Interview of Hazel Christenson on her teaching life at the U.S. Army base in post-war Germany and Lansing, MI Elsie Hornbacher: This is Elsie Hornbacher from the Lansing Unit of WOSL interviewing Hazel Christenson of 2408 Devonshire, Lansing, Michigan 48910. Her telephone number is 517 (that’s the area code) and the number is 485-6608. She may be located at this address or by telephone as the number was given. Today is July 24, 1984. [0:39] Hazel, give a little bit of your background. Hazel Christenson: I was born and raised in Red Wing, Minnesota. I attended rural school and then was a graduate of the Red Wing High School in 1928. From there, I went to teacher training and received a certificate to teach in the rural schools of Minnesota in 1929. I taught there for 9 years, and then I went into elementary teaching in the city systems around Red Wing. In 1945, I came to Lansing, Michigan, where I was employed by the Lansing School System in the elementary grades. Elsie Hornbacher: [1:34] Hazel, what prompted you to go overseas? Hazel Christenson: A long time ago, when I was in high school, I was so fond of the books written by Richard Halliburton, The Royal Road to Romance, and I thought if ever I get a chance, I want to see some of the places I had read about. That was one reason. Another reason was that my parents were born in Sweden, and I thought if I ever go to Europe, I wanted to look up my aunts, uncles, and cousins there. Elsie Hornbacher: [2:10] And, um, what year did you go? Hazel Christenson: It was in 1951. I – I sailed on the George W. Goethals ship. It took 10 days, from August 17 to August 27, 1951 to reach South Hampton, England. Elsie Hornbacher: [2:32] How long did it take? Hazel Christenson: It took 10 days. Elsie Hornbacher: Ten. [2:37] Was the, uh, uh, trip over, uh, smooth? Hazel Christenson: It was very smooth. It took so long because they were avoiding mines that might have still been in the ocean. It was also carrying, uh, military personnel. We were – The teachers were in part of the ship. The military personnel were in the other. And we were segregated. Elsie Hornbacher: [3:04] Oh, you were segregated? Hazel Christenson: Yes. Elsie Hornbacher: [3:06] You didn’t even get a chance to play bridge with them? Hazel Christenson: No, we were segregated, and I could see them standing behind a rope, and I felt sorry for them. They were just huddled together, and they seemed to be longing to speak to some of us but we couldn't. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Uh, we could play bridge when we went over on various ships with the officers. I believe the enlisted men were segregated from us. Hazel Christenson: That could have been it, just the enlisted men. I'm not too sure on that. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. But I know I did play bridge with many of the officers. [3:40] Now in 1951, were they being sent over there as a part of the occupation forces? Hazel Christenson: Yes, I was part of the Dependent Schools, which meant that I taught the children of officers who were still stationed in Germany. My assignment was Bremerhaven, Germany. That was a big disappointment to me because I thought when I went I wanted to be near the mountains, and here I was hardly off the boat, [chuckle] so to speak, because Bremerhaven in on a coast. It's the port of embarkation and debarkation for the American personnel. And so after the initial disappointment, though, I had a very happy year, as the parents were so supportive and the children were fantastic. So I enjoyed my year very, very much. Elsie Hornbacher: Bremerhaven is cold in the winter. I've been up there. Hazel Christenson: It was cold because the winds come off the North Sea. It's very low, so there are no mountains to keep the winds away. It's sort of like Holland because there are dikes there also. Elsie Hornbacher: [4:53] Tell me a little bit about the nature of the school. Do you remember how many children you had? What grades you taught? Hazel Christenson: I was in one of the small – smaller school – school systems in Europe. There were only 5 high school teachers. The elementary system was a little bit larger. But I was given 3rd and 4th grade. I had from 27 children to 36 children during the year. Children would come and go as their parents were reassigned. Elsie Hornbacher: You said that you had the children of officers. [5:31] Didn’t you have the children of enlisted men too? Hazel Christenson: I believe the ch-, uh, enlisted men at that time were not allowed to have their families there. Elsie Hornbacher: Oh, this surprises me. Hazel Christenson: Not in Bremerhaven anyway. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. They probably would have been at another base. Hazel Christenson: Perhaps. Elsie Hornbacher: Um… Hazel Christenson: We were – We were, um – The school was housed in a former Nazi training school. The floors were just beautiful with, um, carpentry wood. Everything was just beautiful. The draperies were made of linen. I had a fantastically large desk, one that I would like to have had in every school I taught in. The officers who were in charge schools were very supportive. They would often come in and visit. They were so interested in the education of their children. The children were very polite. One thing I remember was their shoes were always shined. They always said yes, ma’am; no, ma’am. They never answered without using ma'am. We had German teachers also to help with the German language. They also took the children outdoors for recess, and I appreciated that so much because in the USA, I never had that privilege to have someone give me a rest period. The children came by bus from their homes, and they stayed during the noon hour and ate their lunch in the cafeteria. They could bring a sandwich if they wanted to. And I had to supervise them while they were eating, but as soon as they were through, they went outside on the playground, and the German teachers would take over, which gave me a more leisurely noon hour too, which I appreciated. Elsie Hornbacher: [7:27] Uh, who taught the children music or didn’t they have music? Hazel Christenson: Yes, we did have music for 1/2 hour to 45 minutes a day, and the music teacher in the high school taught it because the high school was very small, and she had time to do that. Elsie Hornbacher: I see. Hazel Christenson: We also had a special art teacher, and his name was Mr. [Tegetov 7:47]. He was – He was a – a graduate of the German schools and was very capable. He was also a Nazi, a very strong Nazi as far as we were told, but he was very, very nice, and we all liked him so much. Elsie Hornbacher: [8:07] He did speak English, did he not? Hazel Christenson: He did. He spoke English. Elsie Hornbacher: [8:09] And he taught the children art? Hazel Christenson: Mm-hm. Elsie Hornbacher: [8:11] Then you did involve some indigenous, uh, personnel, uh, to help in teaching of the children, is that it? Hazel Christenson: Yes. The librarian was also a German woman. Elsie Hornbacher: I see. Hazel Christenson: And she was very capable also. Elsie Hornbacher: [8:25] Did you associate with these people to some degree? Hazel Christenson: We did with some of them. Yes, we had meetings with some of them and invited them to our homes. And when we left to go home, the – the, um, elementary teachers were entertained by one of the school’s secretaries in her home, and she invited a friend from Bremen, who was a concert pianist, and he gave us a program of Mozart and Beethoven, and then she served us a wine punch, and I remember that so vividly. Elsie Hornbacher: [9:04] Uh, what was the nature of her home? Was it austere or, uh, delightful? Hazel Christenson: It was delightful. It was amazing to me that, having gone through all the war, some of the homes still maintained their original beauty. Elsie Hornbacher: Oh. Some grace. [9:21] The furniture all there? Hazel Christenson: Yes. Elsie Hornbacher: [9:34] The china? Hazel Christenson: Yes. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. You mentioned that one of your teachers, uh, was, uh, once a – an avid Nazi. [9:32] Uh, did he tell you anything that, uh, uh, stands out in your mind today? Hazel Christenson: No. I didn’t feel as though I should ask him anything. I didn’t ask, but it was just something that someone told me. Elsie Hornbacher: I see. Hazel Christenson: Mm-hm. Elsie Hornbacher: Uh, they, uh – We used to talk to the, uh, ladies who worked for us in the school in Austria… Hazel Christenson: [I see 9:52]. Elsie Hornbacher: …and they would come to our apartment and, uh, listen to the radio and tell us what the Russians had said. [9:59] Did you have any experience as of this nature? Hazel Christenson: Four of us were given a house to live in. We were given the whole house. It had 3 – It had 4 bedrooms, and we drew straws to see which bedroom we would each have. And then to take care of the housekeeping, we were given a maid, and she was a German lady, [Fravoti 10:22]. She was a refugee from Estonia. Estonia at that time was taken over by the Russians, and she had to flee the Russians to get to Germany and safety. And she said the only way she survived was that care packages were given to her from the USA, and she couldn't say enough good about the USA and what help she had gotten. So that year was quite a different year for me because we ate our breakfast at home, but we could leave the dishes, and when we got back, they would be cleaned; our beds would be made; the house would be cleaned. And when we gave a party, we could just leave the dishes and go to bed, and the next day when we came home, everything would be shipshape. She would wash the windows once a month even if it was cold out. In February, we had a cold spell, and I said, “Don’t bother about the windows today; it's too cold,” and she said, “Oh, yes, I have to because I see my friend is doing them next door,” and she would not be outdone by anyone. Elsie Hornbacher: Uh, you mentioned that, um, you were given a maid. [11:43] Didn’t you have to pay extra for one? Hazel Christenson: No, we did not have to pay. That was part of our blessings or benefits from… Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Hazel Christenson: …the government. Elsie Hornbacher: In Tokyo in 1949 to 1952, we had to pay for a maid service. So did we in Austria. Hazel Christenson: I see. Elsie Hornbacher: But it was, uh, uh, expected that we hire one of the people. [12:06] Uh, what about the people in Bremerhaven in 1951? Uh, were they well-fed? Were they well-clothed? Hazel Christenson: Yes, I could see no people who looked underfed or ill clothed. I did not have a great deal to do with the general public, but in the stores, they seemed just fine. But I did notice that they were behind us in many things. For instance, some of the stores downtown Bremerhaven had indoor toilets, but they were just like the outdoor ones, that is there was no plumbing. Elsie Hornbacher: [12:48] Oh, no flushing? Hazel Christenson: No flushing or plumbing but it was just housed in indoors. And one of the teachers also invited us to her home, and she had the same kind of a toilet. It was indoors, but it was like our outdoors – outdoor toilets were with just a hole… Elsie Hornbacher: [laughter] Hazel Christenson: …dug in the ground, but it was indoors as part of the house. Elsie Hornbacher: [13:10] Did they smell? Hazel Christenson: Yes, [chuckle] they did smell. Elsie Hornbacher: [13:14] I wonder if they used lime to [lay 13:17] the odor? Hazel Christenson: They could I suppose. Elsie Hornbacher: [13:19] Where there windows in them, in the rooms where they were housed? [laughter] Hazel Christenson: Not that I remember. But at least it was warm. [throat clearing] It was warm at least. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. [13:28] Now, um, uh, what about, uh, the temperature of the house that you lived in, were you warm in the winter? Hazel Christenson: Yes. We had a regular furnace, and I was as warm there as I was at home. Elsie Hornbacher: Hm. Hazel Christenson: It was a very comfortable year at school and at our house. Elsie Hornbacher: [13:43] Coal was, uh, plentiful there? Hazel Christenson: Yes. We – We had – Someone came by every day – A man came by every day to take care of the furnace. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. [13:52] He had to stoke – I mean, uh, actually shovel the… Hazel Christenson: Yes. Elsie Hornbacher: …and take the… Hazel Christenson: Mm-hm. Elsie Hornbacher: …shovel the coal in and take the ashes out… Hazel Christenson: Yes. Elsie Hornbacher: …each day? Hazel Christenson: Yes. Elsie Hornbacher: [13:59] No thermostat? Hazel Christenson: I don’t remember the thermostat… Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Hazel Christenson: …part. We probably had one. Elsie Hornbacher: [14:04] And probably a gravity feed? Hazel Christenson: Mm-hm. Elsie Hornbacher: [14:06] Um, did you get into any of the homes, Hazel? Hazel Christenson: No, I did not except for the teachers’. Elsie Hornbacher: [14:17] Uh, in 1951, it still was not, uh, acceptable was it? Uh, was fraternization frowned upon? Hazel Christenson: Yes, it was. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Hazel Christenson: Um, if, uh, the personnel would get too involved with civilians, they could lose their job. Elsie Hornbacher: I understand. Hazel Christenson: In fact, our principal lost his job for that very reason and… Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Hazel Christenson: …was sent home. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Uh, in, uh, actually about in 1953-54, they began to encourage association or fraternization between the Austrians and the Americans, but prior to that, it was frowned upon. Hazel Christenson: I see. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Uh, [throat clearing] I was invited to an Austrian home. I – In 1953-54, I believe, uh, it was the first push for the Germans and the Austrians to invite us into their homes. Hazel Christenson: I see. Elsie Hornbacher: They had a big, uh, move on to invite us there for Christmas vacation or for any special [time of the day 15:23] they had, but prior to that, uh, it was discouraged. Hazel Christenson: I did, uh, go to a Christmas program in Bremerhaven in a German elementary school, and that was very interesting. Although they sang the Christmas carols in German, they sang the same ones that we do here, and I recognized them. That was interesting. And then the whole school system, all the teachers that is, took a bus trip over to Bremen to see one of their new elementary schools, just a year old, and they started something that had never been done before and that was they had the open bookshelves for the first time. Before then children, um, going to the library or adults too, for that matter, would have to ask for the name of the book, and then the librarian would go and get it. But in this school, the library had open bookshelves, and that was – they were quite thrilled with that. Elsie Hornbacher: [16:29] Uh, was there any rubble in Bremerhaven? Hazel Christenson: Yes, there was lots of rubble. I passed by it every day. I usually walked to school. It was about a mile and a half, and I passed by much rubble, bricks. Well, just rubble. Things. Elsie Hornbacher: [16:49] What type of buildings were bombed? Uh, were they industrial buildings or homes or schools or hospitals? Do you know? Hazel Christenson: I imagine – The ones I passed were just stores. Elsie Hornbacher: [17:00] Just stores? Hazel Christenson: Yes. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Hazel Christenson: Mm-hm. Elsie Hornbacher: [17:02] Sort of a business section? Hazel Christenson: A business section. Yes. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Hazel Christenson: I didn’t notice any churches or anything like that bombed. Elsie Hornbacher: Hm. Hazel Christenson: I did attend a German church in Bremerhaven. And speaking about cold, it was cold. There was no heat at all. I wanted to see what a German church service was like and… Elsie Hornbacher: [17:24] Was it much like our church service? Hazel Christenson: It was much like ours. It was a… Elsie Hornbacher: [17:28] A Lutheran church? Hazel Christenson: …a Lutheran church. Elsie Hornbacher: [17:29] Lutheran? Hazel Christenson: Yes. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Hazel Christenson: But the only difference was it was very cold. No heat at all. Elsie Hornbacher: [17:34] Did people sit or stand? Hazel Christenson: They sat in pews. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Hazel Christenson: Yes. Elsie Hornbacher: [17:39] Um, did you have any particular medical care there? [17:46] What if you became ill. [17:47] Did you become ill at all that year? Hazel Christenson: No, I did not become ill. I – I did cut my finger, um, and I had to, uh, get a tetanus shot. That was the only medical need – need I needed. [chuckle] But I had a health – healthy year. Elsie Hornbacher: [18:06] Uh, eh, but were medical services available to you? Hazel Christenson: Yes. Eh, I did have, um, um, MESSA, as we call it, insurance from the MEA here in Michigan, but I could have gone to the medical hospitals provided by the service if I needed to. Elsie Hornbacher: [18:25] And they were free, weren’t they? Or a minimum charge of a dollar or 2 dollars? Hazel Christenson: I believe it. Mm-hm. Elsie Hornbacher: Uh, actually, our medical expenses were taken care of. Hazel Christenson: Yes, I wouldn't have had to have… Elsie Hornbacher: Of course [inaudible 18:36]. Hazel Christenson: …taken out extra… Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Hazel Christenson: …insurance had I known that. Elsie Hornbacher: [18:40] Uh, what was your pay, Hazel? Do you remember whether it was more or less than in the states? Hazel Christenson: I don’t remember what I was getting in [throat clearing] Lansing at the time, but my salary was $3825 a year. I didn’t understand, though, when I accepted it that that was for 12 months, and we did not work 12 months, so my pay for the year was much less because that would be $3825 divided by 12… Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Hazel Christenson: …and we only… Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Hazel Christenson: …taught 9 months. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Hazel Christenson: So it was not a high salary, but we did have free housing, and the travel on military trains was so inexpensive. The meals at the Officers’ Club were so low and [chuckle] and economical that it – it was just fine. But I think it was the only year in my life that I never saved a penny because I spent all I had on travel and buying things for the people back home. But even though the salary did not amount to as much as I had thought, I was very happy I went, and I call it one of my… Elsie Hornbacher: [19:52] But your sa-… Hazel Christenson: …best years of my life. [chuckle] Elsie Hornbacher: [19:54] But your salary at that, eh-eh, also included – You were on salary as soon as you started traveling, weren’t you? Hazel Christenson: Yes. Mm-hm. Elsie Hornbacher: [20:01] Which, uh, made – which probably gave you 10 months… Hazel Christenson: Probably. Elsie Hornbacher: …of pay. Hazel Christenson: Yes, probably. Mm-hm. Elsie Hornbacher: [20:08] Uh, because they did pay for the time that you… Hazel Christenson: Yes, probably. Elsie Hornbacher: …[inaudible 20:10]? [20:11] Um, did you go… Hazel Christenson: And also the travel across the ocean and back was free also, and my trunk was shipped free, so we had benefits that laypeople don’t usually have. Elsie Hornbacher: [20:25] And also anything you bought over there was shipped back home free? Hazel Christenson: Yes. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Hazel Christenson: Mm-hm. Elsie Hornbacher: [20:29] Um, did you experience any conflict between, uh, the military and, uh, the Department of Army Civilians? Hazel Christenson: The military personnel were very nice to me. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Hazel Christenson: And they invited me to their open houses and to their teas at the officers’ club, perhaps because… Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Hazel Christenson: …I had some of the children of the commanding officers. They were very, very nice to me. [throat clearing] Just about all the parents invited me to their home for dinner sometime during the year. They were very, very wonderful people as far as I personally was concerned. And when I left to go home in August of 1952, one of the parents I had brought down a dozen red roses for me, and she took them to my stateroom, but when she saw that I was in a room with 12 other women, she was amazed and astounded. She couldn't see how any teacher could be given such quarters. It was only because we were single. Married people were given good quarters… Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Hazel Christenson: …but single people were put together. There was no room for those roses. I had to put them on the dining room table because the room was so small. We were just – There was hardly room for our suitcases. They were just shoved under the beds. Elsie Hornbacher: [22:18] Uh, were you above water? That’s what really makes the difference. Was your stateroom above water or below? Hazel Christenson: It was above. Elsie Hornbacher: Above water. Hazel Christenson: It was above. Elsie Hornbacher: [22:28] Uh, you did have fresh air that could come into the room? Hazel Christenson: Yes, mm-hm. Elsie Hornbacher: [22:33] Was the trip back uneventful? Hazel Christenson: The trip back was on the, uh, SS LaGuardia. It was a ship belonging to Italy. It was leased by the US. And that ship was not like the Goethals. The Goethals was a navy ship, and that was beautifully maintained, but the LaGuardia was not. It was not as clean. There was water on the floor in the bathrooms. It was very different. Then, too, coming back, we had a big storm, and the ship heaved and heaved and heaved. We couldn't see the horizon even it heaved so, and all we saw was water all around us. And that time I was knocked to the floor and hit my head on a – on a post in the dining room, but nothing serious happened thankfully. But I was glad to see the Statue of Liberty when I came into New York on the way home. Elsie Hornbacher: [23:39] Did you have a year’s leave of absence from the Lansing School System? Hazel Christenson: I had a year’s leave of absence. And when I got back, I taught 5th grade at the Linden School. Elsie Hornbacher: Um, you came home because that was your agreement? [23:55] Would you have wanted to stay another year? Hazel Christenson: I had wanted to. Yeah, I was very ambivalent about it. I wanted to and yet I felt that I didn’t want to stay too long. One of the things is or was I missed the – my church activities. I went to church but spasmodically because we traveled a lot weekends. Th- The Army personnel did not care if we left on Friday and came back on Monday because they thought that was part of our education, which it was, and so because of that, I did not go to church very regularly, and I missed that, and also I thought it was kind of an unnatural life, and I didn’t want to give too many years to it. So, although I could have stayed, I decided to come home after a year. Elsie Hornbacher: [24:53] Hazel, had you done any traveling over there? Hazel Christenson: Yes, Elsie, I did. I was able to accomplish my goals of traveling a lot, and one of the places I wanted to see was the Matterhorn in Switzerland. So in the summer after school was out, I spent some time traveling in Switzerland and stayed in Zermatt several nights to see the Matterhorn, and also I went to Geneva, Montreux, Bern, Zurich, Interlaken. Riding the ski lift in Interlaken was a big thrill with my feet hanging down over the glaciers so to speak. It was a big thrill to me to see Switzerland especially. Of course, I saw Holland because that was very close to us. We could go there for weekends. Easter vacation, I went to Paris and saw a great deal there, museums, Eiffel Tower of course. And the summer before I came home, besides Switzerland, I went to England, and I was able to see South Pacific with Mary Martin on stage. But most of all, I guess, after Switzerland, my biggest thrill was to see my relatives in Sweden and to see where my mother was born and the church that she went to and the tombstones of my ancestors in the churchyard. So I did accomplish my goals of traveling and seeing Sweden, where my parents came from. I did not see my father’s birthplace, as his relatives were too old, and I had no way of looking them up at that time. It was a year to remember, but I was happy to get back to the USA. Elsie Hornbacher: Thank you, Hazel. /lo