Interview of Lois Kuen Johnson on her experiences serving overseas in the American Red Cross rest camps near the end of WWII Interviewer: Hello, Lois. [00:02] What branch of service did you, uh, serve? Lois Johnson: I served in the American Red Cross. Interviewer: [00:08] How long? Lois Johnson: Approximately two years. Interviewer: [00:10] Where was that? Lois Johnson: That was in the Mediterranean Theater Operation. Interviewer: [00:14] What influenced you to en-, volunteer? Lois Johnson: I think it was probably a friend of mine who suggested I volunteer. Interviewer: [00:14] What did you do prior to enlistment? Lois Johnson: I worked for the home service department of a utility company putting on cooking schools and demonstrations and things of that sort. Interviewer: Oh. [00:30] What did you do in the service? Lois Johnson: I, uh, worked in, uh, rest camps and in officer and enlisted men clubs. Interviewer: [00:38] Did you expect this experience to prepare you for a career? Lois Johnson: No, not necessarily. Interviewer: [00:44] Did it? Lois Johnson: Not really. Interviewer: [00:47] What was your pay? Lois Johnson: Oh, uh, I think that’s irrelevant – Interviewer: Okay. Lois Johnson [Inaudible 00:51] present time. Interviewer: [00:53] Were you given equal opportunities for service and education? Lois Johnson: Well, in the Red Cross, I don’t think that that applied to people that, uh, were from that branch. Interviewer: Oh. [1:07] What assignments were given to woman? Lois Johnson: In the Red Cross you mean? Interviewer: Yes. Uh-huh. Lois Johnson: Well, I think there were recreation directors, Clubmobile people, hospital service. I believe that was it at that time. And then probably in the offices, uh, like secretaries and things of that sort. Interviewer: [01:29] What was the nature of your housing? Lois Johnson: I was billeted in, uh, the hotels or in the actual clubs where I worked. Interviewer: [01:38] And medical care? Lois Johnson: I didn’t have to have any medical care, except one time I thought that I had hepatitis, and they gave me a shot in the fanny with a big dose of penicillin. I think the needle was a mile long. Interviewer: [01:51] Who’s they? Lois Johnson: The, uh, military. Interviewer: Oh. Mm-hm. So, then you didn’t have to have other medical care – Lois Johnson: No, no. Interviewer: Through the army? [01:59] Uh, what was your uniform dress? Lois Johnson: It was a gray uniform, and, uh, then later on, it became [OD 02:07], it became a sort of [kochi-boch 02:10] Interviewer: [02:11] What was your, uh, mem-, memorable experience? Lois Johnson: Oh, I had many of them. Probably, hmm. The most unusual experience I had was, um – had nothing to do with Red Cross, had nothing to do with my ability to be a home service worker, had absolutely nothing to do with what I was doing over there, except I was probably a little too nosey. Uh, I was - in the fall of 1945, and, uh, I was on a special assignment with three other girls in the norther part of Italy. By northern part, I mean it was somewhere in between [Leghorn 02:48] and Rome and Rome and Naples. And, uh, we were, uh, on, on a particular assignment of, uh, giving troops coffee and pastries when they came down on the train from Northern Italy on their way to Naples. And, uh, then from there, they would go home by troop ship. And, uh, we took different shifts during the day, and my shift happened to be a night shift. And what we would do, we would get the coffee and pastries ready for the fellas, and then when the train whistled in, why they would get off the train and exercise a bit and have the pastry and coffee, get back on the train, and go back to – and then continue on their, on their, uh, ride down to Naples. This was in the mid-, uh, late at night, and an Italian man came running into our club and talked to one of our Italian helpers. And he was saying something about [croce 03:48] – uh, my Italian helper said, “Croce Rossa,” and he looked at me, and, uh, then he said, “Signora, bambino,” and, uh, “signora [melato 03:58],” and I recognized Red Cross, uh, sick signora, something about a baby. So, I had the interpreter talk to me, and it seemed that this man, who came rushing into the club, was traveling with his wife, and, uh, she wasn’t feeling well. She was pregnant and was gonna have a baby. And he had, uh, taken her out of the car and put her into this – on the, in a boxcar in the switchyard, and, uh, had come for assistance. So, I had one of my Italian people take him into town to get a doctor. So, there was an MP on duty and so I – that – uh, I knew quite well and so, I said, “Well, let’s go over and take a look and see how this woman is doin’. What’s – you know, how she’s getting along or if there’s anything I can help her with.” And so, I had just, uh, opened a box of, uh, or a bag of sugar with a – and I had the sugar sack in my pocket, and I thought, “Well, I’ll get some towels and candle, and matches, and we’ll go over and sorta make her more comfortable.” And they had pointed out to me what boxcar she was in, and there was sort of a ramp going up to this boxcar, and we walked over there. And it was pitch dark, and he had a flashlight. When we set up the candles and lit the candles and, uh, uh, we – and then I saw she wasn’t gonna have a baby, she was having it. Interviewer: Hm. Lois Johnson: So, I never was very interested in many – in babies or little animals or seeing anything get born, and probably if, if it was now instead of 40 years ago, I’d have been a little more aware of what was going on. At that time, I knew nothin’. But I’ll tell ya one thing, from what happened between when the – you, you see, in the movies, the doctor asking the father to heat hot water, and the next thing you see a squall. I found out what happened in between. I, uh, delivered the baby. I had never in my life seen anything being born. I, uh, took the mucus out of its mouth and tried to clean out its nose, turned it upside down, got it to squalling, and handing it, handed it to the mother. I did know I had to do something about the cord though. And so, I can remember when I was a Girl Scout that I tied a square knot and, uh, I thought that’s the best thing to do. So, I asked the fella that was there with me to burn his blade on his knife on the candle, and I remembered I had the cord from the sugar sack in my pocket, and I cut that cord and tied it in two places and cut it in the middle, wrapped – cleaned up the baby a bit and handed it to the mother. And just about that time, the doctor came. And then I could hear the train whistling in, so I hurried back, put a apron over my bloody dress, served donuts and coffee to the oncoming troops, and after it was all over with, I got sick. I was sick for three days. That was one unusual experience. Interviewer: Indeed [laughter], it was. Wow. [07:37] Is, is that the only one? Or can you think of another one? Lois Johnson: Oh, I’ve got all kinds of experiences. Interviewer: Oh, tell us another one. Lois Johnson: Oh, I don’t know. It’s - I’m not very good at telling stories, and I have all kinds of stories to tell. I had one real unusual experience that I call my [duja ve 07:56] friend. And this happened to be that I would see the – I saw the same person about six different times in course of a year and a half. And although I was with people who, I thought, knew that – who – that I had talked with this man, nobody would ever admit that I ever saw this person. The only way I could ever remember who he was or even distinguish him was by his piercing blue eyes. I think that anyone who was overseas with the service, things happen so fast and you saw so many different people that just by chance to meet someone six different times was in itself unusual, and as I think back, I wonder right now did I ever know – meet this person, or was it just a dream. But it happened three incidences in Bari, one it he southern part of Italy, one time in Pisa, and one time in Interlaken, Switzerland. I think he was probably with the CIA, the OSS, or what, but he had been in different types of uniforms such as navy, the air corps, dressed like a Swiss, dressed like a native Italian, dressed like a Yugoslav, and never once could I find anyone to admit that they had seen him. I’m sure he had some highly secret assignment. And, uh, although he told me that he’d see after the war, I think he must’ve been killed because the last time I saw him was in Interlaken, Switzerland in the fall of ‘45. That was the most unusual experience because if any of you can remember, you very seldom, by chance, ran across the same person. Uh, did you ever have occasion to see the same person more than once? It seemed like there were so many people coming and going in the area, and especially the kind of work I was in, I saw lots of people. Never did I see the same person twice, especially in rest camps and – oh, in club work, you – they would come into the club, but you would never see anyone in Rome that you hadn’t planned on meeting him. You would never see anyone in Pisa or in Florence or – just by chance on the street and that’s [the way 10:17] – six different times I saw this man. I call him my [duja ve] [inaudible 10:22]. Interviewer: That was unusual. Lois Johnson: Very unusual. I would like to know. He – [the only way 10:26] – Interviewer: But you talked to him? You talked to him? Lois Johnson: Yes. Every time. I spent time with him. Interviewer: Oh. Lois Johnson: He had piercing blue eyes, and that was the only way that I could ever… Interviewer: Hm. Lois Johnson: … distinguish him from someone else. Because, as I said, he was dressed in native costume at times and uh, several ti-, one – a couple times when I saw him on the street, I spoke to him. His name was John, and I got a real lot of flack from the fellas ‘cause they said, “What business do you have talking to local people?” And, uh, that’s the only, only thing about him and that was ever distinguishable, and I often wondered what ever happened to that man. He told me one time that he, uh, taught – that he was a college professor in foreign languages. That’s all I’ve ever known about him, but I’ve often wondered what ever became of him. I think he must’ve been killed. Otherwise, I’m sure that I would’ve heard from him after the war because he took my name and address. I know nothing about what his full name was, who he was, what he was. He did have my name. Interviewer: Hm. That is interesting. Lois Johnson: It is unusual. Interviewer: Yes, yes. No, I didn’t have – I was attached to an outfit, so we just saw the same people all the time. [11:39] Can you compare se-, service careers then with the present? Lois Johnson: I have no way of comparing’m. I, uh, in recent times, I have – don’t know anyone in the military nor in Red Cross. So, I have no way of comparing’m with then or now. I know that I was treated very nice. I – the – as you know, the uniform – once you wore – had that uniform on they – you were immediately compared with everyone else. I mean, if you had the uniform, that meant that you were no better or different than any of the rest of’m. And one person could ruin it for a whole group of people. Interviewer: [12:22] Did you experience conflict between being feminine and being a military professional? Lois Johnson: Nope. Interviewer: No. [12:31] Did you use benefits of the G.I. Bill? Lois Johnson: No. Of course, in Red Cross we couldn’t. Interviewer: We weren’t even given any, that’s right. [12:38] What demanded the greatest adjustment: uniform dress, living with others, regulations, lack of freedom, terminology? What was the greatest adjustment? Lois Johnson: I really – there was no adjustment, you know. I went into the Red Cross, uh, not because – well, maybe we want to talk about that later. The reason I went into Red Cross was not from a patriotic reason, nor that I wanted to get away from something. I always liked to travel and it – the way I figured, if it went overseas, I was traveling on someone else’s money to see the world. I don’t know whether you ever read any books by Richard Halliburton? Interviewer: Mm-hm. Lois Johnson: But I re-, enjoyed reading his books on travel when I was a youngster, and I thought, “Ever I get a chance to travel, that’s what I’m gonna do.” So, tra-, going with the Red Cross overseas meant I was going to be able to travel. I didn’t know whether I’d go to Europe, South Pacific, Timbuktu, or where, but the fact that I was over there and it was indeed a job, made it much easier for me than I think it did for the military. It seemed like the fact that they were someplace they didn’t want to be, it was a hell hole, it didn’t make any different whe-, whether – difference whether it was the most beautiful spot in the world. The fact they had to be there was one thing. To have to do something is one thing. To want to do it is another. I wanted to do what I was doing, and I enjoyed every minute of it. Interviewer: [14:10] What was the most unpopular regulation? Lois Johnson: I can’t remember about anything unpopular, any kind of unpopular regulation as far as the Red Cross was concerned. I think we probably were freer in what we were able to do than the military was. Uh, I can’t think of anything that was very unpopular, except that when I first went over, when I first arrived in Naples, there were 100 Red Cross Girls on the ship, and we were obliged to be at a dance. And 100 females with thousands of men, we’d no more dance with’m one second then we were pushed somewhere else, and it seemed just like we were cattle. Do you remember that, June? June: Uh, no. Isn’t that funny, I don’t remember. Lois Johnson: Must’ve made a big impression on me. June: Huh. Lois Johnson: Anyway… June: I don’t remember that. Uh, but I remember that – well, we were freer because we could mix with, uh, the enlisted men and the – Lois Johnson: Officers. June: Officers. Where if you – Lois Johnson: Enlisted men couldn’t. June: Were one or the other, you couldn’t. No. Lois Johnson: Yes. I think, and I think that the unlisted men took a dim view of the fact that we could mix with both of’m. That we probably, in some instances, preferred officers to enlisted men or enlisted men to officers. There might have been that, uh, that problem. However, I was ne-, I was always with officers at one place. I was with enlisted men in, uh, in a rest camp, but there was no problem there. Interviewer: [15:41] What did you do after your service was concluded? Lois Johnson: Well, I came to California, and I got a job working. I’ve worked ever since. I lived for about 20-some years in Hawaii and I’ve been back in California about a year and a half or two years. Interviewer: Hm. [15:59] Were you civilian or military? You were considered military, weren’t – Lois Johnson: In, in, in the Red Cross? Interviewer: The Red – yes. Lois Johnson: Well, only – I think, that if we were captured, I think we had the rank of a captain. Is that right? Interviewer: Yes. Mm-hm. [16:14] How was your service organized? Lois Johnson: My – I beg your pardon? I don’t quite understand. Interviewer: Well, I’m just thinking of ours. We had two girls that were in Clubmobile that, uh, gave out the donuts, and then we had a man that was the head, that sort of received all the mail and – Lois Johnson: I had a – Interviewer: Told us where to go. Lois Johnson: I, I probably was unique in the assignment I had. Uh, I went from Naples, where I landed, to Bari, Italy. And from there, I was assigned to the 15th Air Forces. I no longer had anything to do with the Red Cross. I was, was directly responsible to the military. And I went to a rest camp, and there was another Red Cross Girl there. And, uh, she and I ran the activities, recreation activity to the rest camp. Usually, one or the other of us was gone some of the time but we ran that. And then we went from the mountains of Calabria down to the ocean, to the Adriatic, on the – uh, about as far south as you could go to a place called [Santa Cesarea Terme 17:32]. We traveled just like a – moved down there like a traveling road show. Uh, we had, uh, men come to our, uh, rest camps for a week at a time. And during that week, we planned all the entertainment. And then, the next week another group was coming and we’d – were coming, and we’d start all over again doing the same thing. Interviewer: [17:54] What kind of entertainments, for example? Lois Johnson: Oh, we had, uh, we had, uh, uh, Bingo games. Interviewer: Uh-huh. Lois Johnson: We had dances. We had bonfires. Every night, we had something planned. And, uh, then – do you remember, June, when we went overseas, we – there was that horseracing game where we – they shot dice on your horse? June: Oh, yes. Uh-huh. Lois Johnson: Well, I set up a horseracing game and, uh, we had lots of fun. Interviewer: Mm-hm. Lois Johnson: Bonfires. I can remember, uh, the flight surgeon who, uh, figured – fancied he was quite cook, shooting, uh, a sauce into the weaners for our hotdogs. And some of the men he was putting saltpeter in the weaners – Interviewer: [laughter] Lois Johnson: And as a result, they wouldn’t eat any of’m. Interviewer: [18:50] Did you stay in after the war? Lois Johnson: No, I didn’t. Interviewer: [18:53] What did you dislike about your work? Lois Johnson: I can’t think of anything I really disliked, except that for so much of the time, I was alone. Uh, the other person that was with me was, uh, in, uh, up in the mountains of Calabria, really should never have been in the Red Cross, and she traveled around a lot. And I fig-, I felt like I was all alone quite a bit of the time. All the time when I was in rest camps, I felt like I had no one to turn to. That was what I disliked most about the rest camps. Interviewer: [19:31] What did you like most about your work? Lois Johnson: Well, the travel. The – I, I had a really a fortunate – I was very fortunate to be with rest camps because I did get to meet a lot of people. And, uh, have my, my immediate boss was Don the Beachcomber. I’m sure you’ve heard of the Beachcomber clubs in Hawaii, and he was a colonel, a lieutenant colonel in the, uh, fifth-, with 15th Air Forces, and he knew lots of interesting people, so I got to meet a lot of people, like [inaudible 20:07] and his wife. Any kind of entertainment that was over there. The [inaudible 20:13] was over there with Brian O’Hern and Katharine Cornell. I met lots and lots of people I never would’ve ever hoped to meet living in a little town in South Dakota. Interviewer: Mm-hm. [20:26] Were you ever under shell fire? Lois Johnson: No. Only, uh – what, what happened to us that first night in Naples, first or second night. Were we under shell fire? June: Well, um – Lois Johnson: At least there was an air raid. June: Yeah. Well, they had air raids ‘cause they were taking pictures, I think, because, uh, uh, because we were going into Southern France and we were – military was in the ocean, you know. We had all these… Lois Johnson: I, I know – June: … ships in the ocean. Lois Johnson: That they were – routed us out of bed, and we went down into a tunnel. And when I looked down at my shoes, I had them on the wrong feet. Interviewer: [laughter] Lois Johnson: So, uh, I just don’t think I’d have been very good under shell fire. Interviewer: [21:08] Did you have any after effects from your war service? Lois Johnson: No, except that I believe that I did have a touch of hepatitis, which has kept me from ever donating blood. Uh, I think that’s – I, I really don’t know whether it was actually hepatitis, but there was a bad emic-, epidemic of it that came over from North Africa. Interviewer: [21:38] Um, is there anything else you would like to add? Lois Johnson: No, except I thoroughly enjoyed my service, my time with the Red Cross. I had a lot of fun. And, uh, all in all, I thought it was a good experience. Interviewer: Thank you. /tl