Interview of retired Army Colonel Erna Thompson on her long career in the U.S. Army Nurse Corps Wilda Smith: Uh, today is, um, Tuesday, January 13. This is Wilda Smith interviewing Erna… Erna Thompson: Thompson. Wilda Smith: …Thompson, uh, better known in, in our unit as Tommy. And, uh, I – we both are members of the Women’s Overseas Service League. [0:25] Uh, Tommy, uh, tell us a little bit about your early life. Erna Thompson: Well, I was born in Minnesota. My father was a visiting pastor and I went to grade school in Ada and, uh. Wilda Smith: [0:40] Ada, Minnesota? Erna Thompson: Mm-hm. Wilda Smith: Mm-hm. Erna Thompson: And I, um, went to [inaudible 0:47] College and after that I went into, to Saint Paul, Minnesota to St. John’s Hospital School of Nursing. Wilda Smith: Mm-hm. Erna Thompson: And after I finished that, I went on to University of Chicago to proceed, get my interest in, in maternal and child health. Wilda Smith: Mm-hm. [1:06] Right after you got out of nursing school? Erna Thompson: Three months after training. Wilda Smith: Right. Uh-huh. Erna Thompson: After finishing my obligation, I went to school. Wilda Smith: [1:16] And did you get a degree as a result of going to Chicago? Erna Thompson: Well, yes, but I didn’t, it wasn’t honored right away. Wilda Smith: Oh. Erna Thompson: Because I had a BA in language [inaudible 1:28]… Wilda Smith: Oh. Erna Thompson: …and it was a science. Now I’m a science major. Wilda Smith: Okay. [laughter] Erna Thompson: So I had to earn 36 hours of science. Wilda Smith: Mm-hm. Erna Thompson: And I earned that after I’d done the army and I was stationed here at – oh, I better tell you I – after training in August, before I went in the army, in 1939 I married John R. Thompson. Wilda Smith: [1:55] In 1939? Erna Thompson: Yeah, mm-hm. Wilda Smith: Mm-hm. Erna Thompson: And then the war came along and it interrupted our life. I – so after he was drafted, I wrote to Eleanor – I was teaching obstetrics at Bethesda Hospital in Saint Paul, Minnesota. And I wrote to Eleanor Roosevelt and I told her that there was a law in congress that they were going to draft nurses, and if they were going to draft nurses I would like to know so I don’t sign a contract for another year. It isn’t fair to the students. [chuckle] So I got a bunch of paper and I filled them out and before you knew it, I was ordered to Fort Snelling for a physical and I was in the army. [chuckle] And that’s where I was assigned. Wilda Smith: [2:50] Now were they dra-, were you drafted? Erna Thompson: No, no. Wilda Smith: No. Erna Thompson: I just volunteered because I wrote to Eleanor. She told me what to do and I… Wilda Smith: [2:57] And she told you to go ahead and volunteer? Erna Thompson: Yes. She told me that was w-, wise to do that. Wilda Smith: Well, good, good. [3:04] And was that good advice? Erna Thompson: Yes, it was. I had a good career. I had an unusual career, but a good career. Wilda Smith: And so your husband was in the army. Erna Thompson: Yeah, and he was in Europe by then. Wilda Smith: Uh-huh. [3:16] And you were, where were you? Erna Thompson: At Camp, Camp Hale, Colorado. Wilda Smith: Okay. Erna Thompson: Setting up for the ski troopers. Wilda Smith: Oh, I see. [3:24] And how long were you there? Erna Thompson: [inaudible 3:24]. Well, was it 6? About, well, about 9, 10 months. And then they decided that I had to go. I was going to go on a hospital ship, but they found out John was in Europe, so they took me out and sent me to the South Pacific. And I went, I went to Fort Lawton for my basic, you know, the obstacle course and the foxhole [inaudible 3:54], and then boarded the ship and went to Guadalcanal. And we would just – did the, the basic first aid, that’s all, and transferred, got the patients back on ship or plane. Wilda Smith: Okay, now this was Guadalcanal. Erna Thompson: Yeah. Wilda Smith: [4:12] And this was what year? Erna Thompson: 1943 must have been – ’42. I, I don’t know. Wilda Smith: Okay. Well, it doesn’t matter, but I, I was just trying to… Erna Thompson: Yeah. Wilda Smith: …to find out. [4:26] When you were at Guadalcanal, were they fighting then in Guadalcanal? Erna Thompson: Oh sure. That’s right. Wilda Smith: Okay. Erna Thompson: Those were the big [inaudible 4:32]. And we were just onboard, we were just en route to the, um, Battle of Guam. We were going to be the first nurses on Guam, but we sidetracked here to do a little bit and then we went to Enewetak to stage to go into Guam. Wilda Smith: Oh, did you? Mm-hm. Erna Thompson: And we were the first nurses in Guam. Wilda Smith: First nurses into Guam at, during that battle. Erna Thompson: That’s right. And then, and then from – well, we, we did – we had some weird experiences, but nothing, nothing like if you’ve read the book And If I Perish that is by, written by 2 nurses who were in Europe. Wilda Smith: Mm-hm. Erna Thompson: Our experiences weren’t that bad. Wilda Smith: Well, first of all, I want to backtrack for a second. You said at Guadalcanal you just patched them up. Erna Thompson: We… Wilda Smith: [5:35] Was that…? Erna Thompson: Because they had [inaudible 5:38] because we were being followed going into, we were near… Wilda Smith: Mm-hm. Erna Thompson: …and they wanted some help immediately. Wilda Smith: Some medical assistance. Erna Thompson: That’s right. And we just – I happened to be operating room, so… Wilda Smith: Mm-hm. Erna Thompson: …that’s why I was in that mess. And we just, um, got as many as we could on our ship that we could load back and proceeded to the – I think it was near Enewetak where we stopped. Johnston Island is where the air force had a plane… Wilda Smith: Right. Erna Thompson: …and picked them up and took them to Hawaii. Wilda Smith: Okay. They, they took the wounded on to Hawaii. Erna Thompson: The casualties. Wilda Smith: [6:20] And you took care of’m on that ship… Erna Thompson: Yeah. Wilda Smith: …in transit… Erna Thompson: In transit, yeah. Wilda Smith: …a-, as you were going to Guam. Interesting, fascinating. Erna Thompson: And then we went to Enewetak and staged there and went to Guam. And we were on Guam when the – and we supported the 52 Bombers that flew into and the 3rd Marine Division. Wilda Smith: Okay. Erna Thompson: The, the, the 52 Bombers were the ones that bombed Iwo Jima. Wilda Smith: Mm-hm. Erna Thompson: And – I should say just Japan. And the, um, 33rd – the 3rd Marine Division went into, um, Iwo Jima, so we were – we got casualties from Iwo Jima. Wilda Smith: Into Iwo Jima. Erna Thompson: Yeah. Wilda Smith: My goodness. These, these are old names to me… Erna Thompson: Yeah. Wilda Smith: …from World War II. It’s wonderful. And you supported them then. Erna Thompson: That’s right. We, we, we did. Again, we – like we cast the burn patients, we dressed, and evac’d to Hawaii. Wilda Smith: Mm-hm. [7:43] And were you able to send anyone back to battle or were they all…? Erna Thompson: No. Wilda Smith: …so seriously hurt? Erna Thompson: I, I hate to tell you. The war, your war and my war are like [inaudible 7:55]. When we took casualties, the worst casualties were the ones they brought into the operating room. Wilda Smith: Okay. Erna Thompson: Now we are the ones who can ambulate, who we can patch up and send back, go first before the m-, m-, major cases come in, so that’s the difference. Wilda Smith: Mm-hm. Okay. Erna Thompson: We even Ja-, had Japanese come in and we had to give’m transfusions. That bothered me. Wilda Smith: [8:22] Oh, did it? Erna Thompson: Yes. Wilda Smith: Oh. Erna Thompson: Because the blood was so scarce and so precious and we had to, you know. Wilda Smith: Mm-hm. Okay. Erna Thompson: I shouldn’t add that. Wilda Smith: Well, no. No, it’s – everything is how you feel. [8:39] How did – did this affect how you felt about war or? Erna Thompson: No. Just, just the fact that we were using our limited blood supply on somebody that we’re shooting at. Wilda Smith: Mm-hm, mm-hm. Erna Thompson: I couldn’t figure that out in my mind. Wilda Smith: Mm-hm. Yeah. [8:55] Were you able to keep up with your husband during this time that you were…? Erna Thompson: He was in the European [inaudible 8:59]. Wilda Smith: [9:00] Could you write? Erna Thompson: Oh yeah. Wilda Smith: [9:01] I mean were you in…? Erna Thompson: [inaudible 9:01]. Have you ever had those, th-, those letters? Wilda Smith: No. Erna Thompson: He, he tried to tell me he was going to go to Normandy, you know, the invasion of Normandy. He’s writing and he – I have a sister, I mean I have a sister-in-law who has twins and the tins-, twins are named Kathy and Nancy. He says “You don’t remember my youngest twin, Nancy?” [laughter] I never got it that he was going to [inaudible 9:31] Normandy invasion. That went right over me. Wilda Smith: He, he was trying to give you code and, and you didn’t get it. Erna Thompson: No. Wilda Smith: Okay. [laughter] Erna Thompson: [inaudible 9:41]. But his letters did come, but they were so, um, marked out and so, so, such poor comfort for anybody. Wilda Smith: Mm-hm. [9:56] What about your letters to him, did he…? Erna Thompson: Same thing. Wilda Smith: Same thing. Mm-hm. Erna Thompson: The same thing. And it depends who, who, who’s read the letters. Wilda Smith: Uh-huh. Erna Thompson: Some guy would be kind and give you a little bit, the next one would just slash it to pieces, you know. Wilda Smith: Yeah, yeah. Erna Thompson: I think there you have to remember it’s just like nursing. If you, [chuckle] if you feel good and you do TLC and the next day you feel bad and you, you aren’t quite TLC-ing today. Wilda Smith: Yeah, yeah. And that’s the way they… Erna Thompson: Yeah. Wilda Smith: …they slashed the letters up. Erna Thompson: So I came home and I was discharged. Wilda Smith: Mm-hm. Erna Thompson: And I, my husband stayed career-wise and he, he was a signal officer and we went to Puerto Rico. Wilda Smith: Okay. [10:51] You were discharged in what year? Erna Thompson: 1945. Wilda Smith: Mm-hm. Erna Thompson: December. Wilda Smith: [10:57] And your husband became a, a…? Erna Thompson: Career. Wilda Smith: Career, okay. Erna Thompson: So I went to Puerto Rico with him. Wilda Smith: Mm-hm. Erna Thompson: And I was in Puerto Rico and I saw one of the doctors that was at Minnesota when I was there and he said “What are you doing here?” I said “I’m a wife.” And so I – he said “Well, we’re going to start dependent care.” I said “I’ll help you.” So I did, you know, just… Wilda Smith: Oh, just did it… Erna Thompson: …as a friend, yeah. Wilda Smith: …as a friend. Erna Thompson: Yeah. Wilda Smith: Okay. Erna Thompson: But in ’48, I came back to the – John was ordered back to the United States. We came to Fort Sam Houston. I saw Colonel [Short 11:38] because I wanted to keep my reserve commission. Wilda Smith: Mm-hm. Erna Thompson: She says “What do you do?” And I says “Maternal and child health, OB.” And she says “Oh, I’ll send you up to see Colonel [Simpson 11:48].” I went up to see Colonel [Simpson 11:52] at Brooke and I had an 8, almost 9-year assignment. I had orders all over the world and never left Brooke. Wilda Smith: Wait a minute. [12:04] You had, uh, you were active duty, though? Erna Thompson: Active duty. Wilda Smith: Act-, active duty reservist and you never left Brooke. Erna Thompson: Never left Brooke. Wilda Smith: Okay. For, for 9 years. Erna Thompson: In, in 1955, John came back from Korea. Wilda Smith: Mm-hm. Erna Thompson: And I felt that I owed him that. I’m going to – I asked to be [inaudible 12:26] to Chicago 5th Army Headquarters and they said training and education we don’t need. Wilda Smith: Mm-hm. Erna Thompson: I said with training and education, I can go back to teaching and I’ll get out. I got out. See, then you could get out with a marriage. I put in my marriage certificate and I got out. Wilda Smith: Okay. [12:45] And that – how many years did you have by that time? You had about, uh… Erna Thompson: Fifteen, I think. Well, ’42 to ’55, 15 years. Anyway,… Wilda Smith: A-, active duty. Erna Thompson: …it didn’t make any difference the length. My mission was to be a wife. Wilda Smith: Sure. Erna Thompson: And we went to Chicago and I went back to teaching and I had the privilege of setting up a preemie station for the Near Northside – oh, what is it? I can’t remember his name, Steinbeck or something like that. It was a marvelous – you know, ‘cause I had my neonatal training at the Michael Reese Hospital, which is a renowned neonatal center in mid Chicago. Wilda Smith: Mm-hm. Erna Thompson: So we set up a new neonatal center at Grant Hospital even [inaudible 13:44] in addition to my teaching duties. And then [chuckle] in ’57, John got orders to Hawaii. Wilda Smith: Oh. Erna Thompson: We went to Hawaii and we had barely got off the ship when the next day Daisy [inaudible 14:07], who was one of my chief nurses here at Brooke was chief nurse up and she says “You got to come to Hawaii.” I said “I don’t know.” I said “I got an appointment with Dean Adams. I’m keeping that appointment.” And I did keep it and, uh, I told Dean Adams “I’d like to discuss this with my husband and we’ll, I’ll give you an answer in, in a week.” Wilda Smith: Okay. [14:31] Now Dean Adams was in Chicago? Erna Thompson: No. Dean Adams was the Dean of Nursing at Hawaii. Wilda Smith: Oh. Erna Thompson: University of Hawaii. Wilda Smith: Okay. Erna Thompson: We were in Hawaii now. Wilda Smith: Okay, okay. Erna Thompson: And that night, well, I had told Daisy that was 2 weeks after I arrived that I had made my appointment, by that time I’d be settled. They came 2 weeks [chuckle] later with, oh gosh, [inaudible 15:02]. And she said “Now, Tommy, don’t you think you’d, you owe us something?” I said “Well, I think you owe me something if I’m that valuable that 2 of you come.” Wilda Smith: Sure. Erna Thompson: And, uh, but I did go back on active duty. Wilda Smith: So you went back on active duty in Hawaii. Erna Thompson: In Hawaii. Wilda Smith: [15:24] Where, at Tripler? Erna Thompson: Huh? Wilda Smith: [15:25] Were you at Tripler? Erna Thompson: At Tripler OB department. I got the students there anyway. [laughter] We made the arrangements with Hawaii. Wilda Smith: Okay. Erna Thompson: Well, my career was funny. Wilda Smith: Oh, it was. Erna Thompson: But I really had – I also was the speaker at the ANA Convention when they had the national convention at, in Hawaii. And I stayed in the army, um, till September of ’69, and then my husband had a heart attack and I said we’re going to go home. Well, anyway, from Hawaii we went to Fort Bragg. Wilda Smith: Mm-hm. Erna Thompson: And, uh, I got the students at Fort Bragg [inaudible 16:14]. Wilda Smith: [chuckle] [16:14] And you were still on duty then? Erna Thompson: Yeah, but I was, this was all on duty. Wilda Smith: Yeah. Erna Thompson: But I got the students from Highsmith Hospital. They did have an instructor, but I did all the preparations, wrote all the SOPs for student nurses, you know. Wilda Smith: Right. Erna Thompson: And then I – guess what? They cut my umbilical cord. I had to go – I was chief nurse to Puerto Rico. I nearly died. I called Washington. I said “I can’t understand it. You got a medical supervisor, you got a surgical supervisor. I – why don’t you leave me in my specialty?” “No. You got to go.” So I went to Puerto Rico. By this time John could retire. I said “You retire.” Wilda Smith: [16:58] So he came with you. Erna Thompson: “And you come with me. Be my escort.” Wilda Smith: Okay, okay. Erna Thompson: [inaudible 17:01]. [chuckle] And so he came with me. I was chief nurse in Puerto Rico from ’62 or ’63 to ’65, or ’62 to ’64, anyway. Wilda Smith: Wait a minute. Erna Thompson: Um. Wilda Smith: [17:17] Did you say you went in ’69 to Fort Bragg? Was that – or was that ’59? Ern Thompson: No, that was – I retired in ’69. Blank that statement out, that 69, you know. Wilda Smith: Oh, okay, okay. But you went to Fort Bragg. Erna Thompson: Yeah, I went to Fort Bragg. Wilda Smith: Yeah, just the… Erna Thompson: Not in ’69, no. Wilda Smith: …year was wrong. Erna Thompson: Yeah. Wilda Smith: Okay. And chief nurse in Puerto Rico. Erna Thompson: Yeah. Wilda Smith: [17:38] And then… Erna Thompson: And then from then they had the maternal and child health course in the army. Wilda Smith: Mm-hm. Erna Thompson: At El Paso. Wilda Smith: Right. Erna Thompson: I was director of that. Wilda Smith: Oh. [chuckle] Then you went to – [17:50] what is that base, Bragg? Erna Thompson: No. Wilda Smith: Oh. Erna Thompson: It’s, um, the hospital, Beaumont, Beaumont General Hospital. Wilda Smith: Beaumont General, okay. Erna Thompson: But I wasn’t assigned to the hospital, I was assigned to the… Wilda Smith: [18:04] Were you…? Erna Thompson: …education department. Wilda Smith: Okay. You weren’t at Beaumont. Erna Thompson: Yes. I was at Beaumont, that’s where we trained our nurses. Wilda Smith: Oh, oh, okay. Erna Thompson: But I wasn’t on the Beaumont nursing staff. Wilda Smith: Okay. You were a teacher there. Erna Thompson: Yeah. I was in the staffing area, education and staff. Wilda Smith: Okay. Erna Thompson: And I got to get, take my children, my, my OB girls up to Santa Fe to see some home deliveries and follow-up on postpartum care. And, uh, then from Puerto Rico – I mean then I called D.C. and I said this is not my cup of tea. Wilda Smith: Mm-hm. Erna Thompson: I want back in the hospital. I’m, I mean academia is cold water. Wilda Smith: Mm-hm, mm-hm. Erna Thompson: I, I, I got, at least got the kids to go to Santa Fe and I got the student, pediatric students into the program that the residents were so that they could get some depth. Wilda Smith: Right. Erna Thompson: And then I – they said “All right, we’ll send you out as chief nurse to Berlin.” [chuckle] Wilda Smith: [19:07] Were you in Berlin? Erna Thompson: I sure was a chief nurse in Berlin [laughter] from sixty – must have been ’66 ‘cause I extended. No, it was ’67. I don’t know. Wilda Smith: Okay, it doesn’t hurt. Erna Thompson: It doesn’t make any difference. From Berlin, John had his heart attack, the second one, and I decided I got to call Washington. I want to, want to retire, so I got out. I retired and came, brought John home. Wilda Smith: Mm-hm. Erna Thompson: That’s my career and that’s, that’s as spacey as you could get. Wilda Smith: That, that’s, uh, that’s fascinating. You did a lot of teaching. Erna Thompson: Yeah. Wilda Smith: But you didn’t like academia, straight academia. Erna Thompson: Well, straight academia is, is… Wilda Smith: Yeah. Erna Thompson: Well, especially in, when you have’m in the classroom and the only time you go into the, into the nursing [inaudible 20:04] when you take your students for a delivery, you know. Wilda Smith: Mm-hm. Erna Thompson: It’s not satisfying. I – it’s, it’s a brilliant idea for somebody who likes to find a lot of leisure time… Wilda Smith: Mm-hm, mm-hm. Erna Thompson: …and things like that. I’m just not – If I’m on duty, I’m on duty and I want to do something. Wilda Smith: Right. Want to be – yeah. [20:29] And so you really are the wife of a retired army officer and you are a retired army officer. Erna Thompson: That’s exactly right. Wilda Smith: Well, that’s a, that’s a double whammy, isn’t it? Erna Thompson: That’s right. Wilda Smith: [chuckle] Good for you, good for you. Erna Thompson: I, I married him long before I became a gentleman. [laughter] That’s what I tell everybody. Don’t take [inaudible 20:53]. Wilda Smith: [20:55] Well, you, uh, you were promoted to colonel before you retired, weren’t you? Erna Thompson: Mm-hm. Wilda Smith: Yeah. Erna Thompson: In 1968. Wilda Smith: Yeah. Well… Erna Thompson: [inaudible 21:03]. Wilda Smith: [throat clearing] That’s a wonderful life, Tommy, uh. Erna Thompson: Well, it’s different. Wilda Smith: Yeah. It is different. You were in and out and you were reserve the whole way then I guess. Erna Thompson: Oh, I never got [inaudible 21:14]. Well I, I really – just, just remember 34 years ago, OB was not liked by the average nurse. She came in to take care of the soldier. Wilda Smith: Right. Erna Thompson: And so to get people into OB, they had to almost beg’m. Those that liked it, liked it. And those that didn’t like it, [inaudible 21:41]. Wilda Smith: And you were qualified and they needed you. Erna Thompson: [inaudible 21:43] I did. I will say that I had Jean [inaudible 21:47], as you all know her. Wilda Smith: Yeah, I know Jean. Erna Thompson: Well, she was my head nurse on OB. Wilda Smith: Oh, was she? Erna Thompson: And she just cried when, when they sent her to OB. And I said “Jeanie”, I said “Just waste those, those are all wasted tears. You’re going to love it. I will help you.” See, because she – they had a head nurse, she had postpartum labor and delivery and nursery. Wilda Smith: Yeah. Where…? Erna Thompson: At Brooke. Wilda Smith: At Brooke, okay. Erna Thompson: We had 290 deliveries at that time. Wilda Smith: [chuckle] My god. Erna Thompson: And at Tripler we had 500 deliveries. Wilda Smith: [laughter] [22:24] In what length of time? You mean just on the ward at one time? I mean… Erna Thompson: Oh, yeah. No, in a month… Wilda Smith: In a month. Erna Thompson: …we’d have… Wilda Smith: Oh, okay. Erna Thompson: In a month we had 290 deliveries. Wilda Smith: And at, and at Tripler 500. Erna Thompson: I counted. But remember, Tripler has army, navy, air force, marines, and the, the civvies. Wilda Smith: Yeah. There were a lot of us there in the huge Tripler. Erna Thompson: So you had the whole thing and Tripler Army is an army hospital. I had air force nurses, I had navy nurses. Wilda Smith: Oh sure. Erna Thompson: And my chief was a, was a navy man. Wilda Smith: Well, that, that makes sense. Yeah. Erna Thompson: So it was… Wilda Smith: And they, and they had those beautiful, uh, outdoor lounges… Erna Thompson: Yeah. Wilda Smith: …where if you were a well patient, you could walk out and see the view. Erna Thompson: Yes, that’s right. Wilda Smith: Yeah. Beautiful hospital. Erna Thompson: It’s a beautiful place. Wilda Smith: Mm-hm. Erna Thompson: It really is. I really – I have never had a bad assignment. I – it did not make any difference to me. Wilda Smith: Okay. [23:25] Well, since you retired and, and after the death of your husband, what have you done? Have you been active in the community? Erna Thompson: Well, I, I’m doing something [inaudible 23:34]. Is that thing on yet? Wilda Smith: Yeah. It’s still on. W-, We’ll, we’ll talk as long… Erna Thompson: Well, anyway… Wilda Smith: …as we can keep it goin’. Erna Thompson: I did a, I did a, a lot of – at the SAM shelter. Wilda Smith: Oh yes. Erna Thompson: And… Wilda Smith: [23:48] And the SAM is the San Antonio Ministries? Erna Thompson: [inaudible 23:50]. And the other thing is the first couple years when John was still – that I didn’t have to spend all my time with him, I would go and on Friday afternoons had Planned Parenthood for the young ladies at Brooke. Wilda Smith: Very good. Erna Thompson: That was in ’69, ‘7-, no – ’70, ’71 to ’75. And then John had another episode and then I had to say that’s it. [inaudible 24:17] can’t do it. Wilda Smith: [24:21] But you were teaching Planned Parenthood to the, to the…? Erna Thompson: No. It’s just a clinic. It’s a Planned Parenthood clinic. Wilda Smith: Okay. Planned Parenthood. Erna Thompson: To let the girls get birth control and stuff like that and tell’m the facts of life. Wilda Smith: Sure. Erna Thompson: The enlisted personnel. [chuckle] So and then, guess what I’m doing now for the last 5 years? Wilda Smith: [24:44] What have you been doing? Erna Thompson: I’m a senior professor for the University of Texas. Wilda Smith: Oh. Erna Thompson: And I have 2 medical students come to visit me every month for 2 hours, 2 or 3 or 4 hours. And it’s a wonderful experience, wonderful experience. Wilda Smith: Okay. [25:02] What happens when they come to visit you? Erna Thompson: Well, we have a program set up. Wilda Smith: Yeah. Erna Thompson: They have a lot of questions to ask me. Wilda Smith: Right. Erna Thompson: This is geriatrics. [inaudible 25:10] familiar because that’s what they’re going to deal with when they get out of medical school. Wilda Smith: Oh. [laughter] Erna Thompson: It’s there in the handwriting on the wall. Wilda Smith: Oh. You’re not talking OB/GYN. Erna Thompson: No siree. Wilda Smith: You’re talking ge-… Erna Thompson: I’m talking about geriatrics. [laughter] That’s where I am now. I laugh and they have to write a critique [inaudible 25:28], you know. Every once in a while one of them will say “I thought I was going to go to the [inaudible 25:34] and I find a little old lady.” They said “Oh, what a shock. [laughter] She might be old and she may be little, but she sure was, was active.” Wilda Smith: Was full of it, wasn’t she? [laughter] Erna Thompson: But I love my – yeah. But I love the students and they know it and they, they enjoy it. They [inaudible 25:56]. Wilda Smith: [25:58] When do they come? Once a month you get a couple of’m? Erna Thompson: Once a month. They’re coming tomorrow afternoon from 2 to 5. Wilda Smith: Okay. [laughter] I think that’s great. [26:08] And what do they do? Ask you questions or what? Erna Thompson: Oh, they have pro-, we have a program, you know. Wilda Smith: Yeah. Erna Thompson: [inaudible 26:13] with, with medications. It talks with, um, um, um, well, about death. Wilda Smith: Mm-hm. Erna Thompson: They have to know about death. Wilda Smith: Mm-hm. Erna Thompson: Uh, it-, it’s what they’re scope is. What do they anticipate with the aging process? With youth, what do they feel about the aging process? They got this whole program that they can ask questions, and they have questions to ask me about my aging process, you know. Wilda Smith: That’s interesting. Erna Thompson: The modifications I’m on and so forth. Wilda Smith: And modifications you’ve made to your life. Erna Thompson: Yeah, mm-hm, yeah. Wilda Smith: Or, you know, like we were talking coming out… Erna Thompson: Yeah. Wilda Smith: …about driving at night and things. Interesting. Erna Thompson: But it’s, it’s a program I’ve – and my, my 1st years are already doctors, but the [inaudible 27:01]. And the 3rd year [inaudible 27:04] I got an engagement letter from them for Christmas [laughter] so they’re going to get married. Wilda Smith: [laughter] Well, you’re staying with them, um. Erna Thompson: I keep – I’m busy. I am busy. Wilda Smith: Yes. You are busy. I, I know that. And you’re active in, uh, WOSL and you go to… Erna Thompson: Oh, I’m not as active as I used to be. Wilda Smith: Well, you attend the meetings. Erna Thompson: Yeah. Wilda Smith: And you were… Erna Thompson: I really [inaudible 27:31]. Wilda Smith: …formerly very active. Erna Thompson: I did my – I started the flea markets. And when I was president of WOSL, I shook a couple of bushes, but not very much. Wilda Smith: [laughter] Well… Erna Thompson: And I was… Wilda Smith: And… Erna Thompson: I was national membership, membership. Wilda Smith: Oh, were you? Erna Thompson: Oh, I can’t remember who. Jackson was – Jackson and who was the treasurer? A little plump little lady ‘cause she’s the one I dealt with all the time, but anyway those are all things that… Wilda Smith: Things that you’ve done, that you’ve been active. Erna Thompson: And I took care of John for 12 years. They told me he’d live 2. Wilda Smith: And you got him to live 12. Erna Thompson: Yeah. And we cruised every year. Wilda Smith: [28:24] Where did you go? Erna Thompson: Well, we – one time we went from Miami – from Fort Lauderdale to San Francisco, 22 days. Wilda Smith: [laughter] Oh, that’s great, Erna. That’s great. You-, you’ve, you’re an inspiration to us all because you are so active and, and you’ve stayed with everything and, and I think you know that many of us think very highly of you. Erna Thompson: Well, thank you. Now… Wilda Smith: Well, she’ll try to call me anything. Yeah. Erna Thompson: But you, you were absolutely a gem. Wilda Smith: Oh, well, we better stop this right now because I don’t think… Erna Thompson: Well… Wilda Smith: …anybody would appreciate hearing all this. Erna Thompson: Being overseas is an enlightening experience… Wilda Smith: Right. Erna Thompson: …for people in obstetrics for the simple reason that these young soldiers come with their young brides and then they have a baby. And first of all, some of’m have never had, uh, even diapered a baby much less let it go to breast and so you have to teach every little thing about the baby to the mother. But there are some mothers that can’t bond, and we had that experience in Berlin. We, uh, I had a colored nurse who is very maternal. I told her to mother the baby, mother the mother first and then let the mother to handle the baby. And we, we really were successful stories. The baby thrived and the mother was able to be a good mother, a loving mother. Wilda Smith: That’s wonderful. That’s, that’s – and you had to do this quite a bit with these… Erna Thompson: Oh, well, with a lot of girls. Wilda Smith: A lot of the girls. Erna Thompson: They had… Wilda Smith: Yeah. Erna Thompson: They had – I think if you’re going to do maternal health nursing, you got to extend yourself. Wilda Smith: And… Erna Thompson: You got to extend yourself. Wilda Smith: You, you were talking about how different it used to be and, and women staying in the hospital… Erna Thompson: That’s right. Wilda Smith: …for up to 10 days before they had the baby. Erna Thompson: No. They were in the bed, they delivered their babies and 10 days later, no, 9 days later they’re flat in bed. They didn’t get up at all. Wilda Smith: Oh, they didn’t get up out of bed. Erna Thompson: Then on the 9th day they then moved their feet and the 10th day they got up and died of an embolism. That’s right. Wilda Smith: [chuckle] Not all of’m, but some of’m. [laughter] Erna Thompson: [inaudible 30:53]. Wilda Smith: But you’re saying that that was so archaic. Erna Thompson: [inaudible 31:02] that’s true because they didn’t move for 9, you know, that’s a vascular part of OB. That’s… Wilda Smith: Oh yeah. Erna Thompson: There’s a lot of blood down there. Wilda Smith: Yeah. Erna Thompson: And the clots do form particularly in the legs because they don’t move their legs. Wilda Smith: [31:18] Well, now what years were they doing that, uh, staying in bed…? Erna Thompson: I think… Wilda Smith: …so long after the birth? Erna Thompson: I think it… [pause] Wilda Smith: Let’s see. [31:28] It would be right after the war? Erna Thompson: [inaudible 21:29]. Wilda Smith: [31:30] Probably in the 50s, would it not? Erna Thompson: No, it would be before that. I would say [inaudible 31:38]. I was teaching in Chicago, we, we didn’t keep’m that long. We didn’t keep’m in bed that long, so I would say in the, uh, ‘55, that was ’55. Well, at Brooke they still were, were, we were gettin’m up right away, but we roomed in for a week. Wilda Smith: In… Erna Thompson: In other words, we started putting the baby into the room with the mother. But again, that’s another – you’d have to admonish your nurses that just because she’s in there, that if some mother is so nervous about that baby, she’s not going to get any rest. Put the baby in the nursery, put, get it out of there, you know. Wilda Smith: Oh, don’t leave it there all the time. Erna Thompson: Yeah, you know. Wilda Smith: Yeah. Erna Thompson: If a mother needs some space, let her have it. Wilda Smith: In other words, you believe in individualized care. Erna Thompson: I… Wilda Smith: According to what… Erna Thompson: I believe in, in the… Wilda Smith: Whatever the need is. Erna Thompson: You can’t, you can’t make a textbook out of every patient. Wilda Smith: Yeah. Erna Thompson: And therefore, just play it by ear. Wilda Smith: Right. Erna Thompson: If you have some maternal instinct or any, any instinct at all, you’re going to find out you’re right. Wilda Smith: Yeah. Very good. I’m glad we added that, Tommy. That was good. /mlc