DB32703 Margaret Duncan: This is Margaret Duncan of the Tucson Unit of the Women's Overseas Service League, and I'm interviewing Mrs. Clare Rounsevell Ellinwood in Tucson, Arizona. Mrs. Ellinwood is a member of the Tucson Unit of the Women's Overseas Service League who served in World War I. [00:29] Uh, Clare, what branch of the service did you serve with? Clare R. Ellinwood: Uh, the US Medical Corps. Margaret Duncan: And what was the, what was the name of the hospital? Clare R. Ellinwood: Uh, US Army Base Hospital No. 20, University of Pennsylvania Base Hospital. Margaret Duncan: [00:42] And how did, how did you happen to, uh, uh, be in the, um, the University of Pennsylvania Hospital? Clare R. Ellinwood: I wasn't at the hospital. Margaret Duncan: [00:53] Uh, no, I mean how did you happen to join the hospital unit? Clare R. Ellinwood: Uh, I wanted to, and, uh, since a family friend was a chief benefactor [inaudible 01:07] in the unit, and, uh, I finally squeezed in. Margaret Duncan: [01:14]: Did you, uh… Clare R. Ellinwood: I didn't go through any military channel. I never went to a… Margaret Duncan: Oh. Clare R. Ellinwood: ...recruiting office or… Margaret Duncan: Yeah or, or anything like that. [01:22] Uh, did you, uh, in what capacity did you, um, join the, uh, hospital unit? Clare R. Ellinwood: Secretary. Margaret Duncan: As a secretary. [01:30] How many, how many, and you're – as a civilian employee. Clare R. Ellinwood: Yes. Margaret Duncan: [01:34] How many, how many civilian employees did they have? Clare R. Ellinwood: Three, two secretaries and a dietician. Margaret Duncan: And a dietician. [01:40] Um, what, what influenced you to volunteer? Because you wanted to go overseas? Did you have family members overseas? Clare R. Ellinwood: Because the man I wanted to marry had gone and joined the French Army about four months before, joined the French [inaudible 01:55]. Margaret Duncan: Oh I see. [01:58] Uh, well, uh, was your father overseas at this time? Clare R. Ellinwood: As a matter-of-fact, at that time, uh, everybody in the country wanted to go to war. It wa-, it wasn't an individual desire on my part, every woman wanted to get in the service and go to France. Margaret Duncan: This was in, uh, 1917. Clare R. Ellinwood: Right. Margaret Duncan: And, um, the United States had just, uh, entered the, uh… Clare R. Ellinwood: Right. Margaret Duncan: ...entered World, World War I. [02:25] Um, what did you do prior to your, uh, going there? Clare R. Ellinwood: Worked as a secretary. Margaret Duncan: Yeah. [02:30] Whereabouts? Clare R. Ellinwood: In, uh, San Francisco and Philadelphia. Margaret Duncan: Oh I see. [02:38] And so you were in Philadelphia at this time? Clare R. Ellinwood: Right. Margaret Duncan: [02:41] And this, uh, the University of Pennsylvania Hospital was, uh, under the auspices of the medical college at the University of Pennsylvania, is that correct? Clare R. Ellinwood: Yes. I think that's the same [program 02:51]... Margaret Duncan: Mm-hm. Clare R. Ellinwood: ...but it was called the University of Pennsylvania Base Hospital. Margaret Duncan: Yeah. Clare R. Ellinwood: Mm-hm. [Inaudible 02:57]. Margaret Duncan: Yeah. [02:59] Uh, well, and so you did, what did you do, uh, in the hospital unit? Clare R. Ellinwood: Uh, I worked in the, uh, headquarters office, just in a little, uh, villa. We had an office about 8 feet square with a table made out of boxes, and 2 enlisted men and I kept the records and I acted as secretary to the commanding officer who had a small office next to ours. Margaret Duncan: [03:30] Um, when – after you, uh, joined this unit in, uh, Philadelphia, um, where did you go, um, what port did you go to for, uh, embarkation to France? Clare R. Ellinwood: New York. Margaret Duncan: You went to New York. [03:42] And you did this in, um, and you left New York, you went in the springtime of, uh, 1917? Clare R. Ellinwood: I think so. Margaret Duncan: [03:51] And, uh, what ship did you go over on? Can you remember? Clare R. Ellinwood: [laughter] After a week on Ellis Island, we boarded the Leviathan. It had been the Vaterland, a great, um, German, uh, cruise ship. It was the largest ship in the world and we – there were 5,000 troops aboard. The, uh, hulls were filled with bunks, five tiers high. Many of the men were sick. It was a big ship, um, it was so fast that we couldn't have any sort of a convoy. Before we sailed, we were – we experimented. We were put into a frightful, rubber [arrangements 04:44]. It was solid, heavy rubber, and it had a metal [inaudible 04:48] shoulder height to hold it out like this. Had a cover clamped over your head and here you were in this rubber case and, on this enormous ship, out on high decks, in case of a attack or in case we had to abandon ship, we were supposed to jump five stories up and land on a raft that looked about this big. [Inaudible 05:19] we didn't have any sort of protection. Margaret Duncan: You didn't have any protection in case they, uh… Clare R. Ellinwood: No protection. Margaret Duncan: ...in case the, the ship was attacked by a submarine. Clare R. Ellinwood: Right. Margaret Duncan: [05:27] So, but you got, you – how long did it take you to go from New York… Clare R. Ellinwood: I think it took us about a week. Margaret Duncan: ...to France? And where did you land in France? Clare R. Ellinwood: Brest. Margaret Duncan: [05:36] Uh, before you went, uh, before you went to the port, uh, did they, uh, outfit you with a uniform? Clare R. Ellinwood: Yes. We went to New York, got terrible uniforms, our awful shoes, and our ugly hats. Margaret Duncan: [05:48] Um, can you describe the uniform a little bit more? Clare R. Ellinwood: Just a dark, dull gray, uh, serge. We had the same insignia as the nurses. I think a a different metal. I think theirs were brass and ours were sort of a dull copper. Long skirts, they were just [like I said, aw- 06:05] and we had [Coward 06:08] shoes, which were nasty yellow and sort of, the toes, very odd toes, well. And they had black felt hats, men's hats. Margaret Duncan: [06:20] Were, were the shoes lace-type shoes? Clare R. Ellinwood: Yes. Margaret Duncan: Oh. [06:23] The high shoes with, uh, lacings? Clare R. Ellinwood: Yes. Margaret Duncan: I think that's, I think, uh, one of the other nurses that served in World War I, I think she talked about shoes and I think they probably were the same idea. Clare R. Ellinwood: [Inaudible 06:35] [Coward] shoes [inaudible] World War I. Margaret Duncan: Yeah. That's probably what it was. [06:39] Uh, when you got over to France, uh, and you landed in Brest, where did you go from there? Where was the hospital? Clare R. Ellinwood: We, we got off the boat in [inaudible 06:50] and [inaudible] across the [dock], through a gate, there was a French woman with a basket of rolls. The nurses scorned the rolls, but my friend and I [laughter] each grabbed several, and we boarded a tiny little French train, very small, seats were small, very cramped, and I think we were on that train three days. And we had no meals. They passed out some, uh, beef, you know, canned beef, [inaudible 07:26]. Uh, there were no, there were no meals served. There was no hot food. Uh, sleeping, sleeping was a problem because it was crowded. I think we were 4 to a seat and they were small. What we did was put our suitcases between the two seats. There was a space betw-, between the facing seats. We piled our suitcases so we had a kind of a flat surface, and that's the way we slept. I guess we took turns because we were 4 to a seat [inaudible 07:55] [sleep inaudible]. The one thing that was delightful about the trip is – was the country. And I suppose it was [inaudible 08:11] we went through, and the little towns that were [inaudible 08:16] picturesque and the peasant women with their lovely, little, handmade, uh, white caps designed by them, embroidered by them, and lace made by them. Beautiful, little caps and they were all dressed in black, everybody was in black. And one day, the train had stopped – as it stopped many times, which is why it took so long – uh, in the field were some women, uh, working, and they came over toward the train and stood down below the bank and talked to the nurses while the train was stopped there. We had one very pretty nurse, a [big 08:50] blonde woman, one of the Philadelphia nurses, and one of these women took off her cap and brought it up and put it on the head of the pretty nurse. That was one of the really charming incident on the trip, which was rugged. And when we got to our, um, destination, I don't know the time of day but our base was, uh, the whole, entire resort village at the Château Lyon. It was in the mountains, uh, I think about 20 miles from Vichy. Beautiful country and a beautiful resorts, uh, uh, health springs. Uh, it was a spa, a lovely, uh, park, uh, a promenade. A, uh, what do I wanna say? Wh-, where in the, in the peace, days of peace, there would have been concerts. And, uh, each little spring was, had a little spring house with a, with a [inaudible 10:03]. The French kind of [inaudible 10:07] was there to recover after gorging all winter, they'd come there and drink the waters and feel better. Of course, it was more or less a [inaudible 10:17] and, of course, the hotels were empty. They were empty but they were not clean. The, uh, big hotel, the dominating hotel, the Hôtel Du Parc had been occupied by Algerian troops who had no idea, who had no idea how to live in a civilized way. The nurse [inaudible 10:43] enlisted men washed it down three times before they ever started using it. They had used the bathrooms for, uh, their toilets, it was a mess. Also, we had no food. [laughter] They finally put out some prunes. Nobody liked prunes [inaudible 11:03]. Anyhow, that – eventually we started to get settled in, started to get all our supplies, and people got their, got their assignments. And the nurses lived in a, um, pretentious, little hotel. I think the big hotels were all turned over to, uh, [inaudible 11:21]. But I think we, I think we had used all 35 hotels. Margaret Duncan: [11:26] You used the 35 hotels as a hospital [ward 11:27], uh, hospital wards, uh, hospital beds for the wounded? Clare R. Ellinwood: Well, yes, what else? Margaret Duncan: Yes. [11:42] Did they, uh, um, the, the wounded came in by, by ambulance from the, um, from the... Clare R. Ellinwood: Battlefield. Margaret Duncan: ...from the battlefield? Clare R. Ellinwood: Some, as I remember because I, I don't know. I didn't see very much about the, of the, uh, actual hospital operation, but my impression is that all these men [inaudible 12:08] field hospital or had some kind of care before they came because we were [inaudible 12:12] the front. Margaret Duncan: [12:17] And it probably functioned as what, what we call now, uh, a general hospital? Clare R. Ellinwood: Right. The, uh, the Hôtel Du Parc was a surgical hospital and the other buildings were various other things. I remember one building or hotel we always passed when we went to the little village part of it there [inaudible 12:44] was the venereal disease department and various buildings were in use for various things [inaudible 12:52] and various [inaudible]. And the nurses lived, nurse [inaudible] life – we had army cots and food was what we didn't have mostly. For breakfast, we'd have, um, a mush of some kind but not a drop of sugar [laughter] or a drop of milk. Once in a while, they'd have a canned fig on it. We were short of, uh, – it wasn't starvation [inaudible 13:20], but it certainly was less than [fun 13:24]. But, of course, we were gay and young and we were soon being invited out to dinner. There were, of course, wonderful restaurants. The food [inaudible 13:29]. There are several hotels that still functioned, which had not been given to the hospital [sniff] and the food was perfect and delicious to us who'd never had [inaudible 13:39] before. And, uh, there was a hard and fast military rule that any woman who had any social intercourse whatever with an enlisted man would be sent home. So we were very careful about having dinner with enlisted men, but that's the way we got enough to eat and, and had a lovely time because most of the enlisted men were our age and, uh, the enlisted men were largely University of Arizona – University of Pennsylvania students. Margaret Duncan: [14:16] Um, a couple of the things that, uh, I, I wanted to ask you about, uh, what, what was, uh, what demanded the greatest adjustment for you? Was it the, uh, the, the uniform or the, uh, lack of freedom or the regulations or, what was it that seemed to bother you the most there? Clare R. Ellinwood: Nothing bothered me at all. Margaret Duncan: Nothing. Oh, you were young and carefree and nothing bothered you. Clare R. Ellinwood: Nothing bothered me. [laughter] Margaret Duncan: [laughter] [14:45] Uh, you said earlier that your mother came overseas and that she was with, uh, what, well, 'cause she [inaudible]…. Clare R. Ellinwood: [Inaudible 14:51] She was with the YWCA in London and Liverpool. I think one of the chief things they did that – the unit there was made up of, um, American, Australian and, uh, New Zealand women. So mother met some splendid women of course. And one of the things they did was patrol the streets at night trying to keep American soldiers out of the hands of those terrible street women. It was an odd sort of service, but, uh, I think mother worked very hard at it. Margaret Duncan: Now your mother was also a member of, uh, Women's Overseas Service League here in Tucson. Clare R. Ellinwood: Right. She enjoyed the... Margaret Duncan: [Inaudible 15:33]. [15:34] What, what, and what was her name? Clare R. Ellinwood: [Kate Johansson 15:38]. Margaret Duncan: [15:39] Was, uh, was she one of the women who was instrumental in, um, forming the Women's Overseas Service League in Tucson? Clare R. Ellinwood: No, no. She was quite elderly by the time... Margaret Duncan: Oh. By the time it was formed. Clare R. Ellinwood: ...[inaudible 15:51] in her 70s or 80s. Margaret Duncan: Oh, I see. [15:56] Uh, when you were in France, did you ever have an opportunity to go to England to see your mother? Clare R. Ellinwood: Yes, I did. [Inaudible 16:03] with her. We were in London and Liverpool and, of course, by then she'd learned a lot about England, so – [inaudible 16:14]. Margaret Duncan: Now, your father was stationed in France. Clare R. Ellinwood: Yes, he was. Margaret Duncan: [16:20] Were you able to see him? Clare R. Ellinwood: Yes. After, after I enlisted, when I got [inaudible 16:24]. So, he, uh, he [inaudible 16:32] and enlisted and came in as a, he came in as an enlisted man in the medical corps, and he was with, uh, uh, [inaudible 16:49] What's the hospital? We were in a base hospital. [inaudible federal] hospital. Margaret Duncan: [17:00] Was he in a hospital? Clare R. Ellinwood: [It's just stupid of me 17:00] [inaudible]. Margaret Duncan: [17:00] Your father was in what kind of a hospital? Clare R. Ellinwood: Is it on? Margaret Duncan: Mm-hm. Clare R. Ellinwood: My father was in Evacuation Hospital [No. 1, 2 17:11] [inaudible]. Uh, he, uh, had never had anything to do with medicine or [inaudible 17:22] service, whatever. And so they put him doing carpentry at which he was quite adept. Uh, he loved people, he loved especially young people, and in the course of time, he got acquainted with the boys in the surgical ward and was very concerned because he felt that they weren't helped as much as they could and he felt that by arranging for individual case's apparatus to perhaps stretch or, uh, support, he could help. And he did. And got, uh, he got real recognition from the doctors and the nurses, not to mention the men. So that by the time I got there, he was kind of a [inaudible 18:20]. He had his own little, uh, what would you call it? He had a kitchen. He had a little building in the back somewhere where he, uh, uh, made breakfast, pancakes. He just kind of lived as he wanted to and helped a great deal in the surgical [ward 18:42]. I think it began with his concern about what the boys were fed, and one thing they were fed was potatoes, which, there was a good food. But they never were cooked enough. They never were hard enough. And he just [inaudible 18:55] [laughter] whatever, just raised Cain because the potatoes weren't cooked. So [inaudible 19:02] one thing and another, as I say, he became quite a special character. So that when I was there, the commanding officer, what's what this is, uh, had a car, had a driver, take one of the nurses above what her rank or specialty was, but three of us, and we toured the entire front, which was one of the areas which is having the heaviest fighting over the whole period of war. We [inaudible 19:33] out across this wide valley which had been populated and you cannot see one living thing, you wouldn't know it, not know that any human habitation had ever been there except part of it was stained. You could see where a town had been because the soil was different different where the fields had been. It was horrible. On the other side of the valley where the Ger-, uh, uh, emplacements, which we, some of which we went through. Many signs of Gott mit uns. It was, it was very spectacular. Some of the camouflage was still up in the trees and along the roads. And, uh, I think I stayed three days. I think I lost my suitcase with the few pretty things I'd been able to [laughter]...but I, in Château Pichon where they had lovely shops. But we had a very, so very pleasant [inaudible 20:28]. Found an old friend there from school days [inaudible 20:44]. But the, uh, uh, the, the, uh, place that Father made for himself from nothing and the lovely tour that we had in recognition of, that was the highlight of that visit. Margaret Duncan: [21:00] Uh, where were you on, um, November 11, Armistice Day? Clare R. Ellinwood: I was in Tours, which was, of course, very thrilling. Everywhere [inaudible 21:11] but, uh, [inaudible] the news that started was – ran like wildfire. Everyone swept into the streets. The same story everywhere, you know, but, uh, sad in a way 'cause all the women were in black and all the French men were in their old pale blue uniforms with their legs or arms gone. Nothing [inaudible 21:35]. So, so we Americans celebrated. Margaret Duncan: [21:44] And then it was shortly after that that, uh, how many months do you think it was after, uh, Armistice Day that you came back to the States? Clare R. Ellinwood: [21:57] Oh I don't know. Does it make a difference? Margaret Duncan: No. Just uh, you know, a few months. Clare R. Ellinwood: I think [inaudible 22:06] it must have been on to the next summer because, uh... Margaret Duncan: I see. It took a while to get things… Clare R. Ellinwood: [Inaudible 22:13]. Margaret Duncan: …yeah. Get things settled. Clare R. Ellinwood: Yes. I think it's probably six months at least. Margaret Duncan: Yeah. And then you came back, you came back to the States. [22:21] And where you did you stay in, uh, Philadelphia? Did you come back to Philadelphia? Clare R. Ellinwood: Well, briefly but that w-, [inaudible 22:30]. I don't think I was [inaudible 22:35] at all. I don't think I went any military place. I just got off the boat... Margaret Duncan: [Inaudible 22:42]. [laughter] [22:46] Let's see. Uh, how did you get out here to Arizona, to Tucson? Clare R. Ellinwood: Well, I finally married the man that I [laughter] followed to France, and, uh, he was in Arizona. He was born in Flagstaff. Margaret Duncan: Oh, I see. And that's, and then, uh, and then you came down here to Tucson. Clare R. Ellinwood: Uh, he was born in Flagstaff. Margaret Duncan: Oh I see. Clare R. Ellinwood: He never lived there. Margaret Duncan: Oh. Clare R. Ellinwood: He lived in [Inaudible 23:08]. We came here. Margaret Duncan: I see. And then, uh, uh, and then you, uh, lived here and you raised your family here. Clare R. Ellinwood: Right. Margaret Duncan: [23:20] How many children do you have? Clare R. Ellinwood: Three. Margaret Duncan: Oh you have three. Clare R. Ellinwood: And I, now I have, um, seven great-grandchildren. Uh, so I've lived in this house for 50 years. Margaret Duncan: Mm-hm. Clare R. Ellinwood: So my wandering came to an end. [laughter] Margaret Duncan: Your wandering came to an end at, uh… Clare R. Ellinwood: I, I don't think I, I think that kind of gives you a picture of, uh, certainly very different careers. It wasn't, uh, [inaudible 23:52] I contributed much to the war effort though somebody had to work in the office. I mean, uh, men were doing the work that I did, so it's, uh, a lot of people didn't [have 24:01] to do to anything very distinguished. Margaret Duncan: [Inaudible 24:04] the records are, are very important and that's, uh… Clare R. Ellinwood: We just sit on, sat on our apple crates and… [laughter] Margaret Duncan: [laughter] [24:14] Mm-hm. Uh, you said something about that your service sounded very frivolous but that, uh, you really did have some hardships, so why don't we talk a little bit about those? Clare R. Ellinwood: Yes, I must say I have, I had a very good time with lots of good friends and lots of good food and travel. I later went to Italy, uh, for two weeks with a friend with whom I'd enlisted with whom I'd served all that time. We each had a musette bag, which is about like a large purse today. [Inaudible 24:48] two weeks [inaudible] that much baggage so I learned something. And, um, just – tours in the middle of the beautiful terrain where all the historic castles of France are located and we visited them one at a time, most of, most of them without even, uh, um, guards or guides, deserted, everybo-, every man in France was either crippled or gone. So it was quite a special and privileged time. And that beautiful part of France. It's the loveliest part of France and, uh, and that was a, that was a really great experience. Margaret Duncan: But you said you also had some hardships, you had some cold winters and, uh… Clare R. Ellinwood: We had cold winters. It was hard to, uh, you know, couldn't get a bath, [laughter] uh, things like that. And we had to wear these terrible uniforms. Nothing that you could really call, uh, a hardship or [inaudible 25:58] but it certainly wasn't miserable or uncomfortable. But it certainly gave me a great impression of the nursing corps. The nurses were great. We, we had excellent, we had an excellent unit. Our commanding officer, Colonel Thomas H. Johnson, was a, uh, a professional, uh, military man, very able, very able, and very [fine 26:32]. And, uh, the director was Dr. Carnett, who was the head of the, uh, the ho-, the University of Pennsylvania Hospital, I think or, or, or the, he was, no [inaudible 26:45] the director. So – and we had – our doctors were all Philadelphia doctors and most of the nurses were Philadelphia nurses. So it was – and, in which people knew each other. I think it was a very unusual unit. We, it was not the [inaudible 27:02] of military, uh, life that you might expect. Of course, we were in a beautiful place. At first I was in a beautiful place, oh, Château Gaillard, it was a summer place as I said. Well that was lovely but I could – suddenly felt the fall come on. I realized there wasn't gonna be summer and, uh, up there in the hills. So I got a transfer to Tours to the chief surgeon's office and, uh, just the same kind of work. I never did anything but office work but, uh, I did live in two marvelous places. Uh, certainly, I never, I think I said that there were no hardships but there were hardships on the nurses. But for this reason, they were mostly Philadelphia nurses who had done private nursing and they lived in beautiful houses and they had to have service and all that sort of thing. And I think the way they lived was very difficult for them, not that anyone ever complained but I noticed a distinct change for the nurses not to mention it was much harder work, hard work. Margaret Duncan: Mm-hm. Well, I think, uh, wartime nursing is, is pretty much hard work. So they probably, uh,… Clare R. Ellinwood: And that big hospital and that big hotel, [inaudible 28:44]. A lot of steps [inaudible 28:55]. I think that's more than enough. /lj