Interview of retired Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Therese M. Slone-Baker on her military career Ruth Stewart: Therese M. Slone-Baker is being interviewed on January 14, 2004, as a member of the Women’s Overseas Service League, San Antonio Unit. The interview is being held at the Army Residence Community in San Antonio, Texas. The interviewer is Ruth Stewart, assisted by Carol Habgood. [0:29] Terry, start out by telling us a little bit about your early days. Therese Slone-Baker: My early days, well, I was born in New York City, New York, of immigrant parents. My father came from Poland and my mother from Ukraine, okay. I, uh, I grew up in a completely ethnic background where everybody spoke Ukrainian. Um, my parents were poor. They were uneducated, but they were hard-working people. Uh, my mother, unfortunately, had an unhappy marriage, so I did not know my father too well. Um, my mother is the one who took care of me and, uh, saw me through life, okay. The – um, in my growing up days as I said, I was living in a completely ethnic background and had seen that as I grew older I decided I did not wish to live in that type of background and I also felt that I needed security for myself, personal, uh, financial security. So as I finished school, I decided to break away from most of the jobs that my girlfriends of similar background were doing, and that was – and nothing wrong with their jobs, but they were things like waitressing and things of that nature. And I didn’t feel that, that was my type of thing anyway, so I went to a business school and learned how to be a typist and a stenographer. Um, I did not finish my course there because then they, they put me through accounting and I just don’t like anything to do with accounting. [chuckle] However, my, my training in, in stenography and typing led to some pretty good jobs that I, that took me out of the element I wished to become, to get out of that element. Um, I worked civil service at the – on December 7, 1941, I was working in Washington D.C. I was the secretary to the actuarial consultant for the Security, Social Security Administration, okay. Then, of course, Pearl Harbor Day came and I felt that I had to do something other than work for Social Security, so I looked around and I found a vacancy with the United States Maritime Commission in Wilmington, California. And I applied for the job and I was accepted and I transferred to California, working for the U.S. Maritime Commission. I had a great job. I worked for 95 inspectors, all male. And I have to admit that they spoiled me [chuckle] quite a bit. Ruth Stewart: Nothing wrong with that. Therese Slone-Baker: But even though I was working for a defense industry, I still felt with the war going on that I had to do something else, I had to do something for the war effort; however, my bosses at that time, uh, would not release me because I was working for a defense industry. And I could have left them, but then I was afraid that I would break my security end of it if I just left and it would probably show up on my records and that wouldn’t be a good idea, so I, I bided my time. And then in early – in late 1944 when the war, when the war was sort of winding down a little bit, my boss said to me that if I still wanted to go into the service that they would release me. So I checked around and the army was looking, still at that point recruiting people and they – I was enlisted. I went and enlisted in 19, um, it was the latter part of 1944, and I was called to active duty in January of ’45 and I was assigned to the army air corps. There was not an air force at that time, right? [chuckle] Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Therese Slone-Baker: Uh, and, and my experience – by that time I had been working for almost 10 years, so I had a good deal of experience in office management, uh, in secretarial work and all. And consequently, most of my assignments at, at that, at that time were, were very good assignments for a young, for a person who had not had military experience before. As a matter of fact, my first assignment was at Camp Davis in Wilmington, North Carolina, which was identified as a rest and rehabilitation center and I was assigned to the special services as, um, as a clerk typist. And the chief of that section learned of my background so he sent them a letter, a, a waiver requesting that I be assigned as a stenographer skilled 213. Well, [chuckle] the base commander approved all of those requests for waivers and things of that nature. At that time, I was just a private, above private. And when he saw my application for a waiver of skill, he decided he could use me as a secretary, so I was assigned as a secretary to the commanding general at, at the, at the station. And that seemed to be the trend of things as I went along because after that when the Camp Davis was closed down, I was sent to Indiantown Gap, Pennsylvania, and there the chief of personnel decided I was going to be his secretary. And then when Indiantown Gap, Pennsylvania closed down, it was a separation center at the time, when, when that closed down for another mission, the director of personnel – they were sending all the WAC to Fort Meade, Maryland. And the director of personnel felt I should not go with all the WAC at Fort Meade, Maryland, so he found an assignment to me, for me at, um, in Baltimore, Maryland with Headquarters Second Army Recruiting. And there I had my first experience of being a boss so to speak and my job was in the special events section. I worked with radio personalities, with news media, and establishing special events for the Second Army Recruiting. Um, and even though the war effort had w-, wound down quite a bit, they were still recruiting people and I came up with this idea of a special recruiting program involving the American Legion, and I called it the VALAR program, Voluntary American Legion Army Recruiting. And we enlisted over 100 men [chuckle] for which I received the Army Commendation Medal because we were the only organiza-, the only army recruiting district that had enlisted that many people at one time. At that time, this was, by now that was 1946, 1946, um, my mother was living in Long Beach, California by herself. I felt that the war was over, that I had to go back and to where, back to civilian status and help my mom because she was working and living alone and I was brought up with the, uh, with the, um, knowledge or, or… Ruth Stewart: Value. Therese Slone-Baker: …that, yes, that the children take care, care of the parents so I had to, I felt I had to go back and help my mom. So I went back into civil service. This time I, I, I found a job with the, uh, the air force was [inaudible 11:44] by that time, um, at an air force reserve training center where I started off as a, a secretary to the public relations man, but then the base commander found me and he decided I had to be his personal secretary. [chuckle] Ruth Stewart: But you were a civilian then. Therese Slone-Baker: I was a civilian at the time, yeah. And while I was in that civilian status, I joined the air force reserve. In 1951 and ’52, there was, um, a, a regulation came out saying former top 3 graders if they qualified on the ACOC exam (the Aviation Cadet/Officer Cadet exam) would be given a direct appointment. So my bosses prevailed upon me to try that, to apply for that, um, program and I did. I passed and I was recalled to active duty as a second lieutenant and that began my career as a commissioned officer with the air force. Um, in the air force, I had many assignments. I was personnel officer. I was an administrative officer. I was a commanding officer of the WAC squadrons of 2F squadrons. I was a training officer, I was a public relations officer, and I was a recruiter. Um, the, um, my air force career, or my entire military career really, was not a dramatic one, but it was – I felt I was doing something that needed to be done, otherwise I wouldn’t have had so many opportunities given to me… Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Therese Slone-Baker: …to, to carry out what I wanted. And I stayed on active duty for 20 years. I had 5 years in the reserve during my civilian time, so I retired as a lieutenant colonel with 25 years of service for pay purposes, so I had my security that I had planned for all my lifetime. Uh, I, I couldn’t have done any of this without having been in the service. I really feel that military service for me actually was what got me out of my beginnings of being an immigrant daughter. And there’s nothing wrong with being an immigrant’s daughter, except it was not my way of life. Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm, mm-hm. Therese Slone-Baker: Okay. Now is there anything else you need to know about me? When I retired, I received the, uh, Air Force Commendation Medal and Meritorious Service Medal upon retirement. Um, all my assignments were good assignments, although there were times when I ran into discrimination being a woman, okay. Uh, one of my assignments was to, um, be the executive officer for a base commander in Bermuda; however, the colonel in charge of the base, the base commander at the time, had never had a woman on his staff and evidently he was not going to give me that assignment. As a matter of fact, he had me unassigned for about 2 months while he made up his mind what to do with me. Um, he finally called me in one day and he said – I was captain at the time. He said “Captain,” he said “I understand that you had personnel background.” I said “Yes.” He said “Well, how would you like to be a personnel officer rather than the base executive officer?” So I looked at him and I thought, well, for one thing, the personnel office was way on the other side of the base. [chuckle] And I thought, well, I think I would like to be a personnel officer because personnel is so varied. Um, there are so many different types of duties involved that to me it sounded more interesting than just sitting at a desk and signing off on pieces of paper, so I agreed to do that. So what he did is he took the personnel officer, made him the base exec officer, and made me the personnel officer. And it really worked to my advantage, even though I was a little upset at the time. But it really worked to my advantage because, um, I was the only woman on base, woman officer rather, uh, uh, non-medic, because we did have a small hospital there, and, uh, the, um, the base used to use me [chuckle] for various, uh, community activities. I was a speaker. I spoke to the various organizations on Bermuda. I met many fine people, Bermudians, as personnel officer. One of my subsidiary duties was schools officer, so consequently I became involved with the school system in Bermuda. It, as I say, it worked to my advantage. And then one day I remember I was at base headquarters and the colonel – we had a visitor from TAC. We were a TAC organization. And the general was with the base commander in the hallway and as I walked by I just, I just said “Good morning, sirs.” And the colonel, the base commander called me back and I thought, oh-oh, did I do something wrong? And I, I went back and he said “I’d like…” He said to the general who was visiting, he said “I’d like you to meet my personnel officer. It’s the first time I’ve had a woman on staff and now I wonder why I didn’t before.” Ruth Stewart: Great. Therese Slone-Baker: So I felt I had accomplished something...[chuckle] Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Therese Slone-Baker: …for women in the service at that time. Ruth Stewart: [19:10] Did he tell you originally that he did not want you as the base executive officer, was that the title, because you were a woman or? Therese Slone-Baker: No, no. Ruth Stewart: You had to surmise that. Therese Slone-Baker: I surmised that, yeah, mm-hm. Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Therese Slone-Baker: Because otherwise why would he keep me unassigned when that spot was vacant there…? Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Therese Slone-Baker: …as the base exec? Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Therese Slone-Baker: But as I say, it worked to my advantage. Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Therese Slone-Baker: It really… Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Therese Slone-Baker: Um, I didn’t make a big hoo-ha about it. I know some women may have felt that th-, that the discrimination was such that they had to fight against it, but I, I never did that. I, I found that if I just did the best I can, whatever I’m doing, that things would work out okay for me. Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Therese Slone-Baker: And they did. Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Therese Slone-Baker: So, um, I’m, I’m very proud of my air force career. Ruth Stewart: [20:09] Where were you overseas? Therese Slone-Baker: I, I was in Germany twice during the Army of the Occupation and I was in Bermuda. Ruth Stewart: [20:24] The Occupation would be post World War II? Therese Slone-Baker: Yeah. Ruth Stewart: The Army of Occupation. Therese Slone-Baker: Yeah, the Army of Occupation in Germany. Yeah, mm-hm. Ruth Stewart: [20:38] And that was following the Bermuda experience? Therese Slone-Baker: No. Ruth Stewart: No, that would have been earlier. Therese Slone-Baker: Bermuda was my last overseas tour. Yeah. No, that was during, um, World War I – World War II, pardon me. [chuckle] Ruth Stewart: Yeah, let’s not get that on the record. [chuckle] Therese Slone-Baker: Um, that was during – the Occupation was in the early 50s and that’s when I was in Germany, mm-hm. Ruth Stewart: [21:05] And what were you doing there then? Therese Slone-Baker: I was an administrative officer with ACS communications. I was WAC commander at Ramstein Air Base. And I guess that was it, communications, yeah, mm-hm. Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Therese Slone-Baker: So those were more administrative type, uh, type things. Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. [21:36] Did you live on base or were you in the economy then? Therese Slone-Baker: Um, I, I lived on the economy for a while. My mother, who was my dependent, um, was permitted to – as an officer, uh, she was permitted to join me, so she joined me. And it was pretty interesting because here she was, a woman who had been born in Europe, and now living in even, and, and living in Europe in Germany, of course, at the time. But my mother was a very patriotic woman, and I credit her a lot with my feel-, strong feelings for wanting to do something other than, um, being a, just a plain worker. I remember when I was a little girl, the church was having Ukrainian classes. The priests were having Ukrainian classes and I said to my mom "I’d like to go to take that Ukrainian class.” And she would not permit me to go because she said she did not come to America for me to learn Ukrainian. She came to America to be an American. Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Therese Slone-Baker: So she – I think she fostered a lot of that strong feeling I have about being in the service, mm-hm. Ruth Stewart: [23:15] And she had learned English. Therese Slone-Baker: Oh yes. She was self-taught. Um, she learned to write. Of course, her writing was phonetic. Uh, if she was saying, she would write me a letter, she’d say “I am riding a fu words.” And she’d say “riding” r-i-d-i-n-g. Ruth Stewart: Hm. Therese Slone-Baker: And “fu” f-u. [chuckle] Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Therese Slone-Baker: A “fu” words. Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Therese Slone-Baker: And I remembered that when I was in basic training at Fort Des Moines, Iowa during World War II that whenever I received a letter from my mother, all the women would gather around me because they wanted to…[chuckle] Ruth Stewart: Hm. Therese Slone-Baker: …hear, hear her, hear her letter. Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm, mm-hm, mm-hm. Therese Slone-Baker: Yeah. And that in essence is all I have to offer to the oral history program, just my own personal experience, mm-hm. Ruth Stewart: That’s exactly what it’s all about though, it’s your and other individuals’ individual history. Therese Slone-Baker: Yeah, mm-hm. Ruth Stewart: Did being in the – the military gave you security, as you pointed out. Therese Slone-Baker: Mm-hm. Ruth Stewart: Although there were opportunities that you took advantage of. Therese Slone-Baker: Yeah. Ruth Stewart: [24:31] Um, did it change you in any way? Therese Slone-Baker: Oh, I think so. I, I think it made me a more independent and responsible individual. Um, I, I exerted my-, myself more be-, because when I, when I was a younger person, I was very, um, uh, withdrawn. Everybody thought I was very, very shy. In fact, when I decided to go into service, the people who knew me all my life were sure I would never, ever make it through, but I fooled them. [chuckle] Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm, mm-hm. Therese Slone-Baker: Yeah. Ruth Stewart: [25:26] Did being in the military affect your views of military as such or war? Therese Slone-Baker: Um, I’m trying to think that out. Um, I think being in the service, uh, affected the way I felt about military women. And my, uh, feeling for being a military woman was that as a military woman I had to represent the best that I could be, okay, that I would never do anything in the service that would degrade women in the service. Um, that I would – when I was WAC commander, I made sure that my young women in my squadron were always dressed properly. In fact, they used to call me Tidy Terry behind my back. Whenever I did an inspection of the barracks, I’d leave little notes all around saying “Your room is not tidy. Your bed is not tidy.” [laughter] So when I left the squadron, they had a farewell party for me and someone had written a poem called To Tidy Terry. [chuckle] Ruth Stewart: That’s funny. Therese Slone-Baker: And the same was true when I was on recruiting duty. I was the last election officer for the air force and we could at that time take only 200 wo-, women. We could only accept 200 women a month. And, of course, I would review all the applications and I was the one who would, who would say whether a young lady would come into the service or not. Uh, I, I had very high standards for the women applying for entry into the air force and the recruiters called me Old Iron Girdle. [chuckle] Ruth Stewart: Hm. Therese Slone-Baker: I, I would write… Ruth Stewart: Too rigid for them. Therese Slone-Baker: Yeah. Um, I would, um, I used a red pencil on the application forms when I saw something that was to me should have alerted the recruiter that she may or may, that she may not be a, a, a good applicant. And I was told by the recruiters that whenever they received an application returned to them, they knew it was a non-selection and they would sort of flip through, looking for the red marks. [chuckle] Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Therese Slone-Baker: But I, I enjoyed recruiting duty. It was, it also brought me out. It gave me more confidence in myself because as with recruiting service I had to speak to groups of college women. I had to travel around all over. Uh, I had to be interviewed. I had to speak to recruiters about the recruiting of young women. And I – it made a different person out of me. The entire experience made a different person of me. I sometimes think if I hadn’t gone into the service I probably would still be living in New York City in an ethnic area, uh, and doing work that would not have, have brought me the security that I was looking for. Ruth Stewart: Or satisfaction. Therese Slone-Baker: Yes, mm-hm. Ruth Stewart: Mm-hm. Therese Slone-Baker: Mm-hm, yeah. Ruth Stewart: [29:28] Besides WOSL, have you joined other military organizations or veterans’ organizations since you…? Therese Slone-Baker: Yeah. I, I’m a member of the Retired Officers Association, the Military Order of the World Wars (MOWW), the American Legion. Of course, Women’s Overseas Service League. Um, I’m also a member of Freedoms Foundation at Valley Forge, and I joined that organization simply because I felt that it was a, an organization that sponsored good things for America. They have a youth program, a youth leadership program, which I have enjoyed working with young people, selecting them to attend a leadership conference. That has been very satisfying. That’s about it. Ruth Stewart: So you’ve continued to contribute in, in many ways throughout. Therese Slone-Baker: I, I suppose. Ruth Stewart: Yeah. Therese Slone-Baker: Yeah. Ruth Stewart: Yes. Therese Slone-Baker: Uh-huh. Ruth Stewart: Well, you’ve had a notable career, Terry, and we really appreciate getting this down on this tape and, and… Therese Slone-Baker: Well, as I say… Ruth Stewart: …the various records. Therese Slone-Baker: As I say, I didn’t do anything dramatic, but I, I, I did what I felt was necessary. And evidently the service, the air force felt that I could contribute something in, in, in my own way. Ruth Stewart: And you obviously did. And thank you very much. /mlc