Interview of Lena Hitchcock on her pioneering service as an occupational therapist in the U.S. Army during WWI Jane Piatt: … 14th of July 1982 to Ms. Lena Hitchcock from the Washington, DC, Unit of the Women’s Overseas Service League. [Inaudible 0:11] a beach resort at St. Petersburg Beach, Florida, to celebrate the 62nd Annual Convention of the Organization. I am Jane Piatt, National Oral History Chairman, and assisted by Geneva Wiskemann. We are both from the Lansing Unit. Lena, I'm sorry not to have talked a little with you before the taping to l-, to learn something more about you. I do know that you were one of the early presidents of the Women’s Overseas Service League, and it certainly had to be an outstanding group of women who started. Lena Hitchcock: [Inaudible 0:51]. Geneva Wiskemann: [0:56] Why – why were you eligible for WOSL membership? Lena Hitchcock: I was eligible because I served the army of my country as [inaudible] [unit 1:10] in helping to restore their bodies to usefulness. I was in occupa-, well I was the first occupation ther-, uh, occupational therapist to serve in the army, the third to take the Oath of Allegiance in this then new to modern life profession. And I was also the first in the first group to be sent overseas by the army to establish it in the, the hospitals, American hospitals in France. Geneva Wiskemann: Mm-hm. [2:09] What, uh, year was that, Lena? Lena Hitchcock: That was in 1908. And I went overseas in the same year, and I was with my group. There 15 – there were 14 physical therapists and 13 occupational therapists in the group directed by Mrs. Sue [Christiansen-Hills 2:44] of Boston, who had been the, uh, both the physical therapist and the occupational therapist to Dr. Joel Goldthwait, one of the most famous of orthopedic surgeons and head of occupational – and head of Orthopedics in France. Jane Piatt: [3:12] This was 1918, when you did this? Lena Hitchcock: Nineteen-eighteen. Well really we, uh, began in 1917. The – this was established in the army in the usual way in the public such as ours. The doctors wanted it. It's an old method of teaching and restoring physical function really through the mind, which directs the muscles of our body. The Greeks used it because their theory was that an unhealthy body could not contain a healthy mind, and to obtain that health, one must train the body to its highest efforts. Therefore, we choose the activity which will train the muscles… Interviewer: Mm-hm. Lena Hitchcock: …to do the work God intended them to do. The Greeks – the ancient Greeks used it. The Egyptian priests used it. And then it fell into disuse, uh, sometime along there in the centuries. Then Benjamin Tukes of – T-U-K-E-S – of England discovered it and – a French psychiatrist, whose name I've forgotten at the moment at the moment, discovered that the method then of stapling iron to the walls and fastening the wrists and ankles of the patients, mental patients, was doing something very dreadful and reducing them to animals. These 2 men, plus Benjamin Rush of this country – this was about the time of the Revolution, the American Revolution, uh, began to think about it, and Benjamin Rush built his own sanatarium outside of Philadelphia. He was also on the signage of the Declaration. And he established a sanatarium, and everyone had to participate in the games. The women patients who were there were taught all sorts of domestics, uh, [profession 6:32], and every afternoon at a certain hour they gathered on the lawn, the women as spectators, the men in participants in all sorts of games. Well they were also – the men were also taught all sorts of, uh, mechanics and, and, uh, eh, pursuits. Interviewer: Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Lena Hitchcock: Then the doctors – then [inaudible 7:00] again [inaudible 7:09] [issues], and a nurse, whose name escapes me now, but one of Boston’s hospitals for the insane thought she would go mad herself if she had to watch the sick women in her ward pulling at their dr-, uh, the material of their dresses to pieces, and she began teaching them all sorts of domestic arts. The Duchess discovered what these people – these women in this woman’s ward were making great progress, much greater than anybody else in the hospital, so they began to think about it… Interviewer: Mm-hm. Lena Hitchcock: …and occupational therapy began its life again. Geneva Wiskemann: That’s an interesting history… Jane Piatt: [Inaudible 8:08]. Geneva Wiskemann: …of, of, uh, therapy. [8:10] Where did you get your training? Lena Hitchcock: Well, there were no schools at that time for it, but I had always wanted to be a nurse, a trained nurse. When I was a, a child, uh, we, my father being dead, we lived with my grandparents in a Western Union town of about 5,000, and in the, of course, the, the, uh, surgeons, country doctors still were pretty important people, and our doctors took a fancy to me and was very much interested in the fact that I was so interested in medi-, medical things. So whenever he went out into the country on a trip to people, he took me with him, and he also brought medical books, and we'd stop somewhere, uh, if necessary, and he would read them to me, and he worked on, on, uh, physiological things and the body generally and, of course, anatomy, and I had a gift for painting and using my hands generally, and I was, uh, went to, to schools of painting. I was going to be a painter and so that I could do whatever I wanted if I gave all my life to it. Well the opportunity came to go into the army, at least to be attached to the army, and to do this thing. The orthopedic men in this country were shouting for it. Those abroad were shouting and pushing and pulling and everything, and finally, the army decided they'd give it a try, and there were – oh let's see. We started with 3, and then they gradually seeped in from all around. Junior League girls were the first who had had experience and knew how to use their hands and all sorts of crafts. And we learned to correlate with the movement produced by the, the craft with the movement we desired to obtain. So that if you had a man, for instance, one of the soldiers had an accident which injured these peripheral nerves, this the, uh, outside nerves and could not get his wrist up, we gave him something that would interest his mind… Interviewer: [Inaudible 11:28]. Lena Hitchcock: …and he would forget to be careful [inaudible 11:33] if you think you're going to be hurt and would get that wrist up [5 11:41] degrees, but it takes a long time to, to do it. And one of the greatest helps was [inaudible 11:49], and I used to draw the picture on and make the [designs] [inaudible 11:56], and one of the other men would cut it out with small carving tools, and then the man I wanted – we made it so that the – there was just a tiny bit more width to the print that you put down, and you put it down on the paper, you see, to print, and you had to put – bring your wrist back in order to push that down. That was just one of the many things. But you had to correlate that movement produced by your tool or activity with the movement you desired with the, the muscle you desired to [inaudible 12:45]. But to come back to the main question, um, [Inaudible 12:52] became so interested in this that he used to, uh, I had an – a lot – quite a bit of knowledge as to anatomy and working things out, and he was very [forward thinking 13:09], this doctor in his mind and in his efforts. Then I went to, to school, to art school [inaudible 13:24]. Jane Piatt: [13:24] Where [inaudible]? Where did you go to art school? Lena Hitchcock: I went to, uh, [inaudible 13:29]. I went to the Art Students League in New York [inaudible 13:33] second marriage was to an en-, uh, naval officer, and I went to school in Brooklyn, and we lived at the Brooklyn Navy Yard for a time, and I used to go over to New York on Saturdays, and I had a teacher at school, and I had several trips abroad with my grandparents, and then I – my grandmother was a painter, and I went to school in Paris, if that’s where you happen to be, and I and others were – that was [inaudible 14:13] our backgrounds and our intimacy with [inaudible 14:21] and that sort of thing and our knowledge of, of, uh, anatomy. Interviewer: Mm-hm. Lena Hitchcock: We're all put together, and we were chosen on that basis. At the same time, the schools on occupational therapy were being formed and organized. Uh, the first school, the first 2 schools were the Boston school and the Philadelphia school, and Columbia came not very far behind in New York, and those schools, uh, produced the second lot, but the first lot, were the kind I just told you about, kind of picked up here, there, there, a great many Junior League girls who had had opportunities to learn things. And we – the first group of us came through Walter Reed. Jane Piatt: [15:26] Where you a Junior League yourself? Lena Hitchcock: [Inaudible 15:28] Junior League [inaudible 15:29]. I was [inaudible 15:30] and it's why Junior League was, I think, it might be interesting, uh, was first approached was that those girls – at that time everybody, young women of the more leisured, uh, groups, uh, had had more time and money to spend upon our education and to go in [inaudible 16:04] if she wanted to learn [inaudible 16:06]. Well, oh, she learned it, you see. [Then 16:10] [throat clearing] Mrs. Herbert Wadsworth, a very rich and influential but the best thing of all a very fine and caring person had been working overseas in London with the war wounded [inaudible 16:30]. She came back to this country, herself a Junior Leaguer of the older group, original group of Junior Leaguers, and, uh, she lived – had 1 house in Washington, and she went to the Junior League, and she selected from all over the country 30 girls or young women – we were in our 20s – who could – who had painting or craft abilities, you see, and that [sort of we 17:13] had some form of, of training in, in, uh, the body generally. And we met in her house. She got permission. And what we were to do were – was to go oversea-, to, to take a course of which she’d arranged at Johns Hopkins, and she was going to pay for that, and then we would go abroad. She was going to pay for our transportation, and then after that, we were more or less on our own [as for 17:54] we didn’t any money for this – weren't to get any money for it because we were to work St. Dunston with the war blind. Well we didn’t get much of, of a, uh, work to do or to learn in Johns Hopkins because the call came loud and clear and she thought that our training m-, uh, could be continued in, in London. The State Department told her she couldn’t [take it 18:38] because the army was going into this sort of thing, [and 18:43] they were talking about it, but that if any of her girls could qualify, then they would have a – she would – that they’ll also be considered first if… Interviewer: Mm-hm. Lena Hitchcock: …perspective – we, we were called reconstruction aides, OTs and PTs. [siren] And that’s where it happened. And one day she called me, uh, we had [horn] [to produce 19:13] 3 letters prominent people saying that we were good Americans and so on and our families were. And then one afternoon, I almost went overseas with the Red Cross [inaudible 19:33] of a, of a, uh, in a hospital, a French hospi-, a French hospital of nurse’s aide. I'd take that course. Jane Piatt: [19:48] That’s the way it was originally organized? Lena Hitchcock: That was the way it was originally… Jane Piatt: [Inaudible 19:51]. Lena Hitchcock: [Inaudible 19:52] as far as [General] [Inaudible 19:55] is concerned. A young woman in New York in my mother’s generation, but they were – after all they had been favored by fate to more comfort and leisure, and a group were selected to learn about people less well off and what we could do and should do to help them. And that sort of spread like wildfire here, there, and everywhere. And I happened to be one of the first members of the Junior League in Washington. [I started 20;37] first in the service [inaudible 20:38], but [inaudible] [sister 20:39] sister who made her debut that year. That had nothing to do with [inaudible 20:46]. Geneva Wiskemann: That’s all right, dear. Jane Piatt: This is all history. Geneva Wiskemann: Yeah. Lena Hitchcock: Uh, and she told me after 3 times asking me to join, and finally I did. She said this is the last time. And people think of it as a fairly social organization, and it isn't. It's one of the most useful organizations in this country, and they do teach people to behave themselves. And you can't be a member of it unless you do the work that you [inaudible 21:20]. Jane Piatt: [Inaudible 21:20] work for your community, and I mean hard now. Lena Hitchcock: And hard [inaudible] [always was 21:24]. Jane Piatt: Yeah. But they give them more responsibility now, and now they have responsibility and all kinds of Boards and things. Lena Hitchcock: Oh, they do and in, uh, I did occupational therapy for many years at Crippled Children’s and working with the, uh, brain damaged, that is [CPs 21:48] and other types of children, and, uh, the Easter Seal Society in Washington, and before that, I established the, the OT clinic in, uh, in Department of Children’s Hospital in Washington. And I had Junior League volunteers, loads of them, [chuckle] and I remained in the Junior League until I was 80. Jane Piatt: They should have made you honorary member by that time. Lena Hitchcock: Well I w-, I was, uh, an inactive in the… Jane Piatt: Yeah, I am too. I've been sustaining a long time. [22:29] Tell me how, uh, overseas what did you do with the blind? Lena Hitchcock: I didn’t work with the blind. Jane Piatt: [22:36] What did you do? Lena Hitchcock: I was sent to the Orthopedic Hospital in, uh, Chateauroux, Base 9. It was the New York Hospital Unit, and they let me do nurse’s aide as well. I maintained a – well I did all the, um, sterilizing for the ward. There were 200 men in my ward. All of them… Interviewer: [Inaudible 23:05]. Lena Hitchcock: …amputees. Some of them – we had several basket cases… Interviewer: Hm. Lena Hitchcock: …and we had – they were the finest kind of, uh, but many of them young boys and a number of older men. They were magnificent. They never, never fussed. They never complained. And they used to play tricks on one another. They'd make [inaudible 23:42] and do all these crazy things and – but they were the very sickest of the sick and injured. And I loved it. I had [inaudible 23:56] 92 men working on my ward. There were 200 men in that ward. Jane Piatt: [24:03] Ninety-two helpers you mean? Lena Hitchcock: No. I don’t. I mean we had… Jane Piatt: [24:07] You had them working? Lena Hitchcock: …90 – I didn’t have any workers. In fact, I was a helper myself with the nurse’s aide. Jane Piatt: Yeah. Lena Hitchcock: And we all were so that it was, uh, we were met upon arrival at Base 9, by a very grand, uh, commanding officer in the morning. We got in there about 1:00. No one expected us, and we had been traveling since 3:00 in the morning from Prague to, uh, get to, eh, to [Inaudible 24:48], and then we were put into a huge [canyon 24:51] with our luggage. We all had [inaudible 24:55] and [inaudible 24:58] to be told where we were going. We didn’t know where we were going. And we landed in Chateauroux where our hospital was on the outskirts way, way past midnight while our [directories] [inaudible 25:18], and they didn’t [inaudible 25:25] and they didn’t know anything about it. [laughter] Jane Piatt: Typical. Lena Hitchcock: [laughter] And we got in there. They sent an ambulance down, and we were all piled in 2 ambulances and taken up to the hospital, and the night nurse was very sweet, but no room had been prepared for us. We slept in the night nurses’ dormitory that night and washed ourselves in a – sort of a tin trough that had been erected in one of the, uh, little side rooms. And there are 27 females all in there, and then we were finally given a, a barrack room [that was 26:17] temporary and one of our [little 26:21] PTs. Uh, I better not give her name. But at any rate, she was one of these very [inaudible 26:32] and very peculiar in other ways, and she [throat clearing] – and there was a, a [inaudible] [had been in 26:42] our ward, and there was just that box thing at the top with a chain, and she had put in about half a dozen hats, and [chuckle] they were decorated [the tank 26:59], and then one day she, uh, in this ward, she – in this building [inaudible 27:08], she decided that they [put us in 27:11] the first day. She decided to light her [inaudible 27:16], and there was [wind 27:20]. There were no, no panes of glass the windows, just [inaudible 27:24] strips, and the thing caught fire, and one of the girls leapt down who had been [inaudible 27:35] and put it out, and they had dunked it in a pail of water. But we had all sorts of, of adventures, of course, of that sort [inaudible 27:46], but nobody ever complained that I heard of. Jane Piatt: [2-7/1052] Were you in uniform of any kind? Lena Hitchcock: Oh, we wore the most awful uniforms that you can imagine. A m-, [chuckle] a man in the Surgeon General’s Office, who had been a bank clerk in Boston, designed our uniforms, and his directions were to design uniforms that would disguise any evidences of [inaudible] [protrude 28:24] of these young women [laughter] in order to eliminate temptation. Jane Piatt: Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Lena Hitchcock: Well they're made of [navy 28:41] serge, which wrinkled if you looked at 'em, lined with the most horrible [very 28:54] reddish-purple sateen capes with silk [fronts 29:02] and double rows of buttons. The buttons on my coat front were 40 down the front, double breasted, and hit me about here. Geneva Wiskemann: [29:25] Below your knee? Lena Hitchcock: That’s one thing – yeah. This was the front, you see, down to there. Geneva Wiskemann: Hm. Lena Hitchcock: There were these long [slits] [inaudible 29:35], and they had 40 more on each side of big army buttons [inaudible 29:43], and then is the collar, [inaudible 29:49] collar like this, and we had the [inaudible 29:54] with the RA, Reconstruction Aide, on it and the US, and you had on the hottest days to keep that thing crossed because if you didn’t, you – your cape was so heavy. Mine was 3 yards around the bottom and hit me at the ankles. Jane Piatt: Oh. Lena Hitchcock: And it would drag on the ground it was so heavy, so we had to keep these things fastened and crossed over, and that was over a [pseudo] [inaudible jacket, this – I don’t [inaudible 30:38], and there were [60] [inaudible 30:40], then the front of the skirt and the jacket… Jane Piatt: I see. Lena Hitchcock: …which flared out like this. Jane Piatt: [30:48] What happened at the neck of those jackets? Lena Hitchcock: They had a regular collar and they again had US [inaudible 30:56] down the front and on this – on the [parka] [inaudible 31:04], and this as we wore [inaudible 31:11] shoes that was – they were [awful 31:15]… Geneva Wiskemann: [Inaudible 31:15]. Lena Hitchcock: …high boots. We wore cotton – tan cotton stockings and we got them b-, uh, these, uh, not buttons but laced boots that came up to here… Jane Piatt: [Inaudible 31:29]. Lena Hitchcock: …and the same [orange color 31:32] glove. Oh, we were a site. Jane Piatt: [31:38] What kind of hat? Lena Hitchcock: Awful. [Inaudible 31:41] with a round head for a hole for your head [inaudible 31:48]. Jane Piatt: Uh-huh. Lena Hitchcock: So that you could put your fingers up like that and waggle the that, [laughter] and then we had this [same maroon 31:56] and [inaudible 31:58] on the side. It looked just like a [horse show] [inaudible 32:02]. We were awful. Jane Piatt: [32:06] And they were a wide, wide brim? Where they like Scotties? Lena Hitchcock: [Inaudible 32:09]. Jane Piatt: Where they like Scotties hats? Lena Hitchcock: Yes. Jane Piatt: But she looked very [distinctive 32:14] in it. Lena Hitchcock: Yeah, we [inaudible 32:16]… Jane Piatt: [Inaudible 32:16]. Lena Hitchcock: …[distinguished 32:19]. [laughter] We certainly were awful. Well those were our [inaudible 32:25]. Jane Piatt: [32:26] [Surely 23:26] you have pictures of yourself? Lena Hitchcock: [Inaudible 32:28]. I had and I don’t know where mine’s gone but, uh, [inaudible 32:35]. But anyway the, uh… Jane Piatt: [Inaudible 32:39]. Lena Hitchcock: …[inaudible 32:39], uh, for a dress, we wore blue d-, eh, uh, navy blue blouses, and they had strips of [inaudible 32:52] in the collar so there were – held our heads like this and a little turnover white coll-, or white [pieces 33:05]. Then our, uh, we wore a l-, um, um, the hospital didn’t want [inaudible 33:15], although they would [inaudible] [now 33:16], but they were just plain blue [inaudible 33:21] dresses, a pretty shade of blue, French blue, and peter pan collars. But when we went overseas, we couldn’t get the starch, so they looked a little bit floppy and cuffs [inaudible 33:38]… Jane Piatt: [33:38] White cuffs? Lena Hitchcock: …cuffs and suede, white suede shoes, and, uh, in winter we wore white wool stockings, and my legs never [inaudible 33:53]. They were very ugly [inaudible 33:56]. And I had these – they made it [inaudible 34:02] union suits too… Jane Piatt: Oh, yeah. Lena Hitchcock: …wool union suits, and you could imagine what my legs looked like with a piece of union suit down here folded across [inaudible 34:14]. The lacing looked like this. [laughter] Geneva Wiskemann: [Inaudible 34:20] 2 inches wide. [laughter] Lena Hitchcock: Just about. And one of the [stories 34:25] of - Hope [Inaudible 34:29], from Boston, and I shared the 1 little room. The PTs had 1 tiny room that 2 people could get into, a very [narrow] [inaudible 34:37] hospital bed [inaudible 34:40] when we went up into a permanent building, and the rest of them were all in the dormitory, and, uh, we – I was coming off the ward and we carried these big French baskets with our tools and things that we – no place in the ward to keep them. So we'd take 'em back and forth. And I was coming down. It was an arcade. It had been a French insane asylum, and these buildings shot up like this from the [inaudible 35:19] sort of an [ellipse 35:20] and, uh, [inaudible 35:25] closing and [inaudible 35:29] our heads [inaudible 35:32] out behind me, but in between there were 2 ambulatory boys. We called all of them – if they had white hair we called 'em boys. And she was [inaudible 35:45] she followed [me 35:49] quickly and up those stairs and into the [inaudible 35:54]. And the [class 35:57] [inaudible 35:57] was [just 35:59] simply [inaudible 36:02], and I said – I asked her [inaudible 36:08] she was laughing about it. She [inaudible 36:12]. Well finally she told me. Two boys were walking in between us, and here I was with the baskets on each arm, and of course, the cape came out like this, and here were my legs from here. Just this much of me was showing. And one suddenly grabbed the other, and he said [inaudible 36:42] look at them legs, [laughter] ain't they enough to make a bulldog bust his chain. [laughter] So you can see how attractive we were. [laughter] But it was – it was wonderful, and I loved it, and I loved [inaudible] [children 37:06] later when I retired. Well, I didn’t retire. I resigned. And now that they are real army, then they – we were attached to. Our, our, uh, letters of appointment, ta-, attached to the Army Medical Corps. Now it is the [inaudible 37:34] made an honorary colonel [inaudible 37:38] emblem that they all wear on their collar. Geneva Wiskemann: Oh, yes, with the eagle. Lena Hitchcock: With an eagle. Geneva Wiskemann: [Inaudible 37:48]. Lena Hitchcock: I've got a large one for official occasion. Geneva Wiskemann: Mm-hm. Lena Hitchcock: But I [inaudible 37:52] wear the big [one out 37:54]. Jane Piatt: [37:55] What ever happened to your uniform, Lena? Lena Hitchcock: Well, I finally gave it away. Jane Piatt: Isn't that a shame. Lena Hitchcock: Well I, uh, we… Jane Piatt: I hope it's in some museum some place. Lena Hitchcock: …[inaudible 38:04] and I went to work [inaudible 38:08], take care of my mother [inaudible 38:13]. We moved into a little apartment from a great big house, and we [wasn’t prone 38:19] to keep things. Jane Piatt: I hope it went to a museum. Lena Hitchcock: It got – it got moths in it. So I don’t, uh, that’s why I don’t march in the parade. I… Geneva Wiskemann: She really didn’t want to keep it very badly from… Lena Hitchcock: Well… Geneva Wiskemann: …what you’ve said. [chuckle] Lena Hitchcock: Well it was so funny. I didn’t really mind it at all. I never minded looking [inaudible 38:41] because well, now I am more or less, but anyway, it, uh, – oh, one thing I didn’t tell you was [chuckle] they appointed a middle-aged [inaudible 38:55] woman who was a crafts teacher, awfully nice woman, as head aide of [inaudible 39:05] because they said we young women should have a chaperone. [laughter] We were chaperoned. Jane Piatt: [39:15] And I've forgotten, how young were you at that point did you say? Lena Hitchcock: I was about 27 or 8. Jane Piatt: [39:22] This is before you went overseas? Lena Hitchcock: This was just before, but I – then I was selected to be 1 of 2, of, uh – let's see. There were 3 of us [inaudible 39:35] from Boston would send us our directories and Lydia Bush-Brown and myself were selected [inaudible 39:45] to go to, uh, [inaudible 39:48] Washington. Of course, we had then about 6 or 7 months of work at the Walter Reed. Jane Piatt: [39:56] Was the war over yet at that time? Lena Hitchcock: No, no. We were there in, uh, we didn’t come home until early July 1920. Jane Piatt: [401 (k)12] Well how did you go over? Lena Hitchcock: In a transport. And it was huge, uh, [inaudible 401 (k)21] one of the largest, oh, what's the [inaudible 40:23]. There were 29-, a convoy. We were 29 ships in a British convoy. Interviewer: Hm. Lena Hitchcock: Took over the whole 81 Division – first – 81st Division, and, uh, General Bailey became our friends. I got a letter from him [inaudible 40:47], and I met him on – the orders were that no women were to be on deck after 8:00. It was in the summer, early summer. And he was quite smitten and was filthy, and she came down. I'd been visiting, which I shouldn't have [even done], in one of the other state rooms with one of the girls, and she [laughter] she and I were in the same cabin, and she came down the steps looking very tipsy, and she being on deck with General Bailey. So he came to me, and I was appointed sergeant of the group. We did, uh, exercises and [inaudible 41:40]. I didn’t have to do any because I was [inaudible 41:42], and of course, it made everybody furious. But [Hildie 41:49] wanted to sleep in and lay over. We were 2 weeks on the way [dodging] [inaudible 41:56]. [chuckle] And I just said [hello 42:03], no women allowed on deck after 8:00. And the next day, General Bailey came over to me. He got up at the crack of dawn, and while the, the, uh, calisthenics and whatever was going on, and he said Sarge, I'll give you the biggest box of candy we can find on board if you'll tell me one thing. Where are you going? And did really know anyway, but I couldn’t have told him, and I said, uh, General, what would happen to one of your men if he divulged information that was forbidden? Oh, he said, you [know too much 43:02] and walked off the deck. [Luncheon 43:06] that day was a huge box of very stale [chuckle] chocolate and a letter from him, which I still have. Dear Sarge, For your lack of proper – divulging proper information required by your commanding officer find herewith something you clearly deserve. [laughter] C. J. Bailey, At Sea Commanding [Inaudible 43:46]. I still have that letter [inaudible 43:51]. Interviewer: [Inaudible 43:50]. Geneva Wiskemann: [43:52] Did you keep a diary, Lena? Lena Hitchcock: No, I didn’t. I didn’t have time to. Geneva Wiskemann: Mm-hm. Lena Hitchcock: Because in – I went on duty at 6 in the morning because I had all the sterilizing to do as well as my own job. Geneva Wiskemann: Mm-hm. Lena Hitchcock: And, uh, I was ready to go to bed at night. Jane Piatt: [44:18] Were you in any danger overseas? I mean was there… Lena Hitchcock: No. Jane Piatt: …fighting still going on and, uh? Lena Hitchcock: Fighting was still going on… Jane Piatt: [44:24] But you weren't anywhere near it? Lena Hitchcock: …but we were there – you see, they didn’t – they got the, the men away from the front… Jane Piatt: Yeah. Lena Hitchcock: …as soon as they could. They had the dressing stations in the trenches, in the dig, eh, dugouts. Jane Piatt: Mm-hm. Lena Hitchcock: And my brother-in-law, who was a surgeon, was gassed because he worked – he was operating on a man who had been gassed. He was gassed, and it started this heart condition, which many years later, the army concluded was [inaudible 45:05] that had really caused his heart condition. Jane Piatt: Mm-hm. Lena Hitchcock: But, um, no we were not in any danger. We were – I don’t say [inaudible 45:18] comfortable. We were very uncomfortable at times. I worked for – when we left there in, uh, [inaudible 45:30] after [inaudible 45:33], the, uh, after the armistice [inaudible 45:38] for 6 months, and then from there we went to [inaudible 45:45], which was the largest [inaudible 45:47]. They sent in a new unit, and, uh, some of us – 2 of us, [Hilsie 45:56] and [inaudible 45:47] who became one of the most famous [inaudible 46:02] [throat clearing] in Paris. Jane Piatt: [46:07] Became what? Lena Hitchcock: [Inaudible 46:08]. In other words, the mistress to… Jane Piatt: Oh. Lena Hitchcock: …anybody that wanted her. Jane Piatt: Oh. Lena Hitchcock: And, uh, she stayed over there. She married an English nobleman, and then she went off with his best friend and married him, another English nobleman, and then she died. I don’t know, but I assume she’d be gone. She was really something. She said to me, we were changing, and we had [chateau] [inaudible 46:40]. The 4 of us [inaudible 45:42] in, uh, in [inaudible 46:50], the original people. It could've been after that. Others came in and Dr. D-, uh, uh, the, uh – [inaudible 47:04]. I can't think of it, But he was [inaudible 47:07] had to, uh, [inaudible 47:13] here says to Dr. Goldthwait, I'm sorry, but your [inaudible 47:22]. We just haven't got enough room. And I started to say that – the morning after we got to there looking like a lot of drowned rats, the – this very swank, uh, officer, major, drew us all up in line. I've got a picture of it. We really are sights. And we said, uh, [inaudible 47:48]. He had told Colonel Ireland – Colonel Goldthwait that he wasn’t running a boardinghouse, and we were [inaudible 48:01]. Let's see, there were 14 PTs and 13 OTs, and they would send us back on the next ship available, and [Hilsie 48:19] stepped out, her blue eyes burning, and she was madder than a [habit 48:25]. She said I like to remind the Major that the same government which placed him here has sent us, and we will [proudly 48:37] remain until that government decides to recall us. [laughter] So he, [laughter] uh… What was I going to say? Geneva Wiskemann: You were telling us about the, the young woman who went on to such a [glorious 48:55] life. Jane Piatt: [Inaudible 48:55]. She said you… Geneva Wiskemann: That she said… Lena Hitchcock: Oh… Geneva Wiskemann: …something [inaudible 49:00]. Jane Piatt: …[inaudible 49:00]. Lena Hitchcock: …we were changing – well Hope’s brother, in the meantime is, of course, [inaudible 49:05] had, uh, was in tour, and she hadn't seen him, so I said well, I'll tell you [inaudible 49:14] Bordeaux, and we had to go to [inaudible 49:17] to change trains, and I said I'll take care of [Hilsie 49:24] and Liz, and you, uh, go and have a [inaudible 49:30]. We had several hours in [Inaudible 49:35]. This [inaudible] [Hilsie 49:38] and Liz wanted all the [inaudible 49:43] she could get in her [cell 49:46]. I don’t think she’d gone over the edge then. But, uh, but when we were – had gone [inaudible 49:54] one of the hotels, and we were in the dressing room tidying up because we knew that the last [inaudible 50:08] we’d see as we got to Bordeaux. And I had finished. Liz [inaudible 50:16] and Hope came in, and she, she [inaudible 50:20] don’t you want to go out and see Ralph, whom I'd known, and I said that, eh, I don’t – in a little while because I knew Liz would follow me [like this 50:32], [chuckle] and I knew how Hope felt about it. So she said to me, Hope’s brother is out there, and I said mm-hm. She, uh, you know him don’t you? I said sure, I know him. Well, aren't you going out? No. In a little while when I get ready to. And she stamped her foot. She said oh, you make me so damn mad. You look as though you ought to have a lot of pep, and you haven't got a damn bit. [laughter] She was really something. Geneva Wiskemann: [51:20] But she stayed over there? She didn’t come back to America? Lena Hitchcock: She stayed over there. No, she didn’t come back. Jane Piatt: [51:24] Married the English…? Lena Hitchcock: Well she married him. Yes. But she’d been his mistress for a long time [inaudible 51:30]. Jane Piatt: [51:30] A-, a-, and then she left him and married another one? Lena Hitchcock: Married his best friend. Well I don’t know what became of her after that. Jane Piatt: [51:30] And she came from a good family too, didn’t she? Lena Hitchcock: Well [inaudible 51:40]. Jane Piatt: [Uh-huh 41:42]. Lena Hitchcock: …[inaudible 51:43] good enough. Jane Piatt: Yeah. Lena Hitchcock: But, uh… Geneva Wiskemann: That doesn’t make any difference [inaudible 51:50]. Jane Piatt: No, that’s what I meant. Lena Hitchcock: She had orange-colored hair naturally, and you really – it was the most curious thing. Uh, even we felt that sort of, uh, this electricity, which was in her, we felt this sort of pull to her, and she had a lot of good qualities. Geneva Wiskemann: [52:17] Did she do her job well? Lena Hitchcock: She did her job beautifully. She was – she had [to shop] [inaudible 52:23]. One of the things that happened, uh, some of the men from Ithaca, which was the, uh, the Air Force Headquarters, and Liz somehow met one of the men who, uh, named Ferguson, who had been in the Lafayette Escadrille. Interviewer: Hm. Lena Hitchcock: And had stayed over and gone [in the army 52:56], and he was madly in love with her. Anyway, uh, [inaudible 53:09] from Ithaca [inaudible 53:12]. [throat clearing] Two of their officers, two pilots had gone over. One of the men would be killed [doing] [inaudible] [flying 53:24], not killed but badly – he did die, but [inaudible 53:29]. And Hope was passing through sort of a [inaudible 53:37] connecting, uh, corridors that [inaudible 53:42] so you could get all around the place without getting wet in bad weather, and one grabbed the other. Liz had on a costume she had made for some reason. I've forgotten what it was, but she made [inaudible 54:03]… [knocking] Come in! Oh, it's [inaudible 54:05]. Jane Piatt: Yeah, I'll get it. Lena Hitchcock: And he just grabbed the other. He said [inaudible 54:11], look at that. [laughter] Bring me a monkey wrench. [laughter] She was in a tin thing that she… Geneva Wiskemann: [54:23] Had made? Lena Hitchcock: Had made, a tin, glass front and… Jane Piatt: [Inaudible 54:29]. Geneva Wiskemann: [54:29] Oh, she was imaginative wasn’t she? Lena Hitchcock: She was imaginative. She had lots of good qualities. Jane Piatt: She still hasn’t told us about Mrs. [Chupe 54:38]. Geneva Wiskemann: No, uh… Lena Hitchcock: Well you got me off on that. Jane Piatt: I know, dear. I know. Geneva Wiskemann: Oh, we, we didn’t mean to divert you, but, eh… Jane Piatt: [54:45] [You promised 54:45], uh, [Nancy] [Inaudible 54:47] we would get some information from you about [inaudible 54:50]. Lena Hitchcock: [Inaudible 54:50]… Jane Piatt: Yeah. Lena Hitchcock: …[was a darling 54:51]. She and her husband had been in France for several years from the time we g-, the war was begun, and he was with the, uh, American Ambulance, and she d-, the army wouldn't take him, so he went to [inaudible 55:12], and [Ada 55:14], who was a gentle soul and very shy, was the, um, [inaudible 55:26] American Women’s Fund for French Wounded. We had about 30 organizations [inaudible 55:37], American organizations [inaudible 55:40], and we had over 25,000 women in France in the First World War. I got those figures out of the, when I was president of the league, from the War Department. Jane Piatt: Twenty-five-thousand women. Lena Hitchcock: Over 25,000. Jane Piatt: [56:05] And various kinds of [inaudible 56:06]? Lena Hitchcock: [Very] [inaudible 56:06]. Well you see, we had over 40 organ-, women’s organizations and American organizations in France. She wore, uh, well you know the old – well I guess you don’t. But the deaconesses in the episcopal church had a uniform, which was a blue – dark blue veil that was fastened around the neck like this and long blue capes, [inaudible 56:46] capes, and she was wear-, she wore that uniform all through France. She wasn’t a deaconess, but she – that was the one that the, uh, American Fund for the French Wounded. They were from – she was from, uh, Philadelphia. At least, [Ollie 57:08], her husband was, and he wrote our purpose. He drew up our purpose. So she, uh, [Ada Chew 47:18] and a group of women – well there were a few of us from Philadelphia, and, uh, oh, about 40 or 50 women from New York, who had served in the Red Cross, uh, several of those women and [inaudible] [friend] [inaudible 57:43] came back and [inaudible] [very flat 57:51], and they got together and decided and they appealed to the army for help to, uh, find out what women were overseas, how many of them and so on [inaudible 58:15], Philadelphia and several others from Philadelphia and these women in New York, and they appealed to the War Department, and the War Department turned over some of the chaplains, I guess to find some busy work for them, to help. And I was, uh, gone up – I wanted to work [out of the] [inaudible 58:43] when I got home, and I went up to Boston to learn to be an interior decorator. Afterwards I decided I didn’t want to be. And the chaplain, uh, a friend of my father was in command of the harbor, uh, [inaudible 50:10], and the chaplain up there was appointed to [inaudible 59:18]. And I'd met him at dinner [inaudible 59:21], and he called me up and told me that a meeting was being held that night in some rooms – I've forgotten which [inaudible 59:36] – to talk about getting together for forming an organization, in the meantime here, there, all over the country. Women who had served in some way or other overseas got together forming their groups, and the chaplains sort of went here and there plucking them out and that, that had spread. But anyway he called me and Hope and I, Hope Gray, and I went to the first meeting [up at 1:00:16] Boston. It was called – they called it the New England Unit. Jane Piatt: Mm-hm. Lena Hitchcock: And there were over 200 women there that night, and [inaudible 1:00:28], and I joined it – we joined it right there on the spot. Geneva Wiskemann: [1:00:35] What were your dues? Did you have to pay dues? Lena Hitchcock: Oh, sure, we paid dues. Interviewer: Yeah. Lena Hitchcock: I don’t remember what they were. Something very minor. Interviewer: Yeah. Lena Hitchcock: And, uh, we gradually got [inaudible 1:00:49] and work in the hospitals. I don’t think [of too much account 1:00:53]. [Inaudible 1:00:55], I became a friend of hers. She [was blind 1:01:01], and she was a lovely person. She was elected by the first meeting was in Philadelphia. The New York [inaudible 1:01:19] people and a few here, there and [Ada Chew 1:01:23] and [Ada Chew] [inaudible] [lawyer 1”-1”24] on the, the, uh, purpose, and he wrote that purpose. Interviewer: Hm. Lena Hitchcock: I think it's a beautiful one. Jane Piatt: I do too. Lena Hitchcock: And [Ada 1:01:37], oh, she’s been dead quite a long time. I've just forgotten how long ago. But she was a very retiring person. Then the first – I came home [inaudible 1:01:53] and the, uh, the year the – of the Unknown Soldiers burial here. Interviewer: Mm-hm. Lena Hitchcock: And all the things that were going on, the Disarmament Conference and all that. And we marched. I marched with the National Group because Washington and it was only Red Cross, but they very quickly turned and opened up, but [inaudible 1:02:27]. Jane Piatt: [1:02:27] [Inaudible 1:02:27] Salvation Army too, didn’t they? Interviewer: Wasn’t there a Salvation Army, uh, uh, [inaudible 1:02:32]. Lena Hitchcock: Do you know how many Salvation Army people there, uh, all these donut businesses. Everybody who cooked doughnuts, the Red Cross had 'em, the Y. [Inaudible 1:02:44] had 'em. Everybody was cooking doughnuts [fine 1:02:50] doughnuts, but every doughnut as far as the boys were concerned were give to them by the, uh, the army, the Salvation Army. There were 28 Salvation Army girls in France, and they were not in the middle of no-man’s land. The only people who got to no man’s land were the entertainers, and they put on shows in no man’s land. Jane Piatt: Now I had a friend by the name of Mary Sweeney. She was a little bitty thing. She was a teacher at Merle Palmer in Detroit where I took my nursing school training. She was in World War I. World War I. She came from Virginia or one of the Southern states, and she – her job overseas, she served soup to the men in the trenches and she… Lena Hitchcock: Well but that wasn’t in the middle of no man’s land. Jane Piatt: No, no. No, no. I [hear] [inaudible 1:03:59]. Lena Hitchcock: [Inaudible 1:04:00]. Jane Piatt: Yeah. Lena Hitchcock: [Inaudible 1:04:01] in between… Jane Piatt: In between. That’s right. Lena Hitchcock: …the American and German trenches. Jane Piatt: But I've never r-, I've never found anybody who, eh, who knew what service that w-, would have been. Eh, would, would it have been with Red Cross or what? Lena Hitchcock: It could have been with the Red Cross. It could have been with the entertainers group, which was a wonderful group. Wonderful group. And it, uh, well it could have been the YM, YW. It could have been… Jane Piatt: She was chosen to, to deliver into the trenches because she was so tiny that she could walk along the trenches and… Lena Hitchcock: Probably… Jane Piatt: …and nothing showed. Lena Hitchcock: Probably the Red Cross. Jane Piatt: Probably. I – at the time, you know, it never occurred to me to get that information. I was [at 1:04:46] Merle Palmer when the war was war was declared, and I wanted to go right then, and the next day, the Monday after it was declared, I went – she was my advisor, and I went in and I said, Miss Sweeney, I would like… Lena Hitchcock: Is that the Second War [inaudible 1:05:02]? Jane Piatt: Second World War. Mm-hm? I would like to, you know, get, get some information about volunteering for service, and, uh, what, what would you think. She said go. I did, you know, then she told me, you know, and I – so I went down to the post office, and I couldn’t get any information, and then about a week later my friend called me and said that she had found some information and, and that they had gotten her name on the list to get things mailed to her. Well that was in in no-, in, eh, what? Eh, December and, uh, we didn’t get any information from anybody until about March, and it took me from March until May to get the darn form filled out. You had to have recommendations from everywhere and so on, you know. And – but we finally got 'em submitted, but, uh, when I went to tell Miss Sweeney about it, she said go. I did. You know? She thought that was wonderful, that somebody would want to. But I've never run into anybody that ever knew her. Lena Hitchcock: Well I didn’t know her. Interviewer: [No 1:06:12]. Lena Hitchcock: I'm sorry to say. [Inaudible] [really 1:06:14] it never. Because of that very shyness [inaudible 1:06:20] here with, with this unit, uh, by any unit. Interviewer: Hm. Lena Hitchcock: By the league I mean. Interviewer: Yeah. Lena Hitchcock: And she was living still when we organized because she had, eh, the group march. We marched [inaudible 1:06:36] Avenue and Old Darlington to the burial. Jane Piatt: [1:06:42] But she wasn’t the first president, was she? Lena Hitchcock: She was the first president. Jane Piatt: [1:06:45] Oh, was she? Lena Hitchcock: The very first president. Interviewer: [Inaudible 1:06:46]. Jane Piatt: [Inaudible 1:06:47]. Geneva Wiskemann: [Inaudible 1:06:48]. Lena Hitchcock: And then Louise Wells was the next one. Louise Clarkson she became after she [inaudible 1:06:54]. And she was a wonderful person. And we tried to get a charter, a national charter and [inaudible 1:07:03] head of that committee, and they, uh, Congress [wouldn't 1:07:10] give it to us because [he 1:07:12] considered the men had betrayed the congress because they had followed [inaudible 1:07:17]. And so we got it – our charter in Indiana, the State of Indiana. It was the only one that would give us a charter. Interviewer: Hm. Lena Hitchcock: But that was, uh, when was that? Geneva Wiskemann: [Inaudible 1:07:36]. Lena Hitchcock: I'm so old now, I forget things. Interviewer: [1:07:38] Your first president, Mrs., um, [Oswell Chew 1:07:41] was p-, p-, president in 1921… Lena Hitchcock: Yeah. Interviewer: …to ’22. Lena Hitchcock: Yeah. Interviewer: Then Mrs., Miss Wells, uh… Lena Hitchcock: Louise Wells. Interviewer: …was ‘22 to ’24. Uh-huh. Lena Hitchcock: And then, uh… Interviewer: After that was Mary [Bogart-Stew-, Stewart 1:07:56]. Lena Hitchcock: She’s – yeah. She’s dead. She married the Englishman. Interviewer: [Inaudible 1:08:02]. Lena Hitchcock: She was Lady, uh, thing-u-ma-bob. Geneva Wiskemann: Lady [Stuart 1:08:06], it says. Yeah. Lena Hitchcock: [Inaudible 1:08:08]. Geneva Wiskemann: Mm-hm. Lena Hitchcock: He was [an Oxford] [inaudible 1:08:09]. Jane Piatt: Hm. Lena Hitchcock: Well I knew all of those. They always stayed at our house in Washington [when 1:08:21] we were busy with [inaudible 1:08:22] then and then, then the Red Cross unit that was – is now the Washington Unit started out as being Red Cross, but they changed very quickly. But the, uh, the New York one, which is gone – been gone for some time, disbanded – were very snooty about Red Cross, and they wouldn't take in anybody but Red Cross people. [Inaudible 1:08:57]. Geneva Wiskemann: Well that’s good information. That’s – you're a good storyteller, Lena. Lena Hitchcock: Thank you very much. Geneva Wiskemann: That’s wonderful. Jane Piatt: [Inaudible 1:09:07]. Geneva Wiskemann: What a, what a story you have. Lena Hitchcock: Well I've lived a long time. Geneva Wiskemann: And… Lena Hitchcock: Ninety-three years. Jane Piatt: What a wonderful life, 93 years. Lena Hitchcock: It's been an interesting life. I don’t know how good it was. Geneva Wiskemann: Well, eh, don’t say was. It's going on yet. [chuckle] Still going on. Lena Hitchcock: Well I'm not much use to anybody now. Geneva Wiskemann: Well you're certainly of use – a very vital use now, Lena, with, eh, this, this is history. This is going down in record. Geneva Wiskemann: No one else has this particular remembrance but you. And you know we're going to use this for educational and historical purposes. You w-… Lena Hitchcock: Oh, really? Geneva Wiskemann: …you understand that? Yes. I will send you to your, to your a-, address a, a form that will give me, uh, an agreement that, that you will be properly cited, properly credited with your words if it were any abstracts were to appear in print or anything that you would be properly credited and so forth… Lena Hitchcock: [Really 1:10:18]? Geneva Wiskemann: …and it will say that, that you offer it for education and historical purposes. But I want you to understand it so that if you do not see the form to read it. Jane Piatt: Or someone to read it to you… Geneva Wiskemann: You… Jane Piatt: …before you sign it. Geneva Wiskemann: Since… Lena Hitchcock: I can't read it [inaudible 1:10:36]. Jane Piatt: You live - someone lives with you [inaudible 1:10:38]. Geneva Wiskemann: Since your vision is limited… Lena Hitchcock: No. I live alone. Geneva Wiskemann: …I want you to be well aware of that. Lena Hitchcock: [Yeah 1:10:43], I, I have a young woman who comes in once to twice a week and I pay her and reads my mail to me and, and, uh, does my checking and… Jane Piatt: Mm-hm. Lena Hitchcock: …bookkeeping. Jane Piatt: Well she will read it to you for you to sign… Lena Hitchcock: Oh, [yeah 1:11:02]. Jane Piatt: …and return to Geneva. Lena Hitchcock: Yeah. Geneva Wiskemann: Eh, but you would know what it was so that you don’t sign anything that you don’t know what it is, you know. Lena Hitchcock: No, I wouldn't. Geneva Wiskemann: No. But you… Lena Hitchcock: [Inaudible 1:11:12]. Geneva Wiskemann: But – [chuckle] yes. But, um, I wanted you to, um, be aware of that so that we would have that on the tape too. Lena Hitchcock: Oh, I do love the league, and those early days were quite [filling 1:11:27] with the – when they were coming and going from everywhere and staying and we were run-, running a regular [inaudible 1:11:36] house, boardinghouse, and my mother was in politics. She was a great politician and knew all the people up on the Hill. And somebody would call from [inaudible 1:11:52] or somewhere if I'd like to see our senator, may I come and stay for a couple of nights. Sure. Will your mother get me an interview. Of course. Jane Piatt: [1:12:07] What party was she in? Lena Hitchcock: Republican. Jane Piatt: Wow, that’s good. [laughter] Geneva Wiskemann: [1:12:12] What was her name, Lena? Lena Hitchcock: We were born – I was born and bred in a briar patch. [laughter] Virginia White-Speel. She married a second time. My father died when I was just a baby, a very little child. Jane Piatt: [1:12:27] S-P-I-E-L? Lena Hitchcock: S-P-E-E-L. He was a naval officer. Geneva Wiskemann: [1:12:32] So Hitchcock is your married name? Jane Piatt: [Inaudible 1:12:35]. Lena Hitchcock: No. [Inaudible 1:12:35]. I'm an old maid. Geneva Wiskemann: [1:12:37] Oh, are you? I see. Excuse me. Lena Hitchcock: I, uh, Hitchcock is my father’s name. Geneva Wiskemann: Oh, is your father’s name. Alright. Mm-hm. Lena Hitchcock: We were from – Mother was from Pennsylvania, Western Pennsylvania, and we went back there to live, but I was born in Norfolk. And after my father’s death, I was brought up in Pennsylvania. Geneva Wiskemann: Mm-hm. Mm-hm. You don’t hear very many ladies say I am an old maid or I was an old maid [inaudible 1:13:10]. Lena Hitchcock: Oh, but I am an old maid. Interviewer: [Inaudible 1:13:11] another one right here. [laughter] Interviewer: [Here too 1:13:14]. Interviewer: [Inaudible 1:13:16]. Interviewer: I don’t [inaudible 1:13:20]. Lena Hitchcock: Well I don’t mind it a bit. Geneva Wiskemann: No. Interviewer: [Inaudible 1:13:22]. Geneva Wiskemann: No. You had a – have had a rich career and… Lena Hitchcock: Yeah, life has been interesting [inaudible 1:13:28] wondered what’s gonna happen. Geneva Wiskemann: Mm-hm. Jane Piatt: And if you get a chance [inaudible 1:13:36]. Lena Hitchcock: Yes. [laughter] Jane Piatt: Yes. And we asked about that. And we asked about that. Lena Hitchcock: These girls asked me about all sorts of things. That have really nothing to do with the case. [laughter] Jane Piatt: [Inaudible 1:13:49]. It's a long history [inaudible 1:13:52]. Geneva Wiskemann: [1:13:52] Are you happy now, uh, Lena, with, with the, uh, WOSL or the, the avenue that it's going? Lena Hitchcock: I'm happy with everything but the fact that it's so little. I wished we had more members. Geneva Wiskemann: Mm-hm. Lena Hitchcock: For I love the, the league. I always shall better than anything I've ever belonged to, and I've been an ardent Red Crosser, and an ardent Junior Leaguer. I did, when I, when I retired from work, I, uh, also ran all the volunteers… Geneva Wiskemann: Mm-hm. Lena Hitchcock: …at Crippled Children. Jane Piatt: [1:14:37] When did you retire? Lena Hitchcock: I retired in – let's see. I have to do some arithmetic, and now that was never my long [inaudible 1:14:45] suit. I retired when I was 80. I was born in 1889. Jane Piatt: [1:14:51] You, you're 93 now? Lena Hitchcock: I'm 93 now. Jane Piatt: So 13 years ago. Lena Hitchcock: [Inaudible 1:14:56] I did [inaudible 1:14:58] for a while until the doc-, my doctor told me he wanted me to quit. Well I stayed in the Junior League all that time because I thought I could do better [inaudible 1:15:14] with it inside than out, and, uh, I knew most of the girls from Washington. They're a fine lot. And I could get volunteers more easily if I had [inaudible 1:15:29]. Jane Piatt: Our league is so large now. Lena Hitchcock: So is the Washington. Jane Piatt: Just huge. I, I, uh, I really, you know, when I go to a – even when I go to a sustaining meeting, uh, I don’t know half the people. Eh, they're more – a great many more that have gone sustaining in the years since I left than there were in the, in the – of the old sustainers that I'd become acquainted with when I was active. Lena Hitchcock: Well that’s more or less the case… Jane Piatt: Yeah. Lena Hitchcock: …in Washington. I was there [inaudible] [look on the letter 1:16:02] for one of the members [inaudible 1:16:08]. They were younger than I. But I was growing up and then when she was a young girl, a very young girl, and, uh, she sent a letter that they'd found albums and [inaudible 1:16:25] boxes of old photographs of… Jane Piatt: [1:16:30] The early days? Lena Hitchcock: …our early days and early members and so forth and [inaudible 1:16:36] the daughter of one of the members, [our 1:16:41] members was in, uh, in, uh, [inaudible 1:16:48]. I want to say Persia. I keep saying Persia, you know. Geneva Wiskemann: [1:16:52] Egypt? Jane Piatt: [Inaudible 1:16:523]. Lena Hitchcock: The one with the prisoners. Jane Piatt: Oh. Lena Hitchcock: One of the, uh… Geneva Wiskemann: Oh. Jane Piatt: Oh. Geneva Wiskemann: Oh, one of the… Jane Piatt: [1:16:59] Iran? Lena Hitchcock: Iran. Yes. Jane Piatt: Oh. Interviewer: Iran. Lena Hitchcock: I got to the point now my brain that I can't say my own name. In fact, [inaudible 1:17:10]. Jane Piatt: Listen, I want to tell you something. I'm a lot younger than you are, and I have the same problem, so I have a horrible future to look forward. Yeah. Lena Hitchcock: [Inaudible 1:17:16]. Interviewer: [Inaudible 1:17:17]. Jane Piatt: I, I was – been listening to you calling off names and places, and I think to myself I can't do that now. Lena Hitchcock: But one day coming on the bus from downtown, last year it was, I got – there was only 1 seat, and I sat down beside this hard faced woman, and I had on a tweed coat that I bought in Canada 30 years ago. Jane Piatt: [Inaudible 1:17:44]. Lena Hitchcock: And I just adored it because it was the loveliest shade of sort of strawberry, and, uh, this woman looked at it, awfully shabby, and she said, uh, nice coat you're wearing, nice piece of tweed. I ran a shop and, and I know. And then she went on and [thought 1:18:08] some more, and she what's your name, and I was so taken by surprise, I said, you know I can't – I've forgotten. [laughter] I don’t know. She got up so fast, and we were in the middle of a block and zipped down to the door [laughter] [inaudible 1:18:33]… [laughter] Jane Piatt: [Inaudible 1:18:33]. Lena Hitchcock: …get off right then. I think she thought I was gonna come after her. Well I thought so too. [laughter] Interviewer: [Inaudible 1:18:42]. [laughter] Jane Piatt: [Inaudible 1:18:44]. [laughter] I think you ought to let Lena hear a little bit [inaudible 1:18:49]. Geneva Wiskemann: [1:18:50] Oh, that’s a wonderful story. [laughter] Lena Hitchcock: It's a true one. Geneva Wiskemann: I – w-, well of course it is. I don’t question that. Lena Hitchcock: And I don’t know, uh, I talk to more people in my apartment house, and they say well, hello, Miss Hitchcock, you're not going out in this rain are you. They th-, seem to th-, I – they think I'm nuts completely, I'm sure, but I don’t know their names from Adam. I couldn’t have – if I knew 'em once, I can't remember 'em. Geneva Wiskemann: Well. Lena Hitchcock: And so I look at them when I say in the sweetest voice I can manage, oh, I'm so glad to see you. Geneva Wiskemann: [chuckle] Yes. Lena Hitchcock: [Inaudible 1:19:34]. Geneva Wiskemann: Well you are. It doesn’t matter what their name is. Lena Hitchcock: No. Some of 'em I don’t care when I see 'em or not. Geneva Wiskemann: Oh. [laughter] But you make them happy. Jane Piatt: It makes them happy. That’s right. Geneva Wiskemann: [Inaudible 1:19:48]. Lena Hitchcock: Well I just hope they forget, don’t notice that I don’t say Mrs. Whoseit. [laughter] Jane Piatt: That’s alright. I, I to this day will stand and talk to somebody for a long, long time and after I go away, I keep thinking now where have I known her before. Lena Hitchcock: Oh, I do that. Jane Piatt: A-, a-, and if I have somebody with me, I'll say who was that, and they say well… Lena Hitchcock: [Inaudible 1:20:09]. Jane Piatt: …you talked to them as though you knew, and I say you notice it was all in general terms. I – ‘cause half the time it was the grandmother of some child that I had in nursery school 40 years ago, you know, and the child is grown up and had children, and this grandmother is telling me, you know, you, you should see Penny now. [laughter] Penny who? Lena Hitchcock: Yeah. Jane Piatt: I [inaudible 1:20:31] nursery school for 28 years [inaudible 1:20:34]. Geneva Wiskemann: Well [inaudible 1:20:34]. Lena Hitchcock: My experience too, somebody… Jane Piatt: [Inaudible 1:20:38]. Lena Hitchcock: …just the other day, I was crossing the street to the apartment [inaudible 1:20:43], and I saw this very attractive-looking young woman stop and wave to be, so I waved back, and I got to the other side, and she said oh, Miss Hitchcock so-so-so, so that I kept my ears cocked to hear what is she going to give me some kind of [inaudible 1:21:04], so I don't know at all yet who it was, [Mabel or Penny 1:21:09]. I don’t know whether she’ll [inaudible 1:21:12]. She was going to pick her up dancing school, and I said oh that’s fine, do tell me about her, how is she getting on. I wondered if she’d been a patient of mine. [laughter] If she was something that I had known [inaudible 1:21:34]. I, I to this day, I don’t know where. I just – people I've never saw before, at least I think I never did, say good morning when I'm on the way looking very [inaudible 1:21:48] to have my hair done. [laughter] And I say oh, how nice to see you. [laughter] And go on fast, [laughter] just as fast as I can travel, see because I'm afraid I'll have to use the name [inaudible 1:22:04]. I know I'm… Jane Piatt: [Well 1:22:08]. Lena Hitchcock: …[inaudible 1:22:08]. [laughter] Jane Piatt: [Inaudible 1:22:11] I think [inaudible 1:22:12]. Geneva Wiskemann: You're great. You're absolutely great. Lena, [inaudible 1:22:17]. Interviewer: [Inaudible 1:22:17]. Interviewer: [Inaudible 1:22:18]. Interviewer: [Inaudible 1:22:20] maybe it's somebody he knew. His name is Sweeney. Geneva Wiskemann: [Inaudible 1:22:27] Sweeney [inaudible 1:22:28]. Lena Hitchcock: Yeah. Geneva Wiskemann: [1:22:30] Colonel Sweeney? Lena Hitchcock: Colonel Sweeney, [inaudible 1:22:31]. Jane Piatt: Well I never thought about it. Lena Hitchcock: Same name. Jane Piatt: She was a delightful person with this very Southern, uh, accent. In fact, she wrote the wrote book that is the big, the name of it Rand, Sweeney, and Vincent, a, a nutrition book, uh, that we u-, all used, and it's on record, and it still has been revised and revised. Geneva Wiskemann: [Inaudible 1:22:51]. Jane Piatt: [Inaudible 1:22:52] Rand, Sweeney. I don’t know that Vin-, no Vincent is not dead I don’t think. She was teaching at Cornell the last I knew. But Rand is gone, and Sween-, uh, Rand was related to Dr. Bishop. Uh, she was, um, his wife’s sister. Geneva Wiskemann: Hm. Jane Piatt: And, um, and, uh, Vincent who was a psychologist, a very attractive woman, and she left Merrill-Palmer and went to teach at Cornell I think. But I, uh, I was just broken hearted when I heard that, that Miss Sweeney was gone. She did come back to [a few, few 1:23:24] reunion. Of course, Nell Palmer is gone now so. Geneva Wiskemann: That’s over by Wayne State University now. Interviewer: Yeah. Interviewer: Mm-hm. Geneva Wiskemann: Time’s changed. The world. Lena Hitchcock: Oh, Lord, [inaudible 1:23:35]. Jane Piatt: Well it's probably good. Lena Hitchcock: [Inaudible 1:23:38]. Jane Piatt: You couldn’t have 'em all go on in the same forever and ever. Lena Hitchcock: Oh, of course. I remember that there were no streetcars. They were all trolly [inaudible 1:23:48]. Jane Piatt: [Inaudible 1:23:48] horse. Geneva Wiskemann: Mm-hm. Interviewer: No, I never [inaudible 1:23:51]. Geneva Wiskemann: Think what you have seen just in transportation and communication. Lena Hitchcock: And manners. Geneva Wiskemann: Oh, and manners. We were talking… Jane Piatt: That’s a horrible change. Lena Hitchcock: And morals. Geneva Wiskemann: Mm-hm. Jane Piatt: And that’s a horrible change too. Lena Hitchcock: [Inaudible 1:24:02]. Geneva Wiskemann: [1:24:03] Do you feel that it's a bad change? Lena Hitchcock: Yes, I do. Geneva Wiskemann: Mm-hm. Lena Hitchcock: I think there's some very good things about it and in a subject in which we're all interested but isn't generally talked about [in polite 1:24:18] society, which is finding a [inaudible 1:24:22] when you can get to the bathroom without letting your [inaudible 1:24:24]. [laughter] He would have an a-, oh, I remember days where I wasn’t supposed to go on any all day [inaudible 1:24:35], but I did, canoe trips. [Inaudible 1:24:41] because oh, getting away from them, [laughter] finding a spot where they wouldn't come and [inaudible 1:24:55] bushes and rocks and things, [laughter] and today nobody cares. Jane Piatt: [Inaudible 1:25:02]. Interviewer: [No], [inaudible 1:25:02]. Lena Hitchcock: A man and woman come in to see me and if he wants to go to the bathroom, he goes. You can't get lost in a 2-room apartment. [laughter] Jane Piatt: I think that is a good [inaudible 1:25:20]. [laughter] Lena Hitchcock: [Inaudible 1:25:21] had a lovely apartment with lovely antiques in it. [Inaudible 1:25:24] family and everything [inaudible 1:25:27]. But they just march in and [inaudible 1:25:33], and I have a lot of husbands and wives coming [inaudible 1:25:41] they were volunteered. Volunteered at Crippled Children’s, and they know the place so well [inaudible 1:25:52] learn. [There’s a 1:25:56] husband in the middle and some people will just get up and walk in and out [inaudible 1:26:00] by the way, you, the towels [inaudible 1:26:05] such and such a [inaudible 1:26:06]. [laughter] And nobody would use my towels. Interviewer: I have that same problem [inaudible 1:26:14]. Lena Hitchcock: Do you? Interviewer: I put out 2 [inaudible 1:26:16] towels… Lena Hitchcock: It makes me so mad. Interviewer: …and I ask them to use them, and nobody touches them. Geneva Wiskemann: [1:26:00] They're too pretty? Lena Hitchcock: And some of my women friends… Interviewer: [Inaudible 1:26:22]. Lena Hitchcock: …that I can discuss the subject with [inaudible 1:26:25] shy about it [inaudible 1:26:27]. [coughing] I say why don’t you use [inaudible 1:26:34] towels? Well I don’t want to make work for you. You do enough. That’s what I've got to do 'em up or the thread’s gonna rot. [laughter] So often, I'd much rather [inaudible 1:26:49]… Interviewer: [Inaudible 1:26:49]. Lena Hitchcock: …wash a towel that’s been used. [laughter] Jane Piatt: Than to wash one that hasn’t. Lena Hitchcock: Than to wash one hadn't been used. Interviewer: [That’s what I think 1:26:56]. [laughter] Jane Piatt: [Inaudible 1:26:58]. Lena Hitchcock: Oh, it's infuriating. [laughter] [Inaudible 1:27:04] these people. If I have company, I use linen napkins. I was brought up to do it, and I still do it. I use paper for myself. But, oh why didn’t you give us paper napkins? Interviewer: Yeah. Interviewer: I… Jane Piatt: [1:27:23] That [inaudible]. Lena Hitchcock: Oh, my dear. Then you'll have to do them up. Well I do have to do 'em up sooner or later. Geneva Wiskemann: That’s like your friend saying I didn’t come dressed to work in the kitchen. Jane Piatt: I had a – I have a Korean woman [inaudible 1:27:39] who – she is married to an American man. I mean he is not Korean, and they have a cottage next door to us. [Inaudible 1:27:46]. Geneva Wiskemann: Eh, yeah, eh… Jane Piatt: And, um, she, uh, she – they bought the cottage when, uh, uh, I was in the service in, eh, back in 1942 or 3, and my father and mother were there, and were – she was very fond of my mother and father, and they always called them Dad and Mother Piatt. I just found out recently they they're – that she is only about 4 or 5 years older than I, and I always think of her being much older than that, but she is not. Anyhow, uh, [chuckle] after my mother died, my father remarried, and she didn’t like his second wife as did – as I did too, didn’t like her. Anyhow, they ask the, uh, Grace went over for dinner, and after dinner, [Sarah 1:28:34] said, come on Grace, we'll do the dishes, and Grace just sat right there [laughter] and her very – always wore very bright colors being Korean, and she said, um, [Sarah 1:28:45], when I go to someone’s house and I'm invited as a guest, I don’t dress to do the dishes. [laughter] Of course, she was brought up to, uh, Korean style and very much a lady. Her father was to North Korea what, um, what, um, Henry Ford would have been to the Detroit area, and he was very American in his thinking, and they had a beautiful home that he had built. It looked like an American apartment. But he thought that looked like an American house, and he had American plumbing in it. And he wanted… Interviewer: [Inaudible 1:29:22]. Jane Piatt: …American medical service for his family, but his mother, h-, her mother was very, very Korean from an old family, and she didn’t approve of all this American medicine. She wanted the home medicines of the Korean families. Uh, when Grace grew up and became a doctor herself and went back to visit, she found out that many of the old medicines that her mother had practiced with their family were things that we're now using. Interviewer: I'll bet they were. Jane Piatt: That’s right. And so she used [them 1:29:55] because she, she, uh, got the first PhD at University of Michigan in nutrition, you know, uh, most medical [men 1:30:06] say… Interviewer: Mm-hm. Jane Piatt: …the heck with nutrition. They – you know eat a good meal, but they don’t know what a good meal really is or what good foods are. But Grace is very fussy about it. But – and she was so funny. W-, we were talking [this noon 1:30:18] about manners, and I was saying that when I went to college, even in the dormitory, you, uh, were assigned a table, and you sat at that table, and you had, uh, a person, an older person who – and I never was – I guess I, I was only there, eh, at the, um, in the dormitory I think, uh, 2 terms, and I can't remember how those people were appointed, but I guess they were what they would have called se-, uh, inst-, senior, senior advisors, and they were kids going through – working their way through college, the juniors and seniors probably, and, uh, I remember this [Alda Berg] [inaudible 1:30:55] one that was at my table, and we dressed for dinner. I mean you didn’t come to dinner in your, in the clothes that you’d been in school all day in, and you… Lena Hitchcock: [Inaudible 1:31:07]. Jane Piatt: …you went and w-, you marched in when it was time to go into the dining room and you stayed at the table until you were excused, and they watched your table manners. Any girl… Lena Hitchcock: [Inaudible 1:31:18]. Jane Piatt: …any girl that was not using good table manners was reprimanded, and even in the sorority house. When I moved in to the sorority house and our, our, uh, sorority mother, housemother, we were very – we – when we walked in, into the dining room in the morning and at night and in the morning and at noon, you spoke to her before you took your seat. Now, of course, they don’t do [inaudible 1:31:40]. They don’t know what manners are [inaudible 1:31:42]. Jane Piatt: No. Interviewer: Some young people [inaudible 1:31:45]. Interviewer: But some of them are awfully nice. Lena Hitchcock: [Inaudible 1:31:47]. Jane Piatt: Yes, they are. Some of them don’t have all the formalities, but they are sweet. Geneva Wiskemann: They are sweet. Interviewer: [That 1:31:53] they are. Jane Piatt: We… Lena Hitchcock: They're all my friends now. Jane Piatt: Sure they are. Lena Hitchcock: Girls your ages and younger, and I don’t know what I'd do without them because my old, old friends are all gone. Jane Piatt: That’s right. Lena Hitchcock: I have one left. And she doesn’t live in Washington. But these younger friends of mine are grand except one or two… Jane Piatt: We have a crowd we belong to, and every once in a while, I'll say, you know, I'm so fortunate that you let me be in your crowd, and they all say what do you mean let us be, if it weren’t for you, we wouldn't have even had a crowd. Lena Hitchcock: Well that’s practically [inaudible 1:32:32]. [coughing] Jane Piatt: Yeah. But they, they wait on me and do things for me that embarrass me because I can do them perfectly well. You know I can get up now… Interviewer: [Yeah 1:32:43]. Jane Piatt: …I can get into my chair and out of my chair without any help. [laughter] But the [inaudible 1:32:48]. Lena Hitchcock: Well I confess. I have a hard time sometimes getting out of my chair. Jane Piatt: Well I do too because I, I have to push myself up. I don’t – I can't get out like I used to. Lena Hitchcock: Oh, nonsense. Surely [inaudible 1:33:01]. Jane Piatt: But I had, I had hip surgery a year ago and I had foot surgery… Lena Hitchcock: Oh, well that [inaudible 1:33:04]. Jane Piatt: …so I don’t… Lena Hitchcock: [Inaudible 1:33:05] your age [inaudible 1:33:07]. Jane Piatt: I'm, I'm, uh, I have, I'm, you know, I don’t have anything wrong with me really. We must go. Geneva Wiskemann: Yes, we must. Jane Piatt: Let, let Lena hear a little of that. Geneva Wiskemann: Thank you so much. We really enjoyed this. /lo