In an oral history interview, Don Stevens, former Michigan State University trustee and AFL-CIO board member, talks about conflicts within the leadership of the state AFL-CIO, how he came to head the state CIO Education Department, and visiting Europe in order to help unions in postwar Europe reestablish themselves. Stevens describes efforts to influence elections, endorsing John Swainson for Governor, and tax issues involving Detroit which cost Swainson reelection. He also talks about the creation of the labor center at MSU, the start of Oakland University as a separate institution during his time as an MSU trustee, and John Hannah's presidency of MSU. He closes by considering what that the labor movement in Michigan has accomplished, what it has meant to him, and the threats it is under. Stevens is interviewed by John Revitte, MSU professor of Labor and Industrial Relations. Part four of four.