Interview of retired Colonel Eleanor M. Carey on her U.S. Air Force career and her service in the Vietnam War Ruth Stewart: This is an interview with Eleanor M. Carey in San Antonio, Texas, on March 26, 19 – oh, 2007. Uh, interviewers are Ruth Stewart and Patricia Martin. [0:21] Ellie, start in by telling us about your early life, where you were born and where you grew up. Eleanor Carey: Okay, I was born in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania. I was the youngest, the last child that was born. And, um, we – my family moved to a little town called Avoca, Pennsylvania. You know, at that time, of course, um, they were worried about, my mother worried about him, you know, going to work a long distance and stuff like that so, um, they decided to move up closer to his work. And, um, we, uh, so we went there when I was just, I wa-, I was not, I was in sch-, in school [inaudible 1:08] the 1st grade in that little town. And, uh, it was Avoca, A-v-o-c-a, Pennsylvania, and, um, that was it. It was a ni-, it’s a nice little town. It’s still there, you know, and, and they’re not sure that they know me anymore but it’s still – and, uh, [throat clearing] so I went to a parochial school there and, uh, a high school in another city. My mother sent me to the high school, the catholic high school there. And then from there I went to Mercy Hospital School of Nursing and, uh. Ruth Stewart: [1:45] What, what made you decide to go into nursing? Eleanor Carey: One of the things I thought, uh, it was something that – um, I felt that I would like to do something. You know, be, be something. Be, be somewhere and be something and stuff like that. And I guess that was what I was thinking about. And my, my father and my mother supported me in that and my brothers. Ruth Stewart: It was an opportunity for a career. Eleanor Carey: Yeah. And, uh, and, uh, one, of course, one – I had another, one sister. That was enough sisters. [chuckle] Ruth Stewart: [2:28] And then so you went to Mercy Hospital? Eleanor Carey: Mercy Hospital School of Nursing. Ruth Stewart: [2:31] And that was a 3-year diploma? Eleanor Carey: That was a 2-year… Ruth Stewart: Okay. Eleanor Carey: Uh, 3 years, I guess, diploma. Yeah. Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Eleanor Carey: And they wiped out those anymore. And that’s good, I think they need nursing put actually in the learning field instead of just all, you know… Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Eleanor Carey: …creeping along. But anyhow, I got – I then went, um, I went, I went in the air force. [phone ringing] Oh, that’s me. You want to give me a call and tell them I’ll get them, uh, get a message. Thank you. Um, my, uh, we were talking about it [phone ringing] and, uh, I, I really wanted to do something. And I thought I’m in this little town and, um, I thought, well jeepers, I don’t know what to do. And then I finally decided and I said to my, my father I think I’d like to go to the, into the air force. And he said, well, you know, it’s your choice, but, uh, remember, you know, that, that, that’s going to be tough and so forth and so on. And he knew that I knew he would be, he would be, he would say [inaudible 03:45] I was think-, thinking about. And so they, I finally got in, um, I got in, went to school there. It was about 3 years I guess it was, or 3 or 4 years. Patricia Martin: [3:58] This was at Mercy Hospital? Eleanor Carey: That was at Mercy Hospital, yeah. And so I got all the rudimentary stuff there, you know. And when I decided I wanted to go into the air force – um, I had heard them flying over and stuff like that and I’d seen some of them and I thought, well, why not me? You know, ‘cause I, I don’t have any, I’m free [inaudible 4:18]. You know, I’m… Patricia Martin: Mm-hm. Eleanor Carey: So I told my mother and dad and, uh, they said – well, they weren’t too happy about it. My mother wasn’t too happy. My father was a little more, he thought it was better. He said okay. He said now I have – he – my, 2 of my older brothers were in the marines and [chuckle] so he told people, you know, I have 2 sons in the marines and, and 1 daughter in the, in the air force. He said I don’t know where, what, which way to turn. Ruth Stewart: [4:52] We were interrupted there for a minute, Ellie, but you were talking about your parents concern about your going into the military, but they finally agreed to that? Eleanor Carey: Oh yes. Ruth Stewart: Okay Eleanor Carey: Mm-hm, yeah. Ruth Stewart: They, they agreed to… Eleanor Carey: That’s right. Ruth Stewart: You could join your 2 brothers in the military. Eleanor Carey: I cou-, I could join. And they would say, uh, you know, my father said, well, I have a daughter. You guys can’t, you know, take care of that, you know. He said ‘cause most of them had men in the, in the military at the time. And he said, well, I have that daughter over there, so. And then I went to Vietnam. [chuckle] Ruth Stewart: Hm. [5:27] Well, where did you go first in the air force? Eleanor Carey: Uh, we – I went in, um, I’m trying to, um, well, I went in, in ’55, in October of ’55, so 13th of October I was sworn in there and, um, I, I kept going. I was a – okay, I think I’ll tell you my medals and stuff like this. Patricia Martin: We’ve got all that. Eleanor Carey: Oh, okay. Patricia Martin: So we’ll just… Eleanor Carey: Yeah. Patricia Martin: We’ll fill that in later. Eleanor Carey: Oh, okay. And what, what do we know and we were thinking about what? I lost my train of thought. Patricia Martin: [6:08] Where, where were you first stationed? Eleanor Carey: Oh, in Fort, in, not in Fort, that’s, which is – uh, what’s the name of that place? Patricia Martin: Okay, that’s okay, but… Eleanor Carey: In Beirut. I, I went to Beirut, Lebanon. Patricia Martin: Beirut. Eleanor Carey: Yeah, mm-hm. Patricia Martin: It was your first assignment… Eleanor Carey: That was my first assignment. Patricia Martin: …after, after your… Eleanor Carey: Indoctrination and so forth. Patricia Martin: Yeah, okay. Eleanor Carey: Rooty tooty with Bei-, in Beirut as we called it. [chuckle] Ruth Stewart: [6:38] And what was it like as an assignment in, in Beirut? What did you do as a nurse there? Eleanor Carey: I was on the, I was on the, uh – I, I didn’t like doing, uh – it was with children or something, but I – it was ordinary work. It was, um, it was the – we took care of the children and we took care of the families in some con-, conditions and in some, most places, um. And Bei-, Beirut was, Berec was, Beirut was really civilized, you know, and, uh, so that they, they were up with our brand of medicine, you know. Th-, they taught our medicine. Ruth Stewart: Pretty modern. Eleanor Carey: Yeah. Things like that. And then we went to Vietnam some time later. Ruth Stewart: [7:27] From Beirut you…? Eleanor Carey: Uh, no. I went later. Ruth Stewart: We’re moving on after our second interruption on this tape in hope that we can continue okay now. You were talking about what you were doing in nursing in Beirut. You were doing general duty with pediatrics. Eleanor Carey: General, general duty, general duty nursing. And from there I volunteered for Vietnam. Ruth Stewart: Okay. Eleanor Carey: And, uh. Ruth Stewart: Right while you were at Beirut. Eleanor Carey: Mm-hm, yeah. Well, I’d been someplace, there was someplace other than that and I can’t remember, but it was after that. It was after Beirut. Ruth Stewart: Okay. [8:06] And in Vietnam then what were you, what was your role there? Eleanor Carey: I went to Vietnam. I was a general duty nurse. Um, and again, I wish I had those papers ‘cause – I will send you one as soon as I can get one if I can locate the original, you know, uh, ‘cause that has a whole about, about 5, about 5 sheets of information. But I was in Vietnam and, you know, um, it changed my way of thinking sometimes. Because, you know, we go around, I’m assuming I did the right thing and I’m assuming that some places somebody is going to feed me or, you know, all these things and when I look at the world [inaudible 8:50], boy, there’s a whole difference. Those little kids had – so many were mal-, they were malnourished under our standards and, um, a lot of’m had very serious lesions, uh. We weren’t sure about what it was from but it was, there were a lot of lesions and there was, they were deep, kind of deep. And, of course, they’d clean the skin and or they debride the skin. And god knows where they lived ‘cause we never did get – we got outside some of the places, but not ever… Ruth Stewart: [9:27] So you were taking care of the Vietnamese local people… Eleanor Carey: Uh, yes. Ruth Stewart: …as well as our soldiers? Eleanor Carey: Oh yeah, yeah. Well, we called, we called it medcap. We’d go out to the villages and that we feel was part of our, of what we should be doing over there, okay, um, because nothing makes it – you know, if our soldiers come out and get shot at every time that they do anything like that, uh, that we wanted those people on our side to know that we were not mean-spirited and we would like to help them. And one way that we did this for the children [inaudible 10:11] and getting their lesions cleaned off, but the problem that we had was they didn’t know what soap was like, soap was like. And, uh, we had – I remember calling – uh, writing to my sister saying send some, send some soap. And they were, uh, one of, one of my friends, um, she was telling her niece about it, you know, get some soap out there and they, they were high school kids so they had some-, they found somebody that would give them the music and they had a dance, a soap dance [chuckle] and would take so many bars of soap for them to get in and all that. I thought that was really, really neat, you know, and… Ruth Stewart: [10:57] These were high school kids then? Eleanor Carey: They were high school kids, yeah. And they did it very, very [inaudible 11:01], you know. And, uh, I have a, I have a large picture and I, I thought maybe that he had it, uh, that I, I think, I think mine is over there in Pennsylvania. And I’m going over pretty soon and if I have the picture that I hope, uh, I will be glad to give it to you. Ruth Stewart: Well, we would copy it and give it back… Eleanor Carey: Yeah. Ruth Stewart: …if your nephew wants the original. Eleanor Carey: Oh yeah. But this is one and this we’re in I guess, you know, how latrines with no doors on it, you know, was back, and so we would be sitting there, we would be sitting there with a child or something. And I had, I was cleaning this child’s arm from all the stuff he had on it, you know, and this other, it was a perfect thing he’s there, you know, and this other little kid is looking and he’s kind of scared but he kept getting close to it, you know, and it was just such a wonderful picture and it’s a large one, so. Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Eleanor Carey: I will try to retrieve that for you. Patricia Martin: [12:08] You were a flight nurse when…? Eleanor Carey: Yes, uh-huh. Patricia Martin: …you were over there? Eleanor Carey: Yeah, uh-huh. Patricia Martin: [12:11] So you were actually on the aircraft? Eleanor Carey: Oh yes, mm-hm, mm-hm. We had, um, [inaudible 12:19] uh, yeah, I was in, uh, nursing administration for 8 years and then flight nurse for 7 years. And I would like to have gotten, you know, kept going from there, but, uh, I’m, I’m not – no, I’m not going to put what I say. Turn it off and I’ll [inaudible 12:42] ‘cause I don’t want to be nasty. Patricia Martin: [12:44] Tending to soldiers on the airplanes like after they were evacuated, taking them? Eleanor Carey: Yes, oh yeah, oh yeah. Air evac. That was the biggest thing that happened in that war because we got, we were able to get people right off the, you know, um, we could go in. We could fly in as long as we got enough flight, you know, enough, um – what do I want to say? The length, the, the runway, you know, how it would be. And, and if it was an emergency, uh, boy, we could hit that, hit that thing and go off again. But we – it was a wonderful experience and I, I just thought it was, it was great. And I think that was the, at that time, the Second World War maybe, maybe had a few, but this war really got, there was a lot of airplane, aircraft and that was good. And the, but the great day, one of the great days, I had a few, more than one, and I’m thinking about these days and I’m going to write a letter or a note. Uh, the man that is trying to get into the, go into the White House, um, um, what’s, what’s his name? Senator McQuail? Ruth Stewart: [14:11] McCain? Eleanor Carey: McCain, Senator McCain. I escorted Senator McCain when they, when they, at the time when there was an exchange of prisoners of war kind of a thing, you know. And so they were put out in different groups because depending on where they were going, you know. And I can remember our commander saying to us that day when they were all set up to, you know, get them and he said do it flawlessly ‘cause the whole country will be watching you. [chuckle] And it was wonderful. So we got these kids, these men, you know, and, and McCain was one of them I escorted part of the way. We would escort part of the way so they would get, so somebody else would – there was a lot of people outside the fence, they were, we, and they were yelling at them like asking if they know so-and-so and on and on and that was difficult. We had been briefed earlier on what we should, should do and not do, you know. And one thing was, uh, uh, they, never ask them what they wanted to eat because they didn’t have that before, you know. So we would say, well, would you like cream of chicken or something or would you like…? Ruth Stewart: Give them a choice, but not… Eleanor Carey: Yeah. Give them the choices. Ruth Stewart: …open-ended. Eleanor Carey: Sure, yeah, mm-hm. And, um, so it was, it was very, very interesting. And there was one young kid, he, he must have been, he looked like he was 18 or 19. I know he was young. And I remember him so much too because I was up near the cabin and, during the, during the flying and he came up and he put his arms around me and he said “I’ll always remember you ‘cause [inaudible 16:06] you’re taking me home.” And I wanted to cry, you know. It was wonderful, you know, so. We thought that was [inaudible 16:15]. Ruth Stewart: [16:15] So you were on flight duty for 7 years then. Eleanor Carey: Yes, uh-huh. Ruth Stewart: [16:19] Out of Vietnam the whole, that whole – well, it wouldn’t have been the whole time. Eleanor Carey: No, no. Ruth Stewart: [16:24] It was back here then from after that? Eleanor Carey: Well, yeah. But, um, no. I was, I was off status for a while after that time, yeah. Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Eleanor Carey: Oh, I would have stayed on it forever. [chuckle] Patricia Martin: [16:39] You, you retired from San Francisco area? Eleanor Carey: No. Not San Francisco. Patricia Martin: [16:49] Where was your last duty station? Eleanor Carey: Oh lord. Where was my last duty station? Flight nurses [inaudible 16:55]. um, my separation date was 1979, October 31, and that’s when I separated. [throat clearing] And my, do you want me to read my…? Ruth Stewart: No, that’s all right. We’ll fill, we can fill that in later. We want to get your words… Eleanor Carey: Yeah. Ruth Stewart: …at this point… Eleanor Carey: Mm-hm. Ruth Stewart: …first. [17:21] And after you came back from Vietnam, when did you, how did you feel in leaving Viet-, how did you, how did you live in Vietnam? We haven’t covered that. How did you…? Eleanor Carey: Live there? Ruth Stewart: …as an air force nurse live there? Eleanor Carey: Okay, yes. Um, we lived there and we were, uh – when I, we first got, I first got there, I came off the flight line. I forget where, [coughing] where I was when I went, I went. Oh, I – well, I went from there someplace and went there and so I got, I got a C-30, C-130 I guess it was and I got a hit, I got a ride on one of those aircraft, you know. And then they dropped me off and I had to find somebody else to take me someplace. And I had, uh, I talked to the people that were there and they did very well and I was asking, well, where can I, you know, where can I spend the night, you know? And they told me where the flight nurses usually slept, you know, and so I got a place there. And in the meantime, at the same time, I was going in my summer uniform with my [inaudible 18:41] shoes, you know, and I was dying to get out of this so I could get a shower. And I never knew that a shower was so wonderful [chuckling] until I got there. And, um, so then I, I was told that I had, um, I had my – oh, what do I want to say? I, I [coughing] I was going to another, another place. Can you turn it off for a minute? Okay, if you don’t mind. And, uh, I went, I was going to, um, I was going to Vietnam I guess. Did we close that and cover that one? Yeah. Ruth Stewart: No. Patricia Martin: [19:24] You mentioned earlier that you had been at Cam Ranh Bay? Eleanor Carey: Oh, Cam Ranh Bay. Yeah. That was, that was one of the places, yeah. And so I got to Cam Ranh and found my friends. And I had, uh, my, my new chief, my chief nurse and she was a really neat lady and the first thing she did when I arrived there she took me to a party. [chuckle] And I thought that was, you know, that was the right idea, you know. And once I got sorted, sorted out what we were living in, we lived in tents for a little bit. And, um, the – oh, and the VIPs always came here, you know, for some reason and [coughing] they’d always tell us how [inaudible 20:06], you know, [inaudible 20:08]. And we didn’t do that, of course, somebody else went in and did that for us. And so then we were, uh, I was, um, let’s see, I was there and I took, um… Ruth Stewart: [20:24] Where did you eat when you lived in these tents? Eleanor Carey: Well, depended on the tents, um, they would usually have a mess hall someplace. Ruth Stewart: The mess hall. Eleanor Carey: Yeah. Ruth Stewart: Okay. Eleanor Carey: Yeah. It was, ‘cause we were almost transits at that point, you know, because – and so [inaudible 20:39]. Ruth Stewart: [20:39] And you had local people that took care of all your, your basic… Eleanor Carey: Oh sure. Ruth Stewart: …chores and all that… Eleanor Carey: Sure, mm-hm. Ruth Stewart: …sort of thing. Eleanor Carey: Yeah. [inaudible 20:47]. Ruth Stewart: [20:47] How did you like the Vietnamese people that you interacted with? Eleanor Carey: I, I was just amazed at them because I thought that, um, they were, they were poor. [coughing] Excuse me. But it seemed that they had a lightheartedness also at the same time, you know, because they, they [inaudible 21:13]. And they wore these long, you know, [inaudible 21:16]. And, uh, they would, but they were very good in helping us. Um, and we would talk to the mama san, you know. And mama san would get our, our underwear and stuff out and we had to watch them because they might, you might lose some underwear, you know, so. You always had some lingerie [inaudible 21:38]. But I thought the Vietnamese, uh, [coughing] the ones that I had contact with were very nice. They tried to learn our language and they would learn a little bit of this and a little bit of that and they would ask where were we from. Uh, and I think they thought everybody was from New York. But, you know, they were, they were anxious and we were trying to collect some money and I guess we did it too [inaudible 22:10] because they didn’t have, as far as I knew at that point, they didn’t have any education processes. I mean, you know, like we have regular, uh, um, [inaudible 22:24]. Ruth Stewart: Schooling. Eleanor Carey: Schooling rather, our schooling. But, um, we collected some money to put one of the children, um, at least get them started in his education. And one, [chuckle] one of my friends who had a few drinks one night and she was talking about this and her tears were rolling down, these poor little children, you know. [chuckle] So we said, yeah, every one of us, you know, felt the same way. Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Eleanor Carey: Yeah. Ruth Stewart: [22:51] So then you left Vietnam eventually. Eleanor Carey: Mm-hm. Ruth Stewart: [22:55] And from where did you go there? Eleanor Carey: Oh lord. Where did I go after Vietnam? Ruth Stewart: [23:01] Did you come back to the States? Eleanor Carey: Oh, I came back to the States. Yeah, and, um, I forget where I was. I was in another assignment, not, it was a temporary assignment. And so in, um, ’79 I could get out at any time, you know. Yell, you know, if they had, um, you know, I felt I was a career officer and, uh, I didn’t have to get out after 10 years or something like that, so I was there till 1979 and 24 years of active duty. Ruth Stewart: Okay. Eleanor Carey: I liked every bit, bit of it, did not ever regret going, never. Ruth Stewart: [23:56] And did you have any changes in your idea about the military or the war from being in Vietnam and being exposed to that? Eleanor Carey: Yeah. I had, the ex-, the exposure was, you know, um, I felt, you know, I was, I was [inaudible 24:15] something which was wonderful to me because I had not been there before. How do these people, how do they operate? How do they think about us? And, uh, the, the realization that so many of those children over there couldn’t get an education. They don’t even know that there is an education, you know. And, um, and some of the planters I think, I shouldn’t say this, but some of the planters I think probably gained for that, you know, so I mean if you keep them dumb, you know, they’re going to work for you. And so those were some of the things that we were concerned about. I tried, uh, my, my, my reading became, um, more powerful to find out where was [inaudible 25:01] going and what was happening. Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Eleanor Carey: And to me at one time, you know, I learned that I lived in a different world and there were so many people that didn’t have and, you know, and they did, they didn’t have, um, the people to get them, to get them the things that they needed, you know. And so some of the things I did was changing, changing what, what goes up here. Ruth Stewart: Changing your, your own thinking processes. Eleanor Carey: Yeah, uh-huh, yeah. ‘Cause, you know. Ruth Stewart: Well, Ellie, this has been very interesting what you’ve told us about your experience in the air force… Eleanor Carey: Mm-hm. Ruth Stewart: …and in Vietnam. [25:45] Is there anything else that you’d like to add before we close this up? Eleanor Carey: No, because, um, as I told you, I had, I had a write up and I, I don’t know. I have to – I think I put it in the wrong place and I’m trying to, trying to find it. If I find it, I’ll be the first one to, I’ll give it to you because, because I, I want some of my feelings on there too, you know. Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Eleanor Carey: That we, we lived in a world that, you know, you thought everything was there and it was all right and everybody was all right and you look at people who barely get enough food a day and really little education. And some of those kids would say to some when we were working with them or playing with them really, uh, they’d say how, they would try to ask how much it would be, this would be like a 12 year old or so or 14 maybe, how much would it cost to, you know, to go to school there and all this. And we just thought, you know, god. Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Well, this has been very, very interesting and we sure thank you for your time and we’ll get the rest of the paperwork… Eleanor Carey: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Ruth Stewart: …filled out as we go along. Eleanor Carey: Sure. Ruth Stewart: But we surely do thank you for this. Eleanor Carey: Oh, you’re… /mlc