Interview of author Tenea D. Johnson at the Zora Neale Hurston Festival in Eatonville, Florida Grace Chun: Hello. My name Grace Chun and today is January 31st and I'm here at Zora's place doing interviews at the Zora Neale Hurston Festival. [00:12] Um, could you please introduce yourself? [clicking] Tenea Johnson: My name is Tenea D. Johnson., uh, speculative fiction author. Grace Chun: Um, great. [00:23] Uh, will you share a little bit about, um, your up-, upbringing? [background conversation] Tenea Johnson: Upbringing. Um, born'n raised in Louisville, Kentucky. So, um, single-parent household most of my life in between, um, very different economic classes between [background conversation] my 2 parents, so it's a lot of.um, sub, suburban upbringing with, um, [clicking] more poor people sensibility. And I'm the youngest. [snapping] Grace Chun: [00:52] How many siblings do you have? Tenea Johnson: Three. [background conversation] Grace Chun: Okay. Tenea Johnson: Yeah. A brother and sister. Grace Chun: [00:56] How long did you live in Kentucky? Tenea Johnson: Until I graduated from high school. So once I graduated, I left Kentucky and then – well – I visited, but I've never lived there since. Grace Chun: [1:05] Where did you go next? Tenea Johnson: Went to college in, um, Florida – Sarasota, Florida, in a place called New College of Florida. Then I went to grad school in New York [background conversation] to NYU, um, and after that, various other cities; Atlanta, D.C., um, someplace else I'm forgetting, and then eventually back to Florida. [snapping] Grace Chun: That's great. [1:29] Um, can you share how you came into your work with Afrofuturism? [snapping] Tenea Johnson: Well, I've always written stories. I've always written stories and songs. And for me, the things that interest me – it's really creating my own world and universes because I want to examine certain questions that, that speculative fiction is large enough to encompass. And because I wanna tell the stories of all kinds of people, and I'm particularly interested in stories a people of color, um, and what the future holds – that has come to be called Afrofuturism. So I feel like I started writing something and then one day someone labeled it this. Grace Chun: Hm. Tenea Johnson: So… [laughter] Grace Chun: [2:04] How would you define speculative fiction? [clicking] [background conversation] Tenea Johnson: For me, speculative fiction is anything that's not realistic, so fantasy, science fiction, alternative history, magic realism, weird fiction – anything that doesn't have to, uh, abide by the rules of, you know, physics that we have to abide by. Grace Chun: Okay. Tenea Johnson: Yeah. Grace Chun: [2:22] And how would you define Afrofuturism? [background conversation] Tenea Johnson: Uh, that's a tricky one. I mean, I think, I think Afrofuturism is a convenient term for Black speculative fiction. Now that's not the way the, the guy that penned the phrase – that's not how he would define it, but that's what I – I think it's a handy marketing label and it gives people like, um, just an easy way to understand it and to be interested in it. [background conversation] Yeah. Grace Chun: [2:46] What was your first ec-, encounter with Black speculative fiction or Afrofuturism… Tenea Johnson: Um… Grace Chun: …would you say? Tenea Johnson: …for me, I read a lot of Octavia Butler when I was a kid, but I think it was probably Beloved. I definitely consider Toni Morrison's Beloved to be speculative fiction. I mean, it's not put in that category because it's "literary," [background conversation] so there's still that sort of divergence between what people think is really valuable and they don't call that [genre 2:11] fiction, but I think it was Beloved. And other than that, um, yeah, a lot of Octavia Butler, and some Gabriel Garcia Márquez, but that's not Black speculative fiction. Still, [it's 3:20] speculative fiction. [laughter] Grace Chun: Mm-hm. [3:24] Um, so did you pursue writing as a student? Tenea Johnson: Uh, I did to a certain extent. Actually, my undergrad, funnily enough, said that I'd be able to get a writing degree, but that was not the case. [laughter] So I ended up doing more like anthropology and humanities, but my, um, my undergraduate – my oral baccalaureate was actually about Octavia Butler. And the school that I went to, New College, has a lot of, uh – it's a very free program like you don't have core requirements. It's essentially – you create your own program, so I put a lotta writing into the program. And then for grad school, I continued to do that, and did oral history, actually. Grace Chun: Oh. Tenea Johnson: A little bit of that. Not just like a, a major, but I took quite a few classes in it. Grace Chun: That's great. Tenea Johnson: Yeah. [background conversation] Grace Chun: [4:06] Um, so from your perspective, what does Afrofuturism o-, uh, offer society at this moment? Tenea Johnson: Mm. I think it offers society a lot of things. Um, for better or for worse, one a the main things is people that aren't neces-, that didn't necessarily value the perspective of – not just the Black community [in 4:28] my opinion like people of color – it, it, it makes them value in a way where they had none before, where like, "Oh, this is worth paying attention to," because they happened to've liked Black Panther, so now they're interested in, "Oh, what a-, what about everything else from someone else's perspective?" Like maybe that's interesting, [background noise] which should've always been obvious, but right now it's popular, so people are more open to it. [background conversation] Grace Chun: Hm. [4:50] Do you think it acts as like a critique? [clicking] Tenea Johnson: Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, I think it's impossible for a cr-, a certain amount of social critique to not be part of any literature to be perfectly honest. But definitely Afrofuturism because you're trying to speculate about what's going to happen from [snapping] this point we're at. Where could we go from here if we continue on this same sort of, um, misguided path? Or if we make certain changes? Or what does it look like when people have technologies or opportunities that they wouldn't necessarily have, you know? It's just, uh, more versions of, of the world that the world needs ta see, so it can decide what it wants ta do. Grace Chun: Mm-hm. [laughter] [5:29] Uh, can you share some of your work [snapping] that [you 5:33]… Tenea Johnson: Um, I have – currently I have th-, 3 novels? I have a novel'n stories yet. I have a novel and stories, uh, and [background conversation] a sequel that came out last year, and those are essentially – it's about –it was, it began in genetic reparations for slavery. So the first book is about this genius that creates, um, genetic reparations for slavery. But then he eventually opens up – so it's not just Black people, it's poor people – because at that point, in, uh, this [futureverse 5:59] of the U.S., all people that don't have a lot of money are suffering from, um, just the inequalities that are literally [background conversation] killing them. So – and the – because biogenetic adaptations have become a commodity and some of it's on the commercial market, rich people can literally e-, evolve away from the rest of humanity and literally survive things, um, that are going on in the environment that they created where others can't. So it's – it becomes a survival mechanism. So – and then in, in the second book, I explore what happens with one particular, um, family that's affected by it's biogenetic adaptation. So that's one thing. And then another novel that's, you know, anxiety and nanotechnology and magic; actually almost short stories. I try to, um, I try ta take things that interest me and inject some technology in it to, [background conversation] um, to look at things that I think are important that don't get enough attention. And sometimes – I don't really write escapist stuff but sometimes I write things that are just to be enjoyed, you know. Grace Chun: [7:05] What is some of your main forms of inspiration? [snapping] Tenea Johnson: Hm. [background conversation] [snapping] What's my main form of inspiration? I don't know. I write a lotta songs, so I have some storytelling to music. Usually – I don't even know if I need inspiration. My – I just have one of those brains that's always going, so sometimes you wanna capture something like, "Oh, that's special. Let's, let's see what happens when I spend some time on this." So, um – but if I did have ta choose something as an inspiration, I would say my fellow human beings. And like, you know, when people do extraordinary things – and certainly people in my family and people that I've known or even people I've known of [clicking] that do incredible things, um, and just [background conversation] have integrity and honor beyond measure, I like to sorta put a spot light on that. Grace Chun: [7:52] Are there – do you encounter other writers who work in kinda Black speculative fiction? Tenea Johnson: I do because, you know, [background conversation] I come to events, uh, like this, and I've gone to [cons 8:01] over the years and just gotten to know people somewhat socially and, um, social media – actually, you, you don't know them well because you know that, know the virtual version of them. But there is some amount of connection, so yeah, I would say so. Grace Chun: [8:17] What are some of the – is it like other conferences? [background conversation] generally Tenea Johnson: Other conferences. Um, generally I would say conventions and conferences. But social media – like this person knows that person, um, but I do better, or I, I appreciate more meeting people face to face, so I think… Grace Chun: Hm. Tenea Johnson: …that's why that's worked well for me. Grace Chun: [8:37] Do you ever engage with like the academic world that… Tenea Johnson: Yeah. I do because I was in academia for a wh-, [snapping] – I never taught but, you know, [background conversation] went on to grad school and all that. But I go to the, uh, International Conference for the Fantastic in the Arts in Orlando. So I've been going to that for a decade. So, um, in that sense, I also – I meet people there and it gives me an opportunity to see how people are analyzing work that's, um, that's being produced [background conversation] and then also gives you opportunity to see authors watch people talk about their work? Grace Chun: Hm. Tenea Johnson: Which is an odd experience but really interesting. Yeah. Grace Chun: Um, I guess – shifting over to Zora Neale Hurston… Tenea Johnson: Mm-hm. Grace Chun: [9:19] In your mind, what is the link between Zora Neale Hurston and Afrofuturism? [background conversation] Tenea Johnson: [snapping] I think [throat clearing] because I, I took a lot of cultural anthropology – I, I'm interested in cultural anthropology. I really feel like that's – and [background conversation] one of the, uh, um, downfalls [laughter] – one of the problems with cultural anthropology is the idea of an ethnography. Someone from the outside looking in, you know, and always bringing their situated knowledge, their perspective, their, you know, preconceived notions and trying to define another society through that. And I think Zora Neale Hurston was very good at flipping that to a certain extent because she wasn't the "other" that people were used to, so, um, she provided a window into worlds that was a little bit more informed. And I think Afrofuturism does that as well when it's done well. [background conversation] Grace Chun: [10:09] Um, do you think the festival here – engagement with Afrofuturism, continues Hurston's legacy? Tenea Johnson: [snapping] Hm. I think it has the potential to do so, but since this is the first year, I can't say for sure that it does or it doesn't. Grace Chun: You make a good point. Um, and then, [10:28] what can contemporary Afrofuturists learn from Zora Neale Hurston? Tenea Johnson: Hm. Be brave. Be open. Be articulate. [background conversation] Hm, and do it exactly the way that you wanna do it, but let that be informed by best practices. You know, she was not egotistical in what she did but she was confident. And she did it well. And that's where confidence should come from. [laughter] So… Grace Chun: [10:54] Um, which, uh, Zora Neale Hurston's work do you… Tenea Johnson: Uh… Grace Chun: …have you [background conversation] [inaudible 11:00]? Tenea Johnson: I would… Grace Chun: [Inaudible 11:02]. Tenea Johnson: …have to say the ethnographies, honestly. Just because, um, I enjoy fiction but sometimes I like seeing things that are not fictionalized at all like really just seeing someone's observations of the world [background conversation] and how they articulate them and organize them in a way that's just suppose to communicate reality. So I can't pick one, but I would say just ethnographies in general. Grace Chun: [11:31] Um, so do you feel that the genre is growing? Tenea Johnson: Yeah, definitely. It's definitely growing because it's commercial and because a lotta people didn't know it existed and, and for some people, probably a good number of people [background conversation] – if they don't know something's an option, they don't pursue it. Grace Chun: Mm-hm. Tenea Johnson: So now that they know it's an option, "And maybe I can even make a living or make a name for myself," then they're more open, um, to producing work and, you know, it gives'm a little bit more hope. So that's good. Grace Chun: [11:58] Are you able to focus [background conversation] fully on writing? Tenea Johnson: [clicking] No. I have a day job. Grace Chun: Okay. Tenea Johnson: I have a day job and I have a business of my own. I have, uh – some a my work comes out through other presses and some of it comes through my own press. And then because I do storytelling and music, and that's so odd in the sense that if there's no infrastructure set up for that, then I need ta, ta put it out myself. So… Grace Chun: [background conversation] [12:19] How did you kind of intersect the music and storytelling? Tenea Johnson: For me, it was natural because, uh, I started writing songs and stories at the same time. Grace Chun: Hm. Tenea Johnson: And for – there were portions of my life where I was known much more as a musician than as a writer. So this is an interesting time 'cause now I'm sorta known more as a writer, so it was more difficult for me to try to keep them separate. So I just stopped doing that. Grace Chun: Hm. [laughter] [12:42] Have you met others that are doing similar – like combining this? Tenea Johnson: I haven't, but that's not to say they're not out there. Because, I mean, if I listen to certain jazz albums like "A Drum Is a Woman," you know, and certain, um, even some performative poetry like – it gets close. Grace Chun: Mm-hm. Tenea Johnson: But because they're labeling it as something else, and it's not as narrative – like they're looking at it as poetry or as music? They don't have as much of a narrative [background conversation] arc, you know, but I think it's like, um, storytelling at the end of the day. So it just happens to be a story that includes music. [laughter] Grace Chun: [13:20] Um, so do you personally also consume a lot of speculative fiction? [snapping] Tenea Johnson: I don't consume as much as others because I'm trying to create it all the time [laughter] but I find, exspecially now, I'm always – I'm more of a short story reader, um, because I don't – like I like really [background conversation] succinct novels that get ta the point. I'm sort of an impatient reader. [laughter] So short stories work well for me. And they have to be done so well that, um, it can teach me something about craft as well. Grace Chun: Mm-hm. [13:52] Is film ever play into that? Tenea Johnson: Oh, I love – yeah. I watch movies more than almost [background conversation] – more than one should almost. I [inaudible 13:58] [laughter] And I've been told, strangely, that my work is, "Oh, this is very cinematic," or some other piece like, "This is very musical." Things that I never thought of and didn't think were in there, but apparently are showing up anyway. But yeah, yeah. And then [snapping] from the sp-, from – for the science fiction angle? That's my favorite movie genre and I've probably seen more science fiction movies than I've read science fiction books. Grace Chun: Hm. Tenea Johnson: 'Cause I read a lotta classics for sci-, like straight science fiction and not speculative fiction… Grace Chun: Hm. Tenea Johnson: …which were, you know, Oxford Book of this and that – they were very, um, some of them are r-, really well-written but they're, they're really from like 1 or 2 perspectives, which is crazy considering that uni-, universe upon universe to choose from and it's kinda the same thing. But in my experience, movies have been a little bit better about that, exspecially when they're not from the U.S. Grace Chun: [14:46] What are some of your favorites? Tenea Johnson: Oh, uh, I gotta go with "Aliens," 'cause that was probably, you know – when I was a kid, that was a-, that was so, um, classic. That was a great protagonist. Um, uh, now that you're asking me, I can't think of the name of the movie. What was the one - something with 9 – South Africa. I can't remember what it is but, um, yeah, now that you're asking me, they've all just flown outta my head. [laughter] Grace Chun: Sorry. Tenea Johnson: That's okay. Grace Chun: You said that you watched a lot of international films? Tenea Johnson: Yeah. Well, a good number of international films, let's say. Grace Chun: Mm-hm. Tenea Johnson: Yeah. Grace Chun: [15:17] Um, have you come across any [background conversation] work in Afrofuturism that are from abroad? [clicking] Tenea Johnson: Fr-, for Af-, – I wanna see "Atlantics." I have not seen it yet. Grace Chun: Hm. Tenea Johnson: But I've heard very good things about it. And that one that I can't think of now, that's, uh, something 9. But it is a South African film essentially, where – it's kind of a parable for apartheid. Grace Chun: Hm. Tenea Johnson: But they happen to be aliens as opposed to Black people and White people. And then, you know, one a them becomes an alien, which is something that, you know, we can't change races. So it's, um, an, an opportunity to explore that, so that's another that I would choose. [background conversation] But Afrofuturism, unfortunately, is probably a little less represented. I've probably seen more Asian films that are spec. Grace Chun: Hm. Tenea Johnson: So – just 'cause there's a bigger market, um, and just more movies out. Grace Chun: Right. Tenea Johnson: Yeah. Grace Chun: [16:09] Um, are you working on any writing projects currently? Tenea Johnson: I am. I'm working on a fiction album and, um, also a collection, a linked collection called Blueprints For Better Worlds. So, uh, I've become somewhat, um, impatient with the world moving forward and I feel like [honking] dystopian tales don't work. Cautionary tales don't work. They don't actually change anything. It just gives you a language to explain the way in which things are deteriorating, you know? Doublespeak – look at the Trump era, you know? So with all these nice catchphrases, we don't, we don't have any actual inspirational work that shows you how to do something. [background conversation] Like [no one 16:51] knows what should be done. We – even know how to do it, but maybe if, um, if you can actually place it in people's minds in a way where it's as exciting as cosplay or this or that, it'll actually help you do something. So I'm just taking technologies that already exist or ar-, have already been designed and showing how, in these worlds, it can save a world or make it a better world. Not a utopian world, just a better world. Grace Chun: Hm. Tenea Johnson: So that's my current project. [background conversation] And then, you know, try to link that to actual, real world, real world platforms and apps and tools to actually help people. So… Grace Chun: That's great. Tenea Johnson: Yeah. Grace Chun: [17:26] Um, so if someone was trying to find [clicking], um, [background conversation] – I guess like where can people find you? [clicking] Tenea Johnson: Google me. [laughter] So I have a website, all that good stuff, um, [clicking] but yeah. I am, uh, I'm in Amazon, all those things. Now brick'n mortar stores? It's gonna be harder, so I would say go online because, um, distribution – the small press stuff, you'll be able to find. But the things that I'm putting out through [Counterpoise17:53] Records? You're gonna find electronic versions of them or it's going to be print-on-demand. So the simplest thing would just be put my name in, Tenea D. Johnson. [laughter] Grace Chun: [18:02] Um, do readers engage with you on social media? [clicking] [background conversation] Tenea Johnson: Yeah, they do. M-, mostly what they say is that I need to say more or do more. 'Cause I'm not, I'm not a natural social media sp-, sorta person. Tenea Johnson: Uh-huh. Tenea Johnson: So – but anytime that someone takes the time ta reach out and say that or agree or be positive about whatever you're doing or encourage you to do it more, I see that as, uh, sort of a gift. They didn't have to take time out of their day ta e-mail me or ping me or do all these things, so obviously [snapping] it was, it was engaging enough for them ta, ta do that. Grace Chun: Mm-hm. Tenea Johnson: So I appreciate it. Grace Chun: Yeah. [18:38] Um, do you have any other, I guess, thoughts you wanna share about Afrofuturism [clicking] or… [background conversation] Tenea Johnson: I hope that it can become a greater force than entertainment. Grace Chun: Hm. Tenea Johnson: I mean – but I hope that for all speculative fiction. I hope that for all futurism. That it's not just an idea. That we do something with the idea. Grace Chun: [18:58] Do you feel like you've seen that happen? Tenea Johnson: Not the – I mean, there's a material difference if you're an actor or if you're a director or if you're a writer. If you work in a, in the entertainment field, you have more opportunities 'cause are more open to that. But outside of entertainment? I have not yet seen that. No. So – but I hope to. [background conversation] Grace Chun: And it sounds like the genre is growing, so hopefully more people… Tenea Johnson: Yeah. Grace Chun: …um, engage with the work. Tenea Johnson: Yeah. And I think some of it is about defining – like sort of m-, making that identity one that does something. That makes it powerful in a way where it's not. Because it's just like potential, you know? [snapping] Everything's got potential. It's just what you do with it. So I think there's a possibility. Make it cool and – yeah, that's all you need. Make it cool. Grace Chun: Mm-hm. Tenea Johnson: 'Cause if someone's willing ta meticulously, uh, create some sort of a costume – I don't – no disrespect by calling it a costume for cosplay and like immerse, and immerse themselves in that? Then they can take that same energy and do something more than pretend. Like what if you could actually make them a little bit – like 10 percent of whatever it is they're trying to be by dressing up this way? Like actually change some material part of their life that makes them feel more [snapping] powerful [background conversation] and like the world is bigger. 'Cause that's – I think, I think that's why people do those things, 'cause they're not satisfied with the current state of the world. Like this is so much cooler than what we live in, so I'm gonna go pretend to live in this world for a little while, so… Grace Chun: [20:26] So if someone is new ta Afrofuturism… Tenea Johnson: Mm-hm. Grace Chun: …what would you recommend? Where… Tenea Johnson: Oh…. Grace Chun: …would you recommend they start? Tenea Johnson: Well, I'd ask them what kinda stuff they like. I tend to like things that are – I like difficult things. I like – I'm a big proponent of, "We get through things, we don't get over things." So like – I mean I, uh, read Beloved as a kid, you know, liking – so I was really into it. That's not gonna be the book for a lotta people. [laughter] Grace Chun: Mm-hm. Tenea Johnson: It's pretty heavy, [laughter] so I would have to ask them what sort of things they enjoy. And then, you know, I'd probably, I'd probably still go [background conversation] – Márquez or, um, Kurt Vonnegut, Octavia Butler, hm, [pause] [tsk] and some others. But yeah, I try to get a read for their personality first. And if they like literary or wordier stuff or if they want – if they want space opera, I'm gonna have ta ask'm what else because I don't read as much space opera. But yeah, that's what I would say. [background conversation] Grace Chun: All right. Um, those are all of my questions. [21:31] Do you have any more? Tenea Johnson: No. Grace Chun: Any final thoughts or… Tenea Johnson: Hm. Grace Chun: …um… Tenea Johnson: Final thoughts on Afrofuturism. I would say, um, onward, you know? Let's… Grace Chun: Hm. Tenea Johnson: …not be a commodity. Let's not be a flash in the pan. Let's be something more [background conversation] and find that way that Afrofuturism can become collaborative, you know? Because I would like to see it expand a bit more, so that it's, it's marginalized peoples in general. Like what is our future? Grace Chun: Hm. Tenea Johnson: What are we gonna define and what are – how are we going to do this? Uh, but I do think it is very important [background conversation] for, for whatever group it is to have their, their time and their moment and not just be lost and like, "Well, it's not about just you. It's all of us." No, no. It really is about both. Like I feel like that's the strength [and puricity 22:20]. It is what makes us different, but take what makes us the same and gets [inaudible 22:26]. Grace Chun: Mm-hm. Tenea Johnson: So… Grace Chun: [22:27] So you feel hopeful about that [inaudible 22:28]? Tenea Johnson: Yeah, sure. I mean, 'cause what's the alternative? [laughter] That's not, I know, a super positive way of looking at it, but, you know, I would choose hope. I would choose more than hope. I would choose actual change, but hope is an absolutely essential part a that. Grace Chun: Uh, thank you so much. Tenea Johnson: Thank you, Grace. Grace Chun: Yeah. Tenea Johnson: Good questions. Grace Chun: And if you're – if there's anything else during the day… Tenea Johnson: Yeah. Grace Chun: …that you'd like to share or add more, if you have more thoughts… Tenea Johnson: Okay. Grace Chun: …we'll be around. Tenea Johnson: All right. Sounds good. [snapping] /lb