1
                                         Sylvan Wittwer
                                        November 30, 2000
                                          Jeff Charnley,
                                           interviewer
Charnley: Today is Thursday, November 30, the year 2000. We’re in Logandale, Nevada. I
am Jeff Charnley, interviewing Dr. Sylvan Wittwer for the MSU [Michigan State University]
Oral History Project for the sesquicentennial of the institution to be commemorated in the year
2005.
        As you can see, we’ve got a tape recorder here, Dr. Wittwer. Do you give us permission
to tape this interview?
Wittwer: I have given you permission.
Charnley: I’d like to start first with some personal background and educational background.
Where were you born and raised and where did you go to school prior to college?
Wittwer: I was born and reared in Hurricane, Utah, in 1917, I presume during the first World
War. I went to high school at the Hurricane High School, graduated there in 1935.
Charnley: What was that community like when you were growing up?
Wittwer: Of course, I grew up during my teenage years during high school during the Great
Depression. It was a very depressed area. The community was about a thousand people. We
were poor. If we didn’t grow it, we didn’t have it. We produced about everything that we were


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able to have to eat. We had no supermarkets then. We had a grocery store, perhaps, maybe a
drugstore, but we seldom went there because we had no money. Much of the trade that we
encountered, of course, was by barter.
        We were on the farm, and we produced milk and eggs and meat. Often this would be
bartered for essentially groceries or, let’s say, ice on Sunday to make ice cream--
Charnley: That was essential.
Wittwer: --which happened occasionally. But there were some things that we did have to
purchase, and this was often done by bartering and by selling and peddling the fruit that we had
in southern Utah at that time, taking it further north into Cedar City. I went often during the
growing season, during the summertime, with my father to peddle fruit. That was a small
source of money income, cash income.
Charnley: Did you have a specialty fruit?
Wittwer: Well, a vegetable and fruit farm, and also, as I said, if we didn’t produce it, we didn’t
have it. So there was grain and alfalfa. We had livestock, which was, of course, maintained by
the crops that we produced or the pastures. The meat that we were able to have was meat that
we produced ourselves, chickens or pigs, as we called them, and beef, and eggs, of course, that
were available, milk that was produced by the cows. We were poor in those days, but we didn’t
know it because everyone else was poor.
Charnley: Did you go on to college right from high school?


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Wittwer: I was inspired while in high school--I was in what they called the Smith-Hughes area
in vocational agriculture--by a very fine teacher by the name of Elmer Graff. He often talked to
me. “Sylvan,” he said, “you could go on to higher education. You should go on to obtain a
doctor’s degree in agriculture.” It was through the inspiration of that vocational agriculture
teacher, who was also the basketball coach, to go on to college. I owe a great deal to him and
also to my parents, who, likewise, encouraged me to do so.
Charnley: Did you play basketball?
Wittwer: I didn’t play basketball. I despised basketball. It was the only athletic sport in the
high school I went to. There was no track. There was no football. There was only one
competitive sport, and that was basketball. And I hated it.
Charnley: But Mr. Graff was the coach.
Wittwer: He was the coach, but he was also the vocational agriculture teacher, and it was
through the vocational agriculture program that I was inspired to go on to further my education.
Charnley: Where did you do that?
Wittwer: That was done at Utah State, what was then Utah State Agricultural College, in
Logan, Utah, now, of course, Utah State University. At that time, the University, or the college,
Utah State Agricultural College, had a total enrollment of about 2,000. Of agriculture, of
course, horticulture was an important department, and there I had the opportunity to have as an
advisor Alma Wilson, who was also an inspiration for me to proceed to go on and do graduate


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work.
         In the meantime, of course, I fell in love and married my sweetheart. We were married
after I had completed my junior year. We, likewise, stayed on so that she could receive her
degree. In the meantime, there was a baby came into the family. I enrolled in 1935 at Utah
State Agricultural College. In 1940, I applied for graduate work at three institutions: Texas
A&M University through contacts I had at Utah State, and also to the University of Missouri in
Columbia, and also Cornell University. I received the same offer from each one: 600 dollars a
year as a graduate research assistant, half time. The price was the same, 600 dollars a year, 50
dollars a month.
         In 1940, then I departed for the University of Missouri. I selected that university
primarily because of the professor that I’d be working with, who was Dr. A.E. Murneeck. So in
1940, in September of 1940, I, with a wife and a child and all the worldly goods that we had with
a few cardboard boxes, we departed with the help of a friend to the University of Missouri in
Columbia and arrived there.
         To me that was a dramatic change. I’d never been east of the Rocky Mountains. It was
hot and humid, and we’d never experienced that kind of a climate. Of course, there was an
entirely new group of people, an entirely new group of professors, a new university. It was a
real challenge. But we pursued this, and graduated in 1943 with a doctoral degree in
agriculture.
Charnley: What was your dissertation research?
Wittwer: My dissertation had to do with the physiology of reproduction in higher plants, with
special reference to synapsis and syngamy. It became published in its entirety as Missouri
Research Bulletin 371. It was reprinted several times and considered by some of my professors


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at the University of Missouri as a classic, but published intact, no alteration at all. Took my
thesis and published it as a bulletin, the entire thesis.
Charnley: How did you come to that topic? Were you steered in that direction?
Wittwer: First of all, it had to do with horticultural crops. [unclear] horticulture, and my
major professor suggested the problem, the area, and it was an area that I was very interested in
to begin with. Actually, it involved the identification, in a very crude way, of naturally
occurring growth substances or hormones in plants, phytohormones, that stimulated reproductive
responses in plants such as flowering and fruiting.
        One of the outcomes of this was the isolation, with the cooperation of people at Caltech
in Pasadena, California, in the isolation of a new compound, indotheasytic [phonetic] acid, which
is a naturally occurring plant growth hormone.
Charnley: How was that used?
Wittwer: It’s used to extend the growth of flowering and fruiting, growth in plants. Of course,
from this many other analogs were derived that were even more effective in that naturally
occurring. This often happens in the isolation of food materials, native materials from plants,
that there are sometimes chemical analogs that will be somewhat superior in certain reactions
than the original material.
Charnley: What happened after your dissertation and your degree?
Wittwer: I was encouraged to stay on at the University of Missouri. Well, then, actually at the


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University of Missouri I earned 600 dollars a year, 50 dollars a month, with a wife and child,
which was a challenge in itself, even in those days, and was able to, with the aid of renting
apartments and managing them and also growing a garden in Columbia, Missouri, in obtaining
that degree without financial debt. With a wife and a child and a degree in 1943.
        After that, I was encouraged to stay on in the department as an instructor, which
graduated my salary from 600 dollars a year, 50 dollars a month, to 1,800 dollars a year. In
other words, a threefold increase, which was dramatic in those days.
Charnley: Were you living like kings?
Wittwer: Not quite, but we were fortunate also in being able to obtain a home without a down
payment for 3,500 dollars a year, including taxes and utilities. Well, not utilities, but taxes and
insurance. That’s 3,500 dollars total cost, $43.50 a month.
Charnley: You remember the payment.
Wittwer: Which covered the interest, which covered the payment on the home, and also
covered insurance and taxes. In those days, we didn’t income tax, as I recall. As I recall, also
we didn’t have to driver’s license for cars.
Charnley: In Missouri.
Wittwer: Or Utah.
Charnley: No driver's training?


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Wittwer: Well, there was no driver's training. In Utah, my father purchased a car before I
departed for college in about 1926. I must have driven that car when I was probably ten or
eleven years of age or younger, without a license.
Charnley: My grandparents had purchased their first refrigerator before they had electricity.
It was waiting on the porch.
Wittwer: We didn’t have a refrigerator when I grew up. We didn’t have a radio until I was in
high school. Of course, television was unheard of.
Charnley: How did you preserve most of your food?
Wittwer: The food was preserved by salting or by processing, canning, bottling, as we called
it, and just dehydration. Of course, the meat we had on the farm. We would slaughter the
animals as we would need them.
Charnley: Keep it fresh.
Wittwer: By salting the bacon and so on, with pork you could keep it through the winter. We
also, in those days, my father would go deer hunting and would get fresh venison, at least in the
fall of the year for a while. We also had rabbits and squirrel, rabbits and quail we’d shoot. We
didn’t have restrictions then in terms of wildlife then that we have now.
Charnley: Hunting for subsistence was common.


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Wittwer: Hunting was a common process. We didn’t have coal in my hometown of
Hurricane. First time I saw coal was when I was in high school. We obtained our fuel by
cutting wood in the nearby mountains, the Little Creek Mountain. We’d go out and cut down
the cedar trees and the pinion pine trees and haul them in and use them for firewood.
Charnley: How far away was that?
Wittwer: About twenty miles. That was the source of our fuel.
Charnley: By horse and cart?
Wittwer: By wagon.
Charnley: How long were you at the University of Missouri?
Wittwer: I was at the University of Missouri until 1946.
Charnley: Then where was your next stop?
Wittwer: Next stop was Michigan State University.
Charnley: How did you first hear about Michigan State University?
Wittwer: Well, I attended a meeting. I attended a meeting, a horticultural meeting in St.


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Louis, Missouri. At that meeting, I gave a paper concerning my research at the University of
Missouri, which at that time had graduated into growth regulator or hormone effects on plants,
which was considered of considerable interest at that time in a national meeting of the American
Society for Horticultural Science. This was, of course, a very small society in those days. One
probably very near could have been a charter member of that society. For the entire United
States, there was not a large number of people, maybe thirty or forty people there. I gave a
paper. There were those there that were present from Michigan State University, including Dr.
H.B. Tukey and Robert Carolus. They visited with me very briefly. I just came to know that
they were there.
        After the meetings, I received a letter from Dr. H.B. Tukey, inviting me to come to
Michigan State University for an interview as assistant professor of the Department of
Horticulture. I went for that interview. I remember I took the old Grand Trunk Western from
someplace in Missouri, I think it was Centralia, to Chicago and then on to Lansing, Michigan.
I’m not sure whether the old Grand Trunk Western is still a train that goes into Lansing,
Michigan, or not.
Charnley: I took Amtrak from Leslie or Jackson to--
Wittwer: When I arrived in Michigan, I was disoriented by a ninety-degree angle. In other
words, the sun was setting in the north instead of where it should have been. I was disoriented
for the fifty years I was in Michigan as a result of that. Never did get myself straight oriented as
long as I was in Lansing. But when I left Lansing, outside of Lansing, I then became properly
oriented with respect to direction, which resulted in me getting lost in Lansing even up until the
days I left.
        But at that time, I was met by Dr. H.B. Tukey at the train station. We had breakfast


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together, then proceeded to go out to the university to be interviewed. In that interview, I was
interviewed by Director B.R. Gardner, the director of the Michigan Agriculture Experiment
Station, one of the famous horticulturists of the past. I was also interviewed by Anthony, Dean
Anthony. What’s his first name? I can’t remember his first name. Dean Anthony with the
College of Agriculture. I was also interviewed by John [A.] Hannah, who was then the
president of the university. And also, as a guest in the Horticulture Department, a Mr.
Armstrong from Sunkist Corporation in California, was also a guest when I was there. So I
became acquainted with him. I remember B.R. Gardner had his office, the director of the
Agriculture Experiment Station, in the Horticulture Building, a temporary spot for him.
        Then I returned back to Michigan. Michigan State, of course, paid my way to come to
Michigan to be interviewed. Then pretty shortly after I returned, I received a letter from Dr.
Tukey, inviting me to come to Michigan State University and join the staff as an assistant
professor for the total of 3,800 dollars a year. And I thought that was an enormous increase
over 1,800 dollars. Well, of course, that sounded real good, and so we departed.
        It was difficult to find a place to live in those days. Dr. Carolus said, “If you’ll come to
Michigan, we’ll find you a place to live. We’ll find you a house.” In the meantime, I had a
house in Columbia, Missouri, at 109 McBain Avenue, which, incidentally, is still there. We
went back this week in Thanksgiving in St. Louis, Missouri, and went to Columbia, saw the old
house at 109 McBain Avenue in Columbia, Missouri, and the house is still there. That was the
house we purchased without a down payment for, I think it was 4,200 dollars.
Charnley: And it’s still there.
Wittwer: It’s still there. That was in June of 1946. We were offered to come either July 1 or
September 1, to Michigan State University as an assistant professor in horticulture. We decided


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on the date of September the 1st. So we departed and arrived in Michigan September 1st of
1946, with a tremendous salary increase. By that time we had a second child, two little girls.
Of course, having been in Missouri some six years, we had many friends in Missouri, and it was
a little difficult to leave there, but we immediately made friends in Michigan.
         Now, one of the interesting sidelines to this story is that when I was invited to Michigan,
they thought I was someone else. There was another professor, another young man at the
University of Missouri, by the name of Ray Schroeder, and they thought they were inviting Ray
Schroeder, and I showed up instead. I didn’t learn of that until years later. But my appearance
there was impressive enough that they hired me. [Laughter]
Charnley: That’s amazing.
Wittwer: That’s a true story. I didn’t learn that originally.
Charnley: How did you find that out?
Wittwer: Someone told me at Michigan State. I don’t know whether it was Dr. Tukey. I
think it was Dr. Tukey. That was an interesting introduction.
         At Michigan State University, of course, things went very well.
Charnley: How would you describe the campus in those early years?
Wittwer: Well, Berkey Hall was being built, and it was used entirely for a classroom, because
the great deficiencies at Michigan State University were classrooms for students. There was an
enormous enrollment that happened in 1946. About 10,000 students arrived, 10 to 12,000


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students. That had not been the case during the war years, and they were hiring lots of people.
Just placing the whole classes was a big challenge. That’s what Berkey Hall was used for. I
think it’s still used for that purpose. If Berkey Hall still exists there.
Charnley: It does.
Wittwer: Across the street from the Horticulture Building. There was just enough teaching
capacity. Of course, they lacked professors and lacked space. This was during the great and
grand period of John Hannah when there were many buildings being under construction. Many
buildings were being planned and developed. The auditorium. The greenhouses back of the
Horticulture Building were the only greenhouses on the campus. In the Horticulture Building
itself, there were no chemical laboratories, only one big one that was used by everybody.
         One of the first things that I did rather early in my career, in the 1950s, was to make an
application to the National Science Foundation for something like, I believe, 150,000 dollars to
refurbish and construct, build, get some laboratories in the building, teaching laboratories,
research laboratories. That was one of my first successful endeavors was to persuade the
National Science Foundation to make a sizeable contribution to the development of laboratories
in the Horticulture Building.
         Of course there was another adventure when Dr. Tukey at this time had, with the
Michigan State Horticultural Society, the intent of obtaining a million dollars, a million dollars to
remodel the Horticulture Building and to initiate the building of new greenhouses, which came to
be known in about 1950 as the finest greenhouse structures in the United States, known then as
the plant science greenhouses out on Farm Road. They are still there, but, of course, have had
many other facilities added to them since then.
         I remember that Dr. F.W. Went, from the California Institute of Technology, came by as


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a guest. F.W. Went was a very famous plant physiologist, and he commented, he said, “You
have the finest greenhouse facilities in the United States.” This is when Dr. Went was at the
California Institute of Technology and had developed the so-called phytotron. That, of course,
was a very good facility.
Charnley: Dr. Tukey was successful in that fund-raising?
Wittwer: Yes. Dr. Tukey was very successful in fund-raising. He was a good department
chairman.
        I enjoyed every moment I had at Michigan State University during the some forty years
that I was on the faculty. I stayed ten years after I stepped down from being the director of the
Experiment Station. During those forty years, I was associated with Michigan State University,
every year I was given a salary increase, which is more than I thought I deserved. I was more
than satisfied with the way that Michigan State University treated me. I owe a great deal to
Michigan State University for what it’s done for me, for the privileges that I had there and the
opportunities I had, the research facilities I had, the money I received from the university, the
support I received from the university.
Charnley: Dr. Tukey recognized your abilities in research?
Wittwer: Dr. Tukey recognized my abilities in research and in teaching, very much so. The
dean did. The director did. Following Director Gardner, of course, was, I believe, Cliff Horton
[phonetic]. Then Cliff Horton became, later, the Secretary of Agriculture, became the dean in
the College of Agriculture. He, in turn, was followed, as I recall, by Lloyd [M.] Turk.


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Charnley: Did you replace him?
Wittwer: Yes. Well, that was a situation that Lloyd became somewhat nonfunctional. When
I went in as director of the Experiment Station, I didn’t want it.
Charnley: What year was that?
Wittwer: By the year 1964, probably about eighteen years after I arrived at Michigan State
University, there was a need for a new director of the Agriculture Experiment Station because
Lloyd just wasn’t doing a good job, had problems. Dean [Thomas K.] Cowden, who was the
dean at that time, he followed Cliff Horton. Tom Cowden, T.K. Cowden.
        I had good relationships with all the deans and the directors and the professors there.
But Dean Cowden called me over several times. Well, in the meantime, of course, Dr. Tukey
passed away--or was retired. He didn’t pass away. He retired, had to retire. He was replaced
by John Carew [phonetic] as chairman of the Department of Horticulture. John Carew was a
good department chairman. But then after a few years, he got a brain tumor, malignant, and he
died. But prior to his death, two or three years before that, this was when Cowden was inquiring
about a director of the Agriculture Experiment Station. He called me over several times. I
said, “Dean, I’m not the man.” I said, “I’ve recommended to you now several times, I’ve
recommended--“ and I'd run down the list. I said, “I don’t want it.”
        He said, well, the last time he was there, he said, “All I want to know is whether you’re
interested or not.”
        After he’d done that three or four times, I said, “Dean, if I tell you I’m interested, that’s a
commitment. I don’t want to make that commitment.”
        Well, anyway, he finally persuaded me to say I would be interested. I think to myself,


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and I said, “Look, will I be able to look at myself in the mirror the rest of my life if I don’t
respond to this?” But I didn’t want it.
        At that time, I had--well, let's see just a moment in my history. I had several
postdoctorals, I had several graduate students, and I had a separate laboratory. I had all the
research grants I wanted, and I was a full professor. I did what I wanted to do. But anyway, at
that time, well, here’s the group right here. This would be of interest. It’s in my history. It’s
called "the Great Group." This was by one of my graduate students, Aubrey Tannan [phonetic].
 Then over here it says Aubrey Tannan is written a little of my history also. There he talks
about "the Great Group." So I had what I wanted, and I was getting research grants from NSF
[National Science Foundation], and I had the postdoctorals all over the world.
        I was ready to depart on a foreign trip for about five weeks. I’d been invited to go to
Ethiopia, to the Netherlands, Italy, to Lebanon, and to Turkey for a series of presentations of
former graduate students that got in the act, you know. Cowden got wind of it, of course. He
was the dean. It was about the middle of May, and he said, “I want to see you before you
leave.” We met in Kellogg Center, had breakfast there. I remember that Cowden was there
and the provost. Who was the provost at that time?
Charnley: In 1964?
Wittwer: Yes. Well, he was there.
Charnley: Okay. We’ll look it up.
Wittwer: And the president showed up. I said, “Oh, this is it.” So they wanted to know,
“Are you interested?” I said, “Yes, I could be interested.” And I left. That was in the


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morning, and at ten o’clock I was on my way to Detroit International, over to the Netherlands. I
didn’t come back until about the middle of July. Of course, when I--
[Begin Tape 1, Side 2]
Charnley: This is side two.
        When the tape ended, we were talking about the Ag Experiment Station and your
becoming director. When was it effective?
Wittwer: August 1, 1964, as I recall. I think that’s right. Well, anyway, at this point I had all
these students, postdoctorals, and I had to move my whole office and headquarters over to Ag
Hall and occupy the office that Lloyd Turk had occupied, which was in itself a little odd because
Lloyd was promoted down as associate director. Lucille Adams had been his secretary now for
years, and now I was the head honcho, which placed me a little bit of a--but Cowden came in,
“We want people to know that you’re the director.” In other words, I had full support.
        I asked Tom, I said, “Would you support me? Do I have your support if I’m in this
Experiment Station?”
        I asked Hannah that also. Hannah said, “I know you can do the job.”
        I said, “What’s the job?” I asked Hannah, “What’s my job?”
        He says, “Sell agriculture and eliminate all the nonessential projects you have in the
Experiment Station.” That’s the research projects. Of course, I tried to do that for twenty
years.
        After that, I was in a little awkward position. I was placed in an awkward position by
the dean. He knew it and I knew it, but we worked it out. I had a very pleasant association
there with--of course, Tom Cowden is deceased now. He took a job about six years later and


                                                                                    17
went to the Assistant Secretary of Agriculture with Cliff Horton up in Washington.
         We had a new dean, Dean Larry Boger. I think Boger is still living, isn’t he?
Charnley: Yes. He’s in Oklahoma, and I have to schedule an interview.
Wittwer: I would think so. Boger was a fine dean also. We differed. I differed with all the
deans in some ways. But I told them, I told Cowden, I said, “If I’m director of the Experiment
Station, I’m going to run the Experiment Station and you won’t.” He had been doing that, you
know. Had to. Of course, that was pretty much the pattern that we followed for the time that I
was in the Experiment Station.
Charnley: What had been the emphasis prior to you taking over in, let’s say, maybe the ten
years before, in terms of research?
Wittwer: Well, there’d been very little in the way of federal grants, as I recall. I was very
critical of the Agriculture Experiment Station. In their publications, one of the things I did very
shortly after I became a director, is I eliminated one of the publications that goes out regularly.
I can’t remember what the name of it is.
Charnley: It had been published?
Wittwer: It had been published for years. I can’t remember what it is.
Charnley: We can check that.


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Wittwer: That was one of the first things. Getting public relations people in there that could
advertise and sell the programs. I spent a great deal of time myself out giving talks and meeting
the people, going out and seeing what the research people were doing on research projects, on
campus and off, in the outlying field stations. In other words, the director for research ought to
be where the research is, and we didn’t have that.
        I initiated a competitive grant program in the Experiment Station within the university
itself. Our budget was low. We went to the state legislature and spent a lot of time in budget
hearings directly with the legislature and with the governor’s office. Our research budget was
low. We had about a five-million-dollar budget when I went in there. When I left, we had
thirty-million dollars. In other words, we worked with line items, specifically, research projects
that should be done in Michigan with state funds.
Charnley: Did you find Governor Romney was receptive to that?
Wittwer: Yes. He was the governor at that time. Incidentally, he’s gone now, too.
Charnley: Yes. His son was just recently elected as a board of trustee member.
Wittwer: That must have been Mick.
Charnley: Scott Romney.
Wittwer: Scott. Well, Mick, of course, is running the Olympics, Salt Lake for the Olympics.
Charnley: Right. And Scott was just elected for the board of trustees.


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Wittwer: That’s good. I didn’t realize that.
        Well, Romney was the governor then. He was receptive, not unduly so. I knew
Romney. I had personal acquaintance with Romney. I was involved in the church with
Romney, so we knew each other. But we dealt primarily with the legislature, with the--I forgot
the finance committees.
Charnley: Nick [Dominic J.] Jacobetti.
Wittwer: Jacobetti was one. Garlaine [phonetic] from Flint was chairman of the
Appropriations Committee in the Senate. I did a lot of work with Garlaine, letting him know
what’s going on, why we needed it. In other words, this was important for Michigan, the
research we were doing. We spent a lot of time educating the legislature. At this time, also a
very important component.
        At the time I went in as director as the Experiment Station, Pat Ralston was director of
Extension. Pat Ralston was not too effective in going about funding. Is Pat still alive?
Charnley: I don’t know.
Wittwer: Well, anyway, he was my cohort. We had three budgets, of course: we had the
university budget, we had the Experiment Station budget, and we had the Extension budget.
Three separate budgets within the university. But Pat was replaced by George McIntyre
[phonetic]. Is George McIntyre still living?
Charnley: I don’t know.


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Wittwer: Probably not. But George McIntyre, he was former director of agriculture, in the
Department of Agriculture, Michigan Department of Agriculture director in the State
Department. George McIntyre came, and we got along wonderfully well.
         At this time, I also introduced visual aids. I used visual aids in giving talks out in the
state, slide projectors, showing visually. We received a lot of demand for this, took up a lot of
my time going out to the counties and going out to other states and, you know, giving visual aid
presentations. Of course, this was going back to Hannah’s thought: sell agriculture, sell
agriculture research. Well, lot of people to sell agriculture research to. Got to sell it to the
people, got to sell it to the legislature, got to sell it to governor’s office, sell it to the national
level. So we spent a lot of time doing this, and I used new technologies to do it. Used the
dissolve unit. It was the first time they ever experienced a dissolve unit.
Charnley: With the slide dual.
Wittwer: Yes. Then, of course, the problem was getting help. We had a station photographer
by the name of Phil Coleman, and Phil Coleman was not doing very much. Of course, I put Phil
Coleman full-time making slides and as my assistant slide projectionist. Then we used these
dissolve units. And, of course, this was all very exciting to the people. They’d never seen this
before.
         George McIntyre tried to do the same thing but was not very effective. George couldn’t
imitate me. But we’d go out in the state, hold these county meetings, district meetings. I was
out speaking for Extension, as much as I was research. I said, “George, you ought to put me
half time on Extension. I’m selling your program.”


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Charnley: Or add it to your job description.
Wittwer: Well, anyway, George McIntyre was good. Then, of course, George retired. He
was replaced by Gordon Guyer. Gordon Guyer and I worked beautifully together. We
understood each other. We jointly went to budget hearings together. We met the legislature.
We’d meet with the legislators separately. Gordon Guyer, of course, was a public relations
man. But only I had the technique of speaking and using visuals. So, as I told Gordon, “I’m
half time on Extension. I ought to be in your office.” I presume you have talked to Gordon
Guyer.
Charnley: I have, I have, yes. I interviewed him and he talked about his research in
entomology.
Wittwer: We went to many meetings. Gordon was a great promoter, and a great promoter of
me as well as the programs, and still is, for that matter. Gordon is still a very close friend of
mine.
        So, where were we?
Charnley: We were talking about the changes that you brought in the Ag Experiment Station
as director and the new directions that you took.
Wittwer: The other thing was we had an association of West Central directors. They met two
or three times a year, three or four times a year, just going over the same old stuff all the time. I
said, “Look, why don’t we do something different in these meetings? Have each make a report
on what they’re doing that’s exciting.” Well, I got along that way for two or three years, and


                                                                                    22
they fell back to their old tracks. Finally, I sent my associate director to attend these meetings.
I couldn’t waste my time on them. I mean it was just the same old stuff, all these planning
meetings. Their planning is doing no good. It isn’t reaching the right people.
        One thing I found as director of the Experiment Station, I got involved on the national
level with the National Science Foundation, with the Department of Agriculture, with the
Department of Energy, with the USAID, with the World Bank, with the International
Agricultural Research Centers. Made contact with all of those and with NASA, with EPA
[Environmental Protection Agency], and with the Secretary of Agriculture and the assistant
secretaries, made those contacts.
        I got involved at the national level. I got involved with the National Research Council,
National Academy of Sciences, became chairman of the Board of Agriculture within the
National Research Council, which had much of its responsibility in setting national priorities
with National Science Foundation and the other national groups. I got involved with
international agricultural research conferences, three of them; namely, the one that was the
Agricultural Experiment Station in cooperation with George F. Kettering Foundation, with the
Department of Energy, with the Department of Agriculture, and with the National Science
Foundation, and then the U.S. Agency for International Development. With that group, we
sponsored an international conference on crop productivity in 1975 and again in 1985, "Crop
Productivity Research Imperatives." That was in 1975, and then ’85 was "Crop Research
Imperatives Revisited." Well, let’s see, I have one of them here.
Charnley:      For the tape, again, would you tell us, again, the title?
Wittwer: The "Crop Productivity Research Imperatives." That was the title in 1975, which I
no longer have a copy of the proceedings. This is "Crop Productivity Research Imperatives


                                                                                   23
Revisited," in 1985. I gave the short introduction for this, and then, of course, I was one of the
co-authors for the earlier one. I was the organizer for this.
Charnley: Where were those held?
Wittwer: They were held at Buena Jaras [phonetic] in Michigan, both of them.
Charnley: You had attendees from around the world?
Wittwer: All around the world. The list is in the back. We had a budget for it. We had a
budget also to publish 10,000 copies of this. That was part of the budget. Sponsored by
national agencies, Agency for International Development, the National Science Foundation, the
Department of Energy, the Department of Agriculture, Michigan Agriculture Experiment
Station, the George F. Kettering Foundation, and all these sponsors here from the private sector.
Charnley: And the complete list is in the back of the book. Was [M.] Peter McPherson head
of AID at that time, or not?
Wittwer: He was not. I can’t remember who it was. You’d have to check. He could have
been.
Charnley: I know he was right in the ’84, ’85 time frame.
Wittwer: Okay. He probably was. You check that out.


                                                                                24
Charnley: He perhaps didn’t attend this.
Wittwer: He certainly knew about it.
        In other words, I said, “Look, there’s many ways of determining research priorities.”
One is the international conference concept. The other is write up projects and proposals. But
we used the international conference option as a very good one.
Charnley: Did you have reception on campus to the ideas of the international aspect of the
research?
Wittwer: Well, of course, at that time, Ralph Smuckler was the director of International
Programs. Of course, he was preceded by Glen Taggart. We also had the support of the
university.
Charnley: Glen went to Utah State, I believe, didn’t he?
Wittwer: Yes. He was there as director of International Programs for probably ten or fifteen
years. So there was very definitely a very important input there. I was involved in the first. I
was a member of the first delegation that went to China. I got involved in many international
activities.
Charnley: How did you get asked to go to China originally?
Wittwer: How did I become a member of the first delegation? I think it was a
recommendation of probably the president. [M. Cecil] Mackey was the president then. I think


                                                                                  25
it was perhaps he. Dean [James] Anderson followed Boger. Of course, Dean Anderson was
there when Gordon Guyer was there and I was there. We were a great team.
Charnley: That was Jim Anderson?
Wittwer: James Anderson. Have you talked to him?
Charnley: I haven’t yet. He’s in North Carolina.
Wittwer: Is he still living?
Charnley: Yes.
Wittwer: Because my last correspondence with him was when his wife passed away a couple
of years ago.
Charnley: I haven’t contacted him by phone, but I do believe he’s still living.
        So Gordon Guyer was on that same mission, wasn’t he?
Wittwer: No.
Charnley: Okay. That was a different one that he went to.
Wittwer: He went on a special mission before that, one of the very first to get into China.
But, see, I was invited in 1980 in that first delegation. On that occasion, the Chinese took


                                                                                   26
special aptitude toward me, and they pulled me aside in the Ministry of Agriculture and
said--actually, what I did on that, I took slides with me about agricultural research. In the China
trip in 1980, there was students of mine that met me, students that had graduated in 1949 and
’50, doctoral students. Dr. Hu-Shen-Li [phonetic] and a doctor--someone from Shundu
[phonetic] in Szechwan University. What was his name? I could pull that out if I had an
opportunity to review this.
Charnley: We can add that.
Wittwer: When I was at Szechwan University, and at that time, Michigan State University
through Dr. Smuckler, who was the dean of International Programs there, the university wanted
to establish a special relationship with Szechwan University in the Szechwan province of
Shundu. I was there at Shundu, and this student knew of me. He said, “Would you give a
seminar to my biology class?” He was head of the biological department. What was his name?
 I had some slides. I took some slides with me. Slides go over.
Charnley: The photographs fit in with them.
Wittwer: Oh yes. I gave a seminar. “I want you to give a seminar to my class.” So I did.
God, the word got out. Chinese have ways of communicating I don’t know. "This guy gives
an interesting lecture."
         Before we left, see, we traveled a great deal of China on that trip. Up in Harbeing
[phonetic], which was capital of the Hibijong [phonetic] province, which was the headquarters of
the Northeast Agricultural University and the Hibijong [phonetic] Academy of Agricultural
Sciences, when we got there, there was Dean Cowden, Dean Anderson, and Larry. Who was


                                                                                   27
the chairman? I can’t remember his name. Somebody from the Department of Agricultural
Economics. He wanted to know something about the land-grant university. And a big crowd
gathered, both from the university and from the Hibijong Academy of Agricultural Science.
That’s the northeastern province of China, and it has a climate kind of comparable to Michigan.
That’s why we had a special relationship with them, you know.
         So they got together a big crowd of scientists and agricultural people. They first had
Dean Anderson speak a little bit about the land-grant system. Well, he took about ten minutes,
and the rest of the time was left up to me. I had the slides ready. I spent a lot of time talking
about agricultural research and research priorities, which is the main subject I talk about all the
time in Michigan and the various other places in the world.
Charnley: Were you using examples from Michigan Experiment Station or was it all around?
Wittwer: Oh, yes. No, mostly Michigan. Mostly Michigan.
Charnley: As a case study, more or less.
Wittwer: Well, selling Michigan’s agriculture. But anyway, they after that got very excited
after I gave that seminar talk. The Ministry of Agriculture people, Mr. Chin Ng Kong
[phonetic] and Hu Kong [phonetic], who was the Minister of Agriculture, pulled me aside and
said, “We want to make you the most knowledgeable American of Chinese agriculture that there
is. We want you to come back to China next year and bring your wife with you. If you will
give lectures for the first two weeks, when you come back for a month, then we’ll take you
anyplace you want to go in China for the remainder two weeks.”
         So, the next year we went back. Then after that, in the next year which followed, they


                                                                                28
did take us in to the far reaches. We’ve been in every province of China. I know China
probably better than any other American in terms of its agriculture. That’s why I wrote the
book.
        But we had a marvelous time. It was hot. We went into the three ovens of China at that
time, the hottest places on Earth, Wu Hong, Chun Ching, and Sat Nan Ching [phonetic]. But
they kept their word. Took a cruise down the Yangzhou River, saw the Three Gorges. They
gave us the best of accommodations, which weren’t very good, but they gave us the best. In
other words, if you ran a hotel in Chung Ching, we had the only air-conditioned room in the
hotel and they turned air-conditioning off at eleven o’clock. And it was hot.
        But then they invited us back. Then in about 1983 they decided, well, we ought to write
a book and they’d help me write it. So then we began to formulate, well, who would be the
authors. Well, it ended up, of course, the three authors were Wang Lang Zang [phonetic], who
was the outstanding soybean breeder in China and president of the Chinese Academy of
Agricultural Sciences. The other was Yo Yo Thai [phonetic], who was the president of
Northeast Agriculture University in Ar Bien [phonetic], who was an agricultural engineer. The
other author was Sun Han [phonetic], who was an agricultural economist at Nang Cheng
[phonetic] at the University of Changzhou [phonetic], Changzhou Academy of Agricultural
Sciences. We had our struggles, but we came up with a book that is now a collector’s item.
Charnley: Did MSU Press publish that?
Wittwer: Yes. Which was unfortunate, because MSU Press had no marketing capability.
Charnley: The title was, for the record?


                                                                                    29
Wittwer: Feeding a Billion. At that time there was a billion people in China. Now there’s a
billion and a quarter.
Charnley: In just that fifteen years. What was the thesis of it?
Wittwer: The unique things about Chinese agriculture that enables them, with 7 percent of the
arable land in the world, to produce enough food for 22 percent of the people, and we go into
item after item, crop after crop, practice after practice.
Charnley: What are some of those essentials that you discovered?
Wittwer: Well, there’s been several reviews written of the book. One was in Time magazine
for a full page. Another was in for the February review. What were some of the points? Well,
the use of resource utilization. No resources are wasted. All human waste, all animal waste, all
resources are utilized. Also that 50 percent of the land they have is irrigated, which increases
the 12 percent of the land that’s irrigated in the world produces over a third of the food. They
have more irrigated land than any nation on Earth.
         Also they have very good genetic improvement of crops. They have produced hybrid
rice. Hybrid rice is the number-one food crop of the world, number-one food crop in China, and
it’s the most important crop in China. Hybrid rice results in a 30 to 40 percent increase in yield.
 They do it by very unique and fascinating techniques.
         The other, of course, is in the production of pigs. They produce more pigs than any
country on Earth. More chickens. But they utilize waste materials that we don’t usually
utilize. And fish, all kinds of fish.


                                                                                  30
Charnley: Aquaculture.
Wittwer: Aquaculture, highly developed, and lots of it. Soybeans, they have the genetic
resources of the world. They have all the genetic resources of the soybean.
Charnley: When you got there, you probably went with some conception of Chinese
agriculture. What things surprised you?
Wittwer: Well, the high intensity, the labor intensity of high production agriculture.
Labor-intensive, high production. Instead of growing bush beans, they’d clean them up, utilize
more energy from the sun. Just little things. It’s not one thing; it’s many things. I go crop by
crop. I go practice by practice. I point these out in the book. It’s the only book in the English
language now published which describes Chinese agriculture.
Charnley: That’s interesting.
Wittwer: The interesting thing is it’s a joint product of mine and theirs. I had to rewrite the
whole book. I had to rewrite the chapters they wrote, which means I had to learn to become
familiar with all of it. Of course, one of the reviewers pointed that out. He said, “This is by
different authors, but there’s a common style in there that extends out in the book.” That’s my
style. He was very sharp to notice that. But it’s true.
Charnley: The cooperative nature of the writing of the book, was that--
Wittwer: Well, that came up, what about the controversial issues. What are we going to do


                                                                                  31
with Taiwan? What about the South Sea Islands that are claimed by--and I had to be very
careful. They finally said, “In the case of conflict, you make the final decision.” They told me,
“In the case of differences, you make the final decision.” They were very cooperative.
Charnley: I was reading a newspaper clipping that was in the MSU Archives, and it talked
about when you went back again, there were some problems because of the political unrest.
Wittwer: I was there. You see, I was invited back repeatedly to go and give talks and to visit
other provinces and areas and take photographs. I had unlimited use of photography.
[unclear], if anything. I went back and it was in 1989, I believe, in June, if my recollection is
correct, I was invited back. This was during the [unclear]. I was invited back and Maureen
was with me. During my later years at Michigan State, I said, “Anyplace I’m going
international, the wife goes with me. If my wife doesn’t go, I don’t go.”
Charnley: Good strategy.
Wittwer: I had more than I can handle, so why not? But anyway, we were there and it was at
the time of the release of Feeding a Billion. It had published and released in 1987, but then they
decided they wanted a Chinese edition of it. Michigan State University Press. [Richard]
Chapin was the director at the time. I had my problems with Chapin, big problems.
Charnley: In the publishing of the book?
Wittwer: Yes. He didn’t put the map in here that gave all the details of the cities and
provinces and so on. But let’s not talk about that. Let’s forget about that.


                                                                                     32
          But we were back and they decided they wanted to have--and I don’t have a copy of the--
[Begin Tape 2, Side 2]
Wittwer: ...and they met us there. Of course, they treated us red carpet every place we went.
When we flew, we flew first class. They took care of everything. We met in Shanghai and
went to Nanjing, and there they had the sixtieth anniversary of the Chungzhou Academy of
Agricultural Sciences. I was the [unclear] who spoke there. That was in June or late May of
1989. From there we went to Shandu in Szechwan province to make--Lu Ping [phonetic] was
the former student that gave the first seminar in China. Zu Chin Lee [phonetic] was at Zhe
Chung [phonetic] Agriculture University in Zhe Chung province.
          Then we went from Shandu we went down to Kung Ming [phonetic], which is a Hu Nong
province next to the Vietnam border. Yung Kung Ming [phonetic] is the city of eternal spring
and we were treated royally. I mean, they took us wherever we wanted to go. I mean to the
Stone Forest. We had a great time. Maureen was with me.
          Then we were next scheduled to go back to Beijing and then on to Harbin where they
would release the Chinese edition. Well, we got in Kung Ming in Hu Nong province and we
left, I think it was--I’ll tell you what day of the week it was, I think it was Sunday morning.
Let’s see. The Tiananmen Square debacle occurred, I think, on Friday evening, Saturday, kind
of ended up on Sunday in Tiananmen Square with the crackdown.
          Well, when we boarded the plane in Kung Ming to go to Beijing, there was scarcely
anybody on the plane. I said, “This never happened before. The Chinese Airlines, every seat is
occupied. What’s going on?” No idea what. Got in Beijing, had Army encampments all
around the airport. Soldiers. We got there and things looked a little strange. People that were
there to meet us, but we’d never seen them before. It wasn’t any of my friends. At least I


                                                                                 33
didn’t know them. But they knew us.
        We got in the car, and they take us to what they call the Friendship Hotel in the western
part of Beijing. On the route, en route, we saw burned-out buses, burned-out tanks, Army tanks,
soldiers pulling Army trucks by hand out of the city, demolished. Then we got a little further in
and got in the roadblocks. Almost got hemmed in. Drivers were getting worried.
Charnley: And your wife was with you?
Wittwer: Oh, yes. She had a video camera with her. I said, “Maureen, don’t, don’t, don’t,
don’t use it. We might not get out of here.”
Charnley: Sounds like good advice.
Wittwer: We did get a video camera shot, though, beautiful, of the student demonstrations in
Shanghai. We have it vividly shown in a video. Beautiful. We were parked there, and this
happened all at once. We happened to be right where they do, when the parade was right
alongside. She photographed everything, the demonstrators with their banners.
Charnley: You were able to do that.
Wittwer: Well, nobody really knew we had it. We just kept it. I think the Chinese would
love to have it because they could identify some of the people. But we haven’t passed that on.
        But, anyway, when we got to Beijing, we finally got back to the hotel, and things were
pretty rough there. They got us a place to stay there. Friendship Hotel was sort of the complex.
 By this time we knew something had happened. We didn’t know what, but we figured that


                                                                                   34
there’d been some crackdown. I didn’t know how long we were going to be in the hotel, so I
went out to the market and I was going to buy a little fruit and vegetables, but there wasn’t very
much there.
        Went back to the hotel, and I got a telephone call. There’s a Mr. Chi Ng Kong
[phonetic]. He says, “Are you okay?” I said yes. He said, “Don’t leave the hotel.” I said,
“Why not?” He says, “You’ll get shot.” So we were in that hotel for three days. Finally, the
vice minister got the other little group. We had kind of a little farewell banquet.
        The next day he arranged for and accompanied us directly to the airport. I’ve never seen
such bedlam in my life in an airport, everybody trying to get out. My god, you couldn’t go
anyplace. But with him there as the vice minister, he finally took us through and got us to the
departure gate and we left.
        There was never an occasion [unclear] of the book. I don’t even have a copy of the
Chinese edition. Now, I think I left those copies at the University of Utah.
        But in the meantime, contact had been made with the Japanese through my friend Mr.
Shou. Shou Ng Kong [phonetic] had called the Japanese, told them we’d be coming to Tokyo
and they were to meet us. The reason for that was that I had made a previous arrangement to
meet with about three or four Japanese professors in the language department in the University
of Tokyo to go over their translation of the Feeding a Billion and to have it in Japanese. So we
spent about three or four days with the Japanese going over, answering the questions they asked
me about the book and their translation. This is the product of the Japanese.
Charnley: This is the Japanese translation?
Wittwer: Now, how many copies of that were ever published? The price, I think, was
atrocious. I think maybe 60 or 70 dollars, but I heard nothing. Didn’t ask about any royalties


                                                                                35
or anything. But the Chinese did a wonderful job. The reproductions are beautiful.
Charnley: The Japanese?
Wittwer: The Japanese. They put all the photographs at the front. They did a tremendous
job.
Charnley: Did you take a lot of those photos yourself?
Wittwer: I took them all.
Charnley: Oh, you did?
Wittwer: I didn’t have anybody to take along as a photographer.
Charnley: Did you end up when you came back from your visits and your work on the book,
did you have American audiences?
Wittwer: Oh, yes. Oh, yes.
Charnley: Where did you speak?
Wittwer: Well, all over the world. I spoke in Mexico, in every state in the nation. I have
given talks in every state in the United States. In some states such as Michigan, Illinois, Florida,
Texas, California, Arizona, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, Utah, and Washington, and New


                                                                                    36
Jersey, I’ve given talks several times. Alaska, I’ve given talks several times. Hawaii, I’ve
given talks several times. Now, they weren’t all on China, but they were slide presentations.
        I was in Tokyo in 1983 in September to speak at the Second World Conference on
Animal Agriculture. At the hotel there, it was absolutely packed. We had the projector. I had
Larry Marshall there. Larry Marshall is a very interesting person. I don’t know if he’s still
around or not. But he was my projectionist for the last three or four years I was there. He was
very good. We really loved the program with music and all with the introduction and with three
projectors.
Charnley: With the light dissolve.
Wittwer: Oh, yes.       Beautiful effects. But at the International Conference on Agriculture in
Tokyo, that place was packed. And the thing I did not anticipate, the Japanese were there with
their cameras and that screen would just light up with flashbulbs. I didn’t expect that. Every
picture [unclear].
Charnley: They were stealing your photographs. [Laughter]
Wittwer: I didn’t expect that. I’ve had some interesting experiences, especially in some of the
presentations and going to some institutions. Minnesota, for example, and with some of the
large groups, I gave the specific requirements of the equipment I wanted, the projectors I needed,
and also an experienced projectionist. It never happened, anyplace. It never happened.
        I finally decided from now on--and this was two or three years before I quit giving those
speeches--I’m not going to accept an assignment without taking my own equipment and my own
projectionist. I did that for the last three or four years, but I almost had some disasters. In


                                                                                 37
Minnesota, the guy showed up five minutes before I was to speak and then dumped all my slides.
 I said, “Just put them in any way you want to. I’ll speak it according to what you put down.”
Charnley: You let serendipity set the program.
Wittwer: And that’s all through my history on it.
Charnley: Did you speak in the Soviet Union?
Wittwer: Yes, I’ve been there three times.
Charnley: What were those circumstances?
Wittwer: In 1985, all during the Cold War. In 1985 I was invited especially. I was one of
two foreign members of the [unclear] and Union Academy of Agricultural Scientists, one of two
Americans ever elected to that society.
Charnley: Who was the other one?
Wittwer: It was a fellow from Illinois, a professor from Illinois. He’s now deceased. A plant
breeder.
Charnley: How was it that you think you first were invited?
Wittwer: What happened there was that I went there, the first thing that happened was there


                                                                                   38
was a fellow by the name of Yuri Mortinoff [phonetic], who was an agricultural engineer, came
to Michigan State University as an invited guest from the Soviet Union along in about 1969 or
’70. I took Yuri Mortinoff, although he was invited by the agricultural engineers, but as director
of the Experiment Station, I took him around Michigan. I showed him some things about
Michigan agriculture. That was the first contact. Then I told Yuri, I said, “If I come to USSR,”
it was then the Cold War, I said, “I would like you to do the same for me about Soviet
agriculture.”
        Well, we went with the people in People’s Tour there in 1972. This was a group from
Michigan, Michigan agricultural people. It was recognized by someone in agricultural
economics. What was his name? John--his name slips my mind. But, anyway, when we were
there, we made contact with Yuri Mortinoff. He was director of a large research unit having to
do with medicinal plants. In China and in Russia they spent a great deal of effort in [unclear],
medicinal plants, growing them for medicinal purposes. That was Yuri’s position.
        So when he met us, we were there for two or three days with the tour group, People to
People Tour. Yuri said one day, he said, “Tonight I’m coming to see you and Mrs. Wittwer.
We see Moscow by night.” And we did.
        But in the process, as we were in the one of the streets there, a whistle was blown. The
police in USSR use whistles, not guns. Blowing your whistle, you stopped. Yuri stopped and
explained, I guess, who was with him and what he was doing.
        He said, “Next day I take you to the ancient city of Zorgorsk [phonetic].” Zorgorsk is
the ancient cathedral city. It’s about ninety miles north of Moscow. Now very few people
have been in Zorgorsk, but they have the most beautiful cathedrals there that I’ve ever seen. So,
sure enough, Yuri came along with his car and we departed for Zorgorsk.
        Meanwhile, I take my camera along. I see many things to take a photograph. I see a
very large powerplant with greenhouses attached, and I take a picture of that. In the Soviet


                                                                                   39
Union, instead of having lawns, they grow potatoes in their front yard, and that was interesting.
I took a photograph of that and many other pictures. I went to Zorgorsk and took pictures of the
other cathedrals. There were many tour buses there. Maureen, my wife, was with me, and, she
said, “Oh, look at all the tour buses.” I said, “Yes. There’s not a one from the United States.
Those are all the Russian tour buses.”
         Well, on the way back, we were stopped at one of the checkpoints. The policeman blew
his whistle, and Yuri gets out and talks to them, and after a long time comes back. You know,
we were sitting in the car. He says, “They want documents.” I says, “Yuri, all our documents
are at the hotel. We have no documents.” [unclear]. We were out where we shouldn’t be.
Charnley: You thought your stay might be a little longer than you anticipated.
Wittwer: But, anyway, my wife can verify all of this, you know. Then he comes back and I
said, “Yuri, is everything okay?” Well, he says, “Yeah, but he says strange kind of tourist I’ve
got with me.” Taking pictures of all the things that we’d taken pictures of. He said, “More
pictures?” I said, “No, Yuri, get back to Moscow.”
         Well, we’ve been back to Moscow four times since then, but we’ve never seen Yuri.
We’ve called him. He knows we’ve been there, but we’ve never been able to make contact.
         Well, the last time I was there was in 1985, which was still during the Cold War. See,
the wall didn’t go down until ’89. I was invited back. This was the second or third time.
         Well, in the meantime, I had this People to People Tour, and then I’d become involved
through my friend Tom Malone, who was president of a university in Indianapolis, Butler
University. Tom gets acquainted with me at the national meetings of the National Research
Council, National Academy of Sciences, and the Commission on Natural Resources, which John
Cannon [phonetic] was also a member. I, being chairman of the Board of Agriculture, I met


                                                                                  40
with the Environmental Resources Group. That’s why John and I always canceled out each
other. He was an environmentalist.
Charnley: You came at it from different angles.
Wittwer: Exactly. [unclear] interesting way. But, anyway, I got involved with that group.
Tom Malone one time called me up. It was on a Thursday. He said, “Sylvan, there’s an
important meeting in Washington I want you to attend, having to do with the Dartmouth
conferences.” I had no idea what the Dartmouth conferences were. He said, “I know it’s a
Saturday. It’s an imposition to ask you to be there, but could you come?”
        So I went. That’s where I got into a real conflict with another environmentalist, George
Woodwell [phonetic], at that meeting. I was really on the defensive. But there was one little
fellow in the back there, in the audience, who came to my defense. I had no idea who it was.
        So I asked Tom Malone, I said, “Who was that fellow back there that was my friend,”
which was John Color [phonetic], president of the Charles F. Kettering Foundation, Yellow
Springs, Ohio. So I sat down and wrote John Color a letter and thanked him. I said, “I
appreciate your comment.” Well, he wrote back. He said, “Would you come down to
Kettering? We want you to give a seminar.”
        So we went down to Kettering, at invitation, and there I met Marvin Lomberg [phonetic].
 The other had people in the research division there at Yellow Springs, Ohio. Charles F.
Kettering wanted to know what the little green [unclear] were that made plants grow. Well,
Marvin Lomberg then comes back to the Dartmouth conferences. Bob [John?] Color was one of
the prime promoters of the Dartmouth conferences. The Dartmouth conferences were set up as
sort of a pugwash group to alleviate détente with the Soviet Union, U.S. versus--nonofficial
scientists getting together to see if we couldn’t alleviate some of the tensions.


                                                                                    41
        Well, Bob Color was a member of the Dartmouth conference. Tom Malone was a
member of the Dartmouth conferences. Norman Cousins, editor of the--oh, what is it, not The
Saturday Evening Post--was a member. David Rockefeller, president of the Chase Manhattan
Bank, a member of the Dartmouth conferences. Well, as a result of this, I got invited to
participate in the Dartmouth conferences. The Dartmouth conferences were held in the Soviet
Union one year, the United States the next year, alternating.
        So in 1975, I was invited to go to Moscow to attend the conferences, along with these
others. The next year it was in old colonial Williamsburg. Well, in Yurma, in Latvia, I was
there. The Soviets were there. Well, who were the Soviets? Well, there was George Zucoff
[phonetic], who was member of the Supreme Soviet. There was George Orbortoff [phonetic],
who was president of a fictional institution that operated in Canada and the United States. It
was a chief spy, really, of the Soviets in the United States. There was Boris Unoff [phonetic],
Minister of Agriculture, and some other very notable people.
        We were there, and I happened to be there. Then they informed me in one of these
meetings that I was to be elected as a foreign member of their academy and that I was to be part
of the Soviet Embassy in Washington and to receive the recognition at the embassy, which I did,
along with my wife. So we had kind of the red carpet laid out for us from then on.
        I’m not sure what year it was, it was the fiftieth anniversary of the establishment of the
A.I. Lenin Hall Union Academy of Agricultural Sciences. Vashneil [phonetic], they called it.
So I was invited to come to Moscow, and it was in December, 1975, 1976, I’m not sure, as an
invited member of that as a foreign member of that academy.
        I was met at the airport, given the red carpet treatment, taken through Customs, and
invited to attend the Honor of the Red Flag or something, which was held in the presidium, the
big convention hall there on Red Square. I was introduced immediately to my interpreter, who
was Nina Bogdonova [phonetic]. Nina Bogdonova was the chief librarian of the University of


                                                                                 42
Moscow libraries. She was a soldier in the Second World War and met the Americans at the
Yelbe. She was an interpreter. She knew English.
        Well, anyway, I was in the company of Nina Bogdonova to look after me, take me to the
circuses and the ballets or whatever they have there, which you went to all of them, and to be my
constant companion and interpreter and translator. So we attended the big meeting, which was
held there in Moscow.
        Mikhail Gorbachev was the Minister of Agriculture at that time, and he was a very
powerful speaker. I remember that. I was introduced to him personally. I was the only
American that was there and the only one who was not a member of the so-called socialist group.
 I mean, there were representatives from Poland, Vietnam, Siberia, Cuba, you know, the whole
Yugoslavia.
Charnley: And you were the only American.
Wittwer: The only American, and the only one who was from a non-communist controlled
unit. Then they said they wanted me to speak. I says, “Well, what about, and how long?”
They said, “As you wish.” [Laughter] That’s a true story.
Charnley: So how long did you speak?
Wittwer: Well, I have a picture of myself in my history, speaking to Nina Bogdonova at my
side to interpret what I said. I can’t remember, but I had with me a copy of the proceedings of
the First International Agricultural Conference on Crop Productivity. I had a copy of another
book that I was co-author of, which I don’t have. I think I gave them a copy of the
Common____ Lecture that I gave in India. I mentioned that the others were, of course, I think


                                                                                   43
the one from Vietnam was a picture of Ho Chi Minh, portrait, you know, that kind of stuff. But
I personally handed to Gorbachev my books.
        I didn’t know really at the time, but when I went back in 1985, they said to me, the
Soviets, that’s the last time I was there, because the Academy of Agricultural Sciences no longer
exists. It’s out.
Charnley: You say you met Gorbachev later?
Wittwer: Only that time. Only in 1975, actually, when he was the Minister of Agriculture.
But, anyway, when I went back, they said, “We don’t know whether you knew it or not, but
when you were here, you met Gorbachev.” [Laughter]
Charnley: What was it about your research, do you think, that maybe brought about the initial
invitation?
Wittwer: Of course, I had a knowledge somewhat of China at that time, too, and I had a pretty
good knowledge of research priorities of the United States. I had a pretty good knowledge of
the world. See, in the meantime I had traveled to the International Agriculture Research
Centers. I had been in India three or four times. I’d been in Egypt, I’d been in Ethiopia, at the
International Agriculture Research Centers in the Philippines, in Mexico City, in Ethiopia, in
Kenya, in Nigeria, and, let’s see, the rice center, the wheat center. I had been there, see. I
knew what was going on in agriculture research. I knew agriculture research and I knew
research priorities.
Charnley: Would you talk a little bit about, not just your travels, but the world recognition of


                                                                                   44
Michigan State? Did you have to tell people about it, or did they recognize the university for its
research in agriculture or in other areas? Could you talk a little bit about that?
Wittwer: Michigan State University, of course, is well known as far as its agricultural
contributions are concerned. Michigan State University was forward as a university dealing
with international programs through the efforts of Glen Taggart and Ralph Smuckler. Is Ralph
still around?
Charnley: Yes, I interviewed him at the end of September of this year.
Wittwer: Glen Taggart’s dead.
         Through John Hannah, Michigan State University was known worldwide and certainly,
to some extent, its agriculture. Michigan has very diversified agriculture. I guess you knew
that. Its leadership in agricultural economics and in agricultural engineering and horticulture, in
the crops area, is well known. I mean, the first hybrid corn was pretty much a result of efforts of
Michigan State University, John [William James] Beal. I don’t know if that’s right or not.
Beal is the last name. The longevity of weed seeds, which I think is still under way, there are
some things that--
Charnley: Yes, they kept those. They just opened some up, I think, recently in the last year or
so.
Wittwer: But horticulturally, Michigan State University is known worldwide. Tukey was the
president of the National Horticultural Society, for example. But I would say it was, the
international dimension was really initiated by John Hannah that put Michigan State on the map


                                                                                    45
with respect to with the International Agricultural Research Centers. McPherson, of course,
himself with the USAID program and aid, U.S. aid in terms of agricultural development, has
always been a key mover as far as Michigan State is concerned. I don’t know of any other
university that is more prominently known for its international efforts than Michigan State.
Charnley: So when you would go overseas--
Wittwer: Oh, I had contacts. These were university contacts.
[Begin Tape 2, Side 2]
Wittwer: Then the other thing that was of interest was that we had many students that come to
Michigan State University sponsored by NATO, for example. And the foundations, the
Rockefeller, Ford Foundations are very prominent with the U.S.; of course, they’re U.S.
foundations. I had a very close relationship with those foundations.
Charnley: Where they brought overseas scholars to study at Michigan State.
Wittwer: Yes. And the efforts of our faculty. We just had programs in almost every--like
work in Nigeria, for example, we did way back with Glen Taggart.
Charnley: That was prior to the revolution there?
Wittwer: Yes. But I think that Michigan State University should be commended in terms of
its international efforts very early. It was really the leader in the United States and still is, which


                                                                                    46
we could be criticized for, but I think it’s advantageous overall for the university.
Charnley: Could you talk a little bit about some of your own experiences on campus, what
changes that you saw, especially in the College of Ag and Natural Resources with the different
deans, James Anderson you mentioned, and some of the others? Was there a change in the
1970s after Dr. Hannah left and went to AID and when Clifton Wharton came on?
Wittwer: Clifton Wharton carried on very much in the footsteps of Hannah in terms of local
campus developments and also on the international programs. Clifton Wharton, I think, was
really a great asset to the university. He did not depart from its missions.
Charnley: His background in ag economics probably affected this.
Wittwer: Up until that time, we had people heading the university that had a good agricultural
background. I mean, you take Hannah, and especially the deans. Michigan State University, of
course, has diversified much since I left and during the time I was there. But I think the thing
that really happened when I was involved there was that getting increased support for the
programs and increased coordination with the Extension and teaching and research and looking
at alternative methods of funding, getting federal support, and international support for research
projects as well as state, and identifying the people, working with the people that really make the
decisions.
Charnley: In Washington and elsewhere?
Wittwer: Yes, yes. Jack Breslin did a good job--of course, he can’t be interviewed now--in


                                                                                   47
terms of relationships in Washington.
Charnley: Would you talk a little bit about that, about Jack Breslin’s efforts?
Wittwer: Well, he knew the Washington arena, he knew the Washington people, he knew the
people that represented us in Congress and he knew their aides. Gordon Guyer did a good job in
that.
Charnley: So the legislative liaison worked quite well.
Wittwer: Yes. And, of course, this did not exist fully until I think Gordon and I got involved,
and Boger and, of course, Hannah loved it, what we were doing, fully supportive. But in our
close working relationships with the legislature, with the executive office, the governor’s office,
and taking them out on tours, exposing them to the results of research and the results of
extension, educational programs, in other words, giving them personal contact, this was not done
before that, taking time to inform them, as well as just ask them for money. Then, of course,
communicating back the results that what we were doing. It was a great experience for me. I
loved it. I guess I was criticized in a sense because I was gone so much.
Charnley: Really?
Wittwer: I know I was. But on the other hand, I had good lieutenants.
Charnley: Who were they?


                                                                               48
Wittwer: Jake Hoefer, who is now deceased. John Bartholic [phonetic]. Don’t know
whether he’s around or not now. I don’t know. Richard Sower [phonetic], Dick Sower,
excellent man. Those are the people I worked with. And someone like Larry Marshall, who
helped me with visual aids and speaking engagements.
Charnley: Was he under College of Ag and Natural Resources?
Wittwer: Information Services. We did have good people like Joe Marx [phonetic]. Joe's
dead now. He went to the University of Missouri. Joe was a good information specialist. We
had good people at the information level, and we had some conflicts sometimes, but we usually
straightened them out.
Charnley: Did you have any dealings directly with the board, board of trustees of the
university?
Wittwer: They were very supportive. I knew them personally. They knew what was going
on in agricultural research and Extension. Yes, I had good contact with the board of trustees.
Charnley: Were there any board members that were particularly supportive of the programs or
in the course of your experiences with them?
Wittwer: Name some of them. I can’t remember. Well, let’s see, one of the recent ones
was--do you know any of them now?
Charnley: Well, Dean Pridgeon was for a while.


                                                                               49
Wittwer: Well, Dean Pridgeon. Dean Pridgeon was also at the Farm Bureau. We had
excellent relationship with the Farm Bureau in Elton Smith. With the American Farm Bureau
Federation I spoke many times. We always dealt with them in terms of our budget priorities. I
received the highest recognition from the Farm Bureau Federation, the only one in the academic
field to ever receive the award, a special presentation. The Farm Bureau, we worked with, and
Elton Smith, who was president, and Dean Pridgeon, of course, was involved there with the
Michigan Department of Agriculture. That’s two important men.
         People like--I can’t remember their names. Michigan bill producers, who are they?
Charnley: I don’t remember the name of all the listing of the trustees. But they were
generally supportive of the Ag Experiment Station?
Wittwer: Oh, yes, and they were informed. The Michigan Department of Agriculture, we
worked with them, which I think is important. I knew them all. They knew what was going on
in the Experiment Station. We had many sessions where we invited the entire legislature out to
see what we were doing.
Charnley: How long did you direct the Ag Experiment Station?
Wittwer: Twenty years.
Charnley: In that time, what were maybe some of the most important things that developed as
a result?


                                                                                  50
Wittwer: Well, of course, an increase in support of agricultural research by severalfold in
terms of budget. Introduction of a competitive draft program within the Experiment Station,
which we initiated.
Charnley: Does that continue today?
Wittwer: I don’t know.
Charnley: I'll have to ask the current director.
Wittwer: This was a stimulus internally. We had our own reviews. I wrote them down here.
If I open that book, we can check them out. It’s probably interesting. Let me check them out
here.
Charnley: Sure. We’ll pause here. [Pause]
Wittwer: [Reading from documentation] "As new director of Agriculture Experiment Station
and after my first few months in the office, there was a general reaction about the university and
throughout Michigan and the nation that new dimensions would be encompassed. I have tried
in the intervening years to meet this responsibility and expectation. In other words, I tried to be
the very best state Agriculture Experiment Station director Michigan had known and the best in
the nation. Time would yet reveal the outcome of this goal.
        "Some of the innovations I introduced as director include widespread coverage of the
state and nation and international in giving slide presentations and talks concerning the
accomplishments and the opportunities in research on campus, off campus, nationally and


                                                                                     51
internationally. These presentations have numbered up to five or six a week to ten to thirty a
month and literally hundreds, perhaps thousands, during the eighteen years I served as director."
I said twenty; it’s eighteen.
         "A listing of the publishing and scientific achievements of the Michigan Agriculture--"
This is one of the first things I did. "A listing and publishing of the scientific achievements of
the Michigan Agriculture Experiment Station in 1968, 1973, and 1979. Those are on the record
someplace in Michigan State.
         "The establishment of a remote-sensing program on the campus and close linkages with,
first, the University of Michigan’s well-run laboratories, which later became and is now the
Environmental Research Institute of Michigan. Principal contacts in bringing this about were
and remain longtime friends A.G. Norman, Mike Holder, George Brown, and Dick Lego
[phonetic].
         "Fourth, establishing the administrative structure and control of the Pesticide Research
Center and hiring Dr. Fumio Matsumora [phonetic].
         "Five, establishing linkages and administrative input into the Institute of Water Research,
the Kellogg Biological Station and the DOE, Department of Energy, Plant Research
Laboratories.
         "Seven, initiating in the Experiment Station many competitive grant programs of over
500,000 annually.
         "Eight, establishing a firm base for toxicology research on the campus with the major
input for the creation of an Environmental Toxicology Center. The state legislature wanted it to
be run by the Agriculture Experiment Station. The Agriculture Experiment Station coordinator
for toxicology was Steve Ost [phonetic] of biochemistry." There’s a young man you might want
to see.
         "Establishment of a joint research program with the dean of the College of Veterinary


                                                                                   52
Medicine.
        "Initiating major interdisciplinary resource inputs into energy research in the home
program in the College of Human Ecology.
        "Acquiring and developing the Trevor Nichols Dunn van Drack [phonetic] Kalamazoo
Orchard Research facilities, the Montcom [phonetics] experimental farm and the new
horticulture research station at Clarksville. In the northwest, Michigan Horticulture Research
Station in the Sutton Bay area.
        "The acquisition of 3,500,000 dollars in some twenty-two line items in the Agriculture
Experiment Station budget and the establishment of some fifteen commodity-based research
programs.        "Establishing a coordinated agricultural, genetics, and plant-breeding program for
research and graduate training with the plant research laboratories, with Dr. Kenneth Sink
[phonetic] as the first coordinator."
Charnley: Quite a list of accomplishments. You raise some issues. Some of the
experimental stations that were there, were they bequests to the university or how were you
involved in those?
Wittwer: Usually bequests, not always. Some were bequests that were initiated by the
growers, the producers. In fact, they all were. That’s the origin of the station, actually.
Charnley: What about the Pesticide Research Center? You were director during the PBB
incident. Could you talk a little about that, how you first heard about it, and how MSU was
involved in that?
Wittwer: Well, we were jointly involved, of course, with the Cooperative Extension Service.


                                                                                    53
We heard about it first through the Department of Agriculture, Michigan Department of
Agriculture. It was a special request by letter for us to initiate, design research programs and
educational programs dealing with the issue.
        Of course, this involved the Pesticide Research Center and Toxicology Center, all of
which, Pesticide Research Center is part of the Experiment Station. Toxicology Center is part
of the Experiment Station. These were initiated by the Experiment Station.
Charnley: How did the incident play out? Were you involved with public relations with that?
Wittwer: Definitely. And, of course, the burial sites and so on. This was quite a serious
problem. Yes, we were definitely involved, as far as the research components were concerned,
and also informing the public.
Charnley: What were some of the tough issues, or the issues that you had to deal with at that
time?
Wittwer: Well, of course, one of them was identifying the residues that were harmful and what
to do with the animals and how you’d reimburse the people. I’m trying to recall the details of
how this all got started. Was it the feed?
Charnley: It was a feed mistake in the feed mixture, where the fire retardant was mixed in the
St. Louis, Michigan, plant, Hooker Chemical. I knew a little bit about it from a family
experience.
Wittwer: We were definitely involved, and we were at the front in working on that trying to


                                                                                  54
resolve it. Our people were definitely involved in the Experiment Station.
Charnley: Was the Pesticide Research Center established after that, or had that been existing?
Wittwer: It existed then, but the Toxicology Center wasn’t. This was the stimulus, catalyst
for the establishment of the Toxicology Center. The Pesticide Center of Research existed then,
but not to deal specifically with a problem of that magnitude. That was more than just a
toxicology center.
Charnley: Were you involved in any of that direct research?
Wittwer: The Station was, yes. Steve Ost, definitely, because he was director of the
toxicology. He was in biochemistry. Of course we were supporting research and biochemistry.
Charnley: What about later in your career and in terms of your position at the university?
When did you leave the Ag Experiment Station?
Wittwer: In June of 1983. Bob [Robert G.] Gast was the one that came in. As a result, I was,
of course, heavily involved. It was in 1987, you see, that we published the book on China. I
was heavily involved with the Chinese, the international program then. What happened was that
the university thought it would be desirable if I stayed on, so I moved from the office in the
Experiment Station down to a little office in the Extension area with Adger Carroll. Is Adger
Carroll still living?
Charnley: I’m not sure.


                                                                                  55
Wittwer: I had a little office and I was given a secretary. I just carried on the international
activities tremendously after that, actually until 1987, when I took an assignment to Belize in
Central America for two years. I had a secretary and an office space there from 1983 until
1987, which was generously and graciously provided by the College of Agriculture, dean of
College of Agriculture.
Charnley: When did you ultimately retire?
Wittwer: From the Station in 1983. June of ’83.
Charnley: Were you teaching at all after that?
Wittwer: No. Only giving lectures.
Charnley: Would you talk a little bit about your attitude toward teaching?
Wittwer: My attitude toward teaching. I love to teach. I was half-time teaching at the
Department of Horticulture, half-time teaching, half-time research. I had some enjoyable
classes with many students that--I had a student that, let me see, this would be of interest. The
students that I had, I really enjoyed teaching. Sometimes I felt it detracted from doing research,
which I also enjoyed. But you can’t have everything all the time. Let’s see if I can find this.
Charnley: I’ll pause. [Pause]


                                                                                  56
Charnley: We’re talking about former students that you’ve had and your attitude toward
teaching and people that had been an important influence. You mentioned Elmer Graff.
Wittwer: Yes, in vocational agriculture.
Charnley: The first one.
Wittwer: Of course, people like H.B. Tukey and Bob Carolus and so on, and many others.
        Here’s one here from Victor Alamos Montero [phonetic], gives an e-mail address, and
addressed to me, dated October 25th, the year 2000. He says, “Dear Dr. Wittwer, It’s almost
impossible you may remember my name. I am Victor Alamos, and I was a grad student from
Chile at MSU back in 1958-’59. Recently I wrote a book, Student Life at MSU, in which I
decided to dedicate a chapter to John Carew, my mentor. In the last pages, I couldn’t forget my
unforgettable professor of horticulture, as you are also mentioned. I am mailing you by courier
what could be an almost final draft, humbly asking if there’s any objection from your end. It
should be there the first days of November. Paul Larson gave me your e-mail, and he suggested
an epilogue should be considered. I am now writing it. He discovered all those tricky
misspellings. Do excuse me. Although I was there in the late fifties, the story takes place in
the very late eighties and early nineties as the names had to be somewhat disguised except yours.
 If by any chance you want to make a comment, it will be very, very welcome. Be strict,
though.”
        And this is what Victor Alamos says, “But the last, but not least, the environment of
Michigan State, keep me posted about your thesis and give my personal regards to Dr. Sylvan
Wittwer. I loved his classes. Ask if he remembers when he taught us how seeds of seedless
watermelons are grown.” And the letter goes on.


                                                                               57
Charnley: So that you’ve been discovered on your e-mail address. You've had contacts.
Wittwer: Yes, that’s true. I’ve been discovered.
Charnley: Since your retirement from the university, have you had any other contacts or any
formal contacts with the university?
Wittwer: Well, each year I’ve been going back to Michigan State in October to see the color of
the leaves. We don’t have them in Logandale, Nevada. In Michigan, and there make a
reacquaintance with many of the people.
Charnley: Did any of your children stay there?
Wittwer: My children are to the four winds of the Earth. One lives in Atlanta, Georgia, with
her family. The other lives in St. Louis, Missouri. Another lives in Salt Lake City. Another
lives in Orange County, California.
Charnley: So everyone has left Michigan.
Wittwer: Everyone has left Michigan, but I still have many friends in Michigan. But it’s their
interests and their positions have taken them elsewhere. We owe much to Michigan, though.
All our children were reared there.
Charnley: When you left Missouri and took that job at Michigan State College, probably at the


                                                                                   58
time, and then university, did you anticipate you’d spend your entire career there?
Wittwer: No, I really didn’t. In fact, many people said, “This will not be your last move.”
Well, it really wasn’t the last move until we moved back here in southern Nevada. We were
there for fifty years. As I mentioned, Michigan State University has treated us very well. I
have no complaint with anyone at Michigan State University or any misgivings or any
mishandling or anything that I have been in any way treated unfairly or been mistreated. I have
no real enemies. I think I have lots of friends, and we have many fond memories of Michigan
and Michigan State.
Charnley: In looking back at your career there and thinking about the university, is there
anything that maybe comes to mind as being most important?
Wittwer: Within a period of fifty years, there were many things that were important, but the
thing that impresses me is the dramatic growth and maturity and increased dimensions
internationally that Michigan State University has undergone. And the faculty. It’s a great
university, more than just that basketball team that just won. I still follow the activities of
Michigan State University.
Charnley: Are you more of a fan of basketball than you used to be?
Wittwer: When it comes to Michigan State University, I’m very supportive. We had some
good teams there, back with Magic Johnson. Likewise in football.
Charnley: And in research.


                                                                                    59
Wittwer: And in research. It’s been outstanding. There’s still an outstanding research
program there, and I think the thing that impresses me is the broad interdisciplinary programs
that we pursued, encouraged, and initiated, and endorsed when we were at Michigan State
University. Research involves more than just one discipline if it’s to be successful. You have
to have cross-disciplinary, interdisciplinary activities to accomplish much in the way of any kind
of research.
Charnley: Do you think that climate was an important one there?
Wittwer: I think it’s very important and very conducive, very encouraging. It was easy to do.
People were receptive to it. Michigan State University always impressed me with the
innovation of the people there. The innovative approaches, the originality of what has taken
place in that University and is still taking place, I’m sure, it’s unique and covers all. The
dimensions of interest in Michigan State University are very broad. I think the thing that has
happened is that some extremely good faculty have been recruited and good administrators.
That’s what makes a university. There’s a balance there, of course, in teaching public service
and research that is really unique in terms of the degree to which it now occurs and what has
happened.
        I’m prejudiced naturally, and always will be, with respect to Michigan State University,
because I think it’s unique in many ways. I hope it stays that way. But good leadership is
what’s required. Selection of good people and recognizing talent and where there’s good work
is done, that it’s recognized. That was always. As I mentioned, I have never been dissatisfied.
I’ve never asked for a salary increase. I’ve never really had a strong inclination. I have been
approached on many occasions at Michigan State to go elsewhere, but didn’t pay too much


                                                                                60
attention to them because the treatment I received at Michigan State University and the reception
that I received in so many ways was all good.
         The people I worked with, I have no complaints with the people I worked with at all, any
of them. There’s just some outstanding people there in many, many fields. I hope that hasn’t
changed.
Charnley: It hasn’t. It hasn’t. I want to thank you for the time that we’ve spent and the
insights that you’ve shared. I appreciate your perspective. Thank you.
Wittwer: You’re welcome.
[End of interview]


                                                      61
                                           Index
      Adams, Lucille 15
      Agriculture Experiment Station 13, 16
      Anderson, James 23, 25, 43
      Anthony, ______ 9
      Armstrong, _______ 9
      Bartholic, John 45
      Beal, William James 42
      Berkey Hall 11
      Boger, Lawrence 16, 25, 45
      Breslin, Jack 44
      Brown, George 48
      Cannon, John 38
      Carew, John 13, 53
      Carolus, Robert 8, 10, 53
      Carroll, Adger 52
      Chapin, Richard 30
      Coleman, Phil 19
      Color, Bob 39
      Color, John 38
      Cooperative Extension Service 50
      Cousins, Norman 39
      Cowden, Thomas K. 13, 14, 15, 16, 25
      Department of Agriculture 21
      Department of Energy 21, 49
      Environmental Protection Agency 21
      Environmental Research Institute of Michigan 48
      Farm Bureau Federation 46
Feeding a Billion (co-authored by Wittwer) 27, 30, 33
      Ford Foundation 43
      Gardner, B.R. 9
      Garlaine, _______ 18
      Gast, Robert G. 52
      George F. Kettering Foundation 21
      Graff, Elmer 2, 53
      Guyer, Gordon 20, 23, 44, 45


                                                     62
      Hannah, John A. 9, 11, 15, 19, 42-45
      Hoefer, Jake 45
      Holder, Mike 48
      Horton, Cliff 13, 16
      Institute of Water Research 49
      International Agricultural Research Centers 21
      Jacobetti, Dominic J. 18
      Kellogg Biological Station 49
      Kellogg Center 14
      Lego, Dick 48
      Lomberg, Marvin 38
      Mackey, M. Cecil 23
      Malone, Tom 37-39
      Marshall, Larry 34, 45
      Marx, Joe 45
      Matsumora, Fumio 49
      McIntyre, George 18-20
      McPherson, M. Peter 22, 42
      Michigan Department of Agriculture 47, 50
      Michigan State Horticultural Society 12
Michigan State University
      Ag Experiment Station 47, 48
      Board of Trustees 46
      Environmental Toxicology Center 49
      PBB incident 50
      Pesticide Research Center 49, 50
      Remote-sensing program 48
      Toxicology Research Center 50, 51
      Michigan State University Press 27
      Montero, Victor Alamos 53
      Mortinoff, Yuri 36
      Murneeck, A.E. 4
      NASA 21
      National Academy of Sciences 21
      National Research Council 21
      National Science Foundation 14, 21
      NATO 43


                          63
Norman, A.G. 48
Ost, Steve 49, 51
Pridgeon, Dean 46
Ralston, Pat 18
Rockefeller Foundation 43
Rockefeller, David 39
Romney, Governor 17
Romney, Mick 18
Romney, Scott 17


                                64
Schroeder, Ray 10
Sink, Kenneth 49
Smith, Elton 46
Smuckler, Ralph 23, 24, 42
Sower, Richard 45
Taggart, Glen 23, 42, 43
Tukey, H.B. 8, 9, 11-13, 42, 53
Turk, Lloyd M. 13, 15
University of Michigan 48
USAID 21, 42
Went, F.W. 12
Wharton, Clifton R., Jr. 43, 44
Woodwell, George 38
World Bank 21