[Gordon Thomas] Good evening ladies and gentlemen welcome again to Students from Afar. This is a program as you know, which attempts to bring you a little of the culture of the many countries which are represented by our foreign students on campus. This evening we are going to take you for a short time to India and show you some uh part of their culture. Right at the moment we're not going to tell you what part of the of their culture we're going to talk about. I'd like to introduce to you two of the people that we are going to have with us this evening. First of all on my immediate left is Miss Sarajini Godry, and Miss Godry I would like to ask you a little about yourself if you don't mind. First of all what part of India do you come from? [Sarajini Godry] I come from a central part of India or which is now called Madhya Pradesh or used to be known as Central Provinces. (Mmhhmm) And the name of my city is Jebelpur. [Gordon Thomas] Jebelpur. And how big a city is that? [Sarajini Godry] Well, Jebelpur would be little... small, just smaller than Lansing, I would say. [Gordon Thomas] Mmhhmm, and what is it particularly known for, besides you? [Sarajini Godry] Well, the main industry is tile making (Gordon Johnson: I see). The roof tile and the drainage tile. [Gordon Thomas] And before you came to this country, Sarajini, did you go to a university or college there? [Sarajini Godry] Yes, I did go to a junior college. That was a mission college, and I went there for two years. [Gordon Thomas] I see. Then you came here to Michigan State. [Sarajini Godry] That's right. [Gordon Thomas] And what have you been studying here? [Sarajini Godry] I have been studying nursery school education. [Gordon Thomas] That sounds very interesting. How much longer do you have? [Sarajini Godry] I'm senior this term, and I hope to graduate this June. [Gordon Thomas] Well, I'm sure you will. We'll be very sorry to lose you. Are you going right back home? [Sarajini Godry] Well, no, not immediately. I wish to take one year of graduate work here at Michigan State, but I'm not too sure about it yet. [Gordon Thomas] And what do you plan to do when you go back home? [Sarajini Godry] Well, I plan to teach in a nursery school as well as in a training institute for women. [Gordon Thomas] Mm-hmm. Well, fine. We wish you lots of luck when you get back home. I'm sure you'll do a wonderful job. Now I if we may leave Sarajini for just a moment and turn to the young gentleman on my left this is Mr. Gholam Ahmed Khan and Gholam Where do you come from in India? [Gholam Ahmed Khan] I come from Hyderabad State [Gordon Thomas] Now I've heard of that state just about where in India is it, just to show my ignorance of geography, whereabouts in India is that? [Gholam Ahmed Khan] well you could say it is in the south. [Gordon Thomas] in the south? [Gholam Ahmed Khan] Yeah. [Gordon Thomas] And what city did you come from? [Gholam Ahmed Khan] Hyderabad city. [Gordon Thomas] From Hyderabad. And did you go to a university or college? I'll ask you the same question as I asked Sarajini. [Gholam Ahmed Khan] Well I went to Usmania University in Hyderabad City. [Gordon Thomas] What did you study? [Gholam Ahmed Khan] There I studied physics. [Gordon Thomas] Physics? [Gholam Ahmed Khan] Physics. [Gordon Thomas] And you have a degree from there? [Gholam Ahmed Khan] Yeah I got a degree there. [Gordon Thomas] And then you came to Michigan State. I might ask you in passing why you picked Michigan State to attend. [Gholam Ahmed Khan] Well there's no obvious reason for it but this happened to be this college I picked up. [Gordon Thomas] Mm-hmm for what particular course are you interested? [Gholam Ahmed Khan] Well I'm doing my BS again here in mechanical engineering. [Gordon Thomas] In mechanical engineering? And how many more years do you have left here? [Gholam Ahmed Khan] Well this is my second term here. I'll be maybe about two or three years. [Gordon Thomas] I see what do you expect to do when you go back home? [Gholam Ahmed Khan] Well as my profession suggests I'll be a mechanical engineer. [Gordon Thomas] In your own home state I suppose so that's fine and we feel sure that you are going to do a good job when you get back to India. Well we'd like to talk with you two people about your own backgrounds and experiences and impressions of the United States, which is a very familiar question I think, that is asked both of you but there's one thing that I would be more specifically interested in this evening. And that is something that I've noticed on campus when walking back and forth but of all the foreign students that we have on campus, and I think we have around 300 of them representing close to 50 different countries, are that the ones that really stand out are the Indian girls. And that's I think because are the very beautiful clothes that they wear. I think almost all of the other foreign students simply wear Western clothes immediately, but the Indian girls always stay right with their saris. And I think it adds a very beautiful note to the campus. And so if I may Sarajini, I'd like to ask you a little about this sari, one of which you are wearing, ask you for instance, is that typical dress of Indian girls? [Sarajini Godry] Well, as you know this dress that the Indian girls wear is known as sari. But there are quite a few different ways of putting it on. Now for example this way that I have this sari on is not the most typical way that you would see the girls on the campus. But this one is a mostly common are mostly worn in Bombay state, or a state which is north of Bombay, called Gujarat, and this this new style of putting it on is quite different than and the most common style. Well, the sari is made of just a straight piece of material and about six yards, I would say. And the material differs just like it would differ in any other country. But the most common is cotton because I think, India produces a lot of cotton. And besides the climate is suitable for cotton. Yet on the other hand we have gorgeous silk and some sheer fabrics like pineapple fabrics. And of course these saris, they come in all different colors. [Gordon Thomas] As I was noting that particularly, Sarajini that this one that you have on is in what would you call it, yellow? [Sarajini] Yes, I am [Gordon Thomas] Orange? I'm not a very good judge of color. And the black and the contrast there with the black blouse that you are wearing, I think is very striking and I think you'll find many very gay colors in the saris that are worn. [Sarajini Godry] That's right, the more gay colors we have the better the sari is. [Gordon Thomas] Now I'm interested in you were telling there about how to put a sari on, I'm interested in just how that is done. And I think that you've managed to persuade a couple of young ladies to be with us. A one of an American girl, Pat Bloom, and who's going to do the modeling for this sari. And the other one is another Indian student, Parul Chatterjee and she's going to show or demonstrate how this is done. So perhaps we might look at this now while you demonstrate what is being done. [Sarajini Godry] Well first of we have this half slip which in most cases is made of cotton. But in this particular case it is white satin. Then of course for the top we have blouses made of different materials. But right now Pat has a sweater on. And as I told you before this sari is a straight piece of material about six yards and the border and the printing is in this particular sari is done by hand. Now you take the first end of the sari and start tucking from the right side. And after you make the first round of tucking sari then you take some more material from the front and make pleats with your fingers like Parul is doing. And then these pleats they are tucked in right in front so they provide a sort of full skirt. Then the left over material is taken and sort of half circle I would say and then put it on left shoulder I mean right shoulder. I'm sorry [chuckles]. That's all there is to putting on sari. This is the style that I have my sari on right now. [Gordon Thomas] Mm-hmm that's the finished product. Now notice there that as you indicated to us, there is no sewing and no tailoring involved in this at all is there? [Sarajini Godry] No except for the finishing edges. [Gordon Thomas] Mm-hmm and the blouse, (and the blouse) but otherwise it's just it's done very simple just a straight piece of cloth which is draped and tucked? (Yes) It sounds like a very simple process, and yet you can come out with very beautiful results I think. Well we are going to come back to some of the other saris in just a minute, but I would like to turn here to Khan ask him about some of the men's clothing. I would like to ask you uh Mr. Khan whether how much western dress is used in India. [Gholam Ahmed Khan] Well western dress is used mainly mainly in the government officers and and mostly and sometimes in the colleges as well but it has had some influence in the Indian dress but mostly people wear the Indian dress. [Gordon Thomas] Now is that Indian dress the same in all parts of the country? [Gholam Ahmed Khan] Well in different parts of the country we have different dresses as so as as you have so many different types of kinds of sari so also we have different dresses in different states. [Gordon Thomas] Now I might ask you at this point if I can if you know why this dress differs - is a matter of religion or or culture or just why do some parts of India, some men in parts of India use a certain dress and in another part they use another kind of dress? Is there any reason for that that you know of? [Gholam Ahmed Khan] Well the obvious  reason I could think of is that different being India being a large land of different colors, creed, and religions and customs and manners so also we have so many dresses. [Gordon Thomas] I suppose in other words it may reflect their culture, their background in some way so their culture is not all the same throughout all of India it varies tremendously I think and so that you will find variations and quite different kinds of costumes throughout India. I'm thinking particularly of the one that you are wearing now and I wonder if you would explain it, tell us about it a little. [Gholam Ahmed Khan] Well the dress I am wearing is the official dress and could fit as formal dress. This consists of tight colored coat known as the sherwani. This is worn over a kurta, that is a cotton shirt without a collar. And with the sherwani is worn white pajamas. Pajamas are usually white in color. Well it could have any colors in the sherwani but the official color is black and with the sherwani is on the cap known as Gandhi cap. [Gordon Thomas] I'll ask you a very obvious question and that is why is it called a Gandhi cap? [Gholam Ahmed Khan] Gandhi he himself wore that cap so it has become a popular name for this style of cap. [Gordon Thomas] I believe many of the people that followed Gandhi also wore this cap became somewhat of a symbol (yeah)  uh -huh and this is a very common type of cap in India is it not? [Gholam Ahmed Khan] Yes it is. [Gordon Thomas] [Gholam Ahmed Khan] [Gordon Thomas] [Gholam Ahmed Khan] [Gordon Thomas] I'm interested after looking at the gay colors that the saris had in asking you about the colors that the men wear. Now are you restricted to rather conservative colors, for instance this one that you have is made up of what color? [Gholam Ahmed Khan] You could call it buff color. [Gordon Thomas] Yes a buff color and the white trousers, black hat which is fairly conservative now do you have any other color combinations uh with this particular type of dress? [Gholam Ahmed Khan] Well you could  have any color in the sherwani but pajamas are always white. [Gordon Thomas] Always white, I see, and well would you go in for rather gay colors such as blue or purple or lavender or something like that? [Gholam Ahmed Khan] Well the gay colors are mostly reserved for gay occasions like marriages or some other gay parties (mm-hmm) and people usually wear some colors, darker colors. [Gordon Thomas] Now this particular dress that you are wearing is typical of what section did you say? [Gholam Ahmed Khan] Well this particular  dress is worn nearly throughout India. [Gordon Thomas] Throughout India, but you'll find it more common in one section than another...or not? [Gholam Ahmed Khan] No no, it's worn throughout and mostly by Government officials Because this is the state dress. (Gordon Thomas: I see) Well, the national dress. [Gordon Thomas] I see, well that's been very  interesting. I think probably most of our audience have seen pictures of Indian officials who are dressed just this way. May we come back now, if you don't mind my leaving you Mr. Khan, to Sarajani again and talk about these saris which are so interesting. Now you mentioned somewhere along the line about the fact that these were not always worn exactly the same way but that material essentially was a piece of cloth was just about the same and I think we'd be interested in in that. I might ask you before we continue however if the young girls in India wear saris too? [Sarajini Godry]  Well it depends on what you call young. [Gordon Thomas] Well let's say a ten-year-old. Would a ten-year-old girl wear a sari? [Sarajini Godry] Um no uh they would nowadays most of them wear -our children- uh wear uh these western skirts and blouses but as they reach puberty i would say they start wearing uh saris but of course even though they are children you know sometimes they like very much to dress up like a mother or like older sister (Gordon Thomas: That's what we do here) and so for our weddings or certain ceremonies or festivals they do get chance to wear sari. [Gordon Thomas] Now I think we'd like to look at a sari that was worn in a slightly different way and Parul Chatterjee has come back perhaps you could tell us about this particular sari that .0000000001164 she's wearing. that Parul has now is the most common way of putting it on and the of course she has a blouse which is black satin and her sari -the material of her sari- is rayon and I think the way it differs from the style of mine is that this this long the leftover material after the pleats comes on her left shoulder while in my case it comes on my right shoulder. Now the that design on the end is I think silk embroidery and the design is Indian and you would find this is the most common way of putting it putting sari on and in most part of India you would find ladies or girls wearing dress like this [Gordon Thomas] I think I think that's a very beautiful costume of which we're missing a great deal of because we don't have the colors here and Parul's with a very beautiful costume particularly with a contrast of the blouse and the sari itself. I think we'd like to see other saris if it's at all possible. I think we have one other young lady here, Shakuntala Mal is going to show us another one and uh what about this particular sari? [Sarajini Godry] Well this particular um dress that Shakuntala has is not sari. [Gordon Thomas] Oh this is not a sari? [Sarajini Godry] No, this happens to be a full skirt for the bottom and then she has a blouse and on top of her blouse she has sheer material about two yards which is called choli or dupatta. Now, notice how it comes around on her head and usually when we go in our temples or in churches, we usually cover our heads instead of wearing hats. Now this particular dress is worn mostly in northwestern part of India or in most of the states of northern India. And right now the dress that Shakuntala has is made of gorgeous silk and that beautiful gold border but the village girls who wear the same type of dress is usually made of cotton and all rough textural material to suit their purposes. [Gordon Thomas] I noticed particularly in addition to this very beautiful costume that she's wearing, that she has some jewelry in particularly the jewelry that comes down over her hair and right there on her forehead. Does that have any significance at all or is that for just the decoration? [Sarajini Godry] Well that that is mainly worn by the girls or by the women who are married. Or during the festivals we usually put on that jewelry. [Gordon Thomas]  Well, it certainly adds a great deal I think to the entire costume. I don't think it can be overlooked in in sensing the beauty of the Indian costume. Uh you have indicated that i think that there are other styles besides this isn't that right Sarajini? [Sarajini Godry] Yes that's right and you could certainly tell from the style the sari is worn which part this particular style comes from. For example as I told you that i my style comes from Bombay state or what you would call western part of India and the one that Shakuntala has on was from mostly northern part of India and we have another style for eastern part of India and southern part of India and some other states but the style that Parul had on is the most common. [Gordon Thomas] Is the one that you would find in most places? And I think I've noticed that on campus that usually the girls wear that style, at least I think I've detected that. Now when there when it's right or left I'm not sure that I always notice which is which. Well we might now turn again to men's dress and ask about that. I'm going to ask you Mr. Khan the same question I asked Sarijini and that is what do the young men or the boys wear in India? Do they wear copies of the adult dress or let's say six, seven, eight year old wear? [Gholam Ahmed Khan] Well, children usually wear shorts and shirts in their childhood, and as they grow up, they wear either the Indian dress or the English dress. But usually in the college they wear the Indian dress, namely the Dhoti shirt and the cap, or the shirt and pajamas. [Gordon Thomas] I see. Now one other thing that interests me of course in this country you might say that the typical dress of men is a business suit and yet of course when you look around casually on a city street there are a large number of people who are not wearing that, particularly laborers and people who work on the farms and so on they don't wear a suit when they're at work and I'm wondering for instance what the laborers of India wear when they are working? [Gholam Ahmed Khan] Well the laborers mainly wear the dhoti and the shirt. [Gordon Thomas] Now just what is the dhoti?  You've mentioned it a couple of times. [Gholam Ahmed Khan] The dhoti is a piece of cloth about five yards long and is wrapped around the waist and one end is taken right in between the legs and stuck behind. [Gordon Thomas] And that is a common dress that is worn by the laborer. What would he wear on his head for instance? [Gholam Ahmed Khan] He'll wear either the cap - the type I am wearing - or a turban. [Gordon Thomas]  I see and we're going to see the turban a little later on I believe. In fact right now we are going to have someone show us the another kind of costume that is worn in India and here again, perhaps you will explain this one, Mr. Khan? [Gholam Ahmed Khan] Well, this dress is the casual wear, you could say. It consists of the dhoti, the shirt without the collar and the Gandhi cap and usually slippers are worn. Well, this is the dress we will see mostly in right around India and sometimes in colleges as well and this is also worn by government officials as you might have seen in photos of our ministers and so on. [Gordon Thomas] Maybe Mr. Patel there would turn around so we can see all sides of and the back of this? It's a very cool looking costume I would say, particularly in a hot climate. [Gholam Ahmed Khan] Yeah it is very suited for a hot climate. [Gordon Thomas] Now this is this is somewhat corresponds as you say to the dress that Parul was wearing that is it's typical of all of India. You're more likely to find that perhaps than any other. Now of course we have other styles than that and uh in addition to the one that Mr. Patel was wearing and we now have Mr. Singh, who has a completely different uh costume. Mr. Khan I'm going to leave it up to you again to explain just what we have here. [Gholam Ahmed Khan] Well this dress is worn mostly in Rajasthan or more commonly known as Rajputana. This is the evening dress worn there. It consists of three parts: mainly the turban, the coat, and the trousers. Well the coat could be of any color, excepting for gay color, either dark dark khaki or brown or white but the trousers are usually black or white. The black is used for dinners. [Gordon Thomas] It's it's a very I think distinguished looking dress and I'm gonna have to copy that myself some time. I noticed particularly the turban that Mr. Singh was wearing, it rather fascinates me, it makes him look very dignified. I'd be interested to see how he ties this. Perhaps while he's doing this Mr. Khan, you could kind of cue us as to what is going on. [Gholam Ahmed Khan] Well the turban it is a piece of cloth about 30 feet long and four feet broad and as you see it is folded up at one end and then just passed under the chin and held it held by under the chin and wound around the head several times. Well one end is held in the right hand so that it piles up at one corner just to give a pointed appearance. Well the final end is taken over the head and tucked right behind the portion held under the chin is brought over and tucked over the head and the other end is let loose behind the head, it forms like a tail. Well that's the jodhpuri. [Gordon Thomas] Well we certainly enjoyed that demonstration. I think he did a wonderful job, I've got to go home and practice that myself. I would like to thank you two people for being with us. We've enjoyed seeing these dresses, the different costumes the men have. We hope that the audience has enjoyed it too and we'd like to ask you to be back with us again. Good evening. [instrumental music]