Interview of Chesya Burke, author and doctoral candidate in the Department of English at the University of Florida Tiffany Pennamon: Hello. My name is Tiffany Pennamon. We're here in Eatonville, Florida. It's January 31st and I'm here with Chesya Burke from the University of Florida. [0:08] So tell me a little bit about yourself and what brings you here to the Zora Hurston festival? Chesya Burke: Um, I'm a speculative fiction, um, writer. Um, I've been writing for many years. Um, [tsk] I am here actually [tapping] for the conference, the Afrofuturism conference. Um, yeah. Tiffany Pennamon: Okay. [0:31] And so what inspired you to get into Black speculative fiction or, um, and Afrofuturism in general? Chesya Burke: Okay. So I have always been interested in, um, speculative fiction. [tapping] Um, my mother was a real horror buff and, um, I remember growing up [throat clearing] listening and watching lots and lots of horror films. And from there [tsk] when I was young, you know, I just started writing. And, uh, so I was kind of one of the only kids who knew, you know, who both, you know, Black Dracula was – right – as well as, you know, knew, you know, kind of some of the real histories [engine humming] behind, um, [tsk] both speculative fi-, um, you know, monsters, if you will, as well as, um, kind of other, um, you know, kind of speculative figures, if you will, like monsters and things like that, so. Tiffany Pennamon: Okay. [1:31] And so like in your own words, how would you define the term Afrofuturism and like when you're talking to students how do you explain it to them? Chesya Burke: Okay. Um, so, um, I define Afrofuturism as, um, the [site 1:44] at which black, um, writers – right – um, use the speculative or, um, [tsk] somehow use the supernatural in order to reimagine a future, um, for themselves. Um, and they are doing so by both, you know, [using] [inaudible 2:02] reaching back to the past but also they're doing it very specifically. Um, they're reaching back to the past in order to reframe a future for themselves. Right? Tiffany Pennamon: [Mm-hm 2:13]. Chesya Burke: And it's all about making sure that one has autonomy over both them – their bodies and themselves as well as their work – right – and how it is that they can talk about and write about and imagine themselves. Tiffany Pennamon: Mm-hm. Chesya Burke: So that’s usually how I talk about it. Tiffany Pennamon: Okay. [2:31] And then what do you think it offers society? Like it is a critique? Is it, um, like a commentary? Chesya Burke: Mm-hm. Tiffany Pennamon: [2:36] What is it to you? Chesya Burke: I think it's all of those things. I think it's, you know, I think it's critique. I think it's commentary. You know, it's, it's, it's critiquing in that, you know, by, by, by [alone 2:46] reimagining a future, what you're doing is you are highlighting the problems that are in our present – right... Tiffany Pennamon: [Mm-hm 2:55]. Chesya Burke: ...and, and reformulating this idea around what could be possible and the s-, you know, um, critiquing what is happening, right? Tiffany Pennamon: Mm-hm. Chesya Burke: So it's not just about, you know, where the fu-, where we lie in the future but how do we get there and what has to change in order for us to get there. Tiffany Pennamon: Okay. [3:16] And... Chesya Burke: Yeah. Tiffany Pennamon: ...what are those problems that you see as like [tsk] happening right now? Chesya Burke: Well, you know, obviously, I think what's happening, you know, in like in, you know, in just the American context – right – um, there seems to be a real push toward, um, you know, a, a real push toward going backward, if you will. Tiffany Pennamon: Mm-hm. Chesya Burke: So the, the ways – a lot of, you know, things happening like with Trump being in office, a lot of the, um, politics that are happening but with voter registration, a lot of the, um, ideals around, you know, uh, women’s bodies, like all of those things are being pushed, um, eh – I wouldn't even say pushed. [I say 3:52] pulled back, right, um, s-, and what's happening – I think what Afrofuturism, um, allows is for us to be able to reexamine those things but also to be able to put a black face on – a, a black face and a place that has not, you know, that hasn’t existed in the past... Tiffany Pennamon: Mm-hm. Chesya Burke: ...or even in the present. Tiffany Pennamon: Yes. [4:17] And then when you think of writers like Zora Neale Hurston, Octavia Butler, um, but specifically Hurston, just for the sake of this conference, what does that... Chesya Burke: Right. Tiffany Pennamon: ...really mean to you? How do you establish that connection between her and her Afrofuturism? Chesya Burke: [tsk] Right. Uh, I think what's, um, really interesting is I'm using, um, Zora Neale Hurston [clicking] in my, um, dissertation. I think what's really interesting, eh, uh, with her is that she was very, very much, um, interested and [tsk] looking at black peoples throughout the di-, diaspora, right? What... Tiffany Pennamon: [Mm-hm 4:47]. Chesya Burke: ...is it about, you know, what is it about? Uh, she was interested in women, of course black women and she was interested very much in what is it, you know, what is it that [clicking] – what are some of our samenesses? What are some of our differences? And... Tiffany Pennamon: Mm-hm. Chesya Burke: ...she goes out and she does that. As an anthropologist, she goes out and seeks those things. And I think that, um, the c-, I think that the society that we live in now makes it more possible for us to be able to bridge those, you know, those differences, those, you know – I won't, I won't even say gaps. Eh, just the, the ways that we exist within society as different groups... Tiffany Pennamon: Mm-hm. Chesya Burke: ...right – while we're all the same – right... Tiffany Pennamon: [Mm-hm 5:24]. Chesya Burke: ...uh, because we're all black people but yet we h-, are socially, um, um – we socially function different ways. So I think that because the society, uh – we exist in a very global society – right... Tiffany Pennamon: Mm-hm. Chesya Burke: ...um, we're able to in a, a lot of ways to bridge, um, the different groups of peoples in a very similar way that she did. Tiffany Pennamon: Mm-hm. Chesya Burke: Right? And I think that, um, her – I, I do see her [tsk] – what would I say? I'd say I see that her uniqueness – right – her, her unwillingness to accept mediocrity, her, um – the, the power that she had in justifying who she was... Tiffany Pennamon: [Hm 6:13]. Chesya Burke: ...I think, um, is really foundational in the way that we see and use, um, Afrofuturism within, you know, our work. Tiffany Pennamon: Mm-hm. [6:24] And then just speaking and hearing your conversations earlier on that point of unwillingness to accept mediocrity... Chesya Burke: Mm-hm. Tiffany Pennamon: ...how do you see that playing in your role today as an Afrofuturist writer, um, within the larger horror space... Chesya Burke: Yeah. Tiffany Pennamon: ...and Afrofuturism? Chesya Burke: Yeah. I think, uh, that, that’s an interesting question. I think that’s very important – right – because I think horror is defined very, uh, simplistically and horror doesn’t and shouldn't, in my mind, be simplistic, right? It isn't about, uh – it doesn’t have to be about mediocrity, right? It isn't just, um, a, um, evil force intruding on good that has to be defeated, right? That isn't the world that black people, black bodies live in, right? Um, instead ver-, it's very much about the world being, um, in a way an evil force that works to suppress us, right? And so in a lot of ways, um, when black people write about, um – when they write speculative fiction, th-, they conjure an evil – you know, they conjure a presence. I won't way an evil force obviously. They conjure a presence in order to help them deal with the reality – right – [tsk] of their existence [clicking] as black people in society. And that’s very much different than what we see in, um, in, in, um, horror, you know, or in speculative works. And so I think that because, um, eh, I, I think because people exist as a, um, resistant force to, um, mainstream society and mainstream ideologies, I think that offers a very unique perspective to be able to critique, of course, um, the society but also to be able to do it in a way that allows the speculative [and 8:07] allows us to, you know, um, reimagine, you know, what could be and what is possible. And so that... Tiffany Pennamon: [Yeah 8:15]. Chesya Burke: ...isn't, that isn't in any way mediocre, eh, mediocre. Yeah. Tiffany Pennamon: And I love what you said, um, just about black people being that resistant force... Chesya Burke: Mm-hm. Tiffany Pennamon: ...um, because a lot of times when we think about who is creating knowledge, who has the say in society, it's often like we're not the first people that are thought about. Chesya Burke: Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And, you know, we, we are people of resistance, right? And that is, you know, globally. Like – right – we have had to resist just, just, [clicking] [background conversation] just through our – you know, just through the fact that we exist as black people in society, that is a resistance in and of itself. Right? And being American specifically, you know, Americans, um, are – [and, and 8:53] a lot of times, you know, globally we aren't understood, right? And, um, black Americans aren't understood, right? [tsk] But I think that one of the important things for us to understand is that black Americans exist in a space to where 1) [tapping] they're black and so they resist on that level. But also the existence of America as a society is a resistant society. Right? In order for us to, eh, as is us America, to exist, we had to fight for our freedom – right – and that fight along – built along with the fight of the, you know, the black body creates what is the African-American. Right? And so we are, you know, a, a, a doubled even triply resistant force [within it 9:35]. And so I think a lot of times it's difficult for others to understand who we are and why we're constantly battling and I think it's because of both who we are, um, as a group but also who we are, you know, societally, right... Tiffany Pennamon: [Yeah 9:47]. Chesya Burke: ...who we are as Americans. [clicking] Tiffany Pennamon: [9:50] And then in that regard, do you think that Black speculative writers have an even greater responsibility in their writing and their work? Chesya Burke: I do actually. I do. I think it's very – I, I th-, I – and I know that’s a... Tiffany Pennamon: [Mm-hm 10:01]. Chesya Burke: ...burden and it's unfair. I do understand that. It's very... Tiffany Pennamon: [Mm-hm 10:04]. Chesya Burke: ...unfair to have oppressed people have to, um, be the people and be the ones who, uh, [background conversation] you know, eh, eh, eh – I think it's very – I think it's, it's r-, it's hard and even wrong in a, in a way to make them responsible for their own, you know, uh, freedom. [laughter] Like there’s something inherently wrong about that. But also when we live – so, eh, another idea that I have around that is that when we live in a res-, a society that is about, um – that does oppress [background conversation] us – right – um, it's in a lot of ways important to be able to voice and acknowledge and, um, you know, uh, use o-, use the power that we have to be able to resist. Now there are, you know, there are many people who, you know, talk about, um – and that’s a conversation that’s happening actually this weekend. They're, um – and very recently [tsk] there are people that talk about not, you know – being tired, [squeaking] you know, or talking about race and I get that. Right? Tiffany Pennamon: Mm-hm. Chesya Burke: I'm tired of being oppressed because of my race. Right? Tiffany Pennamon: And Zora... Chesya Burke: And... Tiffany Pennamon: ...even said that. Chesya Burke: Exactly. Tiffany Pennamon: I'm not a race woman. Chesya Burke: I'm not a r-, I'm not a race woman. Right? [squeaking] And I think that – and that – and I think that’s [tapping] where I differ from her. Uh, and I talk about it in my dissertation I differ from her. But that being said, um, [siren] people should be able to, to voice what they want and I, and I'm absolutely here for that. The voices, I think, that are most interesting are those who do understand the position that they're in and they use that in order to most, uh, benefit the, you know, eh, the society as a whole. Those tend to be the ones that aren't mediocre. They te-, to me – right – and they tend to be ones that are, uh, most interesting in the ways that they can reimagine... Tiffany Pennamon: [Mm-hm 11:59]. Chesya Burke: ...society. Right? But – and I don’t think that, I don’t think that we should force anyone to say or do anything or talk about or write about anything they don’t want to. Tiffany Pennamon: Mm-hm. Chesya Burke: But I do think that it [background conversation] – those – I'm going to seek out the ones that are talking and, and doing and thinking about the things that most interest me and that is freedom for a greater group of people. Tiffany Pennamon: Okay. [12:22] And so when you think of this idea, what does it look like in your work? So you have Let's Play White, uh, The Strange Crimes of Little Africa and lots more short stories... Chesya Burke: Mm-hm. Tiffany Pennamon: ...and fiction. Chesya Burke: Mm-hm. Tiffany Pennamon: [12:32] So could you [tapping] speak a little bit about your own work? Chesya Burke: Um, sure. So, um, I tend to write [clicking] about, um, people in, uh – and generally black women and also, um, very specifically black little girls. Right? And I tend to, um – Afrofuturism, I think, looks a little bit different when people think about my work – right – and because I write a lot of historical, um, [pft 12:59] a lot of historical fiction – right – and think, um, when I, when I like to think about it, I, um, I feel that I'm likely – right – I don’t like to critique my work like that, uh, but I do think that I'm likely reimagining – I'm reimagining a speculative past that offers a brighter future [engine humming] – right – [clicking] and when I write about, um, little black girls and, you know, in the South, um, in, you know, 1950s and ’60s, I'm thinking about the ways [clicking] that they themselves can, um, can function within their society that gives, eh – that allows them a type of power that they may not have actually, you know, eh – may not have necessarily been able to use. Right? Tiffany Pennamon: Mm-hm. Chesya Burke: And so with that, [tsk] I think that it offers th-, not only them a different future but it offers [rattling] their children and their children’s children a future that is – that would be bright and interesting and dynamic and all of the things that sometimes we don’t necessarily see. Tiffany Pennamon: Mm-hm. [14:06] And then just in terms of, um, like film too, so are you influenced by film in your own writings? Chesya Burke: Mm-hm. [clicking] Um, yeah, I would definitely say I was. I would definitely say I was. [clicking] I am a huge horror buff. I'm also a huge zombie fan. Uh, like, [laughter] like I will watch any zombie, anything zombies good – for good or bad. I'll just watch it if it's zombies. Right? [laughter] Um, and so, um, I think that, um, [tsk] I use – I do use – I try not to use the f-, influence of film so much but I don’t think that you can kind of remove yourself that. Right? I think everything that we, that we interact with and we see and we learn becomes a part of our work – right – and it becomes a part of who we are and [there 14:49] – that’s a part of our work. But I think that there’s so much more – there’s so many more options that are available when it comes to being able to write than what is necessarily available for, um, for film. Right? And visually there's different things happening. So w-, a, a lot of [clicking] times like if I'll teach a film class, I'll teach it along the side of the literally work – right – and, you know, you can see like there are just certain things that can be on the page that can't be on the film and vice versa. Tiffany Pennamon: Mm-hm. Chesya Burke: Right? So, um, I think that, eh, the way that I write, I do imagine things in my head like a film... Tiffany Pennamon: Okay. Chesya Burke: ...like literally. Um, you know, I imagine, eh – and I write down what I see [clanking] – right – in my head. But I don’t think – but I ima-, but when I – but when I'm writing [tapping] and I'm writing it very much, eh, eh, in a literary [tapping] fashion and not in a f-, a screenplay fashion... Tiffany Pennamon: Mm-hm. Chesya Burke: ...if that makes sense. But that’s something that you teach yourself to do. Right? So, um, but, um, eh, back to the point, yes, I do, I do love film. I love film and I do, um, and I, and I do think it's as important and maybe even in some cases, um, more because you can reach a broad-, a bigger audience... Tiffany Pennamon: Mm-hm. [16:08] [And that 16:08]... Chesya Burke: ...[than what you will 16:08]... Tiffany Pennamon: ...makes me think of what would a Hurston film look like? Chesya Burke: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean I would love to, I would love to see h-, I don’t know who – 1) I would love to see a film about her. Tiffany Pennamon: Mm-hm. Chesya Burke: But it scares me [tapping] what s-, what, what would happen to her [tapping] if put on film. So I'm kind of happy that she hasn’t necessarily been, you know, imagined on film. But, eh, but [tapping] that’s al-, there’s also sadness there because I don’t know who could write her... Tiffany Pennamon: Mm-hm. Chesya Burke: ...you know, in a way that would give her justice because she was fantastic – right – in that, in that – like [clicking] she just – she gave no – she, she didn’t care. Right? She... Tiffany Pennamon: Mm-hm. Chesya Burke: She didn’t care. And she’s the one – and I think, and I think that’s what's important to me [tapping] about when I think about Afrofuturism and I think about her. She defined her own terms. She, she defined her age. She defined where she was from. She defined how she was born and she didn’t care what other people thought about those things. She tor-, told these wild stories even about her own past. Right? I think at one point she talks about being – having – being – learning to walk because of a, a, a cow or something. Right? And it, it's irrelevant whether or not it was true. The point is is that that is what – how we are a-, she was able to define herself and that’s how we know her. Tiffany Pennamon: Mm-hm. Chesya Burke: Right? We know her through the stories that she tells about herself, through the words in which we – that she described herself. Right? And there is nobody else’s terms by that. And that is, that, that is Afrofuturism. Tiffany Pennamon: [17:42] Would you say that she had that original Black Girl Magic? Chesya Burke: [tsk] I would absolutely [clapping] [laughter] say she has that original Black Girl Magic. Uh, I would say that she picked it up like, eh – my dissertation. You know, I would say that she picked it up, like she was Black Girl Magic in that her ancestors were Black Girl [Magic 18:00], her ancestors being people like, um, you know, the Black Moses, Harriet Tubman – right – whereas literally we are able to, you know, see someone who is, you know, um, speaking truth to power – right – someone that is physically doing the work to make sure that people are free. That is resistance in a way that you don’t see, let's say, um – that, that w-, when we talk about, you know, resistance around black bodies, we often don’t get to write about ourselves. Right? Tiffany Pennamon: Mm-hm. Chesya Burke: It's also – it's often told to us and we're not often telling the stories. Right? And we're not often using the words [tapping] for which black people at the time [tapping] defined themselves. Right? And so someone like Harriet Tubman who, you know, went through – who, who w-, again, you know, was willing to die for the cause that she believed in – right – Black Girl Magic. Tiffany Pennamon: [Mm-hm 18:51]. Chesya Burke: Right. [clapping] Um, absolutely Zora Neale Hurston. You know, someone who defined her life by her own terms, [tsk] Black Girl Magic. It is just resistance in a way that is unwilling to acquiesce to the [white 19:04] [clicking] [inaudible 19:05]. Tiffany Pennamon: Okay. [19:06] And then when you're speaking with students about, uh, Black Girl Magic, with black resistance, um, what is that process like? Do you get pushback? Are people curious? Chesya Burke: Right. So one of the things that I think is so important in my classes because we have to get to a point to where they're willing to accept [thumping] or at least willing to acknowledge certain things are existing. Right? Um, and – but then why? What is it like – you know, what is the purpose? Like, eh, if, if we come into the class and we just start talking about Black Girl Magic, okay, so why is this a big deal? Right? So it's important to define a historical [scratching] context for students. Right? So I do start [scratching] back in the past [tapping] and I look at the reasons [tapping] for which black people and black bodies have had to resist in society. [tapping] Right? So what is it that slavery looked like? [clicking] What, [tapping] what was happening, you know, in the past? Right? Why is it that we had resistance [tapping] movements like Nat Turner, that we had, you know, resistance figures like, um, Harriet Tubman, [Inaudible] [Truth 20:02]. Right? Who are these people? Right? And, you know, what happened around these times? So once we, we define what histor-, history looks like for black bodies, then we can look at what resistance looks like. Why resist in these ways and not in other ways? Right? Why is it that we don’t get to define the way that oppressed bodies resist? Right? Tiffany Pennamon: [Inaudible 20:24]. Chesya Burke: What is it, you know, that, that this looks like for these groups of people? Tiffany Pennamon: Mm-hm. Chesya Burke: So, yeah. Tiffany Pennamon: Okay. And then when I think of that, I think of resistance as endurance as well, so... Chesya Burke: Mm-hm. Tiffany Pennamon: ...just the endurance of Eatonville... Chesya Burke: Mm-hm. Tiffany Pennamon: ...itself. [20:36] So... Chesya Burke: Exactly. Tiffany Pennamon: ...how do you see just the, [clicking] the, the conference... Chesya Burke: Mm-hm. Tiffany Pennamon: ...um, continuing and furthering Hurston’s legacy? Chesya Burke: I think it seems really, really cool. Um, I think that, uh, like just like the fact that – and I was, I was unaware until relatively recently that they have been, you know, here keeping, you know, her voice and her memories and, you know, her words and all of this alive and just being here and watching the kids come in – right – and, you know, learning about like this woman, like that many people won't have learned about. Like I think that it's amazing. Right? And I think that them being able to acknowledge her, um, accept that, you know, she was – she’s an important figure and also accept that her legacy is Afrofuturism. Right? I think that that’s just – I, I think it's [groundbreaking 21:30]. I... Tiffany Pennamon: [Inaudible 21:31]. Chesya Burke: ...really do. I [give them much] [inaudible 21:32] for that. Tiffany Pennamon: [Yes 21:33]. And then I'd also, um, [clicking] like to talk about climate change... Chesya Burke: Mm-hm. [Yeah. Okay 21:37]. Tiffany Pennamon: ...as it relates... Chesya Burke: [Interesting 21:38]. Tiffany Pennamon: ...to Hurston [inaudible 21:38] Afrofuturism too. And so and, um, she talked about Their Eyes Were Watching God... Chesya Burke: Mm-hm. Tiffany Pennamon: ...[about the 21:43] 1928 hurricane, um, that was like a real event... Chesya Burke: Mm-hm. Tiffany Pennamon: ...that she included in her fiction. Chesya Burke: [tsk 21:47] Right. Tiffany Pennamon: [21:48] And so what commentary do you think she had just on our coexistence as... Chesya Burke: Right. Tiffany Pennamon: ...we are facing whatever’s gonna happen if we don’t address climate change right now? Chesya Burke: [tsk] Uh, that’s an interesting question. I think that what she would say [clicking] is that we're idiots. Right? We, we [laughter] just – like I think it is important to acknowledge we don’t tend to learn from our past and we tend to repeat it consistently. And if anything is our downfall outside of [clicking] the racism, outside of the, you know, sexism, outside of the bigotry that tends to happen, uh, I think that it is our refusal to acknowledge the things that are most evident in our lives – right – and the things that we [can't – the 22:38], the things that we could change and we refuse to. Right? [clicking] And I think that the constant acceptance of – like the constant belief that we have to accept the way things are is, is, is a human – is a f-, eh – we accept as a human flaw but it's one that will be our downfall if we don’t change [tapping] it. And I think that like [background conversation] the fact that we – you know, I would connect that to let's say Katrina. Right? Tiffany Pennamon: Mm-hm. Chesya Burke: The fact that 1) there was so much that could've been done to prevent Katrina but then afterward, there was so much to be done [tapping] to help people that were in it and suffering, um, speaks a lot about who we are as a group, uh, as, as a collective of Americans. Right? But it [verys 23:23] – very much speaks about the ways in which we view black bodies... Tiffany Pennamon: Mm-hm. Chesya Burke: ...which I think is what, um, here Zora would [clicking] have critiqued. How is it that – who is it that we see – um, [tsk] we find worthy [clicking] of, um, saving and who is it that we're willing to leave behind for whatever reasons. Right? And we called our own, um, citizens, um, [background conversation] refugees. Right? Our own... Tiffany Pennamon: [Mm-hm 23:51]. Chesya Burke: ...citizens refugees – right – in their own country. Like where... Tiffany Pennamon: [Inaudible 23:54]. Chesya Burke: ...does, where does, where does that end? Tiffany Pennamon: Okay. [23:58] And then just as you see in your work, how do you see it's manifesting in the real world in terms of how people can reimagine themselves, black girls, black women [clicking] and do you do any work in the community as well? Chesya Burke: [tsk] Yeah. So I think that, um, [tapping] black, I think Black Girl Magic is – I, I actually support Black Girl Magic wholly obviously. I'm doing a whole dissertation [tapping] on it. But the reason I do is because I think that it is both [background conversation] coined and controlled and, um, dictated by black women. Unlike other, um, images, [clicking] like let's say the strong black woman, for instance, um, that was an image that was forced on us. Right? Very often we did take it on because it's, you know, who doesn’t wanna be strong. Right? But... Tiffany Pennamon: [Mm-hm 24:49]. Chesya Burke: ...that is an image in which was and has, um, been detrimental to black women – right – [clicking] um, in that the strong black woman creates a image of a black woman that has to work for, um – work to maintain, um, other people and not necessarily, um, to benefit herself. Right? Tiffany Pennamon: [Mm-hm 25:12]. Chesya Burke: And so to be strong in this regard is to be strong to the point to where you kill yourself. This is a problem. And I think that – I think and I, I, you know, I really hope, um, that for Black Girl Magic it is – because it's ran and it's control and it's dictated by black women, we get to decide who and what is [clicking] Black Girl Magic. There is no – there's no defining force coming in and choosing for us. Now we have the, we have the ability of, of corrupting that. But I think so far it's imagined black women as things from let's say, you know, Michelle Obama to the everyday working mom. Tiffany Pennamon: Mm-hm. Chesya Burke: Right? Everybody is Black Girl Magic who puts in, puts in any type of work around both themselves and their community. Right? And you don’t have to, you know, you don’t have to be a phenomenal – you don’t have to be Serena to be Black Girl Magic. Tiffany Pennamon: [Right. Yeah 26:06]. Chesya Burke: You could just be you and I – right – and I think that’s what's great about it. Right? You don’t have to, you don’t have to be overly strong. You don’t have to be overly weak. You can be exactly what you want to be in that moment and you [clapping] still represent Black Girl Magic. Tiffany Pennamon: Mm-hm. Chesya Burke: [tsk] And I think that’s what's really important about it. [clicking] You had a second question. Tiffany Pennamon: Yes. [26:23] Uh, do you do any community work too? Chesya Burke: Um, so, [clapping] yeah. I tend to do a lot of community. So I was, um, at CASA, which is a court-appointed, um, special advocate and basically I worked as, um, a child advocate and I [clicking] worked in the court system, um, for – whereas the lawyer worked and did what the child wanted. Right? That was the child’s lawyers’, um, responsibility. I went and – went into the homes, [clicking] took a look at the, um, families, took a look at what was going on and I, uh, di-, told the court what I thought was best for the child. And so there were 2 different roles. So there would be 2 of us sitting there, the court – you know, the lawyer who was there for, you know, for what the child wanted and there was me. I was sitting there in the court to dictate – to talk about what I felt the child needed and what was best for the child. And so I very often when I, you know, work in my communities – I also, um, [tsk] sat on the board of directors for, um, WisCon, which is a, a feminist [clapping] conference. Um, and, um, um, Charis bookstore, [laughter] which is a feminist bookstore in Atlanta. Um, and, um, of [clicking] course, both of those being literary but both of them being focused on, um, women but specifically I – my role was, um, and in both places is to talk about, you know, the ways in which minority women, um, [voice 27:51] – you know, eh, to give [moin- 27:52] minority women a voice, [tapping] so. Tiffany Pennamon: Okay. Chesya Burke: Yeah. Tiffany Pennamon: [27:55] And so what can contemporary Afrofuturists learn from Zora Neale Hurston and early generations of black thinkers? Chesya Burke: [tsk] Hm. What could they learn? Oh, so much. I think, [background conversation] eh, I – okay. So I keep mentioning this because I think that this is one of the most fantastic things [background conversation] about her – is the fact that she defined herself. And I think that if we want a future, then we have to make one. Right? Um, and I'll bring up again, um, someone like Z-, um, [Inaudible] [Truth 28:25]. I will bring up people like, um, [tsk] Audre Lord. Like these are people that refused to accept the image around them. Right? They spoke out when they saw injustice. They, um, defined themselves for who they were – right – and not – and didn’t let the society do that. I think if we can learn anything, it's if nothing el-, if you don’t wanna l-, leave your house, then s-, you don’t have to. [background conversation] Do it on your terms... Tiffany Pennamon: Mm-hm. Chesya Burke: ...and not on anyone else’s. Right? You don’t have to go out and r-, you know, r-, you know, uh, control or run or, you know, a revolution. Just know that you have every right to exist however you choose in whatever space you choose [background conversation] [tapping] wherever you choose. Right? And I think that’s one of the things that – and one of the most important things that we learn. Tiffany Pennamon: Okay. [29:18] And then on that point, um, just like that power of language... Chesya Burke: Mm-hm. Tiffany Pennamon: ...[that is self-] [inaudible 29:21]... Chesya Burke: [Absolutely 29:21]. Tiffany Pennamon: ...self-narratives, [background conversation] uh, why do you think that’s so important and do you think that we're lacking right now in terms of how we communicate our own stories? Chesya Burke: Okay. So I think that it's important because I think that, um, blackness has been defined by everyone but black people. Right? And, you know, stereotypes and negative st-, images and all of these other things, I mean blackness, like if you, you know – it's really true, you know, if you look in the dictionary, blackness is literally, uh, associated with darkness, [clicking] [background conversation] badness, you know, and all of these [clicking] negative images and that is not something that we [clicking] created – right – but it is something that we have to resist. Tiffany Pennamon: Mm-hm. Chesya Burke: [tsk] Or not resist if we choose obviously but it is, it is something that writers very often choose to resist. Um, so I do think that, that, that’s really important. And your second question was? Tiffany Pennamon: [30:17] So in terms of the way that we can communicate our stories, um, do you see like any problems with the media in terms of how black communities specifically shape and give voice to their own experiences? Chesya Burke: Hm. [tsk] Any problems? Tiffany Pennamon: Mm-hm. So yesterday I did my presentation on how journalists can kind of model what Zora Neale Hurston’s empathetic storytelling and gathering of stories... Chesya Burke: Mm-hm. Tiffany Pennamon: ...could do for just like... Chesya Burke: Mm-hm. Tiffany Pennamon: ...preserving... Chesya Burke: Hm. Tiffany Pennamon: ...your story... Chesya Burke: Mm-hm. Tiffany Pennamon: ...and so I guess I argued that journalists could be more moral first and... Chesya Burke: Hm. [Inaudible 30:47]. Tiffany Pennamon: ...they could be – they could expand the definition of what’s truth... Chesya Burke: Okay. Tiffany Pennamon: ...because right now there’s that kind of if I didn’t see it, then it's not true. Chesya Burke: Okay. Tiffany Pennamon: [30:56] And so how are you going... Chesya Burke: Okay. Tiffany Pennamon: ...to tell someone’s story it's not true if you didn’t – you... Chesya Burke: Mm-hm. Tiffany Pennamon: ...you’re not that person? Chesya Burke: Mm-hm. Mm-hm. [tsk] Yeah. I do think that – I think one of the, one of the issues with that – like [clanking] empathy is very important – right – and like, eh – but the problem is is that it's – and, and [since] [inaudible] [tends to 31:13] show that it's difficult for – I won't say for whatever reason. It is, eh, white people tend not to empathize with, uh, black people. Right? Uh, and that is across the board. And I think that, therefore, when they tell our stories, they constantly tell them from the, the historical lens that they, that they have been conditioned to see us. And I think that us being able to control our own stories is very important but I think that what’s happening is is that a lot of times we don’t have that power – right – and we don’t have the, uh – and we have to force, you know, this type of autonomy that isn't necessarily given to us. Right? And so I think we're constantly gonna be battling the images that they put out versus the ima-, that – versus, versus what's reality. You know, like you said, [tsk] you know, two people will see the same incident – right – and depending on the, uh, the, the, eh, the [site 32:20] in which they exist in the world, they will see it differently. Tiffany Pennamon: Mm-hm. Chesya Burke: They will see two of the same, you know – the exact same thing and they will see it differently and, thus, they, uh – and, thus, I do think that being able to, to, to rethink about what is truth, you know, how is it that we position, you know, what is truth and r-, and even reality, right? Uh, we're still working on time, you know, which we constantly consider ling-, linear. Tiffany Pennamon: Mm-hm. Chesya Burke: Right? Reality we think is just what we see, you know, and very often, obviously, even when using Afrofuturism – right – it is, it is really, you know, our idea of what is reality is very often, you know, speculative. Tiffany Pennamon: [Inaudible 33:07]. Chesya Burke: It's very often, you know, we will hearken and think back to our ancestors. We will use, you know, s-, the, the stories of our, um, ancestors to be able to tell our children t-, [moral 33:19] tell so that they learn from what has happened in the past. Tiffany Pennamon: Mm-hm. Chesya Burke: So I think that, you know, being able to – eh, eh, that’s why I think that it's so important. Afrofuturism 1) is so important but also, uh, [background conversation] us being able – and I think that’s also a really good, um, [tsk] reason why Afrofuturism is named what it is, very much like, [clicking] uh, Black Girl Magic, it can't be taking over. Like it is afro. There is no, there is no lying about that, right? Tiffany Pennamon: Yes. Chesya Burke: You know, white people are not gonna be writing Afrofuturism. Right? Tiffany Pennamon: Mm-hm. Chesya Burke: So, um, I think that, you know, th-, eh, us being – like the words that we use, defining ourselves are all very, very, very powerful. Tiffany Pennamon: [34:01] And so what did it mean to be in a collective space with the other Black speculative writers earlier today? Chesya Burke: Yeah. It's really good. Like it's really good being able to sit down and talking. You know, l-, we, you know – as you know, we talked a lot of about like kind of the things that we've all gone through. Right? It's, it's practically a battleground. Like, you know, constantly, you know, being able to try to, you know, write and publish and, you know, uh, making sure, you know, one of the things that we haven't talked about – making sure that – like one of the things that was really hard for me, especially in the beginning, how do I make sure that I'm not putting out – reinforcing stereotypes that I don’t understand that I'm doing. Right? You know, and so [tsk] constantly, um, you know, r-, you know, thinking about my position, the power that I have just with my voice in my writing – right – um, and, uh, making sure that I'm not harming – right – you're d-, I'm doing more good than harm. Right? But being able to sit in a space and talk about these things with people who have also gone through it – right – or people who have gone through it in a different way and them telling me their s-, you know, their stories. Um, [and I f- 35:09] – I'm – I really do like being in spaces with writers and very specifically black wri-, and women writers, um, that – or black women writers that, um – to be able just to share the time. Tiffany Pennamon: Okay. Chesya Burke: Yeah. Tiffany Pennamon: [35:24] And so in a space like the Hurston Festival, um, what legacy do you see for it and for Hurston’s legacy herself, um, just in terms of how we can reimagine the future, what it means to have community, um, what it means to tell our own truth? Chesya Burke: Okay. I'm probably gonna have to have you [laughter] tell me [laughter] those again. Okay. So, uh, 1) I think this legacy, I m-, I think it's just [background conversation] inevitable. Um, the legacy, eh, now is like it won't die, like it won't die and I think that’s really great. And I think that, uh, the town has, you know, seen to the fact that it won't and has, you know, made her, uh, like as important as she was. You know and I think that that’s, eh, eh, that’s great. Like [they're 36:08] – I, I d-, I cannot even express how much [clapping] I think that this festival 1) is important and 2) like just seeing the children and seeing the people. And, you know, these are people that will never forget her, which means their children won't forget her and their children won't forget her. Right? She is forever here. She’s inevitable. And I love it. Uh, and the second – and... Tiffany Pennamon: [36:28] So the community and our telling of our own stories? Chesya Burke: Mm-hm. [tsk] So the community and I [sighing] – like the fact that 1) Zora defined herself [tapping] and, thus, tells her own story but also they get to tell [tapping] her story. [thumping] Right? They get to keep it alive – right – and through the food, through the eating, through the sharing, through the communication – right – through the people from all over that have come here for this, I, I think that that’s very important as well. Tiffany Pennamon: Nice. [36:56] And so when you think of people like Hurston, uh, how has she influenced your own work and then [clicking] what are you going to be working on in the next few years or... Chesya Burke: Mm-hm. Tiffany Pennamon: ...the next few months? Chesya Burke: Mm-hm. [tsk] I think that she has, uh – I [don’t 37:08] think that she’s influenced me a lot. Um, I tend to, uh, eh – I think she’s influenced me a lot, uh, but I think that as much as my work – I think my person [clapping] that she’s influenced me. Like, eh, I've said, you know, before that I like the fact that she defined herself by her own terms and I [background conversation] work very hard to live my life that way as well – right – um, in that, you know, what you see and what you take from that is on you. [tapping] Right? What I present and how I feel about myself, you can't change. And I think that, um, so, so I'll, I'll define everything about myself because I won't let anyone else do it and I think that’s what I take from her and I think that I'm very happy to be able to take that from her. And, uh, and I love it. I l-, I absolutely love it. I, I am a huge – I'm a huge [engine humming] fan of a lot of the ways that she existed in society. I do disagree on some things, uh, we talked about, you know, a little bit. But the way that she existed and the way that she defined herself, I would never take that from her. I would never take anything from her. But I do appreciate that. Uh, and there was one more. Tiffany Pennamon: [38:21] So what are you going to be working on [tsk] in the next few [years] [inaudible 38:23]? Chesya Burke: Um, so I just – I, I am working on – I just, um, signed a contract, um, with [tapping] Rutgers University Press, [squeaking] uh, and it's for a book about Storm from the X-Men, so [clapping] I'm, uh – and this – it's an academic book, uh, and it's looking at Storm and I, you know, I'm really excited about [thumping] that. [clapping] I'm also – I just finished a middle-grade novel, [clicking] uh, about a – uh, 2 black sisters in Atlanta, um, and, um, so my agent has that. And, uh, I h-, h-, I have a, I have a list of things that must get done sometime in the future [clapping] that, um – some of them I can talk about. Some of them I can't, so. Tiffany Pennamon: Okay. Chesya Burke: Yeah. Tiffany Pennamon: And so that’s all for me but thank you so much for speaking with me, Chesya, and I hope you enjoy the rest of your time here. Chesya Burke: Thank you. Thank you for having me. /lo