First Lieutenant Merriann E. McBride McKillip talks about her service in the U.S. Army Reserve Ordnance Corp and women in the military


Vivian Peterson:	This is a Women’s Overseas Service League oral history project, uh, uh, uh, on a, about a speech given by Merriann E. McBride McKillip, M-c-B-r-i-d-e M-c-K-i-l-l-i-p.  She lives at 1054 Hayes, H-a-y-e-s, in Irvine, California, zip 92720; telephone 714 area code, 786-6705.  Merriann was born in Anaheim, California, on December 21, 1964.  She was commissioned in 1986 by the Ordnance Corps U.S. Army Reserves.  She had duty in Japan, Korea, Honduras, and stateside for numerous exercises; served on a mobilization team when Operation Desert Storm/Shield.  And my name is Vivian Peterson.  I, uh, live at 2319 P (as in Paul) Via Puerta, V-i-a P-u-e-r-t-a, Laguna Hills, California.  My telephone number is 714 area code, 830-9894.  Merriann gave a speech at our meeting on Saturday, November 5, 1991, in, uh, at the Glendale Federal Savings and Loan in, uh, Laguna Hills, California.

Female #1:	And as we got acquainted about that time the war started over in Saudi Arabia and then we understand [inaudible 02:13] that was involved and so we were in the pleasure of having Merriann McBride as she was listed on our publicity, but she went and got married so now her name is Merriann McKillip.  And so [inaudible 02:30] little bit tell you about her experiences as to what, what women are doing in the army or in the military right now.  Okay.  I’m her mother.  I’m her mother.

Merriann McKillip:	Of course, mine was scheduled.  [laughter]  Yeah.  She shorted me 3 minutes.

Female #1:	Yes.  I did short her.  I promised her a year [inaudible 02:53] and I only gave her [inaudible 02:55].  [laughter]

Merriann McKillip:	Good afternoon.  My name is Lieutenant Merriann McKillip and I’m in the United States Army Ordnance Corps, which is, my area of expertise is maintenance, um, not only missile munitions maintenance, tank automotive maintenance, um, almost anything but aviation maintenance.  So the soldiers that work for me include mechanics, um, electronic, uh, electronic equipment, generator, um, almost anything that needs a wrench to fix it is, is what my guys and my girls do.  Um, I was commissioned through the, uh, Army ROTC, uh, Reserve Officer Training Corps, um, in 1986 from Cal State Fullerton, locally.  Um, in the past 7 years, I’ve traveled to Japan, Korea, and Honduras in different training capacities.  I spent two 3-week tours in Japan for an exercise called, exercise called Yama Sakura.  It was a, what’s called a command post exercise.  It’s a computer-generated war that we react and proact to.  Um, in, in Korea, every year there’s an exercise called Team Spirit (Team Spirit ‘87, Team Spirit ’88), and that’s an exercise with the Korean government and the United States Armed Forces, um, kind of preparing for the defense of Korea in, if in the event of, uh, of an invasion from the North.  Um, I was there in 1986, no, 1987 I was there for 6 weeks.  In 1988, I was there for 4 months, uh, on-site support.

I spent 3 weeks in Honduras for an exercise called Fuertes Caminos or Freedom Road and that was in 1988, 1989.  And the, the United States Army, um, Engineer Corps was building a railroad through Honduras to facilitate the, the, um, the growth of the country, uh, just allowing the, the, uh, civilians in Honduras to be able to get around their own country a little bit easier.  We also built schools while we were down there.  And I was part of the maintenance support that supported the engineer company with keeping their equipment running.

In 19-, in August of 1990, my unit came up on the list of units that were scheduled to deploy to Operation Desert Shield.  Um, I’m, I’m right now, I was at that time a member of the 489th Light Equipment Maintenance Company out in San Bernardino, California, as a reservist.  I was activated to come in and get my unit ready to go.  In September of 1990, it was determined that our unit was not going to go, but I was ordered to active duty at the Headquarters 63rd Army Reserve Command in North Alameda to assist in the mobilization of other units.  In addition to being an ordnance officer, I have a secondary in personnel and in administrative or AG, Adjutant General’s Corps.

Um, as part of this mobilization team, I assisted in the deployment of 22 units, 3 of which stayed within continental United States, 19 of which went to Saudi Arabia and Bahrain, United Emirates, and, and some into Kuwait.  Um, we had a total of 2700 soldiers deployed.  Of the 2700, 350 were female women, women soldiers.  Um, that was a small portion of the total 65,000 women that deployed in support of Operation Desert Shield and Storm, but, um, those were our local people.  The types of units that we deployed into Operation Desert Shield and Storm included transportation units, quartermaster which was a supply, not only general supply and field service companies, but also water purification units.  Um, also we had field, the field service companies included bakery sections, graves registration and now they call memorial services, um, laundry vac units, and, um, renovation which is the repair of canvas equipment and tents and uniforms.  We also had maintenance units both forward direct support units that go right out there and fix the stuff right on site as well as general support which is where they evacuate the equipment farther back to be fixed.  Uh, we also had several medical units from, from the California, Nevada, and New Mexico areas deploy.  And we had a military [inaudible 07:35] and we also had instructors from our reserve school deployed to assist in the training of soldiers in-country and in the continental United States.

The types of jobs that the female soldiers held during Desert Storm included that of drivers.  They not only drove, uh, pickup trucks and what we call the [inaudible 07:55], like a Bronco.  We also had them driving the huge hea-, uh, they’re, they’re like a heavy equipment transport truck.  They drove big rigs is really what they were doing.  Um, we had mechanics working on everything from, uh, paint trucks to tank turret, um, generators, trucks, um, electronic equipment, communication and signal equipment.  Anything that was broken, they were fixing.  The female soldiers were deployed as military police.  They went over there and worked at port security.  When the ships would come in with all of the equipment, these women were, were part of the military police detachment that pr-, provided security at the port.  We also had the soldiers go over in the areas of cooks and bakers in the field service company.  They did admin services.  Um, they provided support in memorial services.  They were, um, and there were very few casualties on the American side, but they did also support the processing, collection, and administrative support for the, um, the Iraqi’s dead so that was an area that the, the female soldiers from our own local unit, um, were involved in.  And we also had our own soldiers involved in medical support.  They worked in the combat support hospital, evacuation hospital, and the general hospitals that were deployed overseas.

On the active duty side, we had soldier support in signal communications.  They worked as com-, communication satellite, um, operators.  They worked in aviation areas.  They only aviation area that was cut off to women during Desert Storm was that of the Apache helicopter.  They worked on transport.  They, um, flew helicopters into the area to, for evacuation.  Um, the helicopter, the female helicopter pilots in the United States Army went everywhere the men could go except into the combat world with the Apache helicopters.  They were also involved in field artillery and air defense artillery.  You’ve heard a lot about the Patriot missile.  That is one battery that women are allowed into in the air defense, in air defense artillery branch.  And there were women batter-, women commanded batteries in Desert Storm.

Vivian Peterson:	Hm.  I had no idea.

Merriann McKillip:	Also, for the first time in history, women were put into – or not put into, but women were already in commander positions and in senior non-commissioned officer positions.  And it was the first time in history that there was not a question whether or not a, whether or not the women should go in that capacity.  During Grenada in 1983, there was an MT company from Fort Bragg, North Carolina, deployed to Granada in the first wave.  It was turned back because there were women in the units.  The women were turned back and said “You can’t go with your unit.  We’re not sure if we’re going to send you or not strictly because you’re a woman.”  Three days later they said “Okay.  Now you can go.”  [laughter] When they got to Granada, they said “No.  You’re not supposed to be here.”  And they sent them back again.  [laughter]  Three days later, they turned back and finally allowed them in the country.  And at that point, they needed to make a decision, the military needed to make a decision as to whether or not the, um, soldiers in the military, female soldiers in the military were going to be [inaudible 11:15] and be kept during time of peace and when the [inaudible 11:21] sorry, honey, you got to stay home.

So, um, during the next 10 years or the next 9 years, they made the decision that, um, women could do the job and, um, when Desert Storm came up they didn’t question whether or not that female commander or that female NCO should go in that capacity.  If the female commander was there, she was sent.  Uh, also in Panama, you know, 6 months earlier in Operation Just Cause, um, it was, women proved themselves on the, in the combat zone with the, um, the military police company that was sent was commanded by a women, Captain Linda Bray, and she was involved in a direct firefight on a position that was not expected, um, and it was realized that they could do the job just as well as any other soldier.

Some people have asked me if the women in Desert Storm were treated any differently, strictly based on their sex.  Um, I spoke with some friends of mine who did go overseas and one of my friends was Lieutenant [Ann Hurry 12:26].  She is a maintenance control officer with [inaudible 12:29] maintenance company direct support forward were, um, out of Fort Bragg, North Carolina.  She’s a West Point graduate from 1986, 1987, and she and I were, um, best friends in officer basic course.  And, um, she gave me these accounts.  She said that when it came down to it, the male and female soldiers didn’t have anybody else to depend on but themselves and that the male soldiers realized that they couldn’t do it alone.  And she said the more time they spent in the desert, the, the discrimination tended to disappear.  There were less accounts of harassment, less accounts of disc-, discrimination because the more time they spent together, um, the more the women proved that they could do the jobs that they were required to do.  She also said that once they, once they say combat zone, everybody’s getting an extra $110 a month.  They’re all doing the same job for the same pay and they were treated fairly and they were treated equally.

Um, she also pointed out that the, um, that the wom-, that the female soldiers in Desert Storm showed the Arabs that women’s place is not always in the home or behind the veil.  She said that, um, she had – her unit, her unit was, um, visited by several Saudi and Arab generals and dignitaries and, and from other foreign countries as well and they were impressed by the job that the female soldiers were able to do, that they commanded the unit and that they commanded their section and that the male soldiers treated them fairly and equally.

And the restrictions that you heard about with the sleeves down you couldn’t look the male, the Arab, male Arabs in the eyes.  You couldn’t work out in the open and you couldn’t work without your DCU, the desert camouflage jacket on.  Um, those restrictions tended to go away.  She said that by October of 1990, most of those restrictions had gone by the wayside because the, the Arabs realized that the female soldiers weren’t going to run downtown in tank tops and shorts and disrupt their religion and their culture.  So after, after that October, things kind of calmed down and they didn’t seem to have a problem with the female soldiers per se.  She said that they had problems with their, their own commanders worrying, still worrying about that.  You know, it was, it was still coming down kind of like latent, uh, latent regulations from above.  They, they, it was still being pushed down that soldiers shouldn’t be outside without their jackets on, but in 130-degree heat it seemed pretty ridiculous.

Um, overall since 1975, the training of soldiers, both male and female, has changed.  When, um, they opened up the, the, uh, quota for women in the military in all of the armed forces, they realized that they needed to train the male and female soldiers on the same level.  Basic training is still separate for the enlisted soldiers.  For the officers, once you’re an ROTC cadet, you go through training right alongside the male soldiers.  When you go through your basic course, your advanced course as a cadet, you train right along with the male soldiers.  Every, from, from sun up to sun down, you’re in the same steps they are [inaudible 15:42] swim test, jumping off, you know, rappelling down 80-foot cliffs.  Everything is the same, and you’re supposed to do it just like they do.

On the, uh, enlisted side they have, um, separate basic trainings at different locations and then once they go into their advanced individual training, which is where they learn their MOS or skill, they do, um, they, they are integrated and they go through the, the training right alongside, they’re in the same platoon, same squad with their, with their male counterparts.  Uh, and when I, when I send my soldiers to training, um, as a platoon leader and as a future commander, they go through the same training.  The only time that they are separated is, is in [inaudible 16:23].  And, you know, when I need to – and, and at times during Desert Storm, male and female soldiers shared the large, GP medium and GP large tents.  They just threw a blanket up if, if necessary, threw blankets up and they had separate quarters but the same tent and that did not pose problems as, as was expected.

Uh, out of 467 MOS skills, in military occupational skills in the United States Army today, only 37 are closed to women and those are in the combat, uh, combat areas, um, which shows that there’s been 35 different positions that have finally been open, been open to women in the past 4 years.  And, um, I guess that kind of brings us to the present.  Does anyone have any questions for me?  Hm.

Vivian Peterson:	[inaudible 17:18] 35 that are still not open.  [17:21] Is that front line?

Merriann McKillip:	It’s, it’s mainly in the infantry skills, um, it also includes, um, in, in field artillery, armor infantry.  A lot of the field artillery positions are closed to women.  Air defense artillery because it’s farther back tends to be more open to women.  Like I said, in the Patriot batteries and in, um, some of the, the large missile, missile batteries they are open to them.

Vivian Peterson:	[17:48] What have you been trained in?

Merriann McKillip:	I’ve been trained, um, in the maintenance area.  I, um, kind of had some real different positions.  Um, in Korea I was a loan agreement officer during Team Spirit ’88, and for 4 months I signed for [inaudible  18:03] war stock, jeeps, trucks, water buffalos [inaudible 18:07] [laughter] and, um, I signed for all this equipment and then remand to, uh, the units that were there for training.  And they kind of create like a, a big scenario of a war and they’re, they had actual support.  They broke vehicles, so we fixed them.  Um, they needed to be fed, so we, we transported food and petroleum to them.  And so it was a live mission for a period.  The actual exercise was only 2 weeks, but you have 2 months build up before the exercise and then 2 months build up or build down after the exercise to get equipment repaired and turned back in.

Vivian Peterson:	[18:47] Who took the [inaudible 18:45]?  Who had to sign for it?

Merriann McKillip:	Oh, I had to sign for everything.  [laughter]  Yeah.  And you know the only thing that was really lousy, I had to sign for 600 sleeping bags.  And [inaudible 18:58] soldiers, the, the Korean soldiers that showed up to, as part of this, this joint force didn’t have anything.  I mean they showed up with the uniforms on their backs and the trucks that they were driving in and that was it.  So we had to provide them food, uh, you know, shower facilities, and sleeping bags.  And I’m trying to explain to this Korean captain that this is a hand receipt and he’s going to need to sign for these and then I want’m back, you know.  And, I mean, it, it was, we didn’t have, uh, anybody to, um, interpret for us to translate so I went out there every night to make sure they hadn’t left.  [laughter]  We, I think out of 100 sleeping bags, we only had 6 that found their way into a, into permanent status and I think we wrote those off as a gift to the Korean government.  [laughter]  We, we, um…

Vivian Peterson:	[inaudible 19:48].

Merriann McKillip:	I think that was it.  Th-, those 6 left in the middle in the night and I never did find out where they went.

Vivian Peterson:	Let me ask you a personal question.

Merriann McKillip:	Sure.

Vivian Peterson:	[19:57] Do you plan to stay in the military?

Merriann McKillip:	Yes.  I do.  I plan to make it a career.

Vivian Peterson:	[20:00] Is your husband military?

Merriann McKillip:	No.  He’s not military.  He’s not employed.  He’s presently an architect student in his senior year at Cal Poly Pomona.  And he’s very proud of the fact that I’m in the military and he supports me in every way as a, as a military spouse, but, um, he’s not, he, he himself is not interested in it though I should say.

Vivian Peterson:	[20:21] Are you still in the reserves?

Merriann McKillip:	Right now I’m active reserves, um, and I, I, I’m pending, um, orders for a, for a 4 or 5 month or 5-year period.  I requested, I’ve requested to go on a program called Active Guard Reserve which would be as a full-time support for a reserve unit.

Vivian Peterson:	[20:39] Are there any problems with like rapes there?

Merriann McKillip:	Very little.  I’ve, I’ve talked to, um – I’ll tell you.  The, the, the problems with rape that they had were handled in-country by the leadership there and it was no different than any, any other place.  It wasn’t accelerated due to the, due to the war and they were handled with, um, court marshals in-country.  Uh, we didn’t have any rampant problem with that.  And one thing that I noticed in the news, they really played up when the thing about, um, women being in combat roles when it was in the, on the congress, congressional floor, they brought up the fact that there were numerous pregnancies during Desert Storm.

Vivian Peterson:	Yes.

Merriann McKillip:	I wanted to address that and I wasn’t sure if I should bring it up.  The, um, the women, a lot of the women that showed up pregnant in Desert Storm and Desert Shield actually were deployed pregnant.  They were deploying so many soldiers through such a quick mobilization process that a lot of them were not tested properly when they left.  My friend that went over there in August of 1990 was at Fort Bragg, which is an active component post and they are, they are, because of this, the type of unit they are, they’re supposed to be ready to go in 24 hours.  And she was given 24 hours’ notice and then was deployed.  They didn’t do any sort of medical screenings because it was assumed that they were ready to go.  It turned out she was 3 days’ pregnant when she deployed.

Vivian Peterson:	Three days.  [laughter]

Merriann McKillip:	And she stayed until she – she left in August and she came back in January of 1991.  Didn’t tell anybody, just finally right after Christmas she said “Excuse me.  [laughter]  I need [inaudible 22:16].  They’re all good to go and they’re all settled in and I think I need to go home for a few months.”  [laughter]  And she had her baby in May.

Vivian Peterson:	Aw.  [inaudible 22:23].

Merriann McKillip:	She had no idea when she left [inaudible 22:26].

Vivian Peterson:	[inaudible 22:26].

Merriann McKillip:	She didn’t want to come back until her men were all set.

Vivian Peterson:	That’s right.

Merriann McKillip:	Most of her, most of our sol-, most of the female soldiers that found themselves in that situation stayed until the last moment before they came home.  And a lot of them, um, within the restrictions of the war were able to go back and join their unit after a 6-week maternity leave.

Vivian Peterson:	[22:46] Are a husband and wife allowed in the same unit or is there restriction?

Merriann McKillip:	There, at this time, there are, there is no restriction with that, but they do have to have a family care plan.  We, in, just in the 2700 soldiers I deployed, we had several husband and wife teams or husband and wife families that deployed together.  Um, we do have a problem where, um, we had a lack of a family care plan.  They had not identified someone to take care of their children…

Vivian Peterson	Oh.

Merriann McKillip:	…in the, in the event of mobilization.  If that could be corrected, they both went.  If not, um, I would give them the option.  I, I gave them the option of transferring one of the members into another unit until they could get the family care plan taken care of.

Vivian Peterson:	Hm.  [23:29] Is there a quota system on enlisting in that you’re going to have X number of thousands of soldiers that so many are women and so many are men or is it first come, first serve so to speak?

Merriann McKillip:	Yeah.  I asked that of a recruiter and what she told me was that month to month their requirements change.

Vivian Peterson:	Oh.

Merriann McKillip:	Maybe one month they need a certain IQ or a certain geographical location or a certain sex or a certain weight.  Um, but overall, there is no real quota specifically for that.  Um, the, the number of women has just in the past years is up too I think.  I think it jumped in 1975 through 1980.  It jumped from like 18,000 of the original, um, [inaudible 24:17] converts, you know, that they converted over to the branches of the 58,000.

Vivian Peterson:	Hm.

Merriann McKillip:	And it jumped.  It’s, it’s growing, growing rampant.  I mean, there’s hundreds of thousands of female soldiers in the military in all branches.

Female #2:	[24:31] Can I ask you a question?  Did the different ethnic groups get along well in the military?  I, I’m, I’m just a retired school teacher and there’s been a lot of discussion amongst teachers I know from different areas [throat clearing] who maintain that the children are not interacting as well as they might from the different, so many different eth-, ethnic groups.

Merriann McKillip:	Mm-hm.

Vivian Peterson:	[inaudible 24:50] everybody was white.

Merriann McKillip:	Mm-hm.  They say that in the, you know, the military is, is a microcosm of the world around it.  And we’ve had problems in, in different areas.  We’ve had problems with race relations and, and…

Vivian Peterson:	[25:07] You do? Really?

Merriann McKillip:	Yes.  And in Desert Storm I understand of the attack coming back, um, we did have problems with different racial groups depending on the makeup of the unit.

Vivian Peterson:	[25:17] Were they calling each other names?

Merriann McKillip:	Calling each other names, getting in fistfights, just…

Vivian Peterson:	Just the usual.  [laughter]

Female:	Yup.  The usual.

Female:	[inaudible 25:22].

Merriann McKillip:	Men…

Vivian Peterson:	They always fight.

Merriann McKillip:	Right.

Vivian Peterson:	[25:24] But I mean the women.  The women don’t do that.

Merriann McKillip:	Not, not as much.  I have to admit, I went through basic training at Fort Knox Kentucky, and this was ROTC Cadet mind you.  And I had 9 girls in my unit and of the 9, 7 of them were black and it was a reverse discrimination.

Vivian Peterson:	Uh-huh.

Merriann McKillip:	Um, they felt that because they were black they were being treated differently and that they had to do more work and this, that, and the other thing.  As it turned out, it was because there were more of them then there were of us that they were pulling more duty.  It was all the same…

Vivian Peterson:	Yeah.

Merriann McKillip:	…amount, but the, the impression was that we were getting off, you know, without doing something.  And, um, I don’t think it ever went to blows, but it – there, there was friction there.  And that was back in 1982, or no, 1983.  And I think it’s gotten a lot better.  There’s a very strong, uh, EEO system in the military, Equal Opportunity Employ-, um, they, it’s not really tolerated.  My first [inaudible 26:22] [coughing] that I was in-, involved in [inaudible 26:24] was the 489th.  It’s out in San Bernardino, California.  And my first platoon was 95% Hispanic, the other 5% was black, actually, I guess 4%.  And I had 1 – I had 2 white soldiers.

Vivian Peterson:	You were the token WASP, is that right? [laughter]

Merriann McKillip:	Yeah. I was, I was 1 of 3 and, um.

Vivian Peterson:	I say that because I know you [inaudible 26:43].

Merriann McKillip:	And these, these guys when they, when I first walked in there they [inaudible 26:50] they thought they saw me coming.  And it took me about 2 months before I sat down [inaudible 26:55] and I kind of told them how [inaudible 26:58] cabbage.  That I was not right off the street.  That I looked real young, but that I’d been around and that this was the way we were going to play this game.  And, um, to this date I have, they still call me for, for advice and support even though I’ve, I’ve moved on to the battalion level.  I’m still within the same battalion, but I’ve moved on to the S1 slot at battalion.  And they still call me to say “You got to talk to this platoon leader I’ve got now.  He’s not doing [inaudible 27:22].”  “Wait a minute.  You’ve got to train him like you trained me.”  And, um, they, they’re like family, so.

Vivian Peterson:	Hm.

Merriann McKillip:	But I have to tell you I did have to get involved in keeping them from hitting each other a couple of times.  [laughter]

Vivian Peterson:	[27:36] What percentage of the women are married that are in the service?

Merriann McKillip:	That’s – I know within the 60s [inaudible 27:42] it’s probably 50%.

Vivian Peterson:	Really.

Merriann McKillip:	And it’s, it’s like any other situation.  You know, the younger soldiers, um, most of them are not, um.  As they get older, a lot of them are.  And a lot of them are married – a lot of them are dual-service families.  They have both peop-, both family members are in the military reserves, the army reserves.

Vivian Peterson:	[inaudible 27:59].

Merriann McKillip:	Um, I dated a couple of guys, though, in the army and I wouldn’t marry one.  [laughter]

Vivian Peterson:	You chose the right one I’m sure.  I’m [inaudible 28:09].  [laughter]

Merriann McKillip:	The question was what did I do, um, for the deployment and in the mobilization of the unit.

Vivian Peterson:	I was going to ask you that.

Merriann McKillip:	Um, we, we had 3 different mobilization sites locally.  And what that is is it’s the active duty sites where we sent our units so that they could be medically screened, that they could receive additional combat skill training, that they could receive additional field MOS skill training, um, before they deployed overseas.  And most of our units went through one of these 3 sites.  One was Fort Ord, California, up in Monterey, California, one was Fort Huachuca, Arizona, and the other one was Fort Irwin, California, out in the Mojave Desert.

And so one of my jobs was to, before the unit was deployed, it would come up on a list, um, saying this was the unit that was going to be sent and they received their alert notice.  So when we received that alert, we knew that within 3 days they would receive an order.  At that alert, we would go out to the unit and one of my jobs was to screen their personnel with their, their manning roster and identify who was deployable, who was not deployable, and who I was going to have, what shortages they had skill-wise.  And then I had the authority to cross-level soldiers up to a 500-mile radius, so I would call Private Snuffy’s unit and say Private Snuffy is now needed in this unit and you will have him transferred over in 24 hours.  And that soldier has 48 hours to get his equipment packed and ready to go and he’ll be going with this unit.

Vivian Peterson:	Hm.

Merriann McKillip:	So we were cross-leveling people all over the place.  We were switching them from a California unit moving into a Las Vegas unit, then they would go on to Huachuca.  If they were in a – maybe their skill was needed and they lived in Alaska but they were part of a unit here, we sh-, we ship them down and they went with the unit here.  So we did a lot of cross-leveling of people during Desert Shield/Desert Storm.  In addition to that, I was a liaison with [inaudible 30:16] army and with the mobilization sites to make sure that if they did have problems, we could, we could correct them.  Um, but some of the non-deployable problems we had, um, funny enough it wasn’t the pregnancies that they talked about, a lot of it was preexisting conditions, preexisting injuries that were not noted in their medical file.  The guy would show up and you found out he had a, a heart, a heart murmur that he really didn’t even know about.  He wasn’t deployable.  They would send him home.  Maybe – oh, one thing that was funny.  If they had braces and could not take them off... [dictation ends]


/mlc