Interview of Grace Van Wert on her service as a school teacher in post-war Germany from September 1946 to August 1947 Elsie Hornbacher: This is Elsie Hornbacher interviewing Grace Van Wert who lives at 3333 Morris River Drive, Apartment 704, Lansing, Michigan, 48910. Her telephone number with the area code listed first is 517-482-3773. This is August 6, 1984. Grace may be located at this telephone or at this address. Um, this recording is being made for the Lansing Unit of the Women’s Overseas Service League. Grace Van Wert: I heard about the vacant, eh, I heard about jobs in Germany, uh, in the summer of 1946 through a friend of mine in Ann Arbor. I was teaching summer school in Lansing. I had Mexican children who were – whose f-, parents worked in the fields. I went down to Ann Arbor. I had – did not have time to get any, um, r-, recommendations, so the, uh, Mr. [Myring 1:15], Richard [Myring 1:16], who was hiring teachers, said that he was interested in my application but would need some recommendations. So I stepped outside. He called my superintendent, my principal, and princ-, and some superintendents I'd had other places, and they immediately called back, and I was hired that day. Elsie Hornbacher: My goodness [inaudible 1:35]. Uh, back in the days when I went, uh, I think I started proceedings in March and, uh, knew by June. Grace Van Wert: Well this – of course this idea of hiring people was sort of a spur-of-the-moment deal, so that they, uh, didn’t have too much time to advertise ahead. Uh, 110 teachers left New York on September 20th for Germany. We were… Elsie Hornbacher: [2:06] Grace, uh, when you went, uh, did you know anyone else going? Grace Van Wert: Yeah, I knew th-, 2 people. Elsie Hornbacher: [2:13] From Michigan? Grace Van Wert: Yes, mm-hm. Elsie Hornbacher: Oh. [2:15] Then you did, uh, get together with [inaudible 2:17]? Grace Van Wert: And then, uh, in New York, we met several others. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Grace Van Wert: And, uh, I think there were 13 of us from Michigan, so we got, we got to know one another quite well in New York. We were held up 10 days in New York before we sailed because, uh, we were supposed to go over on the General Alexander, but the General Alexander had hit a mine on its way back from Germany, so we were held up, uh, until we could get on the General Richardson. Elsie Hornbacher: [2:44] Another ship? Grace Van Wert: Yes. Elsie Hornbacher: [2:46] Was it a nice ship, Grace? Grace Van Wert: Yes, mm-hm, it was. It was an army ship. You – we wore, uh, our, uh, Mae West l-, the life preservers all the time. We were not even supposed to go outside of our cabin without those life preservers with us every minute because the boat was liable to make, uh, to hit a mine. The… Elsie Hornbacher: Oh, [inaudible 3:08]? Grace Van Wert: …they were not all of the water yet. Yes. We were always ready. We had boat drill often on the ship so we knew just which boat we would go to from the station w-, where we happened to be at – if we had – did hit a mine. Elsie Hornbacher: [3:23] Was the ocean rough? Grace Van Wert: Part the time it was, but most of it – the trip over was nice. Elsie Hornbacher: [3:28] You didn’t get seasick? Grace Van Wert: Uh, not going over. I did coming back because I was on a smaller ship coming back… Elsie Hornbacher: [3:34] Oh, the… Grace Van Wert: …and the sear was rough. Elsie Hornbacher: …Richardson was big enough that… Grace Van Wert: Yes. Elsie Hornbacher: …uh… Grace Van Wert: Mm-hm. Elsie Hornbacher: …you avoided seasickness? Grace Van Wert: Yes. Elsie Hornbacher: And I found the same thing to be true going over to, uh, uh, Europe in a smaller ship. I was – I didn’t throw up, but, uh, I was, uh, kind of… Grace Van Wert: Mm-hm. Elsie Hornbacher: …you know… Grace Van Wert: Mm-hm. Elsie Hornbacher: …under the weather. Grace Van Wert: We, uh, landed in, uh, Bremerhaven where we stayed all night the first night, and then the next day, we took a train to Frankfurt, Germany. The – we rode in a train that had slat seats, so it was quite an uncomfortable ride all the way. Our, uh, first meeting was at Frankfurt. Uh, then we went to, uh, Bremerhaven, uh, no, um, oh... We went to Bad Nauheim where we had our – a week of meetings, and we received our assignments, and then after that, we took a trip on the, um, Rhine River in Hitler’s private yacht, which the army had confiscated. There were many 1-room schools that first year, and they asked for people to volunteer to take the 1-room schools as there, there were, uh, not enough American families in the – in Germany yet to have more than 1 teacher at many of the locations. I, uh, volunteered to take a r-, a 1-room school. I was at the – connected with the Fritzlar Air Base, and the school was, uh, located at Bad, uh, Wildungen because Fritzlar was b-, badly bombed. Elsie Hornbacher: [5:22] What's the big city near th-, that place? Grace Van Wert: Um, Bad Wildungen is 100 miles north of Frankfurt and 25 miles south of Kassel. Elsie Hornbacher: [5:32] Kassel, in that area, the northern Germany wasn’t it? Grace Van Wert: In the foothills of the Harz Mountains. It was a lovely place, beautiful place. But… Elsie Hornbacher: [5:40] Uh, what is the province, German province? Do you know it? Grace Van Wert: Hesse. Elsie Hornbacher: Hesse. [5:44] Oh, you were in Hesse? Grace Van Wert: Mm-hm. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Grace Van Wert: The, uh, Town of Bad Wildungen had 6,000, uh, permanent residents before the war. After the war, there were around 12,000 there, which included, uh, people from other places that [inaudible 6:02] badly bombed and Americans. It was a health resort town. There were 12 fairly large hotels and, uh, 18 small hotels at that time. I stayed at a hotel, which was the Army, uh, Officers Club. Elsie Hornbacher: I understand German teacin-, teachers even today can go to a health resort for a week because they need, uh, rest and recuperation [chuckle] from their work. Grace Van Wert: [chuckle] I often wondered if the people really got much help. It was supposed – the water at the – at this, um, health resort was supposed to be good for kidney problems. Elsie Hornbacher: I see. Grace Van Wert: Uh, I – a aide who worked with me teaching, uh, German to my children, uh, his father was a doctor in Berlin. He had died during the bombing of Berlin. And she was left with nothing and had to get out and make her own way any way she could. She, uh, I asked her one time if she, uh, her father thought that, uh, the, uh, water at the health resorts helped the patients, and she said well, not, uh, really, but she – he thought the rest did them a lot of good. Elsie Hornbacher: [laughter] Grace Van Wert: When school first started, on the first day, I had 4 children, but I got more later. They gradually came in, and before the year was over, I had children in all grades from 1 through 7, so it was just like a country school. Elsie Hornbacher: [7:45] Was it, um, uh, were these children, uh, children of, uh, enlisted men or, uh, officers or both? Grace Van Wert: They were both, enlisted and officers’ children. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Grace Van Wert: Also I had 1 family whose parents were connected with the Red Cross. Elsie Hornbacher: I see. Grace Van Wert: They were fine children. I had no problems with any of them. It was just an ideal classroom. We a-, were quite limited at the beginning in books and other materials. I had taken art materials and paper and pencil and a lot of things that I knew I would need, and if I didn’t get them right away, I would be prepared with a little. And, uh, we gradually got more things. Eh, of course, all the books were new but – and the children scrounged around and got some things, too, that they brought in from as they visited, um, other areas. Elsie Hornbacher: [8:42] Then you had to set up a whole new school, didn’t you, Grace? Grace Van Wert: Yes. Elsie Hornbacher: [8:46] And you were a part in making the school weren't you? Grace Van Wert: That’s right. It was the first year we had this. Elsie Hornbacher: [8:50] [Inaudible 8:50] the first school? Grace Van Wert: The first year we had the schools over there. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Grace Van Wert: And, as I say, there were 110 of us that started the schools, and I think we had, um, 41 schools at the beginning, 41 locations. So you see there weren't many teachers in any one place. Elsie Hornbacher: I see. [9:07] W-, how many were there in this, uh, school you were in, just 1? Grace Van Wert: Just myself. Elsie Hornbacher: [9:11] Oh, you were there alone? Grace Van Wert: I was all alone. And when I was, uh, we were given our assignments, I asked, uh, Mr. M-, [Myron 9:18] or Mr. Virgil Walker, who had con-, had, um, control of all the schools, where Bad Wildungen was o-, located, and he said I don’t know, but they want a school, and you'll have to look on the map and then go down to the railway station and find out how to get there. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Grace Van Wert: Which I did. Elsie Hornbacher: [laughter] [9:38] Oh, you were really – you weren't taken care of at all? Grace Van Wert: Oh, no. We were… Elsie Hornbacher: Oh. Grace Van Wert: …we were just – it was just – we just had to s-, sort of look for ourselves. Elsie Hornbacher: [Inaudible 9:47]. Grace Van Wert: However, when I was, uh, got on the train to go – before I got on the train to go, word was sent to the headquarters, the Fritzlar Air Base, so someone met me with a Jeep at the, uh, railway station… Elsie Hornbacher: Oh. Grace Van Wert: …in, uh, Fritzlar and drove me over to Bad Wildungen and made arrangements for – had made arrangements for me to stay at the hotel. Elsie Hornbacher: [10:09] Oh, you stayed at the hotel? Grace Van Wert: Yes, the Officers Club. Elsie Hornbacher: Oh, d-, and that’s where I stayed in Naples too. [10:14] Uh, did you eat at the Officers Club? Grace Van Wert: Yes. Mm-hm. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. [10:17] And you had a room? Grace Van Wert: Twenty-five cents a meal. Elsie Hornbacher: [10:19] Twenty-five cents a meal back in 1946? Grace Van Wert: Wonderful food for 25 cents a meal. Elsie Hornbacher: [10:22] And I suppose you had music at night, didn’t you? Grace Van Wert: Yeah. Oh, yes. Elsie Hornbacher: [10:25] The or-, uh, German orchestra [inaudible 10:27]. Grace Van Wert: German orchestra. Elsie Hornbacher: Oh. Grace Van Wert: And the best bread I ever ate, that German bread. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. [Inaudible 10:34]. Grace Van Wert: Um, we had our headquarters, um, were or was at, uh, Frankfurt, but later on in the year, it was changed to, um, Bad-, uh, to Heidelberg, so that gave us a chance several times during the year to go down to Heidelberg for meetings, and Heidelberg, of course, is a very interesting place. Our – we taught the same things we teach here, except I had to teach, of course, all the music and art and, um, other – and regular subjects. The children were very good about helping one another, so that the older children could help the little ones just like a country school over here many years ago. During, um, vacations, we were lucky enough to be able to take trips different places. Christmastime I went to Italy and, uh, Switzerland. Elsie Hornbacher: [11:36] Who did you go with, Grace? Friends of yours? Grace Van Wert: Yes, I went with other teachers who were… Elsie Hornbacher: Oh. Grace Van Wert: …they were friends of mine. Elsie Hornbacher: [11:42] Did you have, uh, an opportunity to meet with teachers in the other, uh, towns? Grace Van Wert: Yes, we did. We used to visit one another in the towns… Elsie Hornbacher: Oh. Grace Van Wert: …different towns, and that way we could s-, visit the towns… Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Grace Van Wert: …and then sometimes we would change rooms. Uh, someone would come up and take my room, and I would go to some other place and take the room, and then that way we could have a place to stay and could visit the place [inaudible 12:05]. Elsie Hornbacher: [12:04] Oh, you didn’t have the resort hotels open to you yet at that time, did you? Grace Van Wert: Oh, uh, well of course, you n-, have no idea how, uh, poor people were there, and, um, we – they did have hotels that the army had taken over and so that we could get in to those. But, uh, Germany, of course, was very, very – people were very poor, and they were lim-, very limited in supplies, food supplies and so forth right after the war. Elsie Hornbacher: [12:34] Uh, they were hungry yet weren't they? Grace Van Wert: Oh, yes. Mm-hm. Elsie Hornbacher: [12:36] Were they warm? Grace Van Wert: Well a lot of places didn’t have heat. I was warm. I was always warm. But a lot of the Germans weren't. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Grace Van Wert: The, uh, I – a German lady who took of my room at the hotel had very, very little. I used to get soap at the PX, and she was so pleased when I would give her a cake of soap because her s-, her ration for – of soap was a small bar about the size of the larger bar that you find in hotels. I took German lessons from a college professor, and he wanted his pay in cigarettes because he could go out into the country and buy food from farmers while he couldn’t get it in the stores. He used – he smoked some of the cigarettes, but he take some of them out to buy food. Elsie Hornbacher: [13:26] D-, did you have PX privileges then? Grace Van Wert: Yes. But we were rationed on certain things. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Grace Van Wert: We could get 1, uh, carton of cigarettes a month, a week. Elsie Hornbacher: [13:35] A week? Grace Van Wert: And, uh, if we lived in the h-, h-, hotel as I did, we were not allowed any coffee. Elsie Hornbacher: [13:45] You mean you couldn’t drink it in the hotel? Grace Van Wert: You could drink it, but you were not allowed to buy any coffee at the PX. Elsie Hornbacher: Oh, I see. Grace Van Wert: That was limited. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Grace Van Wert: Many things were limited at that time. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Grace Van Wert: The first year after the war [inaudible 13:56]. Elsie Hornbacher: [13:57] Let's see, you went over what month? Uh, September, August? Grace Van Wert: Uh, September… Elsie Hornbacher: [14:00] Of, uh… Grace Van Wert: …1946. Elsie Hornbacher: …1946, and the war ended… Grace Van Wert: Ended in ’45. Elsie Hornbacher: …in ‘45, just a year before? Grace Van Wert: Mm-hm. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Austerity was still… Grace Van Wert: Oh, yes, and when we landed… Elsie Hornbacher: …[inaudible 14:12]. Grace Van Wert: …in Frankfurt, it – the town had been bombed so badly, and you s-, could still smell, uh… Elsie Hornbacher: [14:22] Bodies? Grace Van Wert: …bodies. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Frankfurt. Mm-hm. Grace Van Wert: On, uh, at, uh, spring vacation, we took a trip down in to the Bavarian Alps. We pl-, stayed, uh, at Garmisch part of the time and at other areas through there. Elsie Hornbacher: [14:45] Garmisch Partenkirchen? Grace Van Wert: Yes. Elsie Hornbacher: [14:47] That’s a ski resort, isn't it? Grace Van Wert: Yes. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Grace Van Wert: In the summer before I came home, I went to England. Also visited, um, France, Paris, and we'd c-, been to Paris another – one weekend earlier. Also went to Brussels and Holland. [Inaudible 15:11] Elsie Hornbacher: [15:12] Well what about the German people? Did you have any contact with them [inaudible 15:15]? Grace Van Wert: Uh, I did, yes. I'd had – I was – and visited one of the teachers at the high school quite a few times and, and, um, the first time I visited him, he, uh, wanted – said he would meet me at the hotel and we would go out to his place, and of course, he didn’t have any car or any way to get there. But he came down to pick me up, and, uh, we walked out to his place, which was 3 miles. Elsie Hornbacher: And that’s common for the Germans. Grace Van Wert: Yes. Elsie Hornbacher: They think nothing of walking… Grace Van Wert: No. Elsie Hornbacher: …6 miles. Grace Van Wert: And then he walked back with me, so he had – he walked 12 miles. Elsie Hornbacher: Ha-ha, quite a distance. Grace Van Wert: Yes, mm-hm. Elsie Hornbacher: [15:50] This is a German teacher? Grace Van Wert: Yes. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Grace Van Wert: He taught, um, the English language for one thing. Elsie Hornbacher: Oh. Grace Van Wert: And, uh, they – he taught, uh, Shakespeare materials, and he want-, he needed books, so when I came home, I bought a set of, uh, paperback books, uh, which included several Shakespearean plays that he was interested in teaching the children, so I sent those back to him. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. [16:23] Um, was fraternization frowned upon at that time? Grace Van Wert: No, I don’t think so. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Grace Van Wert: We didn’t do a lot, but, uh… Elsie Hornbacher: [16:32] It was totally up to you, wasn’t it? Grace Van Wert: It was up to you, yes. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Grace Van Wert: Mm-hm. [Inaudible 16:35] I found the Germans that I talked with and met friendly. Elsie Hornbacher: [16:41] Did you, uh, talk about the war at all with him? Grace Van Wert: I don’t think I ever did. No. Elsie Hornbacher: [16:46] You d-, you, uh… Grace Van Wert: I don’t remember that I did. Elsie Hornbacher: Uh-huh. [16:48] Do you don’t know whether he had any, uh, bitter – he mustn’t have had, uh… Grace Van Wert: I think… Elsie Hornbacher: …any bitter feelings toward Amer-, the United States? Grace Van Wert: I s-, I suppose some of them did. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Grace Van Wert: I don’t know how they could help it and we could help it either… Elsie Hornbacher: [17:00] Did you avoid the… Grace Van Wert: …but we did. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Grace Van Wert: Uh, different ones did tell me about families of – or members of families who were killed… Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Grace Van Wert: …during the war. Elsie Hornbacher: [17:10] By the American forces? Mm-hm. Grace Van Wert: Yes. Mm-hm. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. [17:15] You, you didn’t hear any stories of hardships particularly from them? They didn’t open up to this degree did, did they? Grace Van Wert: No. We – they didn’t talk too much. No. Elsie Hornbacher: Every German I talked to denied the fact that they knew about Dachau and, uh, Auschwitz and, uh, the, uh… Grace Van Wert: Mm-hm. Elsie Hornbacher: …places of that nature. Grace Van Wert: Oh, yes. Mm-hm. Elsie Hornbacher: [17:35] You didn’t get to Dachau? Grace Van Wert: I – no, we – I didn’t, eh, I don’t think we went into that too much, and of course, you were there later. Elsie Hornbacher: Yes. Grace Van Wert: So that might made a, make a difference in [socialism 17:43] after the war. Elsie Hornbacher: It wasn’t a day, it wasn’t a day I wanted to remember at all. Grace Van Wert: Mm-hm. No. Elsie Hornbacher: I came home and was sick to my stomach and couldn’t even eat. Grace Van Wert: Hm. I imagine. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Grace Van Wert: No, the people, people were poor. There's no question about it. They were poor when I was there. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. [18:00] They had shoes though, didn’t they? Grace Van Wert: Yes, mm-hm. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. [18:03] And, uh… Grace Van Wert: They had clothing. Elsie Hornbacher: …clothing… Grace Van Wert: And they had, and they… Elsie Hornbacher: …it was ragged, but they had clothing? Grace Van Wert: They had things, yes, but they didn’t have a lot. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. [18:12] Tell us about the town that, uh, and, uh. Grace Van Wert: The older part of the town in which I lived, Bad Wildungen, had, um, [coughing] many buildings around the old city square that were built back in 11 and 1200s. The church I attended was built in 1260 I believe it was. The pulpit was at, uh, at the top of a small flight of steps. I usually spent quite a bit of time on Saturdays, if I wasn’t out of town, um, just walking around the streets in the old part of town, watching the people, and going in and out of the stores. There wasn’t much in the stores, but it was fun to, uh, see the people and, uh, see the few handmade things that they had to sell. Elsie Hornbacher: Grace, you mentioned, um, the, um, church. [19:14] Uh, what denomination was it? Grace Van Wert: I think it – I, eh, I think it, um, was undenominational… Elsie Hornbacher: Oh. Grace Van Wert: …because I went to the, uh, service for Americans, which was, uh, conducted by, uh, our Chaplin. Elsie Hornbacher: Oh, I see. Grace Van Wert: But some of the Germans also came to the church at that time. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Oh, I see. Grace Van Wert: Mm-hm. Elsie Hornbacher: [19:37] Either were welcome? Grace Van Wert: Yes. Elsie Hornbacher: [19:38] The services were in English though, weren't they? Grace Van Wert: Yes. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Grace Van Wert: They were in e-, English and… Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. [19:41] And, uh, nondenominational? Grace Van Wert: …and anyone was – everyone was welcome. Elsie Hornbacher: Mm-hm. Grace Van Wert: One day when I went by one store window, I saw a painting of the, um, old town square. I knew at one that I wanted, uh, that painting, so I went into the store. The man who had painted it said it was his original, and he didn’t want to sell it, but he would make me 3, uh, a copy of it for 3 pounds of coffee. I didn’t know at that time where I could get coffee as I couldn’t buy it myself at the PX. However, when I went back to the hotel, one of the, uh, Red Cross girls told me that her mother was sending her some coffee and that, uh, she would, uh, write and have her send more, so that I would, uh, have some coffee, uh, to buy the picture. This was in the summer. I went on a trip to England, and when I came back I went down – took the 3 pounds of coffee and went down to the store to get my picture thinking it would be ready. It wasn’t, uh, finished, but, um, the man who painted it, a s-, um, was so anxious to get the coffee that he let me have his original. Uh, I couldn’t, uh, have waited for the other to be finished as we were leaving soon for the United States. So I was very glad to get the original. Elsie Hornbacher: [21:12] Grace, how long did you stay in Germany [inaudible 21:14]? Grace Van Wert: I was there 1 year. I had a leave of absence from the Lansing schools, so I returned at the end of a year. Elsie Hornbacher: [21:21] Uh, you thought about going to Japan, but, uh…? Grace Van Wert: Yes. And then I decided not to, and I often wish I had. Elsie Hornbacher: I see. Well thank you, Grace. /lo