Interview of Alice Nordly on her service in the U.S. Army Nurse Corps during WWII Neola Spackman: This is continuing with the tapes for WOSL Orange County unit and I’m going to interview Alice Nordly, and I will let her tell you who she is. Alice Nordly: Yes, I’m Alice Nordly. I resided in Los Angeles at the time of my – uh, that I went into the Service. I w-, took my oath of office at – on February the 23rd in 1942 in the, uh, Army Nurse Corps, uh, Reserve with, uh, the 2nd Lieutenant rank – relative rank because it came under the Red Cross and we were not regular army. The oath was taken at the Federal Post Office Building on the 14th floor, uh, in Los Angeles and, um, uh, by Lieutenant Colonel [Allen 0:52] from the medical corps. He was in charge of the saw-, southern California medical – m-, military district. Tsk. And, uh, I served – uh, the unit was activated, uh, uh, in March, uh, 16, 1942, and my date of separation was, uh, February 4, 1946, so that was just short of 2 years – I mean 4 years. Neola Spackman: [1:24] What unit did you serve – uh, what unit did you go overseas with? Alice Nordly: Uh, we were with the 73rd Evac Hospital, and it was organized in the summer of 1940 by Colonel Albert McEvers. He was the commanding officer, but it was not really activated until January of ’42. Neola Spackman: [1:44] And where was it activated? Alice Nordly: It was activated d-, h-, in Los Angeles, and there were a staff of 52 doctors and about 52 nurses. The doctors all came from the Los Angeles County Hospital, and – or affiliated staff from the hospital, uh, you know, that were in the local area, and the nurses all came from the major hospitals in the local area. Uh, so, uh, we then went – uh, we – when were activated, we went to Camp s-, uh, Luis Obispo in, uh, March – on March 16th in 1942, and we were there for 53 days. We were um – uh, went up by train, the whole group of us, and, uh, we, we had – at that time, our salary was $70 in subsistence and clothing issue. And while we were at this – uh, at the Camp San Luis Obispo, we received, of course, our immunization for smallpox, typhoid, tetanus, and yellow fever, and we had our, uh, clothing issues. Uh, uh, are you interested in our – what… Neola Spackman: Yes. Alice Nordly: ...our clothing issues were? Neola Spackman: Yes, I am. Alice Nordly: I listed them all, all here, and I think it’s kind of interesting because we had several changes, uh, and th-, our original, uh, one was of the dark blue, uh, wool, uh, dress uniform and the skirt was teal and the top was a, a dark blue with a, a kind of a wine trim on the jacket, a grade, and we had a navy, heavy overcoat, uh, a cape which was lined with w-, uh, kind of a wine color, and the cap and the tights and the accessories that went with that. Tsk, we also got gas masks and helmets and bedrolls, a canvas utility bag, canteens, mess kits, and all the equipment for our field unit. Tsk, uh. We then later received some blue seersucker, uh, dresses, uh, n-, like a uniform, uh, t‑, uh, too. Uh, we had, uh, our white uniforms. We were issued white uniforms as well. Neola Spackman: [4:14] Were they the, uh, WWI issue… Alice Nordly: Well… Neola Spackman: …that had the long, pointed collars and the… Alice Nordly: Yes, yes… Neola Spackman: ...[crease 4:21] down the front? [laughter] Alice Nordly: …the WWI issues, that real o-, old… Neola Spackman: With the wide belt? Alice Nordly: …style and with the wide belt. Mm-hm. And, uh, of course they made some improvements later on. Tsk, but, uh, the interesting part of it was that when we were here at San Luis Obispo, we went on a bivouac. And what do you think we wore on the bivouac? Our white uniforms and shoes. And we were dressed, uh, w-, with those but we h-, and our white shoes, but we wore our helmets and our gas masks just in case. [laughter] Neola Spackman: [laughter] [4:54] What made you decide to go into active duty? Alice Nordly: Well, I was, uh, more or less, uh, recruited by some of the local doctors. I had been, um, working in, um, Chicago at, uh, Illinois [reserve 5:09] for about 6 months and I practically froze to death, so I came back here and, um, they were at that time trying to recruit nurses from the local hospitals and of course, I had worked here before so I knew some of the doctors and it seemed that they thought I was just the right material for the – to join the Service, so I finally did. Neola Spackman: [5:33] Did you have any other members of your family in the Service at that time? Alice Nordly: No, no. No. Neola Spackman: [5:38] Um. Prior to going o-, on active duty, you had been working as a registered nurse? Alice Nordly: Yes, I worked as a registered nurse. Uh, I did private duty in Minneapolis for a while and then I had worked in the Los Ann-, um, the California hospital here, but I went back to Chicago and worked for 6 months pr-, just previous to it, so I had been doing general duty, uh, there. [throat clearing] Neola Spackman: [6:09] Uh, did you expect any of the experiences you were gonna have in the military service to further your career in nursing or did you just, uh… Alice Nordly: No, I… Neola Spackman: …not even think about that part of it? Alice Nordly: …I was not thinking about that at all. I just m-, felt that I, I was, uh, was free as anybody else to go in and there was no reason why I shouldn’t serve as long as the other people needed to, and the boys were going and everything, so I, I felt it was more or less my duty to go. Neola Spackman: [6:39] Did anything that you did in the Service or learned in the Service help you in any way after you got out in your nursing career? Alice Nordly: Well, I don’t know whether it did or didn’t, uh, particularly. It probably changed my life quite a bit because you can’t, uh, go through four years of a army career and – uh, or, or the experiences that we had without changing your attitude. Who knows how much it would’ve changed? Another thing that, uh, probably changed it, I did go through on the G.I. and finished my, my col-, uh, got my B.S., uh, from USC at – on, uh, the veteran’s bill, so I, I did change that. Neola Spackman: [7:24] You did take advantage of the G.I. bill then? Alice Nordly: I did take advantage of the G.I. bill [coughing]. It was very helpful to me. Neola Spackman: You were fortunate to be in a place where you could do it and in a position where it were possible to [inaudible 7:36]. Alice Nordly: Well, I went to work for the, the Board of Education a-, as a school nurse and my qualifications were not, uh, uh, sufficient to qualify, uh, as, as I was supposed to, so I was more or less compelled to it. But, uh, on the other hand, I got my public health, uh… Neola Spackman: Certificate [too 7:59]. Alice Nordly: …certificate… Neola Spackman: Mm-hm. Alice Nordly: …through that and I was very grateful for it. It, it has helped me [coughing] [inaudible 8:05] ever since. Neola Spackman: Mm-hm. [8:07] Did you find that there was any, uh, discrimination about the fact that you were a female veteran as compared to a male veteran when it came to the G.I. bill? Alice Nordly: I didn’t feel that there was. I had no problem whatever about, about using the… Neola Spackman: Nobody ever… Alice Nordly: …the bill. Neola Spackman: …nobody ever said, uh, you aren’t a veteran? [laughter] Alice Nordly: No, no. Nobody ever had a-, I never had any problem at all. I, I used it freely and, uh, it only took me nine years of, uh, night schools, summer, and, uh, [laughter] extension courses to g-, to attain my goal. Neola Spackman: [8:43] Because you worked all the while that you were… Alice Nordly: ‘Cause I was working all the time. Neola Spackman: Mm-hm. [8:47] You worked full time while you were going to school. Alice Nordly: Yes. Neola Spackman: [throat clearing] [8:52] Now, um, what kinda housing did you have in the States as… Alice Nordly: Well, uh, when we – we li-, when we were at San Luis Obispo, why we of course had, uh – uh, lived in the barracks there, but then we – from there, we went to Sawtelle National Military Home in, in, uh, in Los Angeles and, um, there we, we lived in the psychiatric wards with bars on the windows and the baths were either taken in, uh, huge therapy tubs or – we used keys t-, where we had to use keys to turn the water on and off or else we had a shower room which was eight by eight feet, uh, in size. It contained four shower heads. There were no curtains, and again, the water was controlled by the use of keys. And we had a colonel at that particular time who felt that it was necessary for us to be k-, work up our endurance, so we slept on canvas army cots and, uh, uh, we had that all the time we were at Sawtelle. Neola Spackman: Did you sleep… Alice Nordly: We were, we were 12 in a room and we had our footlockers at the end of the cot, uh, uh, which held all our treasures and we had a metal, uh, wardrobe, uh, s-, for our clothing. Neola Spackman: [10:19] At, uh, San Luis Obispo did you have, uh, separate rooms in a big barracks or did you have an open bay type of sleeping facilities? Alice Nordly: Well, we had, uh, uh, w-, we, we had an open barrack but, uh, not as, uh, not as large as some of them. We had, we had some rooms that weren’t – uh, they weren’t all the same. Some of’m I think that are – when I – the one I had was only two in it. But, uh, it was the – it was a regular bed and, uh, really had no problem [inaudible 10:52]. Neola Spackman: [inaudible 10:54] Alice Nordly: While we were at Sawtelle, we got another clothing, uh, issue and this was a complete new change because they changed the colors and everything. And at this time, why, we switched to olive drab and we had issues of both the winter weight and the summer weight, uh, with all the accessories and, um, we also got, um, a beige, uh, summer weight, uh, uh, dress uniform. Uh, and course we got brown oxfords along with the – this issue. And at that same time, we also got, um, tsk, brown and white striped seersucker, which were supposed to be suitable, uh, uh, dresses, uh, which were like our duty uniform, in other words, with a cap. And, um. Neola Spackman: [11:50] Was that the wraparound type? Alice Nordly: The wraparound type of, uh, uh, of, uh, apron. It was more like an apron, really. And, uh, uh, we got that issue. And, um, tsk, uh, during the time we were there at, uh, at, at Sawtelle, we functioned more or less like a station hospital. We serviced the people that were training in the southern California area and there about 600 major surgical procedures as well as many [fractures]. [And 12:21], uh, the admiss-, uh, ad-, all the admiss-, medical admissions were made. There were about 470 that suffered from infectious hepatitis! Tsk. And they were due to prior immunizations with the yellow fever vaccine containing pooled human plasma. Neola Spackman: Made by [Lily 12:40]. [laughter] Alice Nordly: Hm, yeah. Mm-hm. Neola Spackman: [12:43] Did you – uh, what assignment did you have in the military? Were you in the operating room or in general wards? Alice Nordly: I was on, I was on general duty, uh, uh, for, uh, the whole [coughing] time. Tsk. Uh, let’s see here, I had that all written out here like I had it, but, uh, I was on general duty, uh, both medical and surgical, and in all different areas, uh, except that I, I did serve as a, a night supervisor, uh, uh, on medical wards, uh, when I – we got to Karachi, India, tsk, and… Neola Spackman: [13:28] What, what hours did you work? Did you have a…? Alice Nordly: Well, we had rotating, uh, uh, we had rotating hours. We had, uh, uh, three shifts usually. And, uh, no matter where we were, uh, we had the rotating shifts. Neola Spackman: [13:47] Did you move fairly frequently while you were overseas or did you stay in one location for a long time? Alice Nordly: Well, uh, after we left Fort Ord, which – we were there for 15 days, again. Uh, we were, uh, th-, we were at Sawtelle for seven months, then we went to Fort Ord and we were supposed to be preparing ourselves again for overseas duty a-, and we there for 15 days, and then we went to, uh, tsk, uh, the Hilton Hotel in, in Long Beach, uh, and w-, the nurses stayed there for 15 days but the men, of course, had to stay on an army post. And that was before we, we sailed overseas. Uh, we were gone, uh, at sea for 43 days. We boarded at San Pedro on the ship Monticello; it was an – uh, Italian, uh, transport that had been converted to a troop ship. And they called it a miracle ship because it, uh, w-, had no convoy and it only had 20 percent chance to get there. And the destination was unknown to most of us. Uh, s‑, I – uh, there was somebody that knew where we were going, but… Neola Spackman: Hopefully. [laughter] Alice Nordly: …uh, th-, uh, there were 8000 passengers, uh, 700 crew. Uh, our crew – uh, we had, um, tsk, a general hospital and two evac hospitals, uh, among, uh, others; the quartermasters and engineers. Uh, we [throat clearing], um, tsk, crossed the equator, of course, and had the initiation of the pollywogs on deck, and there were a lot of people that m-, got seasick. We landed in New Zealand at – on February 6 and we were in port for two days there, and we had a, a trip out to look around. We were excited because we were told we were gonna ice cream and it turned out be iced milk. [throat clearing] And, um, uh, it was, uh, uh, when we went to the Tasmanian Sea, it was very rough at 20 feet of high, uh, uh, waves and, uh, it was so cold because we’d gone south to avoid the Jap activity. Uh, dishes were flying all around like mad. Tsk. Uh, and by February 17th, we got to Fremantle, Australia, and we were there in port for three days. One day we were able to get into Fremantle, and one day we went – we were – had shore leave to Perth, and the third day they didn’t permit us to, uh, go ashore at all. We just watched, uh, all the ships in, in port, and there were ships from everywhere. Uh, we were escorted by a destroyer and a plane leaving these various ports, uh, because of the activity – uh, the Japanese activity. We landed in Bombay on March the 4th in 1943, uh, and, um, we had one day, uh, uh, in Bombay. Uh, we had a chance to, uh, visit the Taj Mahal hotel and some of us had, uh, a little activity going on there. We saw many people that were dressed in colorful saris and, uh, well, [inaudible 17:36] and cared for natives, but en route, we had also seen – uh, had a chance to see, uh, uh, the, uh, untouchables and the purple – uh, the, uh, uh, low, lower caste Indians and, uh, we were actually introduced to the caste system. There were so many of’m. Uh, the, the beggars were everywhere. Uh, dirty youngsters was pi-, uh, looked pitiful. S-, uh, they were just skin and bones and ulcerations on their legs, and I’ll never forget how some of’m were crippled and crawling on their hands and knees. Tsk. We then went to – the nurses were then sent to, uh, Pune, India. We went by way of train and, uh, we were there for five days. It gave us a chance to, uh, to clean up our clothes and get ourself organized a little bit. We had some social activity there because there was some British, uh, soldiers, uh, uh, located there. We were able to do a little shopping. This is where Gandhi lived and was on his fasting, uh, tsk, at that particular time and they – he was so ill they thought he might even die. Tsk. After that, we, uh, took – on March the 8th – by March the 8th, we were en route on the train for eight days going to our, our location in Margherita, and, uh, uh, we traveled, uh, across India and the rapport of [us in our 19:27] compartment – this is quite a unique experience because there were no, no passageway between the two – the cars, so every time we wanted to eat or anything, we had to get out and, uh, get our food at the side of the train, and, uh, w-, we would eat out of our mess kits and, um, uh, also we w-, washed our mess kits in huge containers of hot water before we got back on our, uh, on our cars – our trains. And our food supply was very – it varied a great deal depending upon what the British had delivered. One breakfast we had baked beans in – of the canned variety and pear sauce. Uh, and of course at each stop there were always, uh, a lot of natives asking for [bucksies 20:24] and, uh, uh, whole families would be there with absolutely no clothing. And, uh, some of the boys would – particularly would be running around with a just a string around their waist and it had some kind of religious significance. Neola Spackman: [20:46] What would be the American interpretation of [bucksies 20:48]? Alice Nordly: [Bucksies 20:49] would be um, you know, beggars. Neola Spackman: Handouts. Alice Nordly: Beggars. Hang-, handout. Yeah, they wanted money. They wanted money or something to eat or something. It just, uh, uh, really just beggars is what they were. ‘Course, that, uh, that was a, uh, that’s their caste, you know, the untouchables. Neola Spackman: Yeah. Alice Nordly: That’s what they’re supposed to do. That’s, uh, and the, the untouchables are beggars so that is perfectly normal for them. That’s – uh, all they ever do is, uh. We went through – uh, uh, as we got nearer to Calcutta, we went – we got into more vegetation with some, uh, banana trees and bamboo, monkeys and there were elephants in the backyards [doing tour 21:39]. And, um, uh, w-, our train, w-, uh – we changed to the narrow-gauge trains and we crossed the Ganges River and, um, tsk, uh, then we finally got on a – uh, the Brahmaputra River, uh, on a boat called the [inaudible 22:02] and, um, tsk, uh, we had – uh, it was pretty small so there were very few cabins on it, and most of the people had to sleep on – in their sleeping bags on the deck. Uh, there a few cabins, but, uh, we went on this for a while then we w-, we finally got to Guwahati, uh, where we stopped in a, in a, uh, tsk, in a Baptist mission. It had, uh – it was a, a Baptist mission and finally, uh, was taken over by the army and, um, tsk, it was practically a year to the day when we – a year and a day when we finally got to Margherita in Assam province from the time we went into the Service. So, uh, uh, when we were – got to Ledo, uh, we had, uh, w-, we lived in, in – uh, the basha that I lived in was made of bamboo and it held 38 nurses. Actually, that – not a building, uh, uh, this basha was later converted to the hospital ward and when they were able to make more buildings, as they were building all the time, uh, why, uh, uh, then the – these wards that we – well, they turned out to be wards, uh, why then they became hospital, uh, uh – part of the hospital. And that took, uh, to April 26th for the hospital to open and, uh, so, uh, we moved into our new bashas, uh, a, a few days before that and, um, tsk, well we then had, um, two, two to a room and, um, um, a, a washroom at the back – a kind of a washroom at the back. But in our original buildings, we were 38 of us in the, in the basha, uh, to begin with and we had our, our bedrolls, uh, and, uh, as mattresses but we did have, um, beds with springs on it. Neola Spackman: Oh! Alice Nordly: We had beds with springs in but we didn’t – but we had our sleeping rolls… Neola Spackman: Uh-huh. Alice Nordly: …our canvas sleeping roll and, a, a sleeping bag on the cot – on this, uh, bed that – the single bed with a spring in it. Neola Spackman: [24:52] And all of your clothes in the sleeping bag? Alice Nordly: No, no… Neola Spackman: [24:55] No? [laughter] Alice Nordly: …no, we had our footlockers. We had our footlockers and, um, we finally got some metal, uh, metal things that, uh, to – wardrobe things to hang our clothes in, so, we did have that. And, um, tsk, we were – uh, we had slip trenches all around our, our, our area, and we were always alerted for Jap, uh, Jap, uh, patrols around. We started a Jap – a Chinese class, uh, in, in, April too soon after we got there and, um, uh, the – we serviced mostly troops, uh, in – uh, that were in the a-, in this area and they were – many of – most of the patients were Chinese soldiers and we had – but we had interpreters, uh, that were available attached to these units and we s-, we had a lot of malaria and dysentery and tropical ulcers and a fever called tsutsugamushi, uh, scrub typhus, and it was a very, um, difficult disease to control, and it was caused by a mite, of course, and many, uh, men – if the Americans and White personnel got it, it was practically almost fatal, but the k-, the natives seemed to be able to, um, to just… Neola Spackman: Shake it off. Alice Nordly: …shake it off better. Neola Spackman: [26:49] Did you have combat, uh, casualties there too or was it just mostly medical? Alice Nordly: Not much combat. M-, mostly medical here in this area. We really didn’t have an awful lot’a combat, uh, service. Most of ours was, uh, connected with people who were in, in Service and in the building of Ledo Road and there were, um, quartermasters and engineers that were building this road over time, you know… Neola Spackman: Mm-hm. Alice Nordly: …uh, for the Ledo Road, so, uh, we had a lot of, uh, diseases – uh, medical – mostly medical diseases… Neola Spackman: Yeah. Alice Nordly: …or accidents that happened. Neola Spackman: I can remember reading about the Ledo Road… Alice Nordly: Yes, yes. Neola Spackman: …and apparently it was quite a undertaking. Alice Nordly: Yes. It was over a thousand miles long then – uh, when they were done and finished but i-, i-, it was a, a – it was quite a place. Neola Spackman: [27:45] I wonder if it’s still in use. Alice Nordly: I don’t think it is. Uh, i-, you know that from the time – when we moved from, uh, Ledo to Shingbwiyang, it was raining so hard all the time that it took us a whole day to drive about 100 miles. They had to keep rebuilding the road as you went along and th-, they had to, uh, fill it in with, with tr-, tree trunks and things of that nature. It – uh, uh, rained just constantly on our whole trip up there. We went by, uh, by convoy in a, in a six-by-six, you know, and it was quite a tour, [inaudible 28:28] tell ya. We were in, in Ledo, Assam, for about one year. We were there a year and, uh, then we took this, uh, convoy and went up to Shingbwiyang, which was in the northern part of Burma, and here it was considered a combat, uh, zone. Uh. When we got there, why, we lived in tents for a while and, um, tsk, there were, uh, uh, four of us in a tent, and, uh, it w-, it rained so hard all the time. We had 626 inches of rain in 6 months’ time and it rained so much that they had trenches around the, around the tents so that, uh, it wouldn’t run back into the tent… Neola Spackman: Mm-hm. Alice Nordly: …itself – you know, there was trenches around. Tsk. And ‘course we had raincoats and rubber boots and, uh, uh, which we lived in [inaudible 29:28]. Neola Spackman: [29:28] What was the temperature? Alice Nordly: It was very hot. In fact, sometimes we’d get so hot that we – we didn’t care whether we – whether we wore – uh, got wet or not because, uh, we couldn’t stand to be wrapped up. Neola Spackman: It was more comfortable than the raincoat. Alice Nordly: Yeah. Yeah. The raincoats just got – we had raincoats that were, uh, sized for men anyhow, so they were always very big. We had, uh – it was an interesting place, though. This was in the thick of the jun-, the jungle and it was very beautiful and, uh, we had a lot of monkeys we could hear running around. Before we fini-, before we left, we fine-, they finally had built us some bashas, but we were so far out in the jungle that we were almost afraid. And, uh, our showers were built outside, tsk, in, uh, little tents, you know, uh, everything we had to – you know, to go to the bathroom, we had to walk, uh, about a block, you know. Neola Spackman: Oh yes. Alice Nordly: And, and, um, a-, at night, [laughter] it was very scary, you know. You didn’t really go to the bathroom at night, actually, because you… Neola Spackman: You hoped you didn’t have to. [laughter] Alice Nordly: [laughter] Anyway, there were – [coughing] you could hear all kinds of animals, jackals and animals and, and monkeys chattering away. Uh, uh, so we were, we were really kinda afraid and of course the, uh, the – it was so muddy out there all the time that we had to make, uh, bamboo walks – you know, instead of sidewalk, they had bamboo walks. Neola Spackman: Mm-hm. Alice Nordly: So, when you walked along those bamboo walks, it – say, you would get a little ratta-tat-tat, you know, as we walked along. [sniffing] After a while, they decided that, uh, this was the worst living conditions that any nurses ever had lived in, uh, up here in Burma, so, uh, quite a number of the nurses were transferred out and, um, some other people too, but, uh, I, I was t-, one of a group of about 10 people that was transferred to Karachi, India, and I – then I was assigned to the 181st General Hospital. Tsk, and, um, I was there for, uh, a total of nine months, uh, including two months that I had – uh, that I went to – on a detached service to, uh, Subathu, India, which was a U.S. Army rest camp [inaudible 32:05]. And that was a, a real interesting and, uh, wonderful rest to get there. Uh, we had, tsk, uh, we had, uh, one doctor there and two nurses and a bunch of corpsmen, and, uh, we had wonderful food. We had bearers take care of us and, uh, we were real happy to come out of the jungle and be able to go up there to that place. Neola Spackman: [32:35] Was your weather better there? Alice Nordly: Oh, it was great! It was just really wonderful. We, uh, uh, of course when we went to Karachi, uh, from – um, we had been in Burma, you know, where we had 626 inches of rain in 6 months’ time, and, uh, I can tell you exactly what the temperature was, but when we got to Karachi, of course, we never had rain ever and the temperature ran about 120 degrees. But you see, uh, uh, Subathu is up in the Punjab area and so we were up in the Himalayas and we really had a – uh, this was a real vacation. Neola Spackman: [44:14] Were all the personnel allowed to rotate through this, uh, detached service or just did, uh…? Alice Nordly: Well, they – no, not everybody. Uh, the strange part of it was, you know, that the nurses didn’t seem to want – a lot of the nurses didn’t want to go there. This friend of mine, uh, Dorothy, and I had been together the whole time and we thought it was great, but, uh, they had offered these, um, tsk, assignments to some of the nurses that had been there before and they didn’t seem to want to go, but we thought it was just great. We really had a real beautiful, uh, experience there. We went through Lahore and were able to stop there on the train and see some of the points of interest in Lahore, India, and [Guwahati 34:02] was beautiful and I don’t know how many people ever hear of Simla, but it’s a beautiful place, um, up in the mountains where people went for, for rest – uh, the natives, you know – uh, not the natives so much but the British went there. And, uh, we were able to – on our way back, w-, we took the – sort of a, a leave on our own and went to see the Taj and had a, an experience in Agra which was, uh, uh, not exactly army-related, but… Neola Spackman: Well that’s fun, too. [laughter] Alice Nordly: …but it – but, [laughter] but we had a really – a wonderful experience there. Neola Spackman: [34:46] Where were you when the war actually ended in, in, uh… Alice Nordly: [inaudible 34:52] Neola Spackman: …i-, in the – uh, in Asia? Alice Nordly: Well, I don’t know if it ever ended in Asia. We, we were, uh, um, we were rotate-, I was rote-, they started rotating back in May and, uh, uh, a-, as far as the part of India, there was not active service there, you know. And, and, uh, it wasn’t ‘til they had, uh, V-J Day, you know, which I was home at that time… Neola Spackman: [35:26] You were home at that time. Alice Nordly: …by that time, and I was in Casablanca on V-J Day trying to get home, but we were detained there because ETO was tryin’ to get of, uh, there, so we were delayed there. But, um, I, I – it took us quite a while to, uh, get away from Karachi because, um, uh, there was too many other people that were tryin’ to get home from the ETO. See, the, uh, tsk, uh, that rotation came in just about the time that we were coming home. Neola Spackman: [36:04] How many months did you spend in India? Or on overseas duty? Alice Nordly: I was gone for – I was gone, uh, overseas for 30 months altogether including transportation time. Neola Spackman: [36:16] Then you had perhaps six or eight months in the American – or in the United States [inaudible 36:21]? Alice Nordly: Well, I, I had, uh, I had, uh, just a few days short of four years’ service in all. Neola Spackman: [36:27] You got out shortly after you came back to the States? Alice Nordly: Um, well, I s-, I, I came home in, uh, July and then I went on duty at the Schick General Hospital in Clinton, Iowa, tsk, for a while, and then I had some, uh, leave afterwards, you know, that, uh, they, uh – so I didn’t – so my dis-, uh, my separation date was in February, uh, of, uh, ’46. Neola Spackman: [36:59] So then it was almost four years or it was four years. Alice Nordly: It w-, just, uh, well, it was just a little short of four years. I – actually it was four years as far as my oath was concerned but, but you see, I didn’t go on active service ‘til March 16th, so. Neola Spackman: [37:13] What kind of counseling did you receive from the Veteran’s Administration w-, when you got out of the Service. Alice Nordly: I never saw any of’m at all, actually ever. Neola Spackman: This was one of the things that, uh, they, they make such an issue of now. Alice Nordly: Yeah. Neola Spackman: And apparently in WWI and probably during the Korean War, the veterans were not counseled and particularly not the female veterans. Alice Nordly: I never even thought about it. I didn’t, uh, figure that I, uh, particularly needed any counseling but, but anyway. I forgot to turn this one on, didn’t I? Neola Spackman: Oh, I was thinking in terms of what they, uh, might have told you about what benefits you might have coming, uh, the G.I. Bill, uh, what to do… Alice Nordly: Well we… Neola Spackman: …with your service life insurance and things of this sort. Alice Nordly: No, we came through Fort Sheridan in Illinois and we were just given a reassignment to go to – um, we were supposed to have 30 days at our home and then we were to go to, uh, Miami on, on a detached service but, you see, during the time that I was, um, tsk, uh, home, uh, V-J Day came and so our orders were changed not to go to Miami anymore but to go to Clinton. And so then I went on active duty there but I didn’t stay there long, tsk, uh, because – uh, well, they would like to have had us stay longer, but, I mean, uh, there was several people that wanted us to remain in the Service, but, um, I, I was ready to leave, so, tsk, I didn’t avail myself of that privilege. [laughter] Neola Spackman: You weren’t among those that – now, those coming home from Europe… Alice Nordly: Yeah. Neola Spackman: …were literally shuffled out of the Service at the port of debarkation. They, they were discharged as they got off the ship. Alice Nordly: Oh really? Neola Spackman: It’s what it amounted to. Alice Nordly: Yeah. Neola Spackman: Whether they wanted to stay or not. Even some regular army, and they had to fight it… Alice Nordly: Oh really? Neola Spackman: …to stay on active duty. Alice Nordly: Oh my goodness. They, they begged us to stay on. The chief nurse at Clinton, uh, tried to get us to stay on. There were four of us that came from India and they called us the four musketeers, and, and she just begged us to stay on. Neola Spackman: I think there was a great deal of difference between those who were assigned to stateside hospitals and those that were just coming through the ports because the personnel at the ports were not military – I mean, were not medical… Alice Nordly: Hm. Neola Spackman: …and therefore, their, their job was to discharge everybody and send’m home. [laughter] Alice Nordly: Yeah, I suppo-, I suppose. Neola Spackman: Um. [throat clearing] [40:00] What did you find the most unpopular regulation that you encountered in the Service? Was there anything in particular that [bothered 40:08] you? Alice Nordly: Well, uh, uh, I suppose, uh, the, the thing that, that I always, um, got a little tired of was this continual hurrying up and waiting around for something and all this regulation. It never felt like you were on your own, you know, you had to – we always, uh – as, as if you didn’t really – weren’t even capable in thinking… Neola Spackman: [laughter] Alice Nordly: …for yourself at all, you know? Everything had to be done… Neola Spackman: Mm-hm. Alice Nordly: …done some other way. Neola Spackman: Yeah, do it the army’s way or don’t. Alice Nordly: Yeah. Mm-hm. Neola Spackman: Um. [40:51] Were there any things that you – well, other than they – trying to adjust to the military way of doing things, did you have any other great adjustment to have to make to going into military service? Living with a bunch of people instead of living in a room of your own and…? Alice Nordly: Tsk, well, I think that that’s always a little traumatic. Uh, we, uh, were thrown into positions where you had really no privacy for even dressing, you know, if you’d move into a barracks where you have, uh, uh, w-, 28 and 30 people in it, why, you’re about as, uh – um, you know, ‘course after a while, you get used to it. Uh, and showering and… Neola Spackman: Yep. Alice Nordly: …everything a-, a-, and in such, uh, public. ‘Course I’d been in nurse’s training, so it wasn’t all that strange to me. Neola Spackman: [41:37] But you’d had a period of time in between that you had been able to live as a human being with some privacy, no doubt. [laughter] Alice Nordly: Yes, yes, [laughter] I wasn’t quite accustomed to that. I don’t know that it was that traumatic to me. Neola Spackman: [41:50] And you stayed in nursing after you got out of the Service? Alice Nordly: Yes, I worked for the veterans for a little while and then I went into school nursing, and I worked at the – for – as a school nurse for 30 years before I retired. Neola Spackman: [42:06] If, uh, if you were to counsel a, a young nurse coming out of nurse’s training now and there was a, an emergency situation in the United States, would you s-, uh, convince them that they should go into military service or would you tell’m forget it, it’s not worth it? Alice Nordly: Tsk, well, I would say that it was an interesting experience. Uh, I had, uh, many very good experiences, and I had many experiences that were not so good. We lived under some very trying situations, about as, uh, rugged as anyone could possibly want to find anyplace, tsk, and I also had some experiences that were very pleasant and, um, and, uh, some beautiful things that we, uh, pl-, uh, [stopped 43:03]. We had – uh, I had practically all extremes I would say, tsk, so I’d – I think that, uh, [throat clearing] any experience like that is certainly worthwhile. Neola Spackman: [43:19] You – uh, do you feel that the people coming out of nursing schools now – of course, they don’t come out of nursing schools anymore they come out of college programs, uh, would be emotionally capable of handling the situations that we were put into? Alice Nordly: Tsk. Well, uh, that’s hard to say because, um, our experiences in life, uh, a long time ago w-, were quite different from what they are now and, um, I think that m-, my early life I was not accustomed to having a lot of the advantages that people have these days and, uh, tsk, so I think that – but I think if you really – uh, if they’re really put to it, uh, that they can do it. I do think they can – they could do it. Neola Spackman: [44:25] Now, is there anything else you want to add, Alice? Alice Nordly: Tsk, well, I think I’ve added quite a bit. I don’t have any – I can’t think of anything else. [coughing] Neola Spackman: Alright. Thank you very much. /ad