INTERVIEW 0? JANUARY 22171980 WITH HRS. FRANCIS HUCKINS I was born in a h story house that my grandfather built’und and grandparents on both sides lived in the house. Xntxmxxilkhlrtx Iifihgxxifififigfigxhgxflififlxxfigfixfixxfiahhxrxx not his father, because his father died - right after he was born his father died, and grandparents-1 srandmother, his mother and my mother and father - we all lived in I that great big house, it was h stories you know. We always had a live-in maid — you'd call it that. She was Just part of the family I whe almost. And when my mother died, she died when she was Just 39,3ngfsh2/ died - it was a mood thins we had somebody there that kept thinss noinz.g My sister was 17 and I was seven when my mother died. I don‘t have g too many memories of her because I think the last year before she died she was probably sick and I was into everythinv. As I look back-I was always considered a bad child..gfipgfifigfidgyouflé§ih3§§§gfl’ I didn't think I was being bad. I was doins what camghaturally- I remember once comins home from sohooffgyhmnther was still alive and_¥ there was a child in the class that was movinv. She was a little Jewish child - there were a lot of Jewish in “ew York anyway,gigxxhgxxxxx ffiiiff I thOusht that was wonderful because we never moved and I thouphfthat was very interestins.80 I couldn't have been more than would! the first or second grade so I helpfifi her move, so I was helping he and they had the police out lookinv for me when I didn't come home from school, but I didn't do it to be bad. I just thought I was helping. I remember I was carrying somethins - I don't remember what it was - but a neiflhbor was out too lookinv for me and she got hold of me and shock me minhtly and said"you’re a bad nirl, put that down”, a. and I didn't want to put it down, I said this belonned to<§fl%§/reighberifi and she was moving. Q. This was in Brooklyn? FH3That's in Krooklyn. Q. And you said you were born in 1896? June 19, 1896?, - 2 - The reason I say that I have a friend 'H;-V;‘.'L_mhere in Kansas City - I dxxitx didn't know the Duchess was born on that day and couldn't care but she's very interested because she has that birthday and so she's told me time and again that we were all born on the same day, Q.. And your father was a businessmen and what was his name? Flt William J. Castello. Q. When did you stxrx attend Columbia University? pj¥.Thet would have been 191u to 1918. Q..And you were enrolled in the Teacher's College? Fad?!lll Yes. Q.Would you describe some of the activities you were interested ini at that time? You previously mentioned you were a member of the dramatic society.whx pjh 1 Yes, I had to sunmxnxxex commute and that was very time-consuming and a lot of the things that went on I could not take part in, because I had to go home every night. I had a long string on me,lndxhxd to be sure I came back home.;\§§;ltinally I must oé‘gfiis/ quite an upset, I realized I was_a round peg in a square hole. That wasn't what I was interested in and I went and talked to the authorities there. I asked if I could take other subjects, and of course they don't want to do that because it makes trouble for people.JSTRfi§§§§§g§§§§£§xighifi_fifi tlxxltxxnmsx take extra time to get in some of the ether subjects that I wanted to get in. to. ‘ ”1/ a Q. So then you went fiaagnegss;zmr liberal arts program? ¥¢Y~Liberal arts, yes, that's really where I belonged. And I got a: 3.3. They didn't change that. So 11 I'm a mixed pickle. I have about as many credits in toward a B.A., as I did towards a B.S.. But that doesn't matter, I had a lot of fun even though I had to go home every night and ride the subway. It's quite a little trip from out in 16th Street. Every morning the whole crew came in from New Jerse - wou r - ‘ ' - 3 - watch for your friends to get on. It was fun. Q. And then right after you graduated you went to 6amp? xlhfiYes, I went right to camp. You see the war really began in 1914 - the other countries were already at war before we entered, but niggggéii.w had entered and a lot of the boys I knew from school had gone as ambulance drivers and that kind of thing and there was a lot of talk about, to keep you all stirred up, and so I wanted to do my part too. I don't remember, you asked me once how I found out about this, I don't remember. Q.But you were aware of the war - it coincided with the years you were in college? thxes,‘ but I don't think I thought as much about it until thaxiaxtxxmtx probably the last year, when some of the American boys began to gmmx go, you see, and jobs like ambulance drivers, before we really our own troops over there. But I was very interestedagpfiyi Q.What were your reactions to events you read u about in the press, sinking of ships for example? FHKNO, I don't remember that, although I remember I had a job one summer working for Western Electric, I think they make telephones; I remember seeing the troop ships going out. They would go out to New York harbor and I was working in New York City. That was about all I could say I knew, and then the boys I knew that had Wone over. And then as soon I was through I decided to go down to camp. Q.So II what was the first camp you (1U)- sé stationed at? FHiCamp Hills. There were two camps on Long Island. One of them was Camp Mills. It was the closest in. And General Mitchell who got in great trouble with the g; Air Force - he was there at that time. He was having a rough time but because they didn't agree with him. He was perfectly right, but that was all proved later. And the camp was not completed when I was there - it was still junt tents. All the - u - permanent buildings were not up yet. Yes; but there weret these hostess houses, like the YWCA, and the bi: building we had and YMCA, and War Camp Community Service and Jewish Community Service. Those were the organizations that were there that we worked with and we all did similar thinvs. Q. What orsanization did you actually serve with thounh? Hsrxflsmmxssmnsnxtxxxsrxtasxandx (;HSIt was the War Camp Community Service x sponsored by the Knights of Q0 Columbus.“ It was a Catholic organization. That was the first time the Knights of Columbus -- any Catholic orvanization that I know of got actively engaged in a war. I don't know that they ever did that before. Do you know? No. Misc, I think that was the first time. q,You said that at {at the time you could not go overseas, because of the age 1: requirement? f . ' thounht I didn't have/ {miNcEfIaHQR/to be 25. They\§tflu$§xkhtnkxixhaa”enough sense anyway. Q. Rhlxxxsrsxnirstfix Somebody asked me if I had a romantic feeling for the men -9 a stranve thins, I didn't have a romantic feeling -- I was terribly concerned; they were almost like little boys to me, although some of them were old enouvh to he my father, but it was a diffferent feelinm. Oh, there were u lot of them that I was drawn more to one person than another, but I don't remember havinv any remember havinv any romantic feelinv at all. /———\ Cworkinp / You said before, that a larse part of your Job was not only anhi’ as a hostess, but tiaxiarxsxmx the friendship element..-. \. , -,, ,> , . {JfiYes, tsikiwxxwithxthnmx you talked with them, you didn't know when they were soins to leave -- they weren't allowed to tell you -- they would hens around and hang around. One thine I remember, it was such a little thins, but such a nice thins. One soldier didn't have anthM ‘v We probably were about the same age. Anyway, he wanted to give me something. I remember keeping the apple until it rotted and I couln't eat it. But you would know when they were goina, and they would hang around. And then at ninht I would lie and I could hear them marching to their trains. Taking them into New York to set on board ship and everythins would be so still, but you could hear that sound as of the feet marching. I could hear it even yet. It's funny how that stayed Just right with me, and it gave you an awful feeling and if it was someone you knew -- some of the boys who had been in there who were in that group would be going -- then it Just made you feel pretty bad. And once and awhile there was somebody that whistled, maybe to keep his spirits up, and then you would hear him pipe down, they weren' t allowed to whistle. They weren't supposed to make any noise. But you could hear thst\$g;gh) of feeti marching i;;;;nx tread of feet, pettinv on the train. Those were little things - like seeinq them with the bayonet and hearing that sound of the men marching -- that stay with you., Q. Did you sign.up for the duration of the war? phi I didn't sirm up, I Just went. Q But it was understand that you would stay in camp for the duration? f}{'.§23rgegjstgg 9E333é33 SESEE Egal§18 and as I say the camp wasn't completely finishid. Some of the men were still in tents and we /~ because - were lucky that our house was built‘V‘at least we were fairly sheltered because we were in this house. But I had the flu, hag/and it was Just not my time to die. I was very, very sick, Q. With the influenza? {tlees, with that terrible 1918 flu. I had that, and of course there was a shortaae of nurses, doctors. I had an Army doctor, this may sound romantic, but it wasn't -- he stayed with me all nith _(+.— and Just held onto my hands, and I can remember that so well because it almost felt -- he didn't think I was going to live ~- I was not supposed to , so he stayed there and, and he held my hand. It was Just as though I could feel the life from his own nu oomina throuprh to @5133: me. Q. What was your daily routine within the camp? {‘14 Well, we visited with the men. We had a place where we sold tobacco and stamps -- Just as a matter of convenience and we had a huge cafeteria. Of course the men ate in their own quarters.) but you know they have a bottomless pit, so they were over there all the time, and no matter what you were supposed to do, if somethinm happened, for instance, the bin dishwasher would go haywire, so we all would so in and wash dishes. You did what- ever was necessary. And if there was maybe a leak or something you mopped the floor. But most of the time it was fraternizing, you minht say, with the men —— talking with them. And then we did have dances now and then__ or parties more, it wasn't a dance. Something to sive them an outlet. Q. Your official Job title would have been hostess then? FRXHostess, that would be the category. Q. What did you get paid per month?. /—\ Id“ 825, but I had my board and room in indfidwof ocurse. It never occurred to me that that was anything -- it was perfectly alright. I was so enthralled with what'I‘wagodoinE931%Xnihiflkdl’/ BR£R§R£s$sgfiagéab§§gfi9$8§§gnsaggglgiaput I was involved. Q. Do you recalled what days, and hours per day you would put in? _’)- Q. You went to bed with taps? ¥J¥\Yes, and I got up with reveille. I didn't always maybe so to bed with tape. We put in long hours. And you did anythina that was to be done. But mostly it was talking with the men. And they played cards. In fact, I didn't know a thing about cards, I was no mood at cards whatever, not here, but later over at Soofield Barracks. They wanted you to sit down with them - LI'couldn't tell you all the different kinds of cards, I wouldn't \hardly/finow‘one from the other, but if you‘d sit down at one and 0f the table and play with the mroup and somebody would be behind ég) me to bid, you know to tell me what to do, and I didn't know anythina about it at all. Probably samblinq games I'm sure. I know they aambled. dut they weren't supposed to - they could use matches you know. Q. Did you wear uniforms or any special kind of clothinp? FMHNO, I didn't have a uniform. I had a picture of myself, I had a areen suit. Q. What lenath was the hemline? titThey were fairly lone. Just about min-calf. Q. Didn“t the hemlines so up doins the war? pfifiWell, not like they did recently. I remember when I was doing to Columbia, when I was going to school, I took the streetcar. There was a streetcar that ran one block from where I lived and I had to take that to the subway and they had what they call hobbleskirts. They Were so tiaht, and I had to hobble to the car to set on. The conductor was in the middle and you put your money in there. I remember once I didn't make it and I sprawled the full lenqath M3— and Just about ruined it. But that was between l9lh and 18. Somewhere in there. I You said you called your green suit your lucky suit? I had a suit with a skirt and coat, and I always thounht that was lucky. I don't know why. This man iégx who later became president of the Burlington - CQ&Q —- he was Just a young flier there and I don‘t remember how we met. I suppose in our hostess house, and so I asked if he could take me up to fly. Oh course he would of been oourt-martialfed and I don't know what would have happend to me, but anyway,(h85ga$§’fiy friends saidr don't so you'll be killed.” Well, I said\ygujiiniggggggigfiout me because you're afraid that they'll ask you if you knew that I was roinm. That's all you're worried about. So he took me up and we flew out over[:.._..?... .zj, I remember I wanted to ask him something and I said limxxntnxxtmx p§;;;;;h;;§§btx what is that, iimxxninxxtmxnutxmxxxwuxxnuxxx \_~___,,s I wanted to put my head down and pretty nearly had my arm cut off. The wind was so strong. I soon took it in and I didn't move asain. .You flew‘over New York? We went out over Lona Island-over what would be fixgaflstundxiax Great South Bay and the Ocean -- on that side. The south side. We had a little flirht -- not too lone, but it was a thrill. It was onen cockpit, you know. My Iggggfl friend, she was Just in tears -- she was sure I was soinr to be killed. She'd have to tell. I said that was all she was worried about -- not me, she'd get the dickens for not tellingfifitwas doinn it. iannxxun quitsxsxx8wX31mnsxaxxexxthstx I heard from him artetfififigij quite a few times. He was an engineer. I must of run into enaineers with- I. ’ \ 'llv..\ L- ~ \ \ out knowins it. He was an ennineer, and was finally president _.// hflflg aof the CB & Q ’ It was funny, one day when my husband and I were ;*\*~ living here, there was a big piece in the Sunday paper that showed -- they came in on private cars, you know, the CB & Q, and I don't remember what other railroads there were, and it gave his named and I was Just dying to call him and I decided noJI wouldn't do it. Q. I up wonder how many women had pone up in an airplane in 1918? [2A0 k’spcrmw] Q. Was there i any special training before you went to work as a hostess? Did they have a course? pJXtNo, I don't remembephavinn any.—-Any training for at all. And I can't remember how I found out that they, of course I knew that people were goina and helpins out, but I don't remember how I found out about the group that I worked with. Q. Through the church perhaps? pyh Not my own particular parish church. I Just don't remember.‘ Through school I may have heard of it. Q. What were the other women, did they have similar backarounds, were they mostly collese-educated, and Catholics, I would assume? :ATWell, the woman who was in charge was very prissy, I had to be very careful. I don't think she ever approved of me. She thought I should be older, that I was too young to be there. She was probably ripht. She kept her eye on me, I'm sure, all the time to @aee that I wasn't doinnr thinrrs I shouldn't be doins. She had been a socialite really. A lot of people like that went into that work. I don't if she was paid or not. I would say we had about a half a dozen people on our staff, and most of them I think -would have been college people. They were all ton-notch people. Q. a“ Q. «to —/ What was your father's reaction to your work? I think my father must have been a little bit proud of me. I think he wa He wasn't the kind of person .... he would sit on éé§f§$ told me “never mind your ancestors, Just be sure you're a need ancestor!’ He would be more apt to say that if he thought I was getting out of hand, but I thin he probably was proud of_me. He never questgioned it at all. _Was he supportive? -Yesixhe was. My sister,I think)was w supportive while I was down there, I don't think she really approved too much of my doing it and besides I think I not away from her. She had picked my college, you see, and I got wxax‘ away from that- I never thought or realized that until time \_,/ paxtndxandx went on and thinns happened, and pieced things together but I never thought about it much then, and as I say, I had the flu andfgggjcamp was quarantined -- nobody could no in or out. But when I got over the flu, and was on my feet apa1n\{%§%§q3%$§n§ 23g iiifiigflJnsx And when I was well enouqh they gave me about a month, so I went home. But I was on my feet. However,she told me they burned all my clothes.— fhat they thought they would spread the disease, and I exmpect people did feel that wayfipnfbdbfi{t remember them doing it, but she told me they burned all my clothes, and then when I came backcgg’duty they had filled my place and I wentto Camp Upton which is farther out on Long Island. Were you hostess for officers, and enlisted men both? . Yes, there was no discrimination. It was mostly enlisted men. Yes, they would be more apt to come in than the officers would. I don't remember any discrimination at all, until later. I found out when I was at the reaular army place, in Scofield Barracks -- there was discrimination there. You did mention racial preJudice at Camp Upton, I believe? F11) Yes. The last year I was there, I was there until 1919, really, the last men who had come back from overseas, and at the very end, they brought back the complete black resiment.and I told you that I was sitting here one ninht-- I had Channel 19 on-- and looking, and all of a sudden it said the‘Men of Bronze? it was the story of the black regiment. Iw was there at camp when they cleared out all the white trOOps and brought in thekgigfifijrewiment from overseas. They marched them down annex Fifth Avenue and qave them a little applause and then they brought them there to camp to be discharged from there, and so it was full of black soldiers all the time. I feel very keenly about the black issue. ixhadxttxhsxax So of course when I saw that on the screen, and it showed them marching down 5th Ave., and it said they went to Camp Uptonoa,I was bus-eyed, thinking who was it, of course I had been there when they were there, and there was no trouble whatever, no trouble whatever, and I have since read that even Pershinm -- they didn't want the black troops at all. They said theycgggéggl%iéht, and this and that, andCBgQ§§g£// the officers overseas wanted them to attach to their units, and so they attached them to the French, because the French at that time were in a very bad spot. I can't remember the particular place now and they were havins a terrible time, and as I told you, they're used to workinq with the -- they had so many colonies in Africa, they were used to workins with the blacks, and the French were so tickled to death to wet the black reviment when they were over there, so they were attached to the French a wood part of the time they were over there -- not all the time, but a good part of the time originally, and helped the French. I was proud of them,_. How long were the returning soldiers finithe 02mp, coming back from ' ‘ you 0 much hostess work with Europe before they were discharred? ,s‘m a. -'ll -’ them? Yes, nxxxnuxaxx Did you notice a difference between the men that were there after training andxbesnx before they went overseas, and those that were comind back? 8 ¥J¥You mean, whether they had grown uégfi’ft was funny, but a boy that I had known at Columbia came back and we were having sign a dance and he came in and saw me and he was so surprised to see me and I was surprised to see him too, He had a lot of social life... we were supposed to do that, make things interestingfiggfidfigfiging the daytime of course,' BEEwH§§eitaxaa cards and things like that. Q. What was your friends reaction? :fiHI'Fancy seeing you hereJEfiIbaghxt/know, I don't remember what hkfix he said, but he was surprised anyway, I was Surprised to see, Q. Did they want to talk to you about what they'd experienced? \\ No, I danitxbstisxsxsnx can't say...there was one of the women __.__.—r« who worked with us, that was their there on the staff, had a son ' and he was one of the younger of the boys that went over, and when he came back -- he finally died, he was in awfully bad shape, and I remember how upset I was, because I knew his mother, and he was in and out of our place so much. Q. Was he wounded? flthes.. And of course I was terribly upset over that, and really I didn't see much of the wounded there as I did later When I' worked in the hospitals, you see. I didn't see so much of that. Of course, the men were all eager to get home, and they were fairly light-hearted because of the fact that they were back in the United States and ready -13 _ to be discharged, so they were not too down in the mouth. One incident you had related earlier about how the war really came home to you, would you describe that again? W Well, I was curious because of being new I wanted to know about everyt that was going on, so I heard these people outside -- there was a parade ground I guess, I was curious to know what was going on, so I for ( went to the window and looked and watched. And I watchedya’eouple 06% I h f I Jr e ore equally 88” them spearins the dummy — I don't remember seeing it at first or I'm sure I wouldn't have looked after that.. so I saw 1 I was so interested in everything -- it was a new experience and I wanted to know about exertxx everything; so he would give the command Just like a segrgeant would, in no uncertain terms.sh,He'd say something, itiook me a couple of days to figure out what he was saying, and I thought, and I still think that what he was saying was Iget ready to growl". That's what it sounded like,m because they would make these awful sounds, and then they'd charge with their bayonets. I was upstairs you see, inside the house and they were down.on the ground. Rxxixfixixthtnkx But I think that's what they said, and when it suddenly came over me that's what-he was saying and that”{§§§§§,they were traininr bayonefit practice -— that Just petrified me. I never looked out the window apain after that. I was terribly upset S£§S§