had mailed a
cassette recording of this broadcast to me prior to this
interview.]

PW: As [Brymer] said on that broadcast, he’s certainly said
many a timesmand Thea and I feel thatm[Brymer’s] sort of, not
quite, a cross between Thurston and Reginald Kell, but
something between the two in style.

AC: How so? What characteristics did he have of both? That’s
something I would like to talk about: the different styles of
playing.

PW: You see, Kell used a lot of vibrato, a very, very
tasteful vibrato. He was a wonderful musician. And Thurston's
tone was very, very pure and clear.

Do you know the playing of Karl Leister?

AC: A little. I haven't heard his playing recently.

PW: In a sense, his embouchure and tone are very much like
Thurston. I met him at an International Congress at Denver.
He was on the faculty, and so was I. It was one afternoon

that I walked into the foyer and there he was. Nothing was
going on onstage. So he said, ”Come on Pamela. Let’s have a

153

talk." So, we sat on the stage; it was very interesting. I
started talking about Thurston. And he asked, ”Who is
Thurston?” And I asked, ”What have you been doing, Karl, all
this time?” "I’ve been practicing, Pamela!”

AC: More important things.

PW: Yes. I hope you can see him play one day. He and Guy
Deplus. When they walk onto the stage, they are absolutely
fabulous. They are both very tall and stand very straight.
They each walk on like a god and play like a god. It is
absolutely wonderful.

So where were we? Talking about my fathermare you interested
in my forbearers? My ancestors?

AC: Yes.

PW: Because on my father’s side, his mother was a Drake,
descended from the Sir Francis Drake of the Spanish Armada.
He was a buccaneer. He didn’t have any children. His brother,
Thomas, (my father is Thomas) had children. Also someone
called, Sir Richard Weston was made the first Earl of
Portland by the King, during the reign of Charles I. That’s
all gone now. No nobles in the family!

On my mother’s side, interestingly enough. She’s half Scotch
and half English. My father was half Welsh and half English.
My mother’s grandfather was an engineer of a famous canal in
Scotland at the time Queen Victoria lived. Curiously enough,
he was an amateur clarinetist. He had a little C clarinet
made of boxwood which was handed down to me during the war.
It was a time we were moving all around the country because
my father went back into the army. And it was very difficult
carrying things about, particularly the furniture. And I sold
[the clarinet]. I regret it ever since. So, that wasmhe was
the only clarinetist of the family.

AC: One thing I want to make sure of: I found this material
in a reference book about your education and degrees. What do
these abbreviations stand for?

PW: LRAM is for the ”Licenciate of the Royal Academy of
Music”. GRSM is for the “Graduate of the Royal Schools of
Music" which is a teaching diploma.

AC: That’s a special teaching diploma?

PW: It’s basically for class teaching, actually. We did
things like psychology, and so on, which is all crammed in a
two-year course. And the last one ARCM, ”Associate of the
Royal College of Music", I got two. One is for clarinet, and
the other is for piano. That’s an external exam course

154

because I was never a student there, unfortunately, as I told
you.

AC: How were you able to get those then?

PW: Oh, anybody can, they are public exams. I don’t know if
you know anything about the English grade exams system.

AC: Not very much. I would be interested in hearing.

PW: They start at grade one and go to grade eight of all the

instruments. After that, you basically go onto a diploma such
as the ARCM or the LRAM. That qualifies you to teach on your

special subject. I could not have gotten a school or college

teaching job on just that.

AC: What degree would you need to have in order to teach at a
college?

PW: I only needed one degree, either ARCM or the LRAM, but my
teacher thought it would be good to do all three. I only
needed one to set up to teach piano or clarinet whatever I
wanted. I believe it is a requisite now for entering one of
the colleges.

Then, to become a professor, I was personally invited. They
had faith in me.

AC: Did you only teach at the Guildhall?

PW

Yes, that was the only school of music.
AC: Did you teach at any other colleges, or places?

PW: I was very lucky, there again, living in Putney. There
are four further education colleges in that area and they
sent all their students to me, to my studio.

But later on, I got very interesting in teaching youngsters.
That’s why I did “Steps for the Young Clarinetist".

AC: How many students did you have at the Guildhall?

PW: At the Guildhall, I would say eight to ten. Not more,
because it was still quite a small school then. Thea’s
probably told you that it’s now moved to a different building
at the Barbican. It’s much bigger nomeho’s the professor?mIn
fact, I had a letter from Victor Slaymark who’s the professor
there. He plays for the Royal Shakespeare Company which is
based at the Barbican. Have you been there?

AC: No, I haven’t. When you started teaching at the
Guildhall, you said you started teaching young students as

155

well?

PW: No, that came later. I first thought, "I can’t be
bothered!" Things changed a lot actually, rather quickly. I
had to learn the clarinet very quickly. Thenmso, soon after
being a student and then a professor, Schott asked me if I
would start doing clarinet publications for beginning
[players], for the very early, easy ones. So, then I had to
get interested in teaching youngsters.

There was a very good church school for youngsters, kids. The
head master begged me to take some of these pupils. I had
eight in my class. They were wonderful kids; it was a very
good school. He loved music, the head master, so he made sure
they behaved. So, I started arranging things for them.

AC: I read an article, or another interview, in The Clarinet
magazine and it seems you are interesting in teaching
children of all ages and abilities, bringing music to them.
This comes across as well in your books.

PW: Yes, absolutely. And that overall spectrum started with
themsoon after I was appointed to the Guildhall, in the late
’503. I continued to be interested in anyone who played at
whatever age. I had some wonderful adult pupils too.

AC: What sort of things did you stress in your teaching? Did
you stress technical aspects?

PW: Yes, I did. Having learned that myself and not gotten
help on the techniques at all. Yes, I was very strong on
that, and I made it clear from the beginning of their first
lesson that: You’ve really got to do this, or you can’t
express yourself. You’ve got no language.

AC: It’s a good way of putting it.

PW: You couldn't do that of course with adults. I was able to
teach in my own studio; it was a quite a big one. Most of the
adults-I encouraged them to join an evening class of trios
and quartets, so they could enjoy and get to know literature.
AC: And play with other people too.

PW: Absolutely. I think one of the most wonderful things of
all music is the wind orchestra. Have you done much playing
in one?

AC: Yes. Not recently. Recently, I’ve been in a symphony
orchestra.

PW: Yes. That reminds me. I’ve had, of course, a lot of
students coming to me from countries abroad. There’s an

156

Australian called Ian Cooke; he’s now in his forties. He’s
gone on now to conducting, having done very well on the
clarinet. He’s professionally conducting wind orchestras in
place of any of string orchestras for opera performances in
Sydney, Newcastle, all over the place.

AC: How interesting.

PW: Much less expensive than carrying all that equipment and

people! And so, that’s his wind orchestra, and he’s made all
the arrangements.

AC: It’s interesting how he can break traditions.

PW: Yes. Have you heard the Finnish Clarinet Choir?

AC: No.

PW: They are becoming very well-known. I’ve got a CD of
theirs, and they’re absolutely marvelous. Of course,
particularly with Crusell. You said that you played one of
his quartets?

AC: Yes. I enjoyed playing it. It was partly fun because
oftenmI play a lot of avant garde or twentieth century music,
so it was nice to return to nice '—

PW: And you’ve had the advantage of learning from Elsa.

AC: Oh, yes.

PW: Contemporary music is marvelous.

AC: Yes, that’s one of my interests, and I certainly enjoy
playing contemporary things. But, with this Crusell, it was
so pleasant!

PW: A relaxing effect!

AC: Lighthearted.

PW: Thea loves Crusell, doesn’t she? Have you heard her
recordings?

AC: Yes.

PW: The concertos. And, it was Victor Slaymark whom I
mentioned just now, with the Royal Shakespeare —-he quite
often plays the song "Ganges" [by Crusell]. Do you know that?
AC: No.

PW: No? It’s a wonderful song for soprano, clarinet, and

157

piano published by Emerson. It is ”From Ganges, Beauteous
Strands". It is one that I edited for a company called
Emerson. Do you know that name at all?

AC: I’ve heard of it.

PW: June Emerson, she founded it herself — a specialist in
wind music. And I’ve edited on occasion for her. These songs
are on par with the Mozart "Part0, Part0". Have you played
that?

AC: I haven’t. A colleague of mine did recently.

PW: Do you have a basset clarinet?

AC: No, I don’t.

PW: Do you want to have one?

AC: Sometime I would. I just don’t have the money for it now.

PW: I don't know if you know, but I’ve done a basset clarinet
version of the Mozart Concerto for the Universal Edition.
And, the Quintet for basset clarinet has only just come out
last year for Fentone. Fentone, more sensibly, had just
published the basset clarinet part alone so that you don’t
have to buy another set of string parts.

I’m trying to encourage people —-I do hope it will come to
this -say like me, you had a rotten pair of clarinets to
begin with and had to buy another one anyway. Buy a basset
clarinet rather than another clarinet. That will encourage
composers to write more for it. Then it’s not quite an
expensive thing to perform the Mozart pieces!

AC: What sort of sound quality does it have? How is it
different?

PW: As you know, there are commercial instruments, and they
are getting better all the time. The first efforts were
terribly good. Is that what you think?

AC: I haven't heard very much, to be honest, since few people
have them. I’ve heard people play them, but not for a few
years.

PW: It’s so wonderful to have those low notes. There’s so
much in the concerto. Have you seen [my edition]?

AC: Yes, I have.

PW: Have you read the foreword?

158

AC: Yes.

PW: And about this man Schwencke who did the version for
piano and string quartet of the concerto, which is so
revealingmabsolutely amazing.

Mozarthrymer’s ”God" of course. He shares the same birthday
[as Mozart]. He’s so special on that [piece]; most of us
think that way.

I’ve come across a number of top ranking players who have
refused to play the concerto until they were a certain age
because they felt they couldn’t do it justice. It should be
played a very mature player.

One was [Vladimir] Gensler who was in the Leningrad Symphony
Orchestra. He didn’t play the concerto until he was forty-
three although he was appointed to the orchestra, I think,
when he was twenty-four or twenty-five.

And, I always felt that, with regard to Mozart. There were a
lot of very clever musicologists, some of them American,
who’d done research in certain aspects of Mozart. It was
marvelous. When I was writing my books about the players, I
thought I’d better get on with it because I know so much more
than they do. Now I’ve gotten to the stage where I’ve been
lucky. I had a copy of the Schwencke version of the Concerto.
And with the help of people like Pamela Poulin. Do you know
of her?

AC: No.

PW: She’s done the most marvelous researches into Stadler’s
concertos, that sort of thing. She really has. So, now we’re
getting to the bottom of Mozart. Let’s hope one day that we
find the manuscript. I can’t help feeling that it can’t have
been destroyed.

The six Weber works which I edited for Fentone. It’s quite a
story there. Schott were to do a version of that because I
found there had been many rotten editions of the weber works.
Have you got any of Carl Baermann's versions?

AC: I think I do.

PW: You probably have; most people have. You know he was the
son of the clarinet player Heinrich Baermann who Weber wrote
five of the six [clarinet] works. In the 18803, well after
Heinrich Baermann had died, Carl Baermann did editions of the
Weber works which were so shoddy. All sorts of things were
put in with the dubious reason that they were performance
practice handed down from his father.

159

So, I got a hold of photocopies of all the manuscripts that
Carl wrote and then suggested to Schott that we should
publish them with two clarinet lines in the score, one
exactly as Weber wrote it on the manuscript, unedited. And we
got it started with one of the concertos, “Number Two" [Op.
74] actually.

I’d actually corrected the first piece, and [Schott] changed
the editing. There was a man called Mr. Caesar who came up to
see me at my home. He said, ”We can’t do it like that Ms.
Weston. We’ve just got to have the one clarinet line in the
score. So, I got on to the manager and said, “I’m sorry. I
won’t do it this way; it’s not worth doing. Could you please
release me from my contract?" He was so sympathetic; he could
quite understand. He said, “I’m very sorry.”

So, then I offered them to Fentone, and they’re quite a small
firm. Larry Fentone is the managing director. He’s done
extremely well with it, with the manuscript version and the
edited version in the same score.

Fentone, again, they're wonderful publishers. And so [Larry
Fentone] had done this Mozart Quintet because, unfortunately,
Universal Edition in Vienna, who are a very old firm, decided
about a year and a half ago to stop doing any more wind
publications. I had offered [Universal] the Quintet since I
had done the [Mozart] Concerto for them. So again, I offered
them to Larry Fentone. He jumped at it!

I'm very sorry about that because Universal Vienna — Vienna
is where it ought to be done.

AC: I was wondering if you held any positions in orchestras?

PW: I never had a fulltime position. And the small amount
that I did were with chamber orchestras. Quite a bit of
broadcasts. They were all where you were engaged for just one
time. There were no fulltime personal. On the wholemI don’t
know if it's stayed the samemThea [King] did a lot of that
kind of work. very often I was playing second to her.
Sometimes it was Gervase de Peyer. Sometimes I was engaged as
first; sometimes he was. It was a sort of friendly rivalry!

AC: What were some of those orchestras?

PW: I can't remember. I think there were quite a fewmit was
just after the war. Things were starting again. It was a
quite a vogue for small chamber orchestras. The Alexandra
Orchestra was one, conducted by Denys Darlow. And I deputized
a bit —

End of Tape One, Side One

160

Tape One, Side Two

PW: What other orchestras did I play in? I sometimes
deputized at Sadler’s Wells.

AC: Was that only an opera orchestra?

PW: Yes, it wasmI can't remember; I really didn’t want to do
the [orchestra] jobs the because I was doing solo work. So,
you could call it ”freelance" orchestra playing.

AC: Did you play in any chamber groups?

PW: Yes, I did. That has been very important. A singer at the
Guildhall, who was quite mature, asked me if I’d like to form
a trio with her and a pianist called the Klarion Trio. That,
in fact, is why I started doing research: to find more music
for that combination. We had quite a few things written for
us. Have you played with a soprano much?

AC: I’ve done a few things including the Massenet aria.
TK: Have you done the Arnold Cooke songs?
AC: No, but I’d like to do them.

TK: They were written for us. They’re lovely. It’s the A
clarinet. We did the first public performance of that, the
first broadcast of that in Manchester.

As I say, I was trying to find fresh music that I got into
research. I am sure you read Geoffrey Rendall’s book [The
Clarinet]. He was still alive then, and he was the keeper of
music at the British Museum. I got a ticket to the library,
and he very kindly asked me to come to his study. we talked
about a list of things.

That’s how I got startedmgetting to the museum, and reading:
”the playing of Henry Lazarus at Queens Hall", or whatever it
was. It made me say, ”Who was he, what was he like?"

AC: That’s interesting.

PW: I used to have one of Henry Lazarus’ clarinets, but I
sold it to Nicholas Shackelton. He wrote the article about
the clarinet in [New Groves Dictionary of.MUsic and
.MUsicians].

There is a new [New Groves edition] coming out which I wrote

articles for. And I had to fight for it, but I got an article
in on the Ludewig [Verdehr] Trio. You know, I did thirty-two

articles for the previous edition in 1980, and I had to fight
to get Benny Goodman in!

161

AC: Really? You would think that one of the best known people
would be ok.

PW: I couldn’t believe it! Incredible, considering all his
classical works he had commissioned. That was very funny
because it was a lady editor of the twentieth century
section, and she told me that at a committee meeting of the
Groves, she gave Stanley Sadie, who’s the editor in chief, a
list of all the people that I thought should be included. It
came to Benny Goodman's name, and he said, “Oh we can’t have
that chap! He plays like he's got a hot potato in his mouth!"
He got shot down. And the rest of the committee said, ”we
must have him."

But, quite frankly, we had an American jazz writer [Richard
Wang] to do that article.

Did you ever have a chance of hearing him?
AC: No. I’ve heard recordings though.

PW Do you play jazz?

AC: No.

PW: If I again had my professorship, I would insist that
everybody had the experience of jazz.

Are you a member of the International Clarinet Association?
AC: Yes.
PW: I don’t know if you read my rather fictitious article in

the December issue [of The Clarinet]: ”Hilarity, Calamity,
and Other To-dos.” Did you read that one?

AC: Yes.

PW: And the story about Benny Goodman coming over to perform
the Malcom Arnold’s Second COncerto. He was really nervous
playing classical pieces. There again, he’s done so much.

Have you had a chance to play a concerto with your university
orchestra?

AC: No, unfortunately not.

PW: I was lucky because Edric Cundell had me doing that kind
of thing. I didn’t do it very well. I was terribly nervous! I
remember I was so nervous that during one of the tuttis —-I

was right beside the conductor. He said, ”Pamela, you’ve got
to enjoy yourself." It was a rather funny because I was very

162

nervous and very skinny as a child. Therefore, to stand and
play a 3010 was murder to me. And that’s how it turned out;
gradually, I gained confidence. I think I gained confidence
in performing, in having opportunities to talk about the
works. I was able to communicate with the audience.

AC: Have you performed with orchestras fairly often? And what
pieces?

PW: No. The few occasions that I did, it was always the
Mozart Concerto.

I've done no contemporary music at all. It’s fascinating, the
way things are going. Actually, I think that real
contemporary music, that written in the last ten years, gives
me much more pleasure than the sort of things that were
written in the '603 and ’703. It was so unpleasant. Do you
think 30?

AC: I can see that in some sense. The composers were trying
to destroy a lot of things.

PW: Yes. I think in a lot of ways, it was a reaction to the
war. Because England had a very, very tough time.

I forget, did Theamwas she living in Bedford? She must have
been.

AC: Yes.

PW: So, she was lucky, wasn’t she? To find Thurston on her
doorstep.

AC: She had said that they did some concerts for the schools,
and that’s where she first heard, I believe she said, the
Brahms Quintet, played by Thurston.

PW: We ended up, when I had that part-time teaching at the
[Bedford] high school, going to all the available concerts.
On one occasion, I remember Thurston playing the Schubert
Octetmwhat was the name of that bassoon player? Anyway, I had
a lesson the next day. I said, “Why didn’t Mr. So-and-so [the
bassoonist] smile when he came out to take a bow? He said,
"Pamela, he got some new false teeth! And they were hurting
him, so he flung them out in the artists' room!" Archie
Camden was his name.

AC: Did you play in any other chamber groups besides this
trio?

PW: I had a lot opportunities to play in quintets, the Mozart

and Brahms particularly. I think I did the Reger, with
various quartets.

163

Actually, that reminds me'— it's lovely talking to somebody
like you; it makes me think back! The broadcasts started
through that. I'd never had to go and have an audition, you
see, for solo work. A lot happened for us. I think I had just
left as a student, and there was a very famous quartet called
the New London Quintet which was formerly the Blech Quartet.
The leader was Harry Blech who got, later on, arthritis in
his hand. He later had to give up violin playing and took to
conducting, very successful. He had just had to give up
leading the string quartet, and Erich Gruenberg, who led the
Guildhall School orchestra, whom I knew well -we were
students together — had been invited to take his place. So, I
got the opportunity to play the Mozart Quintet and to play
the Brahms. And I didn’t know about this, but the BBC heard
us and actually wrote about us and said they liked the
performance.

That was a particular concert that I remember loving. It was
a wonderful Brahms. There are certain concerts that just
"lift up". You never forget. You get well "into” playing.

It’s a terribly, terrible hard life, especially if you are

traveling around as a soloist. Because, nowadays it must be
much, much worse than what I was doing with the traveling.

And then the conditions of the hallm

AC: Not knowing quite what you’ll find. Did you perform
recitals regularly?

PW: Oh yes.

AC: What music did you play on them?
PW: None of the contemporary stuff!
AC: Did you have a favorite composer?

PW: I would say Brahms and Stanford. Unfortunately, I never
had the chance to play the [Stanford] Concerto. I remember
playing that at Bedford for a lesson with Thurston. And he
had one of the BBC accompanists called Earnest Lush with him
at that particular time. So, he said, “Earnest, would you
play this Stanford for Pamela?” He hadn’t played it before.

I later on did quite a lot of broadcasts with Earnest who was
getting on about fifty years. In the very, very old days,
when he started playing with the BBC, if a program finished
early — they didn’t time anything like they do these days —
if it finished early, the staff accompanist who was on duty
had to fill in with bits of music. One time the announcer, at
the end of his little bit, he said, ”You’ve just been
listening to an "Earnestlude”.

164

mBut, yes the Stanford. Do you know the Concerto?
AC: No, I haven't played it.

PW: That is absolutely wonderful; it uses both clarinets.
It’s very Romantic. That’s something that I’ll show you, but
I’ll have to find it.

Do you remember any sonatas dedicated to Charles Draper and
Oscar Street? Oscar Street was a very talented amateur
clarinetist. He subsidized both Thurston and Draper and also
had a lot to do with getting the Stanford Concerto performed.
But it was not published until I got a hold of it after the
fifty years after Stanford’s death when it could be
published. I got a hold of it from Oscar Street’s daughter.
She gave me the original piano version. I think that Thea
[King] was probably the first person in this country to play
it. You must get that.

AC: Yes. That’s an interesting story behind the publishing.

PW: Yes. I've had so many interesting things happen. I mean
with the Mfihlfeld, Brahms’ clarinetist. I had written to
Mieningen, the court where Mfihlfeld was employed, for various
things like pictures and so on. And the nice lady of the
office at the time wrote back — she had given me the
information. She said, ”By the way, there was a Mfihlfeld here
a short while ago; she had signed the visitor’s book. You
might like her address.” So, I wrote to this lady in Hamburg.
She was, I think, in her eighties. Eventually, I got a letter
from her nephew Richard Mfihlfeld, who wrote: "This is
wonderful. We’d love you to come and see us." And eventually
we became great friends. And he gave me the teaspoon that
belonged to [Richard] Mfihlfeld. I went over there and stayed
with them and played from the manuscripts which you may know
had not been sold. Anyway, when I went there, Richard
said,”It's such a shame. No German has ever approached us
about my grandfather." And he took me to have a meal at the
home of his aunt. I’ve got a whole notebook full of all the
stories that she told me. She had to speak, actually, through
Richard who translated because she couldn’t speak English.
So, I had plenty of time to write it all down!

AC: How convenient.

PW: Richard had brought his wife and daughter; they’ve also
got two sons who didn’t come. They stayed with me in Putney.
One day we were sitting out in the garden having lunch. He
said, ”Pamela, we’ve got something for you in the caravan."
There was a while drawer of these lovely silver teaspoons. He
gave me one. I thought: ”Can I say, ’Give me the whole dozen
because they shouldn’t be scratching about in this

165

cupboard.’" I didn't, but I got one!
AC: You are so lucky to have it.

PW: I was glad to have it. We became great friends. We’ve
corresponded a lot; I’ve got all his letters. He came to the
1984 International Congress that was held in London, the only
International Congress held here. I directed it and got him
to give a lecture about his grandfather which was
fascinating.

Theano you remember the stories in the Clarinet Virtuosi of
the Past about the two Spanish brothers?

AC: No, I don’t.

PW: There again, it’s rather fascinating. They trained at the
Paris Conservatory and then came over to England. They were
very good indeed.

It was through an employee of the Boosey and Hawkes factory —
you know of those instruments?

AC: Yes.

PW: They used to make lovely clarinets. Through an employee
there, I was put in touch with a daughter of each of the
Gomez brothers [Francisco and Manuel], and that was actually
marvelous. But, I had to use my own judgment as to who was
saying the truth. And then I lived in Oxford and Romaria
lived in a suburb of London, and I used to go see them both.
And Romaria said, “So, what has Elena said about my
father?mIt wasn't my father. It was hers." It was so funny!

And the one who lived in LondonmI brought along once my
mother (my father had died). And I thought she would enjoy
talking with Romaria because my mother spoke Spanish.

It's awfully difficult to trace descendants. I know in
America toombecause I have a lot of American friends, and
when they’ve tried to find descendants of great American
players who mostly — let’s face it'— come from France or
Germany. To find out descendants, you can tell them about the
ancestors.

For instance, there’s a man who immigrated from Germany to
play in the Boston Symphony Orchestra. His name escapes me.
But, he is said to have to have a copy of the manuscript of
Mozart’s Concerto. I've tried to get several people in the
past in America to do something about it. So far nobody has
it. Even a copy of the manuscript would be wonderful.

AC: I was wondering if you have commissioned any works? Were

166

the ones written for your trio commissioned?

PW: No, they were not commissions. They were just written for
us. It was a fairly unusual combination, actually, at that
time. In fact, I don’t know if there’s ever been another trio
which sort of had a name and stuck together for any length of
time.

AC: I don’t know of one. That’s something that Dr. Verdehr
has mentioned: that there’s never been one.

PW: I don’t think 30. Although, there were plenty of people
who do concerts for this ensemble, and they have to rack
their brains to think what to [perform].

AC: Are there any other works that were written for you?

PW: Yes. Some small pieces for clarinet and piano. That was
the only one, the Arnold Cooke songs, for our trio. It’s
marvelous playing with a soprano.

Yes, this man GenslermI think it was the Moscow Symphony he
played in -I must check that -whom I mentioned earlier who
didn’t play the Mozart [Concerto] until he was forty-three
years old. He was fairly new to this. He was using circular
breathing, and that was a long time ago. Do you know the
singer Marian Anderson? The American singer was doing Delilah
and this man, Gensler, was able to just go on and on. He
astounded everybody; they didn't really know about it. Do you
use it?

AC: No. It's something that I should learn the technique.

PW: Have you ever thought about going to Suzanne Stephens,
Stockhausen’s clarinetist?

AC: It’s crossed my mind. One of Dr. Verdehr’s old students
came back to MSU and gave a master class on Stockhausen’s
music since he went to the festival there. He really enjoyed
it.

PW: Yes. I bet he did. In one of the early Congresses in
Denver, Stockhausen and Suzanne were there. She did Harlequin
which was new in those days. He set up the auditorium with
lights shining on her. She looked absolutely wonderful. For
most of us, it was our first experience of circular
breathing. She would kneel down in front of a very large
stage. Kneel down, still playing, keep the tone going and get
up again without breaking. It’s incredible.

AC: Quite acrobatic.

PW: But, some people say that [circular breathing] is not

167

very good for your health. Have you heard that?

AC: I’ve heardmthat storing the excess air - or the air that
you never fully let out — I’m not sure how much of a concern
it is.

PW: Presumably, you never use it all the timemjust for
specific parts.

AC: Right. Have you played the basset clarinet?
PW: No, never. But I have played the bass clarinet once.

AC: Judging from our earlier conversation, you believe that
it is important that pieces like the Mozart that were written
for instruments other than the Bb or A clarinet to be played
on the “real" instrument?

PW: Yes. I do very much. I feel very strongly about that. But
at the moment, it is not financially possible for everyone.
It certainly must not stop people from learning the music. I
think [the Mozart Concerto] is ranked as the seventh most
popular piece of music in the world.

AC: I am not surprised. I heard it in the airport the other
day. When you started your career as a musician, you had no
intention of becoming a historian?

PW: No, absolutely not.
AC: Did you always have an interest in music history?
PW: No.

AC: So, it began with your trio that you became interested in
research?

PW: Not necessarily then. I mean, I was researching, with the
help of Geoffrey Rendall, looking music for that specific
combination. Really, I suppose, it was after I left the
Guildhall in 1969. Did you look up the dates that I was a
professor there?

AC: It says here [in the Fentone biography] that you resigned
in 1969.

PW: No, that can’t be right because I didn’t start any
serious research until I left my professorship. Let me look
up those dates. [looking at her curriculum vitae] It says
here 1951-1969.

1969 was the year that my father died. There again, I’m
wrong. Because when my father was still alive, I was doing

168

the research. My parents lived in a village in Kent; I was
living in London and was very, very busy teaching all day,
five days a week. And, rather like now, I had a rule, an
absolute rule. I would turn my Saturdays over to the British
Museum, doing research. Sunday, the day after, I would write
up all my notes. Then, the following weekend because my
parents were very old, I used to go down to be with them in
Kent. When I would finish a chapter, my father, who was very
interested in historymwe used to sit down by the fire, and I
would read a chapter to him which my father loved.

So, yes, it must have been about 1969, or something like
that.

AC: What were some of the topics or areas that you were
originally interested in when you began researching?

PW: My real interest is in people. It wouldn’t have mattered
if I’d played another instrument. In fact, after I published
the first book, people used to say to me —-in fact, I was
offered a contract to do other wind instruments because they
have no writer. Only the flute people do. Oboe and bassoon,
they wanted similar things. I’d rather stick to clarinetists.
But, it is the performers and their characters.

AC: Have you ever written on any topics not related to the
clarinet?

PW: I’ve written a novel!
AC: Really!

PW: Yes, but I couldn’t get it published. It is actually
based on various musical things and the clarinetist Mr.
Charles - Charles the first virtuoso player. It goes to
Dublin; it goes to Naples because of the connection with the
Hamiltons. Then to Brusselsmkings and queens and singers. I
might try again.

AC: When did you write that?

PW: I wrote it over a very long period of time. I can’t
remember, but I might have started it before I started the
serious research. Mr. Charles fascinated me.

People don’t seem to be researching him at all. He was
playing in Handel’s day. He also played the horn. Basically,
he was one of the first clarinet players to play here, in
England. Also, [he played] the chalumeau as they called them
in those days. They used to spell it: ”shalamo". And he did
play the horn underhand in Dublin.

AC: Besides the performers, did you focus your attention on

169

English music at all, or certain time periods?
PW: NO.

AC: Just judging from music you’ve edited, it doesn’t seem
like you have.

PW: Yes. It’s very general.
AC: How do you structure your writing?

PW: I have a very definite plan. I was encouraged by a very
good friend, Walter Bergman, who was very famous in the
recorder field, harpsichord and so on. He became managing
director of Schott and helped me particularly about the
editing. When I began to write he said, ”Now Pamela, it’s a
great thing to have lots and lots of draft paper. Just keep
writing things down as they come to you." Which I do, and
then I itemize them in order of importance. So I get an
order. I never get stop writing until I know the overall
plan.

Before I start writing at all, I always have a title. Because
a lot of people don’t. I don’t think that ever works.

AC: I suppose it helps focus your attention more, so that you
don’t get away from the topic.

PW: That’s right. The title is, of course, short. Sometimes
they get too long. The title gets the imagination going, not
just the author’s, but the reader’s. If you haven’t got that
to begin with, you just stray along.

Walter also encouraged me to not write very long paragraphs
because the mind boggles as you are reading. You must think
about your readers. It is not just you; it’s who you are
going to show them to.

AC: You don’t want a frustrated reader.

PW: That’s right. Each paragraph, if possible, should follow
on the previous one, not start something entirely new.

AC: This is great. I’m getting writing tips from you!

PW: Famous last words! But don’t get too fussy about the
first book. Everybody says that. Composers, particularly,
wish they never did it! You learn so much all the time. I
learned so much from my first book which I’m quite
embarrassed to read.

And my problem was — I think it’s important for you to
understand —-is that I had no university training, only

170

musical. I did not learn how to start research. I never had
any of that. It was all learning by experience. And so for
instance, there are a lot of the references that I would like
to have given new in the other books.

My second book, MOre Clarinet Virtuosi, I think has been much
more help to people because in the back it has a list of
compositions and locations and courts, and a very extensive
index. That’s very important, should you ever think of
writing a book. There are professional index writersmI bought
quite a few books and nine out of ten have not useful indexes
and quite clearly have not been done by the author. It’s so
much better for the author to do their own index.

Anything like thatmin a lot of books, certainly in articles,
I’ve always given references. But you can’t really do that to
a great extent. It would make the book twice the size.

AC: Did you have a mentor to help read your books as you
began to write?

PW: No, I didn’t, but I should have. In a way, my parents
were my mentors. As I told you, we would sit by the fire, and
I would read the new chapter to them. And ifmmy father might
have pointed out an error on a historical fact, but
otherwise, no. I have never asked someone to read something
before I edited it. I should have done that at the beginning,
but you learn so much as you write, and I don’t think it’s
necessary. The trouble is, with the sort of things I’m
writing now, for instance, literally nobody else has the same
certain knowledge. The information is stacked ”upstairs”.

As far as the actual art of writing is concerned, I think I
was taught very well in school. I don’t remember much about
it. But, I rewrite very, very much. It’s perfectly ghastly. I
keep waking up in the morning. “Pamela, get up and finish it.
But, only by doing that can you make sure that it runs, reads
easily.

AC: Have you noticed any glaring omissions in what has been
written about the history of the instrument? Things we don’t
know about yet.

Pw: Oh, yes. I’ve got about six that I would like to write
about. I’ve got to finish the book first. I’ll give you a
list tomorrow! There certainly are there are such a lot of
intriguing mysteries.

AC: What is the book that you are writing now?
PW: It’s called Yesterday’s Clarinetists, a Sequel. It’s

surprisingmsince I moved away from London and can no longer
do research in the British Library it all has to be done by

171

post. So much more material turned up since I wrote Mere
Clarinet Virtuosi. It may surprise you that there are six
hundred new ones going into the new book as well as a lot of
extra information of the very great and some others from
Virtuosi from the Past, six hundred of those. There’s about
twelve hundred in the book.

AC: So, it will be similar to the other Virtuosi books, as
far as structure of it?

PW: Yes. There’s practically no duplication. What I’ve done
is to refer to the other volumes.

So it’s all falling into place. I must say that I love
getting pictures. I’ve got some very old pictures. Six came
from the Deutsche Staatsbibliothek. Once you’ve got a
picture, you can understand them better.

Oh yes! It’s really funny. When I was writing the first book
and it was nearing publication, I put all the pictures I

got — they didn’t all get into the book actually; there were
a lot of minor players — I hung them up on my studio walls.
One day, when I was in bed that night, I had a sort of
picture of them all jumping out of their frames and
chattering in the room below: She thinks she can write about
us!

AC: Was that frightening?

PW: But, one can’t help feelingmit’s quite possible that
there are some very fine players and are not even heard of,
who are just a name.

AC: That’s true. When is your new book to be published?

PW: Well, I am about a quarter of the way through. I’ve only
seriously been writing for about a year. Of course, it takes
an awfully long time to move into a new house. This is a
brand new house, and I am the first owner. And you couldn't
believe how many things have gone wrong with the plumbing and
electrical works. So, it will be two or three years before I
finish writing. And to actually see a book through
publication, is a lengthy process. Publishers take a long
time. You’ve got to read through so many second and third
proofs. Only when the last proof is satisfactorily done, can
you get down to the index. So maybe four or five years.
[Weston has since noted that it will likely be published in
2002]

AC: When did you start?

PW: Well, I got all the material, and I knew I wanted to do
it. So I’ve only started about a year ago, if that. But the

172

actual writing of the other booksmfor the first one, I took
ten years. The second took seven years. And Clarinet Virtuosi
of TOday, I took four or five. That was much easier.

AC: I think that one is interesting to me because of the
excerpts of the conversations you had with the players. You
get an idea of their personality.

PW: You do! You get the personal touch! Lovely photographs,
aren’t they?

AC: Yes. Those add a lot to it.

PW: It’s a lovely one of Suzanne Stephens. Her hands are
beautiful. I think she may be double-jointed, you know.
Because her hands are sort of like that in front of her face.
[demonstrating] We took that one at the Festival Hall. Have
you been to the Festival Hall?

AC: No.
PW: No? You’ve got to come back, Andrea!
AC: I do, don’t I?

You’ve mentioned going to libraries. How else did you collect
your information?

Pw: Basically, all at the British Library. Yes. And then
contacting foreign libraries. In a sense, I suppose I was
very, very lucky doing it when I did, early on in the ’603,
because libraries didn't have the same demands on their time.
They were very willing to answer your letters, and they
answered them quickly. Nowadays, it's absolutely awful to get
replies because they get so many requests. I’m afraid to say
it, but it’s mostly from university students - and students
have to do it. But you see, it takes the archivists’ time. In
some cases, they’re definitely very aloof to giving you
information. Whereas, in my day, they were so generous.

So, the only way that I would recommend ifmsay you were
researching the sort of thing I dom[the only way] is to just
come and spend months in Europe and going around to the
places. It’s the only way nowadays. I doubt whether you could
get the same service that you wanted.

End of Tape One

173

Tape TWO, Side TWO
[Speaking about collecting materials for the books.]

PW: It didn’t cost me a lot of money, but of course you have
to do it properly; you’ve got to do it professionally. I am
sorry to say that many, many people simply had photocopies
done of the pictures that I found and used them williy-nilly
without any regard of copyright or anything else.

AC: When you spend the time and money to get them -

PW: That’s right. There’s no comeback for that. For instance,
one of the universities or schools of music had come back to
me and asked "Look, why did you let that picture be copied?"
I don’t know often. I may look in the copy of the CASS [the
Clarinet and Saxophone Society of Great Britain]
magazinemI’ve seen pictures that had been lifted from my
books. Do you belong to CASS?

AC: No, I don’t. Is there is a large difference between two
organizations [CASS and ICA (International Clarinet
Association)] other than the inclusion of saxophones in CASS?

PW: No, not really. [CASS] is not international; it’s the
clarinet and sax0phone society where the other is the
clarinet international organization. They are very active,
but they’re much more geared towards amateur players. The
American [ICA] one is highly professional. [CASS’s] magazine
is very well put to use. The actual production of it is just
as good as the American one, but the material is not as good.

AC: How active are you in both societies?

PW: I am an honorary member [of CASS] as I am in the
International Association. When I lived in Putney, a long
time ago, I was on the committee and used to have the [CASS]
meetings at my house. I did write quite a bit for them at one
time until I became much more involved in the international
scene. I don’t really write —-on occasion, they might ask me
to write a special feature or something like that.

AC: Have you spoken at many of their conferences as well as
at the International?

PW: Yes, I have. The first time I wentmI’ve often laughed
with John Denman about that. Do you know John?

AC: I know of him.
PW: He’s actually English, but he went to America about

thirty years ago, I think, to play golf. On the plane [to
America], he got a thrombosis and was hospitalized. The nurse

174

who looked after him was a voluntary part-time nurse and a
brilliant pianist. They married. So, he stayed there and
lived in ArizonamTucson, for a long time.

John was already there when I came to my first congress in
Denver. I had come to America with an Australian and met up
with another American, and we went to our first congress
together.

Before we went to Denver, we visited the Druckers, Stanley
and Naomi. They’re nice people. Somebody was taking
photographs, and there was very uneven pavement outside their
house. I tripped and fell and damaged my ankle. So, Bill, my
American friend, lent me his gold-topped cane. I was
dreadfully nervous because I was asked to do lecture on old
78 recordings. I didn’t think I could go on stage. I was
terribly nervous, especially because I was limping on this
stick. John [Denman] introduced me because he knew me. He
said, "Pamela Weston’s come to give this lecture. She
apologizes for the stick, but she fell for Stanley Drucker!"
There was warm laughter. Ah, it was absolutely wonderful.
They were all my friends.

AC: He broke the ice.

PW: He did in the most marvelous way. He’s a person who’s
made a great success of playing jazz and classical music.
He’s equally good on both. I see many people trying to do
that these days, but I haven’t known anyone else who’s
actually made it equal success. We were talking about Benny
Goodman. He was such a success in jazz, but not really in
classical. And there have been others like that.

AC: Richard Stoltzman is one who has done some of both.

PW: Is he doing a lot of jazz?

AC: I am not sure how much.

PW: Stanley Drucker’s son has gone into the pop world.

AC: Oh, really?

PW: Yes. The second time I went to his home. They’ve a large
double garage. He said, ”I’ve had to take my cars out and
give into my son because he’s banging in the garage all the
time!" But, he’s done well in the pop world.

Dick Stoltzman is a very unusual person and all credit to
him. He’s never had an orchestral job which is quite

something. He’s done so well as a soloist. Very unusual type
of clarinet playing.

175

AC: Unique style and “presentation".

PW: Yes. I think that’s good. Even if you don’t particularly
like the person’s presentation, he’s giving an interpretation
which of course he’s entitled to do.

AC: Certainly.
PW: That’s better than someone who is just a bore on stage.

AC: Someone who is just machine—like in reproducing someone
else’s interpretations.

PW: Yes. Thea has judged at a lot of competitions. I’ve done
a few, but nothing like she’s done. Always her complaint is,
quite justified, that too much emphasis is given on
technique. They don’t seem to be able to put any kind of
meaning into it.

AC: She did mention that.

PW: Did she? I know she feels very strongly about that. I
should think that she’s very good on judging.

AC: Yes, it sounds like she would be fair and open to other
people’s playing styles.

PW: Yes. She’s very down to earth. She’s also, of course,
very sympathetic to performers.

Of course, on most international juries (this applies to the
English one — the BBC one), there’s bound to be a prejudice
for different nationalities. How can you avoid it?

AC: That's true.

PW: I think it was at that first congress, which we did in
1979 in Denver, that I met Elsa [Ludewig-verdehr] for the
first time. Elsa and I were on the jury at that congress. I
was terribly thrilled to hear so many American players. Their
playing, I considered — particularly their tone quality-— to
be so much better than anything we had in England. It was a
real thrill.

AC: In what ways ways it better?

PW: Well, I think basically it was that [Americans], at that
time certainlymserious players would never dream of playing
the saxophone. They didn’t like it. They didn’t like vibrato
in clarinet playing and that undoubtedly is why Reginald Kell
didn’t make a success in America. In England, because of the
Kell influence before he went to America, a lot of young
students, Gervase [de Peyer] as well, started doing a vibrato

176

and didn’t do it well. They didn't have the artistry as Kell.
I'm not saying that Gervase isn’t an artist; he was, but the
others weren’t. And so, we were getting a whole lot of
horrible vibrato that we didn’t wish to hear at all. So, to
hear the lovely clear tone again. It was wonderful.

AC: How do you fund all of your projects, the editing and
writing?

PW: I’ve earned it in non-writing projects basically. I’ve
had an advance on my Chinese translation [of Clarinet
Virtuosi of the Past], but no advances on the other books.
So, I’ve done it the hard way. I’m not well-off. I spend all
my money on the clarinet virtually.

And, I was sent by a clarinetist whom I met in Russia, doing
the last book Clarinet Virtuosi of TOday, two books on
Russian Clarinetistry. I’ve written an article about Russian
Clarinetistry for Jim Gillespie [editor of The Clarinet]
which will come out either in September or December. I had to
have thesemI needed to have these books translated which cost
me £900. All of that I’m giving to the clarinet. Of course I
don’t get paid for articles in The Clarinet.

I do it for the love of the clarinet! Or the players! No,
both! I love the instrument.

AC: Well, you have certainly given a lot to it!
PW: Well, it’s my privilege. And I wouldn’t stint anything.
AC: Have you ever received any grants or fellowships?

PW: No, we don’t get that sort of thing in this country,
anything like you do in America. You are very, very lucky.
And I was amazed at that first Denver congress when I went to
hear the professors. The perks that they have and the pay
they havemwe don’t have anything like that in this country.

I’ve been terribly lucky as I’ve said already with my
publishers. I’ve shown you the lists of my three basic ones
and you'll see from the complete list the others. I’ve always
had, and still get, good royalties from.my music editions.
That’s all been put back into the clarinet.

I have no family, you see. So, it’s all mine to give out!
AC: When did you begin editing pieces?

PW: It was for the very early elementary music publications
for Schott [& Co.], the First Clarinet Album, [followed by

the] Second, Third, FOurth. And then four albums of duets.
and that music is taken from all sorts of things, not just

177

clarinet music. Maybe piano music, violin music. Anything I
thought that had nice tunes.

AC: These are for younger players?
PW: Yes, this is what Schott asked me to do.

AC: Did you feel there was a lack of good music for younger
players?

PW: Yes, there was a lack anyway. Also, when I was asked to
do the syllabus for the grade exams for the Guildhall, it was
extremely difficult to find enough early, good music to put
in the easy grades.

AC: What about the music you began editing of the
”standards". Did you feel there were things missing from
other editions? That they were incorrect somewhat?

PW: You mean why I did the Crusell concertos, for instance?
AC: Yes.

PW: No, the only time that applied was over the Weber works
because they had been battered up a long time. With the
Crusells, by the time I did the Op. 1 and Op. 11, only Op. 5,
the middle one, had been printed —-I think ever in modern
times. So, first of all, Universal asked me to do the other
two. More or less at the same time, somebody else did Op. 11,
and someone else did Op. 1 so there’s more than one edition
of those. But, because Universal got Op. 1 and 11 from me, I
said that I would also do Op. 5 so that they have all three.

It wasn’t a question of correcting. It was simply because I
felt that Op. 5 is so lovely, why don’t they have the others?
And, they were very keen.

AC: How about the Mozart?

PW: Well, I already told you. It was because I was lucky
enough to buy this copy of the Schwencke arrangement for
piano and string quartet.

AC: Oh, yes. Of course.

PW: I did not explain this, I'm sorry. Schwencke is known to
have had a copy of the manuscript of the concerto and that’s
how he did his arrangement with all the ornamentations.

You certainly should readmI did an article maybe two years
ago, three years ago, for the International magazine [The
Clarinet] about that, the concerto, which is basically the
same as the long forward which I did for my edition.

178

AC: I remember that article. I will go back to it.

PW: Yes. Andmthe [Mozart] Quintet, K. 581. Have you read the
article I wrote that came out in April of this year about the
quintet?

AC: I was away earlier in the summer and have not read that
issue yet.

PW: I will have to show you a copy of the Mozart Quintet. I
also want to show you the Stanford Concerto that I was given
by Oscar Street’s daughter. And something I haven’t mention -
I have a Cavallini manuscript which is on Fentone’s
publication list as a future publication.

You asked me about Mozart’s concerto. That’s why I did it.
AC: It’s certainly valuable information.

PW: Yes, and I think it’s quite a step forward. I obviously
think that until we can actually find the original, it's as
far as we can get. A lot of that is thanks to Pamela Poulin.
She’s a real specialist.

AC: I have your book Clarinet Teacher’s Companion. Have you
written other articles regarding education or teaching.

PW: Yes, I did a lot at one time. There was, I think there
still is, a magazine called The MMsic Teacher. Yes, the
editor — but there again, it was unpaid. That's hOW'mOSt of
these things are; it was just an honor to be asked. I did
write a lot of articles for her about various aspects. I
think it was all on playing and teaching.

AC: We spoke a little about your broadcasting experiences.
Would you explain more about the broadcast system, how you
get asked to perform, and things like that because that is
something we have less of in the United States. I don’t know
as much about that.

PW: How I started was not the usual way, you see. Things have
changed tremendously. I am sure that nobody could write in,
simply to say, ”Please can I have an audition? I would like
to give a recital." What you would have to do —-and there
again, most artists now have an entrepreneur which was hardly
ever done, certainly not for clarinetists in my day. They
would arrange it for you. They would write to the BBC and say
perhaps, ”Look, he or she is playing at 8 o’clock on Friday.
Please send a representative."

But, I didn’t expect this. As I told you, I played this
Mozart Quintet in the city with a very famous quartet [the

179

Blech Quartet]. I will tell you about the rehearsal for that
in a moment. The BBC came and actually wrote that they liked
the performance. I tell you whatmyes of course. [The BBC]
came to hear the quartet because it brought a new leader.
That was why. I was terribly lucky only to have them to write
and say that I was good.

At the rehearsal,mand like the [Mozart] Concerto, I was
playing the quintet from memory. At the rehearsal, I started
the slow movement of the quintet. I did the concerto slow
movement instead of the quintet! I stopped and said, ”So
sorry." Douglas Cameron, who’s the cellist, a very famous
concerto player as well, said, “Don’t worry Pamela, if you'd
like to play a concerto tomorrow, we’ll be with you."

So, that was a very nice beginning.
Now, it is extremely hard to get into the broadcast scene.

I think it was after I stopped playing that I got the
opportunity to talk on the radio, to give interval talks
which they had in those days. I don’t think there were any
discussions then; they came later.

AC: What do you mean by ”interval talks"?

PW: Well, theymfor instance, they might have a chamber music
concert and they’d have, as they do in a concert hall, a ten
minute break. So, they’d have an interval talk. If the
concert was with a clarinetist, I’d be asked to talk about
the soloists and the pieces.

I have also given complete talks on the clarinet on various
things.

AC: How often have you done this?

PW: I don’t know. It was spread over a long time. I’ve gotmI
think, tapes of all the actual talks I’ve done.

The other thing about my broadcasts, as a player, was that
before I came down here, I lived in Hertfordshire. I had all
these tapes of my playing and got them all put on CD. You’ll
never believe it: all my other CD3 arrived [at my new house],
but the box with my playing did not. I didn’t realize that
until maybe six months later. They are gone for good.

AC: That’s sad.

PW: Not that I would ever want to hear them, but just for the
record I would like to have them. I’m sorry they’re gone.

Talking about recordings. When we had this [International]

180

Congress here in London in 1984, I had the whole congress
recorded, all except one concert that the musician’s union
would not allow us to do. All that I had done, and there is
now a complete set of them in the Institute of Recorded Sound
in London. That’s useful for the students.

AC: It’s nice to have a record of past performances.

PW: Yes, particularly for famous ones like Richard Mfihlfeld
and Rosario Mazzeo. Does that name mean something to you?

AC: Yes.

PW: He came also that time and did a program on Simeon
Bellison which was absolutely fascinating. He had so much of
first-hand knowledge.

Alan Hacker, do you know him?
AC: I know the name.

PW: He’s an English performer who’s disabled; he’s in a
wheelchair, but I taught him at the Guildhall. He had a
thrombosis and was confined to a wheelchair. He’s now doing
quite a bit of conducting. He played an A basset clarinet
version of the Mozart Concerto at that Congress. I think
that’s one he’s published actually.

AC: The broadcasts that you talked for, were these regular
programs broadcasted every week?

PW: No. They were probably all just once.

About regular broadcasts: Jack Brymer, who’s got a lovely
speaking voice, he for a long time, maybe a year or more, had
a weekly evening talk about all sorts of musical things,
reminiscences and things. It was called the same title as his
book: ”From.where I sit". It was very unusual to honor a
clarinetist like that.

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[The interview continued on the following day, July 27,
2000.]

AC: I am interested in the educational system in England-—

PW: I thought you were interested in that. You could
almostmlike Jack Brymer always says his life can be divided
into special sections: Before [Sir Thomas] Beecham, With
Beecham, and After Beecham. And, I thought last night that
it’s slightly similar with me. It was: playing about twenty
years, then the teaching and then the research.

So, the teaching is a long time ago with me, but I’m quite
ready to answer any questions. But, I’m not really oriented
to teaching now. I couldn’t bother, for instance, to give
another clarinet lesson. I really couldn’t! So, anyway,
fireaway!

AC: Well, I certainly realize that things have changed from
when you were in school, to when you began teaching, to now.
I was wondering what the typical earliest age that students
get music lessons in school?

PW: Do you mean general music or clarinet?
AC: Well, both. Let's start with general music.

PW: Well, unfortunately, there’s a big deterioration in
general music teaching in the country for quite along time,
in the last ten or twenty years, because all the government
subsidized schools have had to cut down. They simply haven’t
been paid enough to have these classes. It’s terrible. It’s
been very much in decline. It’s meant that parents have to
pay for things outside of school which before they were able
to get out of our educational system. This doesn’t help the
future, I must say.

AC: The trend is continuing?

PW: Well, there are promises now. We had a new government
three years ago. As is typical of everything they do now,
they’ve been much criticized because they’re promising all
sorts of things with education and health service and so on,
but they haven't as yet made improvement.

So, that is the situation. Normally, at least when I was in
school, which was sixty-five years ago, we had music every
day. We always had music in what was called ”assembly" before
school. Very often, pupils might be asked to play at the
assembly. There was always music to start the day and always
some sort of physical activity with music. If it wasn’t
actually dancing, it might have been a gym class. Then, of
course, things like percussion classes and orchestra classes

182

almost everyday. Now, I think it's once a week. It’s awfully
sad.

AC: How old were you when you had music everyday? Were you
quite young?

PW: I was certainly at the primary school age until I went to
boarding school when I was about twelve or thirteen. After
that, it was much more specialized, you see. I had a very
good piano teacher, and she did music appreciation. That
class would meet one evening every week. Otherwise, there was
probably one singing class a week, but plenty of instrumental
playing.

AC: It sounds quite active then, with a lot of opportunity.

PW: Yes. And, I don’t know if you are findingmyou mentioned
that you have some adult pupils. I don’t know if you find the
same, but my adult pupils that I was getting at Putney were
complaining that they had practically no music, if any, at
their schools. That would be people in their forties or
fifties. It goes way back then.

AC: When do people typically start playing instruments?
PW: Are we talking about state or private schools?
AC: There is a difference there, isn’t there?

PW: Yes, absolutely. Because, again, there is a shortage of
funds in the state schools. The music teacher basically can't
because there isn’t the money to offer pupils individual
lessons. As I say, most schools can’t do that at all. So, if
they think a child shows some kind of interest or has a nice
singing voice (because they occasionally have to sing), they
might recommend to their parents lessons.

In the private school, I think it is much sooner, as I just
described to you that I had. I suppose, generally speaking,
if the child hadn’t already learned, which we did, then they
would have started at twelve or thirteen. Yes, primary
school, probably they would encourage things like the
clarinet, certainly.

[This led to a discussion of competitions for juveniles.]
PW: What do you think of them?

AC: I think it is too early. Too much pressure is put on the
child to succeed and doesn’t allow them to enjoy the music.

PW: I think so too. And it inevitably cuts down on their
social life and everything else. When, they’ve really done

183

all they can do in the musical world, and they have such a
short space of time and somebody comes along. What can they
do?

AC: I don’t know.
PW: Have you heard of Emma Johnson?
AC: Yes, I have.

PW: She is the most attractive performer. She won —-I think
she played a Crusell concerto — the Young Musician of the
Year quite a long time ago, maybe ten years. But, she’s just
faded out of the scene completely. It really was a flash in
the pan. Because she was very attractive, it seemed to go
against her in certain professional musical circles and
orchestras couldn't stand her. So, I think it is an awful
pity to exploit youngsters.

AC: How old was she when she won that competition?

PW: Well, she wasn’t very young, maybe sixteen. She’s in my
book, isn’t she?

AC: Yes.

PW: I did know her quite well at that time. She came out to
see me several times. She was then at the university. Of
course, having won that prize she was determined to go and
study, I think, historymEnglish history at one of the
universities. At the universities, if you are not doing a
music course, it doesn’t necessarily mean that you can’t be
in orchestra. She had lots of opportunities there. So, she
carried on in music, and she came to see me. I said, “well,
what are you going to do afterwards? Are you going to go to
one of the world famous clarinetists?" Because, the person
she learned from at school was not a very good teacher. ”Oh
no," she said, “I don’t care to learn from any others."

AC: Yes, I had heard that she really hasn’t studied with
anybody, that she was self-taught.

PW: No, she hasn’t. And, it’s all well to develop your own
style, but you must have some other people’s ideas.

AC: Sure.

PW: So, that made me very sad. I don’t think these
competitions should start until after the age of sixteen or
even seventeen. Competitions should be used to get experience
in playing and to get comments on playing.

Did I mention to you that Frederick Thurston had a daughter?

184

AC: Yes.

PW: She was an only child and was a marvelous clarinet
player, a beautiful player. But, she gave it up and got
married. She had a daughter who became a harpist. And, the
daughter was performing on the stage at a local music
festival. Elizabeth, that’s Thurston’s daughter, disagreed
with the judges’ results and placement of the daughter; the
daughter was not getting first place. She got up and ranted.
She had a heart attack and died! Dreadful.

AC: She had one?

PW: Elizabeth had one on the spot. And she was quite young.
She was so angry!

AC: For higher education, what degrees are typically offered?
In the states, there are bachelor’s degree, and then masters
and doctorate.

PW: We have all of those.
AC: How long does it take for each degree typically?

PW: I suppose it is three or four years. I don't know since I
never taught at a university. Pity you didn’t write to me
about that because the person you should have seen is Colin
Lawson. You’ve probably got some of his books. He was at
Leeds University, and he is now at Goldsmiths College in
south London which is basically a university. A very fine
player, particularly on old instruments. So, he would be able
to tell you all that about all that since I never went to a
university.

AC: How about for the schools where you went, such as the
Guildhall.

PW: As I told you yesterday, we didn’t do that kind of thing;
we didn’t have degrees. we couldn’t take degrees, but we’d
take diplomas which is specializing basically in performing.

AC: At those schools, such as the Guildhall, what kind of
course work did you do?

PW: The Guildhall is basically a college although it is
called a “school". The reason it was a school was that it’s
very old. I think it’s older than either the Royal Academy or
the Royal College. It was instituted in the city of London
where all the business takes place. It was originally started
for amateur musicians who worked in the city coming for music
lessons in the evenings. It was really only after the war,
when I became a student there on scholarship, that it began

185

to expand and do the same during the day all the time and for
would-be professionals. That’s why it was called a school of
music though it’s actually a college and has the same
standards as colleges.

AC: Most people go there to become performers rather than
teachers?

PW: Absolutely. Yes, I think they all would even though they
might perhaps have started with some famous player before
going there. There are all sorts of state universities and
scholarships now. Most [scholarships], I think would enable
them to go on having at least a few lessons with some star
performer. So, there are many more options. I think that that
stage it is still very, very good.

It’s at the school age that they’re not, on the whole,
starting so well.

How many years have you studied with Elsa [Ludewig-verdehr]?

AC: I have been with her for two years for my master’s degree
and two, so far, for my doctorate. I will have one more year.

PW: Yes. I think that Australia's universities are falling
into the same pattern. It is probably the same in England;
I’m not sure.

AC: How many years do people spend at the Guildhall
typically?

PW: About four years.

AC: That seems to be the standard then. It is a good amount
of time since you don’t want to stay too long at one place.

PW: That’s right. I think the aim is to launch them at the
right age, physically years-wise. Because, I mean, ifmfor
instance, there is a sixteen year old cellist who’s won this
year’s Young Musician Competition; he’s gone straight into
world-wide performance and has had no mixing with other
students. very sad. Very lonely life. Particularly as a
pianist, I would think.

AC: Sure, not having contact with people in orchestras. It
would depend on how much chamber music you would play.

End of Tape TWO

186

Tape Three, Side One

PW: Have you read my little book called The Clarinet
Teacher’s Companion?

AC: I’ve looked through it.

PW: That would tell you a lot. I mean, I haven’t changed my
ideas, so have another look at it.

AC: In college, at the college age, what repertoire have your
students studied? Scales and etudes, etc.

PW: Well, I’m not in a position to say because my own teacher
had no method whatever. I had to find my own ways. And my own
ways are in that book [The Clarinet Teacher’s Companion]. Let
me think what did I do? It depended on what stage the student
was at because I didn’t have only first study students the
clarinet; they had to do a second study.

And, you’re only doing the clarinet which surprises me.

AC: People who major in education do have to learn other
instruments; they may have a second study.

PW: So, you’re majoring specifically in the clarinet?

AC: Yes. It’s called “Performance”. There is a Performance
degree where you major specifically in the clarinet. Then
there is Education degree to be a high school teacher or an
elementary teacher. Then you would learn all the other
instruments.

PW: Yes. That certainly applied to those doing musical
education. You have to learn at least two instruments. But as
far as I know, it's still obligatory at all the three main
colleges -»of course, you mustn’t forget Trinity College
that’s quite important, but it is a minor college still. But,
at the other three, you have to do two instruments. Until
quite recently the Royal College, as well as the others,
insisted that one instrument was the clarinet. But, now the
Royal College allows you to do any two instruments.

So, as far as I know, all three of the main colleges insist
on two instruments even those doing the specifically
performance course. I think it’s right.

Supposingmyou might damage a tooth —-I mean, the great oboist
Leon Goossens damaged his teeth from playing — you and
couldn’t play your wind instrument. You would be stuck if you
couldn’t play your instrument.

I think you ought to have some piano lessons at some stage.

187

AC: I did when I was doing my undergraduate degree. At some
point, I would like to learn more. I realize how much it
would help me.

PW: It’s a tremendous advantage for so many things. I think I
mentioned it in connection with the editing I did.

We talked about Thea, who’s a really brilliant pianist. I was
a good pianist, but nothing like Thea, and I was able to play
parts with my pupils. Through your own playing —-of course
you can do it with your clarinet too, I suppose, but it’s not
quite the same musically. It’s as you’re able to play an
orchestral score, for instance. You can give them the feeling
of what it’s like playing in an orchestra.

AC: Yes, there’s a lot of benefits.

PW: I want to tell you about a very amusing pupil who played
quite well; she was a kid. She wasn't practicing, so I asked,
”Why haven’t you practicing these delightful pieces?” It was
all Mozart and so on. ”I don’t like them." So, I asked,
“Which classical composer do you like?" “I love Debussy." I
told her that he didn’t write a lot for clarinet, but what he
did write is very difficult. Luckily, I was able to find some
easy arrangements. She loved them, so she had nothing but
Debussy for about a year! But, when she was first able to
play one of the pieces well enough to play with
accompaniment. We played it together. She took her clarinet
out of her mouth. She was so excited! So, it does work.

The awful thing about teaching the clarinet is that if you’re
playing duets, you can’t talk to them. Can you?

AC: That’s true!
PW: You can shout at them and go on playing piano!

Now, back to the repertoire I would teach. Or, maybe we can
talk about what I would do in a standard lesson. Well, I
would also start with long notes, of course as Thurston would
do, however advanced the student was. Then scales and
arpeggios and the technical studies, Baermann. Then more
advanced studies particularly in more recent study books.
Then the pieces. Absolutely always some sort of sightreading
usually with some transposition.

AC: Have you taught orchestra excerpts as well?
PW: Yes. Absolutely, when the time was right for them. That’s

very, very difficult to do, isn’t it? To play an orchestra
3010 without the orchestra.

188

AC: Yes, I would agree.

PW: I would be very interested to know how students at the
Guildhall do their preliminary auditions. It was still very
haphazard when I was teaching.

Colin Lawson is the person who, if you come again, I would
strongly recommend that you see him. He’s very, very nice. He
has written quite a few things, but I think there is an
article by him in the last issue of The Clarinet. As a
member, you get your own copy, don’t you?

AC: Yes.

PW: He’s writes very well, and he was the editor of a book
produced three years ago called The Clarinetist’s Companion
published by Cambridge University Press which I wrote a
chapter on performers.

AC: Yes, I have that book.

PW: It’s a lovely picture that Suzanne Stephens gave me of
her and Stockhausen.

Colin was the Editor in Chief of that. He’s written also for
the Cambridge University Press a book on the Mozart works,
and that was very good. He’s very, very good with his
references.

AC: I will keep in mind as I look for things.
PW: Yes, do.

AC: Do you feel that young students with weak musical
training in schools who enter college or university with the
intent of studying music are at a disadvantage? Are they
weaker players perhaps when they enter?

PW: Not necessarily because musical talent is obvious at that
age. Therefore, parents have to fork out for the lessons and
they do that. But the actual instrument playing is probably
just as good as it was before the cuts were made. But, I
think they're very lucky in general music on the average,
even things like oral tests.

AC: Are there a lot of youth orchestras to give people a
chance to play?

PW: I think there may be perhapsmthere is the National Youth
Orchestra, which is very good. Actually, I think that when
they get in the finals of this Young Musician Competition,
they automatically go and play in the International Youth
Orchestra or the European Youth Orchestra. As far as ordinary

189

youth orchestras, there maybe five or six.
AC: Throughout England?

PW: Yes, throughout England and I think they are state
subsidized. That’s quite putting the cart before the horse,
isn’t it? Depriving them in their school years, at school,
and then they can go and do this. I think they’re basically
holiday occupations, but they don’t do it in the summer. Of
course we have a lot of very good general music educators,
awfully good in that sort of thing.

AC: I’m interested in how students gradually make it to
college and becoming musicians and what opportunities they
have.

PW: Yes. In a way, they need someone like you to become their
council to follow their progress through from quite an early
age. Another idea for you!

AC: Another thing I am really interested in is the roles that
women have in music in England. How much it has changed for
women musicians through the century.

PW: There is no problem for women at all now. But, maybe
until twenty years ago, it was a different story.

AC: Was it not seen proper for women to play musical
instruments?

PW: I don’t think it was seen as not proper. It was
chauvinism, pure chauvinism. And it was particularly hard for
women conductors; I think it’s still quite hard for them.
Jane Glover, who did that Brymer broadcast, she was really
the first one.mI am not quite right about that because there
was certainly a famous one, much earlier on. Do you know the
name of Ethel Smyth?

AC: Yes.

PW: She composed too. And she conducted orchestras, but she
had a rather special place. I think there was another one at
the time of Sir Thomas Beecham.

I’ve got one or two books upstairs about women in music. It’s
never been a topic that I’ve been the least bit interested
in. It hasn’t affected me.

AC: Not at all?

PW: No. But, I know it has affected Thea and other women.

AC: Why hasn’t it affected you?

190

PW: I think itmyes, funny you should ask me that. Basically,
it’s because I’ve found something that is quite different and
hadn’t been done before. So, in fact, to put it roughly, I
have no rivals at the moment.

But I hopemnow travel and interconnection is so much easier.
So, that if people like you were going to be a musicologist,
which I’m not, you’d have access to all these details and
court lists and so on. It would be so much easier to get a
hold of the information.

One day, there will be nothing to tell!
AC: I hope that’s not the case!

PW: It’s a funny thing, this chauvinism with regard to
particularly musicians because I don’t think it’s affected
painters as much. Because, I mean, it’s a long time now since
the woman was accepted as an equal partner in the home. WOmen
have been doing professions certainly ever since the war.
They’re model of the women today. I think it has affected
music more than the other arts.

Again, I think due to chauvinism, there’s probably a lot of
jealousy in that a woman soloist, particularly not a pianist,
but somebody who stands out in front of the audience in a
beautiful frock. Looking beautiful herself, the advantage she
might have.

AC: When were woman more present in orchestras? I spoke with
Thea about this and she mentioned it was during the war and
after the war.

PW: Yes.

AC: She did say that string players were first allowed and
the gradually wind players.

PW: Oh really? Yes, that's quite right. Because some of the
orchestras did it gradually. They allowed them first of all
to play the harp, but then to play a string instrument, or
rather a violin or viola. But, I think cello definitely came
afterwards. And then the winds. Then, very especially, the
brass. There’s quite a few very good brass players. Larry
Combs’ wife is a very good horn player.

Have you seen our wonderful female percussionist Evelyn
Glennie?

AC: I haven’t seen her, but I’ve heard several of her
recordings.

191

PW: They’re amazing things, what she’s done. She’s very good.

AC: Was there a certain performer, or performers who really
started the ball going for more women being common in
orchestras?

PW: Who basically, because of their skill is why they let
them in?

AC: Yes.

PW: There was a really good oboist called Janet Craxton and
she certainly, again, opened the field for women.

You might have heard the name Caroline Baxtor. She was a
harpsichordist basically, and did a lot of editing, basically
with recorder.

Do you play recorder?
AC: I used to a little bit.

PW: What is your opinion on the recorder as a starting
instrument?

AC: I see them as two separate instruments. The blowing is so
different and the embouchure quite different.

PW: I agree. If they start on the recorder and play it for
some time, they never really get that feeling that [the
clarinet] sounds through the end of the bell.

Now what about these special instruments that are for very
young players? Things like themJohn Denman’s got one called
The Kinder-Klari.

AC: I’ve seen advertisements for them, but have never seen an
instrument.

PW: It’s actually made in China, and I know it’s selling very
well out east. There is another one. I can’t remember the
name; it’s an English one. Maybe thirty years agomit’s not
thought to be very good. I don't think it’s very good. He
came to see me at some time, looking for sponsors. Graham
Lyons, the Lyons clarinet. Brymer felt the same about it
because the few keys that it had on, none of them were the
same as the normal clarinet.

The Lyons clarinet, as far as I remember is pitched in C
which is very useful if you’ve got a school orchestra. John’s
[the Kinder-Klari] is pitched in Eb and is that much smaller
of course. So it’s useful for beginners, but not useful in
ensembles.

192

AC: How different is this clarinet from the ”normal” Eb
clarinet?

PW: It’s exactly the same. That’s the whole idea of it. John
felt, as I say,mBrymer and many others felt that the Lyons
wasn’t quite right. That was by quite a time ago, maybe ten
years.

Anyway, let’s get on with your questions.

AC: You said that during your career, you haven't experienced
any chauvinism or bias?

PW: No, not even when I was performing, actually. In the
small chamber orchestras that I mentioned, there were quite a
lot of women particularly in the winds now that I think about
it, probably because a lot of ensembles were new after the
war.

AC: How about as a student, were you treated any differently
as a woman?

PW: No. It’s quite interesting. When I went first to America,
I told you, how I was astounded by the beautiful tone.
Certain other things I noticed, particularly about America.
One was that I think socially-— I don’t mean to be rude —
socially you are behind us in that sort of way. So, you
probably felt chauvinism longer, relating to the clarinet.

There are still a few orchestras in the world, aren’t there,
where they’re not allowed to have women. Did you know that?

AC: Yes, that's too bad.

PW: I’m not sure about that. Though heaven forbid that they
have a women's chamber orchestra. They have tried that in the
past, you see.

AC: I was also curious of the history of instrumental music
in England in general terms. In the beginning of the
twentieth century, were wind instrumentalists popular, or
were pianists or string players more so?

PW: Beginning of the twentieth century, I wasn’t alive then!
[Laughing] I think it was rather a slump area quite honestly
as it was in the last century which was generally referred to
as the Victorian Era. Queen Victoria lived a very long time
in 1837 right through the century. And it was all sort of
occasional pieces, never a decent sonata or concerto, really
basically until Mfihlfeld came over.

AC: About what time?

193

PW: It was at the very end of the nineteenth century. Shortly
after Brahms’ works were written for him. Brahms refused to
come to England because he was so afraid he would be sea-sick
when he crossed the English Channel. Such a shame. So
[Mfihlfeld] started it at the beginning of this century. The
famous Charles Draper was quite often playing chamber works:
trios, quartets, quintets, the occasional sonata. But, he was
still playing themes and variations and that sort of thing.

AC: I forget, when was Charles Draper really active?

PW: He was active at the beginning of the twentieth century,
until the beginning of the Second World War. In fact, when I
became student at the Guildhall School just after the Second
World War, he had only just left as a professor there.
Because it was such a minor school there, as I explained — it
was mostly for amateurs — he was playing first clarinet in
the school orchestra. I just missed him! By one semester!

AC: Oh, no!

PW: So, yes, the quality of works that were playedmwhen I was
at school just before the war in Germany, it probably
started, the serious chamber music concerts, just before.
During the war, the famous National Gallery, had a wonderful
series of lunchtime concerts during the time we were so badly
bombed. I lived in London at that time. They were done at
lunchtime in the basement, a converted basement. I think they
stored most of the paintings down there also. They made a
small concert hall and platform. They were lovely music,
lovely concerts. They were all classical works.

It was awful, the time they were bombing the docks. My poor
father who got back in the army phoned all the time, ”Why are
you up?" ”We’re going down to the basement." We got so bored
with going down to the basement, that we didn’t. we stayed in
our beds. We got lucky.

AC: I can't imagine that time.

PW

It would be very hard to imagine.

We mentioned yesterday that we had a lot of — got a lot
still —vof French and German musicians. And it is
interesting, I find more and more that very often a lot of
clarinet players were escaping at the time of the Revolution
and going over to America. And it must be quite some journey
at that time. What an adventure. Just chuck it all, going by
sea; it would take them weeks. Take their instruments with
them and not anything else at all.

AC: And to arrive with nothing, not knowing where to live.

194

PW: That’s right, absolutely. So, you’ve been very lucky in
that way. They didn’t want to come here; a few did actually.
It was of course a disadvantage in many ways for you.

AC: We talked a little bit about this already. When at the
beginning of the twentieth century did the clarinet gain
popularity?

PW: I think about in the 19203.
AC: Was it certain performers that brought that on?

PW: Certainly Charles Draper and his cousin Haydn Draper.
There weren’t really — that’s probably the reason actually.
There weren’t any very great players other than them at that
time. Lazarus had died, and Mfihlfeld had died. we were not
getting foreign artists between the wars.

AC: Was the clarinet used traditionally as a military
instrument?

PW: We’ve had, still have, wonderful military bands, yes.
They were very important. And quite a number of the famous
band masters of course moved through the ranks as
clarinetists. Yes, that has been important.

AC: Were these amateur players in these bands?

PW: Oh no, they were all professional players in the military
bands; they did this all the time and were paid minimum wage.
I think they had other ceremonial duties. They played
fulltime for the army, navy and the air force.

During the war, actually, quite a lot of male musicians were
able to go into the Royal Air Force Symphony Orchestra which
was of extraordinary high standard. Because they were all the
”cream", the better players, who had been called up in the
military. And so, if they were really good, they would go out
to the military camps, playing classical music concerts.

AC: That’d be a nice entertainment and break from the worries
of the time.

PW: It was a morale lifter.

Talking about that sort of thing, when I was traveling for
Clarinet Virtuosi TOday, I went to Russia. Valery Bezruchenko
[principal clarinetist of the Leningrad Philharmonic
Orchestra] told us all sorts of stories about the siege of
Leningrad which was a sixteen month siege by the Germans.
Everybody was living underground, literally if they were not
able to flee out of the city. The members of the Symphony
Orchestra would after dark-— in Russia, as well as all of

195

Europe, and England, there was no electric light allowed. It
was all candles. [The symphony members] would go around to
the churches where the people were mostly staying and give
them a concert a week. The things they did to keep up morale
was amazing. The things we as musicians can do for people!

Are you interested in music therapy?

AC: Somewhat.

PW: There is a large music therapy class at the Guildhall
School. I don’t know if the other schools have it, but the
Guildhall led the way. One of my students has gone into it
and is doing very well.

End of Tape Three, Side One

196

Tape Three, Side TWO
[On the styles of clarinet playing in England]

PW: Well, it was rampant when I was a student. You were
either a Kell fan, or a Thurston. And I think probably in
these last fifteen or twenty years things sort of settled
down; people knew where they were going. Most young players
had experimented with vibrato with disastrous results, all
sorts of different kinds of results.

AC: What were the differences between Kells’ and Thurston’s
playing?

PW: Well, it all involved the vibrato which Kell used and the
very pure, firm tone that Thurston used.

AC: Was that the only difference?

PW: Well, they had different personalities, so of course they
played quite differently. Kell was a very wonderful and
generous man. In a sense, he played in a generous way. I
remember going to the BBC studios once with some other
students to watch him at the rehearsal of the BBC Symphony
doing the Mozart Concerto, and he was standing on hismall his
weight on his right leg. He had a sort of foot stool thing
beside him, and he got his left leg caught up there. He was
sort of playing as if he couldn't be bothered. It was
extraordinary!

And another time, this was much later on when I was a
professional, the Buffet firm took over when Boosey & Hawkes
stopped making instruments. They were putting on all sorts of
things in London to attract a trail. They had a branch in
London for some time. They invited masses of professional of
clarinet players to a meeting in one of the hotels at which
“Mr. Reginald Kell, now a resident in America”, was coming to
talk to us. So, he’s coming; gosh, a new clarinet. How
exciting. They all turned up. There was an awful lot of
noise, everybody talking and no sign of Kell; he was at least
a half an hour late. He got up and took his clarinet in one
hand, and he walked slowly backwards and forwards and
frontwards (there was no platform). He said "The world is
getting much too large. We must get it softer and softer and
softer.” And he took about five minutes to do that. Then he
absolutely blathered. He was meant to entertain the show. we
were all saying ”What was that all about? Why’d we come?" It
was extraordinary!

AC: He sounds like a character and personality.

PW: And you see, it came out all in his music. It’s often
flamboyant and full of character. I think that even Thea and

197

other Thurston players would say that it is very flamboyant
and strikingly different, but it seems to be in very good
taste because it was genuine and so heartfelt. I think he was
a very good musician.

AC: Did they both teach in London?

PW: Kell didn’t do a lot. He came back to England, having
really failed to make good in America. Pity he ever went to
America because it wasn’t your “cup of tea" as it were. He
was more of England’s ”cup of tea". He was very good player.
When he came back, he was appointed to the [Royal] Academy,
but by then he was very full in the vibrato which had died
out.

And Thurston, of course, he died so young in his fifties. If
he hadn't died so young — many clarinet players, if you
remember my books, have lived into their eighties at least —
if he lived a nice, long time, things would have been very
different.

AC: Who were both of their main teachers?

PW: Well, they both definitely studied in EnglandmI’ll have
to look it up! I think that Kell was rather self—taughtmno, I
really will have to look them both up.

AC: And I can as well.

PW: You can, yes. I don’t apologize for that since I can’t
remember two-thousand clarinet players and where they
trained!

Now, wait a minute. Thurston studied with Draper, and Draper
studied with Lazarus? But, I can’t exactly think of Kell.

AC: Why were these two figures so important at that time?
What made them unique?

PW: Well, Kell quite definitely, because he was a bit of
phenomenon. And the reason he was really, is because he was
appointed first clarinet in Beecham’s orchestra, the
Philharmonic. [Sire Thomas] Beecham had appointed him
basically because he liked his vibrato because it would match
with the others, the famous oboist [Leon Goossens] who would
use a lot of vibrato as oboists do much more generally than
clarinetists. But that was the reason for that.

Thurston, I suppose partly because of his pedigree. As I say,
he studied with Draper who came from Lazarus. There really
weren’t any others to match that at that time.

There was a really great player who died after Kell left.

198

That was Bernard Walton. He played much in the style of
Thurston. He became so well-known in a very short space of
time. I was very interested when I went to Australia, and
I’ve been several times, to find how many of them, existing
clarinet players, had come to England to study with Bernard
Walton rather than Thurston. [Walton’s] particularly well-
known as an orchestral player.

AC: Are both of the Kell and Thurston’s styles still present
today? I realize that playing has changed.

PW: I don’t think present day students know much about them.
AC: No?

PW: No. I think that basically —-and this is very good — that
they are all going their own way. There’s much more
individuality I would say.

AC: One thing that Thea King had mentioned is that many
players today have started to sound the same.

PW: Yes, I think she’s right. Yes, I do think so. I think
that, unfortunately, things might be all ”combined" over the
world. Have you got Jack Brymer’s book On the Clarinet?

AC: No, but I need to look that up.

PW: Yes. It was written quite a long time ago, maybe twenty-
five or thirty years ago, but it is good in very many ways.
He does go into a fair amount detail about that, about the
different schools of clarinet playing in countries. And he
says, something I've often said, that would be such a shame
if everything came together and we all played the same, even
spoke the same language. I do think it’s very tied up in
language, don’t you? I mean with the shape of the mouth and
embouchure.

AC: Yes. I also wonder how much the equipment factor goes
into it, with the instrument.

PW: Oh, I would think so to a very big extent. I do also
think, and you may argue this, that say that someone like
myself who wanted to play like Frederick Thurston, not just
on a clarinet. If I had picked up any instrument, I might not
be able to do it straight away, but I would ultimately be
able to get the sound I want. I think it’s what you got in
mind.

AC: I think so. I remember trying some mouthpieces of
different facings for someone, and he said that I must have
known what I wanted to sound like because many of them
sounded similar.

199

PW: That’s very interesting. Going back to different
languages and the effect on the embouchure. The shape of the
mouthmI think it probably is very important. It probably
would stop the complete integration. Because, when you think
about itmI watch a lot of television and am absolutely
fascinated by it. There are lovely historical films, but
unfortunately very little classical music. You see these
foreign films, and it’s interpreted on the screen for you.
So, you see them speaking German, and the French with the
“wiggly-pigqu" tone that they get on the clarinet. There’s a
lot of languages that are very much rather open with lots of
”Ohs”, and I think that they would be frightfully good on the
bass clarinet, for instance.

AC: Good point.

PW: It’d be very interesting if somebody could do a
completely new type of playing. I suppose it’s a combination
of different things, reeds, ligatures and things.

AC: Who are some the important English clarinet players
today?

PW: Well, Alan Hacker, who I’ve mentioned. He’s very much
into conducting now though I think he’s still playing
clarinet. There’s Keith Puddy. Steve Trier, who’s just died.
But, none of them are of the same standard of Thea King, I
would say. That is, until more recently Michael Collins. You
may remember him from my book.

AC: Yes.

PW: He’s done quite well and is still doing extremely well as
a chamber player and a orchestral player. He is in the
Philharmonia Orchestra.

There’s another woman, Janet Hilton, who’s done quite well.
She's done a lot of recording of chamber music.

Georgina Dobrée. Do you know that name?

AC: Yes.

PW: Now, she'd be very good talking about teaching and
teaching repertoire. I think she’s still on the staff at the
[Royal] Academy. She certainly was for a long time. She’s
basically a contemporary with Thea. She’s particularly
knowledgeable on the basset horn.

AC: She’s recorded quite a bit, hasn’t she?

PW: That’s right. And she’s edited quite a bit of music too.

200

A nice person.
Now, I think those are definitely the most known players.

Thea is still playing which is remarkable. She didn’t expect
to still be playing.

AC: It seems that piano might be a little more important now.

PW: Yes, I think so. She's a very sensible person, and she’s
probably protecting her future very wisely.

I used to know [Thurston's] first wife. She was a daughter of
a brain surgeonma very nice person. She died unfortunately. I
think she died of a brain tumor. She was certainly with him
in the Bedford days.

I remember during one of my lessons that my bottom lip got
sore, or something feeble like that. I was complaining to
Thurston. You see, he just wasn't good at putting problems
right. He was frightfully good at inspiring you, making you
do it. And he couldn’t explain it, so he had me doing long
notes. Then he went to the door and called his first wife in.
“Look, Pamela, has been playing long notes for ten minutes.
She complains of a sore lip. There can’t be anything wrong
with it!”

I think one of the problems actually was thatmI mentioned
that I started with this elderly eighty year old, George
Anderson, and he was of the old school and used a double lip
embouchure. I began that way. Probably to begin, I was using
way too much bottom lip. Some players, even now, never use a
double lip; they have an awfully strong grip.

AC: Going back to the English style of playing. How has the
style changed?

PW: The big changes were occurring after the war because both
Kell and Thurston were gone. Really, it wasn’t stabilized
(let’s put it that way) until perhaps the last thirty years,
about the 19703, I would say. People were sort of playing how
they wanted to; they didn’t know if they wanted to go this
way or that [Kell or Thurston]. Mostly, unfortunately, they
were going the Kell way. And, Kell had gone off [to America].

AC: Funny, how that seems to have changed a lot.

PW: Absolutely. It was probably very, very beneficial
actually. I think it’s always good to try it as many
different ways, to experiment. I mean, to develop a pupil’s
imagination, I will always say to them, ”Play that phrase or
play that whole page. Play it straight throughmYou’re done
now. Play it differently, and do it as many ways as you can.”

201

AC: That could be difficult for some.

PW: If a student said that to me, I would say: ”Now, imagine
you were your father talking. Next time imagine that you’re
your younger sister who is such a nuisance."

That is why jazz is so good for music.

AC: That’s such a good exercise to develop flexibility and
interpretation.

PW: I think 30. Because you never, ever lay down a hard, fast
rule. I think that’s very important in teaching. Except when
—-and this is just like bringing up a child -like a
language, you’ve got to show them and tell them what they’re
doing with their technique.

When I finally got this Mr. Kealey, my second teacher, when I
got to the GuildhallmI got him, to a certain extent,
interested in me because he realized that I was serious and
expected to go on. He would swear at me and once said, ”Now,
Pamela, don’t you ever form habits?" I said, “I’m sorry, Mr.
Kealey. I suppose I don’t!” Because, I didn’t know, you see.
He hadn’t shown me; nobody had shown me. Basically, it was
little things. I would always end up with the wrong little
finger, going over the break!

80, I think it’s a terrible problem. There’s a debt we owe to
our pupils even if they’re amateurs. That’s very hard if you
get an amateur who’s advanced in that they can play the
Mozart Quintet or the Brahms Quintet, even if they play it
badly, if they’re never had tuition or a chance to have a go
at it.

It must be terribly frustrating if they don’t know why they
can’t play as well as they want. And, adults are always keen
listeners. They hear Jack Brymer and want to play like him
and don’t know why they can’t without an actual quartet.

Have you ever had any lessons yourself, playing a clarinet
work with a singer or a string player?

AC: I have had coaching in chamber ensembles, but not where I
was the only one being coached.

PW: I think it’s a very good idea. I had some lessons with a
cellist, Helen Just. I had a couple individual lessons with
her when I was quite advanced. It was terribly beneficial
because she would say, since she couldn’t understand the
difficulties of the instrument, ”Why is that note so bad?”

AC: Sure, they can pick out certain things.

202

PW: That tells you that your audience may be picking up
certain things.

What about a coaching with a string quartet? It was very
interesting. I interviewed Karl Leister for the book,
actually, in London. Before we did the interviewawe were
going to do it at the Royal Academy because at one time he
was a specialist coach there. He was coming over once a month
or something like that. He was going to give a master class
on the Mozart Quintet. I don’t remember who was playing the
clarinet. We were all expecting him to coach the clarinetist,
but he hardly addressed him. The string players: he tore them
to shreds! They were all sitting up and getting pink in the
face. It was so interesting. He was so knowledgeable about
string instruments. What he wanted, obviously, was how he
performed it himself with a string quartet.

AC: Do you feel that English clarinet music is performed not
as much as it should be?

PW: It’s played a lot.

AC: Maybe it is my surroundings (where I’ve been to school)
that it has not been done as much.

PW: It’s very interesting that you say that because I have
particularly noticed over the years, not just recently, how
many English works are being played in America. Do you ever
read in the last pages of The Clarinet where they present the
news of the concerts?

AC: Yes, I do.

PW: I am interested in what they play, and I always read both
the students’ recitals and the professionals’. And, I find
that in those that there is a lot of English music played.

AC: That is true. I know that the Bax is played and the
Finzi. I was interested to see if you thought it was not
represented. I know that through recordings that much has
been brought to light a lot. Perhaps it has gained more.

PW: Perhaps not so much actual recordings, but live
performances. And of course in the case of student recitals,
it is through the influence of the teacher.

I think that probably there were quite a few American players
of my generation who came to England to study. I doubtmI
wonder if too many of them went to Australia. Do many of your
contemporaries go to Australia to study?

AC: I don’t think so.

203

PW: No? See, almost all Australian clarinetists of my
generation studied with Bernard Walton. The present
generation of Australians have mostly gone to French
teachers. The Paris Conservatoire is very important.

Thea and I at one time had a sort of private dream: we would
open a wind instruments specialist school. We decided it
wasn’t altogether the right thing.

AC: Why not?

PW: Too specialized. But, it might —-I still think —-it might
have been good for precollege years.

AC: Maybe you should still take up that idea!
PW: No, you can do it!
AC: What honors and awards have you received for your work?

PW: I have the honorary memberships [of the International
Clarinet Association and Clarinet and Saxophone Society]
which I am very proud of.

AC: Well, you deserve more.
PW: Thank you!
AC: What do you find most rewarding about your work?

PW: Meeting the top players, quite definitely. Can you
imagine how marvelous it was going around with my
photographer friend, Gerald Drucker, who by the way did the
lovely photographs on the wall behind you. we went together
you see. He had this wonderful opportunity — he’s a very
gifted photographer —-of photographing the players talking to
me and not being aware of him, totally natural. That’s why
the photographs are so good. It was just absolutely amazing
talking to the wonderful players. Most of whom could speak
English. Their conditions are very different in the other
European countries. They are much better off in their
conditions, orchestral players. Gerald was very horrified to
find that. They had much better holiday times and holiday pay
too which the BBC orchestras don’t have. There’s far more
sharing of positions: two firsts, two seconds and so on. They
also have much better health insurance.

The only funny time about the language was one of the Prague
clarinetists, Kratochvil. He wrote to me —-he writes quite
good English, and he’s done a lot of research, particularly
into the Mozart works. This was a long time ago; he’s older
than me. He wrote to me and said that he trusted that I would

204

bring my own interpreter. So, when we got there, he came to
our hotel for our interview. He said, ”Have you an
interpreter?" I said, ”I haven’t got an interpreter, and I
can’t afford to pay one.” So we thought this was going to be
absolutely lost.

We had to do this in the hotel room. Gerald was taking
photographs. This man was sitting there, and I was sitting on
the bed with my tape recorder. Do you know that he talked
solidly in broken English for about two hours? And he wanted
an interpreter? Once these clarinet players get going, they
talk on end! It was so funny! Gerald and I kept sort of
winking to each other, wondering when he was going to stop!
It would have taken twice as long with an interpreter.

I mean, even in Russiamgenerally speaking in places like that
—-we did four Russians [for Clarinet Virtuosi of TOday] — and
the other eastern Europeans, if they were not able to speak
English themselves, they got a member of their family or a
friend who could.

AC: As part of my project, I have to do a lecture recital.
For this lecture recital, I have to perform a piece or
several pieces as well as speak about my paper. 80, I am
thinking that I would like to perform a piece that you’ve
edited. I was wondering there was something that you would
recommend or a piece that you’re most proud of?

PW: Something that is connected to me?
AC: Yes.

PW: Can I see the lists that I’ve given you? Because, it’s an
important question you’ve asked me, and I’m deeply honored.

As you’ve said, I’ve done a lot of things. Maybe you would
like to try the Stanford Concerto because that’s published
with a piano arrangement. But for a short work, how about
this? Have you performed the Schubert Octet?

AC: No.

PW: No? Because Schubert, curiously enough, scored for the C
clarinet, just for that one movement [Theme and Variations].
The rest of it is the Bb. That’s why they’ve done my edition
of that with piano and published it with a C clarinet part
and a Bb part. It’s very lovely. It’s quite a long movement
actually, the Variations. It’s very beautiful.

AC: That might be nice.

PW: You could talk quite a bit about the composition of the
octet. You can get all that from.my first book. It was

205

written for Friedlowsky. [Schubert] copied Beethoven’s
Septet. That’s one idea.

Or, one of the Weber concertos. You could talk about all of
the Weber works and why I did the arrangements.

I also did a Rimsky-Korsakov song [“Song of the Shepherd"]
you might have noticed. That, curiously, never took off. I
thought it would be so useful for voice and clarinet. There
again, it’s rather like the Verdehr Trio. There are not
enough trios for that particular voice [mezzo-soprano].

Or you could also do a movement from one of the Crusell
concertos. Op. 1 or Op. 11 which are less well-known.

AC: Well this, gives me a good start.
PW: Have you any more questions?

AC: No, I think this has covered everything. Thank you very
much for your time.

206

Appendix C

Discography: Thea King

* = Premiere Recording

+ Dedicated to Frederick Thurston

# Dedicated to Thea King

Note: Dates correspond to the date of recording

EMI: 1969
English Chamber Orchestra
Daniel Barenboim, piano

W.A. Mozart
Sinfonia Concertante, K. 2973

Hyperion: CDA66107 1983

Clarinet Quintet and Trio
Gabrieli String Quartet

Johannes Brahms
Quintet in B minor, Op. 115

Trio in A minor, Op. 114

Hyperion: CpA66202_ 1984

Clarinet Sonatas
Clifford Benson, piano

Johannes Brahms
Sonata in F minor, Op. 120, no. 1

Sonata in Eb Major. Op. 120, no. 2

207

Hmrion: CDA66905 1997
Robert Simpson

Delmé String Quartet

Robert Simpson
Quintet for Clarinet and Strings

Hyperion: CDA66199 1985

Clarinet Concerto and Quintet

English Chamber Orchestra
Jeffrey Tate, conductor

Gabrieli String Quartet

W.A. Mozart
Clarinet Concerto in A Major, K. 622

Clarinet Quintet in A Major, K. 581

Hyperion: CDH55031 1981
Clarinet Quartets

Allegri String Quartet

Bernhard Henrik Crusell
Quartet NO. 1 in Eb Major, Op. 2

Quartet No. 2 in C minor, Op. 4

Quartet NO. 3 in D Major, Op. 7

Hyperion: CD66708 1981-1982
Three Clarinet Concertos

London Symphony Orchestra
Alun Francis, conductor

Bernhard Henrik Crusell
Concerto NO. 1 in Eh Major, Op. 1

Grand Concerto No. 2 in F minor, Op. 5

Concerto NO. 3 in Bb Major, Op. 11

208

Hyperion: CDA66905 1997
Robert Simpson

Delmé String Quartet

Robert Simpson
Quintet for Clarinet and Strings

Hypergm: CDJ33009 1989
The Hyperion Schubert Edition Complete Songs, V01. 9

Arleen Auger, soprano
Graham Johnson, piano

Franz Schubert
Der Hirt Auf dem Felsen, D. 965

Romanze: Ich schleiche bang und still, D. 797

Hyperion: CDA662fi48 1990
Five English Clarinet Quintets

Britten String Quartet

Herbert Howells +
Rhapsodic Quintet

Arnold Cooke
Clarinet Quintet

Elizabeth Maconchy
Clarinet Quintet

Benjamin Frankel + #
Clarinet Quintet, Op. 28

Joseph Holbrooke *
Ewean Shona

Meridian: E77022

W.A. MOzart
Clarinet Concerto in A Major, K. 622

Louis Spohr
Concerto No. 4 in E minor

209

Hyperion: CpA66479

.Music for Clarinet
Britten String Quartet

Andreas Romberg *
Quintet in Eb Major

Robert Fuchs
Quintet in Eb Major

Sir Charles Stanford *
TWO Fantasies for Clarinet and String Quartet

Hyperion: CD22027
MUsic for Clarinet and Piano

Clifford Benson, piano

Sir Charles Stanford
Sonata for Clarinet and Piano, Op. 129

Howard Ferguson *
Four Short Pieces

Gerald Finzi
Five Bagatelles, Op. 23

William Yeates Hurlstone *
Four Characteristic Pieces

Herbert Howells +
Sonata for Clarinet and Piano

Sir Arthur Bliss
Pastoral

Franz Reizenstein *
Arabesques, Op. 47

Arnold Cooke #
Sonata in Bb for Clarinet and Piano

Peters Intepnational: PLG 135 1980
Facade

William walton
Facade

210

Hyperion: QA66001 1979

Clarinet Concertos

Philharmonia Orchestra
Alun Francis, conductor

Gerald Finzi +
Concerto for Clarinet and String Orchestra, Op. 31

Sir Charles Stanford +
Clarinet Concerto in A minor, Op. 80

Philips: 422-544—2 1991
Complete MOzart Edition, VOl. 45

members of English Chamber Orchestra
Mitsuko Uchida, piano

W.A. Mezart
Quintet for Piano and Winds in Eb Major, K. 452

CBS Masterworks: IM42099
members of English Chamber Orchestra
Murray Perahia, piano

W.A. szart
Quintet for Piano and Winds in Eb Major, K. 452

Ludwig van Beethoven
Quintet for Piano and Winds in Bb.Major, Op. 16

Hmrion: CDA66504 1989, 1991
Double Clarinet Concertos

Nicholas Bucknall, clarinet
English Chamber Orchestra
Leopold Hager, conductor

Franz Wilhelm Tausch *
Concerto No. 1 in Bb Major for TWO Clarinets, Op. 27

Franz Xaver Sfissmayr *
(completed by Michael Freyhan)
Concerto MOvement in D Major for Basset Clarinet

Franz Wilhelm.Tausch *
Concerto No. 2 in Bb Major for TWO Clarinets, Op. 26

211

Hyperion: QQA66215 1985
to be reissued: Helios (of Hyperion) CDH55068

English Chamber Orchestra
Andrew Litton and Howard Blake, conductors

Witold Lutoslowski
Dance Preludes

Maytas Seiber *
Concertina for Clarinet and String Orchestra

Howard Blake #
Clarinet Concerto

Hyperion: A660ll

to be reissued
Aeolian String Quartet

Sir Arthur Somervell *
Quintet for Clarinet and Strings

Gordon Jacob * +
Quintet for Clarinet and Strings

Hyperion: A66031
to be reissued: Helios (of Hyperion) CDH55069
Clarinet Concertos

Northwest Chamber Orchestra of Seattle
Alun Francis, conductor

Arnold Cooke *
Concerto for Clarinet and String Orchestra

Alan Rawsthorne * +
Concerto for Clarinet and String Orchestra

Gordon Jacob * #
Mini Concerto

212

Hyperion: CDA66088

(discontinued)
London Symphony Orchestra

Bernhard Henrik Crusell
Concerto NO. 2 in F minor, Op. 5

C.M.'Weber
Concerto NO. 2 in Eb Major, Op. 74

Hyperion: CDD2_2017 1981, 1988
The Clarinet in Concert

Georgina Dobrée, clarinet

Nobuko Imai, Viola

English Chamber Orchestra

London Symphony Orchestra

Alun Francis, James Judd, Andrew Litton, conductors

Max Bruch
Concerto in F.minor for Clarinet, Viola, and Orchestra

Felix Mendelssohn (first recording of orch. arr.)
arr. F. Mendelssohn
Concertpiece in F minor for Clarinet and Basset HOrn, Op. 113

Felix Mendelssohn (first recording of orch. arr.)
arr. C. Baermann
Concertpiece in B.minor for Clarinet and Basset HOrn, Op. 114

Bernhard Henrik Crusell
Introduction and variations on a Swedish Air, Op. 12

Louis Spohr
variations in Bb for Clarinet and Orchestra on a Theme from
Alruna

Julius Rietz *
Clarinet Concerto in G minor, Op. 29

Etienne Solere *
Sinfonie Concertante in F Major for TWO Clarinets

Gustave Adolf Heinze *
Konzertstficke in F.Major

213

.Saqa: 5206 1962
In Memoriam, Jahn Ireland

Alan Rowlands, piano

John Ireland +
Fantasy Sonata

Hyperion: CDA66634
to be reissued: Helios (of Hyperion) CDH55060

English Chamber Orchestra
Barry Wordsworth, conductor

Malcom Arnold +
Clarinet Concerto No. 1, Op. 20

Elizabeth Maconchy * +
Concertina NO. 1

Benjamin Britten *
orchestrated by Colin Matthews
Mavement for Clarinet and Orchestra

Elizabeth Maconchy *
Concertina Na. 2

Malcom Arnold
Concertina Na. 2, Op. 115

Malcom Arnold *
arr. by Christopher Palmer
You know What Sailors are - Scherzetta

Philips:
Janet Baker, soprano
English Chamber Orchestra

W.A. Mozart
Parta! Ma tu ben mia
(obligato, King)

RCA:
Margaret Price, soprano
English Chamber Orchestra

W.A. Mazart

Part0! Ma tu ben mia
(obligato, King)

214

Chantry Records: ABM 24 1977
Contemporary Clarinet, val. 1

Georgina Dobrée, Basset Horn

Richard Rodney Bennet
Crosstalk (for two basset horns)

_I_3BC Worldwide Mus_ic: BBCB 8011-2 1999
1972: A Live Performance

Heather Harper, soprano
Benjamin Britten, piano

Franz Schubert
Der Hirt Auf dem Felsen, D. 965

Hyperion: CDH55057 1987
.Music for Flute

William Bennett, flute

Heitor Villa-Lobos
Quinteta en forma de Choras

Choras Na. 2 for Flute and Clarinet

Trio for Oboe, Clarinet, and Bassoon

Saqa Classics: 1993
issued by Emergo Classics (Netherlands)

Aeolian String Quartet

W.A. Mozart
Clarinet Quintet in A Major, K. 581

BRL 21: 1975(?)

Little Orchestra of London
Leslie Jones, conductor

W.A. Mozart
Clarinet Concerto in A Major, K. 622

215

Appendix D

List of Publications:
Thea King

Clarinet Salas val. 1 and 2 for clarinet and piano (Chester
Music, 1976)

A Mendelssohn Collection for clarinet and piano (Chester
Music)

A Tchaikovsky Collection for clarinet and piano (Chester
Music)

Schumann for the Clarinet for clarinet and piano (Associated
Board of the Royal Schools of Music, 1991)

Mendelssohn for the Clarinet for clarinet and piano
(Associated Board of the Royal Schools of Music, 1993)

J.S. Bach: Duets far TWO Clarinets (Boosey and Hawkes)

Lennex Berkeley: Three Pieces for Clarinet ed. King (Chester
Music, 1983)

216

Appendix E

List of Publications:
Pamela weston

Books:

Clarinet Virtuosi of the Past (First Edition: Hale, 1971;
Second Edition: Weston, 1976; reprinted 1982, 1986,
1994)

The Clarinet Teacher’s Companion (First Edition:
Hale/Breitkopf & Hertel, 1976; Second Edition as The
Clarinettist’s Companion; Fentone, 1982)

Mare Clarinet Virtuosi of the Past (Weston, 1977; reprinted
1982 and 1992)

Clarinet Virtuosi of Taday (Egan Publishers, 1989)

Solo Clarinet/Collections:
First Clarinet Album (Schott, 1953)

Second, Third and Faurth Clarinet Albums (Schott, 1956)
First, Second and Third Albums of Duets (Schott, 1959)

Weston: 23 Steps for Yaung Clarinettists (Faber, 1970;
reissued: Fentone, 1984)

Classical Album for TWO Clarinets and Piano (Boosey & Hawkes,
1971, discontinued)

50 Classical Studies (Fentone, 1976)

17 Classical Salas (Fentone, 1979)
Clarinet Concert Pieces (Fentone, 1986)
50 Melodiaus Studies (Fentone, 1989)

17 Duets for Clarinet and Flute (Fentone, 1993)

217

Clarinet and Piano:
Berlioz: Clarinet solo from The Trojans for Clarinet in A and
Piano (Schott, 1958)

TWelve English Country Dances, with Walter Bergman (Schott,
1963)

Molter: Concerto No. 3 (Schott, 1968)
Stanford: Concerto, Op. 80 (Cramer, 1977)

Weber: Complete WOrks for Clarinet, Urtext, ”The New weber
Edition” (Fentone, 1986—1993)

Crusell: Concerto, Op. 11 (Universal Edition, 1988)
Schubert/Baermann: Songs (Universal Edition, 1988)

Schubert: Theme and variations from Octet, Op. 166 arr. for
Clarinet in Bb or C and Piano (Universal Edition, 1989)

Baermann: Adagio (Fentone, 1989)

Vivaldi: TWO Mavements from The Seasons (Fentone, 1989)
On the C for Clarinet in C and Piano (Fentone, 1990)
Crusell: Concerto, Op. 1 (Universal Edition, 1990)
Crusell: Concerto, Op. 5 (Universal Edition, 1991)

Borodin: Natturno arr. for Clarinet and Piano (Universal
Edition, 1991)

Rossini: Favourite Pieces from the Operas for Two Flutes,
with Heinz Stolba (Universal Edition, 1991)

Five Pieces for Clarinet and Piano (Fentone, 1992)

Elgar: Sonatine arr. for Two Clarinets (Universal Edition,
1994)

Satie: Jack in the Box (Universal Edition, 1996)
Mozart: Concerto, K. 622 (Universal Edition, 1996)

Mozart: Quintet K. 581 for Basset Clarinet (Fentone, 2000)

218

Clarinet, Soprano and Piano:
Hook: Three Songs for Soprano, Clarinet and Piano, with
Walter Bergman (Schott, 1962)

Arne: “When Daisies Pied” for Soprano, Clarinet and Piano
(Emerson, 1980)

Crusell: "From Ganges’ Beauteous Strands” for Soprano,
Clarinet in A and Piano (Emerson, 1980)

Watersan: Second Grand Trio Concertante for Three Clarinets
(Chester, 1981)

Spohr: “Ich bin Allein" for Soprano (Clarinet 2), Clarinet
and Piano (Nova Music, 1984)

Schubert: "Salve Regina" for Soprano (Clarinet 2), Clarinet
and Piano (Nova Music, 1984)

Rimsky-Korsakov: ”Song of the Shepherd Lell" for Mezzo—
soprano, Clarinet and Piano (Fentone, 1984)

Chamber Music:

Vanhal: Trio, Op. 20, no. 5 for Clarinet, Violin and Piano,
with Walter Bergman (Schott, 1965)

Eight Clarinet Trias of the 18th Century (Schott, 1968)

Brahms: Clarinet Quintet arr. Clarinet and Piano (Fentone,
1974)

Boufil: Grand Duo, Op. 2, Na. 1 for TWO Clarinets (Fentone,
1979)

Mfiller: Duo Concertante for TWO Clarinets and Piano (Fentone,
1980)

Mozart/Fuchs: Duets from The Magic Flute (Universal Edition,
1986)

Brahms: “Cradle Song of the Virgin" for Two Clarinets and
Piano (Paterson’s, 1986)

Mendelssohn: “Autumn Song" and ”I waited for the Lord" for
Two Clarinets and Piano (Universal Edition, 1986)

Rossini: Airs from the Operas for Two Clarinets (Universal
Edition, 1988)

Somervell: Quintet in G (Emerson, 1989)

219

Forthcoming:
Spohr: Recit ed Adagio (first edition) (Fentone)

Cavallini: Carnevale for Clarinet and String Quartet
(Fentone)

Yesterday’s Clarinetists: A Sequel (De Haske, 2002)

220

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David Campbell." The Clarinet 27, no. 2 (March 2000):
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Curtin, Rosemary. "The Legacies of Two English Clarinetists:
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Gibson, Lee. “Reginald Kell: The Man and his Music." The
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Gillespie, James. "Interview with Pamela Weston." The
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———. Letter to author, 6 March 2001.

———. ”The Legacies of Two English Clarinetists: Frederick
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ClariNetwork 1, no. 4 (1982): 5.

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Weston, Pamela. Interview by author. Hythe, England, 26 and
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-——u The Clarinet Teacher’s Companion. Landon: Breitkopf &
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222