Interview of Mary J. Ford on her service in the U.S. Army Nurse Corps during WWII Ruth Stewart: We are interviewing today Mary J. Ford, um, who is a member of the WOSL, San Antonio Unit, San Antonio, Texas. And this is January the 13th, 2004. She’s being interviewed by Ruth F. Stewart, assisted by Carol Habgood. [00:26] Mary, tell us a little bit about your early life, as you were growing up. Mary J. Ford: I was, um, born in a little town, Ambia, Indiana. My uh, my grandfather was quite a successful farmer. Um…he had a, a large farm and had three threshing rings. That’s pretty good in those days. And also, had a little hardware in this little town. And uh, then uh, when he died, my father took over the hardware, uh store. And uh, my mother inherited the farm. And this is something; my mother was a petite, quiet person. And my sister and I didn’t know until we were – many, many years later – that, uh, my grandfather hadn’t left Aunt Ida anything because of something she had done; and my mother gave her half of the farm… Ruth Stewart: That’s something. Mary J. Ford: …and, and my mother never said a word. And I’m sure if it had been me, I’d have told someone every other week, you know, that, “I gave my sister half the farm.” [laughter] Ruth Stewart: [laughter] Mary J. Ford: That was my mother, so… And uh, so then late-, later on, uh, during the Depression years… And my fa-, my father probably needed the money, she sold her half of the farm. I said I never wanted to know what she got for it, but it wasn’t much, I’m sure. But uh, my aunt saved that farm; and later on, left it to my sister and I. So… Ruth Stewart: Oh. Mary J. Ford: …which was very nice. So… Ruth Stewart: [2:08] So it came back to you? Mary J. Ford: Yes, mm-hm. [laughter] Ruth Stewart: Yeah. Mary J. Ford: And uh, so then, uh, throughout the years, my sister, uh, was four years older. And uh, uh, went to, um, Harper Hospital in Detroit, uh, to nurses’ training. And I had always, uh, in my mind, you know, thought that would be wonderful to be a nurse. And so, I, I couldn’t, uh, uh, when it came time for me to go into nursing [clearing throat] I couldn’t go into Harper because I wasn’t 18 until the 18th of October; and the class started in September. And so, some of my classmates from school were going into nurses’ training in Kankakee, Illinois, where we lived. And uh, so that’s where I went for the diploma program. So… Ruth Stewart: [3:06] And what did you think about your days in the nursing school? Mary J. Ford: Oh, uh, really terrific. Uh…they, uh, I, I had twice the time length of time in the operating room that, that you normally have, because the nun got sick that was in charge and they had a temporary person in there. And one of the, uh, and one of the nurses, one of the staff nurses got sick. And, and so, uh, I had, uh, a lot of time, which increased my interest. And when I, when I left training, I went to Harper Hospital to work in the operating room there. I was in the operating room for eight years at Harper Hospital in Detroit. So… It was quite an experience. A very busy operating room. We were running about 100 cases a day way back, way back then. [laughter] So… Ruth Stewart: [4:00] And when did you get interested in army? Mary J. Ford: Um, Harper Hospital, uh, in WWII, had a unit, the 17th General. And they were stationed at Dijon, uh, France. And uh, so at the beginning of WWII, the, the unit was activated, uh, the 17th General. And um, that’s, uh, how I became involved with that. Uh…in fact, uh, five, five or six nurses, uh, went with the unit. And that’s quite a draw on your staff in the operating room when the youngest nurse has been there about 2-1/2 years. So that’s pretty stable staff and we really, you know, we gave good service. And uh… But then there was a staging period up at Camp McCoy, Wisconsin, uh, for some time before they went to, to um, um, uh, Casablanca. So… Ruth Stewart: [5:05] You were with the unit when it went to Casablanca? Mary J. Ford: Oh yes, uh-huh. Ruth Stewart: [5:09] And what kind of, uh, service there… Mary J. Ford: We were up to Camp McCoy. It very was interesting. I think it was about a, a two days, two days and two night train trip, uh, over to, uh, Newport News, which is the [port 5:22] of many of our patients. It’s called Camp Patrick Henry. And people were saying that some woman sold that land to the government, you know, for that. We said, “She must have hated her son, because the mosquitos were so bad.” [laughter] So uh, we stayed there and, uh, and I think we were staged there, uh, for nine days. And then we left, uh, uh, and uh, went to um, um, uh, Casablanca. And uh, we sailed on the Empress of Scotland. It was a beautiful ship. And because of the size of it and it went so fast, we weren’t in a convoy. We didn’t have to zig-zag, that, that sort of thing. And uh, it had been previously called the Empress of Japan. But the British had changed the name to the Empress of Scotland. Ruth Stewart: Oh yeah. Mary J. Ford: And… But of course, it sounds glamorous, but some of those state rooms were, you know, about three decks high, about 40 in a row or something like that. But, [clearing throat] when they were assigning, assigning, the uh, the rooms, uh, places, you know, for you to go, uh, came along four to [inaudible 6:38] or [inaudible 6:40]. A small cabin was just two, for two. And everyone thought that was so wonderful. When you’d wake up in the middle of the night and your close friends are in there washing, you know, uh, rather than being in this big room, you know, uh… [laughter] Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Mary J. Ford: Oh my, it was very, very interesting. So, um… Ruth Stewart: [7:04] So how long did it take you, then to get… Mary J. Ford: Uh, we were uh… Ruth Stewart: …on the ship? Mary J. Ford: We’re so far back, now I have to review here all these notes, uh, that uh, um, we, uh, uh, eight days – eight days. Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Mary J. Ford: Uh-huh. And uh, so uh… And then, uh, traveling was very interesting. And the British are really pretty gung-ho about meals and things like that [treat us 7:37] for breakfast. [laughter] But uh, it went really very well. And uh, then [clearing throat] when we got to, uh, uh, Casablanca, there was a staging area outside of, uh, Casablanca – an old church. And actually, it was called the [Ghandi 7:58] Passage. Uh…it was named after someone who had been injured in some earlier war. Ruth Stewart: [8:06] And what is a staging area? Mary J. Ford: Um, it’s um, where we were held to – until we were to go – until we were to go forward. [clearing throat] Ruth Stewart: Okay. Mary J. Ford: …[inaudible 8:17] [clearing throat] Excuse me. They, uh – that we were waiting until the Sicilian Campaign was over before the, the allies went into, uh, Salerno. And uh, but that was – uh, so we were staged down there all that time; and we didn’t go in immediately, but very soon afterwards. Ruth Stewart: [8:41] Then you went to Salerno from there? Mary J. Ford: No, we, uh, we sailed into the Naples area; a port right next to Naples. [throat clearing] And uh, then uh, they, uh, Salerno had built this large hospital. It was a big – quite a big complex. I’ve forgotten how many acres. And uh, the, the British had arrived a few days before. And they had a couple of buildings. The uh, [knights 9:11] of somebody or other… The Italians had a building to take care of, of what they could do, uh, with their own people. And uh, which was very little, because they couldn’t get supplies. And uh, and then we had, uh, a couple buildings. And we had the pest house. And eventually, the British officers had been – I actually – it had been cleaned up, you know. Uh…but uh, as soon as they moved out, that was our-, the nurses’ quarters. And the British had, [clearing throat] the British had, uh, arrived before. And so, they had the nurses’ quarters. And we thought, “Oh dear”, you know. Well, in just a few days, we were happy that we didn’t have it. As long as the Germans had gas, they liked to bomb the port, you know, to bomb the ships to destroy the supplies. And of course, then our aircraft went up, uh, to shoot the, the whichever was flying over. And whether it, whether it was the Germans or our aircraft, went in the, um, the building and hit this British nurse in the [inaudible 10:20]. And she died. Ruth Stewart: Mm. Mary J. Ford: So, uh, uh, um… And here we’re up in the operating room. The windows looked out on the American cemetery there; and here, the British soldiers went, uh, and we told them [inaudible 10:38], you know. And then they’d pause; and then one-by-one they went over at [inaudible 10:44] to a grave and [inaudible 10:45] on that. We were really impressed. Ruth Stewart: Very impressive. Mary J. Ford: Very dramatic, so, so. Ruth Stewart: Yeah. Mary J. Ford: But, uh… And the building that the operating rooms were in was amusing. Like on the first floor there would be an operating room at the one end; [clearing throat] and then on the second floor, on the opposite end; on the third floor on the opposite end; on the fourth floor… So, if the, probably if building got bombed, they might save an operating room. So, so… Ruth Stewart: [11:17] What kind of patients were you getting there? Mary J. Ford: Uh…the [inaudible 11:22] had been in that building for a couple weeks before we got there. They later went up to Anzio. And um, uh, so they had been taking care of a large number of patients for that small group of people. It was amazing. And uh, so there were, uh, the war was going on, so your war injuries, you know… Ruth Stewart: [11:45] You had the combatants. Mary J. Ford: …when everyone was coming up from Southern Italy and, and uh, [Clark 11:49] was coming in to Salerno and moving their way up the beach. [clearing throat] And so, and war patients, so… Ruth Stewart: [12:01] From all of European fronts, was that it – your patients? Mary J. Ford: Well, Italy. Yeah. Ruth Stewart: Yeah. Just from Italy, though. Okay. Mary J. Ford: Yeah. So… [And started friendships 12:09] So… Ruth Stewart: Okay. Mary J. Ford: There were, there were – well, the war was going on up there, but we were coming up from this way. Ruth Stewart: [12:20] What were the major injuries that you were involved with? Mary J. Ford: Oh, we had everything, you know? From routine debridements to everything. But now, the ones, um, uh, chest and bellies and, and uh, everything, so… And uh, I was so impressed, uh, with, uh, this, uh, patient had been in, hadn’t been able to evacuate him for a while, because he had, uh, not only a hip [inaudible 12:51] because of his shoulder and his back also. And so, when they brought him in the op-, to take all the casts off and stuff like that, so there were maggots – which is fine [inaudible 13:05]. But there was so much damage, they weren’t able to save a leg… And uh… Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Mary J. Ford: So, we were a Detroit outfit and this boy was from Detroit. And so, uh, somebody talked to him that they weren’t going to be able to save the leg. And he said, “Well, I guess I’ll just have to go into [law 13:25] then.” You know, it was really very touching, you know. Ruth Stewart: [13:32] As a nurse, how did you feel about having to care for these patients that were so young and so injured? Mary J. Ford: I don’t know. You know, it’s amazing how you talk to them. Uh…you don’t talk down to them in any way, you would talk to them like you would talk to anybody from back home. And uh, so… They were, they were there to be taken care of and so… Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Mary J. Ford: But I must tell you when, before we got into the, the uh, uh, permanent place to live, they put us up in the auditorium of this big building. And I, I brought a picture along, because its – there were 111 women, cot after cot, roll after roll. [We were just solid 14:24], hardly could walk, you know. And uh, they tried to fix it so it would stagger, like head-to-feet, head-to-feet, you know. [laughter] But then on the wall looking down over the bay of Naples, we saw churches. That was beautiful, you know. But uh, when uh, the Germans started to come over to the hospitals to go down in the, to bomb the, the harbor and they made us go down in the tunnel, because if glass broke, you know, that wall…that would be very bad. And so, but then you went down in the tunnel and there were sand fleas and, and stuff like that, you know. You hated to go down there, so… [chuckle] Ruth Stewart: [15:13] And then when you moved into your permanent quarters, what were they? Mary J. Ford: We had to be in a, a, uh, a um, oh what do you call it – the pest house, where they had, they had contagious diseases. It was a regular three-story small building. And uh, my, my two friends and I were – happened to get, um, a utility room. And of course, it was an L-shaped utility room. And so, here there are three beds in there. Well, it was a little crowded. There was a dumb waiter, and someone had given me a German flag, so I put that over the dumb waiter. And uh, and then Edna, uh, knew someone down at the port. And the Germans had left some, some uh, wooden double deckers. And so, they – so she and her friend brought two up; and uh, and so, the lady and, uh, we put them back next to the wall that had windows. And uh, of course, naturally since Edna brought them, I got the upper deck. And… [chuckle] And so, that, that, saved us space. We had just that and one other bed. Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Mary J. Ford: And uh, but then when the, uh, it wasn’t too good to have the, you know, windows, cause the Germans would fly over that uh, when our own aircrafts would start spinning up, you know. You never know where the little pieces are going to go. So, you’re really supposed to go down to the tunnel. So… Ruth Stewart: [16:43] And what about your eating and, uh… Mary J. Ford: Um, when we first landed, uh, uh, that, that’s – all is cooked outside on the field stove. And then, we ate and, and would go through the – take care of our mess gear. And at that time, the Italians were still roaming all around the area, you know. And they would want whatever was left in your mess gear. And they… And you didn’t want them… You got a tin can, you know, and uh, stick it [inaudible 17:11] scrape it in… You didn’t want them to get your mess gear any dirtier than it was. But it was best for you to dump it in there when you got used to that, because, uh… And then there was a big, big brush that you put your mess gear in first soapy water, you know, big 50-gallon drums, you know. And two rinse ones. And uh, and, you better close it up when you did that to keep it clean for the next meal, so… [chuckle] And then afterwards, when we got settled, we had a regular mess hall, you know. And one of our doctors had been in, in, uh, the 17th General in WWI. And he was very interested in cooking, so he – and he was a surgeon, but he gave out lot of good tips, you know, about how to make things taste better, you now. Like add a little dry mustard to something, you know, different things like that, so… Ruth Stewart: [18:10] What kind of recreation then did you have there? Mary J. Ford: Well… Ruth Stewart: Other than viewing the bay of Naples? Mary J. Ford: They uh, um, after a short time, we were allowed to go down-, in downtown Naples. The first little section that was called the [romarot 18:24] section; then on downtown Naples, cause there was shopping. And there were, uh, the, they had, uh, what they call a PBS club, a bay section club down in a bank in, in downtown Naples. And then up on the hill, uh, uh, there was a lovely club, uh, with a beautiful view of the ocean and uh, and it was called the Orange Club, [inaudible 18:50] raunchy – the [garden of the arms 18:53] were… And uh, the food was good and uh, very nice. And so, it was downtown Naples and there was the club up in on the hill. But down here, uh, you know, we worked hard; and we would go out to dinner and stuff like that. We did a shortcut to go home, you know, [inaudible 19:16] to get home faster. [chuckle] You got to know Naples pretty well. Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Mm-hm. [19:22] And did you travel much in the area? Mary J. Ford: Uh…well later on, you know, when you had the quiet times and stuff like there was [inaudible 19:30] drive and, and uh, uh… Really, uh, other than, uh, site-seeing right around Naples and stuff like that. On up the hill a little ways, there was a marble, like a marble [davenport 19:50], you know. And uh, that had been a, uh, a space where people, when they were showing them Naples, they would bring them up in the hill to see the panorama of Naples. Ruth Stewart: Mm. Mary J. Ford: To see Naples, I guess the ultimate view. You can dive in, you know? [laughter] Uh…uh, you think we’re taking too much tape on… Ruth Stewart: No that’s, that’s okay. That’s fine. Mary J. Ford: Okay. Ruth Stewart: It’s good to hear about it. Mary J. Ford: And near right there, there was a monastery. And these monks had these rolls of woven, uh, you know, they, uh, made the yarn out of wool. And uh, so I went up there with two of our doctors one time; and uh, of course, I sat on the bench while they were taking tours, because I was not sure I would be allowed to go in. And uh, but… Ruth Stewart: [20:49] Why weren’t you allowed to go in? Mary J. Ford: Well it’s a monastery. Men, you know? Ruth Stewart: Oh, they…oh, I see. So, you didn’t get to see that. Mary J. Ford: And then later on, we had some friends on up the hill that had established a large hospital, the 300th General Hospital. Ruth Stewart: [21:15] How long were you in Naples area or in Italy? Mary J. Ford: I was in, uh, I had been there, uh, I don’t know about a year, maybe. They started, uh, uh, they were preparing the ships, you know, for Southern France. And uh, then uh, I don’t know whether you’re familiar with the 2nd Auxiliary Surgical Group. It’s an organization that had teams, like orthopedic, neuro, uh, all, all the different specialties. And then, uh, they supply the teams where they’re needed to the different little evac hospitals. And then these little evac hospitals, as the lines move up, they uh, leapfrog, you know. And the teams are pulled wherever they’re needed. And so, uh, when they were going to, when they were preparing for southern France, they sent half of the 2nd Auxiliary Surgical Group, um, up to France. And they placed them with teams from existing hospitals in Italy. So, when they called the 78th General Hospital for a team, uh, this wonderful surgeon said I’ve been sitting here tooling around. I want to see what’s going on. So, he selected a, uh, a very good surgeon with an assistant, a very good anesthesiologist, a very good nurse – me – and two very good OR techs. And uh, we went up and, uh, as a replacement team up there. And we were stationed, most of the, most of the time with the 94th Evac. And uh, usually when a team went out, they had their own tent and so forth. The team suggested, you know, uh, the surgeon, assistant, anesthesiologist, the nurse and two, uh, two corpsmen. And but, uh, but the, uh, nurses would, would have their own tents. Well since I was – it was just an usual situation, they just put me in with a, a neurosurgical team, uh, a nurse. And uh, they [inaudible 23:2. I was a nurse [inaudible 23:30]. Ruth Stewart: [23:32] And this was located where? Mary J. Ford: Um…up to the north. Ruth Stewart: [22:38] But in Italy? Mary J. Ford: Yes, yes. And see, the line was moving up. Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Mary J. Ford: And uh, so… Um…let’s see where could I give you an idea of where we were? Each time we would move, it would be a different – we call it the grapevine area or the, the dust bowl area – according to where we were stationed. And I know the first time when we moved, you hurried over. There was an Italian house, you’d hurry over with your dirty clothes. [Inaudible 24:13] And so, they were very friendly. But by the time you got back, so many people had pushed them, they weren’t so friendly. [laughter] Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Mary J. Ford: Oh my, so… After that, uh, the commander of that hospital was excellent. He was a wonderful commander. The only thing that we didn’t like about him, um, he and his 1st sergeant would get out to explore where they wanted to move next. He always wanted to be the most forward when they leapfrog you know. Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Mm-hm. But that was impressive then. Mary J. Ford: Oh yes, uh-huh. And then, um, uh, we always got the big cases. We never got routine debridements. They’d always give [Cal 25:02] like the big chests and bellies and things like that. And then, then as the other men would finish their little debridement, they’d come over and look over [Cal’s 25:11] shoulder to see what he was doing, you know. He was really very good. So, it was very nice. Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Mary J. Ford: And uh, then, uh, he wanted me to teach the boys more about, uh, just so they could really [inaudible 25:25] some up, scrubbing, because sometimes these cases lasted a long time. And uh, so, uh, in our spare time, if we had some time we’d like sit on the grass with a tablet and then I’d explain different closures, you know, so they’d understand it and… And then when I’d have them scrub, you go in and set up your stand with steel supplies and your instruments; and then you’d put all your drapes on top of that. That was, uh, that’s how you approach a big case. And with them, I always gave them, you know, a lot more time. When I’d scrub, I’d do it in a hurry. I’d be going, “Oh, I forgot some [shards 26:03]”, for a wire suture. And they’d say, “Oh what’s the matter sis? You forget something”, you know. [laughter] Ruth Stewart: Teasing you. Mary J. Ford: They liked to kid ya. [pause] I’m talking a lot. Ruth Stewart: That’s what this is all about. [26:26] So then you were with that surgical team… Mary J. Ford: Mm-hm. Ruth Stewart: …was that for the rest of your time there in Italy, or… Mary J. Ford: Then uh, um, after, um, uh, we moved – different times and… At one time we were moving to a new location in a, a convoy. Every time we moved, you know, we’d usually – it would require a crate or something, you know, that we could use for a bedside table for our tents and cot or something like that. And uh, and the colonel said that every time we moved, it took more trucks to move us. We had to get rid of some of those things. And so, we’re going along up the mountain. And whether it was from natural or bombing, or something like that, they, uh, some big rocks came down and blocked off the, uh, road. And so, we were held up till they got all, uh, uh, cleared away for us to move. And it just so happened there was a special service truck just behind us. It had a piano on it and the fellas were really having a good time, you know, entertaining us and stuff like that. And here you got a full truck load of, of, uh, women. Pretty soon, you know what’s going to happen – somebody’s gotta go to the john. So how do you handle that? So… Well, we handle that real easy. We huddled around in a circle and, and they used their own helmet, you know… [chuckle] Ruth Stewart: [laughter] Mary J. Ford: Oh my. Ruth Stewart: [27:59] What year was all this? Mary J. Ford: Well, ’43. Let’s see, uh, we were, uh, we arrived in, uh, in uh, Casablanca on the 15th of September – that’s ’43; and uh, then, uh, we were in Naples in October of ’43. When we, uh, when we, uh, went by boat, um, uh, to, um, from Oran 28:42] to, uh, Naples, it was a smaller ship. And uh, when, when we got within so far, so close to, uh to the, uh, to the shore – not that close. Uh…Germans [inaudible 29:01] down planes and, and were that close to, to bomb a ship, you know. So, they, they wouldn’t let us go on the top side, you know. Uh…so, but uh, for our own protection, of course. Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Mary J. Ford: Then uh, when we got there, we were able to get off in the barges and taken on in. But uh, several of the nurses had gone in and their pictures were in the paper going over the side of the ship with rope ladders. And there was a picture that looked just like me and, and everybody at home knew it was me. It wasn’t me. [laughter] Ruth Stewart: [laughter] So then, uh… Mary J. Ford: You asked about entertainment. In Naples, uh, they kept the opera going all the time, because that was good entertainment. And uh, it was really very dramatic, uh, to go down to an opera. And uh, of course, Butterfly was a very popular one, and so on. And uh, but before the opera started, they played the Nat-, National Anthem of all of the, all of our allies, you know. And you stood at attention, uh, while they played the American, the British, the, uh… I think there were five different, uh… The French, of course, had gone along with us at that time; and the, um, um, Germans. Ruth Stewart: Eventually, the China-, or yeah China… Mary J. Ford: No, no, no, no. They were in some other, you know, other part of the world, you know. But uh, anyhow, it was really very dramatic. And then, uh, that was – the music was pretty and, uh… And uh, when uh, uh, when they played [Umbel Dynos 30:53], you know, it was so pretty. The soldiers applauded, so… They stopped and repeated that area before they went on. Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Mary J. Ford: But uh, Naples… We visited Pompey. And uh, I never saw any of the pornographic stuff, you know, because, uh, I was traveling with a small group. And I knew it wasn’t in good taste for me to be there. So, I sat on some big stone while they toured the pornographic part of it. [chuckle] Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Mary J. Ford: So, uh… Ruth Stewart: [31:38] Did you ever regret not… Mary J. Ford: No. Ruth Stewart: …seeing what it was all about? Mary J. Ford: No, no, no. But it’s just amazing when you think that some of the early mosaic work on the floors and things like that in those early days. Ruth Stewart: [31:56] So how long were you in Italy? Mary J. Ford: Well, I, uh, let’s see. We got into Italy, um, in October of ’43 and I came home in October of ’45. Ruth Stewart: [32:13] Two years? Mary J. Ford: Two years. Gee I’m glad I wrote these notes down. I never would have remembered... Due to a good friend of mine who keeps good notes. [chuckle] But one time, it was during the end of the war, um, uh, right at the beginning, you know, uh... And uh, when I was leaving Naples to go up, uh, my mother died; and my sister, not realizing…utilizing Red Cross, you know, sending word – it was about two weeks before I heard about my mother’s death. And so, of course, my father wrote me and said, you know, that, uh, there was no need to come home, you know, that he was fine – this, that…. But then, uh, later on, my father was killed in an accident. Ruth Stewart: [33:18] So you lost both of them? Mary J. Ford: That was hard. Ruth Stewart: [33:21] And that was while you were gone? Mary J. Ford: Yes. Ruth Stewart: [33:28] So you spent the entire war there in Italy? Mary J. Ford: Uh-huh, yeah. Ruth Stewart: …till after the war in Europe was over? Mary J. Ford: I, I really am… Uh…it’s very interesting, uh, I went back for a second tour. This was after, after WWII. I was at home for a year and, uh, I went in the office of Percy Jones, uh, General Hospital in Cal-, uh, in Battle Creek, Michigan. And there was thing on the bulletin board for Italy. “Oh, this is for Italy”. So, I said, “My name [inaudible 34:03] with all the rest”, you know? I said, “Eileen, my good friend, she’ll want to go to”. “Well, she has to come over and sign her own name”, you know. [laughter] I go, “Eileen there’s a list on the bulletin board for Italy.” So… We went back to Italy for a tour of duty. Ruth Stewart: [34:18] Re-enlisted or… Mary J. Ford: No, no. We were still in the, the whole time, so… Ruth Stewart: Okay. [34:26] And what did you do then when you back to Italy? Mary J. Ford: Well, we were flying into the, the, uh, Livorno area – a Station Hospital, just a few miles south of Leghorn. And uh, what was, uh…operating room. No, uh, Eileen and I were both operating room nurses. And uh, the operating room staff was staffed at that time when we went in. And um, so uh, she was, um, put on the officer’s ward and I was in one of these things – it was like an old barracks. One section like [inaudible 35:03] surgeon; the next orthopedics; then next section…that way, you know. And then down here is the kitchen and, and uh, all the sort of stuff, so… And it was a busy time. And uh, so… And then, um, that time, I don’t really want to get into at this time, because we still haven’t finished the war yet. [chuckle] So… I don’t know what else I could tell ya about up north – northern, uh Italy. Uh…I have some pictures in here crossing a pontoon bridge and, uh, over Coal River – pretty wide river. Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Mary J. Ford: And uh, uh, but it was just more of being busy, you know. And uh, when we were in this one area, uh, the uh… I was dating a fella and he thought our team shou-, uh, we should take them… And we were just north of Florence at that time. And that uh, they like to go in for an evening at the officer’s club? Fine. Ruth Stewart: [36:19] Was this in your first tour there? Mary J. Ford: During the war, yeah. We’re back to the war. Ruth Stewart: Yeah. Mary J. Ford: So, uh, the drive in the mountainous area with cats’ eyes and uh, and two of these men on our team had new babies they hadn’t seen; and they were interested in staying in good health. And they, they were really scared, you know, really. And uh, uh, they said they enjoyed the evening, but they didn’t want to go back in anymore. [chuckle] Ruth Stewart: Yeah. Mary J. Ford: We’re back to uh, when, when we – I missed telling about the train trip from uh, from uh, the staging area of Casablanca to go up to, uh, through Rabat and to Oran. And we needed to go to Naples. Well, so before we got on – the day before, we went down and scrubbed the compartments we were going to sleep in. And supposedly, there was going to be four to a compartment; but there was five in our tent. And so, they, uh…we were figuring how we’re going to do this. Then fortunately, one of our tent mates got sick. And uh, so there were four of us. And we put barracks bags underneath the ten-, uh, cots in the center, so we could stretch across that way the floor, which was comfortable. And then, it was really amazing, uh, every time anybody wanted to wash up a little bit, you know, they got a helmet, you know, and went in. And uh, cause there was no other place to clean up. Just about that time, a train would come along, you know. [laughter] Oh my, so it was interesting. And then while traveling on the train, the train would stop; and they would prepare the food on a field stove and uh, we would eat anyplace, you know – on the rails or anyplace where we wanted to eat. And then we’d clean up our mess there and get back on the train again. And uh, oh, one night, uh, a [Betty Hughes 38:38] had to go to the bathroom. And she got up and she came back in and she said, “There’s a, there’s cow on the train”. You know, I don’t know how they got that cow on the train, but there was a Berber there in his brown, you know, striped robe; and had a gun. And he and his cow were down at the end of our thing. Well, she can’t go that way; and there’s no connection with the next thing. You’d have to climb over things to get into the next thing. And uh, finally, they came to a stop and they, uh, and they got that cow and the, and the Berber off the train. Can you imag-, I don’t know how he got on by himself. [laughter] Ruth Stewart: [laughter] Interesting, interesting. Mary J. Ford: Yeah, with a gun, you know. Ruth Stewart: Yeah. Mary J. Ford: Berber from the mountains, so… There’s so much I don’t know about, you know, the difference, like the Berber’s, I’m not familiar with their background, but they are mountain troops, I know. Ruth Stewart: They were fighting forces then. Mary J. Ford: I don’t know what they were. I don’t know what it was. I don’t know what he was doing in there. [laughter] So… Oh my. Ruth Stewart: You thought maybe the cow was to provide you milk for your meals. Mary J. Ford: That cow was, uh, was an expensive thing for him, you know. So… Ruth Stewart: His only asset. Mary J. Ford: Mm-hm. Ruth Stewart: Yeah. [40:09] So then when you came back in October of ’45, you stayed in the army… Mary J. Ford: Mm-hm. Ruth Stewart: And… Mary J. Ford: We had signed a paper of somebody that wanted to stay in or not, you know. And I thought, well, I wasn’t in any hurry to, to get out because when, when uh, when I left Harper, you know, we were doing 100 cases a day. And I thought I’ll just stay in the army a little while and see what happens. So, uh, uh, they gave us 45 days leave, not accountable to leave time. And uh, and then I had orders to go to Percy Jones. And uh, that’s – I was there for a year; and that’s when I saw the note on the bulletin board to go back to Italy. So… Ruth Stewart: [40:56] And what was the difference in being there in Italy during the war versus after the war? Mary J. Ford: Well, what was – we were just doing our normal work, you know, like taking care of patients in a hospital. So… Ruth Stewart: [41:06] You didn’t have any – feel any real difference there? Mary J. Ford: No, uh-uh. But, uh, you know. Uh…it’s just a lot of in our off-duty time to do more things – to see, uh, Italy. Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Mary J. Ford: It was interesting, um, about when it came time, uh, to uh, for the phase out campaign when they were going to close the hospital, they sent, uh, three nurses down from Germany to help us do this. Well, they’d never been to Italy before. So, uh, you know we could take some time off. And uh, so, I said, “Let’s go down so we can take a train to Rome and have a few hours there before we catch the next train down the Naples”, uh, cause I knew Naples pretty well, you know. Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Mary J. Ford: And uh, so that was wonderful. Uh…we, uh, we had those times and went out to the Vatican and, and uh, so I told this guy, I said, “Now I want these girls to see as much as they can in a short period of time. So, uh, try to do that.” So, he’d go – start on the wonders of Italy, you know. And I’d have to go [slapping sound], you know. It was just killing me to think that he could dwell on these wonderful things he wanted to tell everybody about, uh… Ruth Stewart: [42:33] Did you speak Italian? Mary J. Ford: No…enough. You, you alwa-, in another country you go to, you know, your hair is too curly or too ricci; or you’re multi pesante – you look too large, you know, too heavy. And uh, those basic things. And where’s the gabinetto – where’s the john, you know? All basic things, so… Ruth Stewart: [laughter] Okay, and so how long were you in the service then, totally? Mary J. Ford: Twenty years, uh-huh. I was so old when I went in, I had to get out at 20 years as a major. And so, I, I knew I, that wasn’t enough for me to live on, so I, um… Ruth Stewart: [43:12] What year was that? Mary J. Ford: Uh…in, uh, um, uh, Sept-, uh, it was, um, um, uh, ’40-, uh, ’62. You know, 20 years. Ruth Stewart: [43:42] ’42 to 62’? Mary J. Ford: Uh-huh, yeah, mm-hm. So… Ruth Stewart: Okay. Mary J. Ford: And uh, and then, uh, that’s when I got out. And so, I went to Europe and, uh, vacationed, uh, for several months. It was cheap living, you know, at that time. And wonderful. I couldn’t have done it at a better time. Ruth Stewart: [44:07] You mean in Italy? Mary J. Ford: In Italy, uh-huh. Ruth Stewart: [44:09] You vacationed there before you came home? Mary J. Ford: Italy and Germany, uh-huh. And uh, some friends of mine were up in Germany. And uh, a colonel and his wife that I had had duty with – and I left extra luggage with them and I would take off to different places. And uh, I would… But then when I came back, I was, uh, visiting at home and, uh, and visiting some friends. And uh, a former chief nurse of mine was a chief nurse at Brooke. She asked me what I was going to do. And I said, “Well, I was going to get a job someplace.” They had asked me to come back to Harper to the operating room, uh, because I was a good operating nurse. [laughter] Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Mary J. Ford: And uh, so I thought now I have to tell’m nicely, uh, because I might need to come back. And I said, “I’m…I was thinking of terms of a more moderate climate.” Well, it so happened it worked out that, that they had a vacancy for a civilian operating nurse at Brooke. And uh, so I called [Seymour 45:16]. He said, “Go over and fill out the forms”. And I worked 7 years there in the operating room as a, as a civil service. And then they, uh, changed the, uh, supply job to a civilian; and would I go… And uh, and uh, “Oh sure”, I said. “No call, no shift duty”, uh, uh, the [status 45:32] was better. [laughter] And the operating nurses were so happy that I went because one of those would’ve had to have gone had I objected. So… So, it was, uh, so 12 years in, uh… So actually, 40 years in nursing; 32 were in the operating room. Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Notable career. You really liked the operating room. Mary J. Ford: Oh yeah. Ruth Stewart: The excitement of it or the speed of it or… Mary J. Ford: Well, you’re good. You’re good in what you do… Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Mary J. Ford: …and you know what to do. Uh, we, we, we never really finished up the, uh, uh, the WWII phase. When it was come time to come home, um, I, uh, I have a snapshot of some waiver to get a hop down to Naples to, to, um, to be able to get a…go on to Casablanca to go on home. And so, we were there a few days. And uh, uh, the uh, of course we were in full uniforms. And it was hot in southern Italy at that time. And so, uh, they said, well we’d would like to go to, uh, Capri to go to the, uh, I don’t know what we’ll find. So… We went over to Capri just for the day. And uh, uh, now of course they use the hydro falls to go over. It’s easier. But then it was, you know, rough. And uh, so uh, this nurse I was traveling with got a little seasick. And uh, you know, when you get over there, you go on to get, uh, small like a rowboat-type thing to go down the Blue Grotto. Have you been to Italy? Ruth Stewart: Not to those places. Mary J. Ford: Okay. And so, uh, uh, you got…you had the opening to go into this, uh, Blue Grotto. And then you wait for the proper waive. And so, you duck, and you go in. And so, sometimes some of these wealthy tourists are traveling and if they get splashed with water and they might be a little indignant, so the uh, the fellow who runs the, the, the boat will say, “You’ve been blessed”, you know. And uh, that makes them feel happy that they get blessed. Well, this friend of mine, she was so seasick, she blessed the Blue Grotto. [laughter] Ruth Stewart: [laughter] Mary J. Ford: Then when we got off, uh, our flight to go to Casablanca, we were off loaded there for several days because they were bringing prisoners of wa-, uh, fellas who had been prisoners of war, um, and uh, so they were off loading us for them to get home, to their, uh.… And I have a picture of uh, some of these fellas. I can’t think of anything right now. Ruth Stewart: [48:53] Okay then, uh, what about your time servicing combatants that you had for two years in Italy – with, uh, you taking care of the soldiers and… Mary J. Ford: Well actually you scrub with a team, you know. Ruth Stewart: [49:10] Yeah, you’re working with a scrub team, so you didn’t have, uh, the same kind of contact with the soldiers as you might have had if you’d been in their post-surgical floor? Mary J. Ford: No. But you usually wonder around, you know, talked with them afterwards. Ruth Stewart: [49:27] You did? Mary J. Ford: Yeah, yeah. Mm-hm. So… Ruth Stewart: [49:31] Did your work there, your experience there, uh, affect you in any way about your view of war? Mary J. Ford: No, mm-mm. We didn’t start it. Look what Hitler did, uh, you know, people were killed. I think when someone tried to kill him, he had five thou-, you know, when they had that fort falling in on him? I think that, uh, he had 5,000 people killed – was the penalty for that. He wasn’t a very good man. So… Ruth Stewart: [50:10] Then when you came back here to Brooke Army Medical Center, did you, as a civilian, did you join any veteran’s organizations? Mary J. Ford: Um… Really not at that time. It was sometime before I joined the American Legion. And there were so many women in it, you know, they said, “You will join”. So, we joined. [laughter] But uh, no at that time they had a very active operating room, uh, uh, organization, uh, operating nurses at that time; and you really enjoyed going. They had good people speaking. And uh, one I’ve never forgotten. I think his name was Dr. Glass. He’s the foremost authority on snake bites in the country. He’s dead now. And uh, but he, uh, was really terrific in lectures and pictures and what to do and all that sort of stuff. So… Ruth Stewart: So, you’ve had a very interesting and rewarding career it sounds like. Mary J. Ford: Well it seems like, um, every place you were stationed, um, and you’re leaving, you, you’re sad at leaving, you know. You hate to go. And then, you venture to some new place and uh, and uh, you’re loving that. Sometimes you go, you’re sad leaving, so… Ruth Stewart: Well this has been very, very interesting information and I certainly thank you for your time in doing this, Mary. /al